Re: [RBW] Re: 55cm Platypus for sale Davis, CA

[Ahmed Elgasseir]

Sorry folks. The updated pic should be non portal creating. :-)

A

On Sat, Jan 29, 2022 at 8:43 PM  wrote:

> I can tell you this much: it’s not a California or UC Davis bike license.
>
> On Jan 29, 2022, at 20:40, John Rinker  wrote:
>
> It looks to me like either an ID bar code or a portal into another
> reality where people live in friendly communities surrounded by respected
> habitats suitable for the endemic species to thrive and the necessities of
> life are procured on foot or by bicycle. And there's a river.
>
> On Sunday, January 30, 2022 at 1:34:30 PM UTC+9 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> There will be no guesses.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 2:04:54 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> Any guesses as to what that big black sticker is on the seattube?
>>> College parking or commuter train thing? I'm into these frames but I'm
>>> worried about what's under there...
>>>
>>> Joe Bernard
>>>
>>> On Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 5:13:13 PM UTC-8 Lucky wrote:
>>>
 NOT my bike but I am close enough to help if necessary.


 https://sacramento.craigslist.org/bik/d/davis-rivendell-platypus/7438484202.html

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> .
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-- 

*Ahmed Elgasseir*

Department Chair, Visual and Performing Arts


*Castilleja School*

1310 Bryant Street


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Re: [RBW] Re: 55cm Platypus for sale Davis, CA

[luckyturnip]

I can tell you this much: it’s not a California or UC Davis bike license. 

> On Jan 29, 2022, at 20:40, John Rinker  wrote:
> 
> It looks to me like either an ID bar code or a portal into another reality 
> where people live in friendly communities surrounded by respected habitats 
> suitable for the endemic species to thrive and the necessities of life are 
> procured on foot or by bicycle. And there's a river.
>> On Sunday, January 30, 2022 at 1:34:30 PM UTC+9 Joe Bernard wrote:
>> There will be no guesses. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 2:04:54 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>> Any guesses as to what that big black sticker is on the seattube? College 
>>> parking or commuter train thing? I'm into these frames but I'm worried 
>>> about what's under there...
>>> 
>>> Joe Bernard
>>> 
 On Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 5:13:13 PM UTC-8 Lucky wrote:
 NOT my bike but I am close enough to help if necessary. 
 
 https://sacramento.craigslist.org/bik/d/davis-rivendell-platypus/7438484202.html
> 
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[RBW] Re: 55cm Platypus for sale Davis, CA

[John Rinker]

It looks to me like either an ID bar code or a portal into another reality 
where people live in friendly communities surrounded by respected habitats 
suitable for the endemic species to thrive and the necessities of life are 
procured on foot or by bicycle. And there's a river.
On Sunday, January 30, 2022 at 1:34:30 PM UTC+9 Joe Bernard wrote:

> There will be no guesses. 
>
>
>
> On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 2:04:54 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Any guesses as to what that big black sticker is on the seattube? College 
>> parking or commuter train thing? I'm into these frames but I'm worried 
>> about what's under there...
>>
>> Joe Bernard
>>
>> On Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 5:13:13 PM UTC-8 Lucky wrote:
>>
>>> NOT my bike but I am close enough to help if necessary. 
>>>
>>>
>>> https://sacramento.craigslist.org/bik/d/davis-rivendell-platypus/7438484202.html
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: 55cm Platypus for sale Davis, CA

[Joe Bernard]

There will be no guesses. 



On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 2:04:54 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Any guesses as to what that big black sticker is on the seattube? College 
> parking or commuter train thing? I'm into these frames but I'm worried 
> about what's under there...
>
> Joe Bernard
>
> On Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 5:13:13 PM UTC-8 Lucky wrote:
>
>> NOT my bike but I am close enough to help if necessary. 
>>
>>
>> https://sacramento.craigslist.org/bik/d/davis-rivendell-platypus/7438484202.html
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Cold Weather Riding Gear

[Patrick Moore]

This is excellent information; thanks. I will keep my eye on the Showers
Pass line.

On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 6:29 PM 'WilletM' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

>
> Another enthusiastic vote for Showers Pass Elite and Refuge (and other
> models) jackets as outer layers in cold/dry conditions.  Winter riding in
> western Colorado at 6000' of altitude is exceptionally comfortable, whether
> it's snowing (which is basically dry conditions) or actually dry outside.
> I do find that the pit zips alone are not sufficient for ventilation
> (staying in that target zone of cool and dry) in the temperature range of
> 20-35 F. where I most prefer to ride.  So I usually am working the front
> zipper of my shell (and also a half-zip 100 weight fleece underneath) up
> and down as needed to keep my upper torso cool (and therefore dry) rather
> than warm.
>
> As I believe others have mentioned, ventilating the sleeves (and keeping
> your arms/layers dry) is typically more difficult due to limited options
> for directing airflow (compared to the torso).  I mostly address this by
> keeping my torso/layers extra cool/dry when I feel my sleeves starting to
> get clammy.
>
> It certainly is true, at least in my experience over quite a few years,
> that it is MUCH more challenging to stay cool during cold weather riding
> conditions than it is to stay warm.  Warm is usually just a zipped-up
> zipper or amped-up heartrate away, whereas cooling off and drying out takes
> time and patience and practice to get the correct "recipe" to match the air
> temp outside.  But in the end, the (often rather expensive, admittedly)
> accumulation of clothing and gear, and the numerous test runs and
> trial/error periods of getting to the point of dressing properly for the
> NOW temperature/conditions and taking a few extra pieces to address the
> LATER temp/conditions is really, really rewarding.  A sunny day at 25
> degrees and a smooth asphalt shoulder along the highway is, for me, about
> as good as it gets for mid-winter bicycling.
>
> Willet M.
> Carbondale, CO
>

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Re: [RBW] Cold Weather Riding Gear

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Joyce.

On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 4:33 PM JAS  wrote:

> I like my Showers Pass Elite jacket for cold weather and rain.  Yes, it
> can be vented under the arms and has a cape-like back vent for air flow.
> If I don't open the arm vents, it can build up a little moisture, but
> nothing that makes me cold.  If it's super cold, I use a very heavy wool
> Patagonia crew neck base layer I got years ago to wear under my dry suit
> for kayaking, but it would probably be overkill for folks who run hot.

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Re: [RBW] Cold Weather Riding Gear

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Danny.

On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 7:38 PM Dee Dee  wrote:

> Patrick, 7mesh is the maker of the Revelation jacket Richard mentioned.
>
> https://7mesh.com/mens-revelation-jacket
>
> -Danny
>

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Re: [RBW] Cold Weather Riding Gear

[Patrick Moore]

Here's another: Specialized RBX Expert LS jersey. A synthetic ls jersey
whose insulating qualities are praised (tho' not its cut -- pockets too
high, said the reviewer of the woman's model). Some sort of breathable
synthetic woven material on the outside, some very thin fleece on the
inside.

Has anyone used this? You opinion?

It is said to be quite warm as a second layer, and to breathe well -- what
I am looking for in a 2nd layer over a wool jersey for temps in the upper
40s or low 50s. So far so good per the reviews I read.

But: Does it stink? And, does it pill? (I haven't worn synthetic jerseys
for almost 20 years.)

Thanks.

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Re: [RBW] Roadini heavy?

[Patrick Moore]

I haven't analyzed "planing" as far as Jason has, but I will add this: some
of the fastest (read: "feel fastest" measured by ease -- "feel" -- of
turning over a given gear at given cadences in given conditions) bikes I've
owned have been far from the lightest, and one of them, besides being heavy
(IIRC, 28 to 30 lb: full fenders, custom racks, a dyno system) was built of
pretty stout (but normal gauge) tubing, so stout that 2 previous owners
passed it on -- so I got a very good deal!

This bike, shod with mediocre tires (32 mm wire bead Paselas? 30 mm IRC
Tandems? Forget.) was one of those rare blessings that make you
automatically choose a cog 1 tooth smaller in back. (I sold it because I
didn't care for the handling; it was low trail, which I find feels vague.)

Another bike, all 30 1/2 lb of it, that just feels fast is my 2015 Chauncey
Matthews Road Bike for Dirt, aka Matthews 1:1. This is shod with 622 X 61
mm Big Ones -- these tires roll as well as the best extralight RH tires
I've used. This too calls for 1 tooth smaller in back. This bike, however,
is built of thinwall OS tubing, whatever effect that may have.

And as I said, the standard gauge .8 .6 .8 (or is it .8 .4 .8?) 531 tubes
on the 2020 Matthews Road Bike for Road ( Matt. 2:1) make it seem easier to
pedal than the OS and I daresay thickwall tubing used in my 2003 Riv custom
(frame + fork + Ultegra headset = 7 lb, heavy in my book). Until I rode
this Matthews I was a planing skeptic but after riding this I began to
think that somehow, sometimes, it does apply. Still, the 2 bikes above
"seemed to plane" but without standard gauge + thinwall tubing.

So, who knows?

170-175, masher in highish gears.

On Sat, Jan 29, 2022 at 11:46 AM Jason Fuller  wrote:

> The tubing spec needs to be matched well with the geometry to provide what
> Jan calls planing - the flex in the frame needs to match your power output
> and rhythm to give you a small but important "springboard" effect with each
> pedal stroke, in order to feel fast.  It really has little to nothing to do
> with the weight of the frame, but about how it is tuned to the rider.
>
> However, Jan tends to think that this basically requires superlight
> tubing, but I don't think that's quite true - I think the "rhythm" can be
> found in multiples, like harmonics, but if the stiffness of your bike lands
> between these harmonics, then it'll feel like you're trying to bounce on a
> trampoline where it's out of sync with your jumps. My wild theory is that
> the Rivendells that ride like magic despite being objectively quite
> overbuilt for a "fast" bike manage to land in the next stiffer "harmonic"
> for the average rider. I think my Sam does this for me and I think the
> Roadini could very well end up in this zone too.
>

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Re: [RBW] Roadini heavy?

[Joe Mullins]

Neal,

I’m the one you sold the Roadini to and I’m happy to report that I’m loving it! 
I swapped the 80mm stem for a 60mm and it put me in a slightly more upright 
position which causes no pain whatsoever. Every other drop bar bike I’ve owned 
just didn’t feel right after a few hours of riding. Thank you again!

