subject:"Re\: \[RBW\] Re\: fenders"

Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders for bikes with big tires

2021-10-10 Thread Andrew Letton

+1 on the 700x60 Berthouds. I've had them on my Bombadil with 2.1 tires for
about a decade now.cheers,Andrew in Sydney
On Thursday, October 7, 2021, 06:54:10 AM GMT+11, Edwin W
wrote:

I have been very happy with the Berthoud 700x60mm stainless steel fenders on
my Appaloosa with 50mm
tires.https://store.biketouringnews.com/gilles-berthoud-stainless-steel-fender-set/

Edwin

On Tuesday, October 5, 2021 at 7:23:07 AM UTC-5 ascpgh wrote:

I have a set of Velo Orange Zeppelin fenders (fully fluted) on my rack bait
commuter that I've been riding year round for seven years. I don't think you'll
go wrong with the set you linked.
My V.O.s have weathered the seasonal precipitation and clanking in and out of
industrial bike racks enough to earn the title of being durable. The front is
long enough that I didn't have to add a ridiculous mudflap for good foot and
drivetrain slop protection. The rear I installed with the front end below the
BB for good protection for the drivetrain. No one follows me at my hours and I
don't ride groups on that bike so I don't have a rear flap. I do have a fender
mounted wired tail light. I ran its wire from the left chain stay wrapped
around the fender stay to use up excess, going under the fender almost where
the light's mounted. Maybe shonkey for a show bike but I wan't in the cut,
solder, shrink seal business at the moment. No damage, grounding events in
seven years.
Andy CheathamPittsburgh
On Sunday, October 3, 2021 at 2:45:34 PM UTC-4 johnny@gmail.com wrote:

Hello,Winter is coming
And so fenders are needed. I have a Hunqapillar with some big 2.1" tires. My
fender requirements are that they must fit, be pretty and not too short. I like
long fenders because long fenders + mud-flaps keep the muck off.
Here's where I'm at...
- Planet Bike fenders are too short, I think. These must be for Californians
- PDW Full Metal Fenders are great, i have them on a different bike, but
unsure if the 55mm will fit my 2.1's
- The SKS B65 may fit the bill, it's what Riv recommends, but they look
really short (here is the riv link with pic) and... plastic
- Velo Orange seems to have some nice fenders in 63mm here they are
These are going to last a really long time so price isn't really a deciding
factor. I also want them to look good, because I'm vain. After typing all of
this it appears I'm leaning toward the VO fenders, how do folks here feel about
them? How's their longevity?
thank you,Johnny B in Portland

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders for bikes with big tires

2021-10-05 Thread Steven Sweedler

I get more positive comments about my flat wood fenders than anything else
on my bikes. I haven’t ridden in any downpours lately but have not been
disappointed in their coverage. From Woodysfenders.com
Steve

On Tue, Oct 5, 2021 at 7:39 AM lconley  wrote:

> I have two sets of Honjo H-95 (65.5mm wide and flat). Simworks sells even
> wider versions in flat (79mm) and curved (72.5). Plenty long. I use the
> wide Honjo fender flaps with them.
> I just bought some PDW fender safety tabs from Rivendell to use with them
> on my Rivendell Keven's Cargo bike - 27.5x2.25 Kenda Kwik Seven.5 Sports.
> The other set is on my Bombadil - 650B x 57 Schwalbe G-One Allrounds.
>
> Laing
> Delray Beach FL
>
> On Sunday, October 3, 2021 at 2:45:34 PM UTC-4 johnny@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>> Winter is coming **
>>
>> And so fenders are needed. I have a Hunqapillar with some big 2.1" tires.
>> My fender requirements are that they must fit, be pretty and not too short.
>> I like long fenders because long fenders + mud-flaps keep the muck off.
>>
>> Here's where I'm at...
>>
>>- Planet Bike fenders are too short, I think. These must be for
>>Californians
>>- PDW Full Metal Fenders are great, i have them on a different bike,
>>but unsure if the 55mm will fit my 2.1's
>>- The SKS B65 may fit the bill, it's what Riv recommends, but they
>>look really short (here
>>
>> 
>>  is
>>the riv link with pic) and... plastic
>>- Velo Orange seems to have some nice fenders in 63mm here they are
>>
>> 
>>
>> These are going to last a really long time so price isn't really a
>> deciding factor. I also want them to look good, because I'm vain. After
>> typing all of this it appears I'm leaning toward the VO fenders, how do
>> folks here feel about them? How's their longevity?
>>
>> thank you,
>> Johnny B in Portland
>>
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-- 
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Plymouth, New Hampshire

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders - worth the safety risks? Rethinking my fender use.

2017-06-02 Thread Patrick Moore

I find TCO annoying, but all the bikes that I've had with this character
have had it without fenders, so I've chosen or avoided fenders for other
reasons, and I've found that, in fact, adding a bit more TCO with fenders
to a bike that already has TCO without doesn't make it worse -- in my own
experience, at least. In fact, in one case, fenders made it easier to deal
with: old Motobecane racing bike with shortish front center: I found that
adding VO aluminum fenders (35? 40?) actually helped my foot slide off the
wheel easier, or perhaps better, not catch on the wheel as easily.

But then I commuted in heavy urban traffic on fixed gears (no backpedaling)
with TCO, and found it just an annoyance, not a danger. You get used to it,
so much so that I automatically prepare for it even on bikes that don't
have it.

So if your bike has it without, you might as well put them on.

And all that said, I'd rather not have it if I didn't have to give anything
else up.

On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 12:20 PM, Stuart Lovinggood 
wrote:

> After a couple battles with toe overlap, none of which ended in total
> disaster but still troubling, I decided to postpone my fender experience
> and swapped out slicks and fenders for Smart Sams on my Joe. I am pleased
> with this decision. Maybe I'll take any intermittent rainy weather we get
> here in Austin as a sign to take a break from the bike, and the fenders
> didn't do much to keep the Texas dust off my drivetrain. I'll save them
> if/when I move to a wetter climate.
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders - worth the safety risks? Rethinking my fender use.

2017-06-02 Thread William R.

Thanks John. I will keep them in mind. Also the colorful new ones that Riv has. 
Last night I crudely cut one out of an old water bottle and duct taped it to 
the front fender. Of course it was completely dry out there this morning. If it 
has the desired result I may "upgrade" to an actual product mudlap at some 
point.

Bill in Westchester, NY

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders - worth the safety risks? Rethinking my fender use.

2017-06-01 Thread John Hawrylak


William R
 
I used the vinyl rubber mud flaps from Planet Bike on the front SKS P45.  
Extends a good 6", fit good and looks good.  Drilled 2 holes in fender and 
secured with a tie wrap.   
 
John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

 
 
-Original Message-
From: William R. 
To: RBW Owners Bunch 
Sent: Thu, Jun 1, 2017 9:33 am
Subject: [RBW] Re: Fenders - worth the safety risks? Rethinking my fender use.



When the weather gets generally dry I prefer to not have fenders on my 
Appaloosa. We do have a lot of squirrelly squirrels here in the north eastern 
US. Lots of rabbits too on the MUP. They behave differently from squirrels but 
also unpredictably! So, yes, I worry about that happening. Sticks too. Hasn't 
happened yet, but still... I would say it's about 50/50 for the year on average 
having fenders on/off. I totally agree with bsnyc about riding through unknown 
nasty stuff in the city too. So when I head in that direction I like to be 
covered. It has been pretty wet here for most of May. My morning ride for the 
1st of June was no different. My back side and saddle bag stay dry as does the 
headset. But with all of the organic matter falling from the trees right now 
I've been getting this mess. I think I will try to make a mud flap from an old 
water bottle tonight and see how that goes. Seems like I just need one on the 
front so I will start with that. Those are the P65s over Maxxis Torches if 
anyone wants to know. 


Bill in Westchester, NY



 




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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders - worth the safety risks? Rethinking my fender use.

2017-05-29 Thread 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch

That's why they call 'em squirrels--'cause they're squirrelly. Hello.

On Monday, May 29, 2017 at 9:11:55 AM UTC-4, Lee Legrand wrote:
>
> Dear Ron,
>
> I was just speaking to someone about squirrels while driving and how that 
> person tries to avoid hitting them but she mentioned that they always seem 
> to run across the street, at the last minute.
>
> On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 9:06 AM, Ron Mc  
> wrote:
>
>> squirrels are more frightening than charging deer, because they try twice 
>> to run through your spokes.  
>> A buddy was laughing me on a wooded greenway for ringing my bike bell at 
>> squirrels.  
>>
>> On Monday, May 29, 2017 at 7:54:16 AM UTC-5, Lee Legrand wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear John,
>>>
>>> Did a squirrel get stuck within the wheel while riding, causing the 
>>> crack in the fork?
>>>
>>>
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>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders - worth the safety risks? Rethinking my fender use.

2017-05-29 Thread John Hawrylak

Lee
Don't know, was just asking the question about what is fork material.

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

On Monday, May 29, 2017 at 8:54:16 AM UTC-4, Lee Legrand wrote:

> Dear John,
>
> Did a squirrel get stuck within the wheel while riding, causing the crack 
> in the fork?
>
> On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 8:17 AM, John Hawrylak  > wrote:
>
>>
>> Steel, Al, Ti or Carbon???
>>
>> John Hawrylak
>> Woodstown NJ 
>> 
>>
>>>  
>>>
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders - worth the safety risks? Rethinking my fender use.

2017-05-29 Thread Ron Mc

and back across

On Monday, May 29, 2017 at 8:11:55 AM UTC-5, Lee Legrand wrote:
>
> Dear Ron,
>
> I was just speaking to someone about squirrels while driving and how that 
> person tries to avoid hitting them but she mentioned that they always seem 
> to run across the street, at the last minute.
>
> On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 9:06 AM, Ron Mc  
> wrote:
>
>> squirrels are more frightening than charging deer, because they try twice 
>> to run through your spokes.  
>> A buddy was laughing me on a wooded greenway for ringing my bike bell at 
>> squirrels.  
>>
>> On Monday, May 29, 2017 at 7:54:16 AM UTC-5, Lee Legrand wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear John,
>>>
>>> Did a squirrel get stuck within the wheel while riding, causing the 
>>> crack in the fork?
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
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>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders - worth the safety risks? Rethinking my fender use.

2017-05-29 Thread Lee Legrand

Dear Ron,

I was just speaking to someone about squirrels while driving and how that
person tries to avoid hitting them but she mentioned that they always seem
to run across the street, at the last minute.

On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 9:06 AM, Ron Mc  wrote:

> squirrels are more frightening than charging deer, because they try twice
> to run through your spokes.
> A buddy was laughing me on a wooded greenway for ringing my bike bell at
> squirrels.
>
> On Monday, May 29, 2017 at 7:54:16 AM UTC-5, Lee Legrand wrote:
>>
>> Dear John,
>>
>> Did a squirrel get stuck within the wheel while riding, causing the crack
>> in the fork?
>>
>>
>> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders - worth the safety risks? Rethinking my fender use.

2017-05-29 Thread Ron Mc

squirrels are more frightening than charging deer, because they try twice 
to run through your spokes.  
A buddy was laughing me on a wooded greenway for ringing my bike bell at 
squirrels.  

On Monday, May 29, 2017 at 7:54:16 AM UTC-5, Lee Legrand wrote:
>
> Dear John,
>
> Did a squirrel get stuck within the wheel while riding, causing the crack 
> in the fork?
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders - worth the safety risks? Rethinking my fender use.

2017-05-29 Thread Lee Legrand

Dear John,

Did a squirrel get stuck within the wheel while riding, causing the crack
in the fork?

On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 8:17 AM, John Hawrylak 
wrote:

>
> Steel, Al, Ti or Carbon???
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ 
>
>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders - worth the safety risks? Rethinking my fender use.

2017-05-29 Thread John Hawrylak

Steve
Well Stated.

Do you use the safety tabs with the metal fenders??

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders - worth the safety risks? Rethinking my fender use.

2017-05-29 Thread Deacon Patrick

Excellent point, Andy. I have indeed noticed my Racing Ralphs are excellent 
at not collecting much mud or snow and then rapidly throwing off any that 
does get on. I suspect a combination of tread pattern and compound.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Monday, May 29, 2017 at 5:04:24 AM UTC-6, ascpgh wrote:
>
> Tread compounds vary in affinity to mud and snow. I'm sure there is some 
> intention to that attribute. I had a set of Tioga Route 66 "mud" tires that 
> , despite a full knobby pattern, didn't fill in and accumulate mud. The 
> unintentional benefit I discovered was that snow didn't stick either. 
>
> A later 2.2" knobby tire in the snow complete with "bad idea" fenders:
>
>
> 
>
>
> Andy Cheatham
>
> Pittsburgh
>
>
> On Friday, May 26, 2017 at 6:43:26 PM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>
>> Oddly I do not notice more detritus pickup with Racing Ralphs than 
>> Thunder Burts, though I certainly imagine they do, it's just not noticeable.
>>
>> With abandon,
>> Patrick
>>
>> On Friday, May 26, 2017 at 4:31:14 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Question, Patrick: the Thunderburt knobs are hardly bigger than those on 
>>> the F Freds. Still: are the knobs too big for comfort and fenders together? 
>>> I suppose that by the time you are at the Racing Ralph or R size-knob, 
>>> you are clearly at more risk. 
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders - worth the safety risks? Rethinking my fender use.

2017-05-29 Thread ascpgh

Tread compounds vary in affinity to mud and snow. I'm sure there is some 
intention to that attribute. I had a set of Tioga Route 66 "mud" tires that 
, despite a full knobby pattern, didn't fill in and accumulate mud. The 
unintentional benefit I discovered was that snow didn't stick either. 

