[RBW] Re: 50 t rear cog -- Never walk another hill

['Mojo' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Mike, I am on a 2x9 setup with a new fangled clutched rear derailer, 12-36T 
cassette. I have used both 23/36 and 26/39 up front.

Joe in GJT

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[RBW] Re: 50 t rear cog -- Never walk another hill

[Mike Shaljian]

Ugh, apologies for posting what was intended to be a PM here. No matter what 
browser I use, it is always difficult to find the "reply to author" button. 

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[RBW] Re: 50 t rear cog -- Never walk another hill

[Mike Shaljian]

Hi Joe,

I was curious to know, are you using a 10-speed drivetrain on your Jones 
Plus? If so, are you also using a clutch derailleur? I'm wondering if some 
of the problems I've had are a result of stubbornly hanging onto a 9-speed 
drivetrain, as I know the Surly OD chainrings are designed for 10-speed but 
will work with 9-speed. I'm still determined to switch to 1X, but it would 
be interesting to know if chain width could be a factor in the issues I've 
had. 

Best,

Mike 

On Friday, March 25, 2016 at 9:29:43 PM UTC-7, Mojo wrote:
>
> Mike, I have been using a Surly OD (offset double) crank on my Jones Plus 
> with a Deore front derailer. It has been completely flawless. Same set up 
> same bike for a friend, same flawless result. Maybe we can save your 
> current setup? 
>
> PM me if you would like.
> Joe in GJT
>

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[RBW] Re: 50 t rear cog -- Never walk another hill

[Ron Mc]

Here's the gearing on the Sram cassette 10-12-14-16-18-21-24-28-32-36-42-50 
Unless you have a Really Small single  chainring, the steps would make this 
single-ring drivetrain less than versatile.  
Here's a mechanically simpler and more versatile compact double that for 
all practical purposes functions like a 1x drivetrain  (ok, functions like 
two 1x drivetrains)
http://home.earthlink.net/~mike.sherman/shift.html?R0=25=42=999=12=13=14=15=16=18=21=24=29=999=999=0=8=170=1=0=90=0=80=100=show=yes==1

On Friday, March 25, 2016 at 12:32:22 PM UTC-5, BSWP wrote:
>
> Makes the Rohloff IGH all the more attractive, in my opinion.
>
> - Andrew, Berkeley
>

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[RBW] Re: 50 t rear cog -- Never walk another hill

[Mike Shaljian]

Yep, I've also got the OD crank. I'm glad to hear you've gotten it to work, but 
my LBS has not been able to tame it. Aside from that, I really do hate having 
to use an FD on the trail and I get the sense that the simplified shifting will 
push me to improve my climbing ability instead of giving up and walking after a 
missed shift. I'm also having problems with chain rub on the tire when in the 
small chainring, largest sprocket combo. I don't doubt that it can be done, but 
I'm not trying to win this fight anymore.

 I bet the boost (148mm rear) spacing on the new Jones Plus will solve all 
these dilemmas, such is the cost of being an early adopter. 

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[RBW] Re: 50 t rear cog -- Never walk another hill

['Mojo' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Mike, I have been using a Surly OD (offset double) crank on my Jones Plus with 
a Deore front derailer. It has been completely flawless. Same set up same bike 
for a friend, same flawless result. Maybe we can save your current setup? 

PM me if you would like.
Joe in GJT

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[RBW] Re: 50 t rear cog -- Never walk another hill

[Mike Shaljian]

Forgot to mention, this is the cassette  
I'll be using, the new Sunrace 11-42 10-speed cassette. They sold out 
seemingly everywhere in 2 weeks according to my LBS, out of stock until 
late May. 

