Re: [RBW] Cycling is inherently conservative.
Carbon fiber reinforced plastics are only the latest expression of innovation that has caused much harm from injuries when steerer tubes, fork blades and frames have snapped under normal and/or readily foreseeable less-than-normal situations. I cannot see myself ever wanting anything other than an all steel bike, and I have never once worn (and doubtful never will) form fitting cycle shorts or cycle only shoes. Must say though that I am actually intrigued with what Argonaut is doing with CF sheet tubings. For some reason I thought CF could only be made in an injection molding type process. Argonaut's process video really opened my eyes to the possibility of making micro adjustments to tube diameter allowing a level of custom design impossible with steel. May take a generation before there is enough data to match the technology to users, but it seems a worthwhile pursuit to me. CNC milled parts such as stems and cranks which had an unacceptably high failure rate would be yet another; some of those are still with us today because the people manufacturing those products too often fail to understand metallurgy and metal fabrication adequately. You do not name brands, but my take away from the remark is based on my and a lot of other people's experience, the folks at Paul and White must understand metallurgy and metal fabrication as their cranks and now with Paul seat posts are very durable with low fail rates. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Cycling is inherently conservative.
Unfortunately the words that get co-opted (or perhaps corrupted would be more apropos) by politicians come to mean everything and nothing, depending on the expediency of the moment. Riding a bike is liberal in the terms that Deacon Patrick used- it is liberating and indeed played a major role in expanding the rights of women in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Riding a bike is conservative compared to driving a motor vehicle, taking far less resources to manufacture and to operate. Patrick Moore's comment of cycling's conservativeness in rejecting unneeded and ultimately harmful innovation is sadly not one I can agree with. The history of the development of the bicycle is littered with such innovations. Carbon fiber reinforced plastics are only the latest expression of innovation that has caused much harm from injuries when steerer tubes, fork blades and frames have snapped under normal and/or readily foreseeable less-than-normal situations. Drillium is another harmful innovation that comes into and falls out of fashion periodically. CNC milled parts such as stems and cranks which had an unacceptably high failure rate would be yet another; some of those are still with us today because the people manufacturing those products too often fail to understand metallurgy and metal fabrication adequately. Rivendell and people like Jobst Brandt might be considered conservative by Patrick's description, but mainstream cycling is not- instead they chase new marketable pseudo-advancements in order to keep selling new bikes to a small subset of the population. Locally (Twin Cities) I see a lot of people riding nice quality steel bikes from the 70s and 80s, dressed like unracers and looking like they are going to/from work and running errands. I am cheered up by this every time. Most of these are younger folks in their 20s or maybe early 30s, although I also see an increase in teenaged and pre-teenaged cyclers as well. This cheers me up even more. I see groups of nice young people meeting up to go out for the evening by bike. I see bikes locked up all over the downtown areas and other business areas in town. While us older folks are grumbling and and forming committees and pushing for bike lanes and trails as if this was a prerequisite for people to feel safe to ride, younger folks seem to be just skipping all that and getting on their bikes to get where they are going. Instead of waiting for us to fix the world to make it cycleable, they've gotten ahead of us by just doing it. Something else I have noticed… I get a lot less hassle from drivers than I got just five years ago. They are used to seeing bikes on the roads, it seems. Tim On Jul 27, 2013, at 1:39 PM, Patrick Moore bertin...@gmail.com wrote: And inherently conservative -- rejecting unneeded and ultimately harmful innovation. On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Deacon Patrick lamontg...@mac.com wrote: I'd say cycling is inherently liberal. Not the backwards modern meaning politicians use today. The correct, original meaning of liberal, as in liberating, seeking freedom for every person. With abandon, Patrick On Saturday, July 27, 2013 12:12:51 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote: http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/ And not only conservative, but snarling, Cobbett-like, High Church Anglican, old-crusted-port, dyed-in-wool Tory (but bitterly anti-Cameron!) village-sage-type conservative. Damn'd Whigs! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Cycling is inherently conservative.
