Re: [RBW] Re: Nine Speed Index Setup

[Matt C.]

Tandem cable tension can be difficult to navigate as to what works when 
actually riding VS in the stand. I worked for a company that owned 6 rental 
tandems with trigger shifters. They weren't high quality shifters either, so 
tuning them perfectly always seemed somewhat of an impossibility. I found that 
the indexing always works better when the cable is slightly looser than a 
normal bike. Also I open up the low cog a bit more (maybe half turn on the 
adjustment screw). This meant it would jump into the low without an ultra tight 
cable and conversely would also drop back into the highs easily. 

Matt
Bristol, R.I. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Nine Speed Index Setup

[Steve Palincsar]

On 07/05/2016 06:18 AM, Michael Hechmer wrote:
Over the long weekend we finally got out on the tandem and in the 
hills to test my work on the indexing.  It worked well in the shop but 
only so so on the road.  I did half the ride in index mode and half in 
friction and we (stoker & I) definitely liked the friction mode 
better.  The indexing only failed to shift once and seemed to be going 
into all the gears, but the hesitation, especially when dropping the 
chain downward, sometimes felt interminable.  I would click the bar 
end then wait and think, "the damn thing didn't move."  Except I was 
thinking in anglo-sexan!  In contrast the friction mode moved quickly, 
quietly, and consistently across the cassette.


Hesitation in upshifting is usually due to excess cable tension.



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Re: [RBW] Re: Nine Speed Index Setup

[Michael Hechmer]

Over the long weekend we finally got out on the tandem and in the hills to 
test my work on the indexing.  It worked well in the shop but only so so on 
the road.  I did half the ride in index mode and half in friction and we 
(stoker & I) definitely liked the friction mode better.  The indexing only 
failed to shift once and seemed to be going into all the gears, but the 
hesitation, especially when dropping the chain downward, sometimes felt 
interminable.  I would click the bar end then wait and think, "the damn 
thing didn't move."  Except I was thinking in anglo-sexan!  In contrast the 
friction mode moved quickly, quietly, and consistently across the cassette.

As an aside, during this time, I looked into converting to a Rohloff sytem 
but found that the companies utter lack of customer focus made this a near 
impossibility.

Michael

On Thursday, June 23, 2016 at 4:42:14 PM UTC-4, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> Yep, all I would need would be the extra long version of the silver 
> shifters
>
> On Thursday, June 23, 2016 at 10:30:22 AM UTC-4, Shoji Takahashi wrote:
>>
>> Hey Scott,
>> With a set of Boscos, that tandem-as-solo will fit him just fine! Long 
>> chain stays when you need 'em (sit as pilot); short chain stays when you 
>> need to pop wheelies (sit as stoker). 
>>
>> happy riding,
>> shoji
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, June 23, 2016 at 8:00:36 AM UTC-4, Skenry wrote:
>>>
>>> Ha, here is a photo of my son riding our tandem solo.
>>> But from the back seat.
>>>
>>> If you can see instgram photos...
>>> https://www.instagram.com/p/2XFCNvINiK/?taken-by=skenry=en
>>>
>>> Scott
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 6:27 PM, Steve Palincsar  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>


 In fact, a month or so after I first got a tandem, we were on Marthas 
 Vineyard.  I was riding with my daughter as child stoker, and we stopped 
 for a minute.  I didn't know it, but she climbed down (getting up to the 
 saddle was a bit like climbing up monkey bars for her) while my attention 
 was elsewhere.  I started off riding, and next thing there she is running 
 down the road next to the bike yelling at me to stop.  It took many years 
 before I lived that one down...



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Re: [RBW] Re: Nine Speed Index Setup

[Michael Hechmer]

