Re: [RE-wrenches] RETURN AMP SETTING
Hi Dana, Sorry for the delay - been on the road. Not sure if this has already been presented / discussed. The old standby from industrial chargers, is 100% SOC is reached when charge current drops to 2% of capacity (normaly based on 6 or 8 hr rate). Please note, this comes from an era of constant voltage with 8 hrs to recharge then rest the batteries. However, it is an accurate indication of full charge. Time for acid mixing? Now that is a tough one! GC2 L16's would be close in 30 mins or ~ 10 - 15 mins per 100AH once full charge has been attained however, not sure we can apply to larger format cells. Regards, Jamie Dana d...@solarwork.com 7/21/2010 7:54 PM As the % of full charge is related to the of degree absorption gravity [the denser more charged acid descending, and lighter acid rising] @ what point in the absorption would be prudent to stop charging? I used to cut off the charge on the Trace SW series at 12 âreturn ampsâ, VS. the factory default I think was at 5 amps. This has continues to work well but I never had anyone really answer this function clearly. Is there a battery manufacturer or wrench that would care to comment on the: The minimum âReturnâ amps to disconnect for a âfullâ charge? OR The time required per 100 AHR after reaching the Absorption point setting for the mix to occur? I realize that battery construction, battery condition, age and temperature and the current power usage will also play into this factor and it may not be a simple answer. Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc E - d...@solarwork.com V - 970.626.5253 F - 970.626.4140 C - 970.209.4076 web - www.solarwork.com Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988 From:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Mark Frye Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 4:25 PM To: al...@positiveenergysolar.com; 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Propane Generator, Dual Outback Inverters Allen, Can I infer that if you are shutting off the gen before charge rates drop in absorption that you are running only briefly in the absorb phase? Or do your charge currents remain high through out an extended absortion phase? Perhaps you have plenty of PV which you rely upon to bring the batteries up through the absorption phase, once the gen is shut off. I would be interest to learn more about your approach to this. Thanks, Mark Frye Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 303 Redbud Way Nevada City, CA 95959 (530) 401-8024 www.berkeleysolar.com From:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Allan Sindelar Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 3:17 PM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Propane Generator, Dual Outback Inverters The Onan RS2 shown in the generators article in HP 131 page 98 has performed flawlessly as backup support to an Outback quad-stack of VFX3648s. Differences, however, are that this 20kW gennie charges four inverters, rather than two; the elevation is 6,600 feet for about a 20% output deration; there are no huge loads above charging draw; and the client is aware enough to shut it off before absorption reduces the charge rate - all different conditions than you have described, as the gennie is usually fully loaded and running in balance. Darryl is right about the amount of words necessary. AllanSindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com ( mailto:al...@positiveenergysolar.com ) NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3008 - Release Date: 07/21/10 00:36:00 brbrThis email and its attachments have been scanned by iConnection E-Mail Firewall for viruses, spam, and malicious content. brbrThe information transmitted in this email is intended only for the entity or person to which it is addressed and may contain confidential/privileged material. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any review, retransmission, dissemination, or other use of this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. %^^% ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] calculating DC voltage drop
All, For longer, underground, array to inverter/charge controller runs, are folks using aluminum or copper? Last time I compared prices, for the same ampacity, Al was 1/3 the cost of Cu. Dick Ratico Solarwind Electric --- You wrote: Hi Dana; I'd say that's a bit overkill for today's market. That money could be making more power, not just preventing losses. Definitely a law of diminishing returns on wire sizing. If you allocated 50% of the budget to wire, and 50% to PV, your losses would be very low, (immeasurable but unfortunately still there) but your total system production vs. the money spent would be terrible. I'm only using this ridiculous example to show, that at some point, we all spend money on more PV, not bigger wire. I pick that point based on sound economic analysis, not some over applied rule of thumb. As copper costs rise, and PV gets cheaper, that point moves up. If copper was still at 20th century prices, and PV were $10/ watt, your 1% might very well be the right answer. ( this is also the point where Bob-O starts hammering me, so I'd better run. $E2opi$E2o$BA) R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer --- end of quote --- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] #10 THWN-2
I found similar to Phil, but all the wire had thwn-2 on the spool label but not on the wire. Execpt for pink it did not have thwn-2 on the spool lable. Darryl --- On Fri, 7/23/10, Phil Undercuffler solarp...@gmail.com wrote: From: Phil Undercuffler solarp...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] #10 THWN-2 To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: Friday, July 23, 2010, 12:56 AM Marco, I found the same situation as what David mentions -- when we were doing a high profile job that was going to be inspected by a certain someone from Las Cruces, all the wire available from local suppliers was only physically marked as THHN / THWN, but when we dug a little deeper and found the actual spec sheets from the manufacturer we were able to determine that the wire actually was rated as THWN-2 (plus a whole alphabet soup worth of additional listings), although it wasn't marked as such. Have the vendor pull up the spec sheet on the wire brands they typically carry, and keep a couple copies in your for the inspector file. Phil Undercuffler On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 7:33 PM, David Brearley david.brear...@solarprofessional.com wrote: Marco, The #10 THWN wire that your local suppliers carry may be cross-listed as THWN-2. My understanding is that it is not uncommon for smaller gauge wire to carry more listings than are printed on its insulation. (If that’s not true, we’ll find out shortly from someone on the list.) If your local supplier can’t confirm this cross-listing for you, I’d try tracing back to ask their supplier or the manufacturer. David Brearley, Senior Technical Editor SolarPro magazine On 7/23/10 12:52 AM, Marco Mangelsdorf ma...@pvthawaii.com wrote: Finding that wire in these here parts is pretty much impossible. Can any of my CA. brethren/sistren provide me any leads on wholesalers in either northern or southern CA. that carry #10 THWN-2 wire? Thanks, marco ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -Inline Attachment Follows- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] calculating DC voltage drop