A later 2.2" knobby tire in the snow complete with "bad idea" fenders:




Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh


On Friday, May 26, 2017 at 6:43:26 PM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Oddly I do not notice more detritus pickup with Racing Ralphs than Thunder 
> Burts, though I certainly imagine they do, it's just not noticeable.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Friday, May 26, 2017 at 4:31:14 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>
>> Question, Patrick: the Thunderburt knobs are hardly bigger than those on 
>> the F Freds. Still: are the knobs too big for comfort and fenders together? 
>> I suppose that by the time you are at the Racing Ralph or R size-knob, 
>> you are clearly at more risk. 
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders - worth the safety risks? Rethinking my fender use.

2017-05-28 Thread Chris Chen

This thread is bit confusing to me.

Fender related crashes seem anecdotal, I live in western Oregon so rain is
far from anecdotal.

On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 09:50 Brian Campbell  wrote:

>
> I did a refresh on my AHH which now sports 10 spd friction and sized down
> from 38mm EL Barlow Pass to 35mm EL Bon Jon Pass tires.
>
>
> 
>
>
> 
>
>
> 
>
>
> 
>
>
> 
>
>
> 
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders - worth the safety risks? Rethinking my fender use.

2017-05-27 Thread William deRosset

Dear Steve, 

On roads, metal fenders, reasonable clearance, and slicks? Lightning will 
strike first. Knobbies, rocky single-track, plastic fenders, tight trails in 
the woods? Buy spares. 

My Wednesday Night Lights bike goes through two Honjos a year because I set my 
650b machine up for gravel road travel/commuting and take it Hucking/ mountain 
biking at night after work. If I were better at manualing a bike over 
unexpected drops it would be no problem.

No trouble with sticks etc., but I kill front fenders on drop-offs. My rear 
light wiring got sheared off last week. It is time to pound out the fenders and 
run a new wire.

As a point of comparison, my RH, with 40k plus miles on the road, is on its 
original front fender

When I still used SKS fenders, I blew through a couple of fronts a year just 
knocking around on the road, and got knocked down a couple of times. Metal 
fenders, properly mounted, are a vig step up in both reliability and 
efficiency. They are also ordinarily about 200g lighter than the same width 
chromoplaatics. Honjos or Berthoud are both pretty challenging to mount to 
Rivendells with horizontal dropouts, as Grant didn't set his bridges carefully..

Best,

Will
William M deRosset
Fort Collins CO

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders - worth the safety risks? Rethinking my fender use.

2017-05-27 Thread Patrick Moore

Jeff: just saw this. I mean, fenders and properly weighted raincape keep my
backside dry *during* downpours and *while* riding through deep puddles. My
feet and legs to knee get wet, but not anything above the knee (the knee is
more or less the dividing point). Perhaps you didn't see my reference to
the rain cape.

(This isn't addressed to Jeff, but to the person starting the thread.) With
the mileage Steve P does, I have to give some weight to his observation.
*(Reluctantly.)* And once again, how many millions of riders ride daily and
have ridden daily for a century or more with fenders, and without incident?

Patrick Moore, who just rode his fenderless gofast on the hilly and windy
westside (to and around and about the Petroglyph Nat Mnt area) *without any
fenders whatsoever!*

On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 2:33 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:

>
> On 05/27/2017 03:19 PM, Jeff Lesperance wrote:
>
>> Patrick - are you speaking about keeping your backside dry traversing
>> deep puddles and gutters AFTER the downpour or during? I say during a
>> downpour, your backside is getting wet from above enough such that any tire
>> spray from below is negligible in terms of wetness, though it may be more
>> foul from below, but yes, after a downpour, fenders will work wonders in
>> any depth of water to keep spray off of the feet and the back.
>>
>
> "Tire spray from below" is never "negligible".  And "more foul" hardly
> begins to describe it if you are riding in a place where Amish and
> Mennonite buggies have been using the roads -- as is the case in areas of
> Southern Maryland where I ride, and in Lancaster PA (where the Covered
> Bridge Metric seems to have rain about as often as it does not).
>
> As for the subject of this thread: let me say today I cheated death yet
> again, as I have done time and time again over the years.  I've never
> picked up a stick, and when Jan Heine inquired on this subject among the
> old French randonneurs they'd never seen crumpled metal fenders.  If you
> ride roads and use metal fenders and have proper clearance in your
> installation, then pretty much this is a non-issue about on a par with
> worrying about being struck by lightning.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders - worth the safety risks? Rethinking my fender use.

2017-05-27 Thread Steve Palincsar



On 05/27/2017 03:19 PM, Jeff Lesperance wrote:
Patrick - are you speaking about keeping your backside dry traversing 
deep puddles and gutters AFTER the downpour or during? I say during a 
downpour, your backside is getting wet from above enough such that any 
tire spray from below is negligible in terms of wetness, though it may 
be more foul from below, but yes, after a downpour, fenders will work 
wonders in any depth of water to keep spray off of the feet and the back.


"Tire spray from below" is never "negligible".  And "more foul" hardly 
begins to describe it if you are riding in a place where Amish and 
Mennonite buggies have been using the roads -- as is the case in areas 
of Southern Maryland where I ride, and in Lancaster PA (where the 
Covered Bridge Metric seems to have rain about as often as it does not).


As for the subject of this thread: let me say today I cheated death yet 
again, as I have done time and time again over the years.  I've never 
picked up a stick, and when Jan Heine inquired on this subject among the 
old French randonneurs they'd never seen crumpled metal fenders.  If you 
ride roads and use metal fenders and have proper clearance in your 
installation, then pretty much this is a non-issue about on a par with 
worrying about being struck by lightning.


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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders - worth the safety risks? Rethinking my fender use.

2017-05-27 Thread Jeff Lesperance

Patrick - are you speaking about keeping your backside dry traversing deep
puddles and gutters AFTER the downpour or during? I say during a downpour,
your backside is getting wet from above enough such that any tire spray
from below is negligible in terms of wetness, though it may be more foul
from below, but yes, after a downpour, fenders will work wonders in any
depth of water to keep spray off of the feet and the back.

I'll post up some Space Horse Disc thoughts over on iBob in the near future
- waiting for the new bike glow to wear down a bit to avoid an
overly-gushing review.

Regarding Thunder Burts - I can't compare the knobbies to Furious Freds,
but vs. my BG Rock n' Roads, the knobbies are downright diminutive. I'd not
sweat Thunder Burts under fenders remotely as much as I did the Rock n'
Roads.

On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Deacon and Jeff: thanks for the knobbies + fenders perspective. Reason for
> asking, one day I may swap the hardly-knobs F Freds for something more
> knobby, particularly as the Thunderburts are said to outroll even the F
> Freds.
>
> Question, Patrick: the Thunderburt knobs are hardly bigger than those on
> the F Freds. Still: are the knobs too big for comfort and fenders together?
> I suppose that by the time you are at the Racing Ralph or R size-knob,
> you are clearly at more risk.
>
> Jeff: I have to say that, from my experience with downpours that, in well
> under an hour, dump enough rain to flood my access road a good 6" above the
> 12" high bb of the Diamond Back mtb fixie I was riding, fenders still help
> to keep my saddle and backside dry. We get a citywide average of 8-9"/year,
> ranging from 14" or so at the Sandia foothills to 5" or so in some parts of
> the west mesa. Real gutters and drains are rare; most streets are
> themselves gutters, feeding runoff to a system of engineered arroyos; so
> that you often find yourself riding through a temporary river as runoff is
> shunted toward the curbs where cyclists ride.
>
> And, please post ride experience and photos of the new Space Horse. I am
> very, very chuffed at the so-large and ever growing "road bike for dirt"
> segment, and from the All City site, this seems to be a particularly
> elegant example, with a particularly elegant fork. (Me, I need fatter tires
> than 42s for our sandy conditions, whence the TCO compromise with the
> Matthews for 60s + fenders capability.)
>
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders - worth the safety risks? Rethinking my fender use.

2017-05-26 Thread Steve Palincsar

Now that one looks like it has a suspended rear.  I was wondering how 
they managed to suspend the rear wheel on that other one...



On 05/26/2017 06:42 PM, George Schick wrote:

Whoops, wrong bike. Here's the other one (hopefully):



On Friday, May 26, 2017 at 5:37:43 PM UTC-5, George Schick wrote:

Patrick and others - I'd say it all depends on the conditions in
which you're riding and the kind of bike you ride.  IOW, it's up
to the individual.  I live in an area where many of the trails are
constructed from compacted limestone "screenings," the finest
crushed stone and dust that winds up at the bottom of the
limestone quarry crushing machines.  In the drier Summer months
this stuff makes a fine riding surface for just about any bike.
 But in the early Spring and late Fall these trails get very
sloppy.  A MTB is preferred riding - or at least a flexible frame
road bike with knobby tires.  To this end, I ride a dual
suspension MTB during these time.  BUT, I always wound up with a
lot of mud from this stuff all over me and the frame.  So, I
decided to find a way to mount full fenders on this bike to
minimize the effects of the mud-spray (something I was told I
could not do with a dual-boing MTB, but decided to find a way to
do it anyway).  Here's a pic of the results and, yes, it works
without a problem with the knobby's:



On Friday, May 26, 2017 at 3:04:44 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:

I'm curious about others' thoughts about fenders and knobbies.
Fenders are most useful with knobbies, given that you ride
knobbies in dirty conditions, and because the knobs pick up
dirt. But I too would certainly hesitate more with this
combination.

Do some of y'all use fenders with knobby tires? Your
safeguards? Your reasons?

Me, I've used fenders off road for a long while, but I've also
run low-tread tires off road for a long time -- Big Apples
and, currently, Furious Freds, which have tiny little knoblets
not likely to pick up a stick. I /would/ have installed
regular, strutted fenders on my erstwhile Santa Cruz Bontrager
Race Lite, with 2.3" Maxxis Ikons, if the frame easily took
fenders, but it didn't and, rather than hack it, I installed a
long motocross-type fender in front (held on by a plug in the
steerer; no struts), and a shortie clip on in the back, both
supplemented by plastic bits zip tied to seat tube and down
tube (pretty effective, if I do say so myself, but ugly).

I suppose I'd /be inclined/ to use regular fenders, say Planet
Bike Cacadias, with knobbies if I had at least 2 cm of air
under them, and if I could attach the front struts halfway up
the fork.

FWIW, I do use Cascadias with the F Freds on the Matthews,
with the front struts bolted way high up on the inside top
lowrider bosses. Not too much triangulation there, but while
the front fender does sway a bit, it doesn't rattle. (And,
because the Matthews has bigly TCO, I am always kicking this
fender; it gets up, shakes its head, and keeps on going.) The
rear is a shorty because I hate bashing rear fenders against
things.

Inline image 1

On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 1:15 PM, Stuart Lovinggood
 wrote:

I want to like fenders, I really do. I know they're
practical and all. But I also really want to run knobbies
from time to time. And even though I have slicks on my
Joe, they are 53mm wide and the 65mm wide fenders are just
a lot to contend with. And so far these fenders have done
a lot to distract from riding, with all the swaying and
rattling and spooky noises. Maybe if I end up getting a
bike with narrower tires that I'm less likely to ride off
into the woods on, I'll get a nice set of metal fenders
and have them tuned up by a fender whisperer.

On Friday, May 26, 2017 at 7:11:18 AM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:

Stuart, I'm in Bulverde (1400' el) and run full-time
fenders on 2 bikes, and clip-ons on a 3rd.  I rarely
see other bikes with fenders (except my friends), and
wonder why more people here don't use them.




We're overdue for a June with monsoons


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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders - worth the safety risks? Rethinking my fender use.

2017-05-26 Thread Deacon Patrick

Oddly I do not notice more detritus pickup with Racing Ralphs than Thunder 
Burts, though I certainly imagine they do, it's just not noticeable.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Friday, May 26, 2017 at 4:31:14 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>
> Question, Patrick: the Thunderburt knobs are hardly bigger than those on 
> the F Freds. Still: are the knobs too big for comfort and fenders together? 
> I suppose that by the time you are at the Racing Ralph or R size-knob, 
> you are clearly at more risk. 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders - worth the safety risks? Rethinking my fender use.

2017-05-26 Thread George Schick

Whoops, wrong bike. Here's the other one (hopefully):



On Friday, May 26, 2017 at 5:37:43 PM UTC-5, George Schick wrote:
>
> Patrick and others - I'd say it all depends on the conditions in which 
> you're riding and the kind of bike you ride.  IOW, it's up to the 
> individual.  I live in an area where many of the trails are constructed 
> from compacted limestone "screenings," the finest crushed stone and dust 
> that winds up at the bottom of the limestone quarry crushing machines.  In 
> the drier Summer months this stuff makes a fine riding surface for just 
> about any bike.  But in the early Spring and late Fall these trails get 
> very sloppy.  A MTB is preferred riding - or at least a flexible frame road 
> bike with knobby tires.  To this end, I ride a dual suspension MTB during 
> these time.  BUT, I always wound up with a lot of mud from this stuff all 
> over me and the frame.  So, I decided to find a way to mount full fenders 
> on this bike to minimize the effects of the mud-spray (something I was told 
> I could not do with a dual-boing MTB, but decided to find a way to do it 
> anyway).  Here's a pic of the results and, yes, it works without a problem 
> with the knobby's:
>
>
>
> On Friday, May 26, 2017 at 3:04:44 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> I'm curious about others' thoughts about fenders and knobbies. Fenders 
>> are most useful with knobbies, given that you ride knobbies in dirty 
>> conditions, and because the knobs pick up dirt. But I too would certainly 
>> hesitate more with this combination.
>>
>> Do some of y'all use fenders with knobby tires? Your safeguards? Your 
>> reasons?
>>
>> Me, I've used fenders off road for a long while, but I've also run 
>> low-tread tires off road for a long time -- Big Apples and, currently, 
>> Furious Freds, which have tiny little knoblets not likely to pick up a 
>> stick. I *would* have installed regular, strutted fenders on my 
>> erstwhile Santa Cruz Bontrager Race Lite, with 2.3" Maxxis Ikons, if the 
>> frame easily took fenders, but it didn't and, rather than hack it, I 
>> installed a long motocross-type fender in front (held on by a plug in the 
>> steerer; no struts), and a shortie clip on in the back, both supplemented 
>> by plastic bits zip tied to seat tube and down tube (pretty effective, if I 
>> do say so myself, but ugly).
>>
>> I suppose I'd *be inclined* to use regular fenders, say Planet Bike 
>> Cacadias, with knobbies if I had at least 2 cm of air under them, and if I 
>> could attach the front struts halfway up the fork.
>>
>> FWIW, I do use Cascadias with the F Freds on the Matthews, with the front 
>> struts bolted way high up on the inside top lowrider bosses. Not too much 
>> triangulation there, but while the front fender does sway a bit, it doesn't 
>> rattle. (And, because the Matthews has bigly TCO, I am always kicking this 
>> fender; it gets up, shakes its head, and keeps on going.) The rear is a 
>> shorty because I hate bashing rear fenders against things.
>>
>> [image: Inline image 1]
>>
>> On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 1:15 PM, Stuart Lovinggood  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I want to like fenders, I really do. I know they're practical and all. 
>>> But I also really want to run knobbies from time to time. And even though I 
>>> have slicks on my Joe, they are 53mm wide and the 65mm wide fenders are 
>>> just a lot to contend with. And so far these fenders have done a lot to 
>>> distract from riding, with all the swaying and rattling and spooky noises. 
>>> Maybe if I end up getting a bike with narrower tires that I'm less likely 
>>> to ride off into the woods on, I'll get a nice set of metal fenders and 
>>> have them tuned up by a fender whisperer. 
>>>
>>> On Friday, May 26, 2017 at 7:11:18 AM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:

 Stuart, I'm in Bulverde (1400' el) and run full-time fenders on 2 
 bikes, and clip-ons on a 3rd.  I rarely see other bikes with fenders 
 (except my friends), and wonder why more people here don't use them.  


