Re: [RE-wrenches] Powerwall 3

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

I hear 3 still can't use a generator from youtube. Pretty cool other 
than that.


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-09-10 4:37 pm, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:


Certified Powerwall installers,

Can the PW3 be commissioned for for a completely off-grid system with 
DC coupled solar panels with no MCIs. If so, do you need a Gateway 2/3, 
or can it operate autonomously in this scenario without a Gateway?


Jason Szumlanski
Florida Solar Design Group
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Shutdown?

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Just curious what high SoC is?  I set mine for 95% or so and do not 
worry about the last few %.


Have not seen this problem but do not use fortress. Should not have shut 
downs offgrid except LBCO or lightning.


I really think that an SPD should be on the battery as well as AC in and 
out these days,

especially with a 48V BMS.  Tempting the demons!

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
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text 209 813 0060

On 2024-08-27 4:19 pm, Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches wrote:


Ray

I think you are on to something.

I have multiple eVault MAX batteries on a Radian and I have had 
mysterious random shutdowns with high SOC before.


Could be they were off grid at the time or had a big load shut off 
causing a voltage bounce.


The batteries are comm'd together but not to the Radian, of course.

If that is the case, I wonder if there is a newer battery firmware that 
can over come this or in fact why a LiFePO4 can't go over 55.2 when 
most have a 58.4V limit.


Thank you,

Maverick

Maverick Brown
Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006
Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc.
* Solar Commander Remote Power
* SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection
maver...@mavericksolar.com
512-460-9825

On Aug 27, 2024, at 5:24 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Is it possible that a load shut off, and then the controllers over shot 
the voltage long enough to shut the BMS off?  If so, what's the 
solution? Lower absorb voltages?  I checked voltage calibration between 
the various pieces of equipment.


Ray

On 8/27/2024 4:14 PM, Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches wrote:

High voltage disconnect would do this, is the site monitored

Fun times

On Tue, Aug 27, 2024, 2:47 PM jay via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:

I have a buddy in tech support at Fortress.

I asked him and he said that elevated absorb volts above 55.2 could 
cause this situation.

And then the power cycle would reboot the BMS.

I am presuming its open loop, and the fact you mentioned that there was 
more PV and then the shut down sure might be connected.
You might check the charge voltages/time to make sure they are correct 
and I can't remember if the classic has battery sense wire connections.


jay

On Aug 27, 2024, at 2:51 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


The SPD was on one of the PV inputs before it came into the house.  
There were two Classics, each fed with its own PV input and SPD.  It 
actually caused an underground splice to fail (high resistance) which I 
replaced the splice and restored full voltage, and both Classics were 
working fine.  Just seems unlikely ( but not impossible) that the surge 
would make it past the Classic without damage, but then damage the 
Fortress BMS in an otherwise imperceptible manner.   That is our 
current best theory at the moment though.   I added an SPD on the 48 v 
buss, before this latest total shutdown.


Ray Walters

On 8/27/2024 2:35 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches 
wrote:
When I have had someone lose an SPD (I assume it was on DC buss) there 
is often latent damage (shows up later) to many of the devices.  In a 
Hi Rel mode, it is recommended to replace it all. Most offgrid is not 
that critical but try telling that to someone with rotten food.


The freezers and reefers are often full of spoils that smells never go 
away. YUK !


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
[1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-08-27 1:02 pm, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote:
Greetings All;

I have Fortress Battery installation with a pair of E Vault batteries 
set up in a Master/ Slave arrangement.  Its been working fine for over 
a year, but the customer just had a complete shutdown of the batteries 
which left multiple freezers, and refrigerator with rotting food.   
When he rebooted the batteries by turning on/off the main breaker on 
each, they both come up and showed 100% SOC on the Master, and 98% on 
the other.There were no fault codes.   I just recently installed a 
larger PV array, and so the system has been reaching full charge every 
morning.


I have multiple calls in to Fortress, but not hearing anything back 
from them at all.  We did have a lightning surge event a few months 
ago, that damaged a Midnite SPD (first ever for me), and took out the 
control board on the generator.  One VFX inverter has an LED out, but 
we only use two inverters of the Quad stack, so I just switched to 
another inverter.  All other equipment appeared fine: Midnite 
controllers, rest of the Outback VFX quad stack, and never any issues 
seen with the Fortress batteries.


The other odd thing, is since he rebooted the batteries, the system is 
working fine, and recharging to 100%  by 9:30 am as before.Is it 
possible the Fortress BMS were damaged and are now having an 
intermittent shutdown issue?  I did ask him to t

Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Shutdown?

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

When I have had someone lose an SPD (I assume it was on DC buss) there 
is often latent damage (shows up later) to many of the devices.  In a Hi 
Rel mode, it is recommended to replace it all. Most offgrid is not that 
critical but try telling that to someone with rotten food.


The freezers and reefers are often full of spoils that smells never go 
away. YUK !


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-08-27 1:02 pm, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote:


Greetings All;

I have Fortress Battery installation with a pair of E Vault batteries 
set up in a Master/ Slave arrangement.  Its been working fine for over 
a year, but the customer just had a complete shutdown of the batteries 
which left multiple freezers, and refrigerator with rotting food.   
When he rebooted the batteries by turning on/off the main breaker on 
each, they both come up and showed 100% SOC on the Master, and 98% on 
the other.There were no fault codes.   I just recently installed a 
larger PV array, and so the system has been reaching full charge every 
morning.


I have multiple calls in to Fortress, but not hearing anything back 
from them at all.  We did have a lightning surge event a few months 
ago, that damaged a Midnite SPD (first ever for me), and took out the 
control board on the generator.  One VFX inverter has an LED out, but 
we only use two inverters of the Quad stack, so I just switched to 
another inverter.  All other equipment appeared fine: Midnite 
controllers, rest of the Outback VFX quad stack, and never any issues 
seen with the Fortress batteries.


The other odd thing, is since he rebooted the batteries, the system is 
working fine, and recharging to 100%  by 9:30 am as before.Is it 
possible the Fortress BMS were damaged and are now having an 
intermittent shutdown issue?  I did ask him to temporarily disconnect 
the comms between batteries, in case it is a bad BMS on one, it will 
isolate it from the other.


This is a tough one to figure out, since it hasn't happened again, and 
there are no fault codes.  The Mate 3 shows a low frequency AC code, 
but that's usually just from the generator shutting down.Any help, 
ideas, experiences, would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks,

Ray Walters
Remote Solar

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[RE-wrenches] Print Pro Solar labels

[Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches]

Hi All,

Has anyone heard of Print Pro before?
https://printproaz.com/

I got a cold call from them (and surprisingly actually picked it up). They
are offering a $200 gift card, and their prices seem really cheap. It
smells slightly scammy to me, but maybe they are just trying to get
started. Their website does look legit. I am just curious if anyone has
used them before.

Thanks!
-Dave

-- 

[image: Logo] <https://www.sungineersolar.com/>
Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
Owner | Sungineer Solar
p: he | him | his
a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
w: www.sungineersolar.com <http://www.sungineersolar.com/>
c: (607) 270-0370
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Re: [RE-wrenches] discover lithium warranty issues.

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Fair enough! Without knowing all the facts I would also say not that 
hard to download the battery data to a thumb drive and ask why the 
battery failed? Sometimes making the effort will help get a better price 
break. I have had them be very fair with me on my clients dumb mistakes.


Have a good evening!

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-08-19 2:47 pm, Luke Christy via RE-wrenches wrote:


Dave- following up on this-

Point taken-  but I still reserve the right to be annoyed when a 
high-priced, properly-set-up, top tier product with a 10-year warranty 
fails in under three years and the case ends up in a warranty exception 
loophole with no joy.

I'll get over it though.

Luke Christy
719-588-3044

On Aug 15, 2024, at 12:08 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via 
RE-wrenches  wrote:


Being from Manufacturing I just disagree that warranty should pass on 
to a different owner. (Unless in writing)

Too much chance for failure with a new owner.

We do want these folks to stay in business right?  Batteries are hard 
enough in residential when doing everything correct.


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
[1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-08-15 10:57 am, Luke Christy via RE-wrenches wrote:
I also have had a poor experience with Discover's warranty.
I installed 3x 7.4kWh AES batteries for an off-grid customer in 2020. I 
registered  the warranty for all three within a few weeks of 
installation. Fast forward to 2023, the original customer sold the 
property and the new owner asked me out to troubleshoot a storage 
issue. One battery had failed to due a faulty BMS. Discover refused to 
honor the warranty because the property had changed hands (they tie the 
warranty to the original registered owner), and the new owner was stuck 
buying a new battery.


Discover did offer the replacement at a slightly discounted price but I 
thought it was lousy to find out that a 10-year warranty product 
suddenly has no warranty if the property is ever sold. It really turned 
me off, and I was left with the  feeling that I might have had better 
luck getting a warranty replacement if I had never registered the 
batteries at all.


Luke Christy
Renewable energy consultant

NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional(tm):

Solar Gain Services, LLC
PO Box 531
Monte Vista, CO 81144
sgsrenewables@gmail

On Aug 15, 2024, at 9:49 AM, jay via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Hi All,

I have an installer  buddy where i used to live who's having to try and 
get a discover lithium warrantied.


Its 3 yrs old, 2 years installed.

The dealer is closed, and the customer doesn't have the POP.

Discover is being very difficult.

The battery appears to have a dead cell block which makes trying to get 
info out of the battery all but impossible as it won't stay on long 
enough to download the info.


Does anyone have a contact who could help my  installer/friend  with 
this issue?


thanks

Jay
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Re: [RE-wrenches] OB Radian / FM60 grid tie mystery

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

You are all the Outaback wrenches but with Schneider before you reset 
the defaults, you should just do a complete DC power down.  Just in case 
it is a stuck bit in config.


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [2]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [3]  [2]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-08-18 4:20 pm, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote:

One other thing that has worked for weird issues is a full factory 
reset of everything.


Jay

On Aug 18, 2024, at 4:18 PM, Maverick Brown 
 wrote:


On OpticsRE go to devices, Mate3S, Global Charge. Disable everything 
there and for good measure also set the Maximum Battery Charge to 
generously large number.


Also, if you recently upgraded to Inverter software 1.6.63 or later, 
you have to do some procedure to edit the maximum sell current




upgrading_1_6_63_app_note [1]
PDF Document · 200 KB [1]

Thank you,

Maverick

Maverick Brown
Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006
Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc.
* Solar Commander Remote Power
* SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection
maver...@mavericksolar.com
512-460-9825

On Aug 18, 2024, at 3:59 PM, Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Looks like its only programmable directly on the Mate3s, not in optics 
RE. Or maybe I haven;t found it yet.


On Sun, Aug 18, 2024 at 3:22 PM Jay  wrote:

There is a setting called

FLEXnet dc advanced control.

Default is Y

I always set it to N

Pg 128 in my manual.

Jay

On Aug 18, 2024, at 11:11 AM, Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Hello All,
.
I have a Radian 8048 system in service for over 10 years now. It sold 
back quite normally until the last several months -3.- FM60 CC's are 
set to grid tie mode and  viewable and programmed from the Mate3s / 
OpticsRE. This issue loosely correlates to replacing one of the CCs 
several months ago.


Trouble is all -3- charge controllers are almost always in a float 
mode. The radian does sell, but at a small KW compared to what it used 
to before the frequent float mode started popping up. If I remember 
correctly, ideally the CCs should always be in bulk charge when 
sellback occurs.


I have the CC and inverter charger float set to about 1 vdc higher then 
the inverter's sell volts, as I believe was recommended way back when. 
Hard to understand what changed, but something did. I've checked the 
relevant setpoints many times and can't find anything obviously amiss.


Does a sell mode tech note paper exist still for the Radian system? Did 
it ever? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.


--

Kirk Herander / kirkh@vermont.solar

Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC

_Celebrating our 33st Anniversary 1991-2024!!_

dba Vermont Solar Engineering

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Kirk Herander / kirkh@vermont.solar

Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC

_Celebrating our 33st Anniversary 1991-2024!!_

dba Vermont Solar Engineering

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Portable systems

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Some of these even have the 240 receptacle to plug into a 30A home dryer 
receptacle for hurricane connection. Get the HV solar mppt built-in 
option and a some panels and you are set for the 30% tax credit. Might 
not need a wrench someday 😉


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-08-17 8:16 am, Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches wrote:

A while ago I researched a half dozen systems from as many 
manufacturers and chose Bluetti as the best bang for the buck.
I own and operate many of them, and have a few cabin owners using them 
instead of gasoline generators, happily.


Anker is a relatively new entrant to the market of these devices, 
however has a long reputation in portable powerbanks and is my favorite 
manufacturer of those products. I think they would also be a good 
contender for this purpose.


This market is growing fast and has many new players, so is hard to 
keep up with.


-Glenn
Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.

-- Original message--
From: Hilton Dier, III via RE-wrenches
Date: Fri, Aug 16, 2024 5:56 PM
To: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org;
Cc: Hilton Dier, III;
Subject:[RE-wrenches] Portable systems

I've got someone asking me about a portable system. It really doesn't 
have to be that portable. They just need a couple of kWh to back up 
their pellet stove for a day. There are loads of 
battery-and-inverter-in-a-box systems out there, but I have no idea 
about the quality of components. Does anybody have experience with any 
of these systems and have any recommendations?


Many thanks,

Hilton Dier

Missisquoi River Hydro LLC
Renewable Energy Design
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Re: [RE-wrenches] discover lithium warranty issues.

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Being from Manufacturing I just disagree that warranty should pass on to 
a different owner. (Unless in writing)

Too much chance for failure with a new owner.

We do want these folks to stay in business right?  Batteries are hard 
enough in residential when doing everything correct.


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-08-15 10:57 am, Luke Christy via RE-wrenches wrote:


I also have had a poor experience with Discover's warranty.
I installed 3x 7.4kWh AES batteries for an off-grid customer in 2020. I 
registered  the warranty for all three within a few weeks of 
installation. Fast forward to 2023, the original customer sold the 
property and the new owner asked me out to troubleshoot a storage 
issue. One battery had failed to due a faulty BMS. Discover refused to 
honor the warranty because the property had changed hands (they tie the 
warranty to the original registered owner), and the new owner was stuck 
buying a new battery.


Discover did offer the replacement at a slightly discounted price but I 
thought it was lousy to find out that a 10-year warranty product 
suddenly has no warranty if the property is ever sold. It really turned 
me off, and I was left with the  feeling that I might have had better 
luck getting a warranty replacement if I had never registered the 
batteries at all.


Luke Christy
Renewable energy consultant

NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional(tm):

Solar Gain Services, LLC
PO Box 531
Monte Vista, CO 81144
sgsrenewables@gmail

On Aug 15, 2024, at 9:49 AM, jay via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Hi All,

I have an installer  buddy where i used to live who's having to try 
and get a discover lithium warrantied.


Its 3 yrs old, 2 years installed.

The dealer is closed, and the customer doesn't have the POP.

Discover is being very difficult.

The battery appears to have a dead cell block which makes trying to 
get info out of the battery all but impossible as it won't stay on 
long enough to download the info.


Does anyone have a contact who could help my  installer/friend  with 
this issue?


thanks

Jay
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Re: [RE-wrenches] discover lithium warranty issues.

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

What is a POP Jay?  I assume the customer did not fill out the warranty 
info when new? Big mistake on something with a 10 year warranty. With 
all of the used junk on ebay/Amazon why would you not be difficult?


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-08-15 8:49 am, jay via RE-wrenches wrote:


Hi All,

I have an installer  buddy where i used to live who's having to try and 
get a discover lithium warrantied.


Its 3 yrs old, 2 years installed.

The dealer is closed, and the customer doesn't have the POP.

Discover is being very difficult.

The battery appears to have a dead cell block which makes trying to get 
info out of the battery all but impossible as it won't stay on long 
enough to download the info.


Does anyone have a contact who could help my  installer/friend  with 
this issue?


thanks

Jay
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[RE-wrenches] small battery on 208V three phase

[Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches]

Hi All,

I am working on sorting out equipment for a roughly 70kw 208V three phase
system, where they also want a very small battery backup for some 120V
loads. It seems like it may be a bit overkill to have all 70kw worth of
solar going through battery based inverters, when I need only a small
amount of backup power. But I would also like to keep the whole system with
the same manufacturer inverter for monitoring simplicity.

I am considering two Sol-Ark 30K inverters, but their L3 battery system
will do a minimum of 40kWh. I need to keep it under 20kWh because of
permitting issues.

I am leaning towards Enphase, because their commercial MI's are high
powered and surprisingly low cost. Especially since this is a roof mount on
a pitched roof, and that will take care of rapid shutdown. But in order to
use their batteries, we need a 240V split phase system. I am thinking of
using a couple strings of IQ8's to integrate with their batteries, and then
use a 208V to 240V transformer to hook into the rest of the electrical
system in the building. Something like this:
https://store.maddoxtransformer.com/products/d7271c82-ce60-5b76-8198-4a9150263607

My only concern here is wondering whether there will be phase issues, if I
am taking two legs from the 208V primary at 120 degrees from each other and
turning that into 240V for the IQ system controller. I would love to hear
if someone has done something like this successfully. I don't want to find
out during installation if it wont work.

Or, if anyone has other equipment suggestions, I am open to that too.

Thanks!
-Dave

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[RE-wrenches] ESS and generator install in Concord, MA

[Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches]

Hi All,

Is anyone interested in, or can recommend someone, for an ESS and generator
installation in Concord MA? It is not a good site for solar, and they are
grid connected. If so, please contact me off list at d...@sungineersolar.com
.

Cheers,
Dave

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[RE-wrenches] vent fan with Sol-Ark

[Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches]

Hi All,

What do you all do to power an inline vent fan to vent a flooded lead acid
battery bank with a Sol-Ark inverter? On Outback equipment, this is very
straightforward to program a 12V relay in the equipment. I don't see
anything similar in the Sol-Ark manual, and just tried calling them and
person I talked to was clueless about why someone would need this.

I have used one of the Zephyr in line fans in the past, like this one:
https://www.thesolarbiz.com/zephyr-power-vent-fan-for-12-volt-battery-systems.html

Does anyone have suggestions of a way to power something like this? Or a
different way to actively vent a battery box? I prefer to not have a DC
draw that does not go through the inverter if possible.

Cheers,
Dave

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sunpower connectors

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

As of July 19,2024 some say that SunPower's announcement to stop new 
leases, installations, and shipments may indicate the end of the company 
as an operating business. SunPower's stock has also dropped nearly 93% 
in the last 12 months


Ouch, fair to say the writing has been on the wall or the WallStreet 
longer than 2024.  Better get your parts soon😉


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-08-01 9:13 am, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches wrote:


Evan,
I am not sure if this is the same issue, but I have seen a lot of arc 
fault issues with the E20-327 modules paired with SMA inverters. Every 
system that we have done repairs on have had the Yukita junction boxes, 
and there were a handful of failed solder joints on the diodes in the 
junction boxes. Sunpower is having contractors cut out the diodes and 
install an external diode per module. The issues related to this have 
popped up a lot in the past few years, even though the modules were 
installed roughly around 2015-2018.


Cheers,
Dave

On Thu, Aug 1, 2024 at 12:04 PM Evan M via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Anyone happen know the make/model of connectors associated with the 
Sunpower cracking issues a couple years back? News stories do a good 
job of obscuring it.


https://www.pv-tech.org/sunpower-hit-by-us31-million-cracking-issue-warns-of-further-drags-on-q4-results/
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sunpower connectors

[Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches]

Evan,
I am not sure if this is the same issue, but I have seen a lot of arc fault
issues with the E20-327 modules paired with SMA inverters. Every system
that we have done repairs on have had the Yukita junction boxes, and there
were a handful of failed solder joints on the diodes in the junction boxes.
Sunpower is having contractors cut out the diodes and install an external
diode per module. The issues related to this have popped up a lot in the
past few years, even though the modules were installed roughly around
2015-2018.

Cheers,
Dave

On Thu, Aug 1, 2024 at 12:04 PM Evan M via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Anyone happen know the make/model of connectors associated with the
> Sunpower cracking issues a couple years back? News stories do a good job of
> obscuring it.
>
>
> https://www.pv-tech.org/sunpower-hit-by-us31-million-cracking-issue-warns-of-further-drags-on-q4-results/
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] KiloVault Issues

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Another one bites the dust !  From Google.

As of March 2024, KiloVault, a solar energy storage company, is no 
longer in business.


"we go where powerlines don't"
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text 209 813 0060

On 2024-07-30 10:55 am, Chris Daum via RE-wrenches wrote:

Any ideas on what might be ailing our KiloVault LiFePo4 3600HLX+ 
batteries?
Customer has 8 of the 3600HLX+ (300ah).  New outta the box and they 
aren't
holding charge. We hear that KiloVault is out of business?  Inverter is 
the
Sol-Ark 15K.  Insights on what we can do and other ideas that can 
provide a
direction will be appreciated.  Generator is 20KW 
Generwreck...er...Generac.

The installer is the customer's electrician.  Thanks so much!

Best,

Chris Daum
Oasis Montana Inc.
406-777- 4321
406-777-4309 fax
www.oasismontana.com [1]

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Mate 3 firmware updates

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=outback+mate3s

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
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text 209 813 0060

On 2024-07-19 4:18 pm, Jim Gowdy via RE-wrenches wrote:

I'm somewhat new to the solar industry and I'm starting to break into 
programming and more computer involved skills of solar.  I primarily do 
small cabins and service work, but have been a part of some decent 
residential systems.  Does anyone have any good literature and/or 
videos of updating firmware on Outback Mate3 controllers.  I've seen 
instructions, but I hear little tricks/tips that are not at all in the 
instructions.  I'm looking for a really good, detailed instruction 
sheet so I can keep it for reference.  Thanks for any responses.

--

Jim with Gowdy Electric
Cambria, Ca 93428
business  805 927 2630
cell  805 975 5279
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Another Mate 3 programming issues

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

MX60 was not networked which was the reason I stopped using them and 
went to Xantrex around 2005. Not surprised that you could not change 
MX60 settings on mate.  Long time ago...


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [2]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [3]  [2]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-07-19 9:59 am, Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches wrote:

Not sure if this helps but I had installed a full blown Outback  twin 
VFX 3648 with two MX60's with the old green cabinets back in 2005. Last 
year I had to replace the two inverters with the new FXR as the VFX is 
discontinued. In order to do this I had to dump the old oval mate and 
move up to the Mate3s, as well as replace the old Hub 10.1 and use the 
newer 10.3. When all said and done, the Mate saw the old MX60's but you 
were unable to make changes or access any data/settings. One other 
note, the 2nd inverter goes on port 7 of the Hub, not port 2 as we've 
been use to in the past.


Christopher

On Fri, Jul 19, 2024 at 12:30 PM jay via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:

HI Chris,

Can you give us more data?

Like is this a new problem, or it only started after X?

Since its not seeing the port ( NA) it could be the CC or the HUB, or 
the cable.
the hub will show an active LED light if its connecting to anything on 
that port.


You can try plugging into the CC directly to see if it reads it, 
probably easier with another mate.


