[ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible?
Hello out there does any of the existing QL emulators support a QL network link between PC and QL? - I do not mean by Serial port (as I know QPC2 can do this) but by the "QL network" connection - probably to a pair of data/ground pins on the PC's parallel port? Regards Michael ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible?
Michael Berger wrote: > does any of the existing QL emulators support a QL network link between PC > and QL? - I do not mean by Serial port (as I know QPC2 can do this) but by > the "QL network" connection - probably to a pair of data/ground pins on the > PC's parallel port? No, I was experimenting with this 10 years ago, but IIRC the timing was much too critical. And using SERNET you can have all features of the QL net with the serial port, too (except probably connecting multiple machines, I'm not sure about this point). Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible?
There is the QXL - a hardware QL emulator - Which has QL network ports on the back. I often used mine between my QXL/PC and black box QL, mind you that was before QPC and SERNET :-)) Darren Branagh, Bank of Ireland - Cards And Loans Business, Nassau House, 33/35 Nassau Street, Dublin 2. Ireland. Tel: 1850-530-530 Fax: 01-6706813. Direct Line:- (+353)-1-6176082 BOI Group Data Classification - Marcel Kilgus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by:cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible? s.q-v-d.com 28/07/2004 21:17 Please respond to ql-users Michael Berger wrote: > does any of the existing QL emulators support a QL network link between PC > and QL? - I do not mean by Serial port (as I know QPC2 can do this) but by > the "QL network" connection - probably to a pair of data/ground pins on the > PC's parallel port? No, I was experimenting with this 10 years ago, but IIRC the timing was much too critical. And using SERNET you can have all features of the QL net with the serial port, too (except probably connecting multiple machines, I'm not sure about this point). Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify us immediately at [EMAIL PROTECTED] and delete this E-mail from your system. Thank you. It is possible for data transmitted by email to be deliberately or accidentally corrupted or intercepted. For this reason, where the communication is by email, the Bank of Ireland Group does not accept any responsibility for any breach of confidence which may arise through the use of this medium. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of known computer viruses. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible?
Darren Branagh wrote: > There is the QXL - a hardware QL emulator - Which has QL network ports on > the back. I often used mine between my QXL/PC and black box QL, mind you > that was before QPC and SERNET :-)) Yes, and IIRC it depended on the QXL's speed, if a faster processor was fitted it upset the network timing, a bit like running TK2 ROM image network from fats RAM systems! The Aurora card has a QL network socket too. It comes in handy networking my MinisQL to my backup QL when that gets used occasionally. > Michael Berger wrote: > > does any of the existing QL emulators support a QL network link between > PC > > and QL? - I do not mean by Serial port (as I know QPC2 can do this) but > by > > the "QL network" connection - probably to a pair of data/ground pins on > the > > PC's parallel port? > Marcel Kilgus wrote: > No, I was experimenting with this 10 years ago, but IIRC the timing > was much too critical. And using SERNET you can have all features of > the QL net with the serial port, too (except probably connecting > multiple machines, I'm not sure about this point). Sernet can connect several serial ports, but special cabling is needed to form a circular handshaking loop, I never really got that to work (not that I spent much time on it!). Bernd Reinhardt told me that not all versions of Sernet supported the multiple computer approach, advising me to contact him direct if I needed a version that supported that facility at the time, I don't know if it's since been put into all versions. It would be nice to get a three station sernet working, to network my Minis-QL, PC and my wife's laptop together. A little bit of spare time to source some plugs and cables and I might try it sometime.Anyone already tried it? -- Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible?
Hi Dilwyn, I made a cable and connect up QPC2, Q60, QXL, QL, Atari ST QL All worked very well, except the serial network speed is limited to the slowest machine, in the the above chage the QL. But QPC2 to Q60 Sernets very easily at 115600 baud giving 11.56K transfer. The only failure I had was on Superhermes, but that is down to the ser3 port not having a Sernet compatible serial device driver. But I think it could be rewritten. I was going to make a little Sernet hub box, but never got around to it, maybe when I have a spare moment, I could do this. Derek On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 22:44:51 +0100 "Dilwyn Jones" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Darren Branagh wrote: > > There is the QXL - a hardware QL emulator - Which has QL network ports on > > the back. I often used mine between my QXL/PC and black box QL, mind you > > that was before QPC and SERNET :-)) > Yes, and IIRC it depended on the QXL's speed, if a faster processor was > fitted it upset the network timing, a bit like running TK2 ROM image network > from fats RAM systems! > > The Aurora card has a QL network socket too. It comes in handy networking my > MinisQL to my backup QL when that gets used occasionally. > > > Michael Berger wrote: > > > does any of the existing QL emulators support a QL network link between > > PC > > > and QL? - I do not mean by Serial port (as I know QPC2 can do this) but > > by > > > the "QL network" connection - probably to a pair of data/ground pins on > > the > > > PC's parallel port? > > > > Marcel Kilgus wrote: > > No, I was experimenting with this 10 years ago, but IIRC the timing > > was much too critical. And using SERNET you can have all features of > > the QL net with the serial port, too (except probably connecting > > multiple machines, I'm not sure about this point). > Sernet can connect several serial ports, but special cabling is needed to > form a circular handshaking loop, I never really got that to work (not that > I spent much time on it!). Bernd Reinhardt told me that not all versions of > Sernet supported the multiple computer approach, advising me to contact him > direct if I needed a version that supported that facility at the time, I > don't know if it's since been put into all versions. > > It would be nice to get a three station sernet working, to network my > Minis-QL, PC and my wife's laptop together. A little bit of spare time to > source some plugs and cables and I might try it sometime.Anyone already > tried it? > -- > Dilwyn Jones > > ___ > QL-Users Mailing List > http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible?
