[RBW] Re: Bar height and hand pain... don't know what else to do...
I wish you all the luck in resolving the hand pain Rene. For me, a double wrap of cotton tape on my Atlantis bike makes the bars noticeably easier on my hand than a single wrap. It increases the diameter and seems to spread out the load a bit. Good luck! Angus On Feb 26, 10:41 am, Rene Sterental orthie...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks everybody for their feedback and suggestions. I don't get any numbness or tingling; it's just pain on the palm from the pressure of the bar. I do have to keep moving my hands, but in general no matter how I move them, whichever part of the palm that is bearing the pressure hurts. When riding hard it tends to diminish as I'm pressing harder on the pedals; when riding leisurly they hurt more as I'm not pressing so hard on the pedals. I usually try to pedal at higher cadences (90+) to relieve my knees, so the hands end up bearing more weight, but it's not a huge difference. The saddle position is not an issue, as I had already learned to adjust the B17 properly to eliminate sliding forward on it, and learned to accept the nose up position as normal. I'm pretty much fit so that my knee is slightly behind the pedal spindle; if I push the saddle further back to relieve hand pressure, then my knees start complaining loudly. I had already considered rotating the M-bars but had been very conservative. I'll try more aggressive rotation and see how that goes. The noodle bars on the AHH do provide more hand positions and bother me less than the M-bars, so I may try setting the Bombadil with a set and see how it goes if rotating the M-bars doesn't provide any relief. I'm hoping that losing weight and strengthening my core might help as well... René On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 7:58 AM, Joe Bartoe jbar...@hotmail.com wrote: I haven't been following the thread, but I've found that higher bars, for me, cause hand and wrist pain. Keeping the bars about 2 inches lower than saddle height keeps me happy. Just another data point, Joe Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:21:07 -0800 Subject: [RBW] Re: Bar height and hand pain... don't know what else to do... From: bmenn...@comcast.net To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 'Butt back' as so many have recommended may help take weight off of your hands, but may also require an extra degree of flexibility if it makes you stretch too far forward to meet the bars. I have been there and (after getting a detailed professional bike fitting) wound up moving back forward some and my hips are happier for it. If you do need to get further back, I have a VO post I'm not using and wouldn't mind selling. It's a nice post, it just has too much offset for my current needs. Saddle tilt is a (maybe THE) key factor. If the nose is down even slightly too far, you are constantly using your hands to push your butt back where it belongs and the result will be hand problems. Your saddle position should be neutral enough that your butt will stay put with no hands on the bars. Raising the nose to the point that you stay put properly may cause other problems. I am *very* sensitive to perineal pressure. Like a lot of men my age I have a degree of BPH, and have had some very painful bouts with acute prostatitis. It drove me to ride a recumbent for several years. For years before that I rode with the saddle pointed down to take the pressure off of the sensitive bits. The result? Numb fingers. Now I'm back to upright bikes, and paying lots of attention to saddle angle. I have had to face the fact that I can't ride a stock Brooks saddle with the nose up where it belongs. Too much perineal contact! A couple of my bikes now wear modern plasticky saddles with cutouts, and they do work. In fact, the Specialized Alias on my silly go-fast bike is surprisingly comfortable given it's minimal padding (but only for faster paced 'sporting' use, I wouldn't put one on a cruiser!). I have modified the two Brookses I ride regularly to look something like a simplified Imperial. My basic procedure is to use a 1/2 drill bit, drill out the three vent holes in the top of the saddle, connect the circles with more holes, add one more hole in front of the first vent hole, trim the edges smooth with a razor knife and burnish the cut edge with a little Proofide. I don't know if they will hold up in the long term, but the slot relieves enough pressure to let me tilt the nose up, my butt stays back on the saddle without effort, and both hands and nether bits are happier. I've laced the skirt of one of the saddles to help it keep its shape and may wind up lacing the second one as well. I also have some hundreds of miles on a Selle Anatomica, which features a cutout. It too needs careful tilt adjustment to work properly. I can't emphasize enough that hand problems can start at the saddle, so get that right before making any other drastic
Re: [RBW] Re: Bar height and hand pain... don't know what else to do...
Here is one more recommendation for a saddle position that, as Steve said, allows you to hold your hands slightly above the bar, without undue strain, while pedaling. The new Sam Hillborne is so set up that I can do that while in the hooks, and while I did start a numb left palm yesterday, as expected, it was only after 20+ miles in the hooks. The hoods would have been utterly unproblematica. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Bar height and hand pain... don't know what else to do...
All valuable advice. Does anyone have any insight comparing the OnOne Midge bars to the Noodle bars? I think the Moustache bars coming out for now. René On 2/27/10, PATRICK MOORE bertin...@gmail.com wrote: Here is one more recommendation for a saddle position that, as Steve said, allows you to hold your hands slightly above the bar, without undue strain, while pedaling. The new Sam Hillborne is so set up that I can do that while in the hooks, and while I did start a numb left palm yesterday, as expected, it was only after 20+ miles in the hooks. The hoods would have been utterly unproblematica. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- Sent from my mobile device -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Bar height and hand pain... don't know what else to do...
The midge bars are MUCH wider feeling and in actuall measure. I have them and use them on some set ups, but find the drops short, I have big hands. The number of hand positions is somewhat limited too, due to the shape. I find myself always coming back to the Nitto dirt drop. Downside to that is they are near impossible to find. I stockpiled a few from the last batch rivendel sold. There are rumors now of more to come. These were similar in shape to the noodle, but more flair and no sweep back. These are the standard nitto RM013 as sold by Riv, measure 49 cm at the shifters. These are my favorite for mostly road bikes. I also have a wider pair of RM013 053 that measure 53 cm at the shifters. These are the business on mixed terrain bike as far as I am concerned. The Midge bars are way out at 56 cm at the shifters. Also, since you are heading down this path, the new WTB dirt drop bar is out there. It is as wide or wider than the midge and yo uhave to bore out the ends yourself for barcons. The anatomic bend did not really work for me at all. I tried to like them over the course of a year, but never made it there. Good luck, you will get very good at setting up your controls as you go through the process of finding what you like. Rob On Feb 27, 10:42 am, Rene Sterental orthie...@gmail.com wrote: All valuable advice. Does anyone have any insight comparing the OnOne Midge bars to the Noodle bars? I think the Moustache bars coming out for now. René On 2/27/10, PATRICK MOORE bertin...@gmail.com wrote: Here is one more recommendation for a saddle position that, as Steve said, allows you to hold your hands slightly above the bar, without undue strain, while pedaling. The new Sam Hillborne is so set up that I can do that while in the hooks, and while I did start a numb left palm yesterday, as expected, it was only after 20+ miles in the hooks. The hoods would have been utterly unproblematica. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- Sent from my mobile device- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Bar height and hand pain... don't know what else to do...