On Friday, March 25, 2016 at 8:36:46 PM UTC-7, Mike Shaljian wrote:
>
> I just decided to convert my Jones Plus to 1X10 after a year of 
> frustration trying to make a double chainring setup work (constant 
> chainsuck/chaindrop). On my 3" tire setup I will have a gear range of 22.8 
> - 87 gear inches, whereas my earlier setup (39/26 chainrings and 11-34 
> cassette) gave a range of 22.9 - 106 gear inches. The 106 gear was crazy 
> tall for my Plus setup (also have a road wheelset), so I mostly topped out 
> in the 39-13 anyhow (89 gear inches). With this setup, I'm only losing 3% 
> off my typical high gear and my low end is identical. 
>
>  
>
> Having been a former Quickbeam rider, I still have a yearning for more 
> simplicity and not doing math while I'm riding trying to figure out gear 
> overlap or avoiding wicked cross-chaining is really appealing. I am also 
> really, really terrible at shifting the front chainring on singletrack and 
> generally just settle for being undergeared in my small ring, now I'll have 
> a continuous, non-overlapping gear range. I am really looking forward to 
> dispensing with the kludge and unreliability of a front derailleur, and I'm 
> not losing much for it. So I’ll take the dorky pie plate granny gear any 
> day! While I love going fast and had to rigorously work the Sheldon Gear 
> calculator to make sure I wasn't losing too much "go fast" on the top end, 
> I'd much prefer the elegance of a simpler and more reliable system and spin 
> faster on the flats and rest on downhills (love the Jan Heine tuck and 
> coast approach!). 
>
>  
>
> Included is a plot comparing the two systems. The 1X10 is in the middle, 
> between my current 39/26 setup. 
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 12:36:53 PM UTC-7, iamkeith wrote:
>>
>> I just saw that too.   I know this wasn't the point of your posting, but 
>> I've never figured out why so many people on this board think these large 
>> cogs are so ridiculous.   I completely understand the goal of eliminating a 
>> front derailleur and, in my opinion,  this is just now finally... and just 
>> barely... getting to the point where a 1x drivetrain could be feasible and 
>> realistic.  Admittedly, it  really only works for mountainous trail riding, 
>> even then.  I'm assuming you'd use a single front ring around 30 or 32 
>> teeth, to still have a decent granny gear, so you wouldn't have the tall 
>> gears needed for road riding, and the steps between the middle cogs would 
>> probably be too big too.  
>>
>> You just have to think outside of the road bike and flattish, paved 
>> areas, to the places where I live and ride.
>>
>> The things that I think funny are 2x drivetrains.If you're going to 
>> need a derailleur and shifter anyway,  you might as well add that third 
>> ring and give yourself all the range you can use.
>>
>> On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 12:47:56 PM UTC-6, Jim M. wrote:
>>>
>>> It's not April Fool's day, so it must be real:
>>>
>>> http://www.pinkbike.com/news/oneup-shark-50t-sprocket-kit-review.html
>>>
>>>
>>> jim m
>>> wc ca
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: 50 t rear cog -- Never walk another hill

[Mike Shaljian]

I just decided to convert my Jones Plus to 1X10 after a year of frustration 
trying to make a double chainring setup work (constant 
chainsuck/chaindrop). On my 3" tire setup I will have a gear range of 22.8 
- 87 gear inches, whereas my earlier setup (39/26 chainrings and 11-34 
cassette) gave a range of 22.9 - 106 gear inches. The 106 gear was crazy 
tall for my Plus setup (also have a road wheelset), so I mostly topped out 
in the 39-13 anyhow (89 gear inches). With this setup, I'm only losing 3% 
off my typical high gear and my low end is identical. 

 

Having been a former Quickbeam rider, I still have a yearning for more 
simplicity and not doing math while I'm riding trying to figure out gear 
overlap or avoiding wicked cross-chaining is really appealing. I am also 
really, really terrible at shifting the front chainring on singletrack and 
generally just settle for being undergeared in my small ring, now I'll have 
a continuous, non-overlapping gear range. I am really looking forward to 
dispensing with the kludge and unreliability of a front derailleur, and I'm 
not losing much for it. So I’ll take the dorky pie plate granny gear any 
day! While I love going fast and had to rigorously work the Sheldon Gear 
calculator to make sure I wasn't losing too much "go fast" on the top end, 
I'd much prefer the elegance of a simpler and more reliable system and spin 
faster on the flats and rest on downhills (love the Jan Heine tuck and 
coast approach!). 

 

Included is a plot comparing the two systems. The 1X10 is in the middle, 
between my current 39/26 setup. 






