Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
That's perfect! On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 8:50 AM, WETH erlhous...@gmail.com wrote: From the current issue of the *New Yorker:* On Wednesday, March 11, 2015 at 9:11:23 AM UTC-4, Matthew J wrote: Not to beat a dead horse or anything, but this picture posted yesterday on a Crazyguyonabike journal I've been following is so typical of the way European (and many Asian) cycle tourists dress just had to link. The two in the picture are currently in Thailand have ridden overland from France. Despite their loose and decidedly non-road attire they say they've been averaging 20 km per hour! Europe obviously has a very strong road cycling culture with people who dress the part. Nonetheless, commuters and most tourists dress very Grantesque despite probably never having even heard of RBW. http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/page/pic/?o=Shpic_id= 2211711size=large -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten * *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu *Kinei hos eromenon. It moves as the being-loved. *Aristotle *The Love that moves the Sun and all the other stars. *Dante -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
You use your bike as the shopping cart??? Hmm never thought of that. I guess the floors are concrete, at least at my grocer they are. Wald baskets? On Feb 26, 2015 8:41 PM, Patrick Moore bertin...@gmail.com wrote: You must have walked in SPDs? And my Ram and '03 custom carry groceries just fine, while being fun to ride unladen. As for theft, I usually wheel the bike through the aisles in place of a shopping cart. at least 3/4 of my riding is turning shopping and errand trips into cycling detours on such bikes. At 12 to 20 miles each, rt, it's worth my while to change into cycling kit -- such as it is. Certainly SPDs. On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 7:36 PM, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: It's a right pain walking around in a store shopping wearing cycling shoes. Also, odds are good a bike you'd use on a regular ride couldn't carry groceries anyway. On top of that, what are the chances the bike would be stolen? Hardly worth taking the risk. It's a lot more than just too much trouble to get into the uniform. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten * *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu *Kinei hos eromenon. It moves as the being-loved. *Aristotle *The Love that moves the Sun and all the other stars. *Dante -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
Hah Marc, that gave me a laugh. Reminds me of last summer, I was riding my Atlantis with a big ol basket down a smooth paved road, moderate pace. I came up alongside a guy riding a brand new Look carbon bike. It was by all means a thoroughbred race machine. We got to a pair of railway tracks at the same time, but he dismounted, carried his bike over, remounted and continued riding at maybe 20km/h. What is the point of owning a bike that you're too scared to ride over railway tracks? (and these were recessed tracks in the road. Similar to riding over a small crack in the pavement). Anyway, I know it's petty and I know it doesn't help anything, but I still feel a twinge of smug satisfaction passing roadies in my denim cutoffs, flat pedals and basket. That is, unless it's ME out for a road ride in 'kit' and get passed. Then I'm thrown into a rage hah! C'est la vie On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 8:54 AM, Marc Irwin irwin7...@gmail.com wrote: This reminds me of the first charity ride I did on my Hillborne (with Bosco Bars). A rider came up beside me, asked about the bike, then asked why anybody would want a bike like that? I said, I can take this to the grocery store, ride a metric century comfortably, or take a trip over the Himalayas. What can you do with that? (pointing to his crabon crotch rocket). He just shook his head and rode away. I passed he and his crew of spandex hamsters after the second rest stop. They tend to start loosing it at 30 miles. One of these days I'm going to do one in a pair of cutoffs (diamond gusset), a nascar t shirt and Cubs batting helmet just for fun. I might even roll a pack of Winstons up in my sleeve for good measure. Marc On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 12:56:19 PM UTC-5, Anne Paulson wrote: On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 5:38 AM, Addison Wilhite addison...@gmail.com wrote: I kind of feel like the revolution is over and we won. Anymore, while I can certainly find the carbon roadie types, they aren't living in the niche. Just like the extreme downhillers or whatever they are called. I just don't see a lot of riders so focused on 25mm tires that don't also accept the benefits of a fatter tire Not true where I am in Silicon Valley . If I show up at the start of one of my (touring) club's rides, a ride meant for people riding a moderate pace, and I see twenty other riders, there will be one steel bike, and I'll be riding it. There will be no bikes that take tires wider than 28 mm, other than my Roadeo. Typically riders have 25 mm tires pumped up rock hard. Everyone will have lycra shorts including me (haven't found anything else that works for me) and everyone else will be wearing roadie jerseys with sublimated graphics. There's one club ride I go on, an easy-paced ride that I do for camaraderie. Most of the riders are like me, over 50, in a lot of cases well over 50. But there is one young woman who shows up on an old Stumpjumper with flat bars, wearing street clothes. Although she has no trouble keeping up, and she has a fine bike, almost every time she has shown up at a ride I'm on someone will explain to her that her bike is wrong and she needs a different one. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/F-3pQcXcdIw/unsubscribe . To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
On 02/26/2015 09:54 AM, Marc Irwin wrote: This reminds me of the first charity ride I did on my Hillborne (with Bosco Bars). A rider came up beside me, asked about the bike, then asked why anybody would want a bike like that? I said, I can take this to the grocery store, ride a metric century comfortably, or take a trip over the Himalayas. What can you do with that? (pointing to his crabon crotch rocket). He just shook his head and rode away. I passed he and his crew of*spandex hamsters* after the second rest stop. They tend to start loosing it at 30 miles. One of these days I'm going to do one in a pair of cutoffs (diamond gusset), a nascar t shirt and Cubs batting helmet just for fun. I might even roll a pack of Winstons up in my sleeve for good measure. Really, do we have to say things like this? If you don't like lycra don't wear it, but I think calling people spandex hamsters is way beyond the pale. And as for Winstons... :-X -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
On 02/27/2015 01:14 AM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote: When your bike weighs 90 pounds, a 2nd top tube may actually be doing you some good! I cannot agree and feel compelled to reply because I think others could be misled. I'm no heavyweight (170 lbs.) and commute on a 2-TT 60cm Hillborne. Granted I carry a commuters load in the rear but nothing close to a 90 lbs. bike. When I stand to climb hills, which I do every day, I'll get a bit of chain rub on the front derailleur even when the adjustment is finely tuned; friction shifting of course. I'm no expert, but I believe this would be caused by frame flex. AND THATs with a 2nd top tube. I'd hate to think what this particular frame would be like without. So the ride is not as stiff as some might believe. Matt, I think you are wrong. I weigh 50 lb more than you, and when I climb out of the saddle with my George Longstaff (standard diam 7/5/7 with 8/5/8 downtube, and so vastly more flexible than your Hillborne) I have no front derailleur chain rub. In fact, I have never had front derailleur chain rub from riding out of the saddle. If there's a problem there, I'm quite sure it isn't frame flex that's the cause. As for the frame's stiffness, I'm quite confident that it is at least as stiff as a 60 cm Rambouillet or a 60 cm Saluki, both of which I formerly owned and sold because I felt they were too stiff for me. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
RE: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
Anne, I do the same. A SaddleSack Large and a double kickstand makes it really easy. My bike is slimmer and easier to maneuver than a shopping cart. Yes, not having to carry and futz with a lock is a big bonus. Doug From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anne Paulson Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 9:35 PM To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor I often stop by the grocery store on the way home from a ride. If I don't have a lock with me, I use the two wheeled grocery cart. Sent from my iPad On Feb 26, 2015, at 6:57 PM, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On 02/26/2015 09:40 PM, Patrick Moore wrote: You must have walked in SPDs? And my Ram and '03 custom carry groceries just fine, while being fun to ride unladen. As for theft, I usually wheel the bike through the aisles in place of a shopping cart. I didn't say it couldn't be done, obviously it can be, but that's pretty much the interior dialog. I have a bike I can ride in regular street clothes and shoes that I use for errands. Lots of people bring bikes to the grocery store, but I have never yet even once in my entire life seen anyone bring one into the store. at least 3/4 of my riding is turning shopping and errand trips into cycling detours on such bikes. At 12 to 20 miles each, rt, it's worth my while to change into cycling kit -- such as it is. Certainly SPDs. On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 7:36 PM, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: It's a right pain walking around in a store shopping wearing cycling shoes. Also, odds are good a bike you'd use on a regular ride couldn't carry groceries anyway. On top of that, what are the chances the bike would be stolen? Hardly worth taking the risk. It's a lot more than just too much trouble to get into the uniform. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/F-3pQcXcdIw/unsubscribe. To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
RE: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
I use my bike as a shopping cart all the time. Never had any business say anything negative at all. Doug From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Bronson Sent: Friday, February 27, 2015 6:46 AM To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor You use your bike as the shopping cart??? Hmm never thought of that. I guess the floors are concrete, at least at my grocer they are. Wald baskets? On Feb 26, 2015 8:41 PM, Patrick Moore bertin...@gmail.com wrote: You must have walked in SPDs? And my Ram and '03 custom carry groceries just fine, while being fun to ride unladen. As for theft, I usually wheel the bike through the aisles in place of a shopping cart. at least 3/4 of my riding is turning shopping and errand trips into cycling detours on such bikes. At 12 to 20 miles each, rt, it's worth my while to change into cycling kit -- such as it is. Certainly SPDs. On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 7:36 PM, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: It's a right pain walking around in a store shopping wearing cycling shoes. Also, odds are good a bike you'd use on a regular ride couldn't carry groceries anyway. On top of that, what are the chances the bike would be stolen? Hardly worth taking the risk. It's a lot more than just too much trouble to get into the uniform. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten * The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities revolve. Chuang Tzu Kinei hos eromenon. It moves as the being-loved. Aristotle The Love that moves the Sun and all the other stars. Dante -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/F-3pQcXcdIw/unsubscribe. To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
If the store manager complains, I wonder if they could be convinced that the bike is less intrusive than the store's own wheeled carts. Less wide and tires that are probably a tiny bit less likely to mark the floor. (Those swiveling shopping cart wheels are less in control and sometimes scrape sideways.) I love the bike as shopping cart idea, Patrick and Anne! Sent from my iPhone On Feb 27, 2015, at 6:46 AM, Jim Bronson jim.bron...@gmail.com wrote: You use your bike as the shopping cart??? Hmm never thought of that. I guess the floors are concrete, at least at my grocer they are. Wald baskets? On Feb 26, 2015 8:41 PM, Patrick Moore bertin...@gmail.com wrote: You must have walked in SPDs? And my Ram and '03 custom carry groceries just fine, while being fun to ride unladen. As for theft, I usually wheel the bike through the aisles in place of a shopping cart. at least 3/4 of my riding is turning shopping and errand trips into cycling detours on such bikes. At 12 to 20 miles each, rt, it's worth my while to change into cycling kit -- such as it is. Certainly SPDs. On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 7:36 PM, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: It's a right pain walking around in a store shopping wearing cycling shoes. Also, odds are good a bike you'd use on a regular ride couldn't carry groceries anyway. On top of that, what are the chances the bike would be stolen? Hardly worth taking the risk. It's a lot more than just too much trouble to get into the uniform. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten * The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities revolve. Chuang Tzu Kinei hos eromenon. It moves as the being-loved. Aristotle The Love that moves the Sun and all the other stars. Dante -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
Man if they were going to name a bike after me, they could have at least made a tall enough frame. On Feb 27, 2015 1:26 AM, David Yu Greenblatt david.yu.greenbl...@gmail.com wrote: That Steve Peat fellow knows how to have fun on a bike. s24o in Scotland: https://vimeo.com/67430580 Going for a little spin with 3 of his pals on 650b bikes in France: https://vimeo.com/63027254 David G in San Diego On Feb 26, 2015, at 2:55 PM, Mark Reimer marknrei...@gmail.com wrote: Oh I wouldn't be so sure about that... http://theradavist.com/2015/02/santa-cruz-stigmata-cross-video/ On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 4:53 PM, ascpgh asc@gmail.com wrote: It's odd, no spandex hamsters riding now. I guess riding across the minus whatever, snow and ice covered darkness on studded tires with fenders generator hubs and lights isn't their magazine ad. Andy Cheatham Pittsburgh On Thursday, February 26, 2015 at 9:54:30 AM UTC-5, Marc Irwin wrote: This reminds me of the first charity ride I did on my Hillborne (with Bosco Bars). A rider came up beside me, asked about the bike, then asked why anybody would want a bike like that? I said, I can take this to the grocery store, ride a metric century comfortably, or take a trip over the Himalayas. What can you do with that? (pointing to his crabon crotch rocket). He just shook his head and rode away. I passed he and his crew of spandex hamsters after the second rest stop. They tend to start loosing it at 30 miles. One of these days I'm going to do one in a pair of cutoffs (diamond gusset), a nascar t shirt and Cubs batting helmet just for fun. I might even roll a pack of Winstons up in my sleeve for good measure. Marc On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 12:56:19 PM UTC-5, Anne Paulson wrote: On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 5:38 AM, Addison Wilhite addison...@gmail.com wrote: I kind of feel like the revolution is over and we won. Anymore, while I can certainly find the carbon roadie types, they aren't living in the niche. Just like the extreme downhillers or whatever they are called. I just don't see a lot of riders so focused on 25mm tires that don't also accept the benefits of a fatter tire Not true where I am in Silicon Valley . If I show up at the start of one of my (touring) club's rides, a ride meant for people riding a moderate pace, and I see twenty other riders, there will be one steel bike, and I'll be riding it. There will be no bikes that take tires wider than 28 mm, other than my Roadeo. Typically riders have 25 mm tires pumped up rock hard. Everyone will have lycra shorts including me (haven't found anything else that works for me) and everyone else will be wearing roadie jerseys with sublimated graphics. There's one club ride I go on, an easy-paced ride that I do for camaraderie. Most of the riders are like me, over 50, in a lot of cases well over 50. But there is one young woman who shows up on an old Stumpjumper with flat bars, wearing street clothes. Although she has no trouble keeping up, and she has a fine bike, almost every time she has shown up at a ride I'm on someone will explain to her that her bike is wrong and she needs a different one. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/F-3pQcXcdIw/unsubscribe . To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
If it isn't the frame than I suppose it must be the Sugino crank. Something's flexing. Matt On Friday, February 27, 2015 at 4:46:38 AM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 02/27/2015 01:14 AM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote: When your bike weighs 90 pounds, a 2nd top tube may actually be doing you some good! I cannot agree and feel compelled to reply because I think others could be misled. I'm no heavyweight (170 lbs.) and commute on a 2-TT 60cm Hillborne. Granted I carry a commuters load in the rear but nothing close to a 90 lbs. bike. When I stand to climb hills, which I do every day, I'll get a bit of chain rub on the front derailleur even when the adjustment is finely tuned; friction shifting of course. I'm no expert, but I believe this would be caused by frame flex. AND THATs with a 2nd top tube. I'd hate to think what this particular frame would be like without. So the ride is not as stiff as some might believe. Matt, I think you are wrong. I weigh 50 lb more than you, and when I climb out of the saddle with my George Longstaff (standard diam 7/5/7 with 8/5/8 downtube, and so vastly more flexible than your Hillborne) I have no front derailleur chain rub. In fact, I have never had front derailleur chain rub from riding out of the saddle. If there's a problem there, I'm quite sure it isn't frame flex that's the cause. As for the frame's stiffness, I'm quite confident that it is at least as stiff as a 60 cm Rambouillet or a 60 cm Saluki, both of which I formerly owned and sold because I felt they were too stiff for me. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
What kind of crank is it? Some cranks with small BCD and large, stamped rings can flex a lot. On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 11:58 AM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com wrote: If it isn't the frame than I suppose it must be the Sugino crank. Something's flexing. Matt On Friday, February 27, 2015 at 4:46:38 AM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 02/27/2015 01:14 AM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote: When your bike weighs 90 pounds, a 2nd top tube may actually be doing you some good! I cannot agree and feel compelled to reply because I think others could be misled. I'm no heavyweight (170 lbs.) and commute on a 2-TT 60cm Hillborne. Granted I carry a commuters load in the rear but nothing close to a 90 lbs. bike. When I stand to climb hills, which I do every day, I'll get a bit of chain rub on the front derailleur even when the adjustment is finely tuned; friction shifting of course. I'm no expert, but I believe this would be caused by frame flex. AND THATs with a 2nd top tube. I'd hate to think what this particular frame would be like without. So the ride is not as stiff as some might believe. Matt, I think you are wrong. I weigh 50 lb more than you, and when I climb out of the saddle with my George Longstaff (standard diam 7/5/7 with 8/5/8 downtube, and so vastly more flexible than your Hillborne) I have no front derailleur chain rub. In fact, I have never had front derailleur chain rub from riding out of the saddle. If there's a problem there, I'm quite sure it isn't frame flex that's the cause. As for the frame's stiffness, I'm quite confident that it is at least as stiff as a 60 cm Rambouillet or a 60 cm Saluki, both of which I formerly owned and sold because I felt they were too stiff for me. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/F-3pQcXcdIw/unsubscribe . To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
Having tried all kinds of kickstands, I found the best one for intra-aisle shopping is the dropout-mount stand. You can leave it down as you wheel the bike along, even if the drivetrain is fixed. And IME such stands support assymetrical loads better than at least the Pletscher and VO 2-leg stands. My 2 current shopping bikes ('03 and Ram) don't have stands, so I carefully lean them up against fragile displays. On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 7:56 AM, Doug Williams salguod3791willi...@gmail.com wrote: Anne, I do the same. A SaddleSack Large and a double kickstand makes it really easy. My bike is slimmer and easier to maneuver than a shopping cart. Yes, not having to carry and futz with a lock is a big bonus. Doug *From:* rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Anne Paulson *Sent:* Thursday, February 26, 2015 9:35 PM *To:* rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor I often stop by the grocery store on the way home from a ride. If I don't have a lock with me, I use the two wheeled grocery cart. Sent from my iPad On Feb 26, 2015, at 6:57 PM, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On 02/26/2015 09:40 PM, Patrick Moore wrote: You must have walked in SPDs? And my Ram and '03 custom carry groceries just fine, while being fun to ride unladen. As for theft, I usually wheel the bike through the aisles in place of a shopping cart. I didn't say it couldn't be done, obviously it can be, but that's pretty much the interior dialog. I have a bike I can ride in regular street clothes and shoes that I use for errands. Lots of people bring bikes to the grocery store, but I have never yet even once in my entire life seen anyone bring one into the store. at least 3/4 of my riding is turning shopping and errand trips into cycling detours on such bikes. At 12 to 20 miles each, rt, it's worth my while to change into cycling kit -- such as it is. Certainly SPDs. On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 7:36 PM, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: It's a right pain walking around in a store shopping wearing cycling shoes. Also, odds are good a bike you'd use on a regular ride couldn't carry groceries anyway. On top of that, what are the chances the bike would be stolen? Hardly worth taking the risk. It's a lot more than just too much trouble to get into the uniform. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/F-3pQcXcdIw/unsubscribe . To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten * *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu *Kinei hos eromenon. It moves as the being-loved. *Aristotle *The Love that moves the Sun and all the other stars. *Dante -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
RE: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
I know. I literally never remember to line them up before I mount the tires, and then (especially with hard-to-mount tires), I lose my internal aesthetic/practical struggle with myself over whether to remove and remount. My excuse is I haven’t had a flat since 2009 (I know, I know), so I persuade myself it’s only an aesthetic issue. And I already pay way too much attention to aesthetics anyway. But, mea culpa. From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Goshen Peter Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 7:29 PM To: rbw-owners-bunch Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor Bazinga! On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 7:25 PM, Bill Lindsay tapebu...@gmail.commailto:tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: Tire labels not lined up with the valve stems!??!?? DISAPPROVE On Thursday, February 26, 2015 at 4:20:14 PM UTC-8, Pudge wrote: You mean like this? https://www.flickr.com/photos/37542512@N04/8566366471/in/set-72157624552118742 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.commailto:rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.commailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.commailto:rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.commailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- This email (and any attachments thereto) is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (and any attachments thereto) is strictly prohibited. If you receive this email in error please immediately notify me at (212) 735-3000 and permanently delete the original email (and any copy of any email) and any printout thereof. Further information about the firm, a list of the Partners and their professional qualifications will be provided upon request. == -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
If I have a bike with a Wald basket, it's such a beater that I can safely park it unlocked outside. No, large saddlebags and, usually, panniers. When my daughter was very small -- 2 1/2 to 4 or so -- I'd walk from my house to the nearest Albertson's 1/4 mile away, Catie riding, first, a pneumatic tired, freewheeling, parent-steerable Radio Flyer tricycle, then her 12 wheel bicycle through the aisles while I carried a basket. No one complained then or now. I get compliments on my Rivendells. I do this regularly at 2 area Albertson's and a Sprouts. I suppose you have to be a familiar shopper to get away with it. On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 7:46 AM, Jim Bronson jim.bron...@gmail.com wrote: You use your bike as the shopping cart??? Hmm never thought of that. I guess the floors are concrete, at least at my grocer they are. Wald baskets? On Feb 26, 2015 8:41 PM, Patrick Moore bertin...@gmail.com wrote: You must have walked in SPDs? And my Ram and '03 custom carry groceries just fine, while being fun to ride unladen. As for theft, I usually wheel the bike through the aisles in place of a shopping cart. at least 3/4 of my riding is turning shopping and errand trips into cycling detours on such bikes. At 12 to 20 miles each, rt, it's worth my while to change into cycling kit -- such as it is. Certainly SPDs. On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 7:36 PM, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: It's a right pain walking around in a store shopping wearing cycling shoes. Also, odds are good a bike you'd use on a regular ride couldn't carry groceries anyway. On top of that, what are the chances the bike would be stolen? Hardly worth taking the risk. It's a lot more than just too much trouble to get into the uniform. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten * *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu *Kinei hos eromenon. It moves as the being-loved. *Aristotle *The Love that moves the Sun and all the other stars. *Dante -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten * *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu *Kinei hos eromenon. It moves as the being-loved. *Aristotle *The Love that moves the Sun and all the other stars. *Dante -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
RE: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
That’s two Tapebubba “DISAPPROVES” in two months; I’m devastated. ;-) From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Allingham II, Thomas J Sent: Friday, February 27, 2015 10:08 AM To: 'rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com' Subject: RE: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor I know. I literally never remember to line them up before I mount the tires, and then (especially with hard-to-mount tires), I lose my internal aesthetic/practical struggle with myself over whether to remove and remount. My excuse is I haven’t had a flat since 2009 (I know, I know), so I persuade myself it’s only an aesthetic issue. And I already pay way too much attention to aesthetics anyway. But, mea culpa. From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.commailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Goshen Peter Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 7:29 PM To: rbw-owners-bunch Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor Bazinga! On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 7:25 PM, Bill Lindsay tapebu...@gmail.commailto:tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: Tire labels not lined up with the valve stems!??!?? DISAPPROVE On Thursday, February 26, 2015 at 4:20:14 PM UTC-8, Pudge wrote: You mean like this? https://www.flickr.com/photos/37542512@N04/8566366471/in/set-72157624552118742 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.commailto:rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.commailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.commailto:rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.commailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- This email (and any attachments thereto) is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (and any attachments thereto) is strictly prohibited. If you receive this email in error please immediately notify me at (212) 735-3000 and permanently delete the original email (and any copy of any email) and any printout thereof. Further information about the firm, a list of the Partners and their professional qualifications will be provided upon request. == -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.commailto:rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.commailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- This email (and any attachments thereto) is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (and any attachments thereto) is strictly prohibited. If you receive this email in error please immediately notify me at (212) 735-3000 and permanently delete the original email (and any copy of any email) and any printout thereof. Further information about the firm, a list of the Partners and their professional qualifications will be provided upon request. == -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
