[RBW] Re: Flat Pedal Users: Favorite size/shape?

[Garth]

Do you add grease to your Vice pedals John ?  I always add grease to any 
pedal, open them up, slather some grease on the axle and slide the body 
back on the excess oozes out the axle side. I have 2 pairs of Vice and 
they've been flawless. Before these I did this with Wellgo MG-1's.  

I wear size 14 shoes and the Vice size and shape works great with the shoes 
I wear. I pedal near midfoot, not totally. A longer platform would not 
necessarily be any better. That's what always struck me about Pedal 
Innovations. I already pedalled mid foot, my feet were already 
"supported"...(as if any other pedal doesn't offer support !).  What they 
neglect in their "science", is using *short cranks along with a midfoot 
stroke*. With 185mm cranks it didn't work for me, too much of a reach 
despite a lowered saddle, awkward.  With 170 . a little better but 
still ... nope. Then I tried 152/150's.. ahhh .. swet spot of 
both midoot power and pedal speed.  As the French say back in the day  
soo-play ... soo-play ! 

On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 9:24:43 PM UTC-4 John Bokman wrote:

> Hi all.
> I've been riding VP Vice pedals for a few years now. It took a long while 
> (aprx. a year) to get used to riding flats, coming from Speedplay Frogs. 
> Finally, it took, and I'm happy on the flats for my commuter (Sam Hill).
>
> However, the Vice have developed play, rattle a bit, and generally feel 
> gritty, and I have been experimenting with different ideas. I've recently 
> used the old MKS Touring pedals, and RMX sneaker pedals. These are okay, 
> but what I've discovered is that for my riding,  flats without connection 
> (no clips/straps, powergrips) feel better underfoot with a fairly large 
> platform, and low stack height,  like the Vice. And yet I know many of you 
> enjoy the Riv-approved MKS Gamma, lambda, and Allways models. All of these 
> appear to be taller, and all are narrower than the vice. And yet...I 
> wonder: how big is big enough? I'm not racing downhill, fully padded and 
> helmeted, on a double boinger, like my neice. I just ride my bike here and 
> there, long distances, when time allows.
>
> I always want to support Riv when possible. But I am looking at many other 
> pedals that Riv does not sell. What are some of your favorites, and why? 
> For what use? If you use the aforementioned MKS pedals, what is your 
> opinion of them? Do you like the size/shape? I'm wondering if the length of 
> the pedal is more important than the width. The Gamma, Lambda, and Allways, 
> for instance, are all longer than the Vice, while being slimmer. 
>
> Thanks.
> John
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: ISO/WTB: Albatross bars, DA barend shifters, Simworks stem...

[JohnS]

FWIW: The Soma Oxford is a good substitute for the Albatross. I got one 
when Riv was sold out of their Albatross.  Nearly the exact same shape, 
takes bar ends. The only difference that I can tell is the rise is slightly 
less and the finish isn't quite as nice. Only $80 new, got to like that. 
Unfortunately only in black today, I wasn't able to add the silver to the 
basket.

https://www.somafabshop.com/shop/product/soma-handlebar-oxford-2768?category=782

JohnS

On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 4:39:03 PM UTC-4 phoen...@gmail.com wrote:

> Shifters have been sourced, thanks Lance! Still looking for the rest. 
>
> The heat treated Albatross bars, (or Nitto B352) and maybe some cork grips 
> would be the next items at the top of my want/need list.
>
> On Saturday, March 12, 2022 at 1:42:46 PM UTC-8 Todd G wrote:
>
>> Looking for a few items for a couple different builds. 
>>
>> - Nitto /Rivendell Albatross bars, preferably heat treated
>> - Nitto Technonomic quill stem, 120mm (planning on pairing these with the 
>> Albatross bars)
>> - Dura Ace 9 speed bar-end shifters
>> - Sim Works Rhonda stem, 100mm, polished
>>
>> If you have any of this stuff shoot me an message, thanks!
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Flat Pedal Users: Favorite size/shape?

[Johnny Alien]

Crank Stamp 1 pedals are my absolute favorite after trying a bunch of 
different flat pedals. They are light, come in two sizes, are super grippy 
and have tons of great colors. Totally serviceable and affordable too. If 
you must have metal or a fancier version there are more expensive options 
in the stamp line but I really like the low end composite ones.

On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 4:17:51 AM UTC-4 Garth wrote:

> Do you add grease to your Vice pedals John ?  I always add grease to any 
> pedal, open them up, slather some grease on the axle and slide the body 
> back on the excess oozes out the axle side. I have 2 pairs of Vice and 
> they've been flawless. Before these I did this with Wellgo MG-1's.  
>
> I wear size 14 shoes and the Vice size and shape works great with the 
> shoes I wear. I pedal near midfoot, not totally. A longer platform would 
> not necessarily be any better. That's what always struck me about Pedal 
> Innovations. I already pedalled mid foot, my feet were already 
> "supported"...(as if any other pedal doesn't offer support !).  What they 
> neglect in their "science", is using *short cranks along with a midfoot 
> stroke*. With 185mm cranks it didn't work for me, too much of a reach 
> despite a lowered saddle, awkward.  With 170 . a little better but 
> still ... nope. Then I tried 152/150's.. ahhh .. swet spot of 
> both midoot power and pedal speed.  As the French say back in the day  
> soo-play ... soo-play ! 
>
> On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 9:24:43 PM UTC-4 John Bokman wrote:
>
>> Hi all.
>> I've been riding VP Vice pedals for a few years now. It took a long while 
>> (aprx. a year) to get used to riding flats, coming from Speedplay Frogs. 
>> Finally, it took, and I'm happy on the flats for my commuter (Sam Hill).
>>
>> However, the Vice have developed play, rattle a bit, and generally feel 
>> gritty, and I have been experimenting with different ideas. I've recently 
>> used the old MKS Touring pedals, and RMX sneaker pedals. These are okay, 
>> but what I've discovered is that for my riding,  flats without connection 
>> (no clips/straps, powergrips) feel better underfoot with a fairly large 
>> platform, and low stack height,  like the Vice. And yet I know many of you 
>> enjoy the Riv-approved MKS Gamma, lambda, and Allways models. All of these 
>> appear to be taller, and all are narrower than the vice. And yet...I 
>> wonder: how big is big enough? I'm not racing downhill, fully padded and 
>> helmeted, on a double boinger, like my neice. I just ride my bike here and 
>> there, long distances, when time allows.
>>
>> I always want to support Riv when possible. But I am looking at many 
>> other pedals that Riv does not sell. What are some of your favorites, and 
>> why? For what use? If you use the aforementioned MKS pedals, what is your 
>> opinion of them? Do you like the size/shape? I'm wondering if the length of 
>> the pedal is more important than the width. The Gamma, Lambda, and Allways, 
>> for instance, are all longer than the Vice, while being slimmer. 
>>
>> Thanks.
>> John
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Flat Pedal Users: Favorite size/shape?

[lconley]

I have several pairs of the VP "Thin Gripsters" in colors, many pairs of 
the MKS RMS "Sneaker" pedals (best bang for the buck in silver pedals and 
they have reflectors), tried and sold the Catalyst pedals a few years back, 
several pairs of Deity TMACs in colors, one pair of MKS Lambda "Grip 
Kings", one pair of Ergon PC2 Wide pedals, one pair of VO Sabots, one pair 
of Shimano Saints, one pair of Chromag Scarabs (polished silver on my 
Rivendell Custom), one pair of Speedplay Drilliums, and many others 
(Lyotard Berthet, MKS Urban, etc. in the parts stash).
I have short wide feet - 9  with very high arches (I am 6' tall), so 
width is the most important thing, but it is important that the width be at 
the ball of my foot, over the axle, that is why I have never been a fan of 
the MKS Grip King / Grip Monarch style pedals (narrow where I want wide) 
and have gravitated to the Deity TMAC and Chromag Scarabs. The VO Sabots 
have been workhorses also - the thinnest that still take reflectors.
When I was younger, I rode barefoot, 1st on "RatTrap" pedals (think MKS 
Touring, but sharper edges), then on Campagnolo Record, then on Phil Wood 
Platform pedals, all with toe clips and straps (still have at least one of 
all three). I got used to having the ball of my foot over the axle and that 
is my default position. The Ergons are best for barefoot followed by the 
Phil Woods.
Lately I find myself moving the ball of my foot farther forward (maybe I 
abandoned the Catalysts too soon). I may be doing this because I have 
started to lower my seat - partly to make it easier to swing my leg over 
the bike, partly to make it easier to mount the seat from a stop 
(step-through doesn't help on the mount from a stop). Thinner pedals also 
help with getting the seat lower.
Pedals are one of the three contact points with the bike along with the 
saddle and the handlebars, and just as important and just as personal of a 
choice.
The Ergon PC2s are very comfortable, the problem is that they are not 
silver and are ugly, ugly, ugly (and no longer made), but they are growing 
on me and starting to look better.
I have been wanting to try the Crust MKS Gorditos as something that may 
pass Eroica event rules - they look like large versions of the old RatTraps.

Laing
Delray Beach FL

On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 9:24:43 PM UTC-4 John Bokman wrote:

> Hi all.
> I've been riding VP Vice pedals for a few years now. It took a long while 
> (aprx. a year) to get used to riding flats, coming from Speedplay Frogs. 
> Finally, it took, and I'm happy on the flats for my commuter (Sam Hill).
>
> However, the Vice have developed play, rattle a bit, and generally feel 
> gritty, and I have been experimenting with different ideas. I've recently 
> used the old MKS Touring pedals, and RMX sneaker pedals. These are okay, 
> but what I've discovered is that for my riding,  flats without connection 
> (no clips/straps, powergrips) feel better underfoot with a fairly large 
> platform, and low stack height,  like the Vice. And yet I know many of you 
> enjoy the Riv-approved MKS Gamma, lambda, and Allways models. All of these 
> appear to be taller, and all are narrower than the vice. And yet...I 
> wonder: how big is big enough? I'm not racing downhill, fully padded and 
> helmeted, on a double boinger, like my neice. I just ride my bike here and 
> there, long distances, when time allows.
>
> I always want to support Riv when possible. But I am looking at many other 
> pedals that Riv does not sell. What are some of your favorites, and why? 
> For what use? If you use the aforementioned MKS pedals, what is your 
> opinion of them? Do you like the size/shape? I'm wondering if the length of 
> the pedal is more important than the width. The Gamma, Lambda, and Allways, 
> for instance, are all longer than the Vice, while being slimmer. 
>
> Thanks.
> John
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Flat Pedal Users: Favorite size/shape?

