[RBW] Re: Three Things

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I second the notion of a HubbahHubbah tandem for you guys. 

I got my 8 pack from Modernbike.com, as the shops that stock decent racks 
are few and far between in these parts. I've had no problems with them, and 
they offer free shipping. Unfortunately, they are currently out of stock on 
both the 8 and 24, in both silver and black. Might take a little hunting to 
find one.

On Monday, June 6, 2016 at 9:17:31 AM UTC-4, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> Leah, it sounds like you guys are ready for a tandem.  The only 
> significant difference I can see in his set up is the higher bars.  As you 
> raise the stem the angle of the head tube pushes  the handle bars back 
> toward the seat.  The other possibility is your body proportions.  Again, 
> can't tell from the photo, but just because he has longer legs, doesn't 
> mean he has a loner torso or a more forward comfort position..
>
> I'm putting together a Chevy-ut for my daughter and even though it is one 
> size smaller than Riv's suggestion there is virtually no seat post showing 
> and a good fit to the drop bars.
>
> Enjoy the ride.
> Michael
>
> O
>

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[RBW] Re: Three Things

[Michael Hechmer]

Leah, it sounds like you guys are ready for a tandem.  The only significant 
difference I can see in his set up is the higher bars.  As you raise the 
stem the angle of the head tube pushes  the handle bars back toward the 
seat.  The other possibility is your body proportions.  Again, can't tell 
from the photo, but just because he has longer legs, doesn't mean he has a 
loner torso or a more forward comfort position..

I'm putting together a Chevy-ut for my daughter and even though it is one 
size smaller than Riv's suggestion there is virtually no seat post showing 
and a good fit to the drop bars.

Enjoy the ride.
Michael

On Sunday, June 5, 2016 at 5:20:18 PM UTC-4, LeahFoy wrote:
>
> This post is a collection of questions and thoughts. I'm trying to 
> consolidate into just the one post, so sorry if it seems disjointed - I 
> thought maybe one post would be preferable to three.
>
> 1. First question: Why does my  6 ft husband's 52 cm Clem seem too small 
> and confined to me, who is 5'6"?
>
> You may remember my zany husband who got a Clem around Christmastime. It 
> was a memorable experience, let me tell you. He isn't Rivy at all, so this 
> was quite the leap for him, and he settled on "matching" his bike to mine 
> more than any other inspiration. We've been having a wonderful time with 
> our bikes, not many lengthy rides, but rather, we do this great thing he 
> calls "Our Evening Constitutional." Every night after dinner, we put on our 
> matching Keens, our matching RayBans, and we take our Rivendell bikes and 
> cruise around the neighborhood and through the park at our leisure. Our 
> kids are big enough to stay home, and we feel like we are really getting 
> away with something. We chat, we laugh, we congratulate ourselves on our 
> fantastic bikes and reflect on 12 years of marriage. This is the kind of 
> date I recommend. 
>
> But I digress.
>
> One night we decided to switch bikes. I'd made some minor adjustments to 
> his saddle and bars for him and wanted to test them. Secondly, I wanted to 
> gaze upon my lovely Betty Foy while he rode it. (You never get to 
> appreciate how great your own bike looks when you're on it!) I was really 
> expecting his bike to be large and unwieldy but I was shocked to discover 
> it felt cramped! I felt like the bars were squirrely, and that my butt 
> should be way farther back. I wanted to be more stretched out. Now, I have 
> albatross bars and he has whatever the Clems came with, but how can it make 
> that much difference? 
>
> I told him I didn't like his "sit up and beg" positioning. He retorted, 
> "It is not. It's the 'seated command' position." Then I rolled my eyes. 
>
> I tried grabbing his bars so I was more stretched out. No improvement. His 
> sprung Brooks is pushed all the way back on its rails. Is this how the Clem 
> is supposed to feel? Am I just too used to the Betty Foy? I really thought 
> lggg chainstays would make a huge difference, but there I was - 
> cramped. I knew if I came to you, you all would tell me why. 
>
> I felt so disappointed because I was hoping his bike would be as good/even 
> better than mine. The way I see it, my bike is perfect. I feel like the 
> bike is part of ME. I get on it and there's nothing I could do to make it 
> more comfortable. I don't even think about comfort. I fret a little about 
> the dings in the paint and wish I had the Big Back Rack to match my Big 
> Front Rack, and I wish that I had the gray medium Saddleback instead of the 
> tan - all stupid cosmetic stuff. But I couldn't be happy on his bike, and 
> that seems odd to me. Rivendells are comfortable and useful. It's their 
> trademark; what am I missing? My husband is not a bike person, so he's just 
> happy cruising around and looking alike. He thinks his bike feels fine, but 
> he calls mine "more plush." He'll happily roll along in his "seated 
> command" position regardless of what we say here, but I'm hoping you'll 
> have some rationale. 
>
> 2. It's his birthday next week. Do you remember his obsession with getting 
> a bamboo crate for the front of his Clem? Well, he ordered one from the 
> company Bamboobee on Amazon. They said it would be here anywhere in a 4 
> week timeframe. That timeframe came and went and after a lot of 
> back-and-forth, I was just refunded my money. I want to get him a rack and 
> different crate for his birthday. I have no idea what front rack the Clem 
> takes. Who can say, and does anyone have one for sale on the list? He has 
> the mousetrap rack on the back.
>
> Also, does anyone have a recommendation for a crate? He loved that the 
> Bamboobee looked modern and had a built in cup holder. He envisions himself 
> riding his Clem with this contraption and a handlebar speaker on the beach. 
> He lives in the desert.
>
> 3. His gears ghost shift. And there's lots of chatter in his gears. Is it 
> possible the REI mechanic didn't install the gearing correctly? Do they 
> need adjustment 

