Re: [RBW] Re: Suntour Power Thumb Shifters

[lum gim fong]

I first rode road bikes with Sora brifters. Physically hard to shift for me. 
Circa 2007-11.

2012 I got first Rivendell with barends and I loved them at first shift. So 
simple. So fun. Satisfying and physically easy to use.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Ibex shutting down?!?!?!

[Eric Norris]

Three pairs of wool bib shorts and a nice wool top for layering for me … Sad to 
see them go as well.

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
@CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)

> On Jan 28, 2018, at 3:00 PM, lum gim fong  wrote:
> 
> Looks like Ibex is closed now.
> Too bad. Their cycling stuff was so comfy.
> I snagged a hat though at the end.
> 
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Re: [RBW] Rambouillet vs. Roadeo?

[Toshi Takeuchi]

I set up my Ram 650b/front rack/fenders and used it as a long distance
Randonneur bike, and it worked great for that function.  I set up the
Roadeo with no racks or fenders as a go fast club rider and supported
rides.  The ride is very similar, but I did notice that the Roadeo seems
slightly more responsive to handlebar input compared to the Ram.

--The other point I noticed is that the top tube is shorter.  I set up the
cockpit similarly with the Ram vs Roadeo (I didn't use a longer stem with a
shorter top tube).  With the slightly shorter top tube, it makes the drops
more comfortable on the Roadeo because the bars are closer.  I think the
drops on the Roadeo are my favorite position on the bike, while I probably
rode more on the hoods of the Ram or at the curves at the top of the bar.

Toshi

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[RBW] Re: Backpedal Braking

[Deacon Patrick]

Tom, They’re Shimano Tiagra brake levers. Aye, I’ve ridden MTB levers on the 
original Albatross my Hunqapillar came with, they wouldn’t work in the curves 
on the new Moustache bars. Why do you ask?

With abandon,
Patrick

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Re: [RBW] Re: Have a Sub 20lb Roadeo?

[Christopher Murray]

>From the Rodeo description page: 

“Threaded gives you more bar-height potential (which translates to comfort, for 
most people) but weighs about 8 ounces more. It's probably the way to go if 
you're a solo rider wanting a light road bike with maximum comfort and classic 
styling. If you'll likely run your bars at or above saddle level, this is 
definitely the way to go from a functional and aesthetic perspective.”

It is not clear if that’s a complete bike or frame and fork. 

Chris

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[RBW] Re: FS: Sylvan Touring "Next" Pedals - MKS -

[Birdman]

They have the same platform length as the old school Sylvan Touring pedals. The 
bearings are noticeably smoother and won’t require the regular re-packing that 
my old rat cage pedals needed to stay creak-free. The polished finish is also 
very nice. Basically, they fixed everything about the originals that bugged me 
years back. Unfortunately, I’ve developed some foot issues and need more 
support, otherwise I’d be rocking those gorgeous things on all of my bicycles. 

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[RBW] Re: Backpedal Braking

[tc]

Patrick, can def. see the weight shift - but I guess hard to tell how much 
more than you'd normally shift while descending that pitch on any bike.  
Thanks for sharing your experiments so we can all learn from them!

Question:  Which road brake lever are you using?  Have you ever tried an 
MTB-type lever? (knowing it'd require a 23.8 clamp).

Tom

>

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Re: [RBW] Anaerobic Power, Aerobic Effort

[Patrick Moore]

I'd like to know more about this. I know that the "flywheel" idea has been
around for, probably, a century and more, and so many people claim that
climbing is faster with a fixed drivetrain in a given gear than in the same
gear with a freewheel.

I can't say that my '03 errand Riv fixie (70") feels particularly fast up
hills; my 76" gofast does, but it's quite a bit lighter -- 8 lb lighter, I
think.

It has been too long since I rode a bike with similar gear as well as
similar tires, weight, setup, and so on, to my fixies to recall if they
climbed as well as fixed; the last, the Ram, had a similar gear, but it was
a rather different bike, with relatively heavy 700C wheels and weighing
more than my fixies, so it's hard to compare them. At any rate, I even then
tended to climb in highish gears; 60" was low unless I was very tired or
had a vile headwind.

Others, chime in -- but with precise descriptions of person experience, if
not mathematical evidence.

I did notice that in some of my regular, rolling hills,
many-stop-signs/traffic-lights routes, my speed on the gofast was
disappointingly similar to that on, say, the 14-15-lb heavier Fargo, which
I put down to coasting speeds and slower acceleration after the many stops
in the highish (for me) 75-6" gear. Or perhaps I'm just slow on every bike?

Patrick Moore, who misses those rolling hills rides in nearby Rio Rancho,
NM, where his mother used to live -- must get out there more!

Patrick Moore, who lives, and now rides too exclusively, in the RG valley
floor, where, north-to-south, it's flat, flat, flat, with only sand and
winds to create manly obstacles.

