Re: Flame (Dont read if you hate this like I do)
On Wed, 6 Sep 2000, Leslie Bester [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I still await the days when one can post a legitimate question to a list, without receiving a barrage of out of context messages with personal opinions, and RTFM a**hole, especially when they send them to the list. Perhaps this is why some lists are moderated. Back in the day... you knew who was out there. Basically, it was universities and a few high tech businesses here and there. People respected others -- or at least dirty laundry wasn't spread out all over. Anyone else remember when the dot-com to dot-edu ratio was reversed? These days, kiddies treat their knowledge of *anything* as somthing to use against you. Perhaps they know only one thing, but holy-hell hope that you don't even let them think that you don't just happen to know this one thing that they know, or else you'll undoubtedly have it handed to you, if you know what I mean. Example: Ask someone why cnames aren't allowed in MX records. You'll get insulted, told that you're stupid... you'll have dozens of people telling you to read some FAQ or, if they're clever and/or have heard it before, they might even go so far as to tell you read some RFC... but, it seems to me, that 99.999_% of the people out there don't know why. I'm not going to enlighten this list (because there are too many closed minded people on it), because there are already those here who are going to flame me and attack me back... get over it. Try thinking for yourself for once, eh? I'd tell you RTFM, but, alas, there's no FM for you. It is amusing when kiddies tell you to RTFM on an app that YOU wrote and that YOU wrote the FM or, kiddies try to give you back some super-elite code that does something neat, but they want something special in return -- when it's code that you're written... Anyway ... back to the point: The simple point is, we could all simply share and help each other and instead of bashing each newbie that comes along, simply be nice and show, by example, how to act. We're all different, and the world is only getting more crowded. The "kids" these days are already a whole heck of a lot more violent and far less tolerant... and having a global communications medium only seems to let the negatives become highly visible. Scott
Re: Flame (Dont read if you hate this like I do)
"Scott D. Yelich" wrote: We're all different, and the world is only getting more crowded. The "kids" these days are already a whole heck of a lot more violent and far less tolerant... and having a global communications medium only seems to let the negatives become highly visible. But you know what? I find I can be a whole lot more effective nice guy =) I like helping people, and with this medium I can help more of them. =) -Stephen-
Flame (Dont read if you hate this like I do)
Please excuse my rash comments, but yes I'd like to bite off my nose to spite my face. I'm quite surprised that after joining the list about... 1 hour ago? That I raised the (over-used) Signal to noise ratio. For anyone who despises the seemingly inevitable flame wars that occur on technical mailing lists, I apologize for being what seems to be a catalyst. I still await the days when one can post a legitimate question to a list, without receiving a barrage of out of context messages with personal opinions, and RTFM a**hole, especially when they send them to the list.Perhaps this is why some lists are moderated. I was hoping that this list for tech support would be above the level of your typical IRC #linux channel, but from what I've seen, it hasn't. Perhaps the people who have taken it upon themselves to respond to me as if I were some belligerent idiot should try to realize that everyone is not as smart as they are, or experienced as they are. Frankly, coming from a very basic sendmail background, the url that points to the FAQ would make very little sense to anyone reading it, especially when they are not familiar with a product they've just downloaded. If it wasn't for the apparent O'Riely(sp) book in the works (or is it done?), I would cease to use the product based on the TONE of the support I've received so far.. It seems like the list (at least this early in the morning) is stockedby a bunch of know-it-all teenagers with a severe lack of etiquette. So to end, I thought the list was a forum for asking questions and getting answers.. not getting slammed. To all the nice people, who will wake this morning to read all this crap, I'll apologize yet again for bringing the crap users on this list out of the wood work. Les.
