subject:"Re\: \[RBW\] Re\: Roaduno and the state of single speed bikes"

Re: [RBW] Re: Roaduno and the state of single speed bikes

2024-03-02 Thread Bill Lindsay

I'll definitely buy a Silver 3 road crank.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Saturday, March 2, 2024 at 7:10:49 AM UTC-8 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> A couple of interesting(?) Roaduno tidbits in yesterday’s blog. Sounds 
> like a distinct possibility that the complete will come with the new Silver 
> 3 crank. And the bit about the head badge goof has me planning to paint the 
> “window”, should I be lucky enough to get one. Not going to happen if I am 
> unable to sell my Ibis.:(
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 16, 2024, at 8:05 PM, Richard Rose  wrote:
>
> Per today’s e mail update - Roaduno completes due in May, not April. Not 
> sure if that includes the non completes.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 7, 2024, at 1:03 PM, Berkeleyan  wrote:
>
> 
> " I have a threaded through-axle with big heavy 17mm nuts, front and back. 
> And I carry a Park bottle opener with 17mm socket on the end to remove the 
> wheels."
>
> Er, make that 15mm... I was thinking of motorcycle parts at the same time.
>
> - Andrew
>
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>  
> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roaduno and the state of single speed bikes

2024-03-02 Thread Richard Rose

A couple of interesting(?) Roaduno tidbits in yesterday’s blog. Sounds like a distinct possibility that the complete will come with the new Silver 3 crank. And the bit about the head badge goof has me planning to paint the “window”, should I be lucky enough to get one. Not going to happen if I am unable to sell my Ibis.:(Sent from my iPhoneOn Feb 16, 2024, at 8:05 PM, Richard Rose wrote:Per today’s e mail update - Roaduno completes due in May, not April. Not sure if that includes the non completes.Sent from my iPhoneOn Feb 7, 2024, at 1:03 PM, Berkeleyan wrote:"
I have a threaded through-axle with big heavy 17mm nuts, front and back.
And I carry a Park bottle opener with 17mm socket on the end to remove
the wheels."Er, make that 15mm... I was thinking of motorcycle parts at the same time.- Andrew

Re: [RBW] Re: Roaduno and the state of single speed bikes

2024-02-16 Thread Richard Rose

Per today’s e mail update - Roaduno completes due in May, not April. Not sure if that includes the non completes.Sent from my iPhoneOn Feb 7, 2024, at 1:03 PM, Berkeleyan  wrote:"
I have a threaded through-axle with big heavy 17mm nuts, front and back.
 And I carry a Park bottle opener with 17mm socket on the end to remove 
the wheels."Er, make that 15mm... I was thinking of motorcycle parts at the same time.- Andrew



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Re: [RBW] Re: Roaduno and the state of single speed bikes

2024-02-07 Thread Berkeleyan

" I have a threaded through-axle with big heavy 17mm nuts, front and back. 
And I carry a Park bottle opener with 17mm socket on the end to remove the 
wheels."

Er, make that 15mm... I was thinking of motorcycle parts at the same time.

- Andrew

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roaduno and the state of single speed bikes

2024-02-07 Thread Berkeleyan

Patrick asks, "Andrew: Do you use a QR axle on your flip flop hub? I
switched from 17 and 19 cogs on either side of my Phil to a 17/19 Dingle so
that with the QR axle it's very, very easy and quick to change cogs."

I have a threaded through-axle with big heavy 17mm nuts, front and back.
And I carry a Park bottle opener with 17mm socket on the end to remove the
wheels. It works fine, I don't mind the extra effort. And yes, I enjoy the
QB's up-angled rear forks (dropouts) which let me keep the brake pads
"pretty much" aligned with the rim when I flip between 17 and 19, or flop
over to the fixed 16. For a ride in the flats through traffic, I'm on the
17. If heading up into the lowland hills, I stop and change to the 19. And
stand on the pedals a lot, and even then sometimes get off and walk.

- Andrew, Berkeley

On Monday, February 5, 2024 at 6:54:43 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:

Two teeth will require adjusting the axle-bb length. The Quickbeam and
Roaduno have long track ends to hold the axle (or will the Roaduno have
long forward-facing horizontals?).

With the chain adjusted for the bigger cog you might be able to ride, just,
with the chain on the smaller cog, using a freewheel, but the chain will
certainly be very loose. You would *not* want to do that with a 17/19 t
Surly Dingle cog!

Andrew: Do you use a QR axle on your flip flop hub? I switched from 17 and
19 cogs on either side of my Phil to a 17/19 Dingle so that with the QR
axle it's very, very easy and quick to change cogs.

Patrick "76 inches and 68 inches on the same side" Moore [Sometimes I
wonder if a 17/20 would not have been better: 64"; but then realize that
for this bike the 76" cruising gear and a 68" headwind and long incline
gear is just about perfect; *spot-on* perfect would be 76" / 66".]

Re: [RBW] Re: Roaduno and the state of single speed bikes

2024-02-07 Thread Bill Lindsay

" I like the idea of a front shifted 2x1 or 3x1 setup. If planning on such 
a setup I'd probably just get a Homer vs the Roaduno because I always end 
up wanting fenders on a bike like this and vertical dropouts make fenders 
so much easier. But I do see that the Roaduno with its 120mm rear spacing 
is a "more pure" implementation of the vision."

I agree with this.  Rather than a RoadUno, a RoadTrio could be a 3x1, with 
a 120mm OLD, vertical dropouts and a tensioner tab with no rear cable stops 
and a single DT shifter boss for a front derailleur.  The RoadUno as 
designed gives some additional flexibility for a pure single speed setup, 
or an NxN single chain length setup, but with vertical dropouts would have 
been super interesting.  

There is at least one really good way to run fenders on horizontal 
dropouts, and that one way I'm thinking about is a rear hub with an allen 
bolt configuration that allows you to remove the bolts entirely and drop 
the wheel straight down.  The Surly hub has axle stubs, so doesn't support 
this method.  The Phil hub does allow a straight-drop wheel removal.  If I 
was setting up a RoadUno, I think that's what I'd do.  I'd run a Phil rear 
hub, slammed forward like Will's email photo, with a triple crank, single 
freewheel, and fenders.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Monday, February 5, 2024 at 11:01:59 AM UTC-8 DavidP wrote:

> A recent Riv newsletter compared the 3x1 to an IGH, saying the 3x1 setup 
> is similar but more mechanically transparent.
>
> If you could setup a rear shifted 1x2 or 1x3 with 8-10t jumps between cogs 
> that might be an interesting comparison. (The largest jump on a megarange 
> freewheel is in this range.)
>
> A question I keep coming back to is whether a 3x1 is more "efficient" than 
> a 1x7/8/9 in terms of drivetrain complexity (mechanically and/or mentally).
>
> Still, I like the idea of a front shifted 2x1 or 3x1 setup. If planning on 
> such a setup I'd probably just get a Homer vs the Roaduno because I always 
> end up wanting fenders on a bike like this and vertical dropouts make 
> fenders so much easier. But I do see that the Roaduno with its 120mm rear 
> spacing is a "more pure" implementation of the vision.
>
> -Dave
>
> On Monday, February 5, 2024 at 12:55:20 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> I've always wondered what advantages a 2X1 has over a 1X2 if you are 
>> going to use derailleurs -- the 2X1 requires a FD and something like a RD 
>> while the 1X2 requires only the rear one -- but for ss sans derailleur some 
>> people say that front shifting is easier than rear shifting. Not for me, 
>> though.
>>
>> Am eagerly awaiting the close ratio Silver Rivendell IGH (with 
>> proprietary wingnuts).
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 10:51 AM Mathias Steiner  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Bill said
>>> >> I think the 2x1 or 3x1 concept around the Roaduno is brilliant. 
>>>
>>> ... A 2x1 would give me all the complexities of a rear derailleur, plus 
>>> the poorer shifting of a front system.
>>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roaduno and the state of single speed bikes

2024-02-06 Thread Patrick Moore

But, more to the point, this discussion has clarified why someone might
choose a 2X1 or 3X1.

On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 9:53 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> All speculative, but speculation precedes action. Probably not my action,
> but who knows where this might lead?
>
> On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 8:56 AM Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>
>> " That leaves the question how to arrange a 2-speed, 18-26 t cogset"  So
>> when I asked if this 1x2 bicycle existed only in your imagination, it
>> sounds like the answer is "Yes"
>>
>> " 3 speed freewheels are still available [inserts Amazon link]"  Note
>> that those are definitely of the ultra-cheap and presumably crap variety
>> -AND- don't have any interface for a removal tool.  If you ever want to
>> remove it, take off the bearing cover with your pin spanner, disassemble
>> the whole thing, and grab the guts in your bench vise.  Throw it all into
>> metal recycling and install a new one.
>>
>> "The old, pre-indexing Shimano long cage rd shifted the 8 t gap fine."
>> but note, that in that particular use case, your 8 tooth gap was all the
>> way at the inner swing of a rear derailleur, where the pulleys are already
>> farthest away from the cogset.  If you were to set up this hypothetical 18
>> and 26 right in the middle of the cassette for proper chain line, the
>> headroom relative to the pulleys will be necessarily reduced and possibly
>> too small to function.  This was another reason why I asked whether this
>> 1x2 machine actually exists.
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 6, 2024 at 7:41:36 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Good point about very large gear gaps, and true that my riding does not
>>> generally involve very steep and very long climbs and that I generally
>>> prefer to torque than to spin.
>>>
>>> We all know that front derailleurs are capable of shifting 12-16 tooth
>>> gaps, my DA 7402 (?) fd shifts between the 44 and 28 just fine. Front
>>> shifts are slow compared to rear shifts but they're relatively foolproof,
>>> at least with friction shifting and with a properly set up fd.
>>>
>>> If you want a ~70" gear with a ~50" gear you could have a 48/34 double
>>> with an 18 t cog and get 72" and 51". (27" wheel.)
>>>
>>> Rear derailleurs will shift an 8t gap just fine; long ago I had a
>>> semi-half-step drivetrain, half-stepping the middle 5 cogs of a
>>> 13-15-17-19-21-24-32 7 sp cogset with the 13 used only with the big ring
>>> for downhills and the 32 with the smaller ring for steep climbs. The old,
>>> pre-indexing Shimano long cage rd shifted the 8 t gap fine.
>>>
>>> So, to get the same 72" and 54" gears with a 1X2 you could use that 48
>>> with an 18 t and a 26 t and get 72" and 50".
>>>
>>> That leaves the question how to arrange a 2-speed, 18-26 t cogset.
>>> Cassette hub with spacers is one option, but I've been told that some
>>> 1-speed BMX freehubs can accept 2 cogs. And 3 speed freewheels are still
>>> available:
>>>
>>> https://www.amazon.com/3-Speed-16-19-22T-Thread-Freewheel/dp/B01M8GJV4O
>>>
>>> I wonder if you could find one or modify one to get an 8 t gap?
>>>
>>> Me, give me a SA TF hub, rarer than hen's teeth, which could give me 72"
>>> and 54" (71.5 and 53.6) with direct and 75% underdrive.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 3:14 PM Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>>>
 Patrick Moore claims to have "always" wondered:  "I've always wondered
 what advantages a 2X1 has over a 1X2 if you are going to use derailleurs"

 Can you be more specific about this 1x2 with a rear derailleur that you
 are comparing?  Is this a bike you have?  Have had earlier?  Saw in
 person?  Or are these 1x2 and 2x1 machines just imaginary build concepts?

