[RBW] Re: daily post ur riv

[Chris L]

Is there a photo out there of this bike with albatross bars and a Sugino 
wide-low crankset?  The bike is leaning against a corner.  The size and 
color look the same but this was before I discovered RBW so maybe that was 
a common color.  The albatross photo was one of the first to spark my 
fascination with Rivendell bikes. 



On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 5:43:33 PM UTC-6, James Valiensi wrote:
>
> [image: IMG_1316.jpeg]
>
> My 17-year old Custom Rivendell Road Bike. Only original parts on it are 
> the fenders, which I recently reinstalled after 15-years off. 
>
> I love the Rene Herse crankset. It was the 1st time, in a long time that I 
> got to use my Campagnolo peanut butter wrench!
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Experiences with Atlantis

[Jason Fuller]

Crust's business plan basically requires that Matt sells through a batch 
before they have the cashflow to buy a new run, hence the sporadic 
availability - but you can rest assured that most of the time, a new order 
is only 1-3 months away.  I love the Bombora, I actually debated between 
that and the Hillborne but ended up going Hillborne so I could keep my rim 
brake wheelset (and mindset!).  I really like the Nor'Easter too. 

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[RBW] Re: Experiences with Atlantis

[masmojo]

Well, the Atlantis could certainly handle that. I have an older 53 Toyo (I 
believe) and it's phenomenal. Ideal for what you are doing.  They had the newer 
ones on the floor the last time I was there, but for some reason I  didn't try 
it. ?
I also have a Crust Bombora and it is an amazing bike as well. As you noted 
Crust is sold out of almost everything; Evasions are really slim pickings and 
I've been meaning to ask Matt if a restock is eminent. I would guess it'll be 
at least 3 months before Bomboras get restocked, possibly longer. 
I am also curious to see what the next round of Evasions looks like.

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[RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[masmojo]

Leah, you basically confirmed what I was saying, not so much who the typical 
Rivendell buyer is, but who they are not and that is a person who makes a habit 
of reading Bicycle discussion groups. We are the overzealous, over analytical, 
OCDs who agonize over tube lengths; we are the exceptions and likely a thorn in 
Grant's side. If you've been to Rivendell HQ you know there's a luxury sports 
car dealership right next door (Maserati I believe), my impression of Walnut 
Creek is pretty much summed up by that. My impression is many of the locals 
wouldn't think twice about dropping 2 or 3 large on a bike & parking it in the 
corner of the garage. A very beautiful expensive bike that likely never gets 
ridden. That to me is kind of the curse of the expensive bike. 
The North American Handmade Bicycle Show will be in town in March and I am for 
sure going, if for no other reason than to gawk, but in the back of my mind I 
am thinking "should I or shouldn't I?" An angel on one shoulder & a devil on 
the other; certainly a blank check could get me anything I desire. Hmm . . .

Question is if I get a Custom Retrotech or Blacksheep, etc. Would I ride it? 
Might it be too precious? I expect I would, but I  would have to really think 
about it and if I have to think about it, is it worth it? Sorry, slightly off 
topic.

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[RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Jesse]

On Sunday, January 5, 2020 at 9:54:07 PM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> - yes the front wheel is harder to hop over things, *but there is nearly 
> no need because of weight distribution of the bike.* Yes, I still go over 
> logs and rocks, far better than my Hunqapillar does.
>

DP, can you expand on this a bit? Thanks.

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[RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[aeroperf]

IMHO, masmojo and Steve and Iconley and especially Bicycle Belle are all 
correct, because the customer base is for Rivs is pretty diverse.  People 
find their way to Rivendell in different ways, and with different bases of 
knowledge.

There’s a bicycle store owner at Floyd Rd. near Atlanta who has an RB-1 and 
wishes he had a Riv with dual top tube but his legs are too short.  He 
knows bikes better than most.  There’s me who only owned 5 previous bikes 
in 65 years but researched lugged steel as a final retirement bike.  There 
are Grant-followers.  There are people with more money than sense who want 
what some peer group considers “the best”.  There are folks sent by dealers 
who are looking for the highest profit percentage.  There are folks who 
have met Riv owners on rides and have looked and gone “O…I want that”.  
And of course, there are folks who found a Riv for $25 at an estate sale 
and just thinks it “rides OK”, and never even know about this forum.

