Re: [ql-users] What printers do people use with their QL??
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify us immediately at [EMAIL PROTECTED] and delete this E-mail from your system. Thank you. It is possible for data transmitted by email to be deliberately or accidentally corrupted or intercepted. For this reason, where the communication is by email, the Bank of Ireland Group does not accept any responsibility for any breach of confidence which may arise through the use of this medium. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of known computer viruses. I have done this several times when stuck for a cartridge and need to do some printing - I've often have a cheap inkjet for sale in the web centre I own, and just opened it and used it rather than go hunting for a cartridge for my decent printer. It is amazing, but true. My brother in law (to be) is a senior figure in Lexmark Ireland - he says Lexmark have a warehouse full of broken returned cheap inkjets that they allow to fill up to capacity, then container them over to malaysia or similar to be destroyed or in some cases repaired as it cheaper to do that (obviously in some sweatshop) that over here. Inbelieveable. cheers, Darren Branagh, Bank of Ireland - Cards And Loans Business, Nassau House, 33/35 Nassau Street, Dublin 2. Ireland. Tel: 1850-530-530 Fax: 01-6706813. BOI Group Data Classification - Phoebus R. Dokos ( . To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ql-users] What printers do people use with r.net their QL?? Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] g.uk 12/10/2003 21:09 Please respond to ql-users On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 20:14:21 +0100, Tony Firshman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 at 10:38:12, Roy wood wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) snip Indeed yes. I find it incredible that on some cheap colour inkjets, if you want to use the manufacturers products, it is often cheaper to buy a new printer (with packaged cartridges) True and I do it all the time on eBay ;-) When it's time to change cartidges I sell the printer instead. BTW: Nowadays most inkjets come with starter cartridges that last less than the regular ones you can buy later as consumables. Phoebus -- Visit the QL-FAQ at: http://www.dokos-gr.net/ql/faq/ (Still uploading stuff!) Visit the uQLX-win32 homepage at: http://www.dokos-gr.net/ql/uqlx.html Visit the uQLX-mac home page at:http://www.dokos-gr.net/ql/uqlxmac.html
Re: [ql-users] Bugs
Jerome Grimbert wrote: Is there any uptodate Web page listing the know/resolved bugs with version (sort of changes.txt, with pending bugs listed as extra). Normally http://www.kilgus.net/qpc/versionssms.html should be up-to-date (though due to some special circumstances this time it isn't yet. This is also why I haven't yet made any announcement of the new version). There isn't any pending-bug list yet. I was thinking about doing a specialised SMSQ/E page for my site that might include one, but haven't yet done this. I was trying to use iop_wblb with a pattern of 1x1 in mode GD2 24 bits, with a mask of 6x6 in mode GD2 24 bits and I get a bad behaviour... or rather nothing! Hm, OK. Just curious, what about alternatively doing a block draw operation? After experiments, It looks like it's better for the pattern to be at least 8x, which is rather cumbersome in my case. (I did not found yet the mimimal y to get that working too in vertical, more experiments needed I believe) Is-this bug known already ? Solved ? No and no. There weren't any changes in the Q40 screen driver (only some changes in SGC code to accommodate Aurora high colour). Apart from that some fixes in memory management, WM_BLOCK, PRT_USE$, PARNAM$, PARSTR$, IOB.EDLIN, and Q40 SER driver. Plus the new stuffer buffer key for IOB.EDLIN. But that was it, I think. Marcel
Re: [ql-users] Bugs
Marcel Kilgus makes some magical things to make me read } } Jerome Grimbert wrote: } Is there any uptodate Web page listing the know/resolved bugs with version } (sort of changes.txt, with pending bugs listed as extra). } } Normally http://www.kilgus.net/qpc/versionssms.html should be } up-to-date (though due to some special circumstances this time it } isn't yet. This is also why I haven't yet made any announcement of the } new version). Ok-doky... bookmark taken. 