Thanks everybody for their feedback and suggestions. I don't get any numbness or tingling; it's just pain on the palm from the pressure of the bar. I do have to keep moving my hands, but in general no matter how I move them, whichever part of the palm that is bearing the pressure hurts. When riding hard it tends to diminish as I'm pressing harder on the pedals; when riding leisurly they hurt more as I'm not pressing so hard on the pedals. I usually try to pedal at higher cadences (90+) to relieve my knees, so the hands end up bearing more weight, but it's not a huge difference. The saddle position is not an issue, as I had already learned to adjust the B17 properly to eliminate sliding forward on it, and learned to accept the nose up position as normal. I'm pretty much fit so that my knee is slightly behind the pedal spindle; if I push the saddle further back to relieve hand pressure, then my knees start complaining loudly. I had already considered rotating the M-bars but had been very conservative. I'll try more aggressive rotation and see how that goes. The noodle bars on the AHH do provide more hand positions and bother me less than the M-bars, so I may try setting the Bombadil with a set and see how it goes if rotating the M-bars doesn't provide any relief. I'm hoping that losing weight and strengthening my core might help as well... René On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 7:58 AM, Joe Bartoe jbar...@hotmail.com wrote: I haven't been following the thread, but I've found that higher bars, for me, cause hand and wrist pain. Keeping the bars about 2 inches lower than saddle height keeps me happy. Just another data point, Joe Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:21:07 -0800 Subject: [RBW] Re: Bar height and hand pain... don't know what else to do... From: bmenn...@comcast.net To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 'Butt back' as so many have recommended may help take weight off of your hands, but may also require an extra degree of flexibility if it makes you stretch too far forward to meet the bars. I have been there and (after getting a detailed professional bike fitting) wound up moving back forward some and my hips are happier for it. If you do need to get further back, I have a VO post I'm not using and wouldn't mind selling. It's a nice post, it just has too much offset for my current needs. Saddle tilt is a (maybe THE) key factor. If the nose is down even slightly too far, you are constantly using your hands to push your butt back where it belongs and the result will be hand problems. Your saddle position should be neutral enough that your butt will stay put with no hands on the bars. Raising the nose to the point that you stay put properly may cause other problems. I am *very* sensitive to perineal pressure. Like a lot of men my age I have a degree of BPH, and have had some very painful bouts with acute prostatitis. It drove me to ride a recumbent for several years. For years before that I rode with the saddle pointed down to take the pressure off of the sensitive bits. The result? Numb fingers. Now I'm back to upright bikes, and paying lots of attention to saddle angle. I have had to face the fact that I can't ride a stock Brooks saddle with the nose up where it belongs. Too much perineal contact! A couple of my bikes now wear modern plasticky saddles with cutouts, and they do work. In fact, the Specialized Alias on my silly go-fast bike is surprisingly comfortable given it's minimal padding (but only for faster paced 'sporting' use, I wouldn't put one on a cruiser!). I have modified the two Brookses I ride regularly to look something like a simplified Imperial. My basic procedure is to use a 1/2 drill bit, drill out the three vent holes in the top of the saddle, connect the circles with more holes, add one more hole in front of the first vent hole, trim the edges smooth with a razor knife and burnish the cut edge with a little Proofide. I don't know if they will hold up in the long term, but the slot relieves enough pressure to let me tilt the nose up, my butt stays back on the saddle without effort, and both hands and nether bits are happier. I've laced the skirt of one of the saddles to help it keep its shape and may wind up lacing the second one as well. I also have some hundreds of miles on a Selle Anatomica, which features a cutout. It too needs careful tilt adjustment to work properly. I can't emphasize enough that hand problems can start at the saddle, so get that right before making any other drastic changes. It may be worth paying to a sympathetic professional fitter. It was for me. Bill On Feb 24, 11:49 am, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: +1 on sliding the seat back as far as possible. If you have a Brooks and a seatpost with vaguely 'normal' setback, I'd urge you to try a seatpost with more setback. The S-83 appears to have a fair amount. Velo Orange sells
Re: [RBW] Re: Bar height and hand pain... don't know what else to do...
On Fri, 2010-02-26 at 08:41 -0800, Rene Sterental wrote: Thanks everybody for their feedback and suggestions. I don't get any numbness or tingling; it's just pain on the palm from the pressure of the bar. I do have to keep moving my hands, but in general no matter how I move them, whichever part of the palm that is bearing the pressure hurts. When riding hard it tends to diminish as I'm pressing harder on the pedals; when riding leisurly they hurt more as I'm not pressing so hard on the pedals. I usually try to pedal at higher cadences (90+) to relieve my knees, so the hands end up bearing more weight, but it's not a huge difference. Your hands shouldn't be bearing much weight. The saddle position is not an issue, as I had already learned to adjust the B17 properly to eliminate sliding forward on it, and learned to accept the nose up position as normal. That's angle. How about fore-and-aft? I know this has been suggested to you, and I'm going to suggest it again: check the fore-and-aft position of the saddle. One of the key symptoms of it being wrong is your being forced to carry a lot of weight on your hands. When the saddle is in the right place you ought to be able to scrunch down on the saddle with your butt cheeks and lightly rest your hands on the bars like they were resting on the keys of a piano. You won't always ride in that position, but you ought to be able to do it. If you can't, it's very likely because the saddle's in the wrong position. Also check the stem extension. My experience has been that putting the bar too close to me forces a lot of pressure on your hands. I'm pretty much fit so that my knee is slightly behind the pedal spindle; if I push the saddle further back to relieve hand pressure, then my knees start complaining loudly. I had already considered rotating the M-bars but had been very conservative. I'll try more aggressive rotation and see how that goes. I think it's been mentioned before, but whem M-bars first came out with the XO-1 many people, perhaps 1/3 or more, were totally unable to find a comfortable position with them. They either work or they don't, and for many people they just plain don't. The noodle bars on the AHH do provide more hand positions and bother me less than the M-bars, so I may try setting the Bombadil with a set and see how it goes if rotating the M-bars doesn't provide any relief. I'm hoping that losing weight and strengthening my core might help as well... Those are good things in and of themselves. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Bar height and hand pain... don't know what else to do...