[Richard Rose]

I’ve not yet read all of the responses, so apologies if I am repeating. I have 
converted to flats exclusively and have not been attached to any bike for 5 or 
6 years. Part of this was my interest in the catalyst pedal. I’ve still not 
tried the catalyst, but I have adopted the mid foot position - it really works 
for me.
All things considered my favorite “sticky” flat is the Kona WahWah 2. The 
composite version is under $50.00 & sticks like glue to my 5/10 shoes for 
serious MTB use. The metal version is beautiful and costs a lot more. What I 
love is how BIG it is! Almost as long as a catalyst but noticeably wider. I can 
stomp my size 9.5 shoe anywhere I want & am good to go. I also quite like the 
DMR Vault, but wish it were as big as the Kona.
That said, my current love affair is with the Simworks MKS “Bubbly” pedal. This 
is the pedal on my Clem Smith Jr. It is big enough, not particularly sticky, 
and looks & feels like jewelry on this bike. It works perfectly on the Clem for 
all of the riding I do on it. 
Hope this helps.
Ps; mid foot works for me on cranks ranging from 165 - 175.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 17, 2022, at 4:17 AM, Garth  wrote:
> 
> Do you add grease to your Vice pedals John ?  I always add grease to any 
> pedal, open them up, slather some grease on the axle and slide the body back 
> on the excess oozes out the axle side. I have 2 pairs of Vice and they've 
> been flawless. Before these I did this with Wellgo MG-1's.  
> 
> I wear size 14 shoes and the Vice size and shape works great with the shoes I 
> wear. I pedal near midfoot, not totally. A longer platform would not 
> necessarily be any better. That's what always struck me about Pedal 
> Innovations. I already pedalled mid foot, my feet were already 
> "supported"...(as if any other pedal doesn't offer support !).  What they 
> neglect in their "science", is using short cranks along with a midfoot 
> stroke. With 185mm cranks it didn't work for me, too much of a reach despite 
> a lowered saddle, awkward.  With 170 . a little better but still ... 
> nope. Then I tried 152/150's.. ahhh .. swet spot of both midoot 
> power and pedal speed.  As the French say back in the day  soo-play ... 
> soo-play ! 
> 
>> On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 9:24:43 PM UTC-4 John Bokman wrote:
>> Hi all.
>> I've been riding VP Vice pedals for a few years now. It took a long while 
>> (aprx. a year) to get used to riding flats, coming from Speedplay Frogs. 
>> Finally, it took, and I'm happy on the flats for my commuter (Sam Hill).
>> 
>> However, the Vice have developed play, rattle a bit, and generally feel 
>> gritty, and I have been experimenting with different ideas. I've recently 
>> used the old MKS Touring pedals, and RMX sneaker pedals. These are okay, but 
>> what I've discovered is that for my riding,  flats without connection (no 
>> clips/straps, powergrips) feel better underfoot with a fairly large 
>> platform, and low stack height,  like the Vice. And yet I know many of you 
>> enjoy the Riv-approved MKS Gamma, lambda, and Allways models. All of these 
>> appear to be taller, and all are narrower than the vice. And yet...I wonder: 
>> how big is big enough? I'm not racing downhill, fully padded and helmeted, 
>> on a double boinger, like my neice. I just ride my bike here and there, long 
>> distances, when time allows.
>> 
>> I always want to support Riv when possible. But I am looking at many other 
>> pedals that Riv does not sell. What are some of your favorites, and why? For 
>> what use? If you use the aforementioned MKS pedals, what is your opinion of 
>> them? Do you like the size/shape? I'm wondering if the length of the pedal 
>> is more important than the width. The Gamma, Lambda, and Allways, for 
>> instance, are all longer than the Vice, while being slimmer. 
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> John
>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: [RBW] ISO 27.5 wheel set and brakes

[Richard Rose]

What are you working on Andrew?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 16, 2022, at 11:09 AM, Andrew Huston 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hoping to source a nice 27.5 rim brake set. Ideally cliffhangers. 100/135 
> spaced. 
> Also if anyone has some cool XTR v brakes I wold be interested as well. 
> 
> Andrew in Michigan
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Re: [RBW] Re: Flat Pedal Users: Favorite size/shape?

[John G.]

Someone on iBob recommended DMR Vaults for people with larger feet. I put a 
set of them on my new Homer and I love them.

On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 8:50:31 AM UTC-4 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> I’ve not yet read all of the responses, so apologies if I am repeating. I 
> have converted to flats exclusively and have not been attached to any bike 
> for 5 or 6 years. Part of this was my interest in the catalyst pedal. I’ve 
> still not tried the catalyst, but I have adopted the mid foot position - it 
> really works for me.
> All things considered my favorite “sticky” flat is the Kona WahWah 2. The 
> composite version is under $50.00 & sticks like glue to my 5/10 shoes for 
> serious MTB use. The metal version is beautiful and costs a lot more. What 
> I love is how BIG it is! Almost as long as a catalyst but noticeably wider. 
> I can stomp my size 9.5 shoe anywhere I want & am good to go. I also quite 
> like the DMR Vault, but wish it were as big as the Kona.
> That said, my current love affair is with the Simworks MKS “Bubbly” pedal. 
> This is the pedal on my Clem Smith Jr. It is big enough, not particularly 
> sticky, and looks & feels like jewelry on this bike. It works perfectly on 
> the Clem for all of the riding I do on it. 
> Hope this helps.
> Ps; mid foot works for me on cranks ranging from 165 - 175.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 17, 2022, at 4:17 AM, Garth  wrote:
>
> Do you add grease to your Vice pedals John ?  I always add grease to any 
> pedal, open them up, slather some grease on the axle and slide the body 
> back on the excess oozes out the axle side. I have 2 pairs of Vice and 
> they've been flawless. Before these I did this with Wellgo MG-1's.  
>
>
> I wear size 14 shoes and the Vice size and shape works great with the 
> shoes I wear. I pedal near midfoot, not totally. A longer platform would 
> not necessarily be any better. That's what always struck me about Pedal 
> Innovations. I already pedalled mid foot, my feet were already 
> "supported"...(as if any other pedal doesn't offer support !).  What they 
> neglect in their "science", is using *short cranks along with a midfoot 
> stroke*. With 185mm cranks it didn't work for me, too much of a reach 
> despite a lowered saddle, awkward.  With 170 . a little better but 
> still ... nope. Then I tried 152/150's.. ahhh .. swet spot of 
> both midoot power and pedal speed.  As the French say back in the day  
> soo-play ... soo-play ! 
>
> On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 9:24:43 PM UTC-4 John Bokman wrote:
>
>> Hi all.
>> I've been riding VP Vice pedals for a few years now. It took a long while 
>> (aprx. a year) to get used to riding flats, coming from Speedplay Frogs. 
>> Finally, it took, and I'm happy on the flats for my commuter (Sam Hill).
>>
>> However, the Vice have developed play, rattle a bit, and generally feel 
>> gritty, and I have been experimenting with different ideas. I've recently 
>> used the old MKS Touring pedals, and RMX sneaker pedals. These are okay, 
>> but what I've discovered is that for my riding,  flats without connection 
>> (no clips/straps, powergrips) feel better underfoot with a fairly large 
>> platform, and low stack height,  like the Vice. And yet I know many of you 
>> enjoy the Riv-approved MKS Gamma, lambda, and Allways models. All of these 
>> appear to be taller, and all are narrower than the vice. And yet...I 
>> wonder: how big is big enough? I'm not racing downhill, fully padded and 
>> helmeted, on a double boinger, like my neice. I just ride my bike here and 
>> there, long distances, when time allows.
>>
>> I always want to support Riv when possible. But I am looking at many 
>> other pedals that Riv does not sell. What are some of your favorites, and 
>> why? For what use? If you use the aforementioned MKS pedals, what is your 
>> opinion of them? Do you like the size/shape? I'm wondering if the length of 
>> the pedal is more important than the width. The Gamma, Lambda, and Allways, 
>> for instance, are all longer than the Vice, while being slimmer. 
>>
>> Thanks.
>> John
>>
>>
>> -- 
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>  
> 
> .
>
>

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[RBW] Let's talk about the All Rounder

[Sean Steinle]

I apologize if this has already been discussed, but I honestly can't find 
much about the All Rounder, in the way of ride reports, reviews, etc. It 
seems to be a Holy Grail bike for several, and I'm curious, is it simply 
the fact that they're rare and hard to find now, or is there truly 
something special about it? 

I remember Grant talking about the old Bridgestones in an article I came 
across, and his sentiment was essentially 'They're fine bikes, but they 
don't stack up against Rivs'. At least part of his reasoning was that he'd 
continued to refine with Rivendell, and the improvements were drastic 
enough that he felt the Rivs were in a different league. This makes me 
wonder if Grant would have a similar feeling about the All Rounder. I'd 
love to hear from those who own/have owned one. What's the verdict, is it 
truly one of the best Rivs out there? Worth the price of admission if one 
is lucky enough to find one in their size?

Thanks for humoring me :)
Sean in Kansas

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Re: [RBW] Re: Flat Pedal Users: Favorite size/shape?

[David Person]

I started with VP Vise when I moved to flat pedals 7 years ago.  A few 
years ago I've moved to Catalyst pedals (like Jay above).  They are made 
for Cycling Innovations by VP, but CI sells rebuild kits should the need 
arise.  I'm not a high milage rider, but so far no issues with the pedals.  
I like the shape of the platform.

David

On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 6:32:06 AM UTC-7 John G. wrote:

> Someone on iBob recommended DMR Vaults for people with larger feet. I put 
> a set of them on my new Homer and I love them.
>
> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 8:50:31 AM UTC-4 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I’ve not yet read all of the responses, so apologies if I am repeating. I 
>> have converted to flats exclusively and have not been attached to any bike 
>> for 5 or 6 years. Part of this was my interest in the catalyst pedal. I’ve 
>> still not tried the catalyst, but I have adopted the mid foot position - it 
>> really works for me.
>> All things considered my favorite “sticky” flat is the Kona WahWah 2. The 
>> composite version is under $50.00 & sticks like glue to my 5/10 shoes for 
>> serious MTB use. The metal version is beautiful and costs a lot more. What 
>> I love is how BIG it is! Almost as long as a catalyst but noticeably wider. 
>> I can stomp my size 9.5 shoe anywhere I want & am good to go. I also quite 
>> like the DMR Vault, but wish it were as big as the Kona.
>> That said, my current love affair is with the Simworks MKS “Bubbly” 
>> pedal. This is the pedal on my Clem Smith Jr. It is big enough, not 
>> particularly sticky, and looks & feels like jewelry on this bike. It works 
>> perfectly on the Clem for all of the riding I do on it. 
>> Hope this helps.
>> Ps; mid foot works for me on cranks ranging from 165 - 175.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Mar 17, 2022, at 4:17 AM, Garth  wrote:
>>
>> Do you add grease to your Vice pedals John ?  I always add grease to any 
>> pedal, open them up, slather some grease on the axle and slide the body 
>> back on the excess oozes out the axle side. I have 2 pairs of Vice and 
>> they've been flawless. Before these I did this with Wellgo MG-1's.  
>>
>>
>> I wear size 14 shoes and the Vice size and shape works great with the 
>> shoes I wear. I pedal near midfoot, not totally. A longer platform would 
>> not necessarily be any better. That's what always struck me about Pedal 
>> Innovations. I already pedalled mid foot, my feet were already 
>> "supported"...(as if any other pedal doesn't offer support !).  What they 
>> neglect in their "science", is using *short cranks along with a midfoot 
>> stroke*. With 185mm cranks it didn't work for me, too much of a reach 
>> despite a lowered saddle, awkward.  With 170 . a little better but 
>> still ... nope. Then I tried 152/150's.. ahhh .. swet spot of 
>> both midoot power and pedal speed.  As the French say back in the day  
>> soo-play ... soo-play ! 
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 9:24:43 PM UTC-4 John Bokman wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all.
>>> I've been riding VP Vice pedals for a few years now. It took a long 
>>> while (aprx. a year) to get used to riding flats, coming from Speedplay 
>>> Frogs. Finally, it took, and I'm happy on the flats for my commuter (Sam 
>>> Hill).
>>>
>>> However, the Vice have developed play, rattle a bit, and generally feel 
>>> gritty, and I have been experimenting with different ideas. I've recently 
>>> used the old MKS Touring pedals, and RMX sneaker pedals. These are okay, 
>>> but what I've discovered is that for my riding,  flats without connection 
>>> (no clips/straps, powergrips) feel better underfoot with a fairly large 
>>> platform, and low stack height,  like the Vice. And yet I know many of you 
>>> enjoy the Riv-approved MKS Gamma, lambda, and Allways models. All of these 
>>> appear to be taller, and all are narrower than the vice. And yet...I 
>>> wonder: how big is big enough? I'm not racing downhill, fully padded and 
>>> helmeted, on a double boinger, like my neice. I just ride my bike here and 
>>> there, long distances, when time allows.
>>>
>>> I always want to support Riv when possible. But I am looking at many 
>>> other pedals that Riv does not sell. What are some of your favorites, and 
>>> why? For what use? If you use the aforementioned MKS pedals, what is your 
>>> opinion of them? Do you like the size/shape? I'm wondering if the length of 
>>> the pedal is more important than the width. The Gamma, Lambda, and Allways, 
>>> for instance, are all longer than the Vice, while being slimmer. 
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>  

[RBW] Re: Flat Pedal Users: Favorite size/shape?

[John Bokman]

Yes, I did grease theses once already.  Grease is inexpensive, so of 
course, I could regrease them.  As for the Catalyst,  I don't want to go 
there for a few reasons:
1. I already experience toe overlap (fenders on my 700c Sam) at times, and 
the length of the pedal is way longer than the Vice.
2. I don't like riding with my foot so far forward of the axle. In other 
words, I'm not an arch-pedaler, which is what the Catalyst calls for, 
unless I'm mistaken.
3. I'm not convinced I need something that long. Again, how long is long 
enough?