Re: Flame (Dont read if you hate this like I do)
* Leslie Bester [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [000906 05:09]: You call that a flame? You've got to be joking... I'd like to bite off my nose to spite my face. Why don't you just blow out your brains and make this all end? I'm quite surprised that after joining the list about... 1 hour ago? Interesting use of grammar here. Tell me, Leslie, are you intellectually challenged or just dumb as shit? Apart from that: minimum lurking period: two weeks. Not 1 hour. For anyone who despises the seemingly inevitable flame wars that occur on technical mailing lists, I apologize for being what seems to be a catalyst. You're not a catalyst, Leslie. Catalysts do something useful. You just suck. And flamewars are quite evitable: kill all lusers, let God sort'em out. Easy as that. I still await the days when one can post a legitimate question to a list, without receiving a barrage of out of context messages with personal opinions, and RTFM a**hole, especially when they send them to the list. A question covered by the FAQ is not legitimate, it's just stupid. And noone told you to read the fucking manual, asshole. I don't even recall calling you an asshole - that was you in a PM IIRC. Perhaps this is why some lists are moderated. Not really, Leslie. Lists are moderated to keep idiots asking FAQs out. I was hoping that this list for tech support would be above the level of your typical IRC #linux channel, but from what I've seen, it hasn't. So that's where you got your technical expertise, eh? IRC... Tell you what, Leslie: you got some things the *wrong* way. 1. This is not a list for tech support. On a good day, it is a list where a polite and informed question about a generic problem is answered by some really competent people. On a bad day, I answer your questions. 2, This is *not* IRC. Read the FAQ, RTFM, read Dave Sill's great LWQ. If that does not help, crawl back under the rock you came from and use MS Exchange. Eh. Wait. You're using MS Exchange. Get a bigger rock. Perhaps the people who have taken it upon themselves to respond to me as if I were some belligerent idiot should try to realize that everyone is not as smart as they are, or experienced as they are. 1. Noone ever called you belligerent. 2. Stating the painfully obvious, hmmm? Frankly, coming from a very basic sendmail background, the url that points to the FAQ would make very little sense to anyone reading it, especially when they are not familiar with a product they've just downloaded. Well, great. So you dl s0m3 k00! h4x0R $tuFf and expect it to work out of the box. When - surprise, surprise - it doesn't, you don't even bother to understand it. Then, when you get a correct and exhaustive answer within 5 minutes, you don't read it but start whining. Face it, Leslie, you *are* an idiot. Not a belligerent idiot, but just Joe Random Idiot. It seems like the list (at least this early in the morning) is stocked by a bunch of know-it-all teenagers with a severe lack of etiquette. Nahhh... You don't leave an impression of knowing *any*thing, Leslie. So to end, I thought the list was a forum for asking questions and getting answers.. not getting slammed. No, Leslie. It's a forum to make yourself an idiot by not reading the basic information, using crappy software and whining a lot. Some people are only alive because it's illegal to kill them.
Re: Flame (Dont read if you hate this like I do)
In the immortal words of Robin S. Socha ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): * Leslie Bester [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [000906 05:09]: You call that a flame? You've got to be joking... (90+ lines of truly uninspired ad hominem attacks deleted for brevity.) Well congratulations. On reading Leslie's original post, I found myself thinking that "know-it-all teenagers" was a bit over-the-top as a complaint, but you've managed not only to make it stick, but to make it seem like a restrained, cautious judgement. I have a newsflash for you: ALT.FLAME IS THATAWAY your local nntp server If you want to engage in half-assed adolescent chest-beating under the deluded impression that it somehow makes you look wiser, smarter, cooler or in any other way better than your putative target, please avail yourself of one of the countless venues designed for exactly that purpose. In the meantime, please do yourself and everybody around you a massive favor and disabuse yourself of the notion that being snide and condescending to newbies on informational mailing lists is in any way helpful to you, them, or the list in general. You are not "educating newbies" by doing this. You are not engaging in "tough love". You are most certainly not actually "encouraging people to help themselves"" I'm sure you have some other lame justification you are undoubtedly going to throw at us for your pathetic outburst. Please, save it. You are just being a putz. (Look it up.) If you only want to hear questions from people who already know as much about qmail as your estimable self, please emulate an intelligent person for the 30 seconds it will take you to unsubscribe from the general-purpose mailing list, and find one more targeted to your needs. Every time some self-appointed weasel like you decides to strike a blow for some warped notion of truth and righteousness by stomping all over some innocent newbie, that's ten times harder actual professionals like myself have to work to get community-supported software adopted inside real corporations. Congratulations. -n [EMAIL PROTECTED] "A Force Recon colonel once told me, "If it's a stupid idea, and it works, it must not be a stupid idea." (--John Frazier) http://www.blank.org/memory/