I try to keep it in copper for DC, as I had always heard of trouble with Aluminum on DC. (True or Old Wrenches Tale?) We definitely go to Al on long AC runs, as its whats available, and the cost difference becomes remarkable. I've seen small cuts in Al, later corrode completely through the conductor.(AC run) I'm not sure what would happen it were DC. Probably depend on whether it was positive or negative, and which was bonded to ground? (either accelerate the corrosion, or act as cathodic protection?) R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Jul 23, 2010, at 6:14 AM, Richard L Ratico wrote: All, For longer, underground, array to inverter/charge controller runs, are folks using aluminum or copper? Last time I compared prices, for the same ampacity, Al was 1/3 the cost of Cu. Dick Ratico Solarwind Electric --- You wrote: Hi Dana; I'd say that's a bit overkill for today's market. That money could be making more power, not just preventing losses. Definitely a law of diminishing returns on wire sizing. If you allocated 50% of the budget to wire, and 50% to PV, your losses would be very low, (immeasurable but unfortunately still there) but your total system production vs. the money spent would be terrible. I'm only using this ridiculous example to show, that at some point, we all spend money on more PV, not bigger wire. I pick that point based on sound economic analysis, not some over applied rule of thumb. As copper costs rise, and PV gets cheaper, that point moves up. If copper was still at 20th century prices, and PV were $10/ watt, your 1% might very well be the right answer. ( this is also the point where Bob-O starts hammering me, so I'd better run. $E2opi$E2o$BA) R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer --- end of quote --- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] #10 THWN-2
We went through a similar problem with some beach communities here in SoCal. Because of the high humidity (all winter and summer mornings) they wanted THWN-2 for all conduit runs (as well as PVC instead of EMT). At first we were charged a premium for THWN-2 compared to THHN. But then we found a source at All Phase Electrical Supply Burbank CA (a part of CED) for THWN-2 #10 stranded @ $162.40/k-ft. Brand is En(m?)core Wire. THWN-2 listing is printed on the insulation. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] #10 THWN-2
I have specified THWN-2 for years, but occasionally will not be able to source it! Sent from my iPhone On Jul 23, 2010, at 11:37 AM, Peter Parrish peter.parr...@calsolareng.com wrote: We went through a similar problem with some beach communities here in SoCal. Because of the high humidity (all winter and summer mornings) they wanted THWN-2 for all conduit runs (as well as PVC instead of EMT). At first we were charged a premium for THWN-2 compared to THHN. But then we found a source at All Phase Electrical Supply Burbank CA (a part of CED) for THWN-2 #10 stranded @ $162.40/k-ft. Brand is En(m?)core Wire. THWN-2 listing is printed on the insulation. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] #10 THWN-2
I'm sorry to broadcast my ignorance, but: Could someone explain to me the significance of the -2 marking? Reply off-list if you wish to save bandwidth...but other List members may also be wondering... Thanks, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 10:48 AM, Nick Soleil nicksoleilso...@yahoo.comwrote: I have specified THWN-2 for years, but occasionally will not be able to source it! Sent from my iPhone On Jul 23, 2010, at 11:37 AM, Peter Parrish peter.parr...@calsolareng.com wrote: We went through a similar problem with some beach communities here in SoCal. Because of the high humidity (all winter and summer mornings) they wanted THWN-2 for all conduit runs (as well as PVC instead of EMT). At first we were charged a premium for THWN-2 compared to THHN. But then we found a source at All Phase Electrical Supply Burbank CA (a part of CED) for THWN-2 #10 stranded @ $162.40/k-ft. Brand is En(m?)core Wire. THWN-2 listing is printed on the insulation. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.competer.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] #10 THWN-2
-2 indicates that the insulation is rated for hot wet; that is that it is rated for 90C and wet conditions. See NEC Table 310.13(A). We also use Encore Wire. The sticker on the spool has THHN in big print, but then in small print below it says Type MTW or THHN or THWN-2. The insulation also says Type MTW or THHN or THWN-2. Mark Mark Westbrock NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer NM ER-1J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. office: 575-524-2030 cell: 575-640-2432 westbr...@positiveenergysolar.com www.positiveenergysolar.com Mick Abraham wrote: I'm sorry to broadcast my ignorance, but: Could someone explain to me the significance of the -2 marking? Reply off-list if you wish to save bandwidth...but other List members may also be wondering... Thanks, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com http://www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 10:48 AM, Nick Soleil nicksoleilso...@yahoo.com mailto:nicksoleilso...@yahoo.com wrote: I have specified THWN-2 for years, but occasionally will not be able to source it! Sent from my iPhone On Jul 23, 2010, at 11:37 AM, Peter Parrish peter.parr...@calsolareng.com mailto:peter.parr...@calsolareng.com wrote: We went through a similar problem with some beach communities here in SoCal. Because of the high humidity (all winter and summer mornings) they wanted THWN-2 for all conduit runs (as well as PVC instead of EMT). At first we were charged a premium for THWN-2 compared to THHN. But then we found a source at All Phase Electrical Supply Burbank CA (a part of CED) for THWN-2 #10 stranded @ $162.40/k-ft. Brand is En(m?)core Wire. THWN-2 listing is printed on the insulation. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com mailto:peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org http://www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org http://www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] #10 THWN-2
Mick, THWN-2 is 90°C rated per Table 310.16. This is key for conductors in conduit on a roof. On a roof in full sun ambient temperatures are such that a 75°C rated conductor will have a severely diminished allowable ampacity, if any allowable ampacity. Jollily, David On 7/23/10 11:52 AM, Mick Abraham m...@abrahamsolar.com wrote: I'm sorry to broadcast my ignorance, but: Could someone explain to me the significance of the -2 marking? Reply off-list if you wish to save bandwidth...but other List members may also be wondering... Thanks, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com http://www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 10:48 AM, Nick Soleil nicksoleilso...@yahoo.com wrote: I have specified THWN-2 for years, but occasionally will not be able to source it! Sent from my iPhone On Jul 23, 2010, at 11:37 AM, Peter Parrish peter.parr...@calsolareng.com wrote: We went through a similar problem with some beach communities here in SoCal. Because of the high humidity (all winter and summer mornings) they wanted THWN-2 for all conduit runs (as well as PVC instead of EMT). At first we were charged a premium for THWN-2 compared to THHN. But then we found a source at All Phase Electrical Supply Burbank CA (a part of CED) for THWN-2 #10 stranded @ $162.40/k-ft. Brand is En(m?)core Wire. THWN-2 listing is printed on the insulation. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 mailto:peter.parr...@calsolareng.com peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org http://www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] #10 THWN-2
