[RBW] Re: Intro post, pics of my RIvs, and a Homer fit question

[John Bokman]

Ted, thanks for that handy tip concerning fit. My Sam fits just how you 
describe: Elbow at saddle nose, fingertips just brushing the bars. I'd 
never measured this way before, but knew immediately when I swapped a 7 cm 
stem from the original 10cm stem that it was a vast improvement. I'd always 
felt that my other bike (not a riv) was just a tad too long, also. By 
employing your method, I have since shortened the stem (7cm from 9cm). 
Noticeable improvement for me.

John
On Thursday, February 15, 2024 at 8:42:40 AM UTC-8 Ted Durant wrote:

> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 1:20:53 PM UTC-8 eitanz...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
> That said, as beautiful as this bike is, I haven't been able to get 
> comfortable on it. I am too stretched out. 
>
>
> Yup, that is a beautiful bike! I know the feeling of being too stretched 
> out, even as someone who is naturally quite flexible and likes to ride in a 
> pretty low back position. My Sams are set up with a shorter reach than my 
> other bikes and I have found I like it. Contrary to the others and to 
> "conventional wisdom", I have not found saddle fore-aft position to be so 
> critical that I have to nail it to the mm. I am comfortable and feel 
> similarly powerful over a range of 15-20mm. My Sams have much shallower 
> seat tube angles than my other bikes, and I have the saddles pushed forward 
> a bit, but not a lot. Like a couple of other posters, I wouldn't hesitate 
> to go to an 8 or even 7cm stem to get the reach that you like. I use my 
> personal cubit to judge reach - put your elbow against the front of the 
> saddle and see where your finger tips lie relative to the handlebars. Most 
> my bikes have the bars about 20mm ahead of my fingers. On my Sams my 
> fingers just touch the bars.
>
> As others have pointed out, Noodle bars have a pretty good reach. In 
> addition, the TRP brake lever hoods are looong. The combined effect is 
> quite a bit of extra reach. I very much like having lots of reach and drop 
> on the bars so my position varies a lot as I move my hands. But it does 
> mean you need a shorter stem so the on-the-hoods position feels neutral.
>
> Ted Durant
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Intro post, pics of my RIvs, and a Homer fit question

[Ted Durant]

On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 1:20:53 PM UTC-8 eitanz...@gmail.com 
wrote:

That said, as beautiful as this bike is, I haven't been able to get 
comfortable on it. I am too stretched out. 


Yup, that is a beautiful bike! I know the feeling of being too stretched 
out, even as someone who is naturally quite flexible and likes to ride in a 
pretty low back position. My Sams are set up with a shorter reach than my 
other bikes and I have found I like it. Contrary to the others and to 
"conventional wisdom", I have not found saddle fore-aft position to be so 
critical that I have to nail it to the mm. I am comfortable and feel 
similarly powerful over a range of 15-20mm. My Sams have much shallower 
seat tube angles than my other bikes, and I have the saddles pushed forward 
a bit, but not a lot. Like a couple of other posters, I wouldn't hesitate 
to go to an 8 or even 7cm stem to get the reach that you like. I use my 
personal cubit to judge reach - put your elbow against the front of the 
saddle and see where your finger tips lie relative to the handlebars. Most 
my bikes have the bars about 20mm ahead of my fingers. On my Sams my 
fingers just touch the bars.

As others have pointed out, Noodle bars have a pretty good reach. In 
addition, the TRP brake lever hoods are looong. The combined effect is 
quite a bit of extra reach. I very much like having lots of reach and drop 
on the bars so my position varies a lot as I move my hands. But it does 
mean you need a shorter stem so the on-the-hoods position feels neutral.

Ted Durant

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Re: [RBW] Re: Intro post, pics of my RIvs, and a Homer fit question

[Toshi Takeuchi]

If you are going 31.8, then Salsa Cowbells go wider and have 68 mm reach.
I have those bars on my Roadeo and the slight bit of flare makes it more
comfortable for me.
https://www.salsacycles.com/gear/cowbell


Toshi


On Sat, Feb 10, 2024 at 2:18 PM Elisabeth Sherwood <
elisabeth.sherw...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Oh, btw, for those who need to find something with absolutely the shortest
> reach possible (and are okay with black handlebars and a 31.8mm handlebar
> clamp), Specialized "Short Reach" bars have a 65mm reach!  (And the rest of
> the lovely shape as the Hover and Shallow Bend handlebars...)  They only
> come in 36cm, 38cm, and 40cm widths (which probably works fine for most
> people who need ridiculously short-reach bars!)
>
>
> https://www.specialized.com/us/en/short-reach-handlebars/p/156040?color=230922-156040
>
> Cheers!
>
> Liz
> Washington DC
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Intro post, pics of my RIvs, and a Homer fit question

[Garth]

Zipp's Service Course XPLR 70 come in silver and are short reach/shallow 
drop. (70/115). I chose this bar as I'm using a long body Tektro brake 
lever(341) and my frames have a longer than usual reach. So with this 
riding with my hands on the top/middles is as entirely comfortable as the 
hoods and the drops as I still have lots of reach to stretch out in all 
positions. The middle is oval shaped and has a slight 4-5d flare back to 
it. Subtle but noticeable. I just can't see going back to a rounded middle 
type of bar. I also bought a Ritchey Skyline Comp(black only) which has a 
similar ergo top and small drop/reach, but haven't used them yet. These 
change in reach/drop slightly per width. 

Zipp has some some other silver drop bars too. I'd like to try them all, 
but you know how that goes .. 

The Tektro 341 "compact" lever has the same full body as the 340, but the 
lever itself is shaped different so it's easier to grab in the drops. 
They're marketed for small-er hands, but I find they mate perfectly with 
shallow drop bars, and I have XL hands. I'm not a fan of the bent/offset 
levers though as I think it flares out too much. It seems a solution to a 
non-existent problem, and creates a problem in doing so, doh ! 

As for the saddle position, sheesh. Well everything I ever thought about 
positioning oneself over the BB has been shown to be folly, so about all I 
can say is if you get the urge to move forward, just do it and see what 
happens. :-)


On Saturday, February 10, 2024 at 8:23:11 PM UTC-5 ian m wrote:

> If you, like me, prefer Nitto to all alternatives check out the M151. I 
> believe Soma sells that model as well.
>
> On Saturday, February 10, 2024 at 5:58:50 PM UTC-5 eitanz...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> You guys have given me multiple good handlebar suggestions! I think I 
>> will rule out the Specialized bars though, as they seem to come in black 
>> only. That's fine for the Breezer but for this bike, I really want silver. 
>>  Looks like both the Ritchey Venturemax and VO Randonneur are both 31.8mm 
>> only. The Soma Highway One  is available  in 26mm--so by process of 
>> elimination may be the winner...
>>
>> --Eitan
>> Los Angeles
>>
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, February 10, 2024 at 2:18:22 PM UTC-8 Elisabeth Sherwood 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Oh, btw, for those who need to find something with absolutely the 
>>> shortest reach possible (and are okay with black handlebars and a 31.8mm 
>>> handlebar clamp), Specialized "Short Reach" bars have a 65mm reach!  (And 
>>> the rest of the lovely shape as the Hover and Shallow Bend handlebars...)  
>>> They only come in 36cm, 38cm, and 40cm widths (which probably works fine 
>>> for most people who need ridiculously short-reach bars!)
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.specialized.com/us/en/short-reach-handlebars/p/156040?color=230922-156040
>>>
>>> Cheers!
>>>
>>> Liz 
>>> Washington DC
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Saturday, February 10, 2024 at 5:13:57 PM UTC-5 Elisabeth Sherwood 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I second Patrick's thoughts on the saddle position -- don't adjust for 
 reach using the saddle position! Rather, get the saddle where you want it 
 and then figure out how to get the bars in the right position.

 But, re. the Specialized Hover bars, don't forget that they feature 
 15mm of rise, while Eitan is finding that his handlebars are already too 
 high!

 The Specialized Expert Alloy Shallow Bend bar features the same shape 
 and 75mm reach of the Hover, but without the rise...  But it remains less 
 than ideal on a Riv because it's available only in black and with a 31.8mm 
 clamp diameter.

 For that reason, I always return to the Soma Highway One handlebar!  
 Available in silver, and in 26.0mm clamp diameters! (Same 75mm reach as 
 the 
 Specialized bars...)

 Liz
 Washington, DC



 On Saturday, February 10, 2024 at 2:27:41 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Ethan: Two suggestions:
>
> 1. Don't use saddle adjustment to adjust your bar. Get your saddle 
> where it should be for greatest comfort and pedaling efficiency -- saddle 
> height and setback in relation to the bottom bracket or crank axle is 
> where 
> I start my setup -- and then determine from saddle position where your 
> bar 
> should be, and choose stem and bar to suit.
>
> 2. For the ultimate in shortness and shallowness in a drop bar 
> (narrowness too, it seems), take a look at the Specialized Hover bar: 
> https://www.specialized.com/us/en/hover-expert-alloy-handlebars--15mm-rise/p/156001?color=230548-156001
>
> It's ugly but it has essentially no ramps because the reach is so 
> short and it has a very shallow drop *with* a 15 mm rise at the stem 
> clamp. I used one of these on my erstwhile Medium 2012 Monocog (gave it 
> to 
> a friend) to get a drop bar more or less comfortable on a frame with (by 
> my 
> roa

Re: [RBW] Re: Intro post, pics of my RIvs, and a Homer fit question

[ian m]

If you, like me, prefer Nitto to all alternatives check out the M151. I 
believe Soma sells that model as well.

On Saturday, February 10, 2024 at 5:58:50 PM UTC-5 eitanz...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> You guys have given me multiple good handlebar suggestions! I think I will 
> rule out the Specialized bars though, as they seem to come in black only. 
> That's fine for the Breezer but for this bike, I really want silver.  Looks 
> like both the Ritchey Venturemax and VO Randonneur are both 31.8mm only. 
> The Soma Highway One  is available  in 26mm--so by process of elimination 
> may be the winner...
>
> --Eitan
> Los Angeles
>
>
>
> On Saturday, February 10, 2024 at 2:18:22 PM UTC-8 Elisabeth Sherwood 
> wrote:
>
>> Oh, btw, for those who need to find something with absolutely the 
>> shortest reach possible (and are okay with black handlebars and a 31.8mm 
>> handlebar clamp), Specialized "Short Reach" bars have a 65mm reach!  (And 
>> the rest of the lovely shape as the Hover and Shallow Bend handlebars...)  
>> They only come in 36cm, 38cm, and 40cm widths (which probably works fine 
>> for most people who need ridiculously short-reach bars!)
>>
>>
>> https://www.specialized.com/us/en/short-reach-handlebars/p/156040?color=230922-156040
>>
>> Cheers!
>>
>> Liz 
>> Washington DC
>>
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, February 10, 2024 at 5:13:57 PM UTC-5 Elisabeth Sherwood 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I second Patrick's thoughts on the saddle position -- don't adjust for 
>>> reach using the saddle position! Rather, get the saddle where you want it 
>>> and then figure out how to get the bars in the right position.
>>>
>>> But, re. the Specialized Hover bars, don't forget that they feature 15mm 
>>> of rise, while Eitan is finding that his handlebars are already too high!
>>>
>>> The Specialized Expert Alloy Shallow Bend bar features the same shape 
>>> and 75mm reach of the Hover, but without the rise...  But it remains less 
>>> than ideal on a Riv because it's available only in black and with a 31.8mm 
>>> clamp diameter.
>>>
>>> For that reason, I always return to the Soma Highway One handlebar!  
>>> Available in silver, and in 26.0mm clamp diameters! (Same 75mm reach as the 
>>> Specialized bars...)
>>>
>>> Liz
>>> Washington, DC
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Saturday, February 10, 2024 at 2:27:41 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 Ethan: Two suggestions:

 1. Don't use saddle adjustment to adjust your bar. Get your saddle 
 where it should be for greatest comfort and pedaling efficiency -- saddle 
 height and setback in relation to the bottom bracket or crank axle is 
 where 
 I start my setup -- and then determine from saddle position where your bar 
 should be, and choose stem and bar to suit.

 2. For the ultimate in shortness and shallowness in a drop bar 
 (narrowness too, it seems), take a look at the Specialized Hover bar: 
 https://www.specialized.com/us/en/hover-expert-alloy-handlebars--15mm-rise/p/156001?color=230548-156001

 It's ugly but it has essentially no ramps because the reach is so short 
 and it has a very shallow drop *with* a 15 mm rise at the stem clamp. 
 I used one of these on my erstwhile Medium 2012 Monocog (gave it to a 
 friend) to get a drop bar more or less comfortable on a frame with (by my 
 road standard) an immensely too long top tube (59.6 cm versus my preferred 
 56 or 57 cm). I tried it with several stems (expensive even with generic 
 MVS or whatever they were stems), going from 17* 9 cm to 30 or 35* 7 cm. 
 Still a wee bit far but much, much better. I went thru this bar and stem 
 contortion because even a Hover bar (mine was 44 cm) a cm or 2 too far 
 away 
 was better than any non-drop bar I could find.


 On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 8:14:49 PM UTC-5 Ethan K wrote:
 ...  I already have the seat forward on the rails, btw. I will swap the 
 stem this weekend and see how that goes. Next  would be  handlebars, going 
 shorter reach and also narrower. (sounds like I shouldn't be afraid of 
 going even shorter.) I'm currently running a 46cm Noodle, which feels wide 
 in addition to long. When I swapped bars on the Breezer, I went with 
 shorter AND narrower, going from 44-42, and both of those changes helped a 
 lot.

>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Intro post, pics of my RIvs, and a Homer fit question

[Ethan K]

You guys have given me multiple good handlebar suggestions! I think I will 
rule out the Specialized bars though, as they seem to come in black only. 
That's fine for the Breezer but for this bike, I really want silver.  Looks 
like both the Ritchey Venturemax and VO Randonneur are both 31.8mm only. 
The Soma Highway One  is available  in 26mm--so by process of elimination 
may be the winner...