Joe
Los Angeles, CA

> 
> On Jan 29, 2022, at 3:43 PM, nlerner  wrote:
> 
> I owned a Roadini for a relatively short time before selling it to someone 
> on this list, I believe. I liked the aesthetics a lot, but did find it on the 
> sluggish side and have other bikes that fit the “country bike” theme that I 
> found myself riding instead. Previous to that, I owned a Romulus, which saw 
> many miles and lots of brevet riding, but also was always a bit on the 
> sluggish side, particularly when climbing. Still, it was a really comfortable 
> rig, and well suited to distance riding as long as the hills weren’t too 
> brutal. I sold that once I got a Black Mountain Road, which checks all of the 
> boxes for me: great fit, room for 35mm tires, great climber, planes like the 
> dickens, super comfortable and versatile. So no I’m Riv-less (even sold my 
> ‘94 RB-T!), but I enjoy reading this list.
> 
> Neal Lerner
> Brookline MA USA
> 
>> On Saturday, January 29, 2022 at 1:46:17 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:
>> The tubing spec needs to be matched well with the geometry to provide what 
>> Jan calls planing - the flex in the frame needs to match your power output 
>> and rhythm to give you a small but important "springboard" effect with each 
>> pedal stroke, in order to feel fast.  It really has little to nothing to do 
>> with the weight of the frame, but about how it is tuned to the rider.  
>> 
>> However, Jan tends to think that this basically requires superlight tubing, 
>> but I don't think that's quite true - I think the "rhythm" can be found in 
>> multiples, like harmonics, but if the stiffness of your bike lands between 
>> these harmonics, then it'll feel like you're trying to bounce on a 
>> trampoline where it's out of sync with your jumps. My wild theory is that 
>> the Rivendells that ride like magic despite being objectively quite 
>> overbuilt for a "fast" bike manage to land in the next stiffer "harmonic" 
>> for the average rider. I think my Sam does this for me and I think the 
>> Roadini could very well end up in this zone too.  
>> 
>>> On Friday, 28 January 2022 at 13:21:45 UTC-8 kwi...@weimar.edu wrote:
>>> The Roadini is a very nice looking bike, too.  I hope this does not sound 
>>> superficial, but I enjoy the head badge, the decals, and the painted 
>>> cutouts on the seat lug more than if it were just 2 pounds lighter!  Also, 
>>> I rode a 'Redwood' (tall Romulus) frame back in the 2000's and really liked 
>>> it, but the Roadini is a more advance frame design in general (long head 
>>> tube, sloping top tube, wheel clearance, and more.).  I have an old Calfee 
>>> carbon frame I got used.  It is very light.  But I hardly ride it.  Why?  
>>> Hard to say, but I suspect that it has a lot to do with how the Roadini 
>>> feels 'planted' or secure (words fail me here), but on the human level, I 
>>> just prefer the look of the Roadini-- it has character and a timeless 
>>> beauty that makes the sum of all its parts more than just a 'fast bike', a 
>>> 'super light frame', or even a practical 'get the job done' machine.  And, 
>>> of course, it is always comfortable!  This is key: the Roadini does not 
>>> cause neck pain, back pain, hand tingling or stress from the worry of going 
>>> down if I hit a pot hole.   I won't be selling mine.
>>> 
 On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 12:48:36 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
 Well said, Karl. Add to that the probably (I've not ridden one) signature 
 Rivendell handling of the Roadini* and the pros may well outweigh the 
 cons. And of course, weighing the balance between pros and cons is largely 
 a matter of individual taste.
 
 Patrick Moore, ruthlessly botton-trimming his replies, in ABQ, NM.
 
 * I certainly loved this in the customs, and found it in the Ram and even 
 in the Sam, tho' the same had too much wheel flop for my taste.
 
> On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 1:31 PM Karl Wilcox  wrote:
> It might be helpful when considering a Roadini to observe that frame 
> stiffness or compliance are not the only things that matter.  I find my 
> Roadini stiffer than I prefer, but the
> Roadini offers other features that I just can't find in other production 
> frames.  For instance, the roadini fits me perfectly and I can get my 
> bars up higher without making the bicycle appear silly or handle funny 
> (my bars are exactly 1 inch below my saddle height).  Also, I can ride 
> 33c tires (I have the 2018 roadini), and the long wheelbase is wonderful. 
>  The Roadini is also versatile: I ride it on trails and on pavement.  I 
> can ride with fast club rides 

Re: [RBW] Re: Updates on, and further questions regarding the Riv Road Standard 1995

['John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Adrianna

Here are my answers to your questions

 

--Question 1: What is your usual distance from pedal center to top of 
saddle?

Saddle Height (SH) is measured from the center of the BB spindle to the top 
of the saddle along the seat tube.   Not to a pedal located to some 
position in it’s rotation.  

 

 You can adjust the saddle so there is a slight bend in your leg when your 
on the saddle and the pedal is at 5 o’clock, but it is NOT Saddle Height.  
Pedal at 5 o’clock typically puts the crank arm parallel to the seat tube.

 

Grant Peterson has stated Saddle Height is related to PBH by  SH = PBH 
– 10 to 11 cm.  a few times in the Rivendell Readers.   For example, I’m 
5’7”, my PBH is 80.6cm and my SH is 70.5cm (set by someone watching pedal 
on my bike in a trainer).  This difference is 10.1cm, very close to Grant.

 

SO if you your PBH, you can get a good approximation of your SH.

 

A 5’5” person typically uses a 170mm (17cm) crank arm.  Even if you used a 
165mm arm, the distance is reduced by only 5mm (0.5cm) which is very small 
change compared to the 87cm distance from saddle to pedal given my 70cm SH 
and I use a 17cm crank arm.  Crank arm length is typically a fine tuning 
 adjustment

 

 

--Question 2: What is your usual top of saddle (at seat tube centerline) 
and handlebar heights?

BAR HEIGHT is typically referenced to the Top of the Saddle, not to the 
Ground.  Your bars are in 1 of 3 positions:

Bars BELOW the Saddle by XXcm

Bars EVEN with the Saddle, 0cm difference

Bars ABOVE the Saddle by XXcm

 

I keep my bars EVEN with the Saddle to 1cm BELOW the Saddle, depending on 
my fitness level.  I find I am comfortable in the drops and prefer the 
drops vs the brake hoods.

 

15 to 20 years ago Rivendell recommended bars even with saddle.  Now they 
say Bars above saddle.   I feel my setting (Even to 1cm Below) are within 
their recommendations.

 

The lower the bars, your muscles are mor effective, but there is more 
weight is on your hands and your hands can get numb.  The higher the bars 
are, less weight on the hands and you are more upright, but your muscles 
are less effective

 

If I read you diagram correctly, your bars are 3.5” (9cm) BELOW the Saddle 
(37” – 33.5”).  This is an extremely LOW bar position, typically used by 
the pros. 

 

-Question 3: What is your usual distance from top of saddle (at seat tube 
centerline) to handlebar center?

My distance (Saddle where ST would come through to center of the stem 
clamp) is 60.4cm on my 88 Voyageur (53.3cm STL, 54cm TTL, 74° STA, 71°HTA, 
71cm SH) with Bars EVEN with Saddle and 1 7cm stem length.   This along 
with a drop bar reach of 11.5cm (C-E) puts my back at a 45° or slightly 
higher position (back angle referenced to the horizontal).

 

This distance plus the Bar REACH results in your back at a certain angle to 
the horizontal.   Long distances result in LOW back angles and mor weight 
on your arms and hands,  Short distances result in HIGH back angles, you 
are more upright and less weight on arms and hands.  15 to 20 years ago 
Rivendell recommended a 45° back angle.  Now they recommend HIGHER angles, 
more upright. I am comfortable with 45°, but it’s a personal choice.

 

Additional Info

 

I calculated the distance from Saddle to stem clamp for a 50cm Ramboiulet 
since it’s STL and TTL matched the Road Standard.  The calculation assumes 
bars EVEN with Saddle and a horizontal TT.

 

Assumed a 69sm Saddle Height for you based on my 71cm and 5’7” height vs 
your 5’5”, a 7cm stem length and 26” x 32mm tires (radius = 31.6cm).   Here 
are the 50cm Ramboilett geo, the STL was increased 1.9cm due to the 2° 
upsloping TT, and assuming the geo table is Effective TTL

 

STL 51.9cm,  TTL 52cm,  STA 72.5°,  HTA 71°,  BBD 5.5cm,  Rake 4.25cm

 

Here are the results

Saddle to center of stem clamp,   59.0 cm

Trail,  6.4cm & Flop =2.0cm,  both match the geo table

Front Center,  56.3 cmYou will have 1.3cm of Toe Clip Overlap,  most 
early Rivendells do 

 

The minimum Saddle to stem distance would be 57.0 by using a 5cm stem 
(shortest available).

 

Based on this, this frame should fit you but you would need to determine 
your PBH, Saddle Height and what Saddle to stem clamp distance you need for 
a good back angle

 

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ

On Saturday, January 29, 2022 at 1:54:07 PM UTC-5 Adrianna T wrote:

> Joe was nice enough to help me mock-up the frame. Some notes:
>
> (I don’t have a bike right now so I don’t actually have the measurements, 
> but will probably ask a friend to help later)
>
> “ Here's a photo of the Rivendell mock-up, without bars anyway.
> I'm including my quick sketch of the frame layout.
> As set up, here are some measurements to ponder:
>
> From pedal center to top of saddle, inline with seat tube (with crank in 
> line with seat tube, not as shown): 34"
> If that Campagnolo seat post was lowered to the transition point from 
> elliptical to round (1.5" lower), 

Re: [RBW] Roadini heavy?

[nlerner]

I owned a Roadini for a relatively short time before selling it to someone 
on this list, I believe. I liked the aesthetics a lot, but did find it on 
the sluggish side and have other bikes that fit the “country bike” theme 
that I found myself riding instead. Previous to that, I owned a Romulus, 
which saw many miles and lots of brevet riding, but also was always a bit 
on the sluggish side, particularly when climbing. Still, it was a really 
comfortable rig, and well suited to distance riding as long as the hills 
weren’t too brutal. I sold that once I got a Black Mountain Road, which 
checks all of the boxes for me: great fit, room for 35mm tires, great 
climber, planes like the dickens, super comfortable and versatile. So no 
I’m Riv-less (even sold my ‘94 RB-T!), but I enjoy reading this list.

