Re: [RE-wrenches] CIS mods
Carl, Everything you said is true, but it does not answer the original question fully. It is more about the variation in electrical output than long term degradation. If I had to summarize it a different way it would be this. Flash testing a CIGS module to STC will give you certain voltages and ISC results. However, CIGS take longer to stabilize electrically. So exposing them to light for minutes or hours effects the voltages and current results. The CIGS don't reach peak levels until the modules have been fully soaked in light. The time it takes to soak the modules and the intensity of the effects depends not only on the different module types, but specific manufacturing approaches. Doug Wells The Solar Specialists Morrisville, VT 05661 (p) 802-223-7014 (c) 802-498-5856 www.thesolarspecialists.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] CIS mods
It is confusing that they refer to this as a light soaking effect. When we worked on this thin film article in SolarPro magazine a couple years ago, a researcher at NREL referred to this specific phenomenon as a dark soaking effect (see discussion under Performance Transients): http://solarprofessional.com/article/?file=SP4_1_pg34_Holz It is certainly possible for the Solar Frontier modules to have a better specific yield as compared to c-Si PV under certain environmental regimes. However, to suggest that this is always the case seems like overzealous marketing spin, which shouldn't really surprise anyone. There is a kernel of truth, but it is extrapolated ad absurdum. Bill Brooks likes to tell this joke/cautionary tale: You know how to tell when someone in marketing is lying? Their lips are moving. On Feb 18, 2013, at 6:25 PM, Kirpal Khalsa wrote: I don't understand the text as stated.I am not sure if they are simply referring to a common effect in most thin film panels where for the first few months they can output more than ratings, and then they settle down to what they are rated for, or if they are saying that after a few months the output will increase, once they are light soaked? -- Sunny Regards, Kirpal Khalsa NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer Renewable Energy Systems www.oregonsolarworks.com On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 4:13 PM, Marco Mangelsdorf ma...@pvthawaii.com wrote: Yes, I saw that. Sounds like smoke and mirrors to me. marco On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Carl Emerson c...@solarking.net.nz wrote: Marco. Did you notice the claim in the text as follows… The Light Soaking Effect Following an initial period of exposure to sunlight, the CIS light soaking effect will result in higher output than factory spec. This has been proven by field data from around the world If correct this answers your question… Time will tell I guess. Regards Carl Emerson Aloha, Solar Frontier in Japan, the maker of copper-indium-selenium (CIS) mods, claims that their product produces more kWhs per kW installed than crystalline silicon. http://www.solar-frontier.com/eng/cis/index.html If you go to the Softbank Field Results on the right tabs area you can download a 4-page PDF report. I’m wondering if this is a hot-out-of-the-box phenomenon similar to some other non-cSi products and that after X months in the field the output stabilizes at a lower level. Anyone have any idea or experience with this? Thanks, marco ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Sunny boy monitoring
Friends: I have a legacy client with a SB2500 remote from a residence. We are using a Control Light but it is becoming more and more unreliable. What experience do any of you have with PLC communications with the Sunny Boy using more modern equipment? Thanks in advance. William Miller Miller Solar Voice :805-438-5600 email: will...@millersolar.com http://millersolar.com License No. C-10-773985 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Snow loads
Has anyone in the snow belt areas have any luck with convincing their local building inspectors that the snow melts or slides from panels, much like a metal roof only better. Thus your snow load would be reduced to zero where the panels have been installed. Gary ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Snow loads
Most structural engineers I've seen take a reduction for slippery surface but I think you'd be stretching things to say adding PV panels reduces the load to zero. I have a 45 degree pitch roof and I get snow build up some times especially if we get freezing rain before the snow. Also if you have an asphalt shingle roof you can create an unbalanced load with snow sliding off the south side and sticking on the north side. Most engineers take this into consideration too. Thanks, Will __ Will White Regional Field Operations Manager - New England Real Goods Solar 64 Main St. Montpelier, VT 05602 Tel: (802) 223-7804 Cell: (802) 234-3167 www.realgoodssolar.comhttp://www.realgoodssolar.com/ From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Gary Bassett Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 1:48 PM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] Snow loads Has anyone in the snow belt areas have any luck with convincing their local building inspectors that the snow melts or slides from panels, much like a metal roof only better. Thus your snow load would be reduced to zero where the panels have been installed. Gary ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Outback Inverter Radio Interference
