Re: [RE-wrenches] Module snail trails

[Bryan Norkunas via RE-wrenches]

Looking at the pictures again, I wonder if there might be a pinhole in the back 
lamination that is allowing water into the module.




Bryan Norkunas

PV-Cables Inc.

989 Milton Ave Ste 1D

Ferndale CA 95536

(707) 923-3000 office

www.pv-cables.com<http://www.pv-cables.com/>

 [cid:8b840384-c5f3-42a6-b643-c70a0c8359f7]



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From: RE-wrenches  on behalf of Jon 
Dixon via RE-wrenches 
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2024 9:07 AM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org 
Cc: Jon Dixon 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Module snail trails

Hello All,

I have a local utility with a 50Kw array installed in 2015 consisting of 200 
ReneSola 250w modules and 3 SMA Tripower 15000TL-US -10. They are having Arc 
fault code on two of the inverters. This has been going on for a few years now. 
It happens a couple times a year generally after a large rain. They just reset 
the code and it comes back to life.

They gave me a walk through and we noticed that a number of modules have snail 
trails. I have attached a closeup picture I took and IR views of affected 
module and non affected. It was a 90 deg day when the utility took the IR 
pictures.

Causes for snail trails that I found:

  *   The difference in chemical properties of EVA foils and the silver contacts
  *   The degradation extent of the EVA material
  *   Water vapor permeability of the solar panel’s backsheet material

I did find that if you have snail trails you will have micro fractures. I did 
see some info that micro fractures could cause arc faults.

Finally my question is can snail trails cause arc faults also?


Thanks Jon

--
Jonathan Dixon
Dixon Power Systems
3250 N 20th St  Ste 1
Lincoln, NE 68521
402-467-3240
j...@dixonpowersystems.com<mailto:j...@dixonpowersystems.com>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Module snail trails

[Bryan Norkunas via RE-wrenches]

Jon,

Do you recall which PV connectors were on the modules and what they used for 
extension cables?

Around that time, Amphenol H4 connectors had issues due to the plastic housings 
failing and allowing water into the connections.



Bryan Norkunas

PV-Cables Inc.

989 Milton Ave Ste 1D

Ferndale CA 95536

(707) 923-3000 office

www.pv-cables.com<http://www.pv-cables.com/>

 [cid:aa320544-f89d-44fc-a3e9-bb468c2d9953]



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From: RE-wrenches  on behalf of Jon 
Dixon via RE-wrenches 
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2024 9:07 AM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org 
Cc: Jon Dixon 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Module snail trails

Hello All,

I have a local utility with a 50Kw array installed in 2015 consisting of 200 
ReneSola 250w modules and 3 SMA Tripower 15000TL-US -10. They are having Arc 
fault code on two of the inverters. This has been going on for a few years now. 
It happens a couple times a year generally after a large rain. They just reset 
the code and it comes back to life.

They gave me a walk through and we noticed that a number of modules have snail 
trails. I have attached a closeup picture I took and IR views of affected 
module and non affected. It was a 90 deg day when the utility took the IR 
pictures.

Causes for snail trails that I found:

  *   The difference in chemical properties of EVA foils and the silver contacts
  *   The degradation extent of the EVA material
  *   Water vapor permeability of the solar panel’s backsheet material

I did find that if you have snail trails you will have micro fractures. I did 
see some info that micro fractures could cause arc faults.

Finally my question is can snail trails cause arc faults also?


Thanks Jon

--
Jonathan Dixon
Dixon Power Systems
3250 N 20th St  Ste 1
Lincoln, NE 68521
402-467-3240
j...@dixonpowersystems.com<mailto:j...@dixonpowersystems.com>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] favortie micro inverters?

[Bryan Norkunas via RE-wrenches]

I've had great luck with APS and so have our local installers.


Bryan Norkunas

PV-Cables Inc.

989 Milton Ave Ste 1D

Ferndale CA 95536

(707) 923-3000 office

www.pv-cables.com<http://www.pv-cables.com/>

 [cid:993effd1-5a11-435e-8ca4-61fd29e3ef90]



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From: RE-wrenches  on behalf of greg 
egan via RE-wrenches 
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2024 7:29 PM
To: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org 
Cc: greg egan 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] favortie micro inverters?

Esteemed wrenches,

Have a client that is grid connected (not my usual client) and looking
to do solar without back up.  Has shading issues so I'm thinking micros
would work best for this application, plus take care of rapid shut down
without needing extra devices/wiring.  Problem is I have not ever
installed micros.

Any recommendations on brands /models that have been reliable? Decent
tech support?  Customer just wants something that works and is
relatively simple to navigate the online monitoring.  Probably 4-5 kW so
not a huge system.

Thanks in advance, I appreciate it!

Greg Egan
Remote Power Inc.
Fairbanks, AK
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Re: [RE-wrenches] DC fan for greenhouse

[Bryan Norkunas via RE-wrenches]

I have also used SnapFans and they are great quailty.
SnapFan was sold a year or so ago, the new owners I think are based in AZ



Bryan Norkunas

PV-Cables Inc.

989 Milton Ave Ste 1D

Ferndale CA 95536

(707) 923-3000 office

www.pv-cables.com<http://www.pv-cables.com/>

 [cid:33b5ed1a-0116-44eb-a19d-84b987c7fa9c]



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From: RE-wrenches  on behalf of 
solareagle--- via RE-wrenches 
Sent: Tuesday, July 9, 2024 10:12 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: solarea...@solareagle.com 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] DC fan for greenhouse

I’ve used Snap Fans as well, they come in various configurations, both AC & DC. 
Good quality for sure but not cheap.

Ron Young
earthRight Solar


On Jul 9, 2024, at 6:43 AM, AE Solar via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:

We had used some Snap-Fans many many years ago on some greenhouse applications. 
Looks like they are still in business and their product line has expanded so 
that says something….
http://www.snap-fan.com/


Adam Katzman (he/him)
Autonomous Energies | Owner/Operator
www.AutonomousEnergies.com<http://www.autonomousenergies.com/>
(518) 567-1468



On Tue, Jul 9, 2024 at 9:36 AM David Palumbo via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> 
wrote:
Wrenchters,

I have a friend looking for a DC fan for his 20' x 40' greenhouse here in 
northern Vermont.

Recommendations please.

Thanks,

Dave Palumbo
Hyde Park, VT
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k solar panel frame grounding

[Bryan Norkunas via RE-wrenches]

White PV wire was something we used to sell often, but that demand has dropped 
off in the last 5 years or so and always wondered why.
Thanks for sharing William

Sunny Regards,
[Description: Description: PV-Cables_Logo_Transparent_Bkgnd_140x140]

Bryan Norkunas
PV-Cables Inc.
989 Milton Ave Ste 1D
Ferndale CA 95536
(707) 923-3000 office
www.pv-cables.com<http://www.pv-cables.com/>


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From: RE-wrenches  on behalf of 
William Miller via RE-wrenches 
Sent: Wednesday, June 5, 2024 12:53:52 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: William Miller 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k solar panel frame grounding


Friends:



On a related subject, I was researching the question: What color should my 
grounded PV conductor be?



History:



In the beginning, negative leads were always black.



When it became apparent that negative PV leads were indeed grounded, the 
requirement to have them white or grey became enforced per 200.6(A)(3).



When transformerless inverters were implemented it was assumed the negative was 
floating, so white/grey was no longer acceptable.



Then the NEC recognized that some leads were kind of grounded, not solidly, but 
through some components, either OCPD, resistors, sensor or a combination.  A 
new term was created,  functionally grounded.  This grounding was most often 
done to implement ground fault detection and interruption, or GFDI.  I always 
assumed that if PV equipment had GFDI it had to feature a grounded polarity, 
most often indirectly, or functionally.



