Re: [RBW] Re: King Grip Pedals

[Rex Kerr]

Well, I just finished overhauling my King Grips.  Not excited to have to do
it when they're brand new, but it seems to have gotten rid of the
clicking! I'll try a longer test ride in a few days, too busy right now and
have to ride a different bike on Friday.  They were surprisingly dry,
almost no grease at all from the factory!!

Unfortunately I did manage to crack one of the dust covers, but it went
back in OK and seems to be secure.  I'll have to order a new set next time
I'm ordering stuff, don't want to pay shipping for such a small order.

I also ordered and installed a set of Specialized BG pedal extenders, which
really helped with the feeling of being off centered.  My long, size 14,
feet which point out have always preferred extra long pedal spindles, so
I'm glad I finally broke down and bought those.  Got another set for my MKS
touring pedals too.  Didn't seem to make pedal strike much worse, and
hopefully I'll not be hitting the ground even more!!

On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 4:01 PM, Rex Kerr  wrote:

> Well documented clicking?  On my ride home yesterday (after writing the
> original post in this thread) I started hearing a clicking.  Wasn't sure if
> it was my seatpost/saddle interface (since I'd recently moved the saddle)
> or the pedal, but was fairly sure it was the pedal.  Ugh... < 20 miles to
> clicking.
>
> Are they loose bearings?  How hard was it to remove the spindle?
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 3:14 PM, Shifty <1upand1d...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Also, I repacked mine after about 500 miles upon acquiring the well
>> documented MKS clicking. On removal, sure enough there's a mere dab of
>> factory lubrication so I drown the tiny little bearings in Rock 'n Roll
>> Super Web grease. Now they spin like a pedal worth 5 times the price.
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Image Request: Boscoe Bars from Above

[Joe Bunik]

Scrutinizing my low res photos, I should add that the bolt of the
quill stem is centered somewhat between the 17" and 18" mark on the
tape- hence bar ends extend rearward another 6" beyond (8" with barend
fully straight).

=- Joe

On 7/24/12, Joe Bunik  wrote:
> Hmm... I avoid the bar end knee strike by virtue of the long stem (and
> possibly top tube) - interesting to see how you set yours up more
> MTB-style, John. I'll say though, the bars do give a Nice Big Ride
> quality - this long chainstayed Trek rides like a limo- or a paperboy
> bike. My feeble attempt at emulating the tentacular spectacular Bosco
> Rubbe! ;-)
>
> Joe
>
> On 7/24/12, John Blish  wrote:
>> Rob,
>>
>> These pics are not what you asked for but they do show a Bosco mounted on
>> on a '91 MB-1.  Might give you some idea about your own intended set-up.
>> Any questions?  I am happy to help if I can.
>>
>> https://picasaweb.google.com/114723594013845712604/1991MB1July242012?authkey=Gv1sRgCMTr-8CUvv72LQ
>>
>> The bars do not get in my way but sometimes that involves taking a foot
>> off
>> the pedal and extending that leg more straight down to the ground to
>> avoid
>> the end of the bar when making a tight turn - keeping the knee and thigh
>> out of the way.  It all comes very naturally and there have been no
>> awkward
>> moments in connection with the bars.  Fact is, with the Big Apples and
>> the
>> Bosco bars it is not that different than driving a '56 Buick.
>>
>> If you need a specific shot in addition to what Joe sent, let me know.
>>
>> -jb
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 8:26 PM, Rob  wrote:
>>
>>> Does anyone have a pic of the bullmoose (or any) Bosco Bars from above,
>>> looking directly down at 'em? Not from the cockpit, but as if you were
>>> standing on a ladder directly overhead?
>>>
>>> I'd like to see how far back behind the quill the ends of the bars fall,
>>> and get a better idea of the angle. Thinking about a Bosco as a bar for
>>> my
>>> '91 MB-3, which'll still be a mountain-ish bike.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Rob in Seattle
>>>
>>> --
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> John Blish
>> Minneapolis MN USA
>>
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Re: [RBW] Image Request: Boscoe Bars from Above

[Joe Bunik]

Hmm... I avoid the bar end knee strike by virtue of the long stem (and
possibly top tube) - interesting to see how you set yours up more
MTB-style, John. I'll say though, the bars do give a Nice Big Ride
quality - this long chainstayed Trek rides like a limo- or a paperboy
bike. My feeble attempt at emulating the tentacular spectacular Bosco
Rubbe! ;-)

Joe

On 7/24/12, John Blish  wrote:
> Rob,
>
> These pics are not what you asked for but they do show a Bosco mounted on
> on a '91 MB-1.  Might give you some idea about your own intended set-up.
> Any questions?  I am happy to help if I can.
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/114723594013845712604/1991MB1July242012?authkey=Gv1sRgCMTr-8CUvv72LQ
>
> The bars do not get in my way but sometimes that involves taking a foot off
> the pedal and extending that leg more straight down to the ground to avoid
> the end of the bar when making a tight turn - keeping the knee and thigh
> out of the way.  It all comes very naturally and there have been no awkward
> moments in connection with the bars.  Fact is, with the Big Apples and the
> Bosco bars it is not that different than driving a '56 Buick.
>
> If you need a specific shot in addition to what Joe sent, let me know.
>
> -jb
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 8:26 PM, Rob  wrote:
>
>> Does anyone have a pic of the bullmoose (or any) Bosco Bars from above,
>> looking directly down at 'em? Not from the cockpit, but as if you were
>> standing on a ladder directly overhead?
>>
>> I'd like to see how far back behind the quill the ends of the bars fall,
>> and get a better idea of the angle. Thinking about a Bosco as a bar for
>> my
>> '91 MB-3, which'll still be a mountain-ish bike.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Rob in Seattle
>>
>> --
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>
>
>
> --
> John Blish
> Minneapolis MN USA
>
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[RBW] Re: Image Request: Boscoe Bars from Above

[Andy Smitty Schmidt]

Just for you, Rob... 
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/rdv8D5eDwhPB0lhsb1sgHNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
If you need more details than what's in the caption, give a holler. 
--Andy 

On Tuesday, July 24, 2012 6:26:20 PM UTC-7, Rob wrote:
>
> Does anyone have a pic of the bullmoose (or any) Bosco Bars from above, 
> looking directly down at 'em? Not from the cockpit, but as if you were 
> standing on a ladder directly overhead?
>
> I'd like to see how far back behind the quill the ends of the bars fall, 
> and get a better idea of the angle. Thinking about a Bosco as a bar for my 
> '91 MB-3, which'll still be a mountain-ish bike. 
>
> Thanks!
>
> Rob in Seattle
>