On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 5:01 PM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:

> Does your geared bike have a matching gear to a fixed? If so, the flywheel
> effect should be notacible, though there are multiple levels of getting
> more and more scientific to compare the two efforts. But if you ride them
> both on the same day, two days in a row, alternating which one is first,
> then compare times and percieved effort level, the result would be
> interesting.
>
> My own macro observations are that my average speed is nearly identicle to
> freewheel, but my climbing speed is increased while my descent speed has
> decreased. Sincle climbing speed increased immediately on switching to
> fixed gear, with a similar gear to my freewheel ss, that points to the
> flywheel effect. Like you though, the physics of it baffle me, but I don’t
> really care. The difference it makes for my brain when riding is enormous.
> Grin.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Have a Sub 20lb Roadeo?

[ted]

Suppose so, probly the only proper direct comparison would be threadless to 
threaded rodeo frame-fork-headset-stem-bars with buyers spec stem length, bar 
height (don't forget any spacers) and bars. 
I suspect the weight savings for threadless would be closer to a third of a lb 
than a half. I wouldn't be surprised if it was less than a third of a lb.
Furthermore, since I have an old quil bar and stem set that weighs about an oz 
more than a comparable set of threadless stuff you can buy new today, I think 
the weight savings is because of what's in production today and not the result 
of any inherent advantage of the threadless design.

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Re: [RBW] Anaerobic Power, Aerobic Effort

[Deacon Patrick]

Does your geared bike have a matching gear to a fixed? If so, the flywheel 
effect should be notacible, though there are multiple levels of getting more 
and more scientific to compare the two efforts. But if you ride them both on 
the same day, two days in a row, alternating which one is first, then compare 
times and percieved effort level, the result would be interesting.

My own macro observations are that my average speed is nearly identicle to 
freewheel, but my climbing speed is increased while my descent speed has 
decreased. Sincle climbing speed increased immediately on switching to fixed 
gear, with a similar gear to my freewheel ss, that points to the flywheel 
effect. Like you though, the physics of it baffle me, but I don’t really care. 
The difference it makes for my brain when riding is enormous. Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

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Re: [RBW] Re: Ibex shutting down?!?!?!

[Shawn Granton]

Keep watch on Sierra Trading Post. They've had plenty of Ibex closeouts in
the past (and have a handful right now), and I'm guessing when Ibex
liquidates their remaining stock, they may have more.

No one actually looks at email signatures anymore, but here goes nothing:
http://urbanadventureleague.wordpress.com/
http://societyofthreespeeds.wordpress.com/
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Un-electronic mail goes here: P O Box 14185, Portland OR 97293-0185



On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 3:00 PM, lum gim fong  wrote:

> Looks like Ibex is closed now.
> Too bad. Their cycling stuff was so comfy.
> I snagged a hat though at the end.
>
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[RBW] Re: FS: Sylvan Touring "Next" Pedals - MKS -

[Bin Chen]

Curious to hear what your feedback was on them? They're relatively new so 
not a lot of info about them.

On Sunday, January 28, 2018 at 11:07:10 AM UTC-8, Birdman wrote:
>
> Hi all, 
>
> I've got a great pair of MKS Sylvan Touring Next Pedals for sale.  These 
> are an upgraded version of the classic MKS touring rat trap pedals, but 
> with super smooth sealed cartridge bearings.  $50 shipped (Paypal no 
> fees).  
>
> Pics here: https://www.instagram.com/isaacenloe/
>
> Thanks,
>
> Isaac
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Suntour Power Thumb Shifters

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Yes to all this. Every now and then, threads over on iBob touch on this 
idea in some way; I am guilty of occasionally steering  threads about discs 
in this direction. I don't believe it is only a matter of "what you grew up 
with" or being a Luddite, or a "retrogrouch;" there is that line we cross, 
with all technologies. Ivan Illich defines this line in "Two Watersheds", 
the first chapter in his book, *Tools For Conviviality*. It's available 
free online 
,
 
and a useful way of helping to frame the existential issue of the 
relationship between humans and technologies. As humans, we don't think 
much about consequences when something "helps" us do something faster or 
easier, and we can get other people to give us money for it. Illich, by the 
way, was a big fan of bicycles. I won't quote any of that (though I have on 
iBob over the years), more fun to find it on your own.

More good stuff, from other angles: Joseph Tainter's *The Collapse of 
Complex Societies*, written in the late 1980s. More recently, there is 
*Shrinking 
the Technosphere: Getting a Grip on Technologies that Limit our Autonomy, 
Self-Sufficiency and Freedom*, by Dmitri Orlov. 

In terms of The Body and the Bike—the Synergistic Combination, I once wrote 
a short essay, Bicycle Brains 
,
 
that relates to this in a way. 

I enjoy ruminating on this line of thought, and if we ever hope to sort out 
some of the mess we're in, I think some of the answers will be found by 
looking in this direction. And after chewing on it all for a while, marking 
your own 50-yard line and digging in is not an inconsequential act.

