Re: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions

[Jim Hearne]

I had the same problem when i put Willwood 4 pot calipers on my 2+2, that 
has the early brake setup.


There are 2 different brake pedals with the hole for the bar that goes 
through the bulkhead in different places, one gives you more pressure on the 
master cylinder but at the expense of more pedal travel.

I may have a picture somewhere.
I drilled another hole in the already better option pedal , even higher up, 
this helped with the pressure but gave more pedal travel.


It certainly stops now, i did a couple of track days in it.
I also have a feeling that the brake pads either glazed or weren't the best 
material choice, i bought another set of a more road spec but never got 
around to fitting them to see if they made a difference.


I thought i may have been loosing travel with the servo brackets flexing so 
i plated in the open sides and strengthened to ends, but this made no 
difference.
You can also adjust the pushrod in the servo to remove any play before the 
pushrod contacts the end of the master cylinder.
But, be careful with this, i got it too close and it wasn't letting the 
master cylinder fully retract.
This had the effect that as the fluid got hot it gradually applied the 
brakes, not so good.


What bore is your master cylinder ?, it should be stamped on the side.

I know anything with a bias bar won't pass an IVA test unless it's welded up 
but not sure if it's an MOT failure.

Also, without a servo you will need some muscles.

Jim




-Original Message- 
From: 'Bob Craig' via Quantum Owners Group

Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 5:39 PM
To: Quantum Owners Group
Subject: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions

After upgrading my already upgraded 2+2 brakes from Cosworth single piston 
calipers and huge discs to a much lighter Hispec billet 4 pot system, I 
can't get a decent brake pedal and have next to no braking force. I purged 
all the old brake fluid and refilled with dot5.1, pressure bled everything. 
I'm thinking that my master cylinder may be faulty and just looking at 
options. I know the later type cylinder is a bit like rocking horse poo 
these days and if going to the extent of changing, I'd rather have a more 
performance focused set up.
Has anyone fitted the Burton Power bias assembly. It does away with the 
standard servo and master cylinder.


https://www.burtonpower.com/adjustable-bias-brake-assy-ford-fiesta-mk1-mk2-mk3-brk061.html

Bob

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Re: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions

[Darren Siepka]

Whilst comparing setups for my swap I wondered how much effort we loose in
the plastic bushes too, especially at the servo end with the shortest arm.
The mg crossbar has needle roller bearings supporting both ends of the
crossbar! This will surely help frictional losses.i wonder if similar could
be done for the original fiesta setup?

Darren

On Mon, 25 Mar 2019, 09:13 Jim Hearne,  wrote:

> I had the same problem when i put Willwood 4 pot calipers on my 2+2, that
> has the early brake setup.
>
> There are 2 different brake pedals with the hole for the bar that goes
> through the bulkhead in different places, one gives you more pressure on
> the
> master cylinder but at the expense of more pedal travel.
> I may have a picture somewhere.
> I drilled another hole in the already better option pedal , even higher
> up,
> this helped with the pressure but gave more pedal travel.
>
> It certainly stops now, i did a couple of track days in it.
> I also have a feeling that the brake pads either glazed or weren't the
> best
> material choice, i bought another set of a more road spec but never got
> around to fitting them to see if they made a difference.
>
> I thought i may have been loosing travel with the servo brackets flexing
> so
> i plated in the open sides and strengthened to ends, but this made no
> difference.
> You can also adjust the pushrod in the servo to remove any play before the
> pushrod contacts the end of the master cylinder.
> But, be careful with this, i got it too close and it wasn't letting the
> master cylinder fully retract.
> This had the effect that as the fluid got hot it gradually applied the
> brakes, not so good.
>
> What bore is your master cylinder ?, it should be stamped on the side.
>
> I know anything with a bias bar won't pass an IVA test unless it's welded
> up
> but not sure if it's an MOT failure.
> Also, without a servo you will need some muscles.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: 'Bob Craig' via Quantum Owners Group
> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 5:39 PM
> To: Quantum Owners Group
> Subject: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions
>
> After upgrading my already upgraded 2+2 brakes from Cosworth single piston
> calipers and huge discs to a much lighter Hispec billet 4 pot system, I
> can't get a decent brake pedal and have next to no braking force. I purged
> all the old brake fluid and refilled with dot5.1, pressure bled
> everything.
> I'm thinking that my master cylinder may be faulty and just looking at
> options. I know the later type cylinder is a bit like rocking horse poo
> these days and if going to the extent of changing, I'd rather have a more
> performance focused set up.
> Has anyone fitted the Burton Power bias assembly. It does away with the
> standard servo and master cylinder.
>
>
> https://www.burtonpower.com/adjustable-bias-brake-assy-ford-fiesta-mk1-mk2-mk3-brk061.html
>
> Bob
>
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>
> IMPORTANT NOTE: All information presented herewith is provided on an "As
> Is"
> basis, without warranty or the implication thereof. Neither the Quantum
> Owners Club nor the individuals associated with the Quantum Owners Club or
> in the preparation of the above information shall have any liability to
> any
> person or entity with respect to liability, loss, or damage caused or
> alleged to be caused directly or indirectly by the instructions contained
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> IMPORTANT NOTE: All information presented herewith is provided on an "As
> Is" basis, without warranty or the implication thereof. Neither the Quantum
> Owners Club nor the individuals associated with the Quantum Owners Club or
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Re: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions

[Jim Hearne]

I guess it may loose a bit in the bushes, mine were all new and smeared with 
moly grease.

Jim



From: Darren Siepka 
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2019 9:27 AM
To: quantumowners@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions

Whilst comparing setups for my swap I wondered how much effort we loose in the 
plastic bushes too, especially at the servo end with the shortest arm. The mg 
crossbar has needle roller bearings supporting both ends of the crossbar! This 
will surely help frictional losses.i wonder if similar could be done for the 
original fiesta setup?  

Darren

On Mon, 25 Mar 2019, 09:13 Jim Hearne,  wrote:

  I had the same problem when i put Willwood 4 pot calipers on my 2+2, that 
  has the early brake setup.

  There are 2 different brake pedals with the hole for the bar that goes 
  through the bulkhead in different places, one gives you more pressure on the 
  master cylinder but at the expense of more pedal travel.
  I may have a picture somewhere.
  I drilled another hole in the already better option pedal , even higher up, 
  this helped with the pressure but gave more pedal travel.

  It certainly stops now, i did a couple of track days in it.
  I also have a feeling that the brake pads either glazed or weren't the best 
  material choice, i bought another set of a more road spec but never got 
  around to fitting them to see if they made a difference.

  I thought i may have been loosing travel with the servo brackets flexing so 
  i plated in the open sides and strengthened to ends, but this made no 
  difference.
  You can also adjust the pushrod in the servo to remove any play before the 
  pushrod contacts the end of the master cylinder.
  But, be careful with this, i got it too close and it wasn't letting the 
  master cylinder fully retract.
  This had the effect that as the fluid got hot it gradually applied the 
  brakes, not so good.

  What bore is your master cylinder ?, it should be stamped on the side.

  I know anything with a bias bar won't pass an IVA test unless it's welded up 
  but not sure if it's an MOT failure.
  Also, without a servo you will need some muscles.