The dash-two, as an appendage to THWN indicates that the wire, normally rated for dry and wet locations and 75 deg C, is now rated dry/wet up to 90 deg C. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Mick Abraham Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 9:52 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] #10 THWN-2 I'm sorry to broadcast my ignorance, but: Could someone explain to me the significance of the -2 marking? Reply off-list if you wish to save bandwidth...but other List members may also be wondering... Thanks, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 10:48 AM, Nick Soleil nicksoleilso...@yahoo.com wrote: I have specified THWN-2 for years, but occasionally will not be able to source it! Sent from my iPhone On Jul 23, 2010, at 11:37 AM, Peter Parrish peter.parr...@calsolareng.com wrote: We went through a similar problem with some beach communities here in SoCal. Because of the high humidity (all winter and summer mornings) they wanted THWN-2 for all conduit runs (as well as PVC instead of EMT). At first we were charged a premium for THWN-2 compared to THHN. But then we found a source at All Phase Electrical Supply Burbank CA (a part of CED) for THWN-2 #10 stranded @ $162.40/k-ft. Brand is En(m?)core Wire. THWN-2 listing is printed on the insulation. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] #10 THWN-2
Mick, -2 means 90 degrees C rather than 75. THWN-2 thus means that it is wet-rated at 90C. That is generally considered Code for arrays, such as if it is run in NM flex conduit to a traditional module j-box. The j-box area may be considered to be able to get hot enough to require 90C rated wire. Nowadays with MC-type module leads, combiner boxes aren't subject to the same high temperatures on the THWN as when they terminate in module j-boxes, and the higher temperature rating isn't generally necessary. Much of what I'm saying here is older John Wiles stuff. Allan Allan Sindelar Allan@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com On 7/23/2010 10:52 AM, Mick Abraham wrote: I'm sorry to broadcast my ignorance, but: Could someone explain to me the significance of the -2 marking? Reply off-list if you wish to save bandwidth...but other List members may also be wondering... Thanks, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 10:48 AM, Nick Soleil nicksoleilso...@yahoo.com wrote: I have specified THWN-2 for years, but occasionally will not be able to source it! Sent from my iPhone On Jul 23, 2010, at 11:37 AM, "Peter Parrish" peter.parr...@calsolareng.com wrote: We went through a similar problem with some beach communities here in SoCal. Because of the high humidity (all winter and summer mornings) they wanted THWN-2 for all conduit runs (as well as PVC instead of EMT). At first we were charged a premium for THWN-2 compared to THHN. But then we found a source at All Phase Electrical Supply Burbank CA (a part of CED) for THWN-2 #10 stranded @ $162.40/k-ft. Brand is En(m?)core Wire. THWN-2 listing is printed on the insulation. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette:
[RE-wrenches] AL wire with DC
The problem with Al is that, IF there is ever a loose connection, associated arcing, that it melts not like copper in the same situation which may arc but not melt. I have come in on OG jobs where Al was employed and found J boxes that were [sometimes wet] and had loose connections and the splice was charred/melted and the AL wire was not conducting melted beyond use, directly at the splice. The rubber linemen's tape was charred and there was a direct short to the metal box which was at least grounded correctly. I tend not to use Al based on this experience. Thanks, Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc E - d...@solarwork.com V - 970.626.5253 F - 970.626.4140 C - 970.209.4076 web - www.solarwork.com Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988 -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of R Ray Walters Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 7:46 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] calculating DC voltage drop I try to keep it in copper for DC, as I had always heard of trouble with Aluminum on DC. (True or Old Wrenches Tale?) We definitely go to Al on long AC runs, as its whats available, and the cost difference becomes remarkable. I've seen small cuts in Al, later corrode completely through the conductor.(AC run) I'm not sure what would happen it were DC. Probably depend on whether it was positive or negative, and which was bonded to ground? (either accelerate the corrosion, or act as cathodic protection?) R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] #10 THWN-2
Just a minor point: the dash-two appendage brings a wet-rated wire from 75 deg C to 90 deg C. If you are not in a locale that argues for wet-rated wire and your specific application does not argue for wet-rated wire, IMHO it is perfectly acceptable to use THHN wire (90 deg C rated for damp environments) for outdoors, attics and other extreme temperature conditions. Of course you have to use good 3R boxes and rain-tight EMT connectors. For us, it is easier to purchase and inventory just one wire type for conduit runs, and we usually get the same price for THWN-2 as we do for THHN, or close enough. In fact we almost never use #12 either for the same reason. Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Allan Sindelar Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 10:04 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] #10 THWN-2 Mick, -2 means 90 degrees C rather than 75. THWN-2 thus means that it is wet-rated at 90C. That is generally considered Code for arrays, such as if it is run in NM flex conduit to a traditional module j-box. The j-box area may be considered to be able to get hot enough to require 90C rated wire. Nowadays with MC-type module leads, combiner boxes aren't subject to the same high temperatures on the THWN as when they terminate in module j-boxes, and the higher temperature rating isn't generally necessary. Much of what I'm saying here is older John Wiles stuff. Allan Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com On 7/23/2010 10:52 AM, Mick Abraham wrote: I'm sorry to broadcast my ignorance, but: Could someone explain to me the significance of the -2 marking? Reply off-list if you wish to save bandwidth...but other List members may also be wondering... Thanks, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 10:48 AM, Nick Soleil nicksoleilso...@yahoo.com wrote: I have specified THWN-2 for years, but occasionally will not be able to source it! Sent from my iPhone On Jul 23, 2010, at 11:37 AM, Peter Parrish peter.parr...@calsolareng.com wrote: We went through a similar problem with some beach communities here in SoCal. Because of the high humidity (all winter and summer mornings) they wanted THWN-2 for all conduit runs (as well as PVC instead of EMT). At first we were charged a premium for THWN-2 compared to THHN. But then we found a source at All Phase Electrical Supply Burbank CA (a part of CED) for THWN-2 #10 stranded @ $162.40/k-ft. Brand is En(m?)core Wire. THWN-2 listing is printed on the insulation. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette:
