Re: [RBW] Re: Threadless Headset Questions

[Patrick Moore]

The technique I learned for initial adjustment of threadless systems is to
tighten the preload until the bearings just slightly bind when you do the
"swing the front wheel" manoeuvre (hoist bike with front wheel dangling
downward, gently sway bike back and forth so that the front wheel swings).
Back off until the bearings just *don't* bind, tighten stem clamp. With
this method I don't have to readjust.



On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 5:30 PM hugh flynn  wrote:

> That was the larger part of my point, yes. Time spent in this life
> adjusting threaded headsets = statistically zero. Time spent adjusting
> threadless headsets = every time I swap a stem. Neither really amounts to
> enough time to give either a second thought, but the fact remains I've set
> threadless preload many more times than I have actually used my collection
> of headset wrenches.
>
> Hugh
>
> On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 10:50 AM Patrick Moore 
> wrote:
>
>> I get it; sorry, Hugh, I misunderstood. Yes, headset adjustment is rarely
>> needed for either type once done correctly.
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 8:20 AM Steve Palincsar  wrote:
>>
>>> Which is to say, headsets very seldom need to be adjusted.  Which indeed
>>> is Hugh's point: you may size time adjusting, but since you do it so
>>> infrequently in the big picture the savings are inconsequential.
>>>
>>> It's the same thing with coding: you optimize code in an inner loop,
>>> that executes a lot, not code that executes only once each time the program
>>> runs.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 4/15/19 10:12 AM, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
>>> Frequency? All the threadless headsets I've owned kept their adjustment
>>> at least as well as all the threaded ones I've used; and setting pre-load
>>> is far easier than setting bearing load on a threaded system and keeping it
>>> set while tightening the locknut.
>>>
>>> Patrick: threadless systems certainly have their disadvantages --
>>> largely that it's harder to adjust bar height -- but overall they are a
>>> heck of a lot easier to adjust than threaded ones.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 9:49 PM hugh flynn  wrote:
>>>
 The ease of adjustment for threadless stems is indeed so great that it
 is astounding how hard it can be to describe properly...

 That said, the gains offered by simplicity are offset by the frequency
 with which one has to do it. For all the claimed complexity of threaded
 headset adjustmemt, one doesn't have to fiddle with headset preload when
 changing or adjusting a quill stem.

 Hugh "net gain is null" Flynn
 Newburyport, MA
 --

>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Steve Palincsar
>>> Alexandria, Virginia
>>> USA
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> **
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Still 'round the corner there may waitA new road or a secret gate,And
>> though we pass them by today,Tomorrow we may come this wayAnd take the
>> hidden paths that runTowards the Moon or to the Sun.*
>> --- J.R.R. Tolkien
>> ---
>> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews
>> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching
>> Other professional writing services
>> Expensive! But good.
>> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique
>>
>> --
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>>
> --
> Hugh Flynn
> Newburyport, MA
>
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>


-- 



**





*Still 'round the corner there may waitA new road or a secret 

Re: [RBW] Re: Threadless Headset Questions

[hugh flynn]

That was the larger part of my point, yes. Time spent in this life
adjusting threaded headsets = statistically zero. Time spent adjusting
threadless headsets = every time I swap a stem. Neither really amounts to
enough time to give either a second thought, but the fact remains I've set
threadless preload many more times than I have actually used my collection
of headset wrenches.