Hello Wrenches I'm having an issue with a pair of Outback inverters producing electromagnetic interference with the low band radios at a site we installed recently. Other than a Faraday cage does anyone have any methods of reducing the EMI from Outback inverters? I've been looking in to ferrite cores but can't seem to find a source that lists what the frequency is that is dissipated by the ferrite cores that I can find online. I need the ferrite cores to be in the range of 250kHz to 2MHz. Thanks, Vince McClellan Energy Design ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] CIS mods
Hi Marco. Try this link: http://1.usa.gov/W8m1bK Marco Mangelsdorf wrote at 07:15 PM 2/18/2013: I couldnt get that link to work, Doug. Thanks. From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [ mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Doug Wells Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 4:19 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] CIS mods Ok so its a reading night. There are a bunch of very good papers about this effect on all the different types of modules. www1.eere.energy.gov/ dfs/pvmrw2011_p25_tf_dunn.pdf Best summary of Soaking would be : controlled exposure to light under controlled environmental conditions. The soaking seems to come from exposing the panel to light for --extended-- periods. Thus finding the effects on the panel after it has reached a critical point of light exposure. Like a sponge, the panel has been fully soaked with light. Then they observe effects. Some pretty interesting effects in some panels. Doug Wells ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback Inverter Radio Interference
Look into Amodon ferrite cores. On 2/19/2013 1:30 PM, Vince McClellan wrote: Hello Wrenches I'm having an issue with a pair of Outback inverters producing electromagnetic interference with the low band radios at a site we installed recently. Other than a Faraday cage does anyone have any methods of reducing the EMI from Outback inverters? I've been looking in to ferrite cores but can't seem to find a source that lists what the frequency is that is dissipated by the ferrite cores that I can find online. I need the ferrite cores to be in the range of 250kHz to 2MHz. Thanks, Vince McClellan Energy Design ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Frank Lewon BZ Products INC. 8801 Gravois Rd. St. Louis MO 63123 USA ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Snow loads
I would certainly agree with Will here. You can't make that argument as stated, it's wrong. Please don't try to make it to your AHJ, you take the chance of f-ing it up for everyone around there. I think the best argument you can try is: aside from the usual 3-4lbs/sq/ft that the array itself ads to the roof load, snow will be very unlikely to build up on the modules to the degree that it builds up anywhere else on the roof. The freezing-rain-before-a-snow phenomena is very real and it WILL happen sooner or later. Not often perhaps and under most conditions the snow will leave the modules before the roof. But...Gotta be real about that. Bob-O Schultze On Feb 19, 2013, at 11:06 AM, Will White wrote: Most structural engineers I’ve seen take a reduction for slippery surface but I think you’d be stretching things to say adding PV panels reduces the load to zero. I have a 45 degree pitch roof and I get snow build up some times especially if we get freezing rain before the snow. Also if you have an asphalt shingle roof you can create an unbalanced load with snow sliding off the south side and sticking on the north side. Most engineers take this into consideration too. Thanks, Will __ Will White Regional Field Operations Manager – New England Real Goods Solar 64 Main St. Montpelier, VT 05602 Tel: (802) 223-7804 Cell: (802) 234-3167 www.realgoodssolar.com From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Gary Bassett Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 1:48 PM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] Snow loads Has anyone in the snow belt areas have any luck with convincing their local building inspectors that the snow melts or slides from panels, much like a metal roof only better. Thus your snow load would be reduced to zero where the panels have been installed. Gary ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Snow loads
about 10 years ago - after a particularly heavy duty (more than usual) mount shasta snow storm, the county raised the snow load specifications here from 40#/sq ft to 60#/sq ft... which made all existing roofs substandard, so while they are grandfathered in, adding 2 to 3 #/sq ft for solar is not allowed. i tried to reason with the building department with your logic that the snow would now slide off the roof rather than accumulate... but got no joy. the solution is usually to find an engineer willing to certify the roof will hold the loading... but i tend to shy away from roof mounts here in snow country anyway because often the lower module frame edge gets peeled off the panel usually resulting in broken glass. todd On Tuesday, February 19, 2013 10:48am, Gary Bassett g...@hudsonsolar.com said: Has anyone in the snow belt areas have any luck with convincing their local building inspectors that the snow melts or slides from panels, much like a metal roof only better. Thus your snow load would be reduced to zero where the panels have been installed. Gary Sent from Finest Planet WebMail. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] SB2500 Refurbish program gone
