Re: [qubes-users] USB controllers

['awokd' via qubes-users]

Franz:


Just to note that I made some improvements: I bought two different PCI USB
controllers, connected the mouse and keyboard to one of them and kept the
other one for connecting hard disks, USB keys, file transfers, and
sometimes a printer. Everything works reliably.

Regarding the noise of the fans, I bought a water cooling system with a
radiator outside of the room, to keep it silent.

The only remaining issue is that it is slow. It is slower than my x230. But
x230 has 16G RAM and ME, while with this KCMA-D8 I have 32G RAM, no ME and
coreboot.


Nice setup!

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Re: [qubes-users] USB controllers

[Franz]

>
>
>
>
> Is it possible for you to boot a live distro from USB and see if the
>>> same issues exist?
>>>
>>
> If I boot from a live Debian everything works. I tried 5 times one after
> the other and it was much faster and the mouse worked, immediately after
> tried Qubes and the mouse did not work. So it seems Qubes specific.
>
>
Just to note that I made some improvements: I bought two different PCI USB
controllers, connected the mouse and keyboard to one of them and kept the
other one for connecting hard disks, USB keys, file transfers, and
sometimes a printer. Everything works reliably.

Regarding the noise of the fans, I bought a water cooling system with a
radiator outside of the room, to keep it silent.

The only remaining issue is that it is slow. It is slower than my x230. But
x230 has 16G RAM and ME, while with this KCMA-D8 I have 32G RAM, no ME and
coreboot.

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Re: [qubes-users] USB controllers

[Franz]

On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 10:33 AM Unman  wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 21, 2021 at 11:22:01PM -0300, Franz wrote:
> > >
> > Other strange things happened:
> > To restore a backup I connected an external USB disk with the backup to
> the
> > second USB qube and under the restore command I clicked on the external
> USB
> > disk to mount it. When I did that, a black background message on the
> upper
> > right part of the screen told me that the disk was removed, while, at the
> > same time it was NOT removed at all because the triangle showed that the
> > disk was mounted and the  content of the external USB disk was shown.
> Using
> > my old and trusted x230 for many years this never happened. So I suppose
> it
> > is strange.
> >
> > Also, the computer seems much slower than my old x230, which is strange
> > being a new computer
> >
> > If you want me to try commands and report results, just ask, I am very
> > willing to do anything that may be helpful to solve these problems.
> > best
>
> Hi Franz
>
> Sorry for the radio silence. I'll dig in to the logs you provided in
> the morning.
>

Many thanks Unman. In the meantime I made other tests for the usb mouse
thing and found a constant behaviour:

When the computer is cold, booting  has about 50% chances of getting the
mouse working when connected to the back USb ports and 25% chances when
 connected to the USB port in the middle of the board.

When the computer is warm there is no chance of getting the mouse working
after booting.

Also I was able to get the files of dmesg and journalctl of the sys-usb VM
when mouse works and when mouse does not work, and the red messages  are
quite different, even if i am unable to understand them.





At this stage I would *seriously* be thinking of looking for a refund or
> replacement - you simply shouldn't be having these issues with a new
> computer, particularly if you had told them you would be running Qubes.
>
> Is it possible for you to boot a live distro from USB and see if the
> same issues exist?
>
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>

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Re: [qubes-users] USB controllers

[Unman]

On Mon, Jun 21, 2021 at 11:22:01PM -0300, Franz wrote:
> >
> Other strange things happened:
> To restore a backup I connected an external USB disk with the backup to the
> second USB qube and under the restore command I clicked on the external USB
> disk to mount it. When I did that, a black background message on the upper
> right part of the screen told me that the disk was removed, while, at the
> same time it was NOT removed at all because the triangle showed that the
> disk was mounted and the  content of the external USB disk was shown. Using
> my old and trusted x230 for many years this never happened. So I suppose it
> is strange.
> 
> Also, the computer seems much slower than my old x230, which is strange
> being a new computer
> 
> If you want me to try commands and report results, just ask, I am very
> willing to do anything that may be helpful to solve these problems.
> best

Hi Franz

Sorry for the radio silence. I'll dig in to the logs you provided in
the morning.
At this stage I would *seriously* be thinking of looking for a refund or
replacement - you simply shouldn't be having these issues with a new
computer, particularly if you had told them you would be running Qubes.