But for those of us Riv owners who have found their way to this forum, it 
is certainly a valid question as to where the design is going.  Most of the 
commenters I’ve seen have more than one Riv.  It pushed me to do an A-B, 
LWB/Non-LWB ride, to see what I really thought about longer chainstays, and 
read others opinions about whether it was just chainstays or possibly 
tires, possibly wheel size, possibly fitting, too.
I would think (and hope) that the folks at Riv are reading this, and that 
other forum members put forth opinions - Whether Based On Numbers Or Not!  
Riv is a business.  This is feedback to that business.  If it doesn’t feel 
comfortable to YOU, or doesn’t fit on the local #30 bus rack, or can’t be 
carried upstairs and must be left chained to a road sign for potential 
thieves, these are valid sales concerns.

Oh, and for hard data… My 2015 55 Sam has a 1050mm wheelbase, while my 2019 
51 Homer has a 1075mm wheelbase.
The Sam has 45.5cm chain stays and the Homer has 47.5cm chain stays.  As 
for my opinion, I prefer the ride of the Sam.

Great topic.


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Re: [RBW] Re: Random Eat Bacon Don't Jog Ketones question

[Tim Tetrault]

Yes! Thanks, Shoji!

On Tue, Jan 7, 2020 at 6:54 AM Shoji Takahashi 
wrote:

> Tim,
> I think this is the post to which you're referring?
> https://eatbacondontjog.com/post/143963689555/some-ketosis-stuff
>
> Tailwinds, Shoji
>
>
>
> On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 5:26:54 PM UTC-5, Tim Tetrault wrote:
>>
>> Cyclofiend Jim- feel free to delete is this is wy to far off topic
>> for this crew, I'm just not sure where else to point this.
>>
>> RBW Keto people (Deacon Patrick?)- do you all recall the site that Grant
>> Petersen uses to obtain ketone blood test strips from Canada for much
>> cheaper than US pricing? My daughter has T1 diabetes and it was a godsend
>> when he shared that out, I'm just not sure where he was sending people. I
>> think it popped up in a newsletter long ago, or maybe a Blahg.
>>
>> Or, Grant, if you can hear me- where are you getting your blood ketone
>> test strips nowadays?
>>
>> Tim
>>
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> .
>

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[RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Oh, this has been so interesting! I am taking a break from errands and cleaning 
to catch up on here, and then back to my floors. This List is a good reward for 
getting the undesirable stuff done - I’ll treat myself to reading your posts 
when I’m through with the dreaded housework.

Mark Roland - hurry up and build your bike so you can contribute here! We might 
be the only two who have had Clementines and the 2019 Clem L. And I am not as 
helpful as you when it comes to dissecting their differences.

Dorothy - you are the kindest. If ever I’m in your neighborhood, we shall ride 
little Clems! 

Adam Leibow - your Day in the Life of A Clem video is boss. You are so cool.

Bob Lovejoy (whose name I covet) - thank you! I measured my 52 Clem to have 
50.5 inches hub to hub, so hope that helps someone. I’m wondering how long the 
new iteration of Cheviot will be, and I’m glad I have a comparison, knowing 
what your 60 is. There’s s hope it won’t be longer than 48 in my size... 

Steve Cold and DougP - I’m so glad this thread took off and everyone had such 
interesting points of view and useful contributions. So pleased you also find 
it enjoyable and instructive. Me, too!

To answer Masmojo, et all, about Who Shops At Rivendell and what kind of 
knowledge base do they have, I offer a couple of thoughts. Reflecting on it, I  
realized I am walking on both sides of the line here. I’d venture that most 
folks shopping at Rivendell know what they’re getting. They will expect a 
beautiful, useful, comfortable, enduring bicycle that they can only get in a 
handful of places country-wide, and they’re willing to shell out the bucks for 
one. Regular people who are not in the know would say I was a NUT for spending 
more than a few hundred bucks on a silly bicycle - those aren’t the folks 
shopping at Riv. 