On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 1:17:51 AM UTC-7 Garth wrote:

> Do you add grease to your Vice pedals John ?  I always add grease to any 
> pedal, open them up, slather some grease on the axle and slide the body 
> back on the excess oozes out the axle side. I have 2 pairs of Vice and 
> they've been flawless. Before these I did this with Wellgo MG-1's.  
>
> I wear size 14 shoes and the Vice size and shape works great with the 
> shoes I wear. I pedal near midfoot, not totally. A longer platform would 
> not necessarily be any better. That's what always struck me about Pedal 
> Innovations. I already pedalled mid foot, my feet were already 
> "supported"...(as if any other pedal doesn't offer support !).  What they 
> neglect in their "science", is using *short cranks along with a midfoot 
> stroke*. With 185mm cranks it didn't work for me, too much of a reach 
> despite a lowered saddle, awkward.  With 170 . a little better but 
> still ... nope. Then I tried 152/150's.. ahhh .. swet spot of 
> both midoot power and pedal speed.  As the French say back in the day  
> soo-play ... soo-play ! 
>
> On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 9:24:43 PM UTC-4 John Bokman wrote:
>
>> Hi all.
>> I've been riding VP Vice pedals for a few years now. It took a long while 
>> (aprx. a year) to get used to riding flats, coming from Speedplay Frogs. 
>> Finally, it took, and I'm happy on the flats for my commuter (Sam Hill).
>>
>> However, the Vice have developed play, rattle a bit, and generally feel 
>> gritty, and I have been experimenting with different ideas. I've recently 
>> used the old MKS Touring pedals, and RMX sneaker pedals. These are okay, 
>> but what I've discovered is that for my riding,  flats without connection 
>> (no clips/straps, powergrips) feel better underfoot with a fairly large 
>> platform, and low stack height,  like the Vice. And yet I know many of you 
>> enjoy the Riv-approved MKS Gamma, lambda, and Allways models. All of these 
>> appear to be taller, and all are narrower than the vice. And yet...I 
>> wonder: how big is big enough? I'm not racing downhill, fully padded and 
>> helmeted, on a double boinger, like my neice. I just ride my bike here and 
>> there, long distances, when time allows.
>>
>> I always want to support Riv when possible. But I am looking at many 
>> other pedals that Riv does not sell. What are some of your favorites, and 
>> why? For what use? If you use the aforementioned MKS pedals, what is your 
>> opinion of them? Do you like the size/shape? I'm wondering if the length of 
>> the pedal is more important than the width. The Gamma, Lambda, and Allways, 
>> for instance, are all longer than the Vice, while being slimmer. 
>>
>> Thanks.
>> John
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Flat Pedal Users: Favorite size/shape?

[John Bokman]

Thanks for all the good suggestions, everyone. I'm Narrowing down the 
parameters, I think. So far, what I think I want:

1. Metal pedal body, not composite.
2. Rebuildable pedal (can rebuild parts be had?).
3. At least as long as the Vice (106mm, I think).
4. At least 100mm wide.

Does anyone have experience with the Xpedo Spry? it looks to tick some 
boxes.

https://xpedo.com/product/pedals/flats/spry/


On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 8:18:37 AM UTC-7 John Bokman wrote:

> Yes, I did grease theses once already.  Grease is inexpensive, so of 
> course, I could regrease them.  As for the Catalyst,  I don't want to go 
> there for a few reasons:
> 1. I already experience toe overlap (fenders on my 700c Sam) at times, and 
> the length of the pedal is way longer than the Vice.
> 2. I don't like riding with my foot so far forward of the axle. In other 
> words, I'm not an arch-pedaler, which is what the Catalyst calls for, 
> unless I'm mistaken.
> 3. I'm not convinced I need something that long. Again, how long is long 
> enough?
>
> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 1:17:51 AM UTC-7 Garth wrote:
>
>> Do you add grease to your Vice pedals John ?  I always add grease to any 
>> pedal, open them up, slather some grease on the axle and slide the body 
>> back on the excess oozes out the axle side. I have 2 pairs of Vice and 
>> they've been flawless. Before these I did this with Wellgo MG-1's.  
>>
>> I wear size 14 shoes and the Vice size and shape works great with the 
>> shoes I wear. I pedal near midfoot, not totally. A longer platform would 
>> not necessarily be any better. That's what always struck me about Pedal 
>> Innovations. I already pedalled mid foot, my feet were already 
>> "supported"...(as if any other pedal doesn't offer support !).  What they 
>> neglect in their "science", is using *short cranks along with a midfoot 
>> stroke*. With 185mm cranks it didn't work for me, too much of a reach 
>> despite a lowered saddle, awkward.  With 170 . a little better but 
>> still ... nope. Then I tried 152/150's.. ahhh .. swet spot of 
>> both midoot power and pedal speed.  As the French say back in the day  
>> soo-play ... soo-play ! 
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 9:24:43 PM UTC-4 John Bokman wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all.
>>> I've been riding VP Vice pedals for a few years now. It took a long 
>>> while (aprx. a year) to get used to riding flats, coming from Speedplay 
>>> Frogs. Finally, it took, and I'm happy on the flats for my commuter (Sam 
>>> Hill).
>>>
>>> However, the Vice have developed play, rattle a bit, and generally feel 
>>> gritty, and I have been experimenting with different ideas. I've recently 
>>> used the old MKS Touring pedals, and RMX sneaker pedals. These are okay, 
>>> but what I've discovered is that for my riding,  flats without connection 
>>> (no clips/straps, powergrips) feel better underfoot with a fairly large 
>>> platform, and low stack height,  like the Vice. And yet I know many of you 
>>> enjoy the Riv-approved MKS Gamma, lambda, and Allways models. All of these 
>>> appear to be taller, and all are narrower than the vice. And yet...I 
>>> wonder: how big is big enough? I'm not racing downhill, fully padded and 
>>> helmeted, on a double boinger, like my neice. I just ride my bike here and 
>>> there, long distances, when time allows.
>>>
>>> I always want to support Riv when possible. But I am looking at many 
>>> other pedals that Riv does not sell. What are some of your favorites, and 
>>> why? For what use? If you use the aforementioned MKS pedals, what is your 
>>> opinion of them? Do you like the size/shape? I'm wondering if the length of 
>>> the pedal is more important than the width. The Gamma, Lambda, and Allways, 
>>> for instance, are all longer than the Vice, while being slimmer. 
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Let's talk about the All Rounder

[Mackenzy Albright]

I have not personally owned an all-rounder. But in general interest of bike 
development and history. It seemed that the design lineage came loosely 
from elements of the randonneur bikes (roadish geometry with 650b wider 
tires) Grant - being a thoughtful individual, adopted the design to 
contemporary parts availability which created the XO-1, which utilized 
slightly wider 26" tires. With Bridgestone being less interested in 
developing niche bikes grant started Rivendell. The All-rounder was a quick 
adaptation to a more boutique style small company version with revisions as 
Grant's perspective on bikes changed. If I recall there was also the 
mountain bike (I cant recall the name) and a road frame? EItherway - the 
All-rounder morphed into the Atlantis (another reference to Bridgestone 
touring bikes)  The Atlantis, again following trends in terms of wheelsize 
and clearance became (ie fitting 29er sized tires etc) which has had it's 
own evolution in itself. 

Grant see's his bikes within his interest of market. I think the early 
Atlantis style bikes influenced a whole generation of conteporary bikes. 
Crust Romanceur (which has been cited as based off the atlantis with discs 
and lower trail) Guerilla Monsoon, Midnight Special. ANd pretty much every 
other company to follow. 

In terms of a tighter geometry (road) geometry bike that fits relatively 
large wheels, there are now a ton of options. Which is fantastic. I really 
like my romanceur. It feels spritely as any road bike but easily handles 
more conditions. 

Rivendell in itself has de-performanced their contemporary designs (from 
racing standpoint) and pushed geometry to be more adventure, comfort, and 
stamina based oriented. Having several injuries and not being able to 
maintain an aggressive riding position and extremely excited to build up a 
CLEM L for camping/touring bike. I'll keep the romanceur for shorter more 
"spirited rides" as Jan Heine would say. 

In terms of preference. I think the all-rounder (x0-1) Toyo Atlantis's have 
a special place especially in paving the way for contemporary performance 
bike design. Aesthetically and performance wise. In terms of actual design 
- there are so many options, as we kind of live in a renaissance of bicycle 
design where we have so many options at reasonable costs. I for one am 
excited for what RIvendell is pushing these days (long slack sturdy), as I 
feel like you can find something reminiscent of the All-rounders elsewhere 
(even the crust lightning bolt). Or even just get a custom made for 
probably a similarly proportional price from an artisanal builder with many 
wonderful tube-sets available to choose from. 

On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 8:36:41 AM UTC-6 Marty Gierke, Stewartstown 
PA wrote:

> I had a 2001 All Rounder for a while. Lovely bike. Fit me well. Checked 
> all the boxes - looks, quality, fully lugged, Rivendell branding, known 
> builder (Kurt Goodrich in this case). Maybe I should have kept it, but when 
> I came across a Clem H in my size - at a third the price I could get for 
> the AR frameset - I elected to turn the page. Glad I did. The Clem is 
> everything an All Rounder should be. Stout, stable, versatile, comfortable. 
> The list goes on. Comparing the two is not easy - they both felt fine for 
> my riding style. If I had both I dare say the Clem would be out on the 
> trail way more than the AR. Aside from the Rivendell branding on the AR, I 
> like the aesthetics of both about the same, although the swooping seat 
> stays on Clem are kind of interesting - a little Hetchins-like. The Clem 
> will take bigger tires with fenders if that matters. As a bike, I think 
> it's hard to beat what Riv sells now. Most are All Rounders in all the ways 
> that matter. I'll admit I am not a fan of step-through style frames in 
> general (I had a huge Roscoe Bubbe) or curved/dropped/swooping top tubes. 
> The Clem H TT is not horizontal, but at least it's straight. Simply a 
> function of my age I think. If I found another AR that fit, and I had the 
> $$$, I might be tempted, but I'm not really looking (or hoping) for one to 
> pop up.  Here's my AR and the Clem H that replaced it. The Clem is getting 
> new tires this week, and has been tweaked in a few other ways. I'll post 
> some more pics of that shortly. 
>
> Marty
>
> [image: 47949931546_9757e0f6b5_k.jpeg]
> [image: PXL_20210925_162632253.jpeg]
>
> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 9:50:18 AM UTC-4 Sean Steinle wrote:
>
>> I apologize if this has already been discussed, but I honestly can't find 
>> much about the All Rounder, in the way of ride reports, reviews, etc. It 
>> seems to be a Holy Grail bike for several, and I'm curious, is it simply 
>> the fact that they're rare and hard to find now, or is there truly 
>> something special about it? 
>>
>> I remember Grant talking about the old Bridgestones in an article I came 
>> across, and his sentiment was essentially 'They're fine bikes, but they 
>> don't s

[RBW] Re: Flat Pedal Users: Favorite size/shape?

[Paul Choi]

I like the Blue Lug MKS XC-III pedals. Not too big and they hold my 8.5 
shoes well. They look like the bear trap pedals that I had on my Redline 
BMX bike back in the early 80's. I got mine from Hope Cyclery. They have 
them in six colors. 

