Re: [RE-wrenches] Retail price lists

[Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches]

Every time in the past that I have “priced out” a project, the client has 
shopped it out  including purchasing some equipment & then expecting me to 
still do the install. It is not worth the headache. Relax and let these people 
go. I did one 2 years ago (can you say Amnesia?) and it turned into they bought 
equipment from 4 venders, had plans done by an electrician that was not 
experienced enough to do plans, had someone else pull the permit. 

I got to talk with our inspector & his description of the end installation was 
“what a S$%$T” show”.

Sell an installed package.

 

Folks we are professionals who are in business to earn a living & a retirement, 
we deserve respect, so many people think that solar is this “hobby type of 
thing” & not a real business because they managed to install a PV module on 
their van with a battery & an internet inverter & they did not blow anything up 
(of course all with no fusing).

As stated below we have an investment bigtime in shop, support, insurances, 
vehicles, tools, etc. …

 

Treat yourself with respect and work for people who appreciate & respect you. 
You deserve it!

 

All of you have a really great weekend not working! You have earned it.

 

 

 

Dana Orzel -  E - d...@solarwork.com -  C - 208.721.7003

 

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Tump 
via RE-wrenches
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2023 4:58 AM
To: offgridso...@sti.net; RE-wrenches 
Cc: Tump 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Retail price lists

 

We are in Biz to make . I do not concern myself w/ what others or internet 
pricing, can you say AltE?

You are a professional we have insurance, equipment , inventory & CE 
requirements. The client is covering those unseen costs too, as well as the 
equipment you are selling. We/you have to include the cost of babysitting, as 
you will always have those phone calls/ DOB equipment etc.

I explain to my off grid clients that my pricing includes the inevitable phone 
time for a year. 

Remember some of the best jobs are the ones you DONT get! 

On May 18, 2023, at 11:48 AM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > 
wrote:

 

NAZ is an extremely well run company !  Love those guys!

On 2023-05-18 8:42 am, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches wrote:

My question is: how/why is it that NAZ and the likes sell equipment for less 
than what I pay wholesale? 

 

On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 4:15 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > 
wrote:

Here is how I explain it to customers. Straight out of college, I was a 
financial analyst for an aerospace company working on government contracts. We 
did "cost-plus" contracts, which is what the client is essentially looking for. 
The government ended up paying too much for things this way. A fixed-price 
competitive contract is all the transparency a client needs.

 

Another way I put it is that we charge what the market allows, and if that is 
not enough for us to provide an excellent customer experience, we simply pass 
on the job. 

 

No line item prices. The only things we might line item are permit costs and 
engineering fees for non-standard projects.


Jason Szumlanski 

Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956

 

On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 6:56 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > 
wrote:

Wrenches 

Bottom line package price, all inclusive one number, I list all the major 
components inverter, modules ect. and all of what is included permits 
engineering thats it system cost, tax incentive, rebate (if any) no a la carte 
here sorry.

But thats just me! 

 

On Tue, May 16, 2023 at 8:11 AM Jay via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > 
wrote:

Hi All 

I have a question about how wrenches are dealing with charging for equipment as 
most prices of most equipment on line at or below wholesale. 

If people are marking it up, how much? what metric are people using?  I think 
victron might be the only company I've actually seen a retail price list for in 
years. 
Maybe it's just marking up labor costs a lot?

I'm not doing all that much work these days but enough that I'm trying to 
figure this out. 

Thanks
Jay


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Retail price lists

[Tump via RE-wrenches]