Though I wasn’t a proficient in the language of bikes, I was driven to 
Rivendell because of *need.*  I loved to ride my bike and couldn’t find a way 
to get comfortable on it and be able to carry things and pull my kids around. 
My neck was killing me and that “upgraded” saddle was unspeakable. I felt 
defeated because I’d had Walmart my whole life but had splurged on a Craigslist 
Trek (my very first “nice” bike, at age 30) and I was worse off than I was with 
the broken Walmart Schwinn. I was totally demoralized. I took my money and 
headed to local bike shops for help and they rarely listened, dismissed what 
mattered to me, and, if I ever did get their attention, they couldn’t offer 
anything to help me. I turned to cycling forums for help (another nightmare) 
and heard the name Rivendell. I didn’t speak a word of bike geek at the time, 
but here was a bike shop promising me the things I’d been searching for and 
best of all, they were nothing like the cycling forum people or the big name 
bike shops. I pored over the website. I knew nothing about bikes, but I knew 
everything about Rivendell. 

Even though I don’t speak the language of bike geometry, I know when a bike 
feels good, and I can identify the problems they give me. Had I never thrown a 
leg over a Rivendell, save my current blue beauty, I’d be very pleased with the 
comfort level. I wouldn’t know the bike was long until someone told me, or 
until I realized it wouldn’t fit onto my bike rack. I WOULD know that the bars 
were too far away, I just wouldn’t know there was anything I could do about 
that. I’d know the bike was unwieldy to lift and also heavy. I don’t think my 
concerns are a result of a bike geek poring over numbers and comparing them, I 
think my concerns are real and I’d have them even if I had no other Riv ride to 
compare to. So, I’m on both sides of the line.

I feel like I’m taking you too far down the rabbit hole and losing the point, 
so I’ll stop there. Mom always says you have to say something nice after saying 
something harsh - and since I feel like I’ve expressed some disappointment in 
my Clem I will balance it with this: My bike is gorgeous. Heart-rendingly 
beautiful. I see it - I smile. It’s romantic and strong and capable and you 
can’t have it. He’s just kind of a big guy, that’s all. But I can live with 
that. 

Back to floor cleaning!

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[RBW] Re: FS: Swift Zeitgeist Saddle Bag, Nitto Rear Racks

[Andre Rosario]

*Correction*: I just checked and it seems that the Big Rear Rack is 
actually the larger size (35cm height). 

Also, I realized that I could have done a much better job with the original 
posting, so I'm attaching some more detailed photos here, including some 
that show the blemishes. For the Mt Campee, the struts that attach to the 
cantilever posts are included (with hardware) in the baggie shown below. 
The upper struts shown are 12cm in length, but if you prefer I can swap 
them out for either 18cm or 24cm depending on what you think you need for 
your frame. For the Big Rear (32R), the struts shown are 18cm. 

Mt. Campee:

[image: IMG_1671.HEIC] [image: IMG_1672.HEIC] 


[image: IMG_1673.HEIC] [image: IMG_1675.HEIC]

[image: IMG_1676.HEIC]

Big Rear (33R):

[image: IMG_1677.HEIC] [image: IMG_1679.HEIC]

[image: IMG_1678.HEIC]

On Saturday, January 4, 2020 at 7:55:28 PM UTC-8, Andre Rosario wrote:
>
> Hi, folks. This isn't, strictly speaking, a Rivendell post, so I hope it's 
> okay with y'all. Please let me know if not. I'm unloading a few things, 
> which I'd prefer to sell locally (Oakland, CA), but which I can also ship 
> (CONUS) for an extra $15.
>
> - Swift Industries Zeitgeist Saddle Bag (small) in charcoal and saffron 
> yellow. Lightly used, in very good condition with straps. $100
> - Nitto Big Rear Rack. A couple scrapes, but fundamentally sound and still 
> very pretty. Struts and hardware included.  $120
> - Nitto Mt. Campee rear rack. Very good condition. Struts and hardware 
> included. $85
>
>
> I'm pretty sure the Big Rear Rack is the medium size, but can anyone tell 
> me how to confirm this?
>
> [image: IMG_1586.jpg][image: IMG_1533.jpg]
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[dougP]

BBDD:

Thanks you so much for initiating this discussion.  It has great value by 
opening up the various requirements and constraints that riders have that 
dictate bicycle choice.  For instance, I never considered bus racks or 
dragging my Atlantis up flights of stairs.  Even though as a rule we're not 
overly concerned with weight, that is a real world problem if you have to 
lift your bike onto a hook on a train, an experience I had on the Portland 
light rail.