On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 8:39:05 AM UTC-7 John Bokman wrote:

> Thanks for all the good suggestions, everyone. I'm Narrowing down the 
> parameters, I think. So far, what I think I want:
>
> 1. Metal pedal body, not composite.
> 2. Rebuildable pedal (can rebuild parts be had?).
> 3. At least as long as the Vice (106mm, I think).
> 4. At least 100mm wide.
>
> Does anyone have experience with the Xpedo Spry? it looks to tick some 
> boxes.
>
> https://xpedo.com/product/pedals/flats/spry/
>
>
> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 8:18:37 AM UTC-7 John Bokman wrote:
>
>> Yes, I did grease theses once already.  Grease is inexpensive, so of 
>> course, I could regrease them.  As for the Catalyst,  I don't want to go 
>> there for a few reasons:
>> 1. I already experience toe overlap (fenders on my 700c Sam) at times, 
>> and the length of the pedal is way longer than the Vice.
>> 2. I don't like riding with my foot so far forward of the axle. In other 
>> words, I'm not an arch-pedaler, which is what the Catalyst calls for, 
>> unless I'm mistaken.
>> 3. I'm not convinced I need something that long. Again, how long is long 
>> enough?
>>
>> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 1:17:51 AM UTC-7 Garth wrote:
>>
>>> Do you add grease to your Vice pedals John ?  I always add grease to any 
>>> pedal, open them up, slather some grease on the axle and slide the body 
>>> back on the excess oozes out the axle side. I have 2 pairs of Vice and 
>>> they've been flawless. Before these I did this with Wellgo MG-1's.  
>>>
>>> I wear size 14 shoes and the Vice size and shape works great with the 
>>> shoes I wear. I pedal near midfoot, not totally. A longer platform would 
>>> not necessarily be any better. That's what always struck me about Pedal 
>>> Innovations. I already pedalled mid foot, my feet were already 
>>> "supported"...(as if any other pedal doesn't offer support !).  What they 
>>> neglect in their "science", is using *short cranks along with a midfoot 
>>> stroke*. With 185mm cranks it didn't work for me, too much of a reach 
>>> despite a lowered saddle, awkward.  With 170 . a little better but 
>>> still ... nope. Then I tried 152/150's.. ahhh .. swet spot of 
>>> both midoot power and pedal speed.  As the French say back in the day  
>>> soo-play ... soo-play ! 
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 9:24:43 PM UTC-4 John Bokman wrote:
>>>
 Hi all.
 I've been riding VP Vice pedals for a few years now. It took a long 
 while (aprx. a year) to get used to riding flats, coming from Speedplay 
 Frogs. Finally, it took, and I'm happy on the flats for my commuter (Sam 
 Hill).

 However, the Vice have developed play, rattle a bit, and generally feel 
 gritty, and I have been experimenting with different ideas. I've recently 
 used the old MKS Touring pedals, and RMX sneaker pedals. These are okay, 
 but what I've discovered is that for my riding,  flats without connection 
 (no clips/straps, powergrips) feel better underfoot with a fairly large 
 platform, and low stack height,  like the Vice. And yet I know many of you 
 enjoy the Riv-approved MKS Gamma, lambda, and Allways models. All of these 
 appear to be taller, and all are narrower than the vice. And yet...I 
 wonder: how big is big enough? I'm not racing downhill, fully padded and 
 helmeted, on a double boinger, like my neice. I just ride my bike here and 
 there, long distances, when time allows.

 I always want to support Riv when possible. But I am looking at many 
 other pedals that Riv does not sell. What are some of your favorites, and 
 why? For what use? If you use the aforementioned MKS pedals, what is your 
 opinion of them? Do you like the size/shape? I'm wondering if the length 
 of 
 the pedal is more important than the width. The Gamma, Lambda, and 
 Allways, 
 for instance, are all longer than the Vice, while being slimmer. 

 Thanks.
 John




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[RBW] Re: Flat Pedal Users: Favorite size/shape?

[George Rosselle]

I have the Spank Oozy pedals on my Chameleon and like them a lot, metal, 
low profile, and availabe bushings that are easy to replace. Too bad you 
don't like composites, I also have Race Face Chesters on a couple bikes and 
find them to be just as good and much less expensive.

On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 12:24:19 PM UTC-4 Paul Choi wrote:

> I like the Blue Lug MKS XC-III pedals. Not too big and they hold my 8.5 
> shoes well. They look like the bear trap pedals that I had on my Redline 
> BMX bike back in the early 80's. I got mine from Hope Cyclery. They have 
> them in six colors. 
>
> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 8:39:05 AM UTC-7 John Bokman wrote:
>
>> Thanks for all the good suggestions, everyone. I'm Narrowing down the 
>> parameters, I think. So far, what I think I want:
>>
>> 1. Metal pedal body, not composite.
>> 2. Rebuildable pedal (can rebuild parts be had?).
>> 3. At least as long as the Vice (106mm, I think).
>> 4. At least 100mm wide.
>>
>> Does anyone have experience with the Xpedo Spry? it looks to tick some 
>> boxes.
>>
>> https://xpedo.com/product/pedals/flats/spry/
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 8:18:37 AM UTC-7 John Bokman wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, I did grease theses once already.  Grease is inexpensive, so of 
>>> course, I could regrease them.  As for the Catalyst,  I don't want to go 
>>> there for a few reasons:
>>> 1. I already experience toe overlap (fenders on my 700c Sam) at times, 
>>> and the length of the pedal is way longer than the Vice.
>>> 2. I don't like riding with my foot so far forward of the axle. In other 
>>> words, I'm not an arch-pedaler, which is what the Catalyst calls for, 
>>> unless I'm mistaken.
>>> 3. I'm not convinced I need something that long. Again, how long is long 
>>> enough?
>>>
>>> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 1:17:51 AM UTC-7 Garth wrote:
>>>
 Do you add grease to your Vice pedals John ?  I always add grease to 
 any pedal, open them up, slather some grease on the axle and slide the 
 body 
 back on the excess oozes out the axle side. I have 2 pairs of Vice and 
 they've been flawless. Before these I did this with Wellgo MG-1's.  

 I wear size 14 shoes and the Vice size and shape works great with the 
 shoes I wear. I pedal near midfoot, not totally. A longer platform would 
 not necessarily be any better. That's what always struck me about Pedal 
 Innovations. I already pedalled mid foot, my feet were already 
 "supported"...(as if any other pedal doesn't offer support !).  What they 
 neglect in their "science", is using *short cranks along with a 
 midfoot stroke*. With 185mm cranks it didn't work for me, too much of 
 a reach despite a lowered saddle, awkward.  With 170 . a little better 
 but still ... nope. Then I tried 152/150's.. ahhh .. swet spot 
 of both midoot power and pedal speed.  As the French say back in the day 
  soo-play ... soo-play ! 

 On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 9:24:43 PM UTC-4 John Bokman wrote:

> Hi all.
> I've been riding VP Vice pedals for a few years now. It took a long 
> while (aprx. a year) to get used to riding flats, coming from Speedplay 
> Frogs. Finally, it took, and I'm happy on the flats for my commuter (Sam 
> Hill).
>
> However, the Vice have developed play, rattle a bit, and generally 
> feel gritty, and I have been experimenting with different ideas. I've 
> recently used the old MKS Touring pedals, and RMX sneaker pedals. These 
> are 
> okay, but what I've discovered is that for my riding,  flats without 
> connection (no clips/straps, powergrips) feel better underfoot with a 
> fairly large platform, and low stack height,  like the Vice. And yet I 
> know 
> many of you enjoy the Riv-approved MKS Gamma, lambda, and Allways models. 
> All of these appear to be taller, and all are narrower than the vice. And 
> yet...I wonder: how big is big enough? I'm not racing downhill, fully 
> padded and helmeted, on a double boinger, like my neice. I just ride my 
> bike here and there, long distances, when time allows.
>
> I always want to support Riv when possible. But I am looking at many 
> other pedals that Riv does not sell. What are some of your favorites, and 
> why? For what use? If you use the aforementioned MKS pedals, what is your 
> opinion of them? Do you like the size/shape? I'm wondering if the length 
> of 
> the pedal is more important than the width. The Gamma, Lambda, and 
> Allways, 
> for instance, are all longer than the Vice, while being slimmer. 
>
> Thanks.
> John
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Let's talk about the All Rounder

[Bill Lindsay]

Sean asked a few questions regarding the All-Rounder.  I have not owned 
one, but I know the Bridgestone and Riv history pretty well and know Grant 
pretty well.  Sean's questions were:

1.  I'm curious (about why it's a Holy Grail bike for several), is it 
simply the fact that they're rare and hard to find now, or is there truly 
something special about it?  

*IMO, there is nothing truly special about it in the objective sense.  It 
was a step along Grant's design career.  Grant thinks of his current 
designs as more refined, i.e. 'better'.  Ungenerous folks attribute this to 
Grant being a marketer.  Of course he says the latest stuff is the best, 
because that's what he's selling.  Those ungenerous folks, besides being 
ungenerous, also have Grant's brain inverted.  Grant designs the best 
possible bikes he can think of today.  He never tries to sell you on a 
bike.  He hopes you like the bikes he designs, but if you don't, that's 
totally fine.  If Grant thought the All-Rounder was the apex of anything, 
Rivendell would still offer them.  There is plenty subjectively special 
about the All-Rounder.  A builder whose name you've heard personally built 
it.  It has "Rivendell" on the downtube.  It has a geometry that looks like 
a 1990s bike.  None of those things make the bike objectively better, but 
make them desirable by enough people that the supply x demand curve makes 
them super valuable.  To me, the All-Rounder is among the nicest 1990s 
touring frames.  It's very very nice, and it is a classic.  It looks like a 
very good bike from the 1990s, and that's what it is.  *

2.  " he felt the Rivs were in a different league. This makes me wonder if 
Grant would have a similar feeling about the All Rounder."

*Yes, I assure you Grant thinks the All-Rounder and every early Riv model 
is much much nicer than anything Bridgestone USA ever sold.  *

3.  " What's the verdict, is it truly one of the best Rivs out there?"  

*No.  Not objectively "best".  Subjectively one of the most desirable for 
some people.  People who tend towards traditional, whose tastes have not 
evolved significantly over the last ~30 years.  *

4. "Worth the price of admission if one is lucky enough to find one in 
their size?"

*That depends on who is paying.  If you are going to ride the heck out of 
it and can afford one, absolutely.  If you are going to speculatively guess 
that it will appreciate in value, and you're going to flip it for a profit, 
maybe.  If you expect it to be much much faster than a current Rivendell, 
or much much more comfortable, or much much more efficient, or whatever, 
then NO.  Paying a premium for a 30 year old bike won't get you anything 
objectively better than a non-collectors bike.   If you have to financially 
suffer to get one, or have to handwring over whether it'll get scratched or 
stolen, then no, it's not worth it.  No bike is worth the price if the 
price makes you afraid to use it.  Some machines are worth collecting to 
collectors.  Rivendells are not among those.  One of the worst things one 
can do with a Rivendell is collect and preserve it.  Rivendells are for 
riding.  *

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 6:50:18 AM UTC-7 Sean Steinle wrote:

> I apologize if this has already been discussed, but I honestly can't find 
> much about the All Rounder, in the way of ride reports, reviews, etc. It 
> seems to be a Holy Grail bike for several, and I'm curious, is it simply 
> the fact that they're rare and hard to find now, or is there truly 
> something special about it? 
>
> I remember Grant talking about the old Bridgestones in an article I came 
> across, and his sentiment was essentially 'They're fine bikes, but they 
> don't stack up against Rivs'. At least part of his reasoning was that he'd 
> continued to refine with Rivendell, and the improvements were drastic 
> enough that he felt the Rivs were in a different league. This makes me 
> wonder if Grant would have a similar feeling about the All Rounder. I'd 
> love to hear from those who own/have owned one. What's the verdict, is it 
> truly one of the best Rivs out there? Worth the price of admission if one 
> is lucky enough to find one in their size?
>
> Thanks for humoring me :)
> Sean in Kansas
>

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[RBW] Re: Let's talk about the All Rounder

[George Rosselle]

I did not own and All Rounder but did have an Atlantis from the first 
batch. It was a beautiful bike and a pleasure to ride, but was a bit 
harsher than I would have liked. Maybe it would ride better loaded but I 
never rode it that way. I much prefer the ride of the Rosco Bubbe I have 
now. I think the changes Grant has made in the bikes over time is an 
improvement, as you would hope, not just changes for the sake of selling 
more bikes. If you find an All Rounder that fits for a good price it might 
be worth checking out, but there are so many similar bikes on the market 
now that are probably better for the same price, or less, that I would 
recommend keeping an open mind.