It's the standard Sugino XD 600. On Friday, February 27, 2015 at 9:59:33 AM UTC-8, Mark Reimer wrote: What kind of crank is it? Some cranks with small BCD and large, stamped rings can flex a lot. On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 11:58 AM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com javascript: wrote: If it isn't the frame than I suppose it must be the Sugino crank. Something's flexing. Matt On Friday, February 27, 2015 at 4:46:38 AM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 02/27/2015 01:14 AM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote: When your bike weighs 90 pounds, a 2nd top tube may actually be doing you some good! I cannot agree and feel compelled to reply because I think others could be misled. I'm no heavyweight (170 lbs.) and commute on a 2-TT 60cm Hillborne. Granted I carry a commuters load in the rear but nothing close to a 90 lbs. bike. When I stand to climb hills, which I do every day, I'll get a bit of chain rub on the front derailleur even when the adjustment is finely tuned; friction shifting of course. I'm no expert, but I believe this would be caused by frame flex. AND THATs with a 2nd top tube. I'd hate to think what this particular frame would be like without. So the ride is not as stiff as some might believe. Matt, I think you are wrong. I weigh 50 lb more than you, and when I climb out of the saddle with my George Longstaff (standard diam 7/5/7 with 8/5/8 downtube, and so vastly more flexible than your Hillborne) I have no front derailleur chain rub. In fact, I have never had front derailleur chain rub from riding out of the saddle. If there's a problem there, I'm quite sure it isn't frame flex that's the cause. As for the frame's stiffness, I'm quite confident that it is at least as stiff as a 60 cm Rambouillet or a 60 cm Saluki, both of which I formerly owned and sold because I felt they were too stiff for me. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/F-3pQcXcdIw/unsubscribe . To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com javascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
If you call yourself an Unracer doesn't that mean you still have some form of preoccupation with racing? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
On Thursday, February 26, 2015 at 9:36:30 PM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 02/26/2015 08:06 PM, Doug Williams wrote: Perfect Geir! Just wear whatever works for the ride you will be doing. Exercise clothes or racing kit are fine if that is what you are doing. Nothing wrong with bike clothes for a long and/or hard ride. But bike shoes and jerseys in the grocery store are just…well…whatever. Again, I maintain that MANY bicyclists simply can’t imagine going on a “regular ride” in “regular clothes”. They miss out on many good rides because they simply can’t ride without their racing kit. In the time spent getting dressed, I could have already been at the grocery store. The result is that the “racing kit crowd” never ride on short errand rides, because it is just too much trouble to get into their uniform. It's a right pain walking around in a store shopping wearing cycling shoes. Also, odds are good a bike you'd use on a regular ride couldn't carry groceries anyway. On top of that, what are the chances the bike would be stolen? Hardly worth taking the risk. It's a lot more than just too much trouble to get into the uniform. Uniform schmooniform. I wear my SPD shoes/sandals all summer long without any problems, in stores or out. And my only bike is good for centuries or groceries. Most days I wear regular clothes to the office. Sometimes I wear wool. It's all good. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
Totally. Let's all be Un-Unracers! Oh, wait...darnit! On Friday, February 27, 2015 at 2:52:14 PM UTC-8, Trenker wrote: If you call yourself an Unracer doesn't that mean you still have some form of preoccupation with racing? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
No problem keeping the beer cool. dougP On Thursday, February 26, 2015 at 8:03:24 PM UTC-8, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote: That Atlantis looks haaawt with those Nanoraptors! On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 8:00 PM, Mark Reimer markn...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: Anton, I got you! I'm not from around those parts. I'm more than accustomed to riding in 'real' winter conditions... Today it was -30C. Hey, that's almost ten degrees warmer than last week, spring is on the way [image: Inline image 1] On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 8:36 PM, Anton Tutter atu...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: Sorry, Mark, we here in the northeast US call that a dusting. I'm afraid that doesn't compare at all to what we've been getting over here. This is how cyclists were rolling in the town next to mine the past couple weeks. No spandex here. http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/2015-02/23/8/enhanced/webdr11/enhanced-4191-1424699631-17.jpg http://cdnph.upi.com/sh/th/i/UPI-3761424787153/2015/14247880704634/Vandals-collapse-40-foot-snow-tunnel-dug-by-Mass-cyclists.jpg Anton not wearing spandex in this 101.7 inches of snowfall Tutter in Somerville, MA On Thursday, February 26, 2015 at 5:55:23 PM UTC-5, Mark Reimer wrote: Oh I wouldn't be so sure about that... http://theradavist.com/2015/02/santa-cruz-stigmata-cross-video/ On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 4:53 PM, ascpgh asc...@gmail.com wrote: It's odd, no spandex hamsters riding now. I guess riding across the minus whatever, snow and ice covered darkness on studded tires with fenders generator hubs and lights isn't their magazine ad. Andy Cheatham Pittsburgh On Thursday, February 26, 2015 at 9:54:30 AM UTC-5, Marc Irwin wrote: This reminds me of the first charity ride I did on my Hillborne (with Bosco Bars). A rider came up beside me, asked about the bike, then asked why anybody would want a bike like that? I said, I can take this to the grocery store, ride a metric century comfortably, or take a trip over the Himalayas. What can you do with that? (pointing to his crabon crotch rocket). He just shook his head and rode away. I passed he and his crew of spandex hamsters after the second rest stop. They tend to start loosing it at 30 miles. One of these days I'm going to do one in a pair of cutoffs (diamond gusset), a nascar t shirt and Cubs batting helmet just for fun. I might even roll a pack of Winstons up in my sleeve for good measure. Marc On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 12:56:19 PM UTC-5, Anne Paulson wrote: On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 5:38 AM, Addison Wilhite addison...@gmail.com wrote: I kind of feel like the revolution is over and we won. Anymore, while I can certainly find the carbon roadie types, they aren't living in the niche. Just like the extreme downhillers or whatever they are called. I just don't see a lot of riders so focused on 25mm tires that don't also accept the benefits of a fatter tire Not true where I am in Silicon Valley . If I show up at the start of one of my (touring) club's rides, a ride meant for people riding a moderate pace, and I see twenty other riders, there will be one steel bike, and I'll be riding it. There will be no bikes that take tires wider than 28 mm, other than my Roadeo. Typically riders have 25 mm tires pumped up rock hard. Everyone will have lycra shorts including me (haven't found anything else that works for me) and everyone else will be wearing roadie jerseys with sublimated graphics. There's one club ride I go on, an easy-paced ride that I do for camaraderie. Most of the riders are like me, over 50, in a lot of cases well over 50. But there is one young woman who shows up on an old Stumpjumper with flat bars, wearing street clothes. Although she has no trouble keeping up, and she has a fine bike, almost every time she has shown up at a ride I'm on someone will explain to her that her bike is wrong and she needs a different one. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/ topic/rbw-owners-bunch/F-3pQcXcdIw/unsubscribe. To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/F-3pQcXcdIw/unsubscribe . To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
I often stop by the grocery store on the way home from a ride. If I don't have a lock with me, I use the two wheeled grocery cart. Sent from my iPad On Feb 26, 2015, at 6:57 PM, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On 02/26/2015 09:40 PM, Patrick Moore wrote: You must have walked in SPDs? And my Ram and '03 custom carry groceries just fine, while being fun to ride unladen. As for theft, I usually wheel the bike through the aisles in place of a shopping cart. I didn't say it couldn't be done, obviously it can be, but that's pretty much the interior dialog. I have a bike I can ride in regular street clothes and shoes that I use for errands. Lots of people bring bikes to the grocery store, but I have never yet even once in my entire life seen anyone bring one into the store. at least 3/4 of my riding is turning shopping and errand trips into cycling detours on such bikes. At 12 to 20 miles each, rt, it's worth my while to change into cycling kit -- such as it is. Certainly SPDs. On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 7:36 PM, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: It's a right pain walking around in a store shopping wearing cycling shoes. Also, odds are good a bike you'd use on a regular ride couldn't carry groceries anyway. On top of that, what are the chances the bike would be stolen? Hardly worth taking the risk. It's a lot more than just too much trouble to get into the uniform. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
When your bike weighs 90 pounds, a 2nd top tube may actually be doing you some good! I cannot agree and feel compelled to reply because I think others could be misled. I'm no heavyweight (170 lbs.) and commute on a 2-TT 60cm Hillborne. Granted I carry a commuters load in the rear but nothing close to a 90 lbs. bike. When I stand to climb hills, which I do every day, I'll get a bit of chain rub on the front derailleur even when the adjustment is finely tuned; friction shifting of course. I'm no expert, but I believe this would be caused by frame flex. AND THATs with a 2nd top tube. I'd hate to think what this particular frame would be like without. So the ride is not as stiff as some might believe. I figure the 2nd top tube only adds about 8 oz. to the overall weight of the bike and in return I get a properly designed frame, for my uses anyway, and a conversation piece that seems to draw attention. Afterall, it's not like a person in the USA sees a double top tube bike everyday. Prior to my purchase I never thought I'd own a 2-TT. As a matter of fact, the first time I visited RIvendell I wouldn't even ride one. But the second time around I bought one! 12,000 miles later I've never regretted it once. Matt On Thursday, February 26, 2015 at 12:49:45 PM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote: When your bike weighs 90 pounds, a 2nd top tube may actually be doing you some good! I'm happy to have a diagonal tube on a tandem, too. Jan notwithstanding, I had a French tandem once with twin external laterals. They were decorative and made a nice place to cradle a water bottle, but provided no lateral stiffness whatsoever. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
That Steve Peat fellow knows how to have fun on a bike. s24o in Scotland: https://vimeo.com/67430580 Going for a little spin with 3 of his pals on 650b bikes in France: https://vimeo.com/63027254 David G in San Diego On Feb 26, 2015, at 2:55 PM, Mark Reimer marknrei...@gmail.com wrote: Oh I wouldn't be so sure about that... http://theradavist.com/2015/02/santa-cruz-stigmata-cross-video/ On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 4:53 PM, ascpgh asc@gmail.com wrote: It's odd, no spandex hamsters riding now. I guess riding across the minus whatever, snow and ice covered darkness on studded tires with fenders generator hubs and lights isn't their magazine ad. Andy Cheatham Pittsburgh On Thursday, February 26, 2015 at 9:54:30 AM UTC-5, Marc Irwin wrote: This reminds me of the first charity ride I did on my Hillborne (with Bosco Bars). A rider came up beside me, asked about the bike, then asked why anybody would want a bike like that? I said, I can take this to the grocery store, ride a metric century comfortably, or take a trip over the Himalayas. What can you do with that? (pointing to his crabon crotch rocket). He just shook his head and rode away. I passed he and his crew of spandex hamsters after the second rest stop. They tend to start loosing it at 30 miles. One of these days I'm going to do one in a pair of cutoffs (diamond gusset), a nascar t shirt and Cubs batting helmet just for fun. I might even roll a pack of Winstons up in my sleeve for good measure. Marc On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 12:56:19 PM UTC-5, Anne Paulson wrote: On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 5:38 AM, Addison Wilhite addison...@gmail.com wrote: I kind of feel like the revolution is over and we won. Anymore, while I can certainly find the carbon roadie types, they aren't living in the niche. Just like the extreme downhillers or whatever they are called. I just don't see a lot of riders so focused on 25mm tires that don't also accept the benefits of a fatter tire Not true where I am in Silicon Valley . If I show up at the start of one of my (touring) club's rides, a ride meant for people riding a moderate pace, and I see twenty other riders, there will be one steel bike, and I'll be riding it. There will be no bikes that take tires wider than 28 mm, other than my Roadeo. Typically riders have 25 mm tires pumped up rock hard. Everyone will have lycra shorts including me (haven't found anything else that works for me) and everyone else will be wearing roadie jerseys with sublimated graphics. There's one club ride I go on, an easy-paced ride that I do for camaraderie. Most of the riders are like me, over 50, in a lot of cases well over 50. But there is one young woman who shows up on an old Stumpjumper with flat bars, wearing street clothes. Although she has no trouble keeping up, and she has a fine bike, almost every time she has shown up at a ride I'm on someone will explain to her that her bike is wrong and she needs a different one. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/F-3pQcXcdIw/unsubscribe. To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
Oh I wouldn't be so sure about that... http://theradavist.com/2015/02/santa-cruz-stigmata-cross-video/ On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 4:53 PM, ascpgh asc@gmail.com wrote: It's odd, no spandex hamsters riding now. I guess riding across the minus whatever, snow and ice covered darkness on studded tires with fenders generator hubs and lights isn't their magazine ad. Andy Cheatham Pittsburgh On Thursday, February 26, 2015 at 9:54:30 AM UTC-5, Marc Irwin wrote: This reminds me of the first charity ride I did on my Hillborne (with Bosco Bars). A rider came up beside me, asked about the bike, then asked why anybody would want a bike like that? I said, I can take this to the grocery store, ride a metric century comfortably, or take a trip over the Himalayas. What can you do with that? (pointing to his crabon crotch rocket). He just shook his head and rode away. I passed he and his crew of spandex hamsters after the second rest stop. They tend to start loosing it at 30 miles. One of these days I'm going to do one in a pair of cutoffs (diamond gusset), a nascar t shirt and Cubs batting helmet just for fun. I might even roll a pack of Winstons up in my sleeve for good measure. Marc On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 12:56:19 PM UTC-5, Anne Paulson wrote: On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 5:38 AM, Addison Wilhite addison...@gmail.com wrote: I kind of feel like the revolution is over and we won. Anymore, while I can certainly find the carbon roadie types, they aren't living in the niche. Just like the extreme downhillers or whatever they are called. I just don't see a lot of riders so focused on 25mm tires that don't also accept the benefits of a fatter tire Not true where I am in Silicon Valley . If I show up at the start of one of my (touring) club's rides, a ride meant for people riding a moderate pace, and I see twenty other riders, there will be one steel bike, and I'll be riding it. There will be no bikes that take tires wider than 28 mm, other than my Roadeo. Typically riders have 25 mm tires pumped up rock hard. Everyone will have lycra shorts including me (haven't found anything else that works for me) and everyone else will be wearing roadie jerseys with sublimated graphics. There's one club ride I go on, an easy-paced ride that I do for camaraderie. Most of the riders are like me, over 50, in a lot of cases well over 50. But there is one young woman who shows up on an old Stumpjumper with flat bars, wearing street clothes. Although she has no trouble keeping up, and she has a fine bike, almost every time she has shown up at a ride I'm on someone will explain to her that her bike is wrong and she needs a different one. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/F-3pQcXcdIw/unsubscribe . To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
Well that should sell a bunch of stretchy light weight bikey stuff! I had to stop half way through the video to catch my breath ;) Fun to watch. On Feb 26, 2015 2:55 PM, Mark Reimer marknrei...@gmail.com wrote: Oh I wouldn't be so sure about that... http://theradavist.com/2015/02/santa-cruz-stigmata-cross-video/ On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 4:53 PM, ascpgh asc@gmail.com wrote: It's odd, no spandex hamsters riding now. I guess riding across the minus whatever, snow and ice covered darkness on studded tires with fenders generator hubs and lights isn't their magazine ad. Andy Cheatham Pittsburgh On Thursday, February 26, 2015 at 9:54:30 AM UTC-5, Marc Irwin wrote: This reminds me of the first charity ride I did on my Hillborne (with Bosco Bars). A rider came up beside me, asked about the bike, then asked why anybody would want a bike like that? I said, I can take this to the grocery store, ride a metric century comfortably, or take a trip over the Himalayas. What can you do with that? (pointing to his crabon crotch rocket). He just shook his head and rode away. I passed he and his crew of spandex hamsters after the second rest stop. They tend to start loosing it at 30 miles. One of these days I'm going to do one in a pair of cutoffs (diamond gusset), a nascar t shirt and Cubs batting helmet just for fun. I might even roll a pack of Winstons up in my sleeve for good measure. Marc On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 12:56:19 PM UTC-5, Anne Paulson wrote: On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 5:38 AM, Addison Wilhite addison...@gmail.com wrote: I kind of feel like the revolution is over and we won. Anymore, while I can certainly find the carbon roadie types, they aren't living in the niche. Just like the extreme downhillers or whatever they are called. I just don't see a lot of riders so focused on 25mm tires that don't also accept the benefits of a fatter tire Not true where I am in Silicon Valley . If I show up at the start of one of my (touring) club's rides, a ride meant for people riding a moderate pace, and I see twenty other riders, there will be one steel bike, and I'll be riding it. There will be no bikes that take tires wider than 28 mm, other than my Roadeo. Typically riders have 25 mm tires pumped up rock hard. Everyone will have lycra shorts including me (haven't found anything else that works for me) and everyone else will be wearing roadie jerseys with sublimated graphics. There's one club ride I go on, an easy-paced ride that I do for camaraderie. Most of the riders are like me, over 50, in a lot of cases well over 50. But there is one young woman who shows up on an old Stumpjumper with flat bars, wearing street clothes. Although she has no trouble keeping up, and she has a fine bike, almost every time she has shown up at a ride I'm on someone will explain to her that her bike is wrong and she needs a different one. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/F-3pQcXcdIw/unsubscribe . To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/F-3pQcXcdIw/unsubscribe . To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
Bill, I always thought it would have been great to get my silca painted to match the bombadil so from a feet away TRIPLE TUBED! On Feb 26, 2015 6:05 PM, Hugh Smitham hughsmit...@gmail.com wrote: Well that should sell a bunch of stretchy light weight bikey stuff! I had to stop half way through the video to catch my breath ;) Fun to watch. On Feb 26, 2015 2:55 PM, Mark Reimer marknrei...@gmail.com wrote: Oh I wouldn't be so sure about that... http://theradavist.com/2015/02/santa-cruz-stigmata-cross-video/ On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 4:53 PM, ascpgh asc@gmail.com wrote: It's odd, no spandex hamsters riding now. I guess riding across the minus whatever, snow and ice covered darkness on studded tires with fenders generator hubs and lights isn't their magazine ad. Andy Cheatham Pittsburgh On Thursday, February 26, 2015 at 9:54:30 AM UTC-5, Marc Irwin wrote: This reminds me of the first charity ride I did on my Hillborne (with Bosco Bars). A rider came up beside me, asked about the bike, then asked why anybody would want a bike like that? I said, I can take this to the grocery store, ride a metric century comfortably, or take a trip over the Himalayas. What can you do with that? (pointing to his crabon crotch rocket). He just shook his head and rode away. I passed he and his crew of spandex hamsters after the second rest stop. They tend to start loosing it at 30 miles. One of these days I'm going to do one in a pair of cutoffs (diamond gusset), a nascar t shirt and Cubs batting helmet just for fun. I might even roll a pack of Winstons up in my sleeve for good measure. Marc On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 12:56:19 PM UTC-5, Anne Paulson wrote: On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 5:38 AM, Addison Wilhite addison...@gmail.com wrote: I kind of feel like the revolution is over and we won. Anymore, while I can certainly find the carbon roadie types, they aren't living in the niche. Just like the extreme downhillers or whatever they are called. I just don't see a lot of riders so focused on 25mm tires that don't also accept the benefits of a fatter tire Not true where I am in Silicon Valley . If I show up at the start of one of my (touring) club's rides, a ride meant for people riding a moderate pace, and I see twenty other riders, there will be one steel bike, and I'll be riding it. There will be no bikes that take tires wider than 28 mm, other than my Roadeo. Typically riders have 25 mm tires pumped up rock hard. Everyone will have lycra shorts including me (haven't found anything else that works for me) and everyone else will be wearing roadie jerseys with sublimated graphics. There's one club ride I go on, an easy-paced ride that I do for camaraderie. Most of the riders are like me, over 50, in a lot of cases well over 50. But there is one young woman who shows up on an old Stumpjumper with flat bars, wearing street clothes. Although she has no trouble keeping up, and she has a fine bike, almost every time she has shown up at a ride I'm on someone will explain to her that her bike is wrong and she needs a different one. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/F-3pQcXcdIw/unsubscribe . To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/F-3pQcXcdIw/unsubscribe . To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
RE: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
You mean like this? https://www.flickr.com/photos/37542512@N04/8566366471/in/set-72157624552118742 From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Goshen Peter Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 6:11 PM To: rbw-owners-bunch Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor Bill, I always thought it would have been great to get my silca painted to match the bombadil so from a feet away TRIPLE TUBED! On Feb 26, 2015 6:05 PM, Hugh Smitham hughsmit...@gmail.commailto:hughsmit...@gmail.com wrote: Well that should sell a bunch of stretchy light weight bikey stuff! I had to stop half way through the video to catch my breath ;) Fun to watch. On Feb 26, 2015 2:55 PM, Mark Reimer marknrei...@gmail.commailto:marknrei...@gmail.com wrote: Oh I wouldn't be so sure about that... http://theradavist.com/2015/02/santa-cruz-stigmata-cross-video/ On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 4:53 PM, ascpgh asc@gmail.commailto:asc@gmail.com wrote: It's odd, no spandex hamsters riding now. I guess riding across the minus whatever, snow and ice covered darkness on studded tires with fenders generator hubs and lights isn't their magazine ad. Andy Cheatham Pittsburgh On Thursday, February 26, 2015 at 9:54:30 AM UTC-5, Marc Irwin wrote: This reminds me of the first charity ride I did on my Hillborne (with Bosco Bars). A rider came up beside me, asked about the bike, then asked why anybody would want a bike like that? I said, I can take this to the grocery store, ride a metric century comfortably, or take a trip over the Himalayas. What can you do with that? (pointing to his crabon crotch rocket). He just shook his head and rode away. I passed he and his crew of spandex hamsters after the second rest stop. They tend to start loosing it at 30 miles. One of these days I'm going to do one in a pair of cutoffs (diamond gusset), a nascar t shirt and Cubs batting helmet just for fun. I might even roll a pack of Winstons up in my sleeve for good measure. Marc On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 12:56:19 PM UTC-5, Anne Paulson wrote: On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 5:38 AM, Addison Wilhite addison...@gmail.com wrote: I kind of feel like the revolution is over and we won. Anymore, while I can certainly find the carbon roadie types, they aren't living in the niche. Just like the extreme downhillers or whatever they are called. I just don't see a lot of riders so focused on 25mm tires that don't also accept the benefits of a fatter tire Not true where I am in Silicon Valley . If I show up at the start of one of my (touring) club's rides, a ride meant for people riding a moderate pace, and I see twenty other riders, there will be one steel bike, and I'll be riding it. There will be no bikes that take tires wider than 28 mm, other than my Roadeo. Typically riders have 25 mm tires pumped up rock hard. Everyone will have lycra shorts including me (haven't found anything else that works for me) and everyone else will be wearing roadie jerseys with sublimated graphics. There's one club ride I go on, an easy-paced ride that I do for camaraderie. Most of the riders are like me, over 50, in a lot of cases well over 50. But there is one young woman who shows up on an old Stumpjumper with flat bars, wearing street clothes. Although she has no trouble keeping up, and she has a fine bike, almost every time she has shown up at a ride I'm on someone will explain to her that her bike is wrong and she needs a different one. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/F-3pQcXcdIw/unsubscribe. To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.commailto:rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.commailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/F-3pQcXcdIw/unsubscribe. To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.commailto:rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.commailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
* Modern cycling jerseys are, IME, very comfortable.ˆ* Andy: first, not at all a snark attack. I am desperately seeking hot weather jerseys that don't stink after 15 minutes of riding. Wool is no good for me in temperatures much over 70F. No one I know of makes cotton knit jerseys. Can you recommend a ss lightweight jersey, cost no object, that is relatively odorless? Thanks. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