It's interesting to see all the various issues people must take into 
consideration when buying a bike for themselves.  Great topic.

dougP

On Sunday, January 5, 2020 at 4:43:56 PM UTC-8, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
> I have wanted to start this thread for weeks. Fearing controversy, not 
> desiring to start fights, and worried that staff at Riv will read this, I 
> never mustered up the guts. But the long wheelbase bike topic has come up 
> in several threads now, and maybe we should just have the discussion. 
> People are wanting to buy these bikes, and since most don’t live near a 
> dealer, we need to help each other out regarding bike fit. 
>
> I got a new Clem L (unless you have been living under a ROCK you know this 
> since it’s all I talk about. Go ahead, I dare you to ask me about the color 
> of paint that it has. ) and it’s nothing like the other Clems I’ve known 
> and loved. Why? Because it has an even longer wheelbase than than its 
> long-wheelbase predecessors. 
>
> Recently, Rivendell pointed us to an Ask Me Anything with Grant on Reddit. 
> It was a wall of text and I read it. Folks asked their most pressing 
> questions and Grant graciously answered them. Over and over and over again 
> long wheelbase bikes were brought up, and Grant offered his opinion. Longer 
> bikes are more stable, Cadillac-like, comfortable, etc. The opposite of 
> twitchy, short-wheelbase bikes. We know this and most of us will accept it. 
>
> BUT...what I am dying to know is this: how long can you go before it is no 
> longer an improvement? 
>
> Example: My 52 Clementine was much more comfortable than my 55 Betty Foy. 
> Like it was tailor-made for me alone. The Betz was totally fine, no knocks 
> against it, but the Clementine was just more plush. So, I agree with Grant 
> - longer was better. 
>
> The problem came with my Clem L, the 2019 version that had had its 
> geometry changed. I didn’t know I was getting a different bike. I was 
> surprised when I had to buy (several) different stems and a new long 
> wheelbase bar for my Saris rack. It’s been a lot of adjustment, and I’ve 
> been frustrated. If I understand correctly, several Rivendell models have 
> been lengthened as of late. 
>
> The burning question I have: Can anyone tell us if the new longer bikes 
> are better or worse than the previous (also long) versions? We know the 
> theory, what of the reality? I’m thinking especially of the Clems, as they 
> were already SO long. But I think Atlantis people will also have something 
> to say... 
>
> I wanted to have this discussion because I genuinely want to know how the 
> newest long bikes are working out for folks. But I also want to let others 
> know that there are some things to consider if you get one of these new 
> iterations. Will a 52 Clem fit on public transport? I think no. Will it fit 
> on your vehicle hitch bike rack? Mine won’t. Will it be difficult for you 
> to park your long bike in a public rack? Can you back your bike out of your 
> garage/shed easily at this new length? What if you are right between sizes? 
> Rivendell would have you go up, I’m not sure I wouldn’t have done better on 
> the next size down. 
>
> Of course we can have this discussion and keep it kind, can’t we, Friends. 
> It would be so horrible if Rivendell staff read this and saw a lot of 
> inflammatory remarks. I think we’re allowed to have a decent and 
> informative chat, and undoubtedly some people will find it helpful. Plus, 
> maybe Rivendell will find it useful. If the extra long bikes aren’t meeting 
> expectations, maybe there will be changes to future bikes. 
>
> I did put 9 miles riding up a mountain with groceries in my front basket 
> on the new Clem L, so I’m working our relationship! 
> Leah 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Bob Lovejoy]

Hi Leah,

I was moving bikes around and remembered you had asked about 60cm Cheviot 
lengths and wheelbases?

I measure 48 inches dropout-to-dropout.
Using 700x38 rims/tires, those add ~27.5" to the total length, so ~75.5 
inches total, 
plus maybe a little for a rear fender if so equipped.

And that is with 54cm chainstays (measured and true to the online spec)

Hope that helps...!