Hugh

On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 10:50 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> I get it; sorry, Hugh, I misunderstood. Yes, headset adjustment is rarely
> needed for either type once done correctly.
>
> On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 8:20 AM Steve Palincsar  wrote:
>
>> Which is to say, headsets very seldom need to be adjusted.  Which indeed
>> is Hugh's point: you may size time adjusting, but since you do it so
>> infrequently in the big picture the savings are inconsequential.
>>
>> It's the same thing with coding: you optimize code in an inner loop, that
>> executes a lot, not code that executes only once each time the program runs.
>>
>>
>> On 4/15/19 10:12 AM, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> Frequency? All the threadless headsets I've owned kept their adjustment
>> at least as well as all the threaded ones I've used; and setting pre-load
>> is far easier than setting bearing load on a threaded system and keeping it
>> set while tightening the locknut.
>>
>> Patrick: threadless systems certainly have their disadvantages -- largely
>> that it's harder to adjust bar height -- but overall they are a heck of a
>> lot easier to adjust than threaded ones.
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 9:49 PM hugh flynn  wrote:
>>
>>> The ease of adjustment for threadless stems is indeed so great that it
>>> is astounding how hard it can be to describe properly...
>>>
>>> That said, the gains offered by simplicity are offset by the frequency
>>> with which one has to do it. For all the claimed complexity of threaded
>>> headset adjustmemt, one doesn't have to fiddle with headset preload when
>>> changing or adjusting a quill stem.
>>>
>>> Hugh "net gain is null" Flynn
>>> Newburyport, MA
>>> --
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Steve Palincsar
>> Alexandria, Virginia
>> USA
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
> **
>
>
>
>
>
> *Still 'round the corner there may waitA new road or a secret gate,And
> though we pass them by today,Tomorrow we may come this wayAnd take the
> hidden paths that runTowards the Moon or to the Sun.*
> --- J.R.R. Tolkien
> ---
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching
> Other professional writing services
> Expensive! But good.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique
>
> --
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>
-- 
Hugh Flynn
Newburyport, MA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Threadless Headset Questions

[Eric Daume]

But on the other hand, I remember mountain biking back in the day, when
every crash would involve straightening out the threaded stem before I
could get back on the trail. This never happens with threadless... though
maybe in part because I crash less now than I used to.

Eric

On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 6:24 PM 'Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> You’re right—I don’t do this often. However, in 2007 when I was near the
> finish of PBP and suffering from some pretty bad numbness in my hands, it
> was *so* helpful to be able to raise the stem easily on the road. That took
> some weight off my hands and allowed me to finish the ride (although my
> hands were tingly and a bit weak for several months after).
>
> --Eric Norris
> campyonly...@me.com
> @CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)
>
> On Apr 15, 2019, at 3:22 PM, William deRosset 
> wrote:
>
> >Try changing the height of your bars on the road with a threadless stem.
> If you set it up correctly (extra length in the steerer+ extra spacers), it
> can be done ... but it will take ten times longer than with a quill stem.
>
> Dear Eric,
>
> If one is in the habit of constantly changing one's bar height without
> making corresponding changes to one's stem extension, you are correct.
>
> If one adjusts both height and reach in tandem (necessary in my
> experience), then most quill setups (which do not have removable face
> plates) are a bigger pain than playing musical removable-faceplate stems.
>
> If one more-or-less sets the handlebar position and doesn't mess with it
> (most riders I know fall into this latter bin), then this disadvantage is
> not really a significant one.
>
> My René Herse has the awkward combination of a one-off clamp-on stem and
> threaded headset, and the only time it bugs me (besides aesthetically--it
> is not an elegant engineering solution in my opinion) is about every four
> years, when I travel by air with it and have to pull the fork. I could
> freely adjust the bar height, though...
>
> Finally, how often do you actually change stem height *during a ride*
> once your fit is dialed in? My frequency is zero (since 1976).
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Will
> William M. deRosset
> Fort Collins, CO
>
>
> On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 8:11:43 AM UTC-6, Eric Norris wrote:
>>
>> Try changing the height of your bars on the road with a threadless stem.
>> If you set it up correctly (extra length in the steerer+ extra spacers), it
>> can be done ... but it will take ten times longer than with a quill stem.
>>
>> OTOH, it’s impossible to get a threadless stem stuck inside the steerer,
>> which has happened on several of my standard-quill bikes.
>>
>> Eric N
>> www.CampyOnly.com 
>> CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com 
>> Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy
>>
>> On Apr 14, 2019, at 8:49 PM, hugh flynn  wrote:
>>
>> The ease of adjustment for threadless stems is indeed so great that it is
>> astounding how hard it can be to describe properly...
>>
>> That said, the gains offered by simplicity are offset by the frequency
>> with which one has to do it. For all the claimed complexity of threaded
>> headset adjustmemt, one doesn't have to fiddle with headset preload when
>> changing or adjusting a quill stem.
>>
>> Hugh "net gain is null" Flynn
>> Newburyport, MA
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 11:07 PM Drw  wrote:
>>
>>> Yes. This is what kept me away from threadless for so long. It seemed so
>>> complicated based on descriptions. In reality it’s super simple. So much so
>>> that I questioned what I was doing the first few times. “Is the stem bolt
>>> actually holding the fork on the bike?” Still runs thru my head.
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>
>> --
>> Hugh Flynn
>> Newburyport, MA
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>>
> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Threadless Headset Questions

['Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch]

You’re right—I don’t do this often. However, in 2007 when I was near the finish 
of PBP and suffering from some pretty bad numbness in my hands, it was *so* 
helpful to be able to raise the stem easily on the road. That took some weight 
off my hands and allowed me to finish the ride (although my hands were tingly 
and a bit weak for several months after).

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
@CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)

> On Apr 15, 2019, at 3:22 PM, William deRosset  wrote:
> 
> >Try changing the height of your bars on the road with a threadless stem. If 
> >you set it up correctly (extra length in the steerer+ extra spacers), it can 
> >be done ... but it will take ten times longer than with a quill stem.
> 
> Dear Eric,
> 
> If one is in the habit of constantly changing one's bar height without making 
> corresponding changes to one's stem extension, you are correct. 
> 
> If one adjusts both height and reach in tandem (necessary in my experience), 
> then most quill setups (which do not have removable face plates) are a bigger 
> pain than playing musical removable-faceplate stems.
> 
> If one more-or-less sets the handlebar position and doesn't mess with it 
> (most riders I know fall into this latter bin), then this disadvantage is not 
> really a significant one. 
> 
> My René Herse has the awkward combination of a one-off clamp-on stem and 
> threaded headset, and the only time it bugs me (besides aesthetically--it is 
> not an elegant engineering solution in my opinion) is about every four years, 
> when I travel by air with it and have to pull the fork. I could freely adjust 
> the bar height, though...
> 
> Finally, how often do you actually change stem height during a ride once your 
> fit is dialed in? My frequency is zero (since 1976).
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Will
> William M. deRosset
> Fort Collins, CO
>  
> 
> On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 8:11:43 AM UTC-6, Eric Norris wrote:
> Try changing the height of your bars on the road with a threadless stem. If 
> you set it up correctly (extra length in the steerer+ extra spacers), it can 
> be done ... but it will take ten times longer than with a quill stem.
> 
> OTOH, it’s impossible to get a threadless stem stuck inside the steerer, 
> which has happened on several of my standard-quill bikes.
> 
> Eric N
> www.CampyOnly.com 
> CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com 
> Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy
> 
> On Apr 14, 2019, at 8:49 PM, hugh flynn > wrote:
> 
>> The ease of adjustment for threadless stems is indeed so great that it is 
>> astounding how hard it can be to describe properly...
>> 
>> That said, the gains offered by simplicity are offset by the frequency with 
>> which one has to do it. For all the claimed complexity of threaded headset 
>> adjustmemt, one doesn't have to fiddle with headset preload when changing or 
>> adjusting a quill stem.
>> 
>> Hugh "net gain is null" Flynn
>> Newburyport, MA
>> 
>> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 11:07 PM Drw > wrote:
>> Yes. This is what kept me away from threadless for so long. It seemed so 
>> complicated based on descriptions. In reality it’s super simple. So much so 
>> that I questioned what I was doing the first few times. “Is the stem bolt 
>> actually holding the fork on the bike?” Still runs thru my head. 
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com <>.
>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com <>.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch 
>> .
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout 
>> .
>> -- 
>> Hugh Flynn
>> Newburyport, MA
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com <>.
>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com <>.
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>> .
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout 
>> .
> 
> 
> -- 
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> .
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> 

Re: [RBW] Re: Threadless Headset Questions

[William deRosset]

>Try changing the height of your bars on the road with a threadless stem. 
If you set it up correctly (extra length in the steerer+ extra spacers), it 
can be done ... but it will take ten times longer than with a quill stem.

Dear Eric,

If one is in the habit of constantly changing one's bar height without 
making corresponding changes to one's stem extension, you are correct. 