--Eitan
Los Angeles



On Saturday, February 10, 2024 at 2:18:22 PM UTC-8 Elisabeth Sherwood wrote:

> Oh, btw, for those who need to find something with absolutely the shortest 
> reach possible (and are okay with black handlebars and a 31.8mm handlebar 
> clamp), Specialized "Short Reach" bars have a 65mm reach!  (And the rest of 
> the lovely shape as the Hover and Shallow Bend handlebars...)  They only 
> come in 36cm, 38cm, and 40cm widths (which probably works fine for most 
> people who need ridiculously short-reach bars!)
>
>
> https://www.specialized.com/us/en/short-reach-handlebars/p/156040?color=230922-156040
>
> Cheers!
>
> Liz 
> Washington DC
>
>
>
> On Saturday, February 10, 2024 at 5:13:57 PM UTC-5 Elisabeth Sherwood 
> wrote:
>
>> I second Patrick's thoughts on the saddle position -- don't adjust for 
>> reach using the saddle position! Rather, get the saddle where you want it 
>> and then figure out how to get the bars in the right position.
>>
>> But, re. the Specialized Hover bars, don't forget that they feature 15mm 
>> of rise, while Eitan is finding that his handlebars are already too high!
>>
>> The Specialized Expert Alloy Shallow Bend bar features the same shape and 
>> 75mm reach of the Hover, but without the rise...  But it remains less than 
>> ideal on a Riv because it's available only in black and with a 31.8mm clamp 
>> diameter.
>>
>> For that reason, I always return to the Soma Highway One handlebar!  
>> Available in silver, and in 26.0mm clamp diameters! (Same 75mm reach as the 
>> Specialized bars...)
>>
>> Liz
>> Washington, DC
>>
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, February 10, 2024 at 2:27:41 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Ethan: Two suggestions:
>>>
>>> 1. Don't use saddle adjustment to adjust your bar. Get your saddle where 
>>> it should be for greatest comfort and pedaling efficiency -- saddle height 
>>> and setback in relation to the bottom bracket or crank axle is where I 
>>> start my setup -- and then determine from saddle position where your bar 
>>> should be, and choose stem and bar to suit.
>>>
>>> 2. For the ultimate in shortness and shallowness in a drop bar 
>>> (narrowness too, it seems), take a look at the Specialized Hover bar: 
>>> https://www.specialized.com/us/en/hover-expert-alloy-handlebars--15mm-rise/p/156001?color=230548-156001
>>>
>>> It's ugly but it has essentially no ramps because the reach is so short 
>>> and it has a very shallow drop *with* a 15 mm rise at the stem clamp. I 
>>> used one of these on my erstwhile Medium 2012 Monocog (gave it to a friend) 
>>> to get a drop bar more or less comfortable on a frame with (by my road 
>>> standard) an immensely too long top tube (59.6 cm versus my preferred 56 or 
>>> 57 cm). I tried it with several stems (expensive even with generic MVS or 
>>> whatever they were stems), going from 17* 9 cm to 30 or 35* 7 cm. Still a 
>>> wee bit far but much, much better. I went thru this bar and stem contortion 
>>> because even a Hover bar (mine was 44 cm) a cm or 2 too far away was better 
>>> than any non-drop bar I could find.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 8:14:49 PM UTC-5 Ethan K wrote:
>>> ...  I already have the seat forward on the rails, btw. I will swap the 
>>> stem this weekend and see how that goes. Next  would be  handlebars, going 
>>> shorter reach and also narrower. (sounds like I shouldn't be afraid of 
>>> going even shorter.) I'm currently running a 46cm Noodle, which feels wide 
>>> in addition to long. When I swapped bars on the Breezer, I went with 
>>> shorter AND narrower, going from 44-42, and both of those changes helped a 
>>> lot.
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Intro post, pics of my RIvs, and a Homer fit question

[Elisabeth Sherwood]

Oh, btw, for those who need to find something with absolutely the shortest 
reach possible (and are okay with black handlebars and a 31.8mm handlebar 
clamp), Specialized "Short Reach" bars have a 65mm reach!  (And the rest of 
the lovely shape as the Hover and Shallow Bend handlebars...)  They only 
come in 36cm, 38cm, and 40cm widths (which probably works fine for most 
people who need ridiculously short-reach bars!)

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/short-reach-handlebars/p/156040?color=230922-156040

Cheers!

Liz 
Washington DC



On Saturday, February 10, 2024 at 5:13:57 PM UTC-5 Elisabeth Sherwood wrote:

> I second Patrick's thoughts on the saddle position -- don't adjust for 
> reach using the saddle position! Rather, get the saddle where you want it 
> and then figure out how to get the bars in the right position.
>
> But, re. the Specialized Hover bars, don't forget that they feature 15mm 
> of rise, while Eitan is finding that his handlebars are already too high!
>
> The Specialized Expert Alloy Shallow Bend bar features the same shape and 
> 75mm reach of the Hover, but without the rise...  But it remains less than 
> ideal on a Riv because it's available only in black and with a 31.8mm clamp 
> diameter.
>
> For that reason, I always return to the Soma Highway One handlebar!  
> Available in silver, and in 26.0mm clamp diameters! (Same 75mm reach as the 
> Specialized bars...)
>
> Liz
> Washington, DC
>
>
>
> On Saturday, February 10, 2024 at 2:27:41 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Ethan: Two suggestions:
>>
>> 1. Don't use saddle adjustment to adjust your bar. Get your saddle where 
>> it should be for greatest comfort and pedaling efficiency -- saddle height 
>> and setback in relation to the bottom bracket or crank axle is where I 
>> start my setup -- and then determine from saddle position where your bar 
>> should be, and choose stem and bar to suit.
>>
>> 2. For the ultimate in shortness and shallowness in a drop bar 
>> (narrowness too, it seems), take a look at the Specialized Hover bar: 
>> https://www.specialized.com/us/en/hover-expert-alloy-handlebars--15mm-rise/p/156001?color=230548-156001
>>
>> It's ugly but it has essentially no ramps because the reach is so short 
>> and it has a very shallow drop *with* a 15 mm rise at the stem clamp. I 
>> used one of these on my erstwhile Medium 2012 Monocog (gave it to a friend) 
>> to get a drop bar more or less comfortable on a frame with (by my road 
>> standard) an immensely too long top tube (59.6 cm versus my preferred 56 or 
>> 57 cm). I tried it with several stems (expensive even with generic MVS or 
>> whatever they were stems), going from 17* 9 cm to 30 or 35* 7 cm. Still a 
>> wee bit far but much, much better. I went thru this bar and stem contortion 
>> because even a Hover bar (mine was 44 cm) a cm or 2 too far away was better 
>> than any non-drop bar I could find.
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 8:14:49 PM UTC-5 Ethan K wrote:
>> ...  I already have the seat forward on the rails, btw. I will swap the 
>> stem this weekend and see how that goes. Next  would be  handlebars, going 
>> shorter reach and also narrower. (sounds like I shouldn't be afraid of 
>> going even shorter.) I'm currently running a 46cm Noodle, which feels wide 
>> in addition to long. When I swapped bars on the Breezer, I went with 
>> shorter AND narrower, going from 44-42, and both of those changes helped a 
>> lot.
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Intro post, pics of my RIvs, and a Homer fit question

[Elisabeth Sherwood]

I second Patrick's thoughts on the saddle position -- don't adjust for 
reach using the saddle position! Rather, get the saddle where you want it 
and then figure out how to get the bars in the right position.

But, re. the Specialized Hover bars, don't forget that they feature 15mm of 
rise, while Eitan is finding that his handlebars are already too high!

The Specialized Expert Alloy Shallow Bend bar features the same shape and 
75mm reach of the Hover, but without the rise...  But it remains less than 
ideal on a Riv because it's available only in black and with a 31.8mm clamp 
diameter.

For that reason, I always return to the Soma Highway One handlebar!  
Available in silver, and in 26.0mm clamp diameters! (Same 75mm reach as the 
Specialized bars...)

Liz
Washington, DC



On Saturday, February 10, 2024 at 2:27:41 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Ethan: Two suggestions:
>
> 1. Don't use saddle adjustment to adjust your bar. Get your saddle where 
> it should be for greatest comfort and pedaling efficiency -- saddle height 
> and setback in relation to the bottom bracket or crank axle is where I 
> start my setup -- and then determine from saddle position where your bar 
> should be, and choose stem and bar to suit.
>
> 2. For the ultimate in shortness and shallowness in a drop bar (narrowness 
> too, it seems), take a look at the Specialized Hover bar: 
> https://www.specialized.com/us/en/hover-expert-alloy-handlebars--15mm-rise/p/156001?color=230548-156001
>
> It's ugly but it has essentially no ramps because the reach is so short 
> and it has a very shallow drop *with* a 15 mm rise at the stem clamp. I 
> used one of these on my erstwhile Medium 2012 Monocog (gave it to a friend) 
> to get a drop bar more or less comfortable on a frame with (by my road 
> standard) an immensely too long top tube (59.6 cm versus my preferred 56 or 
> 57 cm). I tried it with several stems (expensive even with generic MVS or 
> whatever they were stems), going from 17* 9 cm to 30 or 35* 7 cm. Still a 
> wee bit far but much, much better. I went thru this bar and stem contortion 
> because even a Hover bar (mine was 44 cm) a cm or 2 too far away was better 
> than any non-drop bar I could find.
>
>
> On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 8:14:49 PM UTC-5 Ethan K wrote:
> ...  I already have the seat forward on the rails, btw. I will swap the 
> stem this weekend and see how that goes. Next  would be  handlebars, going 
> shorter reach and also narrower. (sounds like I shouldn't be afraid of 
> going even shorter.) I'm currently running a 46cm Noodle, which feels wide 
> in addition to long. When I swapped bars on the Breezer, I went with 
> shorter AND narrower, going from 44-42, and both of those changes helped a 
> lot.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Intro post, pics of my RIvs, and a Homer fit question

[Chris Fly]

Agree with Patrick on the seat setback, you don’t want to futz with that once it’s set where you need it based on only the saddle and not the reach.. And the Specialized bars are nice, I run those on two of my non-Riv bikes.. Ritchey also makes the Ergomax bars that are similar to the Spec. bars, but have a bit of backsweep that could help bring the hoods a little bit closer.. Chris Make a space for people to come as they are and not have to just “fit in”On Feb 10, 2024, at 11:27 AM, Patrick Moore  wrote:Ethan: Two suggestions:1. Don't use saddle adjustment to adjust your bar. Get your saddle where it should be for greatest comfort and pedaling efficiency -- saddle height and setback in relation to the bottom bracket or crank axle is where I start my setup -- and then determine from saddle position where your bar should be, and choose stem and bar to suit.2. For the ultimate in shortness and shallowness in a drop bar (narrowness too, it seems), take a look at the Specialized Hover bar: https://www.specialized.com/us/en/hover-expert-alloy-handlebars--15mm-rise/p/156001?color=230548-156001It's ugly but it has essentially no ramps because the reach is so short and it has a very shallow drop with a 15 mm rise at the stem clamp. I used one of these on my erstwhile Medium 2012 Monocog (gave it to a friend) to get a drop bar more or less comfortable on a frame with (by my road standard) an immensely too long top tube (59.6 cm versus my preferred 56 or 57 cm). I tried it with several stems (expensive even with generic MVS or whatever they were stems), going from 17* 9 cm to 30 or 35* 7 cm. Still a wee bit far but much, much better. I went thru this bar and stem contortion because even a Hover bar (mine was 44 cm) a cm or 2 too far away was better than any non-drop bar I could find.On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 8:14:49 PM UTC-5 Ethan K wrote:...  I already have the seat forward on the rails, btw. I will swap the stem this weekend and see how that goes. Next  would be  handlebars, going shorter reach and also narrower. (sounds like I shouldn't be afraid of going even shorter.) I'm currently running a 46cm Noodle, which feels wide in addition to long. When I swapped bars on the Breezer, I went with shorter AND narrower, going from 44-42, and both of those changes helped a lot.



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Re: [RBW] Re: Intro post, pics of my RIvs, and a Homer fit question

[Patrick Moore]

Ethan: Two suggestions:

1. Don't use saddle adjustment to adjust your bar. Get your saddle where it
should be for greatest comfort and pedaling efficiency -- saddle height and
setback in relation to the bottom bracket or crank axle is where I start my
setup -- and then determine from saddle position where your bar should be,
and choose stem and bar to suit.

2. For the ultimate in shortness and shallowness in a drop bar (narrowness
too, it seems), take a look at the Specialized Hover bar:
https://www.specialized.com/us/en/hover-expert-alloy-handlebars--15mm-rise/p/156001?color=230548-156001

It's ugly but it has essentially no ramps because the reach is so short and
it has a very shallow drop *with* a 15 mm rise at the stem clamp. I used
one of these on my erstwhile Medium 2012 Monocog (gave it to a friend) to
get a drop bar more or less comfortable on a frame with (by my road
standard) an immensely too long top tube (59.6 cm versus my preferred 56 or
57 cm). I tried it with several stems (expensive even with generic MVS or
whatever they were stems), going from 17* 9 cm to 30 or 35* 7 cm. Still a
wee bit far but much, much better. I went thru this bar and stem contortion
because even a Hover bar (mine was 44 cm) a cm or 2 too far away was better
than any non-drop bar I could find.


On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 8:14:49 PM UTC-5 Ethan K wrote:
...  I already have the seat forward on the rails, btw. I will swap the
stem this weekend and see how that goes. Next  would be  handlebars, going
shorter reach and also narrower. (sounds like I shouldn't be afraid of
going even shorter.) I'm currently running a 46cm Noodle, which feels wide
in addition to long. When I swapped bars on the Breezer, I went with
shorter AND narrower, going from 44-42, and both of those changes helped a
lot.

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[RBW] Re: Intro post, pics of my RIvs, and a Homer fit question

['John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Chris stated,  " not sure I'd call the Noodles short reach with a 92mm (per 
Riv site) reach.. maybe shorter than some older school bars, but current 
bar design has much shorter reaches."

2019 Nitto catalog page 9 shows the Mod 177 (noodles) having a 95mm Reach, 
BUT the ends come back towards the rider by 7mm so the 'Reach at the curve 
forward' is 88mm.  The Noodles also have a SHALLOW (less steep) Ramp as can 
be seen in the bar profiles in the Nitto catalog.  In the past, Grant 
stated the shallow ramp was a main factor in the comfort of the bar, your 
hands have less tendency to slide down the ramp.  You only need to rotate 
them around 15 degrees to have a flat ramp section.

Yes you can get shorter reach bars, BUT they may have steep ramps and may 
not be as comfortable as the 177.   My point is the 177 is already short 
reach, so think about shorter stems before possibly compromising on bar 
comfort.

WRT to the 140mm Drop, RBW designed the bar to be at or above saddle 
height, so the effective drop is much shorter.   I have my bars at 10mm 
above SH and when using the Noddle I was comfortable in the drops for 
extended periods of time.   True, if your bars are below SH, Drop will have 
more significance.

