Re: [RBW] Re: GAH! It was the ______?!?
On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 3:13 PM, dougP wrote: > Rex: > > If you like 7 speed, Loose Screws is a good source. Stuff > comes'n'goes but they've had these 13-34 cassettes for a while now: > > > http://www.loosescrews.com/index.cgi?d=single&c=Cassette&sc=Complete%20Shimano&tc=7%20Speed&item_id=LS-8948WF&id=95664818798 > > I picked up one to try but haven't installed yet. I've never used one > of the Mega Range ones with the 24 to 34 jump; always seemed like a > long jump, especially when you really need it. > > Awesome, thanks! I strongly prefer 7 speed over 9 speed as it's always felt smoother and quieter to me than any 9 speed setup that I've ever owned/maintained. I think I'll order some of those and a spacer for my XT hub. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: GAH! It was the ______?!?
On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 12:00 AM, Benedikt wrote: > Were all the other parts of your drive train new when you did the > build? As I understand your post the chain was new. What about the > cranks, cassette? I'm sure the answer was probably yes but was the > chain cut to the right length? > > Ah, been off the list for a few days... lots of replies here waiting for me! :-) Yeah, it was all brand new. As for chain length, shortening it was one of the things that I tried, which did improve things a touch, but not completely. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: GAH! It was the ______?!?
The worst shifting I have ever experienced was with a brand new SRAM 9 spd cassette and chain. First I swapped the cassette for a good but used Ultegra and got only a marginal improvement. Then I replaced the chain with a wipperman conex and kazam, great shifting. Later I tried the new chain with the original SRAM cassette and found it worked OK. I would never again use either an SRAM or a Shimano chain. michael -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/-Zg2szR3tmMJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: GAH! It was the ______?!?
Rex: If you like 7 speed, Loose Screws is a good source. Stuff comes'n'goes but they've had these 13-34 cassettes for a while now: http://www.loosescrews.com/index.cgi?d=single&c=Cassette&sc=Complete%20Shimano&tc=7%20Speed&item_id=LS-8948WF&id=95664818798 I picked up one to try but haven't installed yet. I've never used one of the Mega Range ones with the 24 to 34 jump; always seemed like a long jump, especially when you really need it. dougP On Dec 22, 11:29 pm, Rex Kerr wrote: > I always found SRAM chains to be quieter on my 7 speed setups, so I > continued to use them as I transitioned to 9 speed. This experience has > made me consider looking for some 7 speed mega range cassettes. Found some > HG50 cassettes that do 13-34, with the big bailout jump to the 34, which is > what I always ran on my freewheels, so I might give one of those a try > later. I like 7 speed stuff. Overall it feels smoother and more durable, > which is worth more to me than the extra gears. > > Not sure if I'll bother with the SRAM chains anymore for 9 speed. All of > those Z9000 chains were super smooth and quiet, so maybe I'll try their new > X9 model chains which replaced the Z9000 to see if they're as good. Wish > I'd bought more of those $4 OE pulls, but I was afraid they'd be junk, so > now I'm out of them. > > Rex > > > > > > On Thursday, December 22, 2011, dougP wrote: > > Rex: > > > Glad you were able to finally track it down. It's interesting that > > the KMC that was years old & used outperformed the SRAM you had > > purchased new. Perhaps a bad chain? or bad batch? Unless the cost is > > silly expensive it may be interesting to try a new SRAM. Of course, > > you could also tell the shop your experience and come to some prior > > agreement on a return or exchange if a new one acts up like the one > > you've replaced. From the other responses, it looks like 9 speeds > > work better with same mfg chain & cogs. > > > At