[Repeater-Builder] Re: Weather Radios

[grizzarv]

> From: Mike WA6ILQ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Weather Radios

[...]

> >FWIW, the SAME code definitions are in the referenced PDF.  The
> >encoderis even somethng that might be worth writing as a sound
> >card utility, provided the sound card has the requisite transient response
> >and stability.
> 
> I'd like to see that as a embedded processor function on a repeater controller
> add-on card - in the same sense as the RLC-MOT is a add-on card.
> Picture the ability to take a old 160mhz receiver strip - let's say from a
> Motrac - something that would normally be considered as a doorstop.
> Buy a cheap crystal from somewhere on the local weather channel.
> Add this board - call it the Simple-SAME decoder between the audio
> output and the repeater controller input.  You instantly have a high
> performance SAME receiver for the cost of the Simple-SAME and a
> crystal.

I admit I wasn't thinking that far into it -- I was hung up on the
notion of generating SAME codes for the purpose of testing decoders.

That would be a slick little gadget.  Since the SAME codes include EOM
that would allow the repeater to go back to normal operations when the
message ended.  I see a need to control warnings coming from the
decoder independently, though; after the horn has blown for a tornado
warning one's users probably wouldn't be any too interested in a severe
T'storm watch.  Possibly something like the decoder outputs as one input
to an AND gate with the other being a latch, then all 31 AND gates
feeding into a single OR gate.

[snip]

de kg7yy





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Oh Lord, not another Part 97 question!

[NØATH]

I'll have to go with Joe - #5 - the latest thing I've seen or heard (
hearsay ) is you are
 no longer required to identify when you first come on or not for the first
10 minutes.
I remember on the exams administered recently the question: How often must
an amateur
repeater identify? The correct answer of course - every 10 minutes, same as
any other legal
amateur emission.  Dave  /  NØATH

- Original Message - 
From: "mch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Oh Lord, not another Part 97 question!


I'll provide my own 'choice'. 5) The same as any other Part 97 station.

Joe M.

Ken Arck wrote:
>
> Point to point link ID requirement:
>
> 1) When the link is first brought up and taken down
> 2) When the link is first brought up and taken down and every 10 minutes
of
> operation
> 3) At the "end of communications"
> 4) All of the above
>
> The winner receives an "atta boy!"
>
> Ken
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>






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[Repeater-Builder] MSR-2000 parts/repair needed

[Chris Peterson]

All,

Our local EOC has an MSR-2000 repeater, converted to 146.745- Mhz.

It has always had a flaky PA.  The local Motorola shop says there is a crack
in the board that broke a trace.  This has failed about every 6 months and
the Motorola shop has simply soldered across the trace and temperarily
solved the problem.

Now, though, we're having a different problem.  When it gets hot, the
repeater TX drops out completely, sometimes for a couple minutes.  This, to
me, sounds like an exciter problem, or possibly a bad connection between the
exciter and PA, but the Motorola shop has tried to blame the RC-850 that is
connected to the repeater.

We've disconnected the RC-850 and still have the problem using the internal
controller, so we believe we've mostly ruled out the modification as being
the problem.

I'm looking for replacement PAs, exciters, or any other MSR-2000 parts.

I'd also be interested to know if any other Motorola parts will directly
drop in.  I.E. Mitrek parts?

It's storm season now, so we'd like to get the repeater functioning properly
as soon as possible.

Thanks and 73,
Chris Peterson, KG0BP








 
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[Repeater-Builder] Re: Cushman CE3

[Laryn Lohman]

No problem in the 2M band.  The issue is below 450.000, the 70cm ham 
band.  Seems such a shame it stops at 450.  

Neil, I read your post about the kit.  I'm sure that is on the shelf 
at the factory .  

Thanks for the replies guys.  It doesn't sound like a fast and easy 
mod.

