Re: [RBW] Thinking of a Riv

[Tim Butterfield]

Doug,
Thanks for that information.  Should I email grant directly on picking
things or go through Roman or someone else?

Thanks.

TIm

On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 10:27 PM, dougP  wrote:

> Tim:
>
> A huge pro is number one on your list:  RBW knows the bike.  Their
> standard build kits have been developed over time and are an excellent
> value.  They are also willing to change components if you have something
> else you'd prefer, and they'll advise you if they think a change is
> unwise.
>
> Fit is all important and your concern is valid.  However, Riv's sizing
> system works for the bulk of the population.  I'd hazard a guess that if
> you're on anything from 50 to 64 cm Rivendell will be able to size it
> right.  Very tall and very short people can be difficult to fit but most of
> the rest of us can ride a standard frame.
>
> When I bought my Atlantis, we had several phone conversations & did the
> PBH measurement, talked about what I was riding & what I was looking for,
> and went thru the component list.  When the Big Box arrived (they do a
> wonderful job of packing), it was the first time I'd ever seen a Rivendell
> in person.  Within a short time, I'd finished the assembly & was out the
> door.  With a few minor adjustments (seat height, etc.), within a couple of
> miles I knew this bike fit & rode better than any other bike I'd owned.
>
> IMHO & experience you can trust Riv to deliver a bike that will fit well &
> work correctly.  Worked for me.
>
> dougP
>
> On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 8:15:13 PM UTC-7, Tim Butterfield wrote:
>>
>> Hi, all.
>>
>> I have some more build questions, though not component related this time.
>>
>> What are the pros and cons of having RBW build the bike instead of having
>> that done at the LBS?  Some factors I have thought about include:
>>
>> RBW
>> Pro - RBW knows the frame best and what would work on it
>> Con - Unless a part is RBW stock, I may have to buy most parts myself and
>> ship it to them
>> Con - RBW cannot ensure my fit of the assembled bike
>> Con - I cannot try out different stem lengths as easily
>>
>> LBS
>> Pro - Can ensure everything works together
>> Pro - Can order all/most parts themselves
>> Pro - Can ensure fit of assembled bike
>> Pro - Can test different stem lengths to check fit
>> Con - Not likely to be as familiar with building a Homer
>> Con - May have a preference for 'common' racer oriented gear
>> Con - May not be as willing to track down non-current (older) new parts
>>
>> I spoke with one LBS who said they could build it.  But, after a couple
>> of emails to them, I have not yet received a reply, though it has been
>> several days.  That lowers my trust factor in them.  So, I either need to
>> find a different LBS or have it built by RBW.  I'm not sure which way might
>> be preferable.
>>
>> What other factors would weigh for or against either RBW or the LBS doing
>> the build?  If you know of an LBS in NW WA that you would recommend to do
>> the build, please share that also.  I'm an hour and a half north of
>> Seattle, but could travel a little if needed.  Another option may be to
>> travel the ten hour round trip south to Portland to Rivelo, though I would
>> prefer not to have to travel that far if a qualified LBS is right near to
>> me.  I am willing to do that if it is the best option.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 7:14 PM, Tim Butterfield 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I've been thinking of getting a Rivendell bicycle for a long time.  I
>>> first joined this group to lurk back in 2010 and have been a member and
>>> sometimes lurker since then.  But, I had not made the commitment and
>>> purchased a Riv.  The closest I came was getting a Velo-Orange Rando.  That
>>> was sort of rivish.
>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/timbutterfield/sets/72157624827193423
>>>
>>> Being in the suburbs of Chicago near O'Hare airport limited my comfort
>>> using it the way it should have been.  That bike was sold before I left
>>> Chicago to live full-time in an RV.  Once we decided to settle in
>>> Anacortes, WA (still in the RV), I purchased a Specialized AWOL Comp,
>>> definitely not rivish.
>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/timbutterfield/sets/72157644371355428
>>>
>>> It's a nice bike, but I now want something more rivish, this time, the
>>> real thing.  I'm thinking of getting either the Roadeo or the A Homer
>>> Hilsen.  I like the idea of the liveliness and sportiness of the Roadeo,
>>> but like the bit of extra versatility of the AHH also.  With my weight at
>>> 200+ (PBH 33" or 83.8cm, age 51), I'm leaning towards the AHH instead of
>>> the Roadeo.  I can start more roadish with the AHH and, as I build my
>>> abilities further, expand the bike to fit new and/or different tasks
>>> without having to change frames.
>>>
>>> So, I'm fairly settled on getting my first Riv, one of the two
>>> mentioned.  My pondering now is mostly on how to appoint it.  My Rando was
>>> more modern with 

Re: [RBW] Thinking of a Riv

[dougP]

Tim:

A huge pro is number one on your list:  RBW knows the bike.  Their standard 
build kits have been developed over time and are an excellent value.  They 
are also willing to change components if you have something else you'd 
prefer, and they'll advise you if they think a change is unwise.  

Fit is all important and your concern is valid.  However, Riv's sizing 
system works for the bulk of the population.  I'd hazard a guess that if 
you're on anything from 50 to 64 cm Rivendell will be able to size it 
right.  Very tall and very short people can be difficult to fit but most of 
the rest of us can ride a standard frame.  

When I bought my Atlantis, we had several phone conversations & did the PBH 
measurement, talked about what I was riding & what I was looking for, and 
went thru the component list.  When the Big Box arrived (they do a 
wonderful job of packing), it was the first time I'd ever seen a Rivendell 
in person.  Within a short time, I'd finished the assembly & was out the 
door.  With a few minor adjustments (seat height, etc.), within a couple of 
miles I knew this bike fit & rode better than any other bike I'd owned.  

IMHO & experience you can trust Riv to deliver a bike that will fit well & 
work correctly.  Worked for me.  

dougP

On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 8:15:13 PM UTC-7, Tim Butterfield wrote:
>
> Hi, all.
>
> I have some more build questions, though not component related this time.
>
> What are the pros and cons of having RBW build the bike instead of having 
> that done at the LBS?  Some factors I have thought about include:
>
> RBW
> Pro - RBW knows the frame best and what would work on it
> Con - Unless a part is RBW stock, I may have to buy most parts myself and 
> ship it to them
> Con - RBW cannot ensure my fit of the assembled bike
> Con - I cannot try out different stem lengths as easily
>
> LBS
> Pro - Can ensure everything works together
> Pro - Can order all/most parts themselves
> Pro - Can ensure fit of assembled bike
> Pro - Can test different stem lengths to check fit
> Con - Not likely to be as familiar with building a Homer
> Con - May have a preference for 'common' racer oriented gear
> Con - May not be as willing to track down non-current (older) new parts
>
> I spoke with one LBS who said they could build it.  But, after a couple of 
> emails to them, I have not yet received a reply, though it has been several 
> days.  That lowers my trust factor in them.  So, I either need to find a 
> different LBS or have it built by RBW.  I'm not sure which way might be 
> preferable.
>
> What other factors would weigh for or against either RBW or the LBS doing 
> the build?  If you know of an LBS in NW WA that you would recommend to do 
> the build, please share that also.  I'm an hour and a half north of 
> Seattle, but could travel a little if needed.  Another option may be to 
> travel the ten hour round trip south to Portland to Rivelo, though I would 
> prefer not to have to travel that far if a qualified LBS is right near to 
> me.  I am willing to do that if it is the best option.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Tim
>
>
> On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 7:14 PM, Tim Butterfield  > wrote:
>
>> I've been thinking of getting a Rivendell bicycle for a long time.  I 
>> first joined this group to lurk back in 2010 and have been a member and 
>> sometimes lurker since then.  But, I had not made the commitment and 
>> purchased a Riv.  The closest I came was getting a Velo-Orange Rando.  That 
>> was sort of rivish.  
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/timbutterfield/sets/72157624827193423
>>
>> Being in the suburbs of Chicago near O'Hare airport limited my comfort 
>> using it the way it should have been.  That bike was sold before I left 
>> Chicago to live full-time in an RV.  Once we decided to settle in 
>> Anacortes, WA (still in the RV), I purchased a Specialized AWOL Comp, 
>> definitely not rivish.  
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/timbutterfield/sets/72157644371355428
>>
>> It's a nice bike, but I now want something more rivish, this time, the 
>> real thing.  I'm thinking of getting either the Roadeo or the A Homer 
>> Hilsen.  I like the idea of the liveliness and sportiness of the Roadeo, 
>> but like the bit of extra versatility of the AHH also.  With my weight at 
>> 200+ (PBH 33" or 83.8cm, age 51), I'm leaning towards the AHH instead of 
>> the Roadeo.  I can start more roadish with the AHH and, as I build my 
>> abilities further, expand the bike to fit new and/or different tasks 
>> without having to change frames.
>>
>> So, I'm fairly settled on getting my first Riv, one of the two 
>> mentioned.  My pondering now is mostly on how to appoint it.  My Rando was 
>> more modern with the 105 setup.  The AWOL was definitely modern with discs 
>> and SRAM setup.  But, I'm not tied to that.  Though I haven't used it much, 
>> I like the looks of a quill stem, drop bars, and downtube shifters.  It 
>> looks clean and simple.  I'm just not sure what 

Re: [RBW] Thinking of a Riv

[Tim Butterfield]

Joe,
Thanks for your comment.  I knew RBW is 'a' LBS, but also that it was not
'my' LBS.  It may be local, but not to me.  I wasn't sure how they could
get fit set up correctly without me being able to come into the shop to sit
on the bike with them checking measurements and relative positions.  Maybe
a photo of me on my AWOL and knowledge of it's size would be sufficient for
them to check my geometry in relation to my current bike and then apply
that to the AHH.  I guess I could send Grant an email just to see what he
has to say.

Thanks.

Tim

On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 10:03 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:

> It is an highly underreported fact that RBW is actually an LBS, and can
> get most any non-Riv-stock part you need, hence the Roadeos built with
> modern racer-ish stuff. I would chat with Grant & Co. about what build and
> fit you're looking for, then have them put it together for you.
>
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[RBW] Re: Triple to double crankset - how to do it gearwise?

[Peter Adler]

Sheldon absolutely does have 584 wheels in the Gear Calculator, but he 
refers to them as "650 x 38b 650B/38x584 650B", so they're easy to miss.

Peter "only two tubular options, too" Adler
Berkeley, CA/USA

On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 9:30:19 PM UTC-7, Lungimsam wrote:
>
> So, I think this would work (although the Sheldon calculator has no 584 
> wheel size, I used 27" nominal as option):
>

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Re: [RBW] Thinking of a Riv

[Tim Butterfield]

Patrick,
Thanks for the comments.  I would not want my closest LBS do do the build.
I think their shop is a bit too tight on space.  At least that is a
convenient excuse I can provide them.  I took my AWOL in for service and,
while there, the drop bar dented the top tube, which then had to be
replaced, partly at my expense.  So, not too happy with that.  I am
unfamiliar with other LBS in the area, though I would take recommendations
if others had them.

Your comments on Rivendell and Grant along with some prior comments
(another Patrick?) have my brain teasing with the idea of letting Grant
pick components and build it just to see what he comes up with.

Thanks.

Tim


On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 8:33 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> If I didn't want to build up a frame myself, my first choice would be a
> bike shop that I've worked with enough to be confident of their competence
> and willingness to help. Obviously, choosing stem and bar and crank and
> saddle will work best if you are actually on the spot.
>
> But if I had no such local shop, I'd be very ready to let Rivendell do it.
> I don't know about the other staff -- I daresay that others too have the
> needed expertise, but I'd certainly not hesitate to let Grant set up a new
> bike for me. I say this based on the 3 customs he designed for me. I built
> them, but he chose the  geometry and got it just right, and I would be
> confident that he could extend the service to build as well as to frame
> design.
>
> I'd certainly hesitate to entrust a nice, new Rivendell to a shop whose
> bona fides were unknown to me.
>
> On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 9:14 PM, Tim Butterfield 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi, all.
>>
>> I have some more build questions, though not component related this time.
>>
>> What are the pros and cons of having RBW build the bike instead of having
>> that done at the LBS?  Some factors I have thought about include:
>>
>> RBW
>> Pro - RBW knows the frame best and what would work on it
>> Con - Unless a part is RBW stock, I may have to buy most parts myself and
>> ship it to them
>> Con - RBW cannot ensure my fit of the assembled bike
>> Con - I cannot try out different stem lengths as easily
>>
>> LBS
>> Pro - Can ensure everything works together
>> Pro - Can order all/most parts themselves
>> Pro - Can ensure fit of assembled bike
>> Pro - Can test different stem lengths to check fit
>> Con - Not likely to be as familiar with building a Homer
>> Con - May have a preference for 'common' racer oriented gear
>> Con - May not be as willing to track down non-current (older) new parts
>>
>> I spoke with one LBS who said they could build it.  But, after a couple
>> of emails to them, I have not yet received a reply, though it has been
>> several days.  That lowers my trust factor in them.  So, I either need to
>> find a different LBS or have it built by RBW.  I'm not sure which way might
>> be preferable.
>>
>> What other factors would weigh for or against either RBW or the LBS doing
>> the build?  If you know of an LBS in NW WA that you would recommend to do
>> the build, please share that also.  I'm an hour and a half north of
>> Seattle, but could travel a little if needed.  Another option may be to
>> travel the ten hour round trip south to Portland to Rivelo, though I would
>> prefer not to have to travel that far if a qualified LBS is right near to
>> me.  I am willing to do that if it is the best option.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 7:14 PM, Tim Butterfield <
>> timbutterfi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I've been thinking of getting a Rivendell bicycle for a long time.  I
>>> first joined this group to lurk back in 2010 and have been a member and
>>> sometimes lurker since then.  But, I had not made the commitment and
>>> purchased a Riv.  The closest I came was getting a Velo-Orange Rando.  That
>>> was sort of rivish.
>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/timbutterfield/sets/72157624827193423
>>>
>>> Being in the suburbs of Chicago near O'Hare airport limited my comfort
>>> using it the way it should have been.  That bike was sold before I left
>>> Chicago to live full-time in an RV.  Once we decided to settle in
>>> Anacortes, WA (still in the RV), I purchased a Specialized AWOL Comp,
>>> definitely not rivish.
>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/timbutterfield/sets/72157644371355428
>>>
>>> It's a nice bike, but I now want something more rivish, this time, the
>>> real thing.  I'm thinking of getting either the Roadeo or the A Homer
>>> Hilsen.  I like the idea of the liveliness and sportiness of the Roadeo,
>>> but like the bit of extra versatility of the AHH also.  With my weight at
>>> 200+ (PBH 33" or 83.8cm, age 51), I'm leaning towards the AHH instead of
>>> the Roadeo.  I can start more roadish with the AHH and, as I build my
>>> abilities further, expand the bike to fit new and/or different tasks
>>> without having to change frames.
>>>
>>> So, I'm fairly settled on getting my 

[RBW] Re: Triple to double crankset - how to do it gearwise?

