[RBW] Re: Kickstand Props

[Doug H.]

Thanks for all of the informative feedback. I'll probably go with the 
Pletscher that Riv sells, with the boot as recommended.
Doug

On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 10:19:16 AM UTC-4, Doug H. wrote:
>
> I haven't had a kickstand on a bicycle since...I don't remember when. My 
> Mongoose BMX didn't have one back in the 80s and none since have been 
> adorned with one. But, I now see that equipping a bike to be self 
> supporting is logical and convenient. My plan is to order the Pletscher one 
> leg from Riv when it's back in stock. Any feedback about this stand or 
> others would be much appreciated.
>
> Doug
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand Props

[Tim Gavin]

My experience directly contradicts Eric D's*.
My two bikes (Riv Road, and '88 Schwinn KOM) with chainstay-mounted
kickstands are eager to fall over from front wheel flop.  My Riv Road has
fallen over (or nearly so) several times.  Even if I settle the front wheel
myself before taking my hand off, a 5lb load in the front rando bag will
still tip the bike over.

As Ron Mc suggested, a strap or bungie between the front wheel and down
tube keeps the bike stable on its rear kickstand.

*No offense to Eric D; there are probably tons of variables accounting for
the different experience.  How low is the kickstand mount (BB or rear
axle)?  How long is the kickstand itself?  How much front load, and load
location?  And front geometry, high or low trail, etc.

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 7:07 PM, Eric Daume  wrote:

> In my experience, a rear mounted kickstand is much more stable with a
> front load. The front wheel may flop over, but it doesn't take the bike
> down, whereas a front wheel flop seems to easily take down a mid mounted
> kick stand.
>
> Eric
>
> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 5:02 PM, Ron Mc  wrote:
>
>> Patrick, if you think about moment of inertia, the farther the center of
>> mass is away from the prop point, the lower the stability.
>> If you're standing a big rear load, a rear-mounted kickstand should be
>> more stable.
>> If you have loaded rando bag, the opposite is true and the mass of the
>> rando bag can flip the bike over the stand if the bike is leaning far
>> enough.
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand Props

[Eric Daume]

In my experience, a rear mounted kickstand is much more stable with a front
load. The front wheel may flop over, but it doesn't take the bike down,
whereas a front wheel flop seems to easily take down a mid mounted kick
stand.

Eric

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 5:02 PM, Ron Mc  wrote:

> Patrick, if you think about moment of inertia, the farther the center of
> mass is away from the prop point, the lower the stability.
> If you're standing a big rear load, a rear-mounted kickstand should be
> more stable.
> If you have loaded rando bag, the opposite is true and the mass of the
> rando bag can flip the bike over the stand if the bike is leaning far
> enough.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand Props

[Ron Mc]

Both of my bikes that won't fit a BB kickstand also have front bags.  


With the rear stand, they behave very well if I use a velcro strap to keep 
the front wheel and downtube aligned.  


On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 4:33:14 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> I've never had success with single leg bb stands and baskets; can't say 
> I've ever tried a rear dropout stand with a front basket; but think I can 
> see how a heavy front load might topple a bike with a rear dropout stand. I 
> can also see that a 2-legged stand mounted closer to the front might well 
> be more stable for a heavy front load. 
>
> So, Drew, the answer to your question is, in very technical terms, "it 
> depends."
>
> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 3:02 PM, Ron Mc  
> wrote:
>
>> Patrick, if you think about moment of inertia, the farther the center of 
>> mass is away from the prop point, the lower the stability.  
>> If you're standing a big rear load, a rear-mounted kickstand should be 
>> more stable.  
>> If you have loaded rando bag, the opposite is true and the mass of the 
>> rando bag can flip the bike over the stand if the bike is leaning far 
>> enough.  
>>
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>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand Props

[Patrick Moore]

I've never had success with single leg bb stands and baskets; can't say
I've ever tried a rear dropout stand with a front basket; but think I can
see how a heavy front load might topple a bike with a rear dropout stand. I
can also see that a 2-legged stand mounted closer to the front might well
be more stable for a heavy front load.

So, Drew, the answer to your question is, in very technical terms, "it
depends."