George in Loganville, GA

On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 12:19:38 PM UTC-4 Mackenzy Albright wrote:

> I have not personally owned an all-rounder. But in general interest of 
> bike development and history. It seemed that the design lineage came 
> loosely from elements of the randonneur bikes (roadish geometry with 650b 
> wider tires) Grant - being a thoughtful individual, adopted the design to 
> contemporary parts availability which created the XO-1, which utilized 
> slightly wider 26" tires. With Bridgestone being less interested in 
> developing niche bikes grant started Rivendell. The All-rounder was a quick 
> adaptation to a more boutique style small company version with revisions as 
> Grant's perspective on bikes changed. If I recall there was also the 
> mountain bike (I cant recall the name) and a road frame? EItherway - the 
> All-rounder morphed into the Atlantis (another reference to Bridgestone 
> touring bikes)  The Atlantis, again following trends in terms of wheelsize 
> and clearance became (ie fitting 29er sized tires etc) which has had it's 
> own evolution in itself. 
>
> Grant see's his bikes within his interest of market. I think the early 
> Atlantis style bikes influenced a whole generation of conteporary bikes. 
> Crust Romanceur (which has been cited as based off the atlantis with discs 
> and lower trail) Guerilla Monsoon, Midnight Special. ANd pretty much every 
> other company to follow. 
>
> In terms of a tighter geometry (road) geometry bike that fits relatively 
> large wheels, there are now a ton of options. Which is fantastic. I really 
> like my romanceur. It feels spritely as any road bike but easily handles 
> more conditions. 
>
> Rivendell in itself has de-performanced their contemporary designs (from 
> racing standpoint) and pushed geometry to be more adventure, comfort, and 
> stamina based oriented. Having several injuries and not being able to 
> maintain an aggressive riding position and extremely excited to build up a 
> CLEM L for camping/touring bike. I'll keep the romanceur for shorter more 
> "spirited rides" as Jan Heine would say. 
>
> In terms of preference. I think the all-rounder (x0-1) Toyo Atlantis's 
> have a special place especially in paving the way for contemporary 
> performance bike design. Aesthetically and performance wise. In terms of 
> actual design - there are so many options, as we kind of live in a 
> renaissance of bicycle design where we have so many options at reasonable 
> costs. I for one am excited for what RIvendell is pushing these days (long 
> slack sturdy), as I feel like you can find something reminiscent of the 
> All-rounders elsewhere (even the crust lightning bolt). Or even just get a 
> custom made for probably a similarly proportional price from an artisanal 
> builder with many wonderful tube-sets available to choose from. 
>
> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 8:36:41 AM UTC-6 Marty Gierke, Stewartstown 
> PA wrote:
>
>> I had a 2001 All Rounder for a while. Lovely bike. Fit me well. Checked 
>> all the boxes - looks, quality, fully lugged, Rivendell branding, known 
>> builder (Kurt Goodrich in this case). Maybe I should have kept it, but when 
>> I came across a Clem H in my size - at a third the price I could get for 
>> the AR frameset - I elected to turn the page. Glad I did. The Clem is 
>> everything an All Rounder should be. Stout, stable, versatile, comfortable. 
>> The list goes on. Comparing the two is not easy - they both felt fine for 
>> my riding style. If I had both I dare say the Clem would be out on the 
>> trail way more than the AR. Aside from the Rivendell branding on the AR, I 
>> like the aesthetics of both about the same, although the swooping seat 
>> stays on Clem are kind of interesting - a little Hetchins-like. The Clem 
>> will take bigger tires with fenders if that matters. As a bike, I think 
>> it's hard to beat what Riv sells now. Most are All Rounders in all the ways 
>> that matter. I'll admit I am not a fan of step-through style frames in 
>> general (I had a huge Roscoe Bubbe) or curved/dropped/swooping top tubes. 
>> The Clem H TT is not horizontal, but at least it's straight. Simply a 
>> function of my age I think. If I found another AR that fit, and I had the 
>> $$$, I might be tempted, but I'm not 

[RBW] Re: Let's talk about the All Rounder

[Sean Steinle]

Thanks for the replies so far, wonderful stuff, this is exactly the sort of 
discussion I was hoping for. Unsurprisingly, the consensus so far seems to 
be what I thought from the start, a great bike, but less 'refined' than 
current Rivs, in the sense that Grant is always tweaking and making things 
closer to his current definitely of ideal. 

Bill, great points, and thanks for the reply, what I actually meant by 
point 2 was not whether Grant still feels like the All Rounder is better 
than the b-stones, but whether he feels like his current bikes are much 
superior to the All Rounder, in the same as he felt about the All Rounder 
compared to the b-stones back when he first started Riv. I think the answer 
to that is probably yes, or, like you poitned out, it'd still be an 
offering from them. 

On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 11:52:06 AM UTC-5 George Rosselle wrote:

> I did not own and All Rounder but did have an Atlantis from the first 
> batch. It was a beautiful bike and a pleasure to ride, but was a bit 
> harsher than I would have liked. Maybe it would ride better loaded but I 
> never rode it that way. I much prefer the ride of the Rosco Bubbe I have 
> now. I think the changes Grant has made in the bikes over time is an 
> improvement, as you would hope, not just changes for the sake of selling 
> more bikes. If you find an All Rounder that fits for a good price it might 
> be worth checking out, but there are so many similar bikes on the market 
> now that are probably better for the same price, or less, that I would 
> recommend keeping an open mind.
>
> George in Loganville, GA
>
> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 12:19:38 PM UTC-4 Mackenzy Albright wrote:
>
>> I have not personally owned an all-rounder. But in general interest of 
>> bike development and history. It seemed that the design lineage came 
>> loosely from elements of the randonneur bikes (roadish geometry with 650b 
>> wider tires) Grant - being a thoughtful individual, adopted the design to 
>> contemporary parts availability which created the XO-1, which utilized 
>> slightly wider 26" tires. With Bridgestone being less interested in 
>> developing niche bikes grant started Rivendell. The All-rounder was a quick 
>> adaptation to a more boutique style small company version with revisions as 
>> Grant's perspective on bikes changed. If I recall there was also the 
>> mountain bike (I cant recall the name) and a road frame? EItherway - the 
>> All-rounder morphed into the Atlantis (another reference to Bridgestone 
>> touring bikes)  The Atlantis, again following trends in terms of wheelsize 
>> and clearance became (ie fitting 29er sized tires etc) which has had it's 
>> own evolution in itself. 
>>
>> Grant see's his bikes within his interest of market. I think the early 
>> Atlantis style bikes influenced a whole generation of conteporary bikes. 
>> Crust Romanceur (which has been cited as based off the atlantis with discs 
>> and lower trail) Guerilla Monsoon, Midnight Special. ANd pretty much every 
>> other company to follow. 
>>
>> In terms of a tighter geometry (road) geometry bike that fits relatively 
>> large wheels, there are now a ton of options. Which is fantastic. I really 
>> like my romanceur. It feels spritely as any road bike but easily handles 
>> more conditions. 
>>
>> Rivendell in itself has de-performanced their contemporary designs (from 
>> racing standpoint) and pushed geometry to be more adventure, comfort, and 
>> stamina based oriented. Having several injuries and not being able to 
>> maintain an aggressive riding position and extremely excited to build up a 
>> CLEM L for camping/touring bike. I'll keep the romanceur for shorter more 
>> "spirited rides" as Jan Heine would say. 
>>
>> In terms of preference. I think the all-rounder (x0-1) Toyo Atlantis's 
>> have a special place especially in paving the way for contemporary 
>> performance bike design. Aesthetically and performance wise. In terms of 
>> actual design - there are so many options, as we kind of live in a 
>> renaissance of bicycle design where we have so many options at reasonable 
>> costs. I for one am excited for what RIvendell is pushing these days (long 
>> slack sturdy), as I feel like you can find something reminiscent of the 
>> All-rounders elsewhere (even the crust lightning bolt). Or even just get a 
>> custom made for probably a similarly proportional price from an artisanal 
>> builder with many wonderful tube-sets available to choose from. 
>>
>> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 8:36:41 AM UTC-6 Marty Gierke, 
>> Stewartstown PA wrote:
>>
>>> I had a 2001 All Rounder for a while. Lovely bike. Fit me well. Checked 
>>> all the boxes - looks, quality, fully lugged, Rivendell branding, known 
>>> builder (Kurt Goodrich in this case). Maybe I should have kept it, but when 
>>> I came across a Clem H in my size - at a third the price I could get for 
>>> the AR frameset - I elected to turn the page. Glad I did. The Clem is 
>>> 

Re: [RBW] Let's talk about the All Rounder

[rltilley]

I have a custom All Rounder from 2000 and it’s a great bike. I still remember 
the way it felt descending at speed for the first time. It is great on the road 
as well as non-technical dirt.  I had mine built for canti brakes and I’m still 
happy with that choice.

The fork will clear a tire in the low 40 mm size. If I had it built today I 
would want it to accept wider tires.

Robert Tilley
San Diego, CA

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 17, 2022, at 6:50 AM, Sean Steinle  wrote:
> 
> I apologize if this has already been discussed, but I honestly can't find 
> much about the All Rounder, in the way of ride reports, reviews, etc. It 
> seems to be a Holy Grail bike for several, and I'm curious, is it simply the 
> fact that they're rare and hard to find now, or is there truly something 
> special about it? 
> 
> I remember Grant talking about the old Bridgestones in an article I came 
> across, and his sentiment was essentially 'They're fine bikes, but they don't 
> stack up against Rivs'. At least part of his reasoning was that he'd 
> continued to refine with Rivendell, and the improvements were drastic enough 
> that he felt the Rivs were in a different league. This makes me wonder if 
> Grant would have a similar feeling about the All Rounder. I'd love to hear 
> from those who own/have owned one. What's the verdict, is it truly one of the 
> best Rivs out there? Worth the price of admission if one is lucky enough to 
> find one in their size?
> 
> Thanks for humoring me :)
> Sean in Kansas
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[RBW] Re: FS: Stuff at Analog

[Irving]

Uh as someone who's never bought anything from Analog's Spreadsheet 
before... what's the easiest way to go about doing so?

-Irving
SF, CA

On Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 3:51:55 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Cuz they're lovely people and have done some incredible Riv builds and 
> they have stuff you might like. 
>
> Joe "a satisfied customer" Bernard
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Stuff at Analog

[David Person]

To find the current list of sale items, click on Musings at the top of the 
page and then News & Events, the click the Sale Items icon (currently a 
picture with pink pedals).  There will be a link to a Google docs 
spreadsheet with the current items.  Send an email to 
analogcyc...@gmail.com letting them know which item(s) you are interested 
in.

David
On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 11:50:29 AM UTC-7 Irving wrote:

> Uh as someone who's never bought anything from Analog's Spreadsheet 
> before... what's the easiest way to go about doing so?
>
> -Irving
> SF, CA
>
> On Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 3:51:55 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Cuz they're lovely people and have done some incredible Riv builds and 
>> they have stuff you might like. 
>>
>> Joe "a satisfied customer" Bernard
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Let's talk about the All Rounder

[Ryan]

What Addison said!

In my mind, it's like the little black Chanel cocktail dress...a classic 
that never really goes out of style. Think of Audrey Hepburn in *Breakfast 
at Tiffany's.*

But of course, I too appreciate Riv's current offerings. Of course I'm 
keeping my 1997 Waterford-built AR. If I was going to buy another 
bike...not likely, but if...a Clem step-thru would be the ticket. I don't 
love the Boscos, and I would probably do as others have done and shed some 
rolling weight with 36-hole Deore LX/XT hubs, Velocity rims w db spokes and 
RH tires with the Endurance casing. And maybe a wider Brooks sprung saddle 
for the more upright position. Black or some other really understated color.