Friends: SMA is no longer offering refurbished SB2500 inverters. If you find a dead one, the only option is to acquire a refurbished SB5000US for $700.00. This is touted as an upgrade but I don't see it that way. Rarely will you want to add more solar. Usually the system was originally designed to either fill the roof or provide the needed solar energy. Furthermore, try matching strings of modules from a 5 or more year old system with new modules. Ain't likely to happen. And the 5000US is just bigger and won't always fit where the 2500 was. Added headache: The SB5000US inverters are sent out sans accessories, specifically: mounting bracket, bug screens, fasteners or AC/DC disconnect. They are sent as if you are replacing an existing 5000US and have those parts already. The AC/DC disconnect function may not be needed since you already should have AC/DC disconnecting means outboard of your 2500 (or 1800, for that matter), but the AC/DC disconnect is part of the mounting system. Without it the bottom of the US inverter is just swinging in the breeze. An option is to build a flat bracket, pretty easy to do, but you would want to be warned in advance so you bring the material and metric fasteners. It is a shame that with such a large installed base of SB2500 inverters out there that the factory will no longer repair them. Is there a third party repair shop I don't know about? William Miller Miller Solar Voice :805-438-5600 email: will...@millersolar.com http://millersolar.com License No. C-10-773985 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Water tank for dump load
Wrenches, I am designing a system with a sizable diversion load and am looking for the smallest water tank I can get with four ports for elements. I will be supplying my own elements and need four 1 bungs. I am definitely trying to avoid a large, expensive solar thermal tank, but that is all I have found so far. The tank can be very small because I will be circulating between it and a much larger storage tank. 20 gallons would be ideal. Anyone have a tip on a cheap, small tank with 4 ports? Thanks! -Nathan -- Nathan J. Stumpff - Arctic Sun, LLC NABCEP Certified PV Installer #091209-175 NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer #032412-14 nat...@arcticsun-llc.commailto:nat...@arcticsun-llc.com Office: 907/457-1297 http://www.facebook.com/ArcticSunLLC ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Lorentz Pumps
Hello Wrenches, Has anyone had recent experience with the Lorentz PS (PV) line of pumps, both centrifugal and helical? I searched the archives and there was some feedback on Lorentz pumps two years ago. Just wondering if anyone had anything more recent. Thanks, Tom Tom DeBates Habi-Tek Geneva,IL. 60134 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Water tank for dump load
Hi Nathan, Greer Tank in Fairbanks could weld in additional bungs into whatever tank you want. They have certified pressure vessel welders. You are hardly in prime tank season, so I would imagine this would be relatively cheap. Or you could look at McMaster-Carr's tanks on page 956. Go to mcmaster.com and punch in 956 into the search box. They have a 15 gallon that appears to have three 1 bungs + one 1-1/4 bung + one 1/2 bung. Galvanized steel for $213.76 ... in stock ... ships from Los Angeles. They have a 30 gallon, too. You can e-mail them and ask nicely and you might get a better drawing or a manufacturer part number. I bet I know what project this is for. :-) -James Jarvis APRS World, LLC On 02/19/2013 04:44 PM, Nathan Stumpff wrote: Wrenches, I am designing a system with a sizable diversion load and am looking for the smallest water tank I can get with four ports for elements. I will be supplying my own elements and need four 1” bungs. I am definitely trying to avoid a large, expensive solar thermal tank, but that is all I have found so far. The tank can be very small because I will be circulating between it and a much larger storage tank. 20 gallons would be ideal. Anyone have a tip on a cheap, small tank with 4 ports? Thanks! -Nathan -- Nathan J. Stumpff - Arctic Sun, LLC NABCEP Certified PV Installer #091209-175 NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer #032412-14 nat...@arcticsun-llc.com mailto:nat...@arcticsun-llc.com Office: 907/457-1297 http://www.facebook.com/ArcticSunLLC ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- -James Jefferson Jarvis APRS World, LLC +1-507-454-2727 www.aprsworld.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Lorentz Pumps