This reminds me of the first charity ride I did on my Hillborne (with Bosco Bars). A rider came up beside me, asked about the bike, then asked why anybody would want a bike like that? I said, I can take this to the grocery store, ride a metric century comfortably, or take a trip over the Himalayas. What can you do with that? (pointing to his crabon crotch rocket). He just shook his head and rode away. I passed he and his crew of spandex hamsters after the second rest stop. They tend to start loosing it at 30 miles. One of these days I'm going to do one in a pair of cutoffs (diamond gusset), a nascar t shirt and Cubs batting helmet just for fun. I might even roll a pack of Winstons up in my sleeve for good measure. Marc On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 12:56:19 PM UTC-5, Anne Paulson wrote: On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 5:38 AM, Addison Wilhite addison...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: I kind of feel like the revolution is over and we won. Anymore, while I can certainly find the carbon roadie types, they aren't living in the niche. Just like the extreme downhillers or whatever they are called. I just don't see a lot of riders so focused on 25mm tires that don't also accept the benefits of a fatter tire Not true where I am in Silicon Valley . If I show up at the start of one of my (touring) club's rides, a ride meant for people riding a moderate pace, and I see twenty other riders, there will be one steel bike, and I'll be riding it. There will be no bikes that take tires wider than 28 mm, other than my Roadeo. Typically riders have 25 mm tires pumped up rock hard. Everyone will have lycra shorts including me (haven't found anything else that works for me) and everyone else will be wearing roadie jerseys with sublimated graphics. There's one club ride I go on, an easy-paced ride that I do for camaraderie. Most of the riders are like me, over 50, in a lot of cases well over 50. But there is one young woman who shows up on an old Stumpjumper with flat bars, wearing street clothes. Although she has no trouble keeping up, and she has a fine bike, almost every time she has shown up at a ride I'm on someone will explain to her that her bike is wrong and she needs a different one. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
Patrick: The two Steves speak the truth. I generally get free jerseys from charity rides or pick some up from Long's when they're on sale. I've had some smell a little after a century in humid Wisconsin summer weather, but not badly. It may be that some of us generate more toxic sweat than others--but personally, I don't. Sheep or plastic, they all seem to smell the same when I'm done. Lycra shorts I wash after a long ride (I don't wear them for short rides) just as I would anything else I had used in those conditions. (I know Bill Cosby is a *persona non grata* these days, but I can't help but think of his remarks about his mother always insisting that he wear clean underwear, and imagining her reaction when a police officer tells her he's been in an accident: Did he have clean underwear? Yes. We found it in the glove compartment.) On Thursday, February 26, 2015 at 9:27:06 AM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 02/26/2015 09:22 AM, Patrick Moore wrote: * Modern cycling jerseys are, IME, very comfortable.ˆ* Andy: first, not at all a snark attack. I am desperately seeking hot weather jerseys that don't stink after 15 minutes of riding. Wool is no good for me in temperatures much over 70F. No one I know of makes cotton knit jerseys. Can you recommend a ss lightweight jersey, cost no object, that is relatively odorless? All I can say is, my lycra jerseys do not stink -- not after 15 min, and pretty much not after a whole day of riding. And I do not have to tell you what metro DC summer conditions are like. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
No, it was just a low-grade double, IIRC. This would have been some time around '97. On Thursday, February 26, 2015 at 7:24:00 AM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 02/26/2015 04:10 AM, Andrew Marchant-Shapiro wrote: Grant is a marketeer and an interesting person. To some extent, he *is* trying to get people to drink his Kool-Aid because that's his market space. I well recall when he was selling an older Campy front derailer. It had an oversized clamp, so he sold it with a plastic sleeve that you used over the seat tube to correctly fit it. It was the best thing ever, and I've seen him do that repeatedly with old stock items. So to some extent, yeah, he's just trying to move stock. I don't recall this one, but if it was the Racing T front derailleur then *Hell yes*, it was the best thing ever for 110/74 compact triples and the fact that you needed a shim to get it to fit the seat tube is just the price of doing business. I still marvel at this: why on earth would Campagnolo, a company with a proven track record of no interest or expertise with touring gearing produce what is by far the best front derailleur for such gearing I've ever seen? So, if it was that one, it wasn't just trying to move stock at all. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
On 02/26/2015 09:22 AM, Patrick Moore wrote: / Modern cycling jerseys are, IME, very comfortable.ˆ/ / / Andy: first, not at all a snark attack. I am desperately seeking hot weather jerseys that don't stink after 15 minutes of riding. Wool is no good for me in temperatures much over 70F. No one I know of makes cotton knit jerseys. Can you recommend a ss lightweight jersey, cost no object, that is relatively odorless? All I can say is, my lycra jerseys do not stink -- not after 15 min, and pretty much not after a whole day of riding. And I do not have to tell you what metro DC summer conditions are like. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
I'm another Steve in the DC Metro area and my experience from when I was riding regularly in the summer was similar to Steve P's. The shorts were ride once and wash, for anti fungal reasons, but jerseys did not necessarily need to be washed every time. I used mostly Pearl Isumi jerseys, in addition to some others. Full disclosure, I use antibacterial soap for showering but do not use an antiperspirant (allergic to that). To tie in with current topic, my clothing for longer rides will not/has not changed much since I got my Bleriot and started reading GP's writings, other than to tone down the colors a bit. I have taken his advise re shoes, and find the Thin Gripsters to be quite adequate with rubber-soled casual shoes. I still prefer cycling shorts since anything baggy tends to snag on the saddle horn when remounting after a stop. Steve A -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
Thanks. Oh well. My 2 Pearl Izumi summer jerseys stink as quickly as the others. Wool, OTOH, can go for 8 hours of riding without offending the nearby public (I sweat in winter, too). And yes, I do bathe daily -- my cotton shirts can go at least 2 full day wearings without being offensive. Moving on: if anyone has recommendations for cycling-cut summer jerseys -- particularly, trim fit and rear pockets -- that don't stink even for the smelly bodied, I'd like to hear them. On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 7:47 AM, Andrew Marchant-Shapiro marchantshap...@gmail.com wrote: Patrick: The two Steves speak the truth. I generally get free jerseys from charity rides or pick some up from Long's when they're on sale. I've had some smell a little after a century in humid Wisconsin summer weather, but not badly. It may be that some of us generate more toxic sweat than others--but personally, I don't. Sheep or plastic, they all seem to smell the same when I'm done. Lycra shorts I wash after a long ride (I don't wear them for short rides) just as I would anything else I had used in those conditions. (I know Bill Cosby is a *persona non grata* these days, but I can't help but think of his remarks about his mother always insisting that he wear clean underwear, and imagining her reaction when a police officer tells her he's been in an accident: Did he have clean underwear? Yes. We found it in the glove compartment.) On Thursday, February 26, 2015 at 9:27:06 AM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 02/26/2015 09:22 AM, Patrick Moore wrote: * Modern cycling jerseys are, IME, very comfortable.ˆ* Andy: first, not at all a snark attack. I am desperately seeking hot weather jerseys that don't stink after 15 minutes of riding. Wool is no good for me in temperatures much over 70F. No one I know of makes cotton knit jerseys. Can you recommend a ss lightweight jersey, cost no object, that is relatively odorless? All I can say is, my lycra jerseys do not stink -- not after 15 min, and pretty much not after a whole day of riding. And I do not have to tell you what metro DC summer conditions are like. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten * *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu *Kinei hos eromenon. It moves as the being-loved. *Aristotle *The Love that moves the Sun and all the other stars. *Dante -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 3:15:16 PM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 02/25/2015 05:39 PM, Brewster Fong wrote: Now, this is nothing but anedotal and just one example, but for my buddy, the right tool got him going! I don't care what it was made out of, but the supposedly stiff, uncomfortable aluminum frame road bike got him hooked and we love it! Some of those Alu Specialized road bikes have riding positions very similar to what GP was advocating back in 2002. I know quite a few people who have them and like them a lot. I think the Zerts inserts are pure placebo and the bikes would be better off with something wider than a 25mm tire, but for something you can just walk into a LBS and get for (by modern standards) relatively cheap money, there are lots worse bikes people could buy. Yes, it is not just Specialized, but all the biggies - Trek, C'dale and Giant to name a few - now offer more upright riding position for all their bikes. For example, Trek sells its carbon bikes with a H1 fit. That's the standard racing fit with low, low bars and super high saddles. BUT, they also sell the same frames/bikes with a H2 fit that has higher bars and a more upright riding position. In fact, this is how the new 10.25lb Trek Emondo, or whatever it is called, is being offered. Then again, if you're really going to spend $15k for a bike, it better be available in any position that you want! I believe the credit for this positioning goes to Grant and his famous raise dat stem article that came out in the late 90s?! Now, if we can only do something about G's fetish with double top tubes (on a 56cm frame!) and carbon bashing, we might have somethingGood Luck! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
RE: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
Annnd we have reached the dead of winter! From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Lindsay Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 2:13 PM To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor I own a 56cm Rivendell with a second top tube. Brewster Fong thinks my bicycle is stupid and worthy of ridicule. I think my bicycle is beautiful and I love riding it. My Bombahttps://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/8474652710/in/set-72157632769612752 Brewster Fong thinks it is wrong for Grant to insult carbon fiber, but he doesn't mind insulting my bike. I get it! Brewster Fong says whatever gets you riding!, but obviously doesn't really mean it. I really mean it. If you love your bike, that's awesome! Bill Lindsay El Cerrito, CA On Thursday, February 26, 2015 at 9:46:43 AM UTC-8, Brewster Fong wrote: On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 3:15:16 PM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 02/25/2015 05:39 PM, Brewster Fong wrote: Now, this is nothing but anedotal and just one example, but for my buddy, the right tool got him going! I don't care what it was made out of, but the supposedly stiff, uncomfortable aluminum frame road bike got him hooked and we love it! Some of those Alu Specialized road bikes have riding positions very similar to what GP was advocating back in 2002. I know quite a few people who have them and like them a lot. I think the Zerts inserts are pure placebo and the bikes would be better off with something wider than a 25mm tire, but for something you can just walk into a LBS and get for (by modern standards) relatively cheap money, there are lots worse bikes people could buy. Yes, it is not just Specialized, but all the biggies - Trek, C'dale and Giant to name a few - now offer more upright riding position for all their bikes. For example, Trek sells its carbon bikes with a H1 fit. That's the standard racing fit with low, low bars and super high saddles. BUT, they also sell the same frames/bikes with a H2 fit that has higher bars and a more upright riding position. In fact, this is how the new 10.25lb Trek Emondo, or whatever it is called, is being offered. Then again, if you're really going to spend $15k for a bike, it better be available in any position that you want! I believe the credit for this positioning goes to Grant and his famous raise dat stem article that came out in the late 90s?! Now, if we can only do something about G's fetish with double top tubes (on a 56cm frame!) and carbon bashing, we might have somethingGood Luck! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.commailto:rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.commailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- This email (and any attachments thereto) is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (and any attachments thereto) is strictly prohibited. If you receive this email in error please immediately notify me at (212) 735-3000 and permanently delete the original email (and any copy of any email) and any printout thereof. Further information about the firm, a list of the Partners and their professional qualifications will be provided upon request. == -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
On Thursday, February 26, 2015 at 11:13:15 AM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote: I own a 56cm Rivendell with a second top tube. Brewster Fong thinks my bicycle is stupid and worthy of ridicule. I think my bicycle is beautiful and I love riding it. My Bomba https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/8474652710/in/set-72157632769612752 Brewster Fong thinks it is wrong for Grant to insult carbon fiber, but he doesn't mind insulting my bike. I get it! Brewster Fong says whatever gets you riding!, but obviously doesn't really mean it. I really mean it. If you love your bike, You're right Bill. I should have clarified, I wasn't talking about the looks of double top tubes, but the *need* for it, especially on a 56cm bike? Maybe you can tell us how wonderful it rides compared to a single top tube. Personally, I never ridden a bike with two tts, but think it would stiffen the bike. Wrong? Hey, since my foot is in my mouth, maybe the double tt helps the bike plane! Further, the double tt is not limited to Rivendell, there's a guy at my work who rides a Sycip with 2 tt: http://sycip.com/project/cruiser-town-bikes/ Btw, I have a 18 year old carbon bike that many people find ugly! It's a Calfee with the gussets (webbing). There are many, many people out there who think its one of the ugliest bikes made. I agree, its not the prettiest, but man, it is so comfortable to ride! Oh yeah, and very durable too! Nevertheless, I still think its wrong for Grant to insult carbon. Hey, he makes a good product and should be proclaiming the virtues about steel and his bikes. After all, doesn't he have like a 3 year wait list for one of his customs? So go enjoy your bike! Since it doesn't rain here any more, that means more time to ride! Good Luck! that's awesome! Bill Lindsay El Cerrito, CA On Thursday, February 26, 2015 at 9:46:43 AM UTC-8, Brewster Fong wrote: On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 3:15:16 PM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 02/25/2015 05:39 PM, Brewster Fong wrote: Now, this is nothing but anedotal and just one example, but for my buddy, the right tool got him going! I don't care what it was made out of, but the supposedly stiff, uncomfortable aluminum frame road bike got him hooked and we love it! Some of those Alu Specialized road bikes have riding positions very similar to what GP was advocating back in 2002. I know quite a few people who have them and like them a lot. I think the Zerts inserts are pure placebo and the bikes would be better off with something wider than a 25mm tire, but for something you can just walk into a LBS and get for (by modern standards) relatively cheap money, there are lots worse bikes people could buy. Yes, it is not just Specialized, but all the biggies - Trek, C'dale and Giant to name a few - now offer more upright riding position for all their bikes. For example, Trek sells its carbon bikes with a H1 fit. That's the standard racing fit with low, low bars and super high saddles. BUT, they also sell the same frames/bikes with a H2 fit that has higher bars and a more upright riding position. In fact, this is how the new 10.25lb Trek Emondo, or whatever it is called, is being offered. Then again, if you're really going to spend $15k for a bike, it better be available in any position that you want! I believe the credit for this positioning goes to Grant and his famous raise dat stem article that came out in the late 90s?! Now, if we can only do something about G's fetish with double top tubes (on a 56cm frame!) and carbon bashing, we might have somethingGood Luck! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
Craig Calfee is one of the few guys I'd trust to sell me a crabon fiber bike appropriate for my weight and intended usage. On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 1:49 PM, Brewster Fong bfd...@gmail.com wrote: On Thursday, February 26, 2015 at 11:13:15 AM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote: I own a 56cm Rivendell with a second top tube. Brewster Fong thinks my bicycle is stupid and worthy of ridicule. I think my bicycle is beautiful and I love riding it. My Bomba https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/8474652710/in/set-72157632769612752 Brewster Fong thinks it is wrong for Grant to insult carbon fiber, but he doesn't mind insulting my bike. I get it! Brewster Fong says whatever gets you riding!, but obviously doesn't really mean it. I really mean it. If you love your bike, You're right Bill. I should have clarified, I wasn't talking about the looks of double top tubes, but the *need* for it, especially on a 56cm bike? Maybe you can tell us how wonderful it rides compared to a single top tube. Personally, I never ridden a bike with two tts, but think it would stiffen the bike. Wrong? Hey, since my foot is in my mouth, maybe the double tt helps the bike plane! Further, the double tt is not limited to Rivendell, there's a guy at my work who rides a Sycip with 2 tt: http://sycip.com/project/cruiser-town-bikes/ Btw, I have a 18 year old carbon bike that many people find ugly! It's a Calfee with the gussets (webbing). There are many, many people out there who think its one of the ugliest bikes made. I agree, its not the prettiest, but man, it is so comfortable to ride! Oh yeah, and very durable too! Nevertheless, I still think its wrong for Grant to insult carbon. Hey, he makes a good product and should be proclaiming the virtues about steel and his bikes. After all, doesn't he have like a 3 year wait list for one of his customs? So go enjoy your bike! Since it doesn't rain here any more, that means more time to ride! Good Luck! that's awesome! Bill Lindsay El Cerrito, CA On Thursday, February 26, 2015 at 9:46:43 AM UTC-8, Brewster Fong wrote: On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 3:15:16 PM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 02/25/2015 05:39 PM, Brewster Fong wrote: Now, this is nothing but anedotal and just one example, but for my buddy, the right tool got him going! I don't care what it was made out of, but the supposedly stiff, uncomfortable aluminum frame road bike got him hooked and we love it! Some of those Alu Specialized road bikes have riding positions very similar to what GP was advocating back in 2002. I know quite a few people who have them and like them a lot. I think the Zerts inserts are pure placebo and the bikes would be better off with something wider than a 25mm tire, but for something you can just walk into a LBS and get for (by modern standards) relatively cheap money, there are lots worse bikes people could buy. Yes, it is not just Specialized, but all the biggies - Trek, C'dale and Giant to name a few - now offer more upright riding position for all their bikes. For example, Trek sells its carbon bikes with a H1 fit. That's the standard racing fit with low, low bars and super high saddles. BUT, they also sell the same frames/bikes with a H2 fit that has higher bars and a more upright riding position. In fact, this is how the new 10.25lb Trek Emondo, or whatever it is called, is being offered. Then again, if you're really going to spend $15k for a bike, it better be available in any position that you want! I believe the credit for this positioning goes to Grant and his famous raise dat stem article that came out in the late 90s?! Now, if we can only do something about G's fetish with double top tubes (on a 56cm frame!) and carbon bashing, we might have somethingGood Luck! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Keep the metal side up and the rubber side down! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
Brewster My Bombadil is quite stiff. Bikes that plane are really flexible. My Bombadil does not plane. My Rawland Stag with 7/4/7 standard diameter top tube and downtube does plane. My Bombadil is very stout. I use it for camping and trail riding. At times, I am carrying most of the gear for a family of four. When my bike weighs over 90lbs, the extra few ounces of the second top tube does not bother me. Of my 10 bikes, my Bombadil is definitely the most stout. My Ibis Tandem is also very stiff, with radically oversized steel tubing, in addition to a long additional diagonal tube between the top tube and downtube. For what it's worth, I share your opinion that a 59cm Soma San Marcos, which is supposed to be a sporty road bike, maybe doesn't need a second top tube. But in general, when a bike doesn't appeal to me, I just don't buy it, and leave it at that. Maybe somebody else does love it and wants to buy it, and if that gets them riding, why not! For what it's worth 2, I'm kind of glad my 56cm Sam Hillborne doesn't have a second top tube, because in my application I don't need it. That bike is currently built up quite light, and I just put a pair of 700x38 extralight Barlow Pass tires on it. That bike should really sing on the road now! I'm excited. On Thursday, February 26, 2015 at 11:49:11 AM UTC-8, Brewster Fong wrote: On Thursday, February 26, 2015 at 11:13:15 AM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote: I own a 56cm Rivendell with a second top tube. Brewster Fong thinks my bicycle is stupid and worthy of ridicule. I think my bicycle is beautiful and I love riding it. My Bomba https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/8474652710/in/set-72157632769612752 Brewster Fong thinks it is wrong for Grant to insult carbon fiber, but he doesn't mind insulting my bike. I get it! Brewster Fong says whatever gets you riding!, but obviously doesn't really mean it. I really mean it. If you love your bike, You're right Bill. I should have clarified, I wasn't talking about the looks of double top tubes, but the *need* for it, especially on a 56cm bike? Maybe you can tell us how wonderful it rides compared to a single top tube. Personally, I never ridden a bike with two tts, but think it would stiffen the bike. Wrong? Hey, since my foot is in my mouth, maybe the double tt helps the bike plane! Further, the double tt is not limited to Rivendell, there's a guy at my work who rides a Sycip with 2 tt: http://sycip.com/project/cruiser-town-bikes/ Btw, I have a 18 year old carbon bike that many people find ugly! It's a Calfee with the gussets (webbing). There are many, many people out there who think its one of the ugliest bikes made. I agree, its not the prettiest, but man, it is so comfortable to ride! Oh yeah, and very durable too! Nevertheless, I still think its wrong for Grant to insult carbon. Hey, he makes a good product and should be proclaiming the virtues about steel and his bikes. After all, doesn't he have like a 3 year wait list for one of his customs? So go enjoy your bike! Since it doesn't rain here any more, that means more time to ride! Good Luck! that's awesome! Bill Lindsay El Cerrito, CA On Thursday, February 26, 2015 at 9:46:43 AM UTC-8, Brewster Fong wrote: On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 3:15:16 PM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 02/25/2015 05:39 PM, Brewster Fong wrote: Now, this is nothing but anedotal and just one example, but for my buddy, the right tool got him going! I don't care what it was made out of, but the supposedly stiff, uncomfortable aluminum frame road bike got him hooked and we love it! Some of those Alu Specialized road bikes have riding positions very similar to what GP was advocating back in 2002. I know quite a few people who have them and like them a lot. I think the Zerts inserts are pure placebo and the bikes would be better off with something wider than a 25mm tire, but for something you can just walk into a LBS and get for (by modern standards) relatively cheap money, there are lots worse bikes people could buy. Yes, it is not just Specialized, but all the biggies - Trek, C'dale and Giant to name a few - now offer more upright riding position for all their bikes. For example, Trek sells its carbon bikes with a H1 fit. That's the standard racing fit with low, low bars and super high saddles. BUT, they also sell the same frames/bikes with a H2 fit that has higher bars and a more upright riding position. In fact, this is how the new 10.25lb Trek Emondo, or whatever it is called, is being offered. Then again, if you're really going to spend $15k for a bike, it better be available in any position that you want! I believe the credit for this positioning goes to Grant and his famous raise dat stem article that came out in the late 90s?! Now, if we can only do something about G's
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
The only thing I dislike about my Atlantis is that it doesn't have a double top tube. On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 1:13 PM, Bill Lindsay tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: I own a 56cm Rivendell with a second top tube. Brewster Fong thinks my bicycle is stupid and worthy of ridicule. I think my bicycle is beautiful and I love riding it. My Bomba https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/8474652710/in/set-72157632769612752 Brewster Fong thinks it is wrong for Grant to insult carbon fiber, but he doesn't mind insulting my bike. I get it! Brewster Fong says whatever gets you riding!, but obviously doesn't really mean it. I really mean it. If you love your bike, that's awesome! Bill Lindsay El Cerrito, CA On Thursday, February 26, 2015 at 9:46:43 AM UTC-8, Brewster Fong wrote: On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 3:15:16 PM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 02/25/2015 05:39 PM, Brewster Fong wrote: Now, this is nothing but anedotal and just one example, but for my buddy, the right tool got him going! I don't care what it was made out of, but the supposedly stiff, uncomfortable aluminum frame road bike got him hooked and we love it! Some of those Alu Specialized road bikes have riding positions very similar to what GP was advocating back in 2002. I know quite a few people who have them and like them a lot. I think the Zerts inserts are pure placebo and the bikes would be better off with something wider than a 25mm tire, but for something you can just walk into a LBS and get for (by modern standards) relatively cheap money, there are lots worse bikes people could buy. Yes, it is not just Specialized, but all the biggies - Trek, C'dale and Giant to name a few - now offer more upright riding position for all their bikes. For example, Trek sells its carbon bikes with a H1 fit. That's the standard racing fit with low, low bars and super high saddles. BUT, they also sell the same frames/bikes with a H2 fit that has higher bars and a more upright riding position. In fact, this is how the new 10.25lb Trek Emondo, or whatever it is called, is being offered. Then again, if you're really going to spend $15k for a bike, it better be available in any position that you want! I believe the credit for this positioning goes to Grant and his famous raise dat stem article that came out in the late 90s?! Now, if we can only do something about G's fetish with double top tubes (on a 56cm frame!) and carbon bashing, we might have somethingGood Luck! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/F-3pQcXcdIw/unsubscribe . To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