Re: [RE-wrenches] #10 THWN-2
Peter, There was a change in the 2008 NEC (I know - CA is just getting to this Code cycle) that won't allow THHN inside conduit when the conduit is installed in wet locations, 300.9 (300.5 for underground): 300.9 Raceways in Wet Locations Above Grade. Where raceways are installed in wet locations abovegrade, the interior of these raceways shall be considered to be a wet location. Insulated conductors and cables installed in raceways in wet locations abovegrade shall comply with 310.8(C). And 310.8(C): (C) Wet Locations. Insulated conductors and cables used in wet locations shall comply with one of the following: (1) Be moisture-impervious metal-sheathed (2) Be types MTW, RHW, RHW-2, TW, THW, THW-2, THHW, THWN, THWN-2, XHHW, XHHW-2, ZW (3) Be of a type listed for use in wet locations So for an attic run, it wouldn't be considered a wet location but for the outdoor runs it would be. And since so many runs will be exposed to both types of locations, it only makes sense to me to keep it all THWN-2. I like your position of only stocking one wire type to reduce the possibility of confusion in the field. Ryan -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Peter Parrish Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 11:28 AM To: al...@positiveenergysolar.com; 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] #10 THWN-2 Just a minor point: the dash-two appendage brings a wet-rated wire from 75 deg C to 90 deg C. If you are not in a locale that argues for wet-rated wire and your specific application does not argue for wet-rated wire, IMHO it is perfectly acceptable to use THHN wire (90 deg C rated for damp environments) for outdoors, attics and other extreme temperature conditions. Of course you have to use good 3R boxes and rain-tight EMT connectors. For us, it is easier to purchase and inventory just one wire type for conduit runs, and we usually get the same price for THWN-2 as we do for THHN, or close enough. In fact we almost never use #12 either for the same reason. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] RETURN AMP SETTING
James – Thank-you! this is a good start and then monitoring the SG after a rest period w/o loads should help determine the time and SOC. Off to the lab again Igor, we have tests to run. Thanks, Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc E - d...@solarwork.com V - 970.626.5253 F - 970.626.4140 C - 970.209.4076 web - www.solarwork.com Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of James Surrette Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 6:06 AM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] RETURN AMP SETTING Hi Dana, Sorry for the delay - been on the road. Not sure if this has already been presented / discussed. The old standby from industrial chargers, is 100% SOC is reached when charge current drops to 2% of capacity (normaly based on 6 or 8 hr rate). Please note, this comes from an era of constant voltage with 8 hrs to recharge then rest the batteries. However, it is an accurate indication of full charge. Time for acid mixing? Now that is a tough one! GC2 L16's would be close in 30 mins or ~ 10 - 15 mins per 100AH once full charge has been attained however, not sure we can apply to larger format cells. Regards, Jamie Dana d...@solarwork.com 7/21/2010 7:54 PM As the % of full charge is related to the of degree absorption gravity [the denser more charged acid descending, and lighter acid rising] @ what point in the absorption would be prudent to stop charging? I used to cut off the charge on the Trace SW series at 12 “return amps”, VS. the factory default I think was at 5 amps. This has continues to work well but I never had anyone really answer this function clearly. Is there a battery manufacturer or wrench that would care to comment on the: The minimum “Return” amps to disconnect for a “full” charge? OR The time required per 100 AHR after reaching the Absorption point setting for the mix to occur? I realize that battery construction, battery condition, age and temperature and the current power usage will also play into this factor and it may not be a simple answer. Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc E - d...@solarwork.com V - 970.626.5253 F - 970.626.4140 C - 970.209.4076 web - www.solarwork.com Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988 From:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Mark Frye Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 4:25 PM To: al...@positiveenergysolar.com; 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Propane Generator, Dual Outback Inverters Allen, Can I infer that if you are shutting off the gen before charge rates drop in absorption that you are running only briefly in the absorb phase? Or do your charge currents remain high through out an extended absortion phase? Perhaps you have plenty of PV which you rely upon to bring the batteries up through the absorption phase, once the gen is shut off. I would be interest to learn more about your approach to this. Thanks, Mark Frye Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 303 Redbud Way Nevada City, CA 95959 (530) 401-8024 http://www.berkeleysolar.com/ www.berkeleysolar.com _ From:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Allan Sindelar Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 3:17 PM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Propane Generator, Dual Outback Inverters The Onan RS2 shown in the generators article in HP 131 page 98 has performed flawlessly as backup support to an Outback quad-stack of VFX3648s. Differences, however, are that this 20kW gennie charges four inverters, rather than two; the elevation is 6,600 feet for about a 20% output deration; there are no huge loads above charging draw; and the client is aware enough to shut it off before absorption reduces the charge rate - all different conditions than you have described, as the gennie is usually fully loaded and running in balance. Darryl is right about the amount of words necessary. AllanSindelar Allan mailto:al...@positiveenergysolar.com @positiveenergysolar.com mailto:al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3008 - Release Date: 07/21/10 00:36:00 This email and its attachments have been scanned by iConnection E-Mail Firewall for viruses, spam, and malicious content. The information transmitted in this email is intended only for the entity or person to which it is addressed and may
Re: [RE-wrenches] RETURN AMP SETTING