 Anyway, in my opinion, I think 2x1 would be a lousy choice for Patrick
 Moore.  A Patrick Moore 2-speed is a bike that has two gears that are
 practically the same.  Like a 74 and a 66 or something like that.
 Achieving two gears that are basically the same would be easy with a two
 speed freewheel and a rear derailleur.  A Patrick Moore 2 speed is for 12
 mile grocery runs or chasing down young 'uns on the MUP, or grunting up the
 tramway hill at 30RPM in with a devout and severe mindset of
 self-flagellation.

 The place where a 2x1 gets more interesting, in my opinion, is when you
 want two gears that are not right on top of each other.  For example, a 70+
 inch gear for the flats and a <50 inch gear for actual climbing (or even
 <40).  There's no 2-speed freewheel off the shelf that has like an 18 and a
 26T cog.  Even if you built something, or cobbled something on a cassette
 body, getting a rear derailleur to shift that would be tough.  A Patrick
 Moore two speed in the front would look like a half-step.  Like maybe a 18T
 cog with a 48 and a 45T ring, plus a tensioner.

 Note that NONE of the Riv staff 2x1 or 3x1 builds has the ultra narrow
 spread of a Patrick Mo

Re: [RBW] Re: Roaduno and the state of single speed bikes

2024-02-06 Thread Patrick Moore

All speculative, but speculation precedes action. Probably not my action,
but who knows where this might lead?

On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 8:56 AM Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> " That leaves the question how to arrange a 2-speed, 18-26 t cogset"  So
> when I asked if this 1x2 bicycle existed only in your imagination, it
> sounds like the answer is "Yes"
>
> " 3 speed freewheels are still available [inserts Amazon link]"  Note that
> those are definitely of the ultra-cheap and presumably crap variety -AND-
> don't have any interface for a removal tool.  If you ever want to remove
> it, take off the bearing cover with your pin spanner, disassemble the whole
> thing, and grab the guts in your bench vise.  Throw it all into metal
> recycling and install a new one.
>
> "The old, pre-indexing Shimano long cage rd shifted the 8 t gap fine."
> but note, that in that particular use case, your 8 tooth gap was all the
> way at the inner swing of a rear derailleur, where the pulleys are already
> farthest away from the cogset.  If you were to set up this hypothetical 18
> and 26 right in the middle of the cassette for proper chain line, the
> headroom relative to the pulleys will be necessarily reduced and possibly
> too small to function.  This was another reason why I asked whether this
> 1x2 machine actually exists.
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
>
> On Tuesday, February 6, 2024 at 7:41:36 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Good point about very large gear gaps, and true that my riding does not
>> generally involve very steep and very long climbs and that I generally
>> prefer to torque than to spin.
>>
>> We all know that front derailleurs are capable of shifting 12-16 tooth
>> gaps, my DA 7402 (?) fd shifts between the 44 and 28 just fine. Front
>> shifts are slow compared to rear shifts but they're relatively foolproof,
>> at least with friction shifting and with a properly set up fd.
>>
>> If you want a ~70" gear with a ~50" gear you could have a 48/34 double
>> with an 18 t cog and get 72" and 51". (27" wheel.)
>>
>> Rear derailleurs will shift an 8t gap just fine; long ago I had a
>> semi-half-step drivetrain, half-stepping the middle 5 cogs of a
>> 13-15-17-19-21-24-32 7 sp cogset with the 13 used only with the big ring
>> for downhills and the 32 with the smaller ring for steep climbs. The old,
>> pre-indexing Shimano long cage rd shifted the 8 t gap fine.
>>
>> So, to get the same 72" and 54" gears with a 1X2 you could use that 48
>> with an 18 t and a 26 t and get 72" and 50".
>>
>> That leaves the question how to arrange a 2-speed, 18-26 t cogset.
>> Cassette hub with spacers is one option, but I've been told that some
>> 1-speed BMX freehubs can accept 2 cogs. And 3 speed freewheels are still
>> available:
>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/3-Speed-16-19-22T-Thread-Freewheel/dp/B01M8GJV4O
>>
>> I wonder if you could find one or modify one to get an 8 t gap?
>>
>> Me, give me a SA TF hub, rarer than hen's teeth, which could give me 72"
>> and 54" (71.5 and 53.6) with direct and 75% underdrive.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 3:14 PM Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>>
>>> Patrick Moore claims to have "always" wondered:  "I've always wondered
>>> what advantages a 2X1 has over a 1X2 if you are going to use derailleurs"
>>>
>>> Can you be more specific about this 1x2 with a rear derailleur that you
>>> are comparing?  Is this a bike you have?  Have had earlier?  Saw in
>>> person?  Or are these 1x2 and 2x1 machines just imaginary build concepts?
>>>
>>> Anyway, in my opinion, I think 2x1 would be a lousy choice for Patrick
>>> Moore.  A Patrick Moore 2-speed is a bike that has two gears that are
>>> practically the same.  Like a 74 and a 66 or something like that.
>>> Achieving two gears that are basically the same would be easy with a two
>>> speed freewheel and a rear derailleur.  A Patrick Moore 2 speed is for 12
>>> mile grocery runs or chasing down young 'uns on the MUP, or grunting up the
>>> tramway hill at 30RPM in with a devout and severe mindset of
>>> self-flagellation.
>>>
>>> The place where a 2x1 gets more interesting, in my opinion, is when you
>>> want two gears that are not right on top of each other.  For example, a 70+
>>> inch gear for the flats and a <50 inch gear for actual climbing (or even
>>> <40).  There's no 2-speed freewheel off the shelf that has like an 18 and a
>>> 26T cog.  Even if you built something, or cobbled something on a cassette
>>> body, getting a rear derailleur to shift that would be tough.  A Patrick
>>> Moore two speed in the front would look like a half-step.  Like maybe a 18T
>>> cog with a 48 and a 45T ring, plus a tensioner.
>>>
>>> Note that NONE of the Riv staff 2x1 or 3x1 builds has the ultra narrow
>>> spread of a Patrick Moore bike.  It reminds me of how I would give a
>>> 60-second crash course on shifting at the bike shop when every single bike
>>> was a 3x7 mountain bike:  I would tell them that the terrain should make it
>>> obvious which chainring you are in:  M

Re: [RBW] Re: Roaduno and the state of single speed bikes

2024-02-06 Thread Bill Lindsay

just as an aside to your aside, I recently did some hobbyist lathe work for 
our friend Joe Bunik, who intends to build a two-speed single-speed 
mountain bike.  He had me modify a vintage crankset to yield a single 
52-tooth aluminum chainring that can bolt to the Problem Solvers system of 
cassette spacers.  I forget what his "other" cog size is going to be, but I 
think it may be a mirror, like 52/32 chainrings and 32/52 cogs, so he'll 
have a 52x32 high gear and a 32x52 low gear.  I hope that doesn't spoil his 
reveal.  

BL in EC

On Tuesday, February 6, 2024 at 7:50:54 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Just an aside, but I stumbled across this: a commercially available, 
> modifed single speed fw with *38 teeth. *Also available in a still 
> excessive (for a 1-sp fw) 28 t.
>
>
>
> [image: image.png]
>
> [image: image.png]
>
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/256341921520?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D260344%26meid%3Dbe2f385cd1214fbd8f755967177959e8%26pid%3D101875%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D296157601832%26itm%3D256341921520%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D4429486%26algv%3DSimplAMLv11WebTrimmedV3MskuWithLambda85KnnRecallV1V2V4ItemNrtInQueryAndCassiniVisualRankerAndBertRecallWithVMEV3CPCAuto%26brand%3DUnbranded%252FGeneric&_trksid=p4429486.c101875.m1851&amdata=cksum%3A256341921520be2f385cd1214fbd8f755967177959e8%7Cenc%3AAQAIAAABYObhgc4Nk8%252BdtAwOww4FKLaj%252FQ5qqgDlQCuqZA43WcPFUWDERCUugbbOk7XQv0JXlBfqCg2xKF3WcPghxGMFw2oSlXvfExEaMYr7I7LmrHcP6czY1wIMt0ORyKiCWt95xldincyyBx3g%252BNDW%252B%252FhWUgTaBhK6xAm%252BJIbCOMehu%252BdwuOL9CsgIEdzXJ0407A2KnoQkkxd%252BfE557YZZlNfUYNlNqNAlRc%252FdNRI3MNqF8aELEQJMq%252BnvNt9O1Xa1UKu3RW0CkDa8JQvlXUNZSbLFWuVAeRyYpYRuNbHTVOX6C9zMdNw6RQjeBLo6WJYI3vLjOc%252Ff1jf6B5K3Ncu5DJZnB91jBcLNgLAflW%252Fe7MX6W5n223mlwXEfvtNU4vcjUipmdXEPZsMQ7nnQkiWJFyNmhZiuExvmkowHn0qDXR8G%252FVIXhP%252BoOrfOeIndzkLDZFUbcJ%252Bv8VsYXRbftGaKsqygNRw%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A4429486
>
> On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 8:41 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> Good point about very large gear gaps, and true that my riding does not 
>> generally involve very steep and very long climbs and that I generally 
>> prefer to torque than to spin.
>>
>> We all know that front derailleurs are capable of shifting 12-16 tooth 
>> gaps, my DA 7402 (?) fd shifts between the 44 and 28 just fine. Front 
>> shifts are slow compared to rear shifts but they're relatively foolproof, 
>> at least with friction shifting and with a properly set up fd.
>>
>> If you want a ~70" gear with a ~50" gear you could have a 48/34 double 
>> with an 18 t cog and get 72" and 51". (27" wheel.)
>>
>> Rear derailleurs will shift an 8t gap just fine; long ago I had a 
>> semi-half-step drivetrain, half-stepping the middle 5 cogs of a 
>> 13-15-17-19-21-24-32 7 sp cogset with the 13 used only with the big ring 
>> for downhills and the 32 with the smaller ring for steep climbs. The old, 
>> pre-indexing Shimano long cage rd shifted the 8 t gap fine.
>>
>> So, to get the same 72" and 54" gears with a 1X2 you could use that 48 
>> with an 18 t and a 26 t and get 72" and 50".
>>
>> That leaves the question how to arrange a 2-speed, 18-26 t cogset. 
>> Cassette hub with spacers is one option, but I've been told that some 
>> 1-speed BMX freehubs can accept 2 cogs. And 3 speed freewheels are still 
>> available:
>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/3-Speed-16-19-22T-Thread-Freewheel/dp/B01M8GJV4O
>>
>> I wonder if you could find one or modify one to get an 8 t gap?
>>
>> Me, give me a SA TF hub, rarer than hen's teeth, which could give me 72" 
>> and 54" (71.5 and 53.6) with direct and 75% underdrive.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 3:14 PM Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>>
>>> Patrick Moore claims to have "always" wondered:  "I've always wondered 
>>> what advantages a 2X1 has over a 1X2 if you are going to use derailleurs"
>>>
>>> Can you be more specific about this 1x2 with a rear derailleur that you 
>>> are comparing?  Is this a bike you have?  Have had earlier?  Saw in 
>>> person?  Or are these 1x2 and 2x1 machines just imaginary build concepts?  
>>>
>>> Anyway, in my opinion, I think 2x1 would be a lousy choice for Patrick 
>>> Moore.  A Patrick Moore 2-speed is a bike that has two gears that are 
>>> practically the same.  Like a 74 and a 66 or something like that.  
>>> Achieving two gears that are basically the same would be easy with a two 
>>> speed freewheel and a rear derailleur.  A Patrick Moore 2 speed is for 12 
>>> mile grocery runs or chasing down young 'uns on the MUP, or grunting up the 
>>> tramway hill at 30RPM in with a devout and severe mindset of 
>>> self-flagellation.  
>>>
>>> The place where a 2x1 gets more interesting, in my opinion, is when you 
>>> want two gears that are not right on top of each other.  For example, a 70+ 
>>> inch gear for the flats and a <50 inch gear for actual climbing (or even 
>>> <40).  There's no 2-speed freewheel off the shelf that has like an 18 and a 
>>> 26T cog.  Ev