I own a 56cm Rivendell with a second top tube. Brewster Fong thinks my bicycle is stupid and worthy of ridicule. I think my bicycle is beautiful and I love riding it. My Bomba https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/8474652710/in/set-72157632769612752 Brewster Fong thinks it is wrong for Grant to insult carbon fiber, but he doesn't mind insulting my bike. I get it! Brewster Fong says whatever gets you riding!, but obviously doesn't really mean it. I really mean it. If you love your bike, that's awesome! Bill Lindsay El Cerrito, CA On Thursday, February 26, 2015 at 9:46:43 AM UTC-8, Brewster Fong wrote: On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 3:15:16 PM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 02/25/2015 05:39 PM, Brewster Fong wrote: Now, this is nothing but anedotal and just one example, but for my buddy, the right tool got him going! I don't care what it was made out of, but the supposedly stiff, uncomfortable aluminum frame road bike got him hooked and we love it! Some of those Alu Specialized road bikes have riding positions very similar to what GP was advocating back in 2002. I know quite a few people who have them and like them a lot. I think the Zerts inserts are pure placebo and the bikes would be better off with something wider than a 25mm tire, but for something you can just walk into a LBS and get for (by modern standards) relatively cheap money, there are lots worse bikes people could buy. Yes, it is not just Specialized, but all the biggies - Trek, C'dale and Giant to name a few - now offer more upright riding position for all their bikes. For example, Trek sells its carbon bikes with a H1 fit. That's the standard racing fit with low, low bars and super high saddles. BUT, they also sell the same frames/bikes with a H2 fit that has higher bars and a more upright riding position. In fact, this is how the new 10.25lb Trek Emondo, or whatever it is called, is being offered. Then again, if you're really going to spend $15k for a bike, it better be available in any position that you want! I believe the credit for this positioning goes to Grant and his famous raise dat stem article that came out in the late 90s?! Now, if we can only do something about G's fetish with double top tubes (on a 56cm frame!) and carbon bashing, we might have somethingGood Luck! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
On 02/26/2015 03:10 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote: Brewster My Bombadil is quite stiff. Bikes that plane are really flexible. My Bombadil does not plane. My Rawland Stag with 7/4/7 standard diameter top tube and downtube does plane. My Bombadil is very stout. I use it for camping and trail riding. At times, I am carrying most of the gear for a family of four. When my bike weighs over 90lbs, the extra few ounces of the second top tube does not bother me. When your bike weighs 90 pounds, a 2nd top tube may actually be doing you some good! I'm happy to have a diagonal tube on a tandem, too. Jan notwithstanding, I had a French tandem once with twin external laterals. They were decorative and made a nice place to cradle a water bottle, but provided no lateral stiffness whatsoever. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
the second top tube is also a terriffic handle for portaging it up the stairs to BART On Thursday, February 26, 2015 at 12:49:45 PM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 02/26/2015 03:10 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote: Brewster My Bombadil is quite stiff. Bikes that plane are really flexible. My Bombadil does not plane. My Rawland Stag with 7/4/7 standard diameter top tube and downtube does plane. My Bombadil is very stout. I use it for camping and trail riding. At times, I am carrying most of the gear for a family of four. When my bike weighs over 90lbs, the extra few ounces of the second top tube does not bother me. When your bike weighs 90 pounds, a 2nd top tube may actually be doing you some good! I'm happy to have a diagonal tube on a tandem, too. Jan notwithstanding, I had a French tandem once with twin external laterals. They were decorative and made a nice place to cradle a water bottle, but provided no lateral stiffness whatsoever. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
On 02/26/2015 04:10 AM, Andrew Marchant-Shapiro wrote: Grant is a marketeer and an interesting person. To some extent, he /is/ trying to get people to drink his Kool-Aid because that's his market space. I well recall when he was selling an older Campy front derailer. It had an oversized clamp, so he sold it with a plastic sleeve that you used over the seat tube to correctly fit it. It was the best thing ever, and I've seen him do that repeatedly with old stock items. So to some extent, yeah, he's just trying to move stock. I don't recall this one, but if it was the Racing T front derailleur then /Hell yes/, it was the best thing ever for 110/74 compact triples and the fact that you needed a shim to get it to fit the seat tube is just the price of doing business. I still marvel at this: why on earth would Campagnolo, a company with a proven track record of no interest or expertise with touring gearing produce what is by far the best front derailleur for such gearing I've ever seen? So, if it was that one, it wasn't just trying to move stock at all. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
Tire labels not lined up with the valve stems!??!?? DISAPPROVE On Thursday, February 26, 2015 at 4:20:14 PM UTC-8, Pudge wrote: You mean like this? https://www.flickr.com/photos/37542512@N04/8566366471/in/set-72157624552118742 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
How about the Ibex wool jersey, Patrick? They are very, very light, ss and rear pockets. I've yet to have a knit jersey that I could wear two rides in a row. I sweat like crazy and my wool stuff doesn't smell. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
RE: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
Perfect Geir! Just wear whatever works for the ride you will be doing. Exercise clothes or racing kit are fine if that is what you are doing. Nothing wrong with bike clothes for a long and/or hard ride. But bike shoes and jerseys in the grocery store are just…well…whatever. Again, I maintain that MANY bicyclists simply can’t imagine going on a “regular ride” in “regular clothes”. They miss out on many good rides because they simply can’t ride without their racing kit. In the time spent getting dressed, I could have already been at the grocery store. The result is that the “racing kit crowd” never ride on short errand rides, because it is just too much trouble to get into their uniform. Doug From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Geir Bentzen Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 2:24 PM To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Subject: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor I believe I have read/skimmed all the comments by now and as a European who has emigrated to the U.S. what strikes me as odd is the feeling I get that riding a bike is something special. Something you need a club for, extra things to buy, something a bit exotic. I believe the core of what Grant says is that it is not something special. It as normal as driving or walking down the street or taking the bus, and in fact those things can often be combined. My impression is that he promotes using the bike as your get around daily tool as much as you can, and that may mean to wear whatever suits the combination of your tasks, not only your bike riding. This is how I experienced life in Europe. But, if you go out for a ride that has no other tasks to it than just riding then I believe you should feel free to dress for the physical exercise involved. In my own case that means bike shorts made of lycra and other more or less bike specific attire as needed for the weather. I just don't see the conflict here. I have several bikes, but I notice that the one I grab all the time is my Hunqapillar, even though I own an excellent German city bike for going to the grocery store. So the Hunq does it all, but I may not wear the same clothes all the time. When younger I would often wear running shoes while walking around town in jeans, but I would never go for a long run wearing those jeans even though I still wore the same shoes. Why not adopt the same practical and non-ideological attitude? On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 3:08:44 PM UTC-6, Jon in the foothills of Central Colorado wrote: In the new Adventure Cyclist Mag PETERSEN RESPONDS TO READER LETTER ‘UNRACING? UNCOOL’ Racing attitudes, bikes, clothing, and diets have become the norm and normal, and are so pervasive that many adult cyclists, maybe even some you know, accept the racing standards as the only legitimate way to be a serious adult cyclist. What I tried to do in the book Just Ride — and what we do here at Rivendell Bicycle Works — is offer an alternative, a model to other adult cyclists that there is another way. This letter is not an ad for either. I’m simply saying where I come from and what I do. We are the mice trying to squeak above the roar at the base of the waterfall. It is no time to be wishywashy, but I try hard to not offend. Inevitably, a declarative position on any matter is bound to raise a few hackles with those who have a different position, but it still hurts to be judged by a stranger who would probably like me, and whom I’d surely like, in person. A good number of our customers are middle-aged and older folks trying to fit in some activity as they age. They often have the means, and they’re influenced by what they read and see that promotes racers as a good model — and that’s something I don’t agree with. They shop as innocents and come out of it dressed like racers and riding bikes that are not only inappropriate for the kind of riding they do, but are, on top of that and more egregiously, not comfortable. We undo that. You may see ego or evil behind it, but I don’t feel either of those. I see racing and racers as fringe and am simply trying to legitimize an alternative point of view, one that I feel strongly about. I’m trying — certainly not singlehandedly — to make people feel good about riding without dressing in pro-team gear and copying so many other affectations of the racer, and that is what Unracing and Just Ride and Rivendell Bicycle Works is all about. We’re nobody’s enemy. Some of my best friends pedal cliplessly and in spandex. It’s cool. Grant Petersen Walnut Creek, California -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/F-3pQcXcdIw/unsubscribe. To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
The best comment on the subject yet On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Geir Bentzen geirbent...@gmail.com wrote: I believe I have read/skimmed all the comments by now and as a European who has emigrated to the U.S. what strikes me as odd is the feeling I get that riding a bike is something special. Something you need a club for, extra things to buy, something a bit exotic. I believe the core of what Grant says is that it is not something special. It as normal as driving or walking down the street or taking the bus, and in fact those things can often be combined. My impression is that he promotes using the bike as your get around daily tool as much as you can, and that may mean to wear whatever suits the combination of your tasks, not only your bike riding. This is how I experienced life in Europe. But, if you go out for a ride that has no other tasks to it than just riding then I believe you should feel free to dress for the physical exercise involved. In my own case that means bike shorts made of lycra and other more or less bike specific attire as needed for the weather. I just don't see the conflict here. I have several bikes, but I notice that the one I grab all the time is my Hunqapillar, even though I own an excellent German city bike for going to the grocery store. So the Hunq does it all, but I may not wear the same clothes all the time. When younger I would often wear running shoes while walking around town in jeans, but I would never go for a long run wearing those jeans even though I still wore the same shoes. Why not adopt the same practical and non-ideological attitude? On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 3:08:44 PM UTC-6, Jon in the foothills of Central Colorado wrote: In the new Adventure Cyclist Mag PETERSEN RESPONDS TO READER LETTER ‘UNRACING? UNCOOL’ Racing attitudes, bikes, clothing, and diets have become the norm and normal, and are so pervasive that many adult cyclists, maybe even some you know, accept the racing standards as the only legitimate way to be a serious adult cyclist. What I tried to do in the book *Just Ride *— and what we do here at Rivendell Bicycle Works — is offer an alternative, a model to other adult cyclists that there is another way. This letter is not an ad for either. I’m simply saying where I come from and what I do. We are the mice trying to squeak above the roar at the base of the waterfall. It is no time to be wishywashy, but I try hard to not offend. Inevitably, a declarative position on any matter is bound to raise a few hackles with those who have a different position, but it still hurts to be judged by a stranger who would probably like me, and whom I’d surely like, in person. A good number of our customers are middle-aged and older folks trying to fit in some activity as they age. They often have the means, and they’re influenced by what they read and see that promotes racers as a good model — and that’s something I don’t agree with. They shop as innocents and come out of it dressed like racers and riding bikes that are not only inappropriate for the kind of riding they do, but are, on top of that and more egregiously, not comfortable. We undo that. You may see ego or evil behind it, but I don’t feel either of those. I see racing and racers as fringe and am simply trying to legitimize an alternative point of view, one that I feel strongly about. I’m trying — certainly not singlehandedly — to make people feel good about riding without dressing in pro-team gear and copying so many other affectations of the racer, and that is what Unracing and *Just Ride *and Rivendell Bicycle Works is all about. We’re nobody’s enemy. Some of my best friends pedal cliplessly and in spandex. It’s cool. Grant Petersen Walnut Creek, California -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten * *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu *Kinei hos eromenon. It moves as the being-loved. *Aristotle *The Love that moves the Sun and all the other stars. *Dante -- You received this message because
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
It's odd, no spandex hamsters riding now. I guess riding across the minus whatever, snow and ice covered darkness on studded tires with fenders generator hubs and lights isn't their magazine ad. Andy Cheatham Pittsburgh On Thursday, February 26, 2015 at 9:54:30 AM UTC-5, Marc Irwin wrote: This reminds me of the first charity ride I did on my Hillborne (with Bosco Bars). A rider came up beside me, asked about the bike, then asked why anybody would want a bike like that? I said, I can take this to the grocery store, ride a metric century comfortably, or take a trip over the Himalayas. What can you do with that? (pointing to his crabon crotch rocket). He just shook his head and rode away. I passed he and his crew of spandex hamsters after the second rest stop. They tend to start loosing it at 30 miles. One of these days I'm going to do one in a pair of cutoffs (diamond gusset), a nascar t shirt and Cubs batting helmet just for fun. I might even roll a pack of Winstons up in my sleeve for good measure. Marc On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 12:56:19 PM UTC-5, Anne Paulson wrote: On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 5:38 AM, Addison Wilhite addison...@gmail.com wrote: I kind of feel like the revolution is over and we won. Anymore, while I can certainly find the carbon roadie types, they aren't living in the niche. Just like the extreme downhillers or whatever they are called. I just don't see a lot of riders so focused on 25mm tires that don't also accept the benefits of a fatter tire Not true where I am in Silicon Valley . If I show up at the start of one of my (touring) club's rides, a ride meant for people riding a moderate pace, and I see twenty other riders, there will be one steel bike, and I'll be riding it. There will be no bikes that take tires wider than 28 mm, other than my Roadeo. Typically riders have 25 mm tires pumped up rock hard. Everyone will have lycra shorts including me (haven't found anything else that works for me) and everyone else will be wearing roadie jerseys with sublimated graphics. There's one club ride I go on, an easy-paced ride that I do for camaraderie. Most of the riders are like me, over 50, in a lot of cases well over 50. But there is one young woman who shows up on an old Stumpjumper with flat bars, wearing street clothes. Although she has no trouble keeping up, and she has a fine bike, almost every time she has shown up at a ride I'm on someone will explain to her that her bike is wrong and she needs a different one. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
Bazinga! On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 7:25 PM, Bill Lindsay tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: Tire labels not lined up with the valve stems!??!?? DISAPPROVE On Thursday, February 26, 2015 at 4:20:14 PM UTC-8, Pudge wrote: You mean like this? https://www.flickr.com/photos/ 37542512@N04/8566366471/in/set-72157624552118742 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
now that looks like a hella lota fun. Although I'd probably get the new Salsa Warbird... carbon bike that fits 45mm tires. Seems like most of my fun rides these days are like that ( a bit slower and drier though) and there should be beer at the end too! ~mike Carlsbad Ca. On Thursday, February 26, 2015 at 2:55:23 PM UTC-8, Mark Reimer wrote: Oh I wouldn't be so sure about that... http://theradavist.com/2015/02/santa-cruz-stigmata-cross-video/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
That snow looks to be about 28˚F or warmer. That's only minus whatever in C. Grin. With abandon, Patrick On Thursday, February 26, 2015 at 3:55:23 PM UTC-7, Mark Reimer wrote: Oh I wouldn't be so sure about that... http://theradavist.com/2015/02/santa-cruz-stigmata-cross-video/ On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 4:53 PM, ascpgh asc...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: It's odd, no spandex hamsters riding now. I guess riding across the minus whatever, snow and ice covered darkness on studded tires with fenders generator hubs and lights isn't their magazine ad. Andy Cheatham Pittsburgh On Thursday, February 26, 2015 at 9:54:30 AM UTC-5, Marc Irwin wrote: This reminds me of the first charity ride I did on my Hillborne (with Bosco Bars). A rider came up beside me, asked about the bike, then asked why anybody would want a bike like that? I said, I can take this to the grocery store, ride a metric century comfortably, or take a trip over the Himalayas. What can you do with that? (pointing to his crabon crotch rocket). He just shook his head and rode away. I passed he and his crew of spandex hamsters after the second rest stop. They tend to start loosing it at 30 miles. One of these days I'm going to do one in a pair of cutoffs (diamond gusset), a nascar t shirt and Cubs batting helmet just for fun. I might even roll a pack of Winstons up in my sleeve for good measure. Marc On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 12:56:19 PM UTC-5, Anne Paulson wrote: On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 5:38 AM, Addison Wilhite addison...@gmail.com wrote: I kind of feel like the revolution is over and we won. Anymore, while I can certainly find the carbon roadie types, they aren't living in the niche. Just like the extreme downhillers or whatever they are called. I just don't see a lot of riders so focused on 25mm tires that don't also accept the benefits of a fatter tire Not true where I am in Silicon Valley . If I show up at the start of one of my (touring) club's rides, a ride meant for people riding a moderate pace, and I see twenty other riders, there will be one steel bike, and I'll be riding it. There will be no bikes that take tires wider than 28 mm, other than my Roadeo. Typically riders have 25 mm tires pumped up rock hard. Everyone will have lycra shorts including me (haven't found anything else that works for me) and everyone else will be wearing roadie jerseys with sublimated graphics. There's one club ride I go on, an easy-paced ride that I do for camaraderie. Most of the riders are like me, over 50, in a lot of cases well over 50. But there is one young woman who shows up on an old Stumpjumper with flat bars, wearing street clothes. Although she has no trouble keeping up, and she has a fine bike, almost every time she has shown up at a ride I'm on someone will explain to her that her bike is wrong and she needs a different one. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/F-3pQcXcdIw/unsubscribe . To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com javascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
Oh, I know they're babies. That video didn't fool me. On Feb 26, 2015, at 5:26 PM, Deacon Patrick lamontg...@mac.com wrote: That snow looks to be about 28˚F or warmer. That's only minus whatever in C. Grin. With abandon, Patrick On Thursday, February 26, 2015 at 3:55:23 PM UTC-7, Mark Reimer wrote: Oh I wouldn't be so sure about that... http://theradavist.com/2015/02/santa-cruz-stigmata-cross-video/ On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 4:53 PM, ascpgh asc...@gmail.com wrote: It's odd, no spandex hamsters riding now. I guess riding across the minus whatever, snow and ice covered darkness on studded tires with fenders generator hubs and lights isn't their magazine ad. Andy Cheatham Pittsburgh On Thursday, February 26, 2015 at 9:54:30 AM UTC-5, Marc Irwin wrote: This reminds me of the first charity ride I did on my Hillborne (with Bosco Bars). A rider came up beside me, asked about the bike, then asked why anybody would want a bike like that? I said, I can take this to the grocery store, ride a metric century comfortably, or take a trip over the Himalayas. What can you do with that? (pointing to his crabon crotch rocket). He just shook his head and rode away. I passed he and his crew of spandex hamsters after the second rest stop. They tend to start loosing it at 30 miles. One of these days I'm going to do one in a pair of cutoffs (diamond gusset), a nascar t shirt and Cubs batting helmet just for fun. I might even roll a pack of Winstons up in my sleeve for good measure. Marc On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 12:56:19 PM UTC-5, Anne Paulson wrote: On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 5:38 AM, Addison Wilhite addison...@gmail.com wrote: I kind of feel like the revolution is over and we won. Anymore, while I can certainly find the carbon roadie types, they aren't living in the niche. Just like the extreme downhillers or whatever they are called. I just don't see a lot of riders so focused on 25mm tires that don't also accept the benefits of a fatter tire Not true where I am in Silicon Valley . If I show up at the start of one of my (touring) club's rides, a ride meant for people riding a moderate pace, and I see twenty other riders, there will be one steel bike, and I'll be riding it. There will be no bikes that take tires wider than 28 mm, other than my Roadeo. Typically riders have 25 mm tires pumped up rock hard. Everyone will have lycra shorts including me (haven't found anything else that works for me) and everyone else will be wearing roadie jerseys with sublimated graphics. There's one club ride I go on, an easy-paced ride that I do for camaraderie. Most of the riders are like me, over 50, in a lot of cases well over 50. But there is one young woman who shows up on an old Stumpjumper with flat bars, wearing street clothes. Although she has no trouble keeping up, and she has a fine bike, almost every time she has shown up at a ride I'm on someone will explain to her that her bike is wrong and she needs a different one. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/F-3pQcXcdIw/unsubscribe. To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/F-3pQcXcdIw/unsubscribe. To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
On 02/26/2015 08:06 PM, Doug Williams wrote: Perfect Geir! Just wear whatever works for the ride you will be doing. Exercise clothes or racing kit are fine if that is what you are doing. Nothing wrong with bike clothes for a long and/or hard ride. But bike shoes and jerseys in the grocery store are just…well…whatever. Again, I maintain that MANY bicyclists simply can’t imagine going on a “regular ride” in “regular clothes”. They miss out on many good rides because they simply can’t ride without their racing kit. In the time spent getting dressed, I could have already been at the grocery store. The result is that the “racing kit crowd” never ride on short errand rides, because it is just too much trouble to get into their uniform. It's a right pain walking around in a store shopping wearing cycling shoes. Also, odds are good a bike you'd use on a regular ride couldn't carry groceries anyway. On top of that, what are the chances the bike would be stolen? Hardly worth taking the risk. It's a lot more than just too much trouble to get into the uniform. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
Sorry, Mark, we here in the northeast US call that a dusting. I'm afraid that doesn't compare at all to what we've been getting over here. This is how cyclists were rolling in the town next to mine the past couple weeks. No spandex here. http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/2015-02/23/8/enhanced/webdr11/enhanced-4191-1424699631-17.jpg http://cdnph.upi.com/sh/th/i/UPI-3761424787153/2015/14247880704634/Vandals-collapse-40-foot-snow-tunnel-dug-by-Mass-cyclists.jpg Anton not wearing spandex in this 101.7 inches of snowfall Tutter in Somerville, MA On Thursday, February 26, 2015 at 5:55:23 PM UTC-5, Mark Reimer wrote: Oh I wouldn't be so sure about that... http://theradavist.com/2015/02/santa-cruz-stigmata-cross-video/ On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 4:53 PM, ascpgh asc...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: It's odd, no spandex hamsters riding now. I guess riding across the minus whatever, snow and ice covered darkness on studded tires with fenders generator hubs and lights isn't their magazine ad. Andy Cheatham Pittsburgh On Thursday, February 26, 2015 at 9:54:30 AM UTC-5, Marc Irwin wrote: This reminds me of the first charity ride I did on my Hillborne (with Bosco Bars). A rider came up beside me, asked about the bike, then asked why anybody would want a bike like that? I said, I can take this to the grocery store, ride a metric century comfortably, or take a trip over the Himalayas. What can you do with that? (pointing to his crabon crotch rocket). He just shook his head and rode away. I passed he and his crew of spandex hamsters after the second rest stop. They tend to start loosing it at 30 miles. One of these days I'm going to do one in a pair of cutoffs (diamond gusset), a nascar t shirt and Cubs batting helmet just for fun. I might even roll a pack of Winstons up in my sleeve for good measure. Marc On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 12:56:19 PM UTC-5, Anne Paulson wrote: On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 5:38 AM, Addison Wilhite addison...@gmail.com wrote: I kind of feel like the revolution is over and we won. Anymore, while I can certainly find the carbon roadie types, they aren't living in the niche. Just like the extreme downhillers or whatever they are called. I just don't see a lot of riders so focused on 25mm tires that don't also accept the benefits of a fatter tire Not true where I am in Silicon Valley . If I show up at the start of one of my (touring) club's rides, a ride meant for people riding a moderate pace, and I see twenty other riders, there will be one steel bike, and I'll be riding it. There will be no bikes that take tires wider than 28 mm, other than my Roadeo. Typically riders have 25 mm tires pumped up rock hard. Everyone will have lycra shorts including me (haven't found anything else that works for me) and everyone else will be wearing roadie jerseys with sublimated graphics. There's one club ride I go on, an easy-paced ride that I do for camaraderie. Most of the riders are like me, over 50, in a lot of cases well over 50. But there is one young woman who shows up on an old Stumpjumper with flat bars, wearing street clothes. Although she has no trouble keeping up, and she has a fine bike, almost every time she has shown up at a ride I'm on someone will explain to her that her bike is wrong and she needs a different one. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/F-3pQcXcdIw/unsubscribe . To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com javascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
On 02/26/2015 09:40 PM, Patrick Moore wrote: You must have walked in SPDs? And my Ram and '03 custom carry groceries just fine, while being fun to ride unladen. As for theft, I usually wheel the bike through the aisles in place of a shopping cart. I didn't say it couldn't be done, obviously it can be, but that's pretty much the interior dialog. I have a bike I can ride in regular street clothes and shoes that I use for errands. Lots of people bring bikes to the grocery store, but I have never yet even once in my entire life seen anyone bring one into the store. at least 3/4 of my riding is turning shopping and errand trips into cycling detours on such bikes. At 12 to 20 miles each, rt, it's worth my while to change into cycling kit -- such as it is. Certainly SPDs. On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 7:36 PM, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com mailto:palin...@his.com wrote: It's a right pain walking around in a store shopping wearing cycling shoes. Also, odds are good a bike you'd use on a regular ride couldn't carry groceries anyway. On top of that, what are the chances the bike would be stolen? Hardly worth taking the risk. It's a lot more than just too much trouble to get into the uniform. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