John Hawrylak  comfortable on 44cm RH Radonnuer bar at or +10mm of SH 
and rotated about 25deg down for the small bump, but thinks a 42 or 40 may 
be better
Woodstown NJ

On Saturday, February 10, 2024 at 12:56:34 AM UTC-5 four...@gmail.com wrote:

> not sure I'd call the Noodles short reach with a 92mm (per Riv site) 
> reach.. maybe shorter than some older school bars, but current bar design 
> has much shorter reaches.. the Salsa Cowbells I use on my Homer have a 
> reach of 68mm and drops of 115mm.. the Noodles have a much deeper drop at 
> 140mm that, for me, is far to deep to really be useful.. but everyone has 
> their own preferences.. the other bars I like are the Ritchey Butano bars 
> that have a 73mm reach and 115mm drops.. 
>
> Chris in Sonoma County 
>
> On Friday, February 9, 2024 at 5:48:02 PM UTC-8 John Hawrylak, Woodstown 
> NJ wrote:
>
>> Ethan
>>
>> I suggest you measure your AHH and Breezer as I suggested.  This will 
>> give you a good idea of how much each change on the AHH goes to meeting the 
>> distance you have on the Breezer.  Your Noddle bars are already short 
>> reach, 96mm comes to mind changing bars may not give you much.   
>>
>> John Hawrylak
>> Woodstown NJ
>>
>> On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 8:14:49 PM UTC-5 Ethan K wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all, thank you so much for the replies. To answer some questions and 
>>> provide additional info: 
>>> Joe you are correct: 55 Cheviot, 54.5 Homer. I had thought about getting 
>>> a purple Apaloosa when they went on sale last year, but after talking to 
>>> Rivendell, realized that the Homer was a better fit for my use case. Once I 
>>> saw they were offering the butternut/mustard/classic Datsun color, I was 
>>> in. 
>>>
>>>  It's tough picking a size without getting a chance to try the bikes 
>>> first, so I utilized the PBH sizing Riv recommends--but I do think the 
>>> frame is a bit large, all things considered. Standover does work for me, so 
>>> I'm hopeful I can get it to work.  I already have the seat forward on the 
>>> rails, btw. I will swap the stem this weekend and see how that goes. Next 
>>>  would be  handlebars, going shorter reach and also narrower. (sounds like 
>>> I shouldn't be afraid of going even shorter.) I'm currently running a 46cm 
>>> Noodle, which feels wide in addition to long. When I swapped bars on the 
>>> Breezer, I went with shorter AND narrower, going from 44-42, and both of 
>>> those changes helped a lot. . Oh, and Chris, thanks for reminding me about 
>>> handlebar diameter. I forgot about the different standards. I think between 
>>> bar and stem, I can make it work for me. This bike is beautiful (way more 
>>> than my pic), and I put a lot of thought into the build. In retrospect, I 
>>> would have gotten the bike fit first, with the Breezer, to get all the #s I 
>>> need. 
>>>
>>> Also, thank you Liz for the detailed fit info and the suggestion 
>>> regarding quill/threadless adapters for the bike fit. I was wondering how 
>>> that would work.
>>>
>>> --Eitan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 9:21:47 AM UTC-8 maxcr wrote:
>>>
 Agreed, I used to run a 30mm extension (w)right stem from Analog Cycles 
 paired with a short reach SimWorks Co-Misirlou Bar on my 61 Toyo AHH. I 
 think a shorter 5cm or even 30mm extension stem will do the trick if 
 you're 
 set on dropbars 
 Max 

 On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 11:18:41 AM UTC-5 four...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> so I have a first gen Homer with drop bars and I totally get your 
> point on reach, they do seem to be long bikes.. at least with drop bars 
> fitted. Plus, I firmly believe the Riv folks tend to skew to putting 
> folks 
> a bike one size too large for

[RBW] Re: Intro post, pics of my RIvs, and a Homer fit question

[Joe Bernard]

A 46cm Noodle may be just dandy for a taller person but I ride the same 
size bikes as the OP and had them on a Bridgestone RB-1. WAY too deep and 
wide for me. 

On Friday, February 9, 2024 at 9:56:34 PM UTC-8 four...@gmail.com wrote:

> not sure I'd call the Noodles short reach with a 92mm (per Riv site) 
> reach.. maybe shorter than some older school bars, but current bar design 
> has much shorter reaches.. the Salsa Cowbells I use on my Homer have a 
> reach of 68mm and drops of 115mm.. the Noodles have a much deeper drop at 
> 140mm that, for me, is far to deep to really be useful.. but everyone has 
> their own preferences.. the other bars I like are the Ritchey Butano bars 
> that have a 73mm reach and 115mm drops.. 
>
> Chris in Sonoma County 
>
> On Friday, February 9, 2024 at 5:48:02 PM UTC-8 John Hawrylak, Woodstown 
> NJ wrote:
>
>> Ethan
>>
>> I suggest you measure your AHH and Breezer as I suggested.  This will 
>> give you a good idea of how much each change on the AHH goes to meeting the 
>> distance you have on the Breezer.  Your Noddle bars are already short 
>> reach, 96mm comes to mind changing bars may not give you much.   
>>
>> John Hawrylak
>> Woodstown NJ
>>
>> On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 8:14:49 PM UTC-5 Ethan K wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all, thank you so much for the replies. To answer some questions and 
>>> provide additional info: 
>>> Joe you are correct: 55 Cheviot, 54.5 Homer. I had thought about getting 
>>> a purple Apaloosa when they went on sale last year, but after talking to 
>>> Rivendell, realized that the Homer was a better fit for my use case. Once I 
>>> saw they were offering the butternut/mustard/classic Datsun color, I was 
>>> in. 
>>>
>>>  It's tough picking a size without getting a chance to try the bikes 
>>> first, so I utilized the PBH sizing Riv recommends--but I do think the 
>>> frame is a bit large, all things considered. Standover does work for me, so 
>>> I'm hopeful I can get it to work.  I already have the seat forward on the 
>>> rails, btw. I will swap the stem this weekend and see how that goes. Next 
>>>  would be  handlebars, going shorter reach and also narrower. (sounds like 
>>> I shouldn't be afraid of going even shorter.) I'm currently running a 46cm 
>>> Noodle, which feels wide in addition to long. When I swapped bars on the 
>>> Breezer, I went with shorter AND narrower, going from 44-42, and both of 
>>> those changes helped a lot. . Oh, and Chris, thanks for reminding me about 
>>> handlebar diameter. I forgot about the different standards. I think between 
>>> bar and stem, I can make it work for me. This bike is beautiful (way more 
>>> than my pic), and I put a lot of thought into the build. In retrospect, I 
>>> would have gotten the bike fit first, with the Breezer, to get all the #s I 
>>> need. 
>>>
>>> Also, thank you Liz for the detailed fit info and the suggestion 
>>> regarding quill/threadless adapters for the bike fit. I was wondering how 
>>> that would work.
>>>
>>> --Eitan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 9:21:47 AM UTC-8 maxcr wrote:
>>>
 Agreed, I used to run a 30mm extension (w)right stem from Analog Cycles 
 paired with a short reach SimWorks Co-Misirlou Bar on my 61 Toyo AHH. I 
 think a shorter 5cm or even 30mm extension stem will do the trick if 
 you're 
 set on dropbars 
 Max 

 On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 11:18:41 AM UTC-5 four...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> so I have a first gen Homer with drop bars and I totally get your 
> point on reach, they do seem to be long bikes.. at least with drop bars 
> fitted. Plus, I firmly believe the Riv folks tend to skew to putting 
> folks 
> a bike one size too large for them (at least in my experience).. 
>
> What I did was get the Velo Orange quill stem with removable 
> faceplate. This stem allows you to use 31.8 bars (or smaller with shims) 
> and opens up a TON more bar options than a traditional quill stem with 
> the 
> smaller diameters. I'm currently using Salsa Cowbell bars as they have a 
> shorter reach and shorter drop that I MUCH prefer over something like a 
> Noodle.. another point is the wider the bars, the longer the reach will 
> feel.. 
>
> Chris in Sonoma County
>
> On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 7:31:28 AM UTC-8 ian m wrote:
>
>> If the standover height is acceptable, then I would argue the larger 
>> frame is going to lead to a better fit. I have a hard time with just the 
>> raw data which is why I like using bike insights. Comparing the 54.5 and 
>> 51 
>> Homers, we can see a few important points: the stack is much higher 
>> meaning 
>> the bars are already starting higher. Even with an effective top tube 
>> increase of 15mm, the reach is only 1mm more on the 54.5. Easily 
>> mitigated 
>> with a stem. Seat is going to land on the same axis with either size, so 
>> fit s

[RBW] Re: Intro post, pics of my RIvs, and a Homer fit question

[Chris Fly]

not sure I'd call the Noodles short reach with a 92mm (per Riv site) 
reach.. maybe shorter than some older school bars, but current bar design 
has much shorter reaches.. the Salsa Cowbells I use on my Homer have a 
reach of 68mm and drops of 115mm.. the Noodles have a much deeper drop at 
140mm that, for me, is far to deep to really be useful.. but everyone has 
their own preferences.. the other bars I like are the Ritchey Butano bars 
that have a 73mm reach and 115mm drops.. 

Chris in Sonoma County 

On Friday, February 9, 2024 at 5:48:02 PM UTC-8 John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ 
wrote:

> Ethan
>
> I suggest you measure your AHH and Breezer as I suggested.  This will give 
> you a good idea of how much each change on the AHH goes to meeting the 
> distance you have on the Breezer.  Your Noddle bars are already short 
> reach, 96mm comes to mind changing bars may not give you much.   
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
> On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 8:14:49 PM UTC-5 Ethan K wrote:
>
>> Hi all, thank you so much for the replies. To answer some questions and 
>> provide additional info: 
>> Joe you are correct: 55 Cheviot, 54.5 Homer. I had thought about getting 
>> a purple Apaloosa when they went on sale last year, but after talking to 
>> Rivendell, realized that the Homer was a better fit for my use case. Once I 
>> saw they were offering the butternut/mustard/classic Datsun color, I was 
>> in. 
>>
>>  It's tough picking a size without getting a chance to try the bikes 
>> first, so I utilized the PBH sizing Riv recommends--but I do think the 
>> frame is a bit large, all things considered. Standover does work for me, so 
>> I'm hopeful I can get it to work.  I already have the seat forward on the 
>> rails, btw. I will swap the stem this weekend and see how that goes. Next 
>>  would be  handlebars, going shorter reach and also narrower. (sounds like 
>> I shouldn't be afraid of going even shorter.) I'm currently running a 46cm 
>> Noodle, which feels wide in addition to long. When I swapped bars on the 
>> Breezer, I went with shorter AND narrower, going from 44-42, and both of 
>> those changes helped a lot. . Oh, and Chris, thanks for reminding me about 
>> handlebar diameter. I forgot about the different standards. I think between 
>> bar and stem, I can make it work for me. This bike is beautiful (way more 
>> than my pic), and I put a lot of thought into the build. In retrospect, I 
>> would have gotten the bike fit first, with the Breezer, to get all the #s I 
>> need. 
>>
>> Also, thank you Liz for the detailed fit info and the suggestion 
>> regarding quill/threadless adapters for the bike fit. I was wondering how 
>> that would work.
>>
>> --Eitan
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 9:21:47 AM UTC-8 maxcr wrote:
>>
>>> Agreed, I used to run a 30mm extension (w)right stem from Analog Cycles 
>>> paired with a short reach SimWorks Co-Misirlou Bar on my 61 Toyo AHH. I 
>>> think a shorter 5cm or even 30mm extension stem will do the trick if you're 
>>> set on dropbars 
>>> Max 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 11:18:41 AM UTC-5 four...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 so I have a first gen Homer with drop bars and I totally get your point 
 on reach, they do seem to be long bikes.. at least with drop bars fitted. 
 Plus, I firmly believe the Riv folks tend to skew to putting folks a bike 
 one size too large for them (at least in my experience).. 

 What I did was get the Velo Orange quill stem with removable faceplate. 
 This stem allows you to use 31.8 bars (or smaller with shims) and opens up 
 a TON more bar options than a traditional quill stem with the smaller 
 diameters. I'm currently using Salsa Cowbell bars as they have a shorter 
 reach and shorter drop that I MUCH prefer over something like a Noodle.. 
 another point is the wider the bars, the longer the reach will feel.. 

 Chris in Sonoma County

 On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 7:31:28 AM UTC-8 ian m wrote:

> If the standover height is acceptable, then I would argue the larger 
> frame is going to lead to a better fit. I have a hard time with just the 
> raw data which is why I like using bike insights. Comparing the 54.5 and 
> 51 
> Homers, we can see a few important points: the stack is much higher 
> meaning 
> the bars are already starting higher. Even with an effective top tube 
> increase of 15mm, the reach is only 1mm more on the 54.5. Easily 
> mitigated 
> with a stem. Seat is going to land on the same axis with either size, so 
> fit should be very similar with less seatpost and stem showing. 
>
> On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 9:20:54 AM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> I don't know your frame sizes so I'll do some wild guessing based on 
>> photos: I believe you have a 55cm Cheviot and a 54.5 Homer. If this is 
>> accurate the effective toptube numbers should be about the 

[RBW] Re: Intro post, pics of my RIvs, and a Homer fit question

['John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Ethan

I suggest you measure your AHH and Breezer as I suggested.  This will give 
you a good idea of how much each change on the AHH goes to meeting the 
distance you have on the Breezer.  Your Noddle bars are already short 
reach, 96mm comes to mind changing bars may not give you much.   

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 8:14:49 PM UTC-5 Ethan K wrote:

> Hi all, thank you so much for the replies. To answer some questions and 
> provide additional info: 
> Joe you are correct: 55 Cheviot, 54.5 Homer. I had thought about getting a 
> purple Apaloosa when they went on sale last year, but after talking to 
> Rivendell, realized that the Homer was a better fit for my use case. Once I 
> saw they were offering the butternut/mustard/classic Datsun color, I was 
> in. 
>
>  It's tough picking a size without getting a chance to try the bikes 
> first, so I utilized the PBH sizing Riv recommends--but I do think the 
> frame is a bit large, all things considered. Standover does work for me, so 
> I'm hopeful I can get it to work.  I already have the seat forward on the 
> rails, btw. I will swap the stem this weekend and see how that goes. Next 
>  would be  handlebars, going shorter reach and also narrower. (sounds like 
> I shouldn't be afraid of going even shorter.) I'm currently running a 46cm 
> Noodle, which feels wide in addition to long. When I swapped bars on the 
> Breezer, I went with shorter AND narrower, going from 44-42, and both of 
> those changes helped a lot. . Oh, and Chris, thanks for reminding me about 
> handlebar diameter. I forgot about the different standards. I think between 
> bar and stem, I can make it work for me. This bike is beautiful (way more 
> than my pic), and I put a lot of thought into the build. In retrospect, I 
> would have gotten the bike fit first, with the Breezer, to get all the #s I 
> need. 
>
> Also, thank you Liz for the detailed fit info and the suggestion regarding 
> quill/threadless adapters for the bike fit. I was wondering how that would 
> work.
>
> --Eitan
>
>
>
> On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 9:21:47 AM UTC-8 maxcr wrote:
>
>> Agreed, I used to run a 30mm extension (w)right stem from Analog Cycles 
>> paired with a short reach SimWorks Co-Misirlou Bar on my 61 Toyo AHH. I 
>> think a shorter 5cm or even 30mm extension stem will do the trick if you're 
>> set on dropbars 
>> Max 
>>
>> On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 11:18:41 AM UTC-5 four...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> so I have a first gen Homer with drop bars and I totally get your point 
>>> on reach, they do seem to be long bikes.. at least with drop bars fitted. 
>>> Plus, I firmly believe the Riv folks tend to skew to putting folks a bike 
>>> one size too large for them (at least in my experience).. 
>>>
>>> What I did was get the Velo Orange quill stem with removable faceplate. 
>>> This stem allows you to use 31.8 bars (or smaller with shims) and opens up 
>>> a TON more bar options than a traditional quill stem with the smaller 
>>> diameters. I'm currently using Salsa Cowbell bars as they have a shorter 
>>> reach and shorter drop that I MUCH prefer over something like a Noodle.. 
>>> another point is the wider the bars, the longer the reach will feel.. 
>>>
>>> Chris in Sonoma County
>>>
>>> On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 7:31:28 AM UTC-8 ian m wrote:
>>>
 If the standover height is acceptable, then I would argue the larger 
 frame is going to lead to a better fit. I have a hard time with just the 
 raw data which is why I like using bike insights. Comparing the 54.5 and 
 51 
 Homers, we can see a few important points: the stack is much higher 
 meaning 
 the bars are already starting higher. Even with an effective top tube 
 increase of 15mm, the reach is only 1mm more on the 54.5. Easily mitigated 
 with a stem. Seat is going to land on the same axis with either size, so 
 fit should be very similar with less seatpost and stem showing. 