Darryl, You are probably aware of this but the Endurance machines are 240 VAC induction machines. I had asked about their policy on AC coupling their turbines for off grid use and they were less than enthusiastic. You might want to touch base with Endurance Wind Power before proceeding. Roy Butler NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer® NYSERDA eligible PV wind installer PA Sunshine Program Approved PV Installer Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC 8902 Route 46 Arkport, NY 14807 607-324-9747 www.four-winds-energy.com Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. On 7/22/2010 9:09 PM, Darryl Thayer wrote: I am talking with a customer who wants to do a standalone system using an Endurance wind machine, solar, and genset. I have no experience with Endurance other than to know it is a good machine. Talking with Magnum today they informed me that the MS 4XXX PAE inverter, combined with the ARC remote control, and BMK battery monitoring kit can do enhanced SOC control. Has anyone compared this with the Outback as I have not used the PAE inverter yet, only the AE inverter? Darryl --- On Wed, 7/21/10, Darryl Thayer daryl_so...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Darryl Thayer daryl_so...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] RETURN AMP SETTING To: "RE-wrenches" re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: Wednesday, July 21, 2010, 9:35 PM That is a good question, I have not an answer, but of course it should be based on the amp hour of the battery bank, absorb charging voltage, and of course the charging source in the case of generators. Following Ron's advise start at C/5 for SOC less than 50% then C/10 till about 70% SOC and then C/15 till 80% then C/20 to 90 %. the problem we have no way to set these values, Perhaps Ron could give is a routine? The closet to SOC charging is the Outback and then the Magnum but both miss the goal. --- On Wed, 7/21/10, Dana d...@solarwork.com wrote: From: Dana d...@solarwork.com Subject: [RE-wrenches] RETURN AMP SETTING To: "'RE-wrenches'" re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: Wednesday, July 21, 2010, 5:54 PM As the % of full charge is related to the of degree absorption gravity [the denser more charged acid descending, and lighter acid rising] @ what point in the absorption would be prudent to stop charging? I used to cut off the charge on the Trace SW series at 12 “return amps”, VS. the factory default I think was at 5 amps. This has continues to work well but I never had anyone really answer this function clearly. Is there a battery manufacturer or wrench that would care to comment on the: The minimum “Return” amps to disconnect for a “full” charge? OR The time required per 100 AHR after reaching the Absorption point
Re: [RE-wrenches] #10 THWN-2
Dual rated thhn / thwn complies. And every reel I've ever bought is dual rated. I've never seen single-rated thhn. Kirk Herander Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 NABCEP(tm) Certified Solar Installer NYSERDA-eligible Installer VT Solar Incentive Program Partner -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Mayfield Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 3:31 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] #10 THWN-2 Peter, There was a change in the 2008 NEC (I know - CA is just getting to this Code cycle) that won't allow THHN inside conduit when the conduit is installed in wet locations, 300.9 (300.5 for underground): 300.9 Raceways in Wet Locations Above Grade. Where raceways are installed in wet locations abovegrade, the interior of these raceways shall be considered to be a wet location. Insulated conductors and cables installed in raceways in wet locations abovegrade shall comply with 310.8(C). And 310.8(C): (C) Wet Locations. Insulated conductors and cables used in wet locations shall comply with one of the following: (1) Be moisture-impervious metal-sheathed (2) Be types MTW, RHW, RHW-2, TW, THW, THW-2, THHW, THWN, THWN-2, XHHW, XHHW-2, ZW (3) Be of a type listed for use in wet locations So for an attic run, it wouldn't be considered a wet location but for the outdoor runs it would be. And since so many runs will be exposed to both types of locations, it only makes sense to me to keep it all THWN-2. I like your position of only stocking one wire type to reduce the possibility of confusion in the field. Ryan -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Peter Parrish Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 11:28 AM To: al...@positiveenergysolar.com; 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] #10 THWN-2 Just a minor point: the dash-two appendage brings a wet-rated wire from 75 deg C to 90 deg C. If you are not in a locale that argues for wet-rated wire and your specific application does not argue for wet-rated wire, IMHO it is perfectly acceptable to use THHN wire (90 deg C rated for damp environments) for outdoors, attics and other extreme temperature conditions. Of course you have to use good 3R boxes and rain-tight EMT connectors. For us, it is easier to purchase and inventory just one wire type for conduit runs, and we usually get the same price for THWN-2 as we do for THHN, or close enough. In fact we almost never use #12 either for the same reason. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] #10 THWN-2
I've been looking hard to see what manufacturers produce this kinda elusive #10 THHN/THWN-2 wire. United Copper Industries (Texas) does. I have a handy spec sheet from them that I can email anyone who's interested. marco ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] AC Coupling to an Endurance wind machine
Was Return Amps Thanks Roy I usually leap then look, The customer has it already, I ran it yesterday, on AC couple into the standalone system, I learned a lot. But it ran, and I am working out some of the surprises I had. I am building up two inverter boards with the systems to control the excess battery charging. I hope that Endurance does not get mad at me. It appears to be very will built machine. I am also trying to modify my Dyno to drive the machine, so I can do some controlled testing. BTW when the anemometer indicates wind is present, the motor runs to start the blades, I was measuring up to 6400 watts surge. After it starts, it is impressive the power output. I have another install but hope to return with new parts on Wed of next week. I will keep all informed. And all ideas are welcome and probably needed. Darryl --- On Fri, 7/23/10, Roy Butler r...@four-winds-energy.com wrote: From: Roy Butler r...@four-winds-energy.com Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] RETURN AMP SETTING To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: Friday, July 23, 2010, 4:04 PM Darryl, You are probably aware of this but the Endurance machines are 240 VAC induction machines. I had asked about their policy on AC coupling their turbines for off grid use and they were less than enthusiastic. You might want to touch base with Endurance Wind Power before proceeding. Roy Butler NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer® NYSERDA eligible PV wind installer PA Sunshine Program Approved PV Installer Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC 8902 Route 46 Arkport, NY 14807 607-324-9747 www.four-winds-energy.com Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. On 7/22/2010 9:09 PM, Darryl Thayer wrote: I am talking with a customer who wants to do a standalone system using an Endurance wind machine, solar, and genset. I have no experience with Endurance other than to know it is a good machine. Talking with Magnum today they informed me that the MS 4XXX PAE inverter, combined with the ARC remote control, and BMK battery monitoring kit can do enhanced SOC control. Has anyone compared this with the Outback as I have not used the PAE inverter yet, only the AE inverter? Darryl --- On Wed, 7/21/10, Darryl Thayer daryl_so...