If one adjusts both height and reach in tandem (necessary in my 
experience), then most quill setups (which do not have removable face 
plates) are a bigger pain than playing musical removable-faceplate stems.

If one more-or-less sets the handlebar position and doesn't mess with it 
(most riders I know fall into this latter bin), then this disadvantage is 
not really a significant one. 

My René Herse has the awkward combination of a one-off clamp-on stem and 
threaded headset, and the only time it bugs me (besides aesthetically--it 
is not an elegant engineering solution in my opinion) is about every four 
years, when I travel by air with it and have to pull the fork. I could 
freely adjust the bar height, though...

Finally, how often do you actually change stem height *during a ride* once 
your fit is dialed in? My frequency is zero (since 1976).

Best Regards,

Will
William M. deRosset
Fort Collins, CO
 

On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 8:11:43 AM UTC-6, Eric Norris wrote:
>
> Try changing the height of your bars on the road with a threadless stem. 
> If you set it up correctly (extra length in the steerer+ extra spacers), it 
> can be done ... but it will take ten times longer than with a quill stem.
>
> OTOH, it’s impossible to get a threadless stem stuck inside the steerer, 
> which has happened on several of my standard-quill bikes.
>
> Eric N
> www.CampyOnly.com
> CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com
> Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy
>
> On Apr 14, 2019, at 8:49 PM, hugh flynn > 
> wrote:
>
> The ease of adjustment for threadless stems is indeed so great that it is 
> astounding how hard it can be to describe properly...
>
> That said, the gains offered by simplicity are offset by the frequency 
> with which one has to do it. For all the claimed complexity of threaded 
> headset adjustmemt, one doesn't have to fiddle with headset preload when 
> changing or adjusting a quill stem.
>
> Hugh "net gain is null" Flynn
> Newburyport, MA
>
> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 11:07 PM Drw > 
> wrote:
>
>> Yes. This is what kept me away from threadless for so long. It seemed so 
>> complicated based on descriptions. In reality it’s super simple. So much so 
>> that I questioned what I was doing the first few times. “Is the stem bolt 
>> actually holding the fork on the bike?” Still runs thru my head. 
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com .
>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com 
>> .
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
> -- 
> Hugh Flynn
> Newburyport, MA
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> .
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Threadless Headset Questions

[George Schick]

One thing I found out the hard way about these threadless jobs - if you buy 
one that's cheap, you may also wind up with one that's low quality making 
it difficult, if not impossible, to adjust properly. I had a MTB that came 
with a threadless that was constantly loose all the time, no matter how 
carefully I tried to adjust it.  I finally removed the stem and took some 
careful measurements of everything with a digital caliper.  Turned out that 
the part of the stem that clamped around the steering tube was imperfectly 
made so that the bottom edges that sit on top of the headset bearing 
cartridge wouldn't line up evenly when tightened, therefore allowing the 
fork to wobble.  I replaced that stem with a higher quality (Ritchey) and 
everything has been perfectly smooth ever since.

On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 9:12:22 AM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Frequency? All the threadless headsets I've owned kept their adjustment at 
> least as well as all the threaded ones I've used; and setting pre-load is 
> far easier than setting bearing load on a threaded system and keeping it 
> set while tightening the locknut.
>
> Patrick: threadless systems certainly have their disadvantages -- largely 
> that it's harder to adjust bar height -- but overall they are a heck of a 
> lot easier to adjust than threaded ones.
>
> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 9:49 PM hugh flynn  > wrote:
>
>> The ease of adjustment for threadless stems is indeed so great that it is 
>> astounding how hard it can be to describe properly...
>>
>> That said, the gains offered by simplicity are offset by the frequency 
>> with which one has to do it. For all the claimed complexity of threaded 
>> headset adjustmemt, one doesn't have to fiddle with headset preload when 
>> changing or adjusting a quill stem.
>>
>> Hugh "net gain is null" Flynn
>> Newburyport, MA
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 11:07 PM Drw > 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes. This is what kept me away from threadless for so long. It seemed so 
>>> complicated based on descriptions. In reality it’s super simple. So much so 
>>> that I questioned what I was doing the first few times. “Is the stem bolt 
>>> actually holding the fork on the bike?” Still runs thru my head. 
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com .
>>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com 
>>> .
>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>
>> -- 
>> Hugh Flynn
>> Newburyport, MA
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com .
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>> .
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
>
>
>
> **
>
>
>
>
>
> *Still 'round the corner there may waitA new road or a secret gate,And 
> though we pass them by today,Tomorrow we may come this wayAnd take the 
> hidden paths that runTowards the Moon or to the Sun.*
> --- J.R.R. Tolkien
> ---
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching
> Other professional writing services
> Expensive! But good.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Threadless Headset Questions

