RE: 686 distro. [Was: What about Mandrake?]
On Wed, 29 Dec 1999, Brian Ivey wrote: > Could someone please explain why a 686 distribution is needed? How it would > be different from the normal RedHat distribution? It would run somewhat faster on PPro/Pentium III/Pentium III and probably K7 and Cyrix 6x86Mx, but wouldn't run at all on 386/486/Pentium/K5/K6/6x86. The idea is to just recompile everything, and telling the compiler it may generate instrictions specific to 686 processors, and to optimize alignments etc for the newer processor cores. Red Hat currently does not build a 686 version because - we want to remain compatible with older machines (writing this from a K6 (non-686), using a 486SX mail server to relay it) - the compiler currently included in Red Hat Linux, egcs 1.1.2, can't handle 686 optimizations well; the performance gain would be rather small. (Actually some packages compiled with egcs and i686 optimizations are actually SLOWER than non-optimized packages). It simply isn't worth the additional work/maintenance. gcc 2.95.2, the current version of the compiler, is quite a bit better at optimizations, though. LLaP bero -- Nobody will ever need more than 640 kB RAM. -- Bill Gates, 1983 Windows 98 requires 16 MB RAM. -- Bill Gates, 1999 Nobody will ever need Windows 98. -- logical conclusion -- To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" as the Subject.
RE: 686 distro. [Was: What about Mandrake?]
*** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 29/12/99 at 10:37 Brian Ivey wrote: >Dear List, > >I am fairly new to Linux/RedHat. I've been trying to follow this thread, but >do not understand it. > >Could someone please explain why a 686 distribution is needed? its not really needed, but may be explained this way.after using Linux for a little while, you will probably become a power user and have your system doing all sorts of things, also you will possibly want to squeeze the most performance from the system so it runs at its fastest. to do this the software packages as RPMs can be rebuilt and "blueprinted" if you like for optimum performance against a given CPU type How it would >be different from the normal RedHat distribution? faster > >Thanks, >Brian Ivey > I can hear"why don't Redhat do it themselves" , its a good question, Bernhards post may give some insight here, also RH need to cover a very wide base, and really don't need to confuse things for newcomers possibly Regards Greg Wright IT Consultant Sydney Australia -- *** Please trim any replies *** *** Please turn off HTML in your email *** *** Please don't use the list for test messages *** *** Why not read the archives? http://moongroup.com/redhat.phtml *** -- To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" as the Subject.
RE: 686 distro. [Was: What about Mandrake?]
Dear List, I am fairly new to Linux/RedHat. I've been trying to follow this thread, but do not understand it. Could someone please explain why a 686 distribution is needed? How it would be different from the normal RedHat distribution? Thanks, Brian Ivey -- To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" as the Subject.
Re: 686 distro. [Was: What about Mandrake?]
Ward William E PHDN wrote: > > Any chance that you might also "back it down a notch" and compile it > with the 586 flags? For those of us with Cyrix and Pentiums, of course... > My machines are MII-300, MII-233, PR233MX, 2xP133, PPro200, 8xP100, so I > would obviously be able to benefit big from something like that, whereas > for a 686 distro I wouldn't. Just as a side-note. You would benifit from i686 opt on the PPro200. PPro, PII, PIII all have the same basic core., the P6 core. PII == PPro w/MMX PIII == PII w/SSE. Apart from other differences. The PPro has integrated full speed L2 cache for instance where the PII has external half-speed L2 cache. The PIII comes in both flavors nowadays, etc etc etc... But the basic core is the same. // Stefan -- To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" as the Subject.
RE: 686 distro. [Was: What about Mandrake?]
