Re: [RBW] Re: Truing wheels question.

[Patrick Moore]

It's not hard; I learned to do it successfully without really paying much
attention or trying very hard. I did manage to "blank up" a wheel or two,
creating a very small (I repeat: very small; it made no practical
difference in the feel of the wheel while riding) hop where none had
existed before, but even those failures were minor; *and*, even in those
cases, I got the wheels laterally true.

No need to buy equipment; just use your left thumbnail, hand clenched about
stay or caliper (as I did, successfully I might add for many more wheels
than I failed at), or sure, the brake pad/caliper; comes to the same in the
end. The virtue of the thumbnail is that you add touch to the senses
(sight, certainly; what else? Hearing? Smell? Taste?) informing you of the
"true" versus "out of true" situation. Note that touch is a very useful
sense to have.

FWIW, I taught myself, with positively no prior study -- no teaching, no
watching, no reading, no video. So I think that a couple of wheels with
very minor hop divided by the whole lotta wheels sans problemo is a decent
record.

IME, the hardest thing is learning how to distinguish the tightening
direction from the loosening direction when the spoke nipple is upside down.

On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 9:33 PM Lum Gim Fong  wrote:

> Thanks for the info!
> Sounds tricky the more I research it.
> Some online vids make it look easy, but then some introduce deeper stuff
> like radial truing after lateral truing, then back and forth til wheel
> aligned both ways.
> Then measuring that the rim is centered over the hub properly. And these
> are just truing vids. I can’t imagine building a wheel.
>
> I think if all it really takes is adjusting a spoke or three for lateral
> blips I could do it, as long as I would not be throwing off the radial
> truing and hub centering.
>
> Any more than that sounds like learning to play a musical instrument or
> something very involved like that. I will have to research more before I
> felt confident enough to do it.
>
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[RBW] Re: Truing wheels question.

[Joe Bernard]

Like I said, I just do the 3-or-4 spokes to iron out a wobbly spot. If the hole 
wheel needs work, I pay people who do that stuff. 

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[RBW] Re: Truing wheels question.

[Lum Gim Fong]

Thanks for the info!
Sounds tricky the more I research it.
Some online vids make it look easy, but then some introduce deeper stuff like 
radial truing after lateral truing, then back and forth til wheel aligned both 
ways.
Then measuring that the rim is centered over the hub properly. And these are 
just truing vids. I can’t imagine building a wheel.

I think if all it really takes is adjusting a spoke or three for lateral blips 
I could do it, as long as I would not be throwing off the radial truing and hub 
centering.

Any more than that sounds like learning to play a musical instrument or 
something very involved like that. I will have to research more before I felt 
confident enough to do it.

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[RBW] Re: Truing wheels question.

[Philip Williamson]

It's pretty easy, as everyone says. But sure, you could mess it up. Then 
you could fix it, and you'd have a more visceral understanding of the 
process. 
I'd start with on-the-bike truing, since you might find you hate the whole 
process. I'd wait on buying a truing stand and tensiometer until you've 
built a wheel and want build a second one, only faster. That's what I did, 
and my "built on the bike" wheels are no worse than the ones built with the 
proper tools.

1. Spoke nipples work like jar caps. Envisioning that the spoke is a jar 
and the nipple is the cap is pretty much the only way I can keep it 
straight which way to turn the wrench. 
2. A tight-fitting wrench is pretty key, especially on an old wheel that 
might have corroded spokes. I like the Spokey wrench, but the Park ones are 
fine. 
3. Keep the nipple faces square with the rim, and only turn 1/4 turn at a 
time. That lets you put the wrench on by feel, and keeps you from getting 
obsessed with micro-turns. 
4. Over-turn a little on each adjustment, and then bring the nipple back 
square with the rim. That minimizes the 'pinging' and re-truing after 
stress relieving or riding. 

Good luck! 

