[RBW] Re: 2017 Redlands Strada Rossa

[Doug Peterson]

Bummer.  This is such a special event.  I've noticed more aches'n'pains 
cropping up after "normal" rides.  Goes with the territory I guess.  

We'll see on the next one.

doug

On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 4:58:14 PM UTC-7, Mike Schiller wrote:
>
> Unfortunately I'm going to miss out on the ride Saturday.  I did a little 
> longer ride Monday and my hip is just not healed enough yet.
> Hope you all have a great time.
>
> mike
>
>
>>

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[RBW] Re: [socalallrounders] Re: 2017 Redlands Strada Rossa

[Doug Peterson]

Dave:

I'll be there with 7 of my local friends plus Hugh Smitham & perhaps Jim 
Warren will be there.  Also, there's a super secret 20 mile option that I 
convinced David to work out.  Your parents may be interested in that one 
but you are too young to qualify. :-).

doug  

On Saturday, March 4, 2017 at 9:27:31 PM UTC-8, David Carroll wrote:
>
> 100 km for Steph and I. 50 km for my folks. Steph is has Nanoraptor 2" set 
> up tubeless, so she is perfect. I don't want sore hands, so I will go 
> fatter than 40 probably. I had to log in as Steph to get her registration 
> completed; you can't register a secondary member of your account at the 
> same time you register yourself, so I had to use another browser and log in 
> her account.
>
> I will definitely, absolutely, with-a-doubt either put sealant in my tubes 
> or use tubeless wheels. After the multiple flats we got last time, no more! 
>  :). Despite the good rain we've been getting, I would discourage anyone 
> from taking a chance without sealant or slime.
>
> I texted you this morning, I wonder if your number may have changed...
> best, Dave
>
> On Saturday, March 4, 2017 at 9:13:34 PM UTC-8, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> Dave, glad you can come down! And making it a family affair! Hope the 
>> reg. process went okay... I heard from Carroll that it continues to be a 
>> hassle :-( Sorry... we will be changing it to Eventbrite or something else 
>> next year!
>>
>> I'd say go w/ something like a 2" Nanoraptor... the original! But yeah, 
>> people ride it on 25mm slicks, and 3" puffins. I'd avoid a tire with 
>> aggressive knobs. Fattest tire that rolls fast on the road is best. That's 
>> why I said Nanoraptor. The Nano40 is great as well, you'll just have sorer 
>> hands at the end!
>>
>> Doing the 100k or the 30 miler? Or the 90
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 8:52 PM, Dave C  wrote:
>>
>>> So who is definitely going? Last time I had a chance to meet Doug but 
>>> that was it. My wife and parents will be with me.We'll be most likely on 
>>> Fargos. Last year my wife rode it on a Romulus with 35 mm Paselas and I 
>>> used my Double Cross with the Gran Bois Cypres. We were absolutely 
>>> underbiking and will be on bigger tires for sure. I've been debating 
>>> between 40 mm Nanos and the 2.25" MTB tires. There was more soft sandy 
>>> sections and bumpy trails than I anticipated in 2016, so I'll be 
>>> prioritizing comfort.
>>>
>>> On Friday, September 9, 2016 at 11:02:18 PM UTC-7, cyclot...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Calendared it for March 18th!

 http://redlands-strada-rossa.blogspot.com/2016/09/march-18-2017.html

 Hope to see some familiar faces this spring!


 -- 
 Cheers,
 David

 Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace

 "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal



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>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Cheers,
>> David
>>
>> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace
>>
>> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>>
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: 2017 Redlands Strada Rossa

[Doug Peterson]

David:

Thanks a bunch!  Look forward to doing it.

doug

On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 8:59:34 AM UTC-8, cyclotourist wrote:
>
> FYI, working on a 20 mile option, with good dirt and less climbing. This 
> will be an off the books sort of thing to keep as a backup plan!
>
>
> On Friday, September 9, 2016 at 11:02:04 PM UTC-7, cyclotourist wrote:
>>
>> Calendared it for March 18th!
>>
>> http://redlands-strada-rossa.blogspot.com/2016/09/march-18-2017.html
>>
>> Hope to see some familiar faces this spring!
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Cheers,
>> David
>>
>> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace
>>
>> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>>
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: 2017 Redlands Strada Rossa

[Doug Peterson]

David:

Do you have links to the course maps?  Any changes from last year?

doug

On Friday, September 9, 2016 at 11:02:04 PM UTC-7, cyclotourist wrote:
>
> Calendared it for March 18th!
>
> http://redlands-strada-rossa.blogspot.com/2016/09/march-18-2017.html
>
> Hope to see some familiar faces this spring!
>
>
> -- 
> Cheers,
> David
>
> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace
>
> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: 2017 Redlands Strada Rossa

[Doug Peterson]

Just renewed membership & signed up for the 50 km distance.  I think that's 
the one Jim & I did last year & we short cut that.  I'll have to ponder 
bike choice.  Hugh, hope you get well by then.  

doug

On Friday, September 9, 2016 at 11:02:04 PM UTC-7, cyclotourist wrote:
>
> Calendared it for March 18th!
>
> http://redlands-strada-rossa.blogspot.com/2016/09/march-18-2017.html
>
> Hope to see some familiar faces this spring!
>
>
> -- 
> Cheers,
> David
>
> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace
>
> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: [socalallrounders] Re: 2017 Redlands Strada Rossa

[Doug Peterson]

"Family friendly event and location. It's a tough ride, but one you can 
tailor to your own preferences. Cut it short, ride extra, skip a dirt 
section, bail out early... whatever works for you! Multi-surface, with 
close to a 50/50 split of dirt and asphalt. Dirt is (mostly) all hard-pack 
smooth trail and roads are (mostly) lightly traveled. Come on out and see 
what all the fuss is about!"

One of the best features of this event!  Jim was kind enough to stick with 
me as I struggled on the dirt climbs last year & we bailed out before a big 
climbing section.  There were already a ton of people at the party so lots 
did the entire course faster.  Super fun event.  

doug

On Wednesday, December 21, 2016 at 3:12:38 PM UTC-8, cyclotourist wrote:
>
> Couple of updates, on a rainy December day (will be plenty of green in the 
> hills!). 
> We've confirmed that registration is opening on January first. 
> 
>  We're 
> planning on accommodating up to 500 riders (there were ~350 riders last 
> year). So a touch larger. Rain or shine event. 
>
> This time we will be staging it out of Ritual Brewing 
> , which has been an amazing and generous 
> sponsor & supporter for all four years. They have a large space, real 
> toilets, great brews as well non-alcoholic soda pop. Food is going to be 
> catered by a local food truck and along with a pint from Ritual, will be 
> included with registration. Cost will be $45-$65 depending on route. 
>
> There is also a FB 
> 
>  
> event page if that's your thing. 
>
> The event is a fundraiser the Inland Empire Biking Alliance 
> ... a non-profit local organization with 
> the mission of getting more people riding bikes... good people there!
>
> Family friendly event and location. It's a tough ride, but one you can 
> tailor to your own preferences. Cut it short, ride extra, skip a dirt 
> section, bail out early... whatever works for you! Multi-surface, with 
> close to a 50/50 split of dirt and asphalt. Dirt is (mostly) all hard-pack 
> smooth trail and roads are (mostly) lightly traveled. Come on out and see 
> what all the fuss is about!
>
> On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 7:45 PM, cyclotourist  > wrote:
>
>> Four year veteran!
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 10:29 AM, Esteban > > wrote:
>>
>>>  my calendar!!!
>>>
>>> Esteban
>>> San Diego, Calif.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, September 9, 2016 at 11:02:18 PM UTC-7, cyclot...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:

 Calendared it for March 18th!

 http://redlands-strada-rossa.blogspot.com/2016/09/march-18-2017.html

 Hope to see some familiar faces this spring!


 -- 
 Cheers,
 David

 Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace

 "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal



 -- 
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>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
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>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Cheers,
>> David
>>
>> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace
>>
>> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Cheers,
> David
>
> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace
>
> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: RBW Listers Take Over The West Point Inn, June 24 & 25 - Join us there!!!

[Doug Peterson]

Cancel that idea.  Only open to members on Sunday night.  Back to reality.

doug

On Friday, June 3, 2016 at 2:22:11 PM UTC-7, Doug Peterson wrote:
>
> Thinking about staying over Sunday night at the WPI.  The non-member rate 
> is quoted at $50 per person.  Anyone else thinking of hanging around an 
> extra day?  I have not called to check availability but will do so.  
>
> doug
>
> On Tuesday, May 24, 2016 at 8:54:57 AM UTC-7, cyclotourist wrote:
>>
>> And we're lighting up the no vacancy sign! Every bed is accounted for, 
>> which is pretty awesome! Working on menu items and Saturday route options.
>>
>> Saturday is 114% an open ride, we hope many of the locals can come out 
>> and ride around Marin with us for the day. Most likely riding trails from 
>> WPI down to Fairfax, touring the MTB museum, then meandering back up the 
>> hill. A casual pace will be maintained!
>>
>> Dinner is being cooked by Jacquie that evening, and everyone can join in 
>> on that, whether they are spending the night or not. It's encouraged and 
>> hoped for, actually!
>> More details to follow!
>>
>> Thanks to all who jumped on-board for this, it's actually falling into 
>> place perfectly!!!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, March 1, 2016 at 8:48:23 PM UTC-8, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> The Entmoot/Jamboree two years ago was a fantastic, grass-roots event 
>>> that everyone enjoyed and talked about for a while. It seemed like 
>>> everything really fell into place (except I had to leave early) for a 
>>> fantastic weekend. That enjoyable event got us thinking about something 
>>> similar. We talked about it, but nothing came of it. 
>>>
>>> Fast forward to last December when Hugh, Jim, and myself made a trip to 
>>> the West Point Inn <http://www.westpointinn.com/>, and had a phenomenal 
>>> time there celebrating Jacquie Phelan's (and Philip W's!) birthday. An 
>>> absolute blast.  We can't recreate those moments, but we want to have 
>>> another opportunity back at the Inn with any like minded folks to celebrate 
>>> life, life on a bicycle, the historical context, in one of the most 
>>> beautiful storied areas I can imagine. So with Jacquie's help we are 
>>> hosting a SoCal/NorCal get together in June!
>>>
>>> We have reserved the entire facility for those two nights, and want to 
>>> pack in as many people as we can. We hope many of you living in the Bay 
>>> Area that we don't get to visit can make it! Maybe even some people from 
>>> out of the area can make it there as well (Looking at you, PDXers)!
>>>
>>> The costs are very reasonable. For the two nights, it is $2,400. If we 
>>> can get 30 of us, it will be $80 a person. Throw in another $20-50 for 
>>> Saturday night dinner and breakfast, and you're looking at a bit less than 
>>> $150 at most for a unique two night experience in a very special (magical 
>>> even!) place. I/we hope many of you can come.
>>>
>>> For those not able to do the whole stay, we are planning on a Saturday 
>>> ramble of a ride, followed by the above-mentioned dinner.  Thinking the 
>>> Pine Mountain Loop, Repack to Fairfax to the Marin Museum of Bicycling back 
>>> to the Inn. Plenty of alternative routes if someone doesn't want to do 
>>> that. Just kind of a cool way to really take advantage of what the area has 
>>> to offer.  So for sure, plan on being there for the ride and dinner! 
>>> We'll figure out a cost per person for just the dinner, it won't be much. 
>>> Won't even worry about it if it's just a few people, but hoping to get a 
>>> decent sized group there.
>>>
>>> Dinner Friday night is potluck. Sat a.m. breakfast leftovers and 
>>> communal pancakes or similar. Sat lunch on your own. Sat dinner 
>>> provided. Sun breakfast leftovers/communal. Pretty low key. We're hoping to 
>>> have some beer provided, but everyone bring a six pack or bottle of your 
>>> favorite is a way to do it as well.
>>>
>>> Sleeping arrangements are somewhere in the range of hostel level. Four 
>>> to five beds per room. Bring sheets or a bag, clean your own room, do the 
>>> dishes, sweep the floors arrangement. Not plush, but it ain't camping. 
>>>
>>> Here are my pics from the weekend I was up there: 
>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/albums/72157661872299170
>>>
>>> Hugh's thoughts 

[RBW] Re: RBW Listers Take Over The West Point Inn, June 24 & 25 - Join us there!!!

[Doug Peterson]

Thinking about staying over Sunday night at the WPI.  The non-member rate 
is quoted at $50 per person.  Anyone else thinking of hanging around an 
extra day?  I have not called to check availability but will do so.  

doug

On Tuesday, May 24, 2016 at 8:54:57 AM UTC-7, cyclotourist wrote:
>
> And we're lighting up the no vacancy sign! Every bed is accounted for, 
> which is pretty awesome! Working on menu items and Saturday route options.
>
> Saturday is 114% an open ride, we hope many of the locals can come out and 
> ride around Marin with us for the day. Most likely riding trails from WPI 
> down to Fairfax, touring the MTB museum, then meandering back up the hill. 
> A casual pace will be maintained!
>
> Dinner is being cooked by Jacquie that evening, and everyone can join in 
> on that, whether they are spending the night or not. It's encouraged and 
> hoped for, actually!
> More details to follow!
>
> Thanks to all who jumped on-board for this, it's actually falling into 
> place perfectly!!!
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, March 1, 2016 at 8:48:23 PM UTC-8, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> The Entmoot/Jamboree two years ago was a fantastic, grass-roots event 
>> that everyone enjoyed and talked about for a while. It seemed like 
>> everything really fell into place (except I had to leave early) for a 
>> fantastic weekend. That enjoyable event got us thinking about something 
>> similar. We talked about it, but nothing came of it. 
>>
>> Fast forward to last December when Hugh, Jim, and myself made a trip to 
>> the West Point Inn , and had a phenomenal 
>> time there celebrating Jacquie Phelan's (and Philip W's!) birthday. An 
>> absolute blast.  We can't recreate those moments, but we want to have 
>> another opportunity back at the Inn with any like minded folks to celebrate 
>> life, life on a bicycle, the historical context, in one of the most 
>> beautiful storied areas I can imagine. So with Jacquie's help we are 
>> hosting a SoCal/NorCal get together in June!
>>
>> We have reserved the entire facility for those two nights, and want to 
>> pack in as many people as we can. We hope many of you living in the Bay 
>> Area that we don't get to visit can make it! Maybe even some people from 
>> out of the area can make it there as well (Looking at you, PDXers)!
>>
>> The costs are very reasonable. For the two nights, it is $2,400. If we 
>> can get 30 of us, it will be $80 a person. Throw in another $20-50 for 
>> Saturday night dinner and breakfast, and you're looking at a bit less than 
>> $150 at most for a unique two night experience in a very special (magical 
>> even!) place. I/we hope many of you can come.
>>
>> For those not able to do the whole stay, we are planning on a Saturday 
>> ramble of a ride, followed by the above-mentioned dinner.  Thinking the 
>> Pine Mountain Loop, Repack to Fairfax to the Marin Museum of Bicycling back 
>> to the Inn. Plenty of alternative routes if someone doesn't want to do 
>> that. Just kind of a cool way to really take advantage of what the area has 
>> to offer.  So for sure, plan on being there for the ride and dinner! 
>> We'll figure out a cost per person for just the dinner, it won't be much. 
>> Won't even worry about it if it's just a few people, but hoping to get a 
>> decent sized group there.
>>
>> Dinner Friday night is potluck. Sat a.m. breakfast leftovers and communal 
>> pancakes or similar. Sat lunch on your own. Sat dinner provided. Sun 
>> breakfast leftovers/communal. Pretty low key. We're hoping to have some 
>> beer provided, but everyone bring a six pack or bottle of your favorite is 
>> a way to do it as well.
>>
>> Sleeping arrangements are somewhere in the range of hostel level. Four to 
>> five beds per room. Bring sheets or a bag, clean your own room, do the 
>> dishes, sweep the floors arrangement. Not plush, but it ain't camping. 
>>
>> Here are my pics from the weekend I was up there: 
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/albums/72157661872299170
>>
>> Hugh's thoughts on the subject: 
>> http://velocipeedemusings.com/2016/01/13/misty-mountain-celebration-with-a-legend-a-mount-tam-experience/
>>  
>>
>> Logistics to follow. Leaning toward collecting using checks vs. using 
>> Paypal. I can just sit on them and cash them all at once. For food 
>> budgeting I'd rather go over a bit on individual cost and donate any excess 
>> to the Inn (nonprofit) or to Charlie's medical expenses. Will be very 
>> transparent, but money is touchy of course. If we can't get to 30 people, 
>> the cost per person will go up accordingly. 
>>
>> Reminder that the Inn is a hike/bike facility only, and there is no 
>> on-site parking for guests (ADA access is available). Closest parking is at 
>> the Pantoll campground/day use area, two miles down the trail 
>> . I think parking is $8/day there.
>>
>> The only thing we ask is commitment. Nobody is prepared to go back and 
>> forth with f

[RBW] Re: [socalallrounders] Re: Strada Rossa March 19th... you all are invited!

[Doug Peterson]

Lots of fun!  Looks like Nils rode with the photog.  This one is a keeper 
for future promotions.

doug

On Sunday, March 27, 2016 at 10:50:15 PM UTC-7, cyclotourist wrote:
>
> Here's the first video I've seen of the ride: 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPtJGuNLGyY
>
> Rivendell sighting @ the 10:24 mark!
>
> On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 7:35 PM, Doug Peterson  > wrote:
>
>> That is really well written.  Sounds like an LA-centric type surprised to 
>> find something so interesting out there on the edge of civilization.  But 
>> good natured enough about the whole experience to admit being 
>> under-equipped; either too light tires or not enough tubes.  They sound 
>> like a fun group who has been introduced to a whole new area.  "Adventure 
>> ride" is the perfect description.  I like Mark's comments at the end, too.  
>>
>> I always have a great time in "dirtville".  Sand, gravel, water 
>> crossings, rattle snakes, jambalaya, beer, good friends & good times.
>>
>> doug
>>
>> On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 3:46:30 PM UTC-7, cyclotourist wrote:
>>>
>>> Here's one of the first write ups I've seen. Really positive, I think 
>>> they captured the nature of the day: 
>>>
>>> http://redkiteprayer.com/2016/03/salvaging-the-day/ 
>>>
>>> On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 7:42 PM, cyclotourist  
>>> wrote: 
>>> > Everyone, thanks for coming out! I ran into Richard and Arnold for a 
>>> bit out 
>>> > there as well (Arnold on the Riv custom, not sure what Richard was 
>>> on). 
>>> > Thanks for everyone that made the drive down our way, I hope it was a 
>>> day of 
>>> > adventure and enjoyment! 
>>> > If any of you have a sec, give the good people a the IEBA a shout out 
>>> on FB: 
>>> > 
>>> https://www.facebook.com/Inland-Empire-Biking-Alliance-156207984434074/timeline?ref=page_internal
>>>  
>>> > 
>>> > I didn't take many pics, just sort of went minute by minute getting 
>>> through 
>>> > the day. Here are the ones tagged on IG though: 
>>> > https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/redlandsstradarossa/ and 
>>> > https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/stradarossa/ 
>>> > 
>>> > Missed Philip, Esteban, Curtis, Ian and Paul! We do have a new longest 
>>> > distance traveled to get there person, he made the trip from 
>>> Switzerland and 
>>> > said he'll be back next year! 
>>> > https://www.instagram.com/p/BDKeZTOtSfg/?taken-by=aswisswithapulse 
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Hugh Smitham  
>>> wrote: 
>>> >> 
>>> >> Doug, 
>>> >> 
>>> >> It was an awesome day. Hanging out with the Estes family you, Jim and 
>>> the 
>>> >> amazing folks who turned out for this fabulous event made my month. 
>>> >> 
>>> >> I'm working on a write up too so I'll keep it short. 
>>> >> 
>>> >> Looking towards RSR IV. 
>>> >> 
>>> >> ~Hugh 
>>> >> 
>>> >> On Mar 20, 2016 10:49 AM, "Doug Peterson"  wrote: 
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> Post event comments:  A good time was had by all.  Met Dave Carroll 
>>> & his 
>>> >>> wife @ registration but missed them at the party.  Hung out with 
>>> David, 
>>> >>> waiting for Hugh & Jim.  Found the chocolate shop, next door to Bike 
>>> BBQ. 
>>> >>> Hugh, Jm & I set out on the 50k route.  Plenty of climbing & 
>>> off-roading, 
>>> >>> plus one interesting "lug your bike down over the boulders, cross 
>>> the creek, 
>>> >>> and lug it back up the other side".  One of the caveats of a David 
>>> ride is 
>>> >>> "bring a bike that you can carry".  Jim & I chugged along a a 
>>> leisurely 
>>> >>> pace, getting to the water stop on Hwy 38 as they were thinking 
>>> about 
>>> >>> closing up.  After that it was uphill on 38 for a bit to a turnoff 
>>> that went 
>>> >>> even more uphill to 38 special which was REALLY uphill!  As in 
>>> pushing my 
>>> >>> bike most of the time for an hour.  We did lose some time at the 
>>> rattlesnake 
>>> >>> crossi

[RBW] Re: [socalallrounders] Re: Strada Rossa March 19th... you all are invited!

[Doug Peterson]

That is really well written.  Sounds like an LA-centric type surprised to 
find something so interesting out there on the edge of civilization.  But 
good natured enough about the whole experience to admit being 
under-equipped; either too light tires or not enough tubes.  They sound 
like a fun group who has been introduced to a whole new area.  "Adventure 
ride" is the perfect description.  I like Mark's comments at the end, too.  

