[RBW] Re: All arounder Handlebar recommendations GO!

[ant ritchey]

my shoulders/anatomy feel a little pinched on the jitensha's, but I see 
where they'd work for folks.  i'm a six foot four broad shouldered bloke.

i just swapped albatross for ahearne maps on my "all rounder" (atlantis), 
the bike on which i'm about to do this oregon outback thing i've heard so 
much about, so we'll see.

i've been comfy and pleased with the albatross for many years, many miles, 
many types of roads and riding.  and i'd never sell them.  get noodles high 
enough and they're pretty all-roundish, especially if yer sam is roady-ish.


On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 7:45:35 PM UTC-7, drew wrote:
>
> I have a sam and a hunqapillar. sam had mustache bars, hunq had albatross. 
> Then the hunq got albastache and the sam got the old albatross bars because 
> I figured it was silly to have 2 bikes with similar bars. Long story short, 
> the albatross bars on the sam feel way too upright for my liking (and sam 
> is my "roadyish" bike). I'm aware of all the nitto/riv models, but what do 
> people like for an all around bar?
>
> Looking for a couple hand positions, not fully upright, faster feeling 
> bar, mostly road riding with a little dirt. Solo, all purpose/no purpose 
> rides. 
> I haven't ridden drops since a fixed gear bike got me into bikes (and away 
> from fixed gears). I'm not super excited about drops but am somewhat 
> curious about the low rise dirt drop style bars. What's out there that I 
> should be considering?
>

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[RBW] Re: All arounder Handlebar recommendations GO!

[Joe Bernard]

Have you tried Albatross flipped over? I have them that way on my Bike 
Friday and like it.

On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 7:45:35 PM UTC-7, drew wrote:
>
> I have a sam and a hunqapillar. sam had mustache bars, hunq had albatross. 
> Then the hunq got albastache and the sam got the old albatross bars because 
> I figured it was silly to have 2 bikes with similar bars. Long story short, 
> the albatross bars on the sam feel way too upright for my liking (and sam 
> is my "roadyish" bike). I'm aware of all the nitto/riv models, but what do 
> people like for an all around bar?
>
> Looking for a couple hand positions, not fully upright, faster feeling 
> bar, mostly road riding with a little dirt. Solo, all purpose/no purpose 
> rides. 
> I haven't ridden drops since a fixed gear bike got me into bikes (and away 
> from fixed gears). I'm not super excited about drops but am somewhat 
> curious about the low rise dirt drop style bars. What's out there that I 
> should be considering?
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Hunqapillar (or other riv) as a dirt drop mountain bike?

[Clayton.sf]

Agree on those surly ends. The worst! 
Though Eno hub with disc brakes ends up being a royal pain the a$$ too when you 
need to reinstall the rear wheel trailside and it limits me to only one hub for 
SS. Now that is really silly unless you don't care about SS. Ebb or sliders are 
the only clean solution for SS and disc brakes IMO. 

Clayton Scott (who is impressed with the AB black chainring on his ss mtb)
SF, CA 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Hunqapillar (or other riv) as a dirt drop mountain bike?

[cyclotourist]

Well I hate, hate, HATE the track ends that Surly uses! The EBB isn't
that bad, doesn't really creak or slip. I just think it's unnecessary
added complexity. If someone wants to ride SS, they can get a White
Ind ENO hub. Why make me have to have an EBB to accommodate them.
First world problems.

On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 8:45 PM, Clayton.sf  wrote:
> Not sure what ebb the gryphon uses, but I too used to be wary of ebbs. 
> However, the bushnell ebb on my Jones has been trouble free with not a single 
> creak or slip for almost 3 years now. I would buy another in a heartbeat. Ebb 
> are easier than track ends with disc brakes and allow to adjust a little for 
> ground clearance too. Still think that sliding dropouts like paragon or 
> blackcat are better, but the bushnell ebb has been flawless so far.
>
> Clayton Scott
> SF, CA
>
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"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal

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Re: [RBW] Re: Hunqapillar (or other riv) as a dirt drop mountain bike?

[Clayton.sf]

Not sure what ebb the gryphon uses, but I too used to be wary of ebbs. However, 
the bushnell ebb on my Jones has been trouble free with not a single creak or 
slip for almost 3 years now. I would buy another in a heartbeat. Ebb are easier 
than track ends with disc brakes and allow to adjust a little for ground 
clearance too. Still think that sliding dropouts like paragon or blackcat are 
better, but the bushnell ebb has been flawless so far.

Clayton Scott
SF, CA

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[RBW] Re: All arounder Handlebar recommendations GO!

[dstein]

Oooh, this is gonna get a lot of responses I bet. 

Honestly, the albastache's for me have been the overall best so far, for 
multipurpose riding as they give an upright position *and* aggressive aero 
position (with the big drawback being that the brake levers are not in your 
hands for the upright bar end position). But like drop bars, albastaches 
are pretty dependent on stem length and height (whereas abatross, bosco's, 
and other upright bars are less so).  That being said, I no longer have the 
albastache's on any of my bikes. 

I still like drop bars for fast road riding and run them on my main road 
bike: nothing beats the flat parts and brake hoods for cruising. I'm 
currently running Jones Loop bars on my mountain bike and like them a lot 
more than albastache and bullmoose for trail riding, and am really getting 
into them for road riding too, but they are 31.8 so if you have a threaded 
steerer you need an adapter which isn't ideal. 

I hear the Ahearne Map bars are a really good all rounder. I may end up 
replacing my jones with map bars next. 

Handlebars are the cheaper and more fun way to change your bike without 
having to pay for a new bike. I like experimenting with different setups.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Hunqapillar (or other riv) as a dirt drop mountain bike?

[cyclotourist]

The Gryphon is pretty good. I think it's fully designed to be a drop-bar
MTB. Not a heavy tourer like a Fargo or AWOL. They're relatively
inexpensive, well built and versatile. A little too versatile for me
actually. I'd prefer not to have an eccentric BB, and the cable guides are
bolt on ones rather than fixed. Like many Surly bikes, it tries to be all
things to all people.

On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 12:25 AM, brianweee  wrote:

> Thanks for your suggestion! I started looking into the Singular Gryphon.
> That bike might be a little bit more what I'm looking for (less touring,
> more adventure day riding). I saw that it is sold out on their website,
> where can one get a hold of a size large of one of those?
>
>
> On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 7:45:14 PM UTC-7, cyclot...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>>
>> Tony replied while I was still typing away. Notice his bar height though.
>> That's important if you're going to be riding off road.
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 7:42 PM, Tony DeFilippo  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> Bombadil, Nobby Nic's, Nitto Dirt Drops... also big grin!
>>>
>>> (need to repair/replace the rear wheel after finding stress cracks near
>>> the spoke holes though)
>>>
>>>
>>> I feel like I've read that the Hunq was designed with Bosco style
>>> upright bars in mind but the hallmark of most Riv frames is their ability
>>> to be re-imagined.  So long as you can work out the cockpit-saddle formula
>>> right a Hunq should do awesome as a drop bar-fat tired bike.
>>>
>>> --
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cheers,
>> David
>>
>> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace
>>
>> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>>
>>
>>
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[RBW] All arounder Handlebar recommendations GO!

[drew]

I have a sam and a hunqapillar. sam had mustache bars, hunq had albatross. Then 
the hunq got albastache and the sam got the old albatross bars because I 
figured it was silly to have 2 bikes with similar bars. Long story short, the 
albatross bars on the sam feel way too upright for my liking (and sam is my 
"roadyish" bike). I'm aware of all the nitto/riv models, but what do people 
like for an all around bar?

Looking for a couple hand positions, not fully upright, faster feeling bar, 
mostly road riding with a little dirt. Solo, all purpose/no purpose rides. 
I haven't ridden drops since a fixed gear bike got me into bikes (and away from 
fixed gears). I'm not super excited about drops but am somewhat curious about 
the low rise dirt drop style bars. What's out there that I should be 
considering?

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[RBW] Ride report: 3 Rivendells together at Chatfield Reservoir Colorado

[Pondero]

Lugs and homemade scones...yes, that works quite well.

Chris Johnson
Sanger, Texas

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Re: [RBW] Ride report: 3 Rivendells together at Chatfield Reservoir Colorado

[Curtis McKenzie]

Wonderful pictures. Glad to see a double top tube out and about.

Curtis

On Tuesday, October 13, 2015, 'jinxed' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> The Gangs all here!
>
> Feeling guilty for not having my Atlantis along last ride, I re-built it
> for todays 20+ miler at Chatfield Res just southwest of Denver.
>
> Insane cloudless blue skies, gravel, pavement, dirt, coffee, and LUGS!
> Hillborne, Hilsen, and Atlantis checking in!!
>
> Today, Jon brought homemade cranberry scones. Yea. We're locking this
> cafeoutside thing down tight in the mile high.
>
> Picture Proof
> 
>
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[RBW] Ride report: 3 Rivendells together at Chatfield Reservoir Colorado

['jinxed' via RBW Owners Bunch]

The Gangs all here!

Feeling guilty for not having my Atlantis along last ride, I re-built it 
for todays 20+ miler at Chatfield Res just southwest of Denver.

Insane cloudless blue skies, gravel, pavement, dirt, coffee, and LUGS! 
Hillborne, Hilsen, and Atlantis checking in!!

Today, Jon brought homemade cranberry scones. Yea. We're locking this 
cafeoutside thing down tight in the mile high.