You must have walked in SPDs? And my Ram and '03 custom carry groceries just fine, while being fun to ride unladen. As for theft, I usually wheel the bike through the aisles in place of a shopping cart. at least 3/4 of my riding is turning shopping and errand trips into cycling detours on such bikes. At 12 to 20 miles each, rt, it's worth my while to change into cycling kit -- such as it is. Certainly SPDs. On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 7:36 PM, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: It's a right pain walking around in a store shopping wearing cycling shoes. Also, odds are good a bike you'd use on a regular ride couldn't carry groceries anyway. On top of that, what are the chances the bike would be stolen? Hardly worth taking the risk. It's a lot more than just too much trouble to get into the uniform. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten * *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu *Kinei hos eromenon. It moves as the being-loved. *Aristotle *The Love that moves the Sun and all the other stars. *Dante -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
100! On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 5:06 PM, Doug Williams salguod3791willi...@gmail.com wrote: Perfect Geir! Just wear whatever works for the ride you will be doing. Exercise clothes or racing kit are fine if that is what you are doing. Nothing wrong with bike clothes for a long and/or hard ride. But bike shoes and jerseys in the grocery store are just...well...whatever. Again, I maintain that MANY bicyclists simply can't imagine going on a regular ride in regular clothes. They miss out on many good rides because they simply can't ride without their racing kit. In the time spent getting dressed, I could have already been at the grocery store. The result is that the racing kit crowd never ride on short errand rides, because it is just too much trouble to get into their uniform. Doug *From:* rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Geir Bentzen *Sent:* Thursday, February 26, 2015 2:24 PM *To:* rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor I believe I have read/skimmed all the comments by now and as a European who has emigrated to the U.S. what strikes me as odd is the feeling I get that riding a bike is something special. Something you need a club for, extra things to buy, something a bit exotic. I believe the core of what Grant says is that it is not something special. It as normal as driving or walking down the street or taking the bus, and in fact those things can often be combined. My impression is that he promotes using the bike as your get around daily tool as much as you can, and that may mean to wear whatever suits the combination of your tasks, not only your bike riding. This is how I experienced life in Europe. But, if you go out for a ride that has no other tasks to it than just riding then I believe you should feel free to dress for the physical exercise involved. In my own case that means bike shorts made of lycra and other more or less bike specific attire as needed for the weather. I just don't see the conflict here. I have several bikes, but I notice that the one I grab all the time is my Hunqapillar, even though I own an excellent German city bike for going to the grocery store. So the Hunq does it all, but I may not wear the same clothes all the time. When younger I would often wear running shoes while walking around town in jeans, but I would never go for a long run wearing those jeans even though I still wore the same shoes. Why not adopt the same practical and non-ideological attitude? On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 3:08:44 PM UTC-6, Jon in the foothills of Central Colorado wrote: In the new Adventure Cyclist Mag PETERSEN RESPONDS TO READER LETTER 'UNRACING? UNCOOL' Racing attitudes, bikes, clothing, and diets have become the norm and normal, and are so pervasive that many adult cyclists, maybe even some you know, accept the racing standards as the only legitimate way to be a serious adult cyclist. What I tried to do in the book *Just Ride *-- and what we do here at Rivendell Bicycle Works -- is offer an alternative, a model to other adult cyclists that there is another way. This letter is not an ad for either. I'm simply saying where I come from and what I do. We are the mice trying to squeak above the roar at the base of the waterfall. It is no time to be wishywashy, but I try hard to not offend. Inevitably, a declarative position on any matter is bound to raise a few hackles with those who have a different position, but it still hurts to be judged by a stranger who would probably like me, and whom I'd surely like, in person. A good number of our customers are middle-aged and older folks trying to fit in some activity as they age. They often have the means, and they're influenced by what they read and see that promotes racers as a good model -- and that's something I don't agree with. They shop as innocents and come out of it dressed like racers and riding bikes that are not only inappropriate for the kind of riding they do, but are, on top of that and more egregiously, not comfortable. We undo that. You may see ego or evil behind it, but I don't feel either of those. I see racing and racers as fringe and am simply trying to legitimize an alternative point of view, one that I feel strongly about. I'm trying -- certainly not singlehandedly -- to make people feel good about riding without dressing in pro-team gear and copying so many other affectations of the racer, and that is what Unracing and *Just Ride *and Rivendell Bicycle Works is all about. We're nobody's enemy. Some of my best friends pedal cliplessly and in spandex. It's cool. Grant Petersen Walnut Creek, California -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
I kind of feel like the revolution is over and we won. Anymore, while I can certainly find the carbon roadie types, they aren't living in the niche. Just like the extreme downhillers or whatever they are called. I just don't see a lot of riders so focused on 25mm tires that don't also accept the benefits of a fatter tire. Maybe it's the rise of 'cross. Likewise, walking into a bike shop anymore I can easily find high performance bikes that take a wider tire and plenty of steel. If you look at most magazines in the bike world these days they are dominated by stories of urban and adventure touring types of biking and all the products they are pushing to go along with those kinds of activities. That's a whole lot of crossover with the Riv world. Cheers, Addison Wilhite, M.A. Academy of Arts, Careers and Technology http://www.washoeschools.net/aact *“Blazing the Trail to College and Career Success”* Educator: Professional Portfolio http://addisonwilhite.blogspot.com/ Blogger: Reno Rambler http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com/ Bicycle Advocate: Regional Transportation Commission, Bicycle Pedestrian Advisory Committee http://www.rtcwashoe.com/public-transportation-22-124.html On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 12:18 AM, Goshen Peter uscpeter11...@gmail.com wrote: Every runner knows those Damn walkers are just in the way [image: ] Must be winter. On Feb 25, 2015 2:50 AM, 'pb' via RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com wrote: On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 8:18:22 PM UTC-8, Doug Williams wrote: pb, Hmmm...I'm glad that you found a few good LBS's, No, I called three, and got three answers. I made three calls. I got three answers. I chose the three because they were representative of three major corporate entities. but have you read a mainstream bicycle magazine recently? I see all sorts of articles and advertisements glorifying racing and bikes so lightweight that they are completely impractical for normal use. I see VERY few articles and advertisements featuring practical and reliable bikes or articles that espouse using a bike for transportation rather than for only racing or exercise. Transportation? What's that? A fun ride that isn't a race? What's that? Do you read Vogue to find articles on dungarees or Harris tweed? Do you read GQ to find out what to wear when gardening? I don't even know what the mainstream bicycle magazines are any more. I do know that Bicycling (does it still exist?) didn't offer a new article, or cover, in twenty years. They just recycled the old ones on a regular basis (Climb better in 30 days! Get faster in 30 days! Prepare for a century in 30 days! Get leaner in 30 days!). I hope you don't pay to read it. Doug, are you confusing magazines with actual journalism? Magazines exist to make money, and they'll print whatever they think will sell copies. Apparently what you think is interesting isn't what they think will sell copies. Does that prove something about your local bicycle shop, or does it just indicate that maybe you're looking at the wrong magazine, which you knew before you picked it up. I don't think that Grant just invented this issue. The phenomena is quite real. Grant's message resonates with many because the racing phenomena IS real. No, Grant didn't invent the issue, but he has fed the flames, and kept it alive, and he has perpetuated a stereotype, and he has offended folks along the way. For no reason. And I assure you that it has affected his bottom line by marginalizing him. Canonize him for that if you wish. And yes, I do (quite often) encounter smug racers in their spandex uniforms who disparage practical cyclists. They are mostly wannabe's and not real racers, of course. But they are numerous and annoying just the same. Oh come on. There are rude and irritating members of every population group. Do they represent their groups as a whole? See comments about stereotyping. Also, people tend to see what they are looking for. If you are looking for snotty racers, you'll probably find them. Ironically, typing that reminds me of riding into my neighborhood one night from work. My commute ride is about 40 quite hilly miles each way, a solid 2.5 hours, especially after a day of work, and I had ridden both ways that day, leaving the house in the morning at 5:30 (no, I do not do that commute both ways very often). I was on a carbon Look, in lycra, and I had my clothes and shoes and files and a laptop in my Timbuktu. I was riding very tiredly into my development, done for the day, when a fellow in jeans and a plaid shirt went spinning past me on a Surly. He was sitting upright, and he ignored me as he spun past with a grin. I guess he kicked my ass. If it had been me passing him, I would have said hello, because I try to be friendly to other cyclists. Here is my suggestion to you and to Grant: Promote and enjoy the kind of cycling and bicycles that
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
Every day, there are frightful sights in lycra on every bike path On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 2:18:24 AM UTC-6, Peter M wrote: Every runner knows those Damn walkers are just in the way Must be winter. On Feb 25, 2015 2:50 AM, 'pb' via RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com javascript: wrote: On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 8:18:22 PM UTC-8, Doug Williams wrote: pb, Hmmm...I'm glad that you found a few good LBS's, No, I called three, and got three answers. I made three calls. I got three answers. I chose the three because they were representative of three major corporate entities. but have you read a mainstream bicycle magazine recently? I see all sorts of articles and advertisements glorifying racing and bikes so lightweight that they are completely impractical for normal use. I see VERY few articles and advertisements featuring practical and reliable bikes or articles that espouse using a bike for transportation rather than for only racing or exercise. Transportation? What's that? A fun ride that isn't a race? What's that? Do you read Vogue to find articles on dungarees or Harris tweed? Do you read GQ to find out what to wear when gardening? I don't even know what the mainstream bicycle magazines are any more. I do know that Bicycling (does it still exist?) didn't offer a new article, or cover, in twenty years. They just recycled the old ones on a regular basis (Climb better in 30 days! Get faster in 30 days! Prepare for a century in 30 days! Get leaner in 30 days!). I hope you don't pay to read it. Doug, are you confusing magazines with actual journalism? Magazines exist to make money, and they'll print whatever they think will sell copies. Apparently what you think is interesting isn't what they think will sell copies. Does that prove something about your local bicycle shop, or does it just indicate that maybe you're looking at the wrong magazine, which you knew before you picked it up. I don't think that Grant just invented this issue. The phenomena is quite real. Grant's message resonates with many because the racing phenomena IS real. No, Grant didn't invent the issue, but he has fed the flames, and kept it alive, and he has perpetuated a stereotype, and he has offended folks along the way. For no reason. And I assure you that it has affected his bottom line by marginalizing him. Canonize him for that if you wish. And yes, I do (quite often) encounter smug racers in their spandex uniforms who disparage practical cyclists. They are mostly wannabe's and not real racers, of course. But they are numerous and annoying just the same. Oh come on. There are rude and irritating members of every population group. Do they represent their groups as a whole? See comments about stereotyping. Also, people tend to see what they are looking for. If you are looking for snotty racers, you'll probably find them. Ironically, typing that reminds me of riding into my neighborhood one night from work. My commute ride is about 40 quite hilly miles each way, a solid 2.5 hours, especially after a day of work, and I had ridden both ways that day, leaving the house in the morning at 5:30 (no, I do not do that commute both ways very often). I was on a carbon Look, in lycra, and I had my clothes and shoes and files and a laptop in my Timbuktu. I was riding very tiredly into my development, done for the day, when a fellow in jeans and a plaid shirt went spinning past me on a Surly. He was sitting upright, and he ignored me as he spun past with a grin. I guess he kicked my ass. If it had been me passing him, I would have said hello, because I try to be friendly to other cyclists. Here is my suggestion to you and to Grant: Promote and enjoy the kind of cycling and bicycles that you like, and let those things stand on their own feet. If your LBS sucks and just wants to sell $15,000 Pinarellos and one-piece suits, go to another store, or mail order, but don't tell me that proves every LBS sucks, or that every customer of that LBS is an ass. Don't sneer at other cyclists along the way, or if you do, they may say things like Norma Steinberg said. There is sufficient rudeness and division in our world. Don't perpetuate it. Think about my comment about Ritchey and Fisher and Kelly not needing to belittle roadies to make mountain biking attractive. The opposite happened -- suddenly it was cool to have two bikes! Grant's ideas in Just Ride are fine. Yeah, I've read it -- he sent me a copy, and I have it at my right hand. It's just not necessary for anyone to prove that his ideas are right by proving that someone else's ideas are wrong. Sometimes two ideas can be right at the same time, and to make an idea attractive does not require belittling another idea. You want to go for a run, go for a run. You
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
Guilty as charged. In fact I am definitely not an adherent to Grant's thoughts on cycling attire. I'm wearing plum-smuggling cycling shorts every time I ride, unless it's a very, very short ride. But unlike some folks, I don't feel any pressure to conform to the Unracer philosophy. It's just more ideas about how to make cycling more enjoyable and accessible to all On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 7:39 AM, Ron Mc bulldog...@gmail.com wrote: Every day, there are frightful sights in lycra on every bike path On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 2:18:24 AM UTC-6, Peter M wrote: Every runner knows those Damn walkers are just in the way [image: ] Must be winter. On Feb 25, 2015 2:50 AM, 'pb' via RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owne...@ googlegroups.com wrote: On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 8:18:22 PM UTC-8, Doug Williams wrote: pb, Hmmm...I'm glad that you found a few good LBS's, No, I called three, and got three answers. I made three calls. I got three answers. I chose the three because they were representative of three major corporate entities. but have you read a mainstream bicycle magazine recently? I see all sorts of articles and advertisements glorifying racing and bikes so lightweight that they are completely impractical for normal use. I see VERY few articles and advertisements featuring practical and reliable bikes or articles that espouse using a bike for transportation rather than for only racing or exercise. Transportation? What's that? A fun ride that isn't a race? What's that? Do you read Vogue to find articles on dungarees or Harris tweed? Do you read GQ to find out what to wear when gardening? I don't even know what the mainstream bicycle magazines are any more. I do know that Bicycling (does it still exist?) didn't offer a new article, or cover, in twenty years. They just recycled the old ones on a regular basis (Climb better in 30 days! Get faster in 30 days! Prepare for a century in 30 days! Get leaner in 30 days!). I hope you don't pay to read it. Doug, are you confusing magazines with actual journalism? Magazines exist to make money, and they'll print whatever they think will sell copies. Apparently what you think is interesting isn't what they think will sell copies. Does that prove something about your local bicycle shop, or does it just indicate that maybe you're looking at the wrong magazine, which you knew before you picked it up. I don't think that Grant just invented this issue. The phenomena is quite real. Grant's message resonates with many because the racing phenomena IS real. No, Grant didn't invent the issue, but he has fed the flames, and kept it alive, and he has perpetuated a stereotype, and he has offended folks along the way. For no reason. And I assure you that it has affected his bottom line by marginalizing him. Canonize him for that if you wish. And yes, I do (quite often) encounter smug racers in their spandex uniforms who disparage practical cyclists. They are mostly wannabe's and not real racers, of course. But they are numerous and annoying just the same. Oh come on. There are rude and irritating members of every population group. Do they represent their groups as a whole? See comments about stereotyping. Also, people tend to see what they are looking for. If you are looking for snotty racers, you'll probably find them. Ironically, typing that reminds me of riding into my neighborhood one night from work. My commute ride is about 40 quite hilly miles each way, a solid 2.5 hours, especially after a day of work, and I had ridden both ways that day, leaving the house in the morning at 5:30 (no, I do not do that commute both ways very often). I was on a carbon Look, in lycra, and I had my clothes and shoes and files and a laptop in my Timbuktu. I was riding very tiredly into my development, done for the day, when a fellow in jeans and a plaid shirt went spinning past me on a Surly. He was sitting upright, and he ignored me as he spun past with a grin. I guess he kicked my ass. If it had been me passing him, I would have said hello, because I try to be friendly to other cyclists. Here is my suggestion to you and to Grant: Promote and enjoy the kind of cycling and bicycles that you like, and let those things stand on their own feet. If your LBS sucks and just wants to sell $15,000 Pinarellos and one-piece suits, go to another store, or mail order, but don't tell me that proves every LBS sucks, or that every customer of that LBS is an ass. Don't sneer at other cyclists along the way, or if you do, they may say things like Norma Steinberg said. There is sufficient rudeness and division in our world. Don't perpetuate it. Think about my comment about Ritchey and Fisher and Kelly not needing to belittle roadies to make mountain biking attractive. The opposite happened -- suddenly it was cool to have two bikes! Grant's ideas in Just Ride are fine. Yeah, I've
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
No, Grant didn't invent the issue, but he has fed the flames, and kept it alive, and he has perpetuated a stereotype, and he has offended folks along the way. For no reason. And I assure you that it has affected his bottom line by marginalizing him. This appears to assume GP does what he does mercenary like looking for business. For better or worse GP values his vision over the bottom line. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
On 02/25/2015 10:30 AM, Will wrote: so... was all that discomfort related clothes... or related to position on bike? Clothes. Cycling shoes eliminate foot pressure, cycling shorts have padding and no seams to create pressure ridges. The following year with no changes other than clothing I did my first century in comfort. Also, I did not mention because it wasn't a critical factor in that failure, but comparing lycra jerseys with cotton T shirts in hot and humid conditions such as metro-DC area summers, it's clear that lycra is far cooler and more comfortable. The longer distances you ride and the more difficult conditions, in general the more clothing specific to the sport benefits you. That's not to say it's absolutely essential: on the first century I did complete, there was a kid who ride the whole thing barefoot on rat trap pedals. Don't ask me how, my feet would have been raw meat. On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 8:53:57 AM UTC-6, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 02/25/2015 09:41 AM, Will wrote: Why do you need to wear special clothes to ride? Not arguing, just curious. I've been riding for about 50 years. Newspaper bikes as a before teenage years, then Raleigh racers in college. Shorts and tee shirt have always worked for me. What's the advantage of bike shop attire? I will never forget the first time I tried to ride a century. It was 1973, and I had a P15 Paramount. I was wearing a T shirt, BVDs, cut off denim jeans for shorts, some kind of sneakers and no gloves. By the end of the ride I had branded into my memory the true meaning of the Johnny Cash song Ring of Fire -- blazing lines of pain on my backside from the seams on both underwear and denim shorts, parallel grooves of pain in my feet where the edges of the pedals had transmitted their pressure through the soles of my sneakers. My hands felt as though they were on fire as well. Every 10 miles or so I'd stop and lie down on the ground and try to will the agony away, but by mile 75 I realized I'd been wishing a dog would run out in front of me so I could crash and just lay down on the pavement. At that point I stopped and waited for the SAG wagon. It's the only time I've ever SAGged back from a century. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
Mark, I'm with you on this. In the Texas summer, cooling and evaporation is everything. Padding = insulation = chaffing. Last summer I did three long rides in a row (180km, 130km and 110km back to back) in the thinnest merino boxers and cotton shorts I could find. I was next to naked. Riding on a B17 Special that was only a few months old. My body felt fantastic the whole way, except for one section of trail filled with hidden gopher holes...ouch. I was amazed. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
Why do you need to wear special clothes to ride? Not arguing, just curious. I've been riding for about 50 years. Newspaper bikes as a before teenage years, then Raleigh racers in college. Shorts and tee shirt have always worked for me. What's the advantage of bike shop attire? On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 8:21:59 AM UTC-6, Jim Bronson wrote: Guilty as charged. In fact I am definitely not an adherent to Grant's thoughts on cycling attire. I'm wearing plum-smuggling cycling shorts every time I ride, unless it's a very, very short ride. But unlike some folks, I don't feel any pressure to conform to the Unracer philosophy. It's just more ideas about how to make cycling more enjoyable and accessible to all On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 7:39 AM, Ron Mc bulld...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: Every day, there are frightful sights in lycra on every bike path On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 2:18:24 AM UTC-6, Peter M wrote: Every runner knows those Damn walkers are just in the way [image: ] Must be winter. On Feb 25, 2015 2:50 AM, 'pb' via RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owne...@ googlegroups.com wrote: On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 8:18:22 PM UTC-8, Doug Williams wrote: pb, Hmmm...I'm glad that you found a few good LBS's, No, I called three, and got three answers. I made three calls. I got three answers. I chose the three because they were representative of three major corporate entities. but have you read a mainstream bicycle magazine recently? I see all sorts of articles and advertisements glorifying racing and bikes so lightweight that they are completely impractical for normal use. I see VERY few articles and advertisements featuring practical and reliable bikes or articles that espouse using a bike for transportation rather than for only racing or exercise. Transportation? What's that? A fun ride that isn't a race? What's that? Do you read Vogue to find articles on dungarees or Harris tweed? Do you read GQ to find out what to wear when gardening? I don't even know what the mainstream bicycle magazines are any more. I do know that Bicycling (does it still exist?) didn't offer a new article, or cover, in twenty years. They just recycled the old ones on a regular basis (Climb better in 30 days! Get faster in 30 days! Prepare for a century in 30 days! Get leaner in 30 days!). I hope you don't pay to read it. Doug, are you confusing magazines with actual journalism? Magazines exist to make money, and they'll print whatever they think will sell copies. Apparently what you think is interesting isn't what they think will sell copies. Does that prove something about your local bicycle shop, or does it just indicate that maybe you're looking at the wrong magazine, which you knew before you picked it up. I don't think that Grant just invented this issue. The phenomena is quite real. Grant's message resonates with many because the racing phenomena IS real. No, Grant didn't invent the issue, but he has fed the flames, and kept it alive, and he has perpetuated a stereotype, and he has offended folks along the way. For no reason. And I assure you that it has affected his bottom line by marginalizing him. Canonize him for that if you wish. And yes, I do (quite often) encounter smug racers in their spandex uniforms who disparage practical cyclists. They are mostly wannabe's and not real racers, of course. But they are numerous and annoying just the same. Oh come on. There are rude and irritating members of every population group. Do they represent their groups as a whole? See comments about stereotyping. Also, people tend to see what they are looking for. If you are looking for snotty racers, you'll probably find them. Ironically, typing that reminds me of riding into my neighborhood one night from work. My commute ride is about 40 quite hilly miles each way, a solid 2.5 hours, especially after a day of work, and I had ridden both ways that day, leaving the house in the morning at 5:30 (no, I do not do that commute both ways very often). I was on a carbon Look, in lycra, and I had my clothes and shoes and files and a laptop in my Timbuktu. I was riding very tiredly into my development, done for the day, when a fellow in jeans and a plaid shirt went spinning past me on a Surly. He was sitting upright, and he ignored me as he spun past with a grin. I guess he kicked my ass. If it had been me passing him, I would have said hello, because I try to be friendly to other cyclists. Here is my suggestion to you and to Grant: Promote and enjoy the kind of cycling and bicycles that you like, and let those things stand on their own feet. If your LBS sucks and just wants to sell $15,000 Pinarellos and one-piece suits, go to another store, or mail order, but don't tell me that proves every LBS sucks, or that
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