Is it possible for you to boot a live distro from USB and see if the
same issues exist?

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Re: [qubes-users] USB controllers

[Franz]

On Sun, Jun 20, 2021 at 11:15 PM Franz <169...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I abandoned the computer for a week or so, without doing anything, then,
> for some mysterious reason the mouse worked again. So I  am profiting doing
> the tests Unman asked
>
>
>
>>
>> > > Many thanks it worked perfectly
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > It worked perfectly for a week or so, then the mouse stopped working.
>>> > Thomas at Vikings, who built the D8 computer with preinstalled
>>> coreboot,
>>> > says it should be a Qubes issue.
>>> >
>>> > How may I tell if it is a Qubes issue or a hardware issue?
>>> > best
>>> >
>>>
>>> You aren't clear on what is happened here, because you haven't provided
>>> sufficient detail..
>>> Do you mean that you allocated a USB controller to a sys-usb, to use
>>> with the mouse. After a week, the mouse stopped working.
>>> When both controllers were attached to a single usb-qube the mouse
>>> worked without interruption.
>>> Is that the position?
>>>
>>
>> Yes, but it worked also when only one USB controller was allocated to the
>> mouse qube.
>>
>>>
>>> Did the other USB qube continue to work?
>>>
>>
>> yes it works, I am able to mount an external USB drive. Also lsusb works
>> and shows the external USB drive
>>
>>
>>> If you type lsusb in the "mouse"-usb do you see the mouse attached?
>>>
>>
>> No,  lsusb hangs, with no output
>>
>
> Now lsusb on mouse-usb gives the following output:
>
> [user@sys-usb ~]$ lsusb
> Bus 003 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
> Bus 008 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
> Bus 007 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
> Bus 006 Device 002: ID 046d:c408 Logitech, Inc. Marble Mouse (4-button)
> Bus 006 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
> Bus 005 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
> Bus 004 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
> Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
> Bus 001 Device 002: ID 0627:0001 Adomax Technology Co., Ltd QEMU USB Tablet
> Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
>
> So yes, I see the mouse attached
>
> .
>>
>>> If you attach another usb device, does lsusb and dmesg show the device
>>> being attached?
>>>
>>
>> dmesg on mouse qube gives a lot of errors, even various red ones. But I
>> am totally unable to understand if they are serious or related to the mouse
>> issue.
>>
>>
> Yes I see a usb key attached
>
> dmesg and journalctl are enclosed as an html files with full colors
>
>
>
Other strange things happened:
To restore a backup I connected an external USB disk with the backup to the
second USB qube and under the restore command I clicked on the external USB
disk to mount it. When I did that, a black background message on the upper
right part of the screen told me that the disk was removed, while, at the
same time it was NOT removed at all because the triangle showed that the
disk was mounted and the  content of the external USB disk was shown. Using
my old and trusted x230 for many years this never happened. So I suppose it
is strange.

Also, the computer seems much slower than my old x230, which is strange
being a new computer

If you want me to try commands and report results, just ask, I am very
willing to do anything that may be helpful to solve these problems.
best

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Re: [qubes-users] USB controllers

[Unman]

Very sorry to hear of your problems.
Equally happy to help you (as far as I can) with resolving these issues,
so if you do want to keep working on this, let the list know how it
goes, and we will provide whatever help we can.

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Re: [qubes-users] USB controllers

[Franz]

On Sat, Jun 12, 2021 at 8:51 AM Unman  wrote:

> On Sat, Jun 12, 2021 at 08:23:48AM -0300, Franz wrote:
> > >
> > >> take a look to the `qvm-pci` man page, it explains how to detach.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > > Many thanks it worked perfectly
> > >
> >
> > It worked perfectly for a week or so, then the mouse stopped working.
> > Thomas at Vikings, who built the D8 computer with preinstalled coreboot,
> > says it should be a Qubes issue.
> >
> > How may I tell if it is a Qubes issue or a hardware issue?
> > best
> >
>
> You aren't clear on what is happened here, because you haven't provided
> sufficient detail..
> Do you mean that you allocated a USB controller to a sys-usb, to use
> with the mouse. After a week, the mouse stopped working.
> When both controllers were attached to a single usb-qube the mouse
> worked without interruption.
> Is that the position?
>

Yes, but it worked also when only one USB controller was allocated to the
mouse qube.