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Darryl Thayer daryl_so...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] RETURN AMP SETTING To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: Wednesday, July 21, 2010, 9:35 PM That is a good question, I have not an answer, but of course it should be based on the amp hour of the battery bank, absorb charging voltage, and of course the charging source in the case of generators. Following Ron's advise start at C/5 for SOC less than 50% then C/10 till about 70% SOC and then C/15 till 80% then C/20 to 90 %. the problem we have no way to set these values, Perhaps Ron could give is a routine? The closet to SOC charging is the Outback and then the Magnum but both miss the goal. --- On Wed, 7/21/10, Dana d...@solarwork.com wrote: From: Dana d...@solarwork.com Subject: [RE-wrenches] RETURN AMP SETTING To: 'RE-wrenches' re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: Wednesday, July 21, 2010, 5:54 PM As the % of full charge is related to the of degree absorption gravity [the denser more charged acid descending, and lighter acid rising] @ what point in the absorption would be prudent to stop charging?
Re: [RE-wrenches] AL wire with DC
Dana, Thanks for the input. Excuse me please, OG jobs are? If the wire had been copper and didn't melt, but instead continued to arc, would the resultant heat have eventually started a fire? What type of splice was it? Does no one else use Al for DC? Here in rocky Vermont/NH, we use the same type aluminum URD cable for both AC and DC runs, but, always installed in PVC conduit, never direct buried. Haven't seen seen a problem yet. Dick Ratico Solarwind Electric --- You wrote: The problem with Al is that, IF there is ever a loose connection, associated arcing, that it melts not like copper in the same situation which may arc but not melt. I have come in on OG jobs where Al was employed and found J boxes that were [sometimes wet] and had loose connections and the splice was charred/melted and the AL wire was not conducting melted beyond use, directly at the splice. The rubber linemen's tape was charred and there was a direct short to the metal box which was at least grounded correctly. I tend not to use Al based on this experience. Thanks, Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc E - d...@solarwork.com V - 970.626.5253 F - 970.626.4140 C - 970.209.4076 web - www.solarwork.com Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988 -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of R Ray Walters Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 7:46 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] calculating DC voltage drop I try to keep it in copper for DC, as I had always heard of trouble with Aluminum on DC. (True or Old Wrenches Tale?) We definitely go to Al on long AC runs, as its whats available, and the cost difference becomes remarkable. I've seen small cuts in Al, later corrode completely through the conductor.(AC run) I'm not sure what would happen it were DC. Probably depend on whether it was positive or negative, and which was bonded to ground? (either accelerate the corrosion, or act as cathodic protection?) R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer --- end of quote --- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] AL wire with DC
OG - Off Grid Thanks, Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc E - d...@solarwork.com V - 970.626.5253 F - 970.626.4140 C - 970.209.4076 web - www.solarwork.com Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988 -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Richard L Ratico Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 4:18 PM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] AL wire with DC Dana, Thanks for the input. Excuse me please, OG jobs are? If the wire had been copper and didn't melt, but instead continued to arc, would the resultant heat have eventually started a fire? What type of splice was it? Does no one else use Al for DC? Here in rocky Vermont/NH, we use the same type aluminum URD cable for both AC and DC runs, but, always installed in PVC conduit, never direct buried. Haven't seen seen a problem yet. Dick Ratico Solarwind Electric --- You wrote: The problem with Al is that, IF there is ever a loose connection, associated arcing, that it melts not like copper in the same situation which may arc but not melt. I have come in on OG jobs where Al was employed and found J boxes that were [sometimes wet] and had loose connections and the splice was charred/melted and the AL wire was not conducting melted beyond use, directly at the splice. The rubber linemen's tape was charred and there was a direct short to the metal box which was at least grounded correctly. I tend not to use Al based on this experience. Thanks, Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc E - d...@solarwork.com V - 970.626.5253 F - 970.626.4140 C - 970.209.4076 web - www.solarwork.com Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988 -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of R Ray Walters Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 7:46 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] calculating DC voltage drop I try to keep it in copper for DC, as I had always heard of trouble with Aluminum on DC. (True or Old Wrenches Tale?) We definitely go to Al on long AC runs, as its whats available, and the cost difference becomes remarkable. I've seen small cuts in Al, later corrode completely through the conductor.(AC run) I'm not sure what would happen it were DC. Probably depend on whether it was positive or negative, and which was bonded to ground? (either accelerate the corrosion, or act as cathodic protection?) R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer --- end of quote --- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wren ches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrench es.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3023 - Release Date: 07/23/10 00:36:00 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] AL wire with DC