the risk of re-opening the debate about optimal number of speeds, > > my experience is all with 7 & 8 speeds. I generally use SRAM 8xx > > (whatever's on sale) chains in the $20 range. I've used cassettes by > > Shimano, Performance brand (maybe Sun Race?) and the Atlantis came > > with a Sun Race cassette. They've all worked pretty much the same, > > even with some of my goofy cog mixing'n'matching. The Shimano > > cassettes do last longer but there are few 8 speed choices these days. > > > dougP > > > On Dec 22, 4:35 pm, Rex Kerr wrote: > >> Ever since building up my AHH I've been struggling with mis-shifts and > >> noise in the drivetrain, details of which I've posted here a few times. > I > >> tried everything I could think of... even took it to Riv HQ to ask for > >> help... everything that'd make it better would only make it slightly > >> better, and half of that was probably placebo. I'd tried everything that > >> came to mind, except for one simple thing [I'd already tried the complex > >> stuff first]... I didn't try this one simple thing because I didn't have > a > >> compatible one in my parts inventory [yes, I have a parts inventory in my > >> home shop] to try, and didn't want to take one off another bike... So, I > >> suffered and suffered and lost the best ~1000 miles of my bike to this > pain > >> [no idea exactly how many miles, no speedo]... I really should have just > >> bought another part, since it's a wear part and all, but whatever... > > >> So, last night while out cleaning the drivetrain (since it'd gotten > >> particularly bad on my last ride home, so bad that I almost wanted to get > >> off and walk home). I finally just did it... I was hesitant, because I > >> didn't want to put a worn one and wear out my other newer parts, but I > >> measured the other bike's **CHAIN** for wear, and it was within > tolerance, > >> so I swapped them... IT'S SILENT NOW!!! I didn't miss a single shift on > >> the way to work this morning, and it was nearly silent!!! > > >> So question... how does a brand new PC971 chain perform so poorly? > >> I've never had such problems with SRAM chains before, and always > preferred > >> them over Shimano chains. The one that I swapped was a KMC Z-9000 that > I'd > >> purchased a number of years ago from a shop that was selling new OE pulls > >> for $4 (I wish now that I'd taken their entire inventory!! What a > >> deal!)... what could be wrong that would make it perform so poorly? > It's > >> been a long time, so I probably can't get my money back from the LBS > where > >> I bought it, but it'd be nice to know what to look for in the future! > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "RBW Owners Bunch" group.> To post to this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.> For more options, visit this > group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=
[RBW] Re: GAH! It was the ______?!?
I'm also ready to vote for slightly stiff link on a new chain. Might have one on a bike right now. Every oncest in a while get a little hiccup in the giddyup when pedaling. Not wear, as the chain is new (less than 200 miles) and not the cassette (used by me, but good per my LBS which checked it out). I have seen a couple of stiff links in SRAM chains. BTW, the best shifting I've had was on a 9 speed Shimano cassette (12-36) with a SRAM chain and old Shimano XT thumb shifter. It's probably going back on the same bike next summer. Running 1x8 on the bike for winter. Just because. Eric Platt St. Paul, MN On Dec 22, 7:48 pm, bionnaki wrote: > I have no problems with a 9-speed sram chain on all dura ace. > > perhaps there was a problem with the chain installation. stiff link? > > > > On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 7:35 PM, Joe Bartoe wrote: > > In my experience, yes, the SRAM chains work better on SRAM drivetrains > > than on Shimano drivetrains. I also find that on my Force and Red > > drivetrains that replacing the SRAM cassette and chain with Shimano > > Ultegra, quiets the drivetrain and improves shifting performance. > > > Joe > > > Joe Bartoe > > Synaptic Cycles Bicycle Rentals, Inc. > > email: j...