Re: [RBW] Re: Roaduno and the state of single speed bikes

2024-02-06 Thread Bill Lindsay

" That leaves the question how to arrange a 2-speed, 18-26 t cogset"  So 
when I asked if this 1x2 bicycle existed only in your imagination, it 
sounds like the answer is "Yes"

" 3 speed freewheels are still available [inserts Amazon link]"  Note that 
those are definitely of the ultra-cheap and presumably crap variety -AND- 
don't have any interface for a removal tool.  If you ever want to remove 
it, take off the bearing cover with your pin spanner, disassemble the whole 
thing, and grab the guts in your bench vise.  Throw it all into metal 
recycling and install a new one.  

"The old, pre-indexing Shimano long cage rd shifted the 8 t gap fine."  but 
note, that in that particular use case, your 8 tooth gap was all the way at 
the inner swing of a rear derailleur, where the pulleys are already 
farthest away from the cogset.  If you were to set up this hypothetical 18 
and 26 right in the middle of the cassette for proper chain line, the 
headroom relative to the pulleys will be necessarily reduced and possibly 
too small to function.  This was another reason why I asked whether this 
1x2 machine actually exists.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA


On Tuesday, February 6, 2024 at 7:41:36 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Good point about very large gear gaps, and true that my riding does not 
> generally involve very steep and very long climbs and that I generally 
> prefer to torque than to spin.
>
> We all know that front derailleurs are capable of shifting 12-16 tooth 
> gaps, my DA 7402 (?) fd shifts between the 44 and 28 just fine. Front 
> shifts are slow compared to rear shifts but they're relatively foolproof, 
> at least with friction shifting and with a properly set up fd.
>
> If you want a ~70" gear with a ~50" gear you could have a 48/34 double 
> with an 18 t cog and get 72" and 51". (27" wheel.)
>
> Rear derailleurs will shift an 8t gap just fine; long ago I had a 
> semi-half-step drivetrain, half-stepping the middle 5 cogs of a 
> 13-15-17-19-21-24-32 7 sp cogset with the 13 used only with the big ring 
> for downhills and the 32 with the smaller ring for steep climbs. The old, 
> pre-indexing Shimano long cage rd shifted the 8 t gap fine.
>
> So, to get the same 72" and 54" gears with a 1X2 you could use that 48 
> with an 18 t and a 26 t and get 72" and 50".
>
> That leaves the question how to arrange a 2-speed, 18-26 t cogset. 
> Cassette hub with spacers is one option, but I've been told that some 
> 1-speed BMX freehubs can accept 2 cogs. And 3 speed freewheels are still 
> available:
>
> https://www.amazon.com/3-Speed-16-19-22T-Thread-Freewheel/dp/B01M8GJV4O
>
> I wonder if you could find one or modify one to get an 8 t gap?
>
> Me, give me a SA TF hub, rarer than hen's teeth, which could give me 72" 
> and 54" (71.5 and 53.6) with direct and 75% underdrive.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 3:14 PM Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>
>> Patrick Moore claims to have "always" wondered:  "I've always wondered 
>> what advantages a 2X1 has over a 1X2 if you are going to use derailleurs"
>>
>> Can you be more specific about this 1x2 with a rear derailleur that you 
>> are comparing?  Is this a bike you have?  Have had earlier?  Saw in 
>> person?  Or are these 1x2 and 2x1 machines just imaginary build concepts?  
>>
>> Anyway, in my opinion, I think 2x1 would be a lousy choice for Patrick 
>> Moore.  A Patrick Moore 2-speed is a bike that has two gears that are 
>> practically the same.  Like a 74 and a 66 or something like that.  
>> Achieving two gears that are basically the same would be easy with a two 
>> speed freewheel and a rear derailleur.  A Patrick Moore 2 speed is for 12 
>> mile grocery runs or chasing down young 'uns on the MUP, or grunting up the 
>> tramway hill at 30RPM in with a devout and severe mindset of 
>> self-flagellation.  
>>
>> The place where a 2x1 gets more interesting, in my opinion, is when you 
>> want two gears that are not right on top of each other.  For example, a 70+ 
>> inch gear for the flats and a <50 inch gear for actual climbing (or even 
>> <40).  There's no 2-speed freewheel off the shelf that has like an 18 and a 
>> 26T cog.  Even if you built something, or cobbled something on a cassette 
>> body, getting a rear derailleur to shift that would be tough.  A Patrick 
>> Moore two speed in the front would look like a half-step.  Like maybe a 18T 
>> cog with a 48 and a 45T ring, plus a tensioner.  
>>
>> Note that NONE of the Riv staff 2x1 or 3x1 builds has the ultra narrow 
>> spread of a Patrick Moore bike.  It reminds me of how I would give a 
>> 60-second crash course on shifting at the bike shop when every single bike 
>> was a 3x7 mountain bike:  I would tell them that the terrain should make it 
>> obvious which chainring you are in:  Middle ring for just noodling around.  
>> Big ring for going fast after you have a good head of steam.  Granny ring 
>> for going up a steep hill.  After that obvious choice, then shift the rear 
>> on feel.  Little ea

Re: [RBW] Re: Roaduno and the state of single speed bikes

2024-02-06 Thread Patrick Moore

On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 8:41 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Good point about very large gear gaps, and true that my riding does not
> generally involve very steep and very long climbs and that I generally
> prefer to torque than to spin.
>
> We all know that front derailleurs are capable of shifting 12-16 tooth
> gaps, my DA 7402 (?) fd shifts between the 44 and 28 just fine. Front
> shifts are slow compared to rear shifts but they're relatively foolproof,
> at least with friction shifting and with a properly set up fd.
>
> If you want a ~70" gear with a ~50" gear you could have a 48/34 double
> with an 18 t cog and get 72" and 51". (27" wheel.)
>
> Rear derailleurs will shift an 8t gap just fine; long ago I had a
> semi-half-step drivetrain, half-stepping the middle 5 cogs of a
> 13-15-17-19-21-24-32 7 sp cogset with the 13 used only with the big ring
> for downhills and the 32 with the smaller ring for steep climbs. The old,
> pre-indexing Shimano long cage rd shifted the 8 t gap fine.
>
> So, to get the same 72" and 54" gears with a 1X2 you could use that 48
> with an 18 t and a 26 t and get 72" and 50".
>
> That leaves the question how to arrange a 2-speed, 18-26 t cogset.
> Cassette hub with spacers is one option, but I've been told that some
> 1-speed BMX freehubs can accept 2 cogs. And 3 speed freewheels are still
> available:
>
> https://www.amazon.com/3-Speed-16-19-22T-Thread-Freewheel/dp/B01M8GJV4O
>
> I wonder if you could find one or modify one to get an 8 t gap?
>
> Me, give me a SA TF hub, rarer than hen's teeth, which could give me 72"
> and 54" (71.5 and 53.6) with direct and 75% underdrive.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 3:14 PM Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>
>> Patrick Moore claims to have "always" wondered:  "I've always wondered
>> what advantages a 2X1 has over a 1X2 if you are going to use derailleurs"
>>
>> Can you be more specific about this 1x2 with a rear derailleur that you
>> are comparing?  Is this a bike you have?  Have had earlier?  Saw in
>> person?  Or are these 1x2 and 2x1 machines just imaginary build concepts?
>>
>> Anyway, in my opinion, I think 2x1 would be a lousy choice for Patrick
>> Moore.  A Patrick Moore 2-speed is a bike that has two gears that are
>> practically the same.  Like a 74 and a 66 or something like that.
>> Achieving two gears that are basically the same would be easy with a two
>> speed freewheel and a rear derailleur.  A Patrick Moore 2 speed is for 12
>> mile grocery runs or chasing down young 'uns on the MUP, or grunting up the
>> tramway hill at 30RPM in with a devout and severe mindset of
>> self-flagellation.
>>
>> The place where a 2x1 gets more interesting, in my opinion, is when you
>> want two gears that are not right on top of each other.  For example, a 70+
>> inch gear for the flats and a <50 inch gear for actual climbing (or even
>> <40).  There's no 2-speed freewheel off the shelf that has like an 18 and a
>> 26T cog.  Even if you built something, or cobbled something on a cassette
>> body, getting a rear derailleur to shift that would be tough.  A Patrick
>> Moore two speed in the front would look like a half-step.  Like maybe a 18T
>> cog with a 48 and a 45T ring, plus a tensioner.
>>
>> Note that NONE of the Riv staff 2x1 or 3x1 builds has the ultra narrow
>> spread of a Patrick Moore bike.  It reminds me of how I would give a
>> 60-second crash course on shifting at the bike shop when every single bike
>> was a 3x7 mountain bike:  I would tell them that the terrain should make it
>> obvious which chainring you are in:  Middle ring for just noodling around.
>> Big ring for going fast after you have a good head of steam.  Granny ring
>> for going up a steep hill.  After that obvious choice, then shift the rear
>> on feel.  Little easier this way, little harder that way.  A 3x1 is exactly
>> the same, in my view, with no rear derailleur.
>>
>> So, in short, the thing that you've "always wondered" is that a 2x1 or
>> 3x1 has no advantages for the very narrow build type that you tend to
>> feature.  You've got your Patrick Moore build envelope all figured out.
>> That's my opinion anyway.  I'm looking forward to putting my new-to-me 3x1
>> Rivendell through its paces, starting maybe in March.  I have some
>> self-flagellation of my own to get done before that.
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Monday, February 5, 2024 at 9:55:20 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> I've always wondered what advantages a 2X1 has over a 1X2 if you are
>>> going to use derailleurs -- the 2X1 requires a FD and something like a RD
>>> while the 1X2 requires only the rear one -- but for ss sans derailleur some
>>> people say that front shifting is easier than rear shifting. Not for me,
>>> though.
>>>
>>> Am eagerly awaiting the close ratio Silver Rivendell IGH (with
>>> proprietary wingnuts).
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 10:51 AM Mathias Steiner 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Bill said
 >> I think the 2x1 or 3x1 concept around the Roaduno is brilliant.