I'd love to help out with this too, but unfortunately I haven't much experience with building rpms. anyone know of some good resources? I wasn't really able to digest the how-to... sugarboy -- From: Michael J. McGillick[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 12:24 AM To: redhat-list (Mailing list) Subject: Re: 686 distro. [Was: What about Mandrake?] Gustav: I would love to get involved with something like this. I've already started to put together my own i686 iso, but I've run into problems with some of the RPMs rebuilding. If anyone else is interested in working on this, and possibly doing some other modifications (IE. reducing the kernel to one RPM instead of 9 or 10 so a kernel upgrade would be to install only one new RPM, etc.), please count me in. I have storage space for RPMs, and can work some nights on helping out with this. - Mike On Mon, 27 Dec 1999, Gustav Schaffter wrote: > Hi, > > I'd *love* to see a 686 compiled RH distro. It's not just Linux that > goes through the evolution. So does the hardware available in hardware > stores. > > In a way, I can understand that RedHat doesn't want to go this way, > because then they would also have to provide a 586 distro etc, etc. And > when would they be able to discontinue the 386 compiled distro? Etc. > > But I think it could be done as a distributed volonteer developer > project. As long as RedHat doesn't want to do it themself, I don't see > why they should (or could?) oppose to such a project. Maybe that RedHat > would like to participate, if it's run by volonteers? > > Of course, there need to be a project definition, organization, > objective and scope definition, plus a serious coordination effort to > fulfill the sake. > > Idea: Maybe(!!) the objective would be to always maintain a distro > optimized for the very latest available Intel platform? > > If someone organized a distributed project to do this I would like to > participate. (Does it already exist?) But, I wouldn't find time to > manage it. Not even to participate in project management. I'd be happy > to maintain the latest 686 rpms for a limited and well defined subset of > the necessary packages. Kinda 20 - 30 rpms. Maybe more. I would also be > happy to provide limited space on my ftp server. Maybe 10 - 20 MB, but > no more. I don't see why such an effort couldn't even bring us a 686 > compiled .iso of the RH setup. > > As I already stated, it would require someone else to organize the > effort, though. > > I'm aware that many people run Linux on 'old' hardware. I fully respect > this need, which is somewhat proven by the fact that I intend to install > RH6.1 on a few 486's laying around (when I find the time for it) and I > agree that there should be a 386 compatible distro available. Still, > nobody(?) *buys* a 386 or 486 system today. > > Regards > Gustav > > -- > pgp = Pretty Good Privacy. > > To get my public pgp key, send an e-mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Visit my web site at http://www.schaffter.com > > > -- > To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" > as the Subject. > -- To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" as the Subject. application/ms-tnef
Re: 686 distro. [Was: What about Mandrake?]
On Tue, 28 Dec 1999, Gustav Schaffter wrote: > I know that Bernhard Rosenkraenzer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> has been working on > this task before. He has defined a number of packages that had > compilation problems and published the list on a page at the redhat > site. Unfortunately, I've lost the URL for his page. Bernhard? Do you > read this? Could you please provide us with your insights in this? There are no compilation problems if you stick with egcs, but the i686 optimizations in egcs suck. If you want real optimizations, you should use gcc 2.95.2 (or a 2.96 CVS snapshot... 2.96 has much better optimizations, but will (currently) generate broken code. 2.95.2 is stable.). - unfortunately, some bad code doesn't compile with gcc 2.95.2. In most cases, the patches are trivial though - I've put the ones I've built up at http://people.redhat.com/bero/gcc295. LLaP bero -- Nobody will ever need more than 640 kB RAM. -- Bill Gates, 1983 Windows 98 requires 16 MB RAM. -- Bill Gates, 1999 Nobody will ever need Windows 98. -- logical conclusion -- To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" as the Subject.
RE: 686 distro. [Was: What about Mandrake?]
Bill: My guess is that if the SRPM can be recompiled as an i686, a simple run of the command again should allow for the recompilation of an 1586 with no problems. Possibly we could look at a 2-CD set kind of thing that has i586 on one, and i686 on the other. Just an idea. - Mike On Tue, 28 Dec 1999, Ward William E PHDN wrote: > Any chance that you might also "back it down a notch" and compile it > with the 586 flags? For those of us with Cyrix and Pentiums, of course... > My machines are MII-300, MII-233, PR233MX, 2xP133, PPro200, 8xP100, so I > would obviously be able to benefit big from something like that, whereas > for a 686 distro I wouldn't. > > Bill Ward > > -Original Message- > From: Allen Bolderoff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 4:36 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: recipient.list.not.shown; @nswcphdn.navy.mil > Subject: Re: 686 distro. [Was: What about Mandrake?] > > > man, I didn't realise this would be such a popular thing. > > I have plenty of disk no problems. > > I am just overwhelmed that there is such a huge response. > > What I plan to do, is to i686ify as many packages as will do so, whilst > keeping it redhat, I will not change the installer, or anything else, just > integrate the 686 packages where possible. > > some may not compile, and as such will stay i386. > > Comments? > > > > Allen, > > > > I'm sure you realize that a lot of people are looking forward to test > > the results of your efforts, me included. Be prepared that your site > > will probably be a hit site (pun intended) once the .iso is ready for > > publishing. > > > > Do you have disk space? Unfortunately, I cannot provide mirroring > > capabilities for an .iso myself, but maybe someone else has the resource > > for it? (I'm at a web hotel with 50MB disk quota.) > > > > Can we provide you with any other help? Pls, don't hesitate to ask here. > > > > I know that Bernhard Rosenkraenzer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> has been working on > > this task before. He has defined a number of packages that had > > compilation problems and published the list on a page at the redhat > > site. Unfortunately, I've lost the URL for his page. Bernhard? Do you > > read this? Could you please provide us with your insights in this? > > > > Best regards > > Gustav > > > > Allen Bolderoff wrote: > > > > > > I have actually started to do this. > > > > > > within about 4 weeks I will have ISO images available (time permitting) > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Allen > > > > -- > > pgp = Pretty Good Privacy. > > > > To get my public pgp key, send an e-mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Visit my web site at http://www.schaffter.com > > > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" > > as the Subject. > > > > -- > +++ > Allen Bolderoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > LNC - Redhat and Linux, help and commentary http://linux.netnerve.com > CTPC - Caffeine - get it here: http://www.coffee-tea-pots-cups.com/ > +++ > GPG fingerprint = CBB0 8626 702C 3D01 B5AD A54A DC2C 93B7 3E4B 6472 > +++ > > > > -- > To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" > as the Subject. > > > -- > To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" > as the Subject. > -- To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" as the Subject.