[GAJett]

I've run HS+G for about 40 years after reading an article by Frank Berto(?) 
in Bicycling.  I still strongly prefer HS+G over any other gearing - a very 
wide range with little duplication.  
* When shifting between the large & middle rings I have ratios like a 
straight block racing cassette (yet without the duplication of a typical 
compact double);
* I can make whole step changes when accelerating or for more rapid changes 
in slope or wind;
* Yet can reach down to very low gears on steep hills (or completely 
bonked);
* Of the 27 available combinations, at least 20 can be used without 
duplications;
* An additional 4 combos are available on the small ring if I don't want to 
shift to the middle, giving 24 usable gears out of the 27. (I avoid 
cross-chaining).  

I started with 5-spd Regina freewheel, then 6-spd SunTour Ultra, now an 
off-the-shelf Shimano 9-spd cassette.  When I built my AHH Grant seemed to 
think I was nuts, but accommodated my wishes anyway,  installing a 41-tooth 
TA middle ring in place of the standard 36.

I think of the HS+G as a wide range double with the ability to "fine-tune" 
my cadence on the top end.  I probably ride 75% on the middle (41) 
chain-ring, 15% small (24) on hills & 10% on the large (44) on gently 
rolling flats (to keep my cadence comfortable, and, yeah, the small 
differences make a difference).  I don't shift between the large rings as 
much as Steve suggests, but the versatility is exceptional!

Here is my gear chart with shifting through the 20 practical available 
combinations.  The whole steps average about 15%, with 1/2 steps around 
7%.  I generally start in the 41x28 gear, shifting whole steps for most 
use, especially when accelerating from a stop. I use the 1/2 steps to fine 
tune my cadence with minor changes in slope or wind.  On hills I drop to 
the 24 chain-ring.  On hills I'm going to want whole steps anyway as slopes 
change often.  On the 24 I often shift as far as the 16 in the rear if I 
think a more gentle slope may not last, rather than doing the double shift 
from the 24x24 to the 41x36 across 3 cogs in the back (which you'll do 
anyway on a compact double).  Yeah, these are "duplicates" but it's 
sometimes more convenient to stay on the small.

+- Cassette cog tooth count 
+
|   1214  16  18  21  24  28  32
36  |
+---+
 44 |  94.4-(17)-80.970.862.953.947.240.535.4  
31.5 |
| \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / 
\ |
| (7) (6) (7) (5) (7) (9) (7) (6) (7) (9) (7) (6) 
(7)   |
|   \/  \/  \/  \/  \/  \/  
\   |
 41 |  88.0  75.466.058.650.344.037.7
33.0-(13)-29.3 |
|
(14)_/ |
|   
/   |
 24 |  51.5  44.138.634.329.4
25.7<-->22.1<-->19.3<>17.2 |
|   (17) (14)(13)(17)(14)(17)(14) 
(13)  |
+---+
   (x): percent change between gears

On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 9:30:19 PM UTC-7, Lungimsam wrote:
>
> So, I think this would work (although the Sheldon calculator has no 584 
> wheel size, I used 27" nominal as option):
>
> 24/40 with an (11-13-15-18-21-24-28-34) 8-speed cassette would give me the 
> ratios I need. That is like all the ratios of my current middle and outer 
> rings combined with similar jumps between cogs.
>
> I could not get wide enough ratios with a 7-speed without huge cog jumps, 
> so looks like I would have to use an 8-speed, but allowing good friction 
> shifting still.
>
> But that would give me the ratios I need in one big ring, with the 24 as 
> the bail out. Though the 6 cog jump to the largest cog looks like it might, 
> in practice be too much.
>
> Maybe I just need to stick with the triple. Too much thinking.
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Thinking of a Riv

[Joe Bernard]

It is an highly underreported fact that RBW is actually an LBS, and can get 
most any non-Riv-stock part you need, hence the Roadeos built with modern 
racer-ish stuff. I would chat with Grant & Co. about what build and fit you're 
looking for, then have them put it together for you. 

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[RBW] Re: ACW store just got a big revamp and restock for all you Associated coffeeoutside types.

[Roger]

i just received my mug and not only did it arrive intact, it is the cat's 
pajamas!

On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 7:22:19 AM UTC-7, jinxed wrote:
>
> Over the last couple years I've had multiple requests for both tees and 
> ceramic at home mugs. Apologies for taking so long, but I have finally 
> dipped my toe in those waters.
>
> Decided to try out a small order of custom cycling caps made in TX by 
> Ellum Bag Works. Plus new enamel mugs and patches.
>
> Our weather has been quite off and on and seemingly the "off" has been 
> perfectly timed with my "on" to thwart my riding. Luckily it seems the ice 
> has broken and finally got out for some of my own coffeeoutside excursions. 
> It's amazing how recharging getting back on the bike is. Even with fitness 
> being in the tank, it's so good to get pedaling.
>
> 
> Association of Caffeinated Wheelmen store 
> 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Triple to double crankset - how to do it gearwise?

[Patrick Moore]

I've very often set up my cassette with a 6 t jump between the biggest
cogs; no problem with a good derailleur, especially when the big cog is a
bailout.

"Too much thinking". Nah, it's fun to worry about gearing.

On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 10:30 PM, Lungimsam  wrote:

>
>
> But that would give me the ratios I need in one big ring, with the 24 as
> the bail out. Though the 6 cog jump to the largest cog looks like it might,
> in practice be too much.
>
> Maybe I just need to stick with the triple. Too much thinking.
>
> --
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Getting the message out.

[Patrick Moore]

This is something of a Segway, but pertinent to the thread.

I'm puzzled by the angst expressed over the state of the bicycle
marketplace Perhaps it is different where others live, but  here in ABQ,
NM, which I daresay has considerably more bike shops per capita than other
places, it is very clear that (1) the good shops are thriving and (2) that
different shops have very different ways of being "good" ones, and (3) that
there is a far, far greater choice locally for all kinds of riders today
than there was 10 or 15 years ago. For $400 to $800 today -- roughly $140
and $275 in 1980 dollars, per the BLS -- there is a very wide choice of
decent bikes, and today's $400 bike is far better than 1980's $140 bike.

The 4 well established shops nearest me have all expanded in the last few
years, and the 3 I know personally have thrived by service as much as the
range of inventory.

Certainly in this city, the LBS market is hardly failing, or falling into a
schism between discount online sales and bricks/mortar focus on the high
end roadie market.

And, FWIW, most of the "people of color" around here drive SUVs or pickup
trucks, even if old ones, while most commuters are middle class and
younger; and certainly the Rivendell market is upscale and not down! The
down and outer riding a scavenged mountain bike is very definitely the
exception.

Patrick "somewhat colored himself -- yellow and white and a little brown"
Moore

On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 10:53 AM, Evan Baird  wrote:

> [...] The problem is that the traditional LBS model is failing,  [...]
> Shops need to be welcoming community spaces. There's no room for mediocre
> service in this economy.
>
> --


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**
**
*The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and
individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu

*Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the
world revolves.) *Carthusian motto

*It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart

*Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle

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[RBW] Re: Triple to double crankset - how to do it gearwise?

[Lungimsam]

So, I think this would work (although the Sheldon calculator has no 584 
wheel size, I used 27" nominal as option):

24/40 with an (11-13-15-18-21-24-28-34) 8-speed cassette would give me the 
ratios I need. That is like all the ratios of my current middle and outer 
rings combined with similar jumps between cogs.

I could not get wide enough ratios with a 7-speed without huge cog jumps, 
so looks like I would have to use an 8-speed, but allowing good friction 
shifting still.

But that would give me the ratios I need in one big ring, with the 24 as 
the bail out. Though the 6 cog jump to the largest cog looks like it might, 
in practice be too much.

Maybe I just need to stick with the triple. Too much thinking.

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[RBW] Re: Wald Basket??

[masmojo]

I think the difference between Walds normal baskets & Rivendells is the Riv 
baskets look like they dont have the hangers or struts. 

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[RBW] Re: FS: Kent Eriksen S Coupled Titanium Bike ::: Gravel / CX / Pave: Any Surface Fun (xpost from ibob)

[masmojo]

I dig it the most!

I just got no money! :-(

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Re: [RBW] Triple to double crankset - how to do it gearwise?

[Patrick Moore]

There are very many ways to skin this cat, but I like to do this:

Choose one ring, whether it be the outer or the middle in a triple, or the
outer on a double, on which I can do most of my riding, including downhills
and tailwinds, and most hills and headwinds. I do this by changing my
cassette as needed. I first choose the lowest high and the highest low that
are convenient, and then try to get the desired cruising gears in the
middle of the cluster. Me, I like 5 or so very closely spaced gears in the
(for road) 60" to 80" range; a 50" and a 40" are nice on the low end, and
an 85" or so is nice for a high. I won't spurn a 90" or even 100" high, but
such gears are very low down on my list of wants.

If I use a wide range double, I'd choose the cogs to give me this sort of
spread on the outer ring. If I were using a triple, I'd go slightly higher
at both high and low end -- that 90 or 95 or 100" high and a 50" low, say,
with the middle chosen more as a separate intermediate range -- say from
mid 70s to 30s -- instead of being set up for sequential shifting with the
big ring. With the Matthews, I run a 44 outer for pavement -- 84" down to
48", a 40 for dirt -- 76" down to 38"; and the granny down to 25". I don't
intend shifting sequentially between the 44 and the 40; they are separate
ranges for different conditions. Frankly, I'd choose a wide range double,
except that the gearing I prefer is easier to get on my particular crankset
(standard external bearing Bontrager mtb crank) with a triple than with a
double (ie, they don't make 39 t and 25 t rings for the 104/64 type of
crank).

Then I choose a granny or inner that gives me the lowest gear I even
theoretically might use on this bike -- the criterion for this being the
type of riding I expect to use the bike for. A road bike won't get the same
gearing as a bike meant for steep off road climbs. For me, a 25" low would
be gravy and icing and gilding all in one, and the 26X30 low on the
Matthews gives me just that.

Regarding derailleurs: probably not; unless you swap in cogs that are much
bigger than you are using now, there would be no point. You might have to
shorten the chain. Heck, I didn't even lower the LX fd after I tossed the
original 46 outer and installed a 38 in the middle position to use as the
big ring; it shifted fine.

Why do you want to switch to a double? Do you have a concrete goal in mind,
or is this just an experiment? If the latter, then try it out. I've tried
just about every combination using cassettes with up to 9 cogs, and it is
based on trying all of these, and discovering what I don't like, that
allows me to know what I do like.

Here is the 38/24 double I used on the Fargo -- note, 28.5" wheels. What I
sort of slightly dislike is the 68" and 64" cruising gears; I prefer the
70"-66"-60" series that the 44 gives me. As you might guess, it's really
not that big a deal, but I do prefer slightly higher gearing with the 175
mm Bontrager.

38.0 24.0
13.0 83.3
14.0 77.4 48.9
15.0 72.2 45.6
16.0 67.7 42.8
17.0 63.7 40.2
18.0 60.2 38.0
20.0 54.2 34.2
23.0 47.1 29.7
27.0 40.1 25.3
Again, skin the cat in the way you prefer to do it.