On Sunday, January 28, 2018 at 3:12:52 PM UTC-5, Grant @ Rivendell wrote:
>
>   
>
> Modern shifters-STI, trigger shifters, all that--really have been 
> perfected. They work perfectly, and from that point of view there's no 
> reason NOT to use them. It's just hard to argue why not...  For me it comes 
> down to a mix of a philosophical approach that .. is hard to put into words 
> without sounding like the unabomber, but it has to do with saying no to 
> ultimate convenience in the interest of integrating your brain and finger 
> mechanics into the working of a simple compound machine composed of a wheel 
> (the cable drum of the shifter) and a lever, the shifter itself. It also 
> has to do with resisting the urge for maximizing overkill in recreational 
> activities, and not accepting that it's stubbornness or stupidity to do 
> that (to resist).
>
> We all know where the tide is going with everything, and I'd vote for more 
> than half of it, I'm sure, but there has to be a line. This reminds me 
> right now, of when I hired on at Bstone in December '84 and thought the 
> tag-line for the bikes was sappy or hokey or stupid. It was "The Body and 
> the Bike."  Looking at bikes and bodies now, I think that's not so stupid 
> anymore. Manual shifting--and maybe even traditional indexing is part of 
> that, in view of what's right around the corner of the pike--is like 
> digging in your heels at the 50-yard line and not letting your role in 
> riding the bike diminish as much as the component makers and the desperate 
> bike industry wants it to be diminished. They can and are selling 
> diminishment as advancement, but that's funky because it assumes there's no 
> pleasure in "the synergistic combination." It's FUN to shift, it's FUN to 
> miss a shift now and then, to be a flubby human, and then to correct it on 
> the retry. Every time your shift misses or isn't perfect, it's a reminder 
> that you're a fallible human operating a simple machine, and of course you 
> want your shifts to take all the time, but nobody dies if they don't.
> The Silver2 shifters will be pretty good. Good enough! I just thought of 
> something to wonder about. Hm. OK!
>
> On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 11:28 AM, Ed Fausto  > wrote:
>
>> Thanks Garth, I appreciate the help.
>> Now I need to find a pair to try on my Cheviot :-)
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 7:38 PM, Garth  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Any of them Ed !
>>>  Friction does not limit or is limited by the number of cogs, given the 
>>> intended cable pull ratio. I have used mine from 5-9 speeds, easy breezy. 
>>> They have a huge range.
>>>
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[RBW] FS - Bay Area Weehoo (Pickup Only)

[J Imler]

My son and I have had a blast on this Weehoo 
.
 
Built to last. This is an earlier model and I'd argue the seat post 
attachment is superior (no lean) to the current models. I've also modified 
to include a kickstand, larger rear cog for easier kid pedaling, Wald 
basket for goodies, wire guard for loaded bike camping, reflective strips, 
and easy grab water bottle holder. My kid never complained while riding 
this, except if we forgot his sunglasses. If you're adventurous, you can 
attach a typical trailer to the Weehoo and haul the neighbor kid too! 

Best for kids from 2- 5 years old, maybe 6 IMO.

$100.00 pickup only
Pleasant Hill, CA (Close to RBW)

Pics 
here: 
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1x6DYRVRqth5CFVimgZGixpYCmF9UmVse?usp=sharing

Note: If interested I can add a front rack that works perfectly over the 
Weehoo wheel for serious loaded hauling. Add $40.00.

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[RBW] Re: Ibex shutting down?!?!?!

[lum gim fong]

Looks like Ibex is closed now.
Too bad. Their cycling stuff was so comfy.
I snagged a hat though at the end.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Suntour Power Thumb Shifters

[Patrick Moore]

I wholeheartedly agree with this. Make things too perfect and they become,
in my opinion and experience, boring, or at least less interesting than a
more primitive technology that requires compensation in the form of greater
skill and attention -- rather like making bread by hand instead of using a
bread machine. When things are packaged and too easy, you need additives to
make them interesting -- go fastest, win the race, split times, what have
you. Primitive shifting perfectly complements a "just ride" value set,* and
the opposite gives you, or can and did give you, that silly woman who wrote
soul searchingly about how she had to trick herself into overcoming the
malaise caused by too much "training" that made her hate riding.

Principles are black and white and set in stone, but their applications
vary indefinitely, as much as do individuals. But I find -- hell, forget
about those damned shifty geary coasty things; I find riding fixed -- and
not merely ss -- the most fun, most interesting, and most rewarding sort of
riding, *precisely because *it is primitive and "less". It is the *less* that
makes it *interesting*. If I had just one bike, it would be a fixed gear;
as it is, I have 4, and 3 are fixed.

Presently my dirt road bike (we have 3" sand to be negotiated) has multiple
gears; 10 mismatched (14-28, cobbled from scavenged cassettes, 8sp, 9sp,
and 10 sp) shifted by Bar Cons with a 740n low leverage ratio (ie, little
lever movement for a lot of derailleur movement) rd. And I like it. The
right Bar Con moves less than 90* to sweep the entire cassette. This
requires care and learning, and I still have to trim from time to time, but
so what?

Those of you who like adventure novels, try the Patrick O'Brian Jack Aubrey
series. One of the fascinating elements is the realistic depiction of
full-rigged-sailing-ship technology at its high point in the late 18th and
early 19th centuries, and from reviews I've read, O'Brian gets it all
right. But remarkable, fully mature and refined materials, forms, and
usages; large sailing ships could stay at sea longer than any modern
vessels except perhaps nuclear-fuel powered ones. Of course, this required
huge numbers of men doing hard and dangerous manual labor -- out of a
yardarm at night in a gale in freezing rain -- but the technology, and the
corresponding skills, were undeniably perfect in a way that nothing was
before or has been since.