Re: 686 distro. [Was: What about Mandrake?]
Allen: I've started to do this myself. In addition, some of the RPMs that didn't recompile cleanly on a stock Red Hat 6.1 system required that I go in and make a few corrections in the .tar.gz source. These were minor corrections, but get rid of many of the warnings when these RPMs recompile. I would love to work with you on this and share any notes you might have. I've docuemnted everything I've done, including exactly what lines in what files I've modified, what the old code was and what the new change was. even if I don't manage to get this done with the 6.1 release, I'm sure the information will be useful for the 6.2 release and later. Also, Chuck mentioned that they have an upcoming announcement on Jan 4th about a project similar to this. I'm anxious to see what it is. - Mike On Tue, 28 Dec 1999, Allen Bolderoff wrote: > man, I didn't realise this would be such a popular thing. > > I have plenty of disk no problems. > > I am just overwhelmed that there is such a huge response. > > What I plan to do, is to i686ify as many packages as will do so, whilst > keeping it redhat, I will not change the installer, or anything else, just > integrate the 686 packages where possible. > > some may not compile, and as such will stay i386. > > Comments? > > > > Allen, > > > > I'm sure you realize that a lot of people are looking forward to test > > the results of your efforts, me included. Be prepared that your site > > will probably be a hit site (pun intended) once the .iso is ready for > > publishing. > > > > Do you have disk space? Unfortunately, I cannot provide mirroring > > capabilities for an .iso myself, but maybe someone else has the resource > > for it? (I'm at a web hotel with 50MB disk quota.) > > > > Can we provide you with any other help? Pls, don't hesitate to ask here. > > > > I know that Bernhard Rosenkraenzer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> has been working on > > this task before. He has defined a number of packages that had > > compilation problems and published the list on a page at the redhat > > site. Unfortunately, I've lost the URL for his page. Bernhard? Do you > > read this? Could you please provide us with your insights in this? > > > > Best regards > > Gustav > > > > Allen Bolderoff wrote: > > > > > > I have actually started to do this. > > > > > > within about 4 weeks I will have ISO images available (time permitting) > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Allen > > > > -- > > pgp = Pretty Good Privacy. > > > > To get my public pgp key, send an e-mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Visit my web site at http://www.schaffter.com > > > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" > > as the Subject. > > > > -- > +++ > Allen Bolderoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > LNC - Redhat and Linux, help and commentary http://linux.netnerve.com > CTPC - Caffeine - get it here: http://www.coffee-tea-pots-cups.com/ > +++ > GPG fingerprint = CBB0 8626 702C 3D01 B5AD A54A DC2C 93B7 3E4B 6472 > +++ > > > > -- > To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" > as the Subject. > -- To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" as the Subject.
RE: 686 distro. [Was: What about Mandrake?]