It just sucks to not have tech support or anyone on wrenches from some 
OEMS


Jay

On Jul 19, 2024, at 10:13 AM, Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


This is grid tied system with all firmware updates that the Mate 3s 
recognizes. I cannot figure this blank data menu out.  I have to 
program the battery ABS, FLOAT settings from the FM60 CC.  System is 12 
years old so no Tech support available even if they answer the 
phone


Has anyone have advice for if this is normal, or if there seems to be 
an issue? Used a spare Mate 3s with no difference.  Thank you, Chris


--
Christopher Warfel
ENTECH Engineering Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
401-477-5773
 [1]

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_www.solarandwindfx.com [4] ~ E-mail: chris@solarandwindfx.com_

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Re: [RE-wrenches] AES RACK MOUNT

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Awesome reliability on the AES 6650's we use with XW. Super easy 
installation.
The cons on the new racks are that they are more work to install 
compared to the 6650. Two ways to install with Schneider though. 
Discover has said they will automate with the internet the install soon.


I would not compare with EG4 as I do not know who is the deep pocket 
there with them and they are new on the scene.


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-07-17 5:58 am, Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches wrote:


Greetings,
Whose using the new Discover
Rack mounted batteries?
They look like the EG4 line up
Pros and Cons ?
Thanks

Jeremy Rodriguez
Solar Installation / Design
All Solar, Inc.
1453 M St.
Penrose Colorado 81240

Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand.
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Ideas and help please. Solar Edge nightmare

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

You are talking about the LG RESU10  H   right?

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-07-10 3:20 pm, Peter Giroux via RE-wrenches wrote:

Hi my fellow wrenchers, need some help with an older SolarEdge Storedge 
system.  System has  14 kw solar, two 7.6 Storedge inverters and each 
inverter has one LG RESU 10 battery. System was installed 6 to 7 years 
ago and has worked great until the LG's started acting up. LG replaced 
them and in the interim one of the 7.6's went down. SE replaced it. 
Everything has been up and running for 12 months, SE did all the 
required firmware updates, batteries and inverters when we finished 
replacing batteries and inverter.


So, the problem is the system comes out of program every 3 to 5 days 
and luckily my customer knows how to reengage it and reprogram the 
system ( total consumption ). We have been calling SE Support for 
months and it hit a peak two weeks ago. They are telling us we need 
shielded 600Volt CAT5 twisted pair wire for all the comms. We have 
shielded cat non twisted pair, the wire they had us install 6 years ago 
( which has worked just fine. When I asked the tech do I use one or 
both of a twisted pair he said just one. I asked what is the difference 
from the wire we are using if you are asking us to use just one of each 
twisted pair. They could not answer and when asked to get a more senior 
tech they said until we had shielded cat 5 twisted pair installed we 
could no longer speak with them.


I found some 600 volt, shielded cat 5 twisted pair and installed one 
section, from one inverter to it battery. Took forever to separate the 
twisted pair, strip one and insert it. System is now Buggier than it 
was.


The tech could not explain why the system has worked well for 6 years 
with the shielded single wire and after replacing a inverter and the 
batteries it is now throwing the programing, just demanded the 600 
volt, cat 5 shielded wire.


So folks, my apologies for rambling by both my customer and I are at 
our wits end. We have reached out to the head of tech support but only 
crickets. Any and all help or ideas appreciated.


Thx

Peter Giroux

American Solar

Norcross Ga

678 525 0468
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress LFP batteries and Outback charge controller

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

 You and the client lose the ability to monitor it all in one place do 
you not?


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-06-29 4:48 pm, Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches wrote:


All,

I'm wondering if there are any precautions if charging a Fortress 
Evault LFP bank using 1 or more OB charge controllers, in tandem with 
an Envy inverter PV input.


I know it will have to be programmed differently, and it will be open 
loop, no CC control from the BMU,.


This is a net metered system using a Fortress 12 kw inverter. The total 
PV input of the inverter is 21 kw. Max sell back is 12 kw, while 
charging batteries at 6 kw.


My issue is the customer has his heart set on maxing out the roof 
capacity at 25 kw. And I don't really need to add a second inverter for 
critical loads, Only to increase integrated DC-coupled PV capacity.


So I feasibly put part of the array on external charge controller(s) , 
open-looped, and the remainder on a single 12kw Envy inverter.


A second inverter also increases the AC capacity, and as a result, 
involves a more comprehensive review for net metering approval in 
Vermont (new trigger for additional review is greater than 15 kw AC)..


--

Kirk Herander / kirkh@vermont.solar

Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC

_Celebrating our 33st Anniversary 1991-2024!!_

dba Vermont Solar Engineering

802.559.1225
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[RE-wrenches] Looking for Powerewall installer for central California

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

 Any wrenches installing the powerwall 3 in central Cali ?

https://www.tesla.com/support/energy/powerwall/learn/what-expect-powerwall-3

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback app

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Is this referring to the Android or iOS app?
They appear to be dead horses.
Optics is functional via a web browser.

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-06-17 2:49 pm, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote:


Is the Outback app working?

I can log into my account but not the app?

Thx
Jay
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Dual battery bank switch for 48 VDC system

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Good Luck !   I look every year and there are never any rated this high. 
A few knock-off cheap ones but???


I have used the Blue Seas and one other with this app. If you are 
careful about switching under big loads/EQV's it will last.


If this is an insured home, you have to disclose this or be Lawyer 
fodder in a fire. Even then I would let the client buy it.


The other way around is to use 250A rated Midnite or Schneider inverter 
breakers. It is clunky as you have to know what you are doing when using 
it. You could easily turn both off and lose power. The 4 position Blue 
Seas takes that out and is much easier to

understand.

I did the 250s a few times and it worked well, is not inexpensive, and 
was legal for Home Insurance.


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-06-15 10:18 am, greg egan via RE-wrenches wrote:

Wrenches,  I have a customer who has a 2 strings of AGM's @ 48 VDC that 
we want to split so we can charge them at decent charge rate. Adding 
more PV and/or larger generator and inverter is cost prohibitive.  I've 
seen Blue Seas (#3002) 4 position 500 amp switches that are rated for 
32VDC.  Max he could possibly pull at once with his system is less than 
100 amps.


I would assume the Blue Seas 3002 would work and I'd probably use it in 
my garage, but I'm not comfortable recommending it to a customer.  Any 
suggestions on a 60 VDC rated unit that could handle say 150 amps and 
4/0 cables?


Maybe I'm being too cautious since the max load would be < 6KW and the 
3002 is rated for 16kW load (32 VDC /500A)?   Thoughts?


Thank you,

Greg Egan
Remote Power Inc.
Fairbanks, AK
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex XW6048 HOT!

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Yes worrisome. The fault log will show possible causes. The 
troubleshooting guide will tell you too look for black chunks of mosfet 
transistors in the right bay of XW down low. Really rare, but in a hot 
environment 10 years is pretty amazing.


All of the docs are on the Schneider site under XW 120.
https://solar.se.com/us/en/discontinued-products/

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-06-13 2:22 pm, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:

Yes, I checked the air flow. It seems equal to the others. It's really 
strange because after turning off Inverting and Charging, the unit is 
idle and does not cool down. That's worrisome.


Jason Szumlanski
Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208

On Thu, Jun 13, 2024 at 1:12 PM Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:



Hi Jason,

Have you checked the black removeable air intake filter on the bottom 
of the inverter to make sure it's not clogged up? Check fan operation 
with a piece of paper above the inverter - is it blowing air? That's 
where I'd start.


Kevin

From: RE-wrenches  On 
Behalf Of Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches

Sent: June-13-24 8:01 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Jason Szumlanski 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex XW6048 HOT!

I'm looking at an off-grid quad inverter setup for a client, not my 
installation. One of the stacked.inverters is extremely hot, sometimes 
it goes into F66 and takes down the adjacent inverters with it to F66 
probably because of these Xanbus network is broken.


I disabled charging and discharging on the inverter that is getting 
hot, but it's still remains very hot. Any ideas?


I tried to put that one inverter in standby, but the generator will 
not sync with the remaining three and charge the batteries. So I have 
to leave it in normal operating mode for the moment.


Jason Szumlanski

Florida Solar Design Group  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex XW6048 HOT!

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Disco 250A breaker on bad XW and remove its xanbus RJ45. Assume the bad 
one is not the master?


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-06-13 8:01 am, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:

I'm looking at an off-grid quad inverter setup for a client, not my 
installation. One of the stacked.inverters is extremely hot, sometimes 
it goes into F66 and takes down the adjacent inverters with it to F66 
probably because of these Xanbus network is broken.


I disabled charging and discharging on the inverter that is getting 
hot, but it's still remains very hot. Any ideas?


I tried to put that one inverter in standby, but the generator will not 
sync with the remaining three and charge the batteries. So I have to 
leave it in normal operating mode for the moment.


Jason Szumlanski
Florida Solar Design Group
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex XW6048 HOT!

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Going out the door.

If the bad inverter is the master. You will need to assign a new master. 
Since this is 1st generation XW you will need to use SCP and probably 
use the manual if you are not familiar. Rebuild the xanbus network.


That is alot of loading and the usual warnings about heat killing 
electronics and the need of cooling down your way.  Good Luck!


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-06-13 8:26 am, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches 
wrote:


Disco 250A breaker on bad XW and remove its xanbus RJ45. Assume the bad 
one is not the master?


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
[1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-06-13 8:01 am, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:

I'm looking at an off-grid quad inverter setup for a client, not my 
installation. One of the stacked.inverters is extremely hot, sometimes 
it goes into F66 and takes down the adjacent inverters with it to F66 
probably because of these Xanbus network is broken.


I disabled charging and discharging on the inverter that is getting 
hot, but it's still remains very hot. Any ideas?


I tried to put that one inverter in standby, but the generator will 
not sync with the remaining three and charge the batteries. So I have 
to leave it in normal operating mode for the moment.


Jason Szumlanski
Florida Solar Design Group
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Two Outback Radian 8048 fails in same week..what is likely wrong in 7+ year inverters?

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

High temperatures are a major cause of electronic equipment failures, 
contributing to more than 50% of them. A rule of thumb is that for every 
10°C increase in temperature, the failure rate of electronic components 
will double and their life will be reduced by half. This rule is based 
on the Arrhenius equation, which can be used to compare damage that 
accumulates over time at different temperatures.


 In troubleshooting a very rare failure in XW that sounds like yours, 
look for little black chunks of Mosfet chips in the power section.


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-06-09 3:49 pm, Scot Arey via RE-wrenches wrote:

Longtime Outback user but since the experience of this group is so 
varied, I'll say 8-years (so you real old-timers don't laugh!).


Here is the scenario of two systems:

First is a full off-grid customer and we have two stacked 8048s, with 
four FM80s and a 14kw array that charges a RE2200. After a home fire 
(not related to the solar!) we got the system back on and it required 
heavy dual inverter operations to get the home going after a four-month 
hiatus. Looks like that slave inverter stopped working at end of the 
day after we re-powered and departed. He can operate with the single 
8048.


The second situation is a used 8048 I have at the Texas coast that 
powers a small duck/hunt bunkhouse. It was used system (and I'm a 
benefitting member) but worked just fine when I put in. Went down to 
check the batteries (FLA, as AGM nor lithium was in budget) and there 
was not inverter output and no indication on the MATE like an error 
code.


So my question is - what typically fails in a 8048 from old age or heat 
stress? Wanted to ask here since so many issues with Outback tech spt 
during its transition. Neither inverter is in warranty, but trying to 
field repair anything I might be able to.


I do have battery voltage past the two 175A disconnects in the GSLC. No 
"thump" I typically get when the inverter first gets battery power and 
no lights.


Any troubleshooting tips to identify the culprit part?

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark Support

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Optics was down again last weekend and I read this comment below from 
the Outback forum.


Day 11….without communication with our Sol Ark 15k inverter….Thanks 
Sol-Ark Solar


* Quote [4]

Post [5]  Mon Jun 03, 2024 4:07 pm

Who would have known? A conspiracy theorist that is right??? So it is no 
longer a conspiracy?  😉😎


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [2]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [3]  [2]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-06-05 11:13 am, Lloyd Hoffstatter via RE-wrenches wrote:


Hi Howie,

Text from FB user Scott Shadle Sol-Ark owners  Information network:

Migration update (edit at 10 am central...my plant is now populating 
the new solark app. So...hang in there)


Just had a very nice call with Sol Ark tech support.  He suggested that 
perhaps my Facebook update would help reduce the huge number of calls 
they are getting.   I took notes.  I don't work for Sol Ark.  I have no 
idea if any of the following is factual other than it is what the tech 
support person relayed to me.


1.  The migration has been challenging.  They are using a 3rd party 
entity to do the work.  The did a first test of 100 sites. A second 
test of 4,000 sites.  At that point they did not have any material 
problems and attempted a full roll out of the remaining sites.  They 
had a lot (no definition of "a lot") of sites that had problems.  So, 
it is accurate that many of you are seeing the migration but a 
significant number of others (like me) are not getting information on 
either the old pv pro or the new mysolark.


2.  Why?  He said they believe it has to do with the wifi dongle.  I 
didn't try to get more specific.  Just said that the wifi dongle is not 
pointing at either site, so...like my situation...you are not able to 
see any information inside any of the apps...old or new.  Nor can you 
access your 15k to do any remote changes.  If you want to make changes 
you will have to go to the device.


3.  Fix and timing?  Unknown.  He asked that I be patient and give it a 
week, but hoped it would be resolved sooner.


4.  Is there any steps I the customer can take to make this better.  
No.  It is all on their side.


5. Data migration.  He suggested that the data migration is still an 
open topic.  I expressed to him that in my emails with the PV Pro tech 
support they only allow for you to download one day at a 
time.oruse their reporting screens to get summarized 
information in graphical format (not the actual data).  He said the 
whole data migration topic is still being worked on by Sol Ark and they 
are reaching out to their installers and of course end user customers 
to try and layer in more and more functionality on the data reporting / 
data harvesting side of things.  The suggestion...without any 
specifics...was that the new site will have much more functionality 
soonand...they can continue to improve it over time.  They did not 
have that ability with PV Pro.


6. Mobile app.  For those not aware, there is a new app (I'm on android 
and it was easy to download and put in my plant) mysolark.


He asked that we be patient.  Said tech support is getting swamped with 
calls and that they (tech support) can't really do anything to help 
until the 3rd party company fixes the migration issue(s).


Nice guy.  Reasonable responses.

Hopefully this will help some of you who are puzzled by fellow Facebook 
users on this board that are having no issues.

I'm going to give it a week.

Best regards
-

From: Lloyd Hoffstatter 
Sent: Wednesday, June 5, 2024 2:07:43 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Howie Michaelson 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark Support

They are swamped with calls while they work to transition, and 
partially depends on a third party per user comments on Sol-ark users 
FB group after talking to tech support.

Best regards,
Lloyd

Get Outlook for iOS [1]
-

From: RE-wrenches  on behalf 
of Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches 

Sent: Wednesday, June 5, 2024 1:41:07 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Howie Michaelson 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark Support

Is anyone else having trouble getting through to Sol-Ark support?

Howie Michaelson
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Re: [RE-wrenches] How many times can a rafter have a lag screw put in and out before it is no longer structurally sound? Some roofs getting their 3rd set of new shingles

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Scott,

For liability you might want a before and after inspection by a really 
top inspector that you trust.


I would also ask your insurance for guidance. My insurance is always 
telling me that going out of business is the typical last

straw for roofers.

Build a solar pergola😉

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [2]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [3]  [2]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-05-30 11:41 am, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote:

I would add to this that the size of the lag is a factor too.  3/8" 
lags into 1-1/2" wide rafters are going to cause much more damage, and 
leave larger voids, than the new 1/4" high strength lags I use now.  I 
like the rafter sistering idea, as a solution, as well as moving the 
rails up or down several inches to get away from the previous hole.  A 
third idea is staggering the mount pattern from rail to rail, which is 
something we should all be doing anyway to insure the loads are more 
equally distributed across all the rafters. Then we just change the 
pattern on the 2nd installation.


Unfortunately I think much of this will be lost, since some of the 
companies that roofers subcontract with to do these remove and replace 
jobs are not always the top solar contractors.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar

On 5/29/2024 10:17 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches wrote:


Scot:

Fascinating question.  It's a bit ironic that the changing climate is 
damaging the equipment we are utilizing to combat climate change.


A lag unscrewed will damage a wooden member less than a lag ripped 
out.  From your post it seems we are dealing with the former, rather 
than the latter.


If your layout isn't changing there is a likelihood that the new 
mounting locations will be at our near the old mounting locations.  
This will be true for a rafter lag or deck mount screw.  It seems to 
me the process of re-screwing in the same spot in a rafter is just as 
questionable as re-screwing in the same spot in sheeting.  I see no 
benefit in deck mounting and many disadvantages.


If severe weather is an issue I would avoid deck mounting unless you 
have vetted the decking and the applicability of the chosen fasteners 
to that material.  I would not standing-seam mount without knowing how 
the sheeting panels are secured and finding a method to calculate how 
many clips are needed given the increasing wind loads.


I see two questions about reinstalling screws repeatedly:

1.   Is the rafter less able to support loads?  Or,

2.   Is the rafter (or decking) less able to retain the fasteners 
holding the PV to the roof?


Speculation on the above:

1.   Wood fibers adhere to each other.  They are not like a bundle of 
straws.  If you damage a fiber in one place, it is supported on either 
side of the point of damage by this adherence.  My guess is by just 
withdrawing screws a few times you do not compromise the load handling 
ability of a rafter member.  Site built rafters require different 
considerations than trusses.  Site built are a wild-card and need to 
be considered on a case-by-case basis.


2.   If you penetrate wood with screws multiple times in a small area, 
you are going to make that area "soft."  Screw holding capabilities 
will be drastically reduced.


Options that I see:

1.   Flashed stanchions.  The lags never need to be removed.

2.   Blocking, to attach in new locations.

3.   Sistering, again to attach in new locations.

4.   Not deck mounting (IMHO).

Anecdote:  We had a tile roof mount inspected one August afternoon.  
The inspector insisted on looking in the attic.  We asked why and he 
said this city has a particular concern about structural integrity of 
wood framed roofs.  I was aware of this because I have had some silly 
arguments about this with the lead inspector.  Apparently they have 
seen a lot of big-box solar company installers drive lags carelessly 
and had the lags blow out the side of the rafter.  If they spot this 
they make the installer hire an engineer and design a system to sister 
the rafters to engineering standards.  I totally get this concern.  We 
use a rafter locator and are really careful.  This is not to say we 
have not had a blow out now and then.  You gotta have a feel for the 
torque resistance of a lag while seating.


Thank you for bringing this up.  As I said, fascinating (to this 
wonk).


William

Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com [1]

CA Lic. 773985

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] 
On Behalf Of Scot Arey via RE-wrenches

Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2024 3:16 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Cc: scot.a...@solarcentex.com
Subject: [RE-wrenches] How many times can a rafter have a lag screw 
put in and out before it is no longer structurally sound? Some roofs 
getting their 3rd set of new shingles


With all our Texas hail storms, we now have roof solar syst

Re: [RE-wrenches] Simpliphi Phi 3.8 48V Case Color

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

All I can add is get the closed loop version with electronics that can 
interface. It is a huge improvement over open loop.


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-05-29 9:10 am, Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches wrote:

I was under impression that white case has a communication and black 
has none.  Some inverters can communicate some can not with the white 
case.  On a new project have matched inverter and battery.


On Wed, May 29, 2024, 6:15 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Is there a difference in the batteries in a white case vs. black case? 
Are they compatible in terms of paralleling them?


Secondary question - I can't find the maximum number of these 
batteries in parallel. Is anyone aware of the capacity limit?


Jason Szumlanski
Florida Solar Design Group

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Re: [RE-wrenches] NOS SMA-41

[Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches]

John,
Just an FYI, the new SBSE inverters are available in the up to 7.7kw
models. I believe the SPS is possible with them right now, but the more
involved backup options are not yet available.
Cheers,
Dave

On Tue, May 28, 2024 at 1:50 PM John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Jeremy,
> I’m looking for the same inverter as well.  I was just going to post info
> on a PV upgrade for one of my oldest customers currently running a grid tie
> with backup installed in  2002.  It is a Trace SW4024 with 3 MX60's and 3
> TOP racks of 12 Sunwize 110's.  I am going to repanel with 24 365 watt
> panels or higher with some continuing to feed into 2 FM80’s and the rest of
> the PV direct grid tied.  I was looking at the Secure Power supply as a
> source when grid was out to feed the additional power to the batteries
> through 2 iota DLS  24v 40 amps chargers in a longer outage.  It looks like
> the new SMA 3.8 hybrid inverter would also work but may not yet be
> available.
>
> John.
>
> On Tue, May 28, 2024 at 7:Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Looking for an SB3.8-1SP-US-41 if anyone has one please contact me off
>> list
>>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1453+M+St.+%0D%0A+Penrose+Colorado+81240?entry=gmail&source=g>
>> Jeremy Rodriguez
>> Solar Installation / Design
>> All Solar, Inc.
>> 1453 M St.
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1453+M+St.+%0D%0A+Penrose+Colorado+81240?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>
>> Penrose Colorado 81240
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1453+M+St.+%0D%0A+Penrose+Colorado+81240?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>
>> Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand.
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-- 
[image: Logo] <https://www.sungineersolar.com/>
Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
Owner | Sungineer Solar
p: he | him | his
a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
w: www.sungineersolar.com <http://www.sungineersolar.com/>
c: (607) 270-0370
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Discover AES exposion

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Hey Michael,

I heard that it was a pretty small shed, can you comment on that please. 
Good luck on the trouble shooting.


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-05-27 8:40 pm, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches wrote:


Hey Everybody,

I wanted to circle back on the Discover AES explosion that I reported a 
few weeks ago. As far as we know, there was a thermal runaway 
situation. Gas from the battery filled the power room and then ignited 
causing an explosion. It was hot enough that anything plastic melted. 
The steel man door blew off its hinges. Beyond that, we are still 
trying to figure out why it happened.


For now, what I want to say is that Discover has been awesome. The VP, 
CEO and crew responded immediately. They are paying for the cleanup of 
the building by a specialized remediation company, offered to pay to 
have the building rebuilt, 2nd day shipped new rack mount batteries and 
a pre-built Schneider system to the site. Are paying a plumbing 
contractor to replace all of the plumbing (booster pump, pressure tank 
and significant treatment equipment. Flying Mike Wight (ace off-grid 
installer and applications engineer for Discover) to the site for the 
rebuild. And reimbursing me for my involvement. This with no coercion 
or dawdling about. As soon as they found out, they were on it. I spoke 
with the VP and CEO and they genuinely care about my clients and want 
to do right for the sake of doing right, not to avoid litigation. Tell 
me of another RE company, or any company for that matter that would 
respond this way.

--

Michael Morningstar

Morningstar Electric Inc

PO Box 1494

Mount Shasta, CA 96067

530-921-0560

CSLB 1116835

mjmornings...@gmail.com

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Water system with Grundfos SQFlex

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Hey Brad,

Sometimes shooting is best if you tell more on what you have done so far 
like using the SQF shooting guide, especially on a holiday weekend😉
Assume there is a CU200 controller and pump is in ground still, must be 
with 100ft head, sorry

No high amps? It runs, How old?

--Dave

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-05-26 4:26 am, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote:


Hi Brad

With 2 check valves leaking I'd look for a broken pipe or a corroded 
fitting.


If there is anyway to isolate between the 2 check valves then you could 
measure the pressure drop on both sides which should point to the 
direction of the leak.


Jay

On May 25, 2024, at 7:41 PM, Bradley Bassett via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


I have a water system with a Grundfos SQFlex SQF3-2 pump. I'm getting 
water flow in reverse either through the pump or a leak up to the 
pump. My question is if the check valve on the top of the pump is not 
sealing, will the progressive cavity pump allow water to flow through 
the pump in reverse? I'd think that with a positive displacement pump 
it would not, except very slowly or if it turned the motor backwards 
which I think would be very unlikely. There is about 100 psi head on  
the pump.