Picture Proof 


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[RBW] FS: Surly Big Dummy

[Kellie]

*$1500: *small, black with curved top bar in excellent condition (less than 
100 miles); bought as a complete with a few changes. Comes with bags and 
wide loaders.

*You can see photos and a list of components here*
: https://selfpropelledlifestyle.wordpress.com/the-bikes/



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[RBW] Bike Snob Ride Report, NYC

[Michael Hechmer]

I grew up in NYC and used to ride the bridges and the parks, so I greatly 
enjoyed this ride report.

http://blog.brooksengland.com/wps/you-cant-spell-brooklyn-without-brooks-though-you-will-be-stuck-with-a-leftover-s/

Meanwhile I am enjoying less stressful rides during Vermont's foliage 
season. 

Michael

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Re: [RBW] Best rear support rack for med sadlesack?

[Tim Gavin]

That rack is basically a rear version of the Nitto M-12.  Cool.

But, the Mark's Rack is much more adjustable, and the platform of the NR-21
doesn't appear to be any longer than the Mark's Rack (though it is wider)

*NR-21:*
Pros: That rack is designed for bikes with a drilled brake bridge and
cantilever brake posts.  Which the Hunqapillar is.  It should fit, but you
may need to bend the brake bridge tang or the struts a little bit.

Cons: You can't really adjust the angle of the platform.  I bet that it
would fit closer to level on larger Hunqs with steeper seatstays.  It would
probably point up (like a duck tail) if installed on the smallest Hunqs.


FYI, when I bought my M-12 it included the Nitto Canti Bolts
.  I don't know if the NR-21
includes them; you should ask.

On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 5:12 PM, Daniel Jackson <
daniel.seth.jack...@gmail.com> wrote:

> This is for use on a Hunq.
>
> Was thinking about Mark's but may be too short?
> Anybody have any experience with this rack
> ? Would seat stay bridge
> accommodate this?
>
> Any other recommendations?
>
> Thanks much,
> D.
>
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[RBW] Re: Best rear support rack for med sadlesack?

[dougP]

See about the dimensions on that.  I adapted a small Nitto front rack to 
the rear by making an angle piece that fastened to the stay bridge with the 
fender hole & drilling a hole in the angle for the mounting pin.  

For a couple of bucks more, Rivendell has the R-14 which is arguably one of 
the nicer looking racks around, and has a built in tail light mounting 
plate:

http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/r14.htm

Ask Riv but I think it will be big enough for at least the medium & maybe 
even the large saddlesack.

dougP

On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 3:12:16 PM UTC-7, Daniel Jackson wrote:
>
> This is for use on a Hunq. 
>
> Was thinking about Mark's but may be too short?
> Anybody have any experience with this rack 
> ? Would seat stay bridge 
> accommodate this?
>
> Any other recommendations?
>
> Thanks much,
> D.
>

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[RBW] Darning wool socks

[Aaron Young]

The heels of my wool socks I bought from Riv are getting pretty thin. I
thought I would try to reinforce them by darning.  Has anyone tried that?
Success or failure?  Which type of wool did you use?

Please, help me get out of this heel hole. :)

Thanks,

Aaron

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Re: [RBW] Re: Hunqapillar (or other riv) as a dirt drop mountain bike?

[Clayton.sf]

Look at a Jones with Jones bar. Allows you to go aero but scoot back when 
it matters.

Clayton Scott
SF, CA



On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 3:15:41 PM UTC-7, brianweee wrote:
>
> @clayton So true. I'm not sure what my main draw is to the drop bars. I 
> think getting low enough on the road, and on climbs is the main reason. On 
> my full suspension mtb, it's all about downhill. I think I like the idea of 
> my a drop bar mountain bike that is made for climbing, road descending, and 
> less optimized for gnarly descents? 50-70 mile rides with 30-40 miles of 
> dirt/singletrack with 5-7k climbing is what i'm trying to optimize for. 
>
> On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 8:51:24 PM UTC-7, Clayton.sf wrote:
>>
>> Drop bars on an mtb will always out your teeth closer to the stem than 
>> riser, jones, or flat bars. Be aware of this and dress accordingly. 
>>
>> Clayton Scott
>> SF, CA
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Hunqapillar (or other riv) as a dirt drop mountain bike?

[brianweee]

@clayton So true. I'm not sure what my main draw is to the drop bars. I 
think getting low enough on the road, and on climbs is the main reason. On 
my full suspension mtb, it's all about downhill. I think I like the idea of 
my a drop bar mountain bike that is made for climbing, road descending, and 
less optimized for gnarly descents? 50-70 mile rides with 30-40 miles of 
dirt/singletrack with 5-7k climbing is what i'm trying to optimize for. 

On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 8:51:24 PM UTC-7, Clayton.sf wrote:
>
> Drop bars on an mtb will always out your teeth closer to the stem than 
> riser, jones, or flat bars. Be aware of this and dress accordingly. 
>
> Clayton Scott
> SF, CA
>

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[RBW] Best rear support rack for med sadlesack?

[Daniel Jackson]

This is for use on a Hunq. 

Was thinking about Mark's but may be too short?
Anybody have any experience with this rack 
? Would seat stay bridge 
accommodate this?

Any other recommendations?

Thanks much,
D.

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[RBW] Re: Hunqapillar (or other riv) as a dirt drop mountain bike?

[brianweee]

Thanks everybody for their input & posting pictures of their awesome drop 
bar mountain bikes. All are very dreamy.  :D 

@bill, the Black Mountain Monstercross seems to only clear 42mm. I want fat 
fat 2.3" tires. 

@eric, thanks for the link. I haven't heard too much about the Carmague. It 
looks rad, just have had some less than optimal experiences with VO parts. 
No experience with frames though. 

@mark, that Atlantis looks SO amazing with the fat tires. The long geometry 
is an interesting point though. The chainstays look as tight as possible? 
and the top tube seems any shorter would run into even more toe overlap. I 
wonder if a tighter geometry could be obtained with smaller wheel size. 


Getting the right bar height definitely seems to be an important factor. 

A Rawland Drakkar also seems to potentially fit the bill. Also Jason's 
baller Ellis is so dreamy! 



http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=173460






On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 12:10:32 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Give the Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross a look as well.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 7:05:19 PM UTC-7, brianweee wrote:
>>
>> Is anyone using their Rivendell Hunqapillar as a dirt drop mountain bike? 
>> or monster cross bike style? I currently ride a 26" wheel-size, 55.5cm 
>> Elephant with pretty light weight tubing. It's been great, but it's a 
>> little small for me and I think I would prefer a larger wheel diameter. 
>>
>> 
>>
>> I'm thinking a Rivendell Hunqapillar with drops for my next build, but 
>> would love to hear people's thoughts
>>
>>- is a Rivendell Hunqapillar the right frame for this build? Other 
>>suggestions?
>>- what tires can the Hunqapillar really clear? 2.35" Racing Ralphs? 
>>(i saw a slick 2.5" front tire at the Riv store)
>>- what bars are you using/would you use? 
>>
>>
>> Inspirations: 
>> Allan's Hunqapillar on Prolly
>>
>> 
>>
>> Cunningham 
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>> Mark Reimer's Atlantis 
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: KATY TRAIL ARTICLE

[Kelly]

I didn't read the article either.   I have however ridden the trail and 
connecting trails multiple times over many seasons.I think you can get 
out of it what you want.   If it's to just ride it then expect packed 
limestone trail and repetitive scenery to a point. However, and this is 
my opinion only and not meant as a counter post to anyone.. 

My Opinion on best way to enjoy the Katy Trail.  

Don't just schedule 80 mile days and grind out mile after mile.been 
there and done that.. boring and did I mention boring. 
Keep milage to 50 or under and give yourself time.  
  So day One take train to Sedalia from St Louis were your car is.   
 Note that Lee Summit is good to and allows routes to Clinton Mo.. (one end 
of Katy Trail.   Get off train ride to Clinton.
  Day two Ride back to Sedalia, and party... the fair grounds makes a 
great camping area with a short ride to downtown for great food and 
entertainment. 
  Day three ... Head on down to Rouchport .. Beautiful place with short 
nature hikes, restaurants etc.I usually camp there by the trail a the 
trail head... (no it's not listed as camping but )
  Day 4Ride out to Columbia Mo, it's a connector trail of 7 miles 
each way .. beautiful college town.. recommended and fresh cold beer.   
 Leave there an head on over to Coopers Landing for bands, beer, and river 
view.This is a true river side experience.If you don't like rustic 
and PBR maybe not for you. 
  Day 5 a short day to Jefferson City.. hang out and explore Missouri's 
capital and a nice trail system along with craft beer and good times. 
You're only 107 Miles from St Charles. 
 Note:  If you need to then take the train back at this 
point. .. escape clause :) 
  Day 6  Take the longest day in a few .. roughly 5ish   and head into 
Herman... Whine, Craft Beers, Camping etc.   It's 2 miles off the trail 
just outside Mckittrick 
  Day 7  Head on into Augusta for the Winery and good times..   Now if 
you don't have to go out to the very end which ends in the middle of now 
where then ride on into St Charles after embiding.  Note that the end 
is 12 miles out.. 
  Day 8out and back to end 24 miles then about 24 miles back to 
your car in Kirkwood Missouri.. nice day and at your car.   

Easy to cut days and see less.   

Here is a planning site...http://www.bikekatytrail.com/planner.aspx

Here are photos from some of my time on the trail. 
  http://www.kickstandphoto.com/event/Bicycle-Touring/MqJqj47yYtT6g

Kinda like a hill.. no harder than you make it ..