Any chance that you might also "back it down a notch" and compile it with the 586 flags? For those of us with Cyrix and Pentiums, of course... My machines are MII-300, MII-233, PR233MX, 2xP133, PPro200, 8xP100, so I would obviously be able to benefit big from something like that, whereas for a 686 distro I wouldn't. Bill Ward -Original Message- From: Allen Bolderoff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 4:36 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: recipient.list.not.shown; @nswcphdn.navy.mil Subject: Re: 686 distro. [Was: What about Mandrake?] man, I didn't realise this would be such a popular thing. I have plenty of disk no problems. I am just overwhelmed that there is such a huge response. What I plan to do, is to i686ify as many packages as will do so, whilst keeping it redhat, I will not change the installer, or anything else, just integrate the 686 packages where possible. some may not compile, and as such will stay i386. Comments? > Allen, > > I'm sure you realize that a lot of people are looking forward to test > the results of your efforts, me included. Be prepared that your site > will probably be a hit site (pun intended) once the .iso is ready for > publishing. > > Do you have disk space? Unfortunately, I cannot provide mirroring > capabilities for an .iso myself, but maybe someone else has the resource > for it? (I'm at a web hotel with 50MB disk quota.) > > Can we provide you with any other help? Pls, don't hesitate to ask here. > > I know that Bernhard Rosenkraenzer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> has been working on > this task before. He has defined a number of packages that had > compilation problems and published the list on a page at the redhat > site. Unfortunately, I've lost the URL for his page. Bernhard? Do you > read this? Could you please provide us with your insights in this? > > Best regards > Gustav > > Allen Bolderoff wrote: > > > > I have actually started to do this. > > > > within about 4 weeks I will have ISO images available (time permitting) > > > > Regards > > > > Allen > > -- > pgp = Pretty Good Privacy. > > To get my public pgp key, send an e-mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Visit my web site at http://www.schaffter.com > > > -- > To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" > as the Subject. > -- +++ Allen Bolderoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LNC - Redhat and Linux, help and commentary http://linux.netnerve.com CTPC - Caffeine - get it here: http://www.coffee-tea-pots-cups.com/ +++ GPG fingerprint = CBB0 8626 702C 3D01 B5AD A54A DC2C 93B7 3E4B 6472 +++ -- To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" as the Subject. -- To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" as the Subject.
Re: 686 distro. [Was: What about Mandrake?]
man, I didn't realise this would be such a popular thing. I have plenty of disk no problems. I am just overwhelmed that there is such a huge response. What I plan to do, is to i686ify as many packages as will do so, whilst keeping it redhat, I will not change the installer, or anything else, just integrate the 686 packages where possible. some may not compile, and as such will stay i386. Comments? > Allen, > > I'm sure you realize that a lot of people are looking forward to test > the results of your efforts, me included. Be prepared that your site > will probably be a hit site (pun intended) once the .iso is ready for > publishing. > > Do you have disk space? Unfortunately, I cannot provide mirroring > capabilities for an .iso myself, but maybe someone else has the resource > for it? (I'm at a web hotel with 50MB disk quota.) > > Can we provide you with any other help? Pls, don't hesitate to ask here. > > I know that Bernhard Rosenkraenzer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> has been working on > this task before. He has defined a number of packages that had > compilation problems and published the list on a page at the redhat > site. Unfortunately, I've lost the URL for his page. Bernhard? Do you > read this? Could you please provide us with your insights in this? > > Best regards > Gustav > > Allen Bolderoff wrote: > > > > I have actually started to do this. > > > > within about 4 weeks I will have ISO images available (time permitting) > > > > Regards > > > > Allen > > -- > pgp = Pretty Good Privacy. > > To get my public pgp key, send an e-mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Visit my web site at http://www.schaffter.com > > > -- > To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" > as the Subject. > -- +++ Allen Bolderoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LNC - Redhat and Linux, help and commentary http://linux.netnerve.com CTPC - Caffeine - get it here: http://www.coffee-tea-pots-cups.com/ +++ GPG fingerprint = CBB0 8626 702C 3D01 B5AD A54A DC2C 93B7 3E4B 6472 +++ -- To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" as the Subject.
Re: 686 distro. [Was: What about Mandrake?]
Allen, I'm sure you realize that a lot of people are looking forward to test the results of your efforts, me included. Be prepared that your site will probably be a hit site (pun intended) once the .iso is ready for publishing. Do you have disk space? Unfortunately, I cannot provide mirroring capabilities for an .iso myself, but maybe someone else has the resource for it? (I'm at a web hotel with 50MB disk quota.) Can we provide you with any other help? Pls, don't hesitate to ask here. I know that Bernhard Rosenkraenzer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> has been working on this task before. He has defined a number of packages that had compilation problems and published the list on a page at the redhat site. Unfortunately, I've lost the URL for his page. Bernhard? Do you read this? Could you please provide us with your insights in this? Best regards Gustav Allen Bolderoff wrote: > > I have actually started to do this. > > within about 4 weeks I will have ISO images available (time permitting) > > Regards > > Allen -- pgp = Pretty Good Privacy. To get my public pgp key, send an e-mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit my web site at http://www.schaffter.com -- To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" as the Subject.
Re: 686 distro. [Was: What about Mandrake?]
Manuel, But your 386/25 would install the binaries directly, with no compilation at all. Everything is already on the CD you have. Binaries optimized for 386 and sources that *could* be rebuilt and optimized for modern processors during the installation process. The only part that is missing is the optional rebuild routines. Remember, the goal is *not* to put you out of the game. Just to make the game more fun for those with more powerful PCs. Regards Gustav Manuel Camacho wrote: > > > Maybe not on a 686 with a speedy CD. > > But in my 386/25 may take two weeks... > > -Manuel. > > -- > To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" > as the Subject. -- pgp = Pretty Good Privacy. To get my public pgp key, send an e-mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit my web site at http://www.schaffter.com -- To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" as the Subject.