Hello out there, is sernet for the QL free or does it cost money? As far as I understand the matter it is already built into the OS of QPC2, but I would need a software counterpart for the Sinclair black box? So far I only found webpages containing discussions on sernet but not a download page :-( File transfer via floppy disk is my current alternative, but looks like that is not too reliable - maybe due to the fact that I do not have 'real' 3.5" DD disks but rather HD disks formatted as DD. The QL's disk drive apparently does not have problems with them but QPC2 doesn't recognize DD formatted HD disks unless I close the HD hole with adhesive tape. Marcel, I guess the program has a good reason to primarily look for the disk's hardware marker (hole) rather than its actual formatting? When I close the HD hole on the disk then the QL sometimes reports read errors with files written on the PC's disk drive. I assume my QL's disk drive is not sick, because it never has problems with disks that are only in use on that drive all the time. Is it possible that data exchange between DD and HD drives is in principle unsafe beacuse of something like different magnetic ... whatever ... behavior? Greetings! Michael ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible?
> I made a cable and connect up QPC2, Q60, QXL, QL, Atari ST QL > > All worked very well, except the serial network speed is limited to the slowest machine, in the the above chage the QL. I expected that. Which version of Sernet did you use to get the 'circular' system working. That's one reason why I never spent much time on it, not being sure if I had a workable version or not. I got a good transfer speed between my old PC and my wife's laptop, both of which had fast serial ports. > I was going to make a little Sernet hub box, but never got around to it, maybe when I have a spare moment, I could do this. That sounds like a good idea actually. Then all you need is simple cabling to the individual computers and the box takes care of looping the handshaking round presumably. If you ever get time, I think a short article in Quanta or Toady to explain the wiring might be handy, for posterity! -- Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible?
Michael Berger wrote: > is sernet for the QL free or does it cost money? As far as I understand the > matter it is already built into the OS of QPC2, but I would need a software > counterpart for the Sinclair black box? No, it's supplied separately on the SMSQ/E (or QPC) disc. And normally it does need the extended SER drivers of SMSQ/E anyway, you can however try Simser to extend the standard QL drivers: http://thgodef.nerim.net/smsq/Area11/SIMSER.zip > Marcel, I guess the program has a good reason to primarily look for > the disk's hardware marker (hole) rather than its actual formatting? This mechanism is at work deep below the application level. It's probably even the doing of the controller chip. > Is it possible that data exchange between DD and HD drives is in > principle unsafe beacuse of something like different magnetic ... > whatever ... behavior? Well, the magnetic surface is different, of course, the extra hole is not the only difference between DD and HD discs ;-) Usually it works, but there can be problems. Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible?
> File transfer via floppy disk is my current alternative, but looks like that > is not too reliable - maybe due to the fact that I do not have 'real' 3.5" > DD disks but rather HD disks formatted as DD. The QL's disk drive apparently > does not have problems with them but QPC2 doesn't recognize DD formatted HD > disks unless I close the HD hole with adhesive tape. Marcel, I guess the > program has a good reason to primarily look for the disk's hardware marker > (hole) rather than its actual formatting? Some drives recognize the hole by light-sensor some other by a switch... so your adhesive tape may be opac an closing the hole on both sides ! > When I close the HD hole on the disk then the QL sometimes reports read > errors with files written on the PC's disk drive. I assume my QL's disk > drive is not sick, because it never has problems with disks that are only in > use on that drive all the time. I had a lot of good running but not compatible drives :-( Another point : always format HD-disks in DD-format onely with the DD-drive !!! Use onely fresh formatted-disks to make transfer and do not use files on them for long time... > Is it possible that data exchange between DD and HD drives is in principle > unsafe beacuse of something like different magnetic ... whatever ... > behavior? HD-heads are smaller than DD-heads : that's the source of most of problems. > Greetings! > > Michael So long Gerhard ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible?
Dilwyn, If only 2 machines or nodes are on the Sernet, then a standard null modem leas will do. Try Maplins or any electronics store or I can supply them. With more than 2 nodes on the serial network, then a special cable or arrangement must be made. As you have suggested, the Sernet is a circular networking system. So that Inputs are connected to Outputs. The actual cable is a little cumbersome, so I thought of making a little hub box for 4 nodes with all the interconnections made. All that is required is straight serial port cables from the network node. I will make a prototype SerHub box it would make the serial networking a lot more easiler than it is now. I am using Sernet v2.22, I am sure there are later versions, but this is version that I have had reliable results on all QL machines. Only failure is Superhermes, which due to the way the SER3 port is coded can not have split speeds under the way SMSQ/E requires Sernet to work. If the SER3 source code were avavilable, I am sure that this problem could be solved. Derek On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 19:53:03 +0100 "Dilwyn Jones" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I made a cable and connect up QPC2, Q60, QXL, QL, Atari ST QL > > > > All worked very well, except the serial network speed is limited to the > slowest machine, in the the above chage the QL. > I expected that. > > Which version of Sernet did you use to get the 'circular' system working. > That's one reason why I never spent much time on it, not being sure if I > had a workable version or not. I got a good transfer speed between my old PC > and my wife's laptop, both of which had fast serial ports. > > > I was going to make a little Sernet hub box, but never got around to it, > maybe when I have a spare moment, I could do this. > That sounds like a good idea actually. Then all you need is simple cabling > to the individual computers and the box takes care of looping the > handshaking round presumably. If you ever get time, I think a short article > in Quanta or Toady to explain the wiring might be handy, for posterity! > > -- > Dilwyn Jones > > ___ > QL-Users Mailing List > http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible?
- Original Message - From: "Marcel Kilgus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 2:06 AM Subject: Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible? > No, it's supplied separately on the SMSQ/E (or QPC) disc. And normally > it does need the extended SER drivers of SMSQ/E anyway, you can > however try Simser to extend the standard QL drivers: > http://thgodef.nerim.net/smsq/Area11/SIMSER.zip > Hi, thanks a lot for those hints, thanks to that I am probably very close to the point to get a QL <--> QPC2 connection up and running. Managed to transfer the SIMSER_BIN and SERNET files to the QL via disk. on the QL I activate both LRESPR FLP1_SIMSER_BIN LRESPR FLP1_SERNET on the QPC2 side only LRESPR WIN1_SERNET(these are the places where the files sit on my particular system) then I tried to set both sides to different station numbers by using the SNET command (SNET 2 on the QL, SNET 1 on QPC2) But what is the next step, or am I still missing something? (have a serial cable that is designed for the QL's SER2 port). Is there some additional configuration (baud rate, port# ...) required? Best regards, Michael ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible?