I disagree with the previous statement. I've done many century rides in good quality (Assos) lyrca kit on a number of saddles. Usually around the 60 mile mark I'll start to get a bit sore. By the end of the ride, it's a constant dull ache. Doesn't matter if I use different brand of bibs/chamois, saddles, etc. Last summer I did three long rides in a row (180km, 130km and 110km back to back) in the thinnest merino boxers and cotton shorts I could find. I was next to naked. Riding on a B17 Special that was only a few months old. My body felt fantastic the whole way, except for one section of trail filled with hidden gopher holes...ouch. I was amazed. I think the key to comfort definitely hinges on selecting the 'right' clothes and saddle, but what is 'right' does not ever *have* to be lycra/cycling kit. Nothing wrong with riding in that stuff, I do it all the time too. However, I've ridden 100km rides in Levi's and leather boots, felt fine. On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 9:52:58 AM UTC-6, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 02/25/2015 10:30 AM, Will wrote: so... was all that discomfort related clothes... or related to position on bike? Clothes. Cycling shoes eliminate foot pressure, cycling shorts have padding and no seams to create pressure ridges. The following year with no changes other than clothing I did my first century in comfort. Also, I did not mention because it wasn't a critical factor in that failure, but comparing lycra jerseys with cotton T shirts in hot and humid conditions such as metro-DC area summers, it's clear that lycra is far cooler and more comfortable. The longer distances you ride and the more difficult conditions, in general the more clothing specific to the sport benefits you. That's not to say it's absolutely essential: on the first century I did complete, there was a kid who ride the whole thing barefoot on rat trap pedals. Don't ask me how, my feet would have been raw meat. On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 8:53:57 AM UTC-6, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 02/25/2015 09:41 AM, Will wrote: Why do you need to wear special clothes to ride? Not arguing, just curious. I've been riding for about 50 years. Newspaper bikes as a before teenage years, then Raleigh racers in college. Shorts and tee shirt have always worked for me. What's the advantage of bike shop attire? I will never forget the first time I tried to ride a century. It was 1973, and I had a P15 Paramount. I was wearing a T shirt, BVDs, cut off denim jeans for shorts, some kind of sneakers and no gloves. By the end of the ride I had branded into my memory the true meaning of the Johnny Cash song Ring of Fire -- blazing lines of pain on my backside from the seams on both underwear and denim shorts, parallel grooves of pain in my feet where the edges of the pedals had transmitted their pressure through the soles of my sneakers. My hands felt as though they were on fire as well. Every 10 miles or so I'd stop and lie down on the ground and try to will the agony away, but by mile 75 I realized I'd been wishing a dog would run out in front of me so I could crash and just lay down on the pavement. At that point I stopped and waited for the SAG wagon. It's the only time I've ever SAGged back from a century. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com javascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
I learned from Grant that seamless shorts/pants and a good saddle are more important than padding. I actually got more comfortable on my usual 20-40-mile rides when I switched to wool unpadded underwear and Swrve baggy shorts; tight, padded lycra didn't work well for me. I can't vouch for what works on centuries, though..my body doesn't seem to like that distance on *any* bike in *any* type of clothing ;) On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 7:52:58 AM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 02/25/2015 10:30 AM, Will wrote: so... was all that discomfort related clothes... or related to position on bike? Clothes. Cycling shoes eliminate foot pressure, cycling shorts have padding and no seams to create pressure ridges. The following year with no changes other than clothing I did my first century in comfort. Also, I did not mention because it wasn't a critical factor in that failure, but comparing lycra jerseys with cotton T shirts in hot and humid conditions such as metro-DC area summers, it's clear that lycra is far cooler and more comfortable. The longer distances you ride and the more difficult conditions, in general the more clothing specific to the sport benefits you. That's not to say it's absolutely essential: on the first century I did complete, there was a kid who ride the whole thing barefoot on rat trap pedals. Don't ask me how, my feet would have been raw meat. On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 8:53:57 AM UTC-6, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 02/25/2015 09:41 AM, Will wrote: Why do you need to wear special clothes to ride? Not arguing, just curious. I've been riding for about 50 years. Newspaper bikes as a before teenage years, then Raleigh racers in college. Shorts and tee shirt have always worked for me. What's the advantage of bike shop attire? I will never forget the first time I tried to ride a century. It was 1973, and I had a P15 Paramount. I was wearing a T shirt, BVDs, cut off denim jeans for shorts, some kind of sneakers and no gloves. By the end of the ride I had branded into my memory the true meaning of the Johnny Cash song Ring of Fire -- blazing lines of pain on my backside from the seams on both underwear and denim shorts, parallel grooves of pain in my feet where the edges of the pedals had transmitted their pressure through the soles of my sneakers. My hands felt as though they were on fire as well. Every 10 miles or so I'd stop and lie down on the ground and try to will the agony away, but by mile 75 I realized I'd been wishing a dog would run out in front of me so I could crash and just lay down on the pavement. At that point I stopped and waited for the SAG wagon. It's the only time I've ever SAGged back from a century. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com javascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
some of the arguments above need clarification. Racing Crowd should be defined as the general trend of the industry. It actually doesn't include actual racers. Rather, it's a droves of cyclists who leave a bike shop with carbon and lycra, and an industry pushing them out the door that way. In many cases, they would be better served by following Grant's model. The letter to the editor guy doesn't get one simple fact. Everybody else is selling what he wants. It's great that we have Rivendell providing an alternative for the rest of us. On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 8:41:59 AM UTC-6, Will wrote: Why do you need to wear special clothes to ride? Not arguing, just curious. I've been riding for about 50 years. Newspaper bikes as a before teenage years, then Raleigh racers in college. Shorts and tee shirt have always worked for me. What's the advantage of bike shop attire? On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 8:21:59 AM UTC-6, Jim Bronson wrote: Guilty as charged. In fact I am definitely not an adherent to Grant's thoughts on cycling attire. I'm wearing plum-smuggling cycling shorts every time I ride, unless it's a very, very short ride. But unlike some folks, I don't feel any pressure to conform to the Unracer philosophy. It's just more ideas about how to make cycling more enjoyable and accessible to all On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 7:39 AM, Ron Mc bulld...@gmail.com wrote: Every day, there are frightful sights in lycra on every bike path On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 2:18:24 AM UTC-6, Peter M wrote: Every runner knows those Damn walkers are just in the way [image: ] Must be winter. On Feb 25, 2015 2:50 AM, 'pb' via RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owne...@ googlegroups.com wrote: On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 8:18:22 PM UTC-8, Doug Williams wrote: pb, Hmmm...I'm glad that you found a few good LBS's, No, I called three, and got three answers. I made three calls. I got three answers. I chose the three because they were representative of three major corporate entities. but have you read a mainstream bicycle magazine recently? I see all sorts of articles and advertisements glorifying racing and bikes so lightweight that they are completely impractical for normal use. I see VERY few articles and advertisements featuring practical and reliable bikes or articles that espouse using a bike for transportation rather than for only racing or exercise. Transportation? What's that? A fun ride that isn't a race? What's that? Do you read Vogue to find articles on dungarees or Harris tweed? Do you read GQ to find out what to wear when gardening? I don't even know what the mainstream bicycle magazines are any more. I do know that Bicycling (does it still exist?) didn't offer a new article, or cover, in twenty years. They just recycled the old ones on a regular basis (Climb better in 30 days! Get faster in 30 days! Prepare for a century in 30 days! Get leaner in 30 days!). I hope you don't pay to read it. Doug, are you confusing magazines with actual journalism? Magazines exist to make money, and they'll print whatever they think will sell copies. Apparently what you think is interesting isn't what they think will sell copies. Does that prove something about your local bicycle shop, or does it just indicate that maybe you're looking at the wrong magazine, which you knew before you picked it up. I don't think that Grant just invented this issue. The phenomena is quite real. Grant's message resonates with many because the racing phenomena IS real. No, Grant didn't invent the issue, but he has fed the flames, and kept it alive, and he has perpetuated a stereotype, and he has offended folks along the way. For no reason. And I assure you that it has affected his bottom line by marginalizing him. Canonize him for that if you wish. And yes, I do (quite often) encounter smug racers in their spandex uniforms who disparage practical cyclists. They are mostly wannabe's and not real racers, of course. But they are numerous and annoying just the same. Oh come on. There are rude and irritating members of every population group. Do they represent their groups as a whole? See comments about stereotyping. Also, people tend to see what they are looking for. If you are looking for snotty racers, you'll probably find them. Ironically, typing that reminds me of riding into my neighborhood one night from work. My commute ride is about 40 quite hilly miles each way, a solid 2.5 hours, especially after a day of work, and I had ridden both ways that day, leaving the house in the morning at 5:30 (no, I do not do that commute both ways very often). I was on a carbon Look, in lycra, and I had my clothes and shoes and files and a laptop in my Timbuktu. I was riding very tiredly into my development, done for the day, when a fellow in
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
On 02/25/2015 09:41 AM, Will wrote: Why do you need to wear special clothes to ride? Not arguing, just curious. I've been riding for about 50 years. Newspaper bikes as a before teenage years, then Raleigh racers in college. Shorts and tee shirt have always worked for me. What's the advantage of bike shop attire? I will never forget the first time I tried to ride a century. It was 1973, and I had a P15 Paramount. I was wearing a T shirt, BVDs, cut off denim jeans for shorts, some kind of sneakers and no gloves. By the end of the ride I had branded into my memory the true meaning of the Johnny Cash song Ring of Fire -- blazing lines of pain on my backside from the seams on both underwear and denim shorts, parallel grooves of pain in my feet where the edges of the pedals had transmitted their pressure through the soles of my sneakers. My hands felt as though they were on fire as well. Every 10 miles or so I'd stop and lie down on the ground and try to will the agony away, but by mile 75 I realized I'd been wishing a dog would run out in front of me so I could crash and just lay down on the pavement. At that point I stopped and waited for the SAG wagon. It's the only time I've ever SAGged back from a century. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
so... was all that discomfort related clothes... or related to position on bike? On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 8:53:57 AM UTC-6, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 02/25/2015 09:41 AM, Will wrote: Why do you need to wear special clothes to ride? Not arguing, just curious. I've been riding for about 50 years. Newspaper bikes as a before teenage years, then Raleigh racers in college. Shorts and tee shirt have always worked for me. What's the advantage of bike shop attire? I will never forget the first time I tried to ride a century. It was 1973, and I had a P15 Paramount. I was wearing a T shirt, BVDs, cut off denim jeans for shorts, some kind of sneakers and no gloves. By the end of the ride I had branded into my memory the true meaning of the Johnny Cash song Ring of Fire -- blazing lines of pain on my backside from the seams on both underwear and denim shorts, parallel grooves of pain in my feet where the edges of the pedals had transmitted their pressure through the soles of my sneakers. My hands felt as though they were on fire as well. Every 10 miles or so I'd stop and lie down on the ground and try to will the agony away, but by mile 75 I realized I'd been wishing a dog would run out in front of me so I could crash and just lay down on the pavement. At that point I stopped and waited for the SAG wagon. It's the only time I've ever SAGged back from a century. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
The body and the riding style must have some play in this as well. Presumably many of the loaded cycle touring Europeans one sees on the Eurovelo routes are riding multi-day. They probably do not ride a full 100+km every day and likely stop more frequently than someone attempting a timed ride will. Nonetheless it immediately jumps out at this U.S. person's eyes how many of them are not wearing cycle specific anything. Lycra, Spandex, cycle shoes, etc are certainly available in Europe. Euro road racing club members are just as likely to be wearing full race gear as those in the U.S. Tourists however consistently hew to the GP ideal. Either they are all masochists or they have discovered a happy medium many cycle tourists in the U.S. have not. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 5:38 AM, Addison Wilhite addisonwilh...@gmail.com wrote: I kind of feel like the revolution is over and we won. Anymore, while I can certainly find the carbon roadie types, they aren't living in the niche. Just like the extreme downhillers or whatever they are called. I just don't see a lot of riders so focused on 25mm tires that don't also accept the benefits of a fatter tire Not true where I am in Silicon Valley . If I show up at the start of one of my (touring) club's rides, a ride meant for people riding a moderate pace, and I see twenty other riders, there will be one steel bike, and I'll be riding it. There will be no bikes that take tires wider than 28 mm, other than my Roadeo. Typically riders have 25 mm tires pumped up rock hard. Everyone will have lycra shorts including me (haven't found anything else that works for me) and everyone else will be wearing roadie jerseys with sublimated graphics. There's one club ride I go on, an easy-paced ride that I do for camaraderie. Most of the riders are like me, over 50, in a lot of cases well over 50. But there is one young woman who shows up on an old Stumpjumper with flat bars, wearing street clothes. Although she has no trouble keeping up, and she has a fine bike, almost every time she has shown up at a ride I'm on someone will explain to her that her bike is wrong and she needs a different one. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
someone will explain to her that her bike is wrong cue *forehead smacking into desk* On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 11:56 AM, Anne Paulson anne.paul...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 5:38 AM, Addison Wilhite addisonwilh...@gmail.com wrote: I kind of feel like the revolution is over and we won. Anymore, while I can certainly find the carbon roadie types, they aren't living in the niche. Just like the extreme downhillers or whatever they are called. I just don't see a lot of riders so focused on 25mm tires that don't also accept the benefits of a fatter tire Not true where I am in Silicon Valley . If I show up at the start of one of my (touring) club's rides, a ride meant for people riding a moderate pace, and I see twenty other riders, there will be one steel bike, and I'll be riding it. There will be no bikes that take tires wider than 28 mm, other than my Roadeo. Typically riders have 25 mm tires pumped up rock hard. Everyone will have lycra shorts including me (haven't found anything else that works for me) and everyone else will be wearing roadie jerseys with sublimated graphics. There's one club ride I go on, an easy-paced ride that I do for camaraderie. Most of the riders are like me, over 50, in a lot of cases well over 50. But there is one young woman who shows up on an old Stumpjumper with flat bars, wearing street clothes. Although she has no trouble keeping up, and she has a fine bike, almost every time she has shown up at a ride I'm on someone will explain to her that her bike is wrong and she needs a different one. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/F-3pQcXcdIw/unsubscribe . To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
Paul and Jim: from what I observe around me in ABQ, NM, which is a cycling-enthusiast city, is that there are all kinds of riders riding all kinds of things, but I see more than a few fat middle aged people slowly riding carbon fiber racing bikes in tight lycra kit on the bike path. Now that may be their own choice, and if so, more power to them, but the phenomenon of plainly less-than-optimally fit riders equipped with racing, or at least, looks-like-racing gear, is there for all to see. I think Grant is often somewhat intemperate in his assertions, but then he is also a small voice in a big, loud world, and there is thus some excuse for that. FWIW: the 5 bike shops nearest my house, in order of proximity, and their stocks: ABQ Bicycle: family store, mostly kids, hybrids, fixies (at least, during the fad), a few recumbents, a few tricycles. Displays various ancient DL-1s and cousins. Fat Tire Cycles: a very big store with a wide array from top end racing thru cruisers and hybrids to top end mountain bikes; Surlys, too. Hawk's Tri-Cycle: Mostly tri and racing, but some family stuff. Stevie's Happy Bikes: A family shop: mostly hybrids, city bikes, cruisers, mountain bikes, and old cool stuff. High Desert Bicycles: Mostly high end racing and mtb. (All -- tho' I don't know Hawk's very well -- give good to excellent repair and upgrade service; they know how to order weird old parts for a '58 Herse, for example.) On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 8:16 PM, 'pb' via RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com wrote: On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 4:57:32 PM UTC-8, Jim Bronson wrote: Why? Why, over and over again? Because the racing philosophy has the mainstream and the LBS. And it's not what serves most causal riders best, and I applaud Grant for calling them out for it. We all have seen at the LBS the times when some racerish young LBS employee is trying to fit an older person onto a racerish bike, that will not be well served by said bike. Why is this what's in the mainstream? I just got off the phone with three representative LBS's. I asked them all the same thing: I'm going to send my 58-year-old neighbor in to see you. He has average fitness, not bad, hikes on the weekend, hasn't ridden a bike since college. He wants to start riding on weekends, maybe work up riding more regularly. What kind of bike do you think he should look at first? The shops were Black Mountain Bicycles, a large Specialized dealer, the Performance near my house, and the Trek Super Store nearest to my house. All three gave me the same answer: a flat bar road hybrid. None said, well, duh, a racing bicycle, of course, with drop bars three inches below the saddle! Then I asked about what tires would come with the bikes. Both the Trek and Specialized stores said, somewhere between 32 and 38. The guy at Performance said, 28 at the narrowest, but more likely 32 or 35. Two of the three asked if I knew whether my friend had back or neck pain, and both suggested my friend should start off with something pretty upright. The guy at Performance said, well, I'd really have to talk to him to find out what he wants to do with the bike. So, are those answers OK with you, Jim? How big a sample do I need to persuade you that stereotyping the industry, LBS's, and a group of cyclists, has the same value as other stereotypes? By the way, do you know what bike shops make the most money on, the largest margins? Rubber and softgoods. If LBS's are as stupid and singleminded as you and, apparently, Grant think they are, and if they are pushing bikes that will make people uncomfortable, tell me, do you think their customers will come back and buy rubber and softgoods? Will their customers be excited about riding, and bring their friends in to buy bikes? Do I think the racerish sale has ever happened? Of course I know that it has. There are poor salespeople, making inappropriate sales, in every industry. However, tarring the bicycle industry, and a significant group of its members, all with the same brush, is not productive, and does not reflect well on the speaker. The whole nonsense of making an entire group of people wrong so that you can feel superior just needs to stop. And I gotta tell you, I've never heard any of the racer-y people I know say, those people on lugged steel bikes with alba bars sure are stupid and brainwashed. I refer again to Norma's last paragraph. Clearly, she has gotten an impression about Grant and about his positions, and it's not a positive impression. I'm betting that she is in fact a nice person, and not a stupid one. And, she's a cyclist! However she arrived at her impression of Grant ... well, you draw your own conclusions. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
It finds ramparts and entrenchments where many of us see only expansive fields. Suggests battle lines which would put many of us at odds with ourselves. Hear Hear On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 9:38 AM, Cyclofiend Jim cyclofi...@gmail.com wrote: Well, I've just typed out and deleted about four different comments to this thread. None of them did anything other than unearth and compound arguments. Rather than rehash and empower those, I found myself stepping back and considering perspectives in the original-letter-to-the-editor's communication which seem consistent to others who have voiced similar opinions over the years. One thing is that they make it sound as if Grant has taken this position in order to sell more bikes/clothing/gear. That it is somehow inconsistent with his true nature, as put on as a fallen film-star's contrition. Another is that his position is binary. Either/Or. My Way/Highway. A third is that it is proven wrong through a single counter-example. It finds ramparts and entrenchments where many of us see only expansive fields. Suggests battle lines which would put many of us at odds with ourselves. Many folks need no inducement to roll out and cover the miles. It's unlikely the book (or other writings) were offered for them. The more time you've spent riding, the more you have fallen and learned, both metaphorically and literally. It's a natural process to leave behind those things which do not help. It's needless weight on the climb of our life. Many folks need a hand up, a push on the saddle, an offering of a required tool, a draftable figure in a challenging headwind. A different route through the forest. Doesn't make either way right or wrong. Take what you will. Leave what don't require. - Jim cyclofiend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- I want the kind of six pack you can't drink. -- Micah -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
I don't live in Silicon Valley. However, in the Reno/Tahoe areas we have multiple club rides that are going to be made up of the types of kits/bikes you mention. But that is only a snapshot of the type of riding those people do. That may be the perfect set up for a fast road ride of 30-50 miles with a bunch of club racer types on a Saturday morning. On Sunday morning maybe they are grabbing their Fargos and doing a multisurface ride. I certainly see that in the many people I know in the bike community. Or maybe they are grabbing golf clubs and getting kitted out for a different type of recreation with different group of friends. They are different horses in the stable and the type of ride you decide to use them on may determine a different kit/setup. I find people way to quick to judge on the list when they look at another rider on a carbon bike in Lycra and assume that person was duped by a bike shop into pretending to be Chris Froome. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm just saying it feels an awful lot like self-righteousness and it troubles me. Now if you want to judge someone for eating pet food ;-) Addison Wilhite, M.A. Academy of Arts, Careers and Technology http://www.washoeschools.net/aact *“Blazing the Trail to College and Career Success”* Educator: Professional Portfolio http://addisonwilhite.blogspot.com/ Blogger: Reno Rambler http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com/ Bicycle Advocate: Regional Transportation Commission, Bicycle Pedestrian Advisory Committee http://www.rtcwashoe.com/public-transportation-22-124.html On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 9:56 AM, Anne Paulson anne.paul...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 5:38 AM, Addison Wilhite addisonwilh...@gmail.com wrote: I kind of feel like the revolution is over and we won. Anymore, while I can certainly find the carbon roadie types, they aren't living in the niche. Just like the extreme downhillers or whatever they are called. I just don't see a lot of riders so focused on 25mm tires that don't also accept the benefits of a fatter tire Not true where I am in Silicon Valley . If I show up at the start of one of my (touring) club's rides, a ride meant for people riding a moderate pace, and I see twenty other riders, there will be one steel bike, and I'll be riding it. There will be no bikes that take tires wider than 28 mm, other than my Roadeo. Typically riders have 25 mm tires pumped up rock hard. Everyone will have lycra shorts including me (haven't found anything else that works for me) and everyone else will be wearing roadie jerseys with sublimated graphics. There's one club ride I go on, an easy-paced ride that I do for camaraderie. Most of the riders are like me, over 50, in a lot of cases well over 50. But there is one young woman who shows up on an old Stumpjumper with flat bars, wearing street clothes. Although she has no trouble keeping up, and she has a fine bike, almost every time she has shown up at a ride I'm on someone will explain to her that her bike is wrong and she needs a different one. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
Good to hear that's what's going on in Reno/Tahoe. But I've been a member of my club for 30 years, so I know the other members. They haven't got Fargos sitting in their garages. They're mostly afraid of dirt, and they cancel rides *if the roads are wet*. No, I am not making that up; they are afraid to ride not only during a rain, but after a rain. (Not that this has limited their riding in the last couple of years, unfortunately.) On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 10:40 AM, Addison Wilhite addisonwilh...@gmail.com wrote: I don't live in Silicon Valley. However, in the Reno/Tahoe areas we have multiple club rides that are going to be made up of the types of kits/bikes you mention. But that is only a snapshot of the type of riding those people do. That may be the perfect set up for a fast road ride of 30-50 miles with a bunch of club racer types on a Saturday morning. On Sunday morning maybe they are grabbing their Fargos and doing a multisurface ride. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
I was in my early 40's when I returned to biking. The LBS in San Francisco didn't try to sell me a race bike, but it was clear that they thought if I didn't get a road/race bike, then I needed a Mountain Bike. I bought a Kona Fire Mountain and didn't really ride it much either in the Bay Area or in the Twin Cities where I've lived for the past 12 years. Then, when I was in my late '40's, I saw my first Riv: an Atlantis with m'bars and old first generation Baggins panniers. I fell in love. Crawled around the bike on my hands and knees in love. I googled Riv. I poured over the website. I went to Riv when I visited the Bay Area. More in love. My wise partner said, if you (mostly) commute to work on your current bike, then that would justify a Riv. I rode my Kona through the year, in 90 degrees, in snow, in glorius weather...and then I got a Saluki in 2006. I'm a rider now. I'm a rider again—something I hadn't been since I was 18. My Riv's, especially the audacious custom, feel like they are a part of me. Even through I don't have one, the Atlantis brought me into the fold and Grant's writing, whenever and wherever I encountered it, enabled me to change my mindset and my way of being in the world to include bicycles. What a gift. I don't care what others do or ride or wear. I just want others who may be in some way like me to have the same possibility of awakening. Sometimes they do need that mouse squeaking above the roar of the waterfall. I did. -rcw -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