* There is a recent Dave Moulton blog that in its own way perfectly
exemplified "just ride". Dave is 83 and rides a modern bike; but he does it
for fun at his own, and not somebody else's -- or the *zeitgeist's* or the
marketers' or the bike mags'-- pace.


On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 1:12 PM, Grant Petersen  wrote:

> [...]
>


> Modern shifters-STI, trigger shifters, all that--really have been
> perfected. They work perfectly, and from that point of view there's no
> reason NOT to use them. It's just hard to argue why not...  For me it comes
> down to a mix of a philosophical approach that .. is hard to put into words
> without sounding like the unabomber, but it has to do with saying no to
> ultimate convenience in the interest of integrating your brain and finger
> mechanics into the working of a simple compound machine composed of a wheel
> (the cable drum of the shifter) and a lever, the shifter itself. It also
> has to do with resisting the urge for maximizing overkill in recreational
> activities, and not accepting that it's stubbornness or stupidity to do
> that (to resist).
>
> We all know where the tide is going with everything, and I'd vote for more
> than half of it, I'm sure, but there has to be a line. This reminds me
> right now, of when I hired on at Bstone in December '84 and thought the
> tag-line for the bikes was sappy or hokey or stupid. It was "The Body and
> the Bike —the Synergistic Combination."  Looking at bikes and bodies now, I
> think that's not so stupid anymore. Manual shifting--and maybe even
> traditional indexing is part of that, in view of what's right around the
> corner of the pike--is like digging in your heels at the 50-yard line and
> not letting your role in riding the bike diminish as much as the component
> makers and the desperate bike industry wants it to be diminished. They can
> and are selling diminishment as advancement, but that's funky because it
> assumes there's no pleasure in "the synergistic combination." It's FUN to
> shift, it's FUN to miss a shift now and then, to be a flubby human, and
> then to correct it on the retry. Every time your shift misses or isn't
> perfect, it's a reminder that you're a fallible human operating a simple
> machine, and of course you want your shifts to take all the time, but
> nobody dies if they don't.The Silver2 shifters will be pretty good.
> Good enough! I just thought of something to wonder about. Hm. OK!
>

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[RBW] Fixed gears and gaps between gears

[Deacon Patrick]

Fascinating, Patrick. My experience was exactly the opposite. For most of the 
last year, before stripping it and sending it off for horizontal dropouts, I 
rode my 9-speed Hunqapillar as a 3 speed, using only my 75”, 50”, 37” gears. On 
long decents or steep trails I would add my top and bottom gears now and then, 
for an effective five speed. (87”, 30”).

With abandon,
Patrick

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[RBW] Re: FS: Sylvan Touring "Next" Pedals - MKS -

[Birdman]

SOLD - thanks yall

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Re: [RBW] Re: Have a Sub 20lb Roadeo?

[JohnS]

Threadless head sets also contribute to the weight savings, no lock nuts 
nor lock ring. 

JohnS


On Sunday, January 28, 2018 at 2:28:19 AM UTC-5, lum gim fong wrote:
>
> Stems: 
> 1. Nitto Technomic Deluxe 6cm/22.2/26.0/190-287g 
> 2. Nitto Technomic Deluxe 7cm/225/25.4/22.2-328g 
> 3. Nitto Pearl 8cm/22.2/26.0- 296g 
> 4. Nitto Pearl 8cm/22.2/25.4- 299g 
>
> Handlebars: 
> 1. Nitto 41cm (“410”) Model 177 Noodle-322g 
> 2. Nitto 40cm (“400”) M151F bar- 339g 
> 3. Nitto 52cm Aluminum Heat Treated Bosco Bar-384g

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[RBW] Fixed gears and gaps between gears

[Patrick Moore]

More musings on riding fixed: it's funny; riding in very much varying
conditions in a single gear, especially one which doesn't let you coast,
ought to make you much more tolerant of wide gaps between the gears, but
that hasn't been my experience. I still find even 7-8 gi gaps in the middle
of the range (60 to 75 gi) very annoying, and willing give up lows and
highs to get very close mid range ratios. My Matthews, presently my only
bike with a freewheel and multiple gears, has a range of 86 to 30 across 2
rings and 10 cogs, and 89 to 44 on the outer (it's a wide range double,
42/28 and 14-28). I tend to do most of my riding, even when climbing, in
the middle 6 cogs, 73 to 56 gi / 17-22 t. Its as if I don't mind using one
gear for a lot of different things, but when I do shift, it's very annoying
not to get just the right alternate gear. On the Matthews, the series of
most used gears goes:

77-73-69-65-62-56-52. (The gear inches got bumped up 2 or 3 gi when
swapping the F Freds for Big Ones.)