@synapticcycles.com > > website:www.synapticcycles.com > > Twitter: @synapticcycles > > phone: 949-374-6079 > > > > Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 20:20:44 -0500 > > > Subject: Re: [RBW] GAH! It was the __?!? > > > From: stl...@gmail.com > > > To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com > > > > Begs the question--does the SRAM chain work better with a SRAM > > drivetrain? > > > > Steve > > > > On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 8:13 PM, Doug Way wrote: > > > > Hi Rex- > > > > > Debbie and I have had a similar problem twice before. Both times we > > were > > > > running an SRAM chain on a Shimano drivetrain (Debbie's old Atlantis > > and my > > > > Bike Friday). Can't tell you why, but I fixed the problem by putting a > > > > Shimano chain in place of the SRAM. In both cases, it was like yours, > > > > drivetrain was noisy, we had lots of missed shifts, etc. Deb's > > Atlantis had > > > > a Sugino crank, Shimano bar ends, and a Deore XT derailleur. My BF > > has a > > > > Shimano 105 triple crank, bar end shifters, and 105 triple rear > > derailleur. > > > > > Since that time, I've read a few reports (VeloNews) from bike mechanics > > > > about having funny shifting problems and fixing them by making sure > > they use > > > > a Shimano chain with Shimano drive trains. > > > > > Glad you fixed your problems. No, you haven't lost your mind. > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Doug Way > > > > Roadeo and Atlantis > > > > Under 1.5 feet of snow in Boulder, CO > > > > > On 12/22/11 5:35 PM, Rex Kerr wrote: > > > > >> Ever since building up my AHH I've been struggling with mis-shifts and > > > >> noise in the drivetrain, details of which I've posted here a few > > times. I > > > >> tried everything I could think of... even took it to Riv HQ to ask > > for > > > >> help... everything that'd make it better would only make it slightly > > better, > > > >> and half of that was probably placebo. I'd tried everything that > > came to > > > >> mind, except for one simple thing [I'd already tried the complex stuff > > > >> first]... I didn't try this one simple thing because I didn't have a > > > >> compatible one in my parts inventory [yes, I have a parts inventory > > in my > > > >> home shop] to try, and didn't want to take one off another bike... > > So, I > > > >> suffered and suffered and lost the best ~1000 miles of my bike to > > this pain > > > >> [no idea exactly how many miles, no speedo]... I really should have > > just > > > >> bought another part, since it's a wear part and all, but whatever... > > > > >> So, last night while out cleaning the drivetrain (since it'd gotten > > > >> particularly bad on my last ride home, so bad that I almost wanted to > > get > > > >> off and walk home). I finally just did it... I was hesitant, because > > I > > > >> didn't want to put a worn one and wear out my other newer parts, but I > > > >> measured the other bike's **CHAIN** for wear, and it was within > > tolerance, > > > >> so I swapped them... IT'S SILENT NOW!!! I didn't miss a single shift > > on the > > > >> way to work this morning, and it was nearly silent!!! > > > > >> So question... how does a brand new PC971 chain perform so poorly? > > > >> I've never had such problems with SRAM chains before, and always > > preferred > > > >> them over Shimano chains. The one that I swapped was a KMC Z-9000 > > that I'd > > > >> purchased a number of years ago from a shop that was selling new OE > > pulls > > > >> for $4 (I wish now that I'd taken their entire inventory!! What a > > deal!)... > > > >> what could be wrong that would make it perform so poorly? It's been > > a long > > > >> time, so I probably can't get my money back from the LBS where I > > bought it, > > > >> but it'd be nice to know what to look for in the fu
[RBW] Re: GAH! It was the ______?!?
