Re: [qmailtoaster] Help regarding mail relay

[Eric Shubert]

António Pedro Lima wrote:
> On Wed, 14 May 2008 20:58:43 +0200, Marc Rietman  wrote:
>> Jake Vickers wrote:
>>> My reply was based on experiences with my own servers and those that
>>> I've worked on for other people/companies.  The RFC is great and all
>>> but as you said there are no obligations.  When it comes down to it,
>>> we follow the rules that the "biggies" such as AOL, Yahoo, Google,
>>> Microsoft, etc. set.  I have a couple domains that have 3 MX records
>>> and I see mail delivered to all 3 machines regardless of priority or
>>> whether or not the others are answering.  As far as I know that
>>> particular RFC has not been superceded but I'd say that roughly
>>> (without actually creating some boiled down metrics) 70%-80% of the
>>> servers that send me message actually follow that particular one.  AOL
>>> has been seen delivering to all 3 of my MX records regardless of
>>> machine status.  There's a couple other broadband companies that
>>> operate in the same manner that I've seen.
>> 
>> Ok, that clears things up. It's obviously the usual 'standard' which we
>> 'all' follow...
>> 
>> Thanks for the answer, Marc
> 
> This is something that worries me...
> Setting a secondary mail server for backup purposes means that messages will 
> be received in duplicate in many cases?
> I could handle that, but for many users would (for sure) complain about it :(
> 
> Or am I confusing this matter?

Yes, you're confusing the matter. ;)

When there's a secondary server, the message will only be sent to one *or*
the other, not both. Once it is sent successfully to one or the other, the
sending server quits. At least it's supposed to. ;)

-- 
-Eric 'shubes'

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Re: [qmailtoaster] Help regarding mail relay

[António Pedro Lima]

 On Wed, 14 May 2008 20:58:43 +0200, Marc Rietman  wrote: > Jake
Vickers wrote: >> My reply was based on experiences with my own
servers and those that >> I've worked on for other people/companies. 
The RFC is great and all >> but as you said there are no obligations. 
When it comes down to it, >> we follow the rules that the "biggies"
such as AOL, Yahoo, Google, >> Microsoft, etc. set.  I have a couple
domains that have 3 MX records >> and I see mail delivered to all 3
machines regardless of priority or >> whether or not the others are
answering.  As far as I know that >> particular RFC has not been
superceded but I'd say that roughly >> (without actually creating
some boiled down metrics) 70%-80% of the >> servers that send me
message actually follow that particular one.  AOL >> has been seen
delivering to all 3 of my MX records regardless of >> machine status.
 There's a couple other broadband companies that >> operate in the
same manner that I've seen. >  > Ok, that clears
things up. It's
obviously the usual 'standard' which we > 'all' follow... >  > Thanks
for the answer, Marc  

 This is something that worries me... Setting a secondary mail server
for backup purposes means that messages will be received in duplicate
in many cases? I could handle that, but for many users would (for
sure) complain about it :(  

 Or am I confusing this matter?  

 Regards,  

 António Lima  

Re: [qmailtoaster] Help regarding mail relay

[Marc Rietman]

Jake Vickers wrote:
My reply was based on experiences with my own servers and those that 
I've worked on for other people/companies.  The RFC is great and all 
but as you said there are no obligations.  When it comes down to it, 
we follow the rules that the "biggies" such as AOL, Yahoo, Google, 
Microsoft, etc. set.  I have a couple domains that have 3 MX records 
and I see mail delivered to all 3 machines regardless of priority or 
whether or not the others are answering.  As far as I know that 
particular RFC has not been superceded but I'd say that roughly 
(without actually creating some boiled down metrics) 70%-80% of the 
servers that send me message actually follow that particular one.  AOL 
has been seen delivering to all 3 of my MX records regardless of 
machine status.  There's a couple other broadband companies that 
operate in the same manner that I've seen.


Ok, that clears things up. It's obviously the usual 'standard' which we 
'all' follow...


Thanks for the answer, Marc

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Re: [qmailtoaster] Help regarding mail relay

[Jake Vickers]

Marc Rietman wrote:


I'm fairly new to this list (didn't administer my own mailserver for a 
few years) but have done a few qmail installations previously (nothing 
comparable to most people on the list probably though). During my 
education and after that in 'real life', I've always been told that 
the priority in the DNS record is used to determine to which server to 
send first. I've had a look at (what I believe is) the current RFC 
document about DNS MX records, which can be found here: 
ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc2821.txt. If I read it correctly 
the priority number should be used to determine the order in which the 
mailservers are to be tried.