I always have a great time in "dirtville".  Sand, gravel, water crossings, 
rattle snakes, jambalaya, beer, good friends & good times.

doug

On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 3:46:30 PM UTC-7, cyclotourist wrote:
>
> Here's one of the first write ups I've seen. Really positive, I think 
> they captured the nature of the day: 
>
> http://redkiteprayer.com/2016/03/salvaging-the-day/ 
>
> On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 7:42 PM, cyclotourist  > wrote: 
> > Everyone, thanks for coming out! I ran into Richard and Arnold for a bit 
> out 
> > there as well (Arnold on the Riv custom, not sure what Richard was on). 
> > Thanks for everyone that made the drive down our way, I hope it was a 
> day of 
> > adventure and enjoyment! 
> > If any of you have a sec, give the good people a the IEBA a shout out on 
> FB: 
> > 
> https://www.facebook.com/Inland-Empire-Biking-Alliance-156207984434074/timeline?ref=page_internal
>  
> > 
> > I didn't take many pics, just sort of went minute by minute getting 
> through 
> > the day. Here are the ones tagged on IG though: 
> > https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/redlandsstradarossa/ and 
> > https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/stradarossa/ 
> > 
> > Missed Philip, Esteban, Curtis, Ian and Paul! We do have a new longest 
> > distance traveled to get there person, he made the trip from Switzerland 
> and 
> > said he'll be back next year! 
> > https://www.instagram.com/p/BDKeZTOtSfg/?taken-by=aswisswithapulse 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Hugh Smitham  > wrote: 
> >> 
> >> Doug, 
> >> 
> >> It was an awesome day. Hanging out with the Estes family you, Jim and 
> the 
> >> amazing folks who turned out for this fabulous event made my month. 
> >> 
> >> I'm working on a write up too so I'll keep it short. 
> >> 
> >> Looking towards RSR IV. 
> >> 
> >> ~Hugh 
> >> 
> >> On Mar 20, 2016 10:49 AM, "Doug Peterson"  > wrote: 
> >>> 
> >>> Post event comments:  A good time was had by all.  Met Dave Carroll & 
> his 
> >>> wife @ registration but missed them at the party.  Hung out with 
> David, 
> >>> waiting for Hugh & Jim.  Found the chocolate shop, next door to Bike 
> BBQ. 
> >>> Hugh, Jm & I set out on the 50k route.  Plenty of climbing & 
> off-roading, 
> >>> plus one interesting "lug your bike down over the boulders, cross the 
> creek, 
> >>> and lug it back up the other side".  One of the caveats of a David 
> ride is 
> >>> "bring a bike that you can carry".  Jim & I chugged along a a 
> leisurely 
> >>> pace, getting to the water stop on Hwy 38 as they were thinking about 
> >>> closing up.  After that it was uphill on 38 for a bit to a turnoff 
> that went 
> >>> even more uphill to 38 special which was REALLY uphill!  As in pushing 
> my 
> >>> bike most of the time for an hour.  We did lose some time at the 
> rattlesnake 
> >>> crossing, letting the snake wander off at his own pace.  Finally at 
> the top, 
> >>> with commanding views of the whole area and seeing some snow still on 
> the 
> >>> upper peaks, it was all downhill to Crafton College.  By that time 
> Hugh had 
> >>> called to say he was done so Jim & I took the clue to take a direct 
> route 
> >>> back to Redlands and skip the Oakmont section.  With the recent rains 
> & warm 
> >>> days, the hills were incredibly green and lush & the trails in pretty 
> good 
> >>> shape.  I got a total of 29 miles, shy of the 35 on the route slip but 
> "good 
> >>> enough".  Most of those are quality miles. 
> >>> 
> >>> Post ride party continues to improve every year.  Lots of tables & 
> chairs 
> >>> this year, with a variety of foods & choice of beers.  I've now got my 
> 3rd 
> >>> Strada Rossa mug plus a fresh T-shirt.  Met some great people, 
> including a 
> >>> guy who did the 100

[RBW] Re: Strada Rossa March 19th... you all are invited!

[Doug Peterson]

Post event comments:  A good time was had by all.  Met Dave Carroll & his 
wife @ registration but missed them at the party.  Hung out with David, 
waiting for Hugh & Jim.  Found the chocolate shop, next door to Bike BBQ.  
Hugh, Jm & I set out on the 50k route.  Plenty of climbing & off-roading, 
plus one interesting "lug your bike down over the boulders, cross the 
creek, and lug it back up the other side".  One of the caveats of a David 
ride is "bring a bike that you can carry".  Jim & I chugged along a a 
leisurely pace, getting to the water stop on Hwy 38 as they were thinking 
about closing up.  After that it was uphill on 38 for a bit to a turnoff 
that went even more uphill to 38 special which was REALLY uphill!  As in 
pushing my bike most of the time for an hour.  We did lose some time at the 
rattlesnake crossing, letting the snake wander off at his own pace.  
Finally at the top, with commanding views of the whole area and seeing some 
snow still on the upper peaks, it was all downhill to Crafton College.  By 
that time Hugh had called to say he was done so Jim & I took the clue to 
take a direct route back to Redlands and skip the Oakmont section.  With 
the recent rains & warm days, the hills were incredibly green and lush & 
the trails in pretty good shape.  I got a total of 29 miles, shy of the 35 
on the route slip but "good enough".  Most of those are quality miles.  

Post ride party continues to improve every year.  Lots of tables & chairs 
this year, with a variety of foods & choice of beers.  I've now got my 3rd 
Strada Rossa mug plus a fresh T-shirt.  Met some great people, including a 
guy who did the 100 mile ride on a single speed.  Some people just love to 
make a tough event even tougher.  I left as the second band was getting 
going & the party seemed to be settling in for the evening.  Looking 
forward to further explorations in the area.  David, heal up, get back in 
shape & plan a fall ride.

doug

On Saturday, November 7, 2015 at 9:08:19 PM UTC-8, cyclotourist wrote:
>
>
> http://redlands-strada-rossa.blogspot.com/2015/11/were-putting-stake-in-it-march-19-2016.html
>
> A very Rivendell-friendly event! Hope to see some of you there!
>
> -- 
> Cheers,
> David
>
> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace
>
> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: [socalallrounders] Re: Strada Rossa March 19th... you all are invited!

[Doug Peterson]

David:

Now that's a bummer.  We'll pester you for details next weekend but the 
pictures tell the tale.  Fear & lack of current experience drive my caution 
on dirt. Heal up quickly.  

doug 

On Thursday, March 10, 2016 at 7:25:05 AM UTC-8, cyclotourist wrote:
>
> Yeah, sitting on their patio with a pint is a nice passtime, isn't it! 
> We've actually changed even more since that posting, and aren't going into 
> that area at all. This way we get all those thirsty riders buying our 
> donated beer from Ritual Brewing  at the 
> end
>
> 38 Special is such a nice climb, but it's 20 miles into it by that 
> point... low gears are good! The 100 milers are going to have some crazy 
> amounts of elevation!!!
>
> BTW, I'm out of commission for awhile: 
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/25362023650/ 
> Bad timing for broken bones...
>
> On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 2:35 PM, > wrote:
>
>>
>>> *We're going clockwise this year, so Hangar's up front*. Actually not 
>>> on the course this year. But on the 100k route, Brew Rebellion 
>>>  in Yucaipa is a fine choice! They open 
>>> at noon!
>>>
>>>  
>> I didn't catch that the first time I read it.  It was a PERFECT pit stop 
>> last year.  
>>
>> I got the new cluster in today, 11-40T mated with a RoadLink.  I figure 
>> I'd give the old, aching knees a chance to spin up 38 Special and into 
>> Wildwood Canyon.
>>
>> -- 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
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>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Cheers,
> David
>
> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace
>
> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: [socalallrounders] Re: Strada Rossa March 19th... you all are invited!

[Doug Peterson]

Some people can't get enough of a good thing.  

doug

On Monday, March 7, 2016 at 9:57:07 AM UTC-8, cyclotourist wrote:
>
> The 100 mile route is now closed! 
>
>
> http://redlands-strada-rossa.blogspot.com/2016/03/imperial-century-signups-are-closed.html
>
>
>
> On Saturday, March 5, 2016 at 7:35:44 PM UTC-8, cyclotourist wrote:
>>
>> Awesome! 
>>
>> I really talk it up here (SCAR, RBW) as I think it's a great all-rounder 
>> sort of a ride. Sorry if I go on too much/often...
>> Rivendell bikes are absolutely perfect for it though, from the 
>> Rambouillet to the Hunq, they will all be fine. And I think the Riv-rider 
>> mentality is spot on for something like this. Go out, ride the bike you've 
>> got, explore, see what you run into, when you're done figure a way back 
>> home and have a great meal! 
>>
>> Plus I get to see my friends, so it's a win-win-win!!!
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 5, 2016 at 6:34 PM, Ado Lucas > > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> After too much planning, then hesitation, then worries,  I decided just 
>>> to register and just do it. Then suddenly the hesitation and worries 
>>> suddenly disappeared :-)
>>>
>>> Now the next problem is how to tell my Boss.
>>>
>>> See yah on the 19th
>>>
>>> Amado
>>>

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>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Cheers,
>> David
>>
>> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace
>>
>> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>>
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Strada Rossa March 19th... you all are invited!

[Doug Peterson]

RE: Parking - David, last year RSR had worked out parking close to the 
start.  Is it the same this year?  IIRC it was the parking lot for a mall 
that seemed to have a parking surplus.  I reviewed the various postings but 
didn't see anything about parking.  

doug

On Saturday, November 7, 2015 at 9:08:19 PM UTC-8, cyclotourist wrote:
>
>
> http://redlands-strada-rossa.blogspot.com/2015/11/were-putting-stake-in-it-march-19-2016.html
>
> A very Rivendell-friendly event! Hope to see some of you there!
>
> -- 
> Cheers,
> David
>
> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace
>
> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Strada Rossa March 19th... you all are invited!

[Doug Peterson]

Kathy:

Surprises turn a ride into an adventure.  Snow or ice is unlikely on RSR, 
and David will make sure the trails are carefully groomed to remove any 
large blockages.  So maybe a more tame adventure.  OTOH, ya never know.  
Sounds like you're hooked on this quirky little corner of the biking 
world.  See you in Redlands.

doug

On Tuesday, March 1, 2016 at 8:54:03 AM UTC-8, kathys...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Well, I may just be in for some surprises.  But I'm sure it will be an 
> adventure & a great day.  
>
> A little off-topic, but I think appropriate re "surprises" - Chuck and I 
> went on our first ride on a Wrightwood fire road.  We parked our car at 
> Grassy Hollow and arranged for Dave to pick us up at Jackson Lake. He told 
> us exactly how to follow the roads and guessed it would be an hour ride for 
> us.  And we told him to send help if we didn't show up eventually.  We 
> really had no idea where we were going and at one point thought we might 
> have taken the wrong turn, but we didn't.  It did take us about 45 minutes 
> extra, but I think we had good excuses.  After all our warm weather, I had 
> assured Chuck the roads had to be clear.  So we were pretty surprised when 
> we hit our first ice patch (and remember, we didn't know if we were on the 
> right trail - we were though).  The ice patch in the photo was the first of 
> about 15, most very slippery and unrideable.  But we were really surprised 
> to find the tree down on the trail.  That was so much fun I can't wait to 
> do it again.  I'm sure the scenery was beautiful all around me, but I was 
> pretty busy avoiding all the rocks on the trail.  
>
> My Riv-riding kids never explained to me what a total difference the 
> "right" bike can make.  I'm about 2 weeks shy of my Cheviot first 
> anniversary and that purchase made me realize that I actually might like 
> riding on the dirt trails in Wrightwood and that it was worth buying a 
> mountain bike to test that out.  Only took me 23 1/2 years of living here 
> to figure that one out.  
>
>
>
>
> On Monday, February 29, 2016 at 8:25:15 PM UTC-8, Doug Peterson wrote:
>
>> Kathy:
>>
>> Sorry but this isn't Melanie's sort of ride.  She's a bit leery of 
>> unpaved roads.  We'll have a good group of 50k riders anyway.  Jim Warren & 
>> I have never set any speed records but we can polish of a pint fairly 
>> quickly.  
>>
>> doug
>>
>> On Monday, February 29, 2016 at 1:51:37 PM UTC-8, kathys...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I just registered Chuck and myself for the 50K (next year I'll get him 
>>> to do the 100K).  Dave and Steph are registered for the 100K so it will be 
>>> a major Wrightwood contingency.  
>>> I'm really excited for my first official "ride".  And it will be a 
>>> really special day as the 2 guys share the 19th as their birthday.  
>>>
>>> Doug - please tell Melanie I registered.  Does the 50K count for her 
>>> commitment to ride if I did?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Saturday, November 7, 2015 at 9:08:19 PM UTC-8, cyclotourist wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://redlands-strada-rossa.blogspot.com/2015/11/were-putting-stake-in-it-march-19-2016.html
>>>>
>>>> A very Rivendell-friendly event! Hope to see some of you there!
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace
>>>>
>>>> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>

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[RBW] Re: Strada Rossa March 19th... you all are invited!

[Doug Peterson]

Kathy:

Sorry but this isn't Melanie's sort of ride.  She's a bit leery of unpaved 
roads.  We'll have a good group of 50k riders anyway.  Jim Warren & I have 
never set any speed records but we can polish of a pint fairly quickly.  

doug

On Monday, February 29, 2016 at 1:51:37 PM UTC-8, kathys...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I just registered Chuck and myself for the 50K (next year I'll get him to 
> do the 100K).  Dave and Steph are registered for the 100K so it will be a 
> major Wrightwood contingency.  
> I'm really excited for my first official "ride".  And it will be a really 
> special day as the 2 guys share the 19th as their birthday.  
>
> Doug - please tell Melanie I registered.  Does the 50K count for her 
> commitment to ride if I did?
>
>
> On Saturday, November 7, 2015 at 9:08:19 PM UTC-8, cyclotourist wrote:
>
>>
>> http://redlands-strada-rossa.blogspot.com/2015/11/were-putting-stake-in-it-march-19-2016.html
>>
>> A very Rivendell-friendly event! Hope to see some of you there!
>>
>> -- 
>> Cheers,
>> David
>>
>> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace
>>
>> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>>
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: [socalallrounders] Re: Strada Rossa March 19th... you all are invited!

[Doug Peterson]

That photo should go into the IEBA permanent file for marketing purposes.  
It's great!  And thanks for pre-running the course & picking up all those 
nasty goatheads.  I've got Phil's patch on my front bag anyway.  Ya never 
know!

doug

On Monday, February 15, 2016 at 7:32:26 PM UTC-8, cyclotourist wrote:
>
> David, sorry to not have replied to you sooner... life happens sometimes.
>
> I'm ecstatic you and your wife can make it! It's practically in your back 
> yard, right! The 100km is the signature event, so it's the one to shoot for 
> in my opinion! 
>
> You brought up two related question. The first is about your tires. The 
> Nano/Knard combo will be fine. Anything more than 40mm is unnecessary. 
> As the second question is about bikes/tires, I'll add that like Mike 
> mentioned, some light knobbie tread will be really appreciated. So 
> whichever bike she brings I think she'll be happier with the tire that has 
> some knobs. That and whichever frame she will be most comfortable on for 
> six+ hours. Oh, and gearing for hills. 
>
> I don't think goatheads are going to be a big problem. I've been 
> pre-riding with my my road bike on Challenge Eroicas, which are pretty thin 
> rubber. No problems. So don't choose a tire just for puncture resistance. 
> Pick the tire for the terrain: 30 miles of roads, and 30 miles of hardpack. 
> A few short sand sections. As insurance, taking out the valve core and 
> putting a couple ounces of Stans wouldn't hurt at all. I'd do that before 
> tire liners. In fact, that is what I do!
>
> So don't know if that helped clear things up for you. I hope some. 
> Anything else, definitely let me know!
>
> Was out in the hills today, and it's beautiful!
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 6:34 PM, 'Mike Schiller' via SoCal All Rounders 
> (SCAR) > wrote:
>
>> I rode it two years ago on Hetres.  They were very fast but less stable 
>> in the singletrack sections and my background is MTB racing. This time I'm 
>> going to run a low knobbed tire like the Panaracer 40mm Gravelking.I 
>> think your wife would better off on the Romulus with some 36-38mm low knob 
>> tires than the Glorius.  
>>
>> I'll be riding the 100km course as well.
>>
>> ~mike
>> Carlsbad Ca
>>
>> On Monday, February 15, 2016 at 2:42:08 PM UTC-8, David Carroll wrote:
>>>
>>> David, everybody,
>>>
>>> Just registered my wife and I for the 100km. We thought about the 
>>> English century, but we have to arrange babysitting and bring the kids down 
>>> to Redlands. A hundred miler might take too much time. Probably my mom (KC) 
>>> and dad will participate in the half-metric event.
>>>
>>> I've never been on the course, but it seems these trails around there 
>>> are a bit smoother than our fire roads, which are rutted, rocky things that 
>>> most people tackle with 29ers, Jeeps, and lifted trucks. Would a 41 mm 
>>> Knard / 40 mm Nano combo on my Soma Double Cross be fine? Not overkill, I 
>>> hope. My wife has to decide between her Glorius, Romulus, or 29er. She has 
>>> Hetres on the Glorius, and if she takes it I thought we might want to put 
>>> in tire liners. I don't get a ton of thorns here in the San Gabriels, but I 
>>> hear goat heads are more common around Redlands.
>>>
>>> Any suggestions would be appreciated. We like to ride fast and light 
>>> when possible, but I'm not looking to get any "under-biking awards"  :)
>>>
>>> Dave in Wrightwood
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Saturday, November 7, 2015 at 9:08:22 PM UTC-8, cyclot...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:


 http://redlands-strada-rossa.blogspot.com/2015/11/were-putting-stake-in-it-march-19-2016.html

 A very Rivendell-friendly event! Hope to see some of you there!

 -- 
 Cheers,
 David

 Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace

 "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal



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>
>
>
> -- 
> Cheers,
> David
>
> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace
>
> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Strada Rossa March 19th... you all are invited!

[Doug Peterson]

David in Wrightwood:

Goatheads are a serious problem so tire up as best you can.  I've used 40mm 
Schwalbe Marathon Supremes on my Atlantis out there & not had any flats 
(knock wood).  The trails are in good shape, not a lot of ruts or other 
damage.  People do this ride on everything from skinny tired racing bikes 
to serious MTBs.  I'll leave it to David E to comment on your bike choices 
but it sounds like you've got plenty of options that'll work.  

doug

On Monday, February 15, 2016 at 2:42:08 PM UTC-8, David Carroll wrote:
>
> David, everybody,
>
> Just registered my wife and I for the 100km. We thought about the English 
> century, but we have to arrange babysitting and bring the kids down to 
> Redlands. A hundred miler might take too much time. Probably my mom (KC) 
> and dad will participate in the half-metric event.
>
> I've never been on the course, but it seems the trails around there are a 
> bit smoother than our fire roads, which are rutted, rocky things that most 
> people tackle with 29ers, Jeeps, and lifted trucks. Would a 41 mm Knard / 
> 40 mm Nano combo on my Soma Double Cross be fine? Not overkill, I hope. My 
> wife has to decide between her Glorius, Romulus, or 29er. She has Hetres on 
> the Glorius, and if she takes it I thought we might want to put in tire 
> liners. I don't get a ton of thorns here in the San Gabriels, but I hear 
> goat heads are more common around Redlands.
>
> Any suggestions would be appreciated. We like to ride fast and light when 
> possible, but I'm not looking to get any "under-biking awards"  :)
>
> Dave in Wrightwood
>
>
>
> On Saturday, November 7, 2015 at 9:08:22 PM UTC-8, cyclot...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>>
>>
>> http://redlands-strada-rossa.blogspot.com/2015/11/were-putting-stake-in-it-march-19-2016.html
>>
>> A very Rivendell-friendly event! Hope to see some of you there!
>>
>> -- 
>> Cheers,
>> David
>>
>> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace
>>
>> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>>
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Strada Rossa March 19th... you all are invited!

[Doug Peterson]

"Don't worry about not having the "right" bike... just run what you brung 
and have a good time."

And that's the truth.  My Atlantis did just fine.  I got passed by people 
on carbonic skinny tired racing bikes and people on serious looking MTBs.  
Anything works.  Whatever you're most comfortable riding.  Of course, the 
stop at Hangar 24 was at a welcome distance, and good timing since we had 
mis-placed the route a bit.  The apres' ride party is great fun too.

doug

On Monday, December 21, 2015 at 6:13:11 PM UTC-8, cyclotourist wrote:
>
> For those of you that participated last year, I hope you've checked your 
> email! Pre-reg is open and ready to go for all three routes. English 
> century, metric century (~62 miles), and metric half century (~30 miles).
>
> For newbies, you can register on the IEBA site here: 
> http://www.iebikingalliance.org/content.aspx?page_id=87&club_id=961736&item_id=483217
>  
> While not required, it is hoped that you will join the IEBA which will lead 
> to the discounted registration. It also bumps up our numbers, which is a 
> HUGE bonus for any sort of an advocacy group. Fees have gone up a small 
> bit, but while we make a little money on this, the idea is to have a great 
> time, get people on bikes, show them the riding in Redlands and the IE, and 
> yes, grow the IEBA rolls.
>
> I'm hugely self-promoting this, but I really think it's one of the best 
> times you can have on two wheels. Don't worry about not having the "right" 
> bike... just run what you brung and have a good time. The 100 mile route is 
> going to be challenging. The 50km route will be pretty easy. The 100km 
> route is my favorite and will have the best we have to offer!
>
> We need volunteers, particularly for the English century portion. If you 
> know of friends, family, businesses, or organizations that would like to 
> staff an aid station, please put them in contact with me. cyclot... @
> gmail.com
>
> And as you know, social media is what pushes things. Please feel free to 
> forward via the various books, grams, and chirps! Updates will be posted 
> regularly on the RSR blog .
>
> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 9:08 PM, cyclotourist  > wrote:
>
>>
>> http://redlands-strada-rossa.blogspot.com/2015/11/were-putting-stake-in-it-march-19-2016.html
>>
>> A very Rivendell-friendly event! Hope to see some of you there!
>>
>> -- 
>> Cheers,
>> David
>>
>> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace
>>
>> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Cheers,
> David
>
> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace
>
> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: A Long Weekend in Marin (Jacquie Phelan's 60th Birthday Party Extravaganza)

[Doug Peterson]

David:

You've done a wonderful job of capturing the weekend in those photos.  
There is something magical about Northern California.  I'd welcome a follow 
up event for the chance to ride those trails.  The West Point looks quite 
inviting, would love to stay there.  Let's keep that idea bubbling away.

doug

On Sunday, December 20, 2015 at 6:11:37 PM UTC-8, cyclotourist wrote:
>
> A touch late on posting this, but have tho share what a great time I had 
> up in Marin recently! Last weekend, Jacquie Phelan (Alice B. Toeclips to 
> many) invited a few of us from SoCal up to her 60th birthday party she was 
> throwing for herself. It was being held at the West Point Inn 
> . She's a member in good standing, and 
> rented the entire facility out for Friday and Saturday night. 
>
> It ended up being myself, Hugh, and James W. that drove up on Friday. A 
> little bit of rain just north of LA, and then clear sailing the rest of the 
> way up. We arrived a bit late, but met up with Jacquie, a bunch of her 
> long-term friends, and Philip W at the Inn. And WHAT a great time we had. 
> An amazing facility for just hanging out, sleeping in, eating and drinking 
> well (Jackquie went to school w/ Sierra Nevada people) and yeah, riding 
> bikes.
>
> We hung out late that night talking by the fire. Met some real great 
> people there. Jacquie's husband, Charlie Cunningham, was there earlier, but 
> had left by the time we made it up. He is the man that was injured recently 
> that has the gofundme site stickied on this list. At least 30 other people 
> were there. Most from the immediate vicinity, four from Napa, and then the 
> three of us from SoCal. Can't say enough how pleasant it was that evening, 
> amongst 30 people you were pretty much best friends with already, but just 
> didn't know it!
>
> After left-overs for breakfast, some more hanging out, we jumped on the 
> Coastal Trail and headed out for a ride! Lunch at the Pelican Inn 
>  at Muir Beach. Then a bit of a climb, back 
> up and through Muir grove to Pantoll and the Inn. Philip pulled off to head 
> to another birthday party (his!), leaving the three of us to enjoy a 
> fantastic catered meal by yet another of Jacquie's friends! Fell asleep to 
> an incoming storm, and wisps of clouds blowing through the open windows of 
> the porch I was sleeping on! 
>
> Another breakfast there with more delicious leftovers, packing up, saying 
> good byes, and a fun ride in the rain back down to our cars at Pantoll. 
> Eight hours later, it was all over! Even found an awesome back route 
> bypassing the Altamont Pass (Patterson Pass Rd) on the way back!
>
> I hope Hugh and Jim will chime in with their impressions. Here are my 
> photos from the weekend: 
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/albums/72157661872299170 
> I took a lot, as I really wanted to document the event, and convey my 
> experiences there!
>
> Only thing I would have done differently is try to get some more of y'all 
> to ride up there. Apparently JP knows everyone in Marin, so door-busters 
> and party-crashers were all welcomed! Thanks to Hugh and Jim for jumping on 
> board and doing this, and especially to Ms. Phelan for inviting us up!
>
> Maybe, just maybe, we could pull off something similar this summer 
> Some conversations to that end are happening!
>
>
> -- 
> Cheers,
> David
>
> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace
>
> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Strada Rossa March 19th... you all are invited!