Yep, all I would need would be the extra long version of the silver shifters

On Thursday, June 23, 2016 at 10:30:22 AM UTC-4, Shoji Takahashi wrote:
>
> Hey Scott,
> With a set of Boscos, that tandem-as-solo will fit him just fine! Long 
> chain stays when you need 'em (sit as pilot); short chain stays when you 
> need to pop wheelies (sit as stoker). 
>
> happy riding,
> shoji
>
>
> On Thursday, June 23, 2016 at 8:00:36 AM UTC-4, Skenry wrote:
>>
>> Ha, here is a photo of my son riding our tandem solo.
>> But from the back seat.
>>
>> If you can see instgram photos...
>> https://www.instagram.com/p/2XFCNvINiK/?taken-by=skenry=en
>>
>> Scott
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 6:27 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In fact, a month or so after I first got a tandem, we were on Marthas 
>>> Vineyard.  I was riding with my daughter as child stoker, and we stopped 
>>> for a minute.  I didn't know it, but she climbed down (getting up to the 
>>> saddle was a bit like climbing up monkey bars for her) while my attention 
>>> was elsewhere.  I started off riding, and next thing there she is running 
>>> down the road next to the bike yelling at me to stop.  It took many years 
>>> before I lived that one down...
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Nine Speed Index Setup

[Shoji Takahashi]

Hey Scott,
With a set of Boscos, that tandem-as-solo will fit him just fine! Long 
chain stays when you need 'em (sit as pilot); short chain stays when you 
need to pop wheelies (sit as stoker). 

happy riding,
shoji


On Thursday, June 23, 2016 at 8:00:36 AM UTC-4, Skenry wrote:
>
> Ha, here is a photo of my son riding our tandem solo.
> But from the back seat.
>
> If you can see instgram photos...
> https://www.instagram.com/p/2XFCNvINiK/?taken-by=skenry=en
>
> Scott
>
> On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 6:27 PM, Steve Palincsar  > wrote:
>
>
>>
>>
>> In fact, a month or so after I first got a tandem, we were on Marthas 
>> Vineyard.  I was riding with my daughter as child stoker, and we stopped 
>> for a minute.  I didn't know it, but she climbed down (getting up to the 
>> saddle was a bit like climbing up monkey bars for her) while my attention 
>> was elsewhere.  I started off riding, and next thing there she is running 
>> down the road next to the bike yelling at me to stop.  It took many years 
>> before I lived that one down...
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Nine Speed Index Setup

[Scott Henry]

Ha, here is a photo of my son riding our tandem solo.
But from the back seat.

If you can see instgram photos...
https://www.instagram.com/p/2XFCNvINiK/?taken-by=skenry=en

Scott

On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 6:27 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:


>
>
> In fact, a month or so after I first got a tandem, we were on Marthas
> Vineyard.  I was riding with my daughter as child stoker, and we stopped
> for a minute.  I didn't know it, but she climbed down (getting up to the
> saddle was a bit like climbing up monkey bars for her) while my attention
> was elsewhere.  I started off riding, and next thing there she is running
> down the road next to the bike yelling at me to stop.  It took many years
> before I lived that one down...
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Nine Speed Index Setup

[Steve Palincsar]

On 06/22/2016 06:12 PM, Michael Hechmer wrote:


My stoker is at a Quilt Festival for the week so I wont be able to 
road test it until Monday or so.  Look for another post then


It's perfectly possible to ride a tandem without the stoker, certainly 
for long enough to road test a shifter.


In fact, a month or so after I first got a tandem, we were on Marthas 
Vineyard.  I was riding with my daughter as child stoker, and we stopped 
for a minute.  I didn't know it, but she climbed down (getting up to the 
saddle was a bit like climbing up monkey bars for her) while my 
attention was elsewhere.  I started off riding, and next thing there she 
is running down the road next to the bike yelling at me to stop.  It 
took many years before I lived that one down...



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Re: [RBW] Re: Nine Speed Index Setup

[Michael Hechmer]

Success, at least I hope so.  I haven't road tested it, but it seems to be 
working in the shop.  My suspicion had fallen on the shifter but decided to 
double check the housing, as Mark had suggested.  I disconnected the RD and 
slid the cable back and forth.  It moved smoothly.  Then I tried the 
shifter and realized it too moved more smoothly without any tension on it. 
 Looking at the housing again, I decided it looked too short, with too 
tight a bend.  When I rebuilt the bike I bought a long length of housing 
and then cut two pieces to run from the shifter under the front rack to the 
cable stop.  I didn't leave myself quite enough for the rear.  I went and 
bought a foot of housing and a new cable.  After that it took a lot of 
tweeking  on the tension screw to get it to work.  There appears to be only 
one point where it will go up and down and both the top and bottom of the 
cluster, but not always with the same crispness.  