>
> Did the other USB qube continue to work?
>

yes it works, I am able to mount an external USB drive. Also lsusb works
and shows the external USB drive


> If you type lsusb in the "mouse"-usb do you see the mouse attached?
>

No,  lsusb hangs, with no output
.

> If you attach another usb device, does lsusb and dmesg show the device
> being attached?
>

dmesg on mouse qube gives a lot of errors, even various red ones. But I am
totally unable to understand if they are serious or related to the mouse
issue.

If you attach the mouse to the *other* usb qube, does it appear there?
>

yes lsusb shows it there.

If you revert to a single usb qube, does the mouse work for more than a
> week there?
>

I have not tried it yet, but I no longer have the original single USB qube,
so I should reinstall Qubes from zero.

If you move the mouse to the other controller, does the mouse work for
> more than a week?
>

I have not tried it yet, because I wanted to keep it separated. The
controller allocated to the mouse qube is on the motherboard and
administered by coreboot, but the controller allocated on the USB-key qube
is on a PCI card and I know nothing about it. But I am quite sure it would
work because lsusb works, mouse is recognized and disks are mounted.


> Let's think about this.
> Many Qubes users will be using coreboot.
> Many Qubes users will be using more than one usb qube.
> Many Qubes users use a usb mouse for more than one week without
> incident.
> What is different about you? Coreboot, Your hardware.
> I am not saying that your hardware is at fault - it's just that the most
> likely source is *your configuration and hardware in Qubes*.
>
> Of course, if Vikings can point to other users with your hardware and
> coreboot build who use Qubes without a problem, that would help too.
>
>
I asked but Thomas suggested asking the Qubes ML.


> I would prepare another usb mouse, that can work with the other usb
> qube. Use your mouse-usb qube until it "breaks". Plug the mouse in to
> the other usb qube, and start looking at the "broken" usb qube.
> Look in logs, for any events that might be associated with the loss of
> mouse. Remove and reinsert the broken mouse to see how it is handled.
> Remove and reinsert other usb devices to see how they are handled.
> journalctl, dmesg are your friends, as well as basic troubleshooting.
> (Another mouse, use the other controller, etc)
>
>

I understand what you  mean. Your suggestions are all well thought, very
sound and give some hope. The weak point is my capacity to make use of the
error messages of dmesg and journalctl.

Really I am a bit depressed about it. I spent $5000 on that computer ($2500
for the computer and 2500 for importation tax to South America) and also
for some reason it is unable to reboot and also the fans go full speed all
the time because coreboot is unable to administer it. It makes a terrible
noise. Well years ago Taiidan on this ML said there is a way to administer
the fans of D8 by buying some additional equipment, but nobody really knows
what to buy and how to make it work.

So even basic things like mouse, reboot and noise are super complicated and
time consuming. I wonder how it is that on the Qubes HCL this computer is
marked as fully working.

But Unman really many thanks. Your effort to help and your brilliant
expertise are obvious. At least now there is some hope. Before your
intervention I was already contemplating using the computer as a $5000
bedside table, at least it has a nice black mirror door that can accomodate
a book to read before sleeping.

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Re: [qubes-users] USB controllers

[Unman]

On Sat, Jun 12, 2021 at 08:23:48AM -0300, Franz wrote:
> >
> >> take a look to the `qvm-pci` man page, it explains how to detach.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > Many thanks it worked perfectly
> >
> 
> It worked perfectly for a week or so, then the mouse stopped working.
> Thomas at Vikings, who built the D8 computer with preinstalled coreboot,
> says it should be a Qubes issue.
> 
> How may I tell if it is a Qubes issue or a hardware issue?
> best
> 

You aren't clear on what is happened here, because you haven't provided
sufficient detail..
Do you mean that you allocated a USB controller to a sys-usb, to use
with the mouse. After a week, the mouse stopped working.
When both controllers were attached to a single usb-qube the mouse
worked without interruption.
Is that the position?