  Jim




  -Original Message- 
  From: 'Bob Craig' via Quantum Owners Group
  Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 5:39 PM
  To: Quantum Owners Group
  Subject: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions

  After upgrading my already upgraded 2+2 brakes from Cosworth single piston 
  calipers and huge discs to a much lighter Hispec billet 4 pot system, I 
  can't get a decent brake pedal and have next to no braking force. I purged 
  all the old brake fluid and refilled with dot5.1, pressure bled everything. 
  I'm thinking that my master cylinder may be faulty and just looking at 
  options. I know the later type cylinder is a bit like rocking horse poo 
  these days and if going to the extent of changing, I'd rather have a more 
  performance focused set up.
  Has anyone fitted the Burton Power bias assembly. It does away with the 
  standard servo and master cylinder.

  
https://www.burtonpower.com/adjustable-bias-brake-assy-ford-fiesta-mk1-mk2-mk3-brk061.html

  Bob

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  basis, without warranty or the implication thereof. Neither the Quantum 
  Owners Club nor the individuals associated with the Quantum Owners Club or 
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  alleged to be caused directly or indirectly by the instructions contained 
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preparation of the 

Re: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions

['Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners Group]

Hi Martin,
Not sure about the areas but the Cosworth calipers are certainly bigger than 
the original XR2 ones were and worked ok. The Hispec 4 pots are smaller 
diameter but spread over a larger pad area to give more even pressure. 

Bob

Sent from my iPad

> On 24 Mar 2019, at 22:53, Susan and Martin Scott 
>  wrote:
> 
> Ignoring the fluid change. What is the combined area of the pistons 
> compared to the previous single ones?  I may know an alternative, but it 
> depends what the requirements are. It could be that a larger bore master 
> cylinder is needed, but some dimensions will be needed to calculate.
> Martin
> - Original Message - From: "'Bob Craig' via Quantum Owners Group" 
> 
> To: "Quantum Owners Group" 
> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 5:39 PM
> Subject: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions
> 
> 
> After upgrading my already upgraded 2+2 brakes from Cosworth single piston 
> calipers and huge discs to a much lighter Hispec billet 4 pot system, I can't 
> get a decent brake pedal and have next to no braking force. I purged all the 
> old brake fluid and refilled with dot5.1, pressure bled everything. I'm 
> thinking that my master cylinder may be faulty and just looking at options. I 
> know the later type cylinder is a bit like rocking horse poo these days and 
> if going to the extent of changing, I'd rather have a more performance 
> focused set up.
> Has anyone fitted the Burton Power bias assembly. It does away with the 
> standard servo and master cylinder.
> 
> https://www.burtonpower.com/adjustable-bias-brake-assy-ford-fiesta-mk1-mk2-mk3-brk061.html
> 
> Bob
> 
> -- 
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> 
> IMPORTANT NOTE: All information presented herewith is provided on an "As Is" 
> basis, without warranty or the implication thereof. Neither the Quantum 
> Owners Club nor the individuals associated with the Quantum Owners Club or in 
> the preparation of the above information shall have any liability to any 
> person or entity with respect to liability, loss, or damage caused or alleged 
> to be caused directly or indirectly by the instructions contained within this 
> or related message(s).
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caused directly or indirectly by the 

Re: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions

[Darren Siepka]

Were they single pot escort / Sierra 4x4 cosworth or 2wd Sierra 4pot
cosworth calipers?
I have the 4x4 single pot front with Peugeot single pot rears on my saloon
( this is with the current escort MC)

On Mon, 25 Mar 2019, 13:13 'Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners Group, <
quantumowners@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Hi Martin,
> Not sure about the areas but the Cosworth calipers are certainly bigger
> than the original XR2 ones were and worked ok. The Hispec 4 pots are
> smaller diameter but spread over a larger pad area to give more even
> pressure.
>
> Bob
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On 24 Mar 2019, at 22:53, Susan and Martin Scott <
> susanandmar...@corringham99.free-online.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > Ignoring the fluid change. What is the combined area of the pistons
> compared to the previous single ones?  I may know an alternative, but it
> depends what the requirements are. It could be that a larger bore master
> cylinder is needed, but some dimensions will be needed to calculate.
> > Martin
> > - Original Message - From: "'Bob Craig' via Quantum Owners
> Group" 
> > To: "Quantum Owners Group" 
> > Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 5:39 PM
> > Subject: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions
> >
> >
> > After upgrading my already upgraded 2+2 brakes from Cosworth single
> piston calipers and huge discs to a much lighter Hispec billet 4 pot
> system, I can't get a decent brake pedal and have next to no braking force.
> I purged all the old brake fluid and refilled with dot5.1, pressure bled
> everything. I'm thinking that my master cylinder may be faulty and just
> looking at options. I know the later type cylinder is a bit like rocking
> horse poo these days and if going to the extent of changing, I'd rather
> have a more performance focused set up.
> > Has anyone fitted the Burton Power bias assembly. It does away with the
> standard servo and master cylinder.
> >
> >
> https://www.burtonpower.com/adjustable-bias-brake-assy-ford-fiesta-mk1-mk2-mk3-brk061.html
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > --
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> > IMPORTANT NOTE: All information presented herewith is provided on an "As
> Is" basis, without warranty or the implication thereof. Neither the Quantum
> Owners Club nor the individuals associated with the Quantum Owners Club or
> in the preparation of the above information shall have any liability to any
> person or entity with respect to liability, loss, or damage caused or
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Re: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions

['Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners Group]

Single pot Darren. 
Bob

Sent from my iPad

> On 25 Mar 2019, at 13:20, Darren Siepka  wrote:
> 
> Were they single pot escort / Sierra 4x4 cosworth or 2wd Sierra 4pot  
> cosworth calipers?
> I have the 4x4 single pot front with Peugeot single pot rears on my saloon ( 
> this is with the current escort MC)
> 
>> On Mon, 25 Mar 2019, 13:13 'Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners Group, 
>>  wrote:
>> Hi Martin,
>> Not sure about the areas but the Cosworth calipers are certainly bigger than 
>> the original XR2 ones were and worked ok. The Hispec 4 pots are smaller 
>> diameter but spread over a larger pad area to give more even pressure. 
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> > On 24 Mar 2019, at 22:53, Susan and Martin Scott 
>> >  wrote:
>> > 
>> > Ignoring the fluid change. What is the combined area of the pistons 
>> > compared to the previous single ones?  I may know an alternative, but it 
>> > depends what the requirements are. It could be that a larger bore master 
>> > cylinder is needed, but some dimensions will be needed to calculate.
>> > Martin
>> > - Original Message - From: "'Bob Craig' via Quantum Owners Group" 
>> > 
>> > To: "Quantum Owners Group" 
>> > Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 5:39 PM
>> > Subject: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions
>> > 
>> > 
>> > After upgrading my already upgraded 2+2 brakes from Cosworth single piston 
>> > calipers and huge discs to a much lighter Hispec billet 4 pot system, I 
>> > can't get a decent brake pedal and have next to no braking force. I purged 
>> > all the old brake fluid and refilled with dot5.1, pressure bled 
>> > everything. I'm thinking that my master cylinder may be faulty and just 
>> > looking at options. I know the later type cylinder is a bit like rocking 
>> > horse poo these days and if going to the extent of changing, I'd rather 
>> > have a more performance focused set up.
>> > Has anyone fitted the Burton Power bias assembly. It does away with the 
>> > standard servo and master cylinder.
>> > 
>> > https://www.burtonpower.com/adjustable-bias-brake-assy-ford-fiesta-mk1-mk2-mk3-brk061.html
>> > 
>> > Bob
>> > 
>> > -- 
>> > -- 
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> > "Quantum Owners Group" group.
>> > To post to this group, send email to quantumowners@googlegroups.com
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>> > quantumowners-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
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>> > http://groups.google.com/group/quantumowners?hl=en
>> > 
>> > IMPORTANT NOTE: All information presented herewith is provided on an "As 
>> > Is" basis, without warranty or the implication thereof. Neither the 
>> > Quantum Owners Club nor the individuals associated with the Quantum Owners 
>> > Club or in the preparation of the above information shall have any 
>> > liability to any person or entity with respect to liability, loss, or 
>> > damage caused or alleged to be caused directly or indirectly by the 
>> > instructions contained within this or related message(s).
>> > --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> > Groups "Quantum Owners Group" group.
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>> > 
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>> > Quantum Owners Club nor the individuals associated with the Quantum Owners 
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Re: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions

['Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners Group]

Hi Jim, 
I didn't know that.
At the moment I have no pressure at the pedal and full travel.