Note:  as usual ride the larges tires you have... not much of a flat risk 
there so protection is of limited help.  
Do this self contained.  So many more options and there is so 
much going on depending on when you ride. Missouri DNR does yearly 
rides where they carry your gear as well. 
   If you need a place to stay in St Louis before riding .. look me 
up - or even shuttle for very small group.. or even just leave your cars 
here in driveway.
   The length and the time are what attracts me to this trail 
beside living so damn close to the train station...
   

  Good Luck sorry to be so long winded. 


Kelly


On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 10:42:23 AM UTC-5, Paul Brodek wrote:
>
> Exec Summary: It's hard for me to recommend the Katy Trail as a 
> destination trip, unless you relish the challenge/experience of riding the 
> 2nd-longest trail in the country (it was still the longest when I rode it). 
> If you're going to be nearby, no reason not to check it out. Avoid summer 
> heat, and do some research into which sections might offer the best 
> scenery. I'd probably enjoy it more today, with more trail riding 
> experience under my belt and nicer tires to ride. But I'd rather try the 
> GAP first, or somewhere else with more topography.
>
> I didn't read the article, they wanted me to click on a survey or sumpthin 
> first, and I'm home with a cold and grumpy so NO!
>
> I rode the Katy Trail for only a couple of days in the summer of '00, 
> squeezing the riding into a business trip. I rode a steel Fuji Cross with 
> fattish but not-particularly-supple tires. IIRC I rode from east of St. 
> Joseph to St. Joseph, then west from St. Joseph. The first day was kind of 
> a half-day, maybe 20mi. The second day was going to be 40mi or so, but I 
> cut it a little short due to weather. Got a ride from west of St. Joseph 
> back to St. Louis the second day. 
>
> It was very hot and humid, even for a Jersey boy, and on the second day I 
> was riding between two storm fronts. The hotel weather channel showed the 
> fronts 15mi apart, traveling at 10mph, so I figured if I left just after 
> the first front passed and kept around a 10mph avg, including stops, I'd 
> stay dry. Surprisingly this worked, I didn't get any rain while on the 
> trail, but the humidity kept me pretty damp. I got to th

Re: [RBW] Re: C&O in October

[Steve Palincsar]

When I was there (minutes before my crash on Memorial Day in 2003, the 
"Warm Water Fishing Area" looked a bit like this, only without the 
half-tracks:





That year, spring was the rasputitsa 
...


On 10/13/2015 03:48 PM, Allingham II, Thomas J wrote:

Steve -- I don't know what it usually looks like, but according to my lights 
the trail was in excellent shape everywhere -- as Chris said, a few small 
puddles and some muddier patches, but considering all the rain in the days 
preceding, I was pleasantly surprised at how well it drained.  Tom

-Original Message-
From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Palincsar
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 9:10 AM
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: C&O in October



On 10/13/2015 07:54 AM, Pondero wrote:

I'm back in Texas and trying to adjust back to real life.  But I'm still 
inspired by the warm hospitality to do more of this.  What a treat to meet you 
all!  You are even more interesting than your internet celebrity personas!

More photos and blog content coming, but here are my Day 1 photos...

https://flickr.com/photos/28889177@N06/sets/72157659359187960



How was the trail in the "warm water fishing area" at Dickerson?




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Re: [RBW] Re: C&O in October

[Steve Palincsar]

I do like your photos!

On 10/13/2015 04:03 PM, Mary Gersemalina wrote:

Hi Steve,

Ed and I rode the trail back from Harper's Ferry, West Virginia, to 
D.C. on Sunday, and there were a few soft spots, but nothing 
unmanageable. The only issue is that the ground has begun to saturate 
in a few places so any additional rain we receive takes more time to 
drain. Again, nothing unmanageable, just a few bits of squish. Here's 
my photo set from the weekend; it even includes a picture of you! 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gersema/albums/72157659700962356




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Re: [RBW] Re: C&O in October

[ascpgh]

Fantastic pictures and write ups! You had a fantastic couple of days out 
there. Wish my schedule hadn't dictated work instead. 

Cheers to the vicarious adventuring these posts and the list in general 
provide when we can't get out for such a ride!

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 10:37:10 PM UTC-4, Tony DeFilippo wrote:
>
> http://dr2dc.blogspot.com/2015/10/mr-pondero-comes-to-washington.html
>
> Post with more pictures included.  Another gorgeous weekend in the bag and 
> a 3 day one at that.  This really is the best time of year for anything 
> outdoors in the Mid-Atlantic.  I hope everyone involved made it home safely 
> and enjoyed the rest of their riding on the C&O.  Thanks again to Chris for 
> making the opportunity and providing the inspiration!
>
> Tony
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: C&O in October

[Mary Gersemalina]

Hi Steve,

Ed and I rode the trail back from Harper's Ferry, West Virginia, to D.C. on 
Sunday, and there were a few soft spots, but nothing unmanageable. The only 
issue is that the ground has begun to saturate in a few places so any 
additional rain we receive takes more time to drain. Again, nothing 
unmanageable, just a few bits of squish. Here's my photo set from the 
weekend; it even includes a picture of you! 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gersema/albums/72157659700962356 

Best,
Mary

On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 9:10:29 AM UTC-4, Steve Palincsar wrote:

>
>
> On 10/13/2015 07:54 AM, Pondero wrote: 
> > I'm back in Texas and trying to adjust back to real life.  But I'm still 
> inspired by the warm hospitality to do more of this.  What a treat to meet 
> you all!  You are even more interesting than your internet celebrity 
> personas! 
> > 
> > More photos and blog content coming, but here are my Day 1 photos... 
> > 
> > https://flickr.com/photos/28889177@N06/sets/72157659359187960 
> > 
> > 
>
> How was the trail in the "warm water fishing area" at Dickerson? 
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: KATY TRAIL ARTICLE

[RJM]

Yeah, riding in that area in the summer just isn't fun...heck, riding where 
I live (West Kentucky, isn't fun in the summer...especially August.)  
 
There is a fun town on that trail called Hermann. It has a winery, and 
their Octoberfest is awesome. It is well worth the journey there during 
fall to make it during their Octoberfest.
 
 
My friend who has ridden both the GAP/ C&O and the Katy prefers the GAP 
trail. Better scenery. 
 
Are they allowing camping on the Katy trail yet?
 
 
On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 10:42:23 AM UTC-5, Paul Brodek wrote:

> Exec Summary: It's hard for me to recommend the Katy Trail as a 
> destination trip, unless you relish the challenge/experience of riding the 
> 2nd-longest trail in the country (it was still the longest when I rode it). 
> If you're going to be nearby, no reason not to check it out. Avoid summer 
> heat, and do some research into which sections might offer the best 
> scenery. I'd probably enjoy it more today, with more trail riding 
> experience under my belt and nicer tires to ride. But I'd rather try the 
> GAP first, or somewhere else with more topography.
>
> I didn't read the article, they wanted me to click on a survey or sumpthin 
> first, and I'm home with a cold and grumpy so NO!
>
> I rode the Katy Trail for only a couple of days in the summer of '00, 
> squeezing the riding into a business trip. I rode a steel Fuji Cross with 
> fattish but not-particularly-supple tires. IIRC I rode from east of St. 
> Joseph to St. Joseph, then west from St. Joseph. The first day was kind of 
> a half-day, maybe 20mi. The second day was going to be 40mi or so, but I 
> cut it a little short due to weather. Got a ride from west of St. Joseph 
> back to St. Louis the second day. 
>
> It was very hot and humid, even for a Jersey boy, and on the second day I 
> was riding between two storm fronts. The hotel weather channel showed the 
> fronts 15mi apart, traveling at 10mph, so I figured if I left just after 
> the first front passed and kept around a 10mph avg, including stops, I'd 
> stay dry. Surprisingly this worked, I didn't get any rain while on the 
> trail, but the humidity kept me pretty damp. I got to the hotel that night 
> just before a third storm hit, which turned into a hellacious hailstorm 
> with golfball-sized chunks of ice that literally (and I'm old enough to 
> understand how to use "literally") left tens of millions of $$ of damage in 
> its wake. Hiding for safety in the empty bathtub while the room windows 
> were being battered by machine-gun ice was more memorable than the ride. I 
> thought the windows were going to shatter and send glass flying through the 
> room, but they held up. My rep's car was in the hail for a minute or so 
> before he got under an overpass, and the insurance company wrote the car 
> off as totaled. Fun.
>
> So the weather did not add to my enjoyment. The length of trail I rode was 
> crushed limestone, pretty well surfaced. I found the two days kind of 
> uninspiring. The trail was flat, of course, but so was all the surrounding 
> terrain. The Mississippi River was close by, but far enough away on 
> flatland that I don't remember seeing much of it. I didn't find the ride or 
> surroundings to be particularly scenic. Whatever small towns the trail went 
> through were nice, but the heat/humidity, and the moving storm fronts on 
> the second day, didn't encourage lingering or exploring. This was probably 
> my first time riding a trail, and I kind of felt like I was slogging along. 
> On the second day I noticed there was a small, very well-surfaced road just 
> a few feet away paralleling the trail, so I started riding on the road 
> instead. That was more fun than the trail. 
>
> Since this sounds kinda negative, I decided to endure the Gazzette's 
> survey and read the article. I most definitely did not travel under a 
> canopy of trees, like it says in the article. Sounds like they had fun, 
> despite riding in August, I kinda didn't. But I was riding alone, first 
> time on a trail, crappy/scary weather, and I can be a Grumpy Gus when I'm 
> riding solo. Maybe when not riding solo, too...
>
> Paul Brodek
> Hillsdale, NJ USA
>
>   
>
>  
>
> On Sunday, October 11, 2015 at 3:37:54 PM UTC-4, Jon Dukeman in the 
> foothills of Colorado wrote: 
>>
>> Todays travel section had a great article about the Katy Trail in 
>> Missouri.
>> There must be some of you who have ridden it.
>> If so, I'd like to hear about your experience, what time of year you went 
>> etc.etc..
>> Here's the article:
>>
>>
>>
>> http://gazette.com/missouris-katy-trail-offers-an-experience-cyclists-cant-find-in-colorado/article/1560940
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: For those of you who don't subscribe to the Compass/BQ mailings ... New Compass Tires Now Available

[cyclotour...@gmail.com]

Thansk for the 411 on that, Rod!