[Doug Peterson]

Marked my calendar.  This is a must-do event.  

doug

On Saturday, November 7, 2015 at 9:08:19 PM UTC-8, cyclotourist wrote:
>
>
> http://redlands-strada-rossa.blogspot.com/2015/11/were-putting-stake-in-it-march-19-2016.html
>
> A very Rivendell-friendly event! Hope to see some of you there!
>
> -- 
> Cheers,
> David
>
> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace
>
> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: New Google format

[doug peterson]

Am I missing something?  I still see the RBW Owners Bunch as I always
have.  I always seem to be on the trailing edge of things - am I
looking at something that's going to change or disappear?

dougP

On Jun 27, 5:03 am, Leslie  wrote:
> Can you click the "Link to this topic" under the thread title, copy that,
> and paste it into an email?
>
> -L

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[RBW] Re: Does Marathon 700x47 work with Tubus Tara?

[doug peterson]

Mike:

I use the Duo on my Atlantis & prefer more weight on the front, so
I've put as much as 15 lbs per side with no problems.  The Duo is
stiff & stable.  With the hoop the Tara is probably even more stiff if
you carry a lot of weight.

dougP

On Jun 27, 8:25 am, Mike  wrote:
> I know there's some folks on this list that use Tubus racks. I'm wonder if
> anyone knows if the Tara will work with the Schwalbe Marathon 700x47 (actual
> 41) that RBW sells. I'm currently running those Schwalbes on my LHT and am
> considering a Tara rack. If the clearance is tight I'd probably just go wit
> the Tubus Duo. I have a Surly Nice front rack but it's a bit much for my
> needs.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --mike

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[RBW] Re: HS

[doug peterson]

grant:

This little corner of the bicycling world has a lot of faith in your
designs and trust in your selection of components, execution of
details, etc.  If the gamblers on this bike are as happy with the
result as I expect them to be, do you have any idea how long the line
is going to be next time you start musing along the lines of "...I've
got this idea"?

dougP

On Jun 26, 8:42 am, grant  wrote:
> Three of the so-far-eight gamblers have PBH of 95+, with a 99 already
> in there. So...although ifwhen a production model happens, we'll limit
> it to 3-4 sizes, on the gambler's run, it looks like they'll be made
> to fit, anyway. But there is a detail that makes them fit a slighly
> wider range fine. Still, I've having to design bigger ones than I'd
> expected to. No biggie, can do it, and Nobi certainly can make 'em.
> Uno left, but we may just have it built and keep it as a demo here, as
> a sample to show in case we have a production model. Mine could be
> that, too, but it would be good to have two styles, etc.
>
> It's a fun and educational project for me, personallyprofessionally.
> It reveals some gaps in the framebuilding supplies menu, and I've got
> to figure out whether to turn left or right, so I talk to the guys
> here about it. "Simple or superfluous?" comes up a lot. Is
> "superfluous" just more versatile, or is it too much? Options are in
> general desirable, but too many options are mean and confusing. The
> bike won't look radically weird. People on the street may stop and
> look and know they're looking at something special or unusual, but
> they won't see the stuff I think it neat about it. Of course, it is
> all theory at this point. I could be wrong about it. The first one
> made will be mine, and if I'm wrong about what I think should be the
> coolest thing about the bike, then I'll go to plan A & 1/2 for the
> gamblers, and that should nail it. Gamblers or not, I don't want to
> design a monkey bike for anybody, and the leap-uh-faith that's going
> on is something I take super seriously, and don't want to blow it.

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[RBW] Re: new (to me) Atlantis

[doug peterson]

Forrest:

The Acorn Boxy Rando lives on my Atlantis; never leave home without
it.  I find it to be just the right size to self limit casual
purchases, and leaves the rear rack open to handle the really big
stuff.

dougP

On Jun 25, 8:26 am, Forrest  wrote:
> Took a break in my morning errands to snap a few pics of my new (to
> me) 58 cm Atlantis. Trying a compact double crank on it (46/34).
> Really liking the Acorn Boxy Rando bag. Pics here:
>      http://gallery.me.com/ftmeyer#100151

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[RBW] Re: OT: Need advice on hauling lots of bikes

[doug peterson]

When we've done bike transport for our club, we figure each nested
pair of bikes takes about 2' x 6' of floor space in a van.  We've
never run out of room.  Matching larger & smaller bikes helps.  For
instance, a big bike with drop bars nests well with a small frame flat
bar bike.

dougP

On Jun 23, 1:03 pm, Sean Whelan  wrote:
> I second that.
>
> The heel -to - toe, back of the truck, cardboard between bikes approach
> mentioned below was employed by the organizers of the 2007 London to Paris
> (http://www.londres-paris.com) when we took the train back to London and they
> brought our bikes back from Paris.
>
> Seems like a fine enough approach.
>
> Sean
>
> 
> From: CycloFiend 
> To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Thu, June 23, 2011 1:53:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [RBW] OT: Need advice on hauling lots of bikes
>
> Simplest method is upright, direction-switched "heel to toe" with a thick
> moving blanket between them.  I'd probably remove the pedals, as that's what
> tends to bite into the frames and gouge stuff.
>
> We used to run built bikes from the warehouse out to the shops (anywhere
> from 1-2 hours by freeway) in the back of a delivery truck (Iveco-type) with
> only bike box cardboard between them.  I think we could do up to 40 bikes
> before having to lay any on top.  That worked 99% of the time without
> scratches.
>
> I would expect a smaller rental box van would work fine.  Be mindful of
> wedging them or bungie-ing them in place so they don't move during
> accellerations and stops.
>
> Hope that helps
>
> - J
>
> --
> Jim Edgar
> cyclofi...@earthlink.net
>
> Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries -http://www.cyclofiend.com
> Current Classics - Cross Bikes
> Singlespeed - Working Bikes
>
> Gallery updates now appear here -http://cyclofiend.blogspot.com
>
> "'You both ride your bike?' He held his hands out and grabbed imaginary
> handlebars, grinning indulgently, eyeing Tom's helmet.  Double disbeleif:
> not one, but two grown Americans riding bicycles."
> -- Neal Stephenson, "Zodiac"
>
> --
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[RBW] Re: HS

[doug peterson]

Jamison:

Good for you to be in a position & have the faith to sign up.
Hopefully the first run will get scattered all over the country and
NOT concentrated around San Francisco Bay.  Then the rest of us could
have a hope of seeing one in person.  All this speculation is
intriguing but I predict Grant's got a few surprises in store for us.
I gotta admit the dual range crank coupled with an IGH, using a belt
drive, has a lot of merit, at least in concept.

dougP

On Jun 21, 8:31 am, jamison brosseau 
wrote:
> I signed up.  I know nothing though.  It will b a good bike.
>
> On Jun 20, 10:58 pm, William  wrote:
>
>
>
> > and now SEVEN of them are sold.  I'm pleasantly surprised.  I'm
> > waiting for a lister to speak up and say that they've put their money
> > down.
>
> > On Jun 20, 7:09 pm, "Bill Gibson (III)" 
> > wrote:
>
> > > Retro-direct, anyone?
>
> > > My guess is that he means it when theHSwill be a more "elegant", maybe a
> > > more "integrated" design. It may be less of a bike meant to be widely
> > > adaptable to different configurations, as many Rivendell designs are. But 
> > > it
> > > won't be a single-purpose bike at all.
>
> > > On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 6:34 PM, charlie  wrote:
> > > > Yea that looks pretty cooloff road looking which seems to be
> > > > where the Riv folks ride quite a bit.
>
> > > > On Jun 20, 5:29 pm, Montclair BobbyB 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > Read more about it here...
>
> > > > >http://tinyurl.com/3g7eyk4
>
> > > > > Could this be it???  If so, that's some pretty funky stuff...
>
> > > > > On Jun 20, 8:22 pm, Montclair BobbyB 
> > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > OK folks... HERE is the solution toHS (And thanks Esteban for
> > > > > > giving me a clue)... It stands for Hammerschmidt... it's a 2-speed
> > > > > > crankset developed by SRAM (similar to the Schlumpf) with a built-in
> > > > > > transmission (in the crank).  It obviates the need for a front
> > > > > > derailleur.  The question is whether this will be an all-out front 
> > > > > > AND
> > > > > > rear internal transmission bike... I say yes, it will.
>
> > > > > > OK, everyone can watch reality TV once again, I'm spent
>
> > > > > > Peace,
> > > > > > BB
>
> > > > > > On Jun 20, 7:47 pm, Roger  wrote:
>
> > > > > > > "I'm not familiar with the SA 8-speed.  Is the shifter indexed or
> > > > just
> > > > > > > the hub?"
>
> > > > > > > The SA 8-speed hub isn't indexed, but it definitely wants to be
> > > > > > > centered into each gear without much feedback. Supposedly Sheldon
> > > > > > > Brown could do it, but like 99% of the things Sheldon could do, it
> > > > was
> > > > > > > beyond my skills. I miss Sheldon.
>
> > > > > > > Part of the allure of the thumbshifter (which would be about equal
> > > > > > > with a barend shifter) was that I used the wheel/cable/shifter 
> > > > > > > setup
> > > > > > > as a self-contained module that I could have on or off of my 
> > > > > > > single
> > > > > > > speed bike in a couple of minutes with nothing but 2 or 3 zipties 
> > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > the cable and tightening the shifter clamp on the bar. Except for 
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > constant "is it in or out of gear" fiddliness and ker-chunking 
> > > > > > > out of
> > > > > > > gear under load it was great. I'd like a clamp-on downtube shifter
> > > > > > > best of all for this concept.
>
> > > > > > > On Jun 20, 2:53 pm, Kenneth Stagg  wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 4:10 PM, Roger 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > " It would be very cool if they also made a real shifter for 
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > Rohloff.  I'm not in the market for a new bike but I'd be 
> > > > > > > > > very,
> > > > very
> > > > > > > > > happy to get a bar end shifter that was setup to handle the 
> > > > > > > > > extra
> > > > > > > > > throw required by the Rohloff!  I'd ditch that damned twist
> > > > shifter in
> > > > > > > > > a split second."
>
> > > > > > > > > I feel the same way about the SA 8-speed I have and its twist
> > > > shifter.
>
> > > > > > > > I'm not familiar with the SA 8-speed.  Is the shifter indexed or
> > > > just
> > > > > > > > the hub?  The silly thing about not offering a bar-end or 
> > > > > > > > similar
> > > > for
> > > > > > > > the Rohloff is that the shifter has no indexing - it's all 
> > > > > > > > handled
> > > > at
> > > > > > > > the hub - so the only issues are the dual cable setup (easy 
> > > > > > > > enough)
> > > > > > > > and pulling enough cable (more work but doable.)
>
> > > > > > > > -Ken
>
> > > > --
> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> > > > Groups
> > > > "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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>
>

[RBW] Re: HS

[doug peterson]

It's plausible.  22 or 24T chainring with 1:1 or 1.6:1 ratio.  So you
get a granny in 1:1 and the equivalent of a 35 or 38T ring in the
overdrive.  But IMHO the grey or black or whatever doesn't really look
like it belongs on a Riv.  Maybe it looks better in person than in the
photo?

dougP

On Jun 20, 5:22 pm, Montclair BobbyB 
wrote:
> OK folks... HERE is the solution to HS (And thanks Esteban for
> giving me a clue)... It stands for Hammerschmidt... it's a 2-speed
> crankset developed by SRAM (similar to the Schlumpf) with a built-in
> transmission (in the crank).  It obviates the need for a front
> derailleur.  The question is whether this will be an all-out front AND
> rear internal transmission bike... I say yes, it will.
>
> OK, everyone can watch reality TV once again, I'm spent
>
> Peace,
> BB
>
> On Jun 20, 7:47 pm, Roger  wrote:
>
>
>
> > "I'm not familiar with the SA 8-speed.  Is the shifter indexed or just
> > the hub?"
>
> > The SA 8-speed hub isn't indexed, but it definitely wants to be
> > centered into each gear without much feedback. Supposedly Sheldon
> > Brown could do it, but like 99% of the things Sheldon could do, it was
> > beyond my skills. I miss Sheldon.
>
> > Part of the allure of the thumbshifter (which would be about equal
> > with a barend shifter) was that I used the wheel/cable/shifter setup
> > as a self-contained module that I could have on or off of my single
> > speed bike in a couple of minutes with nothing but 2 or 3 zipties for
> > the cable and tightening the shifter clamp on the bar. Except for the
> > constant "is it in or out of gear" fiddliness and ker-chunking out of
> > gear under load it was great. I'd like a clamp-on downtube shifter
> > best of all for this concept.
>
> > On Jun 20, 2:53 pm, Kenneth Stagg  wrote:
>
> > > On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 4:10 PM, Roger  wrote:
> > > > " It would be very cool if they also made a real shifter for the
> > > > Rohloff.  I'm not in the market for a new bike but I'd be very, very
> > > > happy to get a bar end shifter that was setup to handle the extra
> > > > throw required by the Rohloff!  I'd ditch that damned twist shifter in
> > > > a split second."
>
> > > > I feel the same way about the SA 8-speed I have and its twist shifter.
>
> > > I'm not familiar with the SA 8-speed.  Is the shifter indexed or just
> > > the hub?  The silly thing about not offering a bar-end or similar for
> > > the Rohloff is that the shifter has no indexing - it's all handled at
> > > the hub - so the only issues are the dual cable setup (easy enough)
> > > and pulling enough cable (more work but doable.)
>
> > > -Ken- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Appropriate Answers to Questions on any Bike Forum

[doug peterson]

I like the observation that no bike does anything until someone gets
on it to ride.

dougP

On Jun 16, 12:23 pm, Jim Cloud  wrote:
> A link to this site was recently posted on another Google groups forum
> (Internet-BOB).
>
> http://surlybikes.com/blog/some_answers_to_just_about_any_bike_forum_...
>
> I think it obviously works well here for the RBW group as well!
>
> Jim Cloud
> Tucson, AZ

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[RBW] Re: So Cal July 10 - Three Speed "River and Sea" ride

[doug peterson]

Andy:

For this ride you gotta bring your 3 speed!  I remember you charging
up & down the hills in San Diego a couple of years ago.  I'm sure
there will be at least one Atlantis present; two if I'm lucky.

doug "still without a 3 speed" P

On Jun 7, 4:19 pm, "Andy.M"  wrote:
> Ill be in town that weekendnow which bike to bring... hmm
> -Andy
> On Jun 7, 3:24 pm, "cyclotour...@gmail.com" 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Good times are heading your way, people.  Noel (who does know how to
> > post to this group BTW)  is putting together a real nice ride.  35
> > miles through coastal Orange County.  Should be a perfect route.
>
> > Conversation here on the 
> > flickr:http://www.flickr.mud.yahoo.com/groups/socal_rivendell_bicycle_apprec...
>
> > And original posting on the SoCal 3 speed tour 
> > site:http://www.threespeedtouringclub.com/riverandseadaytour.htm
>
> > All bikes and riders are encouraged to show and go for a ride.  One to
> > 30 gears allowed (sorry 31 speeders).  Be there or be L7.- Hide quoted text 
> > -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] WTB: 8 speed bar end SRAM Grip Shifters

[doug peterson]

These are the old ones made for the ends of drop bars.  The cable
exits parallel to shifter, same as lever bar ends.  They have been out
of production for quite a while.  These are NOT the same as the MTB
units.  Reply off-list if you happen to have these.  I only need the
right one.

dougP

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[RBW] Re: You have received a YouTube video!

[doug peterson]

Eric:

That's was really fun to watch!  The music is a nice touch & the maps
really help to understand the course.

dougP

On May 25, 7:12 pm, Way Rebb  wrote:
> Nice video, you're getting good at putting these together.  I enjoyed
> watching.  That ride would be a three, maybe four, day trip for me. :)
>
> Regards,
> Ray
>
> On May 23, 11:19 am, Eric Norris  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Saw several other riders on Rivs on this year's Davis Double, including 
> > another rider on a pretty green Riv Road Standard.
>
> > Here's my video of the ride:
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDjrxtbDi8U&sns=em
>
> > --Eric Norris
> > Sent from the iPad 2- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Sulphur Mtn Ride Report

[doug peterson]

Rob:

That was a great ride we did last year.  Ojai is perfectly located for
a lunch stop.  The return from Lake Casitas is mostly downhill so the
end of the ride is relaxing.  This is one of the most accessible,
mixed surface rides in the area, with no difficult navigation.  My
Atlantis was shod with 35 mm Marathon Supremes.  The unpaved portions
are well maintained jeep trails.  I recall we saw a mini-van along the
way, as well as a guy on horseback.

dougP

On May 26, 9:27 am, James Warren  wrote:
> I just climbed the blues up some fairly steep dirt. Great tires. (Also good 
> dirt conditions right now.)
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> >From: rperks 
> >Sent: May 26, 2011 7:54 AM
> >To: RBW Owners Bunch 
> >Subject: [RBW] Re: Sulphur Mtn Ride Report
>
> >Jack Brown Green
>
> >They have faired quite well on our California fire  roads.  I finally
> >wore out my first rear after a year and a half and 5000 mile or so.
> >Great tires IMO
>
> >Rob
>
> >On May 26, 7:51 am, Tim Whalen  wrote:
> >> Very nice.  What tires are you running?
> >> Tim
>
> >> On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 8:44 AM, Zack  wrote:
> >> > That descent looks like a blast.
>
> >> > On May 26, 10:31 am, rperks  wrote:
> >> > > Yesterday I made it out for a few, five actually, hours to ride a loop
> >> > > up and over Sulphur Mountain down to Santa Paula and back home to
> >> > > Ventura.  The ride is just under 50 miles and 4000 feet of total
> >> > > climbing.  Almost a quarter of that is dirt, and about half is no or
> >> > > little traffic.  The day was perfect.  The Roadeo did everything it is
> >> > > supposed to, the motor had a little more trouble.  The only thing I
> >> > > would change is getting out of the house a little earlier to beat the
> >> > > heat and wind.  Full ride report and pictures here:
>
> >> > >http://oceanaircycles.com/2011/05/26/sulphur-mountain-loop-through-sa...
> >> > > orhttp://wp.me/p19mfs-nX
>
> >> > > Some of you may remember parts of this ride we did as a group a while
> >> > > back.  It is sill just as nice back there.  If any of you are planning
> >> > > on being in the Ventura area feel free to drop me a line.
>
> >> > > Rob
> >> > > -http://oceanaircycles.com/
>
> >> > --
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[RBW] Re: FS: Parts

[doug peterson]

Is the BB new?

dougP

On May 23, 12:57 pm, williwoods  wrote:
> Cages: Nitto R and Electra/Nitto knockoff cage $40 for Nitto $10 for
> Electra
> Front Der: Shimano Ultegra $20
> BB: IRD sealed 68x113 $15
> Headset: Cane Creek Classic 100 1"  $70
> Rear Der: Shimano Ultegra High normal $65
> Crank arms: Stronglight 170mm no rings $35
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/willhrtn/sets/72157625721858877/
>
> ask for pics of the crank arms if interested, they are in great shape.

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[RBW] Atlantis on Mt Figueroa, Santa Ynez Valley

[doug peterson]

Recently did a tour from Paso Robles to Solvang, and couldn't pass up
Mt Figueroa:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/33786397@N03/sets/72157626664003365/

>From Solvang, it's a 46 mile loop out Happy Canyon, up Mt Figueora and
back down to Los Olivos and return to Solvang.  My buddy Norm's
computer keeps track of elevation gain & had 4,400' at the summit.
It's really high quality riding.  There is one stretch for a couple of
miles that's dirt but it's well maintained.  We were passed by a group
on carbon race bikes.  The lead guy caught me as I was puttering along
on the dirt and was quite friendly.  They had their own support car
following them.  The Atlantis with it's really low gearing was perfect
for the climbs and I wouldn't have wanted to do the descents without
great brakes.  We took about 5-1/2 hours to do it and the people at Dr
J's bike shop in Solvang quoted some sub 3 hour times for training
rides.

dougP

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[RBW] Re: FS: Acorn Handlebar Bag

[doug peterson]

Tim:

Black or tan?

dougP

On May 22, 7:45 pm, Tim Smith  wrote:
> This is a Riv-ish item, hope you all don't mind the FS post. Have an
> Acorn HB bag in excellent condition for sale. $75 includes shipping to
> USA lower 48. The only "defect" is that I trimmed 1" from each end of
> the wooden support dowel to better fit the handlebars of a bike that I
> no longer own. Easily replaced if need be.

