Re: backup mail server help
On Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 12:42:28PM -0700, Adam Jacob wrote: > On Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 06:03:41AM -0600, Jeff Palmer wrote: > > And if your NFS server goes down, both servers are useless. In which > > case, what was the point of having a backup server again? > > Which is why you deploy this with something like a NetApp filer, that lets you > deliver to NFS, and have multiple external pop3 servers as well. (And have two > NetApp's mirroring your data at the same time) Or just being clustered on the same set of shelves which use RAID4 themselves, so one of each kind of part can go down :) Greetz, Peter -- Against Free Sex! http://www.dataloss.nl/Megahard_en.html
Re: backup mail server help
On Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 06:03:41AM -0600, Jeff Palmer wrote: > And if your NFS server goes down, both servers are useless. In which > case, what was the point of having a backup server again? Which is why you deploy this with something like a NetApp filer, that lets you deliver to NFS, and have multiple external pop3 servers as well. (And have two NetApp's mirroring your data at the same time) Adam -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] - (http://sysadminsith.org) Evil Lord of the Sysadmin Sith Darth Rmdashrf
Re: backup mail server help
Sorry, I forgot to include the list in the to... Any comments would be greatly appreciated, esp. in regard to nfs locking... Jeff, You make a very valid point, however this can be overcome in many ways. I am currently researching this for my employer. Here's a general overview of how I'm planning on designing our network/servers. --- <- external net | | director1director2 | | --- <- internal net | | | qmail1qmail2qmail3 | | | \___ | __/ \|/ | --- <- gigabit 'nfs' net with backup 100Mb net || NFS1 NFS2 I'm looking at using LVS (Linux Virtual Server) to handle the load balancing/clustering. We'll be using the cluster for www/pop3/dns/etc as well. LVS will allow us to add machines dynamically. We'll be using qmail/ldap/ldap-control and 2 (or more) LDAP servers for qmail configuration. I've also considered having the cluster servers boot off of CD and use a single disk for /tmp and the queue. I haven't fully researched the NFS servers yet, but here is my idea. The developer that made ReiserFS also wrote/is writing DRBD, which is capable of doing network mirroring. I am planning to use 2 e450s that I have with Samba (for Win servers), NFS (mirrored with DRBD), and heartbeat software to control the failover between the 2 servers. There are 2 obvious alternatives to the NFS solution that I mentioned though. NetAPP makes an appliance (Filer) that can handle >6TB (RAID5) storage which provides for (according to some friends of mine that use them in a 75+ e6000/45+ win2k env) 5 9s of reliability. I don't have prices, but I've heard that one Filer can run >$80k. The other option is a software solution (clustering/replication/failover) from Veritas, which comes highly recommended. DISCLAIMER: I don't work for any of the above mentioned companies. Would anyone be interested in helping me develop a FAQ for this? Cheers, Mike Jeff Palmer wrote: > And if your NFS server goes down, both servers are useless. In which > case, what was the point of having a backup server again? > > Jeff Palmer > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > At 09:57 AM 6/13/01 +0300, you wrote: > >> Alternatively you can run two SMTP servers and one POP server. Do NAT for >> the two and export the partition with Maildirs(at the pop server) to the >> SMTP servers through NFS. The two servers seem to be one to the outside >> world. NFS can be insecure though. >> >> Joe. >> - Original Message - >> From: "Henning Brauer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 4:15 AM >> Subject: Re: backup mail server help >> >> >> > On Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 04:33:49PM -0700, Hank Wethington wrote: >> > > What I'd like to accomplish is if Server A is unavailable, then mail >> goes to >> > > server B. Once A is back up, server B sends the mail back to >> server A. >> Does >> > >> > On server B, add all domains in question to rcpthosts, but NOT to >> local >> or >> virtualdomains. That's it ;-)) >> > >> > -- >> > * Henning Brauer, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.bsws.de * >> > * Roedingsmarkt 14, 20459 Hamburg, Germany * >> > Unix is very simple, but it takes a genius to understand the >> simplicity. >> > (Dennis Ritchie) >> >
Re: backup mail server help
And if your NFS server goes down, both servers are useless. In which case, what was the point of having a backup server again? Jeff Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 09:57 AM 6/13/01 +0300, you wrote: >Alternatively you can run two SMTP servers and one POP server. Do NAT for >the two and export the partition with Maildirs(at the pop server) to the >SMTP servers through NFS. The two servers seem to be one to the outside >world. NFS can be insecure though. > >Joe. >- Original Message - >From: "Henning Brauer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 4:15 AM >Subject: Re: backup mail server help > > > > On Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 04:33:49PM -0700, Hank Wethington wrote: > > > What I'd like to accomplish is if Server A is unavailable, then mail >goes to > > > server B. Once A is back up, server B sends the mail back to server A. >Does > > > > On server B, add all domains in question to rcpthosts, but NOT to locals >or > > virtualdomains. That's it ;-)) > > > > -- > > * Henning Brauer, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.bsws.de * > > * Roedingsmarkt 14, 20459 Hamburg, Germany * > > Unix is very simple, but it takes a genius to understand the simplicity. > > (Dennis Ritchie) > >