I guess if I refitted the original set up that yourself and Matthew fitted and 
I have brakes again then it points towards the master cylinder being too small 
to cope with the Hispec set up (same as Willwood). Not a huge job, it's just 
finding time to do it that's the problem. 

As it's only me that drives the car, I'm not overly concerned about removing 
the servo ( if I take that route). 

Bob

Sent from my iPad

> On 25 Mar 2019, at 09:12, Jim Hearne  wrote:
> 
> I had the same problem when i put Willwood 4 pot calipers on my 2+2, that has 
> the early brake setup.
> 
> There are 2 different brake pedals with the hole for the bar that goes 
> through the bulkhead in different places, one gives you more pressure on the 
> master cylinder but at the expense of more pedal travel.
> I may have a picture somewhere.
> I drilled another hole in the already better option pedal , even higher up, 
> this helped with the pressure but gave more pedal travel.
> 
> It certainly stops now, i did a couple of track days in it.
> I also have a feeling that the brake pads either glazed or weren't the best 
> material choice, i bought another set of a more road spec but never got 
> around to fitting them to see if they made a difference.
> 
> I thought i may have been loosing travel with the servo brackets flexing so i 
> plated in the open sides and strengthened to ends, but this made no 
> difference.
> You can also adjust the pushrod in the servo to remove any play before the 
> pushrod contacts the end of the master cylinder.
> But, be careful with this, i got it too close and it wasn't letting the 
> master cylinder fully retract.
> This had the effect that as the fluid got hot it gradually applied the 
> brakes, not so good.
> 
> What bore is your master cylinder ?, it should be stamped on the side.
> 
> I know anything with a bias bar won't pass an IVA test unless it's welded up 
> but not sure if it's an MOT failure.
> Also, without a servo you will need some muscles.
> 
> Jim
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message- From: 'Bob Craig' via Quantum Owners Group
> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 5:39 PM
> To: Quantum Owners Group
> Subject: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions
> 
> After upgrading my already upgraded 2+2 brakes from Cosworth single piston 
> calipers and huge discs to a much lighter Hispec billet 4 pot system, I can't 
> get a decent brake pedal and have next to no braking force. I purged all the 
> old brake fluid and refilled with dot5.1, pressure bled everything. I'm 
> thinking that my master cylinder may be faulty and just looking at options. I 
> know the later type cylinder is a bit like rocking horse poo these days and 
> if going to the extent of changing, I'd rather have a more performance 
> focused set up.
> Has anyone fitted the Burton Power bias assembly. It does away with the 
> standard servo and master cylinder.
> 
> https://www.burtonpower.com/adjustable-bias-brake-assy-ford-fiesta-mk1-mk2-mk3-brk061.html
> 
> Bob
> 
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> IMPORTANT NOTE: All information presented herewith is provided on an "As Is" 
> basis, without warranty or the implication thereof. Neither the Quantum 
> Owners Club nor the individuals associated with the Quantum Owners Club or in 
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> Owners Club nor the individuals associated with the Quantum Owners Club or in 
> the preparation of the above information shall have any liability to any 
> person or ent

Re: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions

[Darren Siepka]

Many moons ago when I did a 4pot conversion to a mini , I had to bleed the
front brakes with the calipers off the car as they had to be manipulated
due to the bleed screw being in the wrong place. If you didn't you had no
pedal due to a air pocket in the caliper

On Mon, 25 Mar 2019, 13:22 'Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners Group, <
quantumowners@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Single pot Darren.
> Bob
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 25 Mar 2019, at 13:20, Darren Siepka  wrote:
>
> Were they single pot escort / Sierra 4x4 cosworth or 2wd Sierra 4pot
> cosworth calipers?
> I have the 4x4 single pot front with Peugeot single pot rears on my saloon
> ( this is with the current escort MC)
>
> On Mon, 25 Mar 2019, 13:13 'Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners Group, <
> quantumowners@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Martin,
>> Not sure about the areas but the Cosworth calipers are certainly bigger
>> than the original XR2 ones were and worked ok. The Hispec 4 pots are
>> smaller diameter but spread over a larger pad area to give more even
>> pressure.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> > On 24 Mar 2019, at 22:53, Susan and Martin Scott <
>> susanandmar...@corringham99.free-online.co.uk> wrote:
>> >
>> > Ignoring the fluid change. What is the combined area of the pistons
>> compared to the previous single ones?  I may know an alternative, but it
>> depends what the requirements are. It could be that a larger bore master
>> cylinder is needed, but some dimensions will be needed to calculate.
>> > Martin
>> > - Original Message - From: "'Bob Craig' via Quantum Owners
>> Group" 
>> > To: "Quantum Owners Group" 
>> > Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 5:39 PM
>> > Subject: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions
>> >
>> >
>> > After upgrading my already upgraded 2+2 brakes from Cosworth single
>> piston calipers and huge discs to a much lighter Hispec billet 4 pot
>> system, I can't get a decent brake pedal and have next to no braking force.
>> I purged all the old brake fluid and refilled with dot5.1, pressure bled
>> everything. I'm thinking that my master cylinder may be faulty and just
>> looking at options. I know the later type cylinder is a bit like rocking
>> horse poo these days and if going to the extent of changing, I'd rather
>> have a more performance focused set up.
>> > Has anyone fitted the Burton Power bias assembly. It does away with the
>> standard servo and master cylinder.
>> >
>> >
>> https://www.burtonpower.com/adjustable-bias-brake-assy-ford-fiesta-mk1-mk2-mk3-brk061.html
>> >
>> > Bob
>> >
>> > --
>> > --
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>> Groups "Quantum Owners Group" group.
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>> >
>> > IMPORTANT NOTE: All information presented herewith is provided on an
>> "As Is" basis, without warranty or the implication thereof. Neither the
>> Quantum Owners Club nor the individuals associated with the Quantum Owners
>> Club or in the preparation of the above information shall have any
>> liability to any person or entity with respect to liability, loss, or
>> damage caused or alleged to be caused directly or indirectly by the
>> instructions contained within this or related message(s).
>> > --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>> "As Is" basis, without warranty or the implication thereof. Neither the
>> Quantum Owners Club nor the individuals associated with the Quantum Owners
>> Club or in the preparation of the above information shall have any
>> liability to any person or entity with respect to liability, loss, or
>> damage caused or alleged to be caused directly or indirectly by the
>> instructions contained within this or related message(s).
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Re: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions

[bill]

Do you still have rubber hoses to the calipers if they are you could clamp them 
off, if the pedal still has long travel problem is in master cylinder, if the 
pedal has no travel problem is in callipers