I'm liking the looks of the Ulv as well: http://ravn.rawlandcycles.com/#ulv 

On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 6:32:47 AM UTC-7, Rod Holland wrote:
>
>
>
> On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 12:05:05 PM UTC-4, iamkeith wrote:
>>
>>
>> -  Even though I won't need one, I got curious and decided to check the 
>> news regarding the Ravn progress, over on the rCog forum.  Looks like that 
>> project might be dead.  Or at least its not going to be the uber-bike that 
>> it once was.  Lots of angry and disappointed people.   Seems they've been 
>> having trouble getting a manufacturer who is skilled enough to build with 
>> the flexy, raked fork blades, cantilever brakes, and precision tubing 
>> tolerances.  .   I really hope that doesn't mean that these tires will be 
>> available only as a fleeting thing.  As pointed out above, there probably 
>> aren't that many non-custom bikes out there that can even utilize them, 
>> other than these XO-1s, All Rounders and smaller Atlanti.  
>>
>>
>> So, the original Ravn spec went through a number of crowd-sourced 
> metamorphoses, in the best Rawland tradition. A pretty attractive bicycle 
> emerged from that: light, lively, and low-trail, with canti or V brakes, 
> and, of course, clearance for the Rat Trap Pass tires, with fenders, 
> available as a frameset or a complete. As you relate, Rawland's long-time 
> Taiwanese fabrication vendor seems to have gotten stupid (probably through 
> the loss of key personnel, the way it usually happens), and delivered a 
> botched prototype that just wasn't going to be the bicycle folks were 
> excited about. MEANWHILE... a different design, disc brakes based, was 
> going very well, AND a new fabrication partnership and Rawland business 
> model emerged. SO... the Ravn brand will now be applied to a different 
> bicycle, which can still be called "enduro all road", said to be available 
> in Spring 2016, as a complete bike only. This last detail caused a good 
> deal of consternation on rCOG, both because the likely price tag is spendy 
> (wouldn't cause a ripple in the as a Riv complete, of course), and because 
> the typical Rawland owner actually likes building up bikes to their taste 
> and/or spare parts bin. So the Ravn is still a viable egg, but will be a 
> different bird when it hatches. See http://ravn.rawlandcycles.com/ for 
> more on that, as it develops. Meanwhile, lots of folks are experimenting 
> with the Rat Traps on a variety of bikes: vintage 26" mtbs, 26" touring 
> bikes, disc bikes with the necessary clearance (e.g., the Elephant NFE), 
> purpose-built customs. Here's mine, a Surly Trucker DeLuxe with Rat Trap 
> Pass Extralights mounted under Planet Bike Cascadia ATB fenders; I've taken 
> to calling it the Monster Trucker. Like it a lot...
>
>
>
> 
>
> It would be surprising if some frame builder or manufacturer didn't step 
> into what looks like an emerging market.  Regardless of subsequent 
> developments with the Ravn (and I wish Sean every success with it, btw), 
> looks to me like the Rat Trap Pass is here to stay. 
>
> rod
>

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RE: [RBW] Re: C&O in October

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

Steve -- I don't know what it usually looks like, but according to my lights 
the trail was in excellent shape everywhere -- as Chris said, a few small 
puddles and some muddier patches, but considering all the rain in the days 
preceding, I was pleasantly surprised at how well it drained.  Tom

-Original Message-
From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Palincsar
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 9:10 AM
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: C&O in October



On 10/13/2015 07:54 AM, Pondero wrote:
> I'm back in Texas and trying to adjust back to real life.  But I'm still 
> inspired by the warm hospitality to do more of this.  What a treat to meet 
> you all!  You are even more interesting than your internet celebrity personas!
>
> More photos and blog content coming, but here are my Day 1 photos...
>
> https://flickr.com/photos/28889177@N06/sets/72157659359187960
>
>

How was the trail in the "warm water fishing area" at Dickerson?


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[RBW] Re: KATY TRAIL ARTICLE

[Jon Dukeman in the foothills of Colorado]

Paul,
>
Thank you for sharing your experience riding the Katy Trail.
Born and raised in Ohio I know about the heat and humidity and violent 
storms. Now living n Colorado where the humidity is 18% today, I might not 
tolerate the humidiy as well as I did growing up. I could appreciate the 
elevation gain the Katy Trail has to offer and the oxygen rich air.. Like 
the article says..Colorado has nothing to compare to the Katy Trail.
I might not enjoy the trip alone either.It's always easier to tolerate the 
weather and other surprises if you have friends riding with you. 
Thanks again...maybe someday I'll do the Katy Trail.
Jon

>  
>
> On Sunday, October 11, 2015 at 3:37:54 PM UTC-4, Jon Dukeman in the 
> foothills of Colorado wrote:
>>
>> Todays travel section had a great article about the Katy Trail in 
>> Missouri.
>> There must be some of you who have ridden it.
>> If so, I'd like to hear about your experience, what time of year you went 
>> etc.etc..
>> Here's the article:
>>
>>
>>
>> http://gazette.com/missouris-katy-trail-offers-an-experience-cyclists-cant-find-in-colorado/article/1560940
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: FT - 48cm Noodles (heat treated)

[Paul Brodek]

Er, got ONE for ya!

On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 10:12:22 AM UTC-4, Paul Brodek wrote:
>
> PM sent, got on for ya!
>
> On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 10:57:21 PM UTC-4, Tony DeFilippo wrote:
>>
>> The 48's work ok for me but I think 46 is my size.  Good shape, some 
>> normal marks from use but not abused. I'm sure there is someone out there 
>> wanting to try out the wider bars...  
>>
>> I'm looking for a straight trade, we both pay our own shipping costs. 
>>  Bar's I'm interested in in;
>>
>> Noodle 46cm
>> Nitto RM-013 (46cm or 48cm)
>> Grand Bois Maes Parallel (44cm)
>>
>> Please hit me up off list. Thanks!
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Hunqapillar (or other riv) as a dirt drop mountain bike?

[Bill Lindsay]

Give the Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross a look as well.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 7:05:19 PM UTC-7, brianweee wrote:
>
> Is anyone using their Rivendell Hunqapillar as a dirt drop mountain bike? 
> or monster cross bike style? I currently ride a 26" wheel-size, 55.5cm 
> Elephant with pretty light weight tubing. It's been great, but it's a 
> little small for me and I think I would prefer a larger wheel diameter. 
>
> 
>
> I'm thinking a Rivendell Hunqapillar with drops for my next build, but 
> would love to hear people's thoughts
>
>- is a Rivendell Hunqapillar the right frame for this build? Other 
>suggestions?
>- what tires can the Hunqapillar really clear? 2.35" Racing Ralphs? (i 
>saw a slick 2.5" front tire at the Riv store)
>- what bars are you using/would you use? 
>
>
> Inspirations: 
> Allan's Hunqapillar on Prolly
>
> 
>
> Cunningham 
>
>
> 
>
> Mark Reimer's Atlantis 
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Groceries and baskets

[Tim Gavin]

My mistake, thanks for the clarification.  I glanced at it instead of
looking carefully.  I really like the Campee Classic (with removable
lowrider) front racks.

On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 1:27 PM, Mark Reimer  wrote:

> My rack actually isn't the big rack! It's the smaller more elegant campee
> model
>

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Re: [RBW] Groceries and baskets

[Mark Reimer]

My rack actually isn't the big rack! It's the smaller more elegant campee
model

On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 1:01 PM, Tim Gavin 
wrote:

> Kudos to Mark.
>
> His Nitto 34F (Big Front Rack) is definitely a more capable of epic loads
> than the Nitto mini front racks.
>
> Tim
>
> On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 12:04 PM, Ryan Fleming <
> ryanmalloryflem...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Yup...I've seen Mark' beast of burden in action and yup , he hauls a
>> lotta stuff on it. Doesn't   seem to slow him down appreciably, though
>>
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[RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue

[George Schick]

Now that Summer is long past, does anyone who subscribes to BQ have a 
synopsis of what they found out about pedal retention usefulness that 
they'd like to share? 