 On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 9:20:54 AM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I don't know your frame sizes so I'll do some wild guessing based on 
> photos: I believe you have a 55cm Cheviot and a 54.5 Homer. If this is 
> accurate the effective toptube numbers should be about the same and 
> you're 
> happy with the pullback bars on the Chev. Conclusion: the Homer may be a 
> bit big for you, which is why the reach to drops is too long. I agree 
> with 
> Riv that a 7cm stem should help but I'm concerned that you'll still find 
> the Homer kinda big-ish. 
>
> Joe Bernard, who fits a 55 Chev with pullbacks and would need a 51 
> Homer for drops 
>
> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 7:34:08 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> What are the sizes of your Riv frames? 
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 4:06:31 PM UTC-8 
>> eitanz...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Bill,  I don't have my bike fit 

[RBW] Re: Intro post, pics of my RIvs, and a Homer fit question

[Collin A]

Dang, these are some enviable rivs! Definitely a fan of the homer, and 
you can find stems shorter than 70 if needed (down to 0!). When I ran drop 
bars on my Appaloosa I used a 60mm stem and even that felt a hair too long 
given the already long top tube. I also dabbled with a 0mm stem on my clem 
with wide 35 deg backsweep bars, which was 100% too big for me, and it rode 
mostly fine. It did take some miles to get used to it though.

Other bar recommendations would be the Nitto x Fairweather m174aa bars, but 
they sadly seem to be discontinued (can find them used now and again). They 
had 'modern' drop and reach, but had a 25.4 clamp diam.
Fairweather x Nitto Components! - BLUE LUG BLOG 


Wishing you many happy miles on both!
Collin in Berktown

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[RBW] Re: Intro post, pics of my RIvs, and a Homer fit question

[Joe Bernard]

Ah, that bar is indeed quite wide and deep. I tried a 46cm Noodle many 
years ago and it lasted about two weeks on my bike, it felt like the reach 
doubled! 

On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 5:14:49 PM UTC-8 eitanz...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi all, thank you so much for the replies. To answer some questions and 
> provide additional info: 
> Joe you are correct: 55 Cheviot, 54.5 Homer. I had thought about getting a 
> purple Apaloosa when they went on sale last year, but after talking to 
> Rivendell, realized that the Homer was a better fit for my use case. Once I 
> saw they were offering the butternut/mustard/classic Datsun color, I was 
> in. 
>
>  It's tough picking a size without getting a chance to try the bikes 
> first, so I utilized the PBH sizing Riv recommends--but I do think the 
> frame is a bit large, all things considered. Standover does work for me, so 
> I'm hopeful I can get it to work.  I already have the seat forward on the 
> rails, btw. I will swap the stem this weekend and see how that goes. Next 
>  would be  handlebars, going shorter reach and also narrower. (sounds like 
> I shouldn't be afraid of going even shorter.) I'm currently running a 46cm 
> Noodle, which feels wide in addition to long. When I swapped bars on the 
> Breezer, I went with shorter AND narrower, going from 44-42, and both of 
> those changes helped a lot. . Oh, and Chris, thanks for reminding me about 
> handlebar diameter. I forgot about the different standards. I think between 
> bar and stem, I can make it work for me. This bike is beautiful (way more 
> than my pic), and I put a lot of thought into the build. In retrospect, I 
> would have gotten the bike fit first, with the Breezer, to get all the #s I 
> need. 
>
> Also, thank you Liz for the detailed fit info and the suggestion regarding 
> quill/threadless adapters for the bike fit. I was wondering how that would 
> work.
>
> --Eitan
>
>
>
> On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 9:21:47 AM UTC-8 maxcr wrote:
>
>> Agreed, I used to run a 30mm extension (w)right stem from Analog Cycles 
>> paired with a short reach SimWorks Co-Misirlou Bar on my 61 Toyo AHH. I 
>> think a shorter 5cm or even 30mm extension stem will do the trick if you're 
>> set on dropbars 
>> Max 
>>
>> On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 11:18:41 AM UTC-5 four...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> so I have a first gen Homer with drop bars and I totally get your point 
>>> on reach, they do seem to be long bikes.. at least with drop bars fitted. 
>>> Plus, I firmly believe the Riv folks tend to skew to putting folks a bike 
>>> one size too large for them (at least in my experience).. 
>>>
>>> What I did was get the Velo Orange quill stem with removable faceplate. 
>>> This stem allows you to use 31.8 bars (or smaller with shims) and opens up 
>>> a TON more bar options than a traditional quill stem with the smaller 
>>> diameters. I'm currently using Salsa Cowbell bars as they have a shorter 
>>> reach and shorter drop that I MUCH prefer over something like a Noodle.. 
>>> another point is the wider the bars, the longer the reach will feel.. 
>>>
>>> Chris in Sonoma County
>>>
>>> On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 7:31:28 AM UTC-8 ian m wrote:
>>>
 If the standover height is acceptable, then I would argue the larger 
 frame is going to lead to a better fit. I have a hard time with just the 
 raw data which is why I like using bike insights. Comparing the 54.5 and 
 51 
 Homers, we can see a few important points: the stack is much higher 
 meaning 
 the bars are already starting higher. Even with an effective top tube 
 increase of 15mm, the reach is only 1mm more on the 54.5. Easily mitigated 
 with a stem. Seat is going to land on the same axis with either size, so 
 fit should be very similar with less seatpost and stem showing. 

 On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 9:20:54 AM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I don't know your frame sizes so I'll do some wild guessing based on 
> photos: I believe you have a 55cm Cheviot and a 54.5 Homer. If this is 
> accurate the effective toptube numbers should be about the same and 
> you're 
> happy with the pullback bars on the Chev. Conclusion: the Homer may be a 
> bit big for you, which is why the reach to drops is too long. I agree 
> with 
> Riv that a 7cm stem should help but I'm concerned that you'll still find 
> the Homer kinda big-ish. 
>
> Joe Bernard, who fits a 55 Chev with pullbacks and would need a 51 
> Homer for drops 
>
> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 7:34:08 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> What are the sizes of your Riv frames? 
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 4:06:31 PM UTC-8 
>> eitanz...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Bill,  I don't have my bike fit completey figure out yet. I 
>>> used to bike a lot more 20 years ago (mountain biking) and have 
>>> recently 
>>> gotten back into ridin

[RBW] Re: Intro post, pics of my RIvs, and a Homer fit question

[Ethan K]

Hi all, thank you so much for the replies. To answer some questions and 
provide additional info: 
Joe you are correct: 55 Cheviot, 54.5 Homer. I had thought about getting a 
purple Apaloosa when they went on sale last year, but after talking to 
Rivendell, realized that the Homer was a better fit for my use case. Once I 
saw they were offering the butternut/mustard/classic Datsun color, I was 
in. 

 It's tough picking a size without getting a chance to try the bikes first, 
so I utilized the PBH sizing Riv recommends--but I do think the frame is a 
bit large, all things considered. Standover does work for me, so I'm 
hopeful I can get it to work.  I already have the seat forward on the 
rails, btw. I will swap the stem this weekend and see how that goes. Next 
 would be  handlebars, going shorter reach and also narrower. (sounds like 
I shouldn't be afraid of going even shorter.) I'm currently running a 46cm 
Noodle, which feels wide in addition to long. When I swapped bars on the 
Breezer, I went with shorter AND narrower, going from 44-42, and both of 
those changes helped a lot. . Oh, and Chris, thanks for reminding me about 
handlebar diameter. I forgot about the different standards. I think between 
bar and stem, I can make it work for me. This bike is beautiful (way more 
than my pic), and I put a lot of thought into the build. In retrospect, I 
would have gotten the bike fit first, with the Breezer, to get all the #s I 
need. 

Also, thank you Liz for the detailed fit info and the suggestion regarding 
quill/threadless adapters for the bike fit. I was wondering how that would 
work.

--Eitan



On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 9:21:47 AM UTC-8 maxcr wrote:

> Agreed, I used to run a 30mm extension (w)right stem from Analog Cycles 
> paired with a short reach SimWorks Co-Misirlou Bar on my 61 Toyo AHH. I 
> think a shorter 5cm or even 30mm extension stem will do the trick if you're 
> set on dropbars 
> Max 
>
> On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 11:18:41 AM UTC-5 four...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> so I have a first gen Homer with drop bars and I totally get your point 
>> on reach, they do seem to be long bikes.. at least with drop bars fitted. 
>> Plus, I firmly believe the Riv folks tend to skew to putting folks a bike 
>> one size too large for them (at least in my experience).. 
>>
>> What I did was get the Velo Orange quill stem with removable faceplate. 
>> This stem allows you to use 31.8 bars (or smaller with shims) and opens up 
>> a TON more bar options than a traditional quill stem with the smaller 
>> diameters. I'm currently using Salsa Cowbell bars as they have a shorter 
>> reach and shorter drop that I MUCH prefer over something like a Noodle.. 
>> another point is the wider the bars, the longer the reach will feel.. 
>>
>> Chris in Sonoma County
>>
>> On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 7:31:28 AM UTC-8 ian m wrote:
>>
>>> If the standover height is acceptable, then I would argue the larger 
>>> frame is going to lead to a better fit. I have a hard time with just the 
>>> raw data which is why I like using bike insights. Comparing the 54.5 and 51 
>>> Homers, we can see a few important points: the stack is much higher meaning 
>>> the bars are already starting higher. Even with an effective top tube 
>>> increase of 15mm, the reach is only 1mm more on the 54.5. Easily mitigated 
>>> with a stem. Seat is going to land on the same axis with either size, so 
>>> fit should be very similar with less seatpost and stem showing. 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 9:20:54 AM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 I don't know your frame sizes so I'll do some wild guessing based on 
 photos: I believe you have a 55cm Cheviot and a 54.5 Homer. If this is 
 accurate the effective toptube numbers should be about the same and you're 
 happy with the pullback bars on the Chev. Conclusion: the Homer may be a 
 bit big for you, which is why the reach to drops is too long. I agree with 
 Riv that a 7cm stem should help but I'm concerned that you'll still find 
 the Homer kinda big-ish. 

 Joe Bernard, who fits a 55 Chev with pullbacks and would need a 51 
 Homer for drops 

 On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 7:34:08 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> What are the sizes of your Riv frames? 
>
> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 4:06:31 PM UTC-8 eitanz...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Bill,  I don't have my bike fit completey figure out yet. I 
>> used to bike a lot more 20 years ago (mountain biking) and have recently 
>> gotten back into riding. To your point, I am hoping to get a 
>> professional 
>> bike fit sometime in the near future. (Nate Loyal seems well-recommended 
>> and reviewed.)  Not cheap but likely one of the best bang for the buck 
>> bike 
>> "upgrades." When I mention "endurance," I am referring more to "road 
>> bike 
>> with more relaxed geometry than a race bike," than enduranc

[RBW] Re: Intro post, pics of my RIvs, and a Homer fit question

[maxcr]

Agreed, I used to run a 30mm extension (w)right stem from Analog Cycles 
paired with a short reach SimWorks Co-Misirlou Bar on my 61 Toyo AHH. I 
think a shorter 5cm or even 30mm extension stem will do the trick if you're 
set on dropbars 
Max 

On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 11:18:41 AM UTC-5 four...@gmail.com wrote:

> so I have a first gen Homer with drop bars and I totally get your point on 
> reach, they do seem to be long bikes.. at least with drop bars fitted. 
> Plus, I firmly believe the Riv folks tend to skew to putting folks a bike 
> one size too large for them (at least in my experience).. 
>
> What I did was get the Velo Orange quill stem with removable faceplate. 
> This stem allows you to use 31.8 bars (or smaller with shims) and opens up 
> a TON more bar options than a traditional quill stem with the smaller 
> diameters. I'm currently using Salsa Cowbell bars as they have a shorter 
> reach and shorter drop that I MUCH prefer over something like a Noodle.. 
> another point is the wider the bars, the longer the reach will feel.. 
>
> Chris in Sonoma County
>
> On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 7:31:28 AM UTC-8 ian m wrote:
>
>> If the standover height is acceptable, then I would argue the larger 
>> frame is going to lead to a better fit. I have a hard time with just the 
>> raw data which is why I like using bike insights. Comparing the 54.5 and 51 
>> Homers, we can see a few important points: the stack is much higher meaning 
>> the bars are already starting higher. Even with an effective top tube 
>> increase of 15mm, the reach is only 1mm more on the 54.5. Easily mitigated 
>> with a stem. Seat is going to land on the same axis with either size, so 
>> fit should be very similar with less seatpost and stem showing. 
>>
>> On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 9:20:54 AM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> I don't know your frame sizes so I'll do some wild guessing based on 
>>> photos: I believe you have a 55cm Cheviot and a 54.5 Homer. If this is 
>>> accurate the effective toptube numbers should be about the same and you're 
>>> happy with the pullback bars on the Chev. Conclusion: the Homer may be a 
>>> bit big for you, which is why the reach to drops is too long. I agree with 
>>> Riv that a 7cm stem should help but I'm concerned that you'll still find 
>>> the Homer kinda big-ish. 
>>>
>>> Joe Bernard, who fits a 55 Chev with pullbacks and would need a 51 Homer 
>>> for drops 
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 7:34:08 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 What are the sizes of your Riv frames? 

 On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 4:06:31 PM UTC-8 eitanz...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> Thanks Bill,  I don't have my bike fit completey figure out yet. I 
> used to bike a lot more 20 years ago (mountain biking) and have recently 
> gotten back into riding. To your point, I am hoping to get a professional 
> bike fit sometime in the near future. (Nate Loyal seems well-recommended 
> and reviewed.)  Not cheap but likely one of the best bang for the buck 
> bike 
> "upgrades." When I mention "endurance," I am referring more to "road bike 
> with more relaxed geometry than a race bike," than endurance athletics 
> per 
> se. I am in decent shape but would like to be able to work up to  
> day-long 
> rides, which will require some work on aerobic endurance as well as 
> adjustments to bike and rider.  Currently I am significantly less 
> comfortable on the Homer than on the drop-bar Breezer Doppler Pro I have. 
> I 
> was too stretched on that one until I switched out the bars. The bars I 
> am 
> thinking of for the Homer are the Velo Orange Rando bars, which have 
> about 
> a 10mm shorter reach than the Noodle, and will accomodate bar ends. 
>
> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 2:42:05 PM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> Here are a few thoughts:
>>
>> People who know exactly what works for them figure it out over a long 
>> time with lots of bikes, and have a set of numbers in their pocket so 
>> they 
>> can know before buying whether a particular will set up correctly for 
>> them. 
>>  It sounds like you don't have that all figured out for yourself.  Is 
>> that 
>> a reasonable assumption?
>>
>> People who don't have their fit completely figured out for themselves 
>> are usually well advised to get a fitting from an experienced fitter who 
>> understands the target use-case.  Can you find such a person?  Have you 
>> had 
>> anybody who knows about such things look at you while you are riding?  
>>
>> This is intended for an endurance/all-road use case.  Are you 
>> currently an endurance athlete?  Or do you aspire to be an endurance 
>> athlete?  Do you want the bike to fit the body you have, or the body you 
>> intend to have?  
>>
>> Those are my thoughts.  Best of luck
>>
>> Bil

[RBW] Re: Intro post, pics of my RIvs, and a Homer fit question

[Chris Fly]

so I have a first gen Homer with drop bars and I totally get your point on 
reach, they do seem to be long bikes.. at least with drop bars fitted. 
Plus, I firmly believe the Riv folks tend to skew to putting folks a bike 
one size too large for them (at least in my experience).. 