Sent from my iPhone

On 25 Mar 2019, at 13:24, Darren Siepka 
mailto:dar...@siepka.me.uk>> wrote:

Many moons ago when I did a 4pot conversion to a mini , I had to bleed the 
front brakes with the calipers off the car as they had to be manipulated due to 
the bleed screw being in the wrong place. If you didn't you had no pedal due to 
a air pocket in the caliper

On Mon, 25 Mar 2019, 13:22 'Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners Group, 
mailto:quantumowners@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
Single pot Darren.
Bob

Sent from my iPad

On 25 Mar 2019, at 13:20, Darren Siepka 
mailto:dar...@siepka.me.uk>> wrote:

Were they single pot escort / Sierra 4x4 cosworth or 2wd Sierra 4pot  cosworth 
calipers?
I have the 4x4 single pot front with Peugeot single pot rears on my saloon ( 
this is with the current escort MC)

On Mon, 25 Mar 2019, 13:13 'Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners Group, 
mailto:quantumowners@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
Hi Martin,
Not sure about the areas but the Cosworth calipers are certainly bigger than 
the original XR2 ones were and worked ok. The Hispec 4 pots are smaller 
diameter but spread over a larger pad area to give more even pressure.

Bob

Sent from my iPad

> On 24 Mar 2019, at 22:53, Susan and Martin Scott 
> mailto:susanandmar...@corringham99.free-online.co.uk>>
>  wrote:
>
> Ignoring the fluid change. What is the combined area of the pistons 
> compared to the previous single ones?  I may know an alternative, but it 
> depends what the requirements are. It could be that a larger bore master 
> cylinder is needed, but some dimensions will be needed to calculate.
> Martin
> - Original Message - From: "'Bob Craig' via Quantum Owners Group" 
> mailto:quantumowners@googlegroups.com>>
> To: "Quantum Owners Group" 
> mailto:quantumowners@googlegroups.com>>
> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 5:39 PM
> Subject: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions
>
>
> After upgrading my already upgraded 2+2 brakes from Cosworth single piston 
> calipers and huge discs to a much lighter Hispec billet 4 pot system, I can't 
> get a decent brake pedal and have next to no braking force. I purged all the 
> old brake fluid and refilled with dot5.1, pressure bled everything. I'm 
> thinking that my master cylinder may be faulty and just looking at options. I 
> know the later type cylinder is a bit like rocking horse poo these days and 
> if going to the extent of changing, I'd rather have a more performance 
> focused set up.
> Has anyone fitted the Burton Power bias assembly. It does away with the 
> standard servo and master cylinder.
>
> https://www.burtonpower.com/adjustable-bias-brake-assy-ford-fiesta-mk1-mk2-mk3-brk061.html
>
> Bob
>
> --
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>
> IMPORTANT NOTE: All information presented herewith is provided on an "As Is" 
> basis, without warranty or the implication thereof. Neither the Quantum 
> Owners Club nor the individuals associated with the Quantum Owners Club or in 
> the preparation of the above information shall have any liability to any 
> person or entity with respect to liability, loss, or damage caused or alleged 
> to be caused directly or indirectly by the instructions contained within this 
> or related message(s).
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> IMPORTANT NOTE: All information presented herewith is provided on an "As Is" 
> basis, without warranty or the implication thereof. Neither the Quantum 
> Owners Club nor the individuals associated with the Qua

Re: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions

[Susan and Martin Scott]

If the sizes of the pistons add up to the same area then the original master 
cylinder will be suitable.
For my Rickman (using 4 pot Princess callipers) the pistons are 38mm each 
but of course there are twice the number. The original Ford callipers were 
54mm, so the same area, and the original master cylinder is suitable. I 
suspect it's either air in the system or a master cylinder seal has given 
out due to fluid incompatibility. Even purging the system fully won't get 
rid of the old fluid because 1) some will inevitably be left behind and b) 
the old fluid will 'swell' the seals and become absoorbed to soem extent.

Martin


- Original Message - 
From: "'Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners Group" 


To: 
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2019 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions


Hi Martin,
Not sure about the areas but the Cosworth calipers are certainly bigger than 
the original XR2 ones were and worked ok. The Hispec 4 pots are smaller 
diameter but spread over a larger pad area to give more even pressure.


Bob

Sent from my iPad

On 24 Mar 2019, at 22:53, Susan and Martin Scott 
 wrote:


Ignoring the fluid change. What is the combined area of the pistons 
compared to the previous single ones?  I may know an alternative, but it 
depends what the requirements are. It could be that a larger bore master 
cylinder is needed, but some dimensions will be needed to calculate.

Martin
- Original Message - From: "'Bob Craig' via Quantum Owners Group" 


To: "Quantum Owners Group" 
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 5:39 PM
Subject: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions


After upgrading my already upgraded 2+2 brakes from Cosworth single piston 
calipers and huge discs to a much lighter Hispec billet 4 pot system, I 
can't get a decent brake pedal and have next to no braking force. I purged 
all the old brake fluid and refilled with dot5.1, pressure bled 
everything. I'm thinking that my master cylinder may be faulty and just 
looking at options. I know the later type cylinder is a bit like rocking 
horse poo these days and if going to the extent of changing, I'd rather 
have a more performance focused set up.
Has anyone fitted the Burton Power bias assembly. It does away with the 
standard servo and master cylinder.


https://www.burtonpower.com/adjustable-bias-brake-assy-ford-fiesta-mk1-mk2-mk3-brk061.html

Bob

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Club or in the preparation of the above information shall have any 
liability to any person or entity with respect to liability, loss, or 
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To po

Re: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions

[Susan and Martin Scott]

Every day's a school day as they say... I've just done a 'net search and it 
seems dot 5.1 and dot 3 are compatible.along with dot 4. The oddity is dot 5  
which is silicone based (nb not 5.1. The others, dot3, 4 and 5.1 are glycol 
based so are compatible with each other. Why are these things always so 
complicated, and confusing numbers, surely DOT S1 would have been a better 
label for the silicone one.  Good news though as it means Bob's car may just 
need the system bleeding. I've found in the past that if the system is drained 
fully it makes it a lot more difficult to bleed - I used both an easybleed to 
pressurise AND an assistant pressing the brake pedal before I was successful.  
Martin
  - Original Message - 
  From: 'Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners Group 
  To: quantumowners@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, March 25, 2019 1:22 PM
  Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions


  Single pot Darren. 
  Bob

  Sent from my iPad

  On 25 Mar 2019, at 13:20, Darren Siepka  wrote:


Were they single pot escort / Sierra 4x4 cosworth or 2wd Sierra 4pot  
cosworth calipers?
I have the 4x4 single pot front with Peugeot single pot rears on my saloon 
( this is with the current escort MC)


On Mon, 25 Mar 2019, 13:13 'Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners Group, 
 wrote:

  Hi Martin,
  Not sure about the areas but the Cosworth calipers are certainly bigger 
than the original XR2 ones were and worked ok. The Hispec 4 pots are smaller 
diameter but spread over a larger pad area to give more even pressure. 