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[RBW] Re: A different path to the same end

[doug peterson]

Charlie:

You made the correct choice on that one.  There was a photo in
Adventure Cycling magazine recently of a guy who adapted a push mower
to a bicycle.  He pedals to mow his lawn.  Talk about getting in
training while doing something useful.

dougP

On May 19, 5:16 pm, charlie  wrote:
> Anguished long and hard between a new Simple One and a John Deere lawn
> tractor but decided to mow my hilly half acre lawn filled with ruts
> using my simple push mower. Turns out its probably good training for
> hills on the Simple One and it uses my legs different to boot.  It
> takes about 3 hours to mow and another hour to weed wack. At least my
> new bike will be a nice shade of green (but not John Deere green
> thankfully). Thought about goats...maybe I could look for some
> green ones. ; )

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[RBW] Re: Camping and riding in the Sierras?

[doug peterson]

Philip:

What dates will you be in Anaheim?  I'm "Anaheim adjacent" & would be
glad to put together a ride in Orange County if the dates work out.

dougP

On May 20, 11:57 am, Philip Williamson 
wrote:
> Not a bike tour, but places to ride and camp along a Sierras route
> from Salem, OR to Anaheim, CA.
>
> My boss and I are driving from Portland to a trade show in Anaheim
> next month. We're taking two days each way, and going through the
> Sierras, not I-5. We'll camp one night or two, and are considering
> bringing our bikes. If you have suggestions for great mixed terrain
> rides around Susanville (the halfway point), or along 395 or 95, I'd
> love to hear them.
>
> I'm really excited about this - dragging the Google Maps route off I-5
> added a couple hours driving each day (less than I expected), and
> turned a grueling chore into something potentially great.
>
>  Philip
>
>  Philip Williamsonwww.biketinker.com

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[RBW] Re: Hello folks

[doug peterson]

Scotty:

That's a nice mix of bikes you'll have.  The first Rivendell I ever
saw was my own Atlantis when I took it out of the shipping box.  I had
purchased stuff from them and been a member for a long time.  Their
whole approach to cycling was consistent with mine and the details
they freely share take a lot of the mystery out of things.  You're
gonna love your new bike.

dougP

On May 16, 6:36 am, Mike  wrote:
> Congrats on the purchase of the Hilsen. I doubt you'll be
> disappointed. Between the LHT and Hilsen you'll be covered for all
> your country bike needs, loaded and unloaded. Definitely post pictures
> when you get the bike.
>
> --mike
>
> On May 15, 4:10 pm, Scotty  wrote:
>
>
>
> > I just thought I would introduce myself. Im Scot and I live in Holiday
> > Florida. 3 weeks ago I ordered a new A Homer Hilsen complete bike from
> > Rivendell. They told me it would take 8 weeks for them to get the
> > frame and another 2 weeks for them to build it up. I am very excited
> > to get and ride my bike. I have been drooling over the Rivbike website
> > for a few years now and I came into the opportunity to get one and
> > took it. It was a little bit of a gamble as I have not actually seen
> > one in person. I am going solely on research and reputation. I have
> > seen and ridden a Grant designed Bridgestone and I am fully confident
> > in his work and Keven was very helpfull in my parts selection and
> > sizing.
>
> > I am also a member of the Surly Owners Group and i own and ride a
> > Surly Long Haul Trucker. I have put allot of miles on my Surly and
> > have also lost over 70 pounds riding it so My Riv is a bit of a reward
> > for reaching a short term fitness goal and will hopefully keep me
> > motivated to reach my long term goals of further weight loss and
> > fitness as well as replacing my cars whenever possible.
> > I have already gotten some good info from your group here and have
> > some more reading to do. If there are any other Tampa Bay area
> > Rivendell owners on here please say hi.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: silver shifter washers

[doug peterson]

Jason:

I did the same thing as you.  IIRC you can put the "tab stop" (?) on
the pod side, away from the lever, in a couple of the 4 possible
positions.  I happened to have a pair of the ones without the tab that
I used, but as said above, there are about a billion of those washers
out there.

FWIW, I installed the pods with the D-rings on the inside per
instruction.  Next time I re-cable I'm changing them to the outside so
I can more easily cinch down the D-rings on the fly.  I still haven't
discovered the magic combination of washers to prevent the D-rings
from gradually loosening up.  They're supposed to be on the inside for
protection so there is a good reason.

dougP

On May 17, 8:23 am, MichaelH  wrote:
> I would have sworn that my shifters came with both styles.  In any
> case I would expect any good bike shop, or Riv, has a pair of these in
> its spare parts drawer, that not that rare since they were on
> virtually every road bike, with bar ends, sold for many decades.
> There's more than one size floating around out there and shops that
> service older bikes are sure to end up with them.
>
> michael
>
> On May 17, 10:20 am, jandrews_nyc  wrote:
>
>
>
> > I should've read the posts regarding this before I purchased SIlver
> > downtube shifters to use with my Shimano bar end shifter pods.
> > As many of you know the shifters come with a round washer with a
> > square hole that has a little tab on it that acts as a shifter stop
> > when mounted on a downtube boss.
> > But..it seems nobody sells the round washers with the square hole
> > WITHOUT the tab.
> > I could grind it down, but does anyone know how to get the correct
> > washers without purchasing the bar end shifters?
> > thanks
> > Jason- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Marathon Supreme Input please

[doug peterson]

Mitch:

I've used Marathon Supremes exclusively on my Atlants for several
years & love 'em.  Long wear & less than 1 flat per tire on average.
Yes they are expensive but you won't be disappointed.

On your question regarding fender clearance, I posted some
measurements I took yesterday when I changed out worn 35s for a 40 &
50 mix.  The 35s measure 27-1/2" OD; 40s are 28"; and the 50s are
28-1/2".  I know that sounds too tidy but it's close enough for
tires.  All at 50 psi on Mavic A-719 rim.

IIRC, on an Atlantis there's plenty of room for pretty much any 35
with a fender and a 40 will probably work as well.  Might give Riv a
call to see what they think, since they have both products.

FWIW, wow, that 50 on the back is BIG!  I gotta look up the weight but
it's a pretty noticeable change from the 35.  Might take some getting
used to.

dougP

On May 16, 7:39 am, Mitch Browne  wrote:
> Currently commute daily 16 miles round trip on my 58 Atlantis with
> 47mm Schwalbe Marathon Plus tires.  I've been pretty happy with the
> Schwalbes and have them on an XO-1 26x1.25 , Expedition, and Miyata
> 1000 700x32's mostly for lazy flat protection.
>
> I've ordered a set of long board fenders that won't accomodate the
> 47's. I am trying to decide on 700x35 or 700x40 Marathon Supremes for
> the summer at least. I like the bigger  tires since I fear no root,
> rock, or limb on my mostly flat ride in.
>
> I want to order the Supremes this week, can anyone share their
> personal experience?
>
> Mitch
> San Luis Obispo, CA

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[RBW] Re: Friday the 13th

[doug peterson]

Manny:

I dunno but I think you could teach me a lot about how to shoot
photos.  Your shots from your ride home are a lot more intersting than
mine from recent bike tours.

dougP

On May 13, 11:32 pm, manueljohnacosta 
wrote:
> With the dread of losing my job hanging over my head and my lost
> wallet somewhere in Milpitas I find it amazing that I can brighten up
> my mood with just a simple bike ride home.
>
> Pictures proved that I like taking 
> pictures:http://www.flickr.com/photos/mannyacosta/sets/72157626591058217/
>
> -Manny "My Middle name is bad luck" Acosta

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[RBW] Re: Friday the 13th

[doug peterson]

What I love is that just getting on your bike can turn a mundane
errand into an adventure.  Wherever I'm going, a trip that would be a
PITA in the car is fun on my bike.

dougP

On May 15, 2:11 pm, Ken Mattina  wrote:
> Funny I was just thinking the same thing.
>
> On Friday, I needed to go to the market and I really didn't want to go.  So
> I rode my bike, loaded it up with groceries, and cycled home.
>
> What a great day.
>
> Ken
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 1:49 PM, Mike  wrote:
> > Never underestimate the impact of a bicycle ride on your mood. As
> > always, thanks for posting taking and posting the pictures.
>
> > --mike
>
> > On May 13, 11:32 pm, manueljohnacosta 
> > wrote:
> > > With the dread of losing my job hanging over my head and my lost
> > > wallet somewhere in Milpitas I find it amazing that I can brighten up
> > > my mood with just a simple bike ride home.
>
> > > Pictures proved that I like taking pictures:
> >http://www.flickr.com/photos/mannyacosta/sets/72157626591058217/
>
> > > -Manny "My Middle name is bad luck" Acosta
>
> > --
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>
> --
> Where did the spring go?
> Where did my hormones go?
> Where did my energy go?
> Where did my go go?
> Where did the pleasure go?
> Where did my hair go?
>
> -- Ray Davies- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Schwalbe Marathon Supreme measurements

[doug peterson]

Many of you know that I'm a big fan of the Schwalbe Marathon Supreme
for its longevity and flat resistance.  To me, it's the ideal tire for
my Atlantis.  Great touring and decent off road performance.
Questions of "actual vs labeled" width come up from time to time.  I
changed out a  worn out set of 35s just now.  My plan was to go 40s
but thanks to my tire enabler Dustin I also have a single 50.  Just
for fun the 50 went on the rear and a 40 on the front.  I took
measurements of width & OD as I worked.  Wheels are 700c Mavic A-719
(a wide, heavy duty touring rim).  All tires at 50 psi.  No apology
for the English units on diameter; do the math.

Worn out 35 mm:  36 mm wide x 27-1/2" OD
New(ish) 40 mm:  40 mm wide x 28" OD
New(ish) 50 mm:  46 mm x 28-1/2" OD

dougP

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[RBW] Re: Rivs in tropical downpour

[doug peterson]

Gernot:

We had rain like that in January, between Chiang Rai & Chiang Kong.
The highway dept decided to completely tear up several kilometers of
pavement and re-do everything at once.  No paved bypass, just slog
thru the red clay along with everyone else.  There I was on a rental
bike with no fenders & 25 mm tires.  Not the only time on that trip I
sorely missed my Atlantis!

Thailand is one of the most civilized adventure touring locations
anywhere.  I can't read many of the signs but I can spot a blue
Nestle's cooler at 100 meters.  Easy to get lost but also easy to
figure out where to go.  Lots of friendly people, good food, &
affordable lodgings.

dougP

On May 11, 8:00 am, Earl Grey  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> just thought I'd share this photo I took on my buddy Paul's camera of
> Paul and Kip's Rivendells (Sam and Bomba) in some seriously wet
> conditions here in Chiang Mai, Thailand. Paul was sorry he removed his
> fenders a few days prior. Probably his fault the rains came early this
> year...
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/paulatwork/5675225060/in/photostream/
>
> Cheers,
>
> Gernot

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[RBW] Re: fatter tires for smaller diameter wheels

[doug peterson]

Hopefully Jan will chime in on this if I've mis-understood the test.
The BQ article was well thought out and executed, and a good read.  My
understanding of the test was that the bicycle geometry was a
constant, and the object was to explore how various combinations of
wheel size and tire width impacted handling.  The conclusion was that,
regardless of wheel size, there was a range of moments of inertia
within which there 26", 650B, and 700c wheel / tire combinations with
similar handling.  Wheel / tire combinations below this range were
overly sensitive, and ones above were sluggish (my terms, not BQs).

IMHO handling is subjective so what one rider prefers may not be
optimal for another.  Just for fun, I ran the numbers on my Atlantis'
touring wheels / tires and of course it's way out on the sluggish side
of the scale (what a surprise!) but performs well for my loaded
touring.  The 3 testers are more performance oriented riders and
prefer more responsive handling.

We had a thread here a while back about optimal width for 26" wheels
where many responders liked 1.75" (+/-) widths for touring & general
riding.  Before that, I had put some 1.25" Panaracer Urban Max tires
on my old 26" MTB grocery getter, with not a thought to handling.  I
found it skittish & went up to 1.75" & it significanlty increased the
stability.  The old MTB was probably designed for 2" knobbies, so the
1.25" street tires were definitely sub-optimal.

dougP

On May 11, 2:31 pm, Michael Gordon  wrote:
> List,
>
> I just read a post from Patrick Moore with thread title "to make 26"
> rim'd atlantis fast randonneur: suggestions?", the quote is, "Jan's
> idea that smaller wheels ought to have fatter tires for the best
> handling compared to larger wheels has not been true in my
> experience."  I have read similar statements from others and wanted to
> comment.
>
> I did actually purchase the Bicycle Quarterly (BQ) article, although I
> don't have it on hand as I write.  As I recall, the handling of 3
> bikes with similar geometry but different wheelsize was compared.  The
> BQ conclusion was that the bikes handled differently depending on tire
> width, and the purported explanation was that the moment of inertia of
> the wheel was the cause of a difference in handling.  Since wider
> tires are generally heavier, and smaller diameter wheels light, one
> may infer the recommendation that smaller diameter wheels should have
> wider tires than larger diameter wheels.
>
> Here's what I want to challenge: the geometry of the 3 bikes was
> similar, I believe they all used a 73 degree head angle.  So yes, if
> you want to keep the head angle constant as wheel size changes (and it
> is a head angle commonly used for road bikes with 700C wheels), then
> probably a mountain bike diameter 26" wheel and a skinny tire is not
> the best combination.
>
> However, bike designers (at least the better ones) know to change
> (decrease) the head angle and other aspects of the frame geometry for
> a smaller diameter / similar tire width wheel precisely because the
> steering of the smaller diameter and lower moment of inertia wheel is
> quicker and the stability is less.  So, I don't think the BQ article
> proved a 26" wheel bike has poor handling with narrow tires, it just
> showed that if the geometry is taken say from a design that works well
> for narrow 700C wheels and no compensating changes are made, the
> handling will be sub-optimal.

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[RBW] Re: to make 26" rim'd atlantis fast randonneur: suggestions?

[doug peterson]

My 58 cm Atlantis has 700c wheels, Mavic A 719 rims with Schwalbe
Marathon Supreme tires.  I also have a wheelset with Mavic CXP-22 rims
and racy 23 mm tires that I occassionally put on the Atlantis.  With
no other changes (my usual collection of racks'n'sacks), just changing
the wheelsets entirely transforms the character of the bike.  It's a
bit like jumping out of a sedan & into a sports car.  OTH, the 100 psi
tires ride like jackhammers and the narrower rims require fiddling
with the brakes.  Were I to seriously set up the Atlantis in a sporty
mode, I'd go with 28 mm Continental Gatorskins (I'm severely flat
averse) and take off the rear rack.

dougP

On May 10, 9:39 pm, canali  wrote:
> to make 26" rim'd atlantis fast randonneur: suggestions?
> (thinking of buying a lighter pair of wheels for those faster riding
> century/club days.)

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[RBW] Re: Speaking of that new RR 43 ....

[doug peterson]

If you insist on adding a clothing budget, then don't forget the cost
of the racks'n'bags we all love so dearly.  A carbonic unobtanium racy
bike will have zero cost in that area.

And you all thought cost accounting was dull stuff!

dougP

On May 8, 3:55 pm, Justin August  wrote:
> And enough riding-specific clothing is recommende d and sold by Riv
> that then you'd have to factor that in too...
>
> On May 8, 5:58 pm, Steve Palincsar  wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Sun, 2011-05-08 at 13:19 -0700, newenglandbike wrote:
> > > Well, I guess you have to figure in the cost of riding attire to go
> > > with the carbon.   Shoes, jerseys, etc.  Seems like it could add up
> > > fast.  
>
> > Riding attire has nothing at all to do with carbon.  I use cycling
> > shorts, shoes and jerseys with my steel and titanium bikes, and see no
> > reason to feel the slightest bit of shame about it.
>
> > On the other hand, that stuff lasts a long time if you take care of it.- 
> > Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Speaking of that new RR 43 ....

[doug peterson]

I don't keep records but Grant's 250 rides per year feels about
right.  My Atlantis just celebrated it's 8th b'day.  At an original
cost just over $2k (those were the days!), I'm getting close to a buck
a ride.

dougP

On May 8, 5:46 am, Earl Grey  wrote:
> Good stuff as always. Too bad about the math error in the price per
> ride piece. I almost don't want to point it out since it seems to have
> gone unnoticed so far. The difference in price per ride, with Grant's
> conservative numbers, is only a little more than one order of
> magnitude, not two: Compared to the carbon bikes $10/ride, the
> expensive steel bike is
>
> 250 rides per year * 20 years = 5000 rides
>
> 5000 rides / $4000 = $0.80 per ride, NOT $0.09
>
> On the other hand, I doubt that most carbon race bikes outside of the
> Southwest and California get ridden 50 weeks out of the year, which
> would further increase the cost per ride.
>
> My $2000 Sam Hillborne gets ridden 8-12 times a week (if you count
> each commute leg separately, plus one or two fun rides plus errands)
> so for the past year and a half that I have owned it, I am already
> down to about $2.67 a ride (10 rides x 50 weeks x 1.5 years), and
> dropping.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Gernot
>
> On May 7, 1:24 am, PATRICK MOORE  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Nice buncha articles, tho' Grant's predilections come  out strong.
> > (Yay for fast, skinny tires! Yay for lower bars! Yay for race-type
> > bikes with fenders, racks, bags, dynolights -- esp if you can "match"
> > yer bags. Any YAY for good beer, home-made bread, lots of pasta and
> > sugar in my coffee!)
>
> > Anyway: I was particularly pleased with the interview with BS who
> > comes across as less of an asshol* than you just might presume from
> > his, admittedly very funny, blogs, and who also comes across as,
> > undeniable, intelligent and, for our dismally uncultured age,
> > literate. Kudos to R, RR and GP for this interview.
>
> > Patrick "my bars range from 2" below to 3" above saddle, my tires from
> > 22 mm to 65 mm" Moore
>
> > --
> > Patrick Moore
> > Albuquerque, NM
> > For professional resumes, contact
> > Patrick Moore, ACRW
> > patrickmo...@resumespecialties.com
>
> > A billion stars go spinning through the night
> > Blazing high above your head;
> > But in you is the Presence that will be
> > When all the stars are dead.
> > (Rilke, Buddha in Glory)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Possible stripped threads on frame ... what to do?

[doug peterson]

On drive side rack eyelets, I use a button head cap screw installed
from the inside so it becomes a stud onto which the rack strut mounts
and is retained with a nut.  Button heads are a low profile, domed
head allen so there's less chance of interference with the chain.  The
rear wheel must usually be removed to install one from the inside but
I usually do it once and leave it in place, regardless of whether the
rack is on.

The "belt'n'suspenders" approach to rack mounting is to use bolts long
enough to go thru all the threaded eyelets with enough thread out the
other side for a washer, lock washer and nylok nut.  Also carry a
small selection of extra rack hardware on tour.  And zip tiesand
duct tape.

dougP

On Apr 23, 1:57 pm, Wally  wrote:
> Hello!
> I was installing a rack on my A. Homer Hilsen, and tightening down the
> right-side strut on the frame, when I felt it all sort of give. The
> bolt seems to be stable, but I am concerned that I may have stripped
> the threads on the frame.
>
> What should I do about this?
>
> Thanks for your help and advice.
> Wally

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[RBW] Re: Bike Tour Stuff.

[doug peterson]

Manny:

There's a number variables but my most basic package for a warm
weather, lodging tour is around 25 lbs in 2 panniers.  Camping gear
adds another 2 panniers and 10 lbs (includes bag weight).  Cooler
weather calling for more wool & rain jacket maybe another 5 lbs (??).
No cooking gear included in these figures.

dougP

On Apr 23, 10:21 pm, manueljohnacosta 
wrote:
> As I get ready to pack for my third bike tour. I start doing my
> traditional pre-bike tour rituals.
> I shave my mustache. (Something I'm not quite fond of doing. Because
> it makes me look younger than I really I am.)
> I lay out all my gear and take a picture. ( Because if you don't take
> a picture of it. It never really happened)
> Then I upload the picture. ( Because I'm vain.)
>
> As I look at my previous pre-bike tour pictures I see the evolution of
> gear as the time goes by. Starting from not knowing what to pack, to
> packing too much and then not really caring what to pack. Not having a
> scale but being a darn good guess-a-mater I'm putting the weight
> between twenty to a hundred pounds.(Remember I'm a PE teacher not a
> math teacher.)
> Curious whats the average weight for packing for a nice tour?
> -Manny

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[RBW] Re: Odometer only? (Jones counter)

[doug peterson]

A friend got a Huret on e-Bay a year or so ago for something like $35
IIRC, so they are out there for a price.  I did an unintentional
century one day when the little rubber drive band had stretched to the
point of slipping.

dougP

On Apr 22, 11:53 am, Marty  wrote:
> Two words: Huret Miltito
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/timandmegan/3223761637/
>
> Had one on an old mount years ago - pre-Avocet. Must be a few NOS
> around somewhere...
>
> On Apr 22, 12:42 pm, Rambouilleting Utahn  wrote:
>
>
>
> > After removing my computer I've been using the Cyclemeter app for just
> > this purpose. I can log my miles ridden but don't have to look at my
> > speed or the taunting pace arrow.
>
> >http://www.abvio.com/cyclemeter/
>
> > On Apr 22, 4:53 am, islaysteve  wrote:
>
> > > I wonder if iPhones and other
> > > devices with GPS can be set up to do the same.  Just carry the iPhone
> > > in the bag.  I realize that this goes in the opposite direction of
> > > your wish to simplify!  Steve- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: For the Love of Old Parts...

[doug peterson]

Minh:

Where are you located?  There's probably a list member that can
suggest a shop in your area.