Laryn K8TVZ

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Coy Hilton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> The CE3 should work at 2 meter ham band. I know that it works 
> (normaly) in the vhf band and the 450 commertial bands because it 
is 
> what I used for several years before the CE50 and the CE4 came 
> alongin our shop.
> IF It goes out of lock when you try say, setting it for 155.000 mhz 
> there is a problem with yours. I would try and get all info that I 
> could find including a service manual. There should be at least one 
> company out there that could work on it for you.
> It's an OLD BEAST, but I would to have one. The one that I used 
> lasted for ever..
> 73
> AC0Y
>  
> 
> 
> --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Laryn Lohman" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > OK, more info
> > 
> > The PLL? goes into unlock below 450.000Mc.  So that was the 
> subject 
> > of my question, although I didn't say so.  The preselector is the 
> > tunable 140-175Mc unit.  As you know, it is switchable to an 
ultra-
> > wide mode with no tuning.  So it seems that won't get in the way 
> once 
> > the frequency selection circuits are happy.  What else might get 
> in 
> > the way of operating below 450?  There's got to be way, right?  
> > 
> > 
> > Laryn K8TVZ





 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] MSR-2000 parts/repair needed

[N9WYS]

Chris, 

You say your Motorola shop "soldered across the trace"...  I guess I
need to know HOW they did this.  We have an MSR2000 UHF machine, and our
PA has failed twice in about 6 months also.  The local tech tried to do
the "I'll solder across the trace" fix, and it also failed.  To have the
PA repaired properly, we sent it to the Motorola shop (Chicago
Communications).  They have a "hot air" solder system, which is
apparently needed for this type of repair.  I'm told the failure was on
a board that has a ceramic substrate, and if not repaired PROPERLY, it
will continue to fail, as ours did.  Improper heating and/or pressure
during repair can >>crack the substrate<< and ruin the circuit board.

I just got the PA back, and haven't even had a chance to get it back on
the air yet; nor do I know what this repair has cost us.

Just something you might want to look into.

Mark - N9WYS


-Original Message-
From: Chris Peterson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 8:29 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] MSR-2000 parts/repair needed

All,

Our local EOC has an MSR-2000 repeater, converted to 146.745- Mhz.

It has always had a flaky PA.  The local Motorola shop says there is a
crack
in the board that broke a trace.  This has failed about every 6 months
and
the Motorola shop has simply soldered across the trace and temperarily
solved the problem.

Now, though, we're having a different problem.  When it gets hot, the
repeater TX drops out completely, sometimes for a couple minutes.  This,
to
me, sounds like an exciter problem, or possibly a bad connection between
the
exciter and PA, but the Motorola shop has tried to blame the RC-850 that
is
connected to the repeater.

We've disconnected the RC-850 and still have the problem using the
internal
controller, so we believe we've mostly ruled out the modification as
being
the problem.

I'm looking for replacement PAs, exciters, or any other MSR-2000 parts.

I'd also be interested to know if any other Motorola parts will directly
drop in.  I.E. Mitrek parts?

It's storm season now, so we'd like to get the repeater functioning
properly
as soon as possible.

Thanks and 73,
Chris Peterson, KG0BP 






 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Weather Radios

[Mike WA6ILQ]

At 07:09 PM 6/7/04 -0500, you wrote:

> > From: Mike WA6ILQ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Weather Radios
>
>[...]
>
> > >FWIW, the SAME code definitions are in the referenced PDF.  The
> > >encoderis even somethng that might be worth writing as a sound
> > >card utility, provided the sound card has the requisite transient response
> > >and stability.
> >
> > I'd like to see that as a embedded processor function on a repeater 
> controller
> > add-on card - in the same sense as the RLC-MOT is a add-on card.
> > Picture the ability to take a old 160mhz receiver strip - let's say from a
> > Motrac - something that would normally be considered as a doorstop.
> > Buy a cheap crystal from somewhere on the local weather channel.
> > Add this board - call it the Simple-SAME decoder between the audio
> > output and the repeater controller input.  You instantly have a high
> > performance SAME receiver for the cost of the Simple-SAME and a
> > crystal.
>
>I admit I wasn't thinking that far into it -- I was hung up on the
>notion of generating SAME codes for the purpose of testing decoders.
>
>That would be a slick little gadget.  Since the SAME codes include EOM
>that would allow the repeater to go back to normal operations when the
>message ended.  I see a need to control warnings coming from the
>decoder independently, though; after the horn has blown for a tornado
>warning one's users probably wouldn't be any too interested in a severe
>T'storm watch.  Possibly something like the decoder outputs as one input
>to an AND gate with the other being a latch, then all 31 AND gates
>feeding into a single OR gate.
>
>[snip]
>
>de kg7yy

Actually the CAT Auto product seems, at first reading, to do just
what I was looking for.



Mike WA6ILQ





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Weather Radios

[Mathew Quaife]

That looks like the ticket.  A little on the pricy side, but seems it would
be a better control than relying on the system to shut it down.  Thanks for
the info.

Mathew

- Original Message -
From: "Jim, KC1RM" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 4:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Weather Radios


> Here is a decoder from Computer Automation-  Not sure how good it is,
> but I thought I would throw it out there.
>
> http://www.catauto.com/wd100.html
>
> Jim, KC1RM
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Chuck Kelsey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 7:05 PM
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Weather Radios
>
>
> > There was one, but no one purchased them and they were discontinued.
> >
> > Chuck
> > WB2EDV
> >
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Mike WA6ILQ" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: 
> > Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 6:05 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Weather Radios
> >
> >
> > >
> > > PS - if someone makes a Simple-SAME then I want one or two.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: slight o/t where is cable broadband ?

[Pete Dziomba]

Richard, I think the carrier for CATV Ch. 18 is 145.25 or so.. Did they 
just change the
contents of ch 18 when they picked up broadband? I know my cable Co. is 
always
moving stuff around..  My  CATV Co.'s downlink freq. to me is ch. 82? 
I'm not sure
if that's a STD or  HRC ch..  (8 ch. different in the formats up 
there..) The uplink freq.
from me to the head head is in the 40mhz range.. The guys didn't know 
exactly what
freq. it was when I was having broadband problems 2 yrs ago.. Your 
mileage may vary..

-73, Pete N2MCI

The Marlin Family wrote:

>we are receiving what appears to be a new catv "cable leak" that sounds
>like a loud machine like buzz.  maybe 300 hz or the like.  it seems to
>be right at 145.15 and all over the place near there when we hear it.
>driving us nuts  where is cable tv broadband spectum wise.
>our local cable co just started up broadband at about the same time this
>started thanks  Richard Marlin K4HAT
>
>
>
>
>  
>





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: slight o/t where is cable broadband ?

[Ken Arck]

At 11:39 PM 6/7/2004 -0400, you wrote:

>we are receiving what appears to be a new catv "cable leak" that sounds
>like a loud machine like buzz.  maybe 300 hz or the like.  it seems to
>be right at 145.15 and all over the place near there when we hear it.
>driving us nuts  where is cable tv broadband spectum wise.
>our local cable co just started up broadband at about the same time this
>started thanks  Richard Marlin K4HAT

<---If you think that is bad, wait until BPL hits your town!

Ken
--
President and CTO - Arcom Communications
Makers of state-of-the-art repeater controllers and accessories.
http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html
AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000
http://www.irlp.net




 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: slight o/t where is cable broadband ?

[mch]

I'm thinking mine is in the 70s - channel 78 or so.

Joe M.