Michael Berger schrieb: - Original Message - From: "Marcel Kilgus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 2:06 AM Subject: Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible? No, it's supplied separately on the SMSQ/E (or QPC) disc. And normally it does need the extended SER drivers of SMSQ/E anyway, you can however try Simser to extend the standard QL drivers: http://thgodef.nerim.net/smsq/Area11/SIMSER.zip michael there is a very good manual in the above mentioned zip-file (sogar auf deutsch) i think it will help you bye wolfgang Hi, thanks a lot for those hints, thanks to that I am probably very close to the point to get a QL <--> QPC2 connection up and running. Managed to transfer the SIMSER_BIN and SERNET files to the QL via disk. on the QL I activate both LRESPR FLP1_SIMSER_BIN LRESPR FLP1_SERNET on the QPC2 side only LRESPR WIN1_SERNET(these are the places where the files sit on my particular system) then I tried to set both sides to different station numbers by using the SNET command (SNET 2 on the QL, SNET 1 on QPC2) But what is the next step, or am I still missing something? (have a serial cable that is designed for the QL's SER2 port). Is there some additional configuration (baud rate, port# ...) required? ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible?
- Original Message - From: "wolfgang mühlegger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 3:39 PM Subject: Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible? > michael > > there is a very good manual in the above mentioned zip-file > (sogar auf deutsch) ;-) > > i think it will help you probably not at this point: The serial cable that I have is designed for the QL's serial port #2 (AFAIK the wiring for the ser ports is not identical). I assume sernet is preconfigured to use ser1(?) So I am in trouble how to configure sernet to use ser2 port. Somewhere else I read that the MenuConfig program can do that. Found the program itself, but no manual or tutorial for it. Trying the command "lrespr menuconfig" just gives me a version information on the command line but no hint how to use the prog. Best regards, Michael ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible?
Michael Berger schrieb: - Original Message - From: "wolfgang mühlegger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 3:39 PM Subject: Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible? michael there is a very good manual in the above mentioned zip-file (sogar auf deutsch) ;-) i think it will help you probably not at this point: The serial cable that I have is designed for the QL's serial port #2 (AFAIK the wiring for the ser ports is not identical). I assume sernet is preconfigured to use ser1(?) So I am in trouble how to configure sernet to use ser2 port. Somewhere else I read that the MenuConfig program can do that. Found the program itself, but no manual or tutorial for it. Trying the command "lrespr menuconfig" just gives me a version information on the command line but no hint how to use the prog. EXEC MENUCONFIG that should help here is my netstart_cmd: REMark NETSTART_BAS REMark BAUD 115200 : rem i use qpc2 only, so setting the bau-rate is rem not required here, i get better results when i rem use the win$-devicemanager REMark BAUD 57600 REMark BAUD 38400 REMark BAUD 19200 REMark BAUD 14400 REMark BAUD 9600 PRINT 'Starting SERNET..' LRESPR 'win1_sys_sernet' : rem win1_sys_ is my systemfolder X$ = QPC_NETNAME$ X = X$(LEN(X$)) PRINT 'Netstation #';x rem SNET X PRINT 'Starting Serverjob ..' EXEP 'SERNET' PRINT 'SERNET is Ready!' CONTINUE bye wolfgang ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible?
On Sun, 01 Aug 2004 17:47:01 +0200, wolfgang mÃhlegger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Michael Berger schrieb: - Original Message - From: "wolfgang mÃhlegger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 3:39 PM Subject: Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible? michael there is a very good manual in the above mentioned zip-file (sogar auf deutsch) ;-) i think it will help you probably not at this point: The serial cable that I have is designed for the QL's serial port #2 (AFAIK the wiring for the ser ports is not identical). I assume sernet is preconfigured to use ser1(?) So I am in trouble how to configure sernet to use ser2 port. Somewhere else I read that the MenuConfig program can do that. Found the program itself, but no manual or tutorial for it. Trying the command "lrespr menuconfig" just gives me a version information on the command line but no hint how to use the prog. EXEC MENUCONFIG that should help here is my netstart_cmd: REMark NETSTART_BAS REMark BAUD 115200 : rem i use qpc2 only, so setting the bau-rate is rem not required here, i get better results when i rem use the win$-devicemanager REMark BAUD 57600 REMark BAUD 38400 REMark BAUD 19200 REMark BAUD 14400 REMark BAUD 9600 PRINT 'Starting SERNET..' LRESPR 'win1_sys_sernet' : rem win1_sys_ is my systemfolder X$ = QPC_NETNAME$ X = X$(LEN(X$)) PRINT 'Netstation #';x rem SNET X PRINT 'Starting Serverjob ..' EXEP 'SERNET' PRINT 'SERNET is Ready!' CONTINUE Of course sernet HAS to be configured with Menuconfig (or config) first and remember that it will only work up to 19200 (with Hermes) between a real QL and QPC2 or at best at 2400 without Hermes. Sadly (as Derek pointed) superHermes Ser3 will not work even when rerouted to ser2 with one of superHermes redirection commands although I have never tried Simser on a Minerva to see if the redirection can be made before simser is run and sernet won't know about it :-) Phoebus ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible?