 

 We're overdue for a June with monsoons

 -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> *30% Supply and Demand discount, listmembers only, on all resume, 
>> LinkedIn, and writing services, until Demand equals Supply! And there's 
>> more! 10% kickback for any referral resulting in fully paid, list-price 
>> contract. And still more!  I am offering services in trade for a road bike, 
>> or

Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders - worth the safety risks? Rethinking my fender use.

2017-05-26 Thread Patrick Moore

Deacon and Jeff: thanks for the knobbies + fenders perspective. Reason for
asking, one day I may swap the hardly-knobs F Freds for something more
knobby, particularly as the Thunderburts are said to outroll even the F
Freds.

Question, Patrick: the Thunderburt knobs are hardly bigger than those on
the F Freds. Still: are the knobs too big for comfort and fenders together?
I suppose that by the time you are at the Racing Ralph or R size-knob,
you are clearly at more risk.

Jeff: I have to say that, from my experience with downpours that, in well
under an hour, dump enough rain to flood my access road a good 6" above the
12" high bb of the Diamond Back mtb fixie I was riding, fenders still help
to keep my saddle and backside dry. We get a citywide average of 8-9"/year,
ranging from 14" or so at the Sandia foothills to 5" or so in some parts of
the west mesa. Real gutters and drains are rare; most streets are
themselves gutters, feeding runoff to a system of engineered arroyos; so
that you often find yourself riding through a temporary river as runoff is
shunted toward the curbs where cyclists ride.

And, please post ride experience and photos of the new Space Horse. I am
very, very chuffed at the so-large and ever growing "road bike for dirt"
segment, and from the All City site, this seems to be a particularly
elegant example, with a particularly elegant fork. (Me, I need fatter tires
than 42s for our sandy conditions, whence the TCO compromise with the
Matthews for 60s + fenders capability.)

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders - worth the safety risks? Rethinking my fender use.

2017-05-26 Thread Deacon Patrick

Thinking about how to best answer your question, Patrick, I realized it is 
a blog post. So here you 
go. http://thegrid.ai/withabandon/fenders-and-knobbies

With abandon,
Patrick

On Friday, May 26, 2017 at 2:04:44 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> I'm curious about others' thoughts about fenders and knobbies. Fenders are 
> most useful with knobbies, given that you ride knobbies in dirty 
> conditions, and because the knobs pick up dirt. But I too would certainly 
> hesitate more with this combination.
>
> Do some of y'all use fenders with knobby tires? Your safeguards? Your 
> reasons?
>
> Me, I've used fenders off road for a long while, but I've also run 
> low-tread tires off road for a long time -- Big Apples and, currently, 
> Furious Freds, which have tiny little knoblets not likely to pick up a 
> stick. I *would* have installed regular, strutted fenders on my erstwhile 
> Santa Cruz Bontrager Race Lite, with 2.3" Maxxis Ikons, if the frame easily 
> took fenders, but it didn't and, rather than hack it, I installed a long 
> motocross-type fender in front (held on by a plug in the steerer; no 
> struts), and a shortie clip on in the back, both supplemented by plastic 
> bits zip tied to seat tube and down tube (pretty effective, if I do say so 
> myself, but ugly).
>
> I suppose I'd *be inclined* to use regular fenders, say Planet Bike 
> Cacadias, with knobbies if I had at least 2 cm of air under them, and if I 
> could attach the front struts halfway up the fork.
>
> FWIW, I do use Cascadias with the F Freds on the Matthews, with the front 
> struts bolted way high up on the inside top lowrider bosses. Not too much 
> triangulation there, but while the front fender does sway a bit, it doesn't 
> rattle. (And, because the Matthews has bigly TCO, I am always kicking this 
> fender; it gets up, shakes its head, and keeps on going.) The rear is a 
> shorty because I hate bashing rear fenders against things.
>
> [image: Inline image 1]
>
> On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 1:15 PM, Stuart Lovinggood  > wrote:
>
>> I want to like fenders, I really do. I know they're practical and all. 
>> But I also really want to run knobbies from time to time. And even though I 
>> have slicks on my Joe, they are 53mm wide and the 65mm wide fenders are 
>> just a lot to contend with. And so far these fenders have done a lot to 
>> distract from riding, with all the swaying and rattling and spooky noises. 
>> Maybe if I end up getting a bike with narrower tires that I'm less likely 
>> to ride off into the woods on, I'll get a nice set of metal fenders and 
>> have them tuned up by a fender whisperer. 
>>
>> On Friday, May 26, 2017 at 7:11:18 AM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:
>>>
>>> Stuart, I'm in Bulverde (1400' el) and run full-time fenders on 2 bikes, 
>>> and clip-ons on a 3rd.  I rarely see other bikes with fenders (except my 
>>> friends), and wonder why more people here don't use them.  
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> We're overdue for a June with monsoons
>>>
>>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com .
>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com 
>> .
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> *30% Supply and Demand discount, listmembers only, on all resume, 
> LinkedIn, and writing services, until Demand equals Supply! And there's 
> more! 10% kickback for any referral resulting in fully paid, list-price 
> contract. And still more!  I am offering services in trade for a road bike, 
> or frame and parts, that are period compatible with my AM hub, circa 1937 
> to 1961. See my website for what I do and what I charge; email for details.*
>
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> Other professional writing services.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
> **
> **
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders: Cream or Silver?

2015-08-20 Thread davidcha

Just to throw a curveball your way, what about black hammered fenders?  
Handsome makes some pretty nice looking ones in 2 sizes, and they might be 
easier to keep clean than either cream or silver ones...here's a link: 
http://handsomecycles.com/products/black-fenders?variant=1225965185

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders: Cream or Silver?

2015-08-20 Thread Chris Chen

They match very very well.

On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 11:13 AM, Ryan Fleming ryanmalloryflem...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 What did you end up buying by the way? Yeah, a neat new bike does make you
 fell like Christmas morning when you're 10 years old

 Silver fenders do look nice, but I suspect the SKS Cream longboards are a
 pretty decent match for the cream headtube. Whatever you decide, post
 pictures.

 Enjoy!

 Ryan in Winnipeg


 On Thursday, August 20, 2015 at 12:19:58 PM UTC-5, Fred Craven wrote:

 I put wider tires on my Rivendell and the existing fenders are, now, too
 narrow. So, I'm getting wider ones.

 Silver is an old standby (very nice; classic) But I also like the idea of
 cream fenders.
 Does the Cream match, or mostly match, the Riv Headtube Cream?

 Since Rivendell sells the cream, I assume that it looks fine, but I
 appreciate your input.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders: Cream or Silver?

2015-08-20 Thread Philip Williamson

Well done! I've followed that bike and color since Joel Green became a thing 
(my middle name is Joel, my favorite color is green). Very nice. 
Happy travels with it and your blog!

Philip
www.biketinker.com

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders: Cream or Silver?

2015-08-20 Thread Fred Craven

And the winner is: Silver. 

After consulting with my Local Bike Shop, I agreed that since the handlebar 
tape will be pink and orange, that that is enough eccentricity for a Rivendell. 
 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders: Cream or Silver?

2015-08-20 Thread Fred Craven



 The headtube doesn't look cream in those photos.  It looks closer to 
 white, like the Atlantis headtube.  

 Of course, it could just be the lighting.


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-iUkfOydDxuA/VdY71eEg1kI/ANA/EKuQEEN3BGc/s1600/Basic%2BBike.jpg
Well, actually it is a rather light cream. Next to the green, it kind of 
looks white. Here's what she looks like the garage. (the pretty blue spill 
is not toxic)

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders: Cream or Silver?

2015-08-20 Thread Tim Gavin

Ok, I can see it.

I think it's a lighter shade of cream than that on my Riv, so my color
comparison isn't germane.

The cream SKS fenders are nice. I got lots of compliments on them. They
do not have the center stripe that silver and black SKS fenders have.

On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 3:44 PM, Fred Craven f...@harmonic-data.com wrote:

The headtube doesn't look cream in those photos. It looks closer to
white, like the Atlantis headtube.

Of course, it could just be the lighting.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-iUkfOydDxuA/VdY71eEg1kI/ANA/EKuQEEN3BGc/s1600/Basic%2BBike.jpg
Well, actually it is a rather light cream. Next to the green, it kind of
looks white. Here's what she looks like the garage. (the pretty blue spill
is not toxic)

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders: Cream or Silver?

2015-08-20 Thread Tim Gavin

Fred-

The headtube doesn't look cream in those photos.  It looks closer to white,
like the Atlantis headtube.

Of course, it could just be the lighting.

On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 2:38 PM, Fred Craven f...@harmonic-data.com wrote:


 What did you end up buying by the way?


 I bought Joel Stern's 56cm short top tubed Joel Green Custom Road. as
 seen on my blog http://fredcraven.com/2015/08/02/it-begins/. Photos to
 come.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders: Cream or Silver?

2015-08-20 Thread Ryan Fleming

Very nice! Joel Stern seems like a heck of a nice fellow...and I'm so sorry 
he's not riding these days. Looks like the bike found a good home and I'm 
sure it's the right choice to rediscover your love of cycling. That is a 
beautiful colour; I've always liked it.

On Thursday, August 20, 2015 at 3:44:11 PM UTC-5, Fred Craven wrote:


 The headtube doesn't look cream in those photos.  It looks closer to 
 white, like the Atlantis headtube.  

 Of course, it could just be the lighting.



 https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-iUkfOydDxuA/VdY71eEg1kI/ANA/EKuQEEN3BGc/s1600/Basic%2BBike.jpg
 Well, actually it is a rather light cream. Next to the green, it kind of 
 looks white. Here's what she looks like the garage. (the pretty blue spill 
 is not toxic)


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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders in Summer

2015-07-30 Thread Daniel D.

What's so hard about understanding the when  appropriate is implicit.. 
 There's little activity you can't envision an inconsiderate way to engage 
in it.  You can be wearing tweed while riding a penny fairing, scoffing at 
the racer wannabes around yet be the most dangerous rude person on the MUP.

On Thursday, July 30, 2015 at 3:53:50 AM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:

 Let me paraphrase what he said:  Throw your leg over a racing bike and 
 pretend you're racing, leading the pack up a mountain.  What could 
 possibly go wrong?   I merely pointed out one very common thing that in 
 fact does go wrong when people do that.   Why is that so hard to 
 understand? 


 On 07/30/2015 12:35 AM, Evan E. wrote: 
  Congratulations, Eric. You made a good point and you expressed it 
  well--and Steve found a way to criticize it.  :) 
  
  



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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders in Summer

2015-07-30 Thread Steve Palincsar

Let me paraphrase what he said:  Throw your leg over a racing bike and 
pretend you're racing, leading the pack up a mountain.  What could 
possibly go wrong?   I merely pointed out one very common thing that in 
fact does go wrong when people do that.   Why is that so hard to understand?



On 07/30/2015 12:35 AM, Evan E. wrote:
Congratulations, Eric. You made a good point and you expressed it 
well--and Steve found a way to criticize it.  :)





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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders in Summer

2015-07-29 Thread Jan Heine



https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-3ulEle6-vVY/VbjsmDMkKbI/A9c/lBpA-A6nCag/s1600/MotoGP2015-Desmosedici_Standard-01_634x357_634x357.jpg


It does not appear the photo of the fastest two-wheeler (that can actually 
go around corners) uploaded, so here it is again. Fenders are part of the 
aero package.


Jan Heine
Editor
Bicycle Quarterly
www.bikequarterly.com

Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-3ulEle6-vVY/VbjsmDMkKbI/A9c/lBpA-A6nCag/s1600/MotoGP2015-Desmosedici_Standard-01_634x357_634x357.jpg

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders in Summer

2015-07-29 Thread Steve Palincsar




On 07/29/2015 05:53 PM, Eric Norris wrote:


There are all kinds of fun, including the kind that involves dressing 
up in lycra, swinging your leg over a carbon wonderbike, hitting the 
bike path, and believing in your own mind, for just a little while, 
that you’re leading the pack up the Alp d'Huez.


I repeat: Where’s the harm in that?


Even a single rider riding like that on the local MUP is a great way to 
cause accidents, plenty of harm there.


Then, there was the local racing club that used to come out en mass, 30+ 
strong, on a Friday morning and ride from Arlington north to downtown DC 
on the Mount Vernon Trail in a double paceline that liteerally took up 
both lanes of the bike trail.  Commuters headed south were forced off 
the trail onto the grass, and I saw a crash at the construction zone at 
one of the bridges at National Airport as a south-bound rider was forced 
off the trail.  Plenty of harm there.