[RBW] Re: Three Things

[Garth]

As to number one, the spec seat tube angle on the Clem is 71.5 and the 
Betty Foy 72. To confirm this you can set each bike against a wall next to 
each other in parallel as best you can and they Clem seat tube should look 
just a little more relaxed.  This at least confirms the actuality of the 
specification.  

The head tube angle on the Betty is 70 and the Clem 71 so this too should 
be visible. 

Seat posts are different. The Betty has a Nitto of some sort ?  The Clem 
has a generic. The setback on them is likely different in some way but you 
should be able tell if they are "very" different by eye.  Any glaring 
difference ? 

You mentioned the sprung Brooks for the Clem, you Betty has what, a B17?   
Do they use the same rails and offer the same adjustments fore/aft ?

Cranks a same length ?
Pedals similar thickness ?

The seat fore/aft in relation to the BB is most important as this is really 
the foundation of bike control and feel.  You should be able to take your 
hands off the bars and be able to pedal it with feeling like you are 
falling forward.  

Once you get the saddle in a similar position as the Betty you have a base 
from which to compare reaches.  Measure the distance for the tip of the 
Betty saddle to the middle hand position of your Alba bars.  Now measure 
the Clem the same way. Any difference ?  

Measure the middle saddle to floor on each bike.  Now measure middle grip 
to floor on each.  What are the differences if any in the differentials ? 

I am not familiar with the Clem bar but am with Albas. It appears the Clem 
bars go back at least a couple of cm's compared to the Alba ? 


That's all I have for now ! 
Cheers 




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[RBW] Re: Three Things

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

My thought, based on the info provided and the photos, is that the 52cm is 
probably borderline for your husband. Which means, as set up, 
paradoxically, it could feel cramped to you because his handlebars are 
jacked to the max, which means they come back toward the saddle that much 
more, which they do more than just about any other bars anyway because they 
are Boscos.