Re: [RBW] Re: Roaduno and the state of single speed bikes

2024-02-06 Thread Patrick Moore

Good point about very large gear gaps, and true that my riding does not
generally involve very steep and very long climbs and that I generally
prefer to torque than to spin.

We all know that front derailleurs are capable of shifting 12-16 tooth
gaps, my DA 7402 (?) fd shifts between the 44 and 28 just fine. Front
shifts are slow compared to rear shifts but they're relatively foolproof,
at least with friction shifting and with a properly set up fd.

If you want a ~70" gear with a ~50" gear you could have a 48/34 double with
an 18 t cog and get 72" and 51". (27" wheel.)

Rear derailleurs will shift an 8t gap just fine; long ago I had a
semi-half-step drivetrain, half-stepping the middle 5 cogs of a
13-15-17-19-21-24-32 7 sp cogset with the 13 used only with the big ring
for downhills and the 32 with the smaller ring for steep climbs. The old,
pre-indexing Shimano long cage rd shifted the 8 t gap fine.

So, to get the same 72" and 54" gears with a 1X2 you could use that 48 with
an 18 t and a 26 t and get 72" and 50".

That leaves the question how to arrange a 2-speed, 18-26 t cogset. Cassette
hub with spacers is one option, but I've been told that some 1-speed BMX
freehubs can accept 2 cogs. And 3 speed freewheels are still available:

https://www.amazon.com/3-Speed-16-19-22T-Thread-Freewheel/dp/B01M8GJV4O

I wonder if you could find one or modify one to get an 8 t gap?

Me, give me a SA TF hub, rarer than hen's teeth, which could give me 72"
and 54" (71.5 and 53.6) with direct and 75% underdrive.





On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 3:14 PM Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> Patrick Moore claims to have "always" wondered:  "I've always wondered
> what advantages a 2X1 has over a 1X2 if you are going to use derailleurs"
>
> Can you be more specific about this 1x2 with a rear derailleur that you
> are comparing?  Is this a bike you have?  Have had earlier?  Saw in
> person?  Or are these 1x2 and 2x1 machines just imaginary build concepts?
>
> Anyway, in my opinion, I think 2x1 would be a lousy choice for Patrick
> Moore.  A Patrick Moore 2-speed is a bike that has two gears that are
> practically the same.  Like a 74 and a 66 or something like that.
> Achieving two gears that are basically the same would be easy with a two
> speed freewheel and a rear derailleur.  A Patrick Moore 2 speed is for 12
> mile grocery runs or chasing down young 'uns on the MUP, or grunting up the
> tramway hill at 30RPM in with a devout and severe mindset of
> self-flagellation.
>
> The place where a 2x1 gets more interesting, in my opinion, is when you
> want two gears that are not right on top of each other.  For example, a 70+
> inch gear for the flats and a <50 inch gear for actual climbing (or even
> <40).  There's no 2-speed freewheel off the shelf that has like an 18 and a
> 26T cog.  Even if you built something, or cobbled something on a cassette
> body, getting a rear derailleur to shift that would be tough.  A Patrick
> Moore two speed in the front would look like a half-step.  Like maybe a 18T
> cog with a 48 and a 45T ring, plus a tensioner.
>
> Note that NONE of the Riv staff 2x1 or 3x1 builds has the ultra narrow
> spread of a Patrick Moore bike.  It reminds me of how I would give a
> 60-second crash course on shifting at the bike shop when every single bike
> was a 3x7 mountain bike:  I would tell them that the terrain should make it
> obvious which chainring you are in:  Middle ring for just noodling around.
> Big ring for going fast after you have a good head of steam.  Granny ring
> for going up a steep hill.  After that obvious choice, then shift the rear
> on feel.  Little easier this way, little harder that way.  A 3x1 is exactly
> the same, in my view, with no rear derailleur.
>
> So, in short, the thing that you've "always wondered" is that a 2x1 or 3x1
> has no advantages for the very narrow build type that you tend to feature.
> You've got your Patrick Moore build envelope all figured out.  That's my
> opinion anyway.  I'm looking forward to putting my new-to-me 3x1 Rivendell
> through its paces, starting maybe in March.  I have some self-flagellation
> of my own to get done before that.
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Monday, February 5, 2024 at 9:55:20 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> I've always wondered what advantages a 2X1 has over a 1X2 if you are
>> going to use derailleurs -- the 2X1 requires a FD and something like a RD
>> while the 1X2 requires only the rear one -- but for ss sans derailleur some
>> people say that front shifting is easier than rear shifting. Not for me,
>> though.
>>
>> Am eagerly awaiting the close ratio Silver Rivendell IGH (with
>> proprietary wingnuts).
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 10:51 AM Mathias Steiner 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Bill said
>>> >> I think the 2x1 or 3x1 concept around the Roaduno is brilliant.
>>>
>>> ... A 2x1 would give me all the complexities of a rear derailleur, plus
>>> the poorer shifting of a front system.
>>>
>>
>> --
> You received this message because you are sub

Re: [RBW] Re: Roaduno and the state of single speed bikes

2024-02-05 Thread Bill Lindsay

Patrick Moore claims to have "always" wondered:  "I've always wondered what 
advantages a 2X1 has over a 1X2 if you are going to use derailleurs"

Can you be more specific about this 1x2 with a rear derailleur that you are 
comparing?  Is this a bike you have?  Have had earlier?  Saw in person?  Or 
are these 1x2 and 2x1 machines just imaginary build concepts?  

Anyway, in my opinion, I think 2x1 would be a lousy choice for Patrick 
Moore.  A Patrick Moore 2-speed is a bike that has two gears that are 
practically the same.  Like a 74 and a 66 or something like that. 
 Achieving two gears that are basically the same would be easy with a two 
speed freewheel and a rear derailleur.  A Patrick Moore 2 speed is for 12 
mile grocery runs or chasing down young 'uns on the MUP, or grunting up the 
tramway hill at 30RPM in with a devout and severe mindset of 
self-flagellation.  

The place where a 2x1 gets more interesting, in my opinion, is when you 
want two gears that are not right on top of each other.  For example, a 70+ 
inch gear for the flats and a <50 inch gear for actual climbing (or even 
<40).  There's no 2-speed freewheel off the shelf that has like an 18 and a 
26T cog.  Even if you built something, or cobbled something on a cassette 
body, getting a rear derailleur to shift that would be tough.  A Patrick 
Moore two speed in the front would look like a half-step.  Like maybe a 18T 
cog with a 48 and a 45T ring, plus a tensioner.  

Note that NONE of the Riv staff 2x1 or 3x1 builds has the ultra narrow 
spread of a Patrick Moore bike.  It reminds me of how I would give a 
60-second crash course on shifting at the bike shop when every single bike 
was a 3x7 mountain bike:  I would tell them that the terrain should make it 
obvious which chainring you are in:  Middle ring for just noodling around. 
 Big ring for going fast after you have a good head of steam.  Granny ring 
for going up a steep hill.  After that obvious choice, then shift the rear 
on feel.  Little easier this way, little harder that way.  A 3x1 is exactly 
the same, in my view, with no rear derailleur.  

So, in short, the thing that you've "always wondered" is that a 2x1 or 3x1 
has no advantages for the very narrow build type that you tend to feature. 
 You've got your Patrick Moore build envelope all figured out.  That's my 
opinion anyway.  I'm looking forward to putting my new-to-me 3x1 Rivendell 
through its paces, starting maybe in March.  I have some self-flagellation 
of my own to get done before that.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Monday, February 5, 2024 at 9:55:20 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:

> I've always wondered what advantages a 2X1 has over a 1X2 if you are going 
> to use derailleurs -- the 2X1 requires a FD and something like a RD while 
> the 1X2 requires only the rear one -- but for ss sans derailleur some 
> people say that front shifting is easier than rear shifting. Not for me, 
> though.
>
> Am eagerly awaiting the close ratio Silver Rivendell IGH (with proprietary 
> wingnuts).
>
> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 10:51 AM Mathias Steiner  
> wrote:
>
>> Bill said
>> >> I think the 2x1 or 3x1 concept around the Roaduno is brilliant. 
>>
>> ... A 2x1 would give me all the complexities of a rear derailleur, plus 
>> the poorer shifting of a front system.
>>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roaduno and the state of single speed bikes

2024-02-05 Thread Benjamin L. Kelley

Yes&No
While I don't believe the Surly Ultra New hubs lack of a quoted weight
limit means they are unlimited, I do believe it implies that any reasonable
weights are not a problem.
Whereas the Phil ones have a limit specified.