I wrote to the president of that club and told them if they didn't stop 
I'd contact the Park Service and get them banned from using the trail, 
and that ride ended.



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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders in Summer

2015-07-29 Thread Eric Norris

Because … it’s … FUN!

Let’s all go back into the past for a second or two … 

Didn’t anybody else here ever make believe they were the world’s fastest 
cyclist when you were a kid? I know *I* did. My friends and I used to put 
number plates on our Sting-Rays and make motorcycle noises while pedaling as 
hard as we could. It felt great. 

Have some of the people on this list forgotten those long ago, happy days?

Now that we’re adults and have the money, we can indulge the child inside us 
and ride a bike that looks just like the one that the guy who won the Tor de 
France used. Sure, it’s not going to be able to carry a load of groceries home. 
Sure, it’s not “practical” in some senses of that word. Sure, it encourages you 
to ride in a “racing posture.” That’s the point! You’re a racer! You’re fast! 
You’re riding a cutting edge, carbon fiber bike! Whee!

And where’s the harm in that? We all know that some bike shops oversell the 
latest carbon racing machines. But that’s where you have to give some credit to 
the guy or gal who’s buying the bike. There are lots of choices in bikes out 
there, and I don’t see anybody twisting arms to get riders on the latest Trek 
or Pinarello. For the same reasons, I don’t look at someone driving a 
two-seater sports car and wonder who snookered them into buying it. Is a Mazda 
Miata “practical”? Depends on how you define that, but probably not. But so 
what? It’s fun! (I should know, my wife has one.)

There are all kinds of fun, including the kind that involves dressing up in 
lycra, swinging your leg over a carbon wonderbike, hitting the bike path, and 
believing in your own mind, for just a little while, that you’re leading the 
pack up the Alp d'Huez. 

I repeat: Where’s the harm in that? 

Remember, the book is “Just Ride,” not “Just Ride the Way I Do.” 

--Eric N
campyonly...@me.com
www.CampyOnly.com
Campyonlyguy.blogspot.com
@Campyonlyguy


 On Jul 29, 2015, at 12:46 PM, Daniel D. dddon...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 why is it so many people think that they should ride the equivalent bike on 
 the street and/or bike trail when they are not even in a race?

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders in Summer

2015-07-29 Thread Daniel D.

I'm sure plenty of people would if they had a spare 7 million dollars 
burning a hole in their pocket.  

On Wednesday, July 29, 2015 at 4:45:59 AM UTC-7, Doug Williams wrote:

 Yes but...does anyone commute in a car like that? How many people drive a 
 car like that on the road? How many people train in a car like that 
 outside of a race? Everyone recognizes that a car like that is fragile and 
 maintenance intensive; completely impractical for normal use. Given that, 
 why is it so many people think that they should ride the equivalent bike on 
 the street and/or bike trail when they are not even in a race?

 Grant is right on this: bike racing has ruined cycling for normal people.

 Doug

 On Wednesday, July 29, 2015 at 2:54:33 AM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:

 No fenders on this baby.

 [image: Inline image 1]

 On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 10:59 PM, Jan Heine hei...@earthlink.net wrote:

 https://janheine.wordpress.com/2012/03/31/taking-off-fenders/

 How many cyclists run fenders year-round on their cars? It still amazes 
 me that nobody thinks a Porsche or a Ferrari is less sporty for having 
 fenders and lights, but on a bike, it's still uncool in certain circles. ;-)

 Jan Heine
 Editor
 Bicycle Quarterly
 www.bikequarterly.com

 Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders in Summer

2015-07-29 Thread Daniel D.

I'm sure plenty of people would if they had a spare 16 million dollars 
lying around.  

On Wednesday, July 29, 2015 at 4:45:59 AM UTC-7, Doug Williams wrote:

 Yes but...does anyone commute in a car like that? How many people drive a 
 car like that on the road? How many people train in a car like that 
 outside of a race? Everyone recognizes that a car like that is fragile and 
 maintenance intensive; completely impractical for normal use. Given that, 
 why is it so many people think that they should ride the equivalent bike on 
 the street and/or bike trail when they are not even in a race?

 Grant is right on this: bike racing has ruined cycling for normal people.

 Doug

 On Wednesday, July 29, 2015 at 2:54:33 AM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:

 No fenders on this baby.

 [image: Inline image 1]

 On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 10:59 PM, Jan Heine hei...@earthlink.net wrote:

 https://janheine.wordpress.com/2012/03/31/taking-off-fenders/

 How many cyclists run fenders year-round on their cars? It still amazes 
 me that nobody thinks a Porsche or a Ferrari is less sporty for having 
 fenders and lights, but on a bike, it's still uncool in certain circles. ;-)

 Jan Heine
 Editor
 Bicycle Quarterly
 www.bikequarterly.com

 Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/

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 *
 *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a 
 circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and 
 individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu

 *Kinei hos eromenon. It moves as the being-loved. *Aristotle

 *The Love that moves the Sun and all the other stars. *Dante  
  


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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders in Summer

2015-07-29 Thread Daniel D.

put a jackhole on a BOBish bike they'd still ride like a jackhole..

On Wednesday, July 29, 2015 at 3:14:24 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:



 On 07/29/2015 05:53 PM, Eric Norris wrote: 
  
  There are all kinds of fun, including the kind that involves dressing 
  up in lycra, swinging your leg over a carbon wonderbike, hitting the 
  bike path, and believing in your own mind, for just a little while, 
  that you’re leading the pack up the Alp d'Huez. 
  
  I repeat: Where’s the harm in that? 

 Even a single rider riding like that on the local MUP is a great way to 
 cause accidents, plenty of harm there. 




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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders in Summer

2015-07-29 Thread Steve Palincsar

When you ride like you are ...*believing in your own mind, for just a 
little while, that you’re leading the pack up the Alp d'Huez*?There 
are many ways of having fun.  Pretending you are in a road race is just 
one of them.


On 07/29/2015 07:02 PM, Eric Norris wrote:

Well said. Since when does having fun translate into “riding like that”?

--Eric N
campyonly...@me.com mailto:campyonly...@me.com
www.CampyOnly.com
Campyonlyguy.blogspot.com
@Campyonlyguy


On Jul 29, 2015, at 3:56 PM, Daniel D. dddon...@gmail.com 
mailto:dddon...@gmail.com wrote:


put a jackhole on a BOBish bike they'd still ride like a jackhole..

On Wednesday, July 29, 2015 at 3:14:24 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:



On 07/29/2015 05:53 PM, Eric Norris wrote:

 There are all kinds of fun, including the kind that involves
dressing
 up in lycra, swinging your leg over a carbon wonderbike,
hitting the
 bike path, and believing in your own mind, for just a little
while,
 that you’re leading the pack up the Alp d'Huez.

 I repeat: Where’s the harm in that?

Even a single rider riding like that on the local MUP is a great
way to
cause accidents, plenty of harm there.



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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders in Summer

2015-07-29 Thread Daniel D.

where does he mention doing it on a crowded MUP or other similarly 
inappropriate route?

On Wednesday, July 29, 2015 at 4:06:01 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:

  When you ride like you are ...*believing in your own mind, for just a 
 little while, that you’re leading the pack up the Alp d'Huez*?There 
 are many ways of having fun.  Pretending you are in a road race is just one 
 of them.

 On 07/29/2015 07:02 PM, Eric Norris wrote:
  
 Well said. Since when does having fun translate into “riding like that”? 

  --Eric N
 campyo...@me.com javascript:
 www.CampyOnly.com
 Campyonlyguy.blogspot.com
 @Campyonlyguy

  
  On Jul 29, 2015, at 3:56 PM, Daniel D. dddo...@gmail.com javascript: 
 wrote:

  put a jackhole on a BOBish bike they'd still ride like a jackhole..

 On Wednesday, July 29, 2015 at 3:14:24 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote: 



 On 07/29/2015 05:53 PM, Eric Norris wrote: 
  
  There are all kinds of fun, including the kind that involves dressing 
  up in lycra, swinging your leg over a carbon wonderbike, hitting the 
  bike path, and believing in your own mind, for just a little while, 
  that you’re leading the pack up the Alp d'Huez. 
  
  I repeat: Where’s the harm in that? 

 Even a single rider riding like that on the local MUP is a great way to 
 cause accidents, plenty of harm there. 


  
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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders in Summer

2015-07-29 Thread Eric Norris

Well said. Since when does having fun translate into “riding like that”? 

--Eric N
campyonly...@me.com
www.CampyOnly.com
Campyonlyguy.blogspot.com
@Campyonlyguy


 On Jul 29, 2015, at 3:56 PM, Daniel D. dddon...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 put a jackhole on a BOBish bike they'd still ride like a jackhole..
 
 On Wednesday, July 29, 2015 at 3:14:24 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:
 
 
 On 07/29/2015 05:53 PM, Eric Norris wrote: 
  
  There are all kinds of fun, including the kind that involves dressing 
  up in lycra, swinging your leg over a carbon wonderbike, hitting the 
  bike path, and believing in your own mind, for just a little while, 
  that you’re leading the pack up the Alp d'Huez. 
  
  I repeat: Where’s the harm in that? 
 
 Even a single rider riding like that on the local MUP is a great way to 
 cause accidents, plenty of harm there. 
 
 
 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders in Summer

2015-07-29 Thread Steve Palincsar

He said doing it, *where's the harm*; I said doing it on a MUP (as so 
many do) could indeed create harm.  Obviously, you don't have to do it 
on a MUP; but we often see pathaletes doing it.


On 07/29/2015 07:12 PM, Daniel D. wrote:
where does he mention doing it on a crowded MUP or other similarly 
inappropriate route?


On Wednesday, July 29, 2015 at 4:06:01 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:

When you ride like you are ...*believing in your own mind, for
just a little while, that you’re leading the pack up the Alp
d'Huez*? There are many ways of having fun.  Pretending you are
in a road race is just one of them.

On 07/29/2015 07:02 PM, Eric Norris wrote:

Well said. Since when does having fun translate into “riding like
that”?

--Eric N
campyo...@me.com javascript:
www.CampyOnly.com http://www.CampyOnly.com
Campyonlyguy.blogspot.com http://Campyonlyguy.blogspot.com
@Campyonlyguy



On Jul 29, 2015, at 3:56 PM, Daniel D. dddo...@gmail.com
javascript: wrote:

put a jackhole on a BOBish bike they'd still ride like a jackhole..

On Wednesday, July 29, 2015 at 3:14:24 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar
wrote:



On 07/29/2015 05:53 PM, Eric Norris wrote:

 There are all kinds of fun, including the kind that
involves dressing
 up in lycra, swinging your leg over a carbon wonderbike,
hitting the
 bike path, and believing in your own mind, for just a
little while,
 that you’re leading the pack up the Alp d'Huez.

 I repeat: Where’s the harm in that?

Even a single rider riding like that on the local MUP is a
great way to
cause accidents, plenty of harm there.



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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders in Summer

2015-07-29 Thread Evan E.

Congratulations, Eric. You made a good point and you expressed it well--and 
Steve found a way to criticize it.  :)


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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders in Summer

2015-07-29 Thread Doug Williams

Yes but...does anyone commute in a car like that? How many people drive a 
car like that on the road? How many people train in a car like that 
outside of a race? Everyone recognizes that a car like that is fragile and 
maintenance intensive; completely impractical for normal use. Given that, 
why is it so many people think that they should ride the equivalent bike on 
the street and/or bike trail when they are not even in a race?

Grant is right on this: bike racing has ruined cycling for normal people.

Doug

On Wednesday, July 29, 2015 at 2:54:33 AM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:

 No fenders on this baby.

 [image: Inline image 1]

 On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 10:59 PM, Jan Heine hei...@earthlink.net 
 javascript: wrote:

 https://janheine.wordpress.com/2012/03/31/taking-off-fenders/

 How many cyclists run fenders year-round on their cars? It still amazes 
 me that nobody thinks a Porsche or a Ferrari is less sporty for having 
 fenders and lights, but on a bike, it's still uncool in certain circles. ;-)

 Jan Heine
 Editor
 Bicycle Quarterly
 www.bikequarterly.com

 Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders in Summer

2015-07-29 Thread Bruce

My wife and I spent a rainy May day biking around Mackinaw Island in Michigan, 
famous for having no cars and lots of horses. Our bikes were fenderless. 
Needless to say, we were covered, butt to brainpan, with . . . Everyone on the 
island rides bikes, good, stout, basketed work bikes, all with fenders. I know 
why.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders in Summer

2015-07-29 Thread Jan Heine

Formula 1 cars don't have fenders because the rules don't allow them. 
Sports cars (like the ones that race at Le Mans) have fenders and are way 
faster, because they are more aerodynamic...

Shielding the wheels from the airstream actually makes you faster, which is 
why racing motorbikes have fenders. (Neither kickstands nor lights, though!)



Seriously, Bicycle Quarterly tested fenders in the wind tunnel and found 
that the forward extension makes the bike more aerodynamic, the rearward 
one less, and the overall effect is zero.

Jan Heine
Editor
Bicycle Quarterly
www.bikequarterly.com

Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/

On Wednesday, July 29, 2015 at 2:54:33 AM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:

 No fenders on this baby.

 [image: Inline image 1]

 On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 10:59 PM, Jan Heine hei...@earthlink.net 
 javascript: wrote:

 https://janheine.wordpress.com/2012/03/31/taking-off-fenders/

 How many cyclists run fenders year-round on their cars? It still amazes 
 me that nobody thinks a Porsche or a Ferrari is less sporty for having 
 fenders and lights, but on a bike, it's still uncool in certain circles. ;-)

 Jan Heine
 Editor
 Bicycle Quarterly
 www.bikequarterly.com

 Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/

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 *
 *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a 
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 individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu

 *Kinei hos eromenon. It moves as the being-loved. *Aristotle

 *The Love that moves the Sun and all the other stars. *Dante  
  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders and Rams

2012-11-13 Thread Bruce Herbitter

The Road does well as a 650B convert. Several have posted to the list on
how their bikes came out.  Here's mine showing RBW Maxy Fastys (36s) It has
over 3,600 miles since the conversion.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9535930@N07/7030586049/in/set-72157612148124190




 On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 5:06 PM, Jim Cloud cloud...@aol.com wrote:
 
  With the bottom bracket drop of a Rivendell Road Standard it would not
  be a good candidate for a conversion to 650B size.
 