Grounded conductors need to be white or grey.  Therefore we are back to needing 
grey/white, most often for the negative lead.



I wanted to verify if the Sol-Arc PV inputs established a grounded lead.  They 
have GFDI so I assumed it likely they did.  In order to verify, I called 
Sol-Arc.  Their tech support had no idea what I was talking about.  They did 
not know the term functionally grounded and could not verify if their equipment 
established a ground connection, solid or otherwise, to either polarity.



This distinction applies here because it may help determine what is causing the 
GFDI fault.  I can’t tell you for sure if one side of the PV circuit is 
functionally grounded, but if it is, grounding it elsewhere will defeat the 
GFDI and may cause nuisance tripping.



Does anyone know if Sol-Arc PV inputs have a functional ground bond?



Side note:  I called my local Greentech distributor, who sells plenty of 
Sol-Arc inverters and asked if they carried white PV wire.  They said none of 
their customers are asking for white PV wire.  I suspect they should be using 
white for negative leads.  I can’t confirm that because Sol-Arc can’t tell me 
it the PV circuits are functionally grounded or not.  Frustrating!



Fortunately the manual for Outback charge controllers specifically says the 
negative lead is functionally grounded.  So if you are installing Outback CCs 
you must use white or grey.  PV-Cables sells white PV wire.



Confusing?  Yeah, a bit.  But as my local roofing companies say:  “Solar?  It 
can’t be that complicated!”



William Miller



Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com<http://www.millersolar.com/>

CA Lic. 773985





From: RE-wrenches 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>]
 On Behalf Of Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches
Sent: Wednesday, June 5, 2024 6:02 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Cc: Jason Szumlanski
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k solar panel frame grounding



Can anybody clarify the following instruction from the manual?



"GND the panel MOUNTS/FRAMES to any GND outside the circuit via 12AWG wire"



Does this mean do not connect the array equipment grounding conductor to the 
grounding terminal in the inverter? Where would be the suggested place to 
connect the equipment grounding conductor, and why does it make a difference? 
It would still be electrically bonded to the grounding terminal in the inverter.



I'm asking because I do, in fact, have an equipment grounding conductor from 
the array connected to the ground terminal in the inverter at a home. I am 
getting an F08 GFDI fault. The manual doesn't say anything about the DC side 
with respect to this error. It suggests it is an AC current leakage to ground. 
But Sol-Ark tech support suggested that I disconnect the PV to rule it out as a 
source of the fault.







Jason Szumlanski

Florida Solar Design Group
__

Re: [RE-wrenches] TPM Search

[Bryan Norkunas via RE-wrenches]

Try Solar Rack Works


[Description: Description: PV-Cables_Logo_Transparent_Bkgnd_140x140]

Bryan Norkunas
PV-Cables Inc.
989 Milton Ave Ste 1D
Ferndale CA 95536
(707) 923-3000 office
www.pv-cables.com<http://www.pv-cables.com/>


 [cid:image002.jpg@01DA17CF.578FC540]  Please print only if necessary.

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From: RE-wrenches  on behalf of 
Nathan J. Stumpff via RE-wrenches 
Sent: Friday, March 8, 2024 2:40:20 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Nathan J. Stumpff 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] TPM Search

It’s been a few years since I bought these but it looks like they are still 
going, I always thought it was a good product when I bought in the past:

https://www.mtsolar.us/

Cheers,
-Nathan

On Fri, Mar 8, 2024 at 2:31 PM Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> 
wrote:
With news that PLP has dropped the TPM line, what are you all recommending for 
a good mount for up to 8 modules , 400 w range.
I looked in the archives, but no luck.
I thought there was someone formerly at DPW that was making them.

Jeremy Rodriguez
Solar Installation / Design
All Solar, Inc.
1453 M St.
Penrose Colorado 81240

Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand.
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC interpretation/guidance?

[Bryan Norkunas via RE-wrenches]

It was explained to me, the compounds Amphenol used in this large batch of 
connector housings were bad/incorrect.

We started seeing failures on these modules as quickly as 6 months of being in 
service.

Bryan Norkunas
PV-Cables




Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>

From: RE-wrenches  on behalf of Jay 
via RE-wrenches 
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2023 7:39:43 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Jay 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC 
interpretation/guidance?

I’ve wondered what other variables are at work given that mostly these 
connectors work as they should.

I’d like to see them come with plugs covering the openings. This would keep 
dirt, salt air, moisture, etc  out until they are connected.

As to if there were lots of failures with SW modules then I wonder if whoever 
built the whips had poor quality control. Might be they were not seated 
properly or dirty or the crimp they used wasn’t calibrated correctly or they 
were stored in a salt environment creating corrosion or something like that.

I looked up the specs last night on the mc4 and it’s like 30+ amps depending on 
the wire, pretty impressive

Jay







On Nov 10, 2023, at 5:53 AM, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Mine was a roof mount. We had very few SolarWorld projects. In fact, this might 
be our only one.

On Fri, Nov 10, 2023, 8:10 AM Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> 
wrote:
I'd be curious to know of the connector failures y'all have experienced, were 
the majority of these roof mounts?
Just wondering if with better air flow like that of a pole/ground mount, if 
that helped to minimize connector failure.

Christopher

On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 1:21 AM Bill Battagin via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> 
wrote:

Ray,

Exactly the same thing happened for me on a ground mount system, 
3500 feet elevation the the Sierras so open cooler air, fully engaged MC4 
factory connectors PV to PV connectors with SW285's, not passing current, 
melted.  No attempt to contact SW just made up new connectors.

My calculation is with anything that is no doubt made up by the 
bazillion with a machine (connectors, light bulbs, pencils, chicken nuggets, 
etc) you're going to get some duds.  In 20+ years of installing PVs with 
factory made-up connectors, I've only seen this happen 2-3 times.  Installing 
in the mountains we no doubt use ground mount much more often than most 
installs in urban areas which would make a hot, melted connector possibly more 
of an issue a couple inches above a comp or wood roof.  We've never seen any 
connectors fail beyond the melted/deformed but still "contained" stage .

Back when SW was first transitioning from one connector to another, 
I remember them saying they (I think it was UTX and MC or was it UTX and 
Amphenol?) were compatible.  We NEVER mixed connectors despite their claim.

Bill

Feather River Solar Electric
4291 Nelson St. (Shipping)
5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)
Taylorsville, CA  95983
530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell)
CA. C10 Lic # 874049
Solar Powered since 1982
Home of the Sunny Side Up

On 11/9/2023 4:31 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote:

I'm trying to find a pic to post, but they were MC4 connectors, not the UTX.

Ray

On 11/9/2023 4:57 PM, Brian Mehalic wrote:
Are they the Amohenol UTX connectors? SW had a recall on them, sounds like 
about the right timeframe.

<https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2017/03/29/solarworld-recalls-amphenol-connectors-sold-with-pv-modules/>
[X]
BREAKING: SolarWorld recalls PV modules with Amphenol 
connectors<https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2017/03/29/solarworld-recalls-amphenol-connectors-sold-with-pv-modules/>
pv-magazine-usa.com<https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2017/03/29/solarworld-recalls-amphenol-connectors-sold-with-pv-modules/>


Brian

On Nov 9, 2023, at 4:47 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches 
<mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> 
wrote:



12 Ga wire is not going to catch on fire, but the MC connectors might.  I just 
went back on a 7 yr old Solarworld install, and had a bad series MC connector 
(module to module).  It got quite crispy, deforming and bubbling the plastic on 
both sides of the connection.  It was still passing current; I didn't get a 
chance to measure the volt drop.  It was completely plugged in, so not an 
installation issue.

This was not one of our connectors made up in the field, these were Solarworld 
factory connectors on both sides, same model modules.  That also means no 
mismatch of "MC4" connector type.

10+ amps continuous, moist environment, 30F+  hotter than ambient temp, all are 
tough on connectors.  I predict more connector failures as module current 
ratings increase.