3.01 so far only. (But thanks for the list of changes hereafter) } } There isn't any pending-bug list yet. I was thinking about doing a } specialised SMSQ/E page for my site that might include one, but } haven't yet done this. This might be a really good thing to have (avoiding people to repeat over and over Here,that does not work..., and providing 'enthousiast' programmers with a list of little tasks.) I think either Marcel or Wolfgang should be the only maintainers of such lists. } } I was trying to use iop_wblb with a pattern of 1x1 in mode GD2 24 } bits, with a mask of 6x6 in mode GD2 24 bits and I get a bad } behaviour... or rather nothing! } } Hm, OK. } Just curious, what about alternatively doing a block draw operation? I have not yet seen the block operation in C for 24 bits colours... (And then, I would need to find the trap number, and perform it myself... doable as a workaround if I was in hurry, but I'm not) } } After experiments, It looks like it's better for the pattern to be } at least 8x, which is rather cumbersome in my case. (I did not found } yet the mimimal y to get that working too in vertical, more } experiments needed I believe) } } Is-this bug known already ? Solved ? } } No and no. There weren't any changes in the Q40 screen driver (only } some changes in SGC code to accommodate Aurora high colour). Apart } from that some fixes in memory management, WM_BLOCK, PRT_USE$, } PARNAM$, PARSTR$, IOB.EDLIN, and Q40 SER driver. Plus the new stuffer } buffer key for IOB.EDLIN. But that was it, I think. } } Marcel Great :- Means I will have to enter debug/patch kernel mode before continuing the high-level application then! No problem, just not too much time...
Re: [ql-users] QLwIP, Ethernet, USB, Q60 successor
On 11 Oct 2003 at 23:17, Peter Graf wrote: (...) Q60 Successor: (...) After the departure of Tony Tebby, I see no basis for projects like this anymore, because there's no common ground with the new SMSQ/E maintainers, Well of course not, you never tried to find one. and at the same time no freedom to develop SMSQ/E under open source conditions. Oh rubbish. This lack of common ground seems to stem from the fact that you prefer to profit from developments made for other systems (eg. Marcel's new wman etc) and not chip in anything of your own. Wolfgang
Re: [ql-users] Bugs
On 13 Oct 2003 at 8:51, Jerome Grimbert wrote: Is there any uptodate Web page listing the know/resolved bugs with version (sort of changes.txt, with pending bugs listed as extra). No, not to my knowledge. I do keep a list of bugs that are sent to me/published here on the list. Yours will be added to the list. The changes-txt in the sources contains the changes that are made to the sources, including the bugfixes. Thanks to Marcel, I've discovered that there are some discrepancoes between his versions of SMSQ/E and mine, and we're currently trying to find out why/where etc... Once this is done, version 3.03 will come out officially. This is also the reason I haven't sent the sources out to 2 persons who have asked for them. (...) I was trying to use iop_wblb with a pattern of 1x1 in mode GD2 24 bits, with a mask of 6x6 in mode GD2 24 bits and I get a bad behaviour... or rather nothing! (Using a 1x1 24 bits pattern avoid me to define a sprite for each possible colour, just changing the pattern data which is only a long, thus it is a simple = operation, very quick!) After experiments, It looks like it's better for the pattern to be at least 8x, which is rather cumbersome in my case. (I did not found yet the mimimal y to get that working too in vertical, more experiments needed I believe) Is-this bug known already ? Solved ? No. Added to the list Wolfgang
Re: [ql-users] QLwIP, Ethernet, USB, Q60 successor
Fabrizio Diversi makes some magical things to make me read } Just a thought about what a pity,( I am now in the lunch break...) } one year later after sms/e sources new license, and for a lot of reason that I do not understand (!!) nothing was done on the Q40 side, not because missing of knowledge but for other reasons. Insert Troll-feeder here- which other reasons ? } The new license is not perfect (far ?) but usable, just for example, Wolfgang accepted without hesitation my changes to the sources to eliminate movep and believe me my changes was full of bug -)-). I seemed to remember that change... Using movep was a bad idea (it is one of the strangest instruction I have met so far: it make sense for a 68008, but should be limited to peripheral bus access) } I personally did a very few things with the sources , not because I am against the license, but simply because I do not have the the capacity. Most people have the capacity, they just lake a motivation and a small enough goal. (you cannot (re-)make a full OS in one go!) } Sadly this is the reality. } } Fabrizio , alias an abandoned Qx0 user -)-) } What are you missing ?