Nice Hillborne, I love that orange.  Whoever installed the drillium on
the chainrings can remove your freewheel.  One way or the other

dougP

On Apr 8, 2:47 pm, Minh  wrote:
> That's an option, but that assumes that they have the tool :) or they
> plan on destroying the freewheel, which seems like a lot of work for
> them.  I'm also searching for a bikeshop that still works on old
> bikes...
>
> On Apr 8, 5:15 pm, bfd  wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 8, 2:08 pm, Minh  wrote:
>
> > > There is a specific Shimano 600 freewheel tool for this (park no
> > > longer make it, and neither do shimano), Bicycle Research still make a
> > > tool, and i'm linking it here just so it's in the 
> > > archives.http://www.bicycletool.com/shimanoduraace600reginafreewheelremover.aspx
>
> > > the current park suntour 2-prong will not fit.
>
> > At $8, its not too pricey. Nevertheless, for about that much, or a few
> > dollars more, why not take it into your LBS and have them remove it,
> > especially if you're planning never using that fw again. Unless you
> > want yet another bike specific tool in your toolbox, you may want to
> > consider just taking it in and let the pros do it! Good Luck!- Hide quoted 
> > text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Beausage and Beaunction

[doug peterson]

My Atlantis only gets cleaned a few times a year, usually after a tour
as part of the re-assembly process.  It looks so nice all
shiny'n'spiffy, before I start hanging racks'n'packs back on, I keep
telling myself "gotta take a good picture for cyclofiend's Atlantis
site".  Been working on that for a few years now; I may get it
together some day.

dougP

On Apr 7, 8:53 am, PATRICK MOORE  wrote:
> Just for the record: my interest in the text and my reason for
> referring to it was not the writing style but the message: don't
> obsess over the looks of your bikes, they are meant for riding, though
> riding has no quarrel with looks.
>
> I am surprised by the many photos I see of bikes that are showroom
> floor clean. Either they are not ridden, or, more likely, the owners
> spend as much time cleaning them as riding them. Now I do live in a
> dry climate, but mine get washed about 3 times a year. (I am very
> careful about keeping the drivetrain cleaned and lubed.) I am too busy
> fixing flats to clean them more often than that.

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[RBW] Re: Catalina Island (What constitutes a mountain bike?)

[doug peterson]

I recall looking into Catalina when Jerry Hirsch was leading a group.
There were several costs (permit + conservancy membership maybe) as
well as the boat ride.  Plus their requirement for knobbies meant
buying a pair of off-road only tires.  Seemed like a great deal of
trouble & expense for a 1 day event, so I passed.

It would seem if one wanted to minimize trail damage, banning knobbies
would be helpful.  So my guess is they're worried about the liability
for someone who's under-equipped or under-skilled.

I'll bet if you had one bike with Bullmoose bars & 40 mm knobbies and
another with drops & 40 mm Marathons, the discussion would center on
the drop bar bike.  Perception can be important.

dougP

On Apr 6, 2:55 pm, cyclotourist  wrote:
> Why back in my day, we used to tie an onion to our belt, because that
> was the style then...
>
> On 4/6/11, Michael_S  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > sorry David but 100mm travel Mountain bikes are for XC racing.
> > Downhill bikes have more like 8 inches (200mm) of travel.
>
> > I'm sure your rigid KM would be fine for those rough trails over
> > there.
>
> > ~Mike
>
> > On Apr 6, 1:02 pm, cyclotourist  wrote:
> >> It's kinda' cool given the problems people have with trail
> >> access/closures (looking at you PDX) that there are places that won't
> >> let you in if you bike isn't burly enough!
>
> >> Dual-squish 100mm travel downhillers in full armor only, please.
>
> >> On 4/6/11, James Warren  wrote:
>
> >> > I do know two people who have gone there and said that the permit is
> >> > strictly enforced. I think they said that full sus wasn't specifically
> >> > mentioned, but the permit officer did require a "mountain bike". It
> >> > would be
> >> > worth seeing what they mean by that:
>
> >> > They must mean knobby tires.
>
> >> > I wonder if they would discount drop bars, even if the bike they were on
> >> > had
> >> > 2" Atlantis-style tires. That's the big IF for me.
>
> >> > I'm pretty certain that they would not approve a permit for a
> >> > rough-rider
> >> > style underbiker bike intending to go off-road with Jack Browns, for
> >> > example.
>
> >> > If I do it someday, I'll try to get away with my 700x40 knobby Hillborne
> >> > with Bullmoose bars. I'm guessing it would satisfy their "mountain bike"
> >> > criteria, but I'll attempt to check with someone by phone or e-mail
> >> > first.
> >> > Maybe a good way to do it would be to get in e-mail contact with the
> >> > permit
> >> > official and send a picture of the bike. I'm guessing that it's fairly
> >> > common for people to have digital photos of their bikes. :  )
>
> >> > -Jim W.
>
> >> > On Apr 6, 2011, at 9:42 AM, Matthew wrote:
>
> >> >> I have been under the (mistaken?) impression that the permitting
> >> >> required mountain bikes (specifically, shocks) and that they wouldn't
> >> >> let me on the roads or give me a permit with a my hillborne. Untrue?
>
> >> >> On Apr 5, 3:08 pm, Aaron Thomas  wrote:
> >> >>> Has anyone done it? Would you recommend it? Any special considerations
> >> >>> or
> >> >>> logistical things to take into account? Can anyone point me to useful
> >> >>> resources or websites? A simple Google search produced hundreds of
> >> >>> hits
> >> >>> --
> >> >>> not sure where to begin.
>
> >> >>> I'm thinking bike camping on Catalina might make a nice weekend
> >> >>> getaway
> >> >>> from
> >> >>> LA, but I've never done any bike camping, S240-style or otherwise.
> >> >>> Where
> >> >>> to
> >> >>> begin? Recommendations for the neophyte welcome.
>
> >> >>> Thanks in advance,
> >> >>> Aaron
>
> >> >> --
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> >> >> Groups
> >> >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>
> >> > --
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> >> --
> >> Cheers,
> >> David
> >> Redlands, CA
>
> >> *...in terms of recreational cycling there are many riders who would
> >> probably benefit more from
> >> improving their taste than from improving their performance.* - RTMS- Hide
> >> quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
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[RBW] Re: Riding the Atlantis

[doug peterson]

Khalid:

I've been touring with my Atlantis since 03 & have loaded it many
different ways.  The front v rear question comes up in discussions
with tourists on all kinds of bikes.  It's common for two people with
the same bike to each prefer a different loading scheme.  In other
words, there's no "best way" to load a bike.

Consider that the rider is the majority of the weight and the rider is
a live load, ie., moving around, climbing out of the saddle, etc.  So
individual riding style has a strong influence on how the bike handles
with a load.

Probably like a lot of other people, I started with just a rear rack &
pair of panniers, and a bunch of stuff strapped to the top of the
rack.  For me, the handling was terrible.  Adding front low riders and
splitting the load into 4 bags was a huge improvement.  At one point
on a tour I was getting some noticeabale rear wobbling, so I just
swapped front & rear bags.  Problem solved.  I did some experiments at
home with my typical loads and concluded that for me the optimal
handling was about 60% on the front and 40% on the rear.  My loading
for lodging tours is front bags only.  For camping tours, I add rear
bags for the extra gear.

Front low riders on the Atlantis don't seem to affect handling in any
negative way.  Steering gets a bit heavy but the bike remains stable.
I always have an Acorn Boxy Rando bag on a small Nitto front rack on
the bike, and don't hesitate to load the bag full with all kinds of
junk.  The rack, bag & contents proably top 5-6 lbs frequently.

My suggestion is for you to experiment with load placement on your own
bike at home.  Your riding style, where you like the load (high or
low), how much weight, etc., are all individual variables.  It's
actually a fun exercise if done at home on a known route, instead of
trying to sort it out while on tour.

One bit if advice:  spend the bucks for good racks; they are worth
it.  Nitto, Tubus, Bruce Gordon, etc.  I will promise a cheap, flimsy
rack, regardless of placement, will make your life miserable with 20
lbs of panniers attached to it.

dougP

On Apr 5, 8:05 am, Khalid Mateen  wrote:
> Morning Everyone:
>
> I know that the Atlantis is design for rear loading more than front loading
> but do any of you guys fight with the instability of front loading on a
> Atlantis?
>
> Thanks
>
> K.

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[RBW] Re: Riding the Atlantis

[doug peterson]

Khalid:

I've been touring with my Atlantis since 03 & have loaded it in a
variety of ways.  For me, weight in the front is helpful.  All the
weight in the back didn't work.  Splitting the load into 4 bags &
using front low riders is stable.  After trying different things over
the years, I prefer about 60% in the front, 40% rear for the maxxed
out camping load.  For a lodging tour, I just use front low riders.  I
always have an Acorn Boxy Rando bag on & it holds a lot of stuff by
itself.

Get good stiff racks, Nitto, Tubus, Bruce Gordon, etc.  Cheap racks
will drive you crazy with 20 lbs of weight on them.  Experiment with
your own load on your bike to see what works for you.  IMHO it's as
much about your riding style as where the load is placed.  Among my
touring buds, some prefer front, some prefer rear, some don't care.
It's quite individual.

dougP

On Apr 5, 8:05 am, Khalid Mateen  wrote:
> Morning Everyone:
>
> I know that the Atlantis is design for rear loading more than front loading
> but do any of you guys fight with the instability of front loading on a
> Atlantis?
>
> Thanks
>
> K.

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[RBW] Re: Which retro derailleur for a Bombadil?

[doug peterson]

Kip:

My pre-Cambrian Fisher MTB has a Shimano Deore RD with 7 speed index
thumb shifters.  The Deore is just that, no other letters.  I think
it's a low to mid range quality.  It works so well I actually leave it
in the index mode.  The cluster is a 7 speed, 14-32 standard Shimano
HG cassette.

dougP

On Apr 5, 3:49 pm, Kip Otteson  wrote:
> Just curious about your opinions.  I've looked a little on eBay and
> I've found many Suntour XC Pro and XC Expert derailleurs and thumb
> shifters there.  By many I mean 5 or so.  I remember back in the day,
> 1988/89, that friends that were really into mountain biking loved the
> Suntour stuff.  I currently have a Nooodle bar on the Bombadil and am
> thinking about moving my current dirt drop bar setup to my wife's
> Heron and going with a Bullmoose Bar.  I'd put the thumb shifters on
> the new set up and get rid of my squeaky Deore derailleur in the
> process.  I saw the XT rear for sale on the list and I'd buy it today,
> but I was wondering what you guys/gals thought?  I want to get a 7
> speed rear wheel built up by Riv so that would be the wheel it would
> work with.  If I put the derailleur on my bike right now (9 speed)
> would it work if I just use friction mode?
>
> Thanks for your insight and opinions.
>
> Kip Otteson
> Chiang Mai, Thailand

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell chicas

[doug peterson]

Nathan:

What rack is on the pink Saluki?  Nice clean look.

dougP

On Apr 5, 8:09 am, nathan spindel  wrote:
> Here's my girlfriend's pink Saluki:http://flickr.com/photos/natan/5485711321/
>
> She's been enjoying it for commuting and the occasional long ride.
>
> -nathan
>
> On Apr 5, 2011, at 5:57 AM, Pondero  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Bring on the ladies' bikes!
>
> > --
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[RBW] Re: Rivendell chicas

[doug peterson]

My wife loves 20-30 mile recreational rides, preferably with a
destination, & doesn't get excited by bikes or bike stuff.  BUT it
only took a few minutes on a 47 cm Atlantis for her to realize she'd
been missing something:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/33786397@N03/5316663347/in/set-72157625730541682/

Good to see photos of all these bikes.  Hey, that reminds me there are
a couple of gals out there who have multiple Rivsso this bike
addiction thing is not gender specific.

dougP

On Apr 5, 10:36 am, Lisa  wrote:
> OK, I'll come out and join the delurkers.  Here (http://tinyurl.com/
> 3wnmv8b) is a picture of my 47 cm Atlantis parked in my office.  Peter
> White built it up for me last summer.  It was his last in-stock
> Atlantis frame.
>
> I ride it pretty much every day, in all weather, for commuting,
> touring, and just getting around.  I love it, it's great fun to ride
> and it fits me better than any other bike I've ever ridden.
>
> On Apr 5, 10:57 am, TSW  wrote:
>
>
>
> > It would be great if more women felt more welcome to delurk.- Hide quoted 
> > text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: (Tall Riders) Rando Bags

[doug peterson]

Kelly:

I've been pleased with Acorn's Boxy Rando on a Nitto small front rack
(same platform as Mark's, I think?).  Sits on the rack solidly, no
connnection to the h'bars.  Holds a ton of stuff.  Acorn puts a
stiffener inside so the bag pretty much maintains its shape.  Had mine
for a couple of years now & wouldn't leave home without it.  And it
looks great.

dougP

On Mar 25, 7:09 pm, Kelly Sleeper  wrote:
> I keep looking and thinking that during the summer when I'm not out to carry
> as much that a rando bag on a marks rack might be the ticket.  
>
> Trouble is I don't think they make rando bags tall enough to reach the
> Decaleur. I'm measuring about 15 inches from top of rack to bottom of
> handlebars.  
>
> So what have you done?
>
> Kelly

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[RBW] Re: Good decaleur for use with an Acorn Boxy Rando

[doug peterson]

I already had the small Nitto front rack when I bought my Acorn Boxy
Rando.  I just used it with the velcro straps & never did bother with
the side attachments.  The bag comes off easily enough but it was sort
of cumbersome to re-mount with the velcro.  I installed a pair of D-
rings on the bottom, and use a piece of shock cord with an S-hook to
hold the bag down.  Easy off, easy back on.  The shock cord has just
enough tension to keep the bag from bouncing around; actually a bit
better than the velcro in that respect.

dougP

On Mar 23, 5:18 pm, pruckelshaus  wrote:
> I just bought my first handlebar bag, an Acorn Boxy Rando.  I am not
> running a front rack or fenders, but adding a front rack isn't out of
> the question if it's needed.  What decaleur/rackaleurs have you all
> used with success paired with the Acorn?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Pete

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Atlantis

[doug peterson]

Thomas:

And nicely loaded up, too.  The caption could be "Atlantises at
work".  Maybe I'm hanging with the wrong crowd?  They do tend to
agonize about tires...

dougP

On Mar 22, 2:25 pm, Thomas Nezovich  wrote:
> Doug, you have the wrong friends.  
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/32919632@N04/4269441605/#/photos/3291963...
> That's mine in the middle.   Right to left are a 53cm, my 56 cm, list member 
> John Philip's (his picture too)  which is a bit larger.
> On Mar 22, 2011, at 3:57 PM, doug peterson wrote:
>
>
>
> > Khalid:
>
> > It's unlikely you'll run into many other Atlantises.  I'm coming up on
> > 8 years with mine & I can recall only once crossing paths with another
> > one accidently.  We had one other guy in our SoCal Riv group with one
> > but he moved.  We've got a couple of other guys who say they have
> > them :) but they keep bringing other Rivs to our rides.  It's a fairly
> > small pack, all things considered.
>
> > OTH, the blue you reference would look great on an Atlantis.  By its
> > nature, a touring bike should be bit understated, IMHO.  For instance,
> > I love the Hillborne orange as a color but I would be a bit nervous
> > leaving it locked up outside the market if I was touring far from
> > home.
>
> > Consider the extra time & expense for custom paint as well.  Plus if
> > you go with the standard color you don't have to agonize over paint
> > chips (Kelly:  how much effort did your wife expend finding the "right
> > red?")
>
> > dougP
>
> > On Mar 22, 7:48 am, Khalid Mateen  wrote:
> >> She has a nice Atlantis bicycle. Looking at the red bicycle made me rethink
> >> about getting another color besides the blues green.  I like the blue green
> >> color but I figure every atlantis as that color out and I wanted to get
> >> something a little different from the pack.  I am leaning toward the blue 
> >> on
> >> the  A Homer Hilson.
>
> >> On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Kelly Sleeper  wrote:
> >>>  Hey number one rule .. Always blame the woman.. In this case my wife
> >>> Dawn.
>
> >>> Note: she reads this forum but hasn't registered and can't post.. So I can
> >>> spew my male chauvinist pigdom freely.
>
> >>> Kelly
>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
>
> >>> On Mar 21, 2011, at 4:22 PM, Khalid Mateen  wrote:
>
> >>>    I just spoke to John about the size for the Atlantis.   I told him that
> >>> I have a PBH of 86.5cm and said a 58 would fit me.  Now I am trying to
> >>> figure out does if I want it another color beside bluesh green. It is 
> >>> Kelly
> >>> Sleeper fault for showing me that red Atlantis.  Now I am trying to figure
> >>> what color would be nice on a touring bicycle.
>
> >>> K.
> >>> On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 12:21 PM, Khalid Mateen  wrote:
>
> >>>> I am going to call them.  I just needed to feel assured somewhat on 
> >>>> buying
> >>>> a bicycle that I have not tested.  The last time I bought a bicycle was 
> >>>> 19
> >>>> years ago.  I save up 400 dollars to purchase my own bike.  Still ride it
> >>>> today but I want to get into bicycle touring/camping and I need a strong
> >>>> bicycle for the weight I am going to carry.
>
> >>>> Thanks
>
> >>>> K.
>
> >>>>   On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 11:45 AM, reynoldslugs 
> >>>> wrote:
>
> >>>>> Khalid:
>
> >>>>> Welcome to the group.  Bottom line: set your mind at ease, call the
> >>>>> Rivendell, and follow their advice.
>
> >>>>> I have a lot of bikes, maybe six customs and maybe six or seven
> >>>>> Rivendell models.  Like a lot of riders, sometimes I become silly-
> >>>>> obsessed with a centimeter or two, here and there, on the frame size
> >>>>> or top tube.  Before buying a frame, I always talk to the fellows at
> >>>>> Rivendell HQ and follow their advice about frame size.  They have
> >>>>> NEVER steered me wrong.
>
> >>>>> Each Rivendell model I have - - including an Atlantis - - fits really
> >>>>> well, and rides like a pleasant dream.  Yesterday was St Paddy's day,
> >>>>> so I rode an Emerald Green Road Custom - - so fun...
>
> >>>>> RL
>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> You r

[RBW] Re: Rivendell Atlantis

[doug peterson]

Khalid:

It's unlikely you'll run into many other Atlantises.  I'm coming up on
8 years with mine & I can recall only once crossing paths with another
one accidently.  We had one other guy in our SoCal Riv group with one
but he moved.  We've got a couple of other guys who say they have
them :) but they keep bringing other Rivs to our rides.  It's a fairly
small pack, all things considered.

OTH, the blue you reference would look great on an Atlantis.  By its
nature, a touring bike should be bit understated, IMHO.  For instance,
I love the Hillborne orange as a color but I would be a bit nervous
leaving it locked up outside the market if I was touring far from
home.

Consider the extra time & expense for custom paint as well.  Plus if
you go with the standard color you don't have to agonize over paint
chips (Kelly:  how much effort did your wife expend finding the "right
red?")

dougP

On Mar 22, 7:48 am, Khalid Mateen  wrote:
> She has a nice Atlantis bicycle. Looking at the red bicycle made me rethink
> about getting another color besides the blues green.  I like the blue green
> color but I figure every atlantis as that color out and I wanted to get
> something a little different from the pack.  I am leaning toward the blue on
> the  A Homer Hilson.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Kelly Sleeper  wrote:
> >  Hey number one rule .. Always blame the woman.. In this case my wife
> > Dawn.
>
> > Note: she reads this forum but hasn't registered and can't post.. So I can
> > spew my male chauvinist pigdom freely.
>
> > Kelly
>
> > Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Mar 21, 2011, at 4:22 PM, Khalid Mateen  wrote:
>
> >    I just spoke to John about the size for the Atlantis.   I told him that
> > I have a PBH of 86.5cm and said a 58 would fit me.  Now I am trying to
> > figure out does if I want it another color beside bluesh green. It is Kelly
> > Sleeper fault for showing me that red Atlantis.  Now I am trying to figure
> > what color would be nice on a touring bicycle.
>
> > K.
> > On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 12:21 PM, Khalid Mateen  wrote:
>
> >> I am going to call them.  I just needed to feel assured somewhat on buying
> >> a bicycle that I have not tested.  The last time I bought a bicycle was 19
> >> years ago.  I save up 400 dollars to purchase my own bike.  Still ride it
> >> today but I want to get into bicycle touring/camping and I need a strong
> >> bicycle for the weight I am going to carry.
>
> >> Thanks
>
> >> K.
>
> >>   On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 11:45 AM, reynoldslugs wrote:
>
> >>> Khalid:
>
> >>> Welcome to the group.  Bottom line: set your mind at ease, call the
> >>> Rivendell, and follow their advice.
>
> >>> I have a lot of bikes, maybe six customs and maybe six or seven
> >>> Rivendell models.  Like a lot of riders, sometimes I become silly-
> >>> obsessed with a centimeter or two, here and there, on the frame size
> >>> or top tube.  Before buying a frame, I always talk to the fellows at
> >>> Rivendell HQ and follow their advice about frame size.  They have
> >>> NEVER steered me wrong.
>
> >>> Each Rivendell model I have - - including an Atlantis - - fits really
> >>> well, and rides like a pleasant dream.  Yesterday was St Paddy's day,
> >>> so I rode an Emerald Green Road Custom - - so fun...
>
> >>> RL
>
> >>> --
> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> >>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >>> rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>
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[RBW] Re: Gray Shimano derailer cable housing busted

[doug peterson]

Gernot:

It sounds like an unusual event that will probably not repeat.  One of
my touring buds had his housing split but he couldn't recall how long
they'd been in use; many years at the least.  My '03 Atlantis still
has the original shifter cable housings.  They have integral ferrules
at each end.

You're in a pretty intense sunlight & moisture environment compared to
most of the US.  Unless it's readily available locally, you guys might
want to agree on a color & stock up as long as you're ordering.
Funny, if you keep some parts around, the ones on your bike will live
for years.

dougP

On Mar 20, 10:55 pm, Earl Grey  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> yesterday, as I shifted my Sam with alacrity into the big chainring,
> the left silver shifter went past the limit of its range of motion
> determined by the derailer limit screw. I thought perhaps the cable
> had slipped, but then saw that the housing had burst in the loop
> coming from the bar-end shifter:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/gernothuber/5545443939/
>
> This is 1.5 year old silver gray Shimano SIS SD housing purchased from
> Riv.
>
> I have never burst derailer housing, nor have I ever heard of it
> happening to others. Was this a manufacturing defect, low quality
> housing, or caused by UV damage, which the gray housing is presumably
> more subject to than black housing? Fortunately there remained enough
> tension on the cable that I could move the derailer cage by hand to
> shift and have it stay in place over the middle chainring.
>
> Has anyone had a similar experience? There is some sign of rust inside
> the housing, pointing towards a slow failure, probably starting with a
> crack in the gray housing. The gray outer covering on the tight loop
> leading to the rear derailer is also cracked. The bike is always
> parked in the car port, and is only subject to direct sunlight when I
> am riding or when it's parked outside the yoga studio or on errands
> (about 8 hours a week).
>
> I like the look of the silver, but if I have to replace the housing
> once a year, I'll probably go with black housing, of which I have a
> spool. Or should I go with silver gray *brake* housing, since I only
> use friction shifting anyway?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gernot
>
> Cheers,
>
> Gernot

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[RBW] Re: New, custom, minimalist ss rack for Riv commuter

[doug peterson]

I love racks; it's the only way I can hang all my junk onto my
bike :).