Ray Walters
Remote Solar

On 11/9/2023 3:02 PM, Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches wrote:

Good luck tryi

Re: [RE-wrenches] Cleaning PV mods

[Bryan Norkunas via RE-wrenches]

When our area experienced a lot of ash from nearby forest fires, I ended up 
purchasing a telescopic brush that big rig truckers use to wash their trucks 
and had great success.  If I recall it was around $80 and it extended 20ft and 
came with a few different attachments.  

 

Bryan @ PV-Cables

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2023 9:02 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Cc: Kirk Herander
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Cleaning PV mods

 

A customer of mine has both hot and cold water plumbed to his outdoor hose 
spigots, similar to an indoor sink, so he can clean anything outside with a 
warm to hot mix if necessary. Obviously better cleaning than cold alone.

 

On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 9:45 AM White, Will via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:

I worked with a guy who had done installs in Arizona. He had an off-grid 
customer spray down their array with cold well water in the middle of the day, 
which shattered the module glass. 

 

I’m sure it was an isolated incident, but it happened.

 

Thanks,

Will

 

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2023 4:47 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Jason Szumlanski 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [RE-wrenches] Cleaning PV mods

 

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click 
links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content 
is safe.

 

I don't understand the thermal shock nonsense. It routinely starts downpouring 
here when it's blazing hot out (sun showers) and the rain is way cooler than 
ground water in summer. It makes no sense. If hose water from the ground is 
going to hurt solar panels, you better not put them where it rains!  

 

I replied privately to Dana, but for the benefit of the group, it takes a heavy 
soiling to make any appreciable difference. I have done numerous tests at times 
of high pollen and found little to no benefit to cleaning solar panels. 
Certainly it would not be worth paying someone to do it. Other climates may 
have different results. My suggestion would be to test first. Module level 
power electronics can provide incontrovertible proof.

 

Jason

 

 

On Fri, Oct 20, 2023, 4:21 PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:

Hi Dana,  

 

See attached from REC. I would imagine these guidelines would apply to all 
modules.

Cheers,

Dave

 

On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 3:56 PM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:

Hey ally ‘all,

 

Ok bad solar installer! 7 years & I have never cleaned my modules & live on a 
dirt road. Yeah rain does a good job with the dust but there is a film mostly 
on the edges.

 

What does everyone do for cleaning?

 

My array is 16’+ tall on a hill side. I have a pressure washer & was going to 
pick up a large sponge type mop & mount it on a painters extension pole. 

 

Good Biodegradable cleaning solutions?

 

 

_

Dana OrzelGREAT SOLAR WORKS!  

C – 208.721.7003  E –   d...@solarwork.com

W - www. greatsolarworks.com 

   

 www.solarwork.com

“Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!”

 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Intermittent

[Bryan Norkunas via RE-wrenches]

In my experience, if the Trina modules have the TS4 connectors on them and are 
mated to an MC4 connector they tend to have issues.

Bryan


-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Hilton Dier via RE-wrenches
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2023 2:15 PM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Cc: Hilton Dier
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Intermittent

Hello Wrenches

Here’s a classic problem for you. I installed an array of 11 Trina 380s on a 
ground mount, commissioned January 6 of this year. It worked fine for a while, 
but in the last week it has had an intermittent power problem. 

For example, this morning it was putting out zero watts at the inverter. I 
measured voltage at the disconnect at the array and got zero volts. I checked 
all the connections and wires and it all seemed solid. I had to leave so I 
couldn’t start isolating modules. I came back this afternoon and it was 
producing an appropriate amount of power for the light conditions. 

What’s the most obvious thing that could be going on? Some kind of micro crack 
and thermal expansion?

Thanks,

Hilton Dier III
Renewable Energy Design
Missisquoi River Hydro LLC
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Re: [RE-wrenches] VFX3648

[Bryan Norkunas]

Could check with Zonna Energy, they might have stock.

Bryan Norkunas
PV-Cables Inc. 
989 Milton Ave Ste 1D
Ferndale CA 95536
(707) 923-3000 office
www.pv-cables.com





-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Marco Mangelsdorf
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2021 3:25 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] VFX3648

A number listed on eBay.

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2021 12:23 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] VFX3648

Hello Wrenches,

Does anyone know where an Outback VFX 3648 inverter might be purchased?

Thanks,

Drake

Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric LLC
Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810
CO Master Electrician’s License 4526
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional



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Re: [RE-wrenches] MC4s are listed for THWN, right?

[Bryan Norkunas]

Surprised to read no one mentioning the Wiley Pass Thru boxes.

That is what I used on my house, though I had a cranky inspector and wanted to 
avoid any conflicts.

Yes, they are expensive, but they are UL and easy.

 

Bryan Norkunas

.

 

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Glenn Burt
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 11:01 AM
To: drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org; RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] MC4s are listed for THWN, right?

 

However if it is not listed as compatible with it, why use it?

 

-Glenn

Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.

 

-- Original message--

From: drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org

Date: Tue, Apr 27, 2021 1:42 PM

To: RE-wrenches;

Cc: 

Subject:Re: [RE-wrenches] MC4s are listed for THWN, right?

 

On a practical note, MC-4 functions fine with THHN inside a weather 
proof enclosure. It will not seal, due to
 the smaller overall diameter 
of the cable.
 
THHN is rated for 90C. It is not sunlight resistant, and should never be 
used exposed.
 
---
 
 
On 2021-04-26 23  :16, frenergy wrote:
> Blake,
> 
> Its great to get definitive clarification on this MC4/THHN
> issue, we've been using 4-14 Polaris connectors with good results. 
> Being inside a Nema3 can and having silicone grease in the Polaris
> makes for a solid, durable connection.  Inspecting some of these that
> are now 17 years in the field shows very good condition for the wire
> landing in the Polaris and the condition of THWN-2 wire insulation. 
> We haven't had the best of luck with Buchanans.
> 
> Bill
> 
> Feather River Solar Electric
> Bill Battagin, Owner
> 4291 Nelson St.
> Taylorsville, CA 95983
> 530.284.7849
> CA Lic 874049
> www.frenergy.net
> 
> On 4/26/2021 5:41 PM, Blake Gleason wrote:
>> Corey,
>> 
>> Thank you!  Agreed, the message from Staubli's Eng dept is much less 
>> confusing (with the exception of the statement about THHN tending to 
>> be solid vs stranded).
>> 
>> All -
>> What are you folks using to transition from PV Wire to THHN/THWN-2 
>> inside a junction box?  We used to use split bolts, which make an 
>> awesome electrical connection, but are time-consuming and not easily 
>> serviceable.  Wire nuts (the right ones) are Listed, but never felt 
>> reliable for that purpose.  Same for WAGO levers.  I hear about people 
>> using Buchanan splice caps, but I wonder about trading one set of 
>> crimping problems for another.  And of course, the only problem with 
>> using THHN in an MC4 is that the compression gland may not
 be as 
>> watertight as it is with PVWire, and the Buchanans certainly are not 
>> watertight.  Terminal blocks generally aren't listed, definitely 
>> aren't watertight, and raise inspectors' eyebrows.  Why is this so 
>> hard for me??
>> 
>> Best,
>> Blake
>> Thanks
>> 
> 
> --
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Re: [RE-wrenches] MC4s are listed for THWN, right?

[Bryan Norkunas]

The MC4-Evo 2 isn’t the typical MC4 connector we are used to in the United 
States, these are commonly found in Europe, designed to meet European standards.

 

Standard MC4 on the left, EVO-2 on the right pictured below:

MC4 and MC4-Evo 2 portfolio first with new IEC certification

 

 

The MC4 pictured by Jason is not an EVo-2 connector and there for not approved 
for PVC cable.