[Patrick Moore]

I get it; sorry, Hugh, I misunderstood. Yes, headset adjustment is rarely
needed for either type once done correctly.

On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 8:20 AM Steve Palincsar  wrote:

> Which is to say, headsets very seldom need to be adjusted.  Which indeed
> is Hugh's point: you may size time adjusting, but since you do it so
> infrequently in the big picture the savings are inconsequential.
>
> It's the same thing with coding: you optimize code in an inner loop, that
> executes a lot, not code that executes only once each time the program runs.
>
>
> On 4/15/19 10:12 AM, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Frequency? All the threadless headsets I've owned kept their adjustment at
> least as well as all the threaded ones I've used; and setting pre-load is
> far easier than setting bearing load on a threaded system and keeping it
> set while tightening the locknut.
>
> Patrick: threadless systems certainly have their disadvantages -- largely
> that it's harder to adjust bar height -- but overall they are a heck of a
> lot easier to adjust than threaded ones.
>
> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 9:49 PM hugh flynn  wrote:
>
>> The ease of adjustment for threadless stems is indeed so great that it is
>> astounding how hard it can be to describe properly...
>>
>> That said, the gains offered by simplicity are offset by the frequency
>> with which one has to do it. For all the claimed complexity of threaded
>> headset adjustmemt, one doesn't have to fiddle with headset preload when
>> changing or adjusting a quill stem.
>>
>> Hugh "net gain is null" Flynn
>> Newburyport, MA
>> --
>>
>
>
> --
> Steve Palincsar
> Alexandria, Virginia
> USA
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Threadless Headset Questions

[Steve Palincsar]

On 4/15/19 10:11 AM, 'Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:
Try changing the height of your bars on the road with a threadless 
stem. If you set it up correctly (extra length in the steerer+ extra 
spacers), it can be done ... but it will take ten times longer than 
with a quill stem.



Yes, and it'll require a headset adjustment too.




OTOH, it’s impossible to get a threadless stem stuck inside the 
steerer, which has happened on several of my standard-quill bikes.



Trade-offs.  Life is full of trade-offs.


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Re: [RBW] Re: Threadless Headset Questions

[Steve Palincsar]

Which is to say, headsets very seldom need to be adjusted.  Which indeed 
is Hugh's point: you may size time adjusting, but since you do it so 
infrequently in the big picture the savings are inconsequential.


It's the same thing with coding: you optimize code in an inner loop, 
that executes a lot, not code that executes only once each time the 
program runs.



On 4/15/19 10:12 AM, Patrick Moore wrote:
Frequency? All the threadless headsets I've owned kept their 
adjustment at least as well as all the threaded ones I've used; and 
setting pre-load is far easier than setting bearing load on a threaded 
system and keeping it set while tightening the locknut.


Patrick: threadless systems certainly have their disadvantages -- 
largely that it's harder to adjust bar height -- but overall they are 
a heck of a lot easier to adjust than threaded ones.


On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 9:49 PM hugh flynn > wrote:


The ease of adjustment for threadless stems is indeed so great
that it is astounding how hard it can be to describe properly...

That said, the gains offered by simplicity are offset by the
frequency with which one has to do it. For all the claimed
complexity of threaded headset adjustmemt, one doesn't have to
fiddle with headset preload when changing or adjusting a quill stem.

Hugh "net gain is null" Flynn
Newburyport, MA
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Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Threadless Headset Questions

[Patrick Moore]

Frequency? All the threadless headsets I've owned kept their adjustment at
least as well as all the threaded ones I've used; and setting pre-load is
far easier than setting bearing load on a threaded system and keeping it
set while tightening the locknut.