I found I had to lower my Boscos (I have a stock 52cm Clementine, I am 
5'10" and shrinking). I also believe that the super upright position these 
bars encourage, even after lowering, tends to bring you toward the front of 
the saddle. With the lower rise and more forward bend, making the Albas, 
relatively speaking, more "aggressive", as the top half of your body leans 
forward, the rear tends to slide back. Without that ever so slightly more 
forward lean, your butt does not slide back when riding the Bosco position. 
These are kind of micro things, but coming from one to the other can be 
very noticeable. In any case, I gave myself one hundred days to grow 
accustomed to the Boscos before making any decision. 

One hundred days being the amount of time my old tai chi teacher said it 
took to develop a habit--at least a good habit. I have more to say about 
it, but to summarize, I am glad I gave it time, as I really like these 
bars, particularly for the state of mind they help foster while riding.  
However, I still occasionally experience that feeling you had, of being too 
far forward,  of wanting to be further back on the saddle. Which, as you 
say is weird on a Riv with a relaxed seat tube (I don't think chainstay 
length comes into play with this sensation) and as I said above I think 
comes about mostly because the zero lean position keeps your butt from 
sliding back. This may be why those Dutch city bikes have 69 degree seat 
tubes. My current saddle is a Brooks Flyer (B17 with springs). I just 
ordered a VO fat saddle with springs (Model 8?) so that I can get a bit 
more rail, and a bit more width to see if that alleviates the sensation.

Sadly, perhaps, I did not have the same patience when it came to the stock 
shifters. I tried everything I know to get those things to work properly, 
but they ghost shifted with regularity (a problem I documented in another 
thread here on RBW.) I have been using various shifting systems for almost 
50 years and never had a problem like this. I know there are others with a 
similar experience, and I suspect it is that a certain percentage of these 
things have some kind of defect. I swapped them out for a big honking set 
of Suntour stem shifters  I had in the parts bin. Despite the fact that the 
Bullmoose design blocks out half the movement, they still shift across all 
except the lowest gear, which I don't really need. I bought a second pair 
on eBay that install in a way that does not conflict with the BB bars, but 
they are not as big and Clemy, and the bike mechanic in me is constantly 
battling inertia, so the big honkers are still on there.

In terms of racks, I like the Surly six-pack, but it might be overkill for 
you. It also takes a bit of bending to get it right.


Unlike some others, and despite my lack of success with the stock shifters, 
I generally like the "factory" build just fine. I think the Bullmoose 
Boscos were conceived as almost a constructeur feature, a part that, for 
me, is integral to the bike (particularly the Clementine). I fully 
understand this does not mean that the bike won't work in other 
configurations, or that others might prefer those configurations. I even 
leave open the possibility that some day I might change the bars.

Anyway, my suggestion is switch bikes for 100 days.












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[RBW] Re: Three Things

[dougP]

Leah:

First of all, thanks for the photos.  They look great & I can see you two 
cruising the neighborhood.  

1.  With the bars being different, each bike will feel unique.  You're used 
to yours so naturally any other bike will feel strange.  As to "what's 
different", it would take some time with a tape measure to develop an 
answer.  As long as each of is comfortable on your own bike, life is good.

Side note on his "command performance" position.  I recently had someone 
liken their upright, swept bar position as "master of my realm."  

2.  That's a shame about the box.  It seemed a really cool idea when you 
first brought it up.  As to envisioning riding at the beach, hey, beach has 
sand; desert has sand.  A loop of breaking waves on his music player & all 
is well.  Hope someone here has a rack'n'crate combo they can recommend.  

3.  Others have good suggestions.  Check it all out.  If REI put it 
together, I'd have them give it a once over.  Some REI stores are better 
than others when it comes to bikes though.  