I also notice that my cadence has slowed down a great deal in the last 15
years, again despite chasing the pedals on downhills while riding fixed

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Re: [RBW] Anaerobic Power, Aerobic Effort

[Patrick Moore]

You develop both the physical and psychological ability to stand and torque
up long hills at low rpm; it took me a few years to get comfortabel with
this.

Much of it is simply resetting your mind; you have to hold back and pace
yourself, but I have surprised myself how relatively easy it is to climb 5
or more mile-long hills (well, 1 hill; Tramway) in a 70" gear and even a
76" gear if you just get used to standing for a few miles at a time.

Headwinds are another thing that requires re-setting your mental
calculator; you can't shift down and keep cadence; you have to slow way
down and just be patient. That took me even longer.

FWIW, no change of diet required in my case; I stuck to my dietary
principle of plenty of starch and fat (beer and potato chips). Just
kidding, I don't care for potato chips. But my metabolism is such that I
can go for a 30 mile ride at 2 pm after nothing but 2 pints of sweet milky
tea from 7 am, and perhaps a bit of bread and butter, and do well enough,
though I do need to eat quickly when I get back.

I wonder if there is really a flywheel effect. On one hand, I tend to pedal
squares for a half mile or so when going back to a freewheel bike OTOH, I
don't feel the wheel pulling the bottom run of chain. Perhaps it's another
matter of learning or habituation: after having your feet jerked a few
times when you try to coast, you learn to, without thinking about it, keep
your cadence ahead of the rear wheel. I rather think that this is it.

Patrick Moore

On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 12:02 PM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:

> In which we explore how one gear is sustainable for long climbs and rides
> even on fairly steep grades of 8-12%.
> https://thegrid.ai/withabandon/anaerobic-power-aerobic-effort
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> www.CredoFamily.org
> www.MindYourHeadCoop.org
>
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[RBW] Re: Crankypants & Thoughtful Responses

[John Rinker]

Thanks Jim for reminding us how civility, diversity and discourse really 
must walk (or ride) together if we are all to move forward. Here's a fine 
post I came across a few weeks back on 'How not to be offended 
'.

Cheers, John
On Saturday, January 6, 2018 at 8:52:37 AM UTC-8, Cyclofiend Jim wrote:
>
> The tenets of this group have not changed. It's right there in the top 
> line - "...a respectful, supportive and polite tone in all posts."
>
> I never expected that everyone would agree with everyone else in every 
> post. The world would truly be a much more boring place if that were the 
> case. 
>
> But excessive umbrage and accusations and generally going toe-to-toe in 
> recent threads which should have been innocuous makes me a bit concerned. 
> Hopefully, this was just an early example of the February crankiness that 
> pops up on this list when folks have not gotten out to ride enough. 
>
> There are a few things in those escalating threads which catch my 
> attention. 
>
> One is a statement which described a post as hastily made.  There's not a 
> thing so time-dependent on this group that anyone needs to shoehorn an 
> immediate response between the business of the day. If someone insults you, 
> let it stand. The previous conversational contributions made to this group 
> present enough of a body of evidence as to whether any insult is valid or 
> ludicrous. We all have a sense of the personalities behind the comments, 
> especially if we've been involved in this list for any length of time. The 
> need to respond immediately does not exist here. There are better venues 
> for that. If you find yourself hammering out (or tapping out) (or dictating 
> to a transcription bot) a quick response, maybe you don't need to post it. 
>
> Because words are tough. 
>
> We see it play out time and time again. All we get are the words. No body 
> language or tone. No micro musculature movement on the face to defuse or 
> contextualize the words. An innocuous post taken the wrong way. Something 
> triggers someone and suddenly the conversation is in a death spiral towards 
> "So's yer old man!"
>
> I think we're better than that.
>
> Because we're human, that isn't always the case. 
>
> So, let's give one another the opportunity to be wrong, hold an opinion we 
> don't agree with, miss the point entirely or explore an idea clumsily. If 
> you are the smartest person in the room, let the rest of us catch up 
> occasionally. Pretend it's a group ride where no one gets dropped.
>
> There were also a few things in the threads which heartened me.  
>
> Group members stepped in to diffuse the situation, putting themselves in 
> the line of fire to let everyone sit back down and enjoy the music. Thank 
> you. 
>
> That said, what now?
>
> Will we continue to get teased by the popular social venues into being the 
> first responder? Having an answer rather than considering a thoughtful 
> response? Will this group become a value-added buy/sell/trade sheet? Will 
> we continue to find commonality or seek to contrast only our differences? 
> Will Timmy hang on to the cracking tree branch over the chasm while Lassie 
> finds the ranger? Wait. Sorry. Ignore that last line.
>
> My point, as always, is that the quality of this group is up to us. Let's 
> move forward with a commitment to that idea.
>
> Thanks to everyone for their ongoing contributions to this group. 
>
> - Jim
>
> Jim Edgar / rbw group admin
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Suntour Power Thumb Shifters

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Glad your little guy likes it--great piece of gear for kids. Nice overall 
setup, too.
oo