Patrick: threadless systems certainly have their disadvantages -- largely
that it's harder to adjust bar height -- but overall they are a heck of a
lot easier to adjust than threaded ones.

On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 9:49 PM hugh flynn  wrote:

> The ease of adjustment for threadless stems is indeed so great that it is
> astounding how hard it can be to describe properly...
>
> That said, the gains offered by simplicity are offset by the frequency
> with which one has to do it. For all the claimed complexity of threaded
> headset adjustmemt, one doesn't have to fiddle with headset preload when
> changing or adjusting a quill stem.
>
> Hugh "net gain is null" Flynn
> Newburyport, MA
>
> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 11:07 PM Drw  wrote:
>
>> Yes. This is what kept me away from threadless for so long. It seemed so
>> complicated based on descriptions. In reality it’s super simple. So much so
>> that I questioned what I was doing the first few times. “Is the stem bolt
>> actually holding the fork on the bike?” Still runs thru my head.
>>
>> --
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> --
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> Newburyport, MA
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Threadless Headset Questions

['Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Try changing the height of your bars on the road with a threadless stem. If you 
set it up correctly (extra length in the steerer+ extra spacers), it can be 
done ... but it will take ten times longer than with a quill stem.

OTOH, it’s impossible to get a threadless stem stuck inside the steerer, which 
has happened on several of my standard-quill bikes.

Eric N
www.CampyOnly.com
CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com
Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy

> On Apr 14, 2019, at 8:49 PM, hugh flynn  wrote:
> 
> The ease of adjustment for threadless stems is indeed so great that it is 
> astounding how hard it can be to describe properly...
> 
> That said, the gains offered by simplicity are offset by the frequency with 
> which one has to do it. For all the claimed complexity of threaded headset 
> adjustmemt, one doesn't have to fiddle with headset preload when changing or 
> adjusting a quill stem.
> 
> Hugh "net gain is null" Flynn
> Newburyport, MA
> 
>> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 11:07 PM Drw  wrote:
>> Yes. This is what kept me away from threadless for so long. It seemed so 
>> complicated based on descriptions. In reality it’s super simple. So much so 
>> that I questioned what I was doing the first few times. “Is the stem bolt 
>> actually holding the fork on the bike?” Still runs thru my head. 
>> 
>> -- 
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> Newburyport, MA
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[RBW] Re: Threadless Headset Questions

['Tom M' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Great video; thanks for the link.
Tom
Alexandira, VA

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[RBW] Re: Threadless Headset Questions

[Garth]

DP, this video may assist you. The fellow named WheeliePete from YT has a 
way of explaining the whole threadless system in an easy to understand 
fashion, complete with hand drawn blueprint of "how it works".   This is 
what I do appreciate about YT, the guys who post how-to videos in easily 
understandable manners.  Reminds me of my brother, a former military and 
airline flight mechanic who can simplify literally anything, as really 
everything is basically doohickeys we play around with. Adults give them 
important names and such and make them "big deals" for gain, kids call know 
them as toys and just play with them for the fun of fun ! 


   I've never had a threadless HS, and after watching this it's like, "oh, 
that was simple".   Threaded HS are also simple in their own way. Using 
lock nuts wasn't the only way . American Classic once made their Trilock HS 
that used a threaded collet and a 2.5mm wrench to adjust it. It was 
wonderfully simple but aluminum was not a good choice for the collet as it 
would crack over time. 

>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LTCthtmjD0


  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Threadless Headset Questions

[Benz, Sunnyvale, CA]

It may also interest the readers to know that the origin of such a…errr…
*whimsical* name came from the original iteration of Ibis Cycles, that was 
the purveyor of other whimsical names for bike components, such as the 
infamous Handjob rear cable stop on some of their frames, and the ugly 
welded Rosie Palm bar ends.