Seriously, a nice looking rack can enhance both the beauty and utility
of a bike.

dougP

On Mar 20, 11:20 am, robert zeidler  wrote:
> I hate racks and think we Riv owners hang way too much junk on our
> bikes, but man that is a beauty.  I'd put that on even if I never
> carried anything.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 12:20 PM, PATRICK MOORE  wrote:
> >https://picasaweb.google.com/BERTIN753/BIKESMISCELLANEA#5586195366486...
> > Lighter than the already very light Fly and very stiff. I'll not put more
> > than 25 lb on it anyway. I found that it is 1 cm too close to the rear
> > fender at the fender's apogee, where the hooks/clips on the Ortliebs contact
> > the fender. I cut material from the hooks and, for good measure dimpled the
> > fender where the forward hooks contacted it, this last probably not
> > necessary. I plan to bolt a battery light of some sort at the tail end of
> > the rack; a hole is provided. Learn by experience: one more cm would have
> > made all this unnecessary; my fault for not thinking of it.
> > One little issue: the rack struts (nicely lugged at the attachment point)
> > are about 1 cm wide so that even the 1 cm long eyebolt for Berthoud type
> > fenders is too short. Does anyone know if one can get, say, 12.5 mm
> > eyebolts? Alternatively, I could use regular 1 cm eyebolts to mount the rack
> > -- the struts flatten at the mounting point -- so that the eyebolt would
> > serve the two purposes. Will these be strong enough?
> > Right now I am using P or R clips from VO attached at the strut-to-frame
> > mounting points.
>
> > --
> > Patrick Moore
> > Albuquerque, NM
> > For professional resumes, contact
> > Patrick Moore, ACRW at patrickmo...@resumespecialties.com
>
> > --
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[RBW] Re: New, custom, minimalist ss rack for Riv commuter

[doug peterson]

Patrick:

That is nicely done, very tasteful.  Does your rack maker do this as a
regular part of his business or is he interested in doing customs?
The work looks beautiful.

I have a Nitto big rack on the back of the Atlantis.  While
functional, it does look look like a bridge, with the corner bracing &
generally rectangular look.  I've often mused on something simpler,
but need to support perhaps 30 lbs at the max.  Mass produced racks
seem to be at the extremes, designed either for a 10 lb trunk bag or
50 lbs touring load.

dougP

On Mar 20, 9:20 am, PATRICK MOORE  wrote:
> https://picasaweb.google.com/BERTIN753/BIKESMISCELLANEA#5586195366486...
>
> Lighter than the already very light Fly and very stiff. I'll not put more
> than 25 lb on it anyway. I found that it is 1 cm too close to the rear
> fender at the fender's apogee, where the hooks/clips on the Ortliebs contact
> the fender. I cut material from the hooks and, for good measure dimpled the
> fender where the forward hooks contacted it, this last probably not
> necessary. I plan to bolt a battery light of some sort at the tail end of
> the rack; a hole is provided. Learn by experience: one more cm would have
> made all this unnecessary; my fault for not thinking of it.
>
> One little issue: the rack struts (nicely lugged at the attachment point)
> are about 1 cm wide so that even the 1 cm long eyebolt for Berthoud type
> fenders is too short. Does anyone know if one can get, say, 12.5 mm
> eyebolts? Alternatively, I could use regular 1 cm eyebolts to mount the rack
> -- the struts flatten at the mounting point -- so that the eyebolt would
> serve the two purposes. Will these be strong enough?
>
> Right now I am using P or R clips from VO attached at the strut-to-frame
> mounting points.
>
> --
> Patrick Moore
> Albuquerque, NM
> For professional resumes, contact
> Patrick Moore, ACRW at patrickmo...@resumespecialties.com

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[RBW] Re: Japanese Atlantis vs Wisconsin Waterford Atlantis

[doug peterson]

Khalid:

I'm diving in here without reading any further posts, so forgive me if
others make similar points.

First, I'll bet there is absolutely ZERO difference in quality between
Toyo & Waterford frames.  It's Rivendell's lugs & spec on the tubing.
I'll speculate that Rivendell has sawed thru a lot of brazed joints to
see what potential vendors produce, and that only the best are
selected to produce frames.

Second, only Riv could say whether there was a "run" on frames or
not.  But people in general have a fear of change so some fence
sitters may have been motivated to buy, knowing Toyo's reputation.

On a more general note, Waterford has been building frames for a long
time and has an excellent reputation.  I can't believe anyone could
make them any better.

FWIW, mine is an '03.  I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Waterford, and am
willing to bet I couldn't tell the difference.  Well, they get a
kickstand plate now which I'd really like to have.

dougP

On Mar 20, 8:38 am, Khalid Mateen  wrote:
> I do not want to start a fiery debate about this but what makes japanese
> atlantis built bicycle superior to the American made ones?  Just curious.
> When there was an announcement that Rivendell would no longer have the Toyo
> plant build their bicycles, people with money to spare went after the last
> batch of those frames.  It is the steel?  The craftmanship?
>
> Regards,
>
> K.

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Atlantis

[doug peterson]

Also think about what tires you plan to use.  The Atlantis is intended
for 35 mm to 52 mm widths.  With most tires, the diameter increases
along with the width.  Actual width can vary from nominal.  I have
always used 35 mm width and Pasela, T-serv and Schwalbe have all
measured different, even though labeled "35 mm".

dougP

On Mar 18, 10:41 am, Khalid Mateen  wrote:
> I check it.  I am either getting a 58cm frame or a 61 cm frame.  I wont know
> until I talk to them.
>
> K.
>
> On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 2:26 PM, CycloFiend wrote:
>
>
>
> > on 3/18/11 9:01 AM, Khalid Mateen at krm2...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > I do not know what sizes will fit me on a Rivendell.  They do not have
> > the
> > > sizing on the frame based on a PBH anymore.
>
> > Yonder:
> >http://www.rivbike.com/article/bike_fit/choosing_a_frame_size
>
> >http://www.rivbike.com/article/bike_fit/pbh_and_how_to_measure_it
>
> > --
> > Jim Edgar
> > cyclofi...@earthlink.net
>
> > Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries -http://www.cyclofiend.com
> > Current Classics - Cross Bikes
> > Singlespeed - Working Bikes
>
> > Gallery updates now appear here -http://cyclofiend.blogspot.com
>
> > "'You both ride your bike?' He held his hands out and grabbed imaginary
> > handlebars, grinning indulgently, eyeing Tom's helmet.  Double disbeleif:
> > not one, but two grown Americans riding bicycles."
> > -- Neal Stephenson, "Zodiac"
>
> > --
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> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Atlantis

[doug peterson]

Talk to Mathew in VA - see his posting here about his 61 cm for sale
("hisnhers...").

dougP

On Mar 18, 5:11 am, Khalid Mateen  wrote:
> I am actually in NJ.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 1:22 AM, Seth Vidal  wrote:
> >  On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 9:55 PM, Khalid Mateen  wrote:
> > > Hello everyone:
>
> > > I am new to this forum and I have a question to ask about ordering an
> > > Atlantis.  I have taken my PBH but I am no where near Walnut Creek
> > > California.  I am on the east coast of the US and no where near a
> > Rivendell
> > > Dealer.  Can you tell me, your experience of bicycle fit when ordering
> > over
> > > the phone a bicycle that you have never tried?  Did the bicycle feel to
> > big
> > > or too small?  I have always heard good things about the people who work
> > for
> > > Rivendell Bicycle works but wanted to ask people who actually purchase
> > their
> > > bicycles.
>
> > Where on the east coast are you?
>
> > maybe ask if there are atlantis owners nearby you.
>
> > we're all over the place.
> > -sv
>
> > --
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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Atlantis

[doug peterson]

Khalid:

Just in case you need any more encouragement, here's the link to
cyclofiend's site on all things Atlantis:

http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/atlantis/

Take a look at some of the set-ups shown.  It's an incredibly
versatile bike.

dougP

On Mar 17, 6:55 pm, Khalid Mateen  wrote:
> Hello everyone:
>
> I am new to this forum and I have a question to ask about ordering an
> Atlantis.  I have taken my PBH but I am no where near Walnut Creek
> California.  I am on the east coast of the US and no where near a Rivendell
> Dealer.  Can you tell me, your experience of bicycle fit when ordering over
> the phone a bicycle that you have never tried?  Did the bicycle feel to big
> or too small?  I have always heard good things about the people who work for
> Rivendell Bicycle works but wanted to ask people who actually purchase their
> bicycles.
>
> THanks
>
> Khalid

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Atlantis

[doug peterson]

Khalid:

Have a look at this link to an old Atlantis sizing chart:

http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/atlantis/atlflyer/04.html

I have two Atlantis catalogues with sizing charts.  They are not dated
so don't know which is more current but neither is less than 8-9 years
old.  One lists the 58 for PBH from 84 cm to 89, and seat height from
74 cm to 79.  The 61 is for 87 cm to 93 PBH and 77 to 82 seat height.
The other catalogue has tightened up the range on measurements so
there is only 1-2 mm overlap between sizes.

Others have mentioned that once you're in the ballpark, a cm here &
there is within the range of adjustment.  According to Riv's charts,
at 88 cm PBH you could ride either a 58 or a 61.  IIRC they are quite
close in the top tube dimension.

dougP

On Mar 18, 10:01 am, Khalid Mateen  wrote:
> I do not know what sizes will fit me on a Rivendell.  They do not have the
> sizing on the frame based on a PBH anymore.  I am about the same height as
> you.  I am 5'-10/2" with an inseam of 32 inches (at least that is what I buy
> in pant sizes).  Maybe I need a 58.  My PBH is around 88cm.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 12:42 PM, doug peterson  wrote:
> > Khalid:
>
> > What size(s) are you considering?  The 58 & 61 have some overlap in
> > PBH & seat height.  Riv suggested a 61 for me but I'd never ridden
> > anything larger than a 58.  I went with 58 with a 10 cm stem & it's
> > been perfect.  FWIW, I'd never even seen a Rivendell live before I
> > unpacked mine.  I just put the h'bars & seat at the height of my old
> > bike, hopped on & took off.  Within a mile I knew I'd gotten the right
> > size.  I've only got an inch or so of clearance with both feet on the
> > ground, with 35 mm tires.  A bit of clearance when you hop off is
> > comforting.
>
> > I don't recall my PBH but it must be in the high 80s.  I'm 5'11", 32"
> > inseam.  Initially I was talking to Riv about a custom (I thought I
> > wanted couplings) but after all the measurin'n'figurin', they
> > suggested just buying a stock Atlantis.  Best bicycle advice I've ever
> > gotten.
>
> > Have you taken all your bike's measurements?  In addition to you,
> > measure your current bike's relation of seat to h'bars, seat height,
> > etc.  As others have suggested, talk to Riv live about this.  Knowing
> > what you're comfortable with now helps clarify the size question.
>
> > dougP
>
> > On Mar 17, 6:55 pm, Khalid Mateen  wrote:
> >  > Hello everyone:
>
> > > I am new to this forum and I have a question to ask about ordering an
> > > Atlantis.  I have taken my PBH but I am no where near Walnut Creek
> > > California.  I am on the east coast of the US and no where near a
> > Rivendell
> > > Dealer.  Can you tell me, your experience of bicycle fit when ordering
> > over
> > > the phone a bicycle that you have never tried?  Did the bicycle feel to
> > big
> > > or too small?  I have always heard good things about the people who work
> > for
> > > Rivendell Bicycle works but wanted to ask people who actually purchase
> > their
> > > bicycles.
>
> > > THanks
>
> > > Khalid
>
> > --
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[RBW] Re: Wife's new Atlantis

[doug peterson]

Kelly:

That's one of the nicest Atlantis' around.  What a color.  Tubus Cosmo
(?) rear rack?  Looks like stainless.  Thanks for having the patience
to photo while unpacking.

dougP

On Mar 18, 12:09 pm, Kelly Sleeper  wrote:
> Ok so since Dawn hasn't posted I can't help but share this beauty!
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/tksleeper/5516895710/in/photostream/
>
> I think I may be jealous of the way this one turned out. :)
>
> Kelly

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Atlantis

[doug peterson]

Khalid:

What size(s) are you considering?  The 58 & 61 have some overlap in
PBH & seat height.  Riv suggested a 61 for me but I'd never ridden
anything larger than a 58.  I went with 58 with a 10 cm stem & it's
been perfect.  FWIW, I'd never even seen a Rivendell live before I
unpacked mine.  I just put the h'bars & seat at the height of my old
bike, hopped on & took off.  Within a mile I knew I'd gotten the right
size.  I've only got an inch or so of clearance with both feet on the
ground, with 35 mm tires.  A bit of clearance when you hop off is
comforting.

I don't recall my PBH but it must be in the high 80s.  I'm 5'11", 32"
inseam.  Initially I was talking to Riv about a custom (I thought I
wanted couplings) but after all the measurin'n'figurin', they
suggested just buying a stock Atlantis.  Best bicycle advice I've ever
gotten.

Have you taken all your bike's measurements?  In addition to you,
measure your current bike's relation of seat to h'bars, seat height,
etc.  As others have suggested, talk to Riv live about this.  Knowing
what you're comfortable with now helps clarify the size question.

dougP

On Mar 17, 6:55 pm, Khalid Mateen  wrote:
> Hello everyone:
>
> I am new to this forum and I have a question to ask about ordering an
> Atlantis.  I have taken my PBH but I am no where near Walnut Creek
> California.  I am on the east coast of the US and no where near a Rivendell
> Dealer.  Can you tell me, your experience of bicycle fit when ordering over
> the phone a bicycle that you have never tried?  Did the bicycle feel to big
> or too small?  I have always heard good things about the people who work for
> Rivendell Bicycle works but wanted to ask people who actually purchase their
> bicycles.
>
> THanks
>
> Khalid

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[RBW] Re: When is a bike to heavy?

[doug peterson]

There's more to it than just gross tonnage.  My wife has 2 bikes that
weigh within a water bottle of each other.  She claims the Atlantis
feels much lighter, and she climbs noticebly faster on it.  I'm happy
to encourage that sort of thinking.

My bike usually weighs around 30 lbs with Nitto big back rack, small
front rack, and Acorn Boxy Rando bag mostly empty.  Strong wheels &
nice cushy 35 mm tires seem a small performance loss to give up for
reliability & comfort.

dougP

On Mar 17, 5:54 pm, MichaelH  wrote:
> OK, now that we have dispensed with helmets, allow me to raise another
> controversial topic.
>
> This is not like, when am I too heavy, which is easy right now.
>
> I have 4 bikes, well 6 really, but we wont go into those details.  All
> four of them are around 62 cm and get ridden regularly - a 1988
> classic stage racing frame, weighing around 22 lbs; a Rambouillet,
> outfitted with White/ Open Pro wheels,  a White dbl crank, Honjo
> fenders,  a Mark's Rack, and light tires also weighing about 22 lbs.;
> a 1984 Trek (Reynolds 531 standard gauge tubing)  with Shimano 9 speed
> cranks and shifters, SKS Fenders, Passella 32 mm T Guards and  coming
> in around 25 lbs; and An Ebisu All Purpose, with front and real steel
> racks, steel fenders, MA 40 Rims, triple DaVinci Cranks, and 38 mm
> Avocet Cross tires that weighs in at a hefty 30 lbs.
>
> I live in Vermont, which has lots of rolling hills and some
> significant climbs.   Do you think the 5 lbs alone, between the Trek
> and Ebisu is enough to effect the performance?  What about the 3 lb
> difference between the Rambouillet and the Trek?  Or, are the
> perceived differences imaginary?
>
> michael

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[RBW] Re: WTB: Thule fork mount long trays

[doug peterson]

Long trays are around 42" (my ancient ones).  Long trays run all the
way from the front wheel mount to the rear crossbar and may extend
beyond the crossbar to support the rear wheel.  This is needed with a
short roof car where the bars can  only be spaced 3' or so apart.

With short trays, the front wheel mounts attach to one bar and the
trays to the other bar.  This requires the bars be mounted roughly the
wheelbase of the bike(s) apart.  This limits the ability to carry an
adult bike and a child size bike.

dougP

On Mar 9, 7:00 am, Kelly Sleeper  wrote:
> How long are the long trays.  I have two Thule fork and tray units complete.
> They are not the disk brake models
>
> Kelly
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 9, 2011, at 12:48 AM, cyclotourist  wrote:
>
>
>
> > I have a new car with a shorter roof line, and can't use my existing short 
> > tray racks.  Wondering if someone has any long trays lying that around they 
> > want to sell.  I don't need the actual fork mount part, just the trays.  
> > One would be okay, but two would be better.
>
> > Thanks,
> > David
> > --
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[RBW] ISO: split DT cable stops

[doug peterson]

After a diligent search of the interweb for a part that may not exist,
I'm appealing to your vast store of knowledge.  I'm putting DaVinci
cable splitters on the Atlantis to make h'bar removal for shipping
easier.  To remove the h'bars requires removing the DT cable stops.
No biggie, except those little screws like to run & hide, unless
firmly duct taped.  What would be really neat is a bolt-on DT cable
stop that's split, same as the rear brake cable stops.  Has anyone
seen such a fitting?  Now that I've got this notion, plan B involves a
hacksaw & the potential sacrifice of a cable stop :).

dougP

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[RBW] Re: Sigh. Busted compression washers on the Silvers. sigh.

[doug peterson]

Charlie:

If you make those washers out of brass, I'm interested.  Regardless of
the life expectancy of the gray plastic washers, the brass would be a
lot better looking...even nicer after some exposure to the elements.
Functionality plus aesthetics.

dougP

On Mar 6, 3:04 pm, charlie  wrote:
> I enjoy mine mounted on the down tube as they are long enough to reach
> and they are silky smooth. To be honest they are just levers to me
> ratcheting or not (although that feature is pleasant) they allow me to
> derail the chain onto a different cog and that's about it. The fact
> that they look nice on the bike is a bonus. They seem to be well made
> and in spite of the little plastic washer thingy that sometimes
> cracks, mine have been going strong for several years now. I will make
> my own exact duplicate washers out of brass because I can and in fact,
> I could make many of them but it wouldn't affect my choice to buy them
> again. The Shimano's seem nice but I don't index and the only others I
> have used are Campagnolo's and the old Suntour ratcheting ones that
> keep on ticking on my old Raleigh. I acquired them off an old junk
> bike for free. I don't know if the Shimano levers work or look good on
> the down tube but the Silvers do and I am satisfied.
>
> On Mar 6, 1:09 pm, Mike S  wrote:
>
>
>
> > I have Shimano Ultegra bar end shifters on a bike of mine, and in my
> > opinion they work splendidly. I've never had any mechanical problem
> > with them in two years, they're made in Japan (I think) and I don't
> > know of any plasticy vulnerabilities. They are also $35 cheaper than
> > the Silvers, so I'm wondering why/if people think the Silvers are far
> > superior?
>
> > I was going to get the SIlvers when I was setting this bike up, but
> > the price tag was a bit hefty compared to the Shimanos. ANybody got an
> > argument as to why Silvers are worth it?
>
> > On Mar 6, 2:05 pm, charlie  wrote:
>
> > > Its okay Grant...I'd say most of us are sensible enough to realize
> > > the insignificance and accept the commonly available  substitute born
> > > of Yankee ingenuity.
>
> > > On Mar 6, 10:30 am, grant  wrote:
>
> > > > Nobody should be horrified, shocked, or even disappointed that we
> > > > "spec'd a part with fragile plastic." There's more to it than that.
> > > > We don't get lab results or long-term test results for every part on
> > > > every component we use. There's a certain amount of faith involved, or
> > > > else you can't move. In this case, the same sources were used for the
> > > > Silver washers as were used for the SunTour Sprint washers, and I've
> > > > had them last 5 years. "Failure" means they crack or a chunk falls
> > > > out, but they are failsafemeaning safe when they've failed. We
> > > > don't use plastic forks (except for eating with sometimes), but a
> > > > plastic washer now and thenit's not horrid.
> > > > Two years ago we offered a 3-piece metal and plastic mix of washers
> > > > you could get at a hardware store. We provided them free for the
> > > > asking. Beyond that, we told the maker Hey Please Do Better, and
> > > > before we OK'd the "improved" part, we hung it and an old one out in
> > > > the sun, zip-tied to a bike rack where it could get sunbaked badly.
> > > > Then we tried to mash both. The old cracked, the new didn't, and those
> > > > are the ones we got now.
>
> > > > Grant "this is as defensive as I get, and sorry 'bout it" Petersen
>
> > > > On Mar 5, 2:23 pm, Justin August  wrote:
>
> > > > > Took out the Bleriot with Hetres for a spin and while hanging out
> > > > > reading a book it fell over and now one of my compression washers is
> > > > > cracked. Annoying, can't believe Riv specced a part with fragile
> > > > > plastic, etc….
>
> > > > > My question: Do I wait for VO to get more in stock or can I use
> > > > > something else? Can I use a leather washer instead of a compression
> > > > > washer?
>
> > > > > Or am I boned?
>
> > > > > Pics of the Bleriot: (ignore my front derailler cable 
> > > > > fray)http://www.flickr.com/photos/justinaugust/5500751630/in/set-721576245...-
> > > > >  Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Sigh. Busted compression washers on the Silvers. sigh.

[doug peterson]

If you're at the hardware store getting the washers as shown in the
Riv video, also get some star washers if they have them.  I used them
in place of the lock washer as they seem to hold better.