 

 

Bryan Norkunas

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Blake Gleason
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2021 9:24 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] MC4s are listed for THWN, right?

 

Bryan,

 

Thank you for the link.  I am confused by the "PVC" section you referenced.  
Here's the complete text:

 

  For safety reasons Stäubli prohibits the use of PVC cables. Cables made from 
PVC can be connected to MC4-Evo 2 since the insulation material of the 
connector (Polyamide) is suitable to be connected to PVC. PVC cables usually 
have an upper limiting temperature of 70 °C, in fixed installations sometimes 
80 °C.  

 

THHN/THWN-2 is made with PVC insulation, so I assume that it falls under the 
category of a "PVC cable."

 

So, the first sentence seems to say that it's not allowed by Staubli.  But then 
the second sentence seems to say that is IS allowed.  And then the third 
sentence doesn't seem to be contemplating the most common PVC wire type of all 
(in the US), which is THHN/THWN-2, which has a 90 degree rating?!

 

Can you help un-confuse me?

 

Thank you!

Blake

 

On Mon, Apr 26, 2021 at 8:55 AM Bryan Norkunas  wrote:

Trying this again since my first link didn’t work, here is the link to the MFG 
specs for NON PV , low DC applications:

 

https://ec.staubli.com/AcroFiles/Technical%20Info/PV_SOL-LVDC_(en).pdf

 

 

For safety reasons Stäubli prohibits the use of thermoplastic PVC insulation 
cables.

 

 

 

 

Bryan Norkunas

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Chris Sparadeo
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2021 8:30 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] MC4s are listed for THWN, right?

 

Also have to appreciate the 8 screws holding that 6x6”. 

 

On Fri, Apr 23, 2021 at 12:13 AM Jay  wrote:

Yes they are. 

Their rating is based on wire size, number of strands, material, insulation 
thickness. 

Insulation material isn’t specified. 

Jay 

Peltz power. 

> On Apr 22, 2021, at 7:35 PM, Jason Szumlanski 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I found this gem today while tracking down an AFCI fault. This was one of 
> three strings connected to a Sunny Boy 9000TL. I was surprised at how rare 
> and intermittent the AFCI fault was. The THWN pulled out effortlessly. 
> 
> I was surprised because usually I spend many hours tracking down AFCI 
> problems only to find out it's a bad inverter. 
> 
> Jason
> 
> 
> 
> <20210422_123715-resized-1024.jpg>
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Chris Sparadeo

 

 

C_802-369-4458

H_802-728-3059

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Re: [RE-wrenches] MC4s are listed for THWN, right?

[Bryan Norkunas]

Trying this again since my first link didn’t work, here is the link to the MFG 
specs for NON PV , low DC applications:

 

https://ec.staubli.com/AcroFiles/Technical%20Info/PV_SOL-LVDC_(en).pdf

 

 

For safety reasons Stäubli prohibits the use of thermoplastic PVC insulation 
cables.

 

 

 

 

Bryan Norkunas

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Chris Sparadeo
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2021 8:30 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] MC4s are listed for THWN, right?

 

Also have to appreciate the 8 screws holding that 6x6”. 

 

On Fri, Apr 23, 2021 at 12:13 AM Jay  wrote:

Yes they are. 

Their rating is based on wire size, number of strands, material, insulation 
thickness. 

Insulation material isn’t specified. 

Jay 

Peltz power. 

> On Apr 22, 2021, at 7:35 PM, Jason Szumlanski 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I found this gem today while tracking down an AFCI fault. This was one of 
> three strings connected to a Sunny Boy 9000TL. I was surprised at how rare 
> and intermittent the AFCI fault was. The THWN pulled out effortlessly. 
> 
> I was surprised because usually I spend many hours tracking down AFCI 
> problems only to find out it's a bad inverter. 
> 
> Jason
> 
> 
> 
> <20210422_123715-resized-1024.jpg>
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Chris Sparadeo

 

 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] MC4s are listed for THWN, right?

[Bryan Norkunas]

 

Here are the specs for MC4’s being used with wire other than PV wire:

 

PV_SOL-LVDC_(en).pdf 

 

 

 

Bryan Norkunas

br...@pv-cables.com

PV-Cables Inc. 

989 Milton Ave Ste 1D

Ferndale CA 95536

(707) 923-3000 office

www.pv-cables.com <http://www.pv-cables.com/> 

 

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Chris Sparadeo
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2021 8:30 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] MC4s are listed for THWN, right?

 

Also have to appreciate the 8 screws holding that 6x6”. 

 

On Fri, Apr 23, 2021 at 12:13 AM Jay  wrote:

Yes they are. 

Their rating is based on wire size, number of strands, material, insulation 
thickness. 

Insulation material isn’t specified. 

Jay 

Peltz power. 

> On Apr 22, 2021, at 7:35 PM, Jason Szumlanski 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I found this gem today while tracking down an AFCI fault. This was one of 
> three strings connected to a Sunny Boy 9000TL. I was surprised at how rare 
> and intermittent the AFCI fault was. The THWN pulled out effortlessly. 
> 
> I was surprised because usually I spend many hours tracking down AFCI 
> problems only to find out it's a bad inverter. 
> 
> Jason
> 
> 
> 
> <20210422_123715-resized-1024.jpg>
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-- 

Chris Sparadeo

 

 

C_802-369-4458

H_802-728-3059

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Re: [RE-wrenches] AEE Solar

[Bryan Norkunas]

They closed their offices in Sacramento after Covid,  I was told and everyone 
is working from home these days.

Not sure about their phone tree.

 

 

Bryan Norkunas

 <mailto:br...@pv-cables.com> br...@pv-cables.com

 

Description: Description: PV-Cables_Logo_Transparent_Bkgnd_140x140

PV-Cables Inc. 

989 Milton Ave Ste 1D

Ferndale CA 95536

(707) 923-3000 office

 <http://www.pv-cables.com/> www.pv-cables.com

 

 Description: Description: cid:image002.jpg@01CD22E8.974B6470 Please print only 
if necessary.

 

NOTE: This email message and any attachments are for the sole use of the 
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information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is 
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replying to this email, and destroy all copies of the original message.

 

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Howie Michaelson
Sent: Friday, November 6, 2020 9:46 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] AEE Solar

 

Does anyone know what's going on with AEE Solar?  I've been trying to get in 
touch with anyone there and all the numbers I have used in the past as well as 
their published numbers get routed to Sunrun and they don't know anything.

Thanks,

Howie


Howie Michaelson
Sun Catcher
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™
Image removed by sender.
Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service
802-272-0004

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sound Equipment Inverter

[Bryan Norkunas]

No one knew what a MXR Phase 90 pedal was until Eddie starting using one, now 
everyone uses one  :) 
- RIP

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 4:10 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Sound Equipment Inverter

The work I did on this back in the day, when I was into this kind of thing
was setting AC voltage for the amps. Marshall and other really nice
sounding guitar amps need a specific AC voltage to sound great and get good
tube life. I can't remember the voltages exactly but they are out there to
find in a search. Bands that are touring, bias the tubes at say 117vac and
then run them on stage from an adjustable supply. I used the Xantrex config
tool to set XW's for the exact output Vac under typical loading. This was
to replace an existing Japanese company that built stage power supplies.
They had got very expensive and were hard to find and get support. I never
noticed any big noise difference from the grid vs XW supply but the sound
quality was noticeable to me when the voltage was right. That was a fun job
but really bad hours!

Still not getting over losing Eddie Van Halen. He was a master at great
sound and nothing between the guitar and his amps but a cable or RF
transmitter. He also made his own guitars and amps, even when he could
afford to hire it. He used all 10 fingers in his neck tapping techniques.