Philip 
Santa Rosa, CA

On Saturday, October 6, 2018 at 8:28:00 AM UTC-7, Lum Gim Fong wrote:
>
> Was wondering if this is easy to do for a first timer, or could I mess up 
> the spoke tension and cause big probs.
>
> Of course, safety is my first concern. I don't want to mess up the wheel 
> and cause a safety issue.
>
> But it is a skill I would like to have so I don't have to run to the LBS 
> over something that may be simple to do myself.
>
> Books make it seem simple.
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Truing wheels question.

[Jon BALER]

2nd getting a truing stand.  Also, having the Park Tool specific size spoke 
wrench works much better for me than using the 3-sided one.

On Monday, October 8, 2018 at 2:07:31 PM UTC-4, lconley wrote:
>
> I trued wheels on the bike for 30 years. 
> If I wasn't on the road or if I was building from scratch, I took the tire 
> off and rubber banded a 10mm combination wrench to the brake pads for the 
> up and down.
> A few years ago, I bought a Park truing stand, dish tool and tension meter 
> and did some more reading on the subject. I am never going back to on the 
> bike unless out on the road. I think the biggest improvement was using 
> better never-seize on the spokes - less spoke twist and more tension on the 
> spokes before the spoke nipples gave up. I am not a Rich or a Peter White, 
> but I can build a fairly true wheel.
>
> Laing
> Cocoa, FL
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Truing wheels question.

[lconley]

I trued wheels on the bike for 30 years. 
If I wasn't on the road or if I was building from scratch, I took the tire 
off and rubber banded a 10mm combination wrench to the brake pads for the 
up and down.
A few years ago, I bought a Park truing stand, dish tool and tension meter 
and did some more reading on the subject. I am never going back to on the 
bike unless out on the road. I think the biggest improvement was using 
better never-seize on the spokes - less spoke twist and more tension on the 
spokes before the spoke nipples gave up. I am not a Rich or a Peter White, 
but I can build a fairly true wheel.

Laing
Cocoa, FL

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Re: [RBW] Re: Truing wheels question.

['Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch]

For the home mechanic doing a minor truing, the age-old technique of “plucking” 
the spokes works pretty well. As the tension of a spoke increases, its sound 
when plucked goes up in frequency. Plunk the spokes to find the ones that are 
loose (lower tones) and avoid putting too much tension by getting the tone of 
the adjusted spokes to more or less match the tones of the spokes around it.

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
@CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)

> On Oct 8, 2018, at 9:28 AM, nemomom...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Definitely should test on another wheel. I'm not sure I agree with the idea 
> that you don't need a tensometer to verify your moves so you don't over 
> tighten, but I do know small moves are better and having a truing stand is 
> really helpful. I would recommend a drop of oil on each of the nipples on the 
> wheel you're testing on because likely it's an old wheel you pulled out of 
> the garage or the alley and you may strip the threads on the spokes. It's 
> just a good habit to get into whenever even if you're not building a new 
> wheel. Doesn't hurt!
> 
> On Saturday, October 6, 2018 at 8:28:00 AM UTC-7, Lum Gim Fong wrote:
> Was wondering if this is easy to do for a first timer, or could I mess up the 
> spoke tension and cause big probs.
> 
> Of course, safety is my first concern. I don't want to mess up the wheel and 
> cause a safety issue.
> 
> But it is a skill I would like to have so I don't have to run to the LBS over 
> something that may be simple to do myself.
> 
> Books make it seem simple.
> 
> 
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[RBW] Re: Truing wheels question.

[nemomom123]

Definitely should test on another wheel. I'm not sure I agree with the idea 
that you don't need a tensometer to verify your moves so you don't over 
tighten, but I do know small moves are better and having a truing stand is 
really helpful. I would recommend a drop of oil on each of the nipples on 
the wheel you're testing on because likely it's an old wheel you pulled out 
of the garage or the alley and you may strip the threads on the spokes. 
It's just a good habit to get into whenever even if you're not building a 
new wheel. Doesn't hurt!