Re: [ql-users] Bugs
Jerome Grimbert wrote: I have not yet seen the block operation in C for 24 bits colours... http://www.itimpi.freeserve.co.uk/ql/gd2b.zip iow_blkt ( chanid_t channel, timeout_t timeout, GDSTP_t *, QLRECT_t *rect) Means I will have to enter debug/patch kernel mode before continuing the high-level application then! If you can supply me with a short enough demo code I might find some time to help. Marcel
Re: [ql-users] What printers do people use with their QL??
- Original Message - From: Marcel Kilgus [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ql-users] What printers do people use with their QL?? My solution regarding postscript would also very much solve the problem for Qxx. SGC is probably too slow or doesn't have enough memory to run Ghostscript. To add a little controversy to this discussion, because we must not shy away from it, should we start thinking the unthinkable and plan for QL native hardware obsolescence? Colour drivers already push the SGC to the limit and there would appear to be no long term native hardware solution for the printer problem. Realistically there are only two ways for the QL to develop. One is the QPC way and the other the Q60 way. I realise this is hard on the people who have a heavy investment in native hardware, but unless a new super SGC becomes a real possibility it is going to become harder and harder for native hardware to keep up with new developments. Geoff Wicks http://members.lycos.co.uk/geoffwicks/justwords.htm
Re: [ql-users] What printers do people use with their QL??
On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:56:26 +0100, gwicks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Marcel Kilgus [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ql-users] What printers do people use with their QL?? My solution regarding postscript would also very much solve the problem for Qxx. SGC is probably too slow or doesn't have enough memory to run Ghostscript. To add a little controversy to this discussion, because we must not shy away from it, should we start thinking the unthinkable and plan for QL native hardware obsolescence? Colour drivers already push the SGC to the limit and there would appear to be no long term native hardware solution for the printer problem. Realistically there are only two ways for the QL to develop. One is the QPC way and the other the Q60 way. I realise this is hard on the people who have a heavy investment in native hardware, but unless a new super SGC becomes a real possibility it is going to become harder and harder for native hardware to keep up with new developments. As I said that is NOT necessary. Cardbus based USB and Firewire hosts already exist and after a little research I can assure you that they would work on the Qx0. Obsolence is in the eye of the be(er)holder (just kidding on the spelling here ;-) As it stands now, it's not difficult -or unimaginable- even to implement a fully working QL in the size of a SIMM (the uC SIMM to be exact) and that little thing has everything AND the kitchen sink on it. (That includes IDE/LCD Controller/USB/Ethernet etc.). You see it's a matter of investment in time (and not necessarily money as for example with the uC Simm you need not to do ANY hardware development) and only that. As I argued many times before, emulation is a necessary evil for people that prefer to remain simple users or others that view the QL as a nice distraction in their PC computing or people that just do not have enough space in their house! That comment of course is not meant to downplay the achievements of the emulator authors or their immense contribution to systems' software in the past years (See for example Marcel's excellent multi-faceted work). It's a personal opinion and should be taken at face value. I mention however this to show that QL obsolence is only there because the users and developers stop caring (right or wrong I am not the one to judge) or couldn't afford to invest time and money in the situation or because they had other better things to do. Whatever the reason however, this is reversable and that's the simple fact. Using a QL for me is a lifestyle choice if you will... the reason why I will chose a VW over a Dodge even if they have exactly the same characteristics or use Free Software instead of commercial one. In the final analysis, it's the users' choice and it has to be respected in a way Phoebus -- Visit the QL-FAQ at: http://www.dokos-gr.net/ql/faq/ (Still uploading stuff!) Visit the uQLX-win32 homepage at: http://www.dokos-gr.net/ql/uqlx.html Visit the uQLX-mac home page at:http://www.dokos-gr.net/ql/uqlxmac.html
Re: [ql-users] QLwIP, Ethernet, USB, Q60 successor