I'm with Dick on this one... Sure, I've seen a few good oopsies involving aluminum, (where the J box does the Salvador Dali thing)... but they're usually installed by "Uncle Larry" types... as long as the install is code compliant (Listed and properly installed), I don't think it maters much. dbDan BrownFoxfire Energy Corp.Renewable Energy Systems(802)-483-2564www.Foxfire-Energy.comNABCEP #092907-44 Original Message Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] AL wire with DC From: richard.l.rat...@valley.net (Richard L Ratico) Date: Fri, July 23, 2010 6:18 pm To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Dana, Thanks for the input. Excuse me please, "OG jobs" are? If the wire had been copper and didn't melt, but instead continued to arc, would the resultant heat have eventually started a fire? What type of splice was it? Does no one else use Al for DC? Here in rocky Vermont/NH, we use the same type aluminum URD cable for both AC and DC runs, but, always installed in PVC conduit, never direct buried. Haven't seen seen a problem yet. Dick Ratico Solarwind Electric --- You wrote: The problem with Al is that, IF there is ever a loose connection, associated arcing, that it melts not like copper in the same situation which may arc but not melt. I have come in on OG jobs where Al was employed and found J boxes that were [sometimes wet] and had loose connections and the splice was charred/melted and the AL wire was not conducting melted beyond use, directly at the splice. The rubber linemen's tape was charred and there was a direct short to the metal box which was at least grounded correctly. I tend not to use Al based on this experience. Thanks, Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc E - d...@solarwork.com V - 970.626.5253 F - 970.626.4140 C - 970.209.4076 web - www.solarwork.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of R Ray Walters Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 7:46 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] calculating DC voltage drop I try to keep it in copper for DC, as I had always heard of trouble with Aluminum on DC. (True or Old Wrenches Tale?) We definitely go to Al on long AC runs, as its whats available, and the cost difference becomes remarkable. I've seen small cuts in Al, later corrode completely through the conductor.(AC run) I'm not sure what would happen it were DC. Probably depend on whether it was positive or negative, and which was bonded to ground? (either accelerate the corrosion, or act as cathodic protection?) R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer --- end of quote --- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] AL wire with DC
I cannot speak for what if. I have seen CU AL bolted in AL mechanical butt splices where someone did not torque it to spec. and it went to arcing. Both were a mess ; The butt splice was pitted / damaged and needed replacement, the AL cable melted and the copper cable did not. It the same amperage, but both were 1,600+watt arrays. But AL is softer and the strands are larger for the same size as CU wire. I think that there was a greater safety factor in the CU. More strands, finer wires, a harder metal, therefore greater contact area on the AL mechanical butt splice. I have seen split bolts that were loose and you could pull the wire out easily and no melting or arcing. Thanks, Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc E - d...@solarwork.com V - 970.626.5253 F - 970.626.4140 C - 970.209.4076 web - www.solarwork.com Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988 -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Dana Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 4:24 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] AL wire with DC OG - Off Grid Thanks, Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc E - d...@solarwork.com V - 970.626.5253 F - 970.626.4140 C - 970.209.4076 web - www.solarwork.com Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988 -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Richard L Ratico Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 4:18 PM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] AL wire with DC Dana, Thanks for the input. Excuse me please, OG jobs are? If the wire had been copper and didn't melt, but instead continued to arc, would the resultant heat have eventually started a fire? What type of splice was it? Does no one else use Al for DC? Here in rocky Vermont/NH, we use the same type aluminum URD cable for both AC and DC runs, but, always installed in PVC conduit, never direct buried. Haven't seen seen a problem yet. Dick Ratico Solarwind Electric --- You wrote: The problem with Al is that, IF there is ever a loose connection, associated arcing, that it melts not like copper in the same situation which may arc but not melt. I have come in on OG jobs where Al was employed and found J boxes that were [sometimes wet] and had loose connections and the splice was charred/melted and the AL wire was not conducting melted beyond use, directly at the splice. The rubber linemen's tape was charred and there was a direct short to the metal box which was at least grounded correctly. I tend not to use Al based on this experience. Thanks, Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc E - d...@solarwork.com V - 970.626.5253 F - 970.626.4140 C - 970.209.4076 web - www.solarwork.com Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988 -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of R Ray Walters Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 7:46 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] calculating DC voltage drop I try to keep it in copper for DC, as I had always heard of trouble with Aluminum on DC. (True or Old Wrenches Tale?) We definitely go to Al on long AC runs, as its whats available, and the cost difference becomes remarkable. I've seen small cuts in Al, later corrode completely through the conductor.(AC run) I'm not sure what would happen it were DC. Probably depend on whether it was positive or negative, and which was bonded to ground? (either accelerate the corrosion, or act as cathodic protection?) R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer --- end of quote --- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wren ches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrench es.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3023 - Release Date: 07/23/10 00:36:00 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wren ches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrench es.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3023 - Release Date: 07/23/10 00:36:00 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address:
Re: [RE-wrenches] AL wire with DC
check out NEC 110.14Dan BrownFoxfire Energy Corp.Renewable Energy Systems(802)-483-2564www.Foxfire-Energy.comNABCEP #092907-44 Original Message Subject: [RE-wrenches] AL wire with DC From: "Dana" d...@solarwork.com Date: Fri, July 23, 2010 6:54 pm To: "'RE-wrenches'" re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org I cannot speak for what if. I have seen CU AL bolted in AL mechanical butt splices where someone did not torque it to spec. and it went to arcing. Both were a mess ; The butt splice was pitted / damaged and needed replacement, the AL cable melted and the copper cable did not. It the same amperage, but both were 1,600+watt arrays. But AL is softer and the strands are larger for the same size as CU wire. I think that there was a greater safety factor in the CU. More strands, finer wires, a harder metal, therefore greater contact area on the AL mechanical butt splice. I have seen split bolts that were loose and you could pull the wire out easily and no melting or arcing. Thanks, Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc E - d...@solarwork.com V - 970.626.5253 F - 970.626.4140 C - 970.209.4076 web - www.solarwork.