On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 9:42 PM, Lungimsam  wrote:

> History:
> I use a 26-36-46 up front right now
> I use a 13-30 7-speed cassette in back (avoids autoshifts with friction
> that way).
> Bleriot. 135mm d'outs in the back.
> This enables 95% of the hills I ride without dropping to the granny ring.
> But sometimes I must use it. Happy to do so, too.
> I ain't giving up friction shifting, and I ain't giving up 7-speed. So
> don't even.
>
>
> 1. I know if I go to compact double, a 24 chainring will be the inner
> ring, so that is settled. In stone. Because of the climbs I sometimes
> encounter.
>
> But it is selecting the outside ring that gets me.
>
> 2. The majority of hills where I ride I ride in the 36 x 30 combo.
> Anything harder and I dump down to the granny. 26 x 30.
> So there is no way I could ride a 40-something big ring. So I am confused
> about how to select the best toothcount for me for my big ring so that I
> don't alos spin out on the downhills, yet can do the uphills without the
> granny dump.
>
> 3. Should I just use the ring that would enable me to cruise flats in the
> middle of cassette?
> 4. Should I also then change the cassette to the widest 7-speed possible?
>
> I once tried a racer geared compact double bike and it wasn't for me. No
> low enough small ring and too big of a big ring resulted in lots of FD
> shifting, which I am trying to avoid.
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Thinking of a Riv

[Patrick Moore]

If I didn't want to build up a frame myself, my first choice would be a
bike shop that I've worked with enough to be confident of their competence
and willingness to help. Obviously, choosing stem and bar and crank and
saddle will work best if you are actually on the spot.

But if I had no such local shop, I'd be very ready to let Rivendell do it.
I don't know about the other staff -- I daresay that others too have the
needed expertise, but I'd certainly not hesitate to let Grant set up a new
bike for me. I say this based on the 3 customs he designed for me. I built
them, but he chose the  geometry and got it just right, and I would be
confident that he could extend the service to build as well as to frame
design.

I'd certainly hesitate to entrust a nice, new Rivendell to a shop whose
bona fides were unknown to me.

On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 9:14 PM, Tim Butterfield 
wrote:

> Hi, all.
>
> I have some more build questions, though not component related this time.
>
> What are the pros and cons of having RBW build the bike instead of having
> that done at the LBS?  Some factors I have thought about include:
>
> RBW
> Pro - RBW knows the frame best and what would work on it
> Con - Unless a part is RBW stock, I may have to buy most parts myself and
> ship it to them
> Con - RBW cannot ensure my fit of the assembled bike
> Con - I cannot try out different stem lengths as easily
>
> LBS
> Pro - Can ensure everything works together
> Pro - Can order all/most parts themselves
> Pro - Can ensure fit of assembled bike
> Pro - Can test different stem lengths to check fit
> Con - Not likely to be as familiar with building a Homer
> Con - May have a preference for 'common' racer oriented gear
> Con - May not be as willing to track down non-current (older) new parts
>
> I spoke with one LBS who said they could build it.  But, after a couple of
> emails to them, I have not yet received a reply, though it has been several
> days.  That lowers my trust factor in them.  So, I either need to find a
> different LBS or have it built by RBW.  I'm not sure which way might be
> preferable.
>
> What other factors would weigh for or against either RBW or the LBS doing
> the build?  If you know of an LBS in NW WA that you would recommend to do
> the build, please share that also.  I'm an hour and a half north of
> Seattle, but could travel a little if needed.  Another option may be to
> travel the ten hour round trip south to Portland to Rivelo, though I would
> prefer not to have to travel that far if a qualified LBS is right near to
> me.  I am willing to do that if it is the best option.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Tim
>
>
> On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 7:14 PM, Tim Butterfield  > wrote:
>
>> I've been thinking of getting a Rivendell bicycle for a long time.  I
>> first joined this group to lurk back in 2010 and have been a member and
>> sometimes lurker since then.  But, I had not made the commitment and
>> purchased a Riv.  The closest I came was getting a Velo-Orange Rando.  That
>> was sort of rivish.
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/timbutterfield/sets/72157624827193423
>>
>> Being in the suburbs of Chicago near O'Hare airport limited my comfort
>> using it the way it should have been.  That bike was sold before I left
>> Chicago to live full-time in an RV.  Once we decided to settle in
>> Anacortes, WA (still in the RV), I purchased a Specialized AWOL Comp,
>> definitely not rivish.
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/timbutterfield/sets/72157644371355428
>>
>> It's a nice bike, but I now want something more rivish, this time, the
>> real thing.  I'm thinking of getting either the Roadeo or the A Homer
>> Hilsen.  I like the idea of the liveliness and sportiness of the Roadeo,
>> but like the bit of extra versatility of the AHH also.  With my weight at
>> 200+ (PBH 33" or 83.8cm, age 51), I'm leaning towards the AHH instead of
>> the Roadeo.  I can start more roadish with the AHH and, as I build my
>> abilities further, expand the bike to fit new and/or different tasks
>> without having to change frames.
>>
>> So, I'm fairly settled on getting my first Riv, one of the two
>> mentioned.  My pondering now is mostly on how to appoint it.  My Rando was
>> more modern with the 105 setup.  The AWOL was definitely modern with discs
>> and SRAM setup.  But, I'm not tied to that.  Though I haven't used it much,
>> I like the looks of a quill stem, drop bars, and downtube shifters.  It
>> looks clean and simple.  I'm just not sure what it's like to live with.  I
>> expect that, like many things, it is a matter of adapting to it.  But,
>> using DT shifters or bar ends does set a direction as neither would work
>> with an 11-speed I could have instead.  I'm trying to consider the pros and
>> cons of each.
>>
>> With my AWOL, I leave it locked to the cabana just outside my RV.  Some
>> RVs have sufficient inside storage for a bike.  Mine doesn't.
>>
>> My questions to the group are these:  As I am not 

[RBW] Re: PSA - Good price on a small frame Atlantis

[drew]

Yes! After seeing yours, I have been getting major guilt trips in the best way

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Re: [RBW] Thinking of a Riv

[Tim Butterfield]

Hi, all.

I have some more build questions, though not component related this time.

What are the pros and cons of having RBW build the bike instead of having
that done at the LBS?  Some factors I have thought about include:

RBW
Pro - RBW knows the frame best and what would work on it
Con - Unless a part is RBW stock, I may have to buy most parts myself and
ship it to them
Con - RBW cannot ensure my fit of the assembled bike
Con - I cannot try out different stem lengths as easily

LBS
Pro - Can ensure everything works together
Pro - Can order all/most parts themselves
Pro - Can ensure fit of assembled bike
Pro - Can test different stem lengths to check fit
Con - Not likely to be as familiar with building a Homer
Con - May have a preference for 'common' racer oriented gear
Con - May not be as willing to track down non-current (older) new parts

I spoke with one LBS who said they could build it.  But, after a couple of
emails to them, I have not yet received a reply, though it has been several
days.  That lowers my trust factor in them.  So, I either need to find a
different LBS or have it built by RBW.  I'm not sure which way might be
preferable.

What other factors would weigh for or against either RBW or the LBS doing
the build?  If you know of an LBS in NW WA that you would recommend to do
the build, please share that also.  I'm an hour and a half north of
Seattle, but could travel a little if needed.  Another option may be to
travel the ten hour round trip south to Portland to Rivelo, though I would
prefer not to have to travel that far if a qualified LBS is right near to
me.  I am willing to do that if it is the best option.

Thanks.

Tim


On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 7:14 PM, Tim Butterfield 
wrote:

> I've been thinking of getting a Rivendell bicycle for a long time.  I
> first joined this group to lurk back in 2010 and have been a member and
> sometimes lurker since then.  But, I had not made the commitment and
> purchased a Riv.  The closest I came was getting a Velo-Orange Rando.  That
> was sort of rivish.
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/timbutterfield/sets/72157624827193423
>
> Being in the suburbs of Chicago near O'Hare airport limited my comfort
> using it the way it should have been.  That bike was sold before I left
> Chicago to live full-time in an RV.  Once we decided to settle in
> Anacortes, WA (still in the RV), I purchased a Specialized AWOL Comp,
> definitely not rivish.
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/timbutterfield/sets/72157644371355428
>
> It's a nice bike, but I now want something more rivish, this time, the
> real thing.  I'm thinking of getting either the Roadeo or the A Homer
> Hilsen.  I like the idea of the liveliness and sportiness of the Roadeo,
> but like the bit of extra versatility of the AHH also.  With my weight at
> 200+ (PBH 33" or 83.8cm, age 51), I'm leaning towards the AHH instead of
> the Roadeo.  I can start more roadish with the AHH and, as I build my
> abilities further, expand the bike to fit new and/or different tasks
> without having to change frames.
>
> So, I'm fairly settled on getting my first Riv, one of the two mentioned.
> My pondering now is mostly on how to appoint it.  My Rando was more modern
> with the 105 setup.  The AWOL was definitely modern with discs and SRAM
> setup.  But, I'm not tied to that.  Though I haven't used it much, I like
> the looks of a quill stem, drop bars, and downtube shifters.  It looks
> clean and simple.  I'm just not sure what it's like to live with.  I expect
> that, like many things, it is a matter of adapting to it.  But, using DT
> shifters or bar ends does set a direction as neither would work with an
> 11-speed I could have instead.  I'm trying to consider the pros and cons of
> each.
>
> With my AWOL, I leave it locked to the cabana just outside my RV.  Some
> RVs have sufficient inside storage for a bike.  Mine doesn't.
>
> My questions to the group are these:  As I am not yet doing longer
> distances, are there still benefits to the more traditional setups?  If I
> pick either one, what might I later miss the other may have provided?  Are
> there likely to be any weather related or other wear issues leaving a Riv
> locked to the RV park cabana like I do my AWOL?  I'm doubtful of that, but
> don't want to mistreat it either.  Any thing else I should consider?
>
> Thanks for any advice you have.
>
> Tim
>
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[RBW] Re: The Ocean Air Cycles Docena is totally awesome.

[davidcha]

Yes, that front roll gives an alternate access to items in the lower section of 
the bag. It's especially nice on those rainy rando rides - you know there's a 
cache of undisturbed dry items in there! 

+1 on the Berthoud decaleur. Super easy installation and it is pretty 
bombproof. I would recommend some blue Loctite on the connector bolts. I also 
strap the bag onto the top of the Mark's rack for additional support, 
especially on unpaved roads.

One tip - I added some coroplast to the back of the bag (where the decaleur 
connects) as well as under the map partition for additional stability.

The Docena has been a great investment for me and I hope it works out that way 
for you.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Triple to double crankset - how to do it gearwise?

[Steve Palincsar]

On 06/02/2016 06:43 PM, Ron Mc wrote:


I quit smoking pot in the previous century.  A wide-7 cyclotouriste, 
half-steps + granny, is every bit as versatile as a modern compact 
double with a 10-speed cassette, and even functions easier in rolling 
terrain.


Not sure I get the smoking pot reference, but I think I would agree with 
you about the versatility of a 7-speed HSG compared with 10-spd compact 
double.  I wouldn't try to make one out of a 10 speed cassette, though.



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[RBW] FS- Nitto, Paul, Zefal, Rivendell Sackville, VP-001 & SRAM

[Bruce Smitham]

For sale are some goodies from  my garage that I no longer need:
VP-001 silver pedals in excellent condition $45
2 Nitto R bottle cages in excellent condition $40 each or 2 for $75
Nitto R-14 top rack with all hardware and P-Clamps. Stays were cut to 12 
inches. Excellent/new condition $90 
Rivendell Sackville saddlesack XS in grid grey and in excellent condition 
$55
Paul Components Engineering "Love Levers" compact in black. New $80
Nitto Technomic quill stem. 50mm stem length and 225mm quill 1" length. 
Some marks for insertion $20
Zefal HPX frame pump silver No. 4 fits gaps between 50cm-56cm in excellent 
condition $30
Crane bell- either copper or brass but I can't remember $8
Tange BB 37 X 24T L-68-R in good condition $10
Sram Rival 2 X 10 front derailleur 31.8 clamp black in excellent condition 
$20
Sram Apex Road shift/brake lever set 2 X 10 in excellent condition $125
Salsa Woodchipper 44cm black handlebars with 31.8 clamp. 30mm cut and filed 
off each end. In great condition $45

Pictures here: https://flic.kr/s/aHskBqb7uj

Paypal "friends and family" or cover any fees. Shipping is extra CONUS only.

Let me know if you have any questions. Thanks,

Bruce in San Diego (310) 968-6910

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[RBW] Re: FS: Kent Eriksen S Coupled Titanium Bike ::: Gravel / CX / Pave: Any Surface Fun (xpost from ibob)

[Anne]

Okayso Riv has used / demo Rodeo for sale (with 105 build) for $3700 
and $150 ship.
Here we've got a premium American builder, an American built titanium bike 
with Ultegra (with demo-like mileage). It's coupled for travel, has the 
case and all the rest. Wider rims and tires, easy to have it set up w/o any 
saddle to bar drop. 

Standard 27.2 seatpost dia if you want to use a Nitto seatpost instead. 
Clearance for wider tires than are on it now.
Fender/rack mounts at the dropout.

This is a complete ti bike with couplers, travel case and essentially a new 
build for less than the cost of a bare coupled frame.

No ti love here at all? 

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Re: [RBW] Re: FS 59cm Rivendell Rodeo

[Bruce Smitham]

Thanks Esteban.