On Sunday, April 14, 2019 at 2:19:57 PM UTC-7, lconley wrote:
>
> The L stands for Limp. I will leave the rest to your imagination.
>
> On Sunday, April 14, 2019 at 4:56:15 PM UTC-4, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>>
>> And what does "LD" stand for?
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Threadless Headset Questions

[Ian A]

That's an argument for using one of these, Hugh! 
https://www.jensonusa.com/Problem-Solvers-Locking-Headset-Spacer (as already 
referenced by Bryan Cole in this thread).

I have the same idea, but with an integrated cable stop on my two threadless 
bikes. It makes swapping stems or changing bar height a lot easier.

IanA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Threadless Headset Questions

[S]

I would explain it this way: the cap holds everything in place while you center 
the stem and tighten the stem bolts. The stem is what actually holds everything 
safely and securely together. With the stem bolts tightened, you could, if you 
wanted, throw away the cap and go riding. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Threadless Headset Questions

[hugh flynn]

The ease of adjustment for threadless stems is indeed so great that it is
astounding how hard it can be to describe properly...

That said, the gains offered by simplicity are offset by the frequency with
which one has to do it. For all the claimed complexity of threaded headset
adjustmemt, one doesn't have to fiddle with headset preload when changing
or adjusting a quill stem.

Hugh "net gain is null" Flynn
Newburyport, MA

On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 11:07 PM Drw  wrote:

> Yes. This is what kept me away from threadless for so long. It seemed so
> complicated based on descriptions. In reality it’s super simple. So much so
> that I questioned what I was doing the first few times. “Is the stem bolt
> actually holding the fork on the bike?” Still runs thru my head.
>
> --
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Newburyport, MA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Threadless Headset Questions

[Drw]

Yes. This is what kept me away from threadless for so long. It seemed so 
complicated based on descriptions. In reality it’s super simple. So much so 
that I questioned what I was doing the first few times. “Is the stem bolt 
actually holding the fork on the bike?” Still runs thru my head. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Threadless Headset Questions

[Joe Bernard]

It may be easier to adjust threadless, but no one on this thread has explained 
it well. I'm not even going to try as I don't think I'm a trustworthy source 
for the info, either. For such a simple procedure, it's stunning to me how hard 
it is to get a straight answer on the internet for it. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Threadless Headset Questions

[Patrick Moore]

Oh, and from 3 x 1 cm spacers underneath to the equivalent of 1
("equivalent" because the present stem's clamp is longer than the others
that I installed by about 1 cm).

On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 8:22 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> ...
> I've gone from 8 cm and 10* or so rise through 4 iterations in length and
> angle to the present 10 cm and -17* on the Matthews, have have been
> wondering about 11 cm; so yes, threadless does have its drawbacks.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Threadless Headset Questions

[Patrick Moore]

Jim G's stem calculator is an easy - and cheap - way to estimate stem
length and reach. I used to make cardboard templates, but digital in this
case is better.

I've gone from 8 cm and 10* or so rise through 4 iterations in length and
angle to the present 10 cm and -17* on the Matthews, have have been
wondering about 11 cm; so yes, threadless does have its drawbacks.

On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 2:02 PM 'Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

>
> George, is that a threadless issue? I was looking at the slack headtube
> and wondering how it's all going to play out with the wavy bars (arriving
> next week), but that would be the case with a threaded headset as well. Is
> there that much more variety of stems for threadless?
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Threadless Headset Questions

[lconley]

The L stands for Limp. I will leave the rest to your imagination.

On Sunday, April 14, 2019 at 4:56:15 PM UTC-4, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> And what does "LD" stand for?
> On 4/14/19 4:47 PM, lconley wrote:
>
> I seem to end up with LD type stems on most of my bikes with threadless 
> headsets (took a while before I figured out what LD stood for). The 
> exception is the HHH where I have the threadless Bullmoose handlebars which 
> clamp directly to the steerer tube on top of a huge stack of spacers. The 
> LD stem is the best way to get the height that I am looking for and the 
> esthetics are better than the typical threadless stem - I grew up with 
> threaded, so I have never been fond of the clunky look of the threadless 
> stems. 
>
> The removable faceplate on most threadless stems sure does make it easier 
> to change handlebars, but I am still not a big fan of threadless. Bit of a 
> retro-grouch I guess.
>
> I already have a Crust LD stem patiently awaiting the GBW.
> -- 
>
> Steve Palincsar
> Alexandria, Virginia 
> USA
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Threadless Headset Questions

[Steve Palincsar]

And what does "LD" stand for?