Here is the procedure on how to setp up SERNET. Assuming QPC2 to QL Connect the serial ports up with a null modem lead or cross over the control lines. TX-Rx RTS-CTS GND-GND Only 5 wires are required. SER1 on the QL is already reversed. But look at the QL manual fo the connections. With sernet configured to SER2 for both machines Assuming that QPC2 is the server and the QL is the client then: On QPC2 using SER2 10 BAUD 2,9600 20 LRESPR "SERNET_SER2_REXT" 30 SNET 1 40 SERNET : REMark Sernet file server On QL using SER2 10 LRESPR "SIMSER_REXT" 20 BAUD 9600 30 LRESPR "SERNET_SER2_REXT" 40 SNET 2 Now do DIR S1_WIN1_ which give to a directory listing of QPC2 WIN1. Increase the baud rate on both machine to get the best reliable connection rate. I have only ecer got 9600 baud reliable. Of course if you use a Q60 and QPC2 then the serial baud rate goes upto 115600 baud which is over 20% faster than the QL network giving speeds of over 11.56K/sec I normally configure 4 version of SERNET for each serial port SER1-4 make life easy. Derek On Sun, 01 Aug 2004 17:47:01 +0200 wolfgang mühlegger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Michael Berger schrieb: > > > - Original Message - > > From: "wolfgang mühlegger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 3:39 PM > > Subject: Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible? > > > >>michael > >> > >>there is a very good manual in the above mentioned zip-file > >>(sogar auf deutsch) > > > > ;-) > > > >>i think it will help you > > > > > > probably not at this point: > > The serial cable that I have is designed for the QL's serial port #2 (AFAIK > > the wiring for the ser ports is not identical). I assume sernet is > > preconfigured to use ser1(?) So I am in trouble how to configure sernet to > > use ser2 port. Somewhere else I read that the MenuConfig program can do > > that. Found the program itself, but no manual or tutorial for it. Trying the > > command "lrespr menuconfig" just gives me a version information on the > > command line but no hint how to use the prog. > EXEC MENUCONFIG > > that should help > > here is my netstart_cmd: > > REMark NETSTART_BAS > REMark BAUD 115200 : rem i use qpc2 only, so setting the bau-rate is > > rem not required here, i get better results when i > rem use the win$-devicemanager > REMark BAUD 57600 > REMark BAUD 38400 > REMark BAUD 19200 > REMark BAUD 14400 > REMark BAUD 9600 > PRINT 'Starting SERNET..' > LRESPR 'win1_sys_sernet' : rem win1_sys_ is my systemfolder > X$ = QPC_NETNAME$ > X = X$(LEN(X$)) > PRINT 'Netstation #';x > rem SNET X > PRINT 'Starting Serverjob ..' > EXEP 'SERNET' > PRINT 'SERNET is Ready!' > CONTINUE > > > bye > wolfgang > > > ___ > QL-Users Mailing List > http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible?
- Original Message - From: "wolfgang mühlegger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible? > EXEC MENUCONFIG > > that should help that explains a lot! ... of course I could not execute MenuConfig ... because I unzipped it under Windows! So QDOS has no chance to recognize it as an executable. That is BTW one of my major problems at the moment: I do not yet have a working UNZIP prog under QDOS. Which prg / version is most recommended? Ok, so in between tried something like transforming MenuConfig manually into an executable using LBYTES and SEXEC commands with a guess of 16K for the dataspace - I assume if such a guess for the dataspace is bigger than the really needed, then the prog should never have a problem with it??? Afterwards EX MENUCONFIG comes back with an error message "Menu Extention not present" - ok, I can understand this need - somewhere on a demo WIN file for QPC I found a file named MENU_REXT wich reports to be a demo version 5.03 from 1994. Once that is loaded EXEC MENUCONFIG reports "Menu Extention too old" - RRGG! (Sorry...) Funny (or not) but it is like an endless chain of problems, whenever you have solved one you run into the next... Kind regards, Michael ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible?
On Sun, 1 Aug 2004 19:36:59 +0200, Michael Berger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: - Original Message - From: "wolfgang mÃhlegger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible? EXEC MENUCONFIG that should help that explains a lot! ... of course I could not execute MenuConfig ... because I unzipped it under Windows! So QDOS has no chance to recognize it as an executable. That is BTW one of my major problems at the moment: I do not yet have a working UNZIP prog under QDOS. Which prg / version is most recommended? Not 100% true. If you rename under DOS Menuconfig to say Menuconf.EXn (where n is the appropriate no for the dataspace required (see SMSQ/e manual) you can execute Menuconfig from a dos disk (or a DOS device under QPC2) even if the header is lost. (Of course you do require SMSQ/e to do that under real QL hardware) Ok, so in between tried something like transforming MenuConfig manually into an executable using LBYTES and SEXEC commands with a guess of 16K for the dataspace - I assume if such a guess for the dataspace is bigger than the really needed, then the prog should never have a problem with it??? Afterwards EX MENUCONFIG comes back with an error message "Menu Extention not present" - ok, I can understand this need - somewhere on a demo WIN file for QPC I found a file named MENU_REXT wich reports to be a demo version 5.03 from 1994. Once that is loaded EXEC MENUCONFIG reports "Menu Extention too old" - RRGG! (Sorry...) As you correctly found out you also need a newer Menu_rext :-) Menu extensions are not free and have to be purchased however for your purposes config_exe (that doesn't require Menu extensions) can be used. IIRC sernet only has v.1 config blocks (I am completely against the idea of config blocks myself... and all self modifying executables for that manner... btw :-) ) and config_exe is free. I can send you a version of config if you need. Funny (or not) but it is like an endless chain of problems, whenever you have solved one you run into the next... Yes but it's more fun like that... with windows you would be already stuck without the possibility for (easy) answers ;-) but on QDOS you already got offers for help :-) Phoebus ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible?
- Original Message - From: "Phoebus R. Dokos (ÎÏ Î. ÎÏÏÎÎÏ)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 8:06 PM Subject: Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible? > IIRC sernet > only has v.1 config blocks (I am completely against the idea of config > blocks myself... and all self modifying executables for that manner... btw > :-) ) Completely agree. Having the configuration information within the executable file itself is a messy and error prone thing. Remember a lesson on information theory where patching executables was told to be one of the major sins of programming... and I must admit this matter would have been much easier in case the sernet file was accompanied with something like a sernet_config file in plain text format. > and config_exe is free. I can send you a version of config if you > need. Thanks for the nice offer. I found a version of config_exe on the already mentioned demo disk (petawin.zip from Marcel's homepage). Could start it but it tells me that sernet does not have a config level 1 block. Am I doing something wrong? After all I guess the simplest workaround for me would be to get a cable that works with the QL's ser1 port - as I picked up from the discussion several people use sernet but noone gave a step-by step description how to set it up for ser2. Kind regards, Michael ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible?