If a company tells me there is a weight limit, I'm inclined to agree/obey
as that probably exists for a reason.
If a company specifies no weight limit, I'm inclined to think there is a
weight limit, but it's probably not an issue for most use cases.
Especially Surly products that I feel probably get a lot more abuse than
some other companies products.

As a rider that is beyond the combined weight limit of the Phil hubs, I
won't buy them any time soon and will stick with the Surly's.
I should keep an eye on the Phil ones tho as I believe the weight limit use
to be 250lbs and has changed, and possibility in the future could go up I
hope.

I was curious what something like the Surly Big Dummy used for hubs, since
they have a combined bike/cargo/rider rating of 400+lbs.
But it doesn't appear Surly is using Surly hubs on any of their complete
bikes anymore.  I assume this is a WTB assimilation/price/brand degradation
issue.

--ben in KC



On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 11:12 AM Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> Do you interpret the absence of a weight rating on the Surly Ultra New to
> mean it's unlimited, and therefore stronger/more reliable than the Phil?
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Monday, February 5, 2024 at 8:18:47 AM UTC-8 Benjamin Kelley wrote:
>
>> One big difference(at least for me) other than the price between the Phil
>> and the Surly Ultra New Hubs, is the loaded bike+rider weight rating.
>> Phil says 280lb/127kg for their Classic.
>> Surly unspecified weight on all their hubs.
>>
>> I personally prefer the fixing bolt to the QR. Less stuff for people to
>> fiddle with on your bike when its locked up.
>> I've replaced pretty much ever QR skewer with a bolt skewer anyways, and
>> I really appreciate the Surly's being threaded for bolts.
>>
>> --ben in KC
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 9:01 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>>> Per their site (https://surlybikes.com/parts/ultra_new_hubs) Surly
>>> offers their "Ultra New Hub" in 135 mm OL in both rim brake and disc rotor
>>> models, and in 120 mm and 130 mm in a rim brake model.
>>>
>>> I expect that this hub is very like their earlier one -- I bought a
>>> couple, the first 18 years ago and used them well -- and they are very nice
>>> hubs; practically speaking they work as well and last as long as but cost
>>> far less than my Phils.
>>>
>>> Apparently the shells are the same, and here's the difference. I did
>>> have my old ones converted to hollow axles.
>>>
>>> Ultra New hubs use hollow axles of our own design mated to threadin
>>> wheel fixing bolts, as opposed to the nutted axles of our previous hubs.
>>> Hollow axles make conversion to quick release super easy (remove bolts,
>>> insert QR skewer, install wheel into frame or fork, ride). All Ultra New
>>> hubs come with fixing bolts, but all are QR compatible without axle
>>> conversion or any other extra crap. Neato. The axles are made of CroMoly
>>> steel, while the fixing bolts are 10.9 stainless steel (i.e. high grade)
>>> for corrosion resistance, high strength, and good looks, and the bolts
>>> tighten and loosen with a 6mm hex wrench.
>>>
>>> I highly recommend a QR skewer -- strong steal internal cam, of course.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, February 2, 2024 at 2:16:12 PM UTC-8 Edwin W wrote:

> ... BMC Monstercross. 700c wheels and cantilever posts. But that has
> 135mm rear spacing, so not exactly built for single speed.
>
> What else is out there that can take a 38mm (or so) tire with a fender?
>
> Edwin
>
> --
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>>> .
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Roaduno and the state of single speed bikes

2024-02-05 Thread Edwin W

I love all of this experimentation, and the Rev folks sure do have a lot of 
experience. 

For me, I am in the fixed gear or 1x8 or so camp. 
Fixed gear so pure and direct and connected.
1x8 more flexible, fewer problems on the hills, but not nearly as much 
easier as you would think considering there are eight times as many gears! 
I do have a city bike with IGH which is cleaner, but getting back to a 
derailed bike feels like a much more direct transfer of power. 

I would like a mechanical engineer/bike racer/someone who knows a lot to 
tell me: how much easier/faster is a geared bike than a single speed? With 
the terrain of Middle Tennessee (rolling hills) Is it 5% faster, like in a 
1 hour race the geared bike wins by 3 minutes? 10% faster (wins by 6 
minutes), or more like 1-2% faster (wins by a minute give or take)?

Edwin

On Monday, February 5, 2024 at 1:01:59 PM UTC-6 DavidP wrote:

> A recent Riv newsletter compared the 3x1 to an IGH, saying the 3x1 setup 
> is similar but more mechanically transparent.
>
> If you could setup a rear shifted 1x2 or 1x3 with 8-10t jumps between cogs 
> that might be an interesting comparison. (The largest jump on a megarange 
> freewheel is in this range.)
>
> A question I keep coming back to is whether a 3x1 is more "efficient" than 
> a 1x7/8/9 in terms of drivetrain complexity (mechanically and/or mentally).
>
> Still, I like the idea of a front shifted 2x1 or 3x1 setup. If planning on 
> such a setup I'd probably just get a Homer vs the Roaduno because I always 
> end up wanting fenders on a bike like this and vertical dropouts make 
> fenders so much easier. But I do see that the Roaduno with its 120mm rear 
> spacing is a "more pure" implementation of the vision.
>
> -Dave
>
> On Monday, February 5, 2024 at 12:55:20 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> I've always wondered what advantages a 2X1 has over a 1X2 if you are 
>> going to use derailleurs -- the 2X1 requires a FD and something like a RD 
>> while the 1X2 requires only the rear one -- but for ss sans derailleur some 
>> people say that front shifting is easier than rear shifting. Not for me, 
>> though.
>>
>> Am eagerly awaiting the close ratio Silver Rivendell IGH (with 
>> proprietary wingnuts).
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 10:51 AM Mathias Steiner  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Bill said
>>> >> I think the 2x1 or 3x1 concept around the Roaduno is brilliant. 
>>>
>>> ... A 2x1 would give me all the complexities of a rear derailleur, plus 
>>> the poorer shifting of a front system.
>>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roaduno and the state of single speed bikes

2024-02-05 Thread DavidP

A recent Riv newsletter compared the 3x1 to an IGH, saying the 3x1 setup is 
similar but more mechanically transparent.

If you could setup a rear shifted 1x2 or 1x3 with 8-10t jumps between cogs 
that might be an interesting comparison. (The largest jump on a megarange 
freewheel is in this range.)

A question I keep coming back to is whether a 3x1 is more "efficient" than 
a 1x7/8/9 in terms of drivetrain complexity (mechanically and/or mentally).

Still, I like the idea of a front shifted 2x1 or 3x1 setup. If planning on 
such a setup I'd probably just get a Homer vs the Roaduno because I always 
end up wanting fenders on a bike like this and vertical dropouts make 
fenders so much easier. But I do see that the Roaduno with its 120mm rear 
spacing is a "more pure" implementation of the vision.

-Dave

On Monday, February 5, 2024 at 12:55:20 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> I've always wondered what advantages a 2X1 has over a 1X2 if you are going 
> to use derailleurs -- the 2X1 requires a FD and something like a RD while 
> the 1X2 requires only the rear one -- but for ss sans derailleur some 
> people say that front shifting is easier than rear shifting. Not for me, 
> though.
>
> Am eagerly awaiting the close ratio Silver Rivendell IGH (with proprietary 
> wingnuts).
>
> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 10:51 AM Mathias Steiner  
> wrote:
>
>> Bill said
>> >> I think the 2x1 or 3x1 concept around the Roaduno is brilliant. 
>>
>> ... A 2x1 would give me all the complexities of a rear derailleur, plus 
>> the poorer shifting of a front system.
>>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roaduno and the state of single speed bikes

2024-02-05 Thread Patrick Moore

I've always wondered what advantages a 2X1 has over a 1X2 if you are going
to use derailleurs -- the 2X1 requires a FD and something like a RD while
the 1X2 requires only the rear one -- but for ss sans derailleur some
people say that front shifting is easier than rear shifting. Not for me,
though.

Am eagerly awaiting the close ratio Silver Rivendell IGH (with proprietary
wingnuts).

On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 10:51 AM Mathias Steiner 
wrote:

> Bill said
> >> I think the 2x1 or 3x1 concept around the Roaduno is brilliant.
>
> ... A 2x1 would give me all the complexities of a rear derailleur, plus
> the poorer shifting of a front system.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roaduno and the state of single speed bikes

2024-02-05 Thread Mathias Steiner

Bill said
>> I think the 2x1 or 3x1 concept around the Roaduno is brilliant. 

That concept is alien to me -- if I understood right, we're talking about 
single-cog-in-back, front-derailleur shifting. I don't know what problem 
that would solve. 

I "get" the single-speed thing, I think. I've been toying with the concept, 
purposely not shifting my old 3x6 Motobécane last summer for days at a 
time. It's relatively flat here in mid-Michigan, and for a commuter bike, 
the simplicity is great. In the end, I was too lazy to take the shifting 
apparatus off. I'm still considering it for a future build, makes for a 
great lockup bike with only five or  six moving parts ;)

Now for winter riding, single speed would make perfect sense. I went more 
complicated and built a rear wheel with a Shimano Nexus 3speed hub. Since I 
have cobbled-together shifting it's only a two speed, Low and Direct, and 
that's plenty. There's  no shift mechanism exposed to the salt, only a 
front rim brake, and the rear coaster brake is great on snow and ice.

A 2x1 would give me all the complexities of a rear derailleur, plus the 
poorer shifting of a front system.
Three speeds is cool, but then a 3sp IGH is a great choice, and the clean 
look is a bonus.