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Re: [RBW] Ride Report : Ajit's Ride Through Detroit

[Peter Morgano]

Awesome report, pictures are making me hungry!  I have never been west of
the Mississippi but Detroit looks pretty chill. Reminds me of Baltimore, a
hip place that doesn't want to make a big deal about it, unlike (ahem)
other cities.
On Jul 24, 2012 10:48 PM, "Peter Pesce"  wrote:

> Great photos! Thanks.
> I agree. We need less idyllic Cali cycling and more real world grit!  :)
>
> -Pete in (gritty) CT
>
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[RBW] Ride Report : Ajit's Ride Through Detroit

[Peter Pesce]

Great photos! Thanks. 
I agree. We need less idyllic Cali cycling and more real world grit!  :)

-Pete in (gritty) CT

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[RBW] Re: Grant on Brian Lehrer

[ted]

Curious. I think track racers were much slower than road racers to
adopt clipless systems. When I went to the velodrome (several years
ago but long after clipless became dominant on road bikes) the only
folks using clipless were the ones using their road bike pedals on the
rental bikes. Virtually everybody with their own track bike used clips
straps and slotted cleats. Clipless pedals were generally considered
less secure, and as you observe loosing a pedal on a fixed gear at
speed is much more inconvenient than it is when you can coast.
I still kinda like the unique sense you get riding a fixed gear with
old style cleats toe clips and straps.

On Jul 23, 9:32 pm, Peter Morgano  wrote:
> When I rode fixie for a long time I used the clipless system because I knew
> my foot wasnt going to come off down a descent and stick my leg into an MKS
> eggbeater. I always found that when climbing though clipless seemed like
> they limited how much i could stand up and just hammer on the pedals. I
> never thought upstroke was really more than hogwash, long before reading
> about grant's stuff. I lifted weights when I was wrestling and woudl do an
> exercise that looked alot like a back stroke on a bike and it made my legs
> burn and I had little power, I just dont think it is one that utilizes the
> big muscles in your legs the right way. Legs are made for pushing, not
> really for pulling.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 12:25 AM, Bertin753  wrote:
> > Actually, foot retention does help when grinding a fixed 70 -- 75" gear up
> > a steep hill. You can't do it for long  -- half a mile, say -- but it
> > certainly helps. One reason I went back to clipless was that I kept pulling
> > my feet out of the straps when climbing
>
> > Patrick Moore
> > iPhone
>
> > On Jul 23, 2012, at 10:10 PM, Peter Morgano 
> > wrote:
>
> > My favorite comment of all was
>
> >  "Mike In Bklyn from Brooklyn
>
> > Boy there was a lot of misleading info in this segment.
>
> > On clips and pulling up on the pedals-- anyone who tries to pedal a bike
> > out of the saddle comes quickly to appreciate clips. And I don't know what
> > kind of riding this quy has done, but he should try climbing a 9% grade
> > hill and then tell me whether could do so without pulling up on pedals"
> > Take that grant, i bet he is always just wishing he had those clipless
> > pedals up Mt Diablo, since as another guy said the ones without clips ruin
> > our knees. What a bunch of mouth breathers, this is why bikesnob has just
> > been able to eviscerate the culture around bikes, it can just get so silly.
> > And while it is a shame not everyone can afford a Rivendell that doesnt
> > make them out of reach, I mean these people should think about how much
> > money they piss away on cars and gas, you will make your money back pretty
> > fast.
>
> > On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 11:51 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
> >> I'm in full support of not riding with a helmet if that's what you
> >> choose, but stories from old guys who made it through their youths without
> >> them are easy to come by from the ones who actually made it, 'cause, ya
> >> know, we made it! I crashed a goodly number of times on my old Stingrays
> >> and 10-speeds, and banged my head hard a few times. I'm lucky I got away
> >> with it, and usually wear a helmet now.
>
> >> Joe Bernard
> >> Vallejo, CA.
>
> >> On Monday, July 23, 2012 8:31:38 PM UTC-7, charlie wrote:
>
> >>> Great job Grant..in such a limited format.don't let some of
> >>> doz guyz get ya down. Controversy always gets attention. Its just too bad
> >>> many still believe the common misconceptions you often speak of. I used to
> >>> think many of things you speak about were necessary (clipless pedals,
> >>> cycling specific clothing, helmets all that stuff) until I actually 
> >>> thought
> >>> about it critically and remembered my youth and all the riding we did
> >>> without any of that stuff. I actually did ride a bicycle like most of the
> >>> rest of the world did and still does with.no helmet, no special
> >>> 'kit', no special shoes, bars actually higher than my saddle, wider tires
> >>> and no emphasis on riding all bent over like a professional racer. Those
> >>> were some of the best bicycling years of my life.and I didn't die
> >>> (thankfully) from not wearing a helmet even though I crashed more than 
> >>> once.
>
> >>> On Monday, July 23, 2012 12:03:20 PM UTC-7, Peter M wrote:
>
>  Good discussion, comments on the bottom of the page prove what an
>  asshole place NYC is to live
>
> http://www.wnyc.org/shows/bl/**2012/jul/23/bicycling-101/?**
>  utm_source=feedburner&utm_**medium=%24%7Bfeed%7D&utm_**
>  campaign=Feed%3A+%24%7Bbl%7D+%**28%24%7BBrian+Lehrer%7D%29
>
> >>>  --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> >> To view this discussio

[RBW] Re: Grant on Brian Lehrer

[Mike]

With broken collarbones it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of
when...

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[RBW] Re: Seattle To SF Tour.

[Rob]

Sounds great! 

If you think of it, let us know when you'll be in Seattle. Maybe we can 
meet. Lots of excellent beer here to be sampled. :) 

Rob in Seattle

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[RBW] Image Request: Boscoe Bars from Above

[Rob]

Does anyone have a pic of the bullmoose (or any) Bosco Bars from above, 
looking directly down at 'em? Not from the cockpit, but as if you were 
standing on a ladder directly overhead?

I'd like to see how far back behind the quill the ends of the bars fall, 
and get a better idea of the angle. Thinking about a Bosco as a bar for my 
'91 MB-3, which'll still be a mountain-ish bike. 

Thanks!

Rob in Seattle

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Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on Brian Lehrer

[Joe Bernard]

*Except that collar bones, broken arms, road rash and what all won't kill
you and won't destroy your personality the way a brain injury can.*
 
Pre. Cisely.
 
Joe Bernard
Vallejo, CA.