I think it's most likely I have a leak somewhere in the plumbing, and 
of course another failed check valve farther up in the plumbing. It's 
possible to get failures even with redundant protection if you have 
two concurrent failures, which I must have here.


Brad Bassett
Old time solar guy who used to do solar pumping back in the '80's and 
'90's. Mostly retired now.


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback Tech Support

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Jay, maybe the price was right? Obvious the old parent corporation 
wanted into commercial solar. As for EG4 maybe the old lawyer shark 
saying about eat or be eaten. It was about 5 years back that Schneider 
sold all commercial solar and it helped their stock.


Crossing fingers! Happy hour soon!

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-05-24 3:58 pm, jay via RE-wrenches wrote:


Hi Drake,

What it says to me is that they either fired everyone or said move to 
tx.


I've always joked that if the potential project I'm to work on starts 
badly it never gets better.


I still don't understand why the owners of EG4 would by a legacy 
inverter company?


Jay

On May 24, 2024, at 4:20 PM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Hello All,

With the sale of Outback, their tech support seems to have 
disappeared. Around the time of the sale, tech support had agreed to 
send me a new control stack for a Radian. After a long delay, they did 
send it, but were quick to remind me to return the core.


When the new control stack was installed, the inverter would not work. 
The error message was AC Out Voltage Low. I put the old one back in 
and returned the one they sent. There is no one to talk to, and no one 
answers email.


Do you know if the new owners are planning to honor product warranty? 
Is tech support coming back?


This is a pretty rough transition. It will likely leave a number of 
people in the dark.


Fun Times Indeed!

Drake

_Drake Chamberlin_

_Athens Electric LLC_

_Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810_

_NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional_

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback Tech Support

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Marshall Neipert [3]Forum MemberPosts: 11 [4]Joined: Mon May 20, 2024 
10:07 amMy RE system: President of Outback Power

https://www.linkedin.com/in/neipertContact:
Contact Marshall Neipert [5]

You should ask him Drake! He is on the forum and responding to some 
emails. Here is in a link that he is taking suggestions on

https://forum.outbackpower.com/viewtopic.php?t=18726

Kind of weird that the president is using a linkedin address but it is 
their company now. That is the main reason I responded on the Solar edge 
stock.
You have to stay in business to be in business. With that price hit and 
an address in Isreal right now, beware!


I know very little about roof mounted electronics because I do not go on 
roofs. I totally get it that most here do. I still have my rights I 
think!


FRIDAY ! Stay Safe !

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-05-24 3:20 pm, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches wrote:


Hello All,

With the sale of Outback, their tech support seems to have disappeared. 
Around the time of the sale, tech support had agreed to send me a new 
control stack for a Radian. After a long delay, they did send it, but 
were quick to remind me to return the core.


When the new control stack was installed, the inverter would not work. 
The error message was AC Out Voltage Low. I put the old one back in and 
returned the one they sent. There is no one to talk to, and no one 
answers email.


Do you know if the new owners are planning to honor product warranty? 
Is tech support coming back?


This is a pretty rough transition. It will likely leave a number of 
people in the dark.


Fun Times Indeed!

Drake

_Drake Chamberlin_

_Athens Electric LLC_

_Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810_

_NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional_

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[5] https://forum.outbackpower.com/viewtopic.php?t=18726#___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] I know you've all said, "I told you so..." SolarEdge...

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Well to me the final, final straw is their stock price losing 2/3 its 
value in a year.


I tell all of my clients if you ever have to do roof solar, you should 
use a central inverter and not ever put electronics on a roof. Bad 
enough to put solar panels up there!


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-05-24 9:10 am, Scot Arey via RE-wrenches wrote:

SolarEdge…I keep saying they fixed their reliability issues, but the 
latest storms in Central Texas leave me again with frustration. Some 
systems worked, others did not. Worst was ones that were 
surge-sensitive as grid utility power was restored so a system in 
backup yesterday turns into a service call with the grid back, as a 
finicky BUI transfer switch didn't go back to grid power.


Make the run to the affected customer and wait and wait and wait for 
tech support, only for them to finally take my call after I've packed 
everything up (how long must we wait for a call pickup?) and the first 
question is "send us pics of the installation." Of course that is to 
grade the work and despite me saying we replaced a comms card in 
November, and don't you have that picture still? I get the tier-1 
blocking before I get to tier-2.


I've had a lot of final straws with SolarEdge, each time assuaged by a 
"we're fixing reliability…we've improved tech support" but objectively, 
this company drives most of my reliability frustration. Intra-"box" 
comms are so finicky. I've told them they have Backup Interface Units 
that get stuck between grid and backup during the rapid on and off 
utility outages that come with many storms and they try to say "we have 
not seen that" but I tell them I gave five examples just from me!


Vent over…know many of you have left SolarEdge and I suppose its stock 
price a manifestation of that.


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Primo with tigos Arc fault issue

[Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches]

This winter we were fixing up a system with a fronius primo inverter and
adding rapid shutdown. Fronius very much recommended against using Tigo.
They recommended we use Fire Raptors. They have been working fine.

Cheers,
Dave


On Thu, May 23, 2024, 8:27 PM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi Jeremy!
>
> We have encountered this his issue years ago with the AO and Fronius
> suggested we deactivate the arc fault setting. It works, but in order to do
> so, they give you a special passcode to input. Not an ideal solution. Arc
> fault detection is not worth compromising . IMO avoid this combination by
> all means.
>
> Kindly,
>
> Chris
>
>
> On Thu, May 23, 2024 at 7:18 PM Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>>  Has anyone had issues with Tigo TS4AF rapid shut down devices along with
>> their transmitter, causing arc fault codes with a Fronius Primo inverter?
>> Fronius tells me I need to use AP smart devices. Hmmm.
>>
>> Jeremy Rodriguez
>> Solar Installation / Design
>> All Solar, Inc.
>> 1453 M St.
>> Penrose Colorado 81240
>>
>> Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand.
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Optics

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

 by vincjwan [14] » Mon May 20, 2024 10:49 pm

it's back online but without Graph and historic data

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [5]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [6]  [5]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-05-21 7:32 am, Todd Cory via RE-wrenches wrote:


"OPTICS RE Back Online [1]

* Report [2]
* Quote [3]

Post [1] by Marshall Neipert [4] » 20 May 2024 20:32

Enersys has fixed the issue and Optics RE is back online."

Except it is not for me.

Todd

On Tuesday, May 21, 2024 7:22am, "Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via 
RE-wrenches"  said:


Anyone who fixes Outback's inability to run closed loop would be great.

I think I have seen Outback claim it was coming soon for 5 years now. 
Hopefully they can get Optics

up soon for my 3 clients.

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" 
[5]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [6] [5] e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 
209 813 0060


On 2024-05-20 5:41 pm, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote:

I don't know who's bigger or has more money.

EG4 is a manufacturer

Signature is a distributor

Both are in the same town

Some one on this site said EG4 said they bought OB.

EG 4 makes more sense as they would have lots of Chinese manufacturing 
contacts. If OB is coming out with new products, I'd expect they are 
coming out of China.
I could easily see them partnering with any of the large Chinese 
companies.


I guess we will know soon.

Jay

On May 20, 2024, at 6:16 PM, Steve Higgins via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


At Intersolar (January) San Diego, I heard Bigbatterybox.com purchased 
Outback. Since then, I've heard it may be Signature Solar. I am unsure 
who purchased them, but with them being so close to Signature Solar, 
that makes sense. I'm not sure who purchased them, but they have been 
asleep at the wheel since then. They can't sell any product in Canada 
because they have let their CSA certificates lapse.


[7]
Steve Higgins ⋅ Technical Services Manager
t +1.902.597.4020  m +1.206.790.5840
f +1.902.597.8447  e st...@surrette.com
[8] [9] [10] [11]

-

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On Mon, May 20, 2024 at 4:45 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:
So here is the scoop, I got it that outback is moving to Dallas and 
will still be a premium product, and yes the optics shut down had 
something to do with the sale. Everyone hold on as they say they have 
new products at SPI this fall. Keep your fingers crossed and let's all 
wait patiently.

Fun times

On Sun, May 19, 2024, 10:53 AM Lou Russo via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:
I started poking through EnerSys's (The most recent owner of Outback) 
SEC filings in hopes to find who the new buyer is. I found nothing 
related to the sale but found this in their most recent quarterly 
report :


On November 8, 2023, the Company's Board of Directors approved a plan 
to stop production and operations of residential renewable energy 
products, which include our OutBack and Mojave brands. Management 
determined that residential renewable energy products no longer fit 
with the company's core strategy and resources will be better allocated 
toward commercial energy solutions for enterprise customers. The 
Company currently estimates that the total charges for these actions 
will amount to $23.5 million relating primarily to $22.6 million in 
non-cash charges primarily including inventory and an indefinite-lived 
intangible asset write-offs and $0.9 million in cash charges including 
employee severance and retention payments. The plan is expected to be 
completed in fiscal 2024. During the nine months of fiscal 2024, the 
Company recorded non-cash charges totaling $6.6 million primarily 
related to indefinite-lived intangible asset write-off and cash charges 
of $0.4 million related to severance costs. The Company also recorded a 
non-cash write off relating to inventories of $16.1 million, which was 
reported in cost of goods sold.


To say I am curious about what is going on is an understatement.

Aloha,

Lou Russo
Owner
l...@spreesolarsystems.com
808 345 6762
Spree Solar Systems LLC
CT-34322

On Sun, May 19, 2024 at 2:21 AM Jay via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


I agree with you William

While there could be all sorts of valid reasons for the downtime.

What's not acceptable is the lack of communication and notification 
that it was going to happen or had happened.


If they do have new owners they are not starting well.

Jay

On May 18, 2024, at 9:42 PM, Willia

Re: [RE-wrenches] Optics

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Anyone who fixes Outback's inability to run closed loop would be great.

I think I have seen Outback claim it was coming soon for 5 years now. 
Hopefully they can get Optics

up soon for my 3 clients.

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [8]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [9]  [8]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-05-20 5:41 pm, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote:


I don't know who's bigger or has more money.

EG4 is a manufacturer

Signature is a distributor

Both are in the same town

Some one on this site said EG4 said they bought OB.

EG 4 makes more sense as they would have lots of Chinese manufacturing 
contacts. If OB is coming out with new products, I'd expect they are 
coming out of China.
I could easily see them partnering with any of the large Chinese 
companies.


I guess we will know soon.

Jay

On May 20, 2024, at 6:16 PM, Steve Higgins via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


At Intersolar (January) San Diego, I heard Bigbatterybox.com purchased 
Outback. Since then, I've heard it may be Signature Solar. I am unsure 
who purchased them, but with them being so close to Signature Solar, 
that makes sense. I'm not sure who purchased them, but they have been 
asleep at the wheel since then. They can't sell any product in Canada 
because they have let their CSA certificates lapse.


[1]
Steve Higgins ⋅ Technical Services Manager
t +1.902.597.4020  m +1.206.790.5840
f +1.902.597.8447  e st...@surrette.com
[2] [3] [4] [5]

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On Mon, May 20, 2024 at 4:45 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:
So here is the scoop, I got it that outback is moving to Dallas and 
will still be a premium product, and yes the optics shut down had 
something to do with the sale. Everyone hold on as they say they have 
new products at SPI this fall. Keep your fingers crossed and let's all 
wait patiently.

Fun times

On Sun, May 19, 2024, 10:53 AM Lou Russo via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:
I started poking through EnerSys's (The most recent owner of Outback) 
SEC filings in hopes to find who the new buyer is. I found nothing 
related to the sale but found this in their most recent quarterly 
report :


On November 8, 2023, the Company's Board of Directors approved a plan 
to stop production and operations of residential renewable energy 
products, which include our OutBack and Mojave brands. Management 
determined that residential renewable energy products no longer fit 
with the company's core strategy and resources will be better allocated 
toward commercial energy solutions for enterprise customers. The 
Company currently estimates that the total charges for these actions 
will amount to $23.5 million relating primarily to $22.6 million in 
non-cash charges primarily including inventory and an indefinite-lived 
intangible asset write-offs and $0.9 million in cash charges including 
employee severance and retention payments. The plan is expected to be 
completed in fiscal 2024. During the nine months of fiscal 2024, the 
Company recorded non-cash charges totaling $6.6 million primarily 
related to indefinite-lived intangible asset write-off and cash charges 
of $0.4 million related to severance costs. The Company also recorded a 
non-cash write off relating to inventories of $16.1 million, which was 
reported in cost of goods sold.


To say I am curious about what is going on is an understatement.

Aloha,

Lou Russo
Owner
l...@spreesolarsystems.com
808 345 6762
Spree Solar Systems LLC
CT-34322

On Sun, May 19, 2024 at 2:21 AM Jay via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


I agree with you William

While there could be all sorts of valid reasons for the downtime.

What's not acceptable is the lack of communication and notification 
that it was going to happen or had happened.


If they do have new owners they are not starting well.

Jay

On May 18, 2024, at 9:42 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Friends:

I am sure you are all acutely aware, but this is not a trivial matter.  
We depend on Optics for alerts and trouble shooting.  We rely on Optics 
for the history it records to analyze trends and evaluate production 
and consumption. I doubt the data lost will back-fill.  I sell Outback 
based in great part on the Optics interface.  For this system to be 
down for days at a time is not a good sign at all.


I will be lighting up the phone lines on Monday to find out what 
happened and to emphasize this cannot become a pattern.


William

Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero

Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback:

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Interesting that Commerce, TX is 20 miles from Sulphur Springs, TX which 
is the home of Signature Solar.

  https://www.outbackpower.com/resources/ ... rt-request [4]
Shows:
404 Page Not Found
Component not found
 [5] The moderators (not Outback employees) on the forum have an 
interesting conspiracy thread going if it is a slow Monday.


https://forum.outbackpower.com/viewtopic.php?t=18704&start=25

Good info also on using WattPlott earlier in the thread.

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [2]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [3]  [2]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-05-20 8:51 am, William Miller via RE-wrenches wrote:


Friends:

Optics is still down as of Monday morning.  Outback does not answer 
telephone calls.  Options on their automated attendant are Tech Support 
and Sales.  Either selection directs you to sales but no one picks up.  
I left several messages.


I called Zonna Energy to ask.  They told me Outback had been purchased 
and moved to Texas.  Zonna has stock and is being promised 
manufacturing will be continued.  Zonna is aware Optics and Tech 
Support are unavailable but don't know when it will return. Zonna says 
Outback has been responding to on-line case requests.  They seem 
confident that the Outback line will continue as before.


That's what I have learned this morning.

William

Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com [1]

CA Lic. 773985

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[4] 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Optics

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Easier to read but still not a good sign!  When I worked at HP in the 
80's they struggled with keeping old equipment alive.


It was terribly expensive and they just stopped after 5 years and let 
the secondary market do repairs. Even that was expensive and


finally just stopped keeping any inventory. Repair by scavenging was the 
only way.


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060






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Re: [RE-wrenches] Optics

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

On November 8, 2023, the Company's Board of Directors approved a plan to 
stop production and operations of residential renewable energy products, 
which include our OutBack and Mojave brands. Management determined that 
residential renewable energy products no longer fit with the company's 
core strategy and resources will be better allocated toward commercial 
energy solutions for enterprise customers. The Company currently 
estimates that the total charges for these actions will amount to $23.5 
million relating primarily to $22.6 million in non-cash charges 
primarily including inventory and an indefinite-lived intangible asset 
write-offs and $0.9 million in cash charges including employee severance 
and retention payments. The plan is expected to be completed in fiscal 
2024. During the nine months of fiscal 2024, the Company recorded 
non-cash charges totaling $6.6 million primarily related to 
indefinite-lived intangible asset write-off and cash charges of $0.4 
million related to severance costs. The Company also recorded a non-cash 
write off relating to inventories of $16.1 million, which was reported 
in cost of goods sold.


To say I am curious about what is going on is an understatement.

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [3]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [4]  [3]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-05-19 10:51 am, Lou Russo via RE-wrenches wrote:

I started poking through EnerSys's (The most recent owner of Outback) 
SEC filings in hopes to find who the new buyer is. I found nothing 
related to the sale but found this in their most recent quarterly 
report :


On November 8, 2023, the Company's Board of Directors approved a plan 
to stop production and operations of residential renewable energy 
products, which include our OutBack and Mojave brands. Management 
determined that residential renewable energy products no longer fit 
with the company's core strategy and resources will be better allocated 
toward commercial energy solutions for enterprise customers. The 
Company currently estimates that the total charges for these actions 
will amount to $23.5 million relating primarily to $22.6 million in 
non-cash charges primarily including inventory and an indefinite-lived 
intangible asset write-offs and $0.9 million in cash charges including 
employee severance and retention payments. The plan is expected to be 
completed in fiscal 2024. During the nine months of fiscal 2024, the 
Company recorded non-cash charges totaling $6.6 million primarily 
related to indefinite-lived intangible asset write-off and cash charges 
of $0.4 million related to severance costs. The Company also recorded a 
non-cash write off relating to inventories of $16.1 million, which was 
reported in cost of goods sold.


To say I am curious about what is going on is an understatement.

Aloha,

Lou Russo
Owner
l...@spreesolarsystems.com
808 345 6762
Spree Solar Systems LLC
CT-34322

On Sun, May 19, 2024 at 2:21 AM Jay via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


I agree with you William

While there could be all sorts of valid reasons for the downtime.

What's not acceptable is the lack of communication and notification 
that it was going to happen or had happened.


If they do have new owners they are not starting well.

Jay

On May 18, 2024, at 9:42 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Friends:

I am sure you are all acutely aware, but this is not a trivial matter.  
We depend on Optics for alerts and trouble shooting.  We rely on Optics 
for the history it records to analyze trends and evaluate production 
and consumption. I doubt the data lost will back-fill.  I sell Outback 
based in great part on the Optics interface.  For this system to be 
down for days at a time is not a good sign at all.


I will be lighting up the phone lines on Monday to find out what 
happened and to emphasize this cannot become a pattern.


William

Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com [1]

CA Lic. 773985

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On 
Behalf Of Lou Russo via RE-wrenches

Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2024 11:50 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Cc: Lou Russo
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Optics

All my sites are currently down.

Not related but I tried to call tech support yesterday during business 
hours and got message saying thank you for calling Outback Sales leave 
a message.


I do hope they are just in transition but I got a bad feeling about 
this. I hope I am wrong.


Has anyone heard for sure who bought them? I know they were bought from 
talking to tech support but that is all I know and the Internet has 0 
info on a recent sale.


On Sat, May 18, 2024, 6:48 AM Dan Fink via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Mine all went down yesterday at noon MDT. I wonder if this has to do 
with the sale of Outback?


Dan Fink

Owner, Buckville Energy Consulting LLC

IREC Certified Instructor for PV and

Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Avalon

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Hey Darryl,

I got involved with the Schneider Home all in one (same thing as 
Fortress Avalon) Before that I was involved with another Schneider HV 
all in one long before Solark. Omnia failed to get to market. I get the 
hee bee jeebies with that kind of voltage offgrid. The numerous various 
failures of the LG hi voltage batteries.


There is no way to replace the battery without waiting for Fortress to 
help. With 48v, I can go to Costco or Walmart and build a temporary 48v 
bank in 3 hours. Pretty simple requirement that I have. Especially in 
this world!


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-05-14 6:33 pm, Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches wrote:

I am looking at going high voltage as opposed to 48 volts. This is my 
largest battery system, I have a large distance between battery and 
inverter, 40 feet, the cost of wire, 50 kW, at 50 volts is 1000 amps.  
I am thinking this is too big for me.


On Tue, May 14, 2024, 7:29 PM Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:



Hello Wrenches,

I am looking closely at offering the Fortress Avalon system.  I would 
like to hear from anyone that has installed, commissioned and seen 
them work in the field. Pros and cons, all of your thoughts are 
appreciated.


Thanks! ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Avalon

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Huge mistake to me to use high voltage battery.  I am biased for 
offgrid.


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-05-14 5:28 pm, Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches wrote:


Hello Wrenches,

I am looking closely at offering the Fortress Avalon system.  I would 
like to hear from anyone that has installed, commissioned and seen them 
work in the field. Pros and cons, all of your thoughts are appreciated.


Thanks!
___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Discover Xanbus SOC jumpy

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

You probably checked historical events and analysis below.

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-05-03 10:30 am, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches 
wrote:


Kent, Battery monitor is internal to 6650 battery. No bat mon!  
Probably as you said the xanbus comms need a look as Mac said.


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
[1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-05-03 10:24 am, Kent via RE-wrenches wrote:

Mac,

I have a system that does this (or something similar) with all of the 
Insight data a few times every day. I'm pretty sure it is lost data 
resulting from communications drop outs. Internet to the site is via 
StarLink. If you are only seeing this on the SOC data there might be a 
problem with the Xanbus connection to the battery monitor. Since the 
SOC returns to the correct value for the next data packet, I'm pretty 
sure that there is nothing wrong with the battery monitor. Kent 
Osterberg

Blue Mountain Solar

On 5/3/2024 6:54 AM, Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches wrote:
Hello Wrenches,

I have a system that suddenly started seeing quite a few SOC drops and 
blips, causing generator starts.


Here is an example SOC chart:

I plan to head up and apply a firmware update on the batteries, check 
cabling etc but Im curious if anyone has encountered/solved this issue.


Much appreciated.
--

Mac Lewis

"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Discover Xanbus SOC jumpy

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Kent, Battery monitor is internal to 6650 battery. No bat mon!  Probably 
as you said the xanbus comms need a look as Mac said.


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-05-03 10:24 am, Kent via RE-wrenches wrote:


Mac,

I have a system that does this (or something similar) with all of the 
Insight data a few times every day. I'm pretty sure it is lost data 
resulting from communications drop outs. Internet to the site is via 
StarLink. If you are only seeing this on the SOC data there might be a 
problem with the Xanbus connection to the battery monitor. Since the 
SOC returns to the correct value for the next data packet, I'm pretty 
sure that there is nothing wrong with the battery monitor. Kent 
Osterberg

Blue Mountain Solar

On 5/3/2024 6:54 AM, Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches wrote:


Hello Wrenches,

I have a system that suddenly started seeing quite a few SOC drops and 
blips, causing generator starts.


Here is an example SOC chart:

I plan to head up and apply a firmware update on the batteries, check 
cabling etc but Im curious if anyone has encountered/solved this 
issue.


Much appreciated.
--

Mac Lewis

"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Discover AES explosion!

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

The 6650 definitely meets all the UL's, ETLs, and UN's. Probably the 
first one to do this and since Michael said that it is a first for 
Discover, the jury is out until an FA is complete.


Good points by you Larry, but not valid for many thousands of Discover 
AES 6650s.


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-05-03 9:23 am, Starlight via RE-wrenches wrote:


Hi Michael,

For 11 years I've been in the Li battery business. We formerly designed 
and installed over a hundred Li battery based systems, mostly mobile 
installations but UPS and off-grid as well. Since 2018, we no longer do 
installations.  Currently we sell our own Li-ion brand with many 
thousands sold and in use. We have not had any fire or explosion 
claims.


Most Li batteries sold in the US are not UL1973 or ETL certified. Many 
batteries are very cheaply made to have the lowest price. Based on my 
experience I consider any battery not certified as potentially 
dangerous. I don't know if Discover is certified and make no statement 
about them.