Thanks for pointing that out, Steve. I'm going to check those as well. René On 2/26/10, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On Fri, 2010-02-26 at 08:41 -0800, Rene Sterental wrote: Thanks everybody for their feedback and suggestions. I don't get any numbness or tingling; it's just pain on the palm from the pressure of the bar. I do have to keep moving my hands, but in general no matter how I move them, whichever part of the palm that is bearing the pressure hurts. When riding hard it tends to diminish as I'm pressing harder on the pedals; when riding leisurly they hurt more as I'm not pressing so hard on the pedals. I usually try to pedal at higher cadences (90+) to relieve my knees, so the hands end up bearing more weight, but it's not a huge difference. Your hands shouldn't be bearing much weight. The saddle position is not an issue, as I had already learned to adjust the B17 properly to eliminate sliding forward on it, and learned to accept the nose up position as normal. That's angle. How about fore-and-aft? I know this has been suggested to you, and I'm going to suggest it again: check the fore-and-aft position of the saddle. One of the key symptoms of it being wrong is your being forced to carry a lot of weight on your hands. When the saddle is in the right place you ought to be able to scrunch down on the saddle with your butt cheeks and lightly rest your hands on the bars like they were resting on the keys of a piano. You won't always ride in that position, but you ought to be able to do it. If you can't, it's very likely because the saddle's in the wrong position. Also check the stem extension. My experience has been that putting the bar too close to me forces a lot of pressure on your hands. I'm pretty much fit so that my knee is slightly behind the pedal spindle; if I push the saddle further back to relieve hand pressure, then my knees start complaining loudly. I had already considered rotating the M-bars but had been very conservative. I'll try more aggressive rotation and see how that goes. I think it's been mentioned before, but whem M-bars first came out with the XO-1 many people, perhaps 1/3 or more, were totally unable to find a comfortable position with them. They either work or they don't, and for many people they just plain don't. The noodle bars on the AHH do provide more hand positions and bother me less than the M-bars, so I may try setting the Bombadil with a set and see how it goes if rotating the M-bars doesn't provide any relief. I'm hoping that losing weight and strengthening my core might help as well... Those are good things in and of themselves. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- Sent from my mobile device -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
RE: [RBW] Re: Bar height and hand pain... don't know what else to do...
Are you using any sort of padding, Rene, either on the bars or gloves? I've had good results with Specialized BG gloves and Fizik bar gel under my bar tape... (t'other) Steve's idea about the bars being too close is certainly worth exploring as well. Good luck! Steve Frederick, East Lansing MI -Original Message- From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com]on Behalf Of Rene Sterental Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 11:41 AM To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Bar height and hand pain... don't know what else to do... Thanks everybody for their feedback and suggestions. I don't get any numbness or tingling; it's just pain on the palm from the pressure of the bar. I do have to keep moving my hands, but in general no matter how I move them, whichever part of the palm that is bearing the pressure hurts. When riding hard it tends to diminish as I'm pressing harder on the pedals; when riding leisurly they hurt more as I'm not pressing so hard on the pedals. I usually try to pedal at higher cadences (90+) to relieve my knees, so the hands end up bearing more weight, but it's not a huge difference. The saddle position is not an issue, as I had already learned to adjust the B17 properly to eliminate sliding forward on it, and learned to accept the nose up position as normal. I'm pretty much fit so that my knee is slightly behind the pedal spindle; if I push the saddle further back to relieve hand pressure, then my knees start complaining loudly. I had already considered rotating the M-bars but had been very conservative. I'll try more aggressive rotation and see how that goes. The noodle bars on the AHH do provide more hand positions and bother me less than the M-bars, so I may try setting the Bombadil with a set and see how it goes if rotating the M-bars doesn't provide any relief. I'm hoping that losing weight and strengthening my core might help as well... René On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 7:58 AM, Joe Bartoe jbar...@hotmail.com wrote: I haven't been following the thread, but I've found that higher bars, for me, cause hand and wrist pain. Keeping the bars about 2 inches lower than saddle height keeps me happy. Just another data point, Joe Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:21:07 -0800 Subject: [RBW] Re: Bar height and hand pain... don't know what else to do... From: bmenn...@comcast.net To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 'Butt back' as so many have recommended may help take weight off of your hands, but may also require an extra degree of flexibility if it makes you stretch too far forward to meet the bars. I have been there and (after getting a detailed professional bike fitting) wound up moving back forward some and my hips are happier for it. If you do need to get further back, I have a VO post I'm not using and wouldn't mind selling. It's a nice post, it just has too much offset for my current needs. Saddle tilt is a (maybe THE) key factor. If the nose is down even slightly too far, you are constantly using your hands to push your butt back where it belongs and the result will be hand problems. Your saddle position should be neutral enough that your butt will stay put with no hands on the bars. Raising the nose to the point that you stay put properly may cause other problems. I am *very* sensitive to perineal pressure. Like a lot of men my age I have a degree of BPH, and have had some very painful bouts with acute prostatitis. It drove me to ride a recumbent for several years. For years before that I rode with the saddle pointed down to take the pressure off of the sensitive bits. The result? Numb fingers. Now I'm back to upright bikes, and paying lots of attention to saddle angle. I have had to face the fact that I can't ride a stock Brooks saddle with the nose up where it belongs. Too much perineal contact! A couple of my bikes now wear modern plasticky saddles with cutouts, and they do work. In fact, the Specialized Alias on my silly go-fast bike is surprisingly comfortable given it's minimal padding (but only for faster paced 'sporting' use, I wouldn't put one on a cruiser!). I have modified the two Brookses I ride regularly to look something like a simplified Imperial. My basic procedure is to use a 1/2 drill bit, drill out the three vent holes in the top of the saddle, connect the circles with more holes, add one more hole in front of the first vent hole, trim the edges smooth with a razor knife and burnish the cut edge with a little Proofide. I don't know if they will hold up in the long term, but the slot relieves enough pressure to let me tilt the nose up, my butt stays back on the saddle without effort, and both hands and nether bits are happier. I've laced the skirt of one of the saddles to help it keep its shape and may wind up lacing the second one as well. I also have some hundreds of miles on a Selle Anatomica, which features a cutout
[RBW] Re: Bar height and hand pain... don't know what else to do...
My problems mostly occurred with padded tape. Using plastic or cotton tape gave me a better hand fit and the occurance of hand pain is now much lessened. Using thin tape allows me to grip the bars without using my palms, on the tops. I prefer this grip in absence of any pain anyway. On 26 Feb, 18:34, Frederick, Steve frede...@mail.lib.msu.edu wrote: Are you using any sort of padding, Rene, either on the bars or gloves? I've had good results with Specialized BG gloves and Fizik bar gel under my bar tape... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
RE: [RBW] Re: Bar height and hand pain... don't know what else to do...