- Original Message - From: "Derek Stewart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 7:06 PM Subject: Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible? > on QL using SER2 Hi Derek, if I interpret that correctly you do have a sernet that is configured to use the QL's ser2 port ? Would it be possible to send me a copy of that sernet file? Thanks in advance! Michael ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible?
On Sun, 1 Aug 2004 20:56:06 +0200, Michael Berger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: - Original Message - From: "Phoebus R. Dokos (Φοίβος Ρ. Ντόκος)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 8:06 PM Subject: Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible? IIRC sernet only has v.1 config blocks (I am completely against the idea of config blocks myself... and all self modifying executables for that manner... btw :-) ) Completely agree. Having the configuration information within the executable file itself is a messy and error prone thing. Remember a lesson on information theory where patching executables was told to be one of the major sins of programming... and I must admit this matter would have been much easier in case the sernet file was accompanied with something like a sernet_config file in plain text format. and config_exe is free. I can send you a version of config if you need. Thanks for the nice offer. I found a version of config_exe on the already mentioned demo disk (petawin.zip from Marcel's homepage). Could start it but it tells me that sernet does not have a config level 1 block. Am I doing something wrong? Nope it just means that I was wrong and that sernet needs config level 2 blocks. I am using Menuconfig for these so I do not know if there's anything else free that can deal with them. Petawin.zip I believe includes a menuconfig that works so it is possible that you could configure your sernet from there. Just attach your current qxl.win file to a different win drive and use the petawin file to boot from. After all I guess the simplest workaround for me would be to get a cable that works with the QL's ser1 port - as I picked up from the discussion several people use sernet but noone gave a step-by step description how to set it up for ser2. It works the same way as long as sernet is configured to run from ser2 (or ser1 for that matter). There are problems with the IPC however on the QL and that's why it is *RECOMMENDED* to switch to a decent IPC like superHermes(lite) or -AT LEAST- Hermes. If you have a Samsung QL (ie D serial ports) then a regular Null modem cable will do the trick for you (That's how I use it). There have been other cables discussed but I never encountered any problems myself with a PC cable. A very good primer is on QLT - Contact Jochen Merz for a copy of that issue where Sernet-ting is exhausted as a subject :-) (And as Jochen nicely said it ... We've told you IT works!) An additional idea is to find an old Menuconfig (Which is free unlike Menu_rext) that can work with the Menu extensions that you already have. However I do believe that (and I maybe wrong so don't quote me on that :-) ) updates for Menu_rext are free until the colour enabled version so Jochen may be able to provide you with one that works with the Menuconfig that you have. Phoebus P.S. Of course there's always the solution of using disks :-) ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible?
Phoebus R. Dokos (F??ß?? ?. ?t) wrote: > Not 100% true. If you rename under DOS Menuconfig to say Menuconf.EXn > (where n is the appropriate no for the dataspace required (see SMSQ/e > manual) you can execute Menuconfig from a dos disk (or a DOS device under > QPC2) even if the header is lost. No, this kludge only works for the FLP device. > As you correctly found out you also need a newer Menu_rext :-) Menu > extensions are not free and have to be purchased however for your purposes > config_exe (that doesn't require Menu extensions) can be used. IIRC sernet > only has v.1 config blocks (I am completely against the idea of config > blocks myself... and all self modifying executables for that manner... Well, it's absolutely not *self* modifying. It's done in a precisely defined way by another application and not during runtime, therefore all the rules that say "modifying code is bad" don't apply. And as the concept of a "working directory" or a "current directory" is alien to the QL it's actually the only way it can really work. >> Funny (or not) but it is like an endless chain of problems, whenever you >> have solved one you run into the next... Well, that very much reminds me of myself setting up a new linux box (router, file server, ISDN server, fax server, FTP server and filesharer in one machine) the last days. As soon as you want to do something that is not part of your distribution you're up for trouble. So, times have not changed that much ;-) Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible?
Michael Berger wrote: > Completely agree. Having the configuration information within the executable > file itself is a messy and error prone thing. Why's that? What's error prone about this? And once you're used to this, it's actually a piece of cake. Level 2 is especially nice because it can update new versions of an application to the old configuration. Very convenient. Anyway, sorry for the dumb question, but isn't both Menu_rext and MenuConfig provided on the QPC disc? I might be wrong, I don't put the disc contents together and haven't seen an original disc in ages, but I thought this was the case. > Remember a lesson on information theory where patching executables > was told to be one of the major sins of programming... and I must > admit this matter would have been much easier in case the sernet > file was accompanied with something like a sernet_config file in > plain text format. Then you would have to configure sernet_rext to tell it where to find the text file... the original QL design didn't have directories and it shows. Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible?
Michael Berger wrote: > that explains a lot! ... of course I could not execute MenuConfig ... > because I unzipped it under Windows! So QDOS has no chance to recognize it > as an executable. That is BTW one of my major problems at the moment: I do > not yet have a working UNZIP prog under QDOS. Which prg / version is most > recommended? There's a standard info-zip version available in the different QL software archives. It's self-extracting after using LRESPR. Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible?
- Original Message - From: "Marcel Kilgus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 11:13 PM Subject: Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible? > There's a standard info-zip version available in the different QL > software archives. It's self-extracting after using LRESPR. > > Marcel InfoUnZip 5.40 I guess? The only problem with that is although it is fairly verbose (fairly QL untypically b.t.w.) but to me it looks like it is not really adapted to QDOS conversions ... ie what I miss is a QDOS example how to unzip an archive from command line Kind Regards Michael ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible?
Michael Berger wrote: > InfoUnZip 5.40 I guess? The only problem with that is although it is fairly > verbose (fairly QL untypically b.t.w.) but to me it looks like it is not > really adapted to QDOS conversions ... ie what I miss is a QDOS example how > to unzip an archive from command line ex unzip;'win1_something.zip -d ram1_' for unzipping to ram disc. Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible?