On Saturday, October 6, 2018 at 8:28:00 AM UTC-7, Lum Gim Fong wrote:
>
> Was wondering if this is easy to do for a first timer, or could I mess up 
> the spoke tension and cause big probs.
>
> Of course, safety is my first concern. I don't want to mess up the wheel 
> and cause a safety issue.
>
> But it is a skill I would like to have so I don't have to run to the LBS 
> over something that may be simple to do myself.
>
> Books make it seem simple.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Truing wheels question.

[George Schick]

Oops.  You're right.  I over-read the OP's request.  None of my comments 
would apply to just truing instead of wheel building.  I should've read 
closer.

On Saturday, October 6, 2018 at 4:41:10 PM UTC-5, Ben Miller wrote:
>
> Since the original question was about truing, and not building a wheel, I 
> feel it should be pointed out you don't need a tensionometer or to 
> lubricate the nipples. Those are nessecary to build a wheel, but not to 
> true it. 

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[RBW] Re: Truing wheels question.

[Ben Miller]

Since the original question was about truing, and not building a wheel, I feel 
it should be pointed out you don't need a tensionometer or to lubricate the 
nipples. Those are nessecary to build a wheel, but not to true it. 

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[RBW] Re: Truing wheels question.

[George Schick]

All good suggestions here about taking on the task of wheel building.  You 
can do it; just takes time and practice to get the fine points nailed down.
One thing I haven't seen mentioned, though, is to apply a small amount of 
lubricant where the nipple meets the rim hole and also a bit on the spoke 
threads as well.  More or less even tension all around the wheel is what 
keeps it straight and true.  And when you get to the place where the final 
tightening turns of the spoke wrench are applied, the lubricant will help 
keep the spokes from twisting so much.  I wish someone made a pair of 
pliers or similar tool with a groove in the jaws that would allow the spoke 
to be gripped without marring it to help keep the twisting at a minimum. 
 But the twists can eventually be removed by squeezing the pairs together 
by hand or with a lever.  Final relief will be accomplished when you ride 
on it and hear the spokes "pinging" as they un-twist themselves a bit. 
 After that, a re-examination in the truing stand would be nice to see if 
anything changed too much.

On Saturday, October 6, 2018 at 3:19:36 PM UTC-5, Bob Ehrenbeck wrote:
>
> Oops -- I read Lum's post too quickly and thought he was asking about 
> building wheels from scratch! But my first paragraph still stands!  : )
>

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[RBW] Re: Truing wheels question.

[Bob Ehrenbeck]

Oops -- I read Lum's post too quickly and thought he was asking about 
building wheels from scratch! But my first paragraph still stands!  : )

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[RBW] Re: Truing wheels question.

[Bob Ehrenbeck]

Like the others have said, it's not difficult; once you understand the 
basics of how each turn of the spoke nipple affects radial, lateral, and 
center trueness, as well as how it affects the tension of nearby spokes, it 
just takes patience. Jobst Brandt's book, The Bicycle Wheel, gave me a good 
understanding of the mechanics involved. 

In addition to buying a truing stand, I also have a Park tensiometer -- 
they're both very helpful to a novice wheelbuilder like myself (and 
important to get the tension right). I've built up about a dozen wheels so 
far, and they've all held up very well -- although I taco'ed my very first 
wheel when I got overzealous with stress-relieving when truing! Anyway, I 
encourage you to give it a go --it's very satisfying to ride on wheels you 
built on your own!

Bob E
Cranford, NJ

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[RBW] Re: Truing wheels question.

[Mark Schneider]

Do you have an old spare.to practice on? If you're careful you won't hurt 
it, but I'd consider practicing on a non critical spare first. It's a great 
skill once mastered.
Good luck.

Mark

On Saturday, October 6, 2018 at 8:28:00 AM UTC-7, Lum Gim Fong wrote:
>
> Was wondering if this is easy to do for a first timer, or could I mess up 
> the spoke tension and cause big probs.
>
> Of course, safety is my first concern. I don't want to mess up the wheel 
> and cause a safety issue.
>
> But it is a skill I would like to have so I don't have to run to the LBS 
> over something that may be simple to do myself.
>
> Books make it seem simple.
>
>

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