I haven't been following the thread, but I've found that higher bars, for me, cause hand and wrist pain. Keeping the bars about 2 inches lower than saddle height keeps me happy. Just another data point, Joe Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:21:07 -0800 Subject: [RBW] Re: Bar height and hand pain... don't know what else to do... From: bmenn...@comcast.net To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 'Butt back' as so many have recommended may help take weight off of your hands, but may also require an extra degree of flexibility if it makes you stretch too far forward to meet the bars. I have been there and (after getting a detailed professional bike fitting) wound up moving back forward some and my hips are happier for it. If you do need to get further back, I have a VO post I'm not using and wouldn't mind selling. It's a nice post, it just has too much offset for my current needs. Saddle tilt is a (maybe THE) key factor. If the nose is down even slightly too far, you are constantly using your hands to push your butt back where it belongs and the result will be hand problems. Your saddle position should be neutral enough that your butt will stay put with no hands on the bars. Raising the nose to the point that you stay put properly may cause other problems. I am *very* sensitive to perineal pressure. Like a lot of men my age I have a degree of BPH, and have had some very painful bouts with acute prostatitis. It drove me to ride a recumbent for several years. For years before that I rode with the saddle pointed down to take the pressure off of the sensitive bits. The result? Numb fingers. Now I'm back to upright bikes, and paying lots of attention to saddle angle. I have had to face the fact that I can't ride a stock Brooks saddle with the nose up where it belongs. Too much perineal contact! A couple of my bikes now wear modern plasticky saddles with cutouts, and they do work. In fact, the Specialized Alias on my silly go-fast bike is surprisingly comfortable given it's minimal padding (but only for faster paced 'sporting' use, I wouldn't put one on a cruiser!). I have modified the two Brookses I ride regularly to look something like a simplified Imperial. My basic procedure is to use a 1/2 drill bit, drill out the three vent holes in the top of the saddle, connect the circles with more holes, add one more hole in front of the first vent hole, trim the edges smooth with a razor knife and burnish the cut edge with a little Proofide. I don't know if they will hold up in the long term, but the slot relieves enough pressure to let me tilt the nose up, my butt stays back on the saddle without effort, and both hands and nether bits are happier. I've laced the skirt of one of the saddles to help it keep its shape and may wind up lacing the second one as well. I also have some hundreds of miles on a Selle Anatomica, which features a cutout. It too needs careful tilt adjustment to work properly. I can't emphasize enough that hand problems can start at the saddle, so get that right before making any other drastic changes. It may be worth paying to a sympathetic professional fitter. It was for me. Bill On Feb 24, 11:49 am, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: +1 on sliding the seat back as far as possible. If you have a Brooks and a seatpost with vaguely 'normal' setback, I'd urge you to try a seatpost with more setback. The S-83 appears to have a fair amount. Velo Orange sells a $50 one that was specifically designed to get more setback on short-railed saddles like the Brooks. Finally, I'd recommend that you make a conscious effort to get your sit-bones back as far as possible on the saddle. If that feels like it takes a real effort and if it feels like you soon slide back forward and have to readjust, then I'd add a +1 for saddle tilt to help you keep the sit bones back. I'd also recommend the following test. While you are riding on a flat in a straight line, it's my opinion that you should be able to easily ride with you body in EXACTLY the same position with your hand hovering 1cm above the handlebar (not touching it). If your body can't be there without your hands holding your body up, it doesn't fit. Lastly, addressing bar height, your brake cables shouldn't stop you from getting the bars higher if that's what you want to try. Don't hesitate to rip off the bar tape if it allows you to try something that might allow you to ride without pain. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en
[RBW] Re: Bar height and hand pain... don't know what else to do...
Can you be more specific about where the pain is? What size tires at what pressures are you riding? I find that shifting my hands around a lot helps (I don't get pain, but numbness sometimes). Try changing your grip every few minutes. Different gloves that place the padding in different places may also help. Try running the fattest tires at the lowest pressures possible. If it's wrist pain, be conscious of keeping your wrists in a neutral position, i.e. not cocked. Try this: let your arms hang naturally by your sides, then raise them from the shoulder sockets and note the position of your hands in space. Do any of your bar positions mimic this position? (For most people the answer is no.) Change your setup so you can mimic this neutral wrist position. For me that means rotating the brake hoods in towards the bike's midline on my Noodle, and placing the hoods quite high on the Noodle's hooks, and keeping the flats at least horizontal, if not sloping up towards the front. Cheers, Gernot On Feb 24, 2:13 pm, Rene Sterental orthie...@gmail.com wrote: I can't find a position where I will ride with no pain in my hands. I've removed neck and shoulder pain after switching to Rivendell bikes, but I can't get rid of the hand pain. Raising or lowering the bar doesn't seem to make a difference. If anything, it seems to me that raising it actually makes it worse. On both the AHH with Noodle bars and the Bombadil with Moustache bars, shortening the stem has made me feel the spot overall, as well as lowering the bars some. But the hand pain doesn't go away. Today I raised the M-bar on the Bombadil as far as the brake cables would allow (raised it about 1.5 cm higher than I had them) and if anything, it seems that the hand pain was worse. Looking at my profile on window reflections while riding, it seems to me that I went from a 45-50 degree forward lean to a 50-55 degree forward lean when putting my hands on the braking position. When my hands are on the edges of the bar where the shifters are, I'm more upright but there is still a forward lean. It seems to me that as long as I have a forward lean of some sort, there is some amount of pressure on my hands and that causes them to hurt. My explanation for the slightly less hand pain when the bars are a bit lower (still higher than the saddle) is that the 45 degree forward lean allows me to engage more back muscles as well as use my legs more effectively, and that raising the bar reduces the work from my muscles and therefore my hands bear more of my weight. They also seem to hurt less when riding gloveless on the M-bars. Can anybody offer more insight into what I might try doing to deal with the pain in my hands? Thank you, René -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Bar height and hand pain... don't know what else to do...