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On Thu, 22 Oct 2020 16:42:03 -0600, Ray  wrote:
> Hi All;
> 
> I've just had an inquiry on building a portable sound stage and 
> recording setup.  Traditionally we've always used Exeltech, as they've 
> had the cleanest output, with background buzz on tube amps being lower 
> than grid power.  Modsine were horrible, Old Trace SWs were pretty 
> intolerable, Magnum's were usable, but still noticeably more buzz than 
> grid.  I think THD is roughly associated with the background buzz, but 
> there might be certain harmonics that are particularly problematic.  I 
> haven't gotten into looking at the separate harmonics relative to what 
> induces the most noise in these old vacuum tube circuits.
> 
> This is a 48 v application that also needs a built in charger with 
> transfer switching.  Exeltech does not appear to have anything in that 
> department.  Any other choices?  How are Samlex?
> 
> As always, thanks in advance for your time and expertise,
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sound Equipment Inverter

[Bryan Norkunas]

I have built one small music studio with a Samlex pst-1500-24V and it turned 
out wonderful -  though this was not the inverter w/the built in charger.  

For the next studio build, it will be my personal studio and I am considering 
the SAMLEX, EVO-1212F-HW.   This build will be finished late next month and I 
will let you know how it works out.

Bryan Norkunas
PV-Cables Inc. 
989 Milton Ave Ste 1D
Ferndale CA 95536
(707) 923-3000 office
www.pv-cables.com

  


-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Ray
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 3:42 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sound Equipment Inverter

Hi All;

I've just had an inquiry on building a portable sound stage and 
recording setup.  Traditionally we've always used Exeltech, as they've 
had the cleanest output, with background buzz on tube amps being lower 
than grid power.  Modsine were horrible, Old Trace SWs were pretty 
intolerable, Magnum's were usable, but still noticeably more buzz than 
grid.  I think THD is roughly associated with the background buzz, but 
there might be certain harmonics that are particularly problematic.  I 
haven't gotten into looking at the separate harmonics relative to what 
induces the most noise in these old vacuum tube circuits.

This is a 48 v application that also needs a built in charger with 
transfer switching.  Exeltech does not appear to have anything in that 
department.  Any other choices?  How are Samlex?

As always, thanks in advance for your time and expertise,

-- 
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Raw Q Cable

[Bryan Norkunas]

TC-ER is the way to go, easily found in stock all over the country and much 
less in cost than the Q-Cable

 

 

Bryan Norkunas

PV-Cables Inc. 

989 Milton Ave Ste 1D

Ferndale CA 95536

(707) 923-3000 office

www.pv-cables.com <http://www.pv-cables.com/> 

 

 

 

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Jason Szumlanski
Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 2:50 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Raw Q Cable

 

I was thinking TC-ER. I would need a quick, easy, low cost way to transition 
from the Q Cable to the TC-ER. I'm pretty sure the Enphase field wireable 
connectors are not compatible with TC-ER, but I could be wrong. 

 

 

On Wed, Oct 7, 2020, 6:37 PM Bryan Norkunas  wrote:

12/2 flat tray cable?

 

Bryan Norkunas

PV-Cables Inc. 

989 Milton Ave Ste 1D

Ferndale CA 95536

(707) 923-3000 office

www.pv-cables.com <http://www.pv-cables.com/> 

 

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of William Miller
Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2020 9:42 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Raw Q Cable

 

Put your junction boxes closer to the microinverters?

 

Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/> 

CA Lic. 773985

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Jason Szumlanski
Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2020 9:08 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Raw Q Cable

 

Has anybody come up with a good wiring alternative to Raw Q Cable when making 
long runs along rails from a string to a junction box? 

 

We are running into supply problems through distribution. I'm looking for 
something that might be more readily available.

 

Jason Szumlanski

Florida Solar Design Group

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Raw Q Cable

[Bryan Norkunas]

12/2 flat tray cable?

 

Bryan Norkunas

PV-Cables Inc. 

989 Milton Ave Ste 1D

Ferndale CA 95536

(707) 923-3000 office

www.pv-cables.com <http://www.pv-cables.com/> 

 

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of William Miller
Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2020 9:42 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Raw Q Cable

 

Put your junction boxes closer to the microinverters?

 

Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/> 

CA Lic. 773985

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Jason Szumlanski
Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2020 9:08 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Raw Q Cable

 

Has anybody come up with a good wiring alternative to Raw Q Cable when making 
long runs along rails from a string to a junction box? 

 

We are running into supply problems through distribution. I'm looking for 
something that might be more readily available.

 

Jason Szumlanski

Florida Solar Design Group

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Microgrid... Outback or SMA or other?

[Bryan Norkunas]

Sol Ark related:

 

– we often get requests for their batteries and there seems to be a shortage at 
the moment and stock will not be available until mid to late Nov.

 

Below a response we received this morning from Sol Ark:

 

Due to the shortage we are trying to make sure batteries are being used with 
Sol-Ark systems. 

This is the only reason we carry them. Not really a supply house for batteries.

We also only recommend our batteries for back-up mostly and not really for Time 
of Use.  

Also, battery pack should be over-sized if they are going to use it for Time of 
Use. 

 

 

Bryan Norkunas

br...@pv-cables.com

 

Description: Description: PV-Cables_Logo_Transparent_Bkgnd_140x140

PV-Cables Inc. 

989 Milton Ave Ste 1D

Ferndale CA 95536

(707) 923-3000 office

www.pv-cables.com <http://www.pv-cables.com/> 

 

 Description: Description: cid:image002.jpg@01CD22E8.974B6470 Please print only 
if necessary.

 

NOTE: This email message and any attachments are for the sole use of the 
intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged 
information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is 
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by 
replying to this email, and destroy all copies of the original message.

 

 

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Jason Szumlanski
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2020 1:33 PM
To: Jeff Clearwater
Cc: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Microgrid... Outback or SMA or other?

 

Related question, Jeff... With the Sol-Ark, I an off-grid situation can you set 
it up to always use inveters to power loads. In other words, when the generator 
kicks in, only use the generator to charge batteries and do not bypass inveters 
to power loads directly from the generator. 

 

This is a request I get occasionally. People don't want to rely on the "dirty" 
generator power with sensitive electronics.

 

Jason

 

 

On Thu, Sep 10, 2020, 1:19 PM Jeff Clearwater  wrote:

I'm loving my first install of Sol Arks - One downside of Sol-Ark (and I can't 
find many!) is that the GEN terminal can only handle 1 of the following 3:  
Generator, AC Coupling, or Smart Load.  So if you want both a generator and AC 
coupling you have to either do a separate transfer switch for the GEN and not 
run it through the inverters - or you have to go with their internal DC MPPTif 
you do want the GEN to charge the batteries (unless you are off-grid totally 
and have no Grid in which case you might be able to run the Generator into 
Grid?  not sure about that - don't quote me!).

Anyone else with any downsides?

Best,

Jeff



Jason Szumlanski wrote on 9/10/20 4:44 AM:



There is a huge distinction in a hybrid inverter that integrates MPPT charge 
control. Eliminating all of the extraneous hardware and circuit protection 
associated with charge controllers is very appealing. The 500V input limit is 
also a game-changer in terms of wire size. I'm very interested in this approach.

 

On the flip size, an AC Coupled approach is also appealing in a lot of 
circumstances. Since Sol-Ark supports that, too, it's hard to find downsides 
other than their infancy in the industry.

 

And for what it's worth, my experience with SMA tech support recently has been 
abysmal. Long hold times and getting bounced around departments.

 

Jason Szumlanski



 

 

 

On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 9:50 PM Mark Frye  wrote:

The most important thing here is that no one is standing up to sing the praises 
of either SMA or Outback.

I myself have sent about 2 hours on hold over 2 days trying to get an issue 
addressed by SMA.

Re: Sol-Arc I would pay a lot extra or take some not so good aspect in exchange 
for good technical support.