Re: backup mail server help
Alternatively you can run two SMTP servers and one POP server. Do NAT for the two and export the partition with Maildirs(at the pop server) to the SMTP servers through NFS. The two servers seem to be one to the outside world. NFS can be insecure though. Joe. - Original Message - From: "Henning Brauer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 4:15 AM Subject: Re: backup mail server help > On Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 04:33:49PM -0700, Hank Wethington wrote: > > What I'd like to accomplish is if Server A is unavailable, then mail goes to > > server B. Once A is back up, server B sends the mail back to server A. Does > > On server B, add all domains in question to rcpthosts, but NOT to locals or > virtualdomains. That's it ;-)) > > -- > * Henning Brauer, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.bsws.de * > * Roedingsmarkt 14, 20459 Hamburg, Germany * > Unix is very simple, but it takes a genius to understand the simplicity. > (Dennis Ritchie) >
Re: backup mail server help
Hank Wethington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > What I'd like to accomplish is if Server A is unavailable, then mail goes to > server B. Once A is back up, server B sends the mail back to server A. Okay. > Does this make sense? Eminent sense. > I know about the MX records in DNS, but how do I make qmail accept the > messages but not deliver them and eventually send them back to the higher > priority server. If a domain is in neither locals nor virtualdomains, qmail won't try to deliver it on the local box. To get qmail to accept mail for that domain via SMTP, put the domain name in rcpthosts. Charles -- --- Charles Cazabon<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GPL'ed software available at: http://www.qcc.sk.ca/~charlesc/software/ Any opinions expressed are just that -- my opinions. ---
RE: backup mail server help
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hank, on the backup just put the domains in rcpthosts file NOT in locals and NOT in virtualdomains this will effectively configure the backup mail server to accept mail and try to deliver it to the primary. Make sure your dns records are correct. you don't need qmail-pop3d on the secondary because it won't store mail you only need the qmail process and the qmail-smtpd process Thats all it's that simple Who ever said that configuring qmail was difficult? Willy De la Court Quint NS NV On Saturday, June 09, 2001 01:34, Hank Wethington [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: > > I think my mind is unstable from trying to figure this out on my own. I've > got a main mail server (FreeBSD 4.3/qmail 1.03/vpop/sweb/imap/blah blah > blah) and a second on a separate network (RH Linux 6.2/qmail > 1.03/qmail-pop3d). > > What I'd like to accomplish is if Server A is unavailable, then mail goes to > server B. Once A is back up, server B sends the mail back to server A. Does > this make sense? I know about the MX records in DNS, but how do I make qmail > accept the messages but not deliver them and eventually send them back to > the higher priority server. Man I'm confused. Is this even possible? If its > not why have different MX hosts? If it is, is my brain just too small to > absorb the needed info. Will George Lucas make a decent Star Wars 2 or are > we in for another bad story line? > > Ok.. let me put back on my strait jacket. > > Hank Wethington > Information Logistics > > > www.GoInfoLogistics.com > mailto:info.at.GoInfoLogistics.com > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com> iQA/AwUBOyFuT/4IaGw3x6aJEQIY3ACg5Ng800TSvSAnW24MNimBhe/3hN0An3Ty o8QVTaxyVI4wguaNXqADJR0Y =NBR6 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: backup mail server help
On Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 04:33:49PM -0700, Hank Wethington wrote: > What I'd like to accomplish is if Server A is unavailable, then mail goes to > server B. Once A is back up, server B sends the mail back to server A. Does On server B, add all domains in question to rcpthosts, but NOT to locals or virtualdomains. That's it ;-)) -- * Henning Brauer, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.bsws.de * * Roedingsmarkt 14, 20459 Hamburg, Germany * Unix is very simple, but it takes a genius to understand the simplicity. (Dennis Ritchie)
backup mail server help
I think my mind is unstable from trying to figure this out on my own. I've got a main mail server (FreeBSD 4.3/qmail 1.03/vpop/sweb/imap/blah blah blah) and a second on a separate network (RH Linux 6.2/qmail 1.03/qmail-pop3d). What I'd like to accomplish is if Server A is unavailable, then mail goes to server B. Once A is back up, server B sends the mail back to server A. Does this make sense? I know about the MX records in DNS, but how do I make qmail accept the messages but not deliver them and eventually send them back to the higher priority server. Man I'm confused. Is this even possible? If its not why have different MX hosts? If it is, is my brain just too small to absorb the needed info. Will George Lucas make a decent Star Wars 2 or are we in for another bad story line? Ok.. let me put back on my strait jacket. Hank Wethington Information Logistics www.GoInfoLogistics.com mailto:info.at.GoInfoLogistics.com
Re: Backup mail server.