Neal Lerner
Brookline MA USA

On Saturday, January 29, 2022 at 1:46:17 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:

> The tubing spec needs to be matched well with the geometry to provide what 
> Jan calls planing - the flex in the frame needs to match your power output 
> and rhythm to give you a small but important "springboard" effect with each 
> pedal stroke, in order to feel fast.  It really has little to nothing to do 
> with the weight of the frame, but about how it is tuned to the rider.  
>
> However, Jan tends to think that this basically requires superlight 
> tubing, but I don't think that's quite true - I think the "rhythm" can be 
> found in multiples, like harmonics, but if the stiffness of your bike lands 
> between these harmonics, then it'll feel like you're trying to bounce on a 
> trampoline where it's out of sync with your jumps. My wild theory is that 
> the Rivendells that ride like magic despite being objectively quite 
> overbuilt for a "fast" bike manage to land in the next stiffer "harmonic" 
> for the average rider. I think my Sam does this for me and I think the 
> Roadini could very well end up in this zone too.  
>
> On Friday, 28 January 2022 at 13:21:45 UTC-8 kwi...@weimar.edu wrote:
>
>> The Roadini is a very nice looking bike, too.  I hope this does not sound 
>> superficial, but I enjoy the head badge, the decals, and the painted 
>> cutouts on the seat lug more than if it were just 2 pounds lighter!  Also, 
>> I rode a 'Redwood' (tall Romulus) frame back in the 2000's and really liked 
>> it, but the Roadini is a more advance frame design in general (long head 
>> tube, sloping top tube, wheel clearance, and more.).  I have an old Calfee 
>> carbon frame I got used.  It is very light.  But I hardly ride it.  Why? 
>>  Hard to say, but I suspect that it has a lot to do with how the Roadini 
>> feels 'planted' or secure (words fail me here), but on the human level, I 
>> just prefer the look of the Roadini-- it has character and a timeless 
>> beauty that makes the sum of all its parts more than just a 'fast bike', a 
>> 'super light frame', or even a practical 'get the job done' machine.  And, 
>> of course, it is always comfortable!  This is key: the Roadini does not 
>> cause neck pain, back pain, hand tingling or stress from the worry of going 
>> down if I hit a pot hole.   I won't be selling mine.
>>
>> On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 12:48:36 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Well said, Karl. Add to that the probably (I've not ridden one) 
>>> signature Rivendell handling of the Roadini* and the pros may well outweigh 
>>> the cons. And of course, weighing the balance between pros and cons is 
>>> largely a matter of individual taste.
>>>
>>> Patrick Moore, ruthlessly botton-trimming his replies, in ABQ, NM.
>>>
>>> * I certainly loved this in the customs, and found it in the Ram and 
>>> even in the Sam, tho' the same had too much wheel flop for my taste.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 1:31 PM Karl Wilcox  wrote:
>>>
 It might be helpful when considering a Roadini to observe that frame 
 stiffness or compliance are not the only things that matter.  I find my 
 Roadini stiffer than I prefer, but the
 Roadini offers other features that I just can't find in other 
 production frames.  For instance, the roadini fits me perfectly and I can 
 get my bars up higher without making the bicycle appear silly or handle 
 funny (my bars are exactly 1 inch below my saddle height).  Also, I can 
 ride 33c tires (I have the 2018 roadini), and the long wheelbase is 
 wonderful.  The Roadini is also versatile: I ride it on trails and on 
 pavement.  I can ride with fast club rides and I can do light touring, 
 too.  I have a 1977 custom Mercian that is wonderfully compliant, but on 
 fast descents it can be scary and it cannot carry any kind of load.  My 
 point is that the Roadini has many virtues, but no individual frame can be 
 any other frame. 

>>>

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[RBW] Re: FS - Used cockpit parts plus one pair shoes

['Bikie#4646' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Just to update my FS list, the following items have been sold:

Nitto / Grand Bois Randonneur Handlebar.

TRP RL950 Carbon CX top brake levers.

DiaCompe BL-07 Aero Brake Levers.

Many thanks all,
Paul Germain
Midlothian, Va.

On Friday, January 21, 2022 at 7:15:04 PM UTC-5 Bikie#4646 wrote:

> I'd like to put these used cockpit parts (and one pair of shoes) up for 
> your consideration. (Please excuse the double-post on another list.) Each 
> is a separate Flickr album. All items are used and condition is stated 
> below. Do not hesitate to contact me if you have questions. I can forward 
> shipping costs based on destination. (CONUS only, please.)Thanks,
> Paul Germain
> Midlothian, Va.
>
> Nitto Grand Randonneur 135 handlebar, used, like new. $50, plus shipping.
> 25.4 mm clamp size. (Will work for 26 mm with shims.) 45 cm measured at 
> drop ends; 37 cm at ramps, (C-to-C). Slight flare outward at drop ends. 
> Heat treated aluminum. Current Ben's Cycles internet price, $95, plus 
> shipping and tax.
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/bikecrazy-paul/albums/72177720295841319
>
> Nitto-made Grand Bois Randonneur handlebar, used, like new. $60, plus 
> shipping.
> 25.4 mm clamp size (26 mm will work with shims). 41 cm width, measured at 
> drop ends, 38 cm at ramps, (C-to-C). Slight flare outward at drop ends, 
> dramatic rise from clamp area. Current Rene Herse internet price, $129, 
> plus hipping and tax. Heat treated aluminum, Bright finish.
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/bikecrazy-paul/albums/72177720295841994
>
> Soma Urban Cross top (interrupter) brake levers, used, like new. $20, plus 
> shipping.
> Silver, standard 24 mm clamp (for 25.4 / 26 mm drop bars). Nicest CX-style 
> levers around! No scratches or scuffs. Current Modern Bike internet price, 
> $45, plus shipping and tax.
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/bikecrazy-paul/albums/72177720295843491
>
> TRP RL950 Carbon CX top brake levers. $25, plus shipping.
> CX-style (interrupter) levers, 24 mm clamp (for standard 25.4/26 mm bars) 
> 78 grams/pair. Very nice condition w/no scratches or scars.Universal Cycles 
> price $70, plus shipping and tax.
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/bikecrazy-paul/albums/72177720296025642
>
> DiaCompe BL-07 Aero style Brake Levers, $18, plus shipping.
> Drop bar aero brake levers, silver w/black hoods. In good working 
> condition with normal wear and minor scuffs, except tear underneath right 
> hood. (see image). Current Universal Cycles price, $44, plus shipping and 
> tax.
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/bikecrazy-paul/albums/72177720295842790
>
> Performance Forte' lugged mountain bike shoes. Size 44 / 10.5 -  $18, plus 
> shipping.
> In good condition with normal wear except for two of the metal cleats on 
> one shoes which need to be replaced. No charge for the Virginia dirt.
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/bikecrazy-paul/albums/72177720295872145
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Cold Weather Riding Gear

[George Schick]

Perhaps this link may be of use for those who like to ride in the Winter 
areas with corrosive elements on the streets.  John Allen (picking up and 
following after the late Sheldon Brown) has some excellent advice at: 
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/winter.html


On Saturday, January 29, 2022 at 11:34:09 AM UTC-6 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> I’m inspired. I don’t want to pay attention to tires and be switching them 
> out. And I have the only 3 bikes I care to own and I don’t want a beater to 
> ride. So, I will follow Liz’s excellent example and Just Ride. And clean 
> off the bike from time to time.
>
> I’m glad you love that Clem L - I just adore a Clem. Mine has slicks or 
> that’s the bike I’d likely take out in the snow. They worked great in the 
> desert, not in Michigan’s winter.
>
> Those wonderful gloves you mentioned must be discontinued. I’ll keep 
> looking. Thanks for your help!
>
> On Jan 29, 2022, at 10:30 AM, Liz Tilton  wrote:
>
> I commuted like that for about 10 years, but only 2 or 3 days each week. 
> :) I’m no longer at the same job and no longer ride to work, but those 
> years, if the weather was bad when it was time to leave home, I didn’t ride 
> my bike. If the weather was bad on my way home, I usually rode on home. So, 
> I’m not all that. 
>
>
> My final layers on top are almost always a Patagonia nano puff jacket and, 
> finally, a Carhartt high-visibility reflective vest. 
>
> I started off with a Bridgestone MB5 with some long-forgotten knobby 
> mountain-bike tires for this commute. Then, 15 years ago when I built up my 
> Atlantis, I rode it with run-of-the mill Continental Sport Contact tires (I 
> think)…nothing special AT ALL. Yes, I rode in salt, and if the parts or 
> frame got all gunked up, I hosed it and dried it off in my basement. I do 
> like a clean bike. :)
>
> When I say I Just Ride, I’m serious. I don’t pay much attention to tires 
> and never change them. And if the weather seems dangerous, I don’t ride. 
> And if the streets haven’t been plowed, I wait until they’ve been plowed. 
> Otherwise, I just ride what I’ve got and make the best of it. 
>
> My Atlantis still looks fantastic (probably because I wipe it down after 
> ugly-weather rides). I don’t have a collection of bicycles, so I ride what 
> I’ve got. Now, though, I’ve added a Clem L, and we’ve already traveled some 
> snowy territory, and I love it. 
>
>
> On Saturday, January 29, 2022 at 8:29:59 AM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> LIZ. 
>>
>> 26 mile round trip in Ohio winters??? We need YOU to write a thread about 
>> cold weather riding because you have got to be the expert. I have a wool 
>> balaclava from LL Bean for snowmobiling, so I’ll pull that out. The 
>> Descente gloves are not available on REI, so I’ll check elsewhere. What 
>> jacket are you wearing? OR are you just layering wool like Pam does?
>>
>> Also, I have other curiosities. What bike do you ride in these 
>> conditions? Do you have special tires? Does the salt wreck the 
>> bike/drivetrain? (People say I should ride a beater bike but I don’t want 
>> to. I just like riding my Rivs and I think I’m not going to be precious 
>> about the mermaid bike.) 
>>
>> Hats off to YOU, RivSister.
>> Leah
>>
>> On Jan 29, 2022, at 8:13 AM, Liz Tilton  wrote:
>>
>> I concur with Joyce’s list for cold-weather riding…lots of lightweight, 
>> base-layer wool and layers atop that. I’d add to her list these wonderful 
>> Descente wind-breaking gloves/mittens that I’ve worn for years. If 
>> necessary, I can slip a foot warmer in the mitten part for more toast. :) 
>> https://www.rei.com/product/776693/descente-wombat-full-finger-bike-gloves
>> . 
>>
>>
>> I carry extra foot warmers in my seat bag.
>>
>> I also wear a featherweight balaclava beneath my helmet…protects my face 
>> and keeps warmth from escaping my helmet. 
>>
>> This is how I’ve commuted 26-round-trip miles for years in all kinds of 
>> Ohio (gray and miserable) winters. To my mind, it’s okay if I get a little 
>> wet or a little cold or a little ready to be home because I’m usually out 
>> for only 1-1.5 hours at a time when it’s cold/snowy. I dislike riding for 
>> long stretches if it’s so cold that the water in my bottle grows colder and 
>> colder and then freezes. So I save the long rides for the other three 
>> seasons.
>>
>> And as much as I love and generally adhere to the Just Ride philosophy, I 
>> have to say that I shake my head at it when it comes to winter riding 
>> because it’s not as if most bicyclists in the country can slap on a cute 
>> cap or a pair of everyday shoes and take off during cold weather. It takes 
>> a lot of thinking and planning and money and experimentation to ride in 
>> Michigan in winter, and I tip my balaclava to you for tackling it, Leah. 
>> And Joyce. And my other Riv friends and sisters. 
>>
>> Liz 
>>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 11:49:07 PM UTC-5 JAS wrote:
>>
>>> So Leah, is there something wrong 

Re: [RBW] Roadini heavy?