On 9/9/2020 1:12 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:

Any tips on combining AC output from these units when stacking several of them? 
What bus/OCPD system are you using? Same question for generator/grid input. 

 

The solar MPPT inputs appear to be dead simple.

 

Jason Szumlanski

 







 

 

 

On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 10:45 PM MiJo Nels  wrote:

we've found SolArk to be SOLID!! .. And yes 8 inv yield about 96kW, with a TON 
of surge capabilities.. 

Joe Nelson

Project Manager C-46/C-10

Sustainable Energy Group Inc., A California Corporation

CSL# 868816

www.SustainableEnergyGroup.com 
<https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/8f0e320b52948f22a9ae9682bd3b5e9dc8d6c68f?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.SustainableEnergyGroup.com&userId=1613865&signature=e7d246f94af9a065>
 

530-273-4422 (Office)

530-217-8385 (Cell)



   

 

  _  

From: RE-wrenches  on behalf of 
pgir...@mindspring.com 
Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2020 1:24:03 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches' 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Microgrid... Outback or SMA or other? 

 

I also suggest the Sol-Ark 12’s. Ext

Re: [RE-wrenches] Getting Enphase IQ Cable into J Boxes

[Bryan Norkunas]

M3231GCZ-SM is the part number for the ½” version,  

Though the ½” version only accepting a single 12/2 tray cable with bare ground.

 

We see a bigger demand for the ½ vs the ¾” 

 

 

Bryan Norkunas

 <mailto:br...@pv-cables.com> br...@pv-cables.com

 

Description: Description: PV-Cables_Logo_Transparent_Bkgnd_140x140

PV-Cables Inc. 

989 Milton Ave Ste 1D

Ferndale CA 95536

(707) 923-3000 office

 <http://www.pv-cables.com/> www.pv-cables.com

 

 Description: Description: cid:image002.jpg@01CD22E8.974B6470 Please print only 
if necessary.

 

NOTE: This email message and any attachments are for the sole use of the 
intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged 
information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is 
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by 
replying to this email, and destroy all copies of the original message.

 

 

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Jason Szumlanski
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020 12:16 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Getting Enphase IQ Cable into J Boxes

 

Just a quick tip for those of you installing Enphase. I recently discovered 
there is a Heyco connector for TWO Enphase IQ cables and a bare ground in a 
single 3/4" knockout. This has saved us a bunch of time. The rubber gland is 
prepunched, but you can also use it for a single IQ cable since it is not 
punched all the way through.

 

Part number is M3234GDA-SM, available through Mouser, Rexel, anyone who sells 
Heyco I would imagine. 

 

image.png

 

 

Jason Szumlanski

Florida Solar Design Group

 

Image removed by sender.

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Admin posting: Sol-Ark on list

[Bryan Norkunas]

Always been curious, why limit to only one rep per OEM?



Bryan Norkunas
br...@pv-cables.com


PV-Cables Inc. 
989 Milton Ave Ste 1D
Ferndale CA 95536
(707) 923-3000 office
www.pv-cables.com



-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of Michael Welch
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2020 6:57 PM
To: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Admin posting: Sol-Ark on list

Hi gang. If you have any questions or comments, please send them to me
off-list.

I've had several of you suggest to me off-list that Sol-Ark should have a
manufacturer's representative on the list. I agree.

On 8/28, one of their employees requested to be added. I responded with my
standard spiel but haven't heard back yet. Sometimes it takes awhile for
companies to decide who should be the rep, I just want to make sure they are
solid technically and not there to do promotion or marketing. 

I don't know if that person intends to follow through, though. I'm open to
suggestions about who to invite, but it's ultimately up to their tech dept.
to decide who they want. Whomever is OK with me as long as they fit our
criteria for manufacturers' reps, and their company is OK with that person. 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Microgrid... Outback or SMA or other?

[Bryan Norkunas]

Sol-Arks would be possible, you can link 8 inverters.

 

Bryan 

PV-Cables

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Chris Schaefer
Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2020 10:40 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Microgrid... Outback or SMA or other?

 

I'd suggest giving the crew at Sol-Ark a quick call @ 972-575-8875 with their 
12kw unit. Not sure what their max number of inverters are.

 

Christopher

 

On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 1:14 PM Kienan Maxfield  
wrote:

Hey all, I'm designing a microgrid sized off-grid system for somebody, and I'm 
just wondering if anyone knows of any issues with the following designs... 

 

The client says he needs 70 kW. His load data looks pretty solid, so I'm 
sticking to using that number as a minimum, at least during the initial 
proposal stage. I only know of two possible equipment options for this size 
range...

 

1.  I think I can use up to 10 Outback Radians, for up to an 80 kW system. 
Are there any bugs or problems with using this many inverters on one hub? I 
know I've read about issues with selling to the grid, but that's not an issue, 
this is off-grid.
2.  I know that the SMA cluster box with sunny islands can allow for up to 
a 72 kW system. Do you know of any bugs or problems with this system?

 

 

Are there any other options that anyone would suggest? Schneider's website says 
they can only do up to 61 kW, and Victron can only do up to 60 kW.

 

 

I know that the Outback system would yield a 240/120 Split-Phase system and 
that the SMA would yield a 208/120 3Ø system, but this doesn't really matter 
either way for this job. 

 

Thanks so much,

Kienan

 

 

Maxfield Solar 

  maxfieldso...@hotmail.com

(801) 631-5584 (Cell)

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

[Bryan Norkunas]

Are the module pv connectors, the same brand as the pv connectors on the 
Enphase inverters?

 

Bryan Norkunas

br...@pv-cables.com

 

Description: Description: PV-Cables_Logo_Transparent_Bkgnd_140x140

PV-Cables Inc. 

989 Milton Ave Ste 1D

Ferndale CA 95536

(707) 923-3000 office

www.pv-cables.com <http://www.pv-cables.com/> 

 

 Description: Description: cid:image002.jpg@01CD22E8.974B6470 Please print only 
if necessary.

 

NOTE: This email message and any attachments are for the sole use of the 
intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged 
information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is 
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by 
replying to this email, and destroy all copies of the original message.

 

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Jason Szumlanski
Sent: Monday, June 1, 2020 7:24 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

 

Well, that didn't resolve it. The main breaker and a branch circuit breaker 
tripped again a few days ago. It was the same branch this time. 

 

As my next diagnostic step I swapped two circuits (on which breaker they are 
landed). If history is a guide, it will work for about two weeks and then trip 
again.

 

I'm dumbfounded. I really don't want to have to tear this whole system apart. 
At this point, if I have to remove all the modules, I feel that I need to 
replace all of the trunk cable which is an expensive proposition. I really 
don't know what else to do at this point.

 

Jason

 

 

On Mon, May 25, 2020, 10:43 AM Jason Szumlanski 
 wrote:

I strongly suspect the CH240 combined breaker was compromised (we will see). 
Since it happened that two different strings tripped, I doubt I have two 
microinverters with internal faults. It has to be the combined breaker. I was 
just surprised that branch circuit breakers were tripping simultaneously with 
the combined output breaker.

 

Of all the supply side connected systems I have installed, I have never seen a 
combined output fusible disconnect fuse blow, but I have seen many combined 
output breakers tripped. I was worried early on that I would be replacing fuses 
constantly, but that has not been an issue whatsoever.

 

 




 

 

 

On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:15 AM  wrote:

Actually, we had a IQ7 string loaded up to its max panel size and max string 
length and in the spring on cool, clear day, it tripped the string’s associated 
breaker in the Enphase combiner.

 

We reset but of course that breaker was impaired and it tripped again. We 
replaced and never had an issue going forward. We suspect the breaker was less 
than perfect from the start as we’ve add equally nice days since.

 

This almost reminds me of loading up Outback FM80. It says 4,000 watts but in 
reality, 3,600 is the max when amps spike. I will be extra careful going 
forward on IQ7 string length when going to the max published…

 

My story.