On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 11:21:57AM +1000, Grant wrote: > I accidentally deleted an email and couldn't find it on the qmail > archives. The question is: > > What do I need to do for a backup mx record to store emails until the > first mx comes back. I put the domain in rcpthosts, but not in > locals, as I want it to store them until the first mx comes back. Was > there anything else I needed to do, because it is bouncing the > emails at the moment, giving a looping error? Sorry for the broad > question, but hopefully the person who answered this for me last time will > know. > Requirements for a proper secondary MX: 1. a primary MX, with a better preference (lower #) 2. a secondary MX, with a worse preference (higher #) 3. domain name in rcpthosts but not locals on the secondary. That's literally it. This should not cause any 'loop' issues -- can you please post the bounce, and the output of qmail-showctl from both servers, plus the results of either 'dig mx yourdomain.example' or 'dnsmx yourdomain.example', where yourdomain.example is the _real name_ of the domain in question. -- Greg White
Backup mail server.
I accidentally deleted an email and couldn't find it on the qmail archives. The question is: What do I need to do for a backup mx record to store emails until the first mx comes back. I put the domain in rcpthosts, but not in locals, as I want it to store them until the first mx comes back. Was there anything else I needed to do, because it is bouncing the emails at the moment, giving a looping error? Sorry for the broad question, but hopefully the person who answered this for me last time will know.
Re: Backup mail server
Ryan Pape <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I'm assuming the best way to implement a backup mail server that will queue > mail in the event of a problem with the best MX would be to set the backup > server as 2nd MX (obviously), and then add all the appropriate domains to > rcpthosts. > > Will that cause mail to be cached automatically, or is it necessary to add > them to smtproutes additionally? Nope, just rcpthosts. The second machine will forward them on to the best-preference MX automatically when it's reachable. Charles -- --- Charles Cazabon<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GPL'ed software available at: http://www.qcc.sk.ca/~charlesc/software/ Any opinions expressed are just that -- my opinions. ---
Backup mail server
I'm assuming the best way to implement a backup mail server that will queue mail in the event of a problem with the best MX would be to set the backup server as 2nd MX (obviously), and then add all the appropriate domains to rcpthosts. Will that cause mail to be cached automatically, or is it necessary to add them to smtproutes additionally? Thanks
Re: Re[2]: backup mail server
Bob Rogers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >But not always. My ISP (which shall remain nameless -- ;-) bounced an >email I sent myself from work after trying to deliver it for less than >an hour. To add insult to injury, the only reason they couldn't deliver >it was because of their own internal outage -- an outage that lasted >five hours. So I am considering an alternate MX myself. (Yes, I know; >a better solution would be to get another ISP.) Another solution is to run your own mailhub pointed to by your own domain name. E.g., I use sill.dyndns.org, which points to my old 60 MHz Pentium running qmail. I don't use my ISP's mailhub at all. As an added benefit, I get to manage the @sill.dyndns.org namespace, including full use of qmail's extension addresses, and an unlimited number of mailboxes. -Dave
Re: Re[2]: backup mail server
From: Andy Bradford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 08:55:46 -0600 Yes seriously. Most MTA's will queue email for at least 3 days, so unless your hardware failure lasts that long then you should be fine. Andy But not always. My ISP (which shall remain nameless -- ;-) bounced an email I sent myself from work after trying to deliver it for less than an hour. To add insult to injury, the only reason they couldn't deliver it was because of their own internal outage -- an outage that lasted five hours. So I am considering an alternate MX myself. (Yes, I know; a better solution would be to get another ISP.) -- Bob Rogers
Re: backup mail server
On Tue, Apr 18, 2000 at 08:55:46AM -0600, Andy Bradford wrote: > Thus said Gabriel Ambuehl on Tue, 18 Apr 2000 14:58:00 +0300: > > > Do you mean this seriously? I can't see a problem with a secondary > > which is using exactly the same config (we normally clone our > > systems as the first one except for the lack of the entries in local > > or virtual... As long as your primary doesn't go any longer than > > just a few minutes, you surely don't need a secondary, but if the > > hardware fails, it's possible that it will be down such long > > (depends highly on the admins, available spare system etc.) that > > some mails bounce... > Yes seriously. Most MTA's will queue email for at least 3 days, so > unless your hardware failure lasts that long then you should be fine. Secondary MX can come in handy when you lose routing to parts of the world, but your secondary MX doesn't and can still talk to you. At one point last year JaNET in the UK lost transatlantic bandwidth (we love you Teleglobe, no really) but my main email address at the time continued to receive mail as the secondary MX was outside JaNET but within the UK. On the other hand I'd be incredibly careful about who I trusted enough to secondary MX a domain for me. J. -- ] http://www.earth.li/~noodles/ [] "It only counts as a lie-in if you [ ] PGP/GPG Key @ keys.pgp.net or [] don't get dressed before tea time." [ ] finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] [] -- Steve Willison [ ] PGP: 4DC4E7FD / GPG: 5B430367 [] [