My stoker is at a Quilt Festival for the week so I wont be able to road 
test it until Monday or so.  Look for another post then.

Michael

On Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 3:00:34 PM UTC-4, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I don't think it was mentioned, but check your derailer hanger 
> alignment. Could be off a touch and wouldn't be noticed in friction 
> mode. 
>
> On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 8:21 AM, NickBull  > wrote: 
> > Try turning the cable adjuster at the derailleur a couple or three 
> clicks 
> > clockwise (as you look down it toward the derailleur).  Does that make 
> it so 
> > that shifts to a higher gear (smaller sprocket) go smoothly but shifts 
> to a 
> > lower gear (bigger sprocket) are unsmooth and require overshifting to 
> get 
> > the chain to climb up to the bigger cog?  That's how shifting is on my 
> > tandem--no hesitation shifting to smaller cogs, some hesitation 
> requiring a 
> > slight-bit of overshifting to get to bigger cogs, but once you let go of 
> the 
> > shift lever the chain stays on the bigger cog and won't "ghost shift" to 
> a 
> > smaller cog. 
> > 
> > 
> > On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 7:32:28 PM UTC-4, Michael Hechmer wrote: 
> >> 
> >> To be clear.  The index shifting lifts the chain from 11 to 28 very 
> >> successfully, but when I try to drop the change from the 28 to the 24 
> and 
> >> then to a 21 it hangs up and then jumps cogs. 
> >> 
> >> I intend to disconnect the derailler and slide the rear cable housing 
> >> around looking for a hang up.  However I will be surprised to find that 
> is 
> >> the problem because I am pretty careful to both file the housing and 
> open it 
> >> with an awl. 
> >> 
> >> My trip to my favorite mechanic yielded a number of suggestions: 
> >> Check the pulleys for side to side play and for ware.  The former, 
> >> especially, will throw indexing out of whack.  I did this and found no 
> side 
> >> to side play but still need to get a new pair of pulleys out to look at 
> the 
> >> difference. 
> >> Adjust the B screw.  The closed position may actually be too tight. 
>  This 
> >> too does not seem to be the problem. 
> >> My cassette does not need replacing. 
> >> Use a Shimano chain.  I think it is unlikely that a Connex 9 spd chain 
> >> works less well than a Shimano. 
> >> The shifter itself may be worn.  If it's really bad you can feel it, 
> but 
> >> it seems to me that it is very possible that one part of the shifter is 
> worn 
> >> enough to throw everything else out of alignment. 
> >> We agreed that the length of the cable (I actually have three cables, 
> with 
> >> a splitter at each S coupler to simplify disassembly)  stretches the 
> >> limits of friction shifting. 
> >> 
> >> I intend to road test the system but it increasingly looks like I will 
> >> find it easier to stay with friction.  I think I have a little room to 
> move 
> >> from a 48 to  a 50 ring without needing to change the derailler, 
> cassette, 
> >> or shifters. 
> >> 
> >> I hope I am not discouraging anyone from trying a tandem; they are 
> great 
> >> fun in spite of the extra challenges. 
> >> 
> >> Michael 
> >> 
> >> On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 5:06:53 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote: 
> >>> 
> >>> In my humble opinion, NickBull is on the right track.  The symptoms 
> >>> described are 100% consistent with this description 
> >>> 
> >>> On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 1:44:42 PM UTC-7, NickBull wrote: 
>  
>  My stoker and I have ridden over 11,000 miles (mostly randonneuring 
>  miles in hilly/mountainous terrain) with 9-speed indexed (bar-end) 
> shifting 
>  (Deore RD), a Sugino 24/36/48 crankset and SRam 11x34 cassette.  The 
> 48-11 
>  combo is high enough, once you get over 30 miles an hour you may as 
> well 
>  tuck.  The 24-34 is low enough for almost any grade you'll encounter. 
>  I 
>  never have problems with downshifts, but for upshifts have to shift 
> slightly 
>  past the "click" wait until I hear/feel that the derailleur has 
> 

Re: [RBW] Re: Nine Speed Index Setup

[cyclotourist]

I don't think it was mentioned, but check your derailer hanger
alignment. Could be off a touch and wouldn't be noticed in friction
mode.