First thing I'd try is sliding the saddle backwards as far as it will go, and maybe angle the nose up a bit if it's not already. Then I'd ditch the mbars at my earliest convenience and get a nice, wide noodle bar. If it doesn't bother your knees, try riding in higher gears. The more force you apply to the pedals, the less weight you will be supporting on your hands. On Feb 24, 2:13 am, Rene Sterental orthie...@gmail.com wrote: I can't find a position where I will ride with no pain in my hands. I've removed neck and shoulder pain after switching to Rivendell bikes, but I can't get rid of the hand pain. Raising or lowering the bar doesn't seem to make a difference. If anything, it seems to me that raising it actually makes it worse. On both the AHH with Noodle bars and the Bombadil with Moustache bars, shortening the stem has made me feel the spot overall, as well as lowering the bars some. But the hand pain doesn't go away. Today I raised the M-bar on the Bombadil as far as the brake cables would allow (raised it about 1.5 cm higher than I had them) and if anything, it seems that the hand pain was worse. Looking at my profile on window reflections while riding, it seems to me that I went from a 45-50 degree forward lean to a 50-55 degree forward lean when putting my hands on the braking position. When my hands are on the edges of the bar where the shifters are, I'm more upright but there is still a forward lean. It seems to me that as long as I have a forward lean of some sort, there is some amount of pressure on my hands and that causes them to hurt. My explanation for the slightly less hand pain when the bars are a bit lower (still higher than the saddle) is that the 45 degree forward lean allows me to engage more back muscles as well as use my legs more effectively, and that raising the bar reduces the work from my muscles and therefore my hands bear more of my weight. They also seem to hurt less when riding gloveless on the M-bars. Can anybody offer more insight into what I might try doing to deal with the pain in my hands? Thank you, René -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Bar height and hand pain... don't know what else to do...
I concur with the other rreplies so far as well. I have ridden a few bars and prefer the greater flair in the dorps of a dirt drop style bar, helps me achieve the neutral position. The key is finding that position for you. I also prefer the added thicknes of Soma's thick and zesty tape. It is the thickness that works for me more than the padding. I ride without gloves, I tried to like them, have 5 or 6 different pairs in the garage, and was never comfortable. My hand salways either went numb or a weird shooting pain out of the wrist up through the finger tips. Do not be afraid to experement, one day you will find the magic location and style of your personal contact points and any build after that will be much easier. Rob On Feb 23, 11:13 pm, Rene Sterental orthie...@gmail.com wrote: I can't find a position where I will ride with no pain in my hands. I've removed neck and shoulder pain after switching to Rivendell bikes, but I can't get rid of the hand pain. Raising or lowering the bar doesn't seem to make a difference. If anything, it seems to me that raising it actually makes it worse. On both the AHH with Noodle bars and the Bombadil with Moustache bars, shortening the stem has made me feel the spot overall, as well as lowering the bars some. But the hand pain doesn't go away. Today I raised the M-bar on the Bombadil as far as the brake cables would allow (raised it about 1.5 cm higher than I had them) and if anything, it seems that the hand pain was worse. Looking at my profile on window reflections while riding, it seems to me that I went from a 45-50 degree forward lean to a 50-55 degree forward lean when putting my hands on the braking position. When my hands are on the edges of the bar where the shifters are, I'm more upright but there is still a forward lean. It seems to me that as long as I have a forward lean of some sort, there is some amount of pressure on my hands and that causes them to hurt. My explanation for the slightly less hand pain when the bars are a bit lower (still higher than the saddle) is that the 45 degree forward lean allows me to engage more back muscles as well as use my legs more effectively, and that raising the bar reduces the work from my muscles and therefore my hands bear more of my weight. They also seem to hurt less when riding gloveless on the M-bars. Can anybody offer more insight into what I might try doing to deal with the pain in my hands? Thank you, René -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Bar height and hand pain... don't know what else to do...
On Feb 24, 2010, at 1:13 AM, Rene Sterental wrote: Can anybody offer more insight into what I might try doing to deal with the pain in my hands? Hand *pain* when riding is fairly unusual IME. Focal numbness is common enough that there is a name for it: cyclist's palsy or handlebar palsy. It's caused by compression of the ulnar nerve and causes numbness of the ring and little fingers. Sometimes there is pain, from what I've read. Googling for this might find some helpful articles- here's one: http://recoverydoctor.blogspot.com/2009/08/cyclist-palsy-ulnar- neuropathy-handle.html In terms of immediate practical recommendations, play with handlebar angle to see if that helps to get the pressure off the tender area. Try double wrapping the bars or using even a couple of layers of cork tape- a larger diameter might be helpful. There are gel inserts you can buy to go under the tape, too. And as others have said, saddle position and angle might be helpful; for one thing, make sure your saddle is not too high or too far back (ever since Greg Lemond's book, cyclists have been shoving saddles as far back as possible and often too far back). Good luck! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Bar height and hand pain... don't know what else to do...
What I think works well is to rubber cement an extra layer of leather across the palm of some cycling gloves to spread out the pressure. Most of the so called padding in cycling gloves is a joke. --- On Wed, 2/24/10, Tim McNamara tim...@bitstream.net wrote: From: Tim McNamara tim...@bitstream.net Subject: [RBW] Re: Bar height and hand pain... don't know what else to do... To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 9:36 AM On Feb 24, 2010, at 1:13 AM, Rene Sterental wrote: Can anybody offer more insight into what I might try doing to deal with the pain in my hands? Hand *pain* when riding is fairly unusual IME. Focal numbness is common enough that there is a name for it: cyclist's palsy or handlebar palsy. It's caused by compression of the ulnar nerve and causes numbness of the ring and little fingers. Sometimes there is pain, from what I've read. Googling for this might find some helpful articles- here's one: http://recoverydoctor.blogspot.com/2009/08/cyclist-palsy-ulnar-neuropathy-handle.html In terms of immediate practical recommendations, play with handlebar angle to see if that helps to get the pressure off the tender area. Try double wrapping the bars or using even a couple of layers of cork tape- a larger diameter might be helpful. There are gel inserts you can buy to go under the tape, too. And as others have said, saddle position and angle might be helpful; for one thing, make sure your saddle is not too high or too far back (ever since Greg Lemond's book, cyclists have been shoving saddles as far back as possible and often too far back). Good luck! --You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Bar height and hand pain... don't know what else to do...