On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 9:23:53 AM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Doubtless of interest to RBW listers. Quoted from the Compass blog for 
> those who don't read it or BQ.
>
> I'll be very interested myself, as someone hitherto convinced that 
> retention is a great help. If tests show that retention doesn't help, I'd 
> probably still keep retention on my fixed gears, for safety, and because 
> they do undoubtedly allow pulling up for more torque when climbing steep 
> hills, but would undoubtedly switch to platforms for my off road derailleur 
> bike.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Jayme Frye says:May 15, 2015 at 6:27 amI was with you up until SPD 
> clipless pedals. I am not convinced there is any need for retention systems 
> outside the ultra competitive world of pro cycling (primarily sprints). 
> Perhaps you could use your testing methods on the claims that pedal 
> retention systems are more efficient and allow the rider to produce more 
> power by pulling up. That would make for a great BQ article.CheersReplyJan 
> Heine, Editor, Bicycle Quarterly says:May 15, 2015 at 6:55 amWe did test 
> this. It’s in the Summer issue, which will come out soon…Reply*
>
> -- 
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> Other professional writing services.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
>
> *
> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a 
> circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and 
> individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu
>
> *Kinei hos eromenon. It moves as the being-loved. *Aristotle
>
> *The Love that moves the Sun and all the other stars. *Dante  
>

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Re: [RBW] Groceries and baskets

[Tim Gavin]

Kudos to Mark.

His Nitto 34F (Big Front Rack) is definitely a more capable of epic loads
than the Nitto mini front racks.

Tim

On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 12:04 PM, Ryan Fleming  wrote:

> Yup...I've seen Mark' beast of burden in action and yup , he hauls a lotta
> stuff on it. Doesn't   seem to slow him down appreciably, though
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: C&O in October

[Pondero]

Steve,

I had to look up Dickerson on a map, and noticed it is near the Monocacy 
Aqueduct.  We spent our first night in a H/B site just north of the 
Aqueduct... 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/28889177@N06/22109963272/in/dateposted-public/ 
 

I'm not sure if that is the area you are asking about, but I believe the 
trail was generally in pretty good condition in the vicinity, but with a 
few muddy spots to keep it interesting.  Maybe Tom or Jeff can be more 
helpful.

Chris Johnson
Sanger, Texas


On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 8:10:29 AM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>
>
> On 10/13/2015 07:54 AM, Pondero wrote: 
> > I'm back in Texas and trying to adjust back to real life.  But I'm still 
> inspired by the warm hospitality to do more of this.  What a treat to meet 
> you all!  You are even more interesting than your internet celebrity 
> personas! 
> > 
> > More photos and blog content coming, but here are my Day 1 photos... 
> > 
> > https://flickr.com/photos/28889177@N06/sets/72157659359187960 
> > 
> > 
>
> How was the trail in the "warm water fishing area" at Dickerson? 
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Joe Appaloosa geometry

[James Warren]

You can see those Protovelos still pictured by navigating back in time on the Blug. What I couldn't find anymore are the descriptions that went with those photos. The descriptions went away after those Protovelos sold, I'm guessing.-Original Message-
From: iamkeith 
Sent: Oct 13, 2015 8:28 AM
To: RBW Owners Bunch 
Subject: [RBW] Re: Joe Appaloosa geometry

On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 8:50:39 AM UTC-6, Braxton Colagross wrote:Yes, the thing everyone seems to be missing outside "Hillborne with greater clearances" is "Hillborne with longer chainstays." That's what I had expected too, but those protovelos they sold in the Web Specials didn't look particularly long, at least to the naked eye.  Hopefully someone saved an image and can share it. 



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[RBW] Re: FS 62 cm Yves Gomez

[Phillip Hathaway]

Sold! Thanks to all.


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Re: [RBW] Groceries and baskets

[Ryan Fleming]

Yup...I've seen Mark' beast of burden in action and yup , he hauls a lotta 
stuff on it. Doesn't   seem to slow him down appreciably, though

On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 10:08:12 AM UTC-5, Mark Reimer wrote:
>
> Here's some of my personal best loads - a 40lb bag of wood stove pellets 
> tied down to my Nitto Campee using a wire shelf to distribute the load. A 
> Honda cb750 engine block in a pannier, 24 beers, and a cord of wood. The 
> bike handled quite well all things considered!
>
>
>
> 
>
>
> 
>
>
> 
>
>
> 
>
>
> On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 7:29:44 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> I've been carrying heavyish rear grocery loads on Rivendells since 1997 
>> or so. The secret is to use a very stiff rack, and I had very good luck 
>> with the Tubus Fly -- 11 oz, rated to 44 lb, which I've maxed out. The 
>> Cargo model is rated to 80 lb, IIRC.
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 3:03 PM, Fred Craven  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Front or rear?
>>>
>>> Now that I'm able to ride a reasonably short distance without cardiac 
>>> arrest, I desire to go to our local grocery store and pick up a few items 
>>> for dinner (and you can be sure that I will get wine cheese and baguettes 
>>> at least once).
>>>
>>> To facilitate this chore I will need "on bike" storage: most likely a 
>>> basket. But where to put it, front or rear? My Rivendell Road Bike is of 
>>> the generation where extra braze-ons were not standard fare. But that's not 
>>> a problem. I think a front basket looks awesome, but rear storage might be 
>>> more stable. As I'm utterly ignorant on the ramifications of this choice so 
>>> I welcome your opinions.
>>>
>>> The geometry is Riv-road, with a delightfully short top tube (thanks to 
>>> Joel). I'm not sure if that affects things, but that's the situation.
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
>> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
>> Other professional writing services.
>> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
>> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
>>
>> *
>> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a 
>> circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and 
>> individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu
>>
>> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* Carthusian motto
>>  
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: For those of you who don't subscribe to the Compass/BQ mailings ... New Compass Tires Now Available

[Rod Holland]

Sun Rhyno Lite rims (27.5mm width, if memory serves), on Chris King hubs.

rod

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Re: [RBW] Groceries and baskets

[Kainalu]

A cord! That's got my hugest load whooped and I often use a trailer that maxes 
at 300ish lbs. 24 packs I can do. Seen a gentleman in Beijing with a few 
hundred pounds of melons, that had looked like a record to me. 
Glad for my oil heat
-Kai
Brooklyn, NY

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[RBW] Re: Clem Presale is over.

[David Strong]

i'm kicking myself for not getting in on the Clem presale before it closed. 
my fingers are crossed that someone decides they dont love their 52cm and 
sells it to me! haha. if youre reading this and want to let yours go, DM 
me! otherwise i hope the upcoming Appaloosa is rad

On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 8:02:08 PM UTC-4, Wayne Naha wrote:
>
> Hello Tim!  Welcome!  My Clem will also be my first Riv as well.  My PBH 
> is 84, and I'm getting a 52.
>
> On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 6:33:01 PM UTC-4, Tim Wood wrote:
>>
>> I too fretted over the 52 and 59. My PBH is 90 and saddle height 79. I 
>> went with the 59 and after seeing the most recent photos on the blug it 
>> somewhat reaffirmed my decision as I wouldn't have wanted a 52 with that 
>> much post and stem showing. 
>>
>> -first time post, first time riv owner, hello everyone! 
>>
>>
>> Tim Wood 
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Joe Appaloosa geometry

[Jim Bronson]

+1
The Appaloosa head badge is fantastic!

On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 11:13 AM, Joe Bernard  wrote:

> The problem here is the concept for this bike has bounced around a lot
> since the original Mystery Bikes were produced, and I'm not convinced the
> Protovelos were much more than design exercises. The only thing they nailed
> down was a head badge.
>
> On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 8:28:33 AM UTC-7, iamkeith wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 8:50:39 AM UTC-6, Braxton Colagross wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes, the thing everyone seems to be missing outside "Hillborne with
>>> greater clearances" is *"Hillborne with longer chainstays."*
>>>
>>
>> That's what I had expected too, but those protovelos they sold in the Web
>> Specials didn't look particularly long, at least to the naked eye.
>> Hopefully someone saved an image and can share it.
>>
> --
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[RBW] Re: Joe Appaloosa geometry

[Garth]

  Exactly !   Proto means prototype , which explains itself .  Riv selling 
a proto-type frame means nothing as to whether or not that particular frame 
is what is to come . 




On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 12:14:00 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> The problem here is the concept for this bike has bounced around a lot 
> since the original Mystery Bikes were produced, and I'm not convinced the 
> Protovelos were much more than design exercises. The only thing they nailed 
> down was a head badge. 
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Joe Appaloosa geometry

[Joe Bernard]

The problem here is the concept for this bike has bounced around a lot 
since the original Mystery Bikes were produced, and I'm not convinced the 
Protovelos were much more than design exercises. The only thing they nailed 
down was a head badge. 

On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 8:28:33 AM UTC-7, iamkeith wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 8:50:39 AM UTC-6, Braxton Colagross wrote:
>>
>> Yes, the thing everyone seems to be missing outside "Hillborne with 
>> greater clearances" is *"Hillborne with longer chainstays."* 
>>
>
> That's what I had expected too, but those protovelos they sold in the Web 
> Specials didn't look particularly long, at least to the naked eye.  
> Hopefully someone saved an image and can share it. 
>

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[RBW] Re: KATY TRAIL ARTICLE

[Paul Brodek]

Exec Summary: It's hard for me to recommend the Katy Trail as a destination 
trip, unless you relish the challenge/experience of riding the 2nd-longest 
trail in the country (it was still the longest when I rode it). If you're 
going to be nearby, no reason not to check it out. Avoid summer heat, and 
do some research into which sections might offer the best scenery. I'd 
probably enjoy it more today, with more trail riding experience under my 
belt and nicer tires to ride. But I'd rather try the GAP first, or 
somewhere else with more topography.

I didn't read the article, they wanted me to click on a survey or sumpthin 
first, and I'm home with a cold and grumpy so NO!