  On Nov 12, 5:42 pm, Bruce Herbitter bruce.herbit...@gmail.com wrote:
   Ram was spec'd fits up to 38c tires or 35c with fenders. This from
 the
   2007 webalog. You can probably use the waybackmachine to go look.  I
 have
   37s on my Ram right now and it is not maxed out.
  
   38s also fit a Road or Road Standard, but only if you convert to 650B
 :)
 



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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders and Rams

2012-11-12 Thread Bruce Herbitter

Ram was spec'd fits up to 38c tires or 35c with fenders. This from the
2007 webalog. You can probably use the waybackmachine to go look.  I have
37s on my Ram right now and it is not maxed out.

38s also fit a Road or Road Standard, but only if you convert to 650B :)


On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 12:41 PM, Jim Cloud cloud...@aol.com wrote:

 I don't think the Rambouillet was designed to accommodate fenders with
 tire as wide as 32mm.


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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders and Rams

2012-11-12 Thread Toshi Takeuchi

I don't know about the Riv Road, but I just showed that the Ram (while not
fitting in the recommended drop range for a 650b conversion), with 42mm
650b Hetre tires has a bottom bracket height of 260 mm, which is within the
range of the acceptable minimum as defined by Riv. (see
www.cyclofiend.com/Images/rbw/.../original_N_3_DROP.pdf)

The bike rides great and fits longboard fenders.  As the lucky owner of
both a 54cm 650b A Homer Hilsen and a 54cm 650b Rambouillet conversion, I
see no reason to wrangle with riding 32s vs 30 and getting fenders on the
Ram (other than the change in wheels) when the conversion rides like a
dream. I live in prime bike riding territory in the Oakland hills, and if
anyone wants a test ride let me know.

Best,
Toshi Takeuchi in Oakland, CA




On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 5:06 PM, Jim Cloud cloud...@aol.com wrote:

 With the bottom bracket drop of a Rivendell Road Standard it would not
 be a good candidate for a conversion to 650B size.  Bottom bracket
 drop is 75mm, Rivendell recommends BB drop of 70mm or less for a 700c
 to 650b conversion  - http://www.rivbike.com/kb_results.asp?ID=64

 Jim Cloud
 Tucson, AZ

 On Nov 12, 5:42 pm, Bruce Herbitter bruce.herbit...@gmail.com wrote:
  Ram was spec'd fits up to 38c tires or 35c with fenders. This from the
  2007 webalog. You can probably use the waybackmachine to go look.  I
have
  37s on my Ram right now and it is not maxed out.
 
  38s also fit a Road or Road Standard, but only if you convert to 650B :)
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 12:41 PM, Jim Cloud cloud...@aol.com wrote:
   I don't think the Rambouillet was designed to accommodate fenders with
   tire as wide as 32mm.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders and Rams

2012-11-12 Thread Steve Palincsar

On Mon, 2012-11-12 at 17:06 -0800, Jim Cloud wrote:
 With the bottom bracket drop of a Rivendell Road Standard it would not
 be a good candidate for a conversion to 650B size.  Bottom bracket
 drop is 75mm, Rivendell recommends BB drop of 70mm or less for a 700c
 to 650b conversion  - http://www.rivbike.com/kb_results.asp?ID=64

Is it lower than a Rambouillet?  Because people have successfully
converted those.  



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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders and Rams

2012-11-12 Thread James Warren

And to strengthen the argument by 2 mm, the Ram's BB drop is 77 mm, while the aforementioned Riv has 75 mm.

This 650B Hetre Ram developmentis messing me up: temptation to do it versus "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." I'm right about at my 5 year anniversery of my commitment to Jack Brown greens on the Ram.

-Jim W.

-Original Message- From: Toshi Takeuchi <tto...@gmail.com>Sent: Nov 12, 2012 6:45 PM To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders and Rams I don't know about the Riv Road, but I just showed that the Ram (while not fitting in the recommended drop range for a 650b conversion), with 42mm 650b Hetre tires has a bottom bracket height of 260 mm, which is within the range of the acceptable minimum as defined by Riv. (see www.cyclofiend.com/Images/rbw/.../original_N_3_DROP.pdf)The bike rides great and fits longboard fenders. As the lucky owner of both a 54cm 650b A Homer Hilsen and a 54cm 650b Rambouillet conversion, I see no reason to wrangle with riding 32s vs 30 and getting fenders on the Ram (other than the change in wheels) when the conversion rides like a dream. I live in prime bike riding territory in the Oakland hills, and if anyone wants a test ride let me know.Best,Toshi Takeuchi in Oakland, CAOn Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 5:06 PM, Jim Cloud cloud...@aol.com wrote: With the bottom bracket drop of a Rivendell Road Standard it would not be a good candidate for a conversion to 650B size. Bottom bracket drop is 75mm, Rivendell recommends BB drop of 70mm or less for a 700c to 650b conversion - http://www.rivbike.com/kb_results.asp?ID=64 Jim Cloud Tucson, AZ On Nov 12, 5:42 pm, Bruce Herbitter bruce.herbit...@gmail.com wrote: Ram was spec'd "fits up to 38c tires or 35c with fenders." This from the 2007 "webalog. You can probably use the waybackmachine to go look. I have 37s on my Ram right now and it is not maxed out. 38s also fit a Road or Road Standard, but only if you convert to 650B :) On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 12:41 PM, Jim Cloud cloud...@aol.com wrote: I don't think the Rambouillet was designed to accommodate fenders with tire as wide as 32mm. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders/Tires for Rom

2012-01-06 Thread Steven Frederick

I own a Heron Road and a Rambouillet (and coincidently owned a
Waterford 1250).  The Heron Road and 1250 were pretty similar--the
Heron is a bit stiffer-tubed and sportier but they have about the same
fender clearance.  (i.e., not much).  The Rambouillet is a touch
longer and slightly less sporty and uses longer reach brakes so has
room for fatter tires and fenders.

Steve

On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 11:49 AM, Bill Carter billcar...@gmail.com wrote:


 On Jan 5, 12:12 am, cyclotourist cyclotour...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 1/4/12, Esteban kemm...@gmail.com wrote:
  Ride the Romulus as the classic road bike it is.

 This may be just a question of semantics, but I have always thought of
 the Ramboulliet/Romulus as a type of sports tourer bike.  Keep in mind
 I have never owned or ridden a Ram, but I do own a Heron Road I have
 ridden for years and more recently acquired a Waterford 1250, both of
 which are generally similar bikes to the Ram/Rom in my mind, and the
 type of bike I prefer for my on-road recreational use.  (I'm not going
 anywhere too fast anyhow, so I might as well be more comfortable.)  I
 run 28s without fenders on both bikes, but I may give 32s a try next
 time tires are needed.  I am not trying to be argumentative, just
 would like some clarification on the terminology from some of you more
 knowledgeable folks.  Is a classic road bike close to the same
 thing, or is sports tourer or light touring bike just some
 marketing mumbo jumbo?

 PS - I would love it if Grant/Riv would paint some Rodeo frames in the
 original Ram orange and badge and decal them as
 Ramboulliet 2s.  I'd probably sell every bike I've got to buy one of
 those.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders/Tires for Rom

2012-01-06 Thread Seth Vidal

On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 2:36 PM, Darin G. dbg...@mac.com wrote:
 I don't think I'd want to change the brake just to get .2mm of
 additional tire under a fender.  This bike already rides nicely. What
 I would want to do is squeeze every bit of comfort possible out of it
 for long rides without affecting its performance and generally sporty
 nature as I bought this precisely because I found my Sam sluggish for
 unladen or lightly-laden duty.  I have no desire to turn the Rom into
 a Sam and even if I were to hang the Sam's parts on an A.H.H. I would
 build it up with an eye towards comfort and carrying saddle bags,
 etc.  If I'm limited to a very smooth supple 28 tire on the Rom for
 sportier riding that's going to be just fine.


Darin,
 1. You can get the cypres under there, no problem. no change in brakes:
 2. As Manny would say:
   Pictures prove it: http://www.flickr.com/photos/skvidal/tags/romulus/

-sv

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders/Tires for Rom

2012-01-05 Thread Seth Vidal

On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 1:16 PM, Leslie leslie.bri...@gmail.com wrote:
 I've got VO 45 aluminum fenders on my Ram;  I started out w/ 32 Paselas but
 was having rubbing, especially under the fork, switched down to RuffyTuffys
 (28s).

 Through glass cuts in sidewalls, ended up putting a Pasela back on under the
 rear. That's how I'm currently riding, 32 in rear, 28 in front.  It's
 close, but no rubbing.

 I haven't tried SKS fenders, don't know how they'd do differently...


They don't have the extra material on the lip of the fender. so the
place where most of the rubbing occurs for me w/metal fenders doesn't
exist on the plastic fenders.

-sv

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders/Tires for Rom

2012-01-05 Thread Seth Vidal

On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 3:41 PM, Esteban kemm...@gmail.com wrote:
 28mm seems to be the practical limit with fenders on the Ram/Rom.



I promise I'm not making it up. :)


   http://www.flickr.com/photos/skvidal/6318127027/


The grand bois cypres.
SKS longboards.

The front rim is a synergy the rear is a salsa delgado cross.

-sv

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders/Tires for Rom

2012-01-05 Thread Seth Vidal

On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 2:50 PM, Joe Bernard joerem...@gmail.com wrote:
 I ran SKS35s with 28 Ruffy Tuffys. There's know way you're gonna get 32s on 
 the front with the stock Shimano brakes.


Are the longboards wider, then? B/c I don't have any problem with the shimanos.

-sv

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders/Tires for Rom

2012-01-04 Thread cyclotourist

On 1/4/12, Esteban kemm...@gmail.com wrote:
 Not with the stock brakes.  Just not gonna happen.  I think the flyer
 is overly optimistic.  SKS allow for more wiggle room than metal,
 maybe.  But not much

 For me, the limitations worked with the design of the bicycle.  While
 the Rom/Ram shines with 35s on mixed terrain rides, it was designed
 around those middle-reach brakes. It think the bike really shines with
 28s.  This was when the Atlantis was the Atlantis, and the Saluki was
 pulling country bike duty, and the Rom/Ram were versatileroad
 bikes.  This was before all bikes did all things.

 So, I'd say if you want fat tires and fenders, spring for an AHH.
 Ride the Romulus as the classic road bike it is.

 On Jan 4, 8:02 pm, Darin G. dbg...@mac.com wrote:
 The flyer indicates it can take up to a  35 with a fender,...

 http://cyclofiend.com/rbw/romulus/romflyer/03.html

 Maybe I need to consider a larger fender?

 On Jan 3, 1:41 pm, Esteban kemm...@gmail.com wrote:







  28mm seems to be the practical limit with fenders on the Ram/Rom.

  On Jan 3, 11:50 am, Joe Bernard joerem...@gmail.com wrote:

   I ran SKS35s with 28 Ruffy Tuffys. There's know way you're gonna get
   32s on the front with the stock Shimano brakes.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders/Tires for Rom

2012-01-04 Thread Joe Bernard

I ran 32 Paselas without fenders for some most-excellent trail riding, and 
35s would've worked, too. But not with fenders. You'll inevitably face 
various versions of tire rub, and particle-trapping under the fork. 
 
I did do a bodge of cut SKS fenders over the 32s for a while: fenders in 
front and behind the fork and seatstay bridge, no fender material actually 
under either. It successfully kept some water off bike-and-body, but it 
wasn't pretty. 
 
Joe Bernard
Vallejo, CA.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders and Speed

2010-11-04 Thread Ken Freeman

Fluted channels also add surface area, increasing the surface area of the
boundary layer. So does a fin. In addition the fin could add torque to the
fork/wheel/bar assembly in case of a crosswind. In case of a partial
headwind (direction of wind velocity is not parallel to the direction of
bike velocity), the laminar flow along the channels would be joined by some
lateral flow across the channels. Would this component be turbulent? I
dunno, but it's certainly not clear the channels or fins would do any good,
at least not to me.

I do keep thinking that in combination with a front fender extension like
Jan has talked about, a fitted back section of the front fender could direct
the air as it comes off the tire/rim so it flows behind the fender rather
than behind the tire. Somewhat like Zip's idea in integrating the shapes of
their aero tubular rim and their own tubular tire.

On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 12:32 PM, Allan in Portland
allan_f...@aracnet.comwrote:

No test to determine whether the hammered honjo, like dimples on a
golf ball, gives better aerodynamics than the smooth? :-) I've always
been partial to the fluted fenders. The flutes create laminar flow
channels at speeds above 32kph.

And speaking of aerodynamics, am I alone in having considered adding a
small, vertically mounted wing to the front of my fender so as to add
some high-speed steering stability to a low-trail bike?

-Allan

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders and Speed

2010-11-03 Thread Ken Freeman

Jan, what was the fender shape that you tested?

On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 9:24 PM, Jan Heine hein...@earthlink.net wrote:

We spent two days in the wind tunnel testing fenders, jackets, hand
position, lower handlebars, etc. The fenders made remarkably little
difference to aerodynamics. Of course, it probably depends on your
fenders, and if you have a front plastic fender that sticks up in the
air instead of following the curve of the tire, it may be different.
As Michael recalled, the ideal fender extends just forward of the fork
crown, and acts as a fairing for the tire. Everything else increases
drag. A full front fender still is better than nothing, as the fairing
effect outweighs the extra drag of the rear portion. Lowering you stem
by 20 mm had a great effect than most other changes, with the
exception of flapping jackets. Now that was a huge effect! Full
results are in Bicycle Quarterly Vol. 6, No. 1. (Commercial plug: Back
issues are available.)