Keep us posted on future developments.  In any case, it sounds like you 
both are having a lot of fun with the bikes.

dougP

On Sunday, June 5, 2016 at 2:20:18 PM UTC-7, LeahFoy wrote:
>
> This post is a collection of questions and thoughts. I'm trying to 
> consolidate into just the one post, so sorry if it seems disjointed - I 
> thought maybe one post would be preferable to three.
>
> 1. First question: Why does my  6 ft husband's 52 cm Clem seem too small 
> and confined to me, who is 5'6"?
>
> You may remember my zany husband who got a Clem around Christmastime. It 
> was a memorable experience, let me tell you. He isn't Rivy at all, so this 
> was quite the leap for him, and he settled on "matching" his bike to mine 
> more than any other inspiration. We've been having a wonderful time with 
> our bikes, not many lengthy rides, but rather, we do this great thing he 
> calls "Our Evening Constitutional." Every night after dinner, we put on our 
> matching Keens, our matching RayBans, and we take our Rivendell bikes and 
> cruise around the neighborhood and through the park at our leisure. Our 
> kids are big enough to stay home, and we feel like we are really getting 
> away with something. We chat, we laugh, we congratulate ourselves on our 
> fantastic bikes and reflect on 12 years of marriage. This is the kind of 
> date I recommend. 
>
> But I digress.
>
> One night we decided to switch bikes. I'd made some minor adjustments to 
> his saddle and bars for him and wanted to test them. Secondly, I wanted to 
> gaze upon my lovely Betty Foy while he rode it. (You never get to 
> appreciate how great your own bike looks when you're on it!) I was really 
> expecting his bike to be large and unwieldy but I was shocked to discover 
> it felt cramped! I felt like the bars were squirrely, and that my butt 
> should be way farther back. I wanted to be more stretched out. Now, I have 
> albatross bars and he has whatever the Clems came with, but how can it make 
> that much difference? 
>
> I told him I didn't like his "sit up and beg" positioning. He retorted, 
> "It is not. It's the 'seated command' position." Then I rolled my eyes. 
>
> I tried grabbing his bars so I was more stretched out. No improvement. His 
> sprung Brooks is pushed all the way back on its rails. Is this how the Clem 
> is supposed to feel? Am I just too used to the Betty Foy? I really thought 
> lggg chainstays would make a huge difference, but there I was - 
> cramped. I knew if I came to you, you all would tell me why. 
>
> I felt so disappointed because I was hoping his bike would be as good/even 
> better than mine. The way I see it, my bike is perfect. I feel like the 
> bike is part of ME. I get on it and there's nothing I could do to make it 
> more comfortable. I don't even think about comfort. I fret a little about 
> the dings in the paint and wish I had the Big Back Rack to match my Big 
> Front Rack, and I wish that I had the gray medium Saddleback instead of the 
> tan - all stupid cosmetic stuff. But I couldn't be happy on his bike, and 
> that seems odd to me. Rivendells are comfortable and useful. It's their 
> trademark; what am I missing? My husband is not a bike person, so he's just 
> happy cruising around and looking alike. He thinks his bike feels fine, but 
> he calls mine "more plush." He'll happily roll along in his "seated 
> command" position regardless of what we say here, but I'm hoping you'll 
> have some rationale. 
>
> 2. It's his birthday next week. Do you remember his obsession with getting 
> a bamboo crate for the front of his Clem? Well, he ordered one from the 
> company Bamboobee on Amazon. They said it would be here anywhere in a 4 
> week timeframe. That timeframe came and went and after a lot of 
> back-and-forth, I was just refunded my money. I want to get him a rack and 
> different crate for his birthday. I have no idea what front rack the Clem 
> takes. Who 

[RBW] Re: Three Things

[Deacon Patrick]

1 and 2: blank stare. I got nuttin.

3. In addition to what others have suggested looking into (and I second the 
question of does he know how to shift friction gears? Simple test: does it 
ghost shift when you ride it? If not, teach him how to shift), there is a 
twist tensioner for most thumb levers on the lever itself, usually with a 
flip out "handle." If this comes loose (and it can with time) it can ghost 
shift.

If that fails, I had great luck curing my ghost shifting by reversing the 
pulleys on my derailure. The theory being that the top pulley has 
unnecessary play for friction shifting (but that indexed shifting requires 
to be "reliable") The bottom pully does not have this play, so reversing 
them cures the ghost shifting. 