What I did was get the Velo Orange quill stem with removable faceplate. 
This stem allows you to use 31.8 bars (or smaller with shims) and opens up 
a TON more bar options than a traditional quill stem with the smaller 
diameters. I'm currently using Salsa Cowbell bars as they have a shorter 
reach and shorter drop that I MUCH prefer over something like a Noodle.. 
another point is the wider the bars, the longer the reach will feel.. 

Chris in Sonoma County

On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 7:31:28 AM UTC-8 ian m wrote:

> If the standover height is acceptable, then I would argue the larger frame 
> is going to lead to a better fit. I have a hard time with just the raw data 
> which is why I like using bike insights. Comparing the 54.5 and 51 Homers, 
> we can see a few important points: the stack is much higher meaning the 
> bars are already starting higher. Even with an effective top tube increase 
> of 15mm, the reach is only 1mm more on the 54.5. Easily mitigated with a 
> stem. Seat is going to land on the same axis with either size, so fit 
> should be very similar with less seatpost and stem showing. 
>
> On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 9:20:54 AM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> I don't know your frame sizes so I'll do some wild guessing based on 
>> photos: I believe you have a 55cm Cheviot and a 54.5 Homer. If this is 
>> accurate the effective toptube numbers should be about the same and you're 
>> happy with the pullback bars on the Chev. Conclusion: the Homer may be a 
>> bit big for you, which is why the reach to drops is too long. I agree with 
>> Riv that a 7cm stem should help but I'm concerned that you'll still find 
>> the Homer kinda big-ish. 
>>
>> Joe Bernard, who fits a 55 Chev with pullbacks and would need a 51 Homer 
>> for drops 
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 7:34:08 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> What are the sizes of your Riv frames? 
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 4:06:31 PM UTC-8 eitanz...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Thanks Bill,  I don't have my bike fit completey figure out yet. I used 
 to bike a lot more 20 years ago (mountain biking) and have recently gotten 
 back into riding. To your point, I am hoping to get a professional bike 
 fit 
 sometime in the near future. (Nate Loyal seems well-recommended and 
 reviewed.)  Not cheap but likely one of the best bang for the buck bike 
 "upgrades." When I mention "endurance," I am referring more to "road bike 
 with more relaxed geometry than a race bike," than endurance athletics per 
 se. I am in decent shape but would like to be able to work up to  day-long 
 rides, which will require some work on aerobic endurance as well as 
 adjustments to bike and rider.  Currently I am significantly less 
 comfortable on the Homer than on the drop-bar Breezer Doppler Pro I have. 
 I 
 was too stretched on that one until I switched out the bars. The bars I am 
 thinking of for the Homer are the Velo Orange Rando bars, which have about 
 a 10mm shorter reach than the Noodle, and will accomodate bar ends. 

 On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 2:42:05 PM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Here are a few thoughts:
>
> People who know exactly what works for them figure it out over a long 
> time with lots of bikes, and have a set of numbers in their pocket so 
> they 
> can know before buying whether a particular will set up correctly for 
> them. 
>  It sounds like you don't have that all figured out for yourself.  Is 
> that 
> a reasonable assumption?
>
> People who don't have their fit completely figured out for themselves 
> are usually well advised to get a fitting from an experienced fitter who 
> understands the target use-case.  Can you find such a person?  Have you 
> had 
> anybody who knows about such things look at you while you are riding?  
>
> This is intended for an endurance/all-road use case.  Are you 
> currently an endurance athlete?  Or do you aspire to be an endurance 
> athlete?  Do you want the bike to fit the body you have, or the body you 
> intend to have?  
>
> Those are my thoughts.  Best of luck
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 1:20:53 PM UTC-8 eitanz...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all, wanted to introduce myself and my bikes. Over the last six 
>> months I went from zero to two Rivendells, and joined this group--though 
>> this is my first post: First up, a Cheviot, picked up secondhand, as my 
>> city bike.  Previous owner built this up swanky: Son, XTR,, Pacenti, 
>

[RBW] Re: Intro post, pics of my RIvs, and a Homer fit question

[ian m]

If the standover height is acceptable, then I would argue the larger frame 
is going to lead to a better fit. I have a hard time with just the raw data 
which is why I like using bike insights. Comparing the 54.5 and 51 Homers, 
we can see a few important points: the stack is much higher meaning the 
bars are already starting higher. Even with an effective top tube increase 
of 15mm, the reach is only 1mm more on the 54.5. Easily mitigated with a 
stem. Seat is going to land on the same axis with either size, so fit 
should be very similar with less seatpost and stem showing. 

On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 9:20:54 AM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I don't know your frame sizes so I'll do some wild guessing based on 
> photos: I believe you have a 55cm Cheviot and a 54.5 Homer. If this is 
> accurate the effective toptube numbers should be about the same and you're 
> happy with the pullback bars on the Chev. Conclusion: the Homer may be a 
> bit big for you, which is why the reach to drops is too long. I agree with 
> Riv that a 7cm stem should help but I'm concerned that you'll still find 
> the Homer kinda big-ish. 
>
> Joe Bernard, who fits a 55 Chev with pullbacks and would need a 51 Homer 
> for drops 
>
> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 7:34:08 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> What are the sizes of your Riv frames? 
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 4:06:31 PM UTC-8 eitanz...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Bill,  I don't have my bike fit completey figure out yet. I used 
>>> to bike a lot more 20 years ago (mountain biking) and have recently gotten 
>>> back into riding. To your point, I am hoping to get a professional bike fit 
>>> sometime in the near future. (Nate Loyal seems well-recommended and 
>>> reviewed.)  Not cheap but likely one of the best bang for the buck bike 
>>> "upgrades." When I mention "endurance," I am referring more to "road bike 
>>> with more relaxed geometry than a race bike," than endurance athletics per 
>>> se. I am in decent shape but would like to be able to work up to  day-long 
>>> rides, which will require some work on aerobic endurance as well as 
>>> adjustments to bike and rider.  Currently I am significantly less 
>>> comfortable on the Homer than on the drop-bar Breezer Doppler Pro I have. I 
>>> was too stretched on that one until I switched out the bars. The bars I am 
>>> thinking of for the Homer are the Velo Orange Rando bars, which have about 
>>> a 10mm shorter reach than the Noodle, and will accomodate bar ends. 
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 2:42:05 PM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
 Here are a few thoughts:

 People who know exactly what works for them figure it out over a long 
 time with lots of bikes, and have a set of numbers in their pocket so they 
 can know before buying whether a particular will set up correctly for 
 them. 
  It sounds like you don't have that all figured out for yourself.  Is that 
 a reasonable assumption?

 People who don't have their fit completely figured out for themselves 
 are usually well advised to get a fitting from an experienced fitter who 
 understands the target use-case.  Can you find such a person?  Have you 
 had 
 anybody who knows about such things look at you while you are riding?  

 This is intended for an endurance/all-road use case.  Are you currently 
 an endurance athlete?  Or do you aspire to be an endurance athlete?  Do 
 you 
 want the bike to fit the body you have, or the body you intend to have?  

 Those are my thoughts.  Best of luck

 Bill Lindsay
 El Cerrito, CA

 On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 1:20:53 PM UTC-8 eitanz...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> Hi all, wanted to introduce myself and my bikes. Over the last six 
> months I went from zero to two Rivendells, and joined this group--though 
> this is my first post: First up, a Cheviot, picked up secondhand, as my 
> city bike.  Previous owner built this up swanky: Son, XTR,, Pacenti, 
> Paul, 
> XT, etc. . added the front and rear racks. I also picked up a Riv 
> Happisack, which alternates with the YEPP mount. Apologies for the 
> distinctly un-glamorous garage pic:
>
>
> [image: IMG_2009.jpeg]
>
> I love this bike. It is exceedingly comfortable and beautiful. 
>
> Last month I took delivery of a Homer,  which I had built up to be a 
> zippy road bike with a classic look: 9 speed friction shifting using the 
> Dia Compe shifters to XT derailleur, Rene Herse crankset, Paul brakes, 
> the 
> TRP drilled brake levers, with Velocity Quill rims on Deore hubs. 
>
> [image: IMG_2739.jpeg]
>
>
>
>
>
> That said, as beautiful as this bike is, I haven't been able to get 
> comfortable on it. I am too stretched out. I have tried raising the bars 
> a 
> bit from these pics, but fundamentally I think the 

[RBW] Re: Intro post, pics of my RIvs, and a Homer fit question

[Tim Bantham]

If you want to use drops on your Homer I would say don't have any concerns 
over shortening the stem to 5cm or even less. I've done that on my 62 Sam 
and rides great! 

On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 9:20:54 AM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I don't know your frame sizes so I'll do some wild guessing based on 
> photos: I believe you have a 55cm Cheviot and a 54.5 Homer. If this is 
> accurate the effective toptube numbers should be about the same and you're 
> happy with the pullback bars on the Chev. Conclusion: the Homer may be a 
> bit big for you, which is why the reach to drops is too long. I agree with 
> Riv that a 7cm stem should help but I'm concerned that you'll still find 
> the Homer kinda big-ish. 
>
> Joe Bernard, who fits a 55 Chev with pullbacks and would need a 51 Homer 
> for drops 
>
> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 7:34:08 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> What are the sizes of your Riv frames? 
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 4:06:31 PM UTC-8 eitanz...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Bill,  I don't have my bike fit completey figure out yet. I used 
>>> to bike a lot more 20 years ago (mountain biking) and have recently gotten 
>>> back into riding. To your point, I am hoping to get a professional bike fit 
>>> sometime in the near future. (Nate Loyal seems well-recommended and 
>>> reviewed.)  Not cheap but likely one of the best bang for the buck bike 
>>> "upgrades." When I mention "endurance," I am referring more to "road bike 
>>> with more relaxed geometry than a race bike," than endurance athletics per 
>>> se. I am in decent shape but would like to be able to work up to  day-long 
>>> rides, which will require some work on aerobic endurance as well as 
>>> adjustments to bike and rider.  Currently I am significantly less 
>>> comfortable on the Homer than on the drop-bar Breezer Doppler Pro I have. I 
>>> was too stretched on that one until I switched out the bars. The bars I am 
>>> thinking of for the Homer are the Velo Orange Rando bars, which have about 
>>> a 10mm shorter reach than the Noodle, and will accomodate bar ends. 
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 2:42:05 PM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
 Here are a few thoughts:

 People who know exactly what works for them figure it out over a long 
 time with lots of bikes, and have a set of numbers in their pocket so they 
 can know before buying whether a particular will set up correctly for 
 them. 
  It sounds like you don't have that all figured out for yourself.  Is that 
 a reasonable assumption?

 People who don't have their fit completely figured out for themselves 
 are usually well advised to get a fitting from an experienced fitter who 
 understands the target use-case.  Can you find such a person?  Have you 
 had 
 anybody who knows about such things look at you while you are riding?  

 This is intended for an endurance/all-road use case.  Are you currently 
 an endurance athlete?  Or do you aspire to be an endurance athlete?  Do 
 you 
 want the bike to fit the body you have, or the body you intend to have?  

 Those are my thoughts.  Best of luck

 Bill Lindsay
 El Cerrito, CA

 On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 1:20:53 PM UTC-8 eitanz...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> Hi all, wanted to introduce myself and my bikes. Over the last six 
> months I went from zero to two Rivendells, and joined this group--though 
> this is my first post: First up, a Cheviot, picked up secondhand, as my 
> city bike.  Previous owner built this up swanky: Son, XTR,, Pacenti, 
> Paul, 
> XT, etc. . added the front and rear racks. I also picked up a Riv 
> Happisack, which alternates with the YEPP mount. Apologies for the 
> distinctly un-glamorous garage pic:
>
>
> [image: IMG_2009.jpeg]
>
> I love this bike. It is exceedingly comfortable and beautiful. 
>
> Last month I took delivery of a Homer,  which I had built up to be a 
> zippy road bike with a classic look: 9 speed friction shifting using the 
> Dia Compe shifters to XT derailleur, Rene Herse crankset, Paul brakes, 
> the 
> TRP drilled brake levers, with Velocity Quill rims on Deore hubs. 
>
> [image: IMG_2739.jpeg]
>
>
>
>
>
> That said, as beautiful as this bike is, I haven't been able to get 
> comfortable on it. I am too stretched out. I have tried raising the bars 
> a 
> bit from these pics, but fundamentally I think the reach is too long. I 
> gave my height/PBH to Antonio at Rivendell, and they set the bike up with 
> an 80mm stem. I have ordered a 70mm version of the stem, though I'm 
> concerned that's getting pretty short. Next step if that's not enough is 
> try a shorter-reach handlebar, in a narrower size.  If that doesn't work 
> I 
> fear I will need to sell the bike. I could replace the drops w

[RBW] Re: Intro post, pics of my RIvs, and a Homer fit question

[Joe Bernard]

I don't know your frame sizes so I'll do some wild guessing based on 
photos: I believe you have a 55cm Cheviot and a 54.5 Homer. If this is 
accurate the effective toptube numbers should be about the same and you're 
happy with the pullback bars on the Chev. Conclusion: the Homer may be a 
bit big for you, which is why the reach to drops is too long. I agree with 
Riv that a 7cm stem should help but I'm concerned that you'll still find 
the Homer kinda big-ish. 

Joe Bernard, who fits a 55 Chev with pullbacks and would need a 51 Homer 
for drops 

On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 7:34:08 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> What are the sizes of your Riv frames? 
>
> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 4:06:31 PM UTC-8 eitanz...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Bill,  I don't have my bike fit completey figure out yet. I used 
>> to bike a lot more 20 years ago (mountain biking) and have recently gotten 
>> back into riding. To your point, I am hoping to get a professional bike fit 
>> sometime in the near future. (Nate Loyal seems well-recommended and 
>> reviewed.)  Not cheap but likely one of the best bang for the buck bike 
>> "upgrades." When I mention "endurance," I am referring more to "road bike 
>> with more relaxed geometry than a race bike," than endurance athletics per 
>> se. I am in decent shape but would like to be able to work up to  day-long 
>> rides, which will require some work on aerobic endurance as well as 
>> adjustments to bike and rider.  Currently I am significantly less 
>> comfortable on the Homer than on the drop-bar Breezer Doppler Pro I have. I 
>> was too stretched on that one until I switched out the bars. The bars I am 
>> thinking of for the Homer are the Velo Orange Rando bars, which have about 
>> a 10mm shorter reach than the Noodle, and will accomodate bar ends. 
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 2:42:05 PM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> Here are a few thoughts:
>>>
>>> People who know exactly what works for them figure it out over a long 
>>> time with lots of bikes, and have a set of numbers in their pocket so they 
>>> can know before buying whether a particular will set up correctly for them. 
>>>  It sounds like you don't have that all figured out for yourself.  Is that 
>>> a reasonable assumption?
>>>
>>> People who don't have their fit completely figured out for themselves 
>>> are usually well advised to get a fitting from an experienced fitter who 
>>> understands the target use-case.  Can you find such a person?  Have you had 
>>> anybody who knows about such things look at you while you are riding?  
>>>
>>> This is intended for an endurance/all-road use case.  Are you currently 
>>> an endurance athlete?  Or do you aspire to be an endurance athlete?  Do you 
>>> want the bike to fit the body you have, or the body you intend to have?  
>>>
>>> Those are my thoughts.  Best of luck
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 1:20:53 PM UTC-8 eitanz...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hi all, wanted to introduce myself and my bikes. Over the last six 
 months I went from zero to two Rivendells, and joined this group--though 
 this is my first post: First up, a Cheviot, picked up secondhand, as my 
 city bike.  Previous owner built this up swanky: Son, XTR,, Pacenti, Paul, 
 XT, etc. . added the front and rear racks. I also picked up a Riv 
 Happisack, which alternates with the YEPP mount. Apologies for the 
 distinctly un-glamorous garage pic:


 [image: IMG_2009.jpeg]

 I love this bike. It is exceedingly comfortable and beautiful. 