On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 1:06:20 PM UTC-5 Addison wrote:

> I've raved for years about my Allrounder.  It does pretty much everything 
> well or exceptionally well.  At least that I ask it to do.  The current 
> iteration is attached.
>
> And here is an old link/write up I did on it.
>
>
> https://www.addisonwilhite.com/rambler/rivendell-allrounder-jack-of-all-tradesmast-of-most
>
> I test rode a Hunq a few years ago and felt like my AR was the same bike.  
> I know the new Riv offerings are different animals but they don't speak to 
> me the way  the AR does.  Still love and admire Riv the company of course.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Addison Wilhite, M.A. 
>
> Academy of Arts, Careers and Technology 
>  
>
> *“Blazing the Trail to College and Career Success”*
>
> Portfolio and Blog 
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 17, 2022 at 10:42 AM Sean Steinle  wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the replies so far, wonderful stuff, this is exactly the sort 
>> of discussion I was hoping for. Unsurprisingly, the consensus so far seems 
>> to be what I thought from the start, a great bike, but less 'refined' than 
>> current Rivs, in the sense that Grant is always tweaking and making things 
>> closer to his current definitely of ideal. 
>>
>> Bill, great points, and thanks for the reply, what I actually meant by 
>> point 2 was not whether Grant still feels like the All Rounder is better 
>> than the b-stones, but whether he feels like his current bikes are much 
>> superior to the All Rounder, in the same as he felt about the All Rounder 
>> compared to the b-stones back when he first started Riv. I think the answer 
>> to that is probably yes, or, like you poitned out, it'd still be an 
>> offering from them. 
>>
>> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 11:52:06 AM UTC-5 George Rosselle wrote:
>>
>>> I did not own and All Rounder but did have an Atlantis from the first 
>>> batch. It was a beautiful bike and a pleasure to ride, but was a bit 
>>> harsher than I would have liked. Maybe it would ride better loaded but I 
>>> never rode it that way. I much prefer the ride of the Rosco Bubbe I have 
>>> now. I think the changes Grant has made in the bikes over time is an 
>>> improvement, as you would hope, not just changes for the sake of selling 
>>> more bikes. If you find an All Rounder that fits for a good price it might 
>>> be worth checking out, but there are so many similar bikes on the market 
>>> now that are probably better for the same price, or less, that I would 
>>> recommend keeping an open mind.
>>>
>>> George in Loganville, GA
>>>
>>> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 12:19:38 PM UTC-4 Mackenzy Albright wrote:
>>>
 I have not personally owned an all-rounder. But in general interest of 
 bike development and history. It seemed that the design lineage came 
 loosely from elements of the randonneur bikes (roadish geometry with 650b 
 wider tires) Grant - being a thoughtful individual, adopted the design to 
 contemporary parts availability which created the XO-1, which utilized 
 slightly wider 26" tires. With Bridgestone being less interested in 
 developing niche bikes grant started Rivendell. The All-rounder was a 
 quick 
 adaptation to a more boutique style small company version with revisions 
 as 
 Grant's perspective on bikes changed. If I recall there was also the 
 mountain bike (I cant recall the name) and a road frame? EItherway - the 
 All-rounder morphed into the Atlantis (another reference to Bridgestone 
 touring bikes)  The Atlantis, again following trends in terms of wheelsize 
 and clearance became (ie fitting 29er sized tires etc) which has had it's 
 own evolution in itself. 

 Grant see's his bikes within his interest of market. I think the early 
 Atlantis style bikes influenced a whole generation of conteporary bikes. 
 Crust Romanceur (which has been cited as based off the atlantis with discs 
 and lower trail) Guerilla Monsoon, Midnight Special. ANd pretty much every 
 other company to follow. 

 In terms of a tighter geometry (road) geometry bike that fits 
 relatively large wheels, there are now a ton of options. Which is 
 fantastic. I really like my romanceur

[RBW] Re: Waterford vs Toyo AHH

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Hey there Matt - 

I think there were few of the AHH production bikes which did _not_ have a 
kickstand plate. 
http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/hilsen/index.html

A recall seeing few photos of early (likely Waterford-built) with a round 
chainstay bridge only, but most of the ones I saw had the plate. I know 
mine does (a Toyo-built). 

I've got a few of those early AHH's photo'd during visits to the RBWHQ&L - 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclofiend/7495148306/in/album-72157630407224566/

they all seem to have them. 

IIRC, the serial numbers have some designators. But, if it has 
Waterford-branded dropouts, I think that's a solid indicator. They were a 
bit more rare. The colors were lighter on some of the Waterford ones as 
well. 

Jim







On Sunday, March 13, 2022 at 10:21:51 AM UTC-7 Matt Beecher wrote:

> I've been looking at that neat AHH over on Ebay and it got me wondering.  
> I saw a few comments in the past about Waterford vs Toyo AHH frames.  How 
> does one tell the difference.  Is the easiest/only option to look for 
> Waterford dropouts?  
>
> Do any of the AHH frames have a kickstand plate?  
>
> Dang, I wish that were not my size.
>
> Best regards,
> Matt in Oswego, IL
>

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[RBW] Re: Craigslist (and others) Bikes For Sale: 3

[Jacob Lopez]

Rivendell Romulus 
57cm
2,250
Thousand Oaks, CA
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1004533483793238/?ref=search&referral_code=marketplace_search&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3A4f2d3f91-7f57-4490-9c16-507f4bc4ac4b

On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 9:46:48 PM UTC-7 Matthew Williams wrote:

> Sam Hillborne frame & fork 
> 58cm 
> $1300 
> Oakland, CA 
>
> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik/d/oakland-rivendell-sam-hillborne-58-cm/7458838156.html

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[RBW] FS: New Rivendell Cheviot 62cm

[Daniel Rooke]

I've overextended myself on bikes and have to sell this even though I 
suspect I may regret it.  I bought this bike a few months ago from Halcyon 
Bike Shop in Tennessee.  Someone had posted here about it being for sale 
and I got it.  It's never been built up - basically new - it was hanging up 
in the shop for years.  The only mark on it is a small paint chip I 
photographed.  I'd like to make up what I paid for it if that's fair.  I 
can ship through bike flights but would ideally sell it locally.  I'm in 
New York.  But Bikeflights would be 18lbs and the dimensions are 45 x 26 x 
8 inches.  I'm asking $1600 plus shipping.  

Photos 


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Re: [RBW] Re: FS: Stuff at Analog

[Josh Brown]

Gather up all the things that you want and email James and Candice
directly, they will create a PayPal invoice with shipping costs.

On Thu, Mar 17, 2022, 2:50 PM Irving  wrote:

> Uh as someone who's never bought anything from Analog's Spreadsheet
> before... what's the easiest way to go about doing so?
>
> -Irving
> SF, CA
>
> On Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 3:51:55 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Cuz they're lovely people and have done some incredible Riv builds and
>> they have stuff you might like.
>>
>> Joe "a satisfied customer" Bernard
>>
> --
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> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> 
> .
>

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[RBW] Re: Flat Pedal Users: Favorite size/shape?

[Joe in the Pay Area]

Black Ops Torqlite UL platform pedals, now almost impossible to find.  And 
why does my reply have just a half line of height? Can baely see what I 
type!

On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 9:38:42 AM UTC-7 George Rosselle wrote:

> I have the Spank Oozy pedals on my Chameleon and like them a lot, metal, 
> low profile, and availabe bushings that are easy to replace. Too bad you 
> don't like composites, I also have Race Face Chesters on a couple bikes and 
> find them to be just as good and much less expensive.
>
> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 12:24:19 PM UTC-4 Paul Choi wrote:
>
>> I like the Blue Lug MKS XC-III pedals. Not too big and they hold my 8.5 
>> shoes well. They look like the bear trap pedals that I had on my Redline 
>> BMX bike back in the early 80's. I got mine from Hope Cyclery. They have 
>> them in six colors. 
>>
>> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 8:39:05 AM UTC-7 John Bokman wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for all the good suggestions, everyone. I'm Narrowing down the 
>>> parameters, I think. So far, what I think I want:
>>>
>>> 1. Metal pedal body, not composite.
>>> 2. Rebuildable pedal (can rebuild parts be had?).
>>> 3. At least as long as the Vice (106mm, I think).
>>> 4. At least 100mm wide.
>>>
>>> Does anyone have experience with the Xpedo Spry? it looks to tick some 
>>> boxes.
>>>
>>> https://xpedo.com/product/pedals/flats/spry/
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 8:18:37 AM UTC-7 John Bokman wrote:
>>>
 Yes, I did grease theses once already.  Grease is inexpensive, so of 
 course, I could regrease them.  As for the Catalyst,  I don't want to go 
 there for a few reasons:
 1. I already experience toe overlap (fenders on my 700c Sam) at times, 
 and the length of the pedal is way longer than the Vice.
 2. I don't like riding with my foot so far forward of the axle. In 
 other words, I'm not an arch-pedaler, which is what the Catalyst calls 
 for, 
 unless I'm mistaken.
 3. I'm not convinced I need something that long. Again, how long is 
 long enough?

 On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 1:17:51 AM UTC-7 Garth wrote:

> Do you add grease to your Vice pedals John ?  I always add grease to 
> any pedal, open them up, slather some grease on the axle and slide the 
> body 
> back on the excess oozes out the axle side. I have 2 pairs of Vice and 
> they've been flawless. Before these I did this with Wellgo MG-1's.  
>
> I wear size 14 shoes and the Vice size and shape works great with the 
> shoes I wear. I pedal near midfoot, not totally. A longer platform would 
> not necessarily be any better. That's what always struck me about Pedal 
> Innovations. I already pedalled mid foot, my feet were already 
> "supported"...(as if any other pedal doesn't offer support !).  What they 
> neglect in their "science", is using *short cranks along with a 
> midfoot stroke*. With 185mm cranks it didn't work for me, too much of 
> a reach despite a lowered saddle, awkward.  With 170 . a little 
> better 
> but still ... nope. Then I tried 152/150's.. ahhh .. swet 
> spot 
> of both midoot power and pedal speed.  As the French say back in the day 
>  soo-play ... soo-play ! 
>
> On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 9:24:43 PM UTC-4 John Bokman wrote:
>
>> Hi all.
>> I've been riding VP Vice pedals for a few years now. It took a long 
>> while (aprx. a year) to get used to riding flats, coming from Speedplay 
>> Frogs. Finally, it took, and I'm happy on the flats for my commuter (Sam 
>> Hill).
>>
>> However, the Vice have developed play, rattle a bit, and generally 
>> feel gritty, and I have been experimenting with different ideas. I've 
>> recently used the old MKS Touring pedals, and RMX sneaker pedals. These 
>> are 
>> okay, but what I've discovered is that for my riding,  flats without 
>> connection (no clips/straps, powergrips) feel better underfoot with a 
>> fairly large platform, and low stack height,  like the Vice. And yet I 
>> know 
>> many of you enjoy the Riv-approved MKS Gamma, lambda, and Allways 
>> models. 
>> All of these appear to be taller, and all are narrower than the vice. 
>> And 
>> yet...I wonder: how big is big enough? I'm not racing downhill, fully 
>> padded and helmeted, on a double boinger, like my neice. I just ride my 
>> bike here and there, long distances, when time allows.
>>
>> I always want to support Riv when possible. But I am looking at many 
>> other pedals that Riv does not sell. What are some of your favorites, 
>> and 
>> why? For what use? If you use the aforementioned MKS pedals, what is 
>> your 
>> opinion of them? Do you like the size/shape? I'm wondering if the length 
>> of 
>> the pedal is more important than the width. The Gamma, Lambda, and 
>> Allways, 
>> for inst

[RBW] Re: WTT/WTS Campag 10-speed triple group

[bob saunders]

Still looking for a home…

On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 10:37:23 AM UTC-5 bob saunders wrote:

> Folks…I have an extremely nice Campag 10-speed triple group that I’d like 
> to trade/add cash for a 62 Rambouillet or Romulus frame in great condition. 
> If sold as a group, I’m asking $550 plus shipping CONUS and I’m not 
> interested in breaking up the group. The group consists of:
>
> Comp 10speed 53/42/30 175mm crank and NOS crank bolts
> Centaur triple bottom bracket (English threads NOS w/box)
> Centaur 10-speed alloy Ergos
> Centaur 10-speed triple FD (32mm clamp NOS w/box)
> Comp long cage RD
> Centaur silver brakes with partially used pads
> Here’s a link to a photo of the group and I have individual photos 
> available for email as well.
>
> [img]https://i.imgur.com/iriNNST.jpg[/img]
>
> Thanks 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Let's talk about the All Rounder

[Cyclofiend Jim]

In terms of lineage, the A/R was the refinement of the XO from the 
Bridgestone era, and begat the Atlantis. 
http://www.cyclofiend.com/Images/rbw/gen1/rivcat05_allrounder.jpg

http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/atlantis/index.html

- J


On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 1:03:32 PM UTC-7 Ryan wrote:

> What Addison said!
>
> In my mind, it's like the little black Chanel cocktail dress...a classic 
> that never really goes out of style. Think of Audrey Hepburn in *Breakfast 
> at Tiffany's.*
>
> But of course, I too appreciate Riv's current offerings. Of course I'm 
> keeping my 1997 Waterford-built AR. If I was going to buy another 
> bike...not likely, but if...a Clem step-thru would be the ticket. I don't 
> love the Boscos, and I would probably do as others have done and shed some 
> rolling weight with 36-hole Deore LX/XT hubs, Velocity rims w db spokes and 
> RH tires with the Endurance casing. And maybe a wider Brooks sprung saddle 
> for the more upright position. Black or some other really understated color.
>
> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 1:06:20 PM UTC-5 Addison wrote:
>
>> I've raved for years about my Allrounder.  It does pretty much everything 
>> well or exceptionally well.  At least that I ask it to do.  The current 
>> iteration is attached.
>>
>> And here is an old link/write up I did on it.
>>
>>
>> https://www.addisonwilhite.com/rambler/rivendell-allrounder-jack-of-all-tradesmast-of-most
>>
>> I test rode a Hunq a few years ago and felt like my AR was the same 
>> bike.  I know the new Riv offerings are different animals but they don't 
>> speak to me the way  the AR does.  Still love and admire Riv the company of 
>> course.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Addison Wilhite, M.A. 
>>
>> Academy of Arts, Careers and Technology 
>>  
>>
>> *“Blazing the Trail to College and Career Success”*
>>
>> Portfolio and Blog 
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 17, 2022 at 10:42 AM Sean Steinle  wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for the replies so far, wonderful stuff, this is exactly the sort 
>>> of discussion I was hoping for. Unsurprisingly, the consensus so far seems 
>>> to be what I thought from the start, a great bike, but less 'refined' than 
>>> current Rivs, in the sense that Grant is always tweaking and making things 
>>> closer to his current definitely of ideal. 
>>>
>>> Bill, great points, and thanks for the reply, what I actually meant by 
>>> point 2 was not whether Grant still feels like the All Rounder is better 
>>> than the b-stones, but whether he feels like his current bikes are much 
>>> superior to the All Rounder, in the same as he felt about the All Rounder 
>>> compared to the b-stones back when he first started Riv. I think the answer 
>>> to that is probably yes, or, like you poitned out, it'd still be an 
>>> offering from them. 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 11:52:06 AM UTC-5 George Rosselle wrote:
>>>
 I did not own and All Rounder but did have an Atlantis from the first 
 batch. It was a beautiful bike and a pleasure to ride, but was a bit 
 harsher than I would have liked. Maybe it would ride better loaded but I 
 never rode it that way. I much prefer the ride of the Rosco Bubbe I have 
 now. I think the changes Grant has made in the bikes over time is an 
 improvement, as you would hope, not just changes for the sake of selling 
 more bikes. If you find an All Rounder that fits for a good price it might 
 be worth checking out, but there are so many similar bikes on the market 
 now that are probably better for the same price, or less, that I would 
 recommend keeping an open mind.

 George in Loganville, GA

 On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 12:19:38 PM UTC-4 Mackenzy Albright 
 wrote:

> I have not personally owned an all-rounder. But in general interest of 
> bike development and history. It seemed that the design lineage came 
> loosely from elements of the randonneur bikes (roadish geometry with 650b 
> wider tires) Grant - being a thoughtful individual, adopted the design to 
> contemporary parts availability which created the XO-1, which utilized 
> slightly wider 26" tires. With Bridgestone being less interested in 
> developing niche bikes grant started Rivendell. The All-rounder was a 
> quick 
> adaptation to a more boutique style small company version with revisions 
> as 
> Grant's perspective on bikes changed. If I recall there was also the 
> mountain bike (I cant recall the name) and a road frame? EItherway - the 
> All-rounder morphed into the Atlantis (another reference to Bridgestone 
> touring bikes)  The Atlantis, again following trends in terms of 
> wheelsize 
> and clearance became (ie fitting 29er sized tires etc) which has had it's 
> own evolution in itself. 
>
> Grant see's his bikes within his interest of market. I think the early 
> Atlantis style bikes influenced a who

[RBW] Re: FS: Rivendell Hunqapillar, 62, complete, dynamo—$2600

[Friend]

Is this still for sale?  What is your PBH?

On Saturday, February 19, 2022 at 11:39:15 AM UTC-5 larson@gmail.com 
wrote:

> If I had not just finished building up my first Rivendell, an Appaloosa, I 
> would be all over this. The Hunqapillar is a really cool bike, and may just 
> have the coolest head badge ever. Good luck with the sale!
>
> On Friday, February 18, 2022 at 6:24:24 PM UTC-6 Applegate wrote:
>
>> [image: IMG_8197.jpeg]
>> “A wooly mammoth of a bicycle.”
>>
>> Hello folks. I’ve overdone the bicycles again, and am cutting one out. 
>> It’s a Hunq, and it will be a sad day to see it go. I used this as a 
>> heavy-duty town bike, with mega grocery hauls and big Lake Merritt picnic 
>> duty, but it is made for much more fun than that, like expedition-grade 
>> off-road bike touring.
>>
>> Google Photos 
>>
>> It has a Shimano dynamo front hub (!) but I’m planning to keep the lights 
>> so as to keep the price down a bit, and since not everybody has the same 
>> taste in those anyway.
>>
>> —Rivendell Silver Crankset, 42x28 w/pretty guard
>> —Soma Shikoro 48mm tires
>> —2x10 Deore Xt drivetrain
>> —Shimano dynamo FH, Velocity RH, on Atlas rims (Rich Lesnik built front)
>> —Nitto Tallux stem
>> —Nitto Billie bars
>> —Paul Cantis, Touring + Neo-Retro (set up opposite front/back config as 
>> "typical" just cuz; please do not email me JUST to say these are backwards.)
>> —Shimano Dura-Ace bar-end shifters set up as thumbies
>> —Dia-compe brake levers
>> —Riv fancy cork grips
>>
>> Add $50 for the Brooks (I can give you brown or black)
>> Add $60 for the Nitto seatpost (I'll include a Kalloy S65 copy in its 
>> place)
>> Add $50 for the MKS/Riv Monarch/Grip King pedals (I'll include standard 
>> platform pedals)
>>
>>
>> I'm 6'0" with longer-than-the-statistical-average legs for my height. 
>> Saddle height there is about 79cm.
>>
>>
>> I'm in Berkeley, and would like to prioritize local pickup, but shipping 
>> via Bikeflights + $95 for Blue Heron (LBS) to professionally pack it is 
>> also an option. I don't currently have a bike box in which to pack it up 
>> myself.
>>
>>
>> Thanks for your consideration,
>> Alex Applegate
>> Berkeley, CA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Per Riv/Cyclofiend (thanks Jim) 
>> http://www.cyclofiend.com/Images/rbw/pdf/original_hunaqbook_pdf.pdf:
>>
>> The benefit of the expanded frame is higher handlebars easier, and so, 
>> more comfort. That’s important and desirable on any bike, and super 
>> important on one for touring.
>>
>> The Hunqapillar frame is an interesting mix of materials and people 
>> behind it. It's our design, everything down to the last micro-detail. It’s 
>> made in Taiwan by a team of builders trained by Tetsu Ishigaki, of Toyo. 
>> The main tubes are super- expensive Japanese Kaisei 8630 heat-treated. The 
>> seat- and chainstays are perfectly good Taiwan CrMo. The fork is made in 
>> Japan by Tetsu Ishigaki at Toyo.
>>
>> Rear Spacing is 135mm—normal for touring and mountain bikes, and that 
>> gives you access to about a million rear hubs.
>>
>> The 58 and 62, have extra top tubes, for extra strength. The 48 and 54 
>> don’t need them, because their head tubes are shorter, so the frames are 
>> already well-triangulated.
>>
>> All sizes have clearance for 2.2-inch tires, which is big enough for 
>> anything except downhill racing.
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Let's talk about the All Rounder

[iamkeith]

I own an All Rounder.  I also own a Saluki (pre-homer), a Ramboiillet, a 
Quickbeam, a Susie Longbolts (which replaced a Clem H), an XO-1, an RB-1, a 
late 90s Ibis Hakkaluggi, and more mountain bikes than possibly makes sense 
- including some that have been converted to road-ish bikes.  Guess which 
one sees more use than all the others combined!

It's not the lightest, nor the most comfortable, nor the most stable of the 
bunch.  It doesn't have particularly long chainstays, in which I'm a true  
believer.  It doesn't have as long of a top tube as I wish it had.  It 
doesn't have the 6 degree up-sloped top tube like the newer models, and 
which I personally find more attractive in a form-follows-function sort of 
way  (though it does come from the era when the models were available in 
smaller size increments so you could get the exact size you needed).  It 
doesn't even have that pretty of lugs or fork crown, by rivendell standards 
- (though it does have a gorgeous Joe Bell paint job.)

What it DOES have, and why I think I like it so much, is 26" wheels and all 
the advantages they offer.  Any tires between 1.5" and 2.3" are great, and 
give it different personalities.  I've done 100 mile days, long climbs with 
bomber descents (including beartooth pass), a week-long tour, fought 45 mph 
winds, taken it on many trail rides, shopping runs and slow meandering 
rides with my kids when they were young, and almost never wish I was on a 
different bike. Also.. I thinK that sometimes a bike happens to be more 
than a sum of its details, and just works for reasons you can't explain.

After so many years of Rivendell being the only option for reasonable 
bikes, there's an absolute wealth good options these days:  Crust, BMC, 
Analog, Ocean Air, Rawland, Stooge, etc., and probably even some mainstream 
copycats.  I'm tempted all the time to buy another bike, especially with 
disc brakes, but - in the end - always just accept the fact that I'll 
likely prefer the All Rounder anyway, and so I finally decide to save 
myself the money and hassle.

As far as the comparison to the XO-1 goes, I suspect much of what Grant 
meant is related to construction.  When you look at the AR and the XO side 
by side, the level of difference in build quality is remarkable.  But the 
XO has some sort of magic of its own, with the lighter, skinnier tubing. 

On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 7:50:18 AM UTC-6 Sean Steinle wrote:

> I apologize if this has already been discussed, but I honestly can't find 
> much about the All Rounder, in the way of ride reports, reviews, etc. It 
> seems to be a Holy Grail bike for several, and I'm curious, is it simply 
> the fact that they're rare and hard to find now, or is there truly 
> something special about it? 
>
> I remember Grant talking about the old Bridgestones in an article I came 
> across, and his sentiment was essentially 'They're fine bikes, but they 
> don't stack up against Rivs'. At least part of his reasoning was that he'd 
> continued to refine with Rivendell, and the improvements were drastic 
> enough that he felt the Rivs were in a different league. This makes me 
> wonder if Grant would have a similar feeling about the All Rounder. I'd 
> love to hear from those who own/have owned one. What's the verdict, is it 
> truly one of the best Rivs out there? Worth the price of admission if one 
> is lucky enough to find one in their size?
>
> Thanks for humoring me :)
> Sean in Kansas
>

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[RBW] Re: Flat Pedal Users: Favorite size/shape?

[Michael Morrissey]

Does the Pedaling Innovations rebuild kit work for VP Vice pedals? It looks 
like the axle and bearings are the same.

Anyone know?

Also a nice choice for a high-end pedal are these bad boys, made in the USA:
https://yoshimuracycling.com/products/chilao-performance-bicycle-pedal

Michael

On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 7:08:29 PM UTC-4 Joe in the Pay Area wrote:

> Black Ops Torqlite UL platform pedals, now almost impossible to find.  And 
> why does my reply have just a half line of height? Can baely see what I 
> type!
>
> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 9:38:42 AM UTC-7 George Rosselle wrote:
>
>> I have the Spank Oozy pedals on my Chameleon and like them a lot, metal, 
>> low profile, and availabe bushings that are easy to replace. Too bad you 
>> don't like composites, I also have Race Face Chesters on a couple bikes and 
>> find them to be just as good and much less expensive.
>>
>> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 12:24:19 PM UTC-4 Paul Choi wrote:
>>
>>> I like the Blue Lug MKS XC-III pedals. Not too big and they hold my 8.5 
>>> shoes well. They look like the bear trap pedals that I had on my Redline 
>>> BMX bike back in the early 80's. I got mine from Hope Cyclery. They have 
>>> them in six colors. 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 8:39:05 AM UTC-7 John Bokman wrote:
>>>
 Thanks for all the good suggestions, everyone. I'm Narrowing down the 
 parameters, I think. So far, what I think I want:

 1. Metal pedal body, not composite.
 2. Rebuildable pedal (can rebuild parts be had?).
 3. At least as long as the Vice (106mm, I think).
 4. At least 100mm wide.