[Jason Fuller]

The tubing spec needs to be matched well with the geometry to provide what 
Jan calls planing - the flex in the frame needs to match your power output 
and rhythm to give you a small but important "springboard" effect with each 
pedal stroke, in order to feel fast.  It really has little to nothing to do 
with the weight of the frame, but about how it is tuned to the rider.  

However, Jan tends to think that this basically requires superlight tubing, 
but I don't think that's quite true - I think the "rhythm" can be found in 
multiples, like harmonics, but if the stiffness of your bike lands between 
these harmonics, then it'll feel like you're trying to bounce on a 
trampoline where it's out of sync with your jumps. My wild theory is that 
the Rivendells that ride like magic despite being objectively quite 
overbuilt for a "fast" bike manage to land in the next stiffer "harmonic" 
for the average rider. I think my Sam does this for me and I think the 
Roadini could very well end up in this zone too.  

On Friday, 28 January 2022 at 13:21:45 UTC-8 kwi...@weimar.edu wrote:

> The Roadini is a very nice looking bike, too.  I hope this does not sound 
> superficial, but I enjoy the head badge, the decals, and the painted 
> cutouts on the seat lug more than if it were just 2 pounds lighter!  Also, 
> I rode a 'Redwood' (tall Romulus) frame back in the 2000's and really liked 
> it, but the Roadini is a more advance frame design in general (long head 
> tube, sloping top tube, wheel clearance, and more.).  I have an old Calfee 
> carbon frame I got used.  It is very light.  But I hardly ride it.  Why? 
>  Hard to say, but I suspect that it has a lot to do with how the Roadini 
> feels 'planted' or secure (words fail me here), but on the human level, I 
> just prefer the look of the Roadini-- it has character and a timeless 
> beauty that makes the sum of all its parts more than just a 'fast bike', a 
> 'super light frame', or even a practical 'get the job done' machine.  And, 
> of course, it is always comfortable!  This is key: the Roadini does not 
> cause neck pain, back pain, hand tingling or stress from the worry of going 
> down if I hit a pot hole.   I won't be selling mine.
>
> On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 12:48:36 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Well said, Karl. Add to that the probably (I've not ridden one) signature 
>> Rivendell handling of the Roadini* and the pros may well outweigh the cons. 
>> And of course, weighing the balance between pros and cons is largely a 
>> matter of individual taste.
>>
>> Patrick Moore, ruthlessly botton-trimming his replies, in ABQ, NM.
>>
>> * I certainly loved this in the customs, and found it in the Ram and even 
>> in the Sam, tho' the same had too much wheel flop for my taste.
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 1:31 PM Karl Wilcox  wrote:
>>
>>> It might be helpful when considering a Roadini to observe that frame 
>>> stiffness or compliance are not the only things that matter.  I find my 
>>> Roadini stiffer than I prefer, but the
>>> Roadini offers other features that I just can't find in other production 
>>> frames.  For instance, the roadini fits me perfectly and I can get my bars 
>>> up higher without making the bicycle appear silly or handle funny (my bars 
>>> are exactly 1 inch below my saddle height).  Also, I can ride 33c tires (I 
>>> have the 2018 roadini), and the long wheelbase is wonderful.  The Roadini 
>>> is also versatile: I ride it on trails and on pavement.  I can ride with 
>>> fast club rides and I can do light touring, too.  I have a 1977 custom 
>>> Mercian that is wonderfully compliant, but on fast descents it can be scary 
>>> and it cannot carry any kind of load.  My point is that the Roadini has 
>>> many virtues, but no individual frame can be any other frame. 
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Updates on, and further questions regarding the Riv Road Standard 1995

['John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Adrianna

 I believe the Road Standard will fit you and if anything the TT may be a 
bit short which can be corrected with a longer stem or drop bars with 
greater reach.  This is based on the following values for:

 Road Standard (RS) 50cm STL and 52cm TTL but the frame angles are not 
provided.   Let’s assume the frame angle are the same the 50cm 
Rambouillet.  This is reasonable since as Saturday Mike pointed out the 
50cm Ram and the RS are both 26” wheels and the Ram would be the closest 
Rivendell to the Road Standard.  Here is a summary of the RS and Ram 
geometries

 RS   ST 50cm  TTL 52cmSTA  Not Known 
   HTA  Not Know 

Ram   ST 50cm  TTL 52cmSTA  
72.5°HTA  71°

 Me and my bike:  I’m 5’7” (close to your 5’5”) and I have a 88 Voyageur 
which fits me well with a 7cm stem, 10.4 cm C-C reach drop bars (Rene Herse 
Radonneur), and bar center at same height as the saddle.  The Voyageur 
geometry is:

88 Voy   ST 21” CT (53.3cm)   TTL 54cmSTA 74°HTA 71°

 If we compare my 88 Voy to the 50cm Ram, only the STA is different and you 
sit further back on the Ram.   The difference is 1.3cm  (50 x (cos74 
-cos72.5)).

 This means I would need a 52.7cm TTL on the Ram to have the same fit as I 
have on the88 Voy.  The Ram has a 52cm TTL, which is less than what I need 
and I would probably use a 1cm longer stem (go from a 7cm stem to a 8cm 
stem) to obtain the same fit as I have on the 88 Voy.

So based on this the 50cm Road Standard would fit you with a 6 to 8 cm stem 
and drop bar with a 10 to 11 cm reach (C-C).

 5cm stems are readily available so you have margin if your arms are 
shorter than normal.

 Stems are available up to 12 cm, so you will always be able to get the 
setm length you need.

 If you used a Nitto Noddle, you would need a 1cm longer stem since the 
Noodle reach is about 1cm shorter than the RH Radonneur.

Hope this helps.   

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ

On Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 2:45:13 PM UTC-5 Adrianna T wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I went to see Joe B at the Marin Museum of Bicycling to see if I want the 
> Riv Road Standard bike frame.
>
> Details were somewhat unclear and as this group pointed out, it's hard to 
> tell size and fit when the bike is not built up.
>
> So further details are posted her (on my personal page):
>
> https://skinnylatte.notion.site/Riv-Bike-e56ddf417ee54e788e3a445eafc46f44
>
> Joe also called Grant and provided this update:
>
> " After talking with Grant, and trying a few more wheels, it appears the 
> frameset is for 26x1.4" wheels (MTB, 559 bead seat size). So tires would be 
> 35mm max, 32mm more like it. "Pre-1999 for sure," says Grant."
>
> My main question is: I previously thought this might be *just nice*, now I 
> am not so sure.
>
> Anyone see anything interesting about the new information here? I still 
> want it very badly of course, and that's maybe why I can't be objective 
> about it ;/
>

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[RBW] Re: Updates on, and further questions regarding the Riv Road Standard 1995

[Saturday Mark]

Adrianna,
I would submit that this bike is kinda small for you. Most gals 5'5" are 
more of a traditional size 51/52, and would have a longer top tube. The 
closest recent Riv would be the Rambouillet . Check out sizing specs etc on 
it, the 50 and 52 were the 26" wheel also. Grant would have told you to be 
on a 54. 

Possibly you could make it fit, but .something that fits most gals like 
this would end up with saddle pretty high relative to bars. Maybe good for 
road, but not so mush on gravel/dirt.

I think this is a gorgeous frameset and "worth" the money. To get something 
of this caliber made today would be pushing 3K. 

I would bet on the 125mm spacing being a typo, as 125mm was out of style 
for a long time before that. 

my .02 $




On Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 12:45:13 PM UTC-7 Adrianna T wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I went to see Joe B at the Marin Museum of Bicycling to see if I want the 
> Riv Road Standard bike frame.
>
> Details were somewhat unclear and as this group pointed out, it's hard to 
> tell size and fit when the bike is not built up.
>
> So further details are posted her (on my personal page):
>
> https://skinnylatte.notion.site/Riv-Bike-e56ddf417ee54e788e3a445eafc46f44
>
> Joe also called Grant and provided this update:
>
> " After talking with Grant, and trying a few more wheels, it appears the 
> frameset is for 26x1.4" wheels (MTB, 559 bead seat size). So tires would be 
> 35mm max, 32mm more like it. "Pre-1999 for sure," says Grant."
>
> My main question is: I previously thought this might be *just nice*, now I 
> am not so sure.
>
> Anyone see anything interesting about the new information here? I still 
> want it very badly of course, and that's maybe why I can't be objective 
> about it ;/
>

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Re: [RBW] Cold Weather Riding Gear

[Leah Peterson]

I’m inspired. I don’t want to pay attention to tires and be switching them out. 
And I have the only 3 bikes I care to own and I don’t want a beater to ride. 
So, I will follow Liz’s excellent example and Just Ride. And clean off the bike 
from time to time.

I’m glad you love that Clem L - I just adore a Clem. Mine has slicks or that’s 
the bike I’d likely take out in the snow. They worked great in the desert, not 
in Michigan’s winter.

Those wonderful gloves you mentioned must be discontinued. I’ll keep looking. 
Thanks for your help!