With abandon,
Patrick

>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Three Things

[ian m]

I don't know that it's an issue with the derailer per se, just that in my 
experience the interaction between the Sunrace shifters and the Altus seems 
to be problematic. Both on my Clem (not the stock complete) and my 
partner's All City (though she has the indexed 8 speed Sunrace rear shifter 
rather than the Riv offered model). After many many adjustments they never 
play well together

On Sunday, June 5, 2016 at 6:28:36 PM UTC-4, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>
>
> On 06/05/2016 06:23 PM, ian m wrote: 
> > 1. When you are so used to an comfortable with the feel of your bike, 
> > anyone else's feels off. If you rode his for a week, making minor 
> > adjustments to the fit, there's no doubt you would find the perfect 
> > set up. 
> > Also, those Bosco bars push you REALLY far back. I didn't like the 
> > feel of them when I test rode a Clem and I'm happy I went with the 
> > bullmoose bars. 
> > 
> > 2. The Clem would be happy with the Nitto Mark's rack, or any of the 
> > bigger ones. 
> > 
> > 3. I am of the firm opinion that the combination of those Sunrace 
> > shifters and the Altus derailer are a problem. I used the same 
> > shifters with an old Shimano XTR derailer and had perfect crisp shifts 
> > for a year. Once that derailer wore out I went with the Altus on Riv's 
> > recommendation and have had nothing but problems. I would suggest 
> > upgrading the derailer to something like the Deore or XT derailer Riv 
> > offers. 
>
>
> What could the issue be with the Altus derailleur? 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Three Things

[Steve Palincsar]

On 06/05/2016 06:23 PM, ian m wrote:
1. When you are so used to an comfortable with the feel of your bike, 
anyone else's feels off. If you rode his for a week, making minor 
adjustments to the fit, there's no doubt you would find the perfect 
set up.
Also, those Bosco bars push you REALLY far back. I didn't like the 
feel of them when I test rode a Clem and I'm happy I went with the 
bullmoose bars.


2. The Clem would be happy with the Nitto Mark's rack, or any of the 
bigger ones.


3. I am of the firm opinion that the combination of those Sunrace 
shifters and the Altus derailer are a problem. I used the same 
shifters with an old Shimano XTR derailer and had perfect crisp shifts 
for a year. Once that derailer wore out I went with the Altus on Riv's 
recommendation and have had nothing but problems. I would suggest 
upgrading the derailer to something like the Deore or XT derailer Riv 
offers.



What could the issue be with the Altus derailleur?

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[RBW] Re: Three Things

[ian m]

1. When you are so used to an comfortable with the feel of your bike, 
anyone else's feels off. If you rode his for a week, making minor 
adjustments to the fit, there's no doubt you would find the perfect set up.
Also, those Bosco bars push you REALLY far back. I didn't like the feel of 
them when I test rode a Clem and I'm happy I went with the bullmoose bars.

2. The Clem would be happy with the Nitto Mark's rack, or any of the bigger 
ones.

3. I am of the firm opinion that the combination of those Sunrace shifters 
and the Altus derailer are a problem. I used the same shifters with an old 
Shimano XTR derailer and had perfect crisp shifts for a year. Once that 
derailer wore out I went with the Altus on Riv's recommendation and have 
had nothing but problems. I would suggest upgrading the derailer to 
something like the Deore or XT derailer Riv offers.