Re: backup mail server
From: Russell Nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 08:44:39 -0400 (EDT) > I have two mail servers - on is located in a different country - My > question is how do I become a backup for that other server in the event > that it goes down or looses connectivity?? > > I have added entries into DNS so as the two severs are secondary MX's > for each other.. BUT what needs to be done on the qmail side so that it > will accept these messages and queue them until they can be dilivered?? This is a bad idea. Why? Because you're setting yourself up for the situation a friend was just in. His main server went down, and the secondary kicked in. Unfortunately, the secondary server had become misconfigured (or was never configured correctly in the first place) and his email started bouncing. I dunno, I had a case where we were saved by a secondary MX. The main mail server crashed just before a long weekend and wound up being out for a week. Being able to push up the queuelifetime on the secondary MX almost certainly saved mail from bouncing. Naturally we tested the secondary MX failover when we installed it, and we would test it again if we ever changed the configuration. Admittedly this wouldn't happen at a working company where the mail server would be rapidly replaced. But there are lots of other sorts of people on the net. Ian
RE: backup mail server
> I have two mail servers - on is located in a different country - My > question is how do I become a backup for that other server in > the event that it goes down or looses connectivity?? Firstly, consider why you are setting up a secondary. Does it offer any advantages over letting the senders keep mail in their queue? Does it allow mail system maintenance to go without disrupting mail flow? In some cases a secondary offers no tangible benefit, and causes maintenance headaches, which WILL cause mail to bounce if you don't stay on top of it. To do it, however, Add that servers domain to /var/qmail/control/rcpthosts, but make sure that it is not in locals or anything like that. Send mail* to that domain via your mail server to make sure you're configured correctly. Set up the MX records for the domain so that your server is a listed MX server, albeit with a lower priority (lower priority == higher number). An option is to use smtproutes to hardwire the forwarding, instead of trusting DNS records to be correct. The plus is that someone can mess up DNS and your secondary will still forward; the minus is that if you want to change your primary mail server you have to remember to do so in two places, which can create maintenance problems. * An easy way to test is to telnet to port 25 of the secondary from a remote location and send mail by hand. That means using SMTP commands HELO, MAIL FROM, RCPT TO, and DATA. The archives of this list are full of examples. -- gowen -- Greg Owen -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: backup mail server
> This is a bad idea. Why? Because you're setting yourself up for the > situation a friend was just in. His main server went down, and the > secondary kicked in. Unfortunately, the secondary server had become > misconfigured (or was never configured correctly in the first place) > and his email started bouncing. Your friend's problem was not that he had a secondary server. Your friend's problem was that he had a misconfigured secondary. If we discouraged people from running software that they often misconfigured, this list would be a dead dull desert with wind and dust devils floating through. If you're going to run a [smtp server / smtp secondary / dns server / dns secondary / web server / pop server / server / unix machine / windows machine / tonka truck ] then you've either got to learn to do it right or live with your mistakes. Every one on this list who knows how to do the above got there by doing it, making mistakes, learning from them, and doing it right. Some people probably even arranged that their mistakes be in testing setups rather than live. Having said that... splitting control of primary/secondary between two people is a setup that does ask for mistakes to be made. And handing off secondary to your ISP is asking to be shot in the head. -- gowen -- Greg Owen -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re[2]: backup mail server
Thus said Gabriel Ambuehl on Tue, 18 Apr 2000 14:58:00 +0300: > Do you mean this seriously? I can't see a problem with a secondary > which is using exactly the same config (we normally clone our systems > as the first one except for the lack of the entries in local or > virtual... As long as your primary doesn't go any longer than just a > few minutes, you surely don't need a secondary, but if the hardware > fails, it's possible that it will be down such long (depends highly on > the admins, available spare system etc.) that some mails bounce... Yes seriously. Most MTA's will queue email for at least 3 days, so unless your hardware failure lasts that long then you should be fine. Andy -- +== Andy == TiK: garbaglio ==+ |Linux is about freedom of choice| +== http://www.xmission.com/~bradipo/ ===+ PGP signature