On Tuesday, July 24, 2012 5:56:08 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:

> On Tue, 2012-07-24 at 17:52 -0700, Matthew J wrote: 
> > Thing is, more solo bike accidents conclude with busted knees, collar 
> > bones, arms, road rash than concussions or skull fractures. 
> > 
>
> Except that collar bones, broken arms, road rash and what all won't kill 
> you and won't destroy your personality the way a brain injury can. 
>
>
> > The shoulder, knee and elbow pads football players wear would 
> > certainly have made a difference in these situations.  None the less, 
> > day in and day out I see cyclists wearing helmets and little else.   
> > 
> > 
> > If helmet wearing cyclists don't think their lids are a panacea, I'll 
> > be darned if I understand why they worry so little about the rest of 
> > their bodies when viable protective gear is readily available. 
>
>
> You want to try riding a bike wearing football player body armor? 
>
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on Brian Lehrer

[Steve Palincsar]

On Tue, 2012-07-24 at 17:52 -0700, Matthew J wrote:
> Thing is, more solo bike accidents conclude with busted knees, collar
> bones, arms, road rash than concussions or skull fractures.
> 

Except that collar bones, broken arms, road rash and what all won't kill
you and won't destroy your personality the way a brain injury can.


> The shoulder, knee and elbow pads football players wear would
> certainly have made a difference in these situations.  None the less,
> day in and day out I see cyclists wearing helmets and little else.  
> 
> 
> If helmet wearing cyclists don't think their lids are a panacea, I'll
> be darned if I understand why they worry so little about the rest of
> their bodies when viable protective gear is readily available.


You want to try riding a bike wearing football player body armor?




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Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on Brian Lehrer

[Matthew J]

Thing is, more solo bike accidents conclude with busted knees, collar 
bones, arms, road rash than concussions or skull fractures.

The shoulder, knee and elbow pads football players wear would certainly 
have made a difference in these situations.  None the less, day in and day 
out I see cyclists wearing helmets and little else.  

If helmet wearing cyclists don't think their lids are a panacea, I'll be 
darned if I understand why they worry so little about the rest of their 
bodies when viable protective gear is readily available.

On Tuesday, July 24, 2012 6:16:02 PM UTC-5, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> I don't consider it a matter of life and death; rather, going home sore, 
> or going home with a concussion. A helmet isn't gonna do you much good in a 
> collision with a car, but most riders have at one time or another had some 
> sort of solo crash. A popped tire, a slide on oil, front wheel caught in a 
> crack in the road. These are the events that take you from upright to 
> body-slamming the pavement. I would prefer to have my helmet take that 
> bounce when my head reaches rapid deceleration.
>  
> Joe Bernard
> Vallejo, CA.
>
> On Tuesday, July 24, 2012 3:57:11 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 2012-07-24 at 18:35 -0400, Peter Morgano wrote: 
>> > Oh, I agree, i am one of the better safe than sorry worry warts who 
>> > makes sure he has his keys twice before he locks the door behind him. 
>> > I do think that helmets can prevent injury but I just dont know if 
>> > they can save your life in a situation where you would otherwise be 
>> > killed. 
>>
>> Probably sometimes, but certainly not always.   
>>
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Ride Report : Ajit's Ride Through Detroit

[Mike]

Looks like a good time. An excellent urban ramble. We need more post
like this on this list.

This was my favorite picture:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/amisingh/7636734796/in/set-72157630727710932

--mike

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[RBW] Re: Brooks Despatch

[pb]

Is the geometry of the Mercian at the bottom of the page as tradly as it 
appears on that page?  It looks positively Edwardian.  DL-1-ian.  
Roadsterian.
 
Can also be seen on the John Boultbee clothing page, looking similar.
 
Peter
San Diego
 
 
 
   
On Tuesday, July 24, 2012 2:05:57 PM UTC-7, Jim Cloud wrote:

> I just received the latest "Brooks Despatch" in my e-mail folder this 
> morning.  Here's a link if any of you are interested: 
>
>
> http://us1.campaign-archive1.com/?u=779d0fc02cc4843db052687bf&id=e949f9f1f0&e=1885fd186c
>  
>
> I thought it was interesting that Brooks now makes their leather bags 
> in Britain (Birmingham), and canvas baggage in Italy (Tuscany). This 
> is a change from their previous manufacture in China. 
>
> Whatever your opinions are pertaining to the Chinese manufacture of 
> bicycle products, I think its nice to see them return to their 
> proximate point of origin.  When I think of Brooks, I definitely think 
> of a traditional British product. 
>
> *Note:  Many of these products aren't inexpensive, but they weren't 
> inexpensive when sourced from China either! 
>
> Jim Cloud 
> Tucson, AZ 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on Brian Lehrer

[Steve Palincsar]

On Tue, 2012-07-24 at 16:16 -0700, Joe Bernard wrote:
> I don't consider it a matter of life and death; rather, going home
> sore, or going home with a concussion. A helmet isn't gonna do you
> much good in a collision with a car, but most riders have at one time
> or another had some sort of solo crash. A popped tire, a slide on oil,
> front wheel caught in a crack in the road. These are the events that
> take you from upright to body-slamming the pavement. I would prefer to
> have my helmet take that bounce when my head reaches rapid
> deceleration.

Exactly so.  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on Brian Lehrer

[Joe Bernard]

I don't consider it a matter of life and death; rather, going home sore, or 
going home with a concussion. A helmet isn't gonna do you much good in a 
collision with a car, but most riders have at one time or another had some 
sort of solo crash. A popped tire, a slide on oil, front wheel caught in a 
crack in the road. These are the events that take you from upright to 
body-slamming the pavement. I would prefer to have my helmet take that 
bounce when my head reaches rapid deceleration.
 
Joe Bernard
Vallejo, CA.

On Tuesday, July 24, 2012 3:57:11 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:

> On Tue, 2012-07-24 at 18:35 -0400, Peter Morgano wrote: 
> > Oh, I agree, i am one of the better safe than sorry worry warts who 
> > makes sure he has his keys twice before he locks the door behind him. 
> > I do think that helmets can prevent injury but I just dont know if 
> > they can save your life in a situation where you would otherwise be 
> > killed. 
>
> Probably sometimes, but certainly not always.   
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on Brian Lehrer

[Steve Palincsar]

On Tue, 2012-07-24 at 18:35 -0400, Peter Morgano wrote:
> Oh, I agree, i am one of the better safe than sorry worry warts who
> makes sure he has his keys twice before he locks the door behind him.
> I do think that helmets can prevent injury but I just dont know if
> they can save your life in a situation where you would otherwise be
> killed.

Probably sometimes, but certainly not always.  



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Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on Brian Lehrer

[Peter Morgano]

Oh, I agree, i am one of the better safe than sorry worry warts who makes
sure he has his keys twice before he locks the door behind him. I do think
that helmets can prevent injury but I just dont know if they can save your
life in a situation where you would otherwise be killed.