Pete Dziomba wrote:
> 
> Richard, I think the carrier for CATV Ch. 18 is 145.25 or so.. Did they
> just change the
> contents of ch 18 when they picked up broadband? I know my cable Co. is
> always
> moving stuff around..  My  CATV Co.'s downlink freq. to me is ch. 82?
> I'm not sure
> if that's a STD or  HRC ch..  (8 ch. different in the formats up
> there..) The uplink freq.
> from me to the head head is in the 40mhz range.. The guys didn't know
> exactly what
> freq. it was when I was having broadband problems 2 yrs ago.. Your
> mileage may vary..
> 
> -73, Pete N2MCI
> 
> The Marlin Family wrote:
> 
> >we are receiving what appears to be a new catv "cable leak" that sounds
> >like a loud machine like buzz.  maybe 300 hz or the like.  it seems to
> >be right at 145.15 and all over the place near there when we hear it.
> >driving us nuts  where is cable tv broadband spectum wise.
> >our local cable co just started up broadband at about the same time this
> >started thanks  Richard Marlin K4HAT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] MSR-2000 parts/repair needed

[Neil McKie]

  I learned a very long time ago (when the UHF MST Motrans first came 
 out) trying to solder to a ceramic substrate is a study in itself. 

  Good luck, 

  Neil - WA6KLA 


N9WYS wrote:
> 
> Chris,
> 
> You say your Motorola shop "soldered across the trace"...  I guess I
> need to know HOW they did this.  We have an MSR2000 UHF machine, and our
> PA has failed twice in about 6 months also.  The local tech tried to do
> the "I'll solder across the trace" fix, and it also failed.  To have the
> PA repaired properly, we sent it to the Motorola shop (Chicago
> Communications).  They have a "hot air" solder system, which is
> apparently needed for this type of repair.  I'm told the failure was on
> a board that has a ceramic substrate, and if not repaired PROPERLY, it
> will continue to fail, as ours did.  Improper heating and/or pressure
> during repair can >>crack the substrate<< and ruin the circuit board.
> 
> I just got the PA back, and haven't even had a chance to get it back on
> the air yet; nor do I know what this repair has cost us.
> 
> Just something you might want to look into.
> 
> Mark - N9WYS
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Chris Peterson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 8:29 PM
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] MSR-2000 parts/repair needed
> 
> All,
> 
> Our local EOC has an MSR-2000 repeater, converted to 146.745- Mhz.
> 
> It has always had a flaky PA.  The local Motorola shop says there is a
> crack
> in the board that broke a trace.  This has failed about every 6 months
> and
> the Motorola shop has simply soldered across the trace and temperarily
> solved the problem.
> 
> Now, though, we're having a different problem.  When it gets hot, the
> repeater TX drops out completely, sometimes for a couple minutes.  This,
> to
> me, sounds like an exciter problem, or possibly a bad connection between
> the
> exciter and PA, but the Motorola shop has tried to blame the RC-850 that
> is
> connected to the repeater.
> 
> We've disconnected the RC-850 and still have the problem using the
> internal
> controller, so we believe we've mostly ruled out the modification as
> being
> the problem.
> 
> I'm looking for replacement PAs, exciters, or any other MSR-2000 parts.
> 
> I'd also be interested to know if any other Motorola parts will directly
> drop in.  I.E. Mitrek parts?
> 
> It's storm season now, so we'd like to get the repeater functioning
> properly
> as soon as possible.
> 
> Thanks and 73,
> Chris Peterson, KG0BP
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>





 
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[Repeater-Builder] Syntor X

[Matt Krick]

Does anyone know where to find COS in a syntor X?





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Cushman CE3

[Neil McKie]

  I believe that factory option was called the M20 kit or similar. 
 We had one in our shop that had that done.  Took a return trip to 
 the factory to get it installed. 