On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 1:48 PM, Esteban  wrote:

> That's a rad bike and a great deal! If I didn't have my '99 Joe/Joe Road
> Custom, I'd be all over this...
>
> Esteban
> San Diego, Calif.
>
>
> On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 11:21:39 AM UTC-7, Bruce Smitham wrote:
>>
>> For sale is my 59cm Rivendell Rodeo. I've come to the realization that it
>> is just a little too big for me and it's time to let it go. It's such a
>> beautiful bike and works perfect. I purchased it from fellow group member
>> Don Compton and proceeded to pour a considerable amount of money into it
>> with multiple upgrades. I can answer any questions you might have and I
>> tried to document the condition with my limited photography skills. I'd
>> love to sell it local here in San Diego but am willing to pack it and ship
>> it via bikeflights.com if necessary. I'm asking $2,300 via paypal
>> "friends and family" plus shipping CONUS. Extra discount for local pick up,
>> Here are the pictures: https://flic.kr/s/aHskxBeswb
>>
>> And here is the build:
>> 59cm Rivendell Rodeo in baby blue color
>> White Industries VBC crankset 172.5mm arms & 44/28 rings
>> White Industries bottom bracket
>> Campagnolo 10 speed Chorus Carbon shifters/brake levers
>> Campagnolo 10 speed Chorus cassette 13/27
>> Campagnolo 10 speed Centaur rear derailleur
>> Campagnolo 10 speed Centaur front derailleur
>> Interloc Racing Designs Needle bearing headset
>> Nitto Noodle handlebar 44cm
>> Nitto quill stem 90mm
>> Nitto Seatpost
>> Brooks B17 Titanium Champion Special saddle black with copper rivets
>> Campagnolo Record hubs
>> Velocity Aerohead rims 32 spokes rear & 28 spokes front
>> Schwalbe Kojak 700c X 35mm tires
>> Silver long reach brake calipers
>> Salsa gel bar tape black
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Bruce in San Diego (310) 968-6910
>>
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[RBW] Re: The diet

[Zach Kahl]

My best resource is http://www.ibreatheimhungry.com for recipes. The author 
there has a great collection of recipes that she shares and offers a pretty 
great variety to boot. 


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Re: [RBW] ACW store just got a big revamp and restock for all you Associated coffeeoutside types.

[WETH]

Brad,
The cap arrived and is quite nice!  The large fits my pumpkin head (7 1/2 - 7 
3/4 depending on haircut) well.
Thanks for a great transaction.
Erl

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[RBW] WTB: Albastache Bar.

[David Banzer]

Anyone have a used Albastache for sale? Want to try these out and potentially 
put them on a couple bikes if they work out. 
I have some things for trade. Would give a good deal in your favor if you want 
a bag or Willow chainrings. 
David
Chicago
a few trade items at treetop.bigcartel.com

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Re: [RBW] Re: The diet

[davecstein]

I munched down on some saag paneer and chicken tandoori the other day,pretty 
tasty and I think low carb. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 2, 2016, at 5:35 PM, Lee Legrand  wrote:
> 
> If you can stop eating somosa and rice, sure. 
> 
>> On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 6:52 PM, Lungimsam  wrote:
>> Can one do these Just eat and ketogenics and still eat Indian food? 
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[RBW] Drop bars on Roadeo demos. Which make/model?

[David Banzer]

Anyone know what make/model of drop bars are on a couple Roadeo demo builds?
Here: http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/f-roadeo-wsf1.htm
They appear to be Nitto, not Noodles or Mark's bar. 
David
Chicago

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Re: [RBW] Re: The diet

[Lee Legrand]

If you can stop eating somosa and rice, sure. 

On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 6:52 PM, Lungimsam  wrote:

> Can one do these Just eat and ketogenics and still eat Indian food?
>
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[RBW] Re: Massively upgraded Appaloosa

[Zach Kahl]

Bill! I was only making a topic for clarity and simplicity, in no way was 
meaning to make you look like a village idiot. I think that upgrades like 
brakes and wheelsets are often overlooked but can make the biggest 
difference to a ride (or in this case, "a slow down"). Sorry for the tongue 
in cheek maybe coming off as a maybe less helpful post, was meant in good 
fun. 

Again, I have had a great trip watching your Appaloosa grow up. Thanks as 
always for your contributions here!!

On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 9:58:59 AM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Zach
>
> I don't know that it would be fair for me to call you "wrong".  If that's 
> how you wanted to understand what I did, then I wouldn't try to talk you 
> out of it.  
>
> From my perspective, it was the equivalent of seeing a hat that I liked, 
> and buying it on impulse, because I liked it.  Did I *need* a hat? 
>  Probably not.  Did I *need * to run Shimano XTR brakes on my Appaloosa? 
>  No.  Did I *need* to change brake cable housing on my Appaloosa?  No.  
>
> I did, however, decide to upgrade the brakes on my Appaloosa, and that 
> decision has led to several improvements to my bicycle.  Two of those 
> several improvements were: 
>
> 1.  New cable housing made the brakes less squishy
> 2.  New cable housing is reflective, further increasing my conspicuity
>
> There are other improvements, but I wouldn't encourage people to 
> desperately start searching for NOS XTR brakes.  I bought them used and on 
> impulse for a price that I felt was too low to pass up.  I shared the story 
> for the entertainment of the group.  If a fellow Appaloosa owner goes and 
> swaps brake cable housing and finds a big improvement, while leaving the 
> stock brakes in place, I will be similarly entertained to hear about it.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 6:51:16 PM UTC-7, Zach Kahl wrote:
>>
>> Am I wrong to understand that you bought new brakes when all you needed 
>> to do in the first place was replace your housing?
>>
>> Thanks for the updates with your journey of the Appaloosa, it's been a 
>> fun one to watch.
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: eCLEM

[David Person]

Very cool Joe.


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Re: [RBW] Re: eCLEM

[Joe Bernard]

To be clear - I'm not sure it is anymore in this long thread - my interest in 
ebikes is primarily because they're fun. Yes it makes my big hill easier to 
climb, but I didn't buy my first electric for any other reason than I found one 
cheap on Craigslist in my area, and thought it would be interesting to try. It 
turned out to be WAY more fun than I anticipated, which is how we got to eCLEM. 
I can still climb the hill on my non-asist bikes, and sometimes still do. 
Sometimes I don't!

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[RBW] Re: PSA - Good price on a small frame Atlantis

[WETH]

Drew, 
Looking like his and hers Atlanti for your house!

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[RBW] PSA - Good price on a small frame Atlantis

[WETH]

The Mrs. only rides orange bikes!

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[RBW] PSA - Good price on a small frame Atlantis

[WETH]

Steve,
It were orange, I'd have already bought it! :)

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[RBW] Re: The diet

[Lungimsam]

Can one do these Just eat and ketogenics and still eat Indian food? 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Triple to double crankset - how to do it gearwise?

[Ron Mc]

I quit smoking pot in the previous century.  A wide-7 cyclotouriste, 
half-steps + granny, is every bit as versatile as a modern compact double 
with a 10-speed cassette, and even functions easier in rolling terrain.  

On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 3:10:41 PM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>
>
> On 06/02/2016 09:09 AM, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> and it works just as well today as it ever did, with all the versatility 
> of a compact double x10
>
>
> ...
>
> Or am I totally misunderstanding you?
>
>

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Re: [RBW] ACW store just got a big revamp and restock for all you Associated coffeeoutside types.

['jinxed' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Jeff,

Good to hear the ceramic made it ok. This is my first go sending out 
"glassware". They seem super tough, but for single orders, I got bigger 
boxes to add more padding. ALWAYS happy with the embroidery work from 
Walter at Falls Creek Outfitters. 

On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 3:29:40 PM UTC-6, Jeff wrote:
>
> Got my loot today - the new patch and cafe mug are really great, and the 
> enamel mug will trade duties with my gravel n' grind mug. Haven't tried on 
> the 
> cap yet as I just got home from my sweaty mid-Atlantic commute.
>
> -Jeff
> Silver Spring, MD
>
>>
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Appendectomy and cycling- how long to heal?

[Kainalu]

I'm glad to be rid of it, I just wondered if there were any nightmarish stories 
of riding before the 4 week mark. I think I'll do my best to stay within the 
prescribed guidelines. In 6 or so weeks I'll be seeing my mustard Clem for the 
first time, so perhaps I'll make that my must ride by date. Took my two year 
old for a long stroller roll today and did some weeding in the planter, and as 
an oxy-codone every four hours isn't giving me any false courage, I'm just 
taking it easy...
Thanks 
-Kai 
Brooklyn NY 

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Re: [RBW] Re: eCLEM

[Steve Palincsar]

On 06/02/2016 05:30 PM, Evan Baird wrote:

For the record, I'm keeping it all organic until my shitty joints finally crap 
out.



Even when they do, prosthetics don't require electric powered bicycles 
(having half an artificial knee I can speak with personal knowledge on 
this subject).  Actually most everyone I know using e-bikes has either 
blocked coronary arteries or a heart damaged by an MI.  That could just 
be the demographic I hang out with, though...


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Re: [RBW] Re: Getting the message out.

[Evan Baird]

This is exaclty what I'm talking about. I've always pushed Soma to keep their 
web pricing comparable to brick and mortar, but as more and more people sign up 
for Amazon Prime it's really a race to the bottom. Any publiclly held bike 
company that doesnt offer direct sales is going to get an earful when Canyon 
starts moving big numbers. And even if brand try to enforce MAP that doesnt 
prevent startups like Casper and Harrys from spinning up buissnesses to compete 
with in product catagory they think they have an edge in.

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[RBW] Re: Wald Basket??

[Evan Baird]

I've also seen them mounted up with copper wire. I havent tried it myself, but 
it looks dope.

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[RBW] FS - A few Brooks saddles and Cookset.

[RJM]

Cookset has been sold.

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[RBW] Re: eCLEM

[Evan Baird]

For the record, I'm keeping it all organic until my shitty joints finally crap 
out.

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Re: [RBW] ACW store just got a big revamp and restock for all you Associated coffeeoutside types.

[Jeff Lesperance]

Got my loot today - the new patch and cafe mug are really great, and the
enamel mug will trade duties with my gravel n' grind mug. Haven't tried on the
cap yet as I just got home from my sweaty mid-Atlantic commute.

-Jeff
Silver Spring, MD

On Wednesday, June 1, 2016, 'jinxed' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Thanks guys! Had a ton of orders over the weekend. Got everything process
> and shipped out Tue-Wed so you should see it soon!
>
> René
> May 28
> Nice! Just ordered a cap and a t-shirt.
>
> WETH
> May 28
> Looks great! I just ordered a cap to go with my enamel mug!
>
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA - Good price on a small frame Atlantis

[Dan McNamara]

I could help with that. 

Dan

> On Jun 2, 2016, at 11:47 AM, drew  wrote:
> 
> if someone could facilitate a purchase and shipping to los angeles, ill buy 
> it. 
> 
> 
>> On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 9:04:49 AM UTC-7, Surlyprof wrote:
>> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik/5615426116.html
>> 
>> I thought this was a great price on a well appointed Atlantis on the Bay 
>> Area CL.  People are usually asking this price for older Rams and 
>> Hillbornes.  Wild color!  
>> 
>> 
>> John
> 
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[RBW] PSA - Good price on a small frame Atlantis

[islaysteve]

Paging Erl! (For Mrs.)

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Re: [RBW] Re: Getting the message out.

[Brewster Fong]

On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 9:53:51 AM UTC-7, Evan Baird wrote:
>
> Peter, that's already happening. The problem is that the traditional LBS 
> model is failing, and moat comminities don't have access to coop 
> workspaces. As a "veteran" shop rat, I have a dewp affection for the LBS 
> and the culture surrounding it, but I've also seen first hand how the 
> chevanism, zenophobia and elitism that people encounter in many shops can 
> turn them away from the "sport". Those of us who are deciples of Sheldon 
> will get along regardless, but the average dealer isn't going to be able to 
> compete with ecommerce. If the industry insists of pushing products that 
> are increasingly not user servicable we're going to see a lot more Circut 
> Cities and Comp USAs in the bike world. Shops need to be welcoming 
> community spaces. There'sno room for mediocre service in this economy.


This is really good advice. However, things are going to get worst and/or 
harder for the LBS. OK, people here aren't into the "racing" bike 
thing. But, many shops who cater to those folks  are about to get a rude 
awakening as another new business model is going to be launched!  

*Canyon * bikes, established in 
2001 and headquartered in Koblenz, Germany. has  adopted an internet based 
direct sales strategy, effectively cutting out the ‘middle man’, allowing 
Canyon to build bikes that represent exceptionally good value.  I have at 
least one friend who has the latest in bikes - 2016 Trek Domane SLR with 
Sram Etap wireless shifting - can't get any fancier than that! - is 
drooling over the soon to be Sram Etap wireless with hydraulic brakes and 
has already stated that his new bike will be a Canyon SLX with Sram Etap 
hydro disc brakes!  

In his case, he has a nephew who is a "Trek U" trained mechanic who 
services his bikes. He basically ignores LBSs, even thou we have some very 
good ones in the SF Bay Area and only orders things online. For him, the 
Canyon is the most logical and really only way to go.  

Now, you may say, yeah that's one guy. But there are literally hundreds, if 
not thousands of guys like this. 