On Sunday, June 5, 2016 at 5:20:18 PM UTC-4, LeahFoy wrote:
>
> This post is a collection of questions and thoughts. I'm trying to 
> consolidate into just the one post, so sorry if it seems disjointed - I 
> thought maybe one post would be preferable to three.
>
> 1. First question: Why does my  6 ft husband's 52 cm Clem seem too small 
> and confined to me, who is 5'6"?
>
> You may remember my zany husband who got a Clem around Christmastime. It 
> was a memorable experience, let me tell you. He isn't Rivy at all, so this 
> was quite the leap for him, and he settled on "matching" his bike to mine 
> more than any other inspiration. We've been having a wonderful time with 
> our bikes, not many lengthy rides, but rather, we do this great thing he 
> calls "Our Evening Constitutional." Every night after dinner, we put on our 
> matching Keens, our matching RayBans, and we take our Rivendell bikes and 
> cruise around the neighborhood and through the park at our leisure. Our 
> kids are big enough to stay home, and we feel like we are really getting 
> away with something. We chat, we laugh, we congratulate ourselves on our 
> fantastic bikes and reflect on 12 years of marriage. This is the kind of 
> date I recommend. 
>
> But I digress.
>
> One night we decided to switch bikes. I'd made some minor adjustments to 
> his saddle and bars for him and wanted to test them. Secondly, I wanted to 
> gaze upon my lovely Betty Foy while he rode it. (You never get to 
> appreciate how great your own bike looks when you're on it!) I was really 
> expecting his bike to be large and unwieldy but I was shocked to discover 
> it felt cramped! I felt like the bars were squirrely, and that my butt 
> should be way farther back. I wanted to be more stretched out. Now, I have 
> albatross bars and he has whatever the Clems came with, but how can it make 
> that much difference? 
>
> I told him I didn't like his "sit up and beg" positioning. He retorted, 
> "It is not. It's the 'seated command' position." Then I rolled my eyes. 
>
> I tried grabbing his bars so I was more stretched out. No improvement. His 
> sprung Brooks is pushed all the way back on its rails. Is this how the Clem 
> is supposed to feel? Am I just too used to the Betty Foy? I really thought 
> lggg chainstays would make a huge difference, but there I was - 
> cramped. I knew if I came to you, you all would tell me why. 
>
> I felt so disappointed because I was hoping his bike would be as good/even 
> better than mine. The way I see it, my bike is perfect. I feel like the 
> bike is part of ME. I get on it and there's nothing I could do to make it 
> more comfortable. I don't even think about comfort. I fret a little about 
> the dings in the paint and wish I had the Big Back Rack to match my Big 
> Front Rack, and I wish that I had the gray medium Saddleback instead of the 
> tan - all stupid cosmetic stuff. But I couldn't be happy on his bike, and 
> that seems odd to me. Rivendells are comfortable and useful. It's their 
> trademark; what am I missing? My husband is not a bike person, so he's just 
> happy cruising around and looking alike. He thinks his bike feels fine, but 
> he calls mine "more plush." He'll happily roll along in his "seated 
> command" position regardless of what we say here, but I'm hoping you'll 
> have some rationale. 
>
> 2. It's his birthday next week. Do you remember his obsession with getting 
> a bamboo crate for the front of his Clem? Well, he ordered one from the 
> company Bamboobee on Amazon. They said it would be here anywhere in a 4 
> week timeframe. That timeframe came and went and after a lot of 
> back-and-forth, I was just refunded my money. I want to get him a rack and 
> different crate for his birthday. I have no idea what front rack the Clem 
> takes. Who can say, and does anyone have one for sale on the list? He has 
> the mousetrap rack on the back.
>
> Also, does anyone have a recommendation for a crate? He loved that the 
> Bamboobee looked modern and had a built in cup holder. He envisions himself 
> riding his Clem with this contraption and 

[RBW] Re: Three Things

[Jeremy Tavan]

Re: (1) - The Evening Constitutional is a fantastic idea and one that I'm 
going to steal/adopt as soon as we can leave our son in the house alone. As 
far as comfort is concerned, I wouldn't sweat it - he's the one who has to 
be comfortable on his bike. If I had to venture a guess I'd point at the 
handlebars, but it really doesn't seem like a big deal.

Re: (2) - My wife's Clementine has a box from http://www.gothamcargo.com/ 
on it. It mounted easily, and it has a lot of color and character, but I'm 
not very impressed with the quality of construction. Operationally fine so 
far, but I just keep waiting for it to break. Maybe it won't, and it just 
feels light because it's light. But if I were doing it today and didn't 
care about shiny colors, I'd probably shop for a vintage soda bottle crate 
on Ebay. They're inexpensive, very sturdy, and have loads of character. 
Shellac it, mount it on a porteur type rack, and collect admiring glances.