We are in Biz to make . I do not concern myself w/ what others or internet 
pricing, can you say AltE?
You are a professional we have insurance, equipment , inventory & CE 
requirements. The client is covering those unseen costs too, as well as the 
equipment you are selling. We/you have to include the cost of babysitting, as 
you will always have those phone calls/ DOB equipment etc.
I explain to my off grid clients that my pricing includes the inevitable phone 
time for a year. 
Remember some of the best jobs are the ones you DONT get! 
> On May 18, 2023, at 11:48 AM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> NAZ is an extremely well run company !  Love those guys!
> 
> On 2023-05-18 8:42 am, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches wrote:
> 
>> My question is: how/why is it that NAZ and the likes sell equipment for less 
>> than what I pay wholesale? 
>> 
>> On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 4:15 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches 
>> > > wrote:
>> Here is how I explain it to customers. Straight out of college, I was a 
>> financial analyst for an aerospace company working on government contracts. 
>> We did "cost-plus" contracts, which is what the client is essentially 
>> looking for. The government ended up paying too much for things this way. A 
>> fixed-price competitive contract is all the transparency a client needs.
>>  
>> Another way I put it is that we charge what the market allows, and if that 
>> is not enough for us to provide an excellent customer experience, we simply 
>> pass on the job. 
>>  
>> No line item prices. The only things we might line item are permit costs and 
>> engineering fees for non-standard projects.
>> 
>> Jason Szumlanski
>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
>> 
>> On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 6:56 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches 
>> > > wrote:
>> Wrenches
>> Bottom line package price, all inclusive one number, I list all the major 
>> components inverter, modules ect. and all of what is included permits 
>> engineering thats it system cost, tax incentive, rebate (if any) no a la 
>> carte here sorry.
>> But thats just me! 
>> 
>> On Tue, May 16, 2023 at 8:11 AM Jay via RE-wrenches 
>> > > wrote:
>> Hi All 
>> 
>> I have a question about how wrenches are dealing with charging for equipment 
>> as most prices of most equipment on line at or below wholesale. 
>> 
>> If people are marking it up, how much? what metric are people using?  I 
>> think victron might be the only company I've actually seen a retail price 
>> list for in years. 
>> Maybe it's just marking up labor costs a lot?
>> 
>> I'm not doing all that much work these days but enough that I'm trying to 
>> figure this out. 
>> 
>> Thanks
>> Jay
>> 
>> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Retail price lists

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

NAZ is an extremely well run company !  Love those guys!

On 2023-05-18 8:42 am, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches wrote:

My question is: how/why is it that NAZ and the likes sell equipment for 
less than what I pay wholesale?


On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 4:15 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Here is how I explain it to customers. Straight out of college, I was a 
financial analyst for an aerospace company working on government 
contracts. We did "cost-plus" contracts, which is what the client is 
essentially looking for. The government ended up paying too much for 
things this way. A fixed-price competitive contract is all the 
transparency a client needs.


Another way I put it is that we charge what the market allows, and if 
that is not enough for us to provide an excellent customer experience, 
we simply pass on the job.


No line item prices. The only things we might line item are permit 
costs and engineering fees for non-standard projects.


Jason Szumlanski
Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956

On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 6:56 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:

Wrenches
Bottom line package price, all inclusive one number, I list all the 
major components inverter, modules ect. and all of what is included 
permits engineering thats it system cost, tax incentive, rebate (if 
any) no a la carte here sorry.

But thats just me!

On Tue, May 16, 2023 at 8:11 AM Jay via RE-wrenches 
 wrote: Hi All


I have a question about how wrenches are dealing with charging for 
equipment as most prices of most equipment on line at or below 
wholesale.


If people are marking it up, how much? what metric are people using?  I 
think victron might be the only company I've actually seen a retail 
price list for in years.

Maybe it's just marking up labor costs a lot?

I'm not doing all that much work these days but enough that I'm trying 
to figure this out.


Thanks
Jay

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  --

Michael Morningstar

Morningstar Electric

PO Box 1494

Mount Shasta, CA 96067

530-921-0560

mjmornings...@gmail.com

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Retail price lists

[Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches]

If a customer wants to use some of their own parts, I'll need to add some
amount of hours for managing them and their purchase list, and make it
clear in the contract that issues arising from incomplete or incorrect
parts is on them.
Or you can do what I saw at my mechanic shop the other day: Labor =
$120/hr. If you bring your own parts, labor = $150/hr.
Cheers,
Dave

On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 11:43 AM Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> My question is: how/why is it that NAZ and the likes sell equipment for
> less than what I pay wholesale?
>
> On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 4:15 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Here is how I explain it to customers. Straight out of college, I was a
>> financial analyst for an aerospace company working on government contracts.
>> We did "cost-plus" contracts, which is what the client is essentially
>> looking for. The government ended up paying too much for things this way. A
>> fixed-price competitive contract is all the transparency a client needs.
>>
>> Another way I put it is that we charge what the market allows, and if
>> that is not enough for us to provide an excellent customer experience, we
>> simply pass on the job.
>>
>> No line item prices. The only things we might line item are permit costs
>> and engineering fees for non-standard projects.
>>
>> Jason Szumlanski
>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 6:56 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Wrenches
>>> Bottom line package price, all inclusive one number, I list all the
>>> major components inverter, modules ect. and all of what is included permits
>>> engineering thats it system cost, tax incentive, rebate (if any) no a la
>>> carte here sorry.
>>> But thats just me!
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 16, 2023 at 8:11 AM Jay via RE-wrenches <
>>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
 Hi All

 I have a question about how wrenches are dealing with charging for
 equipment as most prices of most equipment on line at or below wholesale.