 Last month I took delivery of a Homer,  which I had built up to be a 
 zippy road bike with a classic look: 9 speed friction shifting using the 
 Dia Compe shifters to XT derailleur, Rene Herse crankset, Paul brakes, the 
 TRP drilled brake levers, with Velocity Quill rims on Deore hubs. 

 [image: IMG_2739.jpeg]





 That said, as beautiful as this bike is, I haven't been able to get 
 comfortable on it. I am too stretched out. I have tried raising the bars a 
 bit from these pics, but fundamentally I think the reach is too long. I 
 gave my height/PBH to Antonio at Rivendell, and they set the bike up with 
 an 80mm stem. I have ordered a 70mm version of the stem, though I'm 
 concerned that's getting pretty short. Next step if that's not enough is 
 try a shorter-reach handlebar, in a narrower size.  If that doesn't work I 
 fear I will need to sell the bike. I could replace the drops with upright 
 bars, but I already have the Cheviot and specifically wanted a drop-bar 
 endurance/all-roadish bike. 

 I get the need to raise the bars, but I don't want a situation where 
 the bars are 5" above the saddle. 

 Any thoughts on other ways to get this bike to fit better?

 Thanks!
 --Eitan (in Los Angeles)

>>>

-- 
You received

[RBW] Re: Intro post, pics of my RIvs, and a Homer fit question

[Sarah Carlson]

I'm building a Homer now, also to be my endurance bike. I don't do drop 
bars because of a wacky shoulder, and what was recommended to me was the 
Choco bar which has some of qualities of a drop bar, but also a swept back 
quality. I have not tried it yet, but that's what I'm aiming for.

I hope you find a solution that works, it's a beautiful bike.
Sarah

On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 1:20:53 PM UTC-8 eitanz...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Hi all, wanted to introduce myself and my bikes. Over the last six months 
> I went from zero to two Rivendells, and joined this group--though this is 
> my first post: First up, a Cheviot, picked up secondhand, as my city bike. 
>  Previous owner built this up swanky: Son, XTR,, Pacenti, Paul, XT, etc. . 
> added the front and rear racks. I also picked up a Riv Happisack, which 
> alternates with the YEPP mount. Apologies for the distinctly un-glamorous 
> garage pic:
>
>
> [image: IMG_2009.jpeg]
>
> I love this bike. It is exceedingly comfortable and beautiful. 
>
> Last month I took delivery of a Homer,  which I had built up to be a zippy 
> road bike with a classic look: 9 speed friction shifting using the Dia 
> Compe shifters to XT derailleur, Rene Herse crankset, Paul brakes, the TRP 
> drilled brake levers, with Velocity Quill rims on Deore hubs. 
>
> [image: IMG_2739.jpeg]
>
>
>
>
>
> That said, as beautiful as this bike is, I haven't been able to get 
> comfortable on it. I am too stretched out. I have tried raising the bars a 
> bit from these pics, but fundamentally I think the reach is too long. I 
> gave my height/PBH to Antonio at Rivendell, and they set the bike up with 
> an 80mm stem. I have ordered a 70mm version of the stem, though I'm 
> concerned that's getting pretty short. Next step if that's not enough is 
> try a shorter-reach handlebar, in a narrower size.  If that doesn't work I 
> fear I will need to sell the bike. I could replace the drops with upright 
> bars, but I already have the Cheviot and specifically wanted a drop-bar 
> endurance/all-roadish bike. 
>
> I get the need to raise the bars, but I don't want a situation where the 
> bars are 5" above the saddle. 
>
> Any thoughts on other ways to get this bike to fit better?
>
> Thanks!
> --Eitan (in Los Angeles)
>

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[RBW] Re: Intro post, pics of my RIvs, and a Homer fit question

[iamkeith]

Oops.  Never mind.  Don't know why I thought that's what I was looking at.  
Something about the angle of the photo and frame color made my mind jump to 
something that wasn't there.  Being distracted while typing on my 
phone  It all makes more sense now.

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[RBW] Re: Intro post, pics of my RIvs, and a Homer fit question

[Joe Bernard]

There's no Appaloosa in question, the mustard bike is a Homer. 

On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 8:15:40 PM UTC-8 iamkeith wrote:

> I said "bosco," but meant "chaco."  The first ones, on the first run of 
> appaloosas, were the bullmoose version.  
>
> (The bosco was designed, coincidentally, in tandem with a model that was 
> also originally going to be called the Appaloosa, but never went beyond 
> prototype form.  It's usually referred to now as tge mystery bike or long 
> bike.)
>
> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 8:39:43 PM UTC-7 iamkeith wrote:
>
>> First of all, "welcome,"  and beautiful bikes!
>>
>> I'd encourage you not to give up on getting the appaloosa to fit, even if 
>> it requires some out-of-the-box solutions, or thinking in diferrent ways 
>> than you're accustomed or predisposed to.  Put some miles on it and get to 
>> know it intimately.  And then, if you DO decide it's not ideal as the drop 
>> bar bike you dreamed of, get something else BEFORE you get rid of the 
>> appaloosa.  This group is full of people who sold a Rivendell only to 
>> regret it after the fact.  Your bike might be  perfect as something you 
>> don't yet realize you need.
>>
>> A couple of things you may or may not be aware of:
>>
>> 1.  As with many Riv models, the appaloosa was originally conceived with 
>> a specific handlebar in mind.  In this case it was the Bosco, which was 
>> likewise originally made FOR the Appaloosa.   You could descibe that as 
>> drop bar- or moustache bar-like, in that it has multiple hand positions, 
>> but it doesn't have the long, forward reach of those bars.  It comes back 
>> TOWARD the rider.  I'm actually sort of surprised Antonio recommended that 
>> stem and reach.  I'd expect that to work for me, with my abnormally-long 
>> torso, but not normal people.
>>
>> 2.  Stems are available with very short reach, or none at all:
>>
>>
>> https://analogcycles.com/products/analog-wright-stem?variant=40095824674993
>>
>> Grant recently blahged about a bike with a stem turned around and 
>> reaching backward  and said it felt totally normal.
>>
>> 3.  Another thing Grant has discussed better than I can, is the 
>> self-negating effect of raising your stem without ALSO shortening it.  (Not 
>> even sure I paraphrased that properly, but it's worth reading before you 
>> mess around with things too much.)  I think that one is on the website 
>> articles.
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 2:20:53 PM UTC-7 eitanz...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all, wanted to introduce myself and my bikes. Over the last six 
>>> months I went from zero to two Rivendells, and joined this group--though 
>>> this is my first post: First up, a Cheviot, picked up secondhand, as my 
>>> city bike.  Previous owner built this up swanky: Son, XTR,, Pacenti, Paul, 
>>> XT, etc. . added the front and rear racks. I also picked up a Riv 
>>> Happisack, which alternates with the YEPP mount. Apologies for the 
>>> distinctly un-glamorous garage pic:
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_2009.jpeg]
>>>
>>> I love this bike. It is exceedingly comfortable and beautiful. 
>>>
>>> Last month I took delivery of a Homer,  which I had built up to be a 
>>> zippy road bike with a classic look: 9 speed friction shifting using the 
>>> Dia Compe shifters to XT derailleur, Rene Herse crankset, Paul brakes, the 
>>> TRP drilled brake levers, with Velocity Quill rims on Deore hubs. 
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_2739.jpeg]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That said, as beautiful as this bike is, I haven't been able to get 
>>> comfortable on it. I am too stretched out. I have tried raising the bars a 
>>> bit from these pics, but fundamentally I think the reach is too long. I 
>>> gave my height/PBH to Antonio at Rivendell, and they set the bike up with 
>>> an 80mm stem. I have ordered a 70mm version of the stem, though I'm 
>>> concerned that's getting pretty short. Next step if that's not enough is 
>>> try a shorter-reach handlebar, in a narrower size.  If that doesn't work I 
>>> fear I will need to sell the bike. I could replace the drops with upright 
>>> bars, but I already have the Cheviot and specifically wanted a drop-bar 
>>> endurance/all-roadish bike. 
>>>
>>> I get the need to raise the bars, but I don't want a situation where the 
>>> bars are 5" above the saddle. 
>>>
>>> Any thoughts on other ways to get this bike to fit better?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> --Eitan (in Los Angeles)
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Intro post, pics of my RIvs, and a Homer fit question

[iamkeith]

I said "bosco," but meant "chaco."  The first ones, on the first run of 
appaloosas, were the bullmoose version.  

(The bosco was designed, coincidentally, in tandem with a model that was 
also originally going to be called the Appaloosa, but never went beyond 
prototype form.  It's usually referred to now as tge mystery bike or long 
bike.)

On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 8:39:43 PM UTC-7 iamkeith wrote:

> First of all, "welcome,"  and beautiful bikes!
>
> I'd encourage you not to give up on getting the appaloosa to fit, even if 
> it requires some out-of-the-box solutions, or thinking in diferrent ways 
> than you're accustomed or predisposed to.  Put some miles on it and get to 
> know it intimately.  And then, if you DO decide it's not ideal as the drop 
> bar bike you dreamed of, get something else BEFORE you get rid of the 
> appaloosa.  This group is full of people who sold a Rivendell only to 
> regret it after the fact.  Your bike might be  perfect as something you 
> don't yet realize you need.
>
> A couple of things you may or may not be aware of:
>
> 1.  As with many Riv models, the appaloosa was originally conceived with a 
> specific handlebar in mind.  In this case it was the Bosco, which was 
> likewise originally made FOR the Appaloosa.   You could descibe that as 
> drop bar- or moustache bar-like, in that it has multiple hand positions, 
> but it doesn't have the long, forward reach of those bars.  It comes back 
> TOWARD the rider.  I'm actually sort of surprised Antonio recommended that 
> stem and reach.  I'd expect that to work for me, with my abnormally-long 
> torso, but not normal people.
>
> 2.  Stems are available with very short reach, or none at all:
>
> https://analogcycles.com/products/analog-wright-stem?variant=40095824674993
>
> Grant recently blahged about a bike with a stem turned around and reaching 
> backward  and said it felt totally normal.
>
> 3.  Another thing Grant has discussed better than I can, is the 
> self-negating effect of raising your stem without ALSO shortening it.  (Not 
> even sure I paraphrased that properly, but it's worth reading before you 
> mess around with things too much.)  I think that one is on the website 
> articles.
>
>
> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 2:20:53 PM UTC-7 eitanz...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all, wanted to introduce myself and my bikes. Over the last six months 
>> I went from zero to two Rivendells, and joined this group--though this is 
>> my first post: First up, a Cheviot, picked up secondhand, as my city bike. 
>>  Previous owner built this up swanky: Son, XTR,, Pacenti, Paul, XT, etc. . 
>> added the front and rear racks. I also picked up a Riv Happisack, which 
>> alternates with the YEPP mount. Apologies for the distinctly un-glamorous 
>> garage pic:
>>
>>
>> [image: IMG_2009.jpeg]
>>
>> I love this bike. It is exceedingly comfortable and beautiful. 
>>
>> Last month I took delivery of a Homer,  which I had built up to be a 
>> zippy road bike with a classic look: 9 speed friction shifting using the 
>> Dia Compe shifters to XT derailleur, Rene Herse crankset, Paul brakes, the 
>> TRP drilled brake levers, with Velocity Quill rims on Deore hubs. 
>>
>> [image: IMG_2739.jpeg]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> That said, as beautiful as this bike is, I haven't been able to get 
>> comfortable on it. I am too stretched out. I have tried raising the bars a 
>> bit from these pics, but fundamentally I think the reach is too long. I 
>> gave my height/PBH to Antonio at Rivendell, and they set the bike up with 
>> an 80mm stem. I have ordered a 70mm version of the stem, though I'm 
>> concerned that's getting pretty short. Next step if that's not enough is 
>> try a shorter-reach handlebar, in a narrower size.  If that doesn't work I 
>> fear I will need to sell the bike. I could replace the drops with upright 
>> bars, but I already have the Cheviot and specifically wanted a drop-bar 
>> endurance/all-roadish bike. 
>>
>> I get the need to raise the bars, but I don't want a situation where the 
>> bars are 5" above the saddle. 
>>
>> Any thoughts on other ways to get this bike to fit better?
>>
>> Thanks!
>> --Eitan (in Los Angeles)
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Intro post, pics of my RIvs, and a Homer fit question

[iamkeith]

First of all, "welcome,"  and beautiful bikes!

I'd encourage you not to give up on getting the appaloosa to fit, even if 
it requires some out-of-the-box solutions, or thinking in diferrent ways 
than you're accustomed or predisposed to.  Put some miles on it and get to 
know it intimately.  And then, if you DO decide it's not ideal as the drop 
bar bike you dreamed of, get something else BEFORE you get rid of the 
appaloosa.  This group is full of people who sold a Rivendell only to 
regret it after the fact.  Your bike might be  perfect as something you 
don't yet realize you need.

A couple of things you may or may not be aware of:

1.  As with many Riv models, the appaloosa was originally conceived with a 
specific handlebar in mind.  In this case it was the Bosco, which was 
likewise originally made FOR the Appaloosa.   You could descibe that as 
drop bar- or moustache bar-like, in that it has multiple hand positions, 
but it doesn't have the long, forward reach of those bars.  It comes back 
TOWARD the rider.  I'm actually sort of surprised Antonio recommended that 
stem and reach.  I'd expect that to work for me, with my abnormally-long 
torso, but not normal people.

2.  Stems are available with very short reach, or none at all:

https://analogcycles.com/products/analog-wright-stem?variant=40095824674993

Grant recently blahged about a bike with a stem turned around and reaching 
backward  and said it felt totally normal.

3.  Another thing Grant has discussed better than I can, is the 
self-negating effect of raising your stem without ALSO shortening it.  (Not 
even sure I paraphrased that properly, but it's worth reading before you 
mess around with things too much.)  I think that one is on the website 
articles.


On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 2:20:53 PM UTC-7 eitanz...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Hi all, wanted to introduce myself and my bikes. Over the last six months 
> I went from zero to two Rivendells, and joined this group--though this is 
> my first post: First up, a Cheviot, picked up secondhand, as my city bike. 
>  Previous owner built this up swanky: Son, XTR,, Pacenti, Paul, XT, etc. . 
> added the front and rear racks. I also picked up a Riv Happisack, which 
> alternates with the YEPP mount. Apologies for the distinctly un-glamorous 
> garage pic:
>
>
> [image: IMG_2009.jpeg]
>
> I love this bike. It is exceedingly comfortable and beautiful. 
>
> Last month I took delivery of a Homer,  which I had built up to be a zippy 
> road bike with a classic look: 9 speed friction shifting using the Dia 
> Compe shifters to XT derailleur, Rene Herse crankset, Paul brakes, the TRP 
> drilled brake levers, with Velocity Quill rims on Deore hubs. 
>
> [image: IMG_2739.jpeg]
>
>
>
>
>
> That said, as beautiful as this bike is, I haven't been able to get 
> comfortable on it. I am too stretched out. I have tried raising the bars a 
> bit from these pics, but fundamentally I think the reach is too long. I 
> gave my height/PBH to Antonio at Rivendell, and they set the bike up with 
> an 80mm stem. I have ordered a 70mm version of the stem, though I'm 
> concerned that's getting pretty short. Next step if that's not enough is 
> try a shorter-reach handlebar, in a narrower size.  If that doesn't work I 
> fear I will need to sell the bike. I could replace the drops with upright 
> bars, but I already have the Cheviot and specifically wanted a drop-bar 
> endurance/all-roadish bike. 
>
> I get the need to raise the bars, but I don't want a situation where the 
> bars are 5" above the saddle. 
>
> Any thoughts on other ways to get this bike to fit better?
>
> Thanks!
> --Eitan (in Los Angeles)
>

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[RBW] Re: Intro post, pics of my RIvs, and a Homer fit question

[Joe Bernard]

What are the sizes of your Riv frames? 