On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:48:32 +0200 (MET DST), Jerome Grimbert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fabrizio Diversi makes some magical things to make me read } Just a thought about what a pity,( I am now in the lunch break...) } one year later after sms/e sources new license, and for a lot of reason that I do not understand (!!) nothing was done on the Q40 side, not because missing of knowledge but for other reasons. Insert Troll-feeder here- which other reasons ? Well I think that this whole discussion is an overkill. We did it before but it may be useful to see things a little more removed from the heat now :-) Many people (among these myself as I have many times stated here) do not believe that SMSQ/E's license is appropriate or really open. However how people's convictions affect their personal behaviours is their own choice. I choose to play ball in the SMSQ/E because I think QLing is fun and because I understand that although I do not like the license as it stands, it's in the final analysis the author's choice to do whatever the hell he likes with his software. Similarily if one chooses to abstain of all development in a software that he thinks that offends his personal convictions that's his choice too and should be respected. I do not think that disliking non Free software is a mortal sin and like the opposite position on the matter that too has to be respected. As revealed and by Geoff's long article publicised here a little while ago, rifts and factions are plaguing the QL community for a long time. We are at the same point now and in my opinion without any reason. Nobody is the same and in matters of principle humans can be in opposing ends of the spectrum (not ZX ;-) ) I do not think however that if we look beyond the last year's differences, we cannot find some common ground somewhere. Unfortunately the dispute everyone refers to and noone mentions by name (hehe among these you. -Ed.) escalated to more than difference of points of view and wherever things get heated logic common sense gets out the window. In any case and to stop beating around the bush, I believe that Peter (and every Peter... it could be me, Nasta, Tony, Geoff or whoever else -names drawn out of the hat randomly) has every right to develop or NOT whatever he wants. As you cannot tell a parent what language to teach his child, similarily you cannot tell an author or developer what software it has to run. For example, who are we to ask Marcel to stop using SMSQ/E in QPC and start using say... Minerva? It's not logical to do so; what is logical is put a kind request and see how he takes it. If he likes it fine if he doesn't we have to shut up and move on! To conclude my rambling, there are always two sides in a dispute. We like it or not everyone has made mistakes or overlooked something or in any case had some part in escalating the matter. It would be easy to dismiss any party in that rift, but it gets insanely difficult when all parties involved are comprised by so talented individuals. In reality I believe that noone deep inside wanted a rift, but since it came we have to either deal with it and fix it or just leave it alone. Escalating something is to the expense of the platform in the end wouldn't you agree? To come back to my personal opinion (and to contradict Fabrizio... sorry Fabrizio :-) I personally do not feel abandoned. The sources are there (for every major OS) to be adapted and used and if I like it I can change it (and learn a thing or two in the process). Abandoned, I'd be if I requested help and I did not receive. To date I haven't seen anything to justify that from either the SMSQ/E camp or the Free Software camp. Everytime I asked, I received :-) (Most of the time more than I expected). My personal plans for SMSQ/E concern my (unfished yet) multilingual keyboard driver, greek language module (ready needs to be tested with the latest SMSQ/E), an independent driver for the Aurora for 16 colours and to help Daniele Terdina with adapting the SMSQ/E for the GC to his QemuLator according to his specs. Of these I plan to submit to the source tree everything but the driver which I will make available as a hack to anyone that wants it as I plan on using the code elsewhere and I want it GPLd which clashes with the SMSQ/E license. But it is my personal choice after all as much as it was Marcel's choice for example to release the Aurora driver as a pay-per-view (hehe nice term isn't it?). That doesn't change the fact that Aurora thanks to Marcel now has colour that we can actually use, it's just a matter of preference. Can Marcel be blamed? I do not think so. Can Peter be blamed for not wanting to work with SMSQ/E ? I do not think either. As for Wolfgang's comments I would respectfully disagree. As I said earlier it's anyone's choice how much they value their principles. Maybe Peter (and I do not speak for him rest assured) doesn't want to waiver from his
Re: [ql-users] QLwIP, Ethernet, USB, Q60 successor
Well I think that this whole discussion is an overkill. We did it before but it may be useful to see things a little more removed from the heat now :-) Phoebus Mutual admiration societies achieve nothing. There are differences of opinion in almost all aspects of QL computing. The 'licence' is just one of them. Long may this continue. All we have to do is just keep pushing. John Taylor.