 

Scot

 

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
Jason Szumlanski
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 8:57 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng

 

I'm trying to resolve an intermittent frustrating problem with and Enphase IQ 
system. There are three AC Branch circuits of 9 microinverters each coming into 
an Enphase AC combiner. 

 

What has been happening is one of the BR220 branch circuit breakers and the 
combine CH240 breaker in the main backfed load center have been tripping 
simultaneously. It has happened about four times in the last 6 months. It was 
always the same branch circuit breaker, so we kept investigating that string, 
checking the junction box, trunk cable, and cap, etc. Finally we swapped out 
the BR220 breaker. 

 

Fast forward 4 weeks, and we got another call. This time a different branch 
circuit breaker and the main breaker tripped simultaneously. We checked that 
branch circuit and could not find any fault. It seems unlikely that two branch 
circuit breakers would be faulty, so we have now switched out the CH240 main 
breaker in hopes that it is the culprit.  

 

I'm not totally confident in this resolution and I have my fingers crossed. If 
that doesn't work, does anyone have any suggestions on another diagnostic step? 
These intermittent problems are a major hassle. One thought I had was to switch 
to a supply side interconnection with a fusible disconnect. Maybe the 
intermittent fault would blow one of the two line fuses so at least I could 
narrow it down to which line the fault is on if there is in fact a fault.

 

I have experienced two other tripping breaker issues with Enphase systems in 
the past. Neither of them were systems I installed. One turned out to be branch 
circuits that were not properly paired up and landed on different breakers. 
Another time we had an inverte

Re: [RE-wrenches] Contract permit packets

[Bryan Norkunas]

Jeff Spies recently started a business;

https://www.planetplansets.com/

 

Bryan Norkunas

br...@pv-cables.com

 

Description: Description: PV-Cables_Logo_Transparent_Bkgnd_140x140

PV-Cables Inc.

1155 Redway Drive

PO Box 2562

Redway, CA 95560

(707) 923-3000 office

www.pv-cables.com <http://www.pv-cables.com/> 

 

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of William Miller
Sent: Wednesday, February 5, 2020 9:42 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Contract permit packets

 

Friends:

 

I am barraged by offers for permit packet preparation services.  I used to 
enjoy the process-- but to do it right takes me about 8 hours, even with 
templates.  This has got me to considering hiring out for this.

 

Can anyone share their experience with any of these services, good, bad or in 
between?

 

Which service have you used?

 

What do you typically pay?  

 

Have you used them for grid-tie, off-grid or GTBB?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

William

 

 

Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/> 

CA Lic. 773985

 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] connector mismatch

[Bryan Norkunas]

Yes, I have seen and have copies of many of these 3rd party “compatibility” 
tests.

 

From: Brian Mehalic [mailto:br...@solarenergy.org] 
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2019 1:16 PM
To: Bryan Norkunas
Cc: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] connector mismatch

 

You say you've seen many of these tests in the past; do you specifically mean 
the intermatability test?

 

Thanks for the info! (And you also really helped me out identifying some 
connectors on a problem-job a couple months back...thanks again!).


 

Brian Mehalic 
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional™ R031508-59

National Electrical Code® CMP-4 Member

(520) 204-6639

 

Solar Energy International
http://www.solarenergy.org

 

SEI Professional Services

 <http://www.seisolarpros.com> http://www.seisolarpros.com

 

 

 

On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 1:07 PM Bryan Norkunas  wrote:

Also note the Intertek testing, I have seen many of these in the past – 

but never one of them tested with 12AWG or 10AWG connectors, it has always been 
14AWG for some reason.

 

And as a company that specializes in this niche, I can say in the last 10 years 
we have never had the request to manufacture anything smaller than 12AWG when 
it came to PV Connectors.

 

Bryan Norkunas

br...@pv-cables.com

 

Description: Description: PV-Cables_Logo_Transparent_Bkgnd_140x140

PV-Cables Inc.

1155 Redway Drive

PO Box 2562

Redway, CA 95560

(707) 923-3000 office

www.pv-cables.com <http://www.pv-cables.com/> 

 

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Bryan Norkunas
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2019 12:57 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] connector mDescription: Description: 
cid:image002.jpg@01CD22E8.974B6470ismatch

 

Ray,

 

Solarworld went from using MC4 connectors, then to Kostal KSK4 connectors, then 
Amphenol H4, and finally Amphenol UTX connectors.

 

The cross mating with the KSK4 connectors had the most issues and we assembled 
a lot of adapters for end users and installers.  

 

Back in 2016, we were talking with Solarworld about the Amphenol UTX/H4 to MC4 
connections failing.  (I attached the Compatibility letter that Solarworld was 
providing their customers, as well as the Amphenol Compatibility documents )  

 

Back then, I was mating connectors and grinding away the plastic housings to 
determine the terminal overlap of cross mated connectors.

Here are my notes from back then:

The overlap on an MC4 to MC4 connection = 0.305”

The overlap on an MC4 to UTX connection = 0.265”

A lot of the older H4 to MC4 issues were end users not fully seating MC4 female 
to the H4 male.  It takes some force to get them to fit completely and a 
nightmare to disconnect if needed.

These tended to fail in higher heat or higher humidity environments.  The 
picture below is one that wasn’t fully seated.

cid:image003.jpg@01D18A5E.48835320

 

 

Hanwa Q Cell have used many different connectors on their modules over the 
years.  

 

Jinko modules usually have Jinko connectors in my small amount of experience 
with them.  Jinko still does not offer a crimping tool for their connectors, 
that I know of and still only UL for 20A.  We do little work with these 
connectors, so my input here might be outdated.

 

Lastly, I have seen a few larger distributing customers of ours doing good work 
on obtaining the connector/module info from module manufactures, prior to 
placing their blanket orders.  In turn, the module mfg.’s are typically 
supplying them (or sometimes us) connectors for homerun cables, adapters, etc.  
  And finally the end customer is knowing what connectors on the modules they 
are purchasing, with the availability of getting the correct connectors/homerun 
cables needed to complete the install.

 

 

Bryan Norkunas

br...@pv-cables.com

 

Description: Description: PV-Cables_Logo_Transparent_Bkgnd_140x140

PV-Cables Inc.

1155 Redway Drive

PO Box 2562

Redway, CA 95560

(707) 923-3000 office

www.pv-cables.com <http://www.pv-cables.com/> 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Ray
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2019 12:08 PM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] connector mismatch

 

I did some research on the modules we've used over the past 15+ years to see if 
we had potential mismatched connector issues. We've used Amphenol H4 connects 
since the advent of locking solar connectors.  We had assumed they were 
compatible back then.

Solarworld switched from MC4 to H4 somewhere back 2013 to 2015. I didn't even 
notice. SW 280s through SW 300 looks like H4, while SW 270s and back to the 
long, skinny SW 165s are MC 4, but its not that clear, as I found a spec sheet 
for an SW 260 with an H4.  

Conclusion: Basically we can't be sure.

Hanwa Q cell, looks like their 60 cell mods run the MC 4 or MC 4 compatible 
(whatever th

Re: [RE-wrenches] connector mismatch

[Bryan Norkunas]

Also note the Intertek testing, I have seen many of these in the past – 

but never one of them tested with 12AWG or 10AWG connectors, it has always been 
14AWG for some reason.

 

And as a company that specializes in this niche, I can say in the last 10 years 
we have never had the request to manufacture anything smaller than 12AWG when 
it came to PV Connectors.

 

Bryan Norkunas

br...@pv-cables.com

 

Description: Description: PV-Cables_Logo_Transparent_Bkgnd_140x140

PV-Cables Inc.