On Feb 24, 12:13 am, Rene Sterental orthie...@gmail.com wrote: I can't find a position where I will ride with no pain in my hands. Wow, I'll bet this is frustrating for you. I was going to advise that you ditch the M-bars as well, but you indicate that the AHH with noodles causes hand pain as well. Other posters have offered sound advice and I'll try not to repeat that. First, it is important to change your grip frequently and to ride with your hands resting on the bar, instead of gripping it. Obviously there are times when one must grip firmly, but these are the exception rather than the rule. Second, it sounds like you've been raising the bars, how about lowering them? A friend of mine simply won't buy the same height as the seat or higher mantra. His experience tells him that he is much more comfortable with the bars a couple of inches lower than the saddle. You're not comfortable with the position you are in. So, you lose nothing by lowering the bars to try out something new. I guess I'll repeat that saddle tilt can make a big difference. Too little back tilt and you'll slide forward. Too much and you'll get numbness elsewhere. Don't be afraid to angle the saddle back past horizontal. I've seen what I consider to be crazy amounts of rearward tilt on Brooks saddles and the riders' experiences are that they are comfortable. As with handlebar height, we have to let go of our prejudices to deal with ride positioning objectively. On this last point - letting go of prejudices or strongly held opinions about what is true - it is important to have an open mind in the broader sense. My brother was never able to get comfortable on an upright bike. Once he let go of that vision of cycling and bought a recumbent, he became a happy cyclist. Another friend has MS and couldn't ride an upright anymore, so he quit riding years ago. After I convinced him to change his view on what a bicycle might be, he bought a trike. He's happy as heck and is taking a bicycle 3 week bicycle tour with his son this summer. Good luck, Dave -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Bar height and hand pain... don't know what else to do...
Besides what everyone else's good advice, it can only help to do crunches to build the strength of your abdominal core. On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 9:36 AM, Tim McNamara tim...@bitstream.net wrote: On Feb 24, 2010, at 1:13 AM, Rene Sterental wrote: Can anybody offer more insight into what I might try doing to deal with the pain in my hands? Hand *pain* when riding is fairly unusual IME. Focal numbness is common enough that there is a name for it: cyclist's palsy or handlebar palsy. It's caused by compression of the ulnar nerve and causes numbness of the ring and little fingers. Sometimes there is pain, from what I've read. Googling for this might find some helpful articles- here's one: http://recoverydoctor.blogspot.com/2009/08/cyclist-palsy-ulnar- neuropathy-handle.html In terms of immediate practical recommendations, play with handlebar angle to see if that helps to get the pressure off the tender area. Try double wrapping the bars or using even a couple of layers of cork tape- a larger diameter might be helpful. There are gel inserts you can buy to go under the tape, too. And as others have said, saddle position and angle might be helpful; for one thing, make sure your saddle is not too high or too far back (ever since Greg Lemond's book, cyclists have been shoving saddles as far back as possible and often too far back). Good luck! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comrbw-owners-bunch%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Bar height and hand pain... don't know what else to do...
A saddle note that I did not see mentioned yet, pull the nose up, leaving a flattish area to plunk your sit bones on. Rotates body weight off your hands and arms and onto the saddle. If you scroll through the Cyclofiend galleries, you will see many bikes set up that way. (Caveat: This is based on my observations for men. Women have different pelvic geometry and saddle position will necessarily differ for them.) Sit ups do help with back pain issues, but I have not heard they help with wrist/hand pain. Look to other activities, like extended keyboard sessions with a too high keyboard or too stiff keys as also contributing to wrist/hand issues. Tailwinds From: Roy Yates roydya...@gmail.com To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Sent: Wed, February 24, 2010 9:11:50 AM Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Bar height and hand pain... don't know what else to do... Besides what everyone else's good advice, it can only help to do crunches to build the strength of your abdominal core. On Feb 24, 2010, at 1:13 AM, Rene Sterental wrote: Can anybody offer more insight into what I might try doing to deal with the pain in my hands? Hand *pain* when riding is fairly unusual IME. Focal numbness is common enough that there is a name for it: cyclist's palsy or handlebar palsy. It's caused by compression of the ulnar nerve and causes numbness of the ring and little fingers. And as others have said, saddle position and angle might be helpful; for one thing, make sure your saddle is not too high or too far back (ever since Greg Lemond's book, cyclists have been shoving saddles as far back as possible and often too far back). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Bar height and hand pain... don't know what else to do...
I too struggled a bit with hand pain on traditional drop bars last year after exclusively riding flared drops (on-one midges) for a while. In the end, the thing that fixed it for me was rotating the whole bar backwards (so that the end of the bar points downwards, roughly towards the rear hub). Looking at my set up with the midge bars, I think this is equally true for traditional drop bars (noodle, dream, 115, etc.) and flared or moustache type bars as well. Aesthetics (and Grant's writing on the Noodle) tells us that perfectly level tops are the best neutral position but i find that biomechanically i'm still sliding forward on a level bar, that only when it's slanted back do my hands feel nicely supported and i can ride with a light grip. Of course, things look a little funky with my brake levers pointed skywards but it sure is comfy! Also, my hands are absolutely more comfortable on a bike with larger, lower-pressure tires. In the end, of course, all of this is going to vary greatly from body to body so I think the best thing is to experiment with all of the variables (not just bar height or reach) and don't be afraid to think outside of the box. On Feb 23, 11:13 pm, Rene Sterental orthie...@gmail.com wrote: I can't find a position where I will ride with no pain in my hands. I've removed neck and shoulder pain after switching to Rivendell bikes, but I can't get rid of the hand pain. Raising or lowering the bar doesn't seem to make a difference. If anything, it seems to me that raising it actually makes it worse. On both the AHH with Noodle bars and the Bombadil with Moustache bars, shortening the stem has made me feel the spot overall, as well as lowering the bars some. But the hand pain doesn't go away. Today I raised the M-bar on the Bombadil as far as the brake cables would allow (raised it about 1.5 cm higher than I had them) and if anything, it seems that the hand pain was worse. Looking at my profile on window reflections while riding, it seems to me that I went from a 45-50 degree forward lean to a 50-55 degree forward lean when putting my hands on the braking position. When my hands are on the edges of the bar where the shifters are, I'm more upright but there is still a forward lean. It seems to me that as long as I have a forward lean of some sort, there is some amount of pressure on my hands and that causes them to hurt. My explanation for the slightly less hand pain when the bars are a bit lower (still higher than the saddle) is that the 45 degree forward lean allows me to engage more back muscles as well as use my legs more effectively, and that raising the bar reduces the work from my muscles and therefore my hands bear more of my weight. They also seem to hurt less when riding gloveless on the M-bars. Can anybody offer more insight into what I might try doing to deal with the pain in my hands? Thank you, René -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Bar height and hand pain... don't know what else to do...
Also, IME _a slight_ rotation of the bars to change the angles can make a huge difference in wrist issues. Seems especially true with Moustache bars. -- Jim Edgar cyclofi...@earthlink.net One Cog - Zero Excuses L/S T-shirt - Now available http://www.cyclofiend.com/stuff Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries - http://www.cyclofiend.com Current Classics - Cross Bikes Singlespeed - Working Bikes Send In Your Photos! - Here's how: http://www.cyclofiend.com/guidelines -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Bar height and hand pain... don't know what else to do...