Re: [ql-users] QLwIP, Ethernet, USB, Q60 successor
On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 21:35:50 +0100, John Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well I think that this whole discussion is an overkill. We did it before but it may be useful to see things a little more removed from the heat now :-) Phoebus Mutual admiration societies achieve nothing. There are differences of opinion in almost all aspects of QL computing. The 'licence' is just one of them. Long may this continue. All we have to do is just keep pushing. John Taylor. Hehe I agree with you John, the problem lies when difference of opinion becomes all-out war (or low intensity conflict as our dear Prez likes to call it :-) Difference of opinion makes for some VERY constructive thinking. Conflict on the other hand creates conflict... Just my two cents... Phoebus -- Visit the QL-FAQ at: http://www.dokos-gr.net/ql/faq/ (Still uploading stuff!) Visit the uQLX-win32 homepage at: http://www.dokos-gr.net/ql/uqlx.html Visit the uQLX-mac home page at:http://www.dokos-gr.net/ql/uqlxmac.html
Re: [ql-users] QLwIP, Ethernet, USB, Q60 successor
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 11 Oct 2003 at 23:17, Peter Graf wrote: (...) Q60 Successor: (...) After the departure of Tony Tebby, I see no basis for projects like this anymore, because there's no common ground with the new SMSQ/E maintainers, Well of course not, you never tried to find one. Well and we felt we walked 100 miles toward a compromise while you didn't move an inch. My mail was however an answer to some repeatedly asked questions and a status report. I just said there's no common ground, a realistic view, that did not contain negative judgement of your attitude. I'd be glad if you also respect mine. and at the same time no freedom to develop SMSQ/E under open source conditions. Oh rubbish. To share the definition of open source with the outside world is not necessarily rubbish. This lack of common ground seems to stem from the fact that you prefer to profit from developments made for other systems (eg. Marcel's new wman etc) and not chip in anything of your own. I never used any version of SMSQ/E after those from Tony Tebby, so I've no idea what this profit should be. Peter
Re: [ql-users] QLwIP, Ethernet, USB, Q60 successor
On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 23:41:37 +0200, Marcel Kilgus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Nobody is stopping anybody from releasing a piece of code under 2 licenses. That is not possible under any legal agreement. It's other one or the other especially for GPL style licenses as the premise is so different that it is impossible to do so. QPC earnings have for a while cross-financed my other developments from which all platforms (especially the Qx0) profited. Now they are effectively down to 0, it has been on the market for over 8 years, everybody who wanted it has it by now. You could see this Aurora thing just as a rather desperate attempt to raise some funds to justify my further involvement into the SMSQ/E development. I demand 15 EUR per Aurora driver, which I think is a moderate price considered the time spent on it (by the way, much of the work went into the part that actually got back into the open SMSQ/E source tree. You'll be grateful once you actually do the 16 colour driver, you won't have to invent that wheel again). Only this week I spent a whole day fixing SMSQ/E for SGC (the QubIDE problem which in the end wasn't related to QubIDE at all) although it was not my code that was at fault. In fact it was just luck that it ran most of the time at all. Oh I do not argue all these points. As I said, it's a personal choice to do or to do not do something. If for example (as my self) one maintains a QL related business for other reasons (It's a good tax break after all), profits really do not matter although I have made profits but not from SMSQ/E but QL related from eBay trading beside that though it's a nice distraction for me cooped up in the house all day. That said, it's essential that we understand and respect everybody's choice. (You're