Did the other USB qube continue to work?
If you type lsusb in the "mouse"-usb do you see the mouse attached?
If you attach another usb device, does lsusb and dmesg show the device
being attached?
If you attach the mouse to the *other* usb qube, does it appear there?
If you revert to a single usb qube, does the mouse work for more than a
week there?
If you move the mouse to the other controller, does the mouse work for
more than a week?

Let's think about this.
Many Qubes users will be using coreboot.
Many Qubes users will be using more than one usb qube.
Many Qubes users use a usb mouse for more than one week without
incident.
What is different about you? Coreboot, Your hardware.
I am not saying that your hardware is at fault - it's just that the most
likely source is *your configuration and hardware in Qubes*.

Of course, if Vikings can point to other users with your hardware and
coreboot build who use Qubes without a problem, that would help too.

I would prepare another usb mouse, that can work with the other usb
qube. Use your mouse-usb qube until it "breaks". Plug the mouse in to
the other usb qube, and start looking at the "broken" usb qube.
Look in logs, for any events that might be associated with the loss of
mouse. Remove and reinsert the broken mouse to see how it is handled.
Remove and reinsert other usb devices to see how they are handled.
journalctl, dmesg are your friends, as well as basic troubleshooting.
(Another mouse, use the other controller, etc)


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Re: [qubes-users] USB controllers

[Franz]

>
>> take a look to the `qvm-pci` man page, it explains how to detach.
>>
>>
>>
> Many thanks it worked perfectly
>

It worked perfectly for a week or so, then the mouse stopped working.
Thomas at Vikings, who built the D8 computer with preinstalled coreboot,
says it should be a Qubes issue.

How may I tell if it is a Qubes issue or a hardware issue?
best

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Re: [qubes-users] USB controllers

[Franz]

On Wed, Jun 2, 2021 at 6:12 PM Ludovic Bellier 
wrote:

> On 02/06/2021 at 21:20, Franz wrote :
>
>
>
> So followed the CLI instructions https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/pci-devices/
> qvm-pci gives the address of the usbcontroller to be detached
> dom0:00_.14.5 and tells the following:
> sys-2usb (no-strict-rest=True),  sys-usb (no-strict-reset=true)
>
> Because the linked Qubes instructions apparently only teach how to attach,
> but not how to detach
>
> Hi Franz,
>
> take a look to the `qvm-pci` man page, it explains how to detach.
>
>
>
Many thanks it worked perfectly

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Re: [qubes-users] USB controllers

[Ludovic Bellier]

On 02/06/2021 at 21:20, Franz wrote :



So followed the CLI instructions 
https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/pci-devices/ 

qvm-pci gives the address of the usbcontroller to be detached 
dom0:00_.14.5 and tells the following:

sys-2usb (no-strict-rest=True),  sys-usb (no-strict-reset=true)

Because the linked Qubes instructions apparently only teach how to 
attach, but not how to detach


Hi Franz,

take a look to the `qvm-pci` man page, it explains how to detach.



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Re: [qubes-users] USB controllers

[Franz]

On Wed, Jun 2, 2021 at 2:48 PM Franz <169...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Jun 2, 2021 at 10:42 AM unman  wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Jun 02, 2021 at 09:03:46AM -0300, Franz wrote:
>> > Hello all,
>> >
>> > After standard installation using a PS2 keyboard, I should have two
>> > separate usb controllers in the same sys-usb qube. I would prefer to
>> have
>> > two distinct sys-usb so using one more secure for the mouse (PS2 mouse
>> does
>> > not work) that should be somehow connected to dom0 and the other less
>> > secure for external USB disks.
>> > i carefully examined the Qubes papers
>> > https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/usb-qubes/#enable-a-usb-keyboard-for-login
>> > but I am still very confused.
>> > Which is the proper way to do that?
>> > Best Franz
>> >
>>
>> You can simply qvm-clone the existing sys-usb, and then fix up the
>> controller allocation between the two.
>> You can also set autostart with qvm-prefs for the "less secure" so that
>> it is not started by default. This will mean that you have to
>> consciously start that usb qube if you want to use external devices.
>> You might also consider using udev rules, or blacklisting modules in the
>> "mouse" usb, so that it cannot be used with other USB devices.
>>
>>
> The idea to clone sys-usb is brilliant and seems easy, Unman. I will try
> to do that. Many thanks
>
>
 So, I did the cloning, but without a mouse I am unable to detach the
relevant US usb controller from the second sys-usb, using Qubes Manager
because the keyboard seems unable to move it from Selected to Available.