Which is I guess why we have all these bikes to choose from. Different 
strokes and all that. 
cheers -m



On Monday, February 5, 2024 at 12:12:00 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Do you interpret the absence of a weight rating on the Surly Ultra New to 
> mean it's unlimited, and therefore stronger/more reliable than the Phil?  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Monday, February 5, 2024 at 8:18:47 AM UTC-8 Benjamin Kelley wrote:
>
>> One big difference(at least for me) other than the price between the Phil 
>> and the Surly Ultra New Hubs, is the loaded bike+rider weight rating.
>> Phil says 280lb/127kg for their Classic.
>> Surly unspecified weight on all their hubs.
>>
>> I personally prefer the fixing bolt to the QR. Less stuff for people to 
>> fiddle with on your bike when its locked up.
>> I've replaced pretty much ever QR skewer with a bolt skewer anyways, and 
>> I really appreciate the Surly's being threaded for bolts.
>>
>> --ben in KC
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 9:01 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>>> Per their site (https://surlybikes.com/parts/ultra_new_hubs) Surly 
>>> offers their "Ultra New Hub" in 135 mm OL in both rim brake and disc rotor 
>>> models, and in 120 mm and 130 mm in a rim brake model.
>>>
>>> I expect that this hub is very like their earlier one -- I bought a 
>>> couple, the first 18 years ago and used them well -- and they are very nice 
>>> hubs; practically speaking they work as well and last as long as but cost 
>>> far less than my Phils.
>>>
>>> Apparently the shells are the same, and here's the difference. I did 
>>> have my old ones converted to hollow axles.
>>>
>>> Ultra New hubs use hollow axles of our own design mated to threadin 
>>> wheel fixing bolts, as opposed to the nutted axles of our previous hubs. 
>>> Hollow axles make conversion to quick release super easy (remove bolts, 
>>> insert QR skewer, install wheel into frame or fork, ride). All Ultra New 
>>> hubs come with fixing bolts, but all are QR compatible without axle 
>>> conversion or any other extra crap. Neato. The axles are made of CroMoly 
>>> steel, while the fixing bolts are 10.9 stainless steel (i.e. high grade) 
>>> for corrosion resistance, high strength, and good looks, and the bolts 
>>> tighten and loosen with a 6mm hex wrench.
>>>
>>> I highly recommend a QR skewer -- strong steal internal cam, of course.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, February 2, 2024 at 2:16:12 PM UTC-8 Edwin W wrote:

> ... BMC Monstercross. 700c wheels and cantilever posts. But that has 
> 135mm rear spacing, so not exactly built for single speed.
>
> What else is out there that can take a 38mm (or so) tire with a fender?
>
> Edwin
>
> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
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>>>
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgs-J1ns9NF0CioAvznxhrp-Gi_d-pQvEzyeWq6eHz%2BtFQ%40mail.gmail.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roaduno and the state of single speed bikes

2024-02-05 Thread Bill Lindsay

Do you interpret the absence of a weight rating on the Surly Ultra New to 
mean it's unlimited, and therefore stronger/more reliable than the Phil?  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Monday, February 5, 2024 at 8:18:47 AM UTC-8 Benjamin Kelley wrote:

> One big difference(at least for me) other than the price between the Phil 
> and the Surly Ultra New Hubs, is the loaded bike+rider weight rating.
> Phil says 280lb/127kg for their Classic.
> Surly unspecified weight on all their hubs.
>
> I personally prefer the fixing bolt to the QR. Less stuff for people to 
> fiddle with on your bike when its locked up.
> I've replaced pretty much ever QR skewer with a bolt skewer anyways, and I 
> really appreciate the Surly's being threaded for bolts.
>
> --ben in KC
>
> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 9:01 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> Per their site (https://surlybikes.com/parts/ultra_new_hubs) Surly 
>> offers their "Ultra New Hub" in 135 mm OL in both rim brake and disc rotor 
>> models, and in 120 mm and 130 mm in a rim brake model.
>>
>> I expect that this hub is very like their earlier one -- I bought a 
>> couple, the first 18 years ago and used them well -- and they are very nice 
>> hubs; practically speaking they work as well and last as long as but cost 
>> far less than my Phils.
>>
>> Apparently the shells are the same, and here's the difference. I did have 
>> my old ones converted to hollow axles.
>>
>> Ultra New hubs use hollow axles of our own design mated to threadin wheel 
>> fixing bolts, as opposed to the nutted axles of our previous hubs. Hollow 
>> axles make conversion to quick release super easy (remove bolts, insert QR 
>> skewer, install wheel into frame or fork, ride). All Ultra New hubs come 
>> with fixing bolts, but all are QR compatible without axle conversion or any 
>> other extra crap. Neato. The axles are made of CroMoly steel, while the 
>> fixing bolts are 10.9 stainless steel (i.e. high grade) for corrosion 
>> resistance, high strength, and good looks, and the bolts tighten and loosen 
>> with a 6mm hex wrench.
>>
>> I highly recommend a QR skewer -- strong steal internal cam, of course.
>>
>>
>> On Friday, February 2, 2024 at 2:16:12 PM UTC-8 Edwin W wrote:
>>>
 ... BMC Monstercross. 700c wheels and cantilever posts. But that has 
 135mm rear spacing, so not exactly built for single speed.

 What else is out there that can take a 38mm (or so) tire with a fender?

 Edwin

 -- 
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>>
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgs-J1ns9NF0CioAvznxhrp-Gi_d-pQvEzyeWq6eHz%2BtFQ%40mail.gmail.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roaduno and the state of single speed bikes

2024-02-05 Thread Benjamin L. Kelley

One big difference(at least for me) other than the price between the Phil
and the Surly Ultra New Hubs, is the loaded bike+rider weight rating.
Phil says 280lb/127kg for their Classic.
Surly unspecified weight on all their hubs.

I personally prefer the fixing bolt to the QR. Less stuff for people to
fiddle with on your bike when its locked up.
I've replaced pretty much ever QR skewer with a bolt skewer anyways, and I
really appreciate the Surly's being threaded for bolts.

--ben in KC

On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 9:01 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Per their site (https://surlybikes.com/parts/ultra_new_hubs) Surly offers
> their "Ultra New Hub" in 135 mm OL in both rim brake and disc rotor models,
> and in 120 mm and 130 mm in a rim brake model.
>
> I expect that this hub is very like their earlier one -- I bought a
> couple, the first 18 years ago and used them well -- and they are very nice
> hubs; practically speaking they work as well and last as long as but cost
> far less than my Phils.
>
> Apparently the shells are the same, and here's the difference. I did have
> my old ones converted to hollow axles.
>
> Ultra New hubs use hollow axles of our own design mated to threadin wheel
> fixing bolts, as opposed to the nutted axles of our previous hubs. Hollow
> axles make conversion to quick release super easy (remove bolts, insert QR
> skewer, install wheel into frame or fork, ride). All Ultra New hubs come
> with fixing bolts, but all are QR compatible without axle conversion or any
> other extra crap. Neato. The axles are made of CroMoly steel, while the
> fixing bolts are 10.9 stainless steel (i.e. high grade) for corrosion
> resistance, high strength, and good looks, and the bolts tighten and loosen
> with a 6mm hex wrench.
>
> I highly recommend a QR skewer -- strong steal internal cam, of course.
>
>
> On Friday, February 2, 2024 at 2:16:12 PM UTC-8 Edwin W wrote:
>>
>>> ... BMC Monstercross. 700c wheels and cantilever posts. But that has
>>> 135mm rear spacing, so not exactly built for single speed.
>>>
>>> What else is out there that can take a 38mm (or so) tire with a fender?
>>>
>>> Edwin
>>>
>>> --
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roaduno and the state of single speed bikes

2024-02-05 Thread Patrick Moore

If the Roaduno track ends are horizontal yes, that's a defect, IMO. It has
been a long time since I bothered with a rear brake on a fixed geared bike,
but just perhaps, with just 2 teeth difference, you could set up your rear
pads to work with the wheel in both positions despite no angled axle
movement. I've never done that, though.

On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 8:42 AM Richard Rose  wrote:

> Patrick, Roaduno drops are rear facing but horizontal vs. the Quickbeam’s
> angled ones. I presume that means you could not adjust chain tension
> without also needing to adjust brake pads? That ain’t happening.:)
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 5, 2024, at 9:54 AM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
> 
> Two teeth will require adjusting the axle-bb length. The Quickbeam and
> Roaduno have long track ends to hold the axle (or will the Roaduno have
> long forward-facing horizontals?).
>
> With the chain adjusted for the bigger cog you might be able to ride,
> just, with the chain on the smaller cog, using a freewheel, but the chain
> will certainly be very loose. You would *not* want to do that with a
> 17/19 t Surly Dingle cog!
>
> Andrew: Do you use a QR axle on your flip flop hub? I switched from 17 and
> 19 cogs on either side of my Phil to a 17/19 Dingle so that with the QR
> axle it's very, very easy and quick to change cogs.
>
> Patrick "76 inches and 68 inches on the same side" Moore [Sometimes I
> wonder if a 17/20 would not have been better: 64"; but then realize that
> for this bike the 76" cruising gear and a 68" headwind and long incline
> gear is just about perfect; *spot-on* perfect would be 76" / 66".]
>
> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 7:37 AM Richard Rose  wrote:
>
>> Andrew, how does the dos freewheel work? Is the 2 tooth difference not
>> enough to worry about chain tension?
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Feb 4, 2024, at 1:09 PM, Berkeleyan  wrote:
>>
>> 
>> The paint and fancier lugs on the RoadUno are beautiful, glad to see this
>> coming. Still, I love my 66cm QuickBeam. I stick with a single ring up
>> front and a Dos ENO 17-19 freewheel on the rear, with a 16 fixed cog on the
>> other side. It gets me anywhere in Berkeley except up the steepest hills,
>> and also serves as a fine S24O steed (I rode it from Ferry Building over GG
>> Bridge to Corte Madera for Entmoot that one time. The thing maybe not clear
>> until you ride a single is the extra body english you're going to be
>> employing - I stand on the pedals a lot, and do paperboy up many slopes.
>> This is fine, the delight of not ever shifting while riding is exquisite,
>> and I enjoy the tighter bond with  the bike. It's the "one" bike I'll never
>> let go of.
>>
>> - Andrew, Berkeley
>>
>> On Friday, February 2, 2024 at 2:16:12 PM UTC-8 Edwin W wrote:
>>
>>> I like single speed bikes, many like single speed bikes. The simplicity,
>>> the possibility of fixed gear, it is the epitome of biking for me, I think.
>>>
>>> I like the idea of the roaduno. So far it looks like it will have
>>> 700c/622 wheel size, long reach side pull brakes. Rear facing drop outs.
>>> Those are the main factors to think about, because stem length, handlebar
>>> and lever type, fenders or not, dynamo or not, are flexible on most bikes.
>>>
>>> What is the competition, and what are they offering?
>>> Crust Lightning bolt single speed. 650b wheels with anti posts.
>>>
>>> BMC Monstercross. 700c wheels and cantilever posts. But that has 135mm
>>> rear spacing, so not exactly built for single speed.
>>>
>>> What else is out there that can take a 38mm (or so) tire with a fender?
>>>
>>> Edwin
>>>
>>> --
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>> 
>> .
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
>
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Roaduno and the state of single speed bikes

2024-02-05 Thread Patrick Moore

Hah, even better: SA AM hub (3 speed freewheel, 86.54%, direct, 115.55 %;
and ASC (3 speed fixed), direct, 90%, 75%. I agree that 3 speeds is a kind
of universal norm.