Bob

P.S.  My Cheviot has managed to live a more sheltered life than the 
lambbo's!?  All paint, well, 99.8%?, still on the bike and glad to be I 
think...


On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 8:40:30 PM UTC-6, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
> I really like this story, but for the forced beausage. Scraping off paint? 
> That hurt to read. Anyway, I love that you love your Chev and it is so good 
> to know that you find it the ultimate comfortable commuter. That’s the 
> sweet spot for a bike for me. 
>
> Do you happen to know how long your 60 Chev is? I’m curious how a 60 Chev 
> measures up to a 52 Clem L when you measure the wheelbase. If you know, 
> will you leave it here? 
>
> Thanks,
> Leah
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[lconley]

On Tuesday, January 7, 2020 at 2:23:11 PM UTC-5, masmojo wrote:
>
>
> "Main reason I alight here at all is because I have a desk job, where I am 
> looking at a computer all day."
>

 Ditto.

I stumbled upon Rivendell 10? years ago when I was still nursing my 1973 
Paramount P-15 along. Back when I had less than 5 bicycles (20++ now). I 
thought that Rivendells were a steal - where else could you get a new 
quality lugged frame for a reasonable amount of money - less than many 
wanted for their 30-40 year old steel frames on E-bay. I thought then, as 
now, that the carbon fiber frames were ugly and their paint schemes even 
worse.

I remember when my touring Paramount was looked down upon for it's "long" 
chain stays 17 and "long" wheelbase and heavy Reynolds 531 tubing. 

One thing I have learned over the years is that Rivendells are always 
evolving - the geometry charts are just a picture in time - my tentacled 
Bombadil isn't close to the geometry chart - the chain stays are much 
longer than the chart.

Laing
Delray Beach FL

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[RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Jason Fuller]

It would be surprising to me that someone would spend the money on a 
Rivendell without being quite educated about bikes, but let's face it, 
Rivendell is quite a "lifestyle brand" in a sense since Grant has a unique 
perspective in the industry. So I guess it could happen. Rivendells are 
meant to be a "don't worry about the details and just ride your bike" kind 
of company but at the price point, I think most buyers are fairly die-hard 
cyclists who have probably done a fair bit of their own wrenching.  Always 
exceptions, though. 

Back to the topic at hand, I do wonder where the dust will settle - the 
pendulum can sometimes swing a bit, and it's completely possible that the 
average CS length will decrease in the next three years.  Maybe it'll 
further increase.  That's the topic of debate, though.  I have fully bought 
into the idea that most people ride bikes with too-short chainstays, and I 
also believe that front-centers getting longer (and stems getting 
correspondingly shorter) is a benefit to most riders.  But I also believe 
that most too-short chainstays are only too short by a small margin on 
small sizes.  It's a completely different thing to put 50cm chainstays on a 
61cm frame versus a 51cm frame, and the latter is, in my opinion, a bad 
idea (unless it's a touring bike).

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[RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[masmojo]

Educated guess more than assumptions, obviously I have no hard data.

My local Rivendell dealer (a friend of mine) would tell me that any time 
Radavist had a post on Rivendell, Surly or All City (All Brands he was a dealer 
for) his phone would ring, because he was listed as a dealer on their websites.

Likewise, how many times have you seen a post here or Ebay listing that read 
along the lines of "I bought this bike two years ago to commute to work, but 
now I am retired . . . " OR "I am selling this for a friend who bought it, but 
never rode it" Or something similar? Far too many times for me to count! 
Do you think the retired person selling the bike they no longer use is 
frequenting this group? The friend who is selling his bike? Even for the large 
portion of people who have regularly use their Rivendell, they spend their time 
riding, probably don't know this chat group exists.
Main reason I alight here at all is because I have a desk job, where I am 
looking at a computer all day.

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[RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Joe Bernard]

I don't know, man, you're assuming an awful lot of stuff as fact that are 
clearly opinions. MY opinion is most Riv buyers are pretty full up on Riv 
knowledge before they buy one. MY opinion is you either know a lot about these 
bikes, or not enough to even know they exist. 