Were all the other parts of your drive train new when you did the build? As I understand your post the chain was new. What about the cranks, cassette? I'm sure the answer was probably yes but was the chain cut to the right length? On Dec 22, 5:13 pm, Doug Way wrote: > Hi Rex- > > Debbie and I have had a similar problem twice before. Both times we > were running an SRAM chain on a Shimano drivetrain (Debbie's old > Atlantis and my Bike Friday). Can't tell you why, but I fixed the > problem by putting a Shimano chain in place of the SRAM. In both cases, > it was like yours, drivetrain was noisy, we had lots of missed shifts, > etc. Deb's Atlantis had a Sugino crank, Shimano bar ends, and a Deore > XT derailleur. My BF has a Shimano 105 triple crank, bar end shifters, > and 105 triple rear derailleur. > > Since that time, I've read a few reports (VeloNews) from bike mechanics > about having funny shifting problems and fixing them by making sure they > use a Shimano chain with Shimano drive trains. > > Glad you fixed your problems. No, you haven't lost your mind. > > Best regards, > Doug Way > Roadeo and Atlantis > Under 1.5 feet of snow in Boulder, CO > > On 12/22/11 5:35 PM, Rex Kerr wrote: > > > > > > > > > Ever since building up my AHH I've been struggling with mis-shifts and > > noise in the drivetrain, details of which I've posted here a few > > times. I tried everything I could think of... even took it to Riv HQ > > to ask for help... everything that'd make it better would only make it > > slightly better, and half of that was probably placebo. I'd tried > > everything that came to mind, except for one simple thing [I'd already > > tried the complex stuff first]... I didn't try this one simple thing > > because I didn't have a compatible one in my parts inventory [yes, I > > have a parts inventory in my home shop] to try, and didn't want to > > take one off another bike... So, I suffered and suffered and lost the > > best ~1000 miles of my bike to this pain [no idea exactly how many > > miles, no speedo]... I really should have just bought another part, > > since it's a wear part and all, but whatever... > > > So, last night while out cleaning the drivetrain (since it'd gotten > > particularly bad on my last ride home, so bad that I almost wanted to > > get off and walk home). I finally just did it... I was hesitant, > > because I didn't want to put a worn one and wear out my other newer > > parts, but I measured the other bike's **CHAIN** for wear, and it was > > within tolerance, so I swapped them... IT'S SILENT NOW!!! I didn't > > miss a single shift on the way to work this morning, and it was nearly > > silent!!! > > > So question... how does a brand new PC971 chain perform so poorly? > > I've never had such problems with SRAM chains before, and always > > preferred them over Shimano chains. The one that I swapped was a KMC > > Z-9000 that I'd purchased a number of years ago from a shop that was > > selling new OE pulls for $4 (I wish now that I'd taken their entire > > inventory!! What a deal!)... what could be wrong that would make it > > perform so poorly? It's been a long time, so I probably can't get my > > money back from the LBS where I bought it, but it'd be nice to know > > what to look for in the future! > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: GAH! It was the ______?!?
I always found SRAM chains to be quieter on my 7 speed setups, so I continued to use them as I transitioned to 9 speed. This experience has made me consider looking for some 7 speed mega range cassettes. Found some HG50 cassettes that do 13-34, with the big bailout jump to the 34, which is what I always ran on my freewheels, so I might give one of those a try later. I like 7 speed stuff. Overall it feels smoother and more durable, which is worth more to me than the extra gears. Not sure if I'll bother with the SRAM chains anymore for 9 speed. All of those Z9000 chains were super smooth and quiet, so maybe I'll try their new X9 model chains which replaced the Z9000 to see if they're as good. Wish I'd bought more of those $4 OE pulls, but I was afraid they'd be junk, so now I'm out of them. Rex On Thursday, December 22, 2011, dougP wrote: > Rex: > > Glad you were able to finally track it down. It's interesting that > the KMC that was years old & used outperformed the SRAM you had > purchased new. Perhaps a bad chain? or bad batch? Unless the cost is > silly expensive it may be interesting to try a new SRAM. Of course, > you could also tell the shop your experience and come to some prior > agreement on a return or exchange if a new one acts up like the one > you've replaced. From the other responses, it looks like 9 speeds > work better with same mfg chain & cogs. > > At the risk of re-opening the debate about optimal number of speeds, > my experience is all with 7 & 8 speeds. I generally use SRAM 8xx > (whatever's on sale) chains in the $20 range. I've used cassettes by > Shimano, Performance brand (maybe Sun Race?) and the Atlantis came > with a Sun Race cassette. They've all worked pretty much the same, > even with some of my goofy cog mixing'n'matching. The Shimano > cassettes do last longer but there are few 8 speed choices these