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 3:02 PM, Ron Mc  wrote:

> Patrick, if you think about moment of inertia, the farther the center of
> mass is away from the prop point, the lower the stability.
> If you're standing a big rear load, a rear-mounted kickstand should be
> more stable.
> If you have loaded rando bag, the opposite is true and the mass of the
> rando bag can flip the bike over the stand if the bike is leaning far
> enough.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand Props

[Ron Mc]

Patrick, if you think about moment of inertia, the farther the center of 
mass is away from the prop point, the lower the stability.  
If you're standing a big rear load, a rear-mounted kickstand should be more 
stable.  
If you have loaded rando bag, the opposite is true and the mass of the 
rando bag can flip the bike over the stand if the bike is leaning far 
enough.  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand Props

[Patrick Moore]

I can't answer "inherently," but practically, the answer is no, at least
for the stands I've used.

Does the front wheel flop? Yes, but if the stand is cut to the right
length, that affects the stability far less than with a single legged bb
area stand. Wheel position does affect stability more than with a 2-legger
bb stand, but if you angle the wheel right, the load stays up better than
with the 2-leggers, all earlier qualifications maintained.

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 12:57 PM, drew  wrote:

> ok, im interested. questions-
>
> Is the rear drop out area an inherently more stable place for a kickstand
> than the bottom bracket area?
> Is there any risk of chain/seatstay damage with those?
> Does that placement encourage more front floppage?
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand Props

[Patrick Moore]

Not at all in my experience, in which a dropout mounted Greenfield was much
more stable than either kind of bb-area mounted stand, single legged or
double legged. IME, which is extensive, the dropout mount was most stable,
the double legged Pletscher and VO bb mount stands next, and the single leg
bb area stand the least stable. This from years of loading rear panniers
asymmetrically and heavily with each type of stand.

I hear that there is a very wide double legger; in fact, saw it online
recently; perhaps that's better than a dropout mount stand; but IME again,
not the VO or the Pletscher.

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 2:04 PM, Ron Mc  wrote:

> drew, BB is definitely more stable with a kickstand.
> With my rear stand, I can support a front bag if I use a velcro strap
> around the front wheel and downtube
>
> Patrick, Pletscher also makes rear kickstands
> http://www.thorusa.com/accessories/pletscher.htm
>
> On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 1:57:44 PM UTC-5, drew wrote:
>>
>> ok, im interested. questions-
>>
>> Is the rear drop out area an inherently more stable place for a kickstand
>> than the bottom bracket area?
>> Is there any risk of chain/seatstay damage with those?
>> Does that placement encourage more front floppage?
>>
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[RBW] Re: Kickstand Props

[Ron Mc]

drew, BB is definitely more stable with a kickstand.  
With my rear stand, I can support a front bag if I use a velcro strap 
around the front wheel and downtube

Patrick, Pletscher also makes rear kickstands 
http://www.thorusa.com/accessories/pletscher.htm

On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 1:57:44 PM UTC-5, drew wrote:
>
> ok, im interested. questions-
>
> Is the rear drop out area an inherently more stable place for a kickstand 
> than the bottom bracket area?
> Is there any risk of chain/seatstay damage with those? 
> Does that placement encourage more front floppage?
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Kickstand Props

[drew]

ok, im interested. questions-

Is the rear drop out area an inherently more stable place for a kickstand 
than the bottom bracket area?
Is there any risk of chain/seatstay damage with those? 
Does that placement encourage more front floppage?

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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand Props

[Patrick Moore]

Does Pletscher make this sort of rear-mount single legger? A quick Google
shows that they do. At any rate, copy or not, the Greenfield is cheap and
available everywhere in the US, and it's only defect is that it is ugly and
heavy. It works fine, or at least the several I've installed have all
worked fine.

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 11:40 AM, René Sterental 
wrote:

> As I understand it, the Greenfield is an American copy of the Pletscher.
> Maybe I'm wrong... I have both, and in my experience, the Pletscher is a
> bit "tighter" meaning there's less play between the leg and the base.
>
> René
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand Props

[René Sterental]

As I understand it, the Greenfield is an American copy of the Pletscher.
Maybe I'm wrong... I have both, and in my experience, the Pletscher is a
bit "tighter" meaning there's less play between the leg and the base.