I rode the Katy Trail for only a couple of days in the summer of '00, 
squeezing the riding into a business trip. I rode a steel Fuji Cross with 
fattish but not-particularly-supple tires. IIRC I rode from east of St. 
Joseph to St. Joseph, then west from St. Joseph. The first day was kind of 
a half-day, maybe 20mi. The second day was going to be 40mi or so, but I 
cut it a little short due to weather. Got a ride from west of St. Joseph 
back to St. Louis the second day. 

It was very hot and humid, even for a Jersey boy, and on the second day I 
was riding between two storm fronts. The hotel weather channel showed the 
fronts 15mi apart, traveling at 10mph, so I figured if I left just after 
the first front passed and kept around a 10mph avg, including stops, I'd 
stay dry. Surprisingly this worked, I didn't get any rain while on the 
trail, but the humidity kept me pretty damp. I got to the hotel that night 
just before a third storm hit, which turned into a hellacious hailstorm 
with golfball-sized chunks of ice that literally (and I'm old enough to 
understand how to use "literally") left tens of millions of $$ of damage in 
its wake. Hiding for safety in the empty bathtub while the room windows 
were being battered by machine-gun ice was more memorable than the ride. I 
thought the windows were going to shatter and send glass flying through the 
room, but they held up. My rep's car was in the hail for a minute or so 
before he got under an overpass, and the insurance company wrote the car 
off as totaled. Fun.

So the weather did not add to my enjoyment. The length of trail I rode was 
crushed limestone, pretty well surfaced. I found the two days kind of 
uninspiring. The trail was flat, of course, but so was all the surrounding 
terrain. The Mississippi River was close by, but far enough away on 
flatland that I don't remember seeing much of it. I didn't find the ride or 
surroundings to be particularly scenic. Whatever small towns the trail went 
through were nice, but the heat/humidity, and the moving storm fronts on 
the second day, didn't encourage lingering or exploring. This was probably 
my first time riding a trail, and I kind of felt like I was slogging along. 
On the second day I noticed there was a small, very well-surfaced road just 
a few feet away paralleling the trail, so I started riding on the road 
instead. That was more fun than the trail. 

Since this sounds kinda negative, I decided to endure the Gazzette's survey 
and read the article. I most definitely did not travel under a canopy of 
trees, like it says in the article. Sounds like they had fun, despite 
riding in August, I kinda didn't. But I was riding alone, first time on a 
trail, crappy/scary weather, and I can be a Grumpy Gus when I'm riding 
solo. Maybe when not riding solo, too...

Paul Brodek
Hillsdale, NJ USA

  

 

On Sunday, October 11, 2015 at 3:37:54 PM UTC-4, Jon Dukeman in the 
foothills of Colorado wrote:
>
> Todays travel section had a great article about the Katy Trail in Missouri.
> There must be some of you who have ridden it.
> If so, I'd like to hear about your experience, what time of year you went 
> etc.etc..
> Here's the article:
>
>
>
> http://gazette.com/missouris-katy-trail-offers-an-experience-cyclists-cant-find-in-colorado/article/1560940
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Joe Appaloosa geometry

[iamkeith]

On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 8:50:39 AM UTC-6, Braxton Colagross wrote:
>
> Yes, the thing everyone seems to be missing outside "Hillborne with 
> greater clearances" is *"Hillborne with longer chainstays."* 
>

That's what I had expected too, but those protovelos they sold in the Web 
Specials didn't look particularly long, at least to the naked eye.  
Hopefully someone saved an image and can share it. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Hunqapillar (or other riv) as a dirt drop mountain bike?

[Addison Wilhite]

I tend to use my Jamis Dragon for technical dirt riding but I have used my
Rivendell Allrounder for a lot of dirt over the years.  Below is a post
that shows a bunch of different configurations of the model (that's the
beauty of an AR obviously) but if you scroll through you will see some of
the knobby fat tire photos are interspersed.

http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com/2013/01/rivendell-allrounder-jack-of-all.html

Best,


Addison Wilhite, M.A.

Academy of Arts, Careers and Technology 

*“Blazing the Trail to College and Career Success”*

Educator: Professional Portfolio 

Blogger: Reno Rambler 

Vice Chair: Regional Transportation Commission, Bicycle Pedestrian Advisory
Committee 


On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 7:53 AM, Mark Reimer  wrote:

> Ah, that's my bike! I love riding my Atlantis on single track. Though two
> comments - the long touring frame geometry makes the bike a bit slow to
> turn, at least compared to a modern mountain bike. Not a big deal at all
> though, but notable. The bigger issue I've had is pedal strike. The BB is
> pretty low so I'm clipping them on rocks, scraping weeds, etc. Also on the
> 58cm frame with big fat tires there is a bit of toe overlap.
>
> All in all it's awesome though
>
> On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 6:01:33 AM UTC-5, Eric Daume wrote:
>>
>> If you're looking for a largish monstercross style bike, I have to put in
>> a shameless plug for my Velo Orange Camargue frameset for sale:
>>
>> http://bikingtoplay.blogspot.com/2013/07/the-for-sale-post.html
>>
>> Designed for drop bars, single speed or geared, clearance for 2.25"
>> tires, and a 350mm steerer lets you put the bars wherever you want them.
>> It's sized about like the large Gryphon.
>>
>> Eric
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 3:25 AM, brianweee  wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for your suggestion! I started looking into the Singular Gryphon.
>>> That bike might be a little bit more what I'm looking for (less touring,
>>> more adventure day riding). I saw that it is sold out on their website,
>>> where can one get a hold of a size large of one of those?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 7:45:14 PM UTC-7, cyclot...@gmail.com
>>> wrote:

 Tony replied while I was still typing away. Notice his bar height
 though. That's important if you're going to be riding off road.

 On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 7:42 PM, Tony DeFilippo 
 wrote:

>
> 
>
> Bombadil, Nobby Nic's, Nitto Dirt Drops... also big grin!
>
> (need to repair/replace the rear wheel after finding stress cracks
> near the spoke holes though)
>
>
> I feel like I've read that the Hunq was designed with Bosco style
> upright bars in mind but the hallmark of most Riv frames is their ability
> to be re-imagined.  So long as you can work out the cockpit-saddle formula
> right a Hunq should do awesome as a drop bar-fat tired bike.
>
> --
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 --
 Cheers,
 David

 Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace

 "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal



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Re: [RBW] Re: For those of you who don't subscribe to the Compass/BQ mailings ... New Compass Tires Now Available

[iamkeith]

What rims are you using, by the way? 

 Here's mine, a Surly Trucker DeLuxe with Rat Trap Pass Extralights mounted 
> under Planet Bike Cascadia ATB fenders; I've taken to calling it the 
> Monster Trucker. Like it a lot...
>
>
> rod
>

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Re: [RBW] Groceries and baskets

[Mark Reimer]

Here's some of my personal best loads - a 40lb bag of wood stove pellets 
tied down to my Nitto Campee using a wire shelf to distribute the load. A 
Honda cb750 engine block in a pannier, 24 beers, and a cord of wood. The 
bike handled quite well all things considered!











On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 7:29:44 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> I've been carrying heavyish rear grocery loads on Rivendells since 1997 or 
> so. The secret is to use a very stiff rack, and I had very good luck with 
> the Tubus Fly -- 11 oz, rated to 44 lb, which I've maxed out. The Cargo 
> model is rated to 80 lb, IIRC.
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 3:03 PM, Fred Craven  > wrote:
>
>> Front or rear?
>>
>> Now that I'm able to ride a reasonably short distance without cardiac 
>> arrest, I desire to go to our local grocery store and pick up a few items 
>> for dinner (and you can be sure that I will get wine cheese and baguettes 
>> at least once).
>>
>> To facilitate this chore I will need "on bike" storage: most likely a 
>> basket. But where to put it, front or rear? My Rivendell Road Bike is of 
>> the generation where extra braze-ons were not standard fare. But that's not 
>> a problem. I think a front basket looks awesome, but rear storage might be 
>> more stable. As I'm utterly ignorant on the ramifications of this choice so 
>> I welcome your opinions.
>>
>> The geometry is Riv-road, with a delightfully short top tube (thanks to 
>> Joel). I'm not sure if that affects things, but that's the situation.
>>
>> --
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>
>
>
> -- 
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> Other professional writing services.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
>
> *
> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a 
> circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and 
> individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu
>
> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* Carthusian motto
>  
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: For those of you who don't subscribe to the Compass/BQ mailings ... New Compass Tires Now Available

[iamkeith]

Thanks for the background, Rod.  I assumed I was ignorant about some 
details, and probably leaving out others, and didn't take time to read all 
of the latest developments.   I had gotten pretty excited about the bike 
when it was first announced, and even thought hard about getting one 
- before determining that it would be too redundant for me to justify.   

I too hope it goes well for Sean, and that the new model is successful.   I 
like Rawland products a lot.  Honestly, they're one of the few brands I 
could ever feel good about spending my money on.  I also admire his 
approach and willingness to incorporate buyer input.  There's obviously a 
danger with that - of making some people feel slighted or ignored - and 
that's probably why some of those discussions seem so angry at the moment.  
But not many would even be brave enough to take the risk.   