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 6:16 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:

> On Tue, 2012-07-24 at 17:49 -0400, Peter Morgano wrote:
> > I have also crashed and thought the helmet stopped me from being hurt
> > worse than I could have been but studies have shown that is just how
> > we feel, which is not always accurate to what is actually going on.
> > The evidence is pretty substantial that putting and inch of foam
> > between your head and the road isnt really going to save you, its not
> > like an airbag or a crumple zone or anything that substanial. I will
> > continue to wear mine though and hope for the day where instead of
> > putting batteries in shifters the bike bike companies can work on a
> > helmet strong enough to actually save our lives.
>
> Peter, when the evidence is half-inch deep gouges in the outer shell and
> through the foam, the only question is, "Would you rather have those
> gouges in your helmet, or in the skin on your face and head?"
> Completely unambiguous.
>
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on Brian Lehrer

[Steve Palincsar]

On Tue, 2012-07-24 at 17:49 -0400, Peter Morgano wrote:
> I have also crashed and thought the helmet stopped me from being hurt
> worse than I could have been but studies have shown that is just how
> we feel, which is not always accurate to what is actually going on.
> The evidence is pretty substantial that putting and inch of foam
> between your head and the road isnt really going to save you, its not
> like an airbag or a crumple zone or anything that substanial. I will
> continue to wear mine though and hope for the day where instead of
> putting batteries in shifters the bike bike companies can work on a
> helmet strong enough to actually save our lives.

Peter, when the evidence is half-inch deep gouges in the outer shell and
through the foam, the only question is, "Would you rather have those
gouges in your helmet, or in the skin on your face and head?"
Completely unambiguous.  



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[RBW] Re: FS: New in Box - Edulux, SonDelux, Stans ZTR 355 rims, Hetres

[Kevin Mulcahy]

Only the rims are still available

Thank you!
Kevin

On Tuesday, July 24, 2012 1:18:31 PM UTC-5, Kevin Mulcahy wrote:
>
> I've got some fancy parts leftover from a rando build that never 
> materialized:
>
> Everything is NIB
> Silver Edulux $150
> 32h Silver SonDelux hub $240
> (2x) 32h Stans ZTR 355 650b rims $150
> (2x) 605b x 42mm Hetres, black tread $100
>
> offers accepted, Buyer pays shipping (and tracking/insurance if they so 
> desire)
>
> Thanks!
> Kevin 
> Chicago, IL

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Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on Brian Lehrer

[Peter Morgano]

I have also crashed and thought the helmet stopped me from being hurt worse
than I could have been but studies have shown that is just how we feel,
which is not always accurate to what is actually going on.  The evidence is
pretty substantial that putting and inch of foam between your head and the
road isnt really going to save you, its not like an airbag or a crumple
zone or anything that substanial. I will continue to wear mine though and
hope for the day where instead of putting batteries in shifters the bike
bike companies can work on a helmet strong enough to actually save our
lives.
On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 4:56 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:

> On Tue, 2012-07-24 at 16:09 -0400, Peter Morgano wrote:
> > I think that what Grant is driving at is that while seatbelts and
> > other safety improvements have gone a long way to save lives (in cars,
> > sorry) helmet technology simply has not advanced that far and is being
> > applied as a panacea to tell people they are "safer" when in fact they
> > are probably not.
>
> I think there are many here who have crashed while wearing a helmet and
> have the evidence that in fact they /were/ safer because of it.  I'm one
> of them.
>
>
>
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[RBW] Brooks Despatch

[Jim Cloud]

I just received the latest "Brooks Despatch" in my e-mail folder this
morning.  Here's a link if any of you are interested:

http://us1.campaign-archive1.com/?u=779d0fc02cc4843db052687bf&id=e949f9f1f0&e=1885fd186c

I thought it was interesting that Brooks now makes their leather bags
in Britain (Birmingham), and canvas baggage in Italy (Tuscany). This
is a change from their previous manufacture in China.

Whatever your opinions are pertaining to the Chinese manufacture of
bicycle products, I think its nice to see them return to their
proximate point of origin.  When I think of Brooks, I definitely think
of a traditional British product.

*Note:  Many of these products aren't inexpensive, but they weren't
inexpensive when sourced from China either!

Jim Cloud
Tucson, AZ

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Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on Brian Lehrer

[Steve Palincsar]

On Tue, 2012-07-24 at 16:09 -0400, Peter Morgano wrote:
> I think that what Grant is driving at is that while seatbelts and
> other safety improvements have gone a long way to save lives (in cars,
> sorry) helmet technology simply has not advanced that far and is being
> applied as a panacea to tell people they are "safer" when in fact they
> are probably not.  

I think there are many here who have crashed while wearing a helmet and
have the evidence that in fact they /were/ safer because of it.  I'm one
of them.  



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Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on Brian Lehrer

[Steve Palincsar]

On Tue, 2012-07-24 at 13:26 -0700, Norman Bone wrote:
> Hi Steve-
> 
> 
> Have you read this?:
> http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/Presence-of-Mind-Buckle-Up-And-Behave.html
> 


I'm with Anne McCartt.  As I said, I was there.  I know how people drove
then and I know how people drive now.   It's a facile theory, full of
something that begins with s and fury, signifying nothing.

;-)



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Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on Brian Lehrer

[Norman Bone]

Hi Steve-

Have you read this?:
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/Presence-of-Mind-Buckle-Up-And-Behave.html

Norman in Portland, OR




 From: Steve Palincsar 
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on Brian Lehrer
 
On Tue, 2012-07-24 at 12:47 -0700, Jim Cloud wrote:
> 
> I also don't agree with Grant that wearing a helmet necessarily
> promotes a riskier still of riding.  I've ridden both without a helmet
> and with a helmet, and I don't believe that my riding style changes
> one iota.

Were the "safety equipment begets riskier activity" argument true, when
we look back on driving cars in the 1950s -- back in the days of
spear-you-through-the-chest steering columns and steel dashboards with
big knobs that would smash your skull and no seatbelts so you'd go
flying through the windshield or into the dashboard or get impaled on
the steering column -- you would expect to see safer driving habits than
you see now.  And those of us who were there can tell you with
authority, there was no such thing.