  Neil 


Laryn Lohman wrote:
> 
> No problem in the 2M band.  The issue is below 450.000, the 70cm ham
> band.  Seems such a shame it stops at 450.
> 
> Neil, I read your post about the kit.  I'm sure that is on the shelf
> at the factory .
> 
> Thanks for the replies guys.  It doesn't sound like a fast and easy
> mod.
> 
> Laryn K8TVZ
> 
> --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Coy Hilton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > The CE3 should work at 2 meter ham band. I know that it works
> > (normaly) in the vhf band and the 450 commertial bands because it
> is
> > what I used for several years before the CE50 and the CE4 came
> > alongin our shop.
> > IF It goes out of lock when you try say, setting it for 155.000 mhz
> > there is a problem with yours. I would try and get all info that I
> > could find including a service manual. There should be at least one
> > company out there that could work on it for you.
> > It's an OLD BEAST, but I would to have one. The one that I used
> > lasted for ever..
> > 73
> > AC0Y
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Laryn Lohman"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > OK, more info
> > >
> > > The PLL? goes into unlock below 450.000Mc.  So that was the
> > subject
> > > of my question, although I didn't say so.  The preselector is the
> > > tunable 140-175Mc unit.  As you know, it is switchable to an
> ultra-
> > > wide mode with no tuning.  So it seems that won't get in the way
> > once
> > > the frequency selection circuits are happy.  What else might get
> > in
> > > the way of operating below 450?  There's got to be way, right?
> > > 
> > >
> > > Laryn K8TVZ
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Syntor X

[Neil McKie]

  Not without a schematic diagram handy.  

  Neil - WA6KLA 


Matt Krick wrote:
> 
> Does anyone know where to find COS in a syntor X?
>





 
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[Repeater-Builder] information on a diplexer

[ian wells]

would anyone have any information on this diplexer
PHILIPS W1 TX-815 STYLE BASE STN UHF DIPLEXER 
Thank you
Ian Wells
Kerinvale Comaudio
mail service 1017,
Biloela,4715.
www.kerinvalecomaudio.com.au
1-email- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2-email- [EMAIL PROTECTED]





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Question on Motorola encryption

[Mike Pugh]

bredalrv1 wrote:
> Thanks Everyone for the help I appreciated it a lot sounds very 
> expensive for the Motorola SecureNet. I have Contacted Transcrypt 
> and they said That there SC20-DES Encryption Board would work 
> through a Repeater without having to install one on the Repeater 
> Site. just wanted to get your guys opinion on it. They said there is 
> as Secure as Motorola DES-XL?

It has been several years since I sold their stuff, so my memory is a 
bit fuzzy, but Transcrypt has several layers of scrambling that range 
from simple audio inversion, all the way to full blown digital audio 
rolling code scrambling. They do nothing to the carrier, all of their 
products deal strictly with the audio. That, in a nut shell is the 
difference between "encryption" and "scrambling" They really are two 
separate things..

Advantages to scrambling?

1). All of their scrambled audio will pass through a "regular" repeater 
as they have told you, since the carrier remains exactly the same as far 
as the repeater is concerned.
2). They make their products for darned near every radio known to man. 
If you are integrating scrambling into an existing system, it makes it a 
lot easier to sell, since the customer does not have to throw away all 
of their radios and start over.
3). If you buy their higher tier product, they have some really neat 
features such as OTAR, radio stun, code reset, and a bunch more neat stuff.