 If people are marking it up, how much? what metric are people using?  I
 think victron might be the only company I’ve actually seen a retail price
 list for in years.
 Maybe it’s just marking up labor costs a lot?

 I’m not doing all that much work these days but enough that I’m trying
 to figure this out.

 Thanks
 Jay


 ___
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 http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

 Check out or update participant bios:
 http://www.members.re-wrenches.org

 ___
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>>>
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>>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
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>
> --
>
> Michael Morningstar
>
>
> Morningstar Electric
>
> PO Box 1494
>
> Mount Shasta, CA 96067
>
> 530-921-0560
>
> mjmornings...@gmail.com
>
>
> 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Retail price lists

[Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches]

My question is: how/why is it that NAZ and the likes sell equipment for
less than what I pay wholesale?

On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 4:15 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Here is how I explain it to customers. Straight out of college, I was a
> financial analyst for an aerospace company working on government contracts.
> We did "cost-plus" contracts, which is what the client is essentially
> looking for. The government ended up paying too much for things this way. A
> fixed-price competitive contract is all the transparency a client needs.
>
> Another way I put it is that we charge what the market allows, and if that
> is not enough for us to provide an excellent customer experience, we simply
> pass on the job.
>
> No line item prices. The only things we might line item are permit costs
> and engineering fees for non-standard projects.
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
>
>
> On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 6:56 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Wrenches
>> Bottom line package price, all inclusive one number, I list all the major
>> components inverter, modules ect. and all of what is included permits
>> engineering thats it system cost, tax incentive, rebate (if any) no a la
>> carte here sorry.
>> But thats just me!
>>
>> On Tue, May 16, 2023 at 8:11 AM Jay via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All
>>>
>>> I have a question about how wrenches are dealing with charging for
>>> equipment as most prices of most equipment on line at or below wholesale.
>>>
>>> If people are marking it up, how much? what metric are people using?  I
>>> think victron might be the only company I’ve actually seen a retail price
>>> list for in years.
>>> Maybe it’s just marking up labor costs a lot?
>>>
>>> I’m not doing all that much work these days but enough that I’m trying
>>> to figure this out.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Jay
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>
>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try
>>> the other:
>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>
>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> ___
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>> ___
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>

-- 

Michael Morningstar


Morningstar Electric

PO Box 1494

Mount Shasta, CA 96067

530-921-0560

mjmornings...@gmail.com
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Retail price lists

[Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches]

Here is how I explain it to customers. Straight out of college, I was a
financial analyst for an aerospace company working on government contracts.
We did "cost-plus" contracts, which is what the client is essentially
looking for. The government ended up paying too much for things this way. A
fixed-price competitive contract is all the transparency a client needs.

Another way I put it is that we charge what the market allows, and if that
is not enough for us to provide an excellent customer experience, we simply
pass on the job.

No line item prices. The only things we might line item are permit costs
and engineering fees for non-standard projects.

Jason Szumlanski
Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956


On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 6:56 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Wrenches
> Bottom line package price, all inclusive one number, I list all the major
> components inverter, modules ect. and all of what is included permits
> engineering thats it system cost, tax incentive, rebate (if any) no a la
> carte here sorry.
> But thats just me!
>
> On Tue, May 16, 2023 at 8:11 AM Jay via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi All
>>
>> I have a question about how wrenches are dealing with charging for
>> equipment as most prices of most equipment on line at or below wholesale.
>>
>> If people are marking it up, how much? what metric are people using?  I
>> think victron might be the only company I’ve actually seen a retail price
>> list for in years.
>> Maybe it’s just marking up labor costs a lot?
>>
>> I’m not doing all that much work these days but enough that I’m trying to
>> figure this out.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Jay
>>
>>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Retail price lists

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches
Bottom line package price, all inclusive one number, I list all the major
components inverter, modules ect. and all of what is included permits
engineering thats it system cost, tax incentive, rebate (if any) no a la
carte here sorry.
But thats just me!