> On Jan 29, 2022, at 10:30 AM, Liz Tilton  wrote:
> 
> I commuted like that for about 10 years, but only 2 or 3 days each week. :) 
> I’m no longer at the same job and no longer ride to work, but those years, if 
> the weather was bad when it was time to leave home, I didn’t ride my bike. If 
> the weather was bad on my way home, I usually rode on home. So, I’m not all 
> that. 
> 
> My final layers on top are almost always a Patagonia nano puff jacket and, 
> finally, a Carhartt high-visibility reflective vest. 
> 
> I started off with a Bridgestone MB5 with some long-forgotten knobby 
> mountain-bike tires for this commute. Then, 15 years ago when I built up my 
> Atlantis, I rode it with run-of-the mill Continental Sport Contact tires (I 
> think)…nothing special AT ALL. Yes, I rode in salt, and if the parts or frame 
> got all gunked up, I hosed it and dried it off in my basement. I do like a 
> clean bike. :)
> 
> When I say I Just Ride, I’m serious. I don’t pay much attention to tires and 
> never change them. And if the weather seems dangerous, I don’t ride. And if 
> the streets haven’t been plowed, I wait until they’ve been plowed. Otherwise, 
> I just ride what I’ve got and make the best of it. 
> 
> My Atlantis still looks fantastic (probably because I wipe it down after 
> ugly-weather rides). I don’t have a collection of bicycles, so I ride what 
> I’ve got. Now, though, I’ve added a Clem L, and we’ve already traveled some 
> snowy territory, and I love it. 
> 
> 
>> On Saturday, January 29, 2022 at 8:29:59 AM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>> LIZ. 
>> 
>> 26 mile round trip in Ohio winters??? We need YOU to write a thread about 
>> cold weather riding because you have got to be the expert. I have a wool 
>> balaclava from LL Bean for snowmobiling, so I’ll pull that out. The Descente 
>> gloves are not available on REI, so I’ll check elsewhere. What jacket are 
>> you wearing? OR are you just layering wool like Pam does?
>> 
>> Also, I have other curiosities. What bike do you ride in these conditions? 
>> Do you have special tires? Does the salt wreck the bike/drivetrain? (People 
>> say I should ride a beater bike but I don’t want to. I just like riding my 
>> Rivs and I think I’m not going to be precious about the mermaid bike.) 
>> 
>> Hats off to YOU, RivSister.
>> Leah
>> 
 On Jan 29, 2022, at 8:13 AM, Liz Tilton  wrote:
 
>>> I concur with Joyce’s list for cold-weather riding…lots of lightweight, 
>>> base-layer wool and layers atop that. I’d add to her list these wonderful 
>>> Descente wind-breaking gloves/mittens that I’ve worn for years. If 
>>> necessary, I can slip a foot warmer in the mitten part for more toast. :) 
>>> https://www.rei.com/product/776693/descente-wombat-full-finger-bike-gloves. 
>> 
>>> 
>>> I carry extra foot warmers in my seat bag.
>>> 
>>> I also wear a featherweight balaclava beneath my helmet…protects my face 
>>> and keeps warmth from escaping my helmet. 
>>> 
>>> This is how I’ve commuted 26-round-trip miles for years in all kinds of 
>>> Ohio (gray and miserable) winters. To my mind, it’s okay if I get a little 
>>> wet or a little cold or a little ready to be home because I’m usually out 
>>> for only 1-1.5 hours at a time when it’s cold/snowy. I dislike riding for 
>>> long stretches if it’s so cold that the water in my bottle grows colder and 
>>> colder and then freezes. So I save the long rides for the other three 
>>> seasons.
>>> 
>>> And as much as I love and generally adhere to the Just Ride philosophy, I 
>>> have to say that I shake my head at it when it comes to winter riding 
>>> because it’s not as if most bicyclists in the country can slap on a cute 
>>> cap or a pair of everyday shoes and take off during cold weather. It takes 
>>> a lot of thinking and planning and money and experimentation to ride in 
>>> Michigan in winter, and I tip my balaclava to you for tackling it, Leah. 
>>> And Joyce. And my other Riv friends and sisters. 
>>> 
>>> Liz 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
> On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 11:49:07 PM UTC-5 JAS wrote:
> So Leah, is there something wrong with owning two jackets...one for each 
> bike color combination?  
> 
> Joyce (who loves jackets, owns many and should start sending one to the 
> thrift shop when a new one is acquired).
> 
>> On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 5:29:37 PM UTC-8 WilletM wrote:
>> 
>> Another enthusiastic vote 

Re: [RBW] Cold Weather Riding Gear

[Liz Tilton]

I commuted like that for about 10 years, but only 2 or 3 days each week. :) 
I’m no longer at the same job and no longer ride to work, but those years, 
if the weather was bad when it was time to leave home, I didn’t ride my 
bike. If the weather was bad on my way home, I usually rode on home. So, 
I’m not all that. 

My final layers on top are almost always a Patagonia nano puff jacket and, 
finally, a Carhartt high-visibility reflective vest. 

I started off with a Bridgestone MB5 with some long-forgotten knobby 
mountain-bike tires for this commute. Then, 15 years ago when I built up my 
Atlantis, I rode it with run-of-the mill Continental Sport Contact tires (I 
think)…nothing special AT ALL. Yes, I rode in salt, and if the parts or 
frame got all gunked up, I hosed it and dried it off in my basement. I do 
like a clean bike. :)

When I say I Just Ride, I’m serious. I don’t pay much attention to tires 
and never change them. And if the weather seems dangerous, I don’t ride. 
And if the streets haven’t been plowed, I wait until they’ve been plowed. 
Otherwise, I just ride what I’ve got and make the best of it. 

My Atlantis still looks fantastic (probably because I wipe it down after 
ugly-weather rides). I don’t have a collection of bicycles, so I ride what 
I’ve got. Now, though, I’ve added a Clem L, and we’ve already traveled some 
snowy territory, and I love it. 


On Saturday, January 29, 2022 at 8:29:59 AM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> LIZ. 
>
> 26 mile round trip in Ohio winters??? We need YOU to write a thread about 
> cold weather riding because you have got to be the expert. I have a wool 
> balaclava from LL Bean for snowmobiling, so I’ll pull that out. The 
> Descente gloves are not available on REI, so I’ll check elsewhere. What 
> jacket are you wearing? OR are you just layering wool like Pam does?
>
> Also, I have other curiosities. What bike do you ride in these conditions? 
> Do you have special tires? Does the salt wreck the bike/drivetrain? (People 
> say I should ride a beater bike but I don’t want to. I just like riding my 
> Rivs and I think I’m not going to be precious about the mermaid bike.) 
>
> Hats off to YOU, RivSister.
> Leah
>
> On Jan 29, 2022, at 8:13 AM, Liz Tilton  wrote:
>
> I concur with Joyce’s list for cold-weather riding…lots of lightweight, 
> base-layer wool and layers atop that. I’d add to her list these wonderful 
> Descente wind-breaking gloves/mittens that I’ve worn for years. If 
> necessary, I can slip a foot warmer in the mitten part for more toast. :) 
> https://www.rei.com/product/776693/descente-wombat-full-finger-bike-gloves
> . 
>
>
> I carry extra foot warmers in my seat bag.
>
> I also wear a featherweight balaclava beneath my helmet…protects my face 
> and keeps warmth from escaping my helmet. 
>
> This is how I’ve commuted 26-round-trip miles for years in all kinds of 
> Ohio (gray and miserable) winters. To my mind, it’s okay if I get a little 
> wet or a little cold or a little ready to be home because I’m usually out 
> for only 1-1.5 hours at a time when it’s cold/snowy. I dislike riding for 
> long stretches if it’s so cold that the water in my bottle grows colder and 
> colder and then freezes. So I save the long rides for the other three 
> seasons.
>
> And as much as I love and generally adhere to the Just Ride philosophy, I 
> have to say that I shake my head at it when it comes to winter riding 
> because it’s not as if most bicyclists in the country can slap on a cute 
> cap or a pair of everyday shoes and take off during cold weather. It takes 
> a lot of thinking and planning and money and experimentation to ride in 
> Michigan in winter, and I tip my balaclava to you for tackling it, Leah. 
> And Joyce. And my other Riv friends and sisters. 
>
> Liz 
>
>
>
> On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 11:49:07 PM UTC-5 JAS wrote:
>
>> So Leah, is there something wrong with owning two jackets...one for each 
>> bike color combination?  
>>
>> Joyce (who loves jackets, owns many and should start sending one to the 
>> thrift shop when a new one is acquired).
>>
>> On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 5:29:37 PM UTC-8 WilletM wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Another enthusiastic vote for Showers Pass Elite and Refuge (and other 
>>> models) jackets as outer layers in cold/dry conditions.  Winter riding in 
>>> western Colorado at 6000' of altitude is exceptionally comfortable, whether 
>>> it's snowing (which is basically dry conditions) or actually dry outside.  
>>> I do find that the pit zips alone are not sufficient for ventilation 
>>> (staying in that target zone of cool and dry) in the temperature range of 
>>> 20-35 F. where I most prefer to ride.  So I usually am working the front 
>>> zipper of my shell (and also a half-zip 100 weight fleece underneath) up 
>>> and down as needed to keep my upper torso cool (and therefore dry) rather 
>>> than warm.
>>>
>>> As I believe others have mentioned, ventilating the sleeves (and keeping 
>>> your 

[RBW] Re: FS: a few assorted parts - Nitto, Crust, RH...

[Patch T]

*Updates, price drops*

   1. *SOLD -  Nitto x Crust Shaka handlebar*: 540mm, 26.0 clamp, silver, 
   great condition - $100
   2. *Crust 90 deg high stack fillet-brazed clear coat stem*, discontinued 
   model, 80mm reach, 75mm stack, 1 1/8, 31.8 clamp - $95
   3. *SOLD - Roadrunner Bags Jumbo Jammer*, orange - some grease stains 
   but fabric is in great shape, all straps there, never cut - $150
   4. *Avocet Racing 1 saddle*, excellent condition, 9.5/10 - $70
   5. *Sugino VX double crankset,* 130 bcd, 170mm, with or w/o rings, great 
   condition - $40
   6. *SOLD - Sugino GP Triple crankset* 110/74, 175mm, with or w/o rings, 
   really nice - $60?
   7. *SOLD - Nitto Technomic long/tall stem* 90mm, 25.4 clamp, scuffed up 
   but hardware is nice - $40
   8. *Nitto Technomic long/tall stem* 110mm, 25.4 clamp, scuffed up but 
   hardware is nice - $30
   9. *Nitto MCR65 black threadless stem*, 100mm length, 35deg, 1 1/8" 
   clamp, 25.4, peeling sticker, one small scratch in the paint, good hardware 
   - $55
   10. *Velo Orange Grand Cru setback seatpost*, scratches from 
   installation - $20
   11. *Thomson Elite setback seatpost*, silver 330mm uncut, 27.2 scratches 
   from installation - $50
   12. *Rene Herse Hurricane Ridge EL* 700 x 42mm blackwall knobbies, 
   ridden ~200 mi with tubes - $140 for both