Personally, I prefer to give my business to my LBS. He is fine with me 
bringing in my own parts and only charges me labor for his time spent on my 
bikes. He's been in business for over 40 years. He's had his shares of ups 
and downs and more than once has said his accountant told him that he could 
make much more money doing anything else. But his love for cycling is 
second to none and he just happens to be one of the best mechanics 
around. If I'm not doing the work myself, I go to him or another one-man 
shop to help keep these guys in business. I also recommend my LBS to 
everyone  especially for fitting. It's hard to be a LBSGood Luck!

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[RBW] Re: FS 59cm Rivendell Rodeo

[Esteban]

That's a rad bike and a great deal! If I didn't have my '99 Joe/Joe Road 
Custom, I'd be all over this...

Esteban
San Diego, Calif.

On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 11:21:39 AM UTC-7, Bruce Smitham wrote:
>
> For sale is my 59cm Rivendell Rodeo. I've come to the realization that it 
> is just a little too big for me and it's time to let it go. It's such a 
> beautiful bike and works perfect. I purchased it from fellow group member 
> Don Compton and proceeded to pour a considerable amount of money into it 
> with multiple upgrades. I can answer any questions you might have and I 
> tried to document the condition with my limited photography skills. I'd 
> love to sell it local here in San Diego but am willing to pack it and ship 
> it via bikeflights.com if necessary. I'm asking $2,300 via paypal 
> "friends and family" plus shipping CONUS. Extra discount for local pick up, 
> Here are the pictures: https://flic.kr/s/aHskxBeswb
>
> And here is the build:
> 59cm Rivendell Rodeo in baby blue color
> White Industries VBC crankset 172.5mm arms & 44/28 rings
> White Industries bottom bracket
> Campagnolo 10 speed Chorus Carbon shifters/brake levers
> Campagnolo 10 speed Chorus cassette 13/27
> Campagnolo 10 speed Centaur rear derailleur
> Campagnolo 10 speed Centaur front derailleur
> Interloc Racing Designs Needle bearing headset
> Nitto Noodle handlebar 44cm
> Nitto quill stem 90mm
> Nitto Seatpost
> Brooks B17 Titanium Champion Special saddle black with copper rivets
> Campagnolo Record hubs
> Velocity Aerohead rims 32 spokes rear & 28 spokes front
> Schwalbe Kojak 700c X 35mm tires
> Silver long reach brake calipers
> Salsa gel bar tape black
>
> Thanks, 
>
> Bruce in San Diego (310) 968-6910
>

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[RBW] Re: PSA - Good price on a small frame Atlantis

[masmojo]

Amtrak!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Triple to double crankset - how to do it gearwise?

[Steve Palincsar]

On 06/02/2016 01:48 PM, William deRosset wrote:

One other note:

If going to a HS+G, you would maximize the 7s range (or really, pick 
cogs to approximate a reasonable full step), and chainrings (centered 
around your JRA gear just like with the compact double outer ring) 
with half that range difference. For example, with a 13-34 cassette, 
you'd have an optimum 15% variation between cogs, and, 7.5% variation 
between your chainrings (so a  36/39 or similar). You'll have to 
compromise to find ratios that are commercially available (like, for 
example, that 39T outer ring is vaporware for any double crank that 
will easily accommodate a 36T inner, though a 39/42 would work fine 
and is available for standard doubles), and gives you a lower low than 
your current 36X30..




I used 44/48 plus a granny with the 13-34 7 spd K cassette, and thought 
it worked as well as any HS setup I'd ever used over the years.


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Re: [RBW] Re: Triple to double crankset - how to do it gearwise?

[Steve Palincsar]

On 06/02/2016 09:09 AM, Ron Mc wrote:
and it works just as well today as it ever did, with all the 
versatility of a compact double x10


What 10 speed cassettes are you using that are properly spaced for 
half-stepping?  Usually anything 8 and above was designed for crossover, 
with gears spaced too close together to make splitting the difference 
worth while;  what's more, getting to the half-way gear with most modern 
stuff would require a 2 or 3 tooth difference vs the 4 or 5 tooth 
difference we used to use back in 5 & 6 speed freewheel days, and I'm 
not even sure chainrings come in those combinations anymore.


As for a half-step arrangement with a 10 speed cassette and chainrings 2 
or 3 teeth apart, I don't really see this giving you the versatility of 
a compact double 10.  For one thing, you give up all your low gears.  
This is why we used to use HS+G rather than just HS, the way the racers did.


Or am I totally misunderstanding you?


On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 8:06:34 AM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:

but this becomes a question of changing a single chainring vs. a
whole drivetrain

On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 8:02:47 AM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote:

There was a lot to like about HSG back in the day.  Still,
with today's components (>7 speed cassettes) it no longer
makes much sense.

On 06/02/2016 08:57 AM, Ron Mc wrote:

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[RBW] FS - A few Brooks saddles and Cookset.

[RJM]

I have two Brooks saddles for sale and a never used Trangia Cookset. 

The Cookset has the box and doesn't have a mark on it. Shipped for $75.00.

Brooks saddle #1 is a Brooks B17 Select that has been ridden about two hundred 
miles. Very good shape and comes in the original box with all the original 
stuff but does have a mark on the side shown in the pictures.   -   $110.00 
shipped

Brooks #2 is a Brooks B17 Special honey colored. Good condition with about 700 
miles of use. It doe have a few marks on the side but nothing major.  -  $85.00 
shipped

I also have a Brooks B17 Select black in color but no pictures yet...will take 
soon. I got it used so don't know the mileage but it is in solid shape.  - 
$75.00 shipped

Here is a link for pics

https://flickr.com/photos/93186953@N00/sets/72157658753091239

I can take PayPal or check/money order for payment. If you need additional pics 
to assess condition just holler via email and I will get them to you ASAP. 
Great saddles and these have nice thick leather, but I found something I like a 
little more. I will add pics of the black saddle as soon as I get them. Thanks, 
Ryan.

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[RBW] Re: The Ocean Air Cycles Docena is totally awesome.

[S. Greco]

I've been keeping extra layers down their - clean shirt, sweater, etc - 
stuff that is nice to have but you aren't grabbing for it often. Top layer 
keeps camera, snacks, sketchbook. 
Also the little pouches on the back side fit a plastic water bottle 
perfectly, which while I don't usually have them because reusable water 
bottles exist, it's nice to be able to stick them there rather than have 
them roll around in a bottle cage because they are too small.

I've been moving this bag back and forth between two bikes and the bungee 
has been working remarkably well. It's surprisingly stable anchored just by 
a bungee to the bars at the top and velcro strapped to a mini nitto front 
rack on the bottom.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Getting the message out.

[masmojo]

Evan , I especially like what you are saying and you are SO right! It's guys 
like me that are the loudest voices on the Internet.  Guys who can afford to 
ride Rivendells, have multiple bikes and live in nice houses/communities. The 
difference between me and a lot of people is I worry/think about people other 
than myself (@ least I try to) I fully understand that the people who benefit 
most from bicycle advocacy are the people least likely to ask for it or even 
know that there is such a thing!
I am keenly aware of my non English speaking cycling brothers or even more 
crucially maybe, the large number of mentally ill or mentally challenged who 
ride bikes not necessarily because they want to, but because they cannot get a 
drivers license! We lock our bikes up together,  we critique each others rigs, 
we look out for one another.
I can't tell you how often I complain about what is a nuisance for me in 
getting from point A to point B, then I think "OK, if this is difficult for me 
the semi-serious cyclists on fairly sophisticated equipment,  I can't imagine 
what it's like for Pablo (just to give him a name) on his Walmart bike in the 
rain!
Our local bike infrastructure gang are busy promoting recreational bike paths 
as a quality if life enhancement (like the health club) when what we need is to 
make it easy for everyone to just go where they need/want to go on a bike. 

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[RBW] Re: PSA - Good price on a small frame Atlantis

[drew]

if someone could facilitate a purchase and shipping to los angeles, ill buy 
it. 


On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 9:04:49 AM UTC-7, Surlyprof wrote:
>
> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik/5615426116.html
>
> I thought this was a great price on a well appointed Atlantis on the Bay 
> Area CL.  People are usually asking this price for older Rams and 
> Hillbornes.  Wild color!  
>
>
> John
>

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[RBW] Re: The diet

[Mike in WA]

Regarding magnesium deficiency, this is a supplement I use that may be 
helpful http://www.ancient-minerals.com/products/magnesium-oil/. There's 
good info on the website about Mg deficiency, though they're clearly trying 
to sell you something. I buy into their claim that it's very difficult to 
absorb magnesium through nutrition and transdermal application is the way 
to go. When I've stayed on with regular application of this stuff, I've 
noticed improvements in mood, sleep and energy levels. I've recently come 
to see that my crappy diet may have more to do with that and will be 
interested to see how the ketogenic plan improves things along with Mg 
supplementation. 

On Wednesday, June 1, 2016 at 6:15:28 PM UTC-7, dstein wrote:
>
> I struggle with the fatigue during the first few weeks and consequently I 
> have never been able to go more than three weeks in ketosis. Usually after 
> 2 weeks I feel myself 'adapting' and start to feel better but then 
> something else happens in life and I veer off course. Supposedly a lot of 
> that is known as the 'keto flu' and is attributed to a lack of magnesium 
> and potassium. Brothy soups (or straight broth) is a good cure for that. 
>
> Here's a good resource where most people have asked questions, with 
> various quality of responses: https://www.reddit.com/r/keto/
> And recipes: https://www.reddit.com/r/ketorecipes
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA - Good price on a small frame Atlantis

[Joe Bernard]

I'm 5'-7". How does the group feel about an Atlantis with a tall seatpost and 
BMX bars? I'm kidding ;)

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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA - Good price on a small frame Atlantis

[masmojo]

What a great buy for the right person!

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[RBW] Re: VO heads up

[masmojo]

I got 2 saddles, the rear hub &  a chain guard. It's hard to find a good 
non-disk hub these days & I have a build I can use it on. Did not get a front,  
because I am strictly dynamo for fronts these days.  I am kinda OK with the 
saddles being a little hard to break in, I was more worried they wouldn't last. 
If they are hard that's OK, that just means they will hopefully last a long 
while. My friend ordered one too, but he rides less than I do!? Maybe I can 
break his in for him? ;-)
I always wanted one of those chain guards and I fear this might be my last 
chance to get one!:-(

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[RBW] FS 59cm Rivendell Rodeo

[Bruce Smitham]

For sale is my 59cm Rivendell Rodeo. I've come to the realization that it 
is just a little too big for me and it's time to let it go. It's such a 
beautiful bike and works perfect. I purchased it from fellow group member 
Don Compton and proceeded to pour a considerable amount of money into it 
with multiple upgrades. I can answer any questions you might have and I 
tried to document the condition with my limited photography skills. I'd 
love to sell it local here in San Diego but am willing to pack it and ship 
it via bikeflights.com if necessary. I'm asking $2,300 via paypal "friends 
and family" plus shipping CONUS. Extra discount for local pick up, Here are 
the pictures: https://flic.kr/s/aHskxBeswb

And here is the build:
59cm Rivendell Rodeo in baby blue color
White Industries VBC crankset 172.5mm arms & 44/28 rings
White Industries bottom bracket
Campagnolo 10 speed Chorus Carbon shifters/brake levers
Campagnolo 10 speed Chorus cassette 13/27
Campagnolo 10 speed Centaur rear derailleur
Campagnolo 10 speed Centaur front derailleur
Interloc Racing Designs Needle bearing headset
Nitto Noodle handlebar 44cm
Nitto quill stem 90mm
Nitto Seatpost
Brooks B17 Titanium Champion Special saddle black with copper rivets
Campagnolo Record hubs
Velocity Aerohead rims 32 spokes rear & 28 spokes front
Schwalbe Kojak 700c X 35mm tires
Silver long reach brake calipers
Salsa gel bar tape black

Thanks, 

Bruce in San Diego (310) 968-6910

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[RBW] Re: Triple to double crankset - how to do it gearwise?

[William deRosset]

One other note:

If going to a HS+G, you would maximize the 7s range (or really, pick cogs 
to approximate a reasonable full step), and chainrings (centered around 
your JRA gear just like with the compact double outer ring) with half that 
range difference. For example, with a 13-34 cassette, you'd have an optimum 
15% variation between cogs, and, 7.5% variation between your chainrings (so 
a  36/39 or similar). You'll have to compromise to find ratios that are 
commercially available (like, for example, that 39T outer ring is vaporware 
for any double crank that will easily accommodate a 36T inner, though a 
39/42 would work fine and is available for standard doubles), and gives you 
a lower low than your current 36X30..