On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 8:21 AM, NickBull  wrote:
> Try turning the cable adjuster at the derailleur a couple or three clicks
> clockwise (as you look down it toward the derailleur).  Does that make it so
> that shifts to a higher gear (smaller sprocket) go smoothly but shifts to a
> lower gear (bigger sprocket) are unsmooth and require overshifting to get
> the chain to climb up to the bigger cog?  That's how shifting is on my
> tandem--no hesitation shifting to smaller cogs, some hesitation requiring a
> slight-bit of overshifting to get to bigger cogs, but once you let go of the
> shift lever the chain stays on the bigger cog and won't "ghost shift" to a
> smaller cog.
>
>
> On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 7:32:28 PM UTC-4, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>>
>> To be clear.  The index shifting lifts the chain from 11 to 28 very
>> successfully, but when I try to drop the change from the 28 to the 24 and
>> then to a 21 it hangs up and then jumps cogs.
>>
>> I intend to disconnect the derailler and slide the rear cable housing
>> around looking for a hang up.  However I will be surprised to find that is
>> the problem because I am pretty careful to both file the housing and open it
>> with an awl.
>>
>> My trip to my favorite mechanic yielded a number of suggestions:
>> Check the pulleys for side to side play and for ware.  The former,
>> especially, will throw indexing out of whack.  I did this and found no side
>> to side play but still need to get a new pair of pulleys out to look at the
>> difference.
>> Adjust the B screw.  The closed position may actually be too tight.  This
>> too does not seem to be the problem.
>> My cassette does not need replacing.
>> Use a Shimano chain.  I think it is unlikely that a Connex 9 spd chain
>> works less well than a Shimano.
>> The shifter itself may be worn.  If it's really bad you can feel it, but
>> it seems to me that it is very possible that one part of the shifter is worn
>> enough to throw everything else out of alignment.
>> We agreed that the length of the cable (I actually have three cables, with
>> a splitter at each S coupler to simplify disassembly)  stretches the
>> limits of friction shifting.
>>
>> I intend to road test the system but it increasingly looks like I will
>> find it easier to stay with friction.  I think I have a little room to move
>> from a 48 to  a 50 ring without needing to change the derailler, cassette,
>> or shifters.
>>
>> I hope I am not discouraging anyone from trying a tandem; they are great
>> fun in spite of the extra challenges.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 5:06:53 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
>>> In my humble opinion, NickBull is on the right track.  The symptoms
>>> described are 100% consistent with this description
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 1:44:42 PM UTC-7, NickBull wrote:

 My stoker and I have ridden over 11,000 miles (mostly randonneuring
 miles in hilly/mountainous terrain) with 9-speed indexed (bar-end) shifting
 (Deore RD), a Sugino 24/36/48 crankset and SRam 11x34 cassette.  The 48-11
 combo is high enough, once you get over 30 miles an hour you may as well
 tuck.  The 24-34 is low enough for almost any grade you'll encounter.  I
 never have problems with downshifts, but for upshifts have to shift 
 slightly
 past the "click" wait until I hear/feel that the derailleur has shifted 
 then
 let the shift lever fall back to the click.  I suspect that you may have
 some cable drag, but it may also be that you've optimized the shifting for
 upshifts and that's making it "hang" on the downshifts.

 Nick


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David

Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace

"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal

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Re: [RBW] Re: Nine Speed Index Setup

[Jack K]

Hey RBW-folk,

I'm re-cockpitting my older Bilenky tandem today, going from an 8 speed 
bar-end shifted setup to 9 speed Shimano cassette/RD, shifted by 11 speed 
Campy Athena Ergo levers in a pretty classic Shimergo setup. This will be 
my first time doing anything with Ergopower levers, please wish me luck for 
an easy install! As part of this update I'm also installing cable splitters 
(as used on S coupled bikes) to allow use of easily obtainable half-bike 
length Campy headed cables. I assume one could use this same technique to 
install those latest Dura-Ace Polymer coated cables on a tandem as well. 

BTW, I was just investigating those Polymer coated cables online yesterday. 
They get extremely favorable reviews (for what that's worth) and at least 
appear to be a genuine improvement in cable slipperyness.

Cheers and safe riding!