One major thing to be aware of is that audio scrambling is a bit harder 
to "sync" up upon keyup than digital encryption. We're talking 
milliseconds here, but that delay can easily turn a radio transmission 
of "DON'T SHOOT" into "SHOOT". In 1999 when I sold their product to a 
large police department, I sent them a couple of demo radios for them to 
install demo boards into. From the beginning, all parties knew that we 
were talking about their highest (at the time) level of scrambler, I 
believe it was called the "460" as I recall. When they sent the demos 
back to me, we showed them around, and eventually made the sale. Later 
on, we discovered that they had sent the demos in with a much lower 
level of scrambler in them, because since they were demo'ing the radios, 
they wanted to demo a lower tier of scrambling, since it "synched up 
faster. We ended up programming delays into the system to accommodate 
the keyup time of the radio, the "sync up" time of the portable, and the 
MDC1200 unit ID packets which HAD to go first. All in all, they system 
worked well, and the PD was happy, but their expectations were 
originally to "go scrambled" and stay that way. With all of the extra 
overhead at the head of each transmission, they ended up staying in the 
clear most of the time unless they had something important to talk about 
that they didn't want on the scanners in the town...
> 
> Thanks Again
>  In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
>>DVP is the lowest level of encryption DES/DVP were the 1st types. 
> 
> They found 
> 
>>that there was range problems and the "XL" versions came out. DVP 
> 
> was sold to 
> 
>>the general public, DES was only sold to government agencies. Both 
> 
> do not meet 
> 
>>the current government standards. A conventional repeater will not 
> 
> pass 
> 
>>either you need a "M" repeater setup for digital encryption.
>>
>>   Dale
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 






 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Syntor X

[Mathew Quaife]

Do like I did, take a volt meter and search for the voltage,  just make sure
it does not interefere with the receieve.

Mathew

- Original Message -
From: "Matt Krick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 11:08 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Syntor X


> Does anyone know where to find COS in a syntor X?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Syntor X

[Richard Velez]

If you email me directly I can send you the schematic. Other wise open
the top cover. Look somewhere in the middle. look for the component
labeled 440. Put  a meter on it you should get voltage for cor. I use
them for  a  6 and 10 meter repeater.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 6/8/04 2:08:57 AM >>>
Does anyone know where to find COS in a syntor X?





 
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[Repeater-Builder] Re: Weather Radios

[Al Wolfe]

Why reinvent the wheel? SAME receivers have been out for several years.
I bought a new Midland for $25 at a hamfest about three years ago. It can be
programmed for several SAME code counties, different alerts, etc. It works
well at a broadcast station with 50,000 watts ERP on an FM as well as
co-located  ham repeaters on two and 440. Several megawatt (or so it seems!)
pagers system are about a mile away.
The voltage states on the LED indicators can be used for determining
alerts, tests, etc. Should be useful to control an input to a repeater.
FWIW, the EAS decoder/encoders used in broadcast facilities usually
start at over a grand, more like $3000, for a decent one.
Have no experience with the Rat Shack models, but it would seem that
trying to build your own SAME decoder is a lot of work when other options
exists, other than an academic exercise. And I can't think of a legitimate
reason to retransmit SAME codes on amateur frequencies.
I guess if you really need a bullet proof front end you could take the
IF signal out of commercial receiver and insert it into a cheap SAME
receiver's IF chain. Or you could take the discriminator audio from the
commercial receiver into the cheap SAME receiver's detector.
The stock whip antenna on the back of the little midland works just fine
here, but then, the WX station is only six miles away. I think I'd try a
yagi cut to 162 if the signal was weak.

Al, K9SI





 
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[Repeater-Builder] Simoco FX5000 questions

[Ed Gage]

http://www.teamsimoco.com/FX5000.shtml

I'm purchasing this system for use as a repeater.  #1: Is the 
controller up to the task?  Will it ID every 10 mins, or am I going 
to have to come up with an external ID'er?  #2: What about PL?  Can 
it recognize PL?  #3: Link radio -- The rig is the 2M variety.  Can 
I connect an external 440 link radio to tie this machine to another 
repeater?  #4: Parts.  I'm in Colorado.  I understand the machine is 
made in UK.  How available are parts in the US?  #5: EPROM 
programming.  I understand it uses 28-pin EPROMs to set channels on 
TX and RX.  Is the software universally compatible with all burners, 
or does it prefer certain ones?






 
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[Repeater-Builder] Re: MSR-2000 parts/repair needed

[skipp025]

> "Chris Peterson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> All, 
> Our local EOC has an MSR-2000 repeater, converted 
> to 146.745- Mhz.

How was it converted?  