I should have added that I posted that link simply because it is interesting to me to see what spectrum of opinion cycling embraces in fact, although most dedicated cyclists seem to be liberal, and not because I wanted to push any ideological agenda; I despise ideologies, right or left (if these words even have any meaning, as Tim notes). Positions, social or otherwise, can be articulated and defended -- or not -- on their own merits. For the record, I find much to agree with in Hitchen's screeds, but hardly define myself by his rants. On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Tim McNamara tim...@bitstream.net wrote: Unfortunately the words that get co-opted (or perhaps corrupted would be more apropos) by politicians come to mean everything and nothing, depending on the expediency of the moment. Riding a bike is liberal in the terms that Deacon Patrick used- it is liberating and indeed played a major role in expanding the rights of women in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Riding a bike is conservative compared to driving a motor vehicle, taking far less resources to manufacture and to operate. Patrick Moore's comment of cycling's conservativeness in rejecting unneeded and ultimately harmful innovation is sadly not one I can agree with. The history of the development of the bicycle is littered with such innovations. Carbon fiber reinforced plastics are only the latest expression of innovation that has caused much harm from injuries when steerer tubes, fork blades and frames have snapped under normal and/or readily foreseeable less-than-normal situations. Drillium is another harmful innovation that comes into and falls out of fashion periodically. CNC milled parts such as stems and cranks which had an unacceptably high failure rate would be yet another; some of those are still with us today because the people manufacturing those products too often fail to understand metallurgy and metal fabrication adequately. Rivendell and people like Jobst Brandt might be considered conservative by Patrick's description, but mainstream cycling is not- instead they chase new marketable pseudo-advancements in order to keep selling new bikes to a small subset of the population. Locally (Twin Cities) I see a lot of people riding nice quality steel bikes from the 70s and 80s, dressed like unracers and looking like they are going to/from work and running errands. I am cheered up by this every time. Most of these are younger folks in their 20s or maybe early 30s, although I also see an increase in teenaged and pre-teenaged cyclers as well. This cheers me up even more. I see groups of nice young people meeting up to go out for the evening by bike. I see bikes locked up all over the downtown areas and other business areas in town. While us older folks are grumbling and and forming committees and pushing for bike lanes and trails as if this was a prerequisite for people to feel safe to ride, younger folks seem to be just skipping all that and getting on their bikes to get where they are going. Instead of waiting for us to fix the world to make it cycleable, they've gotten ahead of us by just doing it. Something else I have noticed… I get a lot less hassle from drivers than I got just five years ago. They are used to seeing bikes on the roads, it seems. Tim On Jul 27, 2013, at 1:39 PM, Patrick Moore bertin...@gmail.com wrote: And inherently conservative -- rejecting unneeded and ultimately harmful innovation. On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Deacon Patrick lamontg...@mac.com wrote: I'd say cycling is inherently liberal. Not the backwards modern meaning politicians use today. The correct, original meaning of liberal, as in liberating, seeking freedom for every person. With abandon, Patrick On Saturday, July 27, 2013 12:12:51 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote: http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/ And not only conservative, but snarling, Cobbett-like, High Church Anglican, old-crusted-port, dyed-in-wool Tory (but bitterly anti-Cameron!) village-sage-type conservative. Damn'd Whigs! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- http://resumespecialties.com/index.html patrickmo...@resumespecialties.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Albuquerque, NM -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email
Re: [RBW] Cycling is inherently conservative.
Love the link - thanks, Patrick. As one who just visited London, it is interesting to hear that they feel that the car culture is hitting them squarely. I used the tube, bus, and feet to get around, but I noticed a LOT more medium to large cars than I remember from my last trip 12 yrs ago. That said, I was more used to cars back before I had gotten out of the habit of driving. As for the idea that drivers are surprised that other forms of transport can get you there faster, I see that every day in Seattle on my commute. I regularly ride past long lines of cars stuck in traffic full of frustrated drivers. My bike commute, when averaged out over the changing traffic patterns, is the same as driving a car. I am also refreshed at work. So worth it. Sad state of affairs - everyone has been sold into thinking they need cars for their day-to-day errands. Brian Seattle, WA Brian Hanson Seattle, WA On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 12:56 PM, Patrick Moore bertin...@gmail.com wrote: I should have added that I posted that link simply because it is interesting to me to see what spectrum of opinion cycling embraces in fact, although most dedicated cyclists seem to be liberal, and not because I wanted to push any ideological agenda; I despise ideologies, right or left (if these words even have any meaning, as Tim notes). Positions, social or otherwise, can be articulated and defended -- or not -- on their own merits. For the record, I find much to agree with in Hitchen's screeds, but hardly define myself by his rants. On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Tim McNamara tim...@bitstream.netwrote: Unfortunately the words that get co-opted (or perhaps corrupted would be more apropos) by politicians come to mean everything and nothing, depending on the expediency of the moment. Riding a bike is liberal in the terms that Deacon Patrick used- it is liberating and indeed played a major role in expanding the rights of women in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Riding a bike is conservative compared to driving a motor vehicle, taking far less resources to manufacture and to operate. Patrick Moore's comment of cycling's conservativeness in rejecting unneeded and ultimately harmful innovation is sadly not one I can agree with. The history of the development of the bicycle is littered with such innovations. Carbon fiber reinforced plastics are only the latest expression of innovation that has caused much harm from injuries when steerer tubes, fork blades and frames have snapped under normal and/or readily foreseeable less-than-normal situations. Drillium is another harmful innovation that comes into and falls out of fashion periodically. CNC milled parts such as stems and cranks which had an unacceptably high failure rate would be yet another; some of those are still with us today because the people manufacturing those products too often fail to understand metallurgy and metal fabrication adequately. Rivendell and people like Jobst Brandt might be considered conservative by Patrick's description, but mainstream cycling is not- instead they chase new marketable pseudo-advancements in order to keep selling new bikes to a small subset of the population. Locally (Twin Cities) I see a lot of people riding nice quality steel bikes from the 70s and 80s, dressed like unracers and looking like they are going to/from work and running errands. I am cheered up by this every time. Most of these are younger folks in their 20s or maybe early 30s, although I also see an increase in teenaged and pre-teenaged cyclers as well. This cheers me up even more. I see groups of nice young people meeting up to go out for the evening by bike. I see bikes locked up all over the downtown areas and other business areas in town. While us older folks are grumbling and and forming committees and pushing for bike lanes and trails as if this was a prerequisite for people to feel safe to ride, younger folks seem to be just skipping all that and getting on their bikes to get where they are going. Instead of waiting for us to fix the world to make it cycleable, they've gotten ahead of us by just doing it. Something else I have noticed… I get a lot less hassle from drivers than I got just five years ago. They are used to seeing bikes on the roads, it seems. Tim On Jul 27, 2013, at 1:39 PM, Patrick Moore bertin...@gmail.com wrote: And inherently conservative -- rejecting unneeded and ultimately harmful innovation. On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Deacon Patrick lamontg...@mac.com wrote: I'd say cycling is inherently liberal. Not the backwards modern meaning politicians use today. The correct, original meaning of liberal, as in liberating, seeking freedom for every person. With abandon, Patrick On Saturday, July 27, 2013 12:12:51 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote: http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/ And not only conservative, but snarling, Cobbett-like, High