-Jack

Raleigh, NC 

On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 4:31:27 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Similar to Patrick Moore, I took some advice and splurged on super high 
> end coated Dura Ace shift cables for my next build.  Like PM I can't 
> comment on whether or not they are better, or how much better.  It will be 
> a 10sp index setup.  
>
> I'll point out that our man Michael has a tandem, though, and AFAIK there 
> is no Dura Ace tandem length rear der cable.  So PM's anecdotes and mine 
> will not be germane to Michael's issue.  I agree with Mark and Rene that 
> Michael's description of symptoms is 100% consistent with a cable friction 
> issue.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 12:24:43 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> With the full-length housing for the BB7s and the 9 sp friction shifting 
>> system on the Matthews, I splurged and bought high end Dura Ace brake and 
>> derailleur wires, upon the advice of the shop that said they do make a 
>> difference. I haven't yet installed them yet, and can't pronounce on their 
>> efficacy, but the OP might want to consider such top end cable at least for 
>> his rear derailleur.
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Nine Speed Index Setup

[Bill Lindsay]

Similar to Patrick Moore, I took some advice and splurged on super high end 
coated Dura Ace shift cables for my next build.  Like PM I can't comment on 
whether or not they are better, or how much better.  It will be a 10sp 
index setup.  

I'll point out that our man Michael has a tandem, though, and AFAIK there 
is no Dura Ace tandem length rear der cable.  So PM's anecdotes and mine 
will not be germane to Michael's issue.  I agree with Mark and Rene that 
Michael's description of symptoms is 100% consistent with a cable friction 
issue.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 12:24:43 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> With the full-length housing for the BB7s and the 9 sp friction shifting 
> system on the Matthews, I splurged and bought high end Dura Ace brake and 
> derailleur wires, upon the advice of the shop that said they do make a 
> difference. I haven't yet installed them yet, and can't pronounce on their 
> efficacy, but the OP might want to consider such top end cable at least for 
> his rear derailleur.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Nine Speed Index Setup

[Mark Reimer]

I have full length housing for my Paul Klamper disc brakes and Dura Ace bar
end shifters with full length housing. The included JagWire cables had too
much drag in the housing to enable the Klampers to fully open no matter how
I routed the housing. I put in some MEC-branded teflon cables (Canadian
equivalent to REI) and presto, perfect brakes and shifting.

On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 2:26 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:

> Rene may be onto something with the 9-speed bar-end and long/finicky cable
> routing. I had the same problem on my Bike Friday and couldn't adjust it
> out, either.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Nine Speed Index Setup

[Joe Bernard]

Rene may be onto something with the 9-speed bar-end and long/finicky cable 
routing. I had the same problem on my Bike Friday and couldn't adjust it out, 
either. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Nine Speed Index Setup

[Patrick Moore]

With the full-length housing for the BB7s and the 9 sp friction shifting
system on the Matthews, I splurged and bought high end Dura Ace brake and
derailleur wires, upon the advice of the shop that said they do make a
difference. I haven't yet installed them yet, and can't pronounce on their
efficacy, but the OP might want to consider such top end cable at least for
his rear derailleur.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Nine Speed Index Setup

[Michael Hechmer]

The cables and housing are brand new, put on after the frame repaint in 
April. They have a wide loop under the front rack and I was very careful 
with the cut ends, so I doubt that is the problem.  The RD is  an Ultegra 
6700, a road derailler.  When we first got the bike we started with a  used 
54/42/26, a 12/32 cassette, and an XT derailler.  I was never happy with 
either the front or rear shifting. Moving from a 26 to a 54 is 4 teeth out 
of spec for any road FD I know of.  So after a year and a half I bought a 
pair of TA rings  - 48/38 and the smaller cassette and derailler, and an 
Ace chain catcher in the front.  I think that's when I went back to 
friction.  Since then the front shifting has been excellent and until 
recently the rear friction pretty good.

I'm going to take the cassette to my favorite mechanic and get his opinion 
on its wear.