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Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on Brian Lehrer

[Peter Morgano]

I think that what Grant is driving at is that while seatbelts and other
safety improvements have gone a long way to save lives (in cars,
sorry) helmet technology simply has not advanced that far and is being
applied as a panacea to tell people they are "safer" when in fact they are
probably not.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/1999/jun/15/healthandwellbeing.health1



Like I have said, I wear one but I also ride cautiously, I have a family
that needs me at home so they can annoy me about how I ride too much

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 4:06 PM, Peter Morgano wrote:

> I think that what Grant is driving at is that while seatbelts and other
> safety improvements have gone a long way to save lives helmet technology
> simply has not advanced that far and is being applied as a panacea to tell
> people they are "safer" when in fact they are probably not.
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/1999/jun/15/healthandwellbeing.health1
>
> Like I have said, I wear one but I also ride cautiously, I have a family
> that needs me at home so they can annoy me about how I ride too much
>
> On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 2012-07-24 at 12:47 -0700, Jim Cloud wrote:
>> >
>> > I also don't agree with Grant that wearing a helmet necessarily
>> > promotes a riskier still of riding.  I've ridden both without a helmet
>> > and with a helmet, and I don't believe that my riding style changes
>> > one iota.
>>
>> Were the "safety equipment begets riskier activity" argument true, when
>> we look back on driving cars in the 1950s -- back in the days of
>> spear-you-through-the-chest steering columns and steel dashboards with
>> big knobs that would smash your skull and no seatbelts so you'd go
>> flying through the windshield or into the dashboard or get impaled on
>> the steering column -- you would expect to see safer driving habits than
>> you see now.  And those of us who were there can tell you with
>> authority, there was no such thing.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on Brian Lehrer

[Peter Morgano]

I think that what Grant is driving at is that while seatbelts and other
safety improvements have gone a long way to save lives helmet technology
simply has not advanced that far and is being applied as a panacea to tell
people they are "safer" when in fact they are probably not.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/1999/jun/15/healthandwellbeing.health1

Like I have said, I wear one but I also ride cautiously, I have a family
that needs me at home so they can annoy me about how I ride too much

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:

> On Tue, 2012-07-24 at 12:47 -0700, Jim Cloud wrote:
> >
> > I also don't agree with Grant that wearing a helmet necessarily
> > promotes a riskier still of riding.  I've ridden both without a helmet
> > and with a helmet, and I don't believe that my riding style changes
> > one iota.
>
> Were the "safety equipment begets riskier activity" argument true, when
> we look back on driving cars in the 1950s -- back in the days of
> spear-you-through-the-chest steering columns and steel dashboards with
> big knobs that would smash your skull and no seatbelts so you'd go
> flying through the windshield or into the dashboard or get impaled on
> the steering column -- you would expect to see safer driving habits than
> you see now.  And those of us who were there can tell you with
> authority, there was no such thing.
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on Brian Lehrer

[Steve Palincsar]

On Tue, 2012-07-24 at 12:47 -0700, Jim Cloud wrote:
> 
> I also don't agree with Grant that wearing a helmet necessarily
> promotes a riskier still of riding.  I've ridden both without a helmet
> and with a helmet, and I don't believe that my riding style changes
> one iota.

Were the "safety equipment begets riskier activity" argument true, when
we look back on driving cars in the 1950s -- back in the days of
spear-you-through-the-chest steering columns and steel dashboards with
big knobs that would smash your skull and no seatbelts so you'd go
flying through the windshield or into the dashboard or get impaled on
the steering column -- you would expect to see safer driving habits than
you see now.  And those of us who were there can tell you with
authority, there was no such thing.





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Re: [RBW] too many bikes!

[Peter Morgano]

All too familiar, except of course for the last part, haha.

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 3:38 PM, Liesl  wrote:

> uh-oh, friends, I fear this is just about all of us talking to our
> significant other...
>
> http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/11176570/you-can-never-have-too-many-bikes
>
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[RBW] Re: Grant on Brian Lehrer

[Jim Cloud]

The choice to wear a helmet is entirely up to the individual and I
don't wish to start a pro-helmet/anti-helmet discussion.  I do,
however, find that my current preference is in favor of wearing a
helmet.

I also don't agree with Grant that wearing a helmet necessarily
promotes a riskier still of riding.  I've ridden both without a helmet
and with a helmet, and I don't believe that my riding style changes
one iota.

Jim Cloud
Tucson, AZ

On Jul 23, 8:51 pm, Joe Bernard  wrote:
> I'm in full support of not riding with a helmet if that's what you choose,
> but stories from old guys who made it through their youths without them are
> easy to come by from the ones who actually made it, 'cause, ya know, we
> made it! I crashed a goodly number of times on my old Stingrays and
> 10-speeds, and banged my head hard a few times. I'm lucky I got away with
> it, and usually wear a helmet now.
>
> Joe Bernard
> Vallejo, CA.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Monday, July 23, 2012 8:31:38 PM UTC-7, charlie wrote:
> > Great job Grant..in such a limited format.don't let some of
> > doz guyz get ya down. Controversy always gets attention. Its just too bad
> > many still believe the common misconceptions you often speak of. I used to
> > think many of things you speak about were necessary (clipless pedals,
> > cycling specific clothing, helmets all that stuff) until I actually thought
> > about it critically and remembered my youth and all the riding we did
> > without any of that stuff. I actually did ride a bicycle like most of the
> > rest of the world did and still does with.no helmet, no special
> > 'kit', no special shoes, bars actually higher than my saddle, wider tires
> > and no emphasis on riding all bent over like a professional racer. Those
> > were some of the best bicycling years of my life.and I didn't die
> > (thankfully) from not wearing a helmet even though I crashed more than once.
>
> > On Monday, July 23, 2012 12:03:20 PM UTC-7, Peter M wrote:
>
> >> Good discussion, comments on the bottom of the page prove what an
> >> asshole place NYC is to live
>
> >>http://www.wnyc.org/shows/bl/2012/jul/23/bicycling-101/?utm_source=fe...

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[RBW] too many bikes!

[Liesl]

uh-oh, friends, I fear this is just about all of us talking to our 
significant other...

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/11176570/you-can-never-have-too-many-bikes

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[RBW] Pedals

[Ryan Ray]

Started with platforms
Went to clips, then to clip-less
Finally: platforms

When I got back into cycling someone actually pointed out the Riv site to 
me. I read the articles, tried some stuff out. The Shoes Ruse was one of 
the articles I read more than once. I tried flat pedals with my vans and 
boat shoes and didn't like it. Once my soles were wet they had issues 
staying on the pedals and were not fun to spin in. So I went clipless and 
didn't have many of the issues other people had with them. I picked the 
double sided Shimano ones and they were fine.

Then I went camping a few times on my bike and decided it wasn't fun even 
to wear the SPD MTB style shoes around camp so I picked up some breathable 
meshy hiking shoes with good tread on the bottom. Now even when wet the non 
SPD side of my pedals feel good and don't slip. Turns out I didn't have the 
wrong pedals before I just had the wrong shoes. I can't imagine clipping in 
again anytime soon.