Selle Anatomica designer has some very good adjustment guidelines to follow- Basically, saddle should sit so when seated and crank parallel with ground-edge of knee cap is directly above pedal spindle. With this position, stem can be adjusted/ changed to put tip of your nose approx. over the center of handle bars when seated with hands resting on tops of brake hoods. This will help a lot of your weight distribution and reach strains. All of these can be tweeked to preference. Hope this helps. On Feb 23, 11:13 pm, Rene Sterental orthie...@gmail.com wrote: I can't find a position where I will ride with no pain in my hands. I've removed neck and shoulder pain after switching to Rivendell bikes, but I can't get rid of the hand pain. Raising or lowering the bar doesn't seem to make a difference. If anything, it seems to me that raising it actually makes it worse. On both the AHH with Noodle bars and the Bombadil with Moustache bars, shortening the stem has made me feel the spot overall, as well as lowering the bars some. But the hand pain doesn't go away. Today I raised the M-bar on the Bombadil as far as the brake cables would allow (raised it about 1.5 cm higher than I had them) and if anything, it seems that the hand pain was worse. Looking at my profile on window reflections while riding, it seems to me that I went from a 45-50 degree forward lean to a 50-55 degree forward lean when putting my hands on the braking position. When my hands are on the edges of the bar where the shifters are, I'm more upright but there is still a forward lean. It seems to me that as long as I have a forward lean of some sort, there is some amount of pressure on my hands and that causes them to hurt. My explanation for the slightly less hand pain when the bars are a bit lower (still higher than the saddle) is that the 45 degree forward lean allows me to engage more back muscles as well as use my legs more effectively, and that raising the bar reduces the work from my muscles and therefore my hands bear more of my weight. They also seem to hurt less when riding gloveless on the M-bars. Can anybody offer more insight into what I might try doing to deal with the pain in my hands? Thank you, René -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Bar height and hand pain... don't know what else to do...
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 11:59 AM, Jeremy Till jeremy.t...@gmail.com wrote: Aesthetics (and Grant's writing on the Noodle) tells us that perfectly level tops are the best neutral position but i find that biomechanically i'm still sliding forward on a level bar, that only when it's slanted back do my hands feel nicely supported and i can ride with a light grip. Of course, things look a little funky with my brake levers pointed skywards but it sure is comfy! The bar angle note is very good - i don't know about you, but i tend to set up a bike that looks right and find that it doesn't always feel right while riding. Loosen up the bar clamp a bit so you can just move it and take a slow ride down an alley or quiet street and try different angles to get something that's closer to your natural wrist position. Like Cyclofiend, i rarely wear gloves unless it's a matter of the skin on my hands getting sore. I double-wrap my bars with rubber under cloth tape, otherwise the narrower diameter tends to make my hands tired. You might also look at something like Albatross bars, where you'd have a position upright enough to take almost all weight off your hands. -- Bill Connell St. Paul, MN -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Bar height and hand pain... don't know what else to do...
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Bill Connell bconn...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 11:59 AM, Jeremy Till jeremy.t...@gmail.com wrote: Aesthetics (and Grant's writing on the Noodle) tells us that perfectly level tops are the best neutral position but i find that biomechanically i'm still sliding forward on a level bar, that only when it's slanted back do my hands feel nicely supported and i can ride with a light grip. Of course, things look a little funky with my brake levers pointed skywards but it sure is comfy! The bar angle note is very good - i don't know about you, but i tend to set up a bike that looks right and find that it doesn't always feel right while riding. Loosen up the bar clamp a bit so you can just move it and take a slow ride down an alley or quiet street and try different angles to get something that's closer to your natural wrist position. Just to throw more dust into the air of this discussion, I also find small bar angle changes to make a big difference in hand comfort, but I am most comfortable with the *ends* of the hooks perfectly horizontal. YM, as they say, MV. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Bar height and hand pain... don't know what else to do...
If you can't find any positions that are comfortable, you need better advice than you can get off the internet. If it's as much as a problem as it sounds, your bicycling position may alleviate discomfort but it's not going to fix the problem. Taking most of the weight off by using Albatross bars may allow you to ride, though, while you seek professional medical help. jim mather walnut creek ca On Feb 24, 10:19 am, Bill Connell bconn...@gmail.com wrote: You might also look at something like Albatross bars, where you'd have a position upright enough to take almost all weight off your hands. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Bar height and hand pain... don't know what else to do...
On Wed, 2010-02-24 at 11:20 -0800, Jim M. wrote: If you can't find any positions that are comfortable, you need better advice than you can get off the internet. If it's as much as a problem as it sounds, your bicycling position may alleviate discomfort but it's not going to fix the problem. Taking most of the weight off by using Albatross bars may allow you to ride, though, while you seek professional medical help. I found I needed around 4 cm /more/ stem extension than I'd been using to get the weight off my hands. Also, I'm not convinced an Albatross style bar is a very good choice for getting weight and pressure off the hands. In almost all the cases I've tried (admittedly, North Road Raised rather than the genuine Nitto Albatross) that type of bar has been very uncomfortable in terms of hand pain for me. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Bar height and hand pain... don't know what else to do...
+1 on sliding the seat back as far as possible. If you have a Brooks and a seatpost with vaguely 'normal' setback, I'd urge you to try a seatpost with more setback. The S-83 appears to have a fair amount. Velo Orange sells a $50 one that was specifically designed to get more setback on short-railed saddles like the Brooks. Finally, I'd recommend that you make a conscious effort to get your sit-bones back as far as possible on the saddle. If that feels like it takes a real effort and if it feels like you soon slide back forward and have to readjust, then I'd add a +1 for saddle tilt to help you keep the sit bones back. I'd also recommend the following test. While you are riding on a flat in a straight line, it's my opinion that you should be able to easily ride with you body in EXACTLY the same position with your hand hovering 1cm above the handlebar (not touching it). If your body can't be there without your hands holding your body up, it doesn't fit. Lastly, addressing bar height, your brake cables shouldn't stop you from getting the bars higher if that's what you want to try. Don't hesitate to rip off the bar tape if it allows you to try something that might allow you to ride without pain. On Feb 24, 11:01 am, PATRICK MOORE bertin...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Bill Connell bconn...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 11:59 AM, Jeremy Till jeremy.t...@gmail.com wrote: Aesthetics (and Grant's writing on the Noodle) tells us that perfectly level tops are the best neutral position but i find that biomechanically i'm still sliding forward on a level bar, that only when it's slanted back do my hands feel nicely supported and i can ride with a light grip. Of course, things look a little funky with my brake levers pointed skywards but it sure is comfy! The bar angle note is very good - i don't know about you, but i tend to set up a bike that looks right and find that it doesn't always feel right while riding. Loosen up the bar clamp a bit so you can just move it and take a slow ride down an alley or quiet street and try different angles to get something that's closer to your natural wrist position. Just to throw more dust into the air of this discussion, I also find small bar angle changes to make a big difference in hand comfort, but I am most comfortable with the *ends* of the hooks perfectly horizontal. YM, as they say, MV. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Bar height and hand pain... don't know what else to do...