Michael

On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 2:41:55 PM UTC-4, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>
> On 06/21/2016 08:48 AM, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
>
> As I posted on the tandem discussion "tandems create the worst possible 
> case for shifting.  They have long cables that stretch a lot;  the captain 
> & stoker may have difficulty coordinating pedal pressure during shifting; 
> they require a higher hi gear because its easy to spin out and they require 
> a lower low gear because they don't climb as effectively as a single. 
>  Finally the captain and stoker often prefer different cadences making big 
> jumps between gears hard to satisfy both riders."  So in order to solve 
> some of these problems I am thinking about moving from a 9 speed 48/38/26 & 
> 11/28 to  a 52/38/28 with a 10 speed 11/30 or 32.
>
>
> 54 x 12 makes a very sweet tandem top gear.  I'm personally not persuaded 
> anything more recent betters the old XTR 8 spd 12-32 for tandem use, esp. 
> when mated with a triple with a 54 x 42 x 26, giving you gearing like this:
>
> 120.4 93.7 58.0 
> 103.2 80.3 49.7 
> 90.3 70.2 43.5 
> 80.3 62.4 38.7 
> 68.8 53.5 33.1 
> 60.2 46.8 29.0 
> 51.6 40.1 24.8 
> 45.2 35.1 21.7 
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Nine Speed Index Setup

[Mark Reimer]

Scott, an easy work-around for that is using 10 speed road shifters and 9
speed mountain derailleurs. I'm running that on two bikes. Works 100%
perfectly. One bike has 10sp Dura Ace bar ends mated to an old XTR M950
derailleur. The other to an XT M772.

On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 11:33 AM, Scott McLain 
wrote:

> Be careful going to ten speed.  Remember that 9-speed shimano road works
> with 9-speed shimano mountain.  But with ten speed it does not.  I would
> stick with 9-speed.  If you go to 10-speed mountain cassette, you can use
> your same deraileur (probably) but you will need to get the micro-shift
> mountain bar ends.  This what surly is building their new LHT with.
>
> There are great youtube videos out there on how to adjust your rear
> derailleur.  I think your cable just needs adjusted.
>
> Scott
>
> On Monday, June 20, 2016 at 4:05:25 PM UTC-6, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>>
>> Ok, this is a bit off topic, my apologies, but I am perplexed.
>>
>> I run 9 speed silver friction shifter on all of my bikes except the
>> tandem, which has Shimano bar ends.  I usually run it in friction, mostly
>> because I don't have regular experience with indexing and when they need
>> adjustment, I struggle until I say, oh the hell with it.  But I have been
>> trying to get this indexing right because I am thinking I want to try 10
>> speed on this bike.  So here's what's happening.
>>
>> I can lift the chain from the outside 11 to the inside 28 in consistent
>> steps, but when I try to drop the chain it hangs up for an extra click
>> right at the start  and then jumps across the 12 to the 11 at the end.
>> Occasionally, it will jump from the 9 to the 7 position on the second
>> click.   Everything works OK in friction mode, although the 9 to 8 did seem
>> a bit wider, so I tightened the low set screw until the chain would just
>> barely reach, then backed it out a couple of degrees.  This made no
>> difference.  It just occurred to me that I have not measured the chain, but
>> it's hard to see how that could cause this behavior.
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>> Hot, even in VT.
>>
>> Michael
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Nine Speed Index Setup

[Steve Palincsar]

On 06/21/2016 08:48 AM, Michael Hechmer wrote:


As I posted on the tandem discussion "tandems create the worst 
possible case for shifting.  They have long cables that stretch a lot; 
 the captain & stoker may have difficulty coordinating pedal pressure 
during shifting; they require a higher hi gear because its easy to 
spin out and they require a lower low gear because they don't climb as 
effectively as a single.  Finally the captain and stoker often prefer 
different cadences making big jumps between gears hard to satisfy both 
riders."  So in order to solve some of these problems I am thinking 
about moving from a 9 speed 48/38/26 & 11/28 to  a 52/38/28 with a 10 
speed 11/30 or 32.




54 x 12 makes a very sweet tandem top gear.  I'm personally not 
persuaded anything more recent betters the old XTR 8 spd 12-32 for 
tandem use, esp. when mated with a triple with a 54 x 42 x 26, giving 
you gearing like this:


120.4   93.758.0
103.2   80.349.7
90.370.243.5
80.362.438.7
68.853.533.1
60.246.829.0
51.640.124.8
45.235.121.7




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