I also hope you're right that the RTP tire stays around - even if it 
doesn't quite lead to an emerging market.  A big part of me has 
always enjoyed being one of the weird, non-traditional riders, having 
"secret knowledge," and enjoying advantages that the most won't touch, 
because they look funny or because the pros don't use them.   Which is of 
course different than using something just because its unusual/non-trendy 
or just because its new. It wouldn't hurt my feelings if this stays 
somewhat peripheral.   Not unlike a recent email from Dave that lamented 
how its becoming harder for Rivendell to distinguish itself, now that many 
other builders are embracing steel, comfort, and versatile, all-rounder 
type designs.   Meanwhile, I've been piping off for a long time about how 
much I prefer 26" wheels, but most people dismiss me outright.

Your bike looks great!  I was trying to think, after I listed those models, 
what other existing "road" bikes could utilize these tires, and remembered 
the LHT.  The nice thing about those is that you have the option of using 
26" tires with larger frames than with the Atlantis.  And the Elephant NFE 
is another good one, as is the Rawland dSogn - if someone could find 
one.  (I guess wheel versatility is one definite advantage of the Ravn 
going to discs!)

And now, I can't help wondering if Rivendell would consider doing a bigger 
26" wheel bike again.  I know Grant has resisted and tried to "leave it in 
the past," but its not like he'd have to be apologetic about changing his 
mind - given the fact that he invented the format in the first place.  
There would probably have to be a stiffer, more durable version of the RTP 
tire though.

On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 7:32:47 AM UTC-6, Rod Holland wrote:

>
>
>
>> So, the original Ravn spec went through a number of crowd-sourced 
> metamorphoses, in the best Rawland tradition. A pretty attractive bicycle 
> emerged from that: light, lively, and low-trail, with canti or V brakes, 
> and, of course, clearance for the Rat Trap Pass tires, with fenders, 
> available as a frameset or a complete. As you relate, Rawland's long-time 
> Taiwanese fabrication vendor seems to have gotten stupid (probably through 
> the loss of key personnel, the way it usually happens), and delivered a 
> botched prototype that just wasn't going to be the bicycle folks were 
> excited about. MEANWHILE... a different design, disc brakes based, was 
> going very well, AND a new fabrication partnership and Rawland business 
> model emerged. SO... the Ravn brand will now be applied to a different 
> bicycle, which can still be called "enduro all road", said to be available 
> in Spring 2016, as a complete bike only. This last detail caused a good 
> deal of consternation on rCOG, both because the likely price tag is spendy 
> (wouldn't cause a ripple in the as a Riv complete, of course), and because 
> the typical Rawland owner actually likes building up bikes to their taste 
> and/or spare parts bin. So the Ravn is still a viable egg, but will be a 
> different bird when it hatches. See http://ravn.rawlandcycles.com/ for 
> more on that, as it develops. Meanwhile, lots of folks are experimenting 
> with the Rat Traps on a variety of bikes: vintage 26" mtbs, 26" touring 
> bikes, disc bikes with the necessary clearance (e.g., the Elephant NFE), 
> purpose-built customs. Here's mine, a Surly Trucker DeLuxe with Rat Trap 
> Pass Extralights mounted under Planet Bike Cascadia ATB fenders; I've taken 
> to calling it the Monster Trucker. Like it a lot...
>
>
>
> 
>
> It would be surprising if some frame builder or manufacturer didn't step 
> into what looks like an emerging market.  Regardless of subsequent 
> developments with the Ravn (and I wish Sean every success with it, btw), 
> looks to me like the Rat Trap Pass is here to stay. 
>
> rod
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Hunqapillar (or other riv) as a dirt drop mountain bike?

[Mark Reimer]

Ah, that's my bike! I love riding my Atlantis on single track. Though two 
comments - the long touring frame geometry makes the bike a bit slow to 
turn, at least compared to a modern mountain bike. Not a big deal at all 
though, but notable. The bigger issue I've had is pedal strike. The BB is 
pretty low so I'm clipping them on rocks, scraping weeds, etc. Also on the 
58cm frame with big fat tires there is a bit of toe overlap. 

All in all it's awesome though

On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 6:01:33 AM UTC-5, Eric Daume wrote:
>
> If you're looking for a largish monstercross style bike, I have to put in 
> a shameless plug for my Velo Orange Camargue frameset for sale:
>
> http://bikingtoplay.blogspot.com/2013/07/the-for-sale-post.html
>
> Designed for drop bars, single speed or geared, clearance for 2.25" tires, 
> and a 350mm steerer lets you put the bars wherever you want them. It's 
> sized about like the large Gryphon.
>
> Eric
>
> On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 3:25 AM, brianweee  > wrote:
>
>> Thanks for your suggestion! I started looking into the Singular Gryphon. 
>> That bike might be a little bit more what I'm looking for (less touring, 
>> more adventure day riding). I saw that it is sold out on their website, 
>> where can one get a hold of a size large of one of those? 
>>
>>
>> On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 7:45:14 PM UTC-7, cyclot...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Tony replied while I was still typing away. Notice his bar height 
>>> though. That's important if you're going to be riding off road.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 7:42 PM, Tony DeFilippo  
>>> wrote:
>>>

 

 Bombadil, Nobby Nic's, Nitto Dirt Drops... also big grin!

 (need to repair/replace the rear wheel after finding stress cracks near 
 the spoke holes though)


 I feel like I've read that the Hunq was designed with Bosco style 
 upright bars in mind but the hallmark of most Riv frames is their ability 
 to be re-imagined.  So long as you can work out the cockpit-saddle formula 
 right a Hunq should do awesome as a drop bar-fat tired bike.

 -- 
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Cheers,
>>> David
>>>
>>> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace
>>>
>>> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
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>
>

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[RBW] Re: Joe Appaloosa geometry

[Braxton Colagross]

Yes, the thing everyone seems to be missing outside "Hillborne with greater 
clearances" is "Hillborne with longer chainstays." Those two sum up Joe A. 
for me. 

On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 9:46:30 AM UTC-7, Matt R wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> Just wondering if anyone has insider knowledge about the Joe Appaloosa 
> geometry? The last Riv email described it as a cross between a Hunq and 
> Atlantis, which sounds like my dream bike, but the recent Web Special 
> proto-Appaloosas appeared to be geometrically identical to Sam H, the only 
> obvious differences being larger tire clearances and canti posts. If it's 
> truly somewhere between Hunq and Atlantis, I'm gonna start saving my 
> pennies now. Any insights would be greatly appreciated, sounds like it will 
> be a wonderful bike!
>
> Cheers,
> Matt in Tucson
>

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[RBW] Re: New fat 700 tires! 700x42 ultra light

[Paul Brodek]

Further derailment and all that...  I've ridden Parigi-Roubaix for as long 
as Will, as well as Eroica/Strada Bianca the past 3-4yrs. Not nearly as 
many miles as Will, but I also never had even a whiff of tread 
delamination. However, my first/only pair of Alamanzo started getting edge 
peels after only a few trail rides. The same trails that never bothered the 
PR/SB/Eroica, BTW, it's not like I suddenly started doing endos and epic 
hucking (did I get that terminology right?) due to the presence of 
quasi-knobby tread. Too small a sample for me to conjecture the Alamanzo 
are more problematical than the smooth-tread tires, but it does put me in 
the camp that has first-hand experience with Challenge tire tread 
delamination. That I seem to hear about it more in a CX context, likely on 
Alamanzo tires, makes me go h

Back on topic, these new super-duper Soma tires haven't appeared on Soma's 
website yet, at least as far as I can browse. Are my pitiful browsing 
skills letting me down again, or are we still waiting? Anywhere I can find 
actual specs and stuff?

Paul Brodek
Hillsdale, NJ USA  

On Sunday, October 11, 2015 at 4:04:14 PM UTC-4, William deRosset wrote:
>
> Dear Ron,
>
> veering off-topic, but I've gone through thirty-five Parigi-Roubaix, 
> Strada Blanca, and Eroica tires since 2008. None have delaminated. Their 
> older (tubulars) had problems occasionally, as did Clement, FMB, and 
> (rarely) Vittoria tubulars.
>
> Best,
>
> Will
> William M. deRosset
> Fort Collins, CO
>
>
> On Saturday, October 10, 2015 at 6:19:38 AM UTC-6, Ron Mc wrote:
>>
>> Don't want to derail the thread, and I've heard the Challenge complaints 
>> in 3 forums, but have never experienced the problem with Challenge tires on 
>> (and off) 5 bikes for up to 7 years and well over 10,000 miles.  Also 
>> Vittoria hand-glued tires, which are great, but have short rubber life.  
>>
>> On Friday, October 9, 2015 at 12:37:55 PM UTC-5, Mark Reimer wrote:
>>>
>>> I'd be wary of hand glued. I"ve had at least 10 pairs of challenge CX 
>>> tires and most of them had the tread peel off the casing in short order. 
>>> Being active in the CX scene here, I've seen MANY other challenge tires 
>>> fail from the tread coming off. Some times on the first ride. That might be 
>>> a Challenge QC issue more so than the notion of hand-glued, but either way 
>>> makes me nervous. I've never had any other tire do that. 
>>>
>>> On Friday, October 9, 2015 at 12:33:34 PM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:

 the Challenge are also hand-glued tires.  I'm thinking the Somas will 
 be vulcanized tires with fine casings.  If they're hand-glued, they would 
 be pretty amazing tires, IMO.  


>>>

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[RBW] Re: FT - 48cm Noodles (heat treated)

[Paul Brodek]

PM sent, got on for ya!