Re: (3) - I am not a fan of the Riv stock Clem/Clementine build. At all. 
Bought my wife a beautiful Clementine and we have since replaced perhaps 
half of the total parts because of issues with cockpit (lack of) comfort 
and ghost shifting. The stock bars were not angle-adjustable and were too 
wide for her shoulders, and the stock shifters, cassette, and chain did not 
play nicely together even after adjusting and re-adjusting shift cable 
tension. We've replaced the chain and cassette and shifters with Shimano 
parts (lowest-price 11-32 cassette and chain, 8-speed Ultegra shifters in 
VO thumb adapters), and it's working a lot better now. 

Cheers, and happy riding on your nearly-matching bikes! 

/Jeremy


On Sunday, June 5, 2016 at 2:20:18 PM UTC-7, LeahFoy wrote:
>
> This post is a collection of questions and thoughts. I'm trying to 
> consolidate into just the one post, so sorry if it seems disjointed - I 
> thought maybe one post would be preferable to three.
>
> 1. First question: Why does my  6 ft husband's 52 cm Clem seem too small 
> and confined to me, who is 5'6"?
>
> You may remember my zany husband who got a Clem around Christmastime. It 
> was a memorable experience, let me tell you. He isn't Rivy at all, so this 
> was quite the leap for him, and he settled on "matching" his bike to mine 
> more than any other inspiration. We've been having a wonderful time with 
> our bikes, not many lengthy rides, but rather, we do this great thing he 
> calls "Our Evening Constitutional." Every night after dinner, we put on our 
> matching Keens, our matching RayBans, and we take our Rivendell bikes and 
> cruise around the neighborhood and through the park at our leisure. Our 
> kids are big enough to stay home, and we feel like we are really getting 
> away with something. We chat, we laugh, we congratulate ourselves on our 
> fantastic bikes and reflect on 12 years of marriage. This is the kind of 
> date I recommend. 
>
> But I digress.
>
> One night we decided to switch bikes. I'd made some minor adjustments to 
> his saddle and bars for him and wanted to test them. Secondly, I wanted to 
> gaze upon my lovely Betty Foy while he rode it. (You never get to 
> appreciate how great your own bike looks when you're on it!) I was really 
> expecting his bike to be large and unwieldy but I was shocked to discover 
> it felt cramped! I felt like the bars were squirrely, and that my butt 
> should be way farther back. I wanted to be more stretched out. Now, I have 
> albatross bars and he has whatever the Clems came with, but how can it make 
> that much difference? 
>
> I told him I didn't like his "sit up and beg" positioning. He retorted, 
> "It is not. It's the 'seated command' position." Then I rolled my eyes. 
>
> I tried grabbing his bars so I was more stretched out. No improvement. His 
> sprung Brooks is pushed all the way back on its rails. Is this how the Clem 
> is supposed to feel? Am I just too used to the Betty Foy? I really thought 
> lggg chainstays would make a huge difference, but there I was - 
> cramped. I knew if I came to you, you all would tell me why. 
>
> I felt so disappointed because I was hoping his bike would be as good/even 
> better than mine. The way I see it, my bike is perfect. I feel like the 
> bike is part of ME. I get on it and there's nothing I could do to make it 
> more comfortable. I don't even think about comfort. I fret a little about 
> the dings in the paint and wish I had the Big Back Rack to match my Big 
> Front Rack, and I wish that I had the gray medium Saddleback instead of the 
> tan - all stupid cosmetic stuff. But I couldn't be happy on his bike, and 
> that seems odd to me. Rivendells are comfortable and useful. It's their 
> trademark; what am I missing? My husband is not a bike person, so he's just 
> happy cruising around and looking alike. He thinks his bike feels fine, but 
> he calls mine "more plush." He'll happily roll along in his "seated 
> command" position regardless of what we say here,