- Ryan



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[RBW] Re: FS: New in Box - Edulux, SonDelux, Stans ZTR 355 rims, Hetres

[Mitch Browne]

Kevin,

I will take the Hetres.

Mitch 

On Tuesday, July 24, 2012 11:18:31 AM UTC-7, Kevin Mulcahy wrote:
>
> I've got some fancy parts leftover from a rando build that never 
> materialized:
>
> Everything is NIB
> Silver Edulux $150
> 32h Silver SonDelux hub $240
> (2x) 32h Stans ZTR 355 650b rims $150
> (2x) 605b x 42mm Hetres, black tread $100
>
> offers accepted, Buyer pays shipping (and tracking/insurance if they so 
> desire)
>
> Thanks!
> Kevin 
> Chicago, IL

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[RBW] FS: New in Box - Edulux, SonDelux, Stans ZTR 355 rims, Hetres

[Kevin Mulcahy]

I've got some fancy parts leftover from a rando build that never 
materialized:

Everything is NIB
Silver Edulux $150
32h Silver SonDelux hub $240
(2x) 32h Stans ZTR 355 650b rims $150
(2x) 605b x 42mm Hetres, black tread $100

offers accepted, Buyer pays shipping (and tracking/insurance if they so 
desire)

Thanks!
Kevin 
Chicago, IL

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[RBW] Ride Report : Ajit's Ride Through Detroit

[Amit Singh]

My good friend Ajit was in town, visiting from Boston to attend his 
sister's baby shower.  He promised to spend Sunday with me.  Generally, 
when we get together, it involves adventure.  This time, we explored 
Detroit City by bicycle.

We saw lots of great wall art, had a few cups of rich and delicious Costa 
Rican coffee, some excellent baked goods from Avalon bakery, enjoyed a few 
beers at Mercury Bar (corktown), PJ's Lager House (corktown), The Old Miami 
(midtown) and The Woodbridge Pub (woodbridge).

We also explored Michigan Central Station (midtown), Financial DIstrict 
(downtown) Riverfront, Dequindere Cut and Eastern Market.  

We ended off the day with a dinner of pulled pork sandwiches, baked beans 
and mac & cheese from Slows to Go.

This was one of the best days of summer.  

Also, Ajit enjoyed his cycling experience and as a result, we are now on 
the lookout for a decent frame which has a similar ride, geometry and 
clearances to the 64cm Kogswell P/R Generation II.

"Seriously.  So much fun.  Detroit is pretty amazing."  -- Ajit

Pictures prove it 
happened: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amisingh/sets/72157630727710932/

And my favorite photo of the 
bunch: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amisingh/7636711716/

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Re: [RBW] Grant on Brian Lehrer

[Peter Morgano]

David, its just that the city for all of Doomberg's proselytizing is still
set up mainly for car traffic, even though a good bit of people dont
drive.  And the outer boroughs are really deprived, but that is par for the
course in the city.  I lived in the Hudson Valley on the border of NJ for
12 years where my parents still have a house so I do know how to get up
there and have ridden fire trails and parks upstate extensively but I live
on 80th street in Bay Ridge, takes an hour on the subway to just get to
NYC. Point to point on the train from here to westchester where my Dad
lives is 2 hours, that is after switching from subway to train.  Its just
not realistic for me to spend 4 hours on trains to get out there just for a
ride.  I am pushing hard for this to be my last year in NYC though so
hopefully will post some nice ride reports next year around this time!

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 1:08 PM, David Hallerman wrote:

>  On 7/23/12 3:42 PM, Peter Morgano wrote:
>
> Shame that the alot of the city is still stuck in Robert Moses mode
>
> Well, since 54% of households in New York City do not own a car -- a lower
> percentage of car ownership than any other city in the US of A -- perhaps
> the "a lot" being "stuck" is totally inaccurate. (Although I'd love to see
> fewer cars on the island of Manhattan.)
>
>
>
> On 7/23/12 4:48 PM, Peter Morgano wrote:
>
> I should just stop whining but man do I miss a nice country road.
>
> From New York City, get on a Metro-North train going to Westchester (bike
> pass is nearly free, lifetime pass for only $5). Take Hudson line or Harlem
> line to the north part of Westchester or into Putnam and Dutchess counties.
>
> Get off.
>
> Many country roads, with drivers far more polite than most of NYC or Long
> Island or New Jersey. (Oh, plan ahead with a cue sheet. Here's a free
> source for cue sheets in the Hudson Valley:
> http://www.roberts-1.com/bikehudson/
>
> Dave
> Peekskill, NY (formerly Brooklyn and Manhattan)
>
>
>
>
>  --
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[RBW] FS: Shimano cantilevers

[Mark Chandler]

Looks like I'm swearing off canti's for good.  Up for grabs is a bike's worth 
of Shimano BR-R550 cantilever brakes (compatible with drop-bar levers, nice 
silver finish).  Lightly used.  Includes Shimano link wires and fancy Tektro 
yokes/straddle cables (silver finish, which matches the brake arms).  
Pads/holders are black Tektro units, and use MTB-style inserts.  Used maybe a 
few hundred miles.  $30 obo shipped to the lower-48.  PayPal only, please.Email 
directly if you're interested. 

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[RBW] FS: 53cm Atlantis Frameset

[Jon Flaxman]

I'm trying to make some liquid funds, so here's my one-owner Atlantis.

One of the original ones, it was built by Toyo with the fancier-than-now lugs. 
Built for 26" wheels and it has braze-ons galore. I converted my 26" wheeled 
Riv A/R to 650b and it was an absolute joy. You could do the same with the 
Atlantis. 
It's lived a life at our other place and has always been relegated to
weekend rides. No off-roading and, sadly, no loaded touring. Rivendell called 
this a 53cm. It has a 53cm ST and a 55cm TT. 

Overall, it's in very nice condition, but some chain suck scars and a tiny ding
in the top tube. There are some scuffs and scratches from storage. It should 
polish up very nicely. No rust.

Ordered from and built by the now defunct Kenwood Cyclery, it's been
FrameSavered since new.

New framesets are $2000. I'm thinking $1450 OBRO shipped CONUS for frame, fork, 
and Tange headset. I have TONS of references should you
require them.



Some pics: 

http://s42.photobucket.com/albums/e332/bigflax925/Bikes/Rivendell%20Atlantis/

I'd considered selling complete as pictured... Or we can talk about adding a 
very nice Jim Thill built pair of 650b Rivy Hubbard wheelset. 