So followed the CLI instructions https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/pci-devices/
qvm-pci gives the address of the usbcontroller to be detached dom0:00_.14.5
and tells the following:
sys-2usb (no-strict-rest=True),  sys-usb (no-strict-reset=true)

Because the linked Qubes instructions apparently only teach how to attach,
but not how to detach, I tried the following:
qvm-pci attach sys-usb dom0:00_14.5
but it replies: device dom0:00_14.5 of class pci already attached to sys-usb
and nothing is done.

So, I do not know how to go on. I would need a command to detach
dom0:00_14.5 from sys-2usb without attaching it elsewhere.
Best.

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Re: [qubes-users] USB controllers

[Franz]

On Wed, Jun 2, 2021 at 10:42 AM unman  wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 02, 2021 at 09:03:46AM -0300, Franz wrote:
> > Hello all,
> >
> > After standard installation using a PS2 keyboard, I should have two
> > separate usb controllers in the same sys-usb qube. I would prefer to have
> > two distinct sys-usb so using one more secure for the mouse (PS2 mouse
> does
> > not work) that should be somehow connected to dom0 and the other less
> > secure for external USB disks.
> > i carefully examined the Qubes papers
> > https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/usb-qubes/#enable-a-usb-keyboard-for-login
> > but I am still very confused.
> > Which is the proper way to do that?
> > Best Franz
> >
>
> You can simply qvm-clone the existing sys-usb, and then fix up the
> controller allocation between the two.
> You can also set autostart with qvm-prefs for the "less secure" so that
> it is not started by default. This will mean that you have to
> consciously start that usb qube if you want to use external devices.
> You might also consider using udev rules, or blacklisting modules in the
> "mouse" usb, so that it cannot be used with other USB devices.
>
>
The idea to clone sys-usb is brilliant and seems easy, Unman. I will try to
do that. Many thanks

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Re: [qubes-users] USB controllers

[unman]

On Wed, Jun 02, 2021 at 09:03:46AM -0300, Franz wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> After standard installation using a PS2 keyboard, I should have two
> separate usb controllers in the same sys-usb qube. I would prefer to have
> two distinct sys-usb so using one more secure for the mouse (PS2 mouse does
> not work) that should be somehow connected to dom0 and the other less
> secure for external USB disks.
> i carefully examined the Qubes papers
> https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/usb-qubes/#enable-a-usb-keyboard-for-login
> but I am still very confused.
> Which is the proper way to do that?
> Best Franz
> 

You can simply qvm-clone the existing sys-usb, and then fix up the
controller allocation between the two.
You can also set autostart with qvm-prefs for the "less secure" so that
it is not started by default. This will mean that you have to
consciously start that usb qube if you want to use external devices.
You might also consider using udev rules, or blacklisting modules in the
"mouse" usb, so that it cannot be used with other USB devices.

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[qubes-users] USB controllers

[Franz]

Hello all,

After standard installation using a PS2 keyboard, I should have two
separate usb controllers in the same sys-usb qube. I would prefer to have
two distinct sys-usb so using one more secure for the mouse (PS2 mouse does
not work) that should be somehow connected to dom0 and the other less
secure for external USB disks.
i carefully examined the Qubes papers
https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/usb-qubes/#enable-a-usb-keyboard-for-login
but I am still very confused.
Which is the proper way to do that?
Best Franz

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