An important question is what will an insurance company do if there is 
a claim and the product you install is not certified to these high 
safety standards? Worth considering.


Larry Crutcher
Starlight Power Systems

On May 3, 2024, at 8:21 AM, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Two days ago, one of my clients came home to find the door of his 
powershed blown off its hinges and a smoldering Discover AES. The case 
was still intact and the entire room is coated with a fine 
graphite-like powder. The fire department was unable/unwilling to do 
anything to cool the battery down and it smoldered for a day. 199 
degrees fahrenheit after 18 hours. Discover is taking this seriously 
and their response has been great. They are in contact with the cell 
manufacturer to find a "best practices" for the clean up of the room. 
They also have said that this is a first for them (lucky me).


I'm just curious how rare or common LiFePO 4 explosions are? I've never 
heard of one in the context of residential storage. This has me pretty 
freaked out.


Michael Morningstar

Morningstar Electric Inc
PO Box 1494
Mount Shasta, CA 96067
530-921-0560
CSLB 1116835
mjmornings...@gmail.com

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Discover AES explosion!

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Never heard of one with LFP. The cobalt and Magnesium Lions are 
definitely out there. Was this a 6650 model Michael?

Going to be fun times doing a failure analysis on this one.

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
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text 209 813 0060

On 2024-05-03 8:21 am, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches wrote:

Two days ago, one of my clients came home to find the door of his 
powershed blown off its hinges and a smoldering Discover AES. The case 
was still intact and the entire room is coated with a fine 
graphite-like powder. The fire department was unable/unwilling to do 
anything to cool the battery down and it smoldered for a day. 199 
degrees fahrenheit after 18 hours. Discover is taking this seriously 
and their response has been great. They are in contact with the cell 
manufacturer to find a "best practices" for the clean up of the room. 
They also have said that this is a first for them (lucky me).


I'm just curious how rare or common LiFePO 4 explosions are? I've never 
heard of one in the context of residential storage. This has me pretty 
freaked out.


Michael Morningstar

Morningstar Electric Inc

PO Box 1494

Mount Shasta, CA 96067

530-921-0560

CSLB 1116835

mjmornings...@gmail.com

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Discover Xanbus SOC jumpy

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Which model?  Do you see the same dips in voltage? Probably yes.
Are all the batts the same firmware?
The AES dashboard can be useful for finding a differing module.
No I have not seen this and only have had one bad battery that was 
replaced by AES. Yes check all wiring. Good Luck!


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
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   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
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text 209 813 0060

On 2024-05-03 6:54 am, Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches wrote:


Hello Wrenches,

I have a system that suddenly started seeing quite a few SOC drops and 
blips, causing generator starts.


Here is an example SOC chart:

I plan to head up and apply a firmware update on the batteries, check 
cabling etc but Im curious if anyone has encountered/solved this issue.


Much appreciated.
--

Mac Lewis

"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Grid-Tied Radian Force Discharge

[Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches]

Maverick and Mac

I am using Flextime here so that we are only using Grid Zero mode from
2-6am, when there is no solar coming in. The rest of the time, the system
is in Grid tied mode so that we can take advantage of as much solar as
possible. But the battery bank is two strings of the NSB190 FT Blue+
batteries, for 404AH. The typical load overnight is only about 400watts
from what I can tell through Optics. Since the system is grid tied it is
getting to absorb every day.

There is no Flexnet on this one. When we set it up, I was thinking that the
Flexnet would just give bad SOC readings and confuse the customer since the
batteries are not often cycled. However, it is frustrating that remotely, I
can only see hourly voltage readings, which does not give much detail.
However, I think I just noticed something interesting. I was about to say
that the low reading is not accurate, because yesterday it showed the low
being 49.2V. I noticed right now that the "temperature compensated target
voltage" was 2V lower than the actual voltage.  Optics seems to display the
actual voltage (since I see right now that the batteries are hanging out 2V
above the float setting. Anyway, if the system is using temperature
compensated voltage for the cutoff, then seeing 49.2V was actually the LBCO
cutoff voltage (since the settings was 47.2V). And I had the Grid Zero DOD
V set to 48. So, I had 0.8V difference between the settings, but I need it
to be >2V difference (on a chilly morning).

Also, frustrating, is that these batteries want a 2mV per cell temp
compensation. But the Radian can only do 5mV per cell. So on these cold
mornings, the Radian is probably overcompensating for the cold
temperatures.

Cheers,
Dave

On Fri, Apr 26, 2024 at 7:45 AM Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hello Dave,
>
> Be sure you calibrate the flexnet and the inverter voltage.  My gut
> feeling is that the Delta voltage you have is too tight.  If you have the
> system on Optics, I'd set the LBCO pretty low, then observe how much
> voltage sag (or where your voltage cliff is) you are getting at
> the discharge SOC you are going for, then you can work your LBCO back up.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 25, 2024 at 8:47 PM Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Dave
>>
>> What is the size of the battery bank and what is the typical load, let’s
>> say at night or some other peak time?
>>
>> Bank size, SOC and demand can influence voltage. LBCO at 47.2 could be
>> too high under smaller bank higher load situations.
>>
>> Also, with the AC coupled solar in an off grid case, what is the
>> likelyhood of reaching Absorb daily or at least a couple times a week?
>>
>> The bottom line is to know the likely solar production kWh. The load kWh
>> and try to use just a bit of the battery storage kWh to keep the batteries
>> viable and reduce the electric bill without sacrificing the backup
>> capacity. OpticsRE can help fine tune these settings.
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Maverick
>>
>> Maverick Brown
>> Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006
>> Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc.
>>  • Solar Commander Remote Power
>>  • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection
>> maver...@mavericksolar.com
>> 512-460-9825
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 25, 2024, at 5:57 PM, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> A minor update here. I had the grid zero DOD volts set to 48, and the low
>> battery cut out was set to 47.2v. But the homeowner told me that their
>> loads cut out at some point. Does anyone know whether it is possible that
>> Outback would be using a temperature compensated voltage for one of those
>> setpoints and a non-temperature compensated voltage for the other one?
>>
>> Thanks!
>> -Dave
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 24, 2024, 3:33 PM Dave Tedeyan 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Maverick and Steve,
>>>
>>> Thank you much for pointing me in the right direction here. I was
>>> looking at the Radian setting and not the Mate3S settings. I've decided to
>>> use the flextime schedule to have it go to grid zero mode at night when we
>>> will not be exporting any solar power anyway. It really does not matter in
>>> this case whether the batteries get recharged by the grid or from the AC
>>> coupled solar.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 23, 2024 at 5:25 PM Steve Higgins via RE-wrenches <
>>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes, Grid Zero would work, but the customer w

Re: [RE-wrenches] Grid-Tied Radian Force Discharge

[Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches]

A minor update here. I had the grid zero DOD volts set to 48, and the low
battery cut out was set to 47.2v. But the homeowner told me that their
loads cut out at some point. Does anyone know whether it is possible that
Outback would be using a temperature compensated voltage for one of those
setpoints and a non-temperature compensated voltage for the other one?

Thanks!
-Dave

On Wed, Apr 24, 2024, 3:33 PM Dave Tedeyan  wrote:

> Maverick and Steve,
>
> Thank you much for pointing me in the right direction here. I was looking
> at the Radian setting and not the Mate3S settings. I've decided to use the
> flextime schedule to have it go to grid zero mode at night when we will not
> be exporting any solar power anyway. It really does not matter in this case
> whether the batteries get recharged by the grid or from the AC coupled
> solar.
>
> Cheers,
> Dave
>
> On Tue, Apr 23, 2024 at 5:25 PM Steve Higgins via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Yes, Grid Zero would work, but the customer wouldn't be selling power to
>> the utility.   You could program the Radan to sell more power by lowering
>> the sell voltage. I would get aggressive with it for at least 20-30 cycles
>> to see if you can recover some capacity. Ideally, to recover lost capacity
>> from lead batteries, you want to do 50-80% cycling for at least 5-10
>> cycles.
>>
>> I would be cautious about HBX mode, its issue, and why this mode should
>> have died with the old Trace Eng inverters... HBX mode tends to kill
>> battery banks if left there too long or you are not getting the battery to
>> 100%. The problem with HBX mode is that there is no way to control absorb
>> timers, so the batteries get to the 80-85% range but never get to full; if
>> the batteries are lead, this is going to create sulfation problems, and if
>> AGM will end up in severe swelling.If I remember correctly, you can
>> adjust the delay timer for HBX, which should be equal to the programmed
>> Absrob timers, but I don't know if they killed this in the new firmware.
>>
>>
>>
>> <http://www.rollsbattery.com> <http://www.rollsbattery.com>
>> <http://www.rollsbattery.com> <http://www.rollsbattery.com>
>> <http://www.rollsbattery.com> <http://www.rollsbattery.com>
>> <http://www.rollsbattery.com> <http://www.rollsbattery.com>
>> <http://www.rollsbattery.com> <http://www.rollsbattery.com>
>> <http://www.rollsbattery.com> <http://www.rollsbattery.com>
>> <http://www.rollsbattery.com> <http://www.rollsbattery.com>
>> <http://www.rollsbattery.com> <http://www.rollsbattery.com>
>> <http://www.rollsbattery.com> <http://www.rollsbattery.com>
>> Steve Higgins ⋅ Technical Services Manager
>> t +1.902.597.4020  m +1.206.790.5840
>> f +1.902.597.8447  e st...@surrette.com
>> <http://www.facebook.com/RollsBattery>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/user/RollsBattery>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/RollsBatteryEngineering>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/RollsBatteryEngineering>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/RollsBatteryEngineering>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/rolls-battery-engineering>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/rolls-battery-engineering>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/rolls-battery-engineering>
>> <http://www.instagram.com/RollsBattery>
>> <http://www.instagram.com/RollsBattery>
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>>
>> On Tue, Apr 23, 2024 at 1:53 PM Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> You can do it in one of several easy ways.
>>>
>>> HPX mode on the Mate. High Battery transfer. When the battery voltage
>>> and/or SOC is above the setpoint drop the grid. When the battery voltage or
>>> state of charge goes below the setpoint pick up the grid. This case the
>>> Mate  is doing the driving.
>>>
>>> Also available is Grid Zero mode where the inserter decides to zero the
>>> loads based on battery voltage and AC amp load. The

Re: [RE-wrenches] XW Pro Firmware 2.04 melting devices

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

To be fare, Schneider does tell you to follow the commissioning guide. 
It should be in the firmware though and should be a warning.  It is only 
an issue with older XWP BTW.


Let us know what you end up doing Kevin please.

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-04-25 11:44 am, Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches wrote:


Hi Chris,

Thanks. Ugh it's even more irritating to learn this is obviously a 
known issue. Yes, I tested gen in bypass mode system off and it is all 
within spec, forgot to mention that.


Kevin

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf 
Of Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches

Sent: April-25-24 11:30 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Chris Sparadeo 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] XW Pro Firmware 2.04 melting devices

Hi Kevin,

Let me chime in here. Last year I experienced something nearly 
identical to what you are describing. 3 ea. XW pros in an off-grid 
application. Things were working fine, but wanted to upgrade firmware 
for a comms issue I was having with closed loop BMS and Insight. After 
the 2.04 upgrade, when the generator would charge the system, voltage 
would slowly creep up and after about 20 or so minutes, voltage would 
hit around 250 VAC with a terrible high pitched grinding noise coming 
from the inverters. This issue burned 3 of the homeowners UPS and 
several LED fixtures.


I was 99% sure this was a generator issue. After weeks of tech support 
calls, a new voltage regulator and multiple return service visits... 
and eventually one brand new generator... I had to come back to the 
homeowner with my tail between my legs and let them know that it wasn't 
generator related. Even after reverting back to the old firmware, it 
seems as though the software eventually affected the hardware. Long 
story short, homeowner was done with dealing with Schneider and we 
ended up swapping the Conext gear for 2ea. Sol-Ark 15ks and the system 
has been issue free for almost a year. Both generator run like a top.


Sort of embarrassing to re-read this, but if I can help someone avoid 
the headache I went through, it's worth it. One easy test method is to 
deenergize your entire system, turn off batteries and manually bypass 
your inverters. Let the generator power the loads directly and keep a 
close eye on your generator frequency, voltage and THD. In my case, I 
found that the generator behaved well in bypass and terribly when the 
inverters were present.


Good luck on this one!

Chris Sparadeo

On Thu, Apr 25, 2024 at 1:51 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


That sounds like a generator problem.  I've seen many gen sets put out 
a horrible waveform under load, when battery charging.  The waveform, 
(if you have an O-scope) usually has a spike on the front of the wave, 
and then the wave flattens significantly after.  The peak should be 169 
v on a 120 vac RMS sinewave.  I've seen it as low as 135v on crappy 
generators that are over loaded.   THD is a great thing to check, but 
also check your peak voltage, if you have a quick capture feature on 
your meter.


It also could be related to altitude, gen sets can perform badly when 
they can't get enough air.   You didn't mention gen set model, or 
whether the frequency was a solid 60 hz.  I've seen bad things happen 
when the frequency got out of spec too.  I'm guessing a bad voltage 
regulator on the gen set.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar

On 4/25/2024 11:24 AM, Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches wrote:

Hi Wrenches,

Curious if anyone else has seen this issue.

New XW Pro off-grid system installed Dec 2023. Pretty standard config 
for us, XW Pro, 5 kW PV, 50 kWh UnigyII battery, 8 kW high quality 
diesel generator. This system ran fine all winter long - powering 
customer's big RV they were living in while the house is built, Shop, 
computer controlled outdoor wood boiler, domestic loads + 3 person 
construction crew. Gen ran daily on auto start as we don't get much sun 
Dec - Feb. No issues reported.


Couple weeks back I did a new system check up. All performing well, 
happy client. Part of that service I upgraded the XW firmware from 1.09 
to 2.04, and insight from 1.16 to 1.18. Gave the system a quick check, 
ran gen. Lots of sun now, batteries full so didn't do a long generator 
test. Yes I set the region codes for off-grid.


A week later, while I was out of town and it was not so sunny so gen 
running, client and their electrician called me in a panic. Two smoke 
detectors had literally melted, as well as several dimmable LED 
fixtures all failed. Electrician replaced the burned up devices, only 
to have the same thing repeat a few days later. Talking with them it 
was only when the generator was running there were issues. Told them to 
lock out gen and I will get there when I can.


Once back I attended site, fired up gen, and could hear the inverter 
sounding terrible durin

Re: [RE-wrenches] XW Pro Firmware 2.04 melting devices

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Good advice Michael!  I had one that the grid code got set by FW and 
reverting did not help. Had to start fresh.


I certainly would try the revert as it is so much easier.   There just 
is too much grid firmware being changed and it does


not need to be done offgrid.  I beg people and Schneider, like Eric to 
just have an offgrid FW as a choice


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-04-25 11:18 am, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches wrote:

Go back to V1.11. I had the same thing happen with an XWPRO and a 
Central Maine Diesel with a DynaGen controller. Frequency and Peak to 
Peak was less than perfect and the inverter, IF it would qualify the 
power, sounded like a garbage disposal. Eric B at Schneider suggested 
reverting back to the old firmware and that did the trick. Like yours, 
my client is pissed and wants me to replace the inverter because he 
thinks it was compromised. He might be right. A colleague of mine ran 
into the same issue which was fixed with old firmware.


BTW, no one in tech support, after many calls ever suggested using the 
old firmware.


On Thu, Apr 25, 2024 at 10:51 AM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


That sounds like a generator problem.  I've seen many gen sets put out 
a horrible waveform under load, when battery charging.  The waveform, 
(if you have an O-scope) usually has a spike on the front of the wave, 
and then the wave flattens significantly after.  The peak should be 169 
v on a 120 vac RMS sinewave.  I've seen it as low as 135v on crappy 
generators that are over loaded.   THD is a great thing to check, but 
also check your peak voltage, if you have a quick capture feature on 
your meter.


It also could be related to altitude, gen sets can perform badly when 
they can't get enough air.   You didn't mention gen set model, or 
whether the frequency was a solid 60 hz.  I've seen bad things happen 
when the frequency got out of spec too.  I'm guessing a bad voltage 
regulator on the gen set.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar

On 4/25/2024 11:24 AM, Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches wrote:
Hi Wrenches,

Curious if anyone else has seen this issue.

New XW Pro off-grid system installed Dec 2023. Pretty standard config 
for us, XW Pro, 5 kW PV, 50 kWh UnigyII battery, 8 kW high quality 
diesel generator. This system ran fine all winter long - powering 
customer's big RV they were living in while the house is built, Shop, 
computer controlled outdoor wood boiler, domestic loads + 3 person 
construction crew. Gen ran daily on auto start as we don't get much sun 
Dec - Feb. No issues reported.


Couple weeks back I did a new system check up. All performing well, 
happy client. Part of that service I upgraded the XW firmware from 1.09 
to 2.04, and insight from 1.16 to 1.18. Gave the system a quick check, 
ran gen. Lots of sun now, batteries full so didn't do a long generator 
test. Yes I set the region codes for off-grid.


A week later, while I was out of town and it was not so sunny so gen 
running, client and their electrician called me in a panic. Two smoke 
detectors had literally melted, as well as several dimmable LED 
fixtures all failed. Electrician replaced the burned up devices, only 
to have the same thing repeat a few days later. Talking with them it 
was only when the generator was running there were issues. Told them to 
lock out gen and I will get there when I can.


Once back I attended site, fired up gen, and could hear the inverter 
sounding terrible during gen charging. Lights flickering bad, and I 
personally verified the smoke detectors beeping and getting warm and 
the house smelled like burned plastic. I hooked up my power quality 
analyser and could see the THD gradually building to over 36%. Gen 
voltage was at 125/250V a bit high, so adjusted that, but no change. By 
reducing the charge rate on the XW Pro to 50% was able to get the THD 
down around 12% and less light flicker. But it's still too high. Image 
attached shows THD with gen on original programing, then at reduced 
charge rate.


Have now gone from a happy client to a pissed off client threatening 
legal action for endangering their lives & a bill from the electrician. 
Ugh. Having a hard time explaining this to the client why a system 
previously working fine went sideways so badly. Old guy blames the 
"darned computer stuff" and he's not wrong with that opinion.


At another site, similar config but larger system with dual XW's that I 
upgraded to 2.04 firmware remotely few days ago and now the two 
inverters are literally fighting each other under generator charge - 
one load building to +6 kW and one (minus)6 kW.


Sure makes me reluctant to upgrade firmware on systems that are working 
fine.


Any suggestions?

Kevin

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Grid-Tied Radian Force Discharge

[Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches]

Maverick and Steve,

Thank you much for pointing me in the right direction here. I was looking
at the Radian setting and not the Mate3S settings. I've decided to use the
flextime schedule to have it go to grid zero mode at night when we will not
be exporting any solar power anyway. It really does not matter in this case
whether the batteries get recharged by the grid or from the AC coupled
solar.

Cheers,
Dave

On Tue, Apr 23, 2024 at 5:25 PM Steve Higgins via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Yes, Grid Zero would work, but the customer wouldn't be selling power to
> the utility.   You could program the Radan to sell more power by lowering
> the sell voltage. I would get aggressive with it for at least 20-30 cycles
> to see if you can recover some capacity. Ideally, to recover lost capacity
> from lead batteries, you want to do 50-80% cycling for at least 5-10
> cycles.
>
> I would be cautious about HBX mode, its issue, and why this mode should
> have died with the old Trace Eng inverters... HBX mode tends to kill
> battery banks if left there too long or you are not getting the battery to
> 100%. The problem with HBX mode is that there is no way to control absorb
> timers, so the batteries get to the 80-85% range but never get to full; if
> the batteries are lead, this is going to create sulfation problems, and if
> AGM will end up in severe swelling.If I remember correctly, you can
> adjust the delay timer for HBX, which should be equal to the programmed
> Absrob timers, but I don't know if they killed this in the new firmware.
>
>
>
> <http://www.rollsbattery.com> <http://www.rollsbattery.com>
> <http://www.rollsbattery.com> <http://www.rollsbattery.com>
> <http://www.rollsbattery.com> <http://www.rollsbattery.com>
> <http://www.rollsbattery.com> <http://www.rollsbattery.com>
> <http://www.rollsbattery.com> <http://www.rollsbattery.com>
> <http://www.rollsbattery.com> <http://www.rollsbattery.com>
> <http://www.rollsbattery.com> <http://www.rollsbattery.com>
> <http://www.rollsbattery.com> <http://www.rollsbattery.com>
> <http://www.rollsbattery.com> <http://www.rollsbattery.com>
> Steve Higgins ⋅ Technical Services Manager
> t +1.902.597.4020  m +1.206.790.5840
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>
> On Tue, Apr 23, 2024 at 1:53 PM Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> You can do it in one of several easy ways.
>>
>> HPX mode on the Mate. High Battery transfer. When the battery voltage
>> and/or SOC is above the setpoint drop the grid. When the battery voltage or
>> state of charge goes below the setpoint pick up the grid. This case the
>> Mate  is doing the driving.
>>
>> Also available is Grid Zero mode where the inserter decides to zero the
>> loads based on battery voltage and AC amp load. Then you would set the
>> ReBulk set point on the inverter charger to trigger charging the batteries
>> instead of zero AC loads.
>>
>> The third choice is to program something called FlexTime where you set
>> the schedule of the AC input mode from grid tide to red zero or off grid,
>> etc.
>>
>> It’s the system is on OpticsRE, you can adjust the settings fine-tune to
>> get the best performance out of those Northstar batteries.
>>
>> I just decommissioned a 36 battery group of Northstar batteries after 13
>> years and most of them are still viable.
>>
>> As a precaution, For AC coupling, I also install a high battery AUX port
>> controlled relay that drops the AC c

Re: [RE-wrenches] 120 Vac and 12Vdc mixed distribution system

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

How about just buy an RV?

Seriously the reason Jason I am Leary is because of the experiences I 
have had with what I call Offgrid Squalor.


Just have to be careful especially these days of druggies, people in 
vans with no windows, ex paramilitary that went bad,

and you get the picture.

If you know the person that is the way to keep you and your loved ones 
safe. Money does talk sometimes and the lack can of it

can be a warning.

Also as mentioned, these types of situations, are what gets my 
accountant telling me if you do not charge enough,

no one will listen to your advice.

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-04-24 10:51 am, John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches wrote:


Jason,
Just using the converter works fine. They are considered a battery 
charger or a regulated power supply. I am currently running that way 
now with the battery cables going nowhere.  I was thinking of putting 
the battery back in the system just for triple redundancy when my 
inverter hits low battery cutoff voltage on a cold winter night and no 
fuel for the generator (or it won't start).

My Iota DLS puts out a regulated 13.4 volts up to 30 amps.

John

On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 8:25 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Ah ha! I didn't consider using a small 12V battery with a charger. I 
was thinking of just using a 120V -> 12V converter to handle the DC 
loads. Is the 12V battery really necessary, or can I just power the DC 
loads directly with a converter? If I just have lights and fans on the 
DC system, the load should be pretty minimal.


I could use a separate 12V battery, but I would like to eliminate that 
cost and complexity if possible.


And yeah, I am not considering this a money making opportunity. It's 
really just a challenge to ward off boredom from the daily grind.