On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 11:00:10 AM UTC-5 Patch T wrote:

> Did a bad job editing today - that Crust stem is 1 1/8 with a 31.8 clamp, 
> non-faceplate singlebolt.
>
> On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 9:54:41 AM UTC-5 Patch T wrote:
>
>> Shoot - forgot some items were alreaday spoken for. Sorry!
>>
>>1. *Nitto x Crust Shaka handlebar*: 540mm, 26.0 clamp, silver, great 
>>condition - $100
>>2. *Crust 90 deg high stack fillet-brazed clear coat stem*, 
>>discontinued model, 80mm reach, 75mm stack - $100
>>3. *Roadrunner Bags Jumbo Jammer*, orange - some grease stains but 
>>fabric is in great shape, all straps there, never cut - $150
>>4. *Avocet Racing 1 saddle*, excellent condition, 9.5/10 - $70
>>5. *Sugino VX double crankset,* 130 bcd, 170mm, with or w/o rings, 
>>great condition - $40
>>6. *Sugino GP Triple crankset* 110/74, 175mm, with or w/o rings, 
>>really nice - $60?
>>7. *Nitto Technomic long/tall stem* 90mm, 25.4 clamp, scuffed up but 
>>hardware is nice - $40
>>8. *Nitto Technomic long/tall stem* 110mm, 25.4 clamp, scuffed up but 
>>hardware is nice - $30
>>9. *Nitto MCR65 black threadless stem*, 100mm length, 35deg, 1 1/8" 
>>clamp, 25.4, peeling sticker, one small scratch in the paint, good 
>> hardware 
>>- $60
>>10. *Velo Orange Grand Cru setback seatpost*, very scratched - $25
>>11. *Thomson Elite setback seatpost*, silver 330mm uncut, 27.2 
>>scratches - $50
>>12. *Rene Herse Hurricane Ridge EL* 700 x 42mm blackwall knobbies, 
>>ridden ~200 mi with tubes - $140 for both
>>
>>
>> On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 9:52:15 AM UTC-5 Patch T wrote:
>>
>>> Some items for sale from Brooklyn, NY (11211).
>>> Prices do not include shipping.
>>> Please feel free to make offers.
>>> Contact off-list.
>>> Ask for photos.
>>> Thank you for looking!
>>>
>>>
>>>1. *Nitto x Crust Shaka handlebar*: 540mm, 26.0 clamp, silver, great 
>>>condition - $100
>>>2. *Crust 90 deg high stack fillet-brazed clear coat stem*, 
>>>discontinued model, 80mm reach, 75mm stack - $100
>>>3. *Roadrunner Bags Jumbo Jammer*, orange - some grease stains but 
>>>fabric is in great shape, all straps there, never cut - $150
>>>4. *Avocet Racing 1 saddle*, excellent condition, 9.5/10 - $70
>>>5. *Sugino VX double crankset,* 130 bcd, 170mm, with or w/o rings, 
>>>great condition - $40
>>>6. *Sugino GP Triple crankset* 110/74, 175mm, with or w/o rings, 
>>>really nice - $60?
>>>7. *Nitto Technomic long/tall stem* 90mm, 25.4 clamp, scuffed up but 
>>>hardware is nice - $40
>>>8. *Nitto Technomic long/tall stem* 110mm, 25.4 clamp, scuffed up 
>>>but hardware is nice - $30
>>>9. *Nitto MCR65 black threadless stem*, 100mm length, 35deg, 1 1/8" 
>>>clamp, 25.4, peeling sticker, one small scratch in the paint, good 
>>> hardware 
>>>- $60
>>>10. *Velo Orange Grand Cru setback seatpost*, very scratched - $25
>>>11. *Thomson Elite setback seatpost*, silver 330mm uncut, 27.2 
>>>scratches - $50
>>>12. *Rene Herse Hurricane Ridge EL* 700 x 42mm blackwall knobbies, 
>>>ridden ~200 mi with tubes - $140 for both
>>>
>>> Open to partial/complete trades; looking for:
>>>
>>>- Fabio's Chest, small
>>>- Brooks titanium saddle
>>>- Paul Minimotos
>>>- silver 27.0 seatpost
>>>- 1" threaded caliper brake fork with ~200mm steertube and clearance 
>>>for 700 x 33mm tires.
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: FS: a few assorted parts - Nitto, Crust, RH...

[Patch T]

*Updates, price drops*

   1. *SOLD -  Nitto x Crust Shaka handlebar*: 540mm, 26.0 clamp, silver, 
   great condition - $100
   2. *Crust 90 deg high stack fillet-brazed clear coat stem*, discontinued 
   model, 80mm reach, 75mm stack, 1 1/8, 31.8 clamp - $95
   3. *SOLD - Roadrunner Bags Jumbo Jammer*, orange - some grease stains 
   but fabric is in great shape, all straps there, never cut - $150
   4. *Avocet Racing 1 saddle*, excellent condition, 9.5/10 - $70
   5. *Sugino VX double crankset,* 130 bcd, 170mm, with or w/o rings, great 
   condition - $40
   6. *SOLD - Sugino GP Triple crankset* 110/74, 175mm, with or w/o rings, 
   really nice - $60?
   7. *SOLD - Nitto Technomic long/tall stem* 90mm, 25.4 clamp, scuffed up 
   but hardware is nice - $40
   8. *Nitto Technomic long/tall stem* 110mm, 25.4 clamp, scuffed up but 
   hardware is nice - $30
   9. *Nitto MCR65 black threadless stem*, 100mm length, 35deg, 1 1/8" 
   clamp, 25.4, peeling sticker, one small scratch in the paint, good hardware 
   - $55
   10. *Velo Orange Grand Cru setback seatpost*, very scratched - $20
   11. *Thomson Elite setback seatpost*, silver 330mm uncut, 27.2 scratches 
   - $50
   12. *Rene Herse Hurricane Ridge EL* 700 x 42mm blackwall knobbies, 
   ridden ~200 mi with tubes - $140 for both


On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 11:00:10 AM UTC-5 Patch T wrote:

> Did a bad job editing today - that Crust stem is 1 1/8 with a 31.8 clamp, 
> non-faceplate singlebolt.
>
> On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 9:54:41 AM UTC-5 Patch T wrote:
>
>> Shoot - forgot some items were alreaday spoken for. Sorry!
>>
>>1. *Nitto x Crust Shaka handlebar*: 540mm, 26.0 clamp, silver, great 
>>condition - $100
>>2. *Crust 90 deg high stack fillet-brazed clear coat stem*, 
>>discontinued model, 80mm reach, 75mm stack - $100
>>3. *Roadrunner Bags Jumbo Jammer*, orange - some grease stains but 
>>fabric is in great shape, all straps there, never cut - $150
>>4. *Avocet Racing 1 saddle*, excellent condition, 9.5/10 - $70
>>5. *Sugino VX double crankset,* 130 bcd, 170mm, with or w/o rings, 
>>great condition - $40
>>6. *Sugino GP Triple crankset* 110/74, 175mm, with or w/o rings, 
>>really nice - $60?
>>7. *Nitto Technomic long/tall stem* 90mm, 25.4 clamp, scuffed up but 
>>hardware is nice - $40
>>8. *Nitto Technomic long/tall stem* 110mm, 25.4 clamp, scuffed up but 
>>hardware is nice - $30
>>9. *Nitto MCR65 black threadless stem*, 100mm length, 35deg, 1 1/8" 
>>clamp, 25.4, peeling sticker, one small scratch in the paint, good 
>> hardware 
>>- $60
>>10. *Velo Orange Grand Cru setback seatpost*, very scratched - $25
>>11. *Thomson Elite setback seatpost*, silver 330mm uncut, 27.2 
>>scratches - $50
>>12. *Rene Herse Hurricane Ridge EL* 700 x 42mm blackwall knobbies, 
>>ridden ~200 mi with tubes - $140 for both
>>
>>
>> On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 9:52:15 AM UTC-5 Patch T wrote:
>>
>>> Some items for sale from Brooklyn, NY (11211).
>>> Prices do not include shipping.
>>> Please feel free to make offers.
>>> Contact off-list.
>>> Ask for photos.
>>> Thank you for looking!
>>>
>>>
>>>1. *Nitto x Crust Shaka handlebar*: 540mm, 26.0 clamp, silver, great 
>>>condition - $100
>>>2. *Crust 90 deg high stack fillet-brazed clear coat stem*, 
>>>discontinued model, 80mm reach, 75mm stack - $100
>>>3. *Roadrunner Bags Jumbo Jammer*, orange - some grease stains but 
>>>fabric is in great shape, all straps there, never cut - $150
>>>4. *Avocet Racing 1 saddle*, excellent condition, 9.5/10 - $70
>>>5. *Sugino VX double crankset,* 130 bcd, 170mm, with or w/o rings, 
>>>great condition - $40
>>>6. *Sugino GP Triple crankset* 110/74, 175mm, with or w/o rings, 
>>>really nice - $60?
>>>7. *Nitto Technomic long/tall stem* 90mm, 25.4 clamp, scuffed up but 
>>>hardware is nice - $40
>>>8. *Nitto Technomic long/tall stem* 110mm, 25.4 clamp, scuffed up 
>>>but hardware is nice - $30
>>>9. *Nitto MCR65 black threadless stem*, 100mm length, 35deg, 1 1/8" 
>>>clamp, 25.4, peeling sticker, one small scratch in the paint, good 
>>> hardware 
>>>- $60
>>>10. *Velo Orange Grand Cru setback seatpost*, very scratched - $25
>>>11. *Thomson Elite setback seatpost*, silver 330mm uncut, 27.2 
>>>scratches - $50
>>>12. *Rene Herse Hurricane Ridge EL* 700 x 42mm blackwall knobbies, 
>>>ridden ~200 mi with tubes - $140 for both
>>>
>>> Open to partial/complete trades; looking for:
>>>
>>>- Fabio's Chest, small
>>>- Brooks titanium saddle
>>>- Paul Minimotos
>>>- silver 27.0 seatpost
>>>- 1" threaded caliper brake fork with ~200mm steertube and clearance 
>>>for 700 x 33mm tires.
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Updates on, and further questions regarding the Riv Road Standard 1995

['John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch]

The *most important parameter* to consider is "does it fit you"??   Since 
it's a Rivendell, your PBH and the PBH which Grant designed it for should 
answer most of that.  The only other consideration is your Reach vs the 
Road Standard frame angles and TTL.   Reach is typically fine tuned with 
handlebar reach and stem length.