Re[2]: backup mail server
> This is a bad idea. Why? Because you're setting yourself up for the > situation a friend was just in. His main server went down, and the > secondary kicked in. Unfortunately, the secondary server had become > misconfigured (or was never configured correctly in the first place) > and his email started bouncing. Do you mean this seriously? I can't see a problem with a secondary which is using exactly the same config (we normally clone our systems as the first one except for the lack of the entries in local or virtual... As long as your primary doesn't go any longer than just a few minutes, you surely don't need a secondary, but if the hardware fails, it's possible that it will be down such long (depends highly on the admins, available spare system etc.) that some mails bounce... Best regards, Gabriel
Re: backup mail server
TAG writes: > I have two mail servers - on is located in a different country - My > question is how do I become a backup for that other server in the event > that it goes down or looses connectivity?? > > I have added entries into DNS so as the two severs are secondary MX's > for each other.. BUT what needs to be done on the qmail side so that it > will accept these messages and queue them until they can be dilivered?? This is a bad idea. Why? Because you're setting yourself up for the situation a friend was just in. His main server went down, and the secondary kicked in. Unfortunately, the secondary server had become misconfigured (or was never configured correctly in the first place) and his email started bouncing. Overall, he would have been better off without a secondary MX server. His mail still wouldn't have been delivered (a secondary doesn't deliver the mail, it just re-queues it), but neither would it have bounced either. -- -russ nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://russnelson.com Crynwr sells support for free software | PGPok | "Ask not what your country 521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315 268 1925 voice | can force other people to Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | +1 315 268 9201 FAX | do for you..." -Perry M.
Re: backup mail server
On Tue, Apr 18, 2000 at 09:01:30AM +0200, TAG wrote: > Hi, > > I have two mail servers - on is located in a different country - My > question is how do I become a backup for that other server in the event > that it goes down or looses connectivity?? > > I have added entries into DNS so as the two severs are secondary MX's > for each other.. BUT what needs to be done on the qmail side so that it > will accept these messages and queue them until they can be dilivered?? echo hisdomain.com >> /var/qmail/control/rcpthosts Greetz, Peter. -- Peter van Dijk - student/sysadmin/ircoper/madly in love/pretending coder | | 'C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; | C++ makes it harder, but when you do it blows your whole leg off.' | Bjarne Stroustrup, Inventor of C++
backup mail server
Hi, I have two mail servers - on is located in a different country - My question is how do I become a backup for that other server in the event that it goes down or looses connectivity?? I have added entries into DNS so as the two severs are secondary MX's for each other.. BUT what needs to be done on the qmail side so that it will accept these messages and queue them until they can be dilivered?? Thanks Tonino
Re: Backup mail server, MANY MAIL servers
On Fri, May 21, 1999 at 05:44:39PM +0300, ivan wrote: > hi, > > How can I setup a QMAIL as a backup mail server, what I have in mind ?! > > I have other email server (under NT) and I want if it is down the second mail > server (in this case QMAIL) to recieve and send mail and second, users still to > have access to their POP3 mail boxes. > If this is not posiblle with different mail servers then how with 2 QMAIL > servers. What about of synchronizing them if they use a separate storage space > (2 diff. HDD on 2 diff. computers.). > What about many mail servers ?!?! One way is to have an nfs server and two qmail servers. Put all the user maildirs on the nfs server and mount them on the two mail servers. Each mail server should have a qmail queue installation on thier local disk. Ken Jones Inter7 http://www.inter7.com/qmailadmin/ - web admin of vchkpw virtual domains
Backup mail server, MANY MAIL servers
hi, How can I setup a QMAIL as a backup mail server, what I have in mind ?! I have other email server (under NT) and I want if it is down the second mail server (in this case QMAIL) to recieve and send mail and second, users still to have access to their POP3 mail boxes. If this is not posiblle with different mail servers then how with 2 QMAIL servers. What about of synchronizing them if they use a separate storage space (2 diff. HDD on 2 diff. computers.). What about many mail servers ?!?! Any thoughts, proposals, opinions . are welcome. Thanx alot in advance = [EMAIL PROTECTED] =