  Bob

  Sent from my iPad

  > On 24 Mar 2019, at 22:53, Susan and Martin Scott 
 wrote:
  > 
  > Ignoring the fluid change. What is the combined area of the pistons 
compared to the previous single ones?  I may know an alternative, but it 
depends what the requirements are. It could be that a larger bore master 
cylinder is needed, but some dimensions will be needed to calculate.
  > Martin
  > - Original Message - From: "'Bob Craig' via Quantum Owners 
Group" 
  > To: "Quantum Owners Group" 
  > Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 5:39 PM
  > Subject: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions
  > 
  > 
  > After upgrading my already upgraded 2+2 brakes from Cosworth single 
piston calipers and huge discs to a much lighter Hispec billet 4 pot system, I 
can't get a decent brake pedal and have next to no braking force. I purged all 
the old brake fluid and refilled with dot5.1, pressure bled everything. I'm 
thinking that my master cylinder may be faulty and just looking at options. I 
know the later type cylinder is a bit like rocking horse poo these days and if 
going to the extent of changing, I'd rather have a more performance focused set 
up.
  > Has anyone fitted the Burton Power bias assembly. It does away with the 
standard servo and master cylinder.
  > 
  > 
https://www.burtonpower.com/adjustable-bias-brake-assy-ford-fiesta-mk1-mk2-mk3-brk061.html
  > 
  > Bob
  > 
  > -- 
  > -- 
  > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
Groups "Quantum Owners Group" group.
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  > 
  > IMPORTANT NOTE: All information presented herewith is provided on an 
"As Is" basis, without warranty or the implication thereof. Neither the Quantum 
Owners Club nor the individuals associated with the Quantum Owners Club or in 
the preparation of the above information shall have any liability to any person 
or entity with respect to liability, loss, or damage caused or alleged to be 
caused directly or indirectly by the instructions contained within this or 
related message(s).
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O

Re: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions

[Susan and Martin Scott]

I've got confused with all the dot numbers now I've just looked back 
at the (now deleted) original note, and if dot 5 has been replaced with 5.1 
that may create a problem given what I found earlier (if it's correct info)?
A crazy numbering system which could have been better managed - But the DOT 
(like all gov't depts) know best :-)

Martin

- Original Message - 
From: "Jim Hearne" 

To: 
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2019 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions


I remember working all this out on a spreadsheet years ago.
Does the Ford caliper being the sliding sort count as twice the piston area
?

Jim

-Original Message- 
From: Susan and Martin Scott

Sent: Monday, March 25, 2019 1:48 PM
To: quantumowners@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions

If the sizes of the pistons add up to the same area then the original master
cylinder will be suitable.
For my Rickman (using 4 pot Princess callipers) the pistons are 38mm each
but of course there are twice the number. The original Ford callipers were
54mm, so the same area, and the original master cylinder is suitable. I
suspect it's either air in the system or a master cylinder seal has given
out due to fluid incompatibility. Even purging the system fully won't get
rid of the old fluid because 1) some will inevitably be left behind and b)
the old fluid will 'swell' the seals and become absoorbed to soem extent.
Martin


- Original Message - 
From: "'Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners Group"


To: 
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2019 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions


Hi Martin,
Not sure about the areas but the Cosworth calipers are certainly bigger than
the original XR2 ones were and worked ok. The Hispec 4 pots are smaller
diameter but spread over a larger pad area to give more even pressure.

Bob

Sent from my iPad

On 24 Mar 2019, at 22:53, Susan and Martin Scott 
 wrote:


Ignoring the fluid change. What is the combined area of the pistons 
compared to the previous single ones?  I may know an alternative, but it 
depends what the requirements are. It could be that a larger bore master 
cylinder is needed, but some dimensions will be needed to calculate.

Martin
- Original Message - From: "'Bob Craig' via Quantum Owners Group" 


To: "Quantum Owners Group" 
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 5:39 PM
Subject: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions


After upgrading my already upgraded 2+2 brakes from Cosworth single piston 
calipers and huge discs to a much lighter Hispec billet 4 pot system, I 
can't get a decent brake pedal and have next to no braking force. I purged 
all the old brake fluid and refilled with dot5.1, pressure bled 
everything. I'm thinking that my master cylinder may be faulty and just 
looking at options. I know the later type cylinder is a bit like rocking 
horse poo these days and if going to the extent of changing, I'd rather 
have a more performance focused set up.
Has anyone fitted the Burton Power bias assembly. It does away with the 
standard servo and master cylinder.


https://www.burtonpower.com/adjustable-bias-brake-assy-ford-fiesta-mk1-mk2-mk3-brk061.html

Bob

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Re: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions

[Susan and Martin Scott]

I'm pretty sure it would do because 1 sliding calliper (the other pad 
effectively fixed) means the pads have to move the same as with 2 pistons, 
so the same amount of fluid will be displaced.

Martin
- Original Message - 
From: "Jim Hearne" 

To: 
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2019 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions


I remember working all this out on a spreadsheet years ago.
Does the Ford caliper being the sliding sort count as twice the piston area
?

Jim

-Original Message- 
From: Susan and Martin Scott

Sent: Monday, March 25, 2019 1:48 PM
To: quantumowners@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions

If the sizes of the pistons add up to the same area then the original master
cylinder will be suitable.
For my Rickman (using 4 pot Princess callipers) the pistons are 38mm each
but of course there are twice the number. The original Ford callipers were
54mm, so the same area, and the original master cylinder is suitable. I
suspect it's either air in the system or a master cylinder seal has given
out due to fluid incompatibility. Even purging the system fully won't get
rid of the old fluid because 1) some will inevitably be left behind and b)
the old fluid will 'swell' the seals and become absoorbed to soem extent.
Martin


- Original Message - 
From: "'Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners Group"


To: 
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2019 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions


Hi Martin,
Not sure about the areas but the Cosworth calipers are certainly bigger than
the original XR2 ones were and worked ok. The Hispec 4 pots are smaller
diameter but spread over a larger pad area to give more even pressure.

Bob

Sent from my iPad

On 24 Mar 2019, at 22:53, Susan and Martin Scott 
 wrote:


Ignoring the fluid change. What is the combined area of the pistons 
compared to the previous single ones?  I may know an alternative, but it 
depends what the requirements are. It could be that a larger bore master 
cylinder is needed, but some dimensions will be needed to calculate.

Martin
- Original Message - From: "'Bob Craig' via Quantum Owners Group" 


To: "Quantum Owners Group" 
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 5:39 PM
Subject: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions


After upgrading my already upgraded 2+2 brakes from Cosworth single piston 
calipers and huge discs to a much lighter Hispec billet 4 pot system, I 
can't get a decent brake pedal and have next to no braking force. I purged 
all the old brake fluid and refilled with dot5.1, pressure bled 
everything. I'm thinking that my master cylinder may be faulty and just 
looking at options. I know the later type cylinder is a bit like rocking 
horse poo these days and if going to the extent of changing, I'd rather 
have a more performance focused set up.
Has anyone fitted the Burton Power bias assembly. It does away with the 
standard servo and master cylinder.


https://www.burtonpower.com/adjustable-bias-brake-assy-ford-fiesta-mk1-mk2-mk3-brk061.html

Bob

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Re: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions

[Jim Hearne]

I remember working all this out on a spreadsheet years ago.
Does the Ford caliper being the sliding sort count as twice the piston area 
?


Jim

-Original Message- 
From: Susan and Martin Scott

Sent: Monday, March 25, 2019 1:48 PM
To: quantumowners@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions

If the sizes of the pistons add up to the same area then the original master
cylinder will be suitable.
For my Rickman (using 4 pot Princess callipers) the pistons are 38mm each
but of course there are twice the number. The original Ford callipers were
54mm, so the same area, and the original master cylinder is suitable. I
suspect it's either air in the system or a master cylinder seal has given
out due to fluid incompatibility. Even purging the system fully won't get
rid of the old fluid because 1) some will inevitably be left behind and b)
the old fluid will 'swell' the seals and become absoorbed to soem extent.
Martin


- Original Message - 
From: "'Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners Group"


To: 
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2019 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions


Hi Martin,
Not sure about the areas but the Cosworth calipers are certainly bigger than
the original XR2 ones were and worked ok. The Hispec 4 pots are smaller
diameter but spread over a larger pad area to give more even pressure.