On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 8:39 AM Will Boericke  wrote:

> Sturmey Archer AW is as close to single speed as I get - the perfect
> number of speeds for a tootling bike.
>
> Will
>
> On Monday, February 5, 2024 at 10:01:48 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Per their site (https://surlybikes.com/parts/ultra_new_hubs) Surly
>> offers their "Ultra New Hub" in 135 mm OL in both rim brake and disc rotor
>> models, and in 120 mm and 130 mm in a rim brake model.
>>
>> I expect that this hub is very like their earlier one -- I bought a
>> couple, the first 18 years ago and used them well -- and they are very nice
>> hubs; practically speaking they work as well and last as long as but cost
>> far less than my Phils.
>>
>> Apparently the shells are the same, and here's the difference. I did have
>> my old ones converted to hollow axles.
>>
>> Ultra New hubs use hollow axles of our own design mated to threadin wheel
>> fixing bolts, as opposed to the nutted axles of our previous hubs. Hollow
>> axles make conversion to quick release super easy (remove bolts, insert QR
>> skewer, install wheel into frame or fork, ride). All Ultra New hubs come
>> with fixing bolts, but all are QR compatible without axle conversion or any
>> other extra crap. Neato. The axles are made of CroMoly steel, while the
>> fixing bolts are 10.9 stainless steel (i.e. high grade) for corrosion
>> resistance, high strength, and good looks, and the bolts tighten and loosen
>> with a 6mm hex wrench.
>>
>> I highly recommend a QR skewer -- strong steal internal cam, of course.
>>
>>
>> On Friday, February 2, 2024 at 2:16:12 PM UTC-8 Edwin W wrote:
>>>
>>> ... BMC Monstercross. 700c wheels and cantilever posts. But that has
 135mm rear spacing, so not exactly built for single speed.

>>>
 What else is out there that can take a 38mm (or so) tire with a fender?

 Edwin

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---

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roaduno and the state of single speed bikes

2024-02-05 Thread Richard Rose

Patrick, Roaduno drops are rear facing but horizontal vs. the Quickbeam’s angled ones. I presume that means you could not adjust chain tension without also needing to adjust brake pads? That ain’t happening.:)Sent from my iPhoneOn Feb 5, 2024, at 9:54 AM, Patrick Moore wrote:Two teeth will require adjusting the axle-bb length. The Quickbeam and Roaduno have long track ends to hold the axle (or will the Roaduno have long forward-facing horizontals?).With the chain adjusted for the bigger cog you might be able to ride, just, with the chain on the smaller cog, using a freewheel, but the chain will certainly be very loose. You would not want to do that with a 17/19 t Surly Dingle cog!Andrew: Do you use a QR axle on your flip flop hub? I switched from 17 and 19 cogs on either side of my Phil to a 17/19 Dingle so that with the QR axle it's very, very easy and quick to change cogs.Patrick "76 inches and 68 inches on the same side" Moore [Sometimes I wonder if a 17/20 would not have been better: 64"; but then realize that for this bike the 76" cruising gear and a 68" headwind and long incline gear is just about perfect; spot-on perfect would be 76" / 66".]On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 7:37 AM Richard Rose wrote:Andrew, how does the dos freewheel work? Is the 2 tooth difference not enough to worry about chain tension?Sent from my iPhoneOn Feb 4, 2024, at 1:09 PM, Berkeleyan wrote:The paint and fancier lugs on the RoadUno are beautiful, glad to see this coming. Still, I love my 66cm QuickBeam. I stick with a single ring up front and a Dos ENO 17-19 freewheel on the rear, with a 16 fixed cog on the other side. It gets me anywhere in Berkeley except up the steepest hills, and also serves as a fine S24O steed (I rode it from Ferry Building over GG Bridge to Corte Madera for Entmoot that one time. The thing maybe not clear until you ride a single is the extra body english you're going to be employing - I stand on the pedals a lot, and do paperboy up many slopes. This is fine, the delight of not ever shifting while riding is exquisite, and I enjoy the tighter bond with the bike. It's the "one" bike I'll never let go of.- Andrew, BerkeleyOn Friday, February 2, 2024 at 2:16:12 PM UTC-8 Edwin W wrote:I like single speed bikes, many like single speed bikes. The simplicity, the possibility of fixed gear, it is the epitome of biking for me, I think.I like the idea of the roaduno. So far it looks like it will have 700c/622 wheel size, long reach side pull brakes. Rear facing drop outs. Those are the main factors to think about, because stem length, handlebar and lever type, fenders or not, dynamo or not, are flexible on most bikes.What is the competition, and what are they offering?Crust Lightning bolt single speed. 650b wheels with anti posts. BMC Monstercross. 700c wheels and cantilever posts. But that has 135mm rear spacing, so not exactly built for single speed.What else is out there that can take a 38mm (or so) tire with a fender?Edwin

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-- Patrick MooreAlburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum---Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing services---When thou didst not, savage, know thine own meaning,But wouldst gabble like a thing most brutish,I endowed thy purposes with words that made them known.

Re: [RBW] Re: Roaduno and the state of single speed bikes

2024-02-05 Thread Will Boericke

Sturmey Archer AW is as close to single speed as I get - the perfect number 
of speeds for a tootling bike.

Will

On Monday, February 5, 2024 at 10:01:48 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Per their site (https://surlybikes.com/parts/ultra_new_hubs) Surly offers 
> their "Ultra New Hub" in 135 mm OL in both rim brake and disc rotor models, 
> and in 120 mm and 130 mm in a rim brake model.
>
> I expect that this hub is very like their earlier one -- I bought a 
> couple, the first 18 years ago and used them well -- and they are very nice 
> hubs; practically speaking they work as well and last as long as but cost 
> far less than my Phils.
>
> Apparently the shells are the same, and here's the difference. I did have 
> my old ones converted to hollow axles.
>
> Ultra New hubs use hollow axles of our own design mated to threadin wheel 
> fixing bolts, as opposed to the nutted axles of our previous hubs. Hollow 
> axles make conversion to quick release super easy (remove bolts, insert QR 
> skewer, install wheel into frame or fork, ride). All Ultra New hubs come 
> with fixing bolts, but all are QR compatible without axle conversion or any 
> other extra crap. Neato. The axles are made of CroMoly steel, while the 
> fixing bolts are 10.9 stainless steel (i.e. high grade) for corrosion 
> resistance, high strength, and good looks, and the bolts tighten and loosen 
> with a 6mm hex wrench.
>
> I highly recommend a QR skewer -- strong steal internal cam, of course.
>
>
> On Friday, February 2, 2024 at 2:16:12 PM UTC-8 Edwin W wrote:
>>
>> ... BMC Monstercross. 700c wheels and cantilever posts. But that has 
>>> 135mm rear spacing, so not exactly built for single speed.
>>>
>>
>>> What else is out there that can take a 38mm (or so) tire with a fender?
>>>
>>> Edwin
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roaduno and the state of single speed bikes

2024-02-05 Thread Patrick Moore

Per their site (https://surlybikes.com/parts/ultra_new_hubs) Surly offers
their "Ultra New Hub" in 135 mm OL in both rim brake and disc rotor models,
and in 120 mm and 130 mm in a rim brake model.

I expect that this hub is very like their earlier one -- I bought a couple,
the first 18 years ago and used them well -- and they are very nice hubs;
practically speaking they work as well and last as long as but cost far
less than my Phils.

Apparently the shells are the same, and here's the difference. I did have
my old ones converted to hollow axles.

Ultra New hubs use hollow axles of our own design mated to threadin wheel
fixing bolts, as opposed to the nutted axles of our previous hubs. Hollow
axles make conversion to quick release super easy (remove bolts, insert QR
skewer, install wheel into frame or fork, ride). All Ultra New hubs come
with fixing bolts, but all are QR compatible without axle conversion or any
other extra crap. Neato. The axles are made of CroMoly steel, while the
fixing bolts are 10.9 stainless steel (i.e. high grade) for corrosion
resistance, high strength, and good looks, and the bolts tighten and loosen
with a 6mm hex wrench.

I highly recommend a QR skewer -- strong steal internal cam, of course.

On Friday, February 2, 2024 at 2:16:12 PM UTC-8 Edwin W wrote:
>
>> ... BMC Monstercross. 700c wheels and cantilever posts. But that has
>> 135mm rear spacing, so not exactly built for single speed.
>>
>> What else is out there that can take a 38mm (or so) tire with a fender?
>>
>> Edwin
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roaduno and the state of single speed bikes

2024-02-05 Thread Patrick Moore

Two teeth will require adjusting the axle-bb length. The Quickbeam and
Roaduno have long track ends to hold the axle (or will the Roaduno have
long forward-facing horizontals?).

With the chain adjusted for the bigger cog you might be able to ride, just,
with the chain on the smaller cog, using a freewheel, but the chain will
certainly be very loose. You would *not* want to do that with a 17/19 t
Surly Dingle cog!

Andrew: Do you use a QR axle on your flip flop hub? I switched from 17 and
19 cogs on either side of my Phil to a 17/19 Dingle so that with the QR
axle it's very, very easy and quick to change cogs.

Patrick "76 inches and 68 inches on the same side" Moore [Sometimes I
wonder if a 17/20 would not have been better: 64"; but then realize that
for this bike the 76" cruising gear and a 68" headwind and long incline
gear is just about perfect; *spot-on* perfect would be 76" / 66".]