Jan Heine
Editor
Bicycle Quarterly
http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com

Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/

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Ken Freeman
Ann Arbor, MI USA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders and Speed

2010-11-02 Thread Bruce

I put that off for two years, and finally took the honjos and racks off my 
Saluki. The staining from salty sweat was pretty severe and to get good elbow 
grease on them required removal. Two applications of Maguiar's Mag  Aluminum 
Polish has helped, but not made them like new yet. In the meanwhile, riding the 
bike in a more CX looking mode has been kind of cool as a nice change up.





From: EricP ericpl...@aol.com

Subject: [RBW] Re: Fenders and Speed

What is this theory of riding without fenders? 
Am just too lazy to take them off then put them on again.


  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders and Speed

2010-11-02 Thread Bruce

Thanks Jan. I'll give 'em a good coat once they're clean again and stay with 
it. 
Our Summer weather in the south is conducive to lots of perspiration.





From: Jan Heine hein...@earthlink.net

 If you want your fenders to resiststaining, put some car wax onto them before 
you install them, a



  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders and Speed

2010-11-02 Thread PATRICK MOORE

A few lbs of weight is almost meaningless for the average rider, at
least on flattish terrain. Wind and tire resistance is much more
noticeable; wind especially when you ride in a windy area.

As for fenders, I don't know if they are aero sluggards, but big,
square Axiom Dutch-style grocery panniers are, for sure.

On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 9:34 PM, Erik Powell puh@gmail.com wrote:

 Don't get me started on the speed-killing effects of a rear rack,
 panniers, and Col de la Vies.




 Erik

 On Nov 1, 7:15 pm, charlie charles_v...@hotmail.com wrote:
 I don't think my riding is slower when riding with fenders you could
 probably measure it and you would probably be infinitesimally slower.
 The benefits of having fenders would certainly outweigh any slight
 drop in speed I'm sure. I don't usually transport my bike and have
 never had the fenders get in the way when I do. You probably have a
 brake shoe rubbing or the wheel could be angled in the frame after
 installing the fenders, causing drag. Is your tire rubbing inside the
 fender ? If not, ignore the mild paranoia and ride through some mud
 puddles. Happy trails !!! = )

 On Nov 1, 8:51 am, Eric Norris campyonly...@me.com wrote:

  Any thoughts from other riders with fendered bikes about whether they make 
  your bike slower?  I've been riding my somewhat newly fendered Quickbeam 
  lately, and it seems to be a little more sluggish than I remember it being 
  in years past.

  --Eric N



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-- 
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Albuquerque, NM
For professional resumes, contact
Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumespecialt...@gmail.com

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RE: [RBW] Re: Fenders and Tire issues

2010-09-04 Thread Carl Otto Wollin

Hello Angus
Thank you for your comments!
How are the Panaracer Ribmos for touring, what are the actual with for that 
tire?
Regards
Carl Otto Wollin

 Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 04:57:15 -0700
 Subject: [RBW] Re: Fenders and Tire issues
 From: angusle...@sbcglobal.net
 To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com

 Carl,

 I have 26x2.0 on my All-Rounder and used the WIDE 26x65 SKS fenders
 from RBW.  Tires are 26x2.0 Panaracer Ribmos.

 http://www.flickr.com/photos/16951...@n08/4739412549/

 As stated on the RBW site they really are quite large, that helps in
 the wet.

 Angus

 On Sep 4, 4:05 am, Carl Otto Wollin carlottowol...@hotmail.com
 wrote:
  Hello RBW
  I´m looking for your help and addvice regarding fenders for my bike with 26 
  x 1.75 - 2.0 tires. The bike is my commuter/touring bike. What do you use 
  and reccomend I have looked in to the following fenders:
  Velo Orange 26 x 60 mm fenders in 
  aluminiumhttp://www.velo-orange.com/vo60fefor26w.html
  or steel:http://www.velo-orange.com/vo45ststfe1.html
  Are the Velo Orange similar to Berthoudhttp://www.wallbike.com/fenders.html
  Another alternative i sto use the 650 B x 50 mm 
  Honjo:http://www.velo-orange.com/ho50ha65fe.html
  Is the Radius the same between the 650 B and 26 inch (559), I´m thinking 
  about the Berthoud fender list 650 B x 
  50:http://www.wallbike.com/berthoud/fenderchart.pdf
  The tires I wan´t to use is either the 26 x 1.75 Panaracer Paselas or the 
  26 x 2.0 Schwalbe Marathon Supreme. I believe these tires has the same 
  actual with.
  Thank you beforehand
  All ideas, addvice are welcome!
  Regards
  Carl Otto Wollin  

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Re: [RBW] Re: fenders

2010-06-15 Thread Seth Vidal

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 11:38 AM, Esteban proto...@gmail.com wrote:
 I imagine (since we are talking about an imaginary bike), that the
 Racer Ms will allow 43mm Honjos and Jack Browns no problem.


I can't Collapse the waveform and force the bike into existence until
a box shows up and I can open it.- so it's not that the bike is
imaginary it is that I cannot know the state/position of the bike with
certainty.

surely you've read some modern physics books. :)

And I think this test with a bike is a lot more humane than w/a kitten.


 I think I've seen a Ram with such a set-up, but can't recall where.
 The Ram  Rom have the same clearances.

This thread:
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch/browse_thread/thread/2b7ab951a58ffb74/d550b72d297794b0?lnk=gstq=paul#d550b72d297794b0

and this image set

http://www.flickr.com/photos/27988...@n06/sets/72157623702627095/


 Wow. That set-up would be stellar!

perhaps, perhaps.

-sv

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Re: [RBW] Re: fenders

2010-06-15 Thread Seth Vidal

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 1:48 PM, Patrick in VT swing4...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Jun 15, 11:43 am, Seth Vidal skvi...@gmail.com wrote:

 I can't Collapse the waveform and force the bike into existence until
 a box shows up and I can open it.- so it's not that the bike is
 imaginary it is that I cannot know the state/position of the bike with
 certainty.

 surely you've read some modern physics books. :)

 And I think this test with a bike is a lot more humane than w/a kitten.

 what is it with bike geeks and schrodinger's cat?  what a wonderfully
 nerdy bunch.


I was a sysadmin in a physics department for 6yrs of my life - it's
hard to not absorb a certain  amount of it.

-sv

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Re: [RBW] Re: fenders

2010-06-15 Thread Steve Palincsar

On Tue, 2010-06-15 at 11:43 -0400, Seth Vidal wrote:
 
 I can't Collapse the waveform and force the bike into existence until
 a box shows up and I can open it.- so it's not that the bike is
 imaginary it is that I cannot know the state/position of the bike with
 certainty.

Yes, and if you peek, who knows, you might turn it into a girl's bike,
or kill it outright.  Oh, the uncertainty of it all!





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Re: [RBW] Re: fenders

2010-06-14 Thread Seth Vidal

On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 1:15 PM, MichaelH mhech...@gmail.com wrote:
 If you are talking about a plastic fender - SKS, Bertoud, etc - a 45
 will cover a Jack Brown and will, just barely, fit under shimano
 sidepulls.  However, a 45 in a metal fender  probably will not.  Steel
 and Al fenders both have rolled metal lips on them that take up about
 4 mm of space on either side of the fender, and the bolts, especially
 the through bolt from the fork crown sticks down inside the fender.
 Also these fenders seem to have considerable amount of mfg. variance.
 My Honjos actually measure 43mm and a 32mm tire would be two tight for
 every day use.  I run 28's on my Rambouillet, with Honjos and that
 works perfectly.

 As a general rule, I would offer - use plastic if you want to maximize
 tire size for your frame; use metal if you want the most durable
 fender for commuting and bad road riding; use Al. if you want a
 beautiful, light weight option for a good rondonee style bike, like
 the Rambouillet.  I use steel on my commuter; Al on my Rambouillet,
 and plastic on the tandem.


I'm a bit curious about the berthoud composite fenders. They look
sharp and seem to be considerably longer than the sks ones.

thanks for the explanation.
-sv

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Re: [RBW] Re: fenders

2010-06-14 Thread Seth Vidal

On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 1:48 PM, stevep33 steve...@gmail.com wrote:
 My commuter has Berthoud 35mm composite fenders.  The coverage is
 better than SKS fenders because the front fender reaches significantly
 further forward.  The compromise is that the front fender section
 forward of the fork crown vibrates more because it is very long.  The
 Berthoud mounting hardware is very nice - single stays, very solid.  I
 also like the round profile better than the square profile on the SKS
 P35.  Similar durability to SKS fenders.
 Overall, very nice.


You have the 35mm fenders ones over 28mm tires?

-sv

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Re: [RBW] Re: fenders

2010-06-14 Thread Seth Vidal

On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 2:27 PM, Esteban proto...@gmail.com wrote:
 I have fit 35mm Honjos over 28mm Paselas - VERRRY tight.  Not
 recommended.  I would imagine that 43mm Honjos would work under the
 brakes with 28mm Paselas no problem.

 The Rom is designed around 27/28mm tires, and in my experience, that's
 where it shines.  I like the feeling of 28s better than Jack Browns on
 that bike.  That being said, it can bomb down a trail on 33.3s or 35s
 no problemo just without fenders.


Interesting - the romulus flyer on cyclofiend's site says 38mm w/o
fenders and 35mm with.

 Of course, this is all conjecture, given that we're just supposing
 about a Romulus :)

hey - I planned on a kogswell model-p once before and fedex did their
level best to mess it all up.

I shall count no chickens!

-sv

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Re: [RBW] Re: fenders

2010-06-14 Thread Seth Vidal

On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 8:05 PM, benzzoy benz...@yahoo.com wrote:
 On Jun 14, 7:33 am, Seth Vidal skvi...@gmail.com wrote:
 Suppose someone was looking for a good size fender for a romulus.
 According to the info on cyclofiend's website it seems like something
 like a 45mm fender would cover a jackbrown on a romulus or is that a
 pipe-dream w/the shimano sidepulls?

 I don't know about using with Shimano sidepulls, but I know that 43mm
 Honjos *barely* fit with Jack Browns.  I had to do a bit of adjusting,
 and the clearance is quite tight, but they do fit without rubbing,
 even after thousands of miles.

 http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/2008/cc539-benzouyang1008.html



If someone had a romulus and added a cable hanger do you think the
paul centerpulls would work nicely on such a theoretical frame?

-sv

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Re: [RBW] Re: fenders

2010-06-14 Thread Seth Vidal

On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 8:18 PM, Seth Vidal skvi...@gmail.com wrote:
 If someone had a romulus and added a cable hanger do you think the
 paul centerpulls would work nicely on such a theoretical frame?


s/hanger/stop/

-sv

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Re: [RBW] Re: fenders

2010-06-14 Thread Steve Palincsar

On Mon, 2010-06-14 at 20:18 -0400, Seth Vidal wrote:

 If someone had a romulus and added a cable hanger do you think the
 paul centerpulls would work nicely on such a theoretical frame?

I can't see any reason why not.  There are two versions, so you're bound
to find one with the appropriate reach.  I suspect with the Rom it will
be the new Racer M.



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Re: [RBW] Re: fenders

2010-06-14 Thread Seth Vidal

On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 10:33 PM, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote:
On Mon, 2010-06-14 at 20:18 -0400, Seth Vidal wrote:

If someone had a romulus and added a cable hanger do you think the
paul centerpulls would work nicely on such a theoretical frame?

I can't see any reason why not. There are two versions, so you're bound
to find one with the appropriate reach. I suspect with the Rom it will
be the new Racer M.

Researching using the internet wayback machine I found this:

http://web.archive.org/web/20040410105413/www.rivendellbicycles.com/html/bikes_romulus_4.html

More clearance, more versatility

It has considerably more clearance under the fork and brakes than do
most other road bikes. More clearance lets you ride a chubbier tire,
so you can ride lower tire pressures on rougher roads. The stock
Ruffy-Tuffy tires are ideal for all-around riding on paved roads, but
if you ride bad roads or on fire trails, or load it up with lunch and
spare gear, your Romulus will easily accept more appropriate, fatter
tires—up to 700x38!

If you ride where it rains, you’ll be happy to know your Romulus
easily accepts fenders, even with tires as large as 700x35. Most
modern road bikes can’t accept tires larger than 700x28, and don’t
accept fenders at all. They’re suitable only for smooth roads and fair
weather. The Romulus is an all-surface, all-weather road bike.

I've emailed keven to see if he has any additional words of wisdom
here. But if I can finagle a JB and a 42/43mm fender underneath all of
this I think that would make me happy.

this is, of course, entirely theoretical.
-sv

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RE: [RBW] Re: Fenders for Big Apples?

2010-06-02 Thread Allingham II, Thomas J

Well, mine didn't work, but not because of the tire size.  Not enough clearance 
under the Nitto Big Front and Big Rear racks for the 700C fatties with fenders. 
 W/o the racks, would have been fine, I think. 

-Original Message-
From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of EricP
Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 8:14 PM
To: RBW Owners Bunch
Subject: [RBW] Re: Fenders for Big Apples?

They have also worked for me.  Both with Marathon Supreme and Big Apple tires 
(26x50).  Albeit not on a Rivendell bike.  Hence my reluctance to answer.

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

On Jun 1, 8:07 am, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote:
  I'm just getting ready to install 60mm Giles Berthoud stainless 
  fenders over 50mm Marathon Supremes (same dimension as the Big 
  Apples).  Sure look like they'll fit.

 Worked for me.

 On Jun 1, 7:08 am, Allingham II, Thomas J

 thomas.alling...@skadden.com wrote:
  I'm just getting ready to install 60mm Giles Berthoud stainless   
  fenders over 50mm Marathon Supremes (same dimension as the Big   
  Apples).  Sure look like they'll fit.