> Well, it's absolutely not *self* modifying. It's done in a precisely > defined way by another application and not during runtime, therefore > all the rules that say "modifying code is bad" don't apply. And as the > concept of a "working directory" or a "current directory" is alien to > the QL it's actually the only way it can really work. And what kind of directory are fixed by DATA_USE, PROG_USE and DEST_USE in your mind ? But you are right : these directories are system-oriented and not job-oriented :-( Of course it would be better if each job had its own DLIST - perhaps we can change that... to keep compatible default must onely be system DLIST at job starting, but may change later. I know, changing is not really easy as the file open routine adds DATAD$, PROGD$ or DESTD$ at the beginning of the filename if not found... but it's not impossible :)) But do we really need that ? So long Gerhard ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible?
Marcel Kilgus wrote: > Michael Berger wrote: > > Completely agree. Having the configuration information within the > > executable file itself is a messy and error prone thing. > > Why's that? What's error prone about this? And once you're used to > this, it's actually a piece of cake. Level 2 is especially nice > because it can update new versions of an application to the old > configuration. Very convenient. > > Anyway, sorry for the dumb question, but isn't both Menu_rext and > MenuConfig provided on the QPC disc? I might be wrong, I don't put the > disc contents together and haven't seen an original disc in ages, but > I thought this was the case. Menu_rext is not on the Q60 support discs for the same reasons, so I need a copy to. Has there ever been a version of Sernet for non QL computers and is there enough documentation in the public domain for anybody to write one? -- Tarquin Mills Norwich Sinclair and Clones Show (ORSAM 2004) http://www.speccyverse.me.uk/orsam/ http://www.PetitionOnline.com/Sinclair/petition.html (Bring Back YS) ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible?
- Original Message - From: "Derek Stewart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 7:06 PM Subject: Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible? On QPC2 using SER2 10 BAUD 2,9600 20 LRESPR "SERNET_SER2_REXT" 30 SNET 1 40 SERNET : REMark Sernet file server On QL using SER2 10 LRESPR "SIMSER_REXT" 20 BAUD 9600 30 LRESPR "SERNET_SER2_REXT" 40 SNET 2 MB: from that listings I pick one thing up: the SERNET job (file server) must be only invoked on exactly one of both machines, is that right? When I follow these instructions and afterwards use the JOBS command I see on the QL only the sernet slave process and on the QPC both the sernet slave process and a process named SERNET V2.22 Still did not get the whole thing up and running, wonder if my cable is ok. and the SERNET process shows a priority of s126 - guess if it is suspended, something is going wrong? Cheers, Michael Now do DIR S1_WIN1_ which give to a directory listing of QPC2 WIN1. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible?
Michael, The SERNET job invoked by the SERNET keywor is the Sernet file server. Which ideally should be only issued on one machine, but you can have more than more server, but the Sernet system could get confused. The problem maybe the cable, as the SERNET files I sent you all work on my systems. Email the details of your cable to me and I will try and sort out the problem. Derek On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 20:40:33 +0200 "Michael Berger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > - Original Message - > From: "Derek Stewart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 7:06 PM > Subject: Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible? > > > On QPC2 using SER2 > > 10 BAUD 2,9600 > 20 LRESPR "SERNET_SER2_REXT" > 30 SNET 1 > 40 SERNET : REMark Sernet file server > > On QL using SER2 > > 10 LRESPR "SIMSER_REXT" > 20 BAUD 9600 > 30 LRESPR "SERNET_SER2_REXT" > 40 SNET 2 > > > MB: from that listings I pick one thing up: the SERNET job (file server) > must be only invoked on exactly one of both machines, is that right? > When I follow these instructions and afterwards use the JOBS command I see > on the QL only the sernet slave process and on the QPC both the sernet slave > process and a process named SERNET V2.22 > > Still did not get the whole thing up and running, wonder if my cable is ok. > and the SERNET process shows a priority of s126 - guess if it is > suspended, something is going wrong? > > Cheers, > > Michael > > > > Now do DIR S1_WIN1_ which give to a directory listing of QPC2 WIN1. > > > ___ > QL-Users Mailing List > http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible?
> > that explains a lot! ... of course I could not execute MenuConfig ... > > because I unzipped it under Windows! So QDOS has no chance to recognize it > > as an executable. That is BTW one of my major problems at the moment: I do > > not yet have a working UNZIP prog under QDOS. Which prg / version is most > > recommended? > > There's a standard info-zip version available in the different QL > software archives. It's self-extracting after using LRESPR. > > Marcel Jonathan Hudson maintains the QDOS version of ZIP and UNZIP. The primary source is www.daria.co.uk (Jonathan's site) If you want to try to recreate MenuConfig's dataspace, my copy has dataspace of 10240 bytes (10KB) -- Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible?