days. > > dougP > > > > On Dec 22, 4:35 pm, Rex Kerr wrote: >> Ever since building up my AHH I've been struggling with mis-shifts and >> noise in the drivetrain, details of which I've posted here a few times. I >> tried everything I could think of... even took it to Riv HQ to ask for >> help... everything that'd make it better would only make it slightly >> better, and half of that was probably placebo. I'd tried everything that >> came to mind, except for one simple thing [I'd already tried the complex >> stuff first]... I didn't try this one simple thing because I didn't have a >> compatible one in my parts inventory [yes, I have a parts inventory in my >> home shop] to try, and didn't want to take one off another bike... So, I >> suffered and suffered and lost the best ~1000 miles of my bike to this pain >> [no idea exactly how many miles, no speedo]... I really should have just >> bought another part, since it's a wear part and all, but whatever... >> >> So, last night while out cleaning the drivetrain (since it'd gotten >> particularly bad on my last ride home, so bad that I almost wanted to get >> off and walk home). I finally just did it... I was hesitant, because I >> didn't want to put a worn one and wear out my other newer parts, but I >> measured the other bike's **CHAIN** for wear, and it was within tolerance, >> so I swapped them... IT'S SILENT NOW!!! I didn't miss a single shift on >> the way to work this morning, and it was nearly silent!!! >> >> So question... how does a brand new PC971 chain perform so poorly? >> I've never had such problems with SRAM chains before, and always preferred >> them over Shimano chains. The one that I swapped was a KMC Z-9000 that I'd >> purchased a number of years ago from a shop that was selling new OE pulls >> for $4 (I wish now that I'd taken their entire inventory!! What a >> deal!)... what could be wrong that would make it perform so poorly? It's >> been a long time, so I probably can't get my money back from the LBS where >> I bought it, but it'd be nice to know what to look for in the future! > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: GAH! It was the ______?!?
Rex: Glad you were able to finally track it down. It's interesting that the KMC that was years old & used outperformed the SRAM you had purchased new. Perhaps a bad chain? or bad batch? Unless the cost is silly expensive it may be interesting to try a new SRAM. Of course, you could also tell the shop your experience and come to some prior agreement on a return or exchange if a new one acts up like the one you've replaced. From the other responses, it looks like 9 speeds work better with same mfg chain & cogs. At the risk of re-opening the debate about optimal number of speeds, my experience is all with 7 & 8 speeds. I generally use SRAM 8xx (whatever's on sale) chains in the $20 range. I've used cassettes by Shimano, Performance brand (maybe Sun Race?) and the Atlantis came with a Sun Race cassette. They've all worked pretty much the same, even with some of my goofy cog mixing'n'matching. The Shimano cassettes do last longer but there are few 8 speed choices these days. dougP On Dec 22, 4:35 pm, Rex Kerr wrote: > Ever since building up my AHH I've been struggling with mis-shifts and > noise in the drivetrain, details of which I've posted here a few times. I > tried everything I could think of... even took it to Riv HQ to ask for > help... everything that'd make it better would only make it slightly > better, and half of that was probably placebo. I'd tried everything that > came to mind, except for one simple thing [I'd already tried the complex > stuff first]... I didn't try this one simple thing because I didn't have a > compatible one in my parts inventory [yes, I have a parts inventory in my > home shop] to try, and didn't want to take one off another bike... So, I > suffered and suffered and lost the best ~1000 miles of my bike to this pain > [no idea exactly how many miles, no speedo]... I really should have just > bought another part, since it's a wear part and all, but whatever... > > So, last night while out cleaning the drivetrain (since it'd gotten > particularly bad on my last ride home, so bad that I almost wanted to get > off and walk home). I finally just did it... I was hesitant, because I > didn't want to put a worn one and wear out my other newer parts, but I > measured the other bike's **CHAIN** for wear, and it was within tolerance, > so I swapped them... IT'S SILENT NOW!!! I didn't miss a single shift on > the way to work this morning, and it was nearly silent!!! > > So question... how does a brand new PC971 chain perform so poorly? > I've never had such problems with SRAM chains before, and always preferred > them over Shimano chains. The one that I swapped was a KMC Z-9000 that I'd > purchased a number of years ago from a shop that was selling new OE pulls > for $4 (I wish now that I'd taken their entire inventory!! What a > deal!)... what could be wrong that would make it perform so poorly? It's > been a long time, so I probably can't get my money back from the LBS where > I bought it, but it'd be nice to know what to look for in the future! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