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[RBW] Re: FS: 62 Sam, 58 Sam, Rosco Babys and some Surly Framesets

[Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles]

Update/bump58cm 2tt Sam SOLD


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[RBW] Re: Experiences with Atlantis

[Chris M]

My greatest regret is selling my pointy-lugged, made-in-Japan Atlantis. The 
Atlantis was forgiving of my inexperience and 2nd-rate packing job on my 
first multi-day tour in Wyoming back in 2008. I couldn't have had more fun 
or been more comfortable (though I've adjusted my saddle angle since then). 

It made for a nice, zippy(ish) around-town bike unloaded and with lighter 
wheels, too. If you can find an old short-stayed Atlantis, I can't 
recommend it enough! But buy it fast, because I'm also looking for one... 

[image: Image may contain: one or more people, mountain, outdoor and nature]

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[RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[masmojo]

Steve, I didn't say it was a bad thing (I'm here & OC), just saying that most 
people are not going to know their stem is too long; they may know it feels 
weird, but will probably assume that's how it's supposed to be. As a person 
that's hung out in bike shops (too much) I've seen far too many people come in 
with their handlebars upside down, their forks backwards, the quick releases 
installed incorrectly,  etc. AND be totally oblivious; give those same people a 
RTR Rivendell and it'll feel SOOO much better that even if it's not ideal they 
will be thrilled.
The evidence? The relatively small number of posters here vs. The number of 
people who buy Rivendells. 
One of the mechanics at the last shop I frequented (Riv dealer, now closed) who 
incidentally had been a mechanic for many years said he'd never even heard of 
Rivendell until started working at that shop and mine was one of the first he'd 
ever seen! The vast majority are sold and evaporate into thin air only to show 
up for sale on Ebay or here many years later. The average bike buyer gets 
excited about bikes rides all summer long, it goes in the loft or garage when 
winter comes and many times never gets ridden again. 
Regarding Leah, she's started this thread as a reaction to her newest Rivendell 
and getting it to ride like her previous ones, without those previous bikes as 
reference she might know it feels funny, but not what it should feel like.

Not sure what Grant's status with the "average" Riv buyer is, but he's revered 
by hardcore Bridgestone & Rivendell riders and is very well known in the bike 
industry at large. Your comment regarding Radavist & Bikesnob makes me think 
you don't frequent either; many of the mainstay personalities on Radavist are 
big fans of Grant & Rivendell and both  are mentioned regularly. Eben Weiss 
hardly goes a week or two without mentioning either Grant or Rivendell and both 
sites have linked ads for Rivendell. No doubt the average readers there are 
VERY aware of Grant & Rivendell.
Not sure why you took issue with any of that, but I stand by all of it. It's 
all based on direct experience and/or observation.

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Re: [RBW] Re: daily post ur riv

['Paul Germain' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Wow. What a beautiful bike and build Reid!
Paul GermainMidlothian, Va.


-Original Message-
From: Reid Echols 
To: RBW Owners Bunch 
Sent: Mon, Jan 6, 2020 3:56 pm
Subject: [RBW] Re: daily post ur riv

Decided to keep the Rambouillet and build it up for quick road rides in this 
glorious TX January weather. I’ve sold a few Rivs over the years, but never 
regretted keeping one! 

Reid in Austin

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[RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Dorothy C]

Leah, 
If you are ever in the Northridge, CA area you are welcome to go for a bike 
ride with me and try the smaller 2019 Clem L

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[RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Joe Bernard]

In my other life I'm a news junkie and boy do I not need to read and write 
about THAT more often. I'm GLAD I obsess on Riv stuff as much as I do!

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[RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Steve Cole]

This is among the most enjoyable, interesting and useful threads I've read 
on  RBWOB.  Thanks to Leah and all those who she has motivated to 
contribute.  Following Joe's and Steve's responses to the idea that many of 
us are obsessive/compulsive about our Riv bikes, I plead guilty.  And I 
hope my sentence is to be force-fed even more information, data, videos, 
etc.  My wife thinks I spend more time thinking about riding my Rivs than 
actually riding them  She may be correct.  As the same time, Thinking about 
cycling gives me almost as much, if not as much pleasure, as riding.  It 
allows me to fill more of my day pleasurably than I could if I rode and did 
not obsess about it.