Riv mentions that the gray plastic washer is a weak link, would be
metal in a perfect world, but it ain't gonna happen so the alternate
washer kit is a work around.  It works.

dougP

On Mar 5, 4:11 pm, Minh  wrote:
> Are you talking about the little grey disks? these are a known
> limitation of the silvers shifters, they're great but not perfect.
> rivendell has a kit, but i think you can also piece together your own
> kit at the hardware store, here's the video that shows what you're
> looking forhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO_6CoVjnvo
>
> i wish they were metal (i have a set of suntour cyclones that are like
> this), but then again my sprint shifters w/ plastic washers are still
> holding together after 10 years, and your's broke after it fell, just
> saying ;)
>
> On Mar 5, 5:23 pm, Justin August  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Took out the Bleriot with Hetres for a spin and while hanging out
> > reading a book it fell over and now one of my compression washers is
> > cracked. Annoying, can't believe Riv specced a part with fragile
> > plastic, etc….
>
> > My question: Do I wait for VO to get more in stock or can I use
> > something else? Can I use a leather washer instead of a compression
> > washer?
>
> > Or am I boned?
>
> > Pics of the Bleriot: (ignore my front derailler cable 
> > fray)http://www.flickr.com/photos/justinaugust/5500751630/in/set-721576245...-
> >  Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Silver Bar-End Shifters

[doug peterson]

I don't think they are front / rear specific.  I find that having the
D-rings on the outside makes them easier to adjust friction while
riding.  Both the pods & levers are clearly marked "L" and "R".  Now I
know one reason.

dougP

On Mar 5, 4:37 pm, Minh  wrote:
> As i'm thinking about Silver Shifters, i was looking at the videos and
> i realize that i've had my silver shifters mounted reverse for the
> last 10 years.  What i mean is i have them facing out instead of
> facing in.  I'm guessing you want to face them in to protect them from
> falls etc.
>
> But now i'm wondering, are friction shifters front/rear specific?  I
> realize i've swapped them now, but never had a concern till i noticed
> today :)

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[RBW] Re: Lay-aways

[doug peterson]

"Why not 20% down and 8 equal 10% payments?  Why not 25% down
> and 6 equal 12.5% payments?"

Where's the fun in that?  And you call yourself a "recreational
mathematician"!  What's your average rate of furlongs per fortnight
when riding?

dougP

On Mar 1, 12:51 pm, William  wrote:
> I am very fond of Rivendell as a business and I am possibly even more
> fond of Rivendell's employees as individuals.  Please remember that
> when I make the comment below:
>
> How "typically Rivendell" it is to figure out a payment plan that
> takes 20% down and then 7 equal payments of
> 11.428571428571428571428571% per month after that.  I like 6-digit
> repeating decimals as much as the next recreational mathematician, but
> dude.  Why not 20% down and 8 equal 10% payments?  Why not 25% down
> and 6 equal 12.5% payments?  Hopefully they have a computer do it all,
> but it's amusing to me how un-simple they tend to make certain
> things.  It's actually kind of endearing.
>
> On Mar 1, 11:54 am, grrlyrida  wrote:
>
>
>
> > +1,000,000
> > I'm gonna try it next month with a Betty Foy. First red heteres are in
> > and now this. Yippee!!!
>
> > On Mar 1, 11:02 am, William  wrote:
>
> > > +1
>
> > > I like my Hillborne a lot, but I think I would like an Atlantis even
> > > better.  Hmmm
>
> > > On Mar 1, 10:43 am, Pondero  wrote:
>
> > > >http://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news_post/335
>
> > > > Okay, how many read this and immediately thought, "Hmmm(insert new
> > > > bike dream here), 20% down would be...and remainder divided by 7
> > > > equals..."?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis color?

[doug peterson]

Steve:

Thanks for posting; I'm going to print that to see how closely it
matches the bike.  I've used the Testors to touch up & it does look
different but that may be just the brushing on & lack of proper prep.
I'll see if the painter can work with the CMYK code.  That's the sort
of info I was looking for.

I contacted Testors customer service to see if they can provide cross
reference to an auto paint available in sufficient quantity.  We'll
see what they come up with.

dougP

On Feb 26, 11:51 am, "Steve D."  wrote:
> After successfully painting my Silca pump with the touch up paint that
> Riv sent with my Atlantis frame that I bought in '03, I've been
> considering painting my SKS plastic fenders to match. Following
> Grant's lead in the last post/reply, I searched the web for Testor's
> USSR Interior Blue Green #2135 and found 
> this:http://www.art-paints.com/Paints/Acrylic/Testors/Model/USSR-Interior-...
> which gives the CMYK code of 67, 24, 47, 2. Here's the color swatch
> from the Tester's site:http://www.testors.com/product/0/2135/_/
>
> It's too bad Testor's only sells this color in .5 oz containers.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Steve DeMont
> Seattle
>
> On Feb 24, 6:58 am, bicyclebill  wrote:
>
>
>
> > I had some front rack braze-ons added to my Bleriot by a local
> > framebuilder (Peter Mooney) but he couldn't match the paint.
> > Rivendell was actually not helpful and could not provide a paint
> > number that could be given to a local painter.  When I get some time,
> > I've been referred to a custom shop in Providence, RI (Circle A) where
> > I hope they can match it by eye or trial and error.
>
> > Bill
>
> > On Feb 23, 7:45 pm, Mike  wrote:> Have you contacted 
> > Rivendell? Seems like they'd be able to help you
> > > with it. Or even Waterford since they're now making the Atlantis for
> > > Riv.
>
> > > On Feb 23, 4:06 pm, doug peterson  wrote:
>
> > > > Has anyone ever had something painted to match their Atlantis?  I'm
> > > > talking to a guy (not local to me) about painting some parts to match
> > > > the standard color.  He says if he has a Dupont automotive paint
> > > > number he can do it.  The Testor's modeling paint is OK for touch up
> > > > but not close enough for a large area.  So if anyone has solved this
> > > > problem already I'm interested in hearing from you.
>
> > > > dougP- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Warning: non-scientific experiment under construction (650B vs 700C)

[doug peterson]

FWIW, list member Anne has a pair of Atlantises all to herself!

We got lucky on my wife's bike.  Another list member noticed for sale
& let me know.  We weren't even bike shopping & bought it from someone
who was moving & had to get rid of things in a hurry.  Her loss was
our gain, as they say.

dougP

On Feb 26, 9:49 am, Mojo  wrote:
> Both of you own an Atlantis? Sheesh, Life is Good!
>
> On Feb 26, 9:56 am, doug peterson  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Since this is a "non-scientific tire test" I'll throw in some data to
> > confuse the issue further.  My wife is a small, light person who's
> > ridden for a long time on an aluminum Trek with 700c wheels & Paselas
> > marked 28 mm, measure 26 mm at 80 psi.  On her 26" wheeled Atlantis, I
> > installed some 1.25" wide Panaracer Urban Max (even the name sounds
> > heavy!) and inflate to around 60 psi.  Both bikes weigh the same +/- a
> > water bottle.
>
> > Her downhill style is sitting bolt upright and coasting, so which bike
> > "should" roll faster in this real world roll down test?  We ride a lot
> > of local bike paths that have underpasses where my considerable
> > greater mass gets me going a lot faster.  She nearly keeps up on the
> > 26" wheeled Atlantis, while drifting painfully behind on the 700
> > wheeled bike.  Bigger wheels roll faster?  Maybe not the entire
> > answer?  While it provides hours of amusement to speculate, I'm happy
> > she loves her Atlantis and the Trek is now a "guest bike"..
>
> > dougP
>
> > On Feb 26, 7:54 am, Patrick in VT  wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 25, 2:56 pm, William  wrote:
> > >   
>
> > > > A lot of comfort is bike fit, though, and the 700x28 wheels won't change
> > > > any of my fit points on the bike, so maybe I'll feel just as good.
> > > > Who knows?  
>
> > > Depends on the roads, no?  most of the long rides I do happen to
> > > include a lot of dirt - I really like 650b for these rides because it
> > > is definitely more comfortable when the pavement ends.
>
> > > for road rides, my 700c bike with 25s is just plain faster.  every now
> > > and then, i'll take my 650b rig (which is actually a sporty bike -
> > > columbus spirit-for-lugs tubes/pari-motos/white industries H2s laced
> > > to aerohead rims) out with some fast friends (who i can normally put
> > > the hurt on) and it's a struggle just to keep up.  the pari-motos at
> > > 50psi just don't accelerate like a narrower tire at higher pressure -
> > > and it's very noticeable when you need to get back up to 25mph in a
> > > hurry.  this is what "fast" means to me.
>
> > > just cruising along, I don't really notice a difference - i'm as fast
> > > as my legs and lungs are strong on any given day.  but the bike/wheel
> > > choice becomes pretty clear given the type of ride i'm about to do:
> > > rough-stuff mixed terrain or long brevet - 650b!!  spirited road ride
> > > - 700c!!- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Warning: non-scientific experiment under construction (650B vs 700C)

[doug peterson]

Since this is a "non-scientific tire test" I'll throw in some data to
confuse the issue further.  My wife is a small, light person who's
ridden for a long time on an aluminum Trek with 700c wheels & Paselas
marked 28 mm, measure 26 mm at 80 psi.  On her 26" wheeled Atlantis, I
installed some 1.25" wide Panaracer Urban Max (even the name sounds
heavy!) and inflate to around 60 psi.  Both bikes weigh the same +/- a
water bottle.

Her downhill style is sitting bolt upright and coasting, so which bike
"should" roll faster in this real world roll down test?  We ride a lot
of local bike paths that have underpasses where my considerable
greater mass gets me going a lot faster.  She nearly keeps up on the
26" wheeled Atlantis, while drifting painfully behind on the 700
wheeled bike.  Bigger wheels roll faster?  Maybe not the entire
answer?  While it provides hours of amusement to speculate, I'm happy
she loves her Atlantis and the Trek is now a "guest bike"..

dougP

On Feb 26, 7:54 am, Patrick in VT  wrote:
> On Feb 25, 2:56 pm, William  wrote:
>   
>
> > A lot of comfort is bike fit, though, and the 700x28 wheels won't change
> > any of my fit points on the bike, so maybe I'll feel just as good.
> > Who knows?  
>
> Depends on the roads, no?  most of the long rides I do happen to
> include a lot of dirt - I really like 650b for these rides because it
> is definitely more comfortable when the pavement ends.
>
> for road rides, my 700c bike with 25s is just plain faster.  every now
> and then, i'll take my 650b rig (which is actually a sporty bike -
> columbus spirit-for-lugs tubes/pari-motos/white industries H2s laced
> to aerohead rims) out with some fast friends (who i can normally put
> the hurt on) and it's a struggle just to keep up.  the pari-motos at
> 50psi just don't accelerate like a narrower tire at higher pressure -
> and it's very noticeable when you need to get back up to 25mph in a
> hurry.  this is what "fast" means to me.
>
> just cruising along, I don't really notice a difference - i'm as fast
> as my legs and lungs are strong on any given day.  but the bike/wheel
> choice becomes pretty clear given the type of ride i'm about to do:
> rough-stuff mixed terrain or long brevet - 650b!!  spirited road ride
> - 700c!!

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[RBW] Re: Warning: non-scientific experiment under construction (650B vs 700C)

[doug peterson]

My guess is the 700s will seem faster but the 650s will actually be
quicker.  The difficulty will be that you know which set's on the
bike.  I can't imagine there being a significant difference in speed
but I can see how you could detect a significant difference in
comfort.  I think the comfort-being-faster thing kicks in when you're
on the bike for hours and won't come into play on your daily commute.
It'll be interesting to see the actual results.

dougP

On Feb 25, 10:04 am, William  wrote:
> OK so I made a sort of self-indulgent mod to my A. Homer Hilsen.  I
> set up the normally 650B bike with a 700C wheelset and short reach
> brakes.  It's a wheelset I already had, and a short-reach brakeset I
> already had.  So now I have a single bike that can easily be taken on
> a ride with 650Bx(whatever) tires one day, and taken on the same ride
> with 700x(23-28) tires the next, or whatever.
>
> I bought the bike because of the feel of 650B, and I'm thrilled with
> it.  Like most of you, I've been skeptical of the claims from Jan H
> and others that fat tires are faster.  That said, on brevets in the
> last couple of months, I've been surprised at how quickly I catch and
> pass riders on coasting descents when I'm on 650x38 at 50psi and they
> are on 700x23 and I presume 90-110psi.  That's anecdotal, and doesn't
> necessarily mean anything, but it was surprising.
>
> So, now I think it will be fun to do a pseudo-scientific spot
> comparison between 650B and 700C.  My commute to work is a 35-mile
> hilly ride through the east bay hills from El Cerrito to South
> Hayward.  A good chunk of that is a non-stop stretch.  I can usually
> get from my front door to a traffic signal in front of Castro Valley
> High School without stopping or putting my foot down.  The next 10
> times I do this commute, I'm going to alternate between the two
> wheelsets, and record my time for the same non-stop stretch for these
> ten rides.  The 650B tires will be hetres at 50/45psi, and the 700C
> tires will be continental gatorskin 28s at 85/80psi.
>
> Anyone care to guess which will seem faster?  Too close to call?
> Impossible to test unless the rider is blind to the wheel
> configuration?  Any advice on keeping the data clean?

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[RBW] Re: Introduction to Bike Touring course

[doug peterson]

Rene:

Others have covered the pannier, gear, training, etc. issues well so
nothing to add there.  How about doing a few S24Os before your trip?
Load up all the stuff you think you may need for the long trip & see
how it is to ride.  You may ID things that aren't so important or
remember things you should have brought.  A bike with 4 bags is a
different animal than a commuter load.

+1 for the comment about getting off the bike frequenlty.  I'm a bit
older than you & find that a short (5-10 minute max) break after a
couple of hours in the morning, followed by hourly breaks the rest of
the day, is revitalizing.

dougP

On Feb 24, 9:11 pm, Kelly Sleeper  wrote:
> Here is a great site for 
> information..http://www.bicycletouring101.com/index.html
>
> Enjoy your Arkels.  I've been touring with mine for the last 5 years and can
> state without reservation that they perform as well as anything out there.
> Weight is way over rated, especially when touring.
>
> I'm not saying over pack, but there is comfort a good book brings to the
> campsite, or comfort for me a computer / email / connectivity brings.   We
> are all different but comfort is key to me.  So pack smart for what you are
> doing, but keep comfort and enjoyment as the top priority.  Then room.
> Worry about weight later.   Leave space for expansion along the way.  My
> last trip I ended up with 10 shot glasses, a new coat, t shirts, ball caps
> and such from tourist traps.
>
> A larger tent adds a pound or two but leaves room for me to sit up in and
> have all my gear inside the tent wtih me.  Great for packing up on those
> rainy windy days.  Also nice for card games at night.
>
> Speaking of tents.. make sure it's easy to put up and take down since you do
> it daily.
>
> Test before you leave.  Even heavy loads work great on hills if you have the
> gearing.
>
> I'm jealous and can't wait to hear how it goes.
>
> Kelly
>
> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 10:21 PM, Rene Sterental wrote:
>
>
>
> > Thanks Dave. You make some good points too. I already have the Arkel
> > panniers. I know some peep think they're heavy, but I just fell in love with
> > them. I'll make it a point to try to pack as efficiently as possible. I'm
> > not planning on carrying a laptop or long cords on that tour, but want to
> > bring my iPhone and my Garmin 800, so I've purchased the watchamacallit to
> > recharge them from the Son 28 hub.  I think I'll have to also get adapter to
> > make sjre current flows steadily to the devices when the Son isn't moving;
> > I'm still figuring out how the whole thing works.
>
> > All of this advice is great
>
> > Thanks to all who have submitted it via the list and privately as well.
>
> > René
>
> > Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Feb 24, 2011, at 7:46 PM, Dave Craig  wrote:
>
> > > Awesome, René!
>
> > > I did the ACA tour leader training and I found it to be a lot of fun.
> > > The leaders were very knowledgeable, yet humble, and I really enjoyed
> > > learning more about the ACA.
>
> > > As a counterpoint to Kelly, I think the most important thing is to
> > > pack light. To me, the extra comforts mean that I might think twice
> > > about enticing side roads or stopping at a fruit stand to stock up on
> > > the way to camp. Everything I pack fits inside my Ortlieb front and
> > > rear panniers. I don't usually have anything on top of my racks and I
> > > don't often use a handlebar bag.
>
> > > Your rack set up seems fine to me. Unless you already have them, the
> > > Arkel panniers you mention are heavy and a little complex for my
> > > tastes - to each his own. It seems that whenever I see someone with
> > > that particular pannier set, they are carrying far more than I would.
>
> > > As for training, go with your body. Ride as much as possible, but not
> > > to the point of pain. The ACA folks are used to dealing with middle-
> > > aged folks who aren't super athletes - you'll do fine if you just ride
> > > as much as possible. In prepping for a tour, I seldom have the time to
> > > ride as much as I'd like, so I substitute fast commuting with the
> > > occasional long, slow ride to add mileage and time in the saddle.
> > > Funny, I've never, ever trained with my panniers on before any tour -
> > > that seems like a good idea, but my butt is always the limiting factor
> > > at the beginning of a tour, not my endurance.
>
> > > Dave
> > > (also 51)
>
> > > On Feb 24, 3:22 pm, Rene Sterental  wrote:
> > >> I have signed up with the Adventure Cycling Association to do their
> > >> Introduction to Bike Touring course in May in Eugene, OR.
> >http://www.adventurecycling.org/tours/tourdetail.cfm?t=EDU11&id=249&p=1
>
> > >> I am going to do it on my Atlantis, so it's Riv related, and thought
> > that
> > >> there might perhaps be some other people in this group who would be
> > >> interested in joining. Not that you can't just do it on your own, but I
> > >> figured it would be worth for me to get some formal education/training
> > and
> > >> support to

[RBW] Atlantis color?

[doug peterson]

Has anyone ever had something painted to match their Atlantis?  I'm
talking to a guy (not local to me) about painting some parts to match
the standard color.  He says if he has a Dupont automotive paint
number he can do it.  The Testor's modeling paint is OK for touch up
but not close enough for a large area.  So if anyone has solved this
problem already I'm interested in hearing from you.

dougP

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[RBW] Re: waxing chains--how hot the wax?

[doug peterson]

It is kinda amazing how much thought, effort & discussion occurs on
the subject of maintaining what is for most of us a relatively low
cost (I've heard of $100 chains but never known one), expendable
part.  Tinker away, my friends.

doug "waxing poetic" P

On Feb 22, 10:46 am, Benedikt  wrote:
> I gotta go with you on this, omnigrid.  I think people get to
> "mystical" about chain lube.  As a side note I was amazed to see the
> rusty covered squeaky creaky chains people had on their daily riders
> when I went down to Cozumel, Mex.
>
> On Feb 22, 8:23 am, omnigrid  wrote:
>
>
>
> > you guys sure go through alot of trouble lubing your chains.
>
> > I hit each link with a drop of boshield after riding in wet conditions or
> > when the chain makes any sound, let it sit overnight or a few hours, and
> > then wipe off. no problems. easy.
>
> > On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 9:58 AM, jim phillips 
> > wrote:
>
> > >  Why would moisture haver an effect on wax. I wax guns and knives to keep
> > > them from rusting due to the high humidity here...
>
> > > JimP
>
> > > --
> > > Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 07:22:02 -0800
> > > Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: waxing chains--how hot the wax?
> > > From: cyclotour...@gmail.com
> > > To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
>
> > > I use a "Fry Baby" deep fryer.  I don't know what temp it heats to.  FYI,
> > > the wax is useless with the slightest bit of moisture.  Not a problem for 
> > > me
> > > in the summer as it performs wonderfully in dry and dusty conditions.
>
> > > On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 6:35 AM, Peter Pesce  wrote:
>
> > > Check out EcoVelo - Alan has several posts on the how-to's and why-
> > > to's of waxing.
>
> > > -Pete
>
> > > On Feb 22, 4:45 am, Earl Grey  wrote:
> > >  > Surprised I didn't find the definitive answer in the archives, or a
> > > > riv reader for that matter.
>
> > > > The 1992 Bridgestone catalogue mentions using a double boiler, thus
> > > > 212 Fahrenheit max.
>
> > > > Riv Reader Vol 1 Issue 1 says Grant uses a 400 F bath, and says the
> > > > flash point is 425 F. Also says don't do this at home (liability
> > > > reasons, one assumes).
>
> > > > So, what do the extra 188 F get you? Lower viscosity and better
> > > > penetration? Has anyone found this to matter, or has anyone the
> > > > necessary scientific background to theorize upon the topic?
>
> > > > Winter here is bone dry season, so it seems like the time to finally
> > > > try wax after 20 years of cycling.
>
> > > > Cheers,
>
> > > > Gernot
>
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > > "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> > > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> > > For more options, visit this group at
> > >http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>
> > > --
> > > Cheers,
> > > David
> > > Redlands, CA
>
> > > *...in terms of recreational cycling there are many riders who would
> > > probably benefit more from
> > > improving their taste than from improving their performance.* - RTMS
>
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > > "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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> > > For more options, visit this group at
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>
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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> > > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> > > For more options, visit this group at
> > >http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: waxing chains--how hot the wax?

[doug peterson]

I never measured the temp but the wax is thin enough to drip off the
chain when I lift it out.  For years I used a coffee can (wax & chain)
sitting in a saucepan of water, only letting the water get to a gentle
boil.  My wife picked up a small fondue pot so I could move the
operation into the garage.  Wipe down the chain, hook the ends with a
couple of re-purposed paper clips for easy retrieval, & drop into the
pot.  Turn on high & go about my garage tinkering.  It may take 20-30
minutes for the wax to melt & get hot, not sure, never timed it.  I
suppose the chain sits there for half hour or more.  Remove, hang from
a hook over an old newspaper, wipe down to removed excess wax & let
cool for a few minutes.  That's as scientific as I've gotten so it
seems the recipe isn't critical.

dougP

On Feb 22, 1:45 am, Earl Grey  wrote:
> Surprised I didn't find the definitive answer in the archives, or a
> riv reader for that matter.
>
> The 1992 Bridgestone catalogue mentions using a double boiler, thus
> 212 Fahrenheit max.
>
> Riv Reader Vol 1 Issue 1 says Grant uses a 400 F bath, and says the
> flash point is 425 F. Also says don't do this at home (liability
> reasons, one assumes).
>
> So, what do the extra 188 F get you? Lower viscosity and better
> penetration? Has anyone found this to matter, or has anyone the
> necessary scientific background to theorize upon the topic?
>
> Winter here is bone dry season, so it seems like the time to finally
> try wax after 20 years of cycling.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Gernot

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[RBW] Re: Stem Mounted Shifters?