René

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 9:52 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> FWIW, back when I had a more or less dedicated grocery beater, after
> trying 2 or 3 different types of 2-legged stands and finding that none held
> the bike up securely with asymmetrically and heavily (>15 lb each) rear
> panniers (and even with symmetrical loads, the bike could easily be knocked
> over), I switched to a cheap Greenfield stand mounted at the left rear
> dropout, and found that this did hold up unevenly loaded rear panniers, at
> least, it did so better than the 2-leggers.
>
> I recall trying the Pletscher and VO 2-leggers, but I know that there is
> another that is said to be considerably wider. At any rate, the Greenfield
> worked better for me than the first 2. And it's cheap. *And* it allowed
> me to wheel the bike thru the aisles with the stand down -- something you
> can't do with other types of stand and a fixed drivetrain.
>
> If I were to use a stand again (and I'm not planning to), I'd go back to
> the Greenfield; in fact, I kept it -- still have it.
>
> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 10:46 AM, Deacon Patrick 
> wrote:
>
>> Also, be aware of the obvious few facts that the more loaded your bike
>> the more challenging it is on the stand, as well as the rougher/looser the
>> terrain the less useful a stand. For the riding I do, I gave up stands as
>> they were more often than not "delayed falls" rather than stands. Grin. But
>> I'm a big ogre with big ogre loads in big ogre terrain, so I'm likely the
>> exception.
>>
>> With abandon,
>> Patrick
>>
>> On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 8:19:16 AM UTC-6, Doug H. wrote:
>>>
>>> I haven't had a kickstand on a bicycle since...I don't remember when.
>>>
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>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Kickstand Props

[Patrick Moore]

FWIW, back when I had a more or less dedicated grocery beater, after trying
2 or 3 different types of 2-legged stands and finding that none held the
bike up securely with asymmetrically and heavily (>15 lb each) rear
panniers (and even with symmetrical loads, the bike could easily be knocked
over), I switched to a cheap Greenfield stand mounted at the left rear
dropout, and found that this did hold up unevenly loaded rear panniers, at
least, it did so better than the 2-leggers.

I recall trying the Pletscher and VO 2-leggers, but I know that there is
another that is said to be considerably wider. At any rate, the Greenfield
worked better for me than the first 2. And it's cheap. *And* it allowed me
to wheel the bike thru the aisles with the stand down -- something you
can't do with other types of stand and a fixed drivetrain.

If I were to use a stand again (and I'm not planning to), I'd go back to
the Greenfield; in fact, I kept it -- still have it.

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 10:46 AM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:

> Also, be aware of the obvious few facts that the more loaded your bike the
> more challenging it is on the stand, as well as the rougher/looser the
> terrain the less useful a stand. For the riding I do, I gave up stands as
> they were more often than not "delayed falls" rather than stands. Grin. But
> I'm a big ogre with big ogre loads in big ogre terrain, so I'm likely the
> exception.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 8:19:16 AM UTC-6, Doug H. wrote:
>>
>> I haven't had a kickstand on a bicycle since...I don't remember when.
>>
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kickback for any referral resulting in fully paid, list-price contract. And
still more!  I am offering services in trade for a road bike, or frame and
parts, that are period compatible with my AM hub, circa 1937 to 1961. See
my website for what I do and what I charge; email for details.*

Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
Other professional writing services.
http://www.resumespecialties.com/
www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
**
**

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[RBW] Re: Kickstand Props

[Deacon Patrick]

Also, be aware of the obvious few facts that the more loaded your bike the 
more challenging it is on the stand, as well as the rougher/looser the 
terrain the less useful a stand. For the riding I do, I gave up stands as 
they were more often than not "delayed falls" rather than stands. Grin. But 
I'm a big ogre with big ogre loads in big ogre terrain, so I'm likely the 
exception.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 8:19:16 AM UTC-6, Doug H. wrote:
>
> I haven't had a kickstand on a bicycle since...I don't remember when.
>

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[RBW] Re: Kickstand Props

[drew]

i like the pletscher single. get the little foot too. Like Rene says, the 
double is not good for the kickstand plate. mine got bent with it, but i 
took it off before it pulled away from the chainstay.  i dont really like 
the idea of something that can rip welded metal apart on my bike, even with 
the additional top hardware. 

it is a shame, because the 2 leg kickstand is way more stable and really 
great for touring when you have a heavy, loaded, floppy bike. i have been 
curious about other, maybe less powerful, 2 leg stands, but havent seen any 
hyper convincing reviews. 

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[RBW] Re: Kickstand Props

[Ron Mc]

On, every bike that will take it, I have an Esge (Pletscher) stand - 
currently all singles.  
I have two bikes that the chainstay bridge was intentionally made too close 
to the BB to allow for a kickstand - it's to protect the light tubing from 
being crushed by the kickstand clamp.  
On both of those bikes I use this yuppie UpStand, which adds a steel boss 
at the Q/R skewer, and a strong magnet inside the carbon stand.  


It works quite well, clips to a bottle cage boss clamp when not in use. 
 But if your tires are 32mm or over, I recommend their 29er stand - 
otherwise the angle may flip your bike over
https://upstandingbicycle.com/upstand-bike-stand/

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