Welcome to the list! Always nice to see a new face. Yes, the priority 
number is supposed to be used to determine delivery preference.




I know that a RFC is only that (no obligations) and I know that 
spammers sometimes (on purpose) use the lower priority MX record to 
circumvent graylisting and so on. But in principle, the primary server 
should have been used in the described situation (assuming there was 
no connection error somewhere in between).


Could you tell me on what information your reply is based? Perhaps the 
RFC I mentioned is superceded... I'm always willing to learn that I've 
been taught incorrectly. It wouldn't be the first time it happened...

Kind regards,


My reply was based on experiences with my own servers and those that 
I've worked on for other people/companies.  The RFC is great and all but 
as you said there are no obligations.  When it comes down to it, we 
follow the rules that the "biggies" such as AOL, Yahoo, Google, 
Microsoft, etc. set.  I have a couple domains that have 3 MX records and 
I see mail delivered to all 3 machines regardless of priority or whether 
or not the others are answering.  As far as I know that particular RFC 
has not been superceded but I'd say that roughly (without actually 
creating some boiled down metrics) 70%-80% of the servers that send me 
message actually follow that particular one.  AOL has been seen 
delivering to all 3 of my MX records regardless of machine status.  
There's a couple other broadband companies that operate in the same 
manner that I've seen.



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Re: [qmailtoaster] Help regarding mail relay

[Marc Rietman]

Jake Vickers wrote:

senthil vel wrote:
Thanks Jake. But the problem is, the primary server was not down. And 
why the local mail went to the secondary server even the primary 
server is alive. Please guide me.




If you have 2 MX records, mail will go to both. Some mailers (other 
people sending to you) will send to the lowest MX, others will send to 
the highest. You have no control over their mail server and who it 
decides to send emails to.



Hi Jake,

I'm fairly new to this list (didn't administer my own mailserver for a 
few years) but have done a few qmail installations previously (nothing 
comparable to most people on the list probably though). During my 
education and after that in 'real life', I've always been told that the 
priority in the DNS record is used to determine to which server to send 
first. I've had a look at (what I believe is) the current RFC document 
about DNS MX records, which can be found here: 
ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc2821.txt. If I read it correctly 
the priority number should be used to determine the order in which the 
mailservers are to be tried.


Here is the part from the RFC which mentions prioritizing MX records 
)chapter 5):
Multiple MX records contain a preference indication that MUST be used in 
sorting (see below). Lower numbers are more preferred than higher ones. 
If there are multiple destinations with the same preference and there is 
no clear reason to favor one (e.g., by recognition of an easily-reached 
address), then the sender-SMTP MUST randomize them to spread the load 
across multiple mail exchangers for a specific organization.


I know that a RFC is only that (no obligations) and I know that spammers 
sometimes (on purpose) use the lower priority MX record to circumvent 
graylisting and so on. But in principle, the primary server should have 
been used in the described situation (assuming there was no connection 
error somewhere in between).


Could you tell me on what information your reply is based? Perhaps the 
RFC I mentioned is superceded... I'm always willing to learn that I've 
been taught incorrectly. It wouldn't be the first time it happened... 


Kind regards,

Marc Rietman


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Re: [qmailtoaster] Help regarding mail relay

[senthil vel]

Oh...Ok. Ok...Thank a ton Jack.Now i am clear.

On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 4:34 PM, Jake Vickers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  senthil vel wrote:
>
> Thanks Jake. But the problem is, the primary server was not down. And why
> the local mail went to the secondary server even the primary server is
> alive. Please guide me.
>
>
> If you have 2 MX records, mail will go to both. Some mailers (other people
> sending to you) will send to the lowest MX, others will send to the highest.
> You have no control over their mail server and who it decides to send emails
> to.
>
>


-- 
Thanks and Regards,
S.Senthilvel,
Webindia Internet Services
Chennai - 600 029, India.

Re: [qmailtoaster] Help regarding mail relay

[Jake Vickers]

senthil vel wrote:
Thanks Jake. But the problem is, the primary server was not down. And 
why the local mail went to the secondary server even the primary 
server is alive. Please guide me.




If you have 2 MX records, mail will go to both. Some mailers (other 
people sending to you) will send to the lowest MX, others will send to 
the highest. You have no control over their mail server and who it 
decides to send emails to.

Re: [qmailtoaster] Help regarding mail relay

[senthil vel]

Thanks Jake. But the problem is, the primary server was not down. And why
the local mail went to the secondary server even the primary server is
alive. Please guide me.