Jason Szumlanski
Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208

On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 8:01 AM John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:

Jason,
I have a customer with the same situation except he already has a 12 V 
VFX inverter,  He has a sunfrost fridge and other small loads with a 
very fancy custom control board
originally set up to handle AC and DC systems.  We are adding a lot 
more solar and I was considering a dual battery system but the owner 
didn't like that idea.  We are going with and Iota 12v power supply (i 
use one at my house for my sunfrost) to power up all his DC loads and 
will be adding a large 48 V battery bank and over 4Kw of solar using a 
VFXR3648 directly in place of the 12V inverter.  He complained that the 
existing inverter would not handle all his current AC loads very well.  
My own house is fully wired for 12VDC as well as AC (lots of #10 copper 
not being used) and I have been considering getting a small LFP 12V 
battery to put back on by DC System. Then use the Iota as a secondary 
charging method with some of my large stash of older modules hooked up 
for 12V direct with C40 charge controller to recreate my original 
system just for kicks. I'm only using DC for my Sunfrost and one 
"emergency light" in the livingroom right now.  For your customer, a 
small LFP 12v battery (approximately $500 or less) to replace his old 
battery bankm and more larger ones for the new AC side with 48V 
inverter fed by his generator or through an Iota 48 V charger ifusing a 
smaller non charging inverter. Unlike Dave, I like these challenges. 
Maybe thats why I never seem to make money.!!


John Blittersdorf
offgridvermont.com [3]

On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 7:22 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Fortunately, the owner is pretty handy and is willing to live with any 
negative consequences. That said, I want to offer him something as 
simple and bulletproof as possible. I am walking into this with eyes 
wide open, for sure.


Jason Szumlanski
Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208

On Tue, Apr 23, 2024 at 5:47 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via 
RE-wrenches  wrote:


Not being helpful but I  walk away from these.  It will come back to 
you.


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
[1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-04-23 2:40 pm, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:

I have an off-grid client who is working on replacing old equipment at 
a cabin. He has a lot of 12 volt distribution in the house for 
lighting, fans, and a 12 volt refrigerator. He also has 120 volt AC 
loads that run through a separate distribution panel where the only 

Re: [RE-wrenches] 120 Vac and 12Vdc mixed distribution system

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Not being helpful but I  walk away from these.  It will come back to 
you.


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-04-23 2:40 pm, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:

I have an off-grid client who is working on replacing old equipment at 
a cabin. He has a lot of 12 volt distribution in the house for 
lighting, fans, and a 12 volt refrigerator. He also has 120 volt AC 
loads that run through a separate distribution panel where the only 
source is a 2000 Watt Honda generator. There is no inverter present. 
The batteries are charged through a Trace C40.


He currently has a few ancient solar panels and a struggling Bank of 
AGM batteries. It's time for an upgrade. I can easily supply enough PV 
power for what he needs. He currently has a 9 kilowatt hour battery 
capacity that he was happy with when the batteries operated optimally. 
Nonetheless, I would probably future-proof him with a 10 to 15 kilowatt 
hour LiPo to double or triple his usable capacity.


For convenience, obviously it would be nice to have an inverter to 
eliminate or reduce the generator requirement. But he seems committed 
to keeping his 12 volt distribution because it would be costly to 
replace fixtures. I think he would consider replacing the 12 volt 
refrigerator if he has an inverter.


He definitely wants LiPo batteries.

I don't like the idea of 12 volt direct from a battery plus connecting 
an inverter to that same battery. It is going to be hard to measure and 
monitor things.


I am thinking about using a 48 volt battery with a single phase 120 
volt inverter, getting him to change to a 120 volt refrigerator, and 
using a DC converter to give him somewhere in the range of 100 amps at 
12 volts for his existing DC lighting and fan loads. Is this a bad 
idea? Should I stick with a 12 volt battery system? He does have a tiny 
12 volt pressure pump which might be an issue for the converter. I'm 
not sure. I am a bit worried about the efficiency loss and capacity of 
DC converters and not sure how to size it.


Jason Szumlanski
Florida Solar Design Group

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Re: [RE-wrenches] speaking of batteries

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

It depends on how the BMS shares with the new BMS. A state of life 
measurement, the charge algorithm, and ? has to account for this for 
them to charge and discharge well together.


Pretty safe to say one year for many makes of battery.   Kind of like 
bussbar use in large systems,  is a way to think about this.


A good battery system will know and log this also for warranty.

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-04-23 2:03 pm, jay via RE-wrenches wrote:


HI All

Speaking of batteries  I wonder what you all make of this.

I was reading the Fortress battery manual and it says they don't 
recommend adding new lithium batteries to older lithium batteries if 
the age is over 1 year difference.


Thoughts?

thanks
jay
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[RE-wrenches] Grid-Tied Radian Force Discharge

[Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches]

Hi All,

I have an AC coupled Radian that is used to back up certain loads when the
grid is down. It is paired with the Northstar Blue (Outback) batteries. The
system sits in float nearly all the time. During a recent grid outage, the
batteries had less than half the capacity that I would have expected, and
they are only about 3.5 years old with very few cycles on them.

I tried to talk to Outback about it, which seems to not be possible
anymore. I did talk to Northstar, and they recommend not leaving the
batteries in float all the time.

I am wondering if anyone knows of a way to force the Radian to
automatically discharge the batteries to a certain voltage ideally once a
week, but could do daily. Essentially, I would like to utilize a time of
use schedule where I can force the radian to not use the grid and just use
the battery to power the loads for a little while. Ideally this would be
automatic, and not require the customer to go through the grid breaker
every once in a while. It seems that from the manual, I need to keep the
Radian in Grid Tie mode in order for it to be able to sell excess PV back
to the grid. Any ideas?

Thanks!
-Dave

-- 
[image: Logo] <https://www.sungineersolar.com/>
Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
Owner | Sungineer Solar
p: he | him | his
a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Midnite new inverter

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

I wish bob and the boyz good luck on this product. Always support North 
American companies!!


I do not have much experience in the all in ones, but the one thing I 
would look for is how it responds to imbalance
on split phase loads. The bad experiences on (won't say the Chinese name 
of inverter) was it had trouble starting a fire pump
that was 120vac. it also had trouble with large 120vac air compressors. 
Even worse, not only did it have trouble starting
the load, it shut down the inverter.  I would not want that for sure it 
the fire was raging up the hill.


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-04-10 9:02 pm, Nick A Lucchese via RE-wrenches wrote:

I was under the same impression as David. At one point when I looked 
into it all the electrical specifications appeared identical. Lux isn't 
made by Deye? Ripping off designs within China isn't just exclusive to 
the US? Good ole inverter manufacturer family incest? Does the main 
difference only relate to AGS controls or something along those lines? 
Even that is within the Lux products, Envy and EG4? I'm not into either 
personally but was dragged into a Solark system two years ago. Doing my 
best to keep my back strong with transformer based inverters until I 
can support Midnite.


Nick

On Apr 10, 2024, at 10:00 AM, jay via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Hi David,

I'm going to disagree.
The fortress and EG4 are made by LUX.
It says so right on the cover.
And I've talked to Fortress about this.

Sol Ark is made by Deye

Jay

On Apr 10, 2024, at 10:12 AM, david quattro  
wrote:


I have not installed an Fortress yet, but I know they are made by Deye 
(same Chinese original manufacturer as SolArk inverters)
Here is a link for an excellent instructional by Steve Higgins @ Rolls 
-  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJqBULN9MgI&pp=ygUWcm9sbHMgc3VycmV0dGUgaGlnZ2lucw%3D%3D
This assumes that Envy comes with the same programming shortcoming as 
SolArk, I don't know. In order to effectively use a SolArk with lead 
acid batteries you have trick it. This process takes several iterations 
checking specific gravity, which means multiple site visits stretched 
over perhaps a couple months. The Absorb setting is ineffectual, so 
Steve's solution is to employ the Equalize setting to actually achieve 
Absorption. Carefully record the settings (voltage, duration, and 
frequency) that deliver a consistent specific gravity in range.  On the 
rare occasions you actually need to equalize, you do it in person. When 
equalization is complete you return the settings back to your curated 
values.


On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 7:28 AM jay via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:
Can you explain what changes the eg4 18 inverter has vs the Envy as to 
LA programming?


To me the Envy has a big advantage due to it having AGS warm up/cool 
down that the EG4 does not.


Jay


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Mate3s error vs. event log

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Hi Kirk,

It has been a long time since I used Optics and not sure if this will 
work but here goes. A few years back Schneider came up
with a way to hard wire a tablet for a graphic shot of the system that 
the user does not have to do anything. It is on 24/7.


  I have a few older clients that need this. You would have to have 
optics working. Below is a video on how to do this with a Samsung tablet 
from Eric Bentsen.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuGcZafueic&t=280s

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-04-01 12:08 pm, Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches wrote:


Hello All,

I have a customer with a OB Radian GS8048A, grid tied, which logs a 
"charged parms met" message regularly. When it does, the event log LED 
on the 3s starts blinking. My customer thinks it's an error, and calls 
me. I Wish I could somehow defeat this event, and any non-error, from 
blinking the event LED for everyone's sanity.


Charged parms met is not an error, but it's crying fire in a theater to 
have this annoyance occurring. It happens several times a week. Is 
there any way to keep non-errors from flashing the LED?


OB tech support is starting to have long lead times, so I am asking 
here first. Thanks.

--

Kirk Herander / kirkh@vermont.solar

Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC

_Celebrating our 33st Anniversary 1991-2024!!_

dba Vermont Solar Engineering

802.559.1225
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Re: [RE-wrenches] AEE closing down operations

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

For me, it was changing policy to not taking my clients credit card with 
pre-approval and not taking their check after it cleared their bank.


Too many choices out there.

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-03-28 1:46 pm, Richard Nicol via RE-wrenches wrote:

Probably too many of us stopped using them when they partnered with Sun 
Run.


Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 28, 2024, at 4:27 PM, Jeremy Coxon via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


I'm not going to editorialize about this, other than to say - what a 
damn shame to get this note in my inbox today.  19 years I've been 
buying from them and I'm sure some you on this list for much longer.  
Talk about losing sight of the mission.


<8c86e00d-c831-fc63-debe-484f5b9af308.jpg>

Dear Valued Customer,

We hope this message finds you well. It is with a heavy heart that we 
reach out to share an important update regarding the future of AEE 
Solar. After careful consideration, we've made the difficult decision 
to wind down AEE's operations over the next 36 days, with a tentative 
closing date of May 3rd, 2024. Please be aware that this date may be 
subject to change, and we will keep you informed of any updates.


As a result, we are offering attractive clearance pricing on the 
majority of our inventory over the next month, which we encourage you 
to take advantage of.


We understand that this news might come as a surprise. Our Customer 
Support Team and Territory Sales Managers are available to address any 
questions or concerns you may have during this time. We are committed 
to transparency and will keep you informed throughout the process, 
including confirmation of the final closing date, well in advance.


If you purchase SnapNrack products from AEE, please reach out to your 
Territory Sales Manager to explore opportunities to purchase directly 
from SnapNrack going forward.


We want to express our sincere gratitude for your ongoing support. It 
has been a privilege serving you, and we wish you continued success. 
We look forward to serving you during this wind-down period.


Sincerely,

The AEE Solar Team

Jeremy Coxon NABCEP
Certified MWBE
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15K AC Output

[Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches]

I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that most inverter/chargers
are either being an inverter or a charger at any given time, but not both.
So, once the inverter sees the AC voltage from the generator, then it will
switch to being a charger and use the generator AC power to charge the
batteries and run the loads. So it will never be passing through generator
power and supplying power from the batteries/PV at the same time. I would
think that with a call to Sol-Ark you should be able to verify this for
sure, unless someone else here can verify.

But also, I would size the conductors for 1.25 * available amps, since it
could be continuous. So you might be able to get away with 62.5 * 4 * 1.25
= 313A rated conductors.

Cheers,
Dave

On Tue, Mar 26, 2024 at 5:28 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I am going to have a quad-stack of Sol-Ark 15K for an off-grid 120/240V
> system with a 150A generator. I know the max real power is 62.5A each
> inverter including battery and PV. That would be 62.5A x 4 = 250A total. I
> intend to connect the output of the 4 inverters together with a 5-port
> Polaris tap, with the output of the Polaris Tap going to a 400A main lug
> only panelboard.
>
> My question revolves around the 200A passthrough capability for the
> generator, which is 150A max output and would be connected to the Grid
> input on each inverter. Since each inverter would need to handle the full
> pass-through current, that would require minimum 150A conductors on the
> input side of each inverter. I am under the impression that the inverters
> can supplement the "grid" or generator in this case if the current exceeds
> the available input. That means the inverter would have 150A of input plus
> 62.5A  of inverter power for a total of 212.5A. But there is a 200A load
> OCPD, so I could size the load conductors from each inverter for 200A.
>
> Obviously the 4 inverters can only pass through 150A from the generator in
> total, which would probably be split among them, but could go through a
> single unit if the rest fail.
>
> Now, is it possible for each inverter to output 62.5A each PLUS 150A of
> generator power spread across them for a total of 400A? That is important
> because I would need to size the combined output conductors for 400A if
> that is the case.
>
> I guess I'm not clear on how Sol-Ark 15K handles grid/generator
> assist/supplement. It does not seem to be documented clearly.
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Florida Solar Design Group
>
>
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p: he | him | his
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Evaluating battery health

[Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches]

Hi William,

Thinking out loud here, and I am guessing that there are reasons why not to
do this. But what about putting a voltage tester across each battery and
running a quick test?
I mention this because just a couple days ago, I went to check on a grid
tied battery backup system where capacity was much less than expected. It
is two strings of the Outback Northstar Blue+ batteries with a Radian
inverter. There should be about 9kwh of usable energy at 50% DOD. I was
able to get the data logs and found that on a recent grid outage the
inverter put out about 3kWh of energy before it shut off loads when the
batteries got to 48V. These batteries are only about 3.5 years old. Their
resting voltages were all pretty close (although, they were only resting -
not floating - for about 10 minutes)

But then I put a 100A battery tester across each battery. While most of
them dropped from about 13.8V to about 12.8V, I found one that dropped to
11V. There was also another that dropped to about 12.3. So, those two
batteries seem suspect to me. This is not a perfect method, but seemed to
quickly identify a couple batteries with issues.

Cheers,
Dave


On Sat, Mar 9, 2024 at 3:01 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Friends:
>
>
>
> Evaluating the state of health of a battery array is one concept I
> struggle with.
>
>
>
> It pretty easy with flooded batteries—charge them up and check SG.  Sealed
> batteries are different.
>
>
>
> I do track “at-rest” voltages of discrete 2 volt VRLA cells.  This
> generally can’t be done for monoblock batteries.  I see trending towards
> greater deviation over time.  For example a UnigyII array I am currently
> working with is about 8 years old and has been worked hard.  Recent at-rest
> voltage readings show a deviation of 8%.  Four years ago it was 2%.  How
> much deviation is too much?
>
>
>
> The O&M manual for UnigyII batteries suggests making ohmic measurements.
> My research indicates this requires a rather expensive meter, such as a
> Hioki 3554.  I suppose it may be cheap of me to not invest in one of these
> meters and I am still considering doing so.  Have any of you worked with
> one of these meters?
>
>
>
> Here is another idea:  As we have discussed here, I am not a fan of
> battery monitor modules in a battery inverter BOS package.  I am an Outback
> integrator so the option is the FNDC.  The FNDC will generate SOC values
> which are often inaccurate and confuse my clients.  These inaccuracies
> occur when the programmed efficiency does not reflect an accurate value.
> The eff will change over time, with different ambient temperature and at
> different states of charge.  (Another problem with the FNDC is it has only
> 3 shunt inputs.  This can be difficult to implement if you have a large
> battery array and many inverters and charge controllers.)
>
>
>
> My idea is to turn this concept around.  Instead of calculating SOC one
> could use the ratio of AH in to AH out over time to determine the actual
> efficiency of a battery array.  Battery efficiency seems like as good an
> indicator of battery health as any other value.  It is easy to obtain data
> files for the FNDC in CSV format.  (I suspect this is kind of like what is
> done internally for the Sunny Island battery health reading.)
>
>
>
> Have any of you pondered these questions?  I am interested in your
> thoughts.
>
>
>
> TIA.
>
>
>
> William
>
>
>
> Miller Solar
>
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>
> 805-438-5600
>
> www.millersolar.com
>
> CA Lic. 773985
>
>
>
>
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Owner | Sungineer Solar
p: he | him | his
a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Insurance for solar design and inspections

[Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches]

Thanks for the recommendations to shop around. Seems like maybe this does
not need to be such a huge investment.

And Howie, I was also under the impression that the E&O would cover
inspections. We were just looking into an inspection policy instead of an
E&O because our agent said that it would be far less expensive and this all
came up around an inspection that I was planning on doing.

Cheers,
Dave

On Mon, Mar 11, 2024 at 8:21 AM Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I have carried E&O for much less. I think the recommendation to shop
> around is a good one.  NABECP I THINK, has some leads on firms for this.
>
>
> Chris
> On 3/10/2024 6:23 PM, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I have an insurance question and am very curious about how others deal
> with this, or don't. People will sometimes ask us to either do some design
> work for a system that we will not be installing, or to inspect a system
> and give my professional opinion about it. These are two separate work
> situations.
>
> Recently, our insurance agent brought it to our attention that we should
> have insurance specifically for these kinds of work, and it is not
> something that is covered under our general liability (contractors)
> insurance.
>
> Their recommendation for design work is to get "professional liability"
> (errors and omissions) insurance. Even though I may do one or two designs a
> year, we are looking at a roughly $12,000 policy. This would be meant to
> cover us if I make a mistake in the design that leads to some sort of
> failure or fire.
>
> Their recommendation for the inspection type work is to get essentially a
> home inspector insurance policy for about $2400 per year. Again, this is
> something that we do a handful of times per year. This insurance is meant
> to cover us if I inspect a system and miss something that then ends up
> being a problem or a hazard.
>
> With a brief conversation with a lawyer acquaintance, he thought that I
> may be fine with out these insurances. It sounded like I should have
> something in my service contracts that would essentially say something like
> "we will do this work to the best of our ability", and then if something
> does go wrong and the homeowner takes us to court, it is upon them to prove
> that we missed something that a reasonable person would have caught. My
> business manager does not like this because we could still have lots of
> lawyer fees and have to show up in court if we were to get sued, even if
> the problem was not caused by a lack of diligence on our part.
>
> So my question to all of you is, do you have these insurances? Or do you
> just not do designs and inspections unless you are actually turning some
> wrenches on the site so that your general liability insurance covers your
> work? Or, is this a case of our insurance agent putting ungrounded fears in
> our head?
>
> Thanks for your thoughts.
> Cheers,
> Dave
>
> --
> [image: Logo] <https://www.sungineersolar.com/>
> Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
> Owner | Sungineer Solar
> p: he | him | his
> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
> w: www.sungineersolar.com <http://www.sungineersolar.com/>
> c: (607) 270-0370
>
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> --
>Christopher Warfel
>   ENTECH Engineering Inc.
>PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
>   401-477-5773
> [image: EE Logo] <https://entech-engineering.com/Home/default.php>
>
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[RE-wrenches] Insurance for solar design and inspections

[Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches]

Hi All,

I have an insurance question and am very curious about how others deal with
this, or don't. People will sometimes ask us to either do some design work
for a system that we will not be installing, or to inspect a system and
give my professional opinion about it. These are two separate work
situations.

Recently, our insurance agent brought it to our attention that we should
have insurance specifically for these kinds of work, and it is not
something that is covered under our general liability (contractors)
insurance.

Their recommendation for design work is to get "professional liability"
(errors and omissions) insurance. Even though I may do one or two designs a
year, we are looking at a roughly $12,000 policy. This would be meant to
cover us if I make a mistake in the design that leads to some sort of
failure or fire.

Their recommendation for the inspection type work is to get essentially a
home inspector insurance policy for about $2400 per year. Again, this is
something that we do a handful of times per year. This insurance is meant
to cover us if I inspect a system and miss something that then ends up
being a problem or a hazard.

With a brief conversation with a lawyer acquaintance, he thought that I may
be fine with out these insurances. It sounded like I should have something
in my service contracts that would essentially say something like "we will
do this work to the best of our ability", and then if something does go
wrong and the homeowner takes us to court, it is upon them to prove that we
missed something that a reasonable person would have caught. My business
manager does not like this because we could still have lots of lawyer fees
and have to show up in court if we were to get sued, even if the problem
was not caused by a lack of diligence on our part.

So my question to all of you is, do you have these insurances? Or do you
just not do designs and inspections unless you are actually turning some
wrenches on the site so that your general liability insurance covers your
work? Or, is this a case of our insurance agent putting ungrounded fears in
our head?

Thanks for your thoughts.
Cheers,
Dave

-- 
[image: Logo] <https://www.sungineersolar.com/>
Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
Owner | Sungineer Solar
p: he | him | his
a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
w: www.sungineersolar.com <http://www.sungineersolar.com/>
c: (607) 270-0370
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Re: [RE-wrenches] TPM Search

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Spendy for the right client, Jeff and Kyle still support/sell the best 
trackers out there.

https://www.wattsun.com/

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [2]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [3]  [2]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-03-08 3:27 pm, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches wrote:


Another one out there that is worth looking at is MT Solar.
Cheers,
Dave

On Fri, Mar 8, 2024, 5:51 PM Kent via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:

Jeremy,

I think the Solar RacksWorks TPMs are virtually identical to the DPW 
TPMs. My go to TPM is General Specialties [1]; They are a solid design 
and I think they are easier to assemble. They also have UL listed TPMs 
but they have top mounting clamps, and for the life of me I don't 
understand the logic of of a top mount clamp on a TPM.


Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar

On 3/8/2024 2:30 PM, Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches wrote:

With news that PLP has dropped the TPM line, what are you all 
recommending for a good mount for up to 8 modules , 400 w range.

I looked in the archives, but no luck.
I thought there was someone formerly at DPW that was making them.

Jeremy Rodriguez
Solar Installation / Design
All Solar, Inc.
1453 M St.
Penrose Colorado 81240

Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand.
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Links:
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Re: [RE-wrenches] TPM Search

[Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches]

Another one out there that is worth looking at is MT Solar.
Cheers,
Dave

On Fri, Mar 8, 2024, 5:51 PM Kent via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Jeremy,
>
> I think the Solar RacksWorks TPMs are virtually identical to the DPW TPMs.
> My go to TPM is General Specialties
> <https://www.generalspecialtiesmfg.com/>; They are a solid design and I
> think they are easier to assemble. They also have UL listed TPMs but they
> have top mounting clamps, and for the life of me I don't understand the
> logic of of a top mount clamp on a TPM.
>
> Kent Osterberg
> Blue Mountain Solar
>
>
> On 3/8/2024 2:30 PM, Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> With news that PLP has dropped the TPM line, what are you all recommending 
> for a good mount for up to 8 modules , 400 w range.
> I looked in the archives, but no luck.
> I thought there was someone formerly at DPW that was making them.
>
> Jeremy Rodriguez
> Solar Installation / Design
> All Solar, Inc.
> 1453 M St.
> Penrose Colorado 81240
>
> Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand.
> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Schneider CSW4048 / Lithium DD5300

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Mine work fine closed loop with Discover AES only. I doubt there is much 
support on other batteries as they all use XW pro which uses the RS 485 
protocol to close the loop with different battery brands.


To get it going open loop you would use a custom battery menu and 
probably need an external battery mon and shunt.


Ouch !  Sorry about that. Going to be a project!

With an AES : 42-48-3000, 42-48-6650 it is just plugging in xanbus and 
you are done.