Well, not necessarily bike shop attire, but cycling-specific attire: less chafing, less binding, better coverage (I hate low-waisted pants that pull down, and short tops that pull up); less annoying flapping (windy, here); adapts well to changes in temperature, both external and internal; doesn't get caught in chains or on bottle cages; doesn't slip on pedals; keeps ears warm; etc etc. Pockets in the back! I do agree that bike fit and setup is the most important part of cycling comfort, though, and while I wear tights and cycling knickers in cooler weather, I never wear padded shorts. Now, in hot weather, I'll maintain the principle of comfort and efficiency above all else by wearing baggy rayon shirts for the cooling effect. I suppose each cyclist and his/her circumstances is/are different; I wish I could ride as fast and as far as I could as a youth when I covered long distances, *fast,* wearing jeans or cords and Safari Boots. But I remember chafing even then. On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 7:41 AM, Will waller.will...@gmail.com wrote: Why do you need to wear special clothes to ride? Not arguing, just curious. I've been riding for about 50 years. Newspaper bikes as a before teenage years, then Raleigh racers in college. Shorts and tee shirt have always worked for me. What's the advantage of bike shop attire? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
I really think we're in the golden-age of awesome cycling right now! I believe that at this point, based on my personal anecdotal observations, so therefore 100% valid, a lot of riding is happening! And all kinds of people are riding all kinds of bikes wearing all kinds of things. So now that is cleared up, locally to me, we have a go-fast club in Lycra on MCRBs. Another club that wears the matching jersies, but on all kinds of bikes. A lot of commuters wearing street clothes. Tons of MTBers, mostly in Lycra I guess, but mixed a bit in apparel. There is a small but dedicated group of all-roaders that ride various stuff and wear various other stuff depending on the day/mood/goal/wash-cycle. I tend to hang out with the latter group the most. Surly is the brand I see the most with them. Shop-wise, both local shops in town are upright and conscientious, with good people that love bikes working there. That said, I think they steer people to stock on hand. MCRB, 29er, 700C hybrid. Electra cruiser. Pick one. They can order a Surly, a Breezer, or a baked-feet, but for the most part they're going to suggest one of the four standards. I wish they carried more varied bikes, but they seem to be making money without my input on their business model! I or most anyone on this list could walk in and have a great experience and up with a Salsa Vaya or similar on order. Would be a great bike, and we would be happy, but you have to know the right questions to ask. I think that's probably the only downside for coming in from the outside. On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 10:53:01 AM UTC-8, Anne Paulson wrote: Good to hear that's what's going on in Reno/Tahoe. But I've been a member of my club for 30 years, so I know the other members. They haven't got Fargos sitting in their garages. They're mostly afraid of dirt, and they cancel rides *if the roads are wet*. No, I am not making that up; they are afraid to ride not only during a rain, but after a rain. (Not that this has limited their riding in the last couple of years, unfortunately.) On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 10:40 AM, Addison Wilhite addison...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: I don't live in Silicon Valley. However, in the Reno/Tahoe areas we have multiple club rides that are going to be made up of the types of kits/bikes you mention. But that is only a snapshot of the type of riding those people do. That may be the perfect set up for a fast road ride of 30-50 miles with a bunch of club racer types on a Saturday morning. On Sunday morning maybe they are grabbing their Fargos and doing a multisurface ride. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
The right tool for the job, and the humbleness to recognize when such are necessary. Folks really do take themselves too seriously. Andy Cheatham Pittsburgh On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 9:53:57 AM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 02/25/2015 09:41 AM, Will wrote: Why do you need to wear special clothes to ride? Not arguing, just curious. I've been riding for about 50 years. Newspaper bikes as a before teenage years, then Raleigh racers in college. Shorts and tee shirt have always worked for me. What's the advantage of bike shop attire? I will never forget the first time I tried to ride a century. It was 1973, and I had a P15 Paramount. I was wearing a T shirt, BVDs, cut off denim jeans for shorts, some kind of sneakers and no gloves. By the end of the ride I had branded into my memory the true meaning of the Johnny Cash song Ring of Fire -- blazing lines of pain on my backside from the seams on both underwear and denim shorts, parallel grooves of pain in my feet where the edges of the pedals had transmitted their pressure through the soles of my sneakers. My hands felt as though they were on fire as well. Every 10 miles or so I'd stop and lie down on the ground and try to will the agony away, but by mile 75 I realized I'd been wishing a dog would run out in front of me so I could crash and just lay down on the pavement. At that point I stopped and waited for the SAG wagon. It's the only time I've ever SAGged back from a century. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 1:42:01 PM UTC-8, ascpgh wrote: The right tool for the job, and the humbleness to recognize when such are necessary. Folks really do take themselves too seriously. Agree! I love these types of threads! You see all sides. I'm from the camp that if CF bikes, lycra gets people riding, well go for it! I have a buddy who for over 20+ years, we've been trying to get him out and riding with us. For 20+ years, he says naw, all I need is my old is my old mtb. He hated dt shifters and thought the positioning on a road bike was too painful. Then about 4 years ago, he wanted a new bike and went into a Specialized dealer. They put him on an aluminum road bike, but one designed for higher bars with a wider seat and BAM, he was hooked! Not only did he buy the bike and wanted to ride, he actually upgraded to the carbon model within 2 weeks!! Further, and I'm not done yet, two years later he started talking to us about getting a new bike?! The next thing you know he walks into a Trek dealer and drops $5K+ on a Madone with the latest ultegra di2! Moreover, and you all will love this, this guy, who was 5'11 190, got so into riding that he DROPPED 30 POUNDS Yup, all of a sudden, he has the latest clothing (lycra jersey, shorts, the whole 9 yards) and is killing everyone blasting up the hill?!! Now, this is nothing but anedotal and just one example, but for my buddy, the right tool got him going! I don't care what it was made out of, but the supposedly stiff, uncomfortable aluminum frame road bike got him hooked and we love it! Btw, for all you paleo lovers, you'll hate this guy! While dropping 30lbs, he still eats like a pig and that includes massive amounts of noodles, rice and bread (hey, a guy's got to carbo load!) In the meantime, I'm just the opposite and can't drop an ounce. Maybe I need to do that paleo thingGood Luck! Andy Cheatham Pittsburgh On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 9:53:57 AM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 02/25/2015 09:41 AM, Will wrote: Why do you need to wear special clothes to ride? Not arguing, just curious. I've been riding for about 50 years. Newspaper bikes as a before teenage years, then Raleigh racers in college. Shorts and tee shirt have always worked for me. What's the advantage of bike shop attire? I will never forget the first time I tried to ride a century. It was 1973, and I had a P15 Paramount. I was wearing a T shirt, BVDs, cut off denim jeans for shorts, some kind of sneakers and no gloves. By the end of the ride I had branded into my memory the true meaning of the Johnny Cash song Ring of Fire -- blazing lines of pain on my backside from the seams on both underwear and denim shorts, parallel grooves of pain in my feet where the edges of the pedals had transmitted their pressure through the soles of my sneakers. My hands felt as though they were on fire as well. Every 10 miles or so I'd stop and lie down on the ground and try to will the agony away, but by mile 75 I realized I'd been wishing a dog would run out in front of me so I could crash and just lay down on the pavement. At that point I stopped and waited for the SAG wagon. It's the only time I've ever SAGged back from a century. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
One thing I think is a factor in a lot of this, is socioeconomics. Maybe I'm wrong, or, maybe not where you are, but, at least for my neck of the woods. (my neck of the woods being, a non-urban center, small-town, car-centric region where everyone over 15 is expected to have a car or two) I see the 'ensemble' of racing/club attire is used as a differentiator, indicating some level of affluence that you have a carbon bike, and can afford special clothing reserved for riding your bike, with like-minded people. It's a sign of buy-in to the club.If you're not in lycra and spandex, if you're not on a carbon bike, then, you must not be able to afford such, and you are some lower-echelon person that couldn't afford a car, and not someone who one wants to be associated with. We here in RBW-Owners-Bunch are aware that that doesn't always hold true... our 'antique' bikes and wool underwear cost more than their Fuji Supremes and Primal jerseys But we're a niche within a subset of a smaller group of the biking population. It really isn't about the price tag for us, we're into what we like for whatever reasons we like it, and it's worth what we'll pay; and for those on this group that have carbon racers too, well, you are on the Rivendell group, so, you're not entirely anti-Rivendellish, right? But you at least understand both sides. But away from our corner of the biking world, there's a lot of people that don't know better they see the TdF, they want to get into shape, they 'buy-in' with the outfits and the latest/greatest, because it must be best, right? Grant used to race; he's not anti-racing... if you're gonna race, then go race, on a race bike.But if you're not racing, you might as well be comfortable and enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
this ^^ is the first thing that makes sense in this whole thread. There are all kinds of fish in this giant fishbowl. Some wear sandals and baggy shorts...that's not me. Lycra/wool shorts have a place for performance riding, On tour, some loose fitting over-shorts are more appropriate.Can't we all get just along? ~mike Carlsbad Ca -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
I can't remember who first stated it in this epic thread, but I'll agree that Grant's response was a little disingenuous-- Just Ride is definitely not a kumbaya, just-do-your-own-thing get along gang book. It says in many places that people who use clipless shoes, or wear lycra, or are more interested in riding fast than riding fun, are misguided and have been conned by the industry. It's a contrarian take on something that many people are passionate about and have their identities tied up in, so it shouldn't be surprising that some get their buttons pushed about this type of stuff. Regardless, you can't pretend that Grant isn't pushing the buttons of the roadie world, and I wish he'd just own it. I don't agree with all of (or these days, many of) the RBW ideals, but I feel much more interested in something that gleefully challenges the cycling status quo than something that backpedals whenever someone gets upset. You can't be Copernicus without getting the Pope angry at you, you know? -Dan, DC -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
On 02/25/2015 05:39 PM, Brewster Fong wrote: Now, this is nothing but anedotal and just one example, but for my buddy, the right tool got him going! I don't care what it was made out of, but the supposedly stiff, uncomfortable aluminum frame road bike got him hooked and we love it! Some of those Alu Specialized road bikes have riding positions very similar to what GP was advocating back in 2002. I know quite a few people who have them and like them a lot. I think the Zerts inserts are pure placebo and the bikes would be better off with something wider than a 25mm tire, but for something you can just walk into a LBS and get for (by modern standards) relatively cheap money, there are lots worse bikes people could buy. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
Brewster Fong bfd...@gmail.com wrote: Btw, for all you paleo lovers, you'll hate this guy! While dropping 30lbs, he still eats like a pig and that includes massive amounts of noodles, rice and bread (hey, a guy's got to carbo load!)... Kudos to him! I wish I had a 24 oz beer right now with which to drink his health. You do see the what I call Rivendell guys out there too. But they actually kind of stand out dress like bums in their baggy shorts, seersucker shirts, etc. One of them, or a near relation, passed me today at about a 50% speed differential, up a hill. Scruffy lout! I was wearing cycling kit, too! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
Haha I laughed out loud when picturing that On Feb 25, 2015, at 6:58 PM, Doug Williams salg...@minbaritm.com wrote: There are many riders who can NOT conceive of going for a bike ride without their clipless shoes, jersey, the whole kit. How sad! I mean...there isn't anything wrong with wearing your kit to go on a serious bike ride. But for a short ride, you wind up spending more time dressing and undressing than you do riding. Plus, the kit is just stupid for many rides. Example: I'm a bike safety instructor and I teach bike traffic safety, typically to 5-7 grades. We ask for parent volunteers to tag along at the end of a line of 8-12 students. We make it very clear that we will be riding slowly, stopping often for instruction, etc. You would be amazed at how many volunteers show up in full kit and clipped in. They just can't envision an easy ride in regular clothes, no matter how appropriate for the situation. Doug On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 4:20:09 PM UTC-8, Peter M wrote: One way to know your message has really gotten out there is when some people you don't know start to genuinely hate you, hahaha! On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 7:16 PM, Patrick Moore bert...@gmail.com wrote: Brewster Fong bfd...@gmail.com wrote: Btw, for all you paleo lovers, you'll hate this guy! While dropping 30lbs, he still eats like a pig and that includes massive amounts of noodles, rice and bread (hey, a guy's got to carbo load!)... Kudos to him! I wish I had a 24 oz beer right now with which to drink his health. You do see the what I call Rivendell guys out there too. But they actually kind of stand out dress like bums in their baggy shorts, seersucker shirts, etc. One of them, or a near relation, passed me today at about a 50% speed differential, up a hill. Scruffy lout! I was wearing cycling kit, too! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/F-3pQcXcdIw/unsubscribe. To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 6:21:59 AM UTC-8, Jim Bronson wrote: Guilty as charged. In fact I am definitely not an adherent to Grant's thoughts on cycling attire. I'm wearing plum-smuggling cycling shorts every time I ride, unless it's a very, very short ride. But unlike some folks, I don't feel any pressure to conform to the Unracer philosophy. It's just more ideas about how to make cycling more enjoyable and accessible to all Agree. When I ride recreationally with the boys on the weekend and ride between 40-60 miles, I prefer lyrca and jerseys. I also like riding my carbon bike as its very comfortable! :) However, I live in SF And when I commute, it is in street clothes. Since the ride is only 10 miles rt, but with hills coming home, its not too bad. Further, while commuting it seems that most people are in street clothes. You occasionally see a rider in a kit, but mainly it seems like most people commute in street clothes. What's funny is one time, while commuting, I saw a friend stopped at a light in her car. She waved at me as I rode pass. Later, I get an email from her specifically commenting on why I wasn't in spandex (I later corrected her that the proper term is lycra)? I told her that for long rides, spandex works for me. However, for my short commute, street clothes works too and is actually preferable as most people who commute do so in street clothes! Also, on any given Saturday or Sunday morning at the Golden Gate Bridge, the meeting spot for most groups, you see a wide assortment of lycra! Almost everyone is in lycra and riding a CF bike! You do see the what I call Rivendell guys out there too. But they actually kind of stand out dress like bums in their baggy shorts, searsucker shirts, etc. Further, their bikes always look well used with racks and big tires, at least compared to the CF riders. Still, you can tell they're having fun, just like the CF guys. OK, maybe the Riv guys seem to have more fun than the CF guys, as the latter are more serious and ready to get down to business! We just laugh and go at our own speed! Good Luck! On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 7:39 AM, Ron Mc bulld...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: Every day, there are frightful sights in lycra on every bike path On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 2:18:24 AM UTC-6, Peter M wrote: Every runner knows those Damn walkers are just in the way [image: ] Must be winter. On Feb 25, 2015 2:50 AM, 'pb' via RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owne...@ googlegroups.com wrote: On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 8:18:22 PM UTC-8, Doug Williams wrote: pb, Hmmm...I'm glad that you found a few good LBS's, No, I called three, and got three answers. I made three calls. I got three answers. I chose the three because they were representative of three major corporate entities. but have you read a mainstream bicycle magazine recently? I see all sorts of articles and advertisements glorifying racing and bikes so lightweight that they are completely impractical for normal use. I see VERY few articles and advertisements featuring practical and reliable bikes or articles that espouse using a bike for transportation rather than for only racing or exercise. Transportation? What's that? A fun ride that isn't a race? What's that? Do you read Vogue to find articles on dungarees or Harris tweed? Do you read GQ to find out what to wear when gardening? I don't even know what the mainstream bicycle magazines are any more. I do know that Bicycling (does it still exist?) didn't offer a new article, or cover, in twenty years. They just recycled the old ones on a regular basis (Climb better in 30 days! Get faster in 30 days! Prepare for a century in 30 days! Get leaner in 30 days!). I hope you don't pay to read it. Doug, are you confusing magazines with actual journalism? Magazines exist to make money, and they'll print whatever they think will sell copies. Apparently what you think is interesting isn't what they think will sell copies. Does that prove something about your local bicycle shop, or does it just indicate that maybe you're looking at the wrong magazine, which you knew before you picked it up. I don't think that Grant just invented this issue. The phenomena is quite real. Grant's message resonates with many because the racing phenomena IS real. No, Grant didn't invent the issue, but he has fed the flames, and kept it alive, and he has perpetuated a stereotype, and he has offended folks along the way. For no reason. And I assure you that it has affected his bottom line by marginalizing him. Canonize him for that if you wish. And yes, I do (quite often) encounter smug racers in their spandex uniforms who disparage practical cyclists. They are mostly wannabe's and not real racers, of course. But they are numerous and annoying just the same. Oh come on. There are rude
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
I wonder sometimes if the basic image of people getting railroaded into buying a race bike for general riding is still true, if it ever was. Grant compares his bikes to MCFRBs, but a more apt comparison is probably a... hybrid. Big clearances, upright positioning, fenders, racks, etc. And that's mostly what I see people riding when I ride through the local metro park. Yes, the group riders on Saturday morning are all clad in lycra on carbon bikes, but that's just one small group of riders. Yes, those are the bikes they show in Bicycling, but how often can you compare $400 hybrids? I bet if you compared Trek's or Specialized's sales numbers, they would sell many more hybrid bikes than road machines (though they may sell more dollars of road bikes). The Unracer seems like the normal thing, now. Eric Daume Dublin, OH On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 7:57 PM, Jim Bronson jim.bron...@gmail.com wrote: Why? Why, over and over again? Because the racing philosophy has the mainstream and the LBS. And it's not what serves most causal riders best, and I applaud Grant for calling them out for it. We all have seen at the LBS the times when some racerish young LBS employee is trying to fit an older person onto a racerish bike, that will not be well served by said bike. Why is this what's in the mainstream? On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 6:40 PM, 'pb' via RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com wrote: On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 3:25:08 PM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote: Is that the best rhetoric (argument, in the technical sense) the racing crowd could produce? That rather says it all. Sardonic grin. Huh? To what are you referring? What racing crowd? Which argument? Norma Steinberg's comments? If so, what makes you think she represents the racing crowd? Are you being snarky? I would not have expected that from you. Snarky? (Sharply critical; cutting; snide? Was that really your intention, Deacon?) I notice that Grant's letter is much more compromising and middle-ground than he has been in the past, and I commend him for that. What I tried to do ... is offer an alternative. It hurts to be judged. Well, perhaps there would be less judgment from others if there had been less judgment from him along the way (see Norma's last paragraph again). In the past, his language has been rather less soft than in his recent letter, for instance, it's a big fat lie. I don't know about you, but I find that phrase off-putting. Well, that was a long time ago, so I'm not going to dwell. I'm just mentioning that as a contrast. I've said these things before, but here it is again. I'm a big tent cyclist. I was a licensed road racer for almost twenty years, and I've ridden with lots of folks whose names are well known. I *love* old English three-speeds. I really miss the Schwinn New World I used to bomb around the University of Colorado campus on. I've done a good bit of loaded touring and will again. I have owned lots of steel, lots of carbon, and lots of titanium, and I enjoy my Rambouillet as much as I enjoy my Hampsten ti custom and my Merlin Agilis, although I'm currently really smitten by my ti Serotta - Schwinn Paramount. I read the Reader for a number of years, until I stopped, because in each edition, I found some comment from Grant which was openly, unmistakably insulting to the racing crowd. Why? Why, over and over again? Why not just do what he does well, no apology, and let it speak for itself? It suddenly occurs to me that Ritchey and Fisher and Charlie Kelly didn't need to talk about how stupid road riding was when they started mountain biking, and they managed to create a movement that took over the world. They didn't need buttons that said unroadie. They were too busy building and riding and enjoying bikes to be snarky. It's not necessary to say the other guy is stupid to look good. It's much better to just do the do. I've expressed this to Grant, and he has heard it, and he has said all the right things to me, and thank you very much, Grant, you and I are good. I like Grant, and I do appreciate his intentions, but I think that he doesn't always communicate effectively, and I understand why sometimes other folks' hackles get up. You know how humor doesn't always read well on the internet? Kind'a like that. So, let me encourage the Riv listers not to take up the sword, when Grant may have put it down. A self-congratulatory sense of superiority is not charming. And now I'm going to go pull on a pair of lycra shorts, and a cotton polo shirt, and go for a dirt road ride on my Rambouillet. Peter Bridge San Diego -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
One way to know your message has really gotten out there is when some people you don't know start to genuinely hate you, hahaha! On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 7:16 PM, Patrick Moore bertin...@gmail.com wrote: Brewster Fong bfd...@gmail.com wrote: Btw, for all you paleo lovers, you'll hate this guy! While dropping 30lbs, he still eats like a pig and that includes massive amounts of noodles, rice and bread (hey, a guy's got to carbo load!)... Kudos to him! I wish I had a 24 oz beer right now with which to drink his health. You do see the what I call Rivendell guys out there too. But they actually kind of stand out dress like bums in their baggy shorts, seersucker shirts, etc. One of them, or a near relation, passed me today at about a 50% speed differential, up a hill. Scruffy lout! I was wearing cycling kit, too! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
There are many riders who can NOT conceive of going for a bike ride without their clipless shoes, jersey, the whole kit. How sad! I mean...there isn't anything wrong with wearing your kit to go on a serious bike ride. But for a short ride, you wind up spending more time dressing and undressing than you do riding. Plus, the kit is just stupid for many rides. Example: I'm a bike safety instructor and I teach bike traffic safety, typically to 5-7 grades. We ask for parent volunteers to tag along at the end of a line of 8-12 students. We make it very clear that we will be riding slowly, stopping often for instruction, etc. You would be amazed at how many volunteers show up in full kit and clipped in. They just can't envision an easy ride in regular clothes, no matter how appropriate for the situation. Doug On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 4:20:09 PM UTC-8, Peter M wrote: One way to know your message has really gotten out there is when some people you don't know start to genuinely hate you, hahaha! On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 7:16 PM, Patrick Moore bert...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: Brewster Fong bfd...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: Btw, for all you paleo lovers, you'll hate this guy! While dropping 30lbs, he still eats like a pig and that includes massive amounts of noodles, rice and bread (hey, a guy's got to carbo load!)... Kudos to him! I wish I had a 24 oz beer right now with which to drink his health. You do see the what I call Rivendell guys out there too. But they actually kind of stand out dress like bums in their baggy shorts, seersucker shirts, etc. One of them, or a near relation, passed me today at about a 50% speed differential, up a hill. Scruffy lout! I was wearing cycling kit, too! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com javascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
I pictured the children smacking their foreheads in embarrassment for their parents. Now that image makes me laugh. ~Hugh On Feb 25, 2015 5:01 PM, Mark Reimer marknrei...@gmail.com wrote: Haha I laughed out loud when picturing that On Feb 25, 2015, at 6:58 PM, Doug Williams salg...@minbaritm.com wrote: There are many riders who can NOT conceive of going for a bike ride without their clipless shoes, jersey, the whole kit. How sad! I mean...there isn't anything wrong with wearing your kit to go on a serious bike ride. But for a short ride, you wind up spending more time dressing and undressing than you do riding. Plus, the kit is just stupid for many rides. Example: I'm a bike safety instructor and I teach bike traffic safety, typically to 5-7 grades. We ask for parent volunteers to tag along at the end of a line of 8-12 students. We make it very clear that we will be riding slowly, stopping often for instruction, etc. You would be amazed at how many volunteers show up in full kit and clipped in. They just can't envision an easy ride in regular clothes, no matter how appropriate for the situation. Doug On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 4:20:09 PM UTC-8, Peter M wrote: One way to know your message has really gotten out there is when some people you don't know start to genuinely hate you, hahaha! On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 7:16 PM, Patrick Moore bert...@gmail.com wrote: Brewster Fong bfd...@gmail.com wrote: Btw, for all you paleo lovers, you'll hate this guy! While dropping 30lbs, he still eats like a pig and that includes massive amounts of noodles, rice and bread (hey, a guy's got to carbo load!)... Kudos to him! I wish I had a 24 oz beer right now with which to drink his health. You do see the what I call Rivendell guys out there too. But they actually kind of stand out dress like bums in their baggy shorts, seersucker shirts, etc. One of them, or a near relation, passed me today at about a 50% speed differential, up a hill. Scruffy lout! I was wearing cycling kit, too! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/F-3pQcXcdIw/unsubscribe . To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/F-3pQcXcdIw/unsubscribe . To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