On Saturday, January 27, 2018 at 10:44:38 PM UTC-5, J Imler wrote:
>
> Here's a link to my setup - 
> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Otd4vV1utzGCgHK2NVYn_M8QFwlkHUIz?usp=sharing
>  
> Shout out to Mark in Beacon for the Burley trailer recommendation. My 
> little boy is digging it.
>
> Excuse my after dinner gut in pic 3. I'm enjoying the shifter and shifter 
> placement. This particular placement makes the cable and housing do a curly 
> q type of thing but works no problem. My bike has a 7 speed freewheel.
>
> On Saturday, January 27, 2018 at 5:10:04 PM UTC-8, ed wrote:
>>
>> All this discussion on Suntour thumb shifters makes me want to purchase a 
>> pair while waiting for the Silver 2's
>>
>> Which particular Suntour thumb shifter can be used for 8 speed cogs?
>> Can this be installed inside the handlebar?
>>
>> Thanks guys for any help.
>> Ed
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 8:50 AM, Belopsky  wrote:
>>
>>> Not to crash the party but I have a set of those Suntour I want to sell. 
>>> 22.2mm clamp. Can't use them on my bars that I thought were 22.2 but theyre 
>>> 23.8 so...
>>>
>>> Mine are these: 
>>> http://velobase.com/CompImages/Shifter/0203796F-1215-46BA-8B1A-C04CF4702723.jpeg
>>>
>>> $40 shipped
>>>
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>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Suntour Power Thumb Shifters

[Grant Petersen]

The Silver2 shifters--many of you know this--are anatomically nearly
identical to the SunTours from '82. We tried to improve where we could, but
there wasn't much opportunity. The clamp is more versatile, fits more
diameters. The rotation method no longer used the holes, but goes with
florets on the perimeter. Sorry about the language here, don't feel like
you should understand that, but basically it uses the same rotation system
as SunRace thumbies. The one we designed (the clamp) was, I think, better
still, but the front-runner is still good. We had free run of the lever and
submitted the clamp, but Dia-Compe has its own ideas for the clamp, and
it's still plenty good, and improvement over the early SunTours.

I expect to see them in mid to late March. We've already mounted the lever
(just a left) and tested its ergo and all, and it's fine. The thing is,
when it comes out, we expect a certain amount of monday morning QB-ing, and
that'll be fine, part of the fun, but the lever is really quite good as it
is, and without the emotional backing of our customers in general and this
group especially, things like this don't happen.

Modern shifters-STI, trigger shifters, all that--really have been
perfected. They work perfectly, and from that point of view there's no
reason NOT to use them. It's just hard to argue why not...  For me it comes
down to a mix of a philosophical approach that .. is hard to put into words
without sounding like the unabomber, but it has to do with saying no to
ultimate convenience in the interest of integrating your brain and finger
mechanics into the working of a simple compound machine composed of a wheel
(the cable drum of the shifter) and a lever, the shifter itself. It also
has to do with resisting the urge for maximizing overkill in recreational
activities, and not accepting that it's stubbornness or stupidity to do
that (to resist).

We all know where the tide is going with everything, and I'd vote for more
than half of it, I'm sure, but there has to be a line. This reminds me
right now, of when I hired on at Bstone in December '84 and thought the
tag-line for the bikes was sappy or hokey or stupid. It was "The Body and
the Bike —the Synergistic Combination."  Looking at bikes and bodies now, I
think that's not so stupid anymore. Manual shifting--and maybe even
traditional indexing is part of that, in view of what's right around the
corner of the pike--is like digging in your heels at the 50-yard line and
not letting your role in riding the bike diminish as much as the component
makers and the desperate bike industry wants it to be diminished. They can
and are selling diminishment as advancement, but that's funky because it
assumes there's no pleasure in "the synergistic combination." It's FUN to
shift, it's FUN to miss a shift now and then, to be a flubby human, and
then to correct it on the retry. Every time your shift misses or isn't
perfect, it's a reminder that you're a fallible human operating a simple
machine, and of course you want your shifts to take all the time, but
nobody dies if they don't.The Silver2 shifters will be pretty good.
Good enough! I just thought of something to wonder about. Hm. OK!

On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 11:28 AM, Ed Fausto  wrote:

> Thanks Garth, I appreciate the help.
> Now I need to find a pair to try on my Cheviot :-)
>
> On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 7:38 PM, Garth  wrote:
>
>> Any of them Ed !
>>  Friction does not limit or is limited by the number of cogs, given the
>> intended cable pull ratio. I have used mine from 5-9 speeds, easy breezy.
>> They have a huge range.
>>
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[RBW] FS: Sackville, Velocity, and Old Parts Bin (some free local pickup)

[Bob B]

PM me if interested. Local pickup in NYC/Brooklyn can be arranged. 
Pictures: https://photos.app.goo.gl/J3NHA6WqEVV5SvpK2

*Sackville Bar Tube Olive:* New condition. Always kinda wanted one and when 
Riv announced it was discontinued I jumped on it, but then realized it 
doesn't really work if you're already using a basket and a shop sack like 
me (no longer available from Riv). I added some paracord pulls on the 
zippers to make them easier to grab. $60 shipped

*Velocity Atlas front wheel:* 700c, 36 spoke, velocity hub, dt champion 
spokes. built by velocity and bought from Riv. Includes velox rim tape and 
orig skewer. 500 miles, perfect shape. $100 local pickup in NYC/Brooklyn. I 
can ship but really dont want to and it'd be extra.