On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 4:05 PM, Jake Vickers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  senthil vel wrote:
>
>
> Hi List,
>I am having a client. At first his domain was in a server, in
> which, send mail was running.
>
> if we put the command, host -t mx client.com,
> it will show,
> client.com mail is handled by 10 sendmail.one.com
> client.com mail is handled by 20 sendmail.two.com
>
> Then we moved the domain client.com to qmail server which is having
> qmail-toaster
> now if we put host -t mx client.com,
>
> it will show
> client.com mail is handled by 10 qmail.one.com
> client.com mail is handled by 20 sendmail.two.com
>
>
> Now the problem is, one mail from the [EMAIL PROTECTED] to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> bounced. It is bounced from the server sendmail.two.com(Secondary MX)
> telling that
>
> <<< 553 5.3.0 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>... nouser No such user
> 550 5.1.1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>... User unknown
>
> Now i removed the secondary mx record. But this is not a solution. My
> doubt is, Why a local mail is bounced from secondary server?
> The user used outlook, so he may use old settings. Because the domain is
> not completely deleted in the old server. But He is telling that few mails
> to user2 only bouncing. Please Please clarify.
>
>
> The user cannot send emails through the secondary server unless the
> accounts exist there. He will only be able to send emails through the server
> that actually has his account.
> If you want the secondary server to be a caching mail server for incoming
> mail you just have to add the domain to the rcpthosts file - look at the
> wiki, there's instructions on how to do this.
> For both the primary and secondary servers to allow email to be sent
> through them you'd need to set up a cluster type environment and I'd suggest
> you hire one of the consultants listed in the wiki:
> http://wiki.qmailtoaster.com/index.php/Main_Page#Additional_Resources
>
>


-- 
Thanks and Regards,
S.Senthilvel,
Webindia Internet Services
Chennai - 600 029, India.

Re: [qmailtoaster] Help regarding mail relay

[Jake Vickers]

senthil vel wrote:


Hi List,
   I am having a client. At first his domain was in a server, 
in which, send mail was running.


if we put the command, host -t mx client.com ,
it will show,
client.com  mail is handled by 10 sendmail.one.com 

client.com  mail is handled by 20 sendmail.two.com 



Then we moved the domain client.com  to qmail 
server which is having qmail-toaster

now if we put host -t mx client.com ,

it will show
client.com  mail is handled by 10 qmail.one.com 

client.com  mail is handled by 20 sendmail.two.com 




Now the problem is, one mail from the [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 get bounced. It is bounced from the server 
sendmail.two.com(Secondary MX) telling that


<<< 553 5.3.0 <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >... nouser 
No such user

550 5.1.1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >... User unknown

Now i removed the secondary mx record. But this is not a solution. My 
doubt is, Why a local mail is bounced from secondary server?
The user used outlook, so he may use old settings. Because the domain 
is not completely deleted in the old server. But He is telling that 
few mails to user2 only bouncing. Please Please clarify.


The user cannot send emails through the secondary server unless the 
accounts exist there. He will only be able to send emails through the 
server that actually has his account.
If you want the secondary server to be a caching mail server for 
incoming mail you just have to add the domain to the rcpthosts file - 
look at the wiki, there's instructions on how to do this.
For both the primary and secondary servers to allow email to be sent 
through them you'd need to set up a cluster type environment and I'd 
suggest you hire one of the consultants listed in the wiki: 
http://wiki.qmailtoaster.com/index.php/Main_Page#Additional_Resources

[qmailtoaster] Help regarding mail relay

[senthil vel]

Hi List,
   I am having a client. At first his domain was in a server, in
which, send mail was running.

if we put the command, host -t mx client.com,
it will show,
client.com mail is handled by 10 sendmail.one.com
client.com mail is handled by 20 sendmail.two.com

Then we moved the domain client.com to qmail server which is having
qmail-toaster
now if we put host -t mx client.com,

it will show
client.com mail is handled by 10 qmail.one.com
client.com mail is handled by 20 sendmail.two.com


Now the problem is, one mail from the [EMAIL PROTECTED] to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] bounced. It is bounced from the server
sendmail.two.com(Secondary MX)
telling that

<<< 553 5.3.0 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>... nouser No such user
550 5.1.1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>... User unknown

Now i removed the secondary mx record. But this is not a solution. My doubt
is, Why a local mail is bounced from secondary server?
The user used outlook, so he may use old settings. Because the domain is not
completely deleted in the old server. But He is telling that few mails to
user2 only bouncing. Please Please clarify.
-- 
Thanks and Regards,
S.Senthilvel,