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-03-06 11:35 am, Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches wrote:


Hello Wrenches,

Has anyone been able to get a CSW4048 inverter to work with battery 
type set to Lithium? When I try that it gives a F89 battery discharge 
over-current error within a few seconds. The battery is at 100% SoC and 
there was only the inverter idle loads present.


The CSW manual refers to document 976-0319-01-01 for specifics on 
Lithium. I have not been able to locate that document. Schneider tech 
support suggests try using custom battery setting, but it won't go 
lower than 56V when the battery specs request 55V max.


I specified the CSW4048 inverter for a Lithium installation not 
realizing until too late that the CSW doesn't actually offer 
closed-loop BMS integration. Using the Insight device it does interface 
to the BMS and allows the MPPT controllers to integrate for BMS derived 
SoC based charge control. Unclear if the BatLev gauge on the SCP will 
accurately display SoC values from the BMS.


Kevin

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[RE-wrenches] Fwd: Re: Older Sunny Islands charging newer Lithium's

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

I think it is the battery that is most important in closed loop, as that 
is where the cost/warranty is. I have an email out on this for another 
friend and will get back. Below is the SMA Island manual for Discover 
AES battery link. Each Inverter company has a manual from AES for their 
battery. Not sure why an Inverter make would not want to do this but...


https://discoverbattery.com/s4x_files/resources/des-lynk-2-sma-manual.pdf

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [4]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-03-01 5:06 pm, Glenn Burt wrote:

Again, just because a battery manufacturer says they are compatible 
with an inverter, does not mean the inverter manufacturer agrees, 
supports it, or will answer service calls regarding it.

Not a risk I am willing to take.

-Glenn
Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.

-- Original message--
From: Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches
Date: Fri, Mar 1, 2024 8:03 PM
To: RE-wrenches;
Cc: Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar;
Subject:Re: [RE-wrenches] Older Sunny Islands charging newer Lithium's

AES is closed loop with 7 inverter manufacturers (not Outback and I do 
not know why) including SMA. Not sure on the particulars but you should 
check them out with Lync2 interface. I just use them closed loop with 
XW and they can charge 40% faster.


https://discoverlithium.com/products/lithium-batteries/aes-rackmount

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
[1]https://offgridsolar1.com/  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060 [2]

On 2024-03-01 4 [3]:43 pm, Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches wrote:

I recently went through this wxwrcise with an old customer of mine as 
well.
I spent a lot of time researching options. Manufacturers and 
conversations with SMA regarding their support of a conversion to Life 
storage.
Bottom line for me was that SMA does not support any lithium battery 
manufacturer available in the US.
I stuck with exact replacement batteries for those that were 
exhausted, Concorde AGM's.


-Glenn
Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.

-- Original message--
From: Peter Giroux via RE-wrenches
Date: Fri, Mar 1, 2024 3:52 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches';
Cc: pgir...@mindspring.com;
Subject:[RE-wrenches] Older Sunny Islands charging newer Lithium's

My fellow wrenchers. Have sought help from SMA but they just defer to 
owner's manuals and the older batteries listed.. I have a customer 
with two SMA 5048's, roughly 11 years old and appear to be working 
fine. Customer wants to move to LIPO batteries and keep his SMA's. Has 
anybody made these transitions and how did you do it, not sure the SMA 
programing for LIPO's works the way Lithium's need. Any and all help 
and ideas appreciated.


Thx

Peter Giroux

American Solar & Alternative Energy Solutions inc
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[RE-wrenches] Anyone in the Maryland region want lots of used solar panels?

[Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches]

If anyone in the Maryland region is interested in lots of used solar panels
in the 235-300w range, send me a direct message. Sounds like they are
upgrading some older sites. Here is a message I received from an old friend:

As part of some of our upcoming portfolios there are old panels that we
might be removing as a favor to the customers or to increase productivity.
A couple of them are just 20-50 panels, but there is one that is about 1900
panels.  The panels are generally old though and in the 235W-300W range.
My question to you as someone who does small scale solar and deeply cares
about the environmental portion, is do you know if there are groups that
would want these older panels.  I have talked to some of the larger
recyclers and they don't want these to use as panels but would obviously be
happy to have us pay them to recycle.  I wasn't sure if you were aware of
any groups that would want to have these older panels and actually use them
for installation.  These are in the Maryland region, but would be happy to
have any contacts.

-- 
[image: Logo] <https://www.sungineersolar.com/>
Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
Owner | Sungineer Solar
p: he | him | his
a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
w: www.sungineersolar.com <http://www.sungineersolar.com/>
c: (607) 270-0370
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Older Sunny Islands charging newer Lithium's

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

AES is closed loop with 7 inverter manufacturers (not Outback and I do 
not know why) including SMA. Not sure on the particulars but you should 
check them out with Lync2 interface. I just use them closed loop with XW 
and they can charge 40% faster.


https://discoverlithium.com/products/lithium-batteries/aes-rackmount

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-03-01 4:43 pm, Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches wrote:

I recently went through this wxwrcise with an old customer of mine as 
well.
I spent a lot of time researching options. Manufacturers and 
conversations with SMA regarding their support of a conversion to Life 
storage.
Bottom line for me was that SMA does not support any lithium battery 
manufacturer available in the US.
I stuck with exact replacement batteries for those that were exhausted, 
Concorde AGM's.


-Glenn
Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.

-- Original message--
From: Peter Giroux via RE-wrenches
Date: Fri, Mar 1, 2024 3:52 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches';
Cc: pgir...@mindspring.com;
Subject:[RE-wrenches] Older Sunny Islands charging newer Lithium's

My fellow wrenchers. Have sought help from SMA but they just defer to 
owner's manuals and the older batteries listed.. I have a customer with 
two SMA 5048's, roughly 11 years old and appear to be working fine. 
Customer wants to move to LIPO batteries and keep his SMA's. Has 
anybody made these transitions and how did you do it, not sure the SMA 
programing for LIPO's works the way Lithium's need. Any and all help 
and ideas appreciated.


Thx

Peter Giroux

American Solar & Alternative Energy Solutions inc
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Non-battery string inverter options?

[Dave Lee via RE-wrenches]

Try YouLoveSolar.Com in Nor Cal.  I buy her refurbs to solve positive
grounded system swaps

Dave

***
Dave Lee, General Manager
ROAM Solar, Inc.  CSLB# 137
650-504-5680 (office),  650-701-3070 (sales)
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional TM



On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 3:56 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Friends:
>
>
>
> Now that RSS is required on almost every installation, I am having trouble
> finding a plain old, non-battery, non-MLPE string inverter.  This is for a
> ground mount with the inverter mounted to the rack-- the only scenario I
> can imagine that does not require RSS.  I don’t need or want battery
> capability, now or in the future.  The project does not have shading issues
> and the inverter will be mounted on the array, so no version of MLPE is
> needed.
>
>
>
> My usual go-to would be the legacy SMA Sunny Boy series.  I can’t dine one
> for sale and I am getting the impression these are no longer available.
>
>
>
> What might you recommend for this new installation?
>
>
>
> This brings up the question:  Of all the Sunny Boy installations I  have
> out there, the next time one fails, what am I going to replace it with?
>
>
>
> The new Sunny Boy Smarty-Pants series is not yet shipping, it is very
> expensive and to replace a grid-connected inverter I don’t need battery
> capabilities.
>
>
>
> I can’t use Solar Edge because I won’t want to unwire a complete array and
> add optimizers.
>
>
>
> I am not that taken with Sol-Ark, not only because it includes the word
> Arc in its name.  I don’t need the battery capabilities, AC load center or
> any of the other complexities.
>
>
>
> Any advice is appreciated.
>
>
>
> William
>
>
>
> Miller Solar
>
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>
> 805-438-5600
>
> www.millersolar.com
>
> CA Lic. 773985
>
>
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] EG4 Equipment

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

You should start a new thread and not use this one. You will get more 
response! Good Luck!


---

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-02-20 9:42 am, Tom McCalmont via RE-wrenches wrote:

I have an LG RESU-10H Gen2 Type R battery that has discharged so far 
that the display will no longer turn on.  Apparently, there is a 
recovery process for this situation that involves using an 
LG-sanctioned charger that will properly manage the BMS throughout the 
recovery process.  I have access to the correct charger for this 
purpose.


However, I have searched the Internet and Youtube and cannot find any 
instructions that explain how to operate the charger and recover the LG 
battery.


Does anyone on this group have experience with this situation and can 
help?  Is there a service manual for the LG RESU battery that explains 
how to recharge it in this situation (again, can find nothing but the 
installation manual on the internet).


Many thanks for any insights.

Tom McCalmont

On Feb 20, 2024, at 8:59 AM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via 
RE-wrenches  wrote:


Someone asked about the loss on the discover AES rackmount.

"The contactor is bi-stable so it doesn't require extra holding current 
in either state. The ON state loss is 7.49mA."


https://discoverlithium.com/products/lithium-batteries/aes-rackmount

Also below is a response from Schneider on closing the loop with EG4.

Thanks for the feedback Dave.
I visited Signature last year to offer training. The EG4 is available 
in the dropdown menu for BMS Setup in v1.18 InsightLocal firmware.

Integration with XW Pro has worked well from what I have seen.
Eric

Eric Bentsen

Auburn, WA
United States

[3]

[4]

Download mySchneider app [4]

24/7 support. Mobile catalog. Access to expert help.

[5]  [6]  [7]  [8]  [9]  [10]  [11]

Genera

-

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar

"we go where powerlines don't"

[1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]

e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net

text 209 813 0060

 Original Message 

Subject:
Re: [RE-wrenches] EG4 Equipment

Date:
2024-02-16 3:11 pm

From:
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches 



To:
RE-wrenches 

Cc:
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar 

Reply-To:
offgridso...@sti.net, RE-wrenches 

Howie, I think you should also look again at the Discover rack mount 
system in the link below. Nice 75 year old company that made it's name 
on Locomotive batteries. Their prices are way down around 14 K for 
30Kwh with heaters. If you have not looked at Lynk2 their gateway 
closed loop into SMA, Schneider, Solark, Morningstar and a few others 
you should.


The only problems I have with Schneider are pretty easy and get 
resolved because I only use them and take all of the training. Conext 
Insight is a home run for my clients. Schneider also hired me to test 
their first closed loop system with LG back in 2017 and it still is 
working fine.


https://discoverlithium.com/products/lithium-batteries/aes-rackmount 
[12]


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar

"we go where powerlines don't"

[1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]

e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net

text 209 813 0060

On 2024-02-16 2:02 pm, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches wrote:

We gave EG4 and Signature another chance after promises from their 
dealer oriented support department that we could expect better service 
from them. We had an EG4 BMS crap out a couple months ago after only a 
few months. Lots and lots of communications with Signature and we still 
don't have a BMS or replacement battery. It's been a shit show with 
them. I think we are going to remove them and install 3rd party BMS's 
and find some use for them. Maybe donate them. We've only had luck with 
Schneider/Discover pairings in closed loop. A large system we did with 
Sol-Arks never really worked in Closed loop, despite Discover coming to 
the site. Most likely it's a Sol-Ark issue, but we've reached Sol-Arks 
technical expertise limits. Even with Schneider/AES, there have been 
some issues that are causing me to re-consider Li for offgrid. I just 
had a conversation this morning with a long time off-grid pro and he 
said the same thing. It used to be, we'd install a wet lead acid bank 
and then ten years would pass before hearing from the client when it 
was time for another bank. Sometimes fifteen years. Our call backs with 
systems over the last ten years, first with a decline in equipment 
quality and then the switch to Li are costing us too much money and 
causing a lot of heartburn for our clients. Rant Over


On Fri, Feb 16, 2024 at 12:57 PM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Hi All,

I've searched the archives for info pertaining to EG4 inverters and 
batteries. The comments have been mostly positive.  I have stayed away 
from EG4 u

Re: [RE-wrenches] EG4 Equipment

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

The LG charger probably generates the Heartbeat signal you need to fool 
the contactor to be on for charging.


I Think! My experience is with the 48V RESU 10 and not the  RESU 10H 
that is a 400vdc battery.


There were a few people on here with 10H so hang on.

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-02-20 9:42 am, Tom McCalmont via RE-wrenches wrote:

I have an LG RESU-10H Gen2 Type R battery that has discharged so far 
that the display will no longer turn on.  Apparently, there is a 
recovery process for this situation that involves using an 
LG-sanctioned charger that will properly manage the BMS throughout the 
recovery process.  I have access to the correct charger for this 
purpose.


However, I have searched the Internet and Youtube and cannot find any 
instructions that explain how to operate the charger and recover the LG 
battery.


Does anyone on this group have experience with this situation and can 
help?  Is there a service manual for the LG RESU battery that explains 
how to recharge it in this situation (again, can find nothing but the 
installation manual on the internet).


Many thanks for any insights.

Tom McCalmont

On Feb 20, 2024, at 8:59 AM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via 
RE-wrenches  wrote:


Someone asked about the loss on the discover AES rackmount.

"The contactor is bi-stable so it doesn't require extra holding current 
in either state. The ON state loss is 7.49mA."


https://discoverlithium.com/products/lithium-batteries/aes-rackmount

Also below is a response from Schneider on closing the loop with EG4.

Thanks for the feedback Dave.
I visited Signature last year to offer training. The EG4 is available 
in the dropdown menu for BMS Setup in v1.18 InsightLocal firmware.

Integration with XW Pro has worked well from what I have seen.
Eric

Eric Bentsen

Auburn, WA
United States

[3]

[4]

Download mySchneider app [4]

24/7 support. Mobile catalog. Access to expert help.

[5]  [6]  [7]  [8]  [9]  [10]  [11]

Genera

-

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar

"we go where powerlines don't"

[1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]

e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net

text 209 813 0060

 Original Message 

Subject:
Re: [RE-wrenches] EG4 Equipment

Date:
2024-02-16 3:11 pm

From:
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches 



To:
RE-wrenches 

Cc:
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar 

Reply-To:
offgridso...@sti.net, RE-wrenches 

Howie, I think you should also look again at the Discover rack mount 
system in the link below. Nice 75 year old company that made it's name 
on Locomotive batteries. Their prices are way down around 14 K for 
30Kwh with heaters. If you have not looked at Lynk2 their gateway 
closed loop into SMA, Schneider, Solark, Morningstar and a few others 
you should.


The only problems I have with Schneider are pretty easy and get 
resolved because I only use them and take all of the training. Conext 
Insight is a home run for my clients. Schneider also hired me to test 
their first closed loop system with LG back in 2017 and it still is 
working fine.


https://discoverlithium.com/products/lithium-batteries/aes-rackmount 
[12]


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar

"we go where powerlines don't"

[1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]

e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net

text 209 813 0060

On 2024-02-16 2:02 pm, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches wrote:

We gave EG4 and Signature another chance after promises from their 
dealer oriented support department that we could expect better service 
from them. We had an EG4 BMS crap out a couple months ago after only a 
few months. Lots and lots of communications with Signature and we still 
don't have a BMS or replacement battery. It's been a shit show with 
them. I think we are going to remove them and install 3rd party BMS's 
and find some use for them. Maybe donate them. We've only had luck with 
Schneider/Discover pairings in closed loop. A large system we did with 
Sol-Arks never really worked in Closed loop, despite Discover coming to 
the site. Most likely it's a Sol-Ark issue, but we've reached Sol-Arks 
technical expertise limits. Even with Schneider/AES, there have been 
some issues that are causing me to re-consider Li for offgrid. I just 
had a conversation this morning with a long time off-grid pro and he 
said the same thing. It used to be, we'd install a wet lead acid bank 
and then ten years would pass before hearing from the client when it 
was time for another bank. Sometimes fifteen years. Our call backs with 
systems over the last ten years, first with a decline in equipment 
quality and then the switch to Li are costing us too much money and 
causing a lot of heartburn for our clients. Rant Over


On Fri, Feb 16, 2024 at 12:57 PM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


H

Re: [RE-wrenches] EG4 Equipment

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Someone asked about the loss on the discover AES rackmount.

"The contactor is bi-stable so it doesn't require extra holding current 
in either state. The ON state loss is 7.49mA."


https://discoverlithium.com/products/lithium-batteries/aes-rackmount

Also below is a response from Schneider on closing the loop with EG4.

Thanks for the feedback Dave.

I visited Signature last year to offer training. The EG4 is available in 
the dropdown menu for BMS Setup in v1.18 InsightLocal firmware.


Integration with XW Pro has worked well from what I have seen.

Eric

Eric Bentsen

Auburn, WA
United States

 [9]

 [10]

Download mySchneider app [10]

24/7 support. Mobile catalog. Access to expert help.

 [11]  [12]  [13]  [14]  [15]  [16]  [17]

Genera

-

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar

"we go where powerlines don't"

   [7]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [8]  [7]

e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net

text 209 813 0060

 Original Message 

Subject:

Re: [RE-wrenches] EG4 Equipment

Date:

2024-02-16 3:11 pm

From:

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches 



To:

RE-wrenches 

Cc:

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar 

Reply-To:

offgridso...@sti.net, RE-wrenches 

Howie, I think you should also look again at the Discover rack mount 
system in the link below. Nice 75 year old company that made it's name 
on Locomotive batteries. Their prices are way down around 14 K for 30Kwh 
with heaters. If you have not looked at Lynk2 their gateway closed loop 
into SMA, Schneider, Solark, Morningstar and a few others you should.


The only problems I have with Schneider are pretty easy and get resolved 
because I only use them and take all of the training. Conext Insight is 
a home run for my clients. Schneider also hired me to test their first 
closed loop system with LG back in 2017 and it still is working fine.


https://discoverlithium.com/products/lithium-batteries/aes-rackmount 
[18]


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar

"we go where powerlines don't"

   [7]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [8]  [7]

e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net

text 209 813 0060

On 2024-02-16 2:02 pm, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches wrote:

We gave EG4 and Signature another chance after promises from their 
dealer oriented support department that we could expect better service 
from them. We had an EG4 BMS crap out a couple months ago after only a 
few months. Lots and lots of communications with Signature and we still 
don't have a BMS or replacement battery. It's been a shit show with 
them. I think we are going to remove them and install 3rd party BMS's 
and find some use for them. Maybe donate them. We've only had luck with 
Schneider/Discover pairings in closed loop. A large system we did with 
Sol-Arks never really worked in Closed loop, despite Discover coming to 
the site. Most likely it's a Sol-Ark issue, but we've reached Sol-Arks 
technical expertise limits. Even with Schneider/AES, there have been 
some issues that are causing me to re-consider Li for offgrid. I just 
had a conversation this morning with a long time off-grid pro and he 
said the same thing. It used to be, we'd install a wet lead acid bank 
and then ten years would pass before hearing from the client when it 
was time for another bank. Sometimes fifteen years. Our call backs with 
systems over the last ten years, first with a decline in equipment 
quality and then the switch to Li are costing us too much money and 
causing a lot of heartburn for our clients. Rant Over


On Fri, Feb 16, 2024 at 12:57 PM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:



Hi All,

I've searched the archives for info pertaining to EG4 inverters and 
batteries. The comments have been mostly positive.  I have stayed away 
from EG4 until now in part, for the reason the Michael Morningstar 
suggested last June - that is, they seemed very oriented to the DIY 
market and not real serious contenders in the lasting marketplace. 
However, I was at RE+ Boston this week and was quite surprised to see 
that the EG4 18k inverter is, for all I could tell, identical to the 
Fortress Envy 12k, in both physical layout as well as menu structure. 
I have very limited experience with the Envy (having just installed my 
1st one last week, in order to compare it to the Sol-Ark 15). I don't 
have any thoughts about it yet, except that the font on the screen is 
quite small and the opening screen is not as intuitive as the Sol-Ark, 
but that might just take familiarizing myself more to the Envy (and/or 
the EG4).


My question is, for folks who have had either the Envy or the EG4 
inverters installed for a decent period of time, what is your current 
take on their functionality, durability, and for the EG4, the quality 
of support? Also, what experience have folks had similarly with the 
EG4 LLI batteries? I'm not unhappy with the Sol-Ark or in general the 
Fortress eVault Max battery, but there are some att

Re: [RE-wrenches] EG4 Equipment

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Surrette and Full river AGM's  Been berry berry good to me!

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-02-17 9:43 am, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches wrote:

I fully agree that off grid solar has taken a major downturn. Once the 
equipment became software based, the reliability dropped. Sure, there 
are nice features available with these cyber enhanced systems, but the 
cost in reliability makes being energy independent off the grid hard to 
accomplish.


There are good reports on Samlex products. Has anyone tried their new 
120/240 split phase units? Are they stack-able yet?


As far as batteries go, I'm pretty much in the Lead Head club, 
especially for off grid. That being said, lead acid batteries, 
especially AGMs have gotten really expensive and it seems the quality 
isn't what it used to be.


What is the best AGM battery these days?

Thanks,

Drake

---

On 2024-02-16 17:02, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches wrote:

We gave EG4 and Signature another chance after promises from their 
dealer oriented support department that we could expect better service 
from them. We had an EG4 BMS crap out a couple months ago after only a 
few months. Lots and lots of communications with Signature and we still 
don't have a BMS or replacement battery. It's been a shit show with 
them. I think we are going to remove them and install 3rd party BMS's 
and find some use for them. Maybe donate them. We've only had luck with 
Schneider/Discover pairings in closed loop. A large system we did with 
Sol-Arks never really worked in Closed loop, despite Discover coming to 
the site. Most likely it's a Sol-Ark issue, but we've reached Sol-Arks 
technical expertise limits. Even with Schneider/AES, there have been 
some issues that are causing me to re-consider Li for offgrid. I just 
had a conversation this morning with a long time off-grid pro and he 
said the same thing. It used to be, we'd install a wet lead acid bank 
and then ten years would pass before hearing from the client when it 
was time for another bank. Sometimes fifteen years. Our call backs with 
systems over the last ten years, first with a decline in equipment 
quality and then the switch to Li are costing us too much money and 
causing a lot of heartburn for our clients. Rant Over


On Fri, Feb 16, 2024 at 12:57 PM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Hi All,

I've searched the archives for info pertaining to EG4 inverters and 
batteries. The comments have been mostly positive.  I have stayed away 
from EG4 until now in part, for the reason the Michael Morningstar 
suggested last June - that is, they seemed very oriented to the DIY 
market and not real serious contenders in the lasting marketplace. 
However, I was at RE+ Boston this week and was quite surprised to see 
that the EG4 18k inverter is, for all I could tell, identical to the 
Fortress Envy 12k, in both physical layout as well as menu structure. I 
have very limited experience with the Envy (having just installed my 
1st one last week, in order to compare it to the Sol-Ark 15). I don't 
have any thoughts about it yet, except that the font on the screen is 
quite small and the opening screen is not as intuitive as the Sol-Ark, 
but that might just take familiarizing myself more to the Envy (and/or 
the EG4).


My question is, for folks who have had either the Envy or the EG4 
inverters installed for a decent period of time, what is your current 
take on their functionality, durability, and for the EG4, the quality 
of support? Also, what experience have folks had similarly with the EG4 
LLI batteries? I'm not unhappy with the Sol-Ark or in general the 
Fortress eVault Max battery, but there are some attractive things about 
the Envy and potentially the EG4 18k, and the price point and seemingly 
smart configuration of the EG4 LLI batteries are certainly 
eye-catching.