Every runner knows those Damn walkers are just in the way Must be winter. On Feb 25, 2015 2:50 AM, 'pb' via RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com wrote: On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 8:18:22 PM UTC-8, Doug Williams wrote: pb, Hmmm...I'm glad that you found a few good LBS's, No, I called three, and got three answers. I made three calls. I got three answers. I chose the three because they were representative of three major corporate entities. but have you read a mainstream bicycle magazine recently? I see all sorts of articles and advertisements glorifying racing and bikes so lightweight that they are completely impractical for normal use. I see VERY few articles and advertisements featuring practical and reliable bikes or articles that espouse using a bike for transportation rather than for only racing or exercise. Transportation? What's that? A fun ride that isn't a race? What's that? Do you read Vogue to find articles on dungarees or Harris tweed? Do you read GQ to find out what to wear when gardening? I don't even know what the mainstream bicycle magazines are any more. I do know that Bicycling (does it still exist?) didn't offer a new article, or cover, in twenty years. They just recycled the old ones on a regular basis (Climb better in 30 days! Get faster in 30 days! Prepare for a century in 30 days! Get leaner in 30 days!). I hope you don't pay to read it. Doug, are you confusing magazines with actual journalism? Magazines exist to make money, and they'll print whatever they think will sell copies. Apparently what you think is interesting isn't what they think will sell copies. Does that prove something about your local bicycle shop, or does it just indicate that maybe you're looking at the wrong magazine, which you knew before you picked it up. I don't think that Grant just invented this issue. The phenomena is quite real. Grant's message resonates with many because the racing phenomena IS real. No, Grant didn't invent the issue, but he has fed the flames, and kept it alive, and he has perpetuated a stereotype, and he has offended folks along the way. For no reason. And I assure you that it has affected his bottom line by marginalizing him. Canonize him for that if you wish. And yes, I do (quite often) encounter smug racers in their spandex uniforms who disparage practical cyclists. They are mostly wannabe's and not real racers, of course. But they are numerous and annoying just the same. Oh come on. There are rude and irritating members of every population group. Do they represent their groups as a whole? See comments about stereotyping. Also, people tend to see what they are looking for. If you are looking for snotty racers, you'll probably find them. Ironically, typing that reminds me of riding into my neighborhood one night from work. My commute ride is about 40 quite hilly miles each way, a solid 2.5 hours, especially after a day of work, and I had ridden both ways that day, leaving the house in the morning at 5:30 (no, I do not do that commute both ways very often). I was on a carbon Look, in lycra, and I had my clothes and shoes and files and a laptop in my Timbuktu. I was riding very tiredly into my development, done for the day, when a fellow in jeans and a plaid shirt went spinning past me on a Surly. He was sitting upright, and he ignored me as he spun past with a grin. I guess he kicked my ass. If it had been me passing him, I would have said hello, because I try to be friendly to other cyclists. Here is my suggestion to you and to Grant: Promote and enjoy the kind of cycling and bicycles that you like, and let those things stand on their own feet. If your LBS sucks and just wants to sell $15,000 Pinarellos and one-piece suits, go to another store, or mail order, but don't tell me that proves every LBS sucks, or that every customer of that LBS is an ass. Don't sneer at other cyclists along the way, or if you do, they may say things like Norma Steinberg said. There is sufficient rudeness and division in our world. Don't perpetuate it. Think about my comment about Ritchey and Fisher and Kelly not needing to belittle roadies to make mountain biking attractive. The opposite happened -- suddenly it was cool to have two bikes! Grant's ideas in Just Ride are fine. Yeah, I've read it -- he sent me a copy, and I have it at my right hand. It's just not necessary for anyone to prove that his ideas are right by proving that someone else's ideas are wrong. Sometimes two ideas can be right at the same time, and to make an idea attractive does not require belittling another idea. You want to go for a run, go for a run. You want to go for a walk, go for a walk. Runners and walkers don't need to call each other stupid or liars. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
I was just going to ask the same thing. If you have followed Grant and Rivendell since 1994 -- heck, if you followed Bridgestone Bicycles USA before that -- you can easily see that Grant has had, I think it is fair to say, more influence in promoting, and making possible, a serious but not racing-bound style of cycling -- bikes, setup, frames, parts, clothing, accessories -- than anyone else I know of. I certainly don't buy in to all his ideas, but I own or have owned 5 Rivendell bicycles and many, many other Rivendell made or Rivendell supplied articles and I know that my own cycling tastes have been largely defined, and certainly made possible, by his influence. The only thing I think cooler than riding in Seersucker and baggy pants and old tennis shoes is riding in old fashioned racing kit; at least wool jerseys and leather shoes and black tights. Patrick just kidding about the last bit Moore On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 2:38 PM, Bill Lindsay tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: Can you share the letter to which Grant was responding? On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 1:08:44 PM UTC-8, Jon in the foothills of Central Colorado wrote: In the new Adventure Cyclist Mag PETERSEN RESPONDS TO READER LETTER ‘UNRACING? UNCOOL’ Racing attitudes, bikes, clothing, and diets have become the norm and normal, and are so pervasive that many adult cyclists, maybe even some you know, accept the racing standards as the only legitimate way to be a serious adult cyclist. What I tried to do in the book *Just Ride *— and what we do here at Rivendell Bicycle Works — is offer an alternative, a model to other adult cyclists that there is another way. This letter is not an ad for either. I’m simply saying where I come from and what I do. We are the mice trying to squeak above the roar at the base of the waterfall. It is no time to be wishywashy, but I try hard to not offend. Inevitably, a declarative position on any matter is bound to raise a few hackles with those who have a different position, but it still hurts to be judged by a stranger who would probably like me, and whom I’d surely like, in person. A good number of our customers are middle-aged and older folks trying to fit in some activity as they age. They often have the means, and they’re influenced by what they read and see that promotes racers as a good model — and that’s something I don’t agree with. They shop as innocents and come out of it dressed like racers and riding bikes that are not only inappropriate for the kind of riding they do, but are, on top of that and more egregiously, not comfortable. We undo that. You may see ego or evil behind it, but I don’t feel either of those. I see racing and racers as fringe and am simply trying to legitimize an alternative point of view, one that I feel strongly about. I’m trying — certainly not singlehandedly — to make people feel good about riding without dressing in pro-team gear and copying so many other affectations of the racer, and that is what Unracing and *Just Ride *and Rivendell Bicycle Works is all about. We’re nobody’s enemy. Some of my best friends pedal cliplessly and in spandex. It’s cool. Grant Petersen Walnut Creek, California -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten * *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu *Kinei hos eromenon. It moves as the being-loved. *Aristotle *The Love that moves the Sun and all the other stars. *Dante -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 7:16:52 PM UTC-8, pb wrote: On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 4:57:32 PM UTC-8, Jim Bronson wrote: Why? Why, over and over again? Because the racing philosophy has the mainstream and the LBS. And it's not what serves most causal riders best, and I applaud Grant for calling them out for it. We all have seen at the LBS the times when some racerish young LBS employee is trying to fit an older person onto a racerish bike, that will not be well served by said bike. Why is this what's in the mainstream? I just got off the phone with three representative LBS's. I asked them all the same thing: I'm going to send my 58-year-old neighbor in to see you. He has average fitness, not bad, hikes on the weekend, hasn't ridden a bike since college. He wants to start riding on weekends, maybe work up riding more regularly. What kind of bike do you think he should look at first? The shops were Black Mountain Bicycles, a large Specialized dealer, the Performance near my house, and the Trek Super Store nearest to my house. All three gave me the same answer: a flat bar road hybrid. None said, well, duh, a racing bicycle, of course, with drop bars three inches below the saddle! Then I asked about what tires would come with the bikes. Both the Trek and Specialized stores said, somewhere between 32 and 38. The guy at Performance said, 28 at the narrowest, but more likely 32 or 35. Two of the three asked if I knew whether my friend had back or neck pain, and both suggested my friend should start off with something pretty upright. The guy at Performance said, well, I'd really have to talk to him to find out what he wants to do with the bike. Obviously Grant's message has trickled down or up (your preference) to your LBS. I think Norma is just being overly sensitive as is the case when someone makes a compelling argument that runs contrary to their paradigm. When trying to get your message out there especially against such a cacophony, at times it's required to make a bold loud statement. The U.S. bike store business practice promotes the race ethos to promote sales period. That practice is not always in the best interest of the people riding bikes for some fitness and pleasure. And yeah Grant is making a living but not to the extent of the multi-billion dollar bike industry. He's a small business supporting a small number of employee's with a positive message. He's not right on all things, but right on what matters. So, are those answers OK with you, Jim? How big a sample do I need to persuade you that stereotyping the industry, LBS's, and a group of cyclists, has the same value as other stereotypes? By the way, do you know what bike shops make the most money on, the largest margins? Rubber and softgoods. If LBS's are as stupid and singleminded as you and, apparently, Grant think they are, and if they are pushing bikes that will make people uncomfortable, tell me, do you think their customers will come back and buy rubber and softgoods? Will their customers be excited about riding, and bring their friends in to buy bikes? People do all sorts of things against there own best interest. Do I think the racerish sale has ever happened? Of course I know that it has. There are poor salespeople, making inappropriate sales, in every industry. However, tarring the bicycle industry, and a significant group of its members, all with the same brush, is not productive, and does not reflect well on the speaker. The whole nonsense of making an entire group of people wrong so that you can feel superior just needs to stop. Dude that's just plain horse***t. You really think that's what Grant is about? He's offering an alternative. And I gotta tell you, I've never heard any of the racer-y people I know say, those people on lugged steel bikes with alba bars sure are stupid and brainwashed. No they mostly just sneer as they pass you! Slow pokes on steel how Victorian! Grin. I refer again to Norma's last paragraph. Clearly, she has gotten an impression about Grant and about his positions, and it's not a positive impression. I'm betting that she is in fact a nice person, and not a stupid one. And, she's a cyclist! However she arrived at her impression of Grant ... well, you draw your own conclusions. Ultimately my conclusion is wear what you wan,t ride what want and listen to who you want! But above all don't get offended and most important be kind. ~Hugh Los Angeles, CA -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
My LBS literally scoffed when I asked if they sold any steel bikes. They said that steel is only on old and Walmart bikes. They had a nice all aluminum Stumpjumper, one of 3 bikes without a CF of suspension fork. So yeah I dont think grant is going all Nero on the bike biz but wants his somewhat outside the mainstream thoughts heard, doesn't seem so complicated to me. On Feb 24, 2015 11:18 PM, Doug Williams salg...@minbaritm.com wrote: pb, Hmmm...I'm glad that you found a few good LBS's, but have you read a mainstream bicycle magazine recently? I see all sorts of articles and advertisements glorifying racing and bikes so lightweight that they are completely impractical for normal use. I see VERY few articles and advertisements featuring practical and reliable bikes or articles that espouse using a bike for transportation rather than for only racing or exercise. Transportation? What's that? A fun ride that isn't a race? What's that? I don't think that Grant just invented this issue. The phenomena is quite real. Grant's message resonates with many because the racing phenomena IS real. And yes, I do (quite often) encounter smug racers in their spandex uniforms who disparage practical cyclists. They are mostly wannabe's and not real racers, of course. But they are numerous and annoying just the same. Doug On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 7:16:52 PM UTC-8, pb wrote: On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 4:57:32 PM UTC-8, Jim Bronson wrote: Why? Why, over and over again? Because the racing philosophy has the mainstream and the LBS. And it's not what serves most causal riders best, and I applaud Grant for calling them out for it. We all have seen at the LBS the times when some racerish young LBS employee is trying to fit an older person onto a racerish bike, that will not be well served by said bike. Why is this what's in the mainstream? I just got off the phone with three representative LBS's. I asked them all the same thing: I'm going to send my 58-year-old neighbor in to see you. He has average fitness, not bad, hikes on the weekend, hasn't ridden a bike since college. He wants to start riding on weekends, maybe work up riding more regularly. What kind of bike do you think he should look at first? The shops were Black Mountain Bicycles, a large Specialized dealer, the Performance near my house, and the Trek Super Store nearest to my house. All three gave me the same answer: a flat bar road hybrid. None said, well, duh, a racing bicycle, of course, with drop bars three inches below the saddle! Then I asked about what tires would come with the bikes. Both the Trek and Specialized stores said, somewhere between 32 and 38. The guy at Performance said, 28 at the narrowest, but more likely 32 or 35. Two of the three asked if I knew whether my friend had back or neck pain, and both suggested my friend should start off with something pretty upright. The guy at Performance said, well, I'd really have to talk to him to find out what he wants to do with the bike. So, are those answers OK with you, Jim? How big a sample do I need to persuade you that stereotyping the industry, LBS's, and a group of cyclists, has the same value as other stereotypes? By the way, do you know what bike shops make the most money on, the largest margins? Rubber and softgoods. If LBS's are as stupid and singleminded as you and, apparently, Grant think they are, and if they are pushing bikes that will make people uncomfortable, tell me, do you think their customers will come back and buy rubber and softgoods? Will their customers be excited about riding, and bring their friends in to buy bikes? Do I think the racerish sale has ever happened? Of course I know that it has. There are poor salespeople, making inappropriate sales, in every industry. However, tarring the bicycle industry, and a significant group of its members, all with the same brush, is not productive, and does not reflect well on the speaker. The whole nonsense of making an entire group of people wrong so that you can feel superior just needs to stop. And I gotta tell you, I've never heard any of the racer-y people I know say, those people on lugged steel bikes with alba bars sure are stupid and brainwashed. I refer again to Norma's last paragraph. Clearly, she has gotten an impression about Grant and about his positions, and it's not a positive impression. I'm betting that she is in fact a nice person, and not a stupid one. And, she's a cyclist! However she arrived at her impression of Grant ... well, you draw your own conclusions. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
Agreed, Jim. Grant's intention with Just Ride was to make an aggressive statement about the legitimacy of cycling that is not racing. He clearly felt that the benefits of this aggression outweighed the risk of alienating some individuals. I fully agree. Making a few people peeved about bike stuff isn't really going to hurt the world in any way. But making other people aware of some great ideas about ways they can have a nice time on a bike can only help the world. -Jim W. On Feb 24, 2015, at 4:57 PM, Jim Bronson wrote: Why? Why, over and over again? Because the racing philosophy has the mainstream and the LBS. And it's not what serves most causal riders best, and I applaud Grant for calling them out for it. We all have seen at the LBS the times when some racerish young LBS employee is trying to fit an older person onto a racerish bike, that will not be well served by said bike. Why is this what's in the mainstream? On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 6:40 PM, 'pb' via RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com wrote: On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 3:25:08 PM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote: Is that the best rhetoric (argument, in the technical sense) the racing crowd could produce? That rather says it all. Sardonic grin. Huh? To what are you referring? What racing crowd? Which argument? Norma Steinberg's comments? If so, what makes you think she represents the racing crowd? Are you being snarky? I would not have expected that from you. Snarky? (Sharply critical; cutting; snide? Was that really your intention, Deacon?) I notice that Grant's letter is much more compromising and middle-ground than he has been in the past, and I commend him for that. What I tried to do ... is offer an alternative. It hurts to be judged. Well, perhaps there would be less judgment from others if there had been less judgment from him along the way (see Norma's last paragraph again). In the past, his language has been rather less soft than in his recent letter, for instance, it's a big fat lie. I don't know about you, but I find that phrase off-putting. Well, that was a long time ago, so I'm not going to dwell. I'm just mentioning that as a contrast. I've said these things before, but here it is again. I'm a big tent cyclist. I was a licensed road racer for almost twenty years, and I've ridden with lots of folks whose names are well known. I love old English three-speeds. I really miss the Schwinn New World I used to bomb around the University of Colorado campus on. I've done a good bit of loaded touring and will again. I have owned lots of steel, lots of carbon, and lots of titanium, and I enjoy my Rambouillet as much as I enjoy my Hampsten ti custom and my Merlin Agilis, although I'm currently really smitten by my ti Serotta - Schwinn Paramount. I read the Reader for a number of years, until I stopped, because in each edition, I found some comment from Grant which was openly, unmistakably insulting to the racing crowd. Why? Why, over and over again? Why not just do what he does well, no apology, and let it speak for itself? It suddenly occurs to me that Ritchey and Fisher and Charlie Kelly didn't need to talk about how stupid road riding was when they started mountain biking, and they managed to create a movement that took over the world. They didn't need buttons that said unroadie. They were too busy building and riding and enjoying bikes to be snarky. It's not necessary to say the other guy is stupid to look good. It's much better to just do the do. I've expressed this to Grant, and he has heard it, and he has said all the right things to me, and thank you very much, Grant, you and I are good. I like Grant, and I do appreciate his intentions, but I think that he doesn't always communicate effectively, and I understand why sometimes other folks' hackles get up. You know how humor doesn't always read well on the internet? Kind'a like that. So, let me encourage the Riv listers not to take up the sword, when Grant may have put it down. A self-congratulatory sense of superiority is not charming. And now I'm going to go pull on a pair of lycra shorts, and a cotton polo shirt, and go for a dirt road ride on my Rambouillet. Peter Bridge San Diego -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Keep the metal side up and the rubber side down! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
Well, it's not nearly as eloquent as Grant's response, but she does make a few valid points. I say that as a long time fan of the bstone, and now Riv, mode of riding. 20+ years riding certainly does give one the opportunity to develop a good B.S detector about the various industry factions and marketing hype that emerges, dies, and then reemerges. One need only peruse my blog to see the various rides and bikes and equipment I find most useful. Cheers, Addison Wilhite, M.A. Academy of Arts, Careers and Technology http://www.washoeschools.net/aact *“Blazing the Trail to College and Career Success”* Educator: Professional Portfolio http://addisonwilhite.blogspot.com/ Blogger: Reno Rambler http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com/ Bicycle Advocate: Regional Transportation Commission, Bicycle Pedestrian Advisory Committee http://www.rtcwashoe.com/public-transportation-22-124.html On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 2:38 PM, Romel Jacinto peng...@techbandit.com wrote: On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 1:52:46 PM UTC-8, WETH wrote: The letter Grant responds to was published in the February 2015 issue on page 9 in response to an October/November 2014 article about Grant. I can't get my iPad to copy and paste the letter. Hopefully someone else will. Here's the letter in Adventure Cycling, Feb 15 issue that Grant is responding to. UNRACING? UNCOOL. Dan D’Ambrosio’s article about Grant Petersen (October/November 2014) neglected to mention his recent book, Just Ride, which should be titled: Just Ride (But Only My Way), in which a cyclist is either a racer or an “unracer,” and states that if you’re not a racer you shouldn’t wear Lycra, use clipless pedals, or ride a road bike. Why? Because you’re not a racer and also because his store doesn’t sell Lycra or the cycling apparel you see on bike tours or other organized rides. He prefers wool and cotton, but the really important thing is that we all need to encourage cycling without judging anyone’s attire or bikes. Turn the page and the article by Ellee Thalheimer is “Womantours,” an inspiring piece about women touring together. Guess what your photograph shows? A strong woman in Lycra shorts and a bike jersey. Grant would object because she’s an “unracer.” If he truly wanted everyone to “Just Ride,” he wouldn’t care what they wore or whether or not they rode with skinny tires. Too bad that someone with his background and skill uses his knowledge to castigate cyclists who don’t conform to his ideas of what we “should” be doing. Grant needs to learn that we “unracers” can buy all the gear he says we don’t need, enjoy ourselves on our bikes, and not judge others who wear the wool and cotton gear he sells. Just ride! Norma Steinberg | Queens, New York -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant sets them straight with letter to editor
Why? Why, over and over again? Because the racing philosophy has the mainstream and the LBS. And it's not what serves most causal riders best, and I applaud Grant for calling them out for it. We all have seen at the LBS the times when some racerish young LBS employee is trying to fit an older person onto a racerish bike, that will not be well served by said bike. Why is this what's in the mainstream? On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 6:40 PM, 'pb' via RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com wrote: On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 3:25:08 PM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote: Is that the best rhetoric (argument, in the technical sense) the racing crowd could produce? That rather says it all. Sardonic grin. Huh? To what are you referring? What racing crowd? Which argument? Norma Steinberg's comments? If so, what makes you think she represents the racing crowd? Are you being snarky? I would not have expected that from you. Snarky? (Sharply critical; cutting; snide? Was that really your intention, Deacon?) I notice that Grant's letter is much more compromising and middle-ground than he has been in the past, and I commend him for that. What I tried to do ... is offer an alternative. It hurts to be judged. Well, perhaps there would be less judgment from others if there had been less judgment from him along the way (see Norma's last paragraph again). In the past, his language has been rather less soft than in his recent letter, for instance, it's a big fat lie. I don't know about you, but I find that phrase off-putting. Well, that was a long time ago, so I'm not going to dwell. I'm just mentioning that as a contrast. I've said these things before, but here it is again. I'm a big tent cyclist. I was a licensed road racer for almost twenty years, and I've ridden with lots of folks whose names are well known. I *love* old English three-speeds. I really miss the Schwinn New World I used to bomb around the University of Colorado campus on. I've done a good bit of loaded touring and will again. I have owned lots of steel, lots of carbon, and lots of titanium, and I enjoy my Rambouillet as much as I enjoy my Hampsten ti custom and my Merlin Agilis, although I'm currently really smitten by my ti Serotta - Schwinn Paramount. I read the Reader for a number of years, until I stopped, because in each edition, I found some comment from Grant which was openly, unmistakably insulting to the racing crowd. Why? Why, over and over again? Why not just do what he does well, no apology, and let it speak for itself? It suddenly occurs to me that Ritchey and Fisher and Charlie Kelly didn't need to talk about how stupid road riding was when they started mountain biking, and they managed to create a movement that took over the world. They didn't need buttons that said unroadie. They were too busy building and riding and enjoying bikes to be snarky. It's not necessary to say the other guy is stupid to look good. It's much better to just do the do. I've expressed this to Grant, and he has heard it, and he has said all the right things to me, and thank you very much, Grant, you and I are good. I like Grant, and I do appreciate his intentions, but I think that he doesn't always communicate effectively, and I understand why sometimes other folks' hackles get up. You know how humor doesn't always read well on the internet? Kind'a like that. So, let me encourage the Riv listers not to take up the sword, when Grant may have put it down. A self-congratulatory sense of superiority is not charming. And now I'm going to go pull on a pair of lycra shorts, and a cotton polo shirt, and go for a dirt road ride on my Rambouillet. Peter Bridge San Diego -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Keep the metal side up and the rubber side down! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.