On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 12:36:53 PM UTC-7, iamkeith wrote:
>
> I just saw that too.   I know this wasn't the point of your posting, but 
> I've never figured out why so many people on this board think these large 
> cogs are so ridiculous.   I completely understand the goal of eliminating a 
> front derailleur and, in my opinion,  this is just now finally... and just 
> barely... getting to the point where a 1x drivetrain could be feasible and 
> realistic.  Admittedly, it  really only works for mountainous trail riding, 
> even then.  I'm assuming you'd use a single front ring around 30 or 32 
> teeth, to still have a decent granny gear, so you wouldn't have the tall 
> gears needed for road riding, and the steps between the middle cogs would 
> probably be too big too.  
>
> You just have to think outside of the road bike and flattish, paved areas, 
> to the places where I live and ride.
>
> The things that I think funny are 2x drivetrains.If you're going to 
> need a derailleur and shifter anyway,  you might as well add that third 
> ring and give yourself all the range you can use.
>
> On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 12:47:56 PM UTC-6, Jim M. wrote:
>>
>> It's not April Fool's day, so it must be real:
>>
>> http://www.pinkbike.com/news/oneup-shark-50t-sprocket-kit-review.html
>>
>>
>> jim m
>> wc ca
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: 50 t rear cog -- Never walk another hill

['Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I don't ever want to go back to multiple chainrings and although I would 
still prefer a Rohloff, this 50t system doesn't look too bad. 



On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 1:47:56 PM UTC-5, Jim M. wrote:
>
> It's not April Fool's day, so it must be real:
>
> http://www.pinkbike.com/news/oneup-shark-50t-sprocket-kit-review.html
>
>
> jim m
> wc ca
>

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[RBW] Re: 50 t rear cog -- Never walk another hill

[Garth]

Sram in on the madness too  . . . ..  
http://www.pinkbike.com/news/sram-eagle-12-speed-drivetrain-first-ride-2016.html

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[RBW] Re: 50 t rear cog -- Never walk another hill

[dstein]

iamkeith - I think its just the price and 'lock in' that are the big 
drawbacks. Same reason a lot of people here choose friction bar end 
shifters rather than a brifter set up. For simplicity sake its nice to be 
able to build a bike out of a parts bin or swap out different components 
without having to worry about them having to match to a specific make/model 
(of course there is some matching you have to do with different speed 
cassettes, shifters, derailleurs, and cranks, but there is a lot more 
flexibility). Choosing all silver components for our fancy steel lugged 
bikes is also something hard to come by with the latest and greatest 
components.

That being said, I do really like the 1x11 and now 1x12 drivetrains coming 
out now. I think we all drooled when that 1x10 drivetrain hunqapillar was 
posted on the blug a while back. I hope they get popular enough that it 
drives the price down and is easier to mix and match parts. 

I go back and forth on the 2 x vs. 3 x thing all the time. 

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[RBW] Re: 50 t rear cog -- Never walk another hill

[BSWP]

Makes the Rohloff IGH all the moar attractive, in my opinion.

- Andrew, Berkeley

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[RBW] Re: 50 t rear cog -- Never walk another hill

[Lungimsam]

Sounds like an interesting idea. It makes a 10-speed cassette.
But if you only like friction shifting, like me,  fugghetaboutit..

In my experience, friction shifting 10 is horrible and full of auto shits.
9 is fine.
8 is great.
7 pretty much eliminates auto shifting for me so far

I also don't like the discus like appearance of a cassette that large. YMMV.

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[RBW] Re: 50 t rear cog -- Never walk another hill

[iamkeith]

I just saw that too.   I know this wasn't the point of your posting, but 
I've never figured out why so many people on this board think these large 
cogs are so ridiculous.   I completely understand the goal of eliminating a 
front derailleur and, in my opinion,  this is just now finally... and just 
barely... getting to the point where a 1x drivetrain could be feasible and 
realistic.  Admittedly, it  really only works for mountainous trail riding, 
even then.  I'm assuming you'd use a single front ring around 30 or 32 
teeth, to still have a decent granny gear, so you wouldn't have the tall 
gears needed for road riding, and the steps between the middle cogs would 
probably be too big too.  

You just have to think outside of the road bike and flattish, paved areas, 
to the places where I live and ride.

The things that I think funny are 2x drivetrains.If you're going to 
need a derailleur and shifter anyway,  you might as well add that third 
ring and give yourself all the range you can use.

On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 12:47:56 PM UTC-6, Jim M. wrote:
>
> It's not April Fool's day, so it must be real:
>
> http://www.pinkbike.com/news/oneup-shark-50t-sprocket-kit-review.html
>
>
> jim m
> wc ca
>

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