> > IIRC sernet > > only has v.1 config blocks (I am completely against the idea of config > > blocks myself... and all self modifying executables for that manner... btw > > :-) ) > > Completely agree. Having the configuration information within the executable > file itself is a messy and error prone thing. Remember a lesson on > information theory where patching executables was told to be one of the > major sins of programming... and I must admit this matter would have been > much easier in case the sernet file was accompanied with something like a > sernet_config file in plain text format. Agreed in principle. But one shortcomign of QDOSMSQ is that a program cannot tell where it has just been executed from! So if you have an external configuration file, you need to have a configuration item in the program to know where to look for it! Catch 22. e.g. EXEC win1_progs_MYPROGRAM_EXE When MYPROGRAM_EXE starts, it doesn't know it came from WIN1_ let alone from the subdirectory win1_progs_. The bets it can do is assume it came from PROGD$ (Toolkit 2 program default directory). QDOS and SMSQ seem to treat things like this as though they apply to the entire system, not to an individual job. In other words, there's only one PROGD$ for the whole computer, not a separate one for each program you EXECute. > > > and config_exe is free. I can send you a version of config if you > > need. > > Thanks for the nice offer. I found a version of config_exe on the already > mentioned demo disk (petawin.zip from Marcel's homepage). Could start it but > it tells me that sernet does not have a config level 1 block. Am I doing > something wrong? Sounds like it has a level 2 block (disappears for 2 minutes to check) ...back again Yes, it has a level 2 config block, so you need MenuConfig. Jochen - are you listening? Can one of us send Michael a copy of MenuConfig to help him? Alternatively, if you can send me (off list) a copy of your Sernet telling me which ports you'd like it to use and I'll try to configure it to your requirements for you. Sernet on my QPC is connected via SER2, so I have the configuration items set to: 1. SRX2hd for receive on SER2 2. STX2hd for transmit on SER2 3. Server timeout = 0 > After all I guess the simplest workaround for me would be to get a cable > that works with the QL's ser1 port - as I picked up from the discussion > several people use sernet but noone gave a step-by step description how to > set it up for ser2. Not many people use SERNET with a QL. I could not be sure I was wiring up the silly British serial port connectors correctly, so I gave up. Basically, one is a reversed version of the other, if the device connected doesn't work on ser1 it may well work on ser2. I think one was made for equipment which was expected to connect to a modem (i.e. DCE or Data Communications Equipment, SER1 works as though the QL was a modem) and SER2 as though the QL was a Data Terminal Equipment (DTE) terminal. In a way, if you use SER1, the QL behaves like a modem, if you use SER2 it behaves as though it's a computer terminal. I'm not a hardware expert so I hope the above is accurate! -- Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible?
- Original Message - From: "Derek Stewart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 8:46 PM Subject: Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible? > The problem maybe the cable, as the SERNET files I sent you all work on my systems. > > Email the details of your cable to me and I will try and sort out the problem. Hello Derek, I guess you got it to the point: As far as I could determine using some primitive measurement (I am not a hardware tinkerer) the cable I have does only connect 3 lines (see my ASCII "artwork" below). So I guess it does not support hardware handshaking and I guess the Sernet is configured for that... Kind Regards, Michael PC side --- \ 1 2 3 4 5 / \ 6 7 8 9 / --- QL side (SER2 port, british version) +--- |\ |/ +- 1 2 3 4 5 6 - the cable connects the lines (numbering as above): PC1 QL1 PC3 QL2 PC4 QL3 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible?
> > The problem maybe the cable, as the SERNET files I sent you all work on my > systems. > > > > Email the details of your cable to me and I will try and sort out the > problem. > > Hello Derek, > > I guess you got it to the point: > As far as I could determine using some primitive measurement (I am not a > hardware tinkerer) the cable I have does only connect 3 lines (see my ASCII > "artwork" below). So I guess it does not support hardware handshaking and I > guess the Sernet is configured for that... > > Kind Regards, > > Michael > > >PC side > > --- > \ 1 2 3 4 5 / > \ 6 7 8 9 / >--- > > > QL side (SER2 port, british version) > > +--- > |\ > |/ > +- 1 2 3 4 5 6 - > > > the cable connects the lines (numbering as above): > >PC1 QL1 >PC3 QL2 >PC4 QL3 If you are not using handshaking, lower the baudrate while you experiment, then once you get it working push up the baudrate and see how high it will go without losing characters. Also, once you get low baudrate non-handshaked connection working you can then start to add the handshaking! PC1 is either +9V or 'not connected' on british PCs. If the connections in your country are the same as British computer connections, here is how I would have wired PC 9-pin connector to QL 6-pin SER2 [or SER1 connections] SER2 [SER1] PC5 (GND) QL1 (GND) or [QL1 (GND) ] PC3 (TxD) QL3 (RxD input) or [QL2 (TxD input) ] PC2 (RxD) QL2 (TxD output) or [QL3 (RxD output)] However, I am aware that some versions of the QL manual mislabelled serial port connections. And I have a handwritten note in my manual saying better to regard pin 4 as RTS than as the DTR which it is labelled as. Once someone gets QL to other computer sernet working, I would be most grateful if someone could document it so we can get it published in QL Today. On the assumption that serial connections for sernet would be the same as the old QL-PC Fileserver package from Diren (Robin Barker) I'd expect the connections to be as follows (cable also works with Fleet Tactical Command serial port link): = USA SER1 SER1 PC 25-PIN 9-PIN PC Function QL6-PIN 9-PIN = 7 5 GND GND1 1 2 3 TxD TxD i/p2 2 3 2 RxD RxD o/p3 3 4 7 RTS RTS (DTR) 4 4 5 8 CTS CTS5 5 The list I'd have doesn't specify SER2, but I would expect QL pins 2 and 3 plus 4 and 5 to be swapped. The USA QL ser1 pinouts were supplied by the person who reviewed the QL-PC Fileserver for International QL Report at the time. I have no idea if the German 9-pin QL SER1 connector is the same as the USA QL 9-pin SER1 connector. I'm passing on this information in good faith, but have no idea how correct it is I'm afraid. Hope it helps a little in some way. -- Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible?