You could easily have the rear spread to 126mm for a 7 speed cassette.  
Trouble is finding a 126 OLD rear hub. The 531 fork may ride slightly 
better than a AHH but it''s doubtful anyone could feel it.

The asking price of this Road Standard is $300 more than a new MIT AHH 
($1450 vs $1750).   Both would need all the parts (the RS throws in a 
headset and a BB, but BB are less than $30 and HS are not expensive), so 
you would be better to get modern 9 speed parts.

Old bikes, while nice, could be a money drain and a headache to find 
parts.  If it was me, I'll go with the MIT AHH, get the parts you want, 
have them build it, and ride it lot.

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

On Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 2:45:13 PM UTC-5 Adrianna T wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I went to see Joe B at the Marin Museum of Bicycling to see if I want the 
> Riv Road Standard bike frame.
>
> Details were somewhat unclear and as this group pointed out, it's hard to 
> tell size and fit when the bike is not built up.
>
> So further details are posted her (on my personal page):
>
> https://skinnylatte.notion.site/Riv-Bike-e56ddf417ee54e788e3a445eafc46f44
>
> Joe also called Grant and provided this update:
>
> " After talking with Grant, and trying a few more wheels, it appears the 
> frameset is for 26x1.4" wheels (MTB, 559 bead seat size). So tires would be 
> 35mm max, 32mm more like it. "Pre-1999 for sure," says Grant."
>
> My main question is: I previously thought this might be *just nice*, now I 
> am not so sure.
>
> Anyone see anything interesting about the new information here? I still 
> want it very badly of course, and that's maybe why I can't be objective 
> about it ;/
>

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Re: [RBW] Cold Weather Riding Gear

[Leah Peterson]

LIZ. 

26 mile round trip in Ohio winters??? We need YOU to write a thread about cold 
weather riding because you have got to be the expert. I have a wool balaclava 
from LL Bean for snowmobiling, so I’ll pull that out. The Descente gloves are 
not available on REI, so I’ll check elsewhere. What jacket are you wearing? OR 
are you just layering wool like Pam does?

Also, I have other curiosities. What bike do you ride in these conditions? Do 
you have special tires? Does the salt wreck the bike/drivetrain? (People say I 
should ride a beater bike but I don’t want to. I just like riding my Rivs and I 
think I’m not going to be precious about the mermaid bike.) 

Hats off to YOU, RivSister.
Leah

> On Jan 29, 2022, at 8:13 AM, Liz Tilton  wrote:
> 
> I concur with Joyce’s list for cold-weather riding…lots of lightweight, 
> base-layer wool and layers atop that. I’d add to her list these wonderful 
> Descente wind-breaking gloves/mittens that I’ve worn for years. If necessary, 
> I can slip a foot warmer in the mitten part for more toast. :) 
> https://www.rei.com/product/776693/descente-wombat-full-finger-bike-gloves. 
> 
> I carry extra foot warmers in my seat bag.
> 
> I also wear a featherweight balaclava beneath my helmet…protects my face and 
> keeps warmth from escaping my helmet. 
> 
> This is how I’ve commuted 26-round-trip miles for years in all kinds of Ohio 
> (gray and miserable) winters. To my mind, it’s okay if I get a little wet or 
> a little cold or a little ready to be home because I’m usually out for only 
> 1-1.5 hours at a time when it’s cold/snowy. I dislike riding for long 
> stretches if it’s so cold that the water in my bottle grows colder and colder 
> and then freezes. So I save the long rides for the other three seasons.
> 
> And as much as I love and generally adhere to the Just Ride philosophy, I 
> have to say that I shake my head at it when it comes to winter riding because 
> it’s not as if most bicyclists in the country can slap on a cute cap or a 
> pair of everyday shoes and take off during cold weather. It takes a lot of 
> thinking and planning and money and experimentation to ride in Michigan in 
> winter, and I tip my balaclava to you for tackling it, Leah. And Joyce. And 
> my other Riv friends and sisters. 
> 
> Liz 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 11:49:07 PM UTC-5 JAS wrote:
>> So Leah, is there something wrong with owning two jackets...one for each 
>> bike color combination?  
>> 
>> Joyce (who loves jackets, owns many and should start sending one to the 
>> thrift shop when a new one is acquired).
>> 
>>> On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 5:29:37 PM UTC-8 WilletM wrote:
>>> 
>>> Another enthusiastic vote for Showers Pass Elite and Refuge (and other 
>>> models) jackets as outer layers in cold/dry conditions.  Winter riding in 
>>> western Colorado at 6000' of altitude is exceptionally comfortable, whether 
>>> it's snowing (which is basically dry conditions) or actually dry outside.  
>>> I do find that the pit zips alone are not sufficient for ventilation 
>>> (staying in that target zone of cool and dry) in the temperature range of 
>>> 20-35 F. where I most prefer to ride.  So I usually am working the front 
>>> zipper of my shell (and also a half-zip 100 weight fleece underneath) up 
>>> and down as needed to keep my upper torso cool (and therefore dry) rather 
>>> than warm.
>>> 
>>> As I believe others have mentioned, ventilating the sleeves (and keeping 
>>> your arms/layers dry) is typically more difficult due to limited options 
>>> for directing airflow (compared to the torso).  I mostly address this by 
>>> keeping my torso/layers extra cool/dry when I feel my sleeves starting to 
>>> get clammy.  
>>> 
>>> It certainly is true, at least in my experience over quite a few years, 
>>> that it is MUCH more challenging to stay cool during cold weather riding 
>>> conditions than it is to stay warm.  Warm is usually just a zipped-up 
>>> zipper or amped-up heartrate away, whereas cooling off and drying out takes 
>>> time and patience and practice to get the correct "recipe" to match the air 
>>> temp outside.  But in the end, the (often rather expensive, admittedly) 
>>> accumulation of clothing and gear, and the numerous test runs and 
>>> trial/error periods of getting to the point of dressing properly for the 
>>> NOW temperature/conditions and taking a few extra pieces to address the 
>>> LATER temp/conditions is really, really rewarding.  A sunny day at 25 
>>> degrees and a smooth asphalt shoulder along the highway is, for me, about 
>>> as good as it gets for mid-winter bicycling.
>>> 
>>> Willet M.
>>> Carbondale, CO
>>> 
 On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 4:33:19 PM UTC-7 JAS wrote:
 I like my Showers Pass Elite jacket for cold weather and rain.  Yes, it 
 can be vented under the arms and has a cape-like back vent for air flow.  
 If I don't open the arm vents, it can build up a little moisture, but 
 nothing that makes 

[RBW] Re: Updates on, and further questions regarding the Riv Road Standard 1995

[E. Ricky Creek]

I would pass on this frame and buy a complete early Trek 520, 620, or 720, 
all of which can be had for $400-$500. There is a 50cm 620 on SF Craigslist 
right now. Then keep an eye out for a Toyo/Waterford Atlantis, which will 
become your forever bike! I had an 88 520 that took 35mm tires and fenders 
without issue. That said, nobody can tell you what your perfect "forever" 
bike will be. I've gone through 20 bikes before settling on 2 perfect 
bicycles (Waterford Hilborne, Waterford Altlantis), and one fun bike 
(Simpleone). 
Also, consider the trauma of getting a bicycle stolen recently and how you 
will treat a bicycle that could easily have $3000 invested in it, plus the 
rarity factor. I'd never want to park that thing outside. 
All that said, if it fits you and you like riding it, then it is the best 
bike for you. To paraphrase Grant from years ago, the best bike is the one 
you ride. 

On Saturday, January 29, 2022 at 1:11:37 AM UTC-6 Ian A wrote:

> It's none of my business! But, considering you've had gravel bikes etc. 
> you might find a ~27mm tire rather narrow and perhaps limiting, especially 
> on a 559 wheel. I say this as someone who is very attached to a Marinoni 
> Turismo touring bike that carried me through Central and South America, but 
> I wish the frame and fork would accommodate a wider tire than 34mm with 
> fenders (it's a tight fit under fenders). I'm in the process of setting the 
> Marinoni up for touring again (it has been in a more stripped down 
> configuration), but I also find myself looking for a used Long Haul Trucker 
> that takes 26"x2"+ rubber under fenders.  The problem all started when I 
> bought a Rawland rSogn running 40mm x 650b Hetre tires and was blown away 
> by the benefits of a good quality wider tire. I think 38mm has become my 
> minimum width for any new bike that comes into my life.
>
> IanA Alberta Canada
>
> On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 10:43:55 PM UTC-7 Paul Brodek wrote:
>
>> T'were I you I'd want to check out the fit with wheels/tires before 
>> committing. Dealing with parts build/etc is a lot easier post-purchase than 
>> dealing with a sub-optimal fit. There are loads of crappy 26" wheels/tires 
>> you can get for cheap that would work to check fit, but whether seller will 
>> let you put wheels into a pristine frameset may be an issue.
>>
>> I still have issues with the overall value, but I'm not the one that 
>> wants it badly, so my issues don't matter much.
>>
>> But I will say that for the same/similar money, you can get yourself a 
>> brandy-new handbuilt steel frameset in a size/configuration that will fit 
>> you fer sure. It won't be lugged, you'd have to be happy with a tig'd 
>> frame, and it may not ring similar bells and release as heavy an endorphin 
>> dose as a minty vintage Riv. But it may fit better, have better clearances, 
>> and might even ride better. I suspect there are a bunch of builders who 
>> could do this, but I don't have many in my mental Rolodex. I can start with 
>> Jeff Lyon, who's been building since the '70s, and has gotten very 
>> excellent feedback on his entry-level L'avecaise frames:
>>
>> https://www.lyonsport.com/frames-0   [$1,100 for unfiled tig'd frame, 
>> $285 for matching fork]
>>
>> Paul Brodek
>> Hillsdale, NJ USA
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 2:45:13 PM UTC-5 Adrianna T wrote:
>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> I went to see Joe B at the Marin Museum of Bicycling to see if I want 
>>> the Riv Road Standard bike frame.
>>>
>>> Details were somewhat unclear and as this group pointed out, it's hard 
>>> to tell size and fit when the bike is not built up.
>>>
>>> So further details are posted her (on my personal page):
>>>
>>> https://skinnylatte.notion.site/Riv-Bike-e56ddf417ee54e788e3a445eafc46f44
>>>
>>> Joe also called Grant and provided this update:
>>>
>>> " After talking with Grant, and trying a few more wheels, it appears the 
>>> frameset is for 26x1.4" wheels (MTB, 559 bead seat size). So tires would be 
>>> 35mm max, 32mm more like it. "Pre-1999 for sure," says Grant."
>>>
>>> My main question is: I previously thought this might be *just nice*, now 
>>> I am not so sure.
>>>
>>> Anyone see anything interesting about the new information here? I still 
>>> want it very badly of course, and that's maybe why I can't be objective 
>>> about it ;/
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Cold Weather Riding Gear

[Liz Tilton]

I concur with Joyce’s list for cold-weather riding…lots of lightweight, 
base-layer wool and layers atop that. I’d add to her list these wonderful 
Descente wind-breaking gloves/mittens that I’ve worn for years. If 
necessary, I can slip a foot warmer in the mitten part for more toast. 
:) https://www.rei.com/product/776693/descente-wombat-full-finger-bike-gloves. 