Tom, Rant: ON I would caution you to be very careful working with Lorentz pumps. About 16 months ago we got a service request from a longtime customer for whom we had installed an ETA (Lorentz) PV-direct submersible in late 2005. The pump had worked well for nearly 7 years, serving community water for four off grid households, but the helical rotor had finally worn out, as I recall. I called GenPro about purchasing a replacement head, and was told that the US has been divided into northern and southern territories by Lorentz, and I needed to contact another company (whose name is in our records but not my head). That company told me that we could neither buy a replacement head nor a replacement pump, as we were not licensed pump dealers. Grundfos had once allowed their pumps to be sold through all sorts of channels, and it came back to bite them hard, as PV internet retailers with salespeople who knew next-to nothing about pump selection and water system design were selling pumps to anyone with a thick wallet. Grundfos tech support was overwhelmed, and changed policy to allow their pumps to be sold only through water and well industry distributors. That made a lot of sense to me, and we never lost our ability to spec, purchase and install their pumps, as our longtime conventional pump distributor knew we knew our business. But we'll never become "licensed pump installers", and as a result, we'll never carry or recommend Lorentz pumps. I had sworn off ETAPumps years ago when the failure rate was too high; I had eventually learned that those issues had been resolved and the pumps and controllers were proving pretty reliable. But this issue killed it for me. If anyone can offer an update to suggest that the situation has changed, please do so! (Jeez, I have a Lorentz pump in my own well at home, courtesy of Windy. I'd replace it, but it just hasn't stopped working yet. Talk about a bit of hypocrisy...) Rant: OFF Tom, Besides getting feedback from other Wrenches, I'd talk with GenPro, your distributor, about support. I'm copying this message to them; if I get a useful response about my rant, I'll post it to the list. Allan Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer Positive Energy, Inc. 3209 Richards Lane (note new address) Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com On 2/19/2013 3:01 PM, Tom DeBates wrote: Hello Wrenches, Has anyone had recent experience with the Lorentz PS (PV) line of pumps, both centrifugal and helical? I searched the archives and there was some feedback on Lorentz pumps two years ago. Just wondering if anyone had anything more recent. Thanks, Tom Tom DeBates Habi-Tek Geneva,IL. 60134 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Lorentz Pumps
Ditto on my experience with Lorentz. I have pulled more than I can count and recycled. I have had a great experience with BISON SOLAR helical pumps we have several in and no issues. Typ designed for stock tanks they can be field configured for domestic pumping AC DC. Huge range of options and sizes. E - i...@bisonsolar.com [580]646.0911 Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc - NABCEP # 051112-136 d...@solarwork.com - www.solarwork.com O - 970.626.5253F - 970.626.4140 C - 970.209.4076 Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Allan Sindelar Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 4:37 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Lorentz Pumps Tom, Rant: ON I would caution you to be very careful working with Lorentz pumps. About 16 months ago we got a service request from a longtime customer for whom we had installed an ETA (Lorentz) PV-direct submersible in late 2005. The pump had worked well for nearly 7 years, serving community water for four off grid households, but the helical rotor had finally worn out, as I recall. I called GenPro about purchasing a replacement head, and was told that the US has been divided into northern and southern territories by Lorentz, and I needed to contact another company (whose name is in our records but not my head). That company told me that we could neither buy a replacement head nor a replacement pump, as we were not licensed pump dealers. Grundfos had once allowed their pumps to be sold through all sorts of channels, and it came back to bite them hard, as PV internet retailers with salespeople who knew next-to nothing about pump selection and water system design were selling pumps to anyone with a thick wallet. Grundfos tech support was overwhelmed, and changed policy to allow their pumps to be sold only through water and well industry distributors. That made a lot of sense to me, and we never lost our ability to spec, purchase and install their pumps, as our longtime conventional pump distributor knew we knew our business. But we'll never become licensed pump installers, and as a result, we'll never carry or recommend Lorentz pumps. I had sworn off ETAPumps years ago when the failure rate was too high; I had eventually learned that those issues had been resolved and the pumps and controllers were proving pretty reliable. But this issue killed it for me. If anyone can offer an update to suggest that the situation has changed, please do so! (Jeez, I have a Lorentz pump in my own well at home, courtesy of Windy. I'd replace it, but it just hasn't stopped working yet. Talk about a bit of hypocrisy...) Rant: OFF Tom, Besides getting feedback from other Wrenches, I'd talk with GenPro, your distributor, about support. I'm copying this message to them; if I get a useful response about my rant, I'll post it to the list. Allan Allan Sindelar mailto:al...@positiveenergysolar.com al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer Positive Energy, Inc. 3209 Richards Lane (note new address) Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/ On 2/19/2013 3:01 PM, Tom DeBates wrote: Hello Wrenches, Has anyone had recent experience with the Lorentz PS (PV) line of pumps, both centrifugal and helical? I searched the archives and there was some feedback on Lorentz pumps two years ago. Just wondering if anyone had anything more recent. Thanks, Tom Tom DeBates Habi-Tek Geneva,IL. 60134 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