[doug peterson]

Jenny:

Thanks for the photos & info.  Whoduh thunk those old Suntour stem
shifters would ever get respect?  Must be the Silver levers that make
your set-up look so good.  I gotta think about this one; been using
bar ends for at least 20 years & still poke myself and hit the lever
sometimes, and have never liked the look of the cable housings looping
around the front.

dougP

On Feb 20, 9:10 pm, Jenny  wrote:
> Doug,
>
> My stem shifter solution:
>
> Took a set of old Suntour stem shifters and replaced the shifting
> levers with the Rivendell Silver Shifters.  I had to file/apply
> sandpaper to the posts on the Suntour shifter mounts a hair in order
> to get the Rivendell shifters to fit.
>
> Photos of my Franken-shifter 
> set:http://www.flickr.com/photos/56986077@N06/sets/72157625974204537/
>
> Don't know the model number, but here's an example of the Suntour stem
> shifter mount/clamp I 
> used:http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Road-Bike-Suntour-10-Speed-Fingertip-Shif...
>
> It works great for me because I like to ride with my hands on the
> tops.
>
> Jenny
>
> On Feb 19, 10:49 pm, doug peterson  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Thomas:
>
> > Please post if you find something.  I checked my Arabesques & the
> > clamp is way bigger than the stem.  It would need a thick shim to work
> > & I'd probably start with a couple of tire boots or something equally
> > ugly.
>
> > Whatever's on Jenny's Homer is clean looking & fits the look of the
> > bike.
>
> > dougP
>
> > On Feb 19, 6:27 pm, Thomas Lynn Skean 
> > wrote:
>
> > > Yes, decisions such as this one require considerable contemplation,
> > > research, analysis, soul-searching, and, certainly not least,
> > > consultation.
>
> > > You can't just jump into these things. Who knows what would happen?
>
> > > :)
>
> > > Yours,
> > > Thomas Lynn Skean
> > > P.S. I thought I saw on the web  some stem-mounted clamp that could be
> > > used to hold modern downtube shifters. I'll look around and post back
> > > if I find it again. Good thing there's no rush!
>
> > > On Feb 19, 5:15 pm, Angus  wrote:
>
> > > > Stem mounted shifters are increasingly appealing to me...in a few
> > > > years it may cause me to act.
>
> > > > Angus
>
> > > > On Feb 17, 10:28 am, jsk  wrote:
>
> > > > > Hi all,
>
> > > > > Just wondering if anyone knows of a manufacturer making modern, well
> > > > > built stem mounted shifters anymore (or ever)? You know, like the type
> > > > > that used come standard on Schwinn Collegiate bikes and the like?
>
> > > > > I mean, considering the devotion to upright bars here ...- Hide 
> > > > > quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Stem Mounted Shifters?

[doug peterson]

Thomas:

Please post if you find something.  I checked my Arabesques & the
clamp is way bigger than the stem.  It would need a thick shim to work
& I'd probably start with a couple of tire boots or something equally
ugly.

Whatever's on Jenny's Homer is clean looking & fits the look of the
bike.

dougP

On Feb 19, 6:27 pm, Thomas Lynn Skean 
wrote:
> Yes, decisions such as this one require considerable contemplation,
> research, analysis, soul-searching, and, certainly not least,
> consultation.
>
> You can't just jump into these things. Who knows what would happen?
>
> :)
>
> Yours,
> Thomas Lynn Skean
> P.S. I thought I saw on the web  some stem-mounted clamp that could be
> used to hold modern downtube shifters. I'll look around and post back
> if I find it again. Good thing there's no rush!
>
> On Feb 19, 5:15 pm, Angus  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Stem mounted shifters are increasingly appealing to me...in a few
> > years it may cause me to act.
>
> > Angus
>
> > On Feb 17, 10:28 am, jsk  wrote:
>
> > > Hi all,
>
> > > Just wondering if anyone knows of a manufacturer making modern, well
> > > built stem mounted shifters anymore (or ever)? You know, like the type
> > > that used come standard on Schwinn Collegiate bikes and the like?
>
> > > I mean, considering the devotion to upright bars here ...- Hide quoted 
> > > text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Stem Mounted Shifters?

[doug peterson]

Veloman:

Now you've done it.  I bought a nearly complete Arabesque group from a
guy a couple of years ago for a project that didn't happen, and among
the goodies was just such a set.  Now I've got to find them &
contemplate installing them on the Atlantis.  It's that time of year
for a bit of tinkering and this is an intriguing idea.  I need to
install cable splitters anyway.

dougP

On Feb 17, 8:57 pm, velomann  wrote:
> Oh my gosh - do you happen to have access to a used bike shop or
> cycling co-op kind of place? There must be a half dozen places here in
> Portland that have, like, boxes - literally - of Shimano and Suntour
> stem-mount shifters. I doubt you're likely to find anything better
> than those old classics. If you can find an old set of the Shimano 600
> "Arabesque" stem mount shifters, you'll think you died and went to
> stem shifter heaven!
>
> On Feb 17, 8:28 am, jsk  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi all,
>
> > Just wondering if anyone knows of a manufacturer making modern, well
> > built stem mounted shifters anymore (or ever)? You know, like the type
> > that used come standard on Schwinn Collegiate bikes and the like?
>
> > I mean, considering the devotion to upright bars here ...- Hide quoted text 
> > -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Stem Mounted Shifters?

[doug peterson]

If Jenny from Point Loma sees this maybe she'll chime in.  She has
them on her Homer & they look good.  I haven't gotten a close look but
they look better than the ones common back in the 70s/80s.  It's a
clean look that elminates all the clutter of the bar ends I've been
using forever.  Definitely worth consideration.

dougP

On Feb 17, 12:42 pm, William  wrote:
> The coolest things I've seen is custom steel stems with downtube
> bosses brazed onto the stem.  Ahearne in particular features them
> often.
>
> On Feb 17, 11:21 am, Peter Pesce  wrote:
>
>
>
> > I was trying to find something like this a while back, with no luck. I
> > even asked Chris at VO if they would consider producing some kind of
> > stem mount for the silver shifters. He said they had considered it,
> > but it was way down the list of things they are planning to do.
>
> > Best bet would be to find an old stem shift clamp that uses the same
> > bosses as the current production silvers.
>
> > I've even thought about trying to retrofit downtubes to my Sam,
> > without brazing bosses on. Nothing exists for a 31.8mm downtube,
> > though, and I don't have the skills/tools to fabricate anything that
> > would look decent.
>
> > -Pete
>
> > On Feb 17, 11:28 am, jsk  wrote:
>
> > > Hi all,
>
> > > Just wondering if anyone knows of a manufacturer making modern, well
> > > built stem mounted shifters anymore (or ever)? You know, like the type
> > > that used come standard on Schwinn Collegiate bikes and the like?
>
> > > I mean, considering the devotion to upright bars here ...- Hide quoted 
> > > text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: Everything's Perfect....I'ma touchin NOTHIN!

[doug peterson]

Angus:

I dunno; maybe try to re-visit this state of bliss in a week or so &
report back.  Sounds un-natural.

My Atlantis will shortly have it's 8th birthday & I'm still
tinkering.  Going to try Silver bar ends (been using Suntour Bar Cons
forever) & chubby Tektro brake levers.  Still moving toward ever wider
tires, 40s are next up.  There will always be something.  Racks'n'bags
alone can occupy me for countless hours.

dougP

On Feb 17, 5:05 pm, Angus  wrote:
> My name is Angus and I am a "tinkerer."
>
> I can't leave well enough alone.
>
> I'm constantly trying to make everything better (although it doesn't
> always work out that way).
>
> Nothing is perfect...everything always needs improving.
>
> Many people may think this is sad...but I've come to accept it.  I'm
> kinda happy with it actually.
>
> Last weekend I took the 13 year old All-Rounder for a ride (the
> Albatross bar equipped All-Rounder is my "stiff back bike")
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/16951387@N08/4739416729/
>
> Something clicked...everything worked well: brakes, shifting,
> handling...everything.  I realized I haven't had to fiddle with
> anything on this bike in months; nothing felt funny, shifters seemed
> happy with the derailleurs, brakes were easy to use, modulated well,
> didn't squeal and stayed centered, position was great, nothing made
> funny noises
>
> WHOA!  This hasn't happened before.
>
> Everything's Perfect...I'ma touching NOTHIN!
>
> Angus "Who dreams of one day getting his other bicycles to this level
> of zen like harmony"

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[RBW] Re: A couple of mech questions: chainsuck and a noisy BB

[doug peterson]

> Doug: I'm getting it mostly on the granny ring, sometimes on the
> middle, with the rear derailer on the smaller cogs. Almost exclusively
> on dirty, so probably fairly bumpy.

Granny on the smaller cogs means not much tension on the chain.  Shift
to the granny & big cog, and note where the RD cage is and feel the
chain tension.  Then shift out to a small cog & you'll see the cage
swing way back to take up the slack.  Feel the chain tension.  It will
be a lot less.  Then try the same observation in the middle & big
rings.  On the big you may want to forgo using the largest 2 cogs as
the chain tension gets high and the angle kinda extreme.

IME the combinations of the granny & the 3 or 4 largest cogs is fairly
reliable.  By the time you're out to the middle of cluster, it's time
to shift to the middle.  In the middle ring you should be able to use
all the cogs reliably.  What I've found (the hard way, of course) is
I'd climb a steep hill on the granny & big cog, go over the top, shift
up a few cogs for the downhill, bounce around a bit & the chain would
either fall off to the inside or get sucked up against the stay.  A
more experienced rider suggested shifting to the middle ring once over
the top so as to put some tension on the chain for the bouncy
downhill.

dougP


On Feb 17, 6:25 am, Paul Yeoh  wrote:
> Thanks again to everyone for your replies.
>
> Doug: I'm getting it mostly on the granny ring, sometimes on the
> middle, with the rear derailer on the smaller cogs. Almost exclusively
> on dirty, so probably fairly bumpy.
>
> Cyclofiend: Hmm... its hard to say. I will have to get some opinions
> from Gernot and Kip when I see them.
>
> Michael: The XD2 is totally stock.
>
> Thomas: Yes, I emailed Keven about the different spindle sizes and he
> replied to say the site was out of date with regards to that little
> fact. Thanks for sharing your configuration info.

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[RBW] Re: A couple of mech questions: chainsuck and a noisy BB

[doug peterson]

+1 for Thomas observations.  I think the BB question has been sorted
out on this forum & somewhere here there's a chart of models and sizes
that may be more accurate than the guidance on the Riv site.  Some
issues seem to have too many combinations to say for sure what works &
what won't.  Isn't trial & error how some of us managed to develop
parts collections?

OTH, Paul's bike is nearly new & really should be working properly
with the build combo Riv installed.  But hey, that's what we're here
for, right?

dougP

On Feb 16, 1:43 pm, Thomas Lynn Skean 
wrote:
> On Feb 16, 4:35 am, Paul Yeoh  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Gernot: How interesting.. I just checked my Riv invoice and it lists a
> > 107mm Tange Super BB. Not that I know what that means, but it reads on
> > Riv's site that all Riv bikes should use 113 mm except the Atlantis
> > that uses 107 mm.
> > Whether I really have a 107 or that's just what it says on the receipt
> > - I don't know. How do I find out? And would it matter?
>
> RBW is a great institution, a wonderful collection of people, and has
> inspired this marvelous group.
>
> The RBW web-site, while generally informative, extremely interesting,
> highly recommended and overall very enjoyable reading, is *not* using
> best-of-breed content-maintenance technology or practices. :)
>
> For example... I think the web-site's statement on BB size may
> actually predate the *existence* of all the current RBW frame
> offerings *except* the Atlantis. And I know the Atlantis itself has
> changed a bunch over that time. Now, they *may* have gone to some
> trouble to make sure that every Atlantis variant (and every other
> frame design) complied with that statement on the web-site (I'm being
> silly!). But I wouldn't count on it.
>
> Definitely read the web-site with a grain of "subject to change or
> have changed without notice" when it comes to little tidbits of
> detail, however technical they are or important they might be in a
> given situation. If it really matters, ask, measure, and/or test.
>
> I of course am glad (or at least hope) they don't spend hours or even
> too many minutes worrying about this sort of thing. It means the web-
> site doesn't read like a technical manual. It means the bikes don't
> get held up in as many bureaucratic processes. It means they can have
> longer meaningful conversations on the phone and in e-mail about
> helping customers choose a frame, components, and/or accessories.
>
> Oh, and... just in case you missed it... a custom frameset is now
> $3,500. Not $3,000, as indicated on the "Bicycle Models" page (as of
> this moment, anyway).
>
> RBW, don't change a thing. Unless the change'll keep you from getting
> sued, fined, or imprisoned!
>
> Yours,
> Thomas Lynn Skean

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[RBW] Re: A couple of mech questions: chainsuck and a noisy BB

[doug peterson]

Paul:

I'm not betting on the spindle length.  IME it's not critical.  My
Atlantis came with a 116, which I replaced with a 110 when the
original died.  The Atlantis chainstays really stick out there, and
the 110 leaves only about 2 mm gap between the middle ring & the
chainstay.  So you should be OK with a 107 on your bike.

The FD shouldn't matter.  I think a lot of labeling stuff "9speed" or
"10speed" is marketing.

Sounds like the big difference between your bike & Gernot's is he's
got all 9 speed & you've got a mix.  Check out Sheldon's website for
the details but there may be a difference in chainring thickness
between 6/7/8 and 9 speed.  Cogs are thinner on higher count cogsets.

Under what conditions do you experience chainsuck?  Big ring to
middle, granny, rear shifts?  Bumpy conditions?  Does the chain get
hung up between 2 rings?

dougP

On Feb 16, 2:35 am, Paul Yeoh  wrote:
> James: Thanks for that info!
>
> Gernot: How interesting.. I just checked my Riv invoice and it lists a
> 107mm Tange Super BB. Not that I know what that means, but it reads on
> Riv's site that all Riv bikes should use 113 mm except the Atlantis
> that uses 107 mm.
> Whether I really have a 107 or that's just what it says on the receipt
> - I don't know. How do I find out? And would it matter?
>
> On Feb 16, 1:30 pm, Earl Grey  wrote:
>
>
>
> > I have the same size Hillborne (but earlier Taiwan version) with the
> > same crank (Sugino XD-2), same chain (SRAM 9 speed), older generation
> > but NOS low normal XT derailer (but different front derailer, though I
> > can't see how that would matter), and have no issues with chain suck
> > (okay, 2 or 3 instances in 1.5 yrs, probably with dirty chain). I also
> > run a 9 sp Shimano cassette on a 9 sp Shimano hub, versus Paul's 7 sp
> > Shimano freewheel on Phil hub, but can't see how that would matter.
>
> > How about BB spindle length? It's a long shot, but if the spindle is
> > too long, I could see that contributing.
>
> > Gernot
>
> > On Feb 16, 7:19 am, doug peterson  wrote:
>
> > > Paul:
>
> > > > Matt: Yes, perhaps I should try an 8spd chain. They have bigger spaces
> > > > than 9 spd don't they?
>
> > > Check out the Harris / Sheldon website for general chain info but IIRC
> > > 9 speed is narrower.  I always buy ones marked "6/7/8" speed for my 8
> > > speed.  I generally buy whatever is on sale for around $20 & get
> > > several.  Here in SoCal using wax for lube I get a year out of a
> > > chain.  It's about as chain friendly an environment as possible (dry,
> > > the whole place is paved over).
>
> > > You mention chain suck when climbing; that's odd.  Maybe climbing in
> > > the granny & middle of the cluster, with not much chain tension?  Hit
> > > a bump or something?  Just a thought.
>
> > > If chains are that pricey, have Kip pick up a batch when he's here
> > > next time.  That doesn't do you any good today but for future.  If Kip
> > > & Gernot have no problems & you're the only 9 speed user, that could
> > > be a clue.
>
> > > dougP
>
> > > On Feb 15, 2:52 am, Paul Yeoh  wrote:
>
> > > > Thanks for all your replies.
>
> > > > Seth: Just checked, its not the rails.
>
> > > > Patrick: Think I read on EcoVelo to use that paraffin/beeswax ratio.
> > > > It worked really well when the chain was still clean, chain ran more
> > > > silent than when new.
>
> > > > Matt: Yes, perhaps I should try an 8spd chain. They have bigger spaces
> > > > than 9 spd don't they? I think Wipperman's are available here, but for
> > > > a hefty price (like 1500 thb - 48 USD). I have been a veg oil user
> > > > myself on my other bikes, it was great when I lived in wetter
> > > > Singapore. The Riv was the first bike to get chronic chain suck and so
> > > > I thought I'd try wax since the climate is dry and super dusty this
> > > > time of year in Thailand.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: SoCal Riv Ride - Feb 12 in SD

[doug peterson]

Mike:

 I was too busy trying to
> hang on to Dustin on that section so I didn't take many pictures.

Hanging with Dustin is an exercise in futility.  But as long as
somebody wants to try, give it a go.

dougP

On Feb 15, 7:18 am, Michael_S  wrote:
> April will be warmer and depending on the weather maybe too hot.  The
> 3rd dirt section was the best in my opinion. I was too busy trying to
> hang on to Dustin on that section so I didn't take many pictures.  I
> think those sections would be best with a 35mm cross tire or a Hetre.
> Of course the final road sections were perfect for the Jack Browns.
>
> ~Mike
>
> On Feb 15, 4:47 am, jim phillips  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Beautiful terrain and beautiful bikes!!
>
> > JimP
>
> > Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 20:33:10 -0800
> > Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: SoCal Riv Ride - Feb 12 in SD
> > From: cyclotour...@gmail.com
> > To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
>
> > Hi John, it's a great route I would encourage you to take. Just be aware of 
> > the singletrack you're going to need to take at mile 20.6.  It's not marked 
> > at all, so you have to be on the look out for it.  That's where the 
> > hike-a-bike section begins.  That's just for ~half a mile though.  
> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/5441062476/
>
> > On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 8:08 PM, doug peterson  wrote:
>
> > John:
>
> > That would be it.  Mile 29.4 is where David, Jenny & I bailed out.  We
> > took the left while the rest of the group continued on the route.  You
> > can see how that connects to the outbound route around 15.  We then
> > headed back up course & made a left at the intersection that's 12.7
> > outbound & 44.7 returning. We got a total of 42 for the shorter
> > version.
>
> > Carry plenty of food & water.  Take a look at the posted photos.  We
> > had some high quality hike-a-bike sections.  Caution:  Hills may be
> > steeper than they apperar in photos!  Great ride.
>
> > When do you plan to be in San Diego?  I'm a bit north, Orange County,
> > but get down there often.  Maybe we could do this ride; I'm curious
> > about the part I missed.
>
> > dougP
>
> > On Feb 14, 7:47 pm, John Speare  wrote:
>
> > > Can someone who went on the ride verify that this is the map for the 
> > > route:http://ridewithgps.com/routes/252276
>
> > > I'll be in SD in April and this sounds like a perfect day ride.
>
> > > On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 7:35 AM, Esteban  wrote:
> > > > I have some photos up from my camera phone - and a write-up on the
> > > > blog:
>
> > > >http://veloflaneur.wordpress.com/2011/02/14/all-tires-welcome/
>
> > > >http://www.flickr.com/photos/25671211@N02/sets/72157625919265243/
>
> > > > The route is worth studying for anyone planning a vacation in San
> > > > Diego. Wow!  Thanks, Dustin!
>
> > > > Esteban
> > > > San Diego, Calif.
>
> > > > On Feb 13, 7:55 pm, doug peterson  wrote:
> > > > > Some of the most interesting "roads" aren't paved.  And we saw some
> > > > > pretty interesting stuff yesterday!
>
> > > > > You're correct David; your tire was just low, not flat.
>
> > > > > dougP
>
> > > > > On Feb 13, 5:53 pm, cyclotourist  wrote:
>
> > > > > > That's my favorite response!!!
>
> > > > > > On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 3:39 PM, Michael_S 
> > > > > >  > > > >wrote:
>
> > > > > > > I was a little worried in riding the rock gardens on the 2nd half 
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > the ride on the Jack Brown greensDustin led us on on some 
> > > > > > > pretty
> > > > > > > rough stuff... but I escaped with nary a scratch.   Some hiker we
> > > > > > > passed was pretty amazed we were on that trail on "road" bikes.
>
> > > > > > > ~Mike
>
> > > > > > > On Feb 13, 1:45 pm, cyclotourist  wrote:
> > > > > > > > How 'bout "Zero flat repairs"?  Slow leaks that had to be topped
> > > > off
> > > > > > > don't
> > > > > > > > count!  :-)
>
> > > > > > > > On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 1:16 PM, doug peterson 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > &g

[RBW] Re: A couple of mech questions: chainsuck and a noisy BB

[doug peterson]

Paul:

> Matt: Yes, perhaps I should try an 8spd chain. They have bigger spaces
> than 9 spd don't they?

Check out the Harris / Sheldon website for general chain info but IIRC
9 speed is narrower.  I always buy ones marked "6/7/8" speed for my 8
speed.  I generally buy whatever is on sale for around $20 & get
several.  Here in SoCal using wax for lube I get a year out of a
chain.  It's about as chain friendly an environment as possible (dry,
the whole place is paved over).

You mention chain suck when climbing; that's odd.  Maybe climbing in
the granny & middle of the cluster, with not much chain tension?  Hit
a bump or something?  Just a thought.

If chains are that pricey, have Kip pick up a batch when he's here
next time.  That doesn't do you any good today but for future.  If Kip
& Gernot have no problems & you're the only 9 speed user, that could
be a clue.

dougP

On Feb 15, 2:52 am, Paul Yeoh  wrote:
> Thanks for all your replies.
>
> Seth: Just checked, its not the rails.
>
> Patrick: Think I read on EcoVelo to use that paraffin/beeswax ratio.
> It worked really well when the chain was still clean, chain ran more
> silent than when new.
>
> Matt: Yes, perhaps I should try an 8spd chain. They have bigger spaces
> than 9 spd don't they? I think Wipperman's are available here, but for
> a hefty price (like 1500 thb - 48 USD). I have been a veg oil user
> myself on my other bikes, it was great when I lived in wetter
> Singapore. The Riv was the first bike to get chronic chain suck and so
> I thought I'd try wax since the climate is dry and super dusty this
> time of year in Thailand.

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[RBW] Re: Computers? No computers?

[doug peterson]

I generally don't bother.  They are handy on tours in unknown areas
for keeping track of distance.  I lost the receiving unit a couple of
years ago on Day 1 of a 2 week tour, didn't miss it much & haven't
replaced it.  Here in the US most places have decent milepost systems
& the rest of the world favors big kilometer blocks on major roads.  A
computer is handy on un-marked & secondary roads.  I think it's a
comfort factor more than a real necessity.

dougP

On Feb 15, 7:44 am, PATRICK MOORE  wrote:
> How many of y'all have computers on your bikes? The Avocet 35 on my
> gofast failed after many years and I am very tempted not to replace
> it. But weaning myself from the numbers is surprisingly hard,
> particularly mileage numbers.
>
> What do y'all do? Do you use computers? Just a watch to time yourself?
> Just ride and say the heck with it?
>
> Note: I'll still like going fast; I'm just not the rambling type. But
> I can ride hard even without the computer.
>
> --
> Patrick Moore
> Albuquerque, NM
> For professional resumes, contact
> Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumespecialt...@gmail.com

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