Steve Cole
Arlington, VA

On Sunday, January 5, 2020 at 5:43:56 PM UTC-7, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
> I have wanted to start this thread for weeks. Fearing controversy, not 
> desiring to start fights, and worried that staff at Riv will read this, I 
> never mustered up the guts. But the long wheelbase bike topic has come up 
> in several threads now, and maybe we should just have the discussion. 
> People are wanting to buy these bikes, and since most don’t live near a 
> dealer, we need to help each other out regarding bike fit. 
>
> I got a new Clem L (unless you have been living under a ROCK you know this 
> since it’s all I talk about. Go ahead, I dare you to ask me about the color 
> of paint that it has. ) and it’s nothing like the other Clems I’ve known 
> and loved. Why? Because it has an even longer wheelbase than than its 
> long-wheelbase predecessors. 
>
> Recently, Rivendell pointed us to an Ask Me Anything with Grant on Reddit. 
> It was a wall of text and I read it. Folks asked their most pressing 
> questions and Grant graciously answered them. Over and over and over again 
> long wheelbase bikes were brought up, and Grant offered his opinion. Longer 
> bikes are more stable, Cadillac-like, comfortable, etc. The opposite of 
> twitchy, short-wheelbase bikes. We know this and most of us will accept it. 
>
> BUT...what I am dying to know is this: how long can you go before it is no 
> longer an improvement? 
>
> Example: My 52 Clementine was much more comfortable than my 55 Betty Foy. 
> Like it was tailor-made for me alone. The Betz was totally fine, no knocks 
> against it, but the Clementine was just more plush. So, I agree with Grant 
> - longer was better. 
>
> The problem came with my Clem L, the 2019 version that had had its 
> geometry changed. I didn’t know I was getting a different bike. I was 
> surprised when I had to buy (several) different stems and a new long 
> wheelbase bar for my Saris rack. It’s been a lot of adjustment, and I’ve 
> been frustrated. If I understand correctly, several Rivendell models have 
> been lengthened as of late. 
>
> The burning question I have: Can anyone tell us if the new longer bikes 
> are better or worse than the previous (also long) versions? We know the 
> theory, what of the reality? I’m thinking especially of the Clems, as they 
> were already SO long. But I think Atlantis people will also have something 
> to say... 
>
> I wanted to have this discussion because I genuinely want to know how the 
> newest long bikes are working out for folks. But I also want to let others 
> know that there are some things to consider if you get one of these new 
> iterations. Will a 52 Clem fit on public transport? I think no. Will it fit 
> on your vehicle hitch bike rack? Mine won’t. Will it be difficult for you 
> to park your long bike in a public rack? Can you back your bike out of your 
> garage/shed easily at this new length? What if you are right between sizes? 
> Rivendell would have you go up, I’m not sure I wouldn’t have done better on 
> the next size down. 
>
> Of course we can have this discussion and keep it kind, can’t we, Friends. 
> It would be so horrible if Rivendell staff read this and saw a lot of 
> inflammatory remarks. I think we’re allowed to have a decent and 
> informative chat, and undoubtedly some people will find it helpful. Plus, 
> maybe Rivendell will find it useful. If the extra long bikes aren’t meeting 
> expectations, maybe there will be changes to future bikes. 
>
> I did put 9 miles riding up a mountain with groceries in my front basket 
> on the new Clem L, so I’m working our relationship! 
> Leah 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Steve Palincsar]

On 1/7/20 10:07 AM, masmojo wrote:

Truth is the people in this group are generally obsessive compulsive and way 
too deep into the details and minutia of bikes and Rivendell in particular.



You say that as if it was a /bad/ thing.  Which is, of course, nonsense!



The average Rivendell buyer likely doesn't get so involved; they are sucked in 
via Radavist, BikesnobNYC or maybe old the Lovelybike site. They land on the 
web site poke around and buy a bike. They will have no point of reference.



Evidence?



It's likely Leah would be over the moon with her new Clem if she didn't already 
have a Clementine & Betty Foy. Just like my opinions are colored by the 30 or 
so bikes I've owned, my time as a mechanic, wrenching my own bikes, 
building/fabricating things, other people's bikes I've ridden, etc. It's deep pool 
of knowledge (largely trivial) that most people don't have.
That coupled with Grant's status allow him to do things other people in the 
business working for larger companies couldn't get away with.