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Dana Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 4:24 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] AL wire with DC OG - Off Grid Thanks, Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc E - d...@solarwork.com V - 970.626.5253 F - 970.626.4140 C - 970.209.4076 web - www.solarwork.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Richard L Ratico Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 4:18 PM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] AL wire with DC Dana, Thanks for the input. Excuse me please, "OG jobs" are? If the wire had been copper and didn't melt, but instead continued to arc, would the resultant heat have eventually started a fire? What type of splice was it? Does no one else use Al for DC? Here in rocky Vermont/NH, we use the same type aluminum URD cable for both AC and DC runs, but, always installed in PVC conduit, never direct buried. Haven't seen seen a problem yet. Dick Ratico Solarwind Electric --- You wrote: The problem with Al is that, IF there is ever a loose connection, associated arcing, that it melts not like copper in the same situation which may arc but not melt. I have come in on OG jobs where Al was employed and found J boxes that were [sometimes wet] and had loose connections and the splice was charred/melted and the AL wire was not conducting melted beyond use, directly at the splice. The rubber linemen's tape was charred and there was a direct short to the metal box which was at least grounded correctly. I tend not to use Al based on this experience. Thanks, Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc E - d...@solarwork.com V - 970.626.5253 F - 970.626.4140 C - 970.209.4076 web - www.solarwork.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of R Ray Walters Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 7:46 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] calculating DC voltage drop I try to keep it in copper for DC, as I had always heard of trouble with Aluminum on DC. (True or Old Wrenches Tale?) We definitely go to Al on long AC runs, as its whats available, and the cost difference becomes remarkable. I've seen small cuts in Al, later corrode completely through the conductor.(AC run) I'm not sure what would happen it were DC. Probably depend on whether it was positive or negative, and which was bonded to ground? (either accelerate the corrosion, or act as cathodic protection?) R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer --- end of quote --- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wren ches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrench es.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3023 - Release Date: 07/23/10 00:36:00 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wren ches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrench es.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out
Re: [RE-wrenches] AL wire with DC
I think some of the advantage of the Cu in a bad connection is that it dissipates heat better. That might explain the melting Al, but not the Cu. Cu will melt and cook the insulation if the connection is loose enough at high enough amperage. Again, I have not personally seen a problem with Al on DC runs, I just haven't done it. 110.14 just specifies what we already know( I think), that you have to use special connectors that isolate the cu from direct contact with the Al. The new splice block type connectors are great for this. R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Jul 23, 2010, at 4:54 PM, Dana wrote: I cannot speak for what if. I have seen CU AL bolted in AL mechanical butt splices where someone did not torque it to spec. and it went to arcing. Both were a mess ; The butt splice was pitted / damaged and needed replacement, the AL cable melted and the copper cable did not. It the same amperage, but both were 1,600+watt arrays. But AL is softer and the strands are larger for the same size as CU wire. I think that there was a greater safety factor in the CU. More strands, finer wires, a harder metal, therefore greater contact area on the AL mechanical butt splice. I have seen split bolts that were loose and you could pull the wire out easily and no melting or arcing. Thanks, Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc E - d...@solarwork.com V - 970.626.5253 F - 970.626.4140 C - 970.209.4076 web - www.solarwork.com Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988 -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Dana Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 4:24 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] AL wire with DC OG - Off Grid Thanks, Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc E - d...@solarwork.com V - 970.626.5253 F - 970.626.4140 C - 970.209.4076 web - www.solarwork.com Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988 -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Richard L Ratico Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 4:18 PM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] AL wire with DC Dana, Thanks for the input. Excuse me please, OG jobs are? If the wire had been copper and didn't melt, but instead continued to arc, would the resultant heat have eventually started a fire? What type of splice was it? Does no one else use Al for DC? Here in rocky Vermont/NH, we use the same type aluminum URD cable for both AC and DC runs, but, always installed in PVC conduit, never direct buried. Haven't seen seen a problem yet. Dick Ratico Solarwind Electric --- You wrote: The problem with Al is that, IF there is ever a loose connection, associated arcing, that it melts not like copper in the same situation which may arc but not melt. I have come in on OG jobs where Al was employed and found J boxes that were [sometimes wet] and had loose connections and the splice was charred/melted and the AL wire was not conducting melted beyond use, directly at the splice. The rubber linemen's tape was charred and there was a direct short to the metal box which was at least grounded correctly. I tend not to use Al based on this experience. Thanks, Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc E - d...@solarwork.com V - 970.626.5253 F - 970.626.4140 C - 970.209.4076 web - www.solarwork.com Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988 -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of R Ray Walters Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 7:46 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] calculating DC voltage drop I try to keep it in copper for DC, as I had always heard of trouble with Aluminum on DC. (True or Old Wrenches Tale?) We definitely go to Al on long AC runs, as its whats available, and the cost difference becomes remarkable. I've seen small cuts in Al, later corrode completely through the conductor.(AC run) I'm not sure what would happen it were DC. Probably depend on whether it was positive or negative, and which was bonded to ground? (either accelerate the corrosion, or act as cathodic protection?) R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer --- end of quote --- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wren ches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrench es.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851