*Old Parts Bin:*
*If you want over $60-worth from this stuff, take 20% off.*

*Brakes (pair), Bridgestone Self-centering:* includes hardware, nutted, In 
good shape. $30 shipped

*Brakes, Shimano BR-R451 Tiagra:* dirt and scratches but work fine. 
recessed nut. I stretched the reach on these at one point by filing out the 
channels by a couple of mm, as shown.

*Handlebars, Sakae CT:* 26.0mm. About 40mm wide. from '87 Bstone T700. $20 
pickup, $25 shipped

*Handlebars, no brand Taiwan swept back:* 25.4mm. About 52mm wide, a little 
rise. Free pickup, $20 shipped

*Stem, MTB with integrated cable hanger:* 25.4 clamp from bstone cb-zip, 
Free pickup, $8 shipped

*Stem, no brand:* Free pickup, $8 shipped

*Levers, Dia Compe Road:* $10 pickup, $15 shipped

*Levers, Dia compe XCE mtb short stop:* Free pickup, $8 shipped

*Shifters, 7spd Shimano Light action:* index/friction, Free pickup, $6 
shipped or $2 with levers (above)

*Pedals, Sakae:* $10 pickup, $15 shipped

*Seatpost, Kalloy Uno:* New condition. 26.4mm $15 pickup, $18 shipped

*Cassette, Sunrace 7sp hyperglide:* 12–24t, used, includes cassette spacer. 
Free pickup, $8 shipped


Thanks,

Bob B.
Brooklyn, NY

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[RBW] FS Winter cycling wear

[Melanie Yolles]

Hi gang,

I'm not much of a cold weather cyclist any longer, so I hope someone else
will get some use out of these items. Each is $25 plus shipping.
https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0YG4TcsmGY6ydl

   - Smartwool 1/4 zip women's merino sweater gray (no rear pocket)
   - Smartwool 1/4 zip women's merino sweater turquoise (no rear pocket)
   - Wooly Warm men's small vest (from Riv)
   - Road Holland women's large heavy-weight bike jersey
   - Portland/Oregon Cycle Wear men's medium merino bike jersey (70%
   merino, 30% acrylic)

And some shoes (not winter)

   - Chrome Kursk men's size 7 bike shoes
   - Five Ten women's size 9 Guide Tennie shoes (run small)

Thanks for looking!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Suntour Power Thumb Shifters

[Ed Fausto]

Thanks Garth, I appreciate the help.
Now I need to find a pair to try on my Cheviot :-)

On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 7:38 PM, Garth  wrote:

> Any of them Ed !
>  Friction does not limit or is limited by the number of cogs, given the
> intended cable pull ratio. I have used mine from 5-9 speeds, easy breezy.
> They have a huge range.
>
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[RBW] Ring around my tech deluxes problem...

[lum gim fong]

I noticed a ring around my both of my tech deluxe stems (recent purchases, 
two different vendors) about an inch down from the corner.
Is this part of the process of buffing? I have had many Nitto stems over 
the years and only seen this in the last two purchases. Was wondering what 
it is from.

No big deal. Can cover with a bell clamp. Thanks for any info.

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[RBW] Re: FS: Sylvan Touring "Next" Pedals - MKS -

[Birdman]

Oh, and they have a couple of road rash scrapes, but less than 50 miles on 
them.  

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[RBW] FS: Sylvan Touring "Next" Pedals - MKS -

[Birdman]

Hi all, 

I've got a great pair of MKS Sylvan Touring Next Pedals for sale.  These 
are an upgraded version of the classic MKS touring rat trap pedals, but 
with super smooth sealed cartridge bearings.  $50 shipped (Paypal no 
fees).  

Pics here: https://www.instagram.com/isaacenloe/

Thanks,

Isaac

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[RBW] Anaerobic Power, Aerobic Effort

[Deacon Patrick]

In which we explore how one gear is sustainable for long climbs and rides even 
on fairly steep grades of 8-12%.
https://thegrid.ai/withabandon/anaerobic-power-aerobic-effort

With abandon,
Patrick

www.CredoFamily.org
www.MindYourHeadCoop.org

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Cheviot Meets Schwinn Le Tour

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Thanks, Ann. Me too!

On Sunday, January 28, 2018 at 9:36:17 AM UTC-5, Ann L wrote:
>
>
> Beautiful bike!  I'm glad it worked out for your friend.
>

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Cheviot Meets Schwinn Le Tour

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Yup. Sometimes referred to as Suckerfish Falls, just above the old hat 
factory in what is now known as Madame Brett Park. It's probably half a 
mile from where the creek empties into the Hudson River, just beyond 
Denning's Point.

On Sunday, January 28, 2018 at 8:36:57 AM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> Fishkill Creek?
>
>
>

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[RBW] WTB: Meisha’s Cork Grips Old Shape

[Bob B]

I keep building and rebuilding bikes and this is just my ideal grip. Already 
picked up one pair through the group. Any one of you guys who aren’t fans 
willing to part with a spare pair?