> It has always had a flaky PA.  The local Motorola 
> shop says there is a crack in the board that broke 
> a trace.  This has failed about every 6 months and
> the Motorola shop has simply soldered across the 
> trace and temperarily solved the problem.

"temporarily solved the problem" ..?  

> Now, though, we're having a different problem.  
> When it gets hot, the repeater TX drops out 
> completely, sometimes for a couple minutes.  
> This, to me, sounds like an exciter problem, 
> or possibly a bad connection between the
> exciter and PA, 

I would not make that assumption. You can use 
the metering points to help find the problem.

> but the Motorola shop has tried to blame 
> the RC-850 that is connected to the repeater.

Consider a different repair shop for your next 
job. 

> We've disconnected the RC-850 and still have 
> the problem using the internal controller, 

See my comment just above. 

> so we believe we've mostly ruled out the 
> modification as being the problem.

What was the modification? 

> I'm looking for replacement PAs, exciters, or 
> any other MSR-2000 parts.

Contact me off the group, I can probably help 
you solve your problem. 

> I'd also be interested to know if any other 
> Motorola parts will directly
> drop in.  I.E. Mitrek parts?

Some, not all.  Depending on what band and 
model you have, some Micor and Consolette 
units have some similar parts.

> It's storm season now, so we'd like to get 
> the repeater functioning properly
> as soon as possible.
> Thanks and 73,
> Chris Peterson, KG0BP 

cheers

skipp 
www.radiowrench.com 

also skipp025 @ yahoo.com 





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Weather Radios

[Mathew Quaife]

Hi Al, the signal is not the issue, I don't seem to be getting any problems
there.  What I need is to know what side of the leds to connect, and then I
have to get them to a set of relays.  I have to be honest here, it's been 15
years since I have done anything with electronics, and my memory somewhere a
long the way got misplaced, hi.  So now I have the ask tones to set off the
weather alerts, but them am told it won't light any of the diodes, so I am
going to try it and see just what it will do.  So all I can ask is that
folks bear with me as I am going to need assistance getting things hooked
up.  I'm not doing bad thus far, as I ahve gotten the repeater hooked up and
working quite rather well.  All except for the antenna, was going to try and
convert a DB304 to use on the repeater, quite an antenna, but I'm not sure
just what needs to be done to get it down to 50 ohms at 146 megs.

Mathew

- Original Message -
From: "Al Wolfe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 8:55 AM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Weather Radios


> Why reinvent the wheel? SAME receivers have been out for several
years.
> I bought a new Midland for $25 at a hamfest about three years ago. It can
be
> programmed for several SAME code counties, different alerts, etc. It works
> well at a broadcast station with 50,000 watts ERP on an FM as well as
> co-located  ham repeaters on two and 440. Several megawatt (or so it
seems!)
> pagers system are about a mile away.
> The voltage states on the LED indicators can be used for determining
> alerts, tests, etc. Should be useful to control an input to a repeater.
> FWIW, the EAS decoder/encoders used in broadcast facilities usually
> start at over a grand, more like $3000, for a decent one.
> Have no experience with the Rat Shack models, but it would seem that
> trying to build your own SAME decoder is a lot of work when other options
> exists, other than an academic exercise. And I can't think of a legitimate
> reason to retransmit SAME codes on amateur frequencies.
> I guess if you really need a bullet proof front end you could take the
> IF signal out of commercial receiver and insert it into a cheap SAME
> receiver's IF chain. Or you could take the discriminator audio from the
> commercial receiver into the cheap SAME receiver's detector.
> The stock whip antenna on the back of the little midland works just
fine
> here, but then, the WX station is only six miles away. I think I'd try a
> yagi cut to 162 if the signal was weak.
>
> Al, K9SI
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>





 
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[Repeater-Builder] Re: MSR-2000 parts/repair needed

[skipp025]

There are at least three or four MSR 2000 PA 
units available. 