  Sent from my iPhone

  On May 29, 2010, at 10:13 PM, Earl Grey earlg...@gmail.com wrote:

   I have a 700C bike with good clearance (45mm Panaracer Smoke 
  knobbies  fit fine) and am thinking of trying some 700x50 Big 
  Apples, which  according to rivbike, run about 44.5mm (presumably 
  on Velocity  Synergies, which is what I run). Has anyone fitted 
  fenders over these  tires? Have you tried the VO 52mm Zeppelin fenders:
  http://www.velo-orange.com/vopo52zefe70.html?Dothey provide enough  
  clearance?

   Thanks,

   Gernot

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders on Bombadil for off-road and mountain biking...

2009-12-18 Thread cyclotourist

Yep, that's the one. That's why they call 'em an All-Rounder :-)

I probably don't need them mounted as it only rains for a day or so now and
then, but hey, it keeps the dust down, too.

I change bars out every four to six months on whim. In fact, if all goes
according to plan I'll pick up some Salsa Woodchippers this morning!

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 5:15 AM, EricP ericpl...@aol.com wrote:

Nice. Is that the bike you brought on the ride in August? Don't
remember those bars.

Oh, and rain? In San Diego? Tell me it ain't so!

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

On Dec 18, 12:06 am, cyclotourist cyclotour...@gmail.com wrote:
I just put my mudguards/wheelbrows back on last weekend when it was
actually raining! I ride trails a lot with fenders on. These are dirt
roads/fire roads/forest roads mainly, not singletrack and not with a lot
of
undergrowth to worry about. Gonna' ride some of them this Sunday with the
SoCal crowd!!!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/3145241593/in/set-721576025...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/438261899/in/set-7215760259...

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 4:45 PM, Patrick in VT psh...@drm.com wrote:

On Dec 17, 4:21 pm, PATRICK MOORE bertin...@gmail.com wrote:
I put them on during the wet and during the snow months here in ABQ
and
they do make a huge difference especially on dirt. I don't ride in
mud,
but
I do ride through puddles and slush and I can attest that fenders on
mtbs
do
a great deal to keep bike and rider dry and clean.

yeah, I use fenders on dirt roads too. and they're great for riding
through puddles and slush on gentle single track and unpaved roads -
do that all the time. my idea of mountain biking is probably a little
different, that's all.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders on Bombadil for off-road and mountain biking...

2009-12-18 Thread John Speare

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:20 PM, Rene Sterental orthie...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi John,
 What you say makes a lot of sense. Have you ridden off-road (mountain biked)
 with steel fenders? Or is this just your logical analysis of the question I
 posed? While logical analysis make sense (usually), nothing beats actual
 experience. Not that I'm challenging you or anything, I'm just curious since
 your logic pretty much goes against what a lot of people have advised in
 response to my question.
 It does make a lot of sense, but all responses seem to be logical as well...
 :-D
 René

 --


I don't really mountain bike. I do a lot of trail and off-roadish
riding on a bike with a steel fender up front. And I've caught (and
broke) a  few sticks in it. Most of my bikes have plastic fenders and
the front release clips drive me bonkers when I'm riding and catch
them and fenders yank out.

Seeing the response in this tread about the woman whose Honjo crumpled
surprises me.

Like others the one reservation I'd have about doing real mountain
biking with metal fenders would be in how long the front fender hangs
down, which could make hopping/riding over stuff hard.


-- 
John Speare
Spokane, WA USA
http://cyclingspokane.blogspot.com/

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders on Bombadil for off-road and mountain biking...

2009-12-18 Thread Rene Sterental

Well... I received the Planet Bike Cascadia 29er fenders and upon opening
the package and inspecting them, there are no safety quick release tabs on
either front or rear fender. In fact, nothing in the instructions refers to
safety releases at all. I positioned the rear one on my Bombadil to see how
it would fit, and while it fits perfectly on the frame, there it seems to be
a narrow (er) space between the 2.0 knobby and the fender, and with the
large width (60mm) of the fender, it would seem that it would be quite easy
for something to get lodged or stuck between the large knobby tire and the
fender, so I guess I'll probably follow along the recommendation of not
doing any serious mountain biking with fenders. I have not installed them
yet, may do so tomorrow as on Sunday I'm planning to try the bike on the
singletrack in China Camp, north of San Francisco. The trails are not too
aggressive but it will be a good test. There is not much debris on those
trails, so I would not be too concerned about any fenders there anyway.

Seems like the point of concern would not necessarily be how aggressive a
trail is, but rather how much loose stuff is there.

So, from the perspective of attachment, it seems there is no difference
between the plastic Cascadia 29er fenders and steel Berthroud 60mm wide
fenders. The point to consider would actually be the extended coverage of
the front steel fender, and the risks that would pose to going over drops
(or down sidewalks for that matter...).

Will think more about the ultimate use I give the Bombadil, and will
probably go with the system that makes it easier to install and remove the
fenders...

René

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders on Bombadil for off-road and mountain biking...

2009-12-18 Thread PATRICK MOORE

I've mounted my Cascadias, also without safety releases, in a way that I
believe (and hope) will prevent endos from obstructing sticks. On the front
I have mounted the struts to clamps halfway up the fork legs (I hope soon to
get a custom fork that will incorporate eyelets in similar positions) so
that, presumably, the arc of the obstructed fender will increase, rather
than decrease, the gap between tire and fender underside. This means that
the fenders shake a bit more, but that don't bother me none. Or, it bother
me jest a little; not as much as a planted face. Also, the Cascadia is
rather, by road standards, absurdly short but, with the very high bb
(Monocog 29er with extremely fat tires) it still protects the bb area.

On the rear I dispensed with struts altogether by ampumatating a goodly part
of the leading edge, so that the fender runs from cs bridge to about a foot
aft of the Nelson, where it is attached by zip tie to the Bagman support.
Eventually, if the fork works out, I shall have the frame itself modified
with (inter alia) mid-stay eyelets, but keep the amputated fender and run
struts from where it ends to the stay, not to the dropout.

I'm tempted to have the rejuvenated Monocog painted a nice dark blue with
cream panels, and install full fluted alum fenders or somesuch, crosshatched
bar tape in white and lavender, a steel grey tweed bag on a chromed front
rack and purple streamers, but I fear that such fenders would indeed be a
more of a liability than an asset. So it will remain primer grey or
something with black Cascadias, to match the brutal utilitarian looks of the
ugly head tube gusset, violently sloped top tube, upjutter Profile stem,
black Salsa Bell Lap cyclocross bars (an inch above saddle! My road bars are
2 below) Truvativ single ring crank, 450 mm black seatpost and 2.6 inch
actual Big Apples on the 45 mm drilled Snocat rims, with two parallel,
complementary-color rims strips peaking out of the holes.

Patrick the bike is Rivendellian in setup and purpose, even if not in
looks Moore, who does have two remaining of three custom Rivs and loves
them.

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 10:45 PM, Rene Sterental orthie...@gmail.comwrote:

Well... I received the Planet Bike Cascadia 29er fenders and upon opening
the package and inspecting them, there are no safety quick release tabs on
either front or rear fender. In fact, nothing in the instructions refers to
safety releases at all. I positioned the rear one on my Bombadil to see how
it would fit, and while it fits perfectly on the frame, there it seems to be
a narrow (er) space between the 2.0 knobby and the fender, and with the
large width (60mm) of the fender, it would seem that it would be quite easy
for something to get lodged or stuck between the large knobby tire and the
fender, so I guess I'll probably follow along the recommendation of not
doing any serious mountain biking with fenders. I have not installed them
yet, may do so tomorrow as on Sunday I'm planning to try the bike on the
singletrack in China Camp, north of San Francisco. The trails are not too
aggressive but it will be a good test. There is not much debris on those
trails, so I would not be too concerned about any fenders there anyway.

Seems like the point of concern would not necessarily be how aggressive a
trail is, but rather how much loose stuff is there.

So, from the perspective of attachment, it seems there is no difference
between the plastic Cascadia 29er fenders and steel Berthroud 60mm wide
fenders. The point to consider would actually be the extended coverage of
the front steel fender, and the risks that would pose to going over drops
(or down sidewalks for that matter...).

Will think more about the ultimate use I give the Bombadil, and will
probably go with the system that makes it easier to install and remove the
fenders...

René

--
Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, NM
For professional resumes, contact
Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumespecialt...@gmail.com
(505) 227-0523

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders on Bombadil for off-road and mountain biking...

2009-12-17 Thread Rene Sterental

Thanks Rob,

Very nice setups. Pretty convincing argument as well. What is that saddlebag
you have on the Bleriot?

René

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders on Bombadil for off-road and mountain biking...

2009-12-17 Thread PATRICK MOORE

Eric said:

Plus wanted to add the Planet Bike Cascadia fenders have built in
mudflaps.

They do, but unless they have re-designed them -- and quite possibly they
have -- they are, as mine are, absurdly short. That actually works out well
on the Monocog with its very high bb, but they would leave a lower bb
exposed.

they can and do wiggle from side to side off-road.

They do do this, and they do grind or buzz on knobs. But so far mine haven't
broken.

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

Patrick from VT said:



 I just don't see the benefit of having fenders on a dedicated mtb.

 I put them on during the wet and during the snow months here in ABQ and
they do make a huge difference especially on dirt. I don't ride in mud, but
I do ride through puddles and slush and I can attest that fenders on mtbs do
a great deal to keep bike and rider dry and clean.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders on Bombadil for off-road and mountain biking...

2009-12-17 Thread cyclotourist

I just put my mudguards/wheelbrows back on last weekend when it was
actually raining! I ride trails a lot with fenders on. These are dirt
roads/fire roads/forest roads mainly, not singletrack and not with a lot of
undergrowth to worry about. Gonna' ride some of them this Sunday with the
SoCal crowd!!!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/3145241593/in/set-72157602592825848/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/438261899/in/set-72157602592825848/

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 4:45 PM, Patrick in VT psh...@drm.com wrote:

On Dec 17, 4:21 pm, PATRICK MOORE bertin...@gmail.com wrote:
I put them on during the wet and during the snow months here in ABQ and
they do make a huge difference especially on dirt. I don't ride in mud,
but
I do ride through puddles and slush and I can attest that fenders on mtbs
do
a great deal to keep bike and rider dry and clean.

--
Cheers,
David
Redlands, CA

Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something
wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym. ~Bill Nye,
scientist guy

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders on Bombadil for off-road and mountain biking...

2009-12-16 Thread John Speare

On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 3:12 PM, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote:

 On Dec 10, 5:01 pm, Rene Sterental orthie...@gmail.com wrote:
 I am debating whether to install fenders on my new Bombadil, which I still
 haven't had time to finish assembling, but should be done by Saturday at the
 latest, as all I have left is to install the shifters and fine tune the
 brakes. I have switched the knobby tires to Specialized El Capitan Control
 2Bliss, 2.2 front and 2.0 rear, which now give good clearance. This is
 essentially a 56mm wide front knobby tire and a 51mm wide rear tire.

 I'd like to install fenders, which at this point would have to be Giles
 Berthoud stainless steel fenders in 700x60, but am wondering if there would
 be negative risks if I went mountain biking with the fenders. Someone told
 me that a rock or something else could get stuck between tire and fender
 with catastrophic consequences.

 I'm also planning to use Marathon Extreme tires when I'm riding it in the
 road primarily and only need easy dirt trail capability, and just discovered
 there is a Marathon Supreme version in 2.0 as well. Will the 1.6 Marathon
 Extremes (42mm wide) look odd or behave oddly with 60mm fenders?

 Let me know what you think about mountain biking and going off-road with
 fenders.

 René

 A lot of things would have to happen for a rock or other debris to
 cause the scenario you described.  If those things did come together
 and you have a bike with steel fenders, you could wind up crashing -
 maybe even going over the handlebars.  SKS breakaway fenders do not
 look nearly as good as Berthoud but would be more safe.

 Tires are personal choice.  I would not want to use Extremes on a bike
 that is mostly on paved roads.  I think the big Supremes or the more
 supple Big Apples would better suit you.

Installing plastic fenders with break-away tabs seems in theory the
right choice for offroading + fenders, but really it's worse when you
think it through and compare a stick getting caught in a stay.

On a plastic/break-away fender a stick can easily dislodge the
break-away stay, which is annoying at best, and dangerous at worse if
the stay in turn catches on something else. In addtion, the rear stays
don't have a break-away feature, so a stick lodging in the fender can
easily crumple/tear/mangle a plastic fender and take you down.

Compare this to a alloy or steel fender that has stronger and more
rigid stays. Any stick that is small enough to lodge/get caught in
between the stays is much more likely break before the stay or fender
deforms or fails.

As for rocks getting caught/lodged in the fender, you just need to set
it up correctly (regardless of fender type): make sure the gap at the
entrance (bottom) of the fender is slightly smaller than the gap at
the exit (top) of the fender.

-- 
John Speare
Spokane, WA USA
http://cyclingspokane.blogspot.com/

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders on Bombadil for off-road and mountain biking...

2009-12-16 Thread Rene Sterental

Hi John,

What you say makes a lot of sense. Have you ridden off-road (mountain biked)
with steel fenders? Or is this just your logical analysis of the question I
posed? While logical analysis make sense (usually), nothing beats actual
experience. Not that I'm challenging you or anything, I'm just curious since
your logic pretty much goes against what a lot of people have advised in
response to my question.

It does make a lot of sense, but all responses seem to be logical as well...
:-D

René

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RE: [RBW] Re: Fenders on Bombadil for off-road and mountain biking...

2009-12-11 Thread Frederick, Steve

There's also the length issue.  Most metal fenders wrap lower behind the front 
wheel which is good for coverage but bad for clearance over trail obstacles.  
With shorter plastic fenders, you can extend them with a flexible mud flap that 
won't get caught on roots, rocks or logs.  (the holy trinity of fun stuff to 
launch over)  

Also, Planet Bike makes a 29'er version of their Cascadia fenders that would no 
doubt offer plenty of coverage.  I think that quick release hardware such as 
that provided with SKS fenders is a pretty good idea, though.  

Steve Frederick, East Lansing, MI

-Original Message-
From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
[mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com]on Behalf Of JoelMatthews
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 6:25 PM
To: RBW Owners Bunch
Subject: [RBW] Re: Fenders on Bombadil for off-road and mountain
biking...