Best,

Will

On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 11:32:01 AM UTC-6, William deRosset wrote:
>
> Dear Lungimsam,
>
> If you're staying with 7speed, and this isn't a new bike, then why not 
> just go to a half-step (either bigger middle or, more likely, a smaller 
> outer) + granny? What is driving you away from a triple for this machine?
>
> Seven rear cogs is the magic transition point between when half-step gets 
> pointless and crossover gears start to be viable for general use, though I 
> really prefer either 7s (2T jumps in the center of the cassette) or 9s-10s 
> (1t jumps in center of cassette--those single-tooth jumps from 13-19 plus 
> alpine climbing gears are sure nice) for super-compact double applications.
>
> The basic concept of the compact double is a 1X with a granny--the shift 
> is not subtle between the outer and inner ring, unlike with a standard 
> (52-42) or half-step gearing. I find a 48/32 or a 46/30 much more 
> convivial. 
>
> I combine this 1:1.5 range in front with a 1:2 range in the back to give 
> me 1:3 total gearing range. I put the JRA gear right in the middle of my 
> preferred (13-27, 13-26 or 13-29) 2:1 cassettes. 
>
> That's the design procedure: find your middle cog (ordinarily a 17T to 19T 
> cog, your needed low gear, and your needed high gear. Select your outer 
> chainring to put your typical crusing gear on that 17 to 19T range, your 
> small cog to hit your "needed" high gear (most folks need a far lower high 
> than is provided by typical setups), and your big cog to get your needed 
> low (with the granny, which can be up to a 16T drop from the outer without 
> too much trouble from modern front derailleurs).
>
> For that matter, a 52/42 double works fine as long as I'm willing to live 
> with relatively high low gears--42 for JRA and cyclocross, and 52 for group 
> riding and descents. I may have to walk from time to time, or stand and 
> grunt
>
> Best,
>
> Will
>
> William M. deRosset
> Fort Collins, CO
>
>
> On Wednesday, June 1, 2016 at 9:42:51 PM UTC-6, Lungimsam wrote:
>>
>> History:
>> I use a 26-36-46 up front right now
>> I use a 13-30 7-speed cassette in back (avoids autoshifts with friction 
>> that way).
>> Bleriot. 135mm d'outs in the back.
>> This enables 95% of the hills I ride without dropping to the granny ring. 
>> But sometimes I must use it. Happy to do so, too.
>> I ain't giving up friction shifting, and I ain't giving up 7-speed. So 
>> don't even.
>>
>>
>> 1. I know if I go to compact double, a 24 chainring will be the inner 
>> ring, so that is settled. In stone. Because of the climbs I sometimes 
>> encounter.
>>
>> But it is selecting the outside ring that gets me.
>>
>> 2. The majority of hills where I ride I ride in the 36 x 30 combo. 
>> Anything harder and I dump down to the granny. 26 x 30.
>> So there is no way I could ride a 40-something big ring. So I am confused 
>> about how to select the best toothcount for me for my big ring so that I 
>> don't alos spin out on the downhills, yet can do the uphills without the 
>> granny dump.
>>
>> 3. Should I just use the ring that would enable me to cruise flats in the 
>> middle of cassette?
>> 4. Should I also then change the cassette to the widest 7-speed possible?
>>
>> I once tried a racer geared compact double bike and it wasn't for me. No 
>> low enough small ring and too big of a big ring resulted in lots of FD 
>> shifting, which I am trying to avoid.
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Triple to double crankset - how to do it gearwise?

[Ron Mc]

great idea Bill  :)

On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 12:32:01 PM UTC-5, William deRosset wrote:
>
> Dear Lungimsam,
>
> If you're staying with 7speed, and this isn't a new bike, then why not 
> just go to a half-step (either bigger middle or, more likely, a smaller 
> outer) + granny? What is driving you away from a triple for this machine?
>
> Seven rear cogs is the magic transition point between when half-step gets 
> pointless and crossover gears start to be viable for general use, though I 
> really prefer either 7s (2T jumps in the center of the cassette) or 9s-10s 
> (1t jumps in center of cassette--those single-tooth jumps from 13-19 plus 
> alpine climbing gears are sure nice) for super-compact double applications.
>
> The basic concept of the compact double is a 1X with a granny--the shift 
> is not subtle between the outer and inner ring, unlike with a standard 
> (52-42) or half-step gearing. I find a 48/32 or a 46/30 much more 
> convivial. 
>
> I combine this 1:1.5 range in front with a 1:2 range in the back to give 
> me 1:3 total gearing range. I put the JRA gear right in the middle of my 
> preferred (13-27, 13-26 or 13-29) 2:1 cassettes. 
>
> That's the design procedure: find your middle cog (ordinarily a 17T to 19T 
> cog, your needed low gear, and your needed high gear. Select your outer 
> chainring to put your typical crusing gear on that 17 to 19T range, your 
> small cog to hit your "needed" high gear (most folks need a far lower high 
> than is provided by typical setups), and your big cog to get your needed 
> low (with the granny, which can be up to a 16T drop from the outer without 
> too much trouble from modern front derailleurs).
>
> For that matter, a 52/42 double works fine as long as I'm willing to live 
> with relatively high low gears--42 for JRA and cyclocross, and 52 for group 
> riding and descents. I may have to walk from time to time, or stand and 
> grunt
>
> Best,
>
> Will
>
> William M. deRosset
> Fort Collins, CO
>
>
> On Wednesday, June 1, 2016 at 9:42:51 PM UTC-6, Lungimsam wrote:
>>
>> History:
>> I use a 26-36-46 up front right now
>> I use a 13-30 7-speed cassette in back (avoids autoshifts with friction 
>> that way).
>> Bleriot. 135mm d'outs in the back.
>> This enables 95% of the hills I ride without dropping to the granny ring. 
>> But sometimes I must use it. Happy to do so, too.
>> I ain't giving up friction shifting, and I ain't giving up 7-speed. So 
>> don't even.
>>
>>
>> 1. I know if I go to compact double, a 24 chainring will be the inner 
>> ring, so that is settled. In stone. Because of the climbs I sometimes 
>> encounter.
>>
>> But it is selecting the outside ring that gets me.
>>
>> 2. The majority of hills where I ride I ride in the 36 x 30 combo. 
>> Anything harder and I dump down to the granny. 26 x 30.
>> So there is no way I could ride a 40-something big ring. So I am confused 
>> about how to select the best toothcount for me for my big ring so that I 
>> don't alos spin out on the downhills, yet can do the uphills without the 
>> granny dump.
>>
>> 3. Should I just use the ring that would enable me to cruise flats in the 
>> middle of cassette?
>> 4. Should I also then change the cassette to the widest 7-speed possible?
>>
>> I once tried a racer geared compact double bike and it wasn't for me. No 
>> low enough small ring and too big of a big ring resulted in lots of FD 
>> shifting, which I am trying to avoid.
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA - Good price on a small frame Atlantis

[Joe Bunik]

Has pedigree: the prior (original?) owner was (ex-)RBW Keven's spouse.
=- Joe Bunik
Walnut Creek, CA

On 6/2/16, dougP  wrote:
> Looks a good price.  My wife paid something like that (not sure) for her 47
>
> cm Atlantis in stock color with no racks.  In her case, seller was
> motivated & had to move quickly.  Someone should grab this one before she
> changes her mind.
>
> dougP
>
> On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 9:04:49 AM UTC-7, Surlyprof wrote:
>>
>> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik/5615426116.html
>>
>> I thought this was a great price on a well appointed Atlantis on the Bay
>> Area CL.  People are usually asking this price for older Rams and
>> Hillbornes.  Wild color!
>>
>>
>> John
>>
>
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[RBW] Re: Triple to double crankset - how to do it gearwise?

[William deRosset]

Dear Lungimsam,

If you're staying with 7speed, and this isn't a new bike, then why not just 
go to a half-step (either bigger middle or, more likely, a smaller outer) + 
granny? What is driving you away from a triple for this machine?

Seven rear cogs is the magic transition point between when half-step gets 
pointless and crossover gears start to be viable for general use, though I 
really prefer either 7s (2T jumps in the center of the cassette) or 9s-10s 
(1t jumps in center of cassette--those single-tooth jumps from 13-19 plus 
alpine climbing gears are sure nice) for super-compact double applications.

The basic concept of the compact double is a 1X with a granny--the shift is 
not subtle between the outer and inner ring, unlike with a standard (52-42) 
or half-step gearing. I find a 48/32 or a 46/30 much more convivial. 

I combine this 1:1.5 range in front with a 1:2 range in the back to give me 
1:3 total gearing range. I put the JRA gear right in the middle of my 
preferred (13-27, 13-26 or 13-29) 2:1 cassettes. 

That's the design procedure: find your middle cog (ordinarily a 17T to 19T 
cog, your needed low gear, and your needed high gear. Select your outer 
chainring to put your typical crusing gear on that 17 to 19T range, your 
small cog to hit your "needed" high gear (most folks need a far lower high 
than is provided by typical setups), and your big cog to get your needed 
low (with the granny, which can be up to a 16T drop from the outer without 
too much trouble from modern front derailleurs).

For that matter, a 52/42 double works fine as long as I'm willing to live 
with relatively high low gears--42 for JRA and cyclocross, and 52 for group 
riding and descents. I may have to walk from time to time, or stand and 
grunt

Best,

Will

William M. deRosset
Fort Collins, CO


On Wednesday, June 1, 2016 at 9:42:51 PM UTC-6, Lungimsam wrote:
>
> History:
> I use a 26-36-46 up front right now
> I use a 13-30 7-speed cassette in back (avoids autoshifts with friction 
> that way).
> Bleriot. 135mm d'outs in the back.
> This enables 95% of the hills I ride without dropping to the granny ring. 
> But sometimes I must use it. Happy to do so, too.
> I ain't giving up friction shifting, and I ain't giving up 7-speed. So 
> don't even.
>
>
> 1. I know if I go to compact double, a 24 chainring will be the inner 
> ring, so that is settled. In stone. Because of the climbs I sometimes 
> encounter.
>
> But it is selecting the outside ring that gets me.
>
> 2. The majority of hills where I ride I ride in the 36 x 30 combo. 
> Anything harder and I dump down to the granny. 26 x 30.
> So there is no way I could ride a 40-something big ring. So I am confused 
> about how to select the best toothcount for me for my big ring so that I 
> don't alos spin out on the downhills, yet can do the uphills without the 
> granny dump.
>
> 3. Should I just use the ring that would enable me to cruise flats in the 
> middle of cassette?
> 4. Should I also then change the cassette to the widest 7-speed possible?
>
> I once tried a racer geared compact double bike and it wasn't for me. No 
> low enough small ring and too big of a big ring resulted in lots of FD 
> shifting, which I am trying to avoid.
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: The Ocean Air Cycles Docena is totally awesome.

[dougP]

"Is it supposed to give you access to the lower half of the bag without 
disturbing the stuff on top?"

Yes.  It's for stuff you don't need access to very often but when you do, 
you don't have to dump the upper area contents to get there.  Which can be 
a lot'o'stuff.

dougP

On Wednesday, June 1, 2016 at 10:57:19 PM UTC-7, Brad wrote:
>
> I got a Docena in the same order. I finally got the decaleur set up this 
> week (I went with a Berthoud) and it all works great. I haven't really 
> figured out how that front roll is supposed to work. Is it supposed to give 
> you access to the lower half of the bag without disturbing the stuff on top?
>
> Brad P.
> Queens
>
> On Wednesday, June 1, 2016 at 3:26:27 PM UTC-4, S. Greco wrote:
>>
>> I got this bag through the last round of pre-orders after kicking myself 
>> for missing the first round. I initially ordered it to put on a Weigle that 
>> i've been slowly building up but as it is currently unrideable, I figured I 
>> would strap it on the SO for a test ride. I gotta say this thing is 
>> seriously cool. Just the right size for a picnic, or a beer run, or really 
>> anything I could think of though those particular missions have been 
>> completed successfully : )
>>
>> The front roll top situation is very clever and U lock holder has been a 
>> game changer. 
>> I will always dislike the clear-plastic-map-holder-top-window-pocket that 
>> rando style bags have.
>> I would much rather just have it be fabric or a net or nothing, rather 
>> than a material that I know will fail before the rest of the bag. 
>> The XPAC that this bag is made out of is super cool. Definitely 
>> lightweight as compared to more traditional options while still feeling 
>> very high quality. 
>>
>> I don't have a decaleur yet, and might not get one. I have the top rigged 
>> to the bars via bungee through the webbing loop. This works fine, though 
>> the webbing loop is on the lid and so you need to undo your bungee each 
>> time you want to open the top. It would be awesome if future iterations of 
>> this bag had a webbing loop just below the lid so anti-decaleur types can 
>> tether their Docena to the bars and still open the top. 
>>
>> I just snapped some quick pictures while out on its first ride. I'll add 
>> some packed pics soon.
>>
>> This bag totally rocks.
>>
>> - Steve
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: PSA - Good price on a small frame Atlantis

[dougP]

Looks a good price.  My wife paid something like that (not sure) for her 47 
cm Atlantis in stock color with no racks.  In her case, seller was 
motivated & had to move quickly.  Someone should grab this one before she 
changes her mind.  

dougP

On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 9:04:49 AM UTC-7, Surlyprof wrote:
>
> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik/5615426116.html
>
> I thought this was a great price on a well appointed Atlantis on the Bay 
> Area CL.  People are usually asking this price for older Rams and 
> Hillbornes.  Wild color!  
>
>
> John
>

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[RBW] Re: VO heads up

[Philip Kim]

gotcha, i've seen framesets, cranks, and stuff on there before that weren't 
discontinued. maybe the hubs are on sale because of sales and not because 
of quality? i never bit on those hubs, only because they were 4x the cost 
of a shimano 105 hub.