Jon Flaxman
--
Little Rock, Arkansas

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell in Cycling Illustrated

[Robert Barr]

Scot - very nice, congratulations on the column. I look forward to seeing
your column evolve.

On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 11:12 PM, Forrest  wrote:

> Nice column and photo, Scot!
>
>
> On Monday, July 23, 2012 2:51:52 PM UTC-5, Scot Brooks wrote:
>>
>> So I've managed to infiltrate the world of Cycling Illustrated as a
>> weekly columnist, and my post this week even has a photo of me with my Sam.
>> I've got a long way to go with my writing, but I think it's cool of them to
>> let a non-racing guy like myself have a voice on the site. The article
>> isn't a work of art, but they'll get better. I feel compelled to make
>> excuses for it, which I think is natural. Have a read if you like, and be
>> gentle. http://cyclingillustrated.com/**whats-a-bicycle-for-by-scot-**
>> hinckley-danielson/#more-5784
>
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[RBW] Re: Samuel P Taylor S240 Video - Back to Earth.

[Tommy]

Inspiring, and well put together. Excellent choice of cast, too!

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Re: [RBW] Grant on Brian Lehrer

[David Hallerman]

On 7/23/12 3:42 PM, Peter Morgano wrote:

Shame that the alot of the city is still stuck in Robert Moses mode
Well, since 54% of households in New York City do not own a car -- a 
lower percentage of car ownership than any other city in the US of A -- 
perhaps the "a lot" being "stuck" is totally inaccurate. (Although I'd 
love to see fewer cars on the island of Manhattan.)



On 7/23/12 4:48 PM, Peter Morgano wrote:
I should just stop whining but man do I miss a nice country road. 
From New York City, get on a Metro-North train going to Westchester 
(bike pass is nearly free, lifetime pass for only $5). Take Hudson line 
or Harlem line to the north part of Westchester or into Putnam and 
Dutchess counties.


Get off.

Many country roads, with drivers far more polite than most of NYC or 
Long Island or New Jersey. (Oh, plan ahead with a cue sheet. Here's a 
free source for cue sheets in the Hudson Valley:

http://www.roberts-1.com/bikehudson/

Dave
Peekskill, NY (formerly Brooklyn and Manhattan)




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[RBW] Re: FS: m-bars, levers, silver bar ends, and more

[Andy Smitty Schmidt]

See Picture Captions 
Here
 for 
updates of what's still available. Thanks for the interest. --Andy

On Monday, July 23, 2012 9:51:43 PM UTC-7, Andy Smitty Schmidt wrote:
>
> Usual story… cleaning out the parts bin. Some of it is more Riv-ish than 
> others. 
>
>
> All prices include USPS Priority shipping. Riv e-gift certificate 
> preferred method of payment. 
>
>
> List and prices below or pics w/ prices 
> here
>
>
> Shimano Tiagra Aero Levers $40
>
> Nitto Moustache Bars $60
>
> Silver Bar-End Shifter Kit… this is the kit Riv used to sell… unopened… 
> includes silver levers, bar-end pods, DT boss cable stops, dark gray 
> housing, cables, and related bits. $70
>
> V-brakes (1.35 bikes worth) $16
>
> Dia Compe mtn levers 22.2 for V-brakes $12
>
> Dia-Compe road levers w/ cable slackener (non-aero) $16
>
> Threadless stem riser for 1 1/8 $11
>
> Rivendell Readers (8 issues) $25
>
> Shimano Front Derailer triple $11
>
> Deore trigger shifters 3X9 $40
>
> UNO seatpost 25.4 X 350 $12
>
> Tektro Interruptor lever… just the right side… $11
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> --Andy
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on Brian Lehrer

[Peter Morgano]

Maybe it's an individual thing, I always found myself stomping on them to
get more power.  Now I just sit in super low gear and if it's that steep
take a nice walk, my knees go snap crackle and pop in the morning as it is,
haha.
On Jul 24, 2012 10:25 AM, "PATRICK MOORE"  wrote:

> When I climb those steep hills, I am very aware of pulling up quite
> hard to gain extra torque, something I can't do as well with clips and
> straps. I can feel the bike accelerate when pulling hard.
>
> On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 10:32 PM, Peter Morgano 
> wrote:
> > When I rode fixie for a long time I used the clipless system because I
> knew
> > my foot wasnt going to come off down a descent and stick my leg into an
> MKS
> > eggbeater. I always found that when climbing though clipless seemed like
> > they limited how much i could stand up and just hammer on the pedals. I
> > never thought upstroke was really more than hogwash, long before reading
> > about grant's stuff. I lifted weights when I was wrestling and woudl do
> an
> > exercise that looked alot like a back stroke on a bike and it made my
> legs
> > burn and I had little power, I just dont think it is one that utilizes
> the
> > big muscles in your legs the right way. Legs are made for pushing, not
> > really for pulling.
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 12:25 AM, Bertin753  wrote:
> >>
> >> Actually, foot retention does help when grinding a fixed 70 -- 75" gear
> up
> >> a steep hill. You can't do it for long  -- half a mile, say -- but it
> >> certainly helps. One reason I went back to clipless was that I kept
> pulling
> >> my feet out of the straps when climbing
> >>
> >> Patrick Moore
> >> iPhone
> >>
> >> On Jul 23, 2012, at 10:10 PM, Peter Morgano 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> My favorite comment of all was
> >>
> >>  "Mike In Bklyn from Brooklyn
> >>
> >> Boy there was a lot of misleading info in this segment.
> >>
> >> On clips and pulling up on the pedals-- anyone who tries to pedal a bike
> >> out of the saddle comes quickly to appreciate clips. And I don't know
> what
> >> kind of riding this quy has done, but he should try climbing a 9% grade
> hill
> >> and then tell me whether could do so without pulling up on pedals"  Take
> >> that grant, i bet he is always just wishing he had those clipless
> pedals up
> >> Mt Diablo, since as another guy said the ones without clips ruin our
> knees.
> >> What a bunch of mouth breathers, this is why bikesnob has just been
> able to
> >> eviscerate the culture around bikes, it can just get so silly. And
> while it
> >> is a shame not everyone can afford a Rivendell that doesnt make them
> out of
> >> reach, I mean these people should think about how much money they piss
> away
> >> on cars and gas, you will make your money back pretty fast.
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 11:51 PM, Joe Bernard 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I'm in full support of not riding with a helmet if that's what you
> >>> choose, but stories from old guys who made it through their youths
> without
> >>> them are easy to come by from the ones who actually made it, 'cause, ya
> >>> know, we made it! I crashed a goodly number of times on my old
> Stingrays and
> >>> 10-speeds, and banged my head hard a few times. I'm lucky I got away
> with
> >>> it, and usually wear a helmet now.
> >>>
> >>> Joe Bernard
> >>> Vallejo, CA.
> >>>
> >>> On Monday, July 23, 2012 8:31:38 PM UTC-7, charlie wrote:
> 
>  Great job Grant..in such a limited format.don't let some
> of
>  doz guyz get ya down. Controversy always gets attention. Its just too
> bad
>  many still believe the common misconceptions you often speak of. I
> used to
>  think many of things you speak about were necessary (clipless pedals,
>  cycling specific clothing, helmets all that stuff) until I actually
> thought
>  about it critically and remembered my youth and all the riding we did
>  without any of that stuff. I actually did ride a bicycle like most of
> the
>  rest of the world did and still does with.no helmet, no
> special
>  'kit', no special shoes, bars actually higher than my saddle, wider
> tires
>  and no emphasis on riding all bent over like a professional racer.
> Those
>  were some of the best bicycling years of my life.and I didn't die
>  (thankfully) from not wearing a helmet even though I crashed more
> than once.
> 
>  On Monday, July 23, 2012 12:03:20 PM UTC-7, Peter M wrote:
> >
> > Good discussion, comments on the bottom of the page prove what an
> > asshole place NYC is to live
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.wnyc.org/shows/bl/2012/jul/23/bicycling-101/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=%24%7Bfeed%7D&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+%24%7Bbl%7D+%28%24%7BBrian+Lehrer%7D%29
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups
> >>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> >>> To view this discussion on the web visit
> >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunc

Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on Brian Lehrer

[PATRICK MOORE]

When I climb those steep hills, I am very aware of pulling up quite
hard to gain extra torque, something I can't do as well with clips and
straps. I can feel the bike accelerate when pulling hard.

On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 10:32 PM, Peter Morgano  wrote:
> When I rode fixie for a long time I used the clipless system because I knew
> my foot wasnt going to come off down a descent and stick my leg into an MKS
> eggbeater. I always found that when climbing though clipless seemed like
> they limited how much i could stand up and just hammer on the pedals. I
> never thought upstroke was really more than hogwash, long before reading
> about grant's stuff. I lifted weights when I was wrestling and woudl do an
> exercise that looked alot like a back stroke on a bike and it made my legs
> burn and I had little power, I just dont think it is one that utilizes the
> big muscles in your legs the right way. Legs are made for pushing, not
> really for pulling.
>
> On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 12:25 AM, Bertin753  wrote:
>>
>> Actually, foot retention does help when grinding a fixed 70 -- 75" gear up
>> a steep hill. You can't do it for long  -- half a mile, say -- but it
>> certainly helps. One reason I went back to clipless was that I kept pulling
>> my feet out of the straps when climbing
>>
>> Patrick Moore
>> iPhone
>>
>> On Jul 23, 2012, at 10:10 PM, Peter Morgano 
>> wrote:
>>
>> My favorite comment of all was
>>
>>  "Mike In Bklyn from Brooklyn
>>
>> Boy there was a lot of misleading info in this segment.
>>
>> On clips and pulling up on the pedals-- anyone who tries to pedal a bike
>> out of the saddle comes quickly to appreciate clips. And I don't know what
>> kind of riding this quy has done, but he should try climbing a 9% grade hill
>> and then tell me whether could do so without pulling up on pedals"  Take
>> that grant, i bet he is always just wishing he had those clipless pedals up
>> Mt Diablo, since as another guy said the ones without clips ruin our knees.
>> What a bunch of mouth breathers, this is why bikesnob has just been able to
>> eviscerate the culture around bikes, it can just get so silly. And while it
>> is a shame not everyone can afford a Rivendell that doesnt make them out of
>> reach, I mean these people should think about how much money they piss away
>> on cars and gas, you will make your money back pretty fast.
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 11:51 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm in full support of not riding with a helmet if that's what you
>>> choose, but stories from old guys who made it through their youths without
>>> them are easy to come by from the ones who actually made it, 'cause, ya
>>> know, we made it! I crashed a goodly number of times on my old Stingrays and
>>> 10-speeds, and banged my head hard a few times. I'm lucky I got away with
>>> it, and usually wear a helmet now.
>>>
>>> Joe Bernard
>>> Vallejo, CA.
>>>
>>> On Monday, July 23, 2012 8:31:38 PM UTC-7, charlie wrote:

 Great job Grant..in such a limited format.don't let some of
 doz guyz get ya down. Controversy always gets attention. Its just too bad
 many still believe the common misconceptions you often speak of. I used to
 think many of things you speak about were necessary (clipless pedals,
 cycling specific clothing, helmets all that stuff) until I actually thought
 about it critically and remembered my youth and all the riding we did
 without any of that stuff. I actually did ride a bicycle like most of the
 rest of the world did and still does with.no helmet, no special
 'kit', no special shoes, bars actually higher than my saddle, wider tires
 and no emphasis on riding all bent over like a professional racer. Those
 were some of the best bicycling years of my life.and I didn't die
 (thankfully) from not wearing a helmet even though I crashed more than 
 once.

 On Monday, July 23, 2012 12:03:20 PM UTC-7, Peter M wrote:
>
> Good discussion, comments on the bottom of the page prove what an
> asshole place NYC is to live
>
>
> http://www.wnyc.org/shows/bl/2012/jul/23/bicycling-101/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=%24%7Bfeed%7D&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+%24%7Bbl%7D+%28%24%7BBrian+Lehrer%7D%29
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[RBW] Re: Grant on Brian Lehrer

[Mike]

It's nice that the book is getting some exposure and being discussed. 
Hopefully the people who are taking its message to heart are too busy 
having fun riding their bike to chime in via the web. 

As for NYC... I love visiting but have no desire to ride my bike there. 
I've spent a fair amount of time in the city and I went to grad school on 
Long Island, SUNY SB, and while it was very beautiful out there it was a 
terrifying place to ride a bike. On quiet back roads people tended to speed 
and would not hesitate to blare their horn at you. Yeah, it wasn't for me. 
I remember my first ride back in the Marin Headlands after returning to SF, 
I almost had tears in my eyes. It was so good to be home. 

All that said, my wife is from Nyack and we were visiting last year and I 
saw lots of groups of people in Nyack who had apparently pedaled out that 
way from NYC. Although this was the racer/pseudo-racer crowd, they by and 
large looked happy to be out on their bikes. People get used to what they 
have and deal with it. 

I feel very fortunate to live in Portland, OR. It's pretty friggin awesome 
for cycling here. Lots of folks "just ride" in this town, I bet a lot of 
them have never even heard of Rivendell or Grant and are out there 
living/riding what he's talking about.

--mike

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