on 2/24/10 10:16 AM, muckum at toddjeffr...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Selle Anatomica designer has some very good adjustment guidelines to follow- Basically, saddle should sit so when seated and crank parallel with ground-edge of knee cap is directly above pedal spindle. This is known as KOPS - Knee Over Pedal Spindle - and is one of a few decent rules of thumb for establishing a _starting_ position on the bike. However, there has been some argument as to whether this is a causative or correlational phenomenon. There is an excellent article penned by Keith Bontrager called The Myth of KOPS which discusses another view much more thoroughly than we're likely to rehash here. Luckily, this was archived on Sheldon's site: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/kops.html As always, it's a good idea to make allowances for your flexibility, body structure, riding conditions, etc. - J -- Jim Edgar cyclofi...@earthlink.net Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries - http://www.cyclofiend.com Current Classics - Cross Bikes Singlespeed - Working Bikes Get your photos posted: http://www.cyclofiend.com/guidelines Then I sat up, wiped the water out of my eyes, and looked at my bike, and just like that I knew it was dead -- Robert McCammon, Boy's Life -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Bar height and hand pain... don't know what else to do...
Gotta agree with Steve here. On my recently sold Atlantis, set up with Albatross bars, did have the occasional bout of hand pain. Rene, I feel for you. Hand pain (numbness) made me give up riding for many years. Even now, it will flare up. The Rivendell summer gloves seem to be evenly padded and work for me. But maybe not for others? Spenco gloves (even the Ironman style) don't seem to work as well. Or they will work, but have to replace them every couple of months. Do run with my leather saddles fairly nose up. Helps get the butt back. Might be worth while to invest in some cable splitters. That way you could swap bars/stems and not have to fiddle too much with brakes and shifters. Good luck. And please let us know what solutions end up working for you. Eric Platt St. Paul, MN On Feb 24, 1:27�pm, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On Wed, 2010-02-24 at 11:20 -0800, Jim M. wrote: If you can't find any positions that are comfortable, you need better advice than you can get off the internet. If it's as much as a problem as it sounds, your bicycling position may alleviate discomfort but it's not going to fix the problem. Taking most of the weight off by using Albatross bars may allow you to ride, though, while you seek professional medical help. I found I needed around 4 cm /more/ stem extension than I'd been using to get the weight off my hands. Also, I'm not convinced an Albatross style bar is a very good choice for getting weight and pressure off the hands. �In almost all the cases I've tried (admittedly, North Road Raised rather than the genuine Nitto Albatross) that type of bar has been very uncomfortable in terms of hand pain for me. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Bar height and hand pain... don't know what else to do...
'Butt back' as so many have recommended may help take weight off of your hands, but may also require an extra degree of flexibility if it makes you stretch too far forward to meet the bars. I have been there and (after getting a detailed professional bike fitting) wound up moving back forward some and my hips are happier for it. If you do need to get further back, I have a VO post I'm not using and wouldn't mind selling. It's a nice post, it just has too much offset for my current needs. Saddle tilt is a (maybe THE) key factor. If the nose is down even slightly too far, you are constantly using your hands to push your butt back where it belongs and the result will be hand problems. Your saddle position should be neutral enough that your butt will stay put with no hands on the bars. Raising the nose to the point that you stay put properly may cause other problems. I am *very* sensitive to perineal pressure. Like a lot of men my age I have a degree of BPH, and have had some very painful bouts with acute prostatitis. It drove me to ride a recumbent for several years. For years before that I rode with the saddle pointed down to take the pressure off of the sensitive bits. The result? Numb fingers. Now I'm back to upright bikes, and paying lots of attention to saddle angle. I have had to face the fact that I can't ride a stock Brooks saddle with the nose up where it belongs. Too much perineal contact! A couple of my bikes now wear modern plasticky saddles with cutouts, and they do work. In fact, the Specialized Alias on my silly go-fast bike is surprisingly comfortable given it's minimal padding (but only for faster paced 'sporting' use, I wouldn't put one on a cruiser!). I have modified the two Brookses I ride regularly to look something like a simplified Imperial. My basic procedure is to use a 1/2 drill bit, drill out the three vent holes in the top of the saddle, connect the circles with more holes, add one more hole in front of the first vent hole, trim the edges smooth with a razor knife and burnish the cut edge with a little Proofide. I don't know if they will hold up in the long term, but the slot relieves enough pressure to let me tilt the nose up, my butt stays back on the saddle without effort, and both hands and nether bits are happier. I've laced the skirt of one of the saddles to help it keep its shape and may wind up lacing the second one as well. I also have some hundreds of miles on a Selle Anatomica, which features a cutout. It too needs careful tilt adjustment to work properly. I can't emphasize enough that hand problems can start at the saddle, so get that right before making any other drastic changes. It may be worth paying to a sympathetic professional fitter. It was for me. Bill On Feb 24, 11:49 am, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: +1 on sliding the seat back as far as possible. If you have a Brooks and a seatpost with vaguely 'normal' setback, I'd urge you to try a seatpost with more setback. The S-83 appears to have a fair amount. Velo Orange sells a $50 one that was specifically designed to get more setback on short-railed saddles like the Brooks. Finally, I'd recommend that you make a conscious effort to get your sit-bones back as far as possible on the saddle. If that feels like it takes a real effort and if it feels like you soon slide back forward and have to readjust, then I'd add a +1 for saddle tilt to help you keep the sit bones back. I'd also recommend the following test. While you are riding on a flat in a straight line, it's my opinion that you should be able to easily ride with you body in EXACTLY the same position with your hand hovering 1cm above the handlebar (not touching it). If your body can't be there without your hands holding your body up, it doesn't fit. Lastly, addressing bar height, your brake cables shouldn't stop you from getting the bars higher if that's what you want to try. Don't hesitate to rip off the bar tape if it allows you to try something that might allow you to ride without pain. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