Bob

Sent from my iPad

On 24 Mar 2019, at 22:53, Susan and Martin Scott 
 wrote:


Ignoring the fluid change. What is the combined area of the pistons 
compared to the previous single ones?  I may know an alternative, but it 
depends what the requirements are. It could be that a larger bore master 
cylinder is needed, but some dimensions will be needed to calculate.

Martin
- Original Message - From: "'Bob Craig' via Quantum Owners Group" 


To: "Quantum Owners Group" 
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 5:39 PM
Subject: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions


After upgrading my already upgraded 2+2 brakes from Cosworth single piston 
calipers and huge discs to a much lighter Hispec billet 4 pot system, I 
can't get a decent brake pedal and have next to no braking force. I purged 
all the old brake fluid and refilled with dot5.1, pressure bled 
everything. I'm thinking that my master cylinder may be faulty and just 
looking at options. I know the later type cylinder is a bit like rocking 
horse poo these days and if going to the extent of changing, I'd rather 
have a more performance focused set up.
Has anyone fitted the Burton Power bias assembly. It does away with the 
standard servo and master cylinder.


https://www.burtonpower.com/adjustable-bias-brake-assy-ford-fiesta-mk1-mk2-mk3-brk061.html

Bob

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Re: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions

[Jim Hearne]

Not 100% sure but it probably had DOT 5 silicone fluid in it as that was 
what i used myself at the time.

The silicone fluid is a slightly purple colour.

Jim


-Original Message- 
From: 'Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners Group

Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 7:31 PM
To: quantumowners@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions

Hi Martin,
Not sure what was in it before but yes, possibly dot 3. I did wonder about 
switching to dot 5 but it seemed like a sensible approach when going to a 
higher spec system.


Bob

Sent from my iPad

On 24 Mar 2019, at 17:57, Susan and Martin Scott 
 wrote:


Did you have dot 3 fluid in originally? If any fluid (other than 5.1) has 
been used with the brake parts the seals won't last long if the fluid is 
then changed to 5.1. due to fluid incompatibilty.

Martin Scott

- Original Message - From: "'Bob Craig' via Quantum Owners Group" 


To: "Quantum Owners Group" 
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 5:39 PM
Subject: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions


After upgrading my already upgraded 2+2 brakes from Cosworth single piston 
calipers and huge discs to a much lighter Hispec billet 4 pot system, I 
can't get a decent brake pedal and have next to no braking force. I purged 
all the old brake fluid and refilled with dot5.1, pressure bled 
everything. I'm thinking that my master cylinder may be faulty and just 
looking at options. I know the later type cylinder is a bit like rocking 
horse poo these days and if going to the extent of changing, I'd rather 
have a more performance focused set up.
Has anyone fitted the Burton Power bias assembly. It does away with the 
standard servo and master cylinder.


https://www.burtonpower.com/adjustable-bias-brake-assy-ford-fiesta-mk1-mk2-mk3-brk061.html

Bob

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person or entity with respect to liabili

[Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions

['Michael Aitken' via Quantum Owners Group]

Hi m8 where I put the wilwoods on my old car started the bleeding of the 
caliper at the bottom inside, bottom outside and then top inside and top 
outside in that order. Did not get much air out the top by loads out the top. 

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Re: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions

['Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners Group]

Braided hoses Bill. 

Bob

Sent from my iPad

> On 25 Mar 2019, at 13:28, bill  wrote:
> 
> Do you still have rubber hoses to the calipers if they are you could clamp 
> them off, if the pedal still has long travel problem is in master cylinder, 
> if the pedal has no travel problem is in callipers
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On 25 Mar 2019, at 13:24, Darren Siepka  wrote:
> 
>> Many moons ago when I did a 4pot conversion to a mini , I had to bleed the 
>> front brakes with the calipers off the car as they had to be manipulated due 
>> to the bleed screw being in the wrong place. If you didn't you had no pedal 
>> due to a air pocket in the caliper
>> 
>>> On Mon, 25 Mar 2019, 13:22 'Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners Group, 
>>>  wrote:
>>> Single pot Darren. 
>>> Bob
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
>>> On 25 Mar 2019, at 13:20, Darren Siepka  wrote:
>>> 
 Were they single pot escort / Sierra 4x4 cosworth or 2wd Sierra 4pot  
 cosworth calipers?
 I have the 4x4 single pot front with Peugeot single pot rears on my saloon 
 ( this is with the current escort MC)
 
> On Mon, 25 Mar 2019, 13:13 'Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners Group, 
>  wrote:
> Hi Martin,
> Not sure about the areas but the Cosworth calipers are certainly bigger 
> than the original XR2 ones were and worked ok. The Hispec 4 pots are 
> smaller diameter but spread over a larger pad area to give more even 
> pressure. 
> 
> Bob
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> > On 24 Mar 2019, at 22:53, Susan and Martin Scott 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > Ignoring the fluid change. What is the combined area of the pistons 
> > compared to the previous single ones?  I may know an alternative, but 
> > it depends what the requirements are. It could be that a larger bore 
> > master cylinder is needed, but some dimensions will be needed to 
> > calculate.
> > Martin
> > - Original Message - From: "'Bob Craig' via Quantum Owners 
> > Group" 
> > To: "Quantum Owners Group" 
> > Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 5:39 PM
> > Subject: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions
> > 
> > 
> > After upgrading my already upgraded 2+2 brakes from Cosworth single 
> > piston calipers and huge discs to a much lighter Hispec billet 4 pot 
> > system, I can't get a decent brake pedal and have next to no braking 
> > force. I purged all the old brake fluid and refilled with dot5.1, 
> > pressure bled everything. I'm thinking that my master cylinder may be 
> > faulty and just looking at options. I know the later type cylinder is a 
> > bit like rocking horse poo these days and if going to the extent of 
> > changing, I'd rather have a more performance focused set up.
> > Has anyone fitted the Burton Power bias assembly. It does away with the 
> > standard servo and master cylinder.
> > 
> > https://www.burtonpower.com/adjustable-bias-brake-assy-ford-fiesta-mk1-mk2-mk3-brk061.html
> > 
> > Bob
> > 
> > -- 
> > -- 
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> > 
> > IMPORTANT NOTE: All information presented herewith is provided on an 
> > "As Is" basis, without warranty or the implication thereof. Neither the 
> > Quantum Owners Club nor the individuals associated with the Quantum 
> > Owners Club or in the preparation of the above information shall have 
> > any liability to any person or entity with respect to liability, loss, 
> > or damage caused or alleged to be caused directly or indirectly by the 
> > instructions contained within this or related message(s).
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> > 
> > IMPORTANT NOTE: All inform

Re: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions

['Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners Group]

That's a fair point Darren and I've heard of that problem with mini calipers. 

I've got the calipers fitted with the bleed screws at the bottom but maybe they 
should be at the top, so effectively I may have fitted the n/s to the o/s and 
the o/s to the n/s (they came with the bleed screws already fitted). There are 
two on each caliper and they may be interchangeable top to bottom - need to 
check if there are blanks at the other end or swap them side to side. Worth a 
try at least.