On Tue, May 16, 2023 at 8:11 AM Jay via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi All
>
> I have a question about how wrenches are dealing with charging for
> equipment as most prices of most equipment on line at or below wholesale.
>
> If people are marking it up, how much? what metric are people using?  I
> think victron might be the only company I’ve actually seen a retail price
> list for in years.
> Maybe it’s just marking up labor costs a lot?
>
> I’m not doing all that much work these days but enough that I’m trying to
> figure this out.
>
> Thanks
> Jay
>
>
> ___
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>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
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> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Retail price lists

[Kristopher Schmid via RE-wrenches]

I won't disclose my markup, but I can tell you that I stopped showing
itemized prices on my bids years ago for exactly this reason.  The customer
only sees the final bid amount.  If they want to shop around and buy it on
their own, they will have to self install or find another installer.  Just
my $.02


Shine On!

Kris Schmid
Legacy Solar, LLC
137 West 1st Avenue
Luck, WI 54853
www.legacysolar.com
715-653-4295
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician
BSEE


On Tue, May 16, 2023 at 10:11 AM Jay via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi All
>
> I have a question about how wrenches are dealing with charging for
> equipment as most prices of most equipment on line at or below wholesale.
>
> If people are marking it up, how much? what metric are people using?  I
> think victron might be the only company I’ve actually seen a retail price
> list for in years.
> Maybe it’s just marking up labor costs a lot?
>
> I’m not doing all that much work these days but enough that I’m trying to
> figure this out.
>
> Thanks
> Jay
>
>
> ___
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>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
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> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
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[RE-wrenches] Retail price lists

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi All 

I have a question about how wrenches are dealing with charging for equipment as 
most prices of most equipment on line at or below wholesale. 

If people are marking it up, how much? what metric are people using?  I think 
victron might be the only company I’ve actually seen a retail price list for in 
years. 
Maybe it’s just marking up labor costs a lot?

I’m not doing all that much work these days but enough that I’m trying to 
figure this out. 

Thanks
Jay


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Re: [RE-wrenches] retail price lists

[jay peltz]

Hi Tom and all

Thanks for the price list. 

I'm sorry, I guess my question should have been more clear. 

Why is it that some of our manufacturing companies don't publish retail price 
lists, but actually have them?

There must be a reason? ( however dopey)

Thanks

Jay



On Aug 6, 2013, at 7:30 AM, Tom Duffy  wrote:

> Jay
> 
> I have sent you an OutBack retail price list in a separate e-mail let me know 
> if you don't get it.
> 
> Tom Duffy
> Senior Solar Design Engineer
> 
> Toll Free 888-895-8179
> t...@thesolar.biz
> Customer Service and Accounting 888-895-6810 
> Grid tie sales 888-895-7847 
> Off Grid sales 888-895-4058 
> Other Product Sales 888-895-9612 
> Central America Sales (Panama) 507-6-126-1253 
> Shipping and Receiving 888-895-6497 
> Tech Support 888-895-8179
> SKYPE:  thesolarbiz
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] retail price lists

[Tom Duffy]

Jay

I have sent you an OutBack retail price list in a separate e-mail let me know 
if you don't get it.

Tom Duffy
Senior Solar Design Engineer

Toll Free 888-895-8179
t...@thesolar.biz
Customer Service and Accounting 888-895-6810 
Grid tie sales 888-895-7847 
Off Grid sales 888-895-4058 
Other Product Sales 888-895-9612 
Central America Sales (Panama) 507-6-126-1253 
Shipping and Receiving 888-895-6497 
Tech Support 888-895-8179
SKYPE:  thesolarbiz

-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of jay peltz
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2013 6:37 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] retail price lists

Anybody know the logic on why some manufacturers don't publish a retail price 
list?
For example, Outback?

thx,

jay

peltz power
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[RE-wrenches] retail price lists

[jay peltz]

Anybody know the logic on why some manufacturers don't publish a retail price 
list?
For example, Outback?

thx,

jay

peltz power
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