If so, private message me. Thank you!

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Cheviot Meets Schwinn Le Tour

['Ann L' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Beautiful bike!  I'm glad it worked out for your friend.

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Cheviot Meets Schwinn Le Tour

[Steve Palincsar]

Fishkill Creek?


On 01/28/2018 08:16 AM, 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:
In late October of last year there was a PSA about a Cheviot on the 
Boston craigslist. Turned out to be Harris Cyclery, I called to make 
sure it was still available, then my friend called and bought it. A 
few days later, she made the 3+ hour drive to pick it up. It's always 
a bit of a crap shoot buying a bike before seeing it and riding it in 
person, especially when recommending a friend do so. But because it 
was a Rivendell, and being sold by a Riv dealer, I was much more 
confident. Still, I was prepared to help with picking out and 
installing a new seat, handlebars, pedals to make it work. As it turns 
out, after a few rides this past fall, she reported that the bike was 
perfect for her as equipped (although yesterday she discovered that 
her  Ibex wool gloves, despite the rubber on the palms, were slippery 
on the shellacked cork grips, so she rode in her red suede dress gloves).


At 5'6", she is on the short side of the saddle heights listed for the 
55cm size, but it fits her great. I got a chance to try it out 
yesterday, our first ride together in 2018. Midway through a short 
loop ride, I changed our saddle heights, and she finished up on my Le 
Tour mixte while I rode the Cheviot. I'm 5'10", and if I pushed back 
the saddle a bit from her position and raised the bars a bit, I think 
I could pretty much replicate my position on the Le Tour--though if I 
were buying one for myself, I would get the 59.


It's a super smooth super fun ride, very similar to the Le Tour, a bit 
sportier than my Clementine. An excellent and beautiful machine, and 
for my friend's purposes, is capable of 100% of what she needs from a 
bicycle, though she plans to keep her Trek hybrid for grocery trips, 
and her Bianchi for its lovely pink paint job. I'm going to send her a 
few suggestions from the Riv site for carrying a small amount of gear, 
maybe a small saddlesack or a front basket. She'll mainly be doing  
rides alone or C level club rides on the (flat) Connecticut shore 
area, or 20-30 mile hilly rides here in the Hudson Valley. Couple more 
shot of Chev: https://photos.app.goo.gl/HGgecEi2c1CPqRdn2







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Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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[RBW] Rivendell Cheviot Meets Schwinn Le Tour

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

In late October of last year there was a PSA about a Cheviot on the Boston 
craigslist. Turned out to be Harris Cyclery, I called to make sure it was 
still available, then my friend called and bought it. A few days later, she 
made the 3+ hour drive to pick it up. It's always a bit of a crap shoot 
buying a bike before seeing it and riding it in person, especially when 
recommending a friend do so. But because it was a Rivendell, and being sold 
by a Riv dealer, I was much more confident. Still, I was prepared to help 
with picking out and installing a new seat, handlebars, pedals to make it 
work. As it turns out, after a few rides this past fall, she reported that 
the bike was perfect for her as equipped (although yesterday she discovered 
that her  Ibex wool gloves, despite the rubber on the palms, were slippery 
on the shellacked cork grips, so she rode in her red suede dress gloves). 

At 5'6", she is on the short side of the saddle heights listed for the 55cm 
size, but it fits her great. I got a chance to try it out yesterday, our 
first ride together in 2018. Midway through a short loop ride, I changed 
our saddle heights, and she finished up on my Le Tour mixte while I rode 
the Cheviot. I'm 5'10", and if I pushed back the saddle a bit from her 
position and raised the bars a bit, I think I could pretty much replicate 
my position on the Le Tour--though if I were buying one for myself, I would 
get the 59. 

It's a super smooth super fun ride, very similar to the Le Tour, a bit 
sportier than my Clementine. An excellent and beautiful machine, and for my 
friend's purposes, is capable of 100% of what she needs from a bicycle, 
though she plans to keep her Trek hybrid for grocery trips, and her Bianchi 
for its lovely pink paint job. I'm going to send her a few suggestions from 
the Riv site for carrying a small amount of gear, maybe a small saddlesack 
or a front basket. She'll mainly be doing  rides alone or C level club 
rides on the (flat) Connecticut shore area, or 20-30 mile hilly rides here 
in the Hudson Valley. Couple more shot of Chev: 
https://photos.app.goo.gl/HGgecEi2c1CPqRdn2





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Re: [RBW] Re: Suntour Power Thumb Shifters

[Garth]

Any of them Ed !
 Friction does not limit or is limited by the number of cogs, given the 
intended cable pull ratio. I have used mine from 5-9 speeds, easy breezy. They 
have a huge range. 

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Re: [RBW] Quick FAQ? What’s the rear spacing on the Atlantis?

[James Warren]

Always 135


> On Jan 27, 2018, at 6:44 PM, John W  wrote:
> 
> My Google-fu is off and I can’t find the answer to this definitively. Is it 
> 135? 132.5? And has it changed through the years?
> 
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