I carry extra foot warmers in my seat bag.

I also wear a featherweight balaclava beneath my helmet…protects my face 
and keeps warmth from escaping my helmet. 

This is how I’ve commuted 26-round-trip miles for years in all kinds of 
Ohio (gray and miserable) winters. To my mind, it’s okay if I get a little 
wet or a little cold or a little ready to be home because I’m usually out 
for only 1-1.5 hours at a time when it’s cold/snowy. I dislike riding for 
long stretches if it’s so cold that the water in my bottle grows colder and 
colder and then freezes. So I save the long rides for the other three 
seasons.

And as much as I love and generally adhere to the Just Ride philosophy, I 
have to say that I shake my head at it when it comes to winter riding 
because it’s not as if most bicyclists in the country can slap on a cute 
cap or a pair of everyday shoes and take off during cold weather. It takes 
a lot of thinking and planning and money and experimentation to ride in 
Michigan in winter, and I tip my balaclava to you for tackling it, Leah. 
And Joyce. And my other Riv friends and sisters. 

Liz 



On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 11:49:07 PM UTC-5 JAS wrote:

> So Leah, is there something wrong with owning two jackets...one for each 
> bike color combination?  
>
> Joyce (who loves jackets, owns many and should start sending one to the 
> thrift shop when a new one is acquired).
>
> On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 5:29:37 PM UTC-8 WilletM wrote:
>
>>
>> Another enthusiastic vote for Showers Pass Elite and Refuge (and other 
>> models) jackets as outer layers in cold/dry conditions.  Winter riding in 
>> western Colorado at 6000' of altitude is exceptionally comfortable, whether 
>> it's snowing (which is basically dry conditions) or actually dry outside.  
>> I do find that the pit zips alone are not sufficient for ventilation 
>> (staying in that target zone of cool and dry) in the temperature range of 
>> 20-35 F. where I most prefer to ride.  So I usually am working the front 
>> zipper of my shell (and also a half-zip 100 weight fleece underneath) up 
>> and down as needed to keep my upper torso cool (and therefore dry) rather 
>> than warm.
>>
>> As I believe others have mentioned, ventilating the sleeves (and keeping 
>> your arms/layers dry) is typically more difficult due to limited options 
>> for directing airflow (compared to the torso).  I mostly address this by 
>> keeping my torso/layers extra cool/dry when I feel my sleeves starting to 
>> get clammy.  
>>
>> It certainly is true, at least in my experience over quite a few years, 
>> that it is MUCH more challenging to stay cool during cold weather riding 
>> conditions than it is to stay warm.  Warm is usually just a zipped-up 
>> zipper or amped-up heartrate away, whereas cooling off and drying out takes 
>> time and patience and practice to get the correct "recipe" to match the air 
>> temp outside.  But in the end, the (often rather expensive, admittedly) 
>> accumulation of clothing and gear, and the numerous test runs and 
>> trial/error periods of getting to the point of dressing properly for the 
>> NOW temperature/conditions and taking a few extra pieces to address the 
>> LATER temp/conditions is really, really rewarding.  A sunny day at 25 
>> degrees and a smooth asphalt shoulder along the highway is, for me, about 
>> as good as it gets for mid-winter bicycling.
>>
>> Willet M.
>> Carbondale, CO
>>
>> On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 4:33:19 PM UTC-7 JAS wrote:
>>
>>> I like my Showers Pass Elite jacket for cold weather and rain.  Yes, it 
>>> can be vented under the arms and has a cape-like back vent for air flow.  
>>> If I don't open the arm vents, it can build up a little moisture, but 
>>> nothing that makes me cold.  If it's super cold, I use a very heavy wool 
>>> Patagonia crew neck base layer I got years ago to wear under my dry suit 
>>> for kayaking, but it would probably be overkill for folks who run hot.  
>>>
>>> I use the fanny pack trick when it's really cold and windy.  I don't 
>>> have a "pants-gap" issue; instead, I just like all the help I can get to 
>>> keep the cold out.  Good point about tucking a couple of the top layers 
>>> into your pants and having a waist-band high enough to do so.  
>>>
>>> One more tip:  A stretchy Gor-Tex helmet cover keeps the rain out and 
>>> blocks the helmet vent holes.  Combined with a thin wool beanie, my head 
>>> and ears stay warm.  It looks a bit like mushroom-head, but that's the 
>>> price I pay for warmth!   
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 11:17:53 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 

Re: [RBW] Cold Weather Riding Gear

[Leah Peterson]

Oh, Joyce, Leah Peterson ought to dial it back. But, that raspberry coat is 
really lovely. Tell me about sizing - the reviews on size were mixed. Some tiny 
women (5’2”, 120 lb) ordered a medium so they would have room for layers. I’m 
5’6”, 133 and usually a small. How do you find your jacket to run size-wise? 
Should I order up? Maybe some other RivSisters have the same question, so I’m 
posting this publicly instead of a PM.
Thanks!
Leah



> On Jan 28, 2022, at 11:49 PM, JAS  wrote:
> 
> So Leah, is there something wrong with owning two jackets...one for each 
> bike color combination?  
> 
> Joyce (who loves jackets, owns many and should start sending one to the 
> thrift shop when a new one is acquired).
> 
>> On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 5:29:37 PM UTC-8 WilletM wrote:
>> 
>> Another enthusiastic vote for Showers Pass Elite and Refuge (and other 
>> models) jackets as outer layers in cold/dry conditions.  Winter riding in 
>> western Colorado at 6000' of altitude is exceptionally comfortable, whether 
>> it's snowing (which is basically dry conditions) or actually dry outside.  I 
>> do find that the pit zips alone are not sufficient for ventilation (staying 
>> in that target zone of cool and dry) in the temperature range of 20-35 F. 
>> where I most prefer to ride.  So I usually am working the front zipper of my 
>> shell (and also a half-zip 100 weight fleece underneath) up and down as 
>> needed to keep my upper torso cool (and therefore dry) rather than warm.
>> 
>> As I believe others have mentioned, ventilating the sleeves (and keeping 
>> your arms/layers dry) is typically more difficult due to limited options for 
>> directing airflow (compared to the torso).  I mostly address this by keeping 
>> my torso/layers extra cool/dry when I feel my sleeves starting to get 
>> clammy.  
>> 
>> It certainly is true, at least in my experience over quite a few years, that 
>> it is MUCH more challenging to stay cool during cold weather riding 
>> conditions than it is to stay warm.  Warm is usually just a zipped-up zipper 
>> or amped-up heartrate away, whereas cooling off and drying out takes time 
>> and patience and practice to get the correct "recipe" to match the air temp 
>> outside.  But in the end, the (often rather expensive, admittedly) 
>> accumulation of clothing and gear, and the numerous test runs and 
>> trial/error periods of getting to the point of dressing properly for the NOW 
>> temperature/conditions and taking a few extra pieces to address the LATER 
>> temp/conditions is really, really rewarding.  A sunny day at 25 degrees and 
>> a smooth asphalt shoulder along the highway is, for me, about as good as it 
>> gets for mid-winter bicycling.
>> 
>> Willet M.
>> Carbondale, CO
>> 
>>> On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 4:33:19 PM UTC-7 JAS wrote:
>>> I like my Showers Pass Elite jacket for cold weather and rain.  Yes, it can 
>>> be vented under the arms and has a cape-like back vent for air flow.  If I 
>>> don't open the arm vents, it can build up a little moisture, but nothing 
>>> that makes me cold.  If it's super cold, I use a very heavy wool Patagonia 
>>> crew neck base layer I got years ago to wear under my dry suit for 
>>> kayaking, but it would probably be overkill for folks who run hot.  
>>> 
>>> I use the fanny pack trick when it's really cold and windy.  I don't have a 
>>> "pants-gap" issue; instead, I just like all the help I can get to keep the 
>>> cold out.  Good point about tucking a couple of the top layers into your 
>>> pants and having a waist-band high enough to do so.  
>>> 
>>> One more tip:  A stretchy Gor-Tex helmet cover keeps the rain out and 
>>> blocks the helmet vent holes.  Combined with a thin wool beanie, my head 
>>> and ears stay warm.  It looks a bit like mushroom-head, but that's the 
>>> price I pay for warmth!   
>>> 
>>> 
 On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 11:17:53 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
 Joyce and others: a question and some remarks.
 
> On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 11:49 AM JAS  wrote:
> *Showers Pass jacket with pit zips for core ventilation.  
 
 1. I always assumed that SP jackets were meant for rain. Question: Do they 
 serve well (because of pit zips) as an outer layer and insulator for 
 dry-weather cold-temperature (32 south to teens) over wool layers? 
 
> *Outdoor Research winter gloves with long gauntlet
 
 ODR or other, certainly yes to long gauntlets. I very often will wear 
 repurposed street gloves (like the Bundeswehr pair) that are very nice but 
 leave a 1/2" gap between end of cuff and beginning of glove; not nice at 
 25*!
  
> wearing a fanny pack or waist pack will also help keep the cold from 
> coming up the bottom of your jacket
 
 Rant begins! Cycling bottoms, tights or pants, should have waists high 
 enough in the back that even when in the hooks of a drop bar the waistband 
 does not separate from your top 

[RBW] Re: trip report: Virginia to Walnut Creek on my Atlantis

[tgc]

2011.  A bit tardy.  

On Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 10:29:16 PM UTC-5 Mike Godwin wrote:

> Nice write-up Tom. 2011 or 2021?  Either way it appears to have been a 
> great trip. I'm looking forward to my cross-country jaunt.
>
> Mike SLO CA
>
> On Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 11:45:00 AM UTC-8 tgc wrote:
>
>> http://tomheadswest.blogspot.com/
>>
>>

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