On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 7:37 AM Richard Rose  wrote:

> Andrew, how does the dos freewheel work? Is the 2 tooth difference not
> enough to worry about chain tension?
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 4, 2024, at 1:09 PM, Berkeleyan  wrote:
>
> 
> The paint and fancier lugs on the RoadUno are beautiful, glad to see this
> coming. Still, I love my 66cm QuickBeam. I stick with a single ring up
> front and a Dos ENO 17-19 freewheel on the rear, with a 16 fixed cog on the
> other side. It gets me anywhere in Berkeley except up the steepest hills,
> and also serves as a fine S24O steed (I rode it from Ferry Building over GG
> Bridge to Corte Madera for Entmoot that one time. The thing maybe not clear
> until you ride a single is the extra body english you're going to be
> employing - I stand on the pedals a lot, and do paperboy up many slopes.
> This is fine, the delight of not ever shifting while riding is exquisite,
> and I enjoy the tighter bond with  the bike. It's the "one" bike I'll never
> let go of.
>
> - Andrew, Berkeley
>
> On Friday, February 2, 2024 at 2:16:12 PM UTC-8 Edwin W wrote:
>
>> I like single speed bikes, many like single speed bikes. The simplicity,
>> the possibility of fixed gear, it is the epitome of biking for me, I think.
>>
>> I like the idea of the roaduno. So far it looks like it will have
>> 700c/622 wheel size, long reach side pull brakes. Rear facing drop outs.
>> Those are the main factors to think about, because stem length, handlebar
>> and lever type, fenders or not, dynamo or not, are flexible on most bikes.
>>
>> What is the competition, and what are they offering?
>> Crust Lightning bolt single speed. 650b wheels with anti posts.
>>
>> BMC Monstercross. 700c wheels and cantilever posts. But that has 135mm
>> rear spacing, so not exactly built for single speed.
>>
>> What else is out there that can take a 38mm (or so) tire with a fender?
>>
>> Edwin
>>
>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/ad9012ae-fd47-43d5-9719-79ddf32d409en%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> 
> .
>


-- 

Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
---

Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
services

---

*When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*

*But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*

*I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roaduno and the state of single speed bikes

2024-02-05 Thread Richard Rose

Andrew, how does the dos freewheel work? Is the 2 tooth difference not enough to worry about chain tension?Sent from my iPhoneOn Feb 4, 2024, at 1:09 PM, Berkeleyan wrote:The paint and fancier lugs on the RoadUno are beautiful, glad to see this coming. Still, I love my 66cm QuickBeam. I stick with a single ring up front and a Dos ENO 17-19 freewheel on the rear, with a 16 fixed cog on the other side. It gets me anywhere in Berkeley except up the steepest hills, and also serves as a fine S24O steed (I rode it from Ferry Building over GG Bridge to Corte Madera for Entmoot that one time. The thing maybe not clear until you ride a single is the extra body english you're going to be employing - I stand on the pedals a lot, and do paperboy up many slopes. This is fine, the delight of not ever shifting while riding is exquisite, and I enjoy the tighter bond with the bike. It's the "one" bike I'll never let go of.- Andrew, BerkeleyOn Friday, February 2, 2024 at 2:16:12 PM UTC-8 Edwin W wrote:I like single speed bikes, many like single speed bikes. The simplicity, the possibility of fixed gear, it is the epitome of biking for me, I think.I like the idea of the roaduno. So far it looks like it will have 700c/622 wheel size, long reach side pull brakes. Rear facing drop outs. Those are the main factors to think about, because stem length, handlebar and lever type, fenders or not, dynamo or not, are flexible on most bikes.What is the competition, and what are they offering?Crust Lightning bolt single speed. 650b wheels with anti posts. BMC Monstercross. 700c wheels and cantilever posts. But that has 135mm rear spacing, so not exactly built for single speed.What else is out there that can take a 38mm (or so) tire with a fender?Edwin

Re: [RBW] Re: Roaduno and the state of single speed bikes

2024-02-04 Thread Ryan

Rmrose...+1 for the PX10...mine is ss only. Long history of almost 50 
years  
with these bikes...current one is my 3rd...and yes I still love riding
Itnew roaduno IS intriguing though. And in winnipeg...windy and 
flat.


On Sunday, February 4, 2024 at 1:49:31 PM UTC-6 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> Max, PM’ed you. 
> Rich
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 4, 2024, at 1:23 PM, Max S  wrote:
>
> So, I've got the ol' flip-flop hub, I've got a DOS freewheel and a Dingle 
> cog, and I even hand the ENO double-ring crank (that I then passed on to 
> Bill). In all this time riding SS & fixed, I've never actually stopped 
> mid-ride to change the gearing. I guess my area isn't all that hilly, so 
> I'll suffer up the hill (or down the hill) a bit, but I don't interrupt the 
> ride. I'm curious, do people with 1x2 or 2x2 "SS" or fixed-gear setups 
> actually stop, unbolt / release the wheel, move the chain, re-tighten, and 
> then continue up the hill?.. 
>
>
> - Max "learning to let go of overprovisioned set-ups in life" in A2
>
> On Sunday, February 4, 2024 at 1:09:46 PM UTC-5 Berkeleyan wrote:
>
>> The paint and fancier lugs on the RoadUno are beautiful, glad to see this 
>> coming. Still, I love my 66cm QuickBeam. I stick with a single ring up 
>> front and a Dos ENO 17-19 freewheel on the rear, with a 16 fixed cog on the 
>> other side. It gets me anywhere in Berkeley except up the steepest hills, 
>> and also serves as a fine S24O steed (I rode it from Ferry Building over GG 
>> Bridge to Corte Madera for Entmoot that one time. The thing maybe not clear 
>> until you ride a single is the extra body english you're going to be 
>> employing - I stand on the pedals a lot, and do paperboy up many slopes. 
>> This is fine, the delight of not ever shifting while riding is exquisite, 
>> and I enjoy the tighter bond with  the bike. It's the "one" bike I'll never 
>> let go of.
>>
>> - Andrew, Berkeley
>>
>> On Friday, February 2, 2024 at 2:16:12 PM UTC-8 Edwin W wrote:
>>
>>> I like single speed bikes, many like single speed bikes. The simplicity, 
>>> the possibility of fixed gear, it is the epitome of biking for me, I think.
>>>
>>> I like the idea of the roaduno. So far it looks like it will have 
>>> 700c/622 wheel size, long reach side pull brakes. Rear facing drop outs. 
>>> Those are the main factors to think about, because stem length, handlebar 
>>> and lever type, fenders or not, dynamo or not, are flexible on most bikes.
>>>
>>> What is the competition, and what are they offering?
>>> Crust Lightning bolt single speed. 650b wheels with anti posts. 
>>>
>>> BMC Monstercross. 700c wheels and cantilever posts. But that has 135mm 
>>> rear spacing, so not exactly built for single speed.
>>>
>>> What else is out there that can take a 38mm (or so) tire with a fender?
>>>
>>> Edwin
>>>
>>> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/4fb648ba-376f-406b-b120-7464a81ee418n%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roaduno and the state of single speed bikes

2024-02-04 Thread Richard Rose

Max, PM’ed you. RichSent from my iPhoneOn Feb 4, 2024, at 1:23 PM, Max S wrote:So, I've got the ol' flip-flop hub, I've got a DOS freewheel and a Dingle cog, and I even hand the ENO double-ring crank (that I then passed on to Bill). In all this time riding SS & fixed, I've never actually stopped mid-ride to change the gearing. I guess my area isn't all that hilly, so I'll suffer up the hill (or down the hill) a bit, but I don't interrupt the ride. I'm curious, do people with 1x2 or 2x2 "SS" or fixed-gear setups actually stop, unbolt / release the wheel, move the chain, re-tighten, and then continue up the hill?.. - Max "learning to let go of overprovisioned set-ups in life" in A2On Sunday, February 4, 2024 at 1:09:46 PM UTC-5 Berkeleyan wrote:The paint and fancier lugs on the RoadUno are beautiful, glad to see this coming. Still, I love my 66cm QuickBeam. I stick with a single ring up front and a Dos ENO 17-19 freewheel on the rear, with a 16 fixed cog on the other side. It gets me anywhere in Berkeley except up the steepest hills, and also serves as a fine S24O steed (I rode it from Ferry Building over GG Bridge to Corte Madera for Entmoot that one time. The thing maybe not clear until you ride a single is the extra body english you're going to be employing - I stand on the pedals a lot, and do paperboy up many slopes. This is fine, the delight of not ever shifting while riding is exquisite, and I enjoy the tighter bond with the bike. It's the "one" bike I'll never let go of.- Andrew, BerkeleyOn Friday, February 2, 2024 at 2:16:12 PM UTC-8 Edwin W wrote:I like single speed bikes, many like single speed bikes. The simplicity, the possibility of fixed gear, it is the epitome of biking for me, I think.I like the idea of the roaduno. So far it looks like it will have 700c/622 wheel size, long reach side pull brakes. Rear facing drop outs. Those are the main factors to think about, because stem length, handlebar and lever type, fenders or not, dynamo or not, are flexible on most bikes.What is the competition, and what are they offering?Crust Lightning bolt single speed. 650b wheels with anti posts. BMC Monstercross. 700c wheels and cantilever posts. But that has 135mm rear spacing, so not exactly built for single speed.What else is out there that can take a 38mm (or so) tire with a fender?Edwin

Re: [RBW] Re: Roaduno and the state of single speed bikes

2024-02-02 Thread luckyturnip

Dare I…come in here with the Squid…?On Feb 2, 2024, at 15:01, DavidP wrote:Hi Edwin, A few more I'm aware of:Crust Florida Man - 130mm spacing, track ends, removable canti-posts, 27.5x2.4 listed max so 55mm tires with a fender should be fineWabi Thunder - 120mm spacing, track ends, 700x44 (conservative?) maxHandsome Devil - 132.5mm spacing, semi-horizonal dropouts, 700x45ish max - mine has 38mm Gravel Kings with VO Zeppelin 52mm fenders but the tires measure smaller than stated size (~36mm). I'm using the Surly 130mm hub Bill mentioned on this bike to get a fixed gear option, but my other single speeds use single speed cogs and spacers on cassette hubs.-DaveOn Friday, February 2, 2024 at 5:16:12 PM UTC-5 Edwin W wrote:I like single speed bikes, many like single speed bikes. The simplicity, the possibility of fixed gear, it is the epitome of biking for me, I think.I like the idea of the roaduno. So far it looks like it will have 700c/622 wheel size, long reach side pull brakes. Rear facing drop outs. Those are the main factors to think about, because stem length, handlebar and lever type, fenders or not, dynamo or not, are flexible on most bikes.What is the competition, and what are they offering?Crust Lightning bolt single speed. 650b wheels with anti posts. BMC Monstercross. 700c wheels and cantilever posts. But that has 135mm rear spacing, so not exactly built for single speed.What else is out there that can take a 38mm (or so) tire with a fender?Edwin

Re: [RBW] Re: Roaduno and the state of single speed bikes

Re: [RBW] Re: Roaduno and the state of single speed bikes

Re: [RBW] Re: Roaduno and the state of single speed bikes

Re: [RBW] Re: Roaduno and the state of single speed bikes

Re: [RBW] Re: Roaduno and the state of single speed bikes

Re: [RBW] Re: Roaduno and the state of single speed bikes

Re: [RBW] Re: Roaduno and the state of single speed bikes

Re: [RBW] Re: Roaduno and the state of single speed bikes

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