Bob

Sent from my iPad

> On 25 Mar 2019, at 13:24, Darren Siepka  wrote:
> 
> Many moons ago when I did a 4pot conversion to a mini , I had to bleed the 
> front brakes with the calipers off the car as they had to be manipulated due 
> to the bleed screw being in the wrong place. If you didn't you had no pedal 
> due to a air pocket in the caliper
> 
>> On Mon, 25 Mar 2019, 13:22 'Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners Group, 
>>  wrote:
>> Single pot Darren. 
>> Bob
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On 25 Mar 2019, at 13:20, Darren Siepka  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Were they single pot escort / Sierra 4x4 cosworth or 2wd Sierra 4pot  
>>> cosworth calipers?
>>> I have the 4x4 single pot front with Peugeot single pot rears on my saloon 
>>> ( this is with the current escort MC)
>>> 
 On Mon, 25 Mar 2019, 13:13 'Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners Group, 
  wrote:
 Hi Martin,
 Not sure about the areas but the Cosworth calipers are certainly bigger 
 than the original XR2 ones were and worked ok. The Hispec 4 pots are 
 smaller diameter but spread over a larger pad area to give more even 
 pressure. 
 
 Bob
 
 Sent from my iPad
 
 > On 24 Mar 2019, at 22:53, Susan and Martin Scott 
 >  wrote:
 > 
 > Ignoring the fluid change. What is the combined area of the pistons 
 > compared to the previous single ones?  I may know an alternative, but it 
 > depends what the requirements are. It could be that a larger bore master 
 > cylinder is needed, but some dimensions will be needed to calculate.
 > Martin
 > - Original Message - From: "'Bob Craig' via Quantum Owners 
 > Group" 
 > To: "Quantum Owners Group" 
 > Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 5:39 PM
 > Subject: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions
 > 
 > 
 > After upgrading my already upgraded 2+2 brakes from Cosworth single 
 > piston calipers and huge discs to a much lighter Hispec billet 4 pot 
 > system, I can't get a decent brake pedal and have next to no braking 
 > force. I purged all the old brake fluid and refilled with dot5.1, 
 > pressure bled everything. I'm thinking that my master cylinder may be 
 > faulty and just looking at options. I know the later type cylinder is a 
 > bit like rocking horse poo these days and if going to the extent of 
 > changing, I'd rather have a more performance focused set up.
 > Has anyone fitted the Burton Power bias assembly. It does away with the 
 > standard servo and master cylinder.
 > 
 > https://www.burtonpower.com/adjustable-bias-brake-assy-ford-fiesta-mk1-mk2-mk3-brk061.html
 > 
 > Bob
 > 
 > -- 
 > -- 
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 > Groups "Quantum Owners Group" group.
 > To post to this group, send email to quantumowners@googlegroups.com
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 > quantumowners-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
 > For more options, visit this group at 
 > http://groups.google.com/group/quantumowners?hl=en
 > 
 > IMPORTANT NOTE: All information presented herewith is provided on an "As 
 > Is" basis, without warranty or the implication thereof. Neither the 
 > Quantum Owners Club nor the individuals associated with the Quantum 
 > Owners Club or in the preparation of the above information shall have 
 > any liability to any person or entity with respect to liability, loss, 
 > or damage caused or alleged to be caused directly or indirectly by the 
 > instructions contained within this or related message(s).
 > --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
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Re: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions

['Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners Group]

Thanks Michael,
Did yours have 4 bleed screws per caliper then?

Sent from my iPad

> On 25 Mar 2019, at 17:54, 'Michael Aitken' via Quantum Owners Group 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi m8 where I put the wilwoods on my old car started the bleeding of the 
> caliper at the bottom inside, bottom outside and then top inside and top 
> outside in that order. Did not get much air out the top by loads out the top. 
> 
> -- 
> -- 
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> 
> IMPORTANT NOTE: All information presented herewith is provided on an "As Is" 
> basis, without warranty or the implication thereof. Neither the Quantum 
> Owners Club nor the individuals associated with the Quantum Owners Club or in 
> the preparation of the above information shall have any liability to any 
> person or entity with respect to liability, loss, or damage caused or alleged 
> to be caused directly or indirectly by the instructions contained within this 
> or related message(s).
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Re: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions

['Steve Kodź' via Quantum Owners Group]

Bob,
The Wildwoods on my Xtreme have 4 per caliper.

Regards,
Steve

On 25 March 2019 18:05:43 "'Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners Group" 
 wrote:



Thanks Michael,
Did yours have 4 bleed screws per caliper then?

Sent from my iPad

On 25 Mar 2019, at 17:54, 'Michael Aitken' via Quantum Owners Group 
 wrote:


Hi m8 where I put the wilwoods on my old car started the bleeding of the 
caliper at the bottom inside, bottom outside and then top inside and top 
outside in that order. Did not get much air out the top by loads out the top.


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Re: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions

['Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners Group]

Thanks Steve,
I'll check if they have blanking plugs fitted at the top. It would be easier to 
fit bleed screws than to swap the calipers round.

Bob

Sent from my iPad

> On 25 Mar 2019, at 18:09, 'Steve Kodź' via Quantum Owners Group 
>  wrote:
> 
> Bob,
> The Wildwoods on my Xtreme have 4 per caliper.
> 
> Regards,
> Steve
> 
>> On 25 March 2019 18:05:43 "'Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners Group" 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks Michael,
>> Did yours have 4 bleed screws per caliper then?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On 25 Mar 2019, at 17:54, 'Michael Aitken' via Quantum Owners Group 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi m8 where I put the wilwoods on my old car started the bleeding of the 
>>> caliper at the bottom inside, bottom outside and then top inside and top 
>>> outside in that order. Did not get much air out the top by loads out the 
>>> top.
>>> 
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Re: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions

['Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners Group]

That's helpful Steve. The Hispec caliper is pretty much the same but only came 
with one bleed screw on each side.

Bob

Sent from my iPad

> On 25 Mar 2019, at 18:12, 'Steve Kodź' via Quantum Owners Group 
>  wrote:
> 
> I hit send too quickly there ..
> 
> The inner side of the caliper is easy to photo, but the outside is basically 
> the same.
> 
> Regards,
> Steve
> 
>> On 25 March 2019 18:09:58 'Steve Kodź' via Quantum Owners Group 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Bob,
>> The Wildwoods on my Xtreme have 4 per caliper.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Steve
>> 
>> On 25 March 2019 18:05:43 "'Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners Group"
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> Thanks Michael,
>>> Did yours have 4 bleed screws per caliper then?
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
 On 25 Mar 2019, at 17:54, 'Michael Aitken' via Quantum Owners Group
  wrote:
 
 Hi m8 where I put the wilwoods on my old car started the bleeding of the
 caliper at the bottom inside, bottom outside and then top inside and top
 outside in that order. Did not get much air out the top by loads out the 
 top.
 
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Re: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions

['Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners Group]

Pic below.

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Sent from my iPad

> On 25 Mar 2019, at 18:13, 'Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners Group 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thanks Steve,
> I'll check if they have blanking plugs fitted at the top. It would be easier 
> to fit bleed screws than to swap the calipers round.
> 
> Bob
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On 25 Mar 2019, at 18:09, 'Steve Kodź' via Quantum Owners Group 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Bob,
>> The Wildwoods on my Xtreme have 4 per caliper.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Steve
>> 
>>> On 25 March 2019 18:05:43 "'Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners Group" 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks Michael,
>>> Did yours have 4 bleed screws per caliper then?
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
 On 25 Mar 2019, at 17:54, 'Michael Aitken' via Quantum Owners Group 
  wrote:
 
 Hi m8 where I put the wilwoods on my old car started the bleeding of the 
 caliper at the bottom inside, bottom outside and then top inside and top 
 outside in that order. Did not get much air out the top by loads out the 
 top.
 