On 4/14/19 4:47 PM, lconley wrote:
I seem to end up with LD type stems on most of my bikes with 
threadless headsets (took a while before I figured out what LD stood 
for). The exception is the HHH where I have the threadless Bullmoose 
handlebars which clamp directly to the steerer tube on top of a huge 
stack of spacers. The LD stem is the best way to get the height that I 
am looking for and the esthetics are better than the typical 
threadless stem - I grew up with threaded, so I have never been fond 
of the clunky look of the threadless stems.


The removable faceplate on most threadless stems sure does make it 
easier to change handlebars, but I am still not a big fan of 
threadless. Bit of a retro-grouch I guess.


I already have a Crust LD stem patiently awaiting the GBW.
--


Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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[RBW] Re: Threadless Headset Questions

[lconley]

I seem to end up with LD type stems on most of my bikes with threadless 
headsets (took a while before I figured out what LD stood for). The 
exception is the HHH where I have the threadless Bullmoose handlebars which 
clamp directly to the steerer tube on top of a huge stack of spacers. The 
LD stem is the best way to get the height that I am looking for and the 
esthetics are better than the typical threadless stem - I grew up with 
threaded, so I have never been fond of the clunky look of the threadless 
stems. 

The removable faceplate on most threadless stems sure does make it easier 
to change handlebars, but I am still not a big fan of threadless. Bit of a 
retro-grouch I guess.

I already have a Crust LD stem patiently awaiting the GBW.

Laing
Cocoa FL


>

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[RBW] Re: Threadless Headset Questions

[ted]

DP, re stem angles:
back in the day, virtually all quill stems had 73 (aka -17) deg. extensions. 
With threadless stems 90 deg. is common, as is 84, 73 is easy to find too, 
probably others as well.

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[RBW] Re: Threadless Headset Questions

[Joe Bernard]

Yes, there's a schmillion angles and lengths for threadless stems. Fortunately 
they usually come with open-face clamps so it's easy to buy a stack of cheap 
used ones and fiddle with fit until you find what you like. Then buy a fancy 
one!

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[RBW] Re: Threadless Headset Questions

['Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Thanks, Kai! The idea to be sure and set the bearings via the top bolt first, 
then tighten the stem bolt is key.

George, is that a threadless issue? I was looking at the slack headtube and 
wondering how it's all going to play out with the wavy bars (arriving next 
week), but that would be the case with a threaded headset as well. Is there 
that much more variety of stems for threadless?

With abandon,
Patrick

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[RBW] Re: Threadless Headset Questions

[George Schick]

I don't dislike threadless headsets.  In fact, I have several bikes with 
'em.  But one feature that have found to be a bit more annoying than with 
the old threaded "quill" stems is the fact that they come in a variety of 
different lengths and angles.  Used to be, when you went to set up your 
bike's bars with a quill stem you could figure out how far you wanted the 
"reach" to be, usually by placing your elbow against the nose of the saddle 
and then measuring the distance to the end of your fingers, and then buying 
the proper length stem so that the top of the bars would just fit to that 
measurement.  This distance could vary a bit, of course, depending on how 
much higher or lower you set the stem below the saddle.

With these threadless jobs you can start with the same measurement but then 
have to make tricky guesstimates to try to figure you what stem angle and 
length gets the bars to the place where you want them.  It just seems like 
a bit more trouble.


On Sunday, April 14, 2019 at 1:23:49 PM UTC-5, Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY 
wrote:
>
> The top Allen bolt only does it's job (setting your bearing load) when the 
> stem bolts are loose. If they're tight (the stem bolts on the side) the top 
> bolt can do nothing. Fact is, you don't really need that top bolt and cap. 
> It's not a bad thing to have, but I used to faintly tighten the stem bolts 
> and tap the stem to taste before tightening up all the way, I could then 
> gaze through my steer tube at my tread passing by as I rode along (not 
> recommended George, watch out for that tree btw)
> -Kai

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