- Original Message - From: "Dilwyn Jones" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "QL Users List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 11:37 PM Subject: Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible? > Once someone gets QL to other computer sernet working, I would be most > grateful if someone could document it so we can get it published in QL > Today. On the assumption that serial connections for sernet would be the > same as the old QL-PC Fileserver package from Diren (Robin Barker) I'd > expect the connections to be as follows (cable also works with Fleet > Tactical Command serial port link): > > = > USA > SER1 SER1 > PC 25-PIN 9-PIN PC Function QL6-PIN 9-PIN > = > 7 5 GND GND1 1 > 2 3 TxD TxD i/p2 2 > 3 2 RxD RxD o/p3 3 > 4 7 RTS RTS (DTR) 4 4 > 5 8 CTS CTS5 5 > > > The list I'd have doesn't specify SER2, but I would expect QL pins 2 and 3 > plus 4 and 5 to be swapped. The USA QL ser1 pinouts were supplied by the > person who reviewed the QL-PC Fileserver for International QL Report at the > time. I have no idea if the German 9-pin QL SER1 connector is the same as > the USA QL 9-pin SER1 connector. Hello! Tried to dig a bit deeper into the problem: my SER2 cable was configured as you assumed: 5 lines, pins 2-3 and 4-5 swapped compared to what you describe above. I am really bad at soldering but I dared it: re-soldered those connections as above. After that I managed to run SERNET through the QL's Ser1, but only stable at 1200 baud, at 2400 baud it hangs after a while. So I guess there is still something wrong in principle / or my soldering is not perfect / and of course Sir Sinclair did not build computers with gold contact sockets ;-) looks like it is almost impossible to tell the real source of the problem. With the wiring as in your table above (to best ability soldered...) I did the following: 1) On the QL side: LRESPR FLP1_SIMSER BAUD 1200 LRESPR FLP1_SERNET_SER1 SNET 1 SERNET 2) On the QPC2 side: BAUD 1,1200 LRESPR WIN1_SERNET_SER1 SNET 2 I could only get the whole thing up and running when I run the sernet server on the slow machine - the real QL - and any typing of commands on QPC2. It is incredibly slow (just because of the baud rate or because of some wrong/instable connection of the handshake lines???) >From QPC I can do things succesfully such as DIR S1_FLP1_ ,also sucessfully ran an executable - the metacomco file editor - via the network. Remember I read somewhere that very slow response can be an indicator for wrong wiring. The problem is soo complex, it is not easy making the right conclusions :-( Kind Regards, Michael ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible?
On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 21:51:03 +0200, Michael Berger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: The problem is soo complex, it is not easy making the right conclusions :-( Not really up to 2400 is the maximum reliable you can get on a real QL if you do not have Hermes or superHermes. I'd say your cable is working fine :-) Phoebus ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible?
Hi, 9600 Baud is the maximum reliable data rate I have had betweenn Q60 and QL with SuperHermes and MInerva 1.97 fitted. Superhermes SER3 device driver does not work with Sernet as the device driver does not allow SRX and STX extensions to the port. I suppose if the source to the Super Hermes SER3 were available or it was re-engineered, then this problem could be corrected. Derek On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 21:06:55 -0400 "Phoebus R. Dokos" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>(__ _. __) wrote: > On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 21:51:03 +0200, Michael Berger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > > The problem is soo complex, it is not easy making the right conclusions > > :-( > > > > Not really up to 2400 is the maximum reliable you can get on a real QL > if you do not have Hermes or superHermes. > I'd say your cable is working fine :-) > > Phoebus > ___ > QL-Users Mailing List > http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible?
On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 at 21:40:19, Michael Berger wrote: (ref: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) - Original Message - From: "Derek Stewart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 8:46 PM Subject: Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible? The problem maybe the cable, as the SERNET files I sent you all work on my systems. Email the details of your cable to me and I will try and sort out the problem. Hello Derek, I guess you got it to the point: As far as I could determine using some primitive measurement (I am not a hardware tinkerer) the cable I have does only connect 3 lines (see my ASCII "artwork" below). So I guess it does not support hardware handshaking and I guess the Sernet is configured for that... Kind Regards, Michael PC side --- \ 1 2 3 4 5 / \ 6 7 8 9 / --- QL side (SER2 port, british version) +--- |\ |/ +- 1 2 3 4 5 6 - the cable connects the lines (numbering as above): PC1 QL1 PC3 QL2 PC4 QL3 This will probably not work. You MUST connect handshaking (RTS/CTS) too, especially on non-Hermes equipped machines. QL 'DTR" must be treated as CTS - well it _is_ that is fact. I have not read thread yet, so someone else will have said this. I won't give the pin connections, as I have not got my data to hand! I always find this sort of pinout discussion amazing. This was, I thought, put to bed in 1988/9 with the arrival of QuaLsoft File Transfer, where we laid out quite clearly the necessary pinouts. Dilwyn has written a treatise at the end of a similar discussion on this mailing list a few years back. It seems some subjects will never die (8-)# ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@.co.uk http://www.firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible?
On Sat, 7 Aug 2004 at 11:54:21, Tony Firshman wrote: (ref: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) PC side --- \ 1 2 3 4 5 / \ 6 7 8 9 / --- QL side (SER2 port, british version) +--- |\ |/ +- 1 2 3 4 5 6 - the cable connects the lines (numbering as above): PC1 QL1 PC3 QL2 PC4 QL3 This will probably not work. You MUST connect handshaking (RTS/CTS) too, especially on non-Hermes equipped machines. QL 'DTR" must be treated as CTS - well it _is_ that is fact. Whoops - I write this away from my props. I meant RTS of course. I have not read thread yet, so someone else will have said this. I won't give the pin connections, as I have not got my data to hand! I always find this sort of pinout discussion amazing. This was, I thought, put to bed in 1988/9 with the arrival of QuaLsoft File Transfer, where we laid out quite clearly the necessary pinouts. Dilwyn has written a treatise at the end of a similar discussion on this mailing list a few years back. It seems some subjects will never die (8-)# ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@.co.uk http://www.firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL Network link QL <--> PC possible?
On Sun, 1 Aug 2004 at 15:38:59, Phoebus R. Dokos wrote: (ref: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) > >> After all I guess the simplest workaround for me would be to get a cable >> that works with the QL's ser1 port - as I picked up from the discussion >> several people use sernet but noone gave a step-by step description >>how to >> set it up for ser2. > >It works the same way as long as sernet is configured to run from ser2 >(or ser1 for that matter). There are problems with the IPC however on >the QL and that's why it is *RECOMMENDED* to switch to a decent IPC >like superHermes(lite) or -AT LEAST- Hermes. Hermes will allow 19200 nominal - with up to just under 14000 throughput in and 19200 out. superHermes LITE gives a full 19200 throughput both directions. > superHermes will give up to 230400. Needless to say even a Gold Card equipped QL cannot handle that. A baud rate of 57600 will give full two-way throughput on a supergoldcard QL which is not doing too much else. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@.co.uk http://www.firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