 --
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 IMPORTANT NOTE: All information presented herewith is provided on an "As 
 Is" basis, without warranty or the implication thereof. Neither the 
 Quantum Owners Club nor the individuals associated with the Quantum Owners 
 Club or in the preparation of the above information shall have any 
 liability to any person or entity with respect to liability, loss, or 
 damage caused or alleged to be caused directly or indirectly by the 
 instructions contained within this or related message(s).
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Re: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions

[Jim Hearne]

Yes, should certainly have the bleed screws at the top, you won't get 
much air out of the bottom.
My Wilwoods have bleed screws at the top and bottom but i've never bleed 
the bottom ones, didn't seem much point as all the air would be at the top.


Jim


On 25/03/2019 18:03, 'Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners Group wrote:
That's a fair point Darren and I've heard of that problem with mini 
calipers.


I've got the calipers fitted with the bleed screws at the bottom but 
maybe they should be at the top, so effectively I may have fitted the 
n/s to the o/s and the o/s to the n/s (they came with the bleed screws 
already fitted). There are two on each caliper and they may be 
interchangeable top to bottom - need to check if there are blanks at 
the other end or swap them side to side. Worth a try at least.


Bob

Sent from my iPad

On 25 Mar 2019, at 13:24, Darren Siepka > wrote:


Many moons ago when I did a 4pot conversion to a mini , I had to 
bleed the front brakes with the calipers off the car as they had to 
be manipulated due to the bleed screw being in the wrong place. If 
you didn't you had no pedal due to a air pocket in the caliper


On Mon, 25 Mar 2019, 13:22 'Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners Group, 
> wrote:


Single pot Darren.
Bob

Sent from my iPad

On 25 Mar 2019, at 13:20, Darren Siepka mailto:dar...@siepka.me.uk>> wrote:


Were they single pot escort / Sierra 4x4 cosworth or 2wd Sierra
4pot  cosworth calipers?
I have the 4x4 single pot front with Peugeot single pot rears on
my saloon ( this is with the current escort MC)

On Mon, 25 Mar 2019, 13:13 'Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners
Group, mailto:quantumowners@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

Hi Martin,
Not sure about the areas but the Cosworth calipers are
certainly bigger than the original XR2 ones were and worked
ok. The Hispec 4 pots are smaller diameter but spread over a
larger pad area to give more even pressure.

Bob

Sent from my iPad

> On 24 Mar 2019, at 22:53, Susan and Martin Scott
mailto:susanandmar...@corringham99.free-online.co.uk>> wrote:
>
> Ignoring the fluid change. What is the combined area
of the pistons compared to the previous single ones?  I may
know an alternative, but it depends what the requirements
are. It could be that a larger bore master cylinder is
needed, but some dimensions will be needed to calculate.
> Martin
> - Original Message - From: "'Bob Craig' via
Quantum Owners Group" mailto:quantumowners@googlegroups.com>>
> To: "Quantum Owners Group" mailto:quantumowners@googlegroups.com>>
> Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 5:39 PM
> Subject: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions
>
>
> After upgrading my already upgraded 2+2 brakes from
Cosworth single piston calipers and huge discs to a much
lighter Hispec billet 4 pot system, I can't get a decent
brake pedal and have next to no braking force. I purged all
the old brake fluid and refilled with dot5.1, pressure bled
everything. I'm thinking that my master cylinder may be
faulty and just looking at options. I know the later type
cylinder is a bit like rocking horse poo these days and if
going to the extent of changing, I'd rather have a more
performance focused set up.
> Has anyone fitted the Burton Power bias assembly. It does
away with the standard servo and master cylinder.
>
>

https://www.burtonpower.com/adjustable-bias-brake-assy-ford-fiesta-mk1-mk2-mk3-brk061.html
>
> Bob
>
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Re: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions

['Steve Kodź' via Quantum Owners Group]

Hopefully you can move the bleed nipples to the top, otherwise you may have 
to swap the calipers between the sides.


Regards,
Steve

On 25 March 2019 18:29:04 "'Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners Group" 
 wrote:



Pic below.

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Sent from my iPad

On 25 Mar 2019, at 18:13, 'Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners Group 
 wrote:


Thanks Steve,
I'll check if they have blanking plugs fitted at the top. It would be 
easier to fit bleed screws than to swap the calipers round.


Bob

Sent from my iPad

On 25 Mar 2019, at 18:09, 'Steve Kodź' via Quantum Owners Group 
 wrote:


Bob,
The Wildwoods on my Xtreme have 4 per caliper.

Regards,
Steve

On 25 March 2019 18:05:43 "'Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners Group" 
 wrote:


Thanks Michael,
Did yours have 4 bleed screws per caliper then?

Sent from my iPad

On 25 Mar 2019, at 17:54, 'Michael Aitken' via Quantum Owners Group 
 wrote:


Hi m8 where I put the wilwoods on my old car started the bleeding of the 
caliper at the bottom inside, bottom outside and then top inside and top 
outside in that order. Did not get much air out the top by loads out the top.


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Re: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions

['Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners Group]

All makes sense now. Sometimes you just need another pair of eyes to look at 
things from a different perspective. I'll let you know how I get on.

Thanks everyone for your input.

Bob

Sent from my iPad

> On 25 Mar 2019, at 18:54, 'Steve Kodź' via Quantum Owners Group 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hopefully you can move the bleed nipples to the top, otherwise you may have 
> to swap the calipers between the sides.
> 
> Regards,
> Steve
> 
>> On 25 March 2019 18:29:04 "'Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners Group" 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Pic below.
>> 
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>> 
>>> On 25 Mar 2019, at 18:13, 'Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners Group 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks Steve,
>>> I'll check if they have blanking plugs fitted at the top. It would be 
>>> easier to fit bleed screws than to swap the calipers round.
>>> 
>>> Bob
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
 On 25 Mar 2019, at 18:09, 'Steve Kodź' via Quantum Owners Group 
  wrote:
 
 Bob,
 The Wildwoods on my Xtreme have 4 per caliper.
 
 Regards,
 Steve
 
> On 25 March 2019 18:05:43 "'Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners Group" 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thanks Michael,
> Did yours have 4 bleed screws per caliper then?
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On 25 Mar 2019, at 17:54, 'Michael Aitken' via Quantum Owners Group 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi m8 where I put the wilwoods on my old car started the bleeding of the 
>> caliper at the bottom inside, bottom outside and then top inside and top 
>> outside in that order. Did not get much air out the top by loads out the 
>> top.
>> 
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Re: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions

['Michael Aitken' via Quantum Owners Group]

Yes 4 on the wilwoods two top and two bottom. 

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Re: [Quantum Owners] Brake master cylinder conversions

['Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners Group]

Thanks Michael.
Only 2 on mine and no blanks at the other end. Need to swap them side to side 
to have them at the top. 

Bob

Sent from my iPad

> On 25 Mar 2019, at 18:49, 'Michael Aitken' via Quantum Owners Group 
>  wrote:
> 
> Yes 4 on the wilwoods two top and two bottom. 
> 
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