Yes, the versions with the ceramic substrate 
are very touchy to repair, hacks are not able 
to fudge the proper job.  Walk away from 
any shop that doesn't appear to have first 
hand knowledge of methods used for repairing 
this type of pa stage. 

It's nice to have the hot gas bonder (or 
similar) method for repairs, although I know 
a limited number of people who can do it with 
special soldering systems. 

Any strong stress on the substrate will cause it 
to fail with hairline cracks.  If your PA suffers 
from hairline cracks, no fix except new substrates 
will (properly) solve the problem long term.

As a general rule... 
The mid split high band pa will fail when run 
continous at >65% power in the low range. You 
derate derate the mid split (range) PA when 
using it in the Amateur Band.  

The problem is running the PA at reduced 
ratings.  As a rule of thumb, rf power amplifiers 
are best operated within 5% of their rated 
values.  Running class C rf power amplifiers
at reduced values is not the best option. 


>  "N9WYS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Chris, 
> You say your Motorola shop "soldered across 
> the trace"...  I guess I need to know HOW 
> they did this.  We have an MSR2000 UHF machine, 
> and our PA has failed twice in about 6 months also. 

You need to put two fans in the factory MSR cab, 
sucking air from the bottom up and out. Turn the 
the UHF PA down to 65 watts output. 

> The local tech tried to do the "I'll solder 
> across the trace" fix, and it also failed.  To have the
> PA repaired properly, we sent it to the Motorola shop (Chicago
> Communications).  They have a "hot air" solder system, which is
> apparently needed for this type of repair.  I'm told 
> the failure was on a board that has a ceramic substrate, 
> and if not repaired PROPERLY, it will continue to fail, 
> as ours did.  Improper heating and/or pressure
> during repair can >>crack the substrate<< and ruin the 
> circuit board.

A big time yep...  and the power amplifier modules are 
not cheap. 

> I just got the PA back, and haven't even had a chance 
> to get it back on the air yet; nor do I know what 
> this repair has cost us.
> Just something you might want to look into.
> Mark - N9WYS 

Set the power level down to 75 watts max output and 
put at least one fan in place to move the air around. 

If you have high duty cycle operation, turn the PA 
down even more to 65 watts max output. 

cheers
skipp 
www.radiowrench.com 

skipp025 at yahoo.com 





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Weather Radios

[mch]

Mathew Quaife wrote:
> 
> What I need is to know what side of the leds to connect,

Just measure the voltage. Connect to the side that changes.

> and then I have to get them to a set of relays.

Just connect the above directly to your controller. If you need to
invert the signal, use a transistor.

>  So now I have the ask tones to set off the
> weather alerts, but them am told it won't light any of the diodes,

Maybe someone can send you a WAV with an actual alert. If they give you
the FIPS code the alert is for, you can program that into your unit and
test. The side benefit here is that unless it's a local who sends you
this, it won't set off any other local alerts. If you are lucky, you
might get two wavs - one for a watch and one for a warning. (assuming
you have separate LEDs for each)

Even if you don't have the FIPS code, you can program your receiver to
alert on any code. At least mine can be set up to ignore the FIPS code.

Joe M.




 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: MSR-2000 parts/repair needed

[Neil McKie]

  Hello ... 

  Back in the ... er ... ah ... late eighties: 

  Ordered a new 450 MHz MSR2000 from the big M ... was shipped as 
 expected - had the 12 VDC only option - was going to a 12 volt 
 only site that used a thermo-electric generator for power.  

  The license for this station said 20 watts output maximum.  The 
 only way it was orderable was the full power model at 75 watts 
 output. 

  After careful study of the transmitter and the associated 
 schematic diagrams, I noticed the PA driver stage was identical 
 to the PA final stage execpt the driver stage comprised of one 
 module and the final had three of the same modules. 

  After some careful thought, I slightly modified the PA deck by 
 bypassing the three module PA Amplifier and connect the driver 
 stage (1 module) to the