On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 12:51:59 PM UTC-4, David Banzer wrote:
>
> I think just the hi-lo hub. I don't think I can recall a product that was 
> put in 'Specials' that wasn't discontinued.
> David
> Chicago
>
> On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 10:44:06 AM UTC-5, Philip Kim wrote:
>>
>> are they discontinuing these hubs? would be a shame as i've heard nothing 
>> but good things about these hubs.
>>
>> On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 9:12:48 AM UTC-4, David Banzer wrote:
>>>
>>> I agree - I have a B17 clone and had to due Swallow butcher job on it to 
>>> get it comfy, that after doing the water-soak and ride method to break it 
>>> in.
>>> I was tempted by the lo-hi hub, but figured if VO is discontinuing it, 
>>> there's probably a reason why - I don't want to find out what that reason 
>>> is. 
>>> David
>>> Chicago
>>>
>>> On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 6:55:21 AM UTC-5, Howard Hatten wrote:

 I jumped on one of those VO saddles a couple years ago for $50. It 
 looked so nice I had to try it. The leather was very stiff.  I was never 
 able to get it to break in so I gave it away. 

 Howard
 Livonia Mi

>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Getting the message out.

[Evan Baird]

Peter, that's already happening. The problem is that the traditional LBS model 
is failing, and moat comminities don't have access to coop workspaces. As a 
"veteran" shop rat, I have a dewp affection for the LBS and the culture 
surrounding it, but I've also seen first hand how the chevanism, zenophobia and 
elitism that people encounter in many shops can turn them away from the 
"sport". Those of us who are deciples of Sheldon will get along regardless, but 
the average dealer isn't going to be able to compete with ecommerce. If the 
industry insists of pushing products that are increasingly not user servicable 
we're going to see a lot more Circut Cities and Comp USAs in the bike world. 
Shops need to be welcoming community spaces. There'sno room for mediocre 
service in this economy.

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[RBW] Re: Appendectomy and cycling- how long to heal?

[Ron Mc]

(it's actually an ersatz organ that we haven't used since we ate tree bark 
;)  )

On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 11:47:30 AM UTC-5, David Banzer wrote:
>
> ...
> As my brother told me, you now have one less organ to worry about.
> David
> Chicago
>
>

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[RBW] Re: VO heads up

[David Banzer]

I think just the hi-lo hub. I don't think I can recall a product that was 
put in 'Specials' that wasn't discontinued.
David
Chicago

On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 10:44:06 AM UTC-5, Philip Kim wrote:
>
> are they discontinuing these hubs? would be a shame as i've heard nothing 
> but good things about these hubs.
>
> On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 9:12:48 AM UTC-4, David Banzer wrote:
>>
>> I agree - I have a B17 clone and had to due Swallow butcher job on it to 
>> get it comfy, that after doing the water-soak and ride method to break it 
>> in.
>> I was tempted by the lo-hi hub, but figured if VO is discontinuing it, 
>> there's probably a reason why - I don't want to find out what that reason 
>> is. 
>> David
>> Chicago
>>
>> On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 6:55:21 AM UTC-5, Howard Hatten wrote:
>>>
>>> I jumped on one of those VO saddles a couple years ago for $50. It 
>>> looked so nice I had to try it. The leather was very stiff.  I was never 
>>> able to get it to break in so I gave it away. 
>>>
>>> Howard
>>> Livonia Mi
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Appendectomy and cycling- how long to heal?

[David Banzer]

Hi Kai,
Glad you're ok. I had an appendectomy last summer and was told the same, 4 
weeks. I think I was biking close to that timeframe. Listen to your body 
though and you'll know when you're ready, could be sooner, could be later. 
Take it easy and go for some walks first. When you're ready to get back on 
a bike, go easy, maybe stick to an easy gear. 
As my brother told me, you now have one less organ to worry about.
David
Chicago

On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 11:19:38 AM UTC-5, Kainalu wrote:
>
> I got out of the hospital last night, doctor says no lifting anything over 
> 5 lbs for the next 4 weeks. Wondering if anyone has any experience and 
> suggestions regarding how long to wait before getting back on my bike.
> Thanks 
> -Kai
> Brooklyn NY 

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[RBW] Re: Appendectomy and cycling- how long to heal?

[Deacon Patrick]

Och! I meant to lead with: Im glad you got the surgery and everything went 
well! Heal well and you'll be in my prayers.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 10:19:38 AM UTC-6, Kainalu wrote:
>
> I got out of the hospital last night, doctor says no lifting anything over 
> 5 lbs for the next 4 weeks. Wondering if anyone has any experience and 
> suggestions regarding how long to wait before getting back on my bike.
> Thanks 
> -Kai
> Brooklyn NY 

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[RBW] Re: Appendectomy and cycling- how long to heal?

[Deacon Patrick]

My approach is to listen to my body, and that healing happens more fully 
through reasonable activity than sedentary. I had an appendectomy in 
September 2014. I just reviewed my pictures and here are the dates for what 
I started doing after (and I had zero complications):
September 19: Surgery
23: began hiking two miles
24: Hiked 6 miles, significant climbing.
28: Biked 20 miles, single speed, significant climbing.

Your milage may vary. And I suspect that timing was very much against 
doctors orders. My wife just told me his orders were "no strenuous activity 
for 4 weeks". I took it easy, and didn't do anything I considered strenuous 
for 4 weeks. Definitions may vary. Grin.

Things I keep in mind:
dull pain: generally good, using something and promotes healing
sharp pain: generally bad. Slow down or stop and assess.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 10:19:38 AM UTC-6, Kainalu wrote:
>
> I got out of the hospital last night, doctor says no lifting anything over 
> 5 lbs for the next 4 weeks. Wondering if anyone has any experience and 
> suggestions regarding how long to wait before getting back on my bike.
> Thanks 
> -Kai
> Brooklyn NY 

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[RBW] Re: Appendectomy and cycling- how long to heal?

[Ron Mc]

be careful - if you're bicycling correctly, you're using your core muscles

On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 11:19:38 AM UTC-5, Kainalu wrote:
>
> I got out of the hospital last night, doctor says no lifting anything over 
> 5 lbs for the next 4 weeks. Wondering if anyone has any experience and 
> suggestions regarding how long to wait before getting back on my bike.
> Thanks 
> -Kai
> Brooklyn NY 

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[RBW] Appendectomy and cycling- how long to heal?

[Kainalu]

I got out of the hospital last night, doctor says no lifting anything over 5 
lbs for the next 4 weeks. Wondering if anyone has any experience and 
suggestions regarding how long to wait before getting back on my bike.
Thanks 
-Kai
Brooklyn NY 

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[RBW] PSA - Good price on a small frame Atlantis

[Surlyprof]

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik/5615426116.html

I thought this was a great price on a well appointed Atlantis on the Bay 
Area CL.  People are usually asking this price for older Rams and 
Hillbornes.  Wild color!  


John

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[RBW] Re: VO heads up

[Philip Kim]

are they discontinuing these hubs? would be a shame as i've heard nothing 
but good things about these hubs.

On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 9:12:48 AM UTC-4, David Banzer wrote:
>
> I agree - I have a B17 clone and had to due Swallow butcher job on it to 
> get it comfy, that after doing the water-soak and ride method to break it 
> in.
> I was tempted by the lo-hi hub, but figured if VO is discontinuing it, 
> there's probably a reason why - I don't want to find out what that reason 
> is. 
> David
> Chicago
>
> On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 6:55:21 AM UTC-5, Howard Hatten wrote:
>>
>> I jumped on one of those VO saddles a couple years ago for $50. It looked 
>> so nice I had to try it. The leather was very stiff.  I was never able to 
>> get it to break in so I gave it away. 
>>
>> Howard
>> Livonia Mi
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Wald Basket??

[Anton Tutter]

Wald baskets are okay, but IMO they are only acceptably stable when 
modified or used on a solid platform, discarding the stock struts they come 
with.  And please, please, don't fasten a Wald basket to a rack with zip 
ties. I know it can work for awhile and many people do it but zip ties 
inevitably snap from repeated stress.  The best way to secure a Wald, IMO, 
is to sandwich the basket and rack between large fender washers or an 
aluminum sheet/plate. I have a largish Wald on my Bike Friday Haul-a-Day. 
It's bolted to the stock tubular steel rack platform. The platform is made 
from aluminum diamond tread plate bolted to a tubular "U" shaped rack. 
I removed the plate and reinstalled it on top of the Wald, essentially 
sandwiching the Wald in place between the rack frame and the platform. It's 
held in place by 4 M6 bolts. It's held up really well this way.

Anton
velolumino.com


 

On Wednesday, June 1, 2016 at 7:33:41 AM UTC-4, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> My daughter wants to buy this basket for her new, small (50) Cheviot.  
> http://www.modernbike.com/wald-135-grocery-basket-silver
>
> Have any of you tried it?  Whaddaya think?
>
> Michael
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Handlebars for members of Seattle $15

[boomer]

Control Tech bars are the only ones left.

On Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 7:06:26 PM UTC-7, boomer wrote:
>
> The cost of shipping handlebars is more than half of a reasonable price 
> for them used.  This is open to Seattle people, unless you really want to 
> pay for the $15 shipping.  Also, finding a box for handlebars isn't easy.
>
> As pictured,
> 1) Grand Raundoneur 45cm, 135mm drop, 25.5 clamp
> 2) same as above
> 3) Model 177, Noodles, 44 cm, 26.0 clamp
> 4) Control Tech Formidable 44cm, 31.  clamp
>
> $15 a piece for local pick up.  Maybe we can work out a system where I 
> leave it with a LBS I use and you Paypal me before or after.  You can pick 
> it up at your leisure. That'll make this less of a hassle for both of us. 
>

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[RBW] Re: VO heads up

[iamkeith]

>  ...but figured if VO is discontinuing it, there's probably a reason why - 
> I don't want to find out what that reason is. 
>

You  had me worried for a moment, but I don't think these items are being 
discontinued -  just trying to generate some sales on slow movers or get 
rid of overstock to make room,  if I read this correctly:

http://velo-orange.blogspot.com/2016/05/special-deals-and-closed-for-memorial.html

If they are/were discontinuing, I think I'd need to consider some of those 
items more closely.  Particularly, those 26" diagonalle rims.  Between my 
family members and I, we've got four 26" road bikes that we want to keep 
running in perpetuity, and rim-brake, polished, road rims are hard to come 
by.   I'm just  trying so hard to reduce my hoarding tendencies:

http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/vo-26-diagonale-rim.html

Just in case though, I DID buy a set of the wing nuts that I'd been 
contemplating for a few years, for use on my non-quick release Quickbeam. 
 I'm hoping I'll use the gears (and thus bike) more, if they're easier to 
swap.   Other QB/SO owners might like them for the same reason, so thanks 
for the heads-up no matter what.  

http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/vo-stainless-wingnuts-mkii.html

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[RBW] Sackville sighting at 1 and Levering.

[Lungimsam]

If it was you fess up!

Black/dark bike? Basket on front with a shopsack type bag and a sackville on 
back.

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[RBW] Riv sighting in the wild!

[Lungimsam]

Yes. You can do any rides on a Rivendell.

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[RBW] Riv sighting in the wild!

['jinxed' via RBW Owners Bunch]

She didn't mention how/when she got the bike, but I got the impression she 
wasn't new to Rivendell. We only rode for a short bit. I believe she was on a 
lunch ride as she mentioned working at the nearby county building we were 
headed toward. I love the "everything" bike mentality. Commuter, lunch bike, 
century...uh huh. 

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[RBW] Riv sighting in the wild!

[Lungimsam]

I saw a betty on a century once. Only betty sighting for me.

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[RBW] Re: VO heads up

[David Banzer]

I agree - I have a B17 clone and had to due Swallow butcher job on it to 
get it comfy, that after doing the water-soak and ride method to break it 
in.
I was tempted by the lo-hi hub, but figured if VO is discontinuing it, 
there's probably a reason why - I don't want to find out what that reason 
is. 
David
Chicago

On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 6:55:21 AM UTC-5, Howard Hatten wrote:
>
> I jumped on one of those VO saddles a couple years ago for $50. It looked 
> so nice I had to try it. The leather was very stiff.  I was never able to 
> get it to break in so I gave it away. 
>
> Howard
> Livonia Mi
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Triple to double crankset - how to do it gearwise?

[Ron Mc]

and it works just as well today as it ever did, with all the versatility of 
a compact double x10

On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 8:06:34 AM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> but this becomes a question of changing a single chainring vs. a whole 
> drivetrain
>
> On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 8:02:47 AM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>>
>> There was a lot to like about HSG back in the day.  Still, with today's 
>> components (>7 speed cassettes) it no longer makes much sense.
>>
>> On 06/02/2016 08:57 AM, Ron Mc wrote:
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Triple to double crankset - how to do it gearwise?

[Ron Mc]

but this becomes a question of changing a single chainring vs. a whole 
drivetrain

On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 8:02:47 AM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> There was a lot to like about HSG back in the day.  Still, with today's 
> components (>7 speed cassettes) it no longer makes much sense.
>
> On 06/02/2016 08:57 AM, Ron Mc wrote:
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Triple to double crankset - how to do it gearwise?