I'm also currently starting to lean toward using Lithium batteries and 
inverters from the same manufacturer, as I'm growing weary of the 
mismatching firmware updates that are causing somewhat frequent issues 
between the 2 components. Although the inverter/battery integrated 
units (i.e. Sonen, Tesla, etc.) don't seem ideal, since the market is 
so volatile at the moment. If one component fails, I'd like the option 
to replace it with a different brand without having to replace the 
other component as well. Using the same manu doesn't necessarily cut 
down the problems, but it certainly will help in the troubleshooting 
process by hopefully having less of the "not my problem" or "we haven't 
seen that problem" responses from tech support.


I really don't like making forays into bleeding-edge technologies, so 
I'm hoping to gain some experienced insight.


Thanks,

How

Re: [RE-wrenches] EG4 Equipment

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Howie, I think you should also look again at the Discover rack mount 
system in the link below. Nice 75 year old company that made it's name 
on Locomotive batteries. Their prices are way down around 14 K for 30Kwh 
with heaters. If you have not looked at Lynk2 their gateway closed loop 
into SMA, Schneider, Solark, Morningstar and a few others you should.


The only problems I have with Schneider are pretty easy and get resolved 
because I only use them and take all of the training. Conext Insight is 
a home run for my clients. Schneider also hired me to test their first 
closed loop system with LG back in 2017 and it still is working fine.


https://discoverlithium.com/products/lithium-batteries/aes-rackmount

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-02-16 2:02 pm, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches wrote:

We gave EG4 and Signature another chance after promises from their 
dealer oriented support department that we could expect better service 
from them. We had an EG4 BMS crap out a couple months ago after only a 
few months. Lots and lots of communications with Signature and we still 
don't have a BMS or replacement battery. It's been a shit show with 
them. I think we are going to remove them and install 3rd party BMS's 
and find some use for them. Maybe donate them. We've only had luck with 
Schneider/Discover pairings in closed loop. A large system we did with 
Sol-Arks never really worked in Closed loop, despite Discover coming to 
the site. Most likely it's a Sol-Ark issue, but we've reached Sol-Arks 
technical expertise limits. Even with Schneider/AES, there have been 
some issues that are causing me to re-consider Li for offgrid. I just 
had a conversation this morning with a long time off-grid pro and he 
said the same thing. It used to be, we'd install a wet lead acid bank 
and then ten years would pass before hearing from the client when it 
was time for another bank. Sometimes fifteen years. Our call backs with 
systems over the last ten years, first with a decline in equipment 
quality and then the switch to Li are costing us too much money and 
causing a lot of heartburn for our clients. Rant Over


On Fri, Feb 16, 2024 at 12:57 PM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:



Hi All,

I've searched the archives for info pertaining to EG4 inverters and 
batteries. The comments have been mostly positive.  I have stayed away 
from EG4 until now in part, for the reason the Michael Morningstar 
suggested last June - that is, they seemed very oriented to the DIY 
market and not real serious contenders in the lasting marketplace. 
However, I was at RE+ Boston this week and was quite surprised to see 
that the EG4 18k inverter is, for all I could tell, identical to the 
Fortress Envy 12k, in both physical layout as well as menu structure. 
I have very limited experience with the Envy (having just installed my 
1st one last week, in order to compare it to the Sol-Ark 15). I don't 
have any thoughts about it yet, except that the font on the screen is 
quite small and the opening screen is not as intuitive as the Sol-Ark, 
but that might just take familiarizing myself more to the Envy (and/or 
the EG4).


My question is, for folks who have had either the Envy or the EG4 
inverters installed for a decent period of time, what is your current 
take on their functionality, durability, and for the EG4, the quality 
of support? Also, what experience have folks had similarly with the 
EG4 LLI batteries? I'm not unhappy with the Sol-Ark or in general the 
Fortress eVault Max battery, but there are some attractive things 
about the Envy and potentially the EG4 18k, and the price point and 
seemingly smart configuration of the EG4 LLI batteries are certainly 
eye-catching.


I'm also currently starting to lean toward using Lithium batteries and 
inverters from the same manufacturer, as I'm growing weary of the 
mismatching firmware updates that are causing somewhat frequent issues 
between the 2 components. Although the inverter/battery integrated 
units (i.e. Sonen, Tesla, etc.) don't seem ideal, since the market is 
so volatile at the moment. If one component fails, I'd like the option 
to replace it with a different brand without having to replace the 
other component as well. Using the same manu doesn't necessarily cut 
down the problems, but it certainly will help in the troubleshooting 
process by hopefully having less of the "not my problem" or "we 
haven't seen that problem" responses from tech support.


I really don't like making forays into bleeding-edge technologies, so 
I'm hoping to gain some experienced insight.


Thanks,

Howie Michaelson

Sun Catcher ___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional mem

Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress

[Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches]

Kirk,

That site looks specifically for the Envy inverters. Do you know if the
Guardian site is working? My credentials will not get me in at this time.
www.app.fortresspower.io

My sites have no comms between the batteries and the inverter, since it is
an Outback system.

And yes, there is certainly an issue with SOC drift over time without
getting a full charge. I was told by Fortress tech support that the eFlex
batteries needed to get over 55V to calibrate the SOC. Yet, in their
settings, the generator is only supposed to bring them to 54.4V. The solar
will bring it higher. But this was a problem here in upstate NY, where we
did not have a sunny enough day in the entire month of January.

Cheers,
Dave


On Thu, Feb 15, 2024 at 12:30 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via
RE-wrenches  wrote:

> So this is all open loop with outback correct?  I can't even get into
> Simplyphi. website today. Maybe the windows update...
>
> The battery below was suppose to be networkable but it looks like not much
> progress.
>
>- Model: AmpliPHI 3.8kWh
>- Inverter compatibility: Sol-Ark, SMA (coming soon), Schneider
>Electric (coming soon)
>
> A question, it looks like Outback is not closed loop with any battery
> company. I hope I am wrong!
>
>
>
> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> "we go where powerlines don't"
><http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>https://offgridsolar1.com/ 
> <https://offgridsolar1.com/>  <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>
> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net 
> text 209 813 0060*
>
>
> On 2024-02-15 8:57 am, Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> Is it similar to my problem with my Simplify batteries? Over time, the BMS
> did not allow all cells to charge the same. To correct this, I had to
> charge each battery separately, and after this, they stayed equivalent for
> more years.
>
> On Thu, Feb 15, 2024 at 7:50 AM Jay via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>
> Hi william
>
> Could you share the equipment used and what issues you had?
>
> Thx
> Jay
>
> On Feb 14, 2024, at 3:13 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> Peter:
>
>
>
> I have only purchased one set of Fortress batteries.  There have been
> issues, I am sure many of them self-induced.  Fortress has been overall
> very responsive.  There have been a few days where I could not get through
> to technical support but with persistence I always manage.  Fortress has
> offered truck–roll compensation at a reasonable rate as well.
>
>
>
> William Miller
>
>
>
> Miller Solar
>
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>
> 805-438-5600
>
> www.millersolar.com
>
> CA Lic. 773985
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Peter Giroux via RE-wrenches
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2024 6:47 AM
> *To:* 'RE-wrenches'
> *Cc:* pgir...@mindspring.com
> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Fortress
>
>
>
> Good morning my fellow wrenchers. While I see the comments on SunPower and
> the challenges, are any of you having similar issues with Fortress? Their
> bms boards from the early classics have not held up and even after
> replacement there are still issues ( parallel batteries and stand alone not
> showing accurate #'s,  ). While support has been, well supportive, the
> issues persist. Any thoughts or fixes you have come up with?? I just had a
> customer unplug the coms cable from their sol-ark and bring their readings
> to volts VS %% and it is starting to work a bit better. Any and all help or
> ideas appreciated.
>
>
>
> Thx
> peter Giroux
>
> American Solar
>
> Norcross Ga
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
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>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

So this is all open loop with outback correct?  I can't even get into 
Simplyphi. website today. Maybe the windows update...


The battery below was suppose to be networkable but it looks like not 
much progress.


* Model: AmpliPHI 3.8kWh
 	* Inverter compatibility: Sol-Ark, SMA (coming soon), Schneider 
Electric (coming soon)


 A question, it looks like Outback is not closed loop with any battery 
company. I hope I am wrong!


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [2]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [3]  [2]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-02-15 8:57 am, Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches wrote:

Is it similar to my problem with my Simplify batteries? Over time, the 
BMS did not allow all cells to charge the same. To correct this, I had 
to charge each battery separately, and after this, they stayed 
equivalent for more years.


On Thu, Feb 15, 2024 at 7:50 AM Jay via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Hi william

Could you share the equipment used and what issues you had?

Thx
Jay

On Feb 14, 2024, at 3:13 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Peter:

I have only purchased one set of Fortress batteries.  There have been 
issues, I am sure many of them self-induced.  Fortress has been overall 
very responsive.  There have been a few days where I could not get 
through to technical support but with persistence I always manage.  
Fortress has offered truck-roll compensation at a reasonable rate as 
well.


William Miller

Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com [1]

CA Lic. 773985

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On 
Behalf Of Peter Giroux via RE-wrenches

Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2024 6:47 AM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Cc: pgir...@mindspring.com
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fortress

Good morning my fellow wrenchers. While I see the comments on SunPower 
and the challenges, are any of you having similar issues with Fortress? 
Their bms boards from the early classics have not held up and even 
after replacement there are still issues ( parallel batteries and stand 
alone not showing accurate #'s,  ). While support has been, well 
supportive, the issues persist. Any thoughts or fixes you have come up 
with?? I just had a customer unplug the coms cable from their sol-ark 
and bring their readings to volts VS %% and it is starting to work a 
bit better. Any and all help or ideas appreciated.


Thx
peter Giroux

American Solar

Norcross Ga ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress

[Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches]

I also have been having some issues with reported SOC through the Guardian
with Fortress. Fortress is generally responsive, although no one has
specifically addressed my concern yet. What I have seen with two recent
eFlex installations (replacing an existing battery bank on an off-grid
system) is that the reported SOC in the Guardian app for some batteries is
way lower than it should be. For example, one system is at 92%, 92%, 92%,
62%. Yet the lights on the batteries all indicate that they are in the
75-100% range. The other system is reporting 23%, 63%, 62%, 25%, 48%, and
again, all the LED's on the batteries are in sync. This has led one
customer to keep disconnecting the batteries and trying to charge just one
of them up and then fiddling with it until they are all back within a good
voltage range, when I am nearly certain that they are all the same voltage
even though they are reporting different SOC on the Guardian app only.

I am looking forward to when they have the website up and I can look at
historical data to see whether this battery is actually doing more work. I
suspect it is not, but then maybe I can get Fortress to look more closely
at it. And for all these batteries, the cables are exactly the same length
and going to a bus bar.

Has anyone else noticed this discrepancy between the guardian app and (what
I think is) reality with the SOC?

Cheers,
Dave

On Thu, Feb 15, 2024 at 8:52 AM Jay via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi william
>
> Could you share the equipment used and what issues you had?
>
> Thx
> Jay
>
> On Feb 14, 2024, at 3:13 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Peter:
>
>
>
> I have only purchased one set of Fortress batteries.  There have been
> issues, I am sure many of them self-induced.  Fortress has been overall
> very responsive.  There have been a few days where I could not get through
> to technical support but with persistence I always manage.  Fortress has
> offered truck–roll compensation at a reasonable rate as well.
>
>
>
> William Miller
>
>
>
> Miller Solar
>
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>
> 805-438-5600
>
> www.millersolar.com
>
> CA Lic. 773985
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Peter Giroux via RE-wrenches
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2024 6:47 AM
> *To:* 'RE-wrenches'
> *Cc:* pgir...@mindspring.com
> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Fortress
>
>
>
> Good morning my fellow wrenchers. While I see the comments on SunPower and
> the challenges, are any of you having similar issues with Fortress? Their
> bms boards from the early classics have not held up and even after
> replacement there are still issues ( parallel batteries and stand alone not
> showing accurate #’s,  ). While support has been, well supportive, the
> issues persist. Any thoughts or fixes you have come up with?? I just had a
> customer unplug the coms cable from their sol-ark and bring their readings
> to volts VS %% and it is starting to work a bit better. Any and all help or
> ideas appreciated.
>
>
>
> Thx
> peter Giroux
>
> American Solar
>
> Norcross Ga
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Hi Peter,

I was called in to consult on a new existing 4x Fortress E flex / 
Schneider XWP system that worked fine open loop but never communicated 
with the Schneider gateway. Fortress to their credit sent a tech out and 
he did Fortress FW and a PC exchange. Still not working.


The owner was upset and replaced with Discover AES 42-48-6650. There was 
zero configuration to do which surprised the installer. Worked fine 
closed loop from the start.


I do not like to be negative about companies in North America and I 
still think Fortress could have fixed this with more time.


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-02-14 6:46 am, Peter Giroux via RE-wrenches wrote:

Good morning my fellow wrenchers. While I see the comments on SunPower 
and the challenges, are any of you having similar issues with Fortress? 
Their bms boards from the early classics have not held up and even 
after replacement there are still issues ( parallel batteries and stand 
alone not showing accurate #'s,  ). While support has been, well 
supportive, the issues persist. Any thoughts or fixes you have come up 
with?? I just had a customer unplug the coms cable from their sol-ark 
and bring their readings to volts VS %% and it is starting to work a 
bit better. Any and all help or ideas appreciated.


Thx
peter Giroux

American Solar

Norcross Ga
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Temperature coefficient versus Power

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

10+ years ago I thought that Sunpower Solar wrote the best info. Their 
module technology was superior and the classic 327 module output was 
amazing in high temperature and also in cloudy skies. They were the 
first to have really good warranty for both workmanship and output over 
time.


I have little to say about the current crop of modules.

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-01-30 6:02 am, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:

I'm having a hard time finding concrete information on the relationship 
of temperature coefficient and power output. Solar panel temperature 
coefficients are determined at Pmax.


My question is, at lower irradiance levels, say where power output 
would be 50% of Pmax at 25C, would the temperature coefficient be 
greater, less, or the same?


Jason Szumlanski
Florida Solar Design Group
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Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA String inverters

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Hi August,

I was told Tesla has LFP battery now.  True?  Thanks !

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [3]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [4]  [3]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-01-10 3:25 pm, August Goers via RE-wrenches wrote:


We're starting to install the Tesla Solar Inverter with good results:

https://www.tesla.com/support/energy/solar-inverter/tesla-solar-inverter

It is going to be a tough product for others to compete with - the 
price point is low and features are high. 4 x MPPTs with low tracking 
voltage (60 VDC), built in consumption monitoring, one SKU to handle 
7.6 kW, 5.7 kW, 5 kW, 3.8 kW AC rating via software programming, built 
in ethernet/WiFi/cellular and the rapid shutdown can meet the NEC 
hazard control system requirements meaning that only one Mid-Circuit 
Interrupter (MCI) is needed for every three modules. All in all, a 
solid offering with lots of design flexibility. Time will tell how 
reliable they are.


Best, August

On Wed, Jan 10, 2024 at 10:04 AM William Miller via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:



Jeremy:

We generally avoided using the 41 series inverter for reasons 
specified here [1].  If you find a new string inverter in the SMA 
lineup, you might want to check to see if they have resolved some of 
the shortcomings.


I have not had reason to use string inverters because, other than 
Solar Edge, they do not offer intrinsic rapid shutdown.  Careful 
reading of the NEC indicates that even ground mount arrays require RSS 
unless the PV feeders run to a building with the sole use being to 
house solar equipment.  Having said that, I would imagine that if an 
inverter were mounted on the ground-mount rack, the requirement for 
RSS could be avoided.


William Miller

Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com [2]

CA Lic. 773985

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] 
On Behalf Of Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches

Sent: Monday, January 8, 2024 1:44 PM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Cc: Jeremy Rodriguez
Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA String inverters

What are you wrenches that used to install the SB-41 units 
sourcing now? Looks like there is a new model on their website


Jeremy Rodriguez

Solar Installation / Design

All Solar, Inc.

1453 M St.

Penrose Colorado 81240

Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand.

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Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA String inverters

[Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches]

We also stopped using the -41's in 2023 due to the -SB requirement in NY.
We moved to Enphase for grid tied systems. I am hearing from Greentech that
the new Sunny Boy units, up to 7.7kw, should be available very soon. These
will have a secure power supply capability. But the larger KW units and the
better backup options will not be available until likely this summer. Its
been tough for string inverters here recently, but I am hoping these new
Sunny Boy's are good.

Cheers,
Dave

On Mon, Jan 8, 2024 at 7:20 PM AE Solar via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> We haven’t used the -41s for just over a year, because they aren’t
> UL1741SB compliant (which became required here in NY last January).
> Additionally, the last time we did use the -41s we discovered (upon
> receiving the units) that they weren’t WiFi compatible anymore (due to some
> parts shortages) and that the inverters had to be hardwired in order to
> access monitoring.  The new inverter line that shows up on the SMA website
> is UL1741SB compliant, but the last time I checked with my distributor (a
> few weeks ago) they still weren’t able to get access to them.
>
> On Mon, Jan 8, 2024 at 4:44 PM Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> What are you wrenches that used to install the SB-41 units sourcing
>> now? Looks like there is a new model on their website
>>
>>
>> Jeremy Rodriguez
>> Solar Installation / Design
>> All Solar, Inc.
>> 1453 M St.
>> Penrose Colorado 81240
>>
>> Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand.
>> ___
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Owner | Sungineer Solar
p: he | him | his
a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
w: www.sungineersolar.com <http://www.sungineersolar.com/>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Schneider Rapid shutdown with 2023 compliance

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

You said that very nicely Kevin !

If this were for offgrid, I would make the inspector happy and do even 
more than Kevin suggests after he is gone. 😉


Link to RS shutdown
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMoVXq4m1wk&t=10s

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-01-02 10:24 am, Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches wrote:


Hi Mac,

I've just gone through a couple installations with a similar situation.

The hardware you list does work as intended. I had to go through three 
different suppliers to get all the components.


One thing that I didn't find clear in the MPPT RS documentation is when 
a shutdown is initiated, it shuts __everything__ on the Xanbus network 
down. All devices go into standby mode. Gen shuts down if running. 
Power is off. Not just the PV via Tigo modules. Had to develop client 
instruction sheet as to how to power up after a shutdown.


On one hand, I can see why a single point shutdown is desired outcome. 
But it concerns me that it's vulnerable to abuse. If the whole system 
shutdown is not desired, the Xanbus connection can be omitted and then 
RS will be limited to the PV modules only.


Kevin

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf 
Of Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches

Sent: January-01-24 12:00 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Mac Lewis 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Schneider Rapid shutdown with 2023 compliance

Hello Wrenches,

I need to retrofit a Schneider XW+ system with a rapid shutdown system. 
 The owner purchased this equipment about 4-5 years ago but is trying 
to get it past a very intense inspector.


To me, it looks relatively straightforward to get NEC 2023 rapid 
shutdown compliant using Tigo TS4AF, and adding Schneider's MPPT 
Disconnect RS and external rapid shutdown initiator.  It's a little 
strange though because it has 2017 NEC compliant all over the 
documentation but I believe we are good through NEC 2023 because 
shutdown occurs at a module level and the Disconnect RS can take care 
of arc-fault monitoring.


Does anyone have any documentation for the MPPT Disconnect RS that 
doesn't specifically call out (only) NEC 2017 compliant?


Or if this is not a good approach and is not reliable, I would 
appreciate your input as well.


Cheers!

--

Mac Lewis

"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates
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Re: [RE-wrenches] OpticsRE

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Did you try it on another ISP?  I sometimes hear this about Schneider 
Insight and it never is down. It always is the ISP or cell.  Good Luck


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2023-12-18 3:16 pm, Foxfire Energy via RE-wrenches wrote:

Anyone know what's going on with OpticsRE? Their sites been down since 
last Friday.  TIA


Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA TL-22 insulation resistance error

[Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches]

Just an FYI, it is specifically an "insulation resistance" error that the
inverter is throwing, and not an "arc fault" error. Fortunately it is not
an arc fault. Meggering is not a bad idea, although due to the fact that
the fault is intermittent, that might not show anything?

Cheers,
Dave

On Wed, Dec 13, 2023 at 12:30 PM August Goers via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> You might want to make sure that the SMA inverter has the latest firmware.
> It's been a long time since we've routinely installed these, but at one
> point arc faults were being falsely tripped and firmware updates from SMA
> helped with the issue.
>
>
> https://my.sma-service.com/s/article/Loading-Firmware-for-an-SB-US-TL22-or-STP-US-10-using-a-2-GB-SD-Card?language=en_US
>
> August
> Luminalt
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 13, 2023 at 9:07 AM Jay via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> I think that using a megger etc to test the panels and wires is what I’d
>> do before I yanked out  all the
>> Wires.
>>
>> They are not that expensive anymore and maybe possible to rent one?
>>
>> Jay
>>
>> On Dec 13, 2023, at 8:53 AM, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I am curious to hear if anyone else has run into this:
>>
>> This is the system I posted about a little while ago that had the
>> SolarWorld modules and all the module to module connectors were swollen and
>> melted. One of the inverters was giving an insulation resistance error, and
>> so after seeing the module connectors, I was sure that was the issue. We
>> replaced every single module connector with new MC4's, and then the error
>> came back!
>>
>> My next step was to swap in the junction box which strings go to which
>> inverter to identify whether the issue was on the roof or somewhere between
>> the roof jbox and the inverter. (the issue was isolated to only 1 of 4
>> strings previously). Turns out the same inverter is faulting, which leads
>> me to believe that there may be an issue with the wires in the DC conduit.
>> Maybe they got damaged by a rough wire pull at the initial installation 7
>> years ago, and its finally degraded enough to cause a problem. The fault is
>> intermittent, only showing up once every couple weeks or so, so it is
>> difficult to catch it while the fault is active.
>>
>> But my question is, could there also be something wrong with the inverter
>> itself? After spending a lot of time on this one, ideally, I would know
>> that replacing the DC wires will fix it. So I am curious if people have
>> done this, to still find that the issue was something internal to the
>> inverter.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> -Dave
>>
>> --
>> [image: Logo] <https://www.sungineersolar.com/>
>> Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
>> Owner | Sungineer Solar
>> p: he | him | his
>> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
>> w: www.sungineersolar.com <http://www.sungineersolar.com/>
>> c: (607) 270-0370
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>> Check out or

[RE-wrenches] SMA TL-22 insulation resistance error

[Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches]

Hi All,

I am curious to hear if anyone else has run into this:

This is the system I posted about a little while ago that had the
SolarWorld modules and all the module to module connectors were swollen and
melted. One of the inverters was giving an insulation resistance error, and
so after seeing the module connectors, I was sure that was the issue. We
replaced every single module connector with new MC4's, and then the error
came back!

My next step was to swap in the junction box which strings go to which
inverter to identify whether the issue was on the roof or somewhere between
the roof jbox and the inverter. (the issue was isolated to only 1 of 4
strings previously). Turns out the same inverter is faulting, which leads
me to believe that there may be an issue with the wires in the DC conduit.
Maybe they got damaged by a rough wire pull at the initial installation 7
years ago, and its finally degraded enough to cause a problem. The fault is
intermittent, only showing up once every couple weeks or so, so it is
difficult to catch it while the fault is active.

But my question is, could there also be something wrong with the inverter
itself? After spending a lot of time on this one, ideally, I would know
that replacing the DC wires will fix it. So I am curious if people have
done this, to still find that the issue was something internal to the
inverter.

Thanks!
-Dave

-- 
[image: Logo] <https://www.sungineersolar.com/>
Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
Owner | Sungineer Solar
p: he | him | his
a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
w: www.sungineersolar.com <http://www.sungineersolar.com/>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Grid Tied Inverter back feed to Generator

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Picture tells one alot also. You can't have 2 or more sources without 
isolation, batteries or not.  Cheers!