 Does anyone have experience with the Xpedo Spry? it looks to tick some 
 boxes.

 https://xpedo.com/product/pedals/flats/spry/


 On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 8:18:37 AM UTC-7 John Bokman wrote:

> Yes, I did grease theses once already.  Grease is inexpensive, so of 
> course, I could regrease them.  As for the Catalyst,  I don't want to go 
> there for a few reasons:
> 1. I already experience toe overlap (fenders on my 700c Sam) at times, 
> and the length of the pedal is way longer than the Vice.
> 2. I don't like riding with my foot so far forward of the axle. In 
> other words, I'm not an arch-pedaler, which is what the Catalyst calls 
> for, 
> unless I'm mistaken.
> 3. I'm not convinced I need something that long. Again, how long is 
> long enough?
>
> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 1:17:51 AM UTC-7 Garth wrote:
>
>> Do you add grease to your Vice pedals John ?  I always add grease to 
>> any pedal, open them up, slather some grease on the axle and slide the 
>> body 
>> back on the excess oozes out the axle side. I have 2 pairs of Vice and 
>> they've been flawless. Before these I did this with Wellgo MG-1's.  
>>
>> I wear size 14 shoes and the Vice size and shape works great with the 
>> shoes I wear. I pedal near midfoot, not totally. A longer platform would 
>> not necessarily be any better. That's what always struck me about Pedal 
>> Innovations. I already pedalled mid foot, my feet were already 
>> "supported"...(as if any other pedal doesn't offer support !).  What 
>> they 
>> neglect in their "science", is using *short cranks along with a 
>> midfoot stroke*. With 185mm cranks it didn't work for me, too much 
>> of a reach despite a lowered saddle, awkward.  With 170 . a little 
>> better but still ... nope. Then I tried 152/150's.. ahhh .. 
>> swet spot of both midoot power and pedal speed.  As the French say 
>> back 
>> in the day  soo-play ... soo-play ! 
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 9:24:43 PM UTC-4 John Bokman wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all.
>>> I've been riding VP Vice pedals for a few years now. It took a long 
>>> while (aprx. a year) to get used to riding flats, coming from Speedplay 
>>> Frogs. Finally, it took, and I'm happy on the flats for my commuter 
>>> (Sam 
>>> Hill).
>>>
>>> However, the Vice have developed play, rattle a bit, and generally 
>>> feel gritty, and I have been experimenting with different ideas. I've 
>>> recently used the old MKS Touring pedals, and RMX sneaker pedals. These 
>>> are 
>>> okay, but what I've discovered is that for my riding,  flats without 
>>> connection (no clips/straps, powergrips) feel better underfoot with a 
>>> fairly large platform, and low stack height,  like the Vice. And yet I 
>>> know 
>>> many of you enjoy the Riv-approved MKS Gamma, lambda, and Allways 
>>> models. 
>>> All of these appear to be taller, and all are narrower than the vice. 
>>> And 
>>> yet...I wonder: how big is big enough? I'm not racing downhill, fully 
>>> padded and helmeted, on a double boinger, like my neice. I just ride my 
>>> bike here and there, long distances, when tim

[RBW] Re: Flat Pedal Users: Favorite size/shape?

[John Bokman]

Indeed, those look excellent. Definitely worth a hard look. 

On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 6:00:52 PM UTC-7 Michael Morrissey wrote:

> Does the Pedaling Innovations rebuild kit work for VP Vice pedals? It 
> looks like the axle and bearings are the same.
>
> Anyone know?
>
> Also a nice choice for a high-end pedal are these bad boys, made in the 
> USA:
> https://yoshimuracycling.com/products/chilao-performance-bicycle-pedal
>
> Michael
>
> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 7:08:29 PM UTC-4 Joe in the Pay Area wrote:
>
>> Black Ops Torqlite UL platform pedals, now almost impossible to find.  
>> And why does my reply have just a half line of height? Can baely see what I 
>> type!
>>
>> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 9:38:42 AM UTC-7 George Rosselle wrote:
>>
>>> I have the Spank Oozy pedals on my Chameleon and like them a lot, metal, 
>>> low profile, and availabe bushings that are easy to replace. Too bad you 
>>> don't like composites, I also have Race Face Chesters on a couple bikes and 
>>> find them to be just as good and much less expensive.
>>>
>>> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 12:24:19 PM UTC-4 Paul Choi wrote:
>>>
 I like the Blue Lug MKS XC-III pedals. Not too big and they hold my 8.5 
 shoes well. They look like the bear trap pedals that I had on my Redline 
 BMX bike back in the early 80's. I got mine from Hope Cyclery. They have 
 them in six colors. 

 On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 8:39:05 AM UTC-7 John Bokman wrote:

> Thanks for all the good suggestions, everyone. I'm Narrowing down the 
> parameters, I think. So far, what I think I want:
>
> 1. Metal pedal body, not composite.
> 2. Rebuildable pedal (can rebuild parts be had?).
> 3. At least as long as the Vice (106mm, I think).
> 4. At least 100mm wide.
>
> Does anyone have experience with the Xpedo Spry? it looks to tick some 
> boxes.
>
> https://xpedo.com/product/pedals/flats/spry/
>
>
> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 8:18:37 AM UTC-7 John Bokman wrote:
>
>> Yes, I did grease theses once already.  Grease is inexpensive, so of 
>> course, I could regrease them.  As for the Catalyst,  I don't want to go 
>> there for a few reasons:
>> 1. I already experience toe overlap (fenders on my 700c Sam) at 
>> times, and the length of the pedal is way longer than the Vice.
>> 2. I don't like riding with my foot so far forward of the axle. In 
>> other words, I'm not an arch-pedaler, which is what the Catalyst calls 
>> for, 
>> unless I'm mistaken.
>> 3. I'm not convinced I need something that long. Again, how long is 
>> long enough?
>>
>> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 1:17:51 AM UTC-7 Garth wrote:
>>
>>> Do you add grease to your Vice pedals John ?  I always add grease to 
>>> any pedal, open them up, slather some grease on the axle and slide the 
>>> body 
>>> back on the excess oozes out the axle side. I have 2 pairs of Vice and 
>>> they've been flawless. Before these I did this with Wellgo MG-1's.  
>>>
>>> I wear size 14 shoes and the Vice size and shape works great with 
>>> the shoes I wear. I pedal near midfoot, not totally. A longer platform 
>>> would not necessarily be any better. That's what always struck me about 
>>> Pedal Innovations. I already pedalled mid foot, my feet were already 
>>> "supported"...(as if any other pedal doesn't offer support !).  What 
>>> they 
>>> neglect in their "science", is using *short cranks along with a 
>>> midfoot stroke*. With 185mm cranks it didn't work for me, too much 
>>> of a reach despite a lowered saddle, awkward.  With 170 . a little 
>>> better but still ... nope. Then I tried 152/150's.. ahhh .. 
>>> swet spot of both midoot power and pedal speed.  As the French say 
>>> back 
>>> in the day  soo-play ... soo-play ! 
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 9:24:43 PM UTC-4 John Bokman wrote:
>>>
 Hi all.
 I've been riding VP Vice pedals for a few years now. It took a long 
 while (aprx. a year) to get used to riding flats, coming from 
 Speedplay 
 Frogs. Finally, it took, and I'm happy on the flats for my commuter 
 (Sam 
 Hill).

 However, the Vice have developed play, rattle a bit, and generally 
 feel gritty, and I have been experimenting with different ideas. I've 
 recently used the old MKS Touring pedals, and RMX sneaker pedals. 
 These are 
 okay, but what I've discovered is that for my riding,  flats without 
 connection (no clips/straps, powergrips) feel better underfoot with a 
 fairly large platform, and low stack height,  like the Vice. And yet I 
 know 
 many of you enjoy the Riv-approved MKS Gamma, lambda, and Allways 
 models. 
 All of these appear to be taller, and a

[RBW] Re: FS: Bikepacking Bags - Riv style

[Collin A]

Doing a bump and a price drop:

*Swift Zeitgeist Campandgoslow Edition* - Used for more beach/Picnicpacking 
trips where it either contained the beer, the chairs, or the lunches. It 
was a limited edition run with the orange cordura and the pretty cool patch 
and the rattlesnake trim, and MUSA (which apparently is no longer the case 
with swift industries :/).* Asking $180 + shipping*

*Porcelain Rocket meanwhile 137 basketpacking bag*, coyote color - 
Waterproof Made in Canada basket bag that perfectly fits a wald 137. It has 
a bit of wear on the bottom of the bag and back, but the material is very 
abrasion proof so the photos make it worse that what it looks like. Its 
currently made by Rockgeist, but appears out of stock. *Asking $70 shipped.*

Collin, recovering from a broken rib so finally following up on this post, 
in Sacramento

On Sunday, March 6, 2022 at 7:38:57 PM UTC-8 Collin A wrote:

> Alright, the mini-panniers are sold, the other two bags are still up for 
> grabs:
>
> *Swift Zeitgeist Campandgoslow Edition* - Used for more 
> beach/Picnicpacking trips where it either contained the beer, the chairs, 
> or the lunches. It was a limited edition run with the orange cordura and 
> the pretty cool patch and the rattlesnake trim, and MUSA (which apparently 
> is no longer the case with swift industries :/).* Asking $200 + shipping*
>
> *Porcelain Rocket meanwhile 137 basketpacking bag*, coyote color - 
> Waterproof Made in Canada basket bag that perfectly fits a wald 137. It has 
> a bit of wear on the bottom of the bag and back, but the material is very 
> abrasion proof so the photos make it worse that what it looks like. Its 
> currently made by Rockgeist, but appears out of stock. *Asking $80 
> shipped.*
>
>
> On Sunday, March 6, 2022 at 5:14:42 PM UTC-8 Collin A wrote:
>
>> Folks,
>>
>> I'm continuing a purge of my storage closet, and have some camping bags 
>> that I haven't used in a bit that could use a new home as well. 
>>
>> Photos here (along with the hilibike parts on my other post):
>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/Xa3dF6DW7xUBm9Rj9
>>
>> *Framework Design Mini Panniers, navy* - These are a lovely and soft 
>> cotton/waxed canvas pair of mini panniers from a bag maker in Australia. 
>> Used for a couple S240s, but the packing setup has changed. They look great 
>> in person and would complement a nice Rivendell frame exquisitely well. It 
>> mounts to any 3-pack-style mounts on frames, forks, or racks. *Asking 
>> $100 + shipping*
>>
>> *Swift Zeitgeist Campandgoslow Edition* - Used for more 
>> beach/Picnicpacking trips where it either contained the beer, the chairs, 
>> or the lunches. It was a limited edition run with the orange cordura and 
>> the pretty cool patch and the rattlesnake trim, and MUSA (which apparently 
>> is no longer the case with swift industries :/).* Asking $200 + shipping*
>>
>> *Porcelain Rocket meanwhile 137 basketpacking bag*, coyote color - 
>> Waterproof Made in Canada basket bag that perfectly fits a wald 137. It has 
>> a bit of wear on the bottom of the bag and back, but the material is very 
>> abrasion proof so the photos make it worse that what it looks like. Its 
>> currently made by Rockgeist, but appears out of stock. *Asking $80 
>> shipped.*
>>
>> Cheers all,
>> Collin in Sactown
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS 1.5 Riv Sweaters and some hats

[Joe Bernard]

RBW Blue Lug hat back on the market, it doesn't look right on me, same $60 
shipped I paid Bones. 

Joe Bernard

On Sunday, March 13, 2022 at 6:26:34 PM UTC-7 Bones wrote:

> Both hats claimed, sweaters still available.
>
> Bones
>
> On Saturday, March 12, 2022 at 8:33:56 PM UTC-5 Bones wrote:
>
>> RBW hat has been claimed.
>>
>> Bones
>>
>> On Saturday, March 12, 2022 at 2:46:14 PM UTC-5 Bones wrote:
>>
>>> All items including shipping CONUS.
>>>
>>> Tragically, my new size large William and Ringo sweater from Riv's last 
>>> batch found it's way into the wash and is now even smaller than a medium. 
>>> It was worn once, and I will sell it for about half off (let's say $65 
>>> shipped).
>>>
>>> I also have a brand new never worn medium William and Ringo sweater. I 
>>> would like what I paid for it plus shipping ($120 shipped).
>>>
>>> A Blue Lug RBW cycle cap in coyote. Brand new; too large for my tiny 
>>> head ($60 shipped)
>>>
>>> A Blue Lug Work Hat in grey... also brand new and too large for me ($60 
>>> shipped)
>>>
>>> Thanks for looking!
>>> Bones
>>>
>>

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