[Steve Palincsar]

There was a lot to like about HSG back in the day.  Still, with today's 
components (>7 speed cassettes) it no longer makes much sense.


On 06/02/2016 08:57 AM, Ron Mc wrote:
There's also nothing complicated about shifting- it's extremely simple 
(and versatile).  Here's how it works on a bluff climb:  Approach on 
the big ring, take the half-step down to maintain spin on the initial 
climb; take full steps as needed to climb the final steeper nob; go 
back up the half-step to relax your spin on the soft grade; use full 
step(s) to get you back to speed.


On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 7:36:07 AM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:

_here's the gear analysis of my cyhclotouriste triple_



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Re: [RBW] Re: Triple to double crankset - how to do it gearwise?

[Ron Mc]

There's also nothing complicated about shifting- it's extremely simple (and 
versatile).  Here's how it works on a bluff climb:  Approach on the big 
ring, take the half-step down to maintain spin on the initial climb; take 
full steps as needed to climb the final steeper nob; go back up the 
half-step to relax your spin on the soft grade; use full step(s) to get you 
back to speed.  

On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 7:36:07 AM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> *here's the gear analysis of my cyhclotouriste triple* 
> 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Triple to double crankset - how to do it gearwise?

[Ron Mc]

*here's the gear analysis of my cyhclotouriste triple* 


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Re: [RBW] Re: Triple to double crankset - how to do it gearwise?

[Ron Mc]

>From my experience, rather than counting teeth, gear steps between 5 to 7 
inches is what makes a drivetrain versatile and delightful.  If you go to a 
double with granny, you'll effectively have a wide 1x7 with some 
cliff-steps over 10 inches.  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Triple to double crankset - how to do it gearwise?

[Michael Hechmer]

I agree with Steve on this.  You already have a set  up which works quite 
well for you.  When setting up gears many riders focus on the high, the 
low, and the # of rings & cogs.  The last is in many ways the least and 
last to choose.  Much more important are the steps between gears and how 
easy it is to get from one gear to the next.

A triple with 10 teeth between gears offers the simplest possible shifting 
pattern,  Moving to the next ring is equivalent to jumping two gears, which 
is often what we want, and if not, a one cog shift  gets us where we want 
to be.  A very wide double, 16 teeth or more, always requires a search for 
the right cog after a front shift.  A 14 tooth different is equivalent to 
shifting three cogs, so you know you will probably want to shift one or two 
cogs to get to the next gear.  I ride a 44/30 on my Ram with a 9 speed 
11/28 and that works Ok for me and allows me to throw the front shifter 
around without worry on VTs rolling hillsides.

If you want a little lower gear you could switch to a 24 without changing 
anything else.  Or if you want a little more at the top, go to a 48/34/26. 
 This gives you a half gear lower in the middle and a half gear higher at 
the top, without creating an overly complicated pattern.  But, it does seem 
like you already have a very practical, smooth set up that works well for 
you.  Don't get your testosterone in a knot over using a "granny" gear and 
don't get carried away with change for the sake of something new & 
different.

On the subject of shifting.  I find that ghost shifting increases more with 
the wideness of the range and the length of the RD cage.  As it gets 
longer, smaller and smaller misalignments get magnified over the length of 
the cage, which triggers the ghost shift.  I run 9 speed friction 
exclusively but always use the shortest RD cage that will work, and replace 
worn parts.  I have no ghost shifting on the dbl. & only a little on my 
triples.

I have also found, contrary to what many smart people say,  good quality, 
ramped & pinned rings work better.  They are not noticeably faster but they 
eliminate almost all mis shifts.  The chain neither struggles to make the 
connection, nor skates across the top of the ring.  Maybe, instead of 
changing your set up, you might get better satisfaction from some hi end 
parts.

Michael

On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 7:02:53 AM UTC-4, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>
>
> On 06/01/2016 11:45 PM, Lungimsam wrote: 
> > PS- Will I have to change my derailers, too? 
>
> I can't see any reason why you would have to. 
>
> > 
> > I have a Microshift triple derailer up front and a SUNXCD in the back 
> > with a long jockey arm on it. 
> > 
> > This may get too expensive for little benefit. 
> > 
>
> You really need to look into the benefit question.  I think you might 
> find a deterioration in your riding experience, rather than a benefit.   
> If your problem with a triple is the sturm und drang of a shift from the 
> middle ring to the granny for worse-than-average hills, you may find 
> that by going to a wide-double you will be exchanging a relatively 
> stress-free 10-tooth chainring shift from large to middle for one 
> dramatically worse, requiring a two, three or even four sprocket upshift 
> in back when you cross over in order to get to the gear you were looking 
> for; and you'll be doing that dramatic shift much more often than you're 
> presently shifting to the granny. 
>
> You need to plot this stuff out.  Look for range, where on the sprocket 
> you'll be spending most of your time (i.e., where your "cruising range") 
> is located, and what happens when you cross over. With a 10-tooth 
> crossover shift you either need to up/down shift one in back to get to 
> the "next closest" gear, or you can just wait whatever insignificant 
> amount of time it takes for you to slow sufficiently for your RPM in the 
> new gear to be within range.  This is fairly trivial, because the RPMs 
> for a 10-tooth chainring shift are fairly close.  With a wide-range 
> double the RPM change is much more dramatic.  Dropping 18-20 teeth (such 
> as going from 44 to 26 or 24) produces such a massive change in RPM as 
> to feel as though you dropped the chain; there's virtually no amount of 
> grade increase in the real world that would make that much of a change 
> feel natural without a multiple sprocket upshift in back to get you to a 
> closer gear. 
>
> That kind of thing can be very hard to live with on a day-to-day basis.   
> The chief benefit of an arrangement like that is to escape from or avoid 
> shifting difficulties with integrated brake/shift levers and indexed 
> front derailleurs.  If you aren't doing that now and don't have those 
> difficulties, it's hard to see what benefit you might gain, period. 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Triple to double crankset - how to do it gearwise?

[Ron Mc]

so think about just replacing your big ring with a 38T or 39T and keeping 
the rest - use a gear chart to decide which is most versatile.  

On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 6:22:52 AM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> I marvel every time I ride my old Raleigh with the half-steps plus granny 
> drivetrain, also a friction wide-7 rear, 12-32  
> My chainrings are 46-42-26.  
> I have two significantly lighter bikes that are both fun to ride, a Campy 
> road double, and Microshift compact double that's effectively a 1x9 with 
> granny in reserve.  
> (as I've said before, this was a custom cassette to duplicate the 
> essential gears from the cyclotouriste triple)
>
> But the Raleigh with the cyclotouriste has the good fixed fenders (Honjo 
> 43mm), and is the cleanest bike to ride in all the rain we're getting this 
> year.  
> The granny is in reserve - that's what they're for, starting off on a 
> stee[ hill, also use it for lifting the chain to drive through standing 
> water.  
> What is so delightful is the function of the half-steps on the wide-7 rear 
> in rolling hills.  Approach any hill on the big ring and having the choice 
> of half-step or full step on separate shifters.  
>
> If you'd want to do this and keep your triple, use a gear chart, if it's 
> all below 40, you'd probably only want 3-teeth diference between your two 
> big rings.  
>

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[RBW] Re: VO heads up

[Howard Hatten]

I jumped on one of those VO saddles a couple years ago for $50. It looked so 
nice I had to try it. The leather was very stiff.  I was never able to get it 
to break in so I gave it away. 

Howard
Livonia Mi

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Re: [RBW] Re: Triple to double crankset - how to do it gearwise?

[Ron Mc]

I marvel every time I ride my old Raleigh with the half-steps plus granny 
drivetrain, also a friction wide-7 rear, 12-32  
My chainrings are 46-42-26.  
I have two significantly lighter bikes that are both fun to ride, a Campy 
road double, and Microshift compact double that's effectively a 1x9 with 
granny in reserve.  
(as I've said before, this was a custom cassette to duplicate the essential 
gears from the cyclotouriste triple)

But the Raleigh with the cyclotouriste has the good fixed fenders (Honjo 
43mm), and is the cleanest bike to ride in all the rain we're getting this 
year.  
The granny is in reserve - that's what they're for, starting off on a stee[ 
hill, also use it for lifting the chain to drive through standing water.  
What is so delightful is the function of the half-steps on the wide-7 rear 
in rolling hills.  Approach any hill on the big ring and having the choice 
of half-step or full step on separate shifters.  

If you'd want to do this and keep your triple, use a gear chart, if it's 
all below 40, you'd probably only want 3-teeth diference between your two 
big rings.  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Getting the message out.

[Peter White]

OK. Let's "forcefully shift the narrative." Why don't those who use cargo
bikes and e-bikes and upright bikes start businesses selling and servicing
them? I don't use a cargo bike myself, and so have no familiarity with
them. I don't know the 'ins and outs" so to speak. So while having been a
low to mid level bike racer in the 1970s I was competent to advise other
racers on bike fit, gearing and other matters, I would be loath to offer
advice on what makes a good e-bike or cargo bike. When I started my
business in the basement of my rented house on a shoestring budget, I stuck
to what I knew. I humbly suggest that others do the same.

PJW

On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 7:45 PM, Evan Baird  wrote:

> Regardless of whether Bobbishness is a movement already, it needs to
> become one if we want to grow the cycling community. The bicycle advocacy
> world is primarily funded by lycra wearing, charity rider types (primarily
> white dudes if we're going by the numbers). This is a huge problem,
> especially since the vast majority of potential transportation cyclists are
> low income people of color, many of which primarily speak languages other
> than English and don't participate in the "bike community'. That means that
> the policies that affect transportation cyclists are frequently being
> decided by people who don't really understand the needs of road users that
> don't fit their idea of "cyclists". I'm not suggesting a bike industry
> conspiracy, but rather a confirmation bias that makes bicycles less
> accessible. Part of making cycling accessible is embracing riders who don't
> fall into the typical bike shop genres, and very probably won't ever step
> foot into one due to the condescending, profit driven mentality of the bike
> industry. As long as bike shops are the primary point of contact for new
> cyclists, we need to forcefully shift the narrative towards a culture that
> embraces cargo bikes, and ebikes and adaptive bikes and upright bikes. It's
> not academic. If we want safe roads, and bicycle facilities there needs to
> be real money to back up our demands. The auto and oil industries spend
> upwards of 50 million dollars a year to push pro driving policies.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Triple to double crankset - how to do it gearwise?

[Steve Palincsar]

On 06/01/2016 11:45 PM, Lungimsam wrote:

PS- Will I have to change my derailers, too?


I can't see any reason why you would have to.



I have a Microshift triple derailer up front and a SUNXCD in the back 
with a long jockey arm on it.


This may get too expensive for little benefit.



You really need to look into the benefit question.  I think you might 
find a deterioration in your riding experience, rather than a benefit.  
If your problem with a triple is the sturm und drang of a shift from the 
middle ring to the granny for worse-than-average hills, you may find 
that by going to a wide-double you will be exchanging a relatively 
stress-free 10-tooth chainring shift from large to middle for one 
dramatically worse, requiring a two, three or even four sprocket upshift 
in back when you cross over in order to get to the gear you were looking 
for; and you'll be doing that dramatic shift much more often than you're 
presently shifting to the granny.


You need to plot this stuff out.  Look for range, where on the sprocket 
you'll be spending most of your time (i.e., where your "cruising range") 
is located, and what happens when you cross over. With a 10-tooth 
crossover shift you either need to up/down shift one in back to get to 
the "next closest" gear, or you can just wait whatever insignificant 
amount of time it takes for you to slow sufficiently for your RPM in the 
new gear to be within range.  This is fairly trivial, because the RPMs 
for a 10-tooth chainring shift are fairly close.  With a wide-range 
double the RPM change is much more dramatic.  Dropping 18-20 teeth (such 
as going from 44 to 26 or 24) produces such a massive change in RPM as 
to feel as though you dropped the chain; there's virtually no amount of 
grade increase in the real world that would make that much of a change 
feel natural without a multiple sprocket upshift in back to get you to a 
closer gear.


That kind of thing can be very hard to live with on a day-to-day basis.  
The chief benefit of an arrangement like that is to escape from or avoid 
shifting difficulties with integrated brake/shift levers and indexed 
front derailleurs.  If you aren't doing that now and don't have those 
difficulties, it's hard to see what benefit you might gain, period.


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[RBW] Question about Gramicci Rockin Sport Pants given MUSA production hiatus

[Garth]

In the past I always found their pants too short in the the rise front and 
back, but that's just me. Maybe those are cut different , if you want to know a 
garments actual dimensions contact the manufacturer and ask for the "garment 
measurements" for a given size(s). These are the actual physical measurements 
of the garment and not a gèneric and relatively meaningless size  chart. They 
can tell you f/r /total rise(including gusset), inseàm, outseam, waist relaxed 
and expanded and maybe even cuff and thigh width.  

 

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[RBW] Triple to double crankset - how to do it gearwise?

[Garth]

Lungimsam, why ?   Is it really an issue to shift across 3 rings ?   Will it 
truly make one bit of difference to your riding experience ?

Sounds to me like your setup is already working for you and as such doesn't 
need fixing.



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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.