On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 4:06:31 PM UTC-8 eitanz...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Thanks Bill,  I don't have my bike fit completey figure out yet. I used to 
> bike a lot more 20 years ago (mountain biking) and have recently gotten 
> back into riding. To your point, I am hoping to get a professional bike fit 
> sometime in the near future. (Nate Loyal seems well-recommended and 
> reviewed.)  Not cheap but likely one of the best bang for the buck bike 
> "upgrades." When I mention "endurance," I am referring more to "road bike 
> with more relaxed geometry than a race bike," than endurance athletics per 
> se. I am in decent shape but would like to be able to work up to  day-long 
> rides, which will require some work on aerobic endurance as well as 
> adjustments to bike and rider.  Currently I am significantly less 
> comfortable on the Homer than on the drop-bar Breezer Doppler Pro I have. I 
> was too stretched on that one until I switched out the bars. The bars I am 
> thinking of for the Homer are the Velo Orange Rando bars, which have about 
> a 10mm shorter reach than the Noodle, and will accomodate bar ends. 
>
> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 2:42:05 PM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> Here are a few thoughts:
>>
>> People who know exactly what works for them figure it out over a long 
>> time with lots of bikes, and have a set of numbers in their pocket so they 
>> can know before buying whether a particular will set up correctly for them. 
>>  It sounds like you don't have that all figured out for yourself.  Is that 
>> a reasonable assumption?
>>
>> People who don't have their fit completely figured out for themselves are 
>> usually well advised to get a fitting from an experienced fitter who 
>> understands the target use-case.  Can you find such a person?  Have you had 
>> anybody who knows about such things look at you while you are riding?  
>>
>> This is intended for an endurance/all-road use case.  Are you currently 
>> an endurance athlete?  Or do you aspire to be an endurance athlete?  Do you 
>> want the bike to fit the body you have, or the body you intend to have?  
>>
>> Those are my thoughts.  Best of luck
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 1:20:53 PM UTC-8 eitanz...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all, wanted to introduce myself and my bikes. Over the last six 
>>> months I went from zero to two Rivendells, and joined this group--though 
>>> this is my first post: First up, a Cheviot, picked up secondhand, as my 
>>> city bike.  Previous owner built this up swanky: Son, XTR,, Pacenti, Paul, 
>>> XT, etc. . added the front and rear racks. I also picked up a Riv 
>>> Happisack, which alternates with the YEPP mount. Apologies for the 
>>> distinctly un-glamorous garage pic:
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_2009.jpeg]
>>>
>>> I love this bike. It is exceedingly comfortable and beautiful. 
>>>
>>> Last month I took delivery of a Homer,  which I had built up to be a 
>>> zippy road bike with a classic look: 9 speed friction shifting using the 
>>> Dia Compe shifters to XT derailleur, Rene Herse crankset, Paul brakes, the 
>>> TRP drilled brake levers, with Velocity Quill rims on Deore hubs. 
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_2739.jpeg]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That said, as beautiful as this bike is, I haven't been able to get 
>>> comfortable on it. I am too stretched out. I have tried raising the bars a 
>>> bit from these pics, but fundamentally I think the reach is too long. I 
>>> gave my height/PBH to Antonio at Rivendell, and they set the bike up with 
>>> an 80mm stem. I have ordered a 70mm version of the stem, though I'm 
>>> concerned that's getting pretty short. Next step if that's not enough is 
>>> try a shorter-reach handlebar, in a narrower size.  If that doesn't work I 
>>> fear I will need to sell the bike. I could replace the drops with upright 
>>> bars, but I already have the Cheviot and specifically wanted a drop-bar 
>>> endurance/all-roadish bike. 
>>>
>>> I get the need to raise the bars, but I don't want a situation where the 
>>> bars are 5" above the saddle. 
>>>
>>> Any thoughts on other ways to get this bike to fit better?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> --Eitan (in Los Angeles)
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Intro post, pics of my RIvs, and a Homer fit question

['John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I suggest measuring the distance form the tip of the saddle to the line 
between the brake levers on the Breezer if this bike fits you.  Measure the 
same on the AHH.   I think you will find the Breezer has a shorter 
distance.  You can then see how much length reduction each change will  
make.

The seat tube setback for the 2 bikes is calculated using  SH * cos 
STA.   SH = Saddle Height,  STA =seat tube angle
Calc for each and take the difference.  See if you can move the AHH saddle 
forward (per Bill L's suggestion) to cancel the difference.

All AHH have a 71.5° STA.  If your SH = 83cm (just a guess) and the Breezer 
STA is 73°, the AHH is setback by 21mm vs the Breezer.   You probably can 
move the AHH full forward to make up the seat tube setback

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ


On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 7:06:31 PM UTC-5 Ethan K wrote:

> Thanks Bill,  I don't have my bike fit completey figure out yet. I used to 
> bike a lot more 20 years ago (mountain biking) and have recently gotten 
> back into riding. To your point, I am hoping to get a professional bike fit 
> sometime in the near future. (Nate Loyal seems well-recommended and 
> reviewed.)  Not cheap but likely one of the best bang for the buck bike 
> "upgrades." When I mention "endurance," I am referring more to "road bike 
> with more relaxed geometry than a race bike," than endurance athletics per 
> se. I am in decent shape but would like to be able to work up to  day-long 
> rides, which will require some work on aerobic endurance as well as 
> adjustments to bike and rider.  Currently I am significantly less 
> comfortable on the Homer than on the drop-bar Breezer Doppler Pro I have. I 
> was too stretched on that one until I switched out the bars. The bars I am 
> thinking of for the Homer are the Velo Orange Rando bars, which have about 
> a 10mm shorter reach than the Noodle, and will accomodate bar ends. 
>
> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 2:42:05 PM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> Here are a few thoughts:
>>
>> People who know exactly what works for them figure it out over a long 
>> time with lots of bikes, and have a set of numbers in their pocket so they 
>> can know before buying whether a particular will set up correctly for them. 
>>  It sounds like you don't have that all figured out for yourself.  Is that 
>> a reasonable assumption?
>>
>> People who don't have their fit completely figured out for themselves are 
>> usually well advised to get a fitting from an experienced fitter who 
>> understands the target use-case.  Can you find such a person?  Have you had 
>> anybody who knows about such things look at you while you are riding?  
>>
>> This is intended for an endurance/all-road use case.  Are you currently 
>> an endurance athlete?  Or do you aspire to be an endurance athlete?  Do you 
>> want the bike to fit the body you have, or the body you intend to have?  
>>
>> Those are my thoughts.  Best of luck
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 1:20:53 PM UTC-8 eitanz...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all, wanted to introduce myself and my bikes. Over the last six 
>>> months I went from zero to two Rivendells, and joined this group--though 
>>> this is my first post: First up, a Cheviot, picked up secondhand, as my 
>>> city bike.  Previous owner built this up swanky: Son, XTR,, Pacenti, Paul, 
>>> XT, etc. . added the front and rear racks. I also picked up a Riv 
>>> Happisack, which alternates with the YEPP mount. Apologies for the 
>>> distinctly un-glamorous garage pic:
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_2009.jpeg]
>>>
>>> I love this bike. It is exceedingly comfortable and beautiful. 
>>>
>>> Last month I took delivery of a Homer,  which I had built up to be a 
>>> zippy road bike with a classic look: 9 speed friction shifting using the 
>>> Dia Compe shifters to XT derailleur, Rene Herse crankset, Paul brakes, the 
>>> TRP drilled brake levers, with Velocity Quill rims on Deore hubs. 
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_2739.jpeg]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That said, as beautiful as this bike is, I haven't been able to get 
>>> comfortable on it. I am too stretched out. I have tried raising the bars a 
>>> bit from these pics, but fundamentally I think the reach is too long. I 
>>> gave my height/PBH to Antonio at Rivendell, and they set the bike up with 
>>> an 80mm stem. I have ordered a 70mm version of the stem, though I'm 
>>> concerned that's getting pretty short. Next step if that's not enough is 
>>> try a shorter-reach handlebar, in a narrower size.  If that doesn't work I 
>>> fear I will need to sell the bike. I could replace the drops with upright 
>>> bars, but I already have the Cheviot and specifically wanted a drop-bar 
>>> endurance/all-roadish bike. 
>>>
>>> I get the need to raise the bars, but I don't want a situation where the 
>>> bars are 5" above the saddle. 
>>>
>>> Any thoughts on other ways to get this bike to fit better?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> --Eitan (in Los Angeles)

[RBW] Re: Intro post, pics of my RIvs, and a Homer fit question

[Bill Lindsay]

When comparing, give a good look at seat tube angle.  Rivendells are more 
laid back than most.  Many people just slide their saddle all the way back 
out of habit, and on a Rivendell, that may put you an inch or more further 
back than on some other bikes with a 74 degree seat tube angle.  If the 
Homer indeed has a slacker seat tube angle, then you'd need to run the 
saddle further forward on the rails to get the same butt to feet position 
as your "known good" machine.  

Good luck with the exploration and experimentation
Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 5:00:29 PM UTC-8 ian m wrote:

> You can compare the geometry of the Homer against your Breezer on 
> bikeinsights.com. Worth a look to find the differences
>
> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 7:06:31 PM UTC-5 eitanz...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Bill,  I don't have my bike fit completey figure out yet. I used 
>> to bike a lot more 20 years ago (mountain biking) and have recently gotten 
>> back into riding. To your point, I am hoping to get a professional bike fit 
>> sometime in the near future. (Nate Loyal seems well-recommended and 
>> reviewed.)  Not cheap but likely one of the best bang for the buck bike 
>> "upgrades." When I mention "endurance," I am referring more to "road bike 
>> with more relaxed geometry than a race bike," than endurance athletics per 
>> se. I am in decent shape but would like to be able to work up to  day-long 
>> rides, which will require some work on aerobic endurance as well as 
>> adjustments to bike and rider.  Currently I am significantly less 
>> comfortable on the Homer than on the drop-bar Breezer Doppler Pro I have. I 
>> was too stretched on that one until I switched out the bars. The bars I am 
>> thinking of for the Homer are the Velo Orange Rando bars, which have about 
>> a 10mm shorter reach than the Noodle, and will accomodate bar ends. 
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 2:42:05 PM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> Here are a few thoughts:
>>>
>>> People who know exactly what works for them figure it out over a long 
>>> time with lots of bikes, and have a set of numbers in their pocket so they 
>>> can know before buying whether a particular will set up correctly for them. 
>>>  It sounds like you don't have that all figured out for yourself.  Is that 
>>> a reasonable assumption?
>>>
>>> People who don't have their fit completely figured out for themselves 
>>> are usually well advised to get a fitting from an experienced fitter who 
>>> understands the target use-case.  Can you find such a person?  Have you had 
>>> anybody who knows about such things look at you while you are riding?  
>>>
>>> This is intended for an endurance/all-road use case.  Are you currently 
>>> an endurance athlete?  Or do you aspire to be an endurance athlete?  Do you 
>>> want the bike to fit the body you have, or the body you intend to have?  
>>>
>>> Those are my thoughts.  Best of luck
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 1:20:53 PM UTC-8 eitanz...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hi all, wanted to introduce myself and my bikes. Over the last six 
 months I went from zero to two Rivendells, and joined this group--though 
 this is my first post: First up, a Cheviot, picked up secondhand, as my 
 city bike.  Previous owner built this up swanky: Son, XTR,, Pacenti, Paul, 
 XT, etc. . added the front and rear racks. I also picked up a Riv 
 Happisack, which alternates with the YEPP mount. Apologies for the 
 distinctly un-glamorous garage pic:


 [image: IMG_2009.jpeg]

 I love this bike. It is exceedingly comfortable and beautiful. 

 Last month I took delivery of a Homer,  which I had built up to be a 
 zippy road bike with a classic look: 9 speed friction shifting using the 
 Dia Compe shifters to XT derailleur, Rene Herse crankset, Paul brakes, the 
 TRP drilled brake levers, with Velocity Quill rims on Deore hubs. 

 [image: IMG_2739.jpeg]





 That said, as beautiful as this bike is, I haven't been able to get 
 comfortable on it. I am too stretched out. I have tried raising the bars a 
 bit from these pics, but fundamentally I think the reach is too long. I 
 gave my height/PBH to Antonio at Rivendell, and they set the bike up with 
 an 80mm stem. I have ordered a 70mm version of the stem, though I'm 
 concerned that's getting pretty short. Next step if that's not enough is 
 try a shorter-reach handlebar, in a narrower size.  If that doesn't work I 
 fear I will need to sell the bike. I could replace the drops with upright 
 bars, but I already have the Cheviot and specifically wanted a drop-bar 
 endurance/all-roadish bike. 

 I get the need to raise the bars, but I don't want a situation where 
 the bars are 5" above the saddle. 