Re: 686 distro. [Was: What about Mandrake?]
> Maybe not on a 686 with a speedy CD. But in my 386/25 may take two weeks... -Manuel. -- To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" as the Subject.
Re: 686 distro. [Was: What about Mandrake?]
I have actually started to do this. within about 4 weeks I will have ISO images available (time permitting) Regards Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: > I'd *love* to see a 686 compiled RH distro. It's not just Linux that > goes through the evolution. So does the hardware available in hardware > stores. > -- +++ Allen Bolderoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LNC - Redhat and Linux, help and commentary http://linux.netnerve.com CTPC - Caffeine - get it here: http://www.coffee-tea-pots-cups.com/ +++ GPG fingerprint = CBB0 8626 702C 3D01 B5AD A54A DC2C 93B7 3E4B 6472 +++ -- To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" as the Subject.
Re: 686 distro. [Was: What about Mandrake?]
On Mon, 27 Dec 1999, Gustav Schaffter wrote: > Agreed, Zoki. > *snip* > there. And I think it's good that RH supports the 386 architecture. > That's respect. Still, I think it's really time to get a new generation > of distro now, optimized for the latest hardware from Intel. And I say > 'from Intel' because they do have a huge market share, like it or not. > Sounds like you want to head a project, if you want a distro optimized for Intel, there is nothing stopping you from doing that. If I were Redhat, my question would be: If we do that, how much are you willing to pay? It make more sense for Redhat to have one distro that covers the Intels, AMDs, and Cyrixs of the world. Then they have time/money to work on SPARC and Alpha...:) Bill Carlson Systems Programmer[EMAIL PROTECTED]| Opinions are mine, Virtual Hospital http://www.vh.org/| not my employer's. University of Iowa Hospitals and Clinics| -- To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" as the Subject.
Re: 686 distro. [Was: What about Mandrake?]
I have actually started to rebuild most of the redhat 6.1 packages, and will be creating an ISO within the next 3-4 weeks (I am very busy). Allen > Hi, > > I'd *love* to see a 686 compiled RH distro. It's not just Linux that > goes through the evolution. So does the hardware available in hardware > stores. -- +++ Allen Bolderoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LNC - Redhat and Linux, help and commentary http://linux.netnerve.com CTPC - Caffeine - get it here: http://www.coffee-tea-pots-cups.com/ +++ GPG fingerprint = CBB0 8626 702C 3D01 B5AD A54A DC2C 93B7 3E4B 6472 +++ -- To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" as the Subject.
Re: 686 distro. [Was: What about Mandrake?]
Chuck Mead wrote: > Yech... it'd take a week to do an install! :-) Maybe not on a 686 with a speedy CD. Gustav -- pgp = Pretty Good Privacy. To get my public pgp key, send an e-mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit my web site at http://www.schaffter.com -- To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" as the Subject.
Re: 686 distro. [Was: What about Mandrake?]
Agreed, Zoki. I have a few 486's laying around where I see that I could use Linux and get good use out of these boxes. But, I would *not* go to the hardware store around the corner and ask for a brand new 386 or 486. First, they would not have any to sell. They would not even be able to order one. (I know this first hand.) I would have some serious problems in buying a brand new Pentium of the first generation. Honestly, I think I would fail such an attempt. I could *eventually* find a dusty Pentium Pro, even though I doubt it. A PII would be a bargain. A PIII will of course depend on clock speed and additional equipment. (I don't talk performance here. I talk availability.) Having said that, I was actually looking at a used 486 at a flee market a few weeks ago. Personally, I don't think I would buy one. I use the ones I have, no problem. And I see no reason to throw them away. I see lots of reasons for many people to use them, when they are already there. And I think it's good that RH supports the 386 architecture. That's respect. Still, I think it's really time to get a new generation of distro now, optimized for the latest hardware from Intel. And I say 'from Intel' because they do have a huge market share, like it or not. There are a *number* of buyers that go Intel 686 these days. For whatever smart or stupid reason. Having payed such a price for a PC (overprice?), the user will not be very happy to learn that the OS they're using is optimized for a 386. No matter if the user makes use of the power or not. It just doesn't rime. Personally, i participate in two 'distributed computing' projects. The Great Internet Mersenne Prime Search (GIMPS) and SETI@HOME. So my boxes do run at 100% all the time, and I'd like to have even more power than I do. My main server is 2*550PIII overclocked to 103 MHz bus speed. I run GIMPS on 400PIII and 266PII. To me, every clock cycle counts. :-) Still, I'm not ready to start re-compiling the source RPM's for my systems. Best regards Gustav Zoki wrote: > > On Mon, 27 Dec 1999, Gustav Schaffter wrote: > > > > ->I'm aware that