 They sell a size (P55 I think) that will accommodate up to 2.0 tires.

And then some.  They are pretty big fenders.

 You will pick up many pebbles riding dirt, and metal fenders are just going 
 to be too loud
 IMHO.

That can get annoying real fast.


On Dec 10, 5:18 pm, newenglandbike matthiasbe...@gmail.com wrote:
 I think for offroad you'd want plastic fenders like SKS.    They sell
 a size (P55 I think) that will accommodate up to 2.0 tires.  I'm
 planning on getting a pair for my bike.     You will pick up many
 pebbles riding dirt, and metal fenders are just going to be too loud
 IMHO.

 On Dec 10, 6:01 pm, Rene Sterental orthie...@gmail.com wrote:



  I am debating whether to install fenders on my new Bombadil, which I still
  haven't had time to finish assembling, but should be done by Saturday at the
  latest, as all I have left is to install the shifters and fine tune the
  brakes. I have switched the knobby tires to Specialized El Capitan Control
  2Bliss, 2.2 front and 2.0 rear, which now give good clearance. This is
  essentially a 56mm wide front knobby tire and a 51mm wide rear tire.

  I'd like to install fenders, which at this point would have to be Giles
  Berthoud stainless steel fenders in 700x60, but am wondering if there would
  be negative risks if I went mountain biking with the fenders. Someone told
  me that a rock or something else could get stuck between tire and fender
  with catastrophic consequences.

  I'm also planning to use Marathon Extreme tires when I'm riding it in the
  road primarily and only need easy dirt trail capability, and just discovered
  there is a Marathon Supreme version in 2.0 as well. Will the 1.6 Marathon
  Extremes (42mm wide) look odd or behave oddly with 60mm fenders?

  Let me know what you think about mountain biking and going off-road with
  fenders.

  René- Hide quoted text -

 - Show quoted text -

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders on Bombadil for off-road and mountain biking...

2009-12-10 Thread Rene Sterental

The potential noise doesn't bother me, but the potential accident does.
However, led by your suggestions, I just found out that Planet Bike makes a
set of fenders for 29er moutnain bikes that will cover up to a 2.3 tire, and
these fit the prescription perfectly. I'll be ordering a set of those.

Here's a review:
http://twentynineinches.com/2007/02/13/planet-bike-freddy-fenders-cascadia-for-29ers/

René

On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 3:24 PM, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote:

They sell a size (P55 I think) that will accommodate up to 2.0 tires.

And then some. They are pretty big fenders.

You will pick up many pebbles riding dirt, and metal fenders are just
going to be too loud
IMHO.

That can get annoying real fast.

On Dec 10, 5:18 pm, newenglandbike matthiasbe...@gmail.com wrote:
I think for offroad you'd want plastic fenders like SKS.They sell
a size (P55 I think) that will accommodate up to 2.0 tires. I'm
planning on getting a pair for my bike. You will pick up many
pebbles riding dirt, and metal fenders are just going to be too loud
IMHO.

On Dec 10, 6:01 pm, Rene Sterental orthie...@gmail.com wrote:

I am debating whether to install fenders on my new Bombadil, which I
still
haven't had time to finish assembling, but should be done by Saturday
at the
latest, as all I have left is to install the shifters and fine tune the
brakes. I have switched the knobby tires to Specialized El Capitan
Control
2Bliss, 2.2 front and 2.0 rear, which now give good clearance. This is
essentially a 56mm wide front knobby tire and a 51mm wide rear tire.

I'd like to install fenders, which at this point would have to be Giles
Berthoud stainless steel fenders in 700x60, but am wondering if there
would
be negative risks if I went mountain biking with the fenders. Someone
told
me that a rock or something else could get stuck between tire and
fender
with catastrophic consequences.

I'm also planning to use Marathon Extreme tires when I'm riding it in
the
road primarily and only need easy dirt trail capability, and just
discovered
there is a Marathon Supreme version in 2.0 as well. Will the 1.6
Marathon
Extremes (42mm wide) look odd or behave oddly with 60mm fenders?

Let me know what you think about mountain biking and going off-road
with
fenders.

René- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders on Bombadil for off-road and mountain biking...

2009-12-10 Thread Rene Sterental

I'll paint it black, like the song says... the PB logo, I mean... :-D

I don't know if having the logos visible will bother me, but if it does I'll
do something about them.

On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 5:51 PM, EricP ericpl...@aol.com wrote:

Have PB fenders on one bike. And wife uses them on her steel steed.
Really good protection from mud and rocks. And the long mud flap
seems to work better than most.

Beware, though, the fenders do have the Planet BIke name etched into
the plastic. Not overly visible, but there. Covered mine with
reflective tape. Which itself will soon be covered by black 3M
reflective tape.

Many years ago Moots did a set of fenders for mountain bikes. Too
short. They were the first I used that really worked. The front was
held on with zip ties to the fork if I remember correctly.

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

On Dec 10, 6:50�pm, Rene Sterental orthie...@gmail.com wrote:
The potential noise doesn't bother me, but the potential accident does.
However, led by your suggestions, I just found out that Planet Bike makes
a
set of fenders for 29er moutnain bikes that will cover up to a 2.3 tire,
and
these fit the prescription perfectly. I'll be ordering a set of those.

Here's a review:
http://twentynineinches.com/2007/02/13/planet-bike-freddy-fenders-cas...

Ren�

On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 3:24 PM, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com
wrote:
They sell a size (P55 I think) that will accommodate up to 2.0
tires.

And then some. �They are pretty big fenders.

You will pick up many pebbles riding dirt, and metal fenders are just
going to be too loud
IMHO.

That can get annoying real fast.

On Dec 10, 5:18 pm, newenglandbike matthiasbe...@gmail.com wrote:
I think for offroad you'd want plastic fenders like SKS. � �They sell
a size (P55 I think) that will accommodate up to 2.0 tires. �I'm
planning on getting a pair for my bike. � � You will pick up many
pebbles riding dirt, and metal fenders are just going to be too loud
IMHO.

On Dec 10, 6:01 pm, Rene Sterental orthie...@gmail.com wrote:

I am debating whether to install fenders on my new Bombadil, which
I
still
haven't had time to finish assembling, but should be done by
Saturday
at the
latest, as all I have left is to install the shifters and fine tune
the
brakes. I have switched the knobby tires to Specialized El Capitan
Control
2Bliss, 2.2 front and 2.0 rear, which now give good clearance. This
is
essentially a 56mm wide front knobby tire and a 51mm wide rear
tire.

I'd like to install fenders, which at this point would have to be
Giles
Berthoud stainless steel fenders in 700x60, but am wondering if
there
would
be negative risks if I went mountain biking with the fenders.
Someone
told
me that a rock or something else could get stuck between tire and
fender
with catastrophic consequences.

I'm also planning to use Marathon Extreme tires when I'm riding it
in
the
road primarily and only need easy dirt trail capability, and just
discovered
there is a Marathon Supreme version in 2.0 as well. Will the 1.6
Marathon
Extremes (42mm wide) look odd or behave oddly with 60mm fenders?

Let me know what you think about mountain biking and going off-road
with
fenders.

Ren�- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

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Groups
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.
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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders on Bombadil for off-road and mountain biking...

2009-12-10 Thread Brian Hanson

Mountain bikes with tires?? Heresy! How are you going to get muddy/dirty?
That's half the fun :)

Brian

On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 8:35 PM, Dave Craig dcr...@prescott.edu wrote:

While I haven't tried Extremes, there's absolutely no reason not to
run 2.0 Marathon XR's on or off road on a Bombadil. I've used them
touring and on rugged, fast single track. I'm a pretty aggressive
rider and I don't feel limited by the XR's. They roll pretty well on
roads, though they are a heavy tire and slow to accelerate. They also
aren't the best for fast sweeping turns on blacktop, but that's not
what a Bombadil is best for either . . .

I run the Planet Bike fenders when my Bombadil is set up as a tourer
with Schwalbe 50mm Supremes and they fit fine. See my bike on the
Bombadil pool on Flickr. The XR's also fit, but I tend not to use
fenders on the bike as an MTB.

Dave

On Dec 10, 7:18 pm, Rene Sterental orthie...@gmail.com wrote:
I'll paint it black, like the song says... the PB logo, I mean... :-D

I don't know if having the logos visible will bother me, but if it does
I'll
do something about them.

On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 5:51 PM, EricP ericpl...@aol.com wrote:
Have PB fenders on one bike. And wife uses them on her steel steed.
Really good protection from mud and rocks. And the long mud flap
seems to work better than most.

Many years ago Moots did a set of fenders for mountain bikes. Too
short. They were the first I used that really worked. The front was
held on with zip ties to the fork if I remember correctly.

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

On Dec 10, 6:50 pm, Rene Sterental orthie...@gmail.com wrote:
The potential noise doesn't bother me, but the potential accident
does.
However, led by your suggestions, I just found out that Planet Bike
makes
a
set of fenders for 29er moutnain bikes that will cover up to a 2.3
tire,
and
these fit the prescription perfectly. I'll be ordering a set of
those.

Here's a review:
http://twentynineinches.com/2007/02/13/planet-bike-freddy-fenders-cas.
..

Ren

On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 3:24 PM, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com
wrote:
They sell a size (P55 I think) that will accommodate up to 2.0
tires.

And then some. They are pretty big fenders.

You will pick up many pebbles riding dirt, and metal fenders are
just
going to be too loud
IMHO.

That can get annoying real fast.

On Dec 10, 5:18 pm, newenglandbike matthiasbe...@gmail.com
wrote:
I think for offroad you'd want plastic fenders like SKS. They
sell
a size (P55 I think) that will accommodate up to 2.0 tires. I'm
planning on getting a pair for my bike. You will pick up many
pebbles riding dirt, and metal fenders are just going to be too
loud
IMHO.

On Dec 10, 6:01 pm, Rene Sterental orthie...@gmail.com wrote:

I am debating whether to install fenders on my new Bombadil,
which
I
still
haven't had time to finish assembling, but should be done by
Saturday
at the
latest, as all I have left is to install the shifters and fine
tune
the
brakes. I have switched the knobby tires to Specialized El
Capitan
Control
2Bliss, 2.2 front and 2.0 rear, which now give good clearance.
This
is
essentially a 56mm wide front knobby tire and a 51mm wide rear
tire.

I'd like to install fenders, which at this point would have to
be
Giles
Berthoud stainless steel fenders in 700x60, but am wondering if
there
would
be negative risks if I went mountain biking with the fenders.
Someone
told
me that a rock or something else could get stuck between tire
and
fender
with catastrophic consequences.

I'm also planning to use Marathon Extreme tires when I'm riding
it
in
the
road primarily and only need easy dirt trail capability, and
just
discovered
there is a Marathon Supreme version in 2.0 as well. Will the
1.6
Marathon
Extremes (42mm wide) look odd or behave oddly with 60mm
fenders?

Let me know what you think about mountain biking and going
off-road
with
fenders.

Ren - Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

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RE: [RBW] Re: fenders and short reach brakes

2009-11-21 Thread Joe Bartoe

Hey Jim,

How did you get the fender line to look that good on that bike? How did you
space it rearward near the bottom bracket? Also what do you do for wheel
removal? Do you have to deflate the tire?

Joe

Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 08:59:00 -0800
Subject: [RBW] Re: fenders and short reach brakes
From: cloud...@aol.com
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com

The extended headtube was a standard feature of the Rivendell Road
Standard as early as 1996. Here's a quote from the Summer 1996
Rivendell Bicycle Works catalog: The standard Rivendell frame has a
head tube 15mm taller than the top of the lug, and the steering tube
is 10mm extra longer (the difference is made up with a machined
spacer). If you know you won't want the high bar position, if you
understand its benefits but are set in your ways, we can build the
frame without the extension (it's easier to just leave it off, and
you'll save $10).

My Rivendell Road Standard, built in 1996, has the extended head
tube. It obviously makes it easier to achieve a higher position of
the handlebars without having an extremely long stem. Here's a link
that shows the extension quite well:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/37964...@n05/3634095108/in/set-72157619758078965/

Jim Cloud
Tucson, AZ

On Nov 21, 5:35 am, Angus angusle...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
Bruce,

My Road Standard did have an extended heat tube, I specifically
remember they brazed on a spacer above the top head lug (looked
seamless once painted). This may have been an option, I don't recall;
it certainly could have been since it the extension was a separate
piece. I also had some extra headset spacers on the steerer tube.

I believe the extended head tubes started from the begining, my frame
was from the first batch delivered.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/16951...@n08/1982654041/

Angus

On Nov 20, 7:01 am, Bruce fullylug...@yahoo.com wrote:

Angus:

Do you recall if the head tube on your '95 was extended or not? I'm
trying to fix in my mind the point at which Riv started to supply
extended head tubes. My early '95 has a short, Waterford style set up
(although with the Sachs lug set). I wonder how early mine is in the
production of road frames.

Since I converted mine to 650B, it takes fenders AND plump tires, using
Tektro brakes. :)

Bruce

From: Angus angusle...@sbcglobal.net
To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, November 20, 2009 5:11:45 AM
Subject: [RBW] Re: fenders and short reach brakes

JL,

I had a first run Road Standard (late 95) and could not fit fenders
with a real 28mm tire.

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Re: [RBW] Re: fenders and short reach brakes

2009-11-20 Thread Bruce

Angus:

Do you recall if the head tube on your '95 was extended or not? I'm trying to 
fix in my mind the point at which Riv started to supply extended head tubes. My 
early '95 has a short, Waterford style set up (although with the Sachs lug 
set). I wonder how early mine is in the production of road frames.

Since I converted mine to 650B, it takes fenders AND plump tires, using Tektro 
brakes. :)

Bruce





From: Angus angusle...@sbcglobal.net
To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, November 20, 2009 5:11:45 AM
Subject: [RBW] Re: fenders and short reach brakes

JL,

I had a first run Road Standard (late 95) and could not fit fenders
with a real 28mm tire.


  

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