What status does Grant have among the ranks of those "average" Riv 
buyers?  If all they know is BSNYC & Radavist, likely they've never 
heard of the man or have no opinion of him whatever.



If it doesn't quite work, Grant can just fudge it around for next time.
My Clementine is very comfortable,  but it is slower than any other bike I 
have; it's not a huge difference, but over the course of an hour or two the 
difference can add up. And if it's a hilly route with a strong headwind, I best 
not be in a hurry.
Anywayz, I am glad someone else mentioned pedal strike, because when I 
mentioned it in the past people assumed I was some sort of newby who didn't 
know how to ride.


--
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Joe Bernard]

I don't agree that Riv riders are too into the details. I don't agree that the 
average Riv rider is not into them. I don't agree that Leah would feel 
differently about her Clem L without other Rivs as reference because she still 
would have needed a shorter stem and longer car rack to make it work for her. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[masmojo]

Truth is the people in this group are generally obsessive compulsive and way 
too deep into the details and minutia of bikes and Rivendell in particular. 

The average Rivendell buyer likely doesn't get so involved; they are sucked in 
via Radavist, BikesnobNYC or maybe old the Lovelybike site. They land on the 
web site poke around and buy a bike. They will have no point of reference. It's 
likely Leah would be over the moon with her new Clem if she didn't already have 
a Clementine & Betty Foy. Just like my opinions are colored by the 30 or so 
bikes I've owned, my time as a mechanic, wrenching my own bikes, 
building/fabricating things, other people's bikes I've ridden, etc. It's deep 
pool of knowledge (largely trivial) that most people don't have.
That coupled with Grant's status allow him to do things other people in the 
business working for larger companies couldn't get away with.
If it doesn't quite work, Grant can just fudge it around for next time. 
My Clementine is very comfortable,  but it is slower than any other bike I 
have; it's not a huge difference, but over the course of an hour or two the 
difference can add up. And if it's a hilly route with a strong headwind, I best 
not be in a hurry.
Anywayz, I am glad someone else mentioned pedal strike, because when I 
mentioned it in the past people assumed I was some sort of newby who didn't 
know how to ride.

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[RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[tc]

Adam, thx for that video!  Passing racer boys on a fat-tired Clem L “cruiser”, 
no less. 

Tom

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[RBW] Re: Random Eat Bacon Don't Jog Ketones question

[Shoji Takahashi]

Tim,
I think this is the post to which you're referring?
https://eatbacondontjog.com/post/143963689555/some-ketosis-stuff

Tailwinds, Shoji



On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 5:26:54 PM UTC-5, Tim Tetrault wrote:
>
> Cyclofiend Jim- feel free to delete is this is wy to far off topic for 
> this crew, I'm just not sure where else to point this.
>
> RBW Keto people (Deacon Patrick?)- do you all recall the site that Grant 
> Petersen uses to obtain ketone blood test strips from Canada for much 
> cheaper than US pricing? My daughter has T1 diabetes and it was a godsend 
> when he shared that out, I'm just not sure where he was sending people. I 
> think it popped up in a newsletter long ago, or maybe a Blahg. 
>
> Or, Grant, if you can hear me- where are you getting your blood ketone 
> test strips nowadays?
>
> Tim
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Dorothy C]

Leah, 
Re the windy day bike, thanks for your comment, it made me laugh. 
It is more or less coincidental. I bought the Appaloosa first, in 2017. It is 
the smallest model with 26 inch wheels and is outfitted with Schwalbe Big Ben 
tires, Bullmoose bars and the new Nitto front basket rack with a Wald basket. 
While the 55 Cheviot is fine too, the Appaloosa is the most resistant to gusts.
You asked how my Clem rides compared to the 52; I am not able to ride them side 
by side as my son is grown and living in a different city. I rode his twice 
when we picked it up in September, but I didn’t get my frame until the end of 
October. 
My Clem build was a remake of a hybrid I had been putting Riv parts on, with 
the replacement of the wheelset, and Chocomoose bars that had previously been 
on my Appaloosa. I also put the new Silver 2 shifters on it as bar ends.

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