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2023-12-01 4:16 pm, Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches wrote:


Wrenches
Without batteries uou do not want to do this, l have tested small 
generators to excite larger solar inverters to run constant loads but 
if the inverters out power the loads then the smoke comes out so not 
advisable

But hey thats just a guy that has been in the business for many years.
Fun times.

On Thu, Nov 30, 2023, 5:20 PM Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Has anyone experienced a grid tie inverter back feed a whole house 
backup generator after a utility outage?

What can happen ?

Jeremy Rodriguez
Solar Installation / Design
All Solar, Inc.
1453 M St.
Penrose Colorado 81240

Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand.
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Links:
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Grid Tied Inverter back feed to Generator

[Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches]

Jeremy,

It is my understanding that if the generator wakes up the grid tied
inverter and loads are more than the solar then maybe nothing bad would
happen. Although I would never do that because you don't have any control
over the loads. And if the solar production is more than the loads, then
the excess energy feeds back to the generator and can break things. In
other words, move the solar interconnection to the line side of the
transfer switch so that there is no chance of the generator and solar
"seeing" each other.

Cheers,
Dave

On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 8:20 PM Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Has anyone experienced a grid tie inverter back feed a whole house backup
> generator after a utility outage?
> What can happen ?
>
>
> Jeremy Rodriguez
> Solar Installation / Design
> All Solar, Inc.
> 1453 M St.
> Penrose Colorado 81240
>
> Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand.
> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress remote monitoring

[Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches]

Interesting on the "mesh" wifi. That is good to know.
And yes, the site I linked is for the Guardian data. I don't know if there
is a separate site for the Envy data, but I'll find out in a couple weeks
when I install my first Envy inverter system. For what it's worth, their
tech support has been easy to get a hold of.

Cheers,
Dave

On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 12:04 PM Kirk Herander  wrote:

> Yeah, I tried that site the other day, my browser gave me warning
> messages, so I left it alone. So that site will be online access to the
> Guardian gateway data? I wonder if thats true for the Envy app also.
>
> PS I found out the Guardian gateway will not recognise a newer "mesh" wifi
> signal. Fortress is working on a fix, but the physical LAN connection does
> work.
>
> On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 11:28 AM Dave Tedeyan 
> wrote:
>
>> Kirk,
>>
>> I know that with the Guardian Battery monitor the app is working, but
>> they are doing a major overhaul on the website. My login info does not work
>> on the website right now, and I am told that it will not be available until
>> the new year. The website is:
>> https://app.fortresspower.io/
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Dave
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 11:25 AM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I installed an Evault 18.5 with Envy 8kw inverter the other day. I'm
>>> wondering if there is any way to actually monitor / download system data
>>> from a desktop computer? Can't find anything in the Fortress docs (some of
>>> which appear to be WIP for content) about this. The Fortress mobile apps
>>> are nice, but don't allow for any data download, unless I'm totally missing
>>> something. Thanks.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh@vermont.solar *
>>>
>>> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC*
>>>
>>> *Celebrating our 33st Anniversary 1991-2024!!*
>>>
>>> dba Vermont Solar Engineering
>>>
>>> 802.559.1225
>>> ___
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>>>
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>>
>> --
>> [image: Logo] <https://www.sungineersolar.com/>
>> Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
>> Owner | Sungineer Solar
>> p: he | him | his
>> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
>> w: www.sungineersolar.com <http://www.sungineersolar.com/>
>> c: (607) 270-0370
>>
>
>
> --
>
> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh@vermont.solar *
>
> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC*
>
> *Celebrating our 33st Anniversary 1991-2024!!*
>
> dba Vermont Solar Engineering
>
> 802.559.1225
>


-- 
[image: Logo] <https://www.sungineersolar.com/>
Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
Owner | Sungineer Solar
p: he | him | his
a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
w: www.sungineersolar.com <http://www.sungineersolar.com/>
c: (607) 270-0370
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress remote monitoring

[Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches]

Kirk,

I know that with the Guardian Battery monitor the app is working, but they
are doing a major overhaul on the website. My login info does not work on
the website right now, and I am told that it will not be available until
the new year. The website is:
https://app.fortresspower.io/

Cheers,
Dave

On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 11:25 AM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I installed an Evault 18.5 with Envy 8kw inverter the other day. I'm
> wondering if there is any way to actually monitor / download system data
> from a desktop computer? Can't find anything in the Fortress docs (some of
> which appear to be WIP for content) about this. The Fortress mobile apps
> are nice, but don't allow for any data download, unless I'm totally missing
> something. Thanks.
>
> --
>
> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh@vermont.solar *
>
> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC*
>
> *Celebrating our 33st Anniversary 1991-2024!!*
>
> dba Vermont Solar Engineering
>
> 802.559.1225
> ___
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>
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>
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Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
Owner | Sungineer Solar
p: he | him | his
a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
w: www.sungineersolar.com <http://www.sungineersolar.com/>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC interpretation/guidance?

[Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches]

Mine was a roof mount. We had very few SolarWorld projects. In fact, this
might be our only one.

On Fri, Nov 10, 2023, 8:10 AM Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I'd be curious to know of the connector failures y'all have experienced,
> were the majority of these roof mounts?
> Just wondering if with better air flow like that of a pole/ground mount,
> if that helped to minimize connector failure.
>
> Christopher
>
> On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 1:21 AM Bill Battagin via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Ray,
>>
>> Exactly the same thing happened for me on a ground mount
>> system, 3500 feet elevation the the Sierras so open cooler air, fully
>> engaged MC4 factory connectors PV to PV connectors with SW285's, not
>> passing current, melted.  No attempt to contact SW just made up new
>> connectors.
>>
>> My calculation is with anything that is no doubt made up by
>> the bazillion with a machine (connectors, light bulbs, pencils, chicken
>> nuggets, etc) you're going to get some duds.  In 20+ years of installing
>> PVs with factory made-up connectors, I've only seen this happen 2-3 times.
>> Installing in the mountains we no doubt use ground mount much more often
>> than most installs in urban areas which would make a hot, melted connector
>> possibly more of an issue a couple inches above a comp or wood roof.  We've
>> never seen any connectors fail beyond the melted/deformed but still
>> "contained" stage .
>>
>> Back when SW was first transitioning from one connector to
>> another, I remember them saying they (I think it was UTX and MC or was it
>> UTX and Amphenol?) were compatible.  We NEVER mixed connectors despite
>> their claim.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> Feather River Solar Electric
>> 4291 Nelson St. (Shipping)
>> 5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)
>> Taylorsville, CA  95983
>> 530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell)
>> CA. C10 Lic # 874049
>> Solar Powered since 1982
>> Home of the Sunny Side Up
>>
>> On 11/9/2023 4:31 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>
>> I'm trying to find a pic to post, but they were MC4 connectors, not the
>> UTX.
>>
>> Ray
>> On 11/9/2023 4:57 PM, Brian Mehalic wrote:
>>
>> Are they the Amohenol UTX connectors? SW had a recall on them, sounds
>> like about the right timeframe.
>>
>> BREAKING: SolarWorld recalls PV modules with Amphenol connectors
>> 
>> pv-magazine-usa.com
>> 
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> On Nov 9, 2023, at 4:47 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches
>>  
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> 12 Ga wire is not going to catch on fire, but the MC connectors might.  I
>> just went back on a 7 yr old Solarworld install, and had a bad series MC
>> connector (module to module).  It got quite crispy, deforming and bubbling
>> the plastic on both sides of the connection.  It was still passing current;
>> I didn't get a chance to measure the volt drop.  It was completely plugged
>> in, so not an installation issue.
>>
>> This was not one of our connectors made up in the field, these were
>> Solarworld factory connectors on both sides, same model modules.  That also
>> means no mismatch of "MC4" connector type.
>>
>> 10+ amps continuous, moist environment, 30F+  hotter than ambient temp,
>> all are tough on connectors.  I predict more connector failures as module
>> current ratings increase.
>>
>> Ray Walters
>> Remote Solar
>> On 11/9/2023 3:02 PM, Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>
>> Good luck trying to convince your customer that their house caught on
>> fire because of a manufacturers flaw, and you have no responsibility for it…
>>
>> It may be an out to shift the blame, but it only makes everybody get some
>> on them…
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* RE-wrenches 
>>  *On Behalf Of *William
>> Miller via RE-wrenches
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 08, 2023 12:14 PM
>> *To:* RE-wrenches 
>> 
>> *Cc:* William Miller  
>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC
>> interpretation/guidance?
>>
>>
>>
>> George:
>>
>>
>>
>> Appliance manufacturers have their own requirements that are not the same
>> as the NEC requirements.  As long as you are not modifying the manufactured
>> assembly you are not responsible for compliance of that appliance.  By
>> appliance, I mean the solar module, microinverter, etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> William Miller
>>
>>
>>
>> Miller Solar
>>
>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>>
>> 805-438-5600
>>
>> www.millersolar.com
>>
>> CA Lic. 773985
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
>> Behalf Of *George McClellan via RE-wrenches
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 8, 2023 9:06 AM
>> *To:* RE-wrenches
>> *Cc:* George McClellan
>>

Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC interpretation/guidance?

[Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches]

Fascinating. I emailed the list a little while back asking if anyone knew
of a way to make a warranty claim with Solarworld. We had a system with 36
of these panels, and basically every module to module connector was crispy
and deformed as Ray mentioned. I never was successful in getting in touch
with Solarworld, but we did go and replace the module connectors with MC4
on every module.

Ray, I am curious whether you were able to get any help from SolarWorld, or
whether you had to take it upon yourself to fix it.
Cheers,
Dave

On Thu, Nov 9, 2023 at 6:58 PM Brian Mehalic via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Are they the Amohenol UTX connectors? SW had a recall on them, sounds like
> about the right timeframe.
>
> BREAKING: SolarWorld recalls PV modules with Amphenol connectors
> <https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2017/03/29/solarworld-recalls-amphenol-connectors-sold-with-pv-modules/>
> pv-magazine-usa.com
> <https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2017/03/29/solarworld-recalls-amphenol-connectors-sold-with-pv-modules/>
>
> <https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2017/03/29/solarworld-recalls-amphenol-connectors-sold-with-pv-modules/>
>
>
> Brian
>
> On Nov 9, 2023, at 4:47 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> 
>
> 12 Ga wire is not going to catch on fire, but the MC connectors might.  I
> just went back on a 7 yr old Solarworld install, and had a bad series MC
> connector (module to module).  It got quite crispy, deforming and bubbling
> the plastic on both sides of the connection.  It was still passing current;
> I didn't get a chance to measure the volt drop.  It was completely plugged
> in, so not an installation issue.
>
> This was not one of our connectors made up in the field, these were
> Solarworld factory connectors on both sides, same model modules.  That also
> means no mismatch of "MC4" connector type.
>
> 10+ amps continuous, moist environment, 30F+  hotter than ambient temp,
> all are tough on connectors.  I predict more connector failures as module
> current ratings increase.
>
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> On 11/9/2023 3:02 PM, Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> Good luck trying to convince your customer that their house caught on fire
> because of a manufacturers flaw, and you have no responsibility for it…
>
> It may be an out to shift the blame, but it only makes everybody get some
> on them…
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches 
>  *On Behalf Of *William Miller
> via RE-wrenches
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 08, 2023 12:14 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches 
> 
> *Cc:* William Miller  
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC
> interpretation/guidance?
>
>
>
> George:
>
>
>
> Appliance manufacturers have their own requirements that are not the same
> as the NEC requirements.  As long as you are not modifying the manufactured
> assembly you are not responsible for compliance of that appliance.  By
> appliance, I mean the solar module, microinverter, etc.
>
>
>
> William Miller
>
>
>
> Miller Solar
>
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>
> 805-438-5600
>
> www.millersolar.com
>
> CA Lic. 773985
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *George McClellan via RE-wrenches
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 8, 2023 9:06 AM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Cc:* George McClellan
> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC
> interpretation/guidance?
>
>
>
> Team;
>
>
>
> With the move to larger cells, some modules have an Isc that is pushing
> the limits of 12 AWG wire.  If I apply the rule of 156% (or 125% solar
> derate*125% continuous load derate) to an 18 Amp Isc module this will
> exceed the 25A that a 12 AWG wire can carry.  I understand that the
> homeruns will need to be a larger AWG (10 ga), but do the solar module
> cables (from junction box to MC4) also need to be larger?  Any guidance or
> reference material would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
> Thx,
>
>
>
> George McClellan | Senior Technical Sales Manager | REC Americas LLC
>
> 330 James Way Ste 150 | Pismo Beach, CA 93449 | USA
>
> Cell phone +1 805 704 3226 | Fax +1 805 357 6104
>
> www.recgroup.com | george.mcclel...@recgroup.com
> 
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any
> unauthorized use, dissemination of the information or copying of this
> message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please
> notify us immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you.
&

Re: [RE-wrenches] Big Ag water

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Just did one.

You have to do the math for costing the grid, a genset, and solar 
direct.
The genset usually wins if the grid is not an option. You can easily 
find/replace pumps that are not solar direct.


If you do the solar, you still need a genset and the electronics to 
support it.


It is not an easy thing to do if someone is not living there. Most Ag 
run big gensets if no grid is available.


If you can add the grid, it will improve the property for the owner. Not 
sure about that in California anymore.


Happy Hour !  Good luck !

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [2]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [3]  [2]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2023-11-08 1:23 pm, Bill Battagin via RE-wrenches wrote:


Ag water wrenches,

I've been asked about the feasibility of pumping 2,000 gallons/minute 
(mid-day) from a pond to open discharge at 40 feet of head, 1,000 ft 
run.  PV direct. Multiple Grundfos pumps?  Any experience appreciated


Bill

Feather River Solar Electric
4291 Nelson St. (Shipping)
5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)
Taylorsville, CA  95983
530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell)
CA. C10 Lic # 874049
Solar Powered since 1982
Home of the Sunny Side Up

[1]
Virus-free.www.avast.com [1]

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Wattnode AC Coupling Monitoring on Insight Cloud

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Hi Howie !

I see the same thing except if you read the last line, they are saying 
soon on the cloud. Good that it is working local though!


Version: v1.18 Build 041 [25 July 2023]
Please clear your web browser cache before logging in to web GUI.
Download the latest firmware (.epkg) from
https://solar.schneider-electric.com/product/conext-gateway/
https://solar.schneider-electric.com/product/insighthome-and-insightfacility-edgedevices/
Features
Summary of features
* Support for AC1 Generator
* Support WATTNODE CT3 setup to monitor AC coupled solar automatically
* Support for AC coupled power flow displayed on dashboard via WATTNODE
meter
* Add UI for XW Pro AC Output Voltage Calibration
* Support closed loop battery configuration pass through to MPPT
* Support to download HSM trace log file via web API
* Add battery temperature data on XW Pro status screen
* Support for operating without SD card
* Upgrade IotHubAgent to v3.1.8
* Support XW Pro 2.10 BN25
Summary of fixes provided:
* Fix for Modbus time registers returning fixed values
* Fix for value setting on "External Contactor"
* Fix for not being able to enable Grid support thru Insight Facility
* Fix for Aux Relay Time of Day Trigger not working issue
* Fix for Low Battery Cut out Warning Offset setting issue
* Fix for manual refresh causing XW parameters changes issue
* Fix for secondary XW Pro going back into grid forming when in standby 
mode

* Improvement for exported PDF file format
* Fix for TPM test failure issue
2 Conext(tm) Gateway Release Notes
Internal
* Improvement for WATTNODE device status page
* Change IEC 61727-2014 grid code name to IEC 61727-2004
Summary of new supported batteries:
* DISCOVER AES 44-48-3000
* DISCOVER AES 42-48-6650
* FortressPowerEvaultMax 18_5
* DISCOVER HELIOS 46-48-1540
* DISCOVER ELEMENT 48-48-5120
* PYLONTECH UP5000
* PYLONTECH US5000
* PYLONTECH PELIO
* HOMEGRID MQ_1
* HOMEGRID MQ_2
* HOMEGRID MQ_3
* HOMEGRID MQ_4
* HOMEGRID MQ_5
* HOMEGRID MQ_6
* HOMEGRID MQ_7
* HOMEGRID MQ_8
* HOMEGRID COMPACT
* EG4-LifePower4
* EG4-LL
* DEKA_DURATION_DD5300
Known Limitations
* Analog and Digital I/O is not supported
* After downgrading an XW device, the gateway must be restarted
* Upgrading from v1.07 and earlier to v1.08 and later will cause the 
cloud to be

disabled, requiring the user to re-enable the cloud via the Web UI
* The gateway does not have a web server trusted root certificate
* PDF Generation does not work correctly in Internet Explorer
* Temperature will not be shown in Battery Summary page if only MPPT 
device

installed BTS (Battery Temperature Sensor).
* Upgrade from old version to v1.18 may cause the BMS setup status 
change from

"successful" to "modified", re-apply it, or leave it alone.
* After changing or applying BMS setup, refreshing configuration is 
required to

make the UI configuration match device value.
* AC coupled power flow on InsightCloud & InsightMobile will be coming 
soon.


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2023-10-26 9:26 am, Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches wrote:


Hi All,

Has anyone successfully implemented the new AC coupled monitoring 
function using a Wattnode meter (Gateway firmware V1.18) so that it 
shows up on Insight Cloud? I have been able to get it to display on 
Insight Local, but not on the Cloud.  I have spent perhaps 20-30 hours 
on getting this function to work (working with Eric Bentsen as well as 
countless other Schneider support personnel). I've been told that if it 
shows up on Insight Local but not the Cloud, then that is an issue at 
Schneider's end. Now I'm wondering if there is something about the oler 
Gateway (not a "Home" device) which is causing this issue. Just 
wondering if anyone has been successful at implementing this feature so 
that it shows up on the Cloud.

Thanks, Howie Michaelson
Sun Catcher
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Off Grid, Cloudy Days, Solar Tilt Question

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Kirk,

Can you reference your paper on this? So many variables and each 
location will be different. Most dual axis
trackers can always be left flat or any angle so that does not make 
sense to me.


You have to design for winter offgrid if the location is worth it. Or, 
alot of hours on a genset.


Super large arrays in your area will help give you more days/hours 
before you need the iron genoa.
You have to decide if it is worth the money. The home has to have the 
ability to shed some loads also.


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [2]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [3]  [2]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2023-10-25 3:46 pm, Kirk Bailey via RE-wrenches wrote:


Hi All!

We don't do a lot of pure off-grid systems and I recently ran across 
something I wanted to run by folks with more experience in this area: 
Optimal array tilt for our very cloudy PNW winters!


My understanding has always been that latitude plus 10-15 degrees was 
the best tilt to address our winter energy shortage. However a paper I 
recently read (1), makes a compelling case for a much shallower tilt in 
situations where the cloud cover is so heavy that "diffuse" solar 
radiation is all that makes it through. They indicate that under those 
conditions a horizontal array will produce significantly more energy 
than even a two-axis tracker!


Given that the challenge in our off-grid setups always seems to be 
making it through the really cloudy stretches, and that there is 
usually enough energy the rest of the time, should we be installing 
off-grid arrays at a shallower angle?


Anyone tried this?

Kirk Bailey

k...@abundantsolar.com

www.abundantsolar.com [1]

(1) Kelly, N.A., Gibson, T.L, 2011, Increasing the solar photovoltaic 
energy capture on sunny and cloudy days. Solar Energy 85, 111-125.


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Re: [RE-wrenches] XW Drop in replacement inverter

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

On the latest firmware V1.18 both AC1 and AC2 have the same wide 
frequency and voltage choices.


This is for watt-node in a self consumption grid mode and also for 
adding AC coupling to show up on conext

insight on or offgrid.

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2023-10-25 12:06 pm, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches 
wrote:


Not getting this Kevin, AC2 has always been the generator input as it 
allows wider frequency and voltage settings for drifting gensets.


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
[1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2023-10-25 11:57 am, Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches wrote:

Physically it is all the same. Software is way more complex. As Dave 
mentioned, you have to follow the commissioning process.


AC1 will no longer accept generator input, it's grid-only now. So if 
you have a genset you will need to move that to AC2. This is one of 
the most irritating changes with the XWPro. Makes dual-generator 
configs a lot more complex now.


Kevin

From: RE-wrenches  On 
Behalf Of Chad Waits via RE-wrenches

Sent: October-24-23 2:18 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Chad Waits 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] XW Drop in replacement inverter

Wrenches,

We have a client that had us construct a solar trailer for them back 
in 2014-2015 timeframe. The Current XW6048-120/240-60 is cooked and 
I'm wondering if the Schneider rep (or you savvy off grid guys) on 
here could tell me if the newer XW Pro 6.8kW 120/240 is an exact drop 
in replacement for a system including the the old power distribution 
panel accessories.


Thanks!

Chad Waits
President - Net Zero Solar

945 W. Silverlake Rd, Tucson AZ 85713

Cell: (520) 270-4873

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Re: [RE-wrenches] XW Drop in replacement inverter

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Not getting this Kevin, AC2 has always been the generator input as it 
allows wider frequency and voltage settings for drifting gensets.


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2023-10-25 11:57 am, Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches wrote:

Physically it is all the same. Software is way more complex. As Dave 
mentioned, you have to follow the commissioning process.


AC1 will no longer accept generator input, it's grid-only now. So if 
you have a genset you will need to move that to AC2. This is one of the 
most irritating changes with the XWPro. Makes dual-generator configs a 
lot more complex now.


Kevin

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf 
Of Chad Waits via RE-wrenches

Sent: October-24-23 2:18 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Chad Waits 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] XW Drop in replacement inverter

Wrenches,

We have a client that had us construct a solar trailer for them back in 
2014-2015 timeframe. The Current XW6048-120/240-60 is cooked and I'm 
wondering if the Schneider rep (or you savvy off grid guys) on here 
could tell me if the newer XW Pro 6.8kW 120/240 is an exact drop in 
replacement for a system including the the old power distribution panel 
accessories.


Thanks!

Chad Waits
President - Net Zero Solar

945 W. Silverlake Rd, Tucson AZ 85713

Cell: (520) 270-4873

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Re: [RE-wrenches] XW Drop in replacement inverter

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Hi Chad,

Yes XWpro 6848 is a drop-in  replacement. Exact fit & all connections 
are the same as way back to 2006 when the "grey box" XW 6048 was sold. 
You need a connext insight home or facility device to do the initial 
configuration.


It is a one time need for the insight home device to set the mode for 
offgrid. There are numerous new settings
that will not work with the old SCP he has, but you do not need them for 
a replacement.


You should not need to change firmware either as long as the system was 
working. Most new firmware is for the closed loop support of 10 
different LFP battery systems and new grid features. There is one LFP 
battery Discover AES that all settings are hard written and read by 
connecting one xanbus network cable.


https://solar.se.com/us/en/xw-pro-commissioning-guide/

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2023-10-24 2:17 pm, Chad Waits via RE-wrenches wrote:


Wrenches,

We have a client that had us construct a solar trailer for them back in 
2014-2015 timeframe. The Current XW6048-120/240-60 is cooked and I'm 
wondering if the Schneider rep (or you savvy off grid guys) on here 
could tell me if the newer XW Pro 6.8kW 120/240 is an exact drop in 
replacement for a system including the the old power distribution panel 
accessories.


Thanks!

Chad Waits
President - Net Zero Solar

945 W. Silverlake Rd, Tucson AZ 85713
Cell: (520) 270-4873

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