repeating yourself! Move ON! -Ed.) I made it clear on many occasions (and I will do it again) that I respect everybody's work... especially work of such high quality as yours. And to be honest, especially you I do not believe that you are motivated by $$$ but by genuine appreciation of the platform. That has been demonstrated many many times by you to me personally and to the community at large. That extends to other QLers I believe (including Peter) and in the final analysis, I think most of us are interested in the platform although our views differ and many times are even diametrically opposed. (ie. most people here seem to like the PE which I personally find terrible -at least now though it is pretty ;-) Still terrible however :-D -Just to bring a simple example- In conclusion, free beer is nice, as long as you're not the publican. At this point I'd like to thank the one person who actually gave a donation. Well I agree that Free beer is nice but having something *really* open source and free does not exclude the possibility of making money out of it! (See for example Linux distros) I still believe that the license gap can be remedied, although apart from that I have other problems with the current SMSQ/E versions. The changes that I have in mind (and some of which I have implemented in test tube conditions, discarded or kept) break so much compatibility that it would be unacceptable from most users. (Not to mention that my idea of a GUI has nothing to do with the PE which in turn can turn off many users! This just to clear things up regarding my motivation. I personally would like to give everything away for free, but that doesn't pay my bills. Understandable and respected :-) I never doubted that anyway! Well, Peter sells hardware, of course he wouldn't mind the software being totally free. I sell software, I wouldn't mind getting the hardware for free, but that usually doesn't happen either ;-) I think this pretty much sums it up. Well I think it is a bit deeper than that but it's a acceptable view nonetheless. Now just for the heck of it... isn't it so much nicer when we disagree in a civilised manner??? :-D I do believe that at one point we will have to Phoebus -- Visit the QL-FAQ at: http://www.dokos-gr.net/ql/faq/ (Still uploading stuff!) Visit the uQLX-win32 homepage at: http://www.dokos-gr.net/ql/uqlx.html Visit the uQLX-mac home page at:http://www.dokos-gr.net/ql/uqlxmac.html
Re: [ql-users] QLwIP, Ethernet, USB, Q60 successor
Phoebus R. Dokos (F??ß?? ?. ?t) wrote: That is not possible under any legal agreement. It's other one or the other especially for GPL style licenses as the premise is so different that it is impossible to do so. I can release my software under any number of licences I chose to do. I can release it under the GPL and yet keep my own source changes for me. Or sell closed source binaries to others. It only gets more complicated once I want to integrate things people have done to my GPL version into my other one. As long as I'm the only one I can do whatever I want. And to be honest, especially you I do not believe that you are motivated by $$$ but by genuine appreciation of the platform. Yes, if I was motivated by $$$ I would have left the scene several years ago, I'd have to sell at least 1 QPC per hour to really make it commercially viable for me. But writing computer software is my only income and therefore I must somehow justify any time I spend on something. Well I agree that Free beer is nice but having something *really* open source and free does not exclude the possibility of making money out of it! (See for example Linux distros) Bad example, I know none that actually makes any money out of the end-user business. Look at RedHat, they got rid of it by releasing their stuff into the Fedora project. And I think you will have trouble finding a better example. Now just for the heck of it... isn't it so much nicer when we disagree in a civilised manner??? :-D I think it might be hard to find any argument from me that wasn't civilised ;-) I do believe that at one point we will have to ... have to aah He must have died while typing it Marcel