1155 Redway Drive

PO Box 2562

Redway, CA 95560

(707) 923-3000 office

www.pv-cables.com <http://www.pv-cables.com/> 

 

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Bryan Norkunas
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2019 12:57 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] connector mDescription: Description: 
cid:image002.jpg@01CD22E8.974B6470ismatch

 

Ray,

 

Solarworld went from using MC4 connectors, then to Kostal KSK4 connectors, then 
Amphenol H4, and finally Amphenol UTX connectors.

 

The cross mating with the KSK4 connectors had the most issues and we assembled 
a lot of adapters for end users and installers.  

 

Back in 2016, we were talking with Solarworld about the Amphenol UTX/H4 to MC4 
connections failing.  (I attached the Compatibility letter that Solarworld was 
providing their customers, as well as the Amphenol Compatibility documents )  

 

Back then, I was mating connectors and grinding away the plastic housings to 
determine the terminal overlap of cross mated connectors.

Here are my notes from back then:

The overlap on an MC4 to MC4 connection = 0.305”

The overlap on an MC4 to UTX connection = 0.265”

A lot of the older H4 to MC4 issues were end users not fully seating MC4 female 
to the H4 male.  It takes some force to get them to fit completely and a 
nightmare to disconnect if needed.

These tended to fail in higher heat or higher humidity environments.  The 
picture below is one that wasn’t fully seated.

cid:image003.jpg@01D18A5E.48835320

 

 

Hanwa Q Cell have used many different connectors on their modules over the 
years.  

 

Jinko modules usually have Jinko connectors in my small amount of experience 
with them.  Jinko still does not offer a crimping tool for their connectors, 
that I know of and still only UL for 20A.  We do little work with these 
connectors, so my input here might be outdated.

 

Lastly, I have seen a few larger distributing customers of ours doing good work 
on obtaining the connector/module info from module manufactures, prior to 
placing their blanket orders.  In turn, the module mfg.’s are typically 
supplying them (or sometimes us) connectors for homerun cables, adapters, etc.  
  And finally the end customer is knowing what connectors on the modules they 
are purchasing, with the availability of getting the correct connectors/homerun 
cables needed to complete the install.

 

 

Bryan Norkunas

br...@pv-cables.com

 

Description: Description: PV-Cables_Logo_Transparent_Bkgnd_140x140

PV-Cables Inc.

1155 Redway Drive

PO Box 2562

Redway, CA 95560

(707) 923-3000 office

www.pv-cables.com <http://www.pv-cables.com/> 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Ray
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2019 12:08 PM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] connector mismatch

 

I did some research on the modules we've used over the past 15+ years to see if 
we had potential mismatched connector issues. We've used Amphenol H4 connects 
since the advent of locking solar connectors.  We had assumed they were 
compatible back then.

Solarworld switched from MC4 to H4 somewhere back 2013 to 2015. I didn't even 
notice. SW 280s through SW 300 looks like H4, while SW 270s and back to the 
long, skinny SW 165s are MC 4, but its not that clear, as I found a spec sheet 
for an SW 260 with an H4.  

Conclusion: Basically we can't be sure.

Hanwa Q cell, looks like their 60 cell mods run the MC 4 or MC 4 compatible 
(whatever that means) while their 72 cell mods apparently use the H4/ UTX  

Conclusion: Total confusion in the field.

Jinko?  They don't even list the connector type on any of the spec sheets I 
have for the past few years.

Conclusion: No way for a designer/ installer to know beforehand what connector 
to use in the field.

Basically this is a total break down of responsibility for the solar industry; 
a complete lack of standards. Why hasn't an organization like NEMA stepped in 
to standardize the connectors like all AC connectors have been, going back for 
over a century?  

I made a very wrong assumption that when our industry adopted the MC 4/ H4 
locking type connectors that they were standardized and compatible.   I can 
only hope that my systems running at relatively low voltage (<150 vdc) will not 
have issues.   

 

Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 

Re: [RE-wrenches] connector mismatch

[Bryan Norkunas]

August, 

 

We have had numerous customers successfully reach out and been given revised 
warranties from module manufactures, when connectors which were on the module 
leads could not be procured.

 

Cheers, 

 

Bryan Norkunas

br...@pv-cables.com

 

Description: Description: PV-Cables_Logo_Transparent_Bkgnd_140x140

PV-Cables Inc.

1155 Redway Drive

PO Box 2562

Redway, CA 95560

(707) 923-3000 office

www.pv-cables.com <http://www.pv-cables.com/> 

 

 Description: Description: cid:image002.jpg@01CD22E8.974B6470 Please print only 
if necessary.

 

NOTE: This email message and any attachments are for the sole use of the 
intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged 
information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is 
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by 
replying to this email, and destroy all copies of the original message.

 

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of August Goers
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2019 6:34 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] connector mismatch

 

Jason - I'm curious about your statement on cutting off module connectors. Can 
you elaborate?

 

Best,

 

August

Luminalt

 

On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 7:52 AM Jason Fisher (STC)  wrote:

Kent, I don’t see an answer to Brian’s question about the LG module’s original 
connector configuration. We’re these modules actually factory shipped with one 
H4 and one MC4 connector on different polarities? That would be bizarre. 

 

Otherwise to back up Brian’s point about Intermatability, this is a UL 6703 
term that was added in NEC2020 to specifically address this question, how can 
installers have confidence when they are asked to connect two different 
manufacturer’s mating connectors. Bottom line is don’t connect “mismatched” 
connectors, ever. Only connect different manufacturers, and/or different models 
of mating connectors if at least one of the companies produces proof of 
evaluation of that combination by an NRTL. Warning that this is rare at this 
point (those wouldn’t therefore be “mismatched”). 

 

This is a very important issue so my advice to Wrenches is to keep firm and 
don’t budge on this one. 

 

Also curious if you all still think you can’t cut off module connectors? We 
need to correct that if so. 

 

Jason Fisher

  _  

From: RE-wrenches  on behalf of 
Jerry Shafer 
Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2019 11:25 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] connector mismatch 

 

Brian 

Missing the point, yes they are compatible but as we have seen in the real 
world there are issues. This can give module and micro inverter manufacturers 
an out regarding failures and responsibility 

Jerry

 

On Thu, Sep 5, 2019, 1:41 AM Brian Mehalic  wrote:

I don’t think “some white paper” is sufficient based on Code requirements, UL 
standards (6703), and verified field failures. Also see 2020 NEC® 690.33(C) - 
now requiring intermatability. 

Brian


On Sep 4, 2019, at 2:06 PM, Jerry Shafer  wrote:

Wrenches 

Per some white papers connectors are interchangeable, this being said l have 
had arc issues as a result. FYI there are knock-offs out there to.

Jerry

 

On Wed, Sep 4, 2019, 1:42 PM Brian Mehalic  wrote:

Are you saying each module has, for example, a positive factory H4 lead and a 
negative factory MC4 lead? 

 

I definitely know of H4 problems, both mated with H4s and mismatched.  


 

Brian Mehalic 
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional™ R031508-59

National Electrical Code® CMP-4 Member

(520) 204-6639

 

Solar Energy International
http://www.solarenergy.org

 

SEI Professional Services

 <http://www.seisolarpros.com> http://www.seisolarpros.com

 

 

 

On Wed, Sep 4, 2019 at 1:22 PM Kent Osterberg  wrote:

I've recently been looking for the cause of random power drop offs to 
zero in an Enphase M215 system with LG260 PV module that was installed 
in 2013. Just one inverter in a system of fourteen has been doing this. 
Enphase suggested moving the inverter to a different PV module and sure 
enough doing that proved the problem wasn't with the inverter.  
Intermittent zero output was being caused by the PV module.  In making 
the inverter/module change I found that all the LG 260 modules in this 
system have one MC4 connector and one H4 connector. At present I'm 
convinced the mismatched connector is the actual cause of the problem. 
Anyone else ever notice find PV modules with mixed MC4 and H4 connectors?

Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar
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