 Any thoughts on other ways to get this bike to fit

[RBW] Re: Intro post, pics of my RIvs, and a Homer fit question

[ian m]

You can compare the geometry of the Homer against your Breezer on 
bikeinsights.com. Worth a look to find the differences

On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 7:06:31 PM UTC-5 eitanz...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Thanks Bill,  I don't have my bike fit completey figure out yet. I used to 
> bike a lot more 20 years ago (mountain biking) and have recently gotten 
> back into riding. To your point, I am hoping to get a professional bike fit 
> sometime in the near future. (Nate Loyal seems well-recommended and 
> reviewed.)  Not cheap but likely one of the best bang for the buck bike 
> "upgrades." When I mention "endurance," I am referring more to "road bike 
> with more relaxed geometry than a race bike," than endurance athletics per 
> se. I am in decent shape but would like to be able to work up to  day-long 
> rides, which will require some work on aerobic endurance as well as 
> adjustments to bike and rider.  Currently I am significantly less 
> comfortable on the Homer than on the drop-bar Breezer Doppler Pro I have. I 
> was too stretched on that one until I switched out the bars. The bars I am 
> thinking of for the Homer are the Velo Orange Rando bars, which have about 
> a 10mm shorter reach than the Noodle, and will accomodate bar ends. 
>
> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 2:42:05 PM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> Here are a few thoughts:
>>
>> People who know exactly what works for them figure it out over a long 
>> time with lots of bikes, and have a set of numbers in their pocket so they 
>> can know before buying whether a particular will set up correctly for them. 
>>  It sounds like you don't have that all figured out for yourself.  Is that 
>> a reasonable assumption?
>>
>> People who don't have their fit completely figured out for themselves are 
>> usually well advised to get a fitting from an experienced fitter who 
>> understands the target use-case.  Can you find such a person?  Have you had 
>> anybody who knows about such things look at you while you are riding?  
>>
>> This is intended for an endurance/all-road use case.  Are you currently 
>> an endurance athlete?  Or do you aspire to be an endurance athlete?  Do you 
>> want the bike to fit the body you have, or the body you intend to have?  
>>
>> Those are my thoughts.  Best of luck
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 1:20:53 PM UTC-8 eitanz...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all, wanted to introduce myself and my bikes. Over the last six 
>>> months I went from zero to two Rivendells, and joined this group--though 
>>> this is my first post: First up, a Cheviot, picked up secondhand, as my 
>>> city bike.  Previous owner built this up swanky: Son, XTR,, Pacenti, Paul, 
>>> XT, etc. . added the front and rear racks. I also picked up a Riv 
>>> Happisack, which alternates with the YEPP mount. Apologies for the 
>>> distinctly un-glamorous garage pic:
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_2009.jpeg]
>>>
>>> I love this bike. It is exceedingly comfortable and beautiful. 
>>>
>>> Last month I took delivery of a Homer,  which I had built up to be a 
>>> zippy road bike with a classic look: 9 speed friction shifting using the 
>>> Dia Compe shifters to XT derailleur, Rene Herse crankset, Paul brakes, the 
>>> TRP drilled brake levers, with Velocity Quill rims on Deore hubs. 
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_2739.jpeg]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That said, as beautiful as this bike is, I haven't been able to get 
>>> comfortable on it. I am too stretched out. I have tried raising the bars a 
>>> bit from these pics, but fundamentally I think the reach is too long. I 
>>> gave my height/PBH to Antonio at Rivendell, and they set the bike up with 
>>> an 80mm stem. I have ordered a 70mm version of the stem, though I'm 
>>> concerned that's getting pretty short. Next step if that's not enough is 
>>> try a shorter-reach handlebar, in a narrower size.  If that doesn't work I 
>>> fear I will need to sell the bike. I could replace the drops with upright 
>>> bars, but I already have the Cheviot and specifically wanted a drop-bar 
>>> endurance/all-roadish bike. 
>>>
>>> I get the need to raise the bars, but I don't want a situation where the 
>>> bars are 5" above the saddle. 
>>>
>>> Any thoughts on other ways to get this bike to fit better?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> --Eitan (in Los Angeles)
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Intro post, pics of my RIvs, and a Homer fit question

[Ethan K]

Thanks Bill,  I don't have my bike fit completey figure out yet. I used to 
bike a lot more 20 years ago (mountain biking) and have recently gotten 
back into riding. To your point, I am hoping to get a professional bike fit 
sometime in the near future. (Nate Loyal seems well-recommended and 
reviewed.)  Not cheap but likely one of the best bang for the buck bike 
"upgrades." When I mention "endurance," I am referring more to "road bike 
with more relaxed geometry than a race bike," than endurance athletics per 
se. I am in decent shape but would like to be able to work up to  day-long 
rides, which will require some work on aerobic endurance as well as 
adjustments to bike and rider.  Currently I am significantly less 
comfortable on the Homer than on the drop-bar Breezer Doppler Pro I have. I 
was too stretched on that one until I switched out the bars. The bars I am 
thinking of for the Homer are the Velo Orange Rando bars, which have about 
a 10mm shorter reach than the Noodle, and will accomodate bar ends. 

On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 2:42:05 PM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Here are a few thoughts:
>
> People who know exactly what works for them figure it out over a long time 
> with lots of bikes, and have a set of numbers in their pocket so they can 
> know before buying whether a particular will set up correctly for them.  It 
> sounds like you don't have that all figured out for yourself.  Is that a 
> reasonable assumption?
>
> People who don't have their fit completely figured out for themselves are 
> usually well advised to get a fitting from an experienced fitter who 
> understands the target use-case.  Can you find such a person?  Have you had 
> anybody who knows about such things look at you while you are riding?  
>
> This is intended for an endurance/all-road use case.  Are you currently an 
> endurance athlete?  Or do you aspire to be an endurance athlete?  Do you 
> want the bike to fit the body you have, or the body you intend to have?  
>
> Those are my thoughts.  Best of luck
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 1:20:53 PM UTC-8 eitanz...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all, wanted to introduce myself and my bikes. Over the last six months 
>> I went from zero to two Rivendells, and joined this group--though this is 
>> my first post: First up, a Cheviot, picked up secondhand, as my city bike. 
>>  Previous owner built this up swanky: Son, XTR,, Pacenti, Paul, XT, etc. . 
>> added the front and rear racks. I also picked up a Riv Happisack, which 
>> alternates with the YEPP mount. Apologies for the distinctly un-glamorous 
>> garage pic:
>>
>>
>> [image: IMG_2009.jpeg]
>>
>> I love this bike. It is exceedingly comfortable and beautiful. 
>>
>> Last month I took delivery of a Homer,  which I had built up to be a 
>> zippy road bike with a classic look: 9 speed friction shifting using the 
>> Dia Compe shifters to XT derailleur, Rene Herse crankset, Paul brakes, the 
>> TRP drilled brake levers, with Velocity Quill rims on Deore hubs. 
>>
>> [image: IMG_2739.jpeg]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> That said, as beautiful as this bike is, I haven't been able to get 
>> comfortable on it. I am too stretched out. I have tried raising the bars a 
>> bit from these pics, but fundamentally I think the reach is too long. I 
>> gave my height/PBH to Antonio at Rivendell, and they set the bike up with 
>> an 80mm stem. I have ordered a 70mm version of the stem, though I'm 
>> concerned that's getting pretty short. Next step if that's not enough is 
>> try a shorter-reach handlebar, in a narrower size.  If that doesn't work I 
>> fear I will need to sell the bike. I could replace the drops with upright 
>> bars, but I already have the Cheviot and specifically wanted a drop-bar 
>> endurance/all-roadish bike. 
>>
>> I get the need to raise the bars, but I don't want a situation where the 
>> bars are 5" above the saddle. 
>>
>> Any thoughts on other ways to get this bike to fit better?
>>
>> Thanks!
>> --Eitan (in Los Angeles)
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Intro post, pics of my RIvs, and a Homer fit question

[Cody Marvin]

I've had similar reach issues before, including on my Sam Hillborne. I've
found I like the Soma Hwy One and the Nitto/Blue Lug Fairweather 174 bars.
They both have shorter reach and less drop than the Noodle (I'm guessing
that's what you have?). The drops on the Soma bars come back pretty far and
can make things feel a little cramped with bar ends, but I still like and
use them (I suppose you could also cut them down). The Blue Lug bars are
maybe a better design for bar ends, but I think they're often out of stock.

Cody, Chicago

On Wed, Feb 7, 2024 at 4:42 PM Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> Here are a few thoughts:
>
> People who know exactly what works for them figure it out over a long time
> with lots of bikes, and have a set of numbers in their pocket so they can
> know before buying whether a particular will set up correctly for them.  It
> sounds like you don't have that all figured out for yourself.  Is that a
> reasonable assumption?
>
> People who don't have their fit completely figured out for themselves are
> usually well advised to get a fitting from an experienced fitter who
> understands the target use-case.  Can you find such a person?  Have you had
> anybody who knows about such things look at you while you are riding?
>
> This is intended for an endurance/all-road use case.  Are you currently an
> endurance athlete?  Or do you aspire to be an endurance athlete?  Do you
> want the bike to fit the body you have, or the body you intend to have?
>
> Those are my thoughts.  Best of luck
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 1:20:53 PM UTC-8 eitanz...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all, wanted to introduce myself and my bikes. Over the last six months
>> I went from zero to two Rivendells, and joined this group--though this is
>> my first post: First up, a Cheviot, picked up secondhand, as my city bike.
>> Previous owner built this up swanky: Son, XTR,, Pacenti, Paul, XT, etc. .
>> added the front and rear racks. I also picked up a Riv Happisack, which
>> alternates with the YEPP mount. Apologies for the distinctly un-glamorous
>> garage pic:
>>
>>
>> [image: IMG_2009.jpeg]
>>
>> I love this bike. It is exceedingly comfortable and beautiful.
>>
>> Last month I took delivery of a Homer,  which I had built up to be a
>> zippy road bike with a classic look: 9 speed friction shifting using the
>> Dia Compe shifters to XT derailleur, Rene Herse crankset, Paul brakes, the
>> TRP drilled brake levers, with Velocity Quill rims on Deore hubs.
>>
>> [image: IMG_2739.jpeg]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> That said, as beautiful as this bike is, I haven't been able to get
>> comfortable on it. I am too stretched out. I have tried raising the bars a
>> bit from these pics, but fundamentally I think the reach is too long. I
>> gave my height/PBH to Antonio at Rivendell, and they set the bike up with
>> an 80mm stem. I have ordered a 70mm version of the stem, though I'm
>> concerned that's getting pretty short. Next step if that's not enough is
>> try a shorter-reach handlebar, in a narrower size.  If that doesn't work I
>> fear I will need to sell the bike. I could replace the drops with upright
>> bars, but I already have the Cheviot and specifically wanted a drop-bar
>> endurance/all-roadish bike.
>>
>> I get the need to raise the bars, but I don't want a situation where the
>> bars are 5" above the saddle.
>>
>> Any thoughts on other ways to get this bike to fit better?
>>
>> Thanks!
>> --Eitan (in Los Angeles)
>>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/29d0ef43-fd3a-4a7d-a6c8-5e4e59b03543n%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>

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[RBW] Re: Intro post, pics of my RIvs, and a Homer fit question

[John Bokman]

I would try the shorter stem. I have a Sam that I initially thought was too 
long for me, even though I'm smack dab in the middle of the charts for PBH 
sizing. (My legs are long, my torso not so much.) I installed a 7 cm stem 
(from a  10 cm ) and it made enough of a difference for me to get 
comfortable. I could probably go to an even shorter stem (I'm using Nitto 
tecnomic) but the 7cm stem seems short enough. If you are using a 
Technomic, I believe you can get as short as a 5 cm (could be wrong, but 
I'm pretty sure you can get a 6, anyway). In my case, as I have become more 
flexible, with better bike posture, I have noticed a long top tube does not 
cause me undue problems. Just something to consider - or not.

John
Portland OR

On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 2:42:05 PM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Here are a few thoughts:
>
> People who know exactly what works for them figure it out over a long time 
> with lots of bikes, and have a set of numbers in their pocket so they can 
> know before buying whether a particular will set up correctly for them.  It 
> sounds like you don't have that all figured out for yourself.  Is that a 
> reasonable assumption?
>
> People who don't have their fit completely figured out for themselves are 
> usually well advised to get a fitting from an experienced fitter who 
> understands the target use-case.  Can you find such a person?  Have you had 
> anybody who knows about such things look at you while you are riding?  
>
> This is intended for an endurance/all-road use case.  Are you currently an 
> endurance athlete?  Or do you aspire to be an endurance athlete?  Do you 
> want the bike to fit the body you have, or the body you intend to have?  
>
> Those are my thoughts.  Best of luck
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 1:20:53 PM UTC-8 eitanz...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all, wanted to introduce myself and my bikes. Over the last six months 
>> I went from zero to two Rivendells, and joined this group--though this is 
>> my first post: First up, a Cheviot, picked up secondhand, as my city bike. 
>>  Previous owner built this up swanky: Son, XTR,, Pacenti, Paul, XT, etc. . 
>> added the front and rear racks. I also picked up a Riv Happisack, which 
>> alternates with the YEPP mount. Apologies for the distinctly un-glamorous 
>> garage pic:
>>
>>
>> [image: IMG_2009.jpeg]
>>
>> I love this bike. It is exceedingly comfortable and beautiful. 
>>
>> Last month I took delivery of a Homer,  which I had built up to be a 
>> zippy road bike with a classic look: 9 speed friction shifting using the 
>> Dia Compe shifters to XT derailleur, Rene Herse crankset, Paul brakes, the 
>> TRP drilled brake levers, with Velocity Quill rims on Deore hubs. 
>>
>> [image: IMG_2739.jpeg]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> That said, as beautiful as this bike is, I haven't been able to get 
>> comfortable on it. I am too stretched out. I have tried raising the bars a 
>> bit from these pics, but fundamentally I think the reach is too long. I 
>> gave my height/PBH to Antonio at Rivendell, and they set the bike up with 
>> an 80mm stem. I have ordered a 70mm version of the stem, though I'm 
>> concerned that's getting pretty short. Next step if that's not enough is 
>> try a shorter-reach handlebar, in a narrower size.  If that doesn't work I 
>> fear I will need to sell the bike. I could replace the drops with upright 
>> bars, but I already have the Cheviot and specifically wanted a drop-bar 
>> endurance/all-roadish bike. 
>>
>> I get the need to raise the bars, but I don't want a situation where the 
>> bars are 5" above the saddle. 
>>
>> Any thoughts on other ways to get this bike to fit better?
>>
>> Thanks!
>> --Eitan (in Los Angeles)
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Intro post, pics of my RIvs, and a Homer fit question

[Bill Lindsay]

Here are a few thoughts:

People who know exactly what works for them figure it out over a long time 
with lots of bikes, and have a set of numbers in their pocket so they can 
know before buying whether a particular will set up correctly for them.  It 
sounds like you don't have that all figured out for yourself.  Is that a 
reasonable assumption?

People who don't have their fit completely figured out for themselves are 
usually well advised to get a fitting from an experienced fitter who 
understands the target use-case.  Can you find such a person?  Have you had 
anybody who knows about such things look at you while you are riding?  

This is intended for an endurance/all-road use case.  Are you currently an 
endurance athlete?  Or do you aspire to be an endurance athlete?  Do you 
want the bike to fit the body you have, or the body you intend to have?  

Those are my thoughts.  Best of luck

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 1:20:53 PM UTC-8 eitanz...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Hi all, wanted to introduce myself and my bikes. Over the last six months 
> I went from zero to two Rivendells, and joined this group--though this is 
> my first post: First up, a Cheviot, picked up secondhand, as my city bike. 
>  Previous owner built this up swanky: Son, XTR,, Pacenti, Paul, XT, etc. . 
> added the front and rear racks. I also picked up a Riv Happisack, which 
> alternates with the YEPP mount. Apologies for the distinctly un-glamorous 
> garage pic:
>
>
> [image: IMG_2009.jpeg]
>
> I love this bike. It is exceedingly comfortable and beautiful. 
>
> Last month I took delivery of a Homer,  which I had built up to be a zippy 
> road bike with a classic look: 9 speed friction shifting using the Dia 
> Compe shifters to XT derailleur, Rene Herse crankset, Paul brakes, the TRP 
> drilled brake levers, with Velocity Quill rims on Deore hubs. 
>
> [image: IMG_2739.jpeg]
>
>
>
>
>
> That said, as beautiful as this bike is, I haven't been able to get 
> comfortable on it. I am too stretched out. I have tried raising the bars a 
> bit from these pics, but fundamentally I think the reach is too long. I 
> gave my height/PBH to Antonio at Rivendell, and they set the bike up with 
> an 80mm stem. I have ordered a 70mm version of the stem, though I'm 
> concerned that's getting pretty short. Next step if that's not enough is 
> try a shorter-reach handlebar, in a narrower size.  If that doesn't work I 
> fear I will need to sell the bike. I could replace the drops with upright 
> bars, but I already have the Cheviot and specifically wanted a drop-bar 
> endurance/all-roadish bike. 
>
> I get the need to raise the bars, but I don't want a situation where the 
> bars are 5" above the saddle. 
>
> Any thoughts on other ways to get this bike to fit better?
>
> Thanks!
> --Eitan (in Los Angeles)
>

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