On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 10:57:21 PM UTC-4, Tony DeFilippo wrote:
>
> The 48's work ok for me but I think 46 is my size.  Good shape, some 
> normal marks from use but not abused. I'm sure there is someone out there 
> wanting to try out the wider bars...  
>
> I'm looking for a straight trade, we both pay our own shipping costs. 
>  Bar's I'm interested in in;
>
> Noodle 46cm
> Nitto RM-013 (46cm or 48cm)
> Grand Bois Maes Parallel (44cm)
>
> Please hit me up off list. Thanks!
>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis or Hunqapillar

[Will]

Meh... I have 4 Tubus racks and 4 Ortlieb roll-top rear panniers. They get 
used every day by various members of my family. We have no complaints. They 
work. The engineering they present is necessary for quick attach/release 
functionality. This feature is critical for urban commuting and urban cargo 
hauling (groceries) where you never want to leave a bag on a bike. 

I suppose if I was riding single track, I'd select something that was 
shoelaced to the rack... but easy on-off is my need. And no one (well... 
maybe Arkel is close) does it any better. 

I do agree that a sloped TT makes for more seat post and therefore better 
seatbag "hang function". That's an important point, particularly if you 
plan to use abig seatbag. 

But I don't agree that Hunq is a "no contest" candidate. If you want a 
really long top tube and really long chain stays that's your choice, but 
that diagatube that comes with the frame will never be mine. 

Best,

Will

On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 9:31:24 PM UTC-5, Mike Schiller wrote:
>
> if you want to use bikepacking bags I  would go with the Hunq as a rear 
> bag needs more seatpost to work properly.  Also the sloping top tube gives 
> you more standover  for off-road dancing  and room for wider tires.  No 
> contest IMO.
>
> BTW I hate Ortliebs... tacky hooks  that bounce around on rough dirt and 
> an over Engineered mechanism.  I prefer simpler designs like Lone Peak 
> uses.  MUSA too.
>
> ~mike
> Carlsbad Ca
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: For those of you who don't subscribe to the Compass/BQ mailings ... New Compass Tires Now Available

[Rod Holland]

On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 12:05:05 PM UTC-4, iamkeith wrote:
>
>
> -  Even though I won't need one, I got curious and decided to check the 
> news regarding the Ravn progress, over on the rCog forum.  Looks like that 
> project might be dead.  Or at least its not going to be the uber-bike that 
> it once was.  Lots of angry and disappointed people.   Seems they've been 
> having trouble getting a manufacturer who is skilled enough to build with 
> the flexy, raked fork blades, cantilever brakes, and precision tubing 
> tolerances.  .   I really hope that doesn't mean that these tires will be 
> available only as a fleeting thing.  As pointed out above, there probably 
> aren't that many non-custom bikes out there that can even utilize them, 
> other than these XO-1s, All Rounders and smaller Atlanti.  
>
>
> So, the original Ravn spec went through a number of crowd-sourced 
metamorphoses, in the best Rawland tradition. A pretty attractive bicycle 
emerged from that: light, lively, and low-trail, with canti or V brakes, 
and, of course, clearance for the Rat Trap Pass tires, with fenders, 
available as a frameset or a complete. As you relate, Rawland's long-time 
Taiwanese fabrication vendor seems to have gotten stupid (probably through 
the loss of key personnel, the way it usually happens), and delivered a 
botched prototype that just wasn't going to be the bicycle folks were 
excited about. MEANWHILE... a different design, disc brakes based, was 
going very well, AND a new fabrication partnership and Rawland business 
model emerged. SO... the Ravn brand will now be applied to a different 
bicycle, which can still be called "enduro all road", said to be available 
in Spring 2016, as a complete bike only. This last detail caused a good 
deal of consternation on rCOG, both because the likely price tag is spendy 
(wouldn't cause a ripple in the as a Riv complete, of course), and because 
the typical Rawland owner actually likes building up bikes to their taste 
and/or spare parts bin. So the Ravn is still a viable egg, but will be a 
different bird when it hatches. See http://ravn.rawlandcycles.com/ for more 
on that, as it develops. Meanwhile, lots of folks are experimenting with 
the Rat Traps on a variety of bikes: vintage 26" mtbs, 26" touring bikes, 
disc bikes with the necessary clearance (e.g., the Elephant NFE), 
purpose-built customs. Here's mine, a Surly Trucker DeLuxe with Rat Trap 
Pass Extralights mounted under Planet Bike Cascadia ATB fenders; I've taken 
to calling it the Monster Trucker. Like it a lot...




It would be surprising if some frame builder or manufacturer didn't step 
into what looks like an emerging market.  Regardless of subsequent 
developments with the Ravn (and I wish Sean every success with it, btw), 
looks to me like the Rat Trap Pass is here to stay. 

rod

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Re: [RBW] Re: C&O in October

[Steve Palincsar]

On 10/13/2015 07:54 AM, Pondero wrote:

I'm back in Texas and trying to adjust back to real life.  But I'm still 
inspired by the warm hospitality to do more of this.  What a treat to meet you 
all!  You are even more interesting than your internet celebrity personas!

More photos and blog content coming, but here are my Day 1 photos...

https://flickr.com/photos/28889177@N06/sets/72157659359187960




How was the trail in the "warm water fishing area" at Dickerson?


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Re: [RBW] Re: C&O in October

[Pondero]

I'm back in Texas and trying to adjust back to real life.  But I'm still 
inspired by the warm hospitality to do more of this.  What a treat to meet you 
all!  You are even more interesting than your internet celebrity personas!

More photos and blog content coming, but here are my Day 1 photos...

https://flickr.com/photos/28889177@N06/sets/72157659359187960

Chris Johnson
Sanger, Texas

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[RBW] Re: Joe Appaloosa geometry

['Mark Etze' via RBW Owners Bunch]

If they plan on producing it sometime next year Riv must have their 
geometry charts finished by now. I hope they decide to make it in a larger 
stock size than do with any of their other large tired bikes. 

On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 7:10:00 AM UTC-4, Garth wrote:
>
>
>
>  The frame you mention is but "pie in the sky" as of today .   No one 
> can know a geometry for a bike that does not exist !  
>

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[RBW] Re: Joe Appaloosa geometry

[Garth]

 The frame you mention is but "pie in the sky" as of today .   No one 
can know a geometry for a bike that does not exist !  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Hunqapillar (or other riv) as a dirt drop mountain bike?

[Eric Daume]

If you're looking for a largish monstercross style bike, I have to put in a
shameless plug for my Velo Orange Camargue frameset for sale:

http://bikingtoplay.blogspot.com/2013/07/the-for-sale-post.html

Designed for drop bars, single speed or geared, clearance for 2.25" tires,
and a 350mm steerer lets you put the bars wherever you want them. It's
sized about like the large Gryphon.

Eric

On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 3:25 AM, brianweee  wrote:

> Thanks for your suggestion! I started looking into the Singular Gryphon.
> That bike might be a little bit more what I'm looking for (less touring,
> more adventure day riding). I saw that it is sold out on their website,
> where can one get a hold of a size large of one of those?
>
>
> On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 7:45:14 PM UTC-7, cyclot...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>>
>> Tony replied while I was still typing away. Notice his bar height though.
>> That's important if you're going to be riding off road.
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 7:42 PM, Tony DeFilippo  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> Bombadil, Nobby Nic's, Nitto Dirt Drops... also big grin!
>>>
>>> (need to repair/replace the rear wheel after finding stress cracks near
>>> the spoke holes though)
>>>
>>>
>>> I feel like I've read that the Hunq was designed with Bosco style
>>> upright bars in mind but the hallmark of most Riv frames is their ability
>>> to be re-imagined.  So long as you can work out the cockpit-saddle formula
>>> right a Hunq should do awesome as a drop bar-fat tired bike.
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cheers,
>> David
>>
>> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace
>>
>> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: C&O in October

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

Great report, Tony. It really was the perfect ride -- weather, trail, history, 
and most especially the company.  Thanks to all who joined in and especially 
Chris for putting it all together!



On Oct 12, 2015, at 10:37 PM, Tony DeFilippo 
mailto:vpi...@gmail.com>> wrote:

http://dr2dc.blogspot.com/2015/10/mr-pondero-comes-to-washington.html

Post with more pictures included.  Another gorgeous weekend in the bag and a 3 
day one at that.  This really is the best time of year for anything outdoors in 
the Mid-Atlantic.  I hope everyone involved made it home safely and enjoyed the 
rest of their riding on the C&O.  Thanks again to Chris for making the 
opportunity and providing the inspiration!

Tony



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Re: [RBW] Re: Hunqapillar (or other riv) as a dirt drop mountain bike?

[brianweee]

Thanks for your suggestion! I started looking into the Singular Gryphon. 
That bike might be a little bit more what I'm looking for (less touring, 
more adventure day riding). I saw that it is sold out on their website, 
where can one get a hold of a size large of one of those? 


On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 7:45:14 PM UTC-7, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Tony replied while I was still typing away. Notice his bar height though. 
> That's important if you're going to be riding off road.
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 7:42 PM, Tony DeFilippo  > wrote:
>
>>
>> 
>>
>> Bombadil, Nobby Nic's, Nitto Dirt Drops... also big grin!
>>
>> (need to repair/replace the rear wheel after finding stress cracks near 
>> the spoke holes though)
>>
>>
>> I feel like I've read that the Hunq was designed with Bosco style upright 
>> bars in mind but the hallmark of most Riv frames is their ability to be 
>> re-imagined.  So long as you can work out the cockpit-saddle formula right 
>> a Hunq should do awesome as a drop bar-fat tired bike.
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com .
>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com 
>> .
>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Cheers,
> David
>
> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace
>
> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>
>
>
>

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