many people run Linux on 'old' hardware. I fully > ->respect this need, which is somewhat proven by the fact that I intend > ->to install RH6.1 on a few 486's laying around (when I find the time > ->for it) and I agree that there should be a 386 compatible distro > ->available. Still, nobody(?) *buys* a 386 or 486 system today. > > *** The point is not that people buy 386 or 486 systems today - although I > bought a A5 486DX-66 Fujitsu portable recently - the point is, that people > do install Linux on older equipment. I allready run the Mandrake 6 distrib > and I'm glad Red Hat allows me to install the latest kernel and updates on > my Fujitsu; which Mandrake doesn't. > > Cheers! >_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ > _/ Zoran GRBIC_/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] _/ Linux advocate _/ > _/ Sys Analyste UNIX & Oracle _/ Paris, FRANCE _/ Micro$oft clean _/ > _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ > Mailed with Linux & Pine... > > "gawk; talk; date; wine; grep; touch; unzip; touch; gasp; finger; gasp; mount; > fsck; more; gasp; umount; make clean; make; mkproper; sleep" > -- Gavin, Linux mailing list > > -- > To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" > as the Subject. -- pgp = Pretty Good Privacy. To get my public pgp key, send an e-mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit my web site at http://www.schaffter.com -- To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" as the Subject.
RE: 686 distro. [Was: What about Mandrake?]
On Mon, 27 Dec 1999, Dan Browning said: DB>Why not just create an installation program that compiles the RPMS at DB>installation time? For example, RedHat provides a binary i386 disc for DB>those who want a quick & easy install. But there could also be an DB>installation option that lets you chose to compile every source package DB>before installation for your target platform (386, 486, 586, 686, athlon, DB>etc.) Of course, the installation would take much longer this way, as it DB>compiles every source package. But it would seem like an elegant way to DB>satisfy everyone's desire. I've thought of writing such an program but I DB>don't have the time currently. Yech... it'd take a week to do an install! :-) DB>> -Original Message- DB>> From: Gustav Schaffter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] DB>> Sent: Monday, December 27, 1999 6:05 AM DB>> To: redhat-list (Mailing list) DB>> Subject: 686 distro. [Was: What about Mandrake?] DB>> DB>> DB>> Hi, DB>> DB>> I'd *love* to see a 686 compiled RH distro. It's not just Linux that DB>> goes through the evolution. So does the hardware available in hardware DB>> stores. DB>> DB>> In a way, I can understand that RedHat doesn't want to go this way, DB>> because then they would also have to provide a 586 distro etc, etc. And DB>> when would they be able to discontinue the 386 compiled distro? Etc. DB>> DB>> But I think it could be done as a distributed volonteer developer DB>> project. As long as RedHat doesn't want to do it themself, I don't see DB>> why they should (or could?) oppose to such a project. Maybe that RedHat DB>> would like to participate, if it's run by volonteers? DB>> DB>> Of course, there need to be a project definition, organization, DB>> objective and scope definition, plus a serious coordination effort to DB>> fulfill the sake. DB>> DB>> Idea: Maybe(!!) the objective would be to always maintain a distro DB>> optimized for the very latest available Intel platform? DB>> DB>> If someone organized a distributed project to do this I would like to DB>> participate. (Does it already exist?) But, I wouldn't find time to DB>> manage it. Not even to participate in project management. I'd be happy DB>> to maintain the latest 686 rpms for a limited and well defined subset of DB>> the necessary packages. Kinda 20 - 30 rpms. Maybe more. I would also be DB>> happy to provide limited space on my ftp server. Maybe 10 - 20 MB, but DB>> no more. I don't see why such an effort couldn't even bring us a 686 DB>> compiled .iso of the RH setup. DB>> DB>> As I already stated, it would require someone else to organize the DB>> effort, though. DB>> DB>> I'm aware that many people run Linux on 'old' hardware. I fully respect DB>> this need, which is somewhat proven by the fact that I intend to install DB>> RH6.1 on a few 486's laying around (when I find the time for it) and I DB>> agree that there should be a 386 compatible distro available. Still, DB>> nobody(?) *buys* a 386 or 486 system today. DB>> DB>> Regards DB>> Gustav DB>> DB>> -- DB>> pgp = Pretty Good Privacy. DB>> DB>> To get my public pgp key, send an e-mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] DB>> DB>> Visit my web site at http://www.schaffter.com DB>> DB>> DB>> -- DB>> To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" DB>> as the Subject. DB>> DB>> DB> DB> DB> -- Chuck Mead, CTO, MoonGroup Consulting, Inc. <http://moongroup.com> Mail problems? Send "s-u-b-s-c-r-i-b-e mailhelp" (no quotes and no hyphens) in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Public key available at: wwwkeys.us.pgp.net -- To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" as the Subject.
RE: 686 distro. [Was: What about Mandrake?]
Why not just create an installation program that compiles the RPMS at installation time? For example, RedHat provides a binary i386 disc for those who want a quick & easy install. But there could also be an installation option that lets you chose to compile every source package before installation for your target platform (386, 486, 586, 686, athlon, etc.) Of course, the installation would take much longer this way, as it compiles every source package. But it would seem like an elegant way to satisfy everyone's desire. I've thought of writing such an program but I don't have the time currently. > -Original Message- > From: Gustav Schaffter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, December 27, 1999 6:05 AM > To: redhat-list (Mailing list) > Subject: 686 distro. [Was: What about Mandrake?] > > > Hi, > > I'd *love* to see a 686 compiled RH distro. It's not just Linux that > goes through the evolution. So does the hardware available in hardware > stores. > > In a way, I can understand that RedHat doesn't want to go this way, > because then they would also have to provide a 586 distro etc, etc. And > when would they be able to discontinue the 386 compiled distro? Etc. > > But I think it could be done as a distributed volonteer developer > project. As long as RedHat doesn't want to do it themself, I don't see > why they should (or could?) oppose to such a project. Maybe that RedHat > would like to participate, if it's run by volonteers? > > Of course, there need to be a project definition, organization, > objective and scope definition, plus a serious coordination effort to > fulfill the sake. > > Idea: Maybe(!!) the objective would be to always maintain a distro > optimized for the very latest available Intel platform? > > If someone organized a distributed project to do this I would like to > participate. (Does it already exist?) But, I wouldn't find time to > manage it. Not even to participate in project management. I'd be happy > to maintain the latest 686 rpms for a limited and well defined subset of > the necessary packages. Kinda 20 - 30 rpms. Maybe more. I would also be > happy to provide limited space on my ftp server. Maybe 10 - 20 MB, but > no more. I don't see why such an effort couldn't even bring us a 686 > compiled .iso of the RH setup. > > As I already stated, it would require someone else to organize the > effort, though. > > I'm aware that many people run Linux on 'old' hardware. I fully respect > this need, which is somewhat proven by the fact that I intend to install > RH6.1 on a few 486's laying around (when I find the time for it) and I > agree that there should be a 386 compatible distro available. Still, > nobody(?) *buys* a 386 or 486 system today. > > Regards > Gustav > > -- > pgp = Pretty Good Privacy. > > To get my public pgp key, send an e-mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Visit my web site at http://www.schaffter.com > > > -- > To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" > as the Subject. > > -- To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" as the Subject.
Re: 686 distro. [Was: What about Mandrake?]
On Mon, 27 Dec 1999, Gustav Schaffter wrote: ->I'm aware that many people run Linux on 'old' hardware. I fully ->respect this need, which is somewhat proven by the fact that I intend ->to install RH6.1 on a few 486's laying around (when I find the time ->for it) and I agree that there should be a 386 compatible distro ->available. Still, nobody(?) *buys* a 386 or 486 system today. *** The point is not that people buy 386 or 486 systems today - although I bought a A5 486DX-66 Fujitsu portable recently - the point is, that people do install Linux on older equipment. I allready run the Mandrake 6 distrib and I'm glad Red Hat allows me to install the latest kernel and updates on my Fujitsu; which Mandrake doesn't. Cheers! _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ Zoran GRBIC_/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] _/ Linux advocate _/ _/ Sys Analyste UNIX & Oracle _/ Paris, FRANCE _/ Micro$oft clean _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ Mailed with Linux & Pine... "gawk; talk; date; wine; grep; touch; unzip; touch; gasp; finger; gasp; mount; fsck; more; gasp; umount; make clean; make; mkproper; sleep" -- Gavin, Linux mailing list -- To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" as the Subject.
Re: 686 distro. [Was: What about Mandrake?]
On Mon, 27 Dec 1999, Gustav Schaffter wrote: > I'm aware that many people run Linux on 'old' hardware. I fully respect > this need, which is somewhat proven by the fact that I intend to install > RH6.1 on a few 486's laying around (when I find the time for it) and I > agree that there should be a 386 compatible distro available. Still, > nobody(?) *buys* a 386 or 486 system today. > Hi Gustav! Well, I do buy 386 and 486 systems (or get them for free, too! =) ). They work great depending on what you need them for. In fact, many industrial microprocessors are still based on the 486 chip. Want to run a security system? An energy saving station for a supermarket? Keep on inventory of a renting business? Almost anything can be done on a 486 system. Why are we using faster and improved systems? I guess because GUI are simpler to use for the average non technical user. But when you have fixed application systems, you can make a front end for the application that is user friendly for the guy who is trained to use it, and you can run them on still very cheap systems. Anyway, a user can just recompile his kernel and the applications he wants. Takes more time, but seems a lot more fun to me! =) Have a nice day! -Manuel. -- To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" as the Subject.
Re: 686 distro. [Was: What about Mandrake?]
Gustav: I would love to get involved with something like this. I've already started to put together my own i686 iso, but I've run into problems with some of the RPMs rebuilding. If anyone else is interested in working on this, and possibly doing some other modifications (IE. reducing the kernel to one RPM instead of 9 or 10 so a kernel upgrade would be to install only one new RPM, etc.), please count me in. I have storage space for RPMs, and can work some nights on helping out with this. - Mike On Mon, 27 Dec 1999, Gustav Schaffter wrote: > Hi, > > I'd *love* to see a 686 compiled RH distro. It's not just Linux that > goes through the evolution. So does the hardware available in hardware > stores. > > In a way, I can understand that RedHat doesn't want to go this way, > because then they would also have to provide a 586 distro etc, etc. And > when would they be able to discontinue the 386 compiled distro? Etc. > > But I think it could be done as a distributed volonteer developer > project. As long as RedHat doesn't want to do it themself, I don't see > why they should (or could?) oppose to such a project. Maybe that RedHat > would like to participate, if it's run by volonteers? > > Of course, there need to be a project definition, organization, > objective and scope definition, plus a serious coordination effort to > fulfill the sake. > > Idea: Maybe(!!) the objective would be to always maintain a distro > optimized for the very latest available Intel platform? > > If someone organized a distributed project to do this I would like to > participate. (Does it already exist?) But, I wouldn't find time to > manage it. Not even to participate in project management. I'd be happy > to maintain the latest 686 rpms for a limited and well defined subset of > the necessary packages. Kinda 20 - 30 rpms. Maybe more. I would also be > happy to provide limited space on my ftp server. Maybe 10 - 20 MB, but > no more. I don't see why such an effort couldn't even bring us a 686 > compiled .iso of the RH setup. > > As I already stated, it would require someone else to organize the > effort, though. > > I'm aware that many people run Linux on 'old' hardware. I fully respect > this need, which is somewhat proven by the fact that I intend to install > RH6.1 on a few 486's laying around (when I find the time for it) and I > agree that there should be a 386 compatible distro available. Still, > nobody(?) *buys* a 386 or 486 system today. > > Regards > Gustav > > -- > pgp = Pretty Good Privacy. > > To get my public pgp key, send an e-mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Visit my web site at http://www.schaffter.com > > > -- > To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" > as the Subject. > -- To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" as the Subject.
686 distro. [Was: What about Mandrake?]
Hi, I'd *love* to see a 686 compiled RH distro. It's not just Linux that goes through the evolution. So does the hardware available in hardware stores. In a way, I can understand that RedHat doesn't want to go this way, because then they would also have to provide a 586 distro etc, etc. And when would they be able to discontinue the 386 compiled distro? Etc. But I think it could be done as a distributed volonteer developer project. As long as RedHat doesn't want to do it themself, I don't see why they should (or could?) oppose to such a project. Maybe that RedHat would like to participate, if it's run by volonteers? Of course, there need to be a project definition, organization, objective and scope definition, plus a serious coordination effort to fulfill the sake. Idea: Maybe(!!) the objective would be to always maintain a distro optimized for the very latest available Intel platform? If someone organized a distributed project to do this I would like to participate. (Does it already exist?) But, I wouldn't find time to manage it. Not even to participate in project management. I'd be happy to maintain the latest 686 rpms for a limited and well defined subset of the necessary packages. Kinda 20 - 30 rpms. Maybe more. I would also be happy to provide limited space on my ftp server. Maybe 10 - 20 MB, but no more. I don't see why such an effort couldn't even bring us a 686 compiled .iso of the RH setup. As I already stated, it would require someone else to organize the effort, though. I'm aware that many people run Linux on 'old' hardware. I fully respect this need, which is somewhat proven by the fact that I intend to install RH6.1 on a few 486's laying around (when I find the time for it) and I agree that there should be a 386 compatible distro available. Still, nobody(?) *buys* a 386 or 486 system today. Regards Gustav -- pgp = Pretty Good Privacy. To get my public pgp key, send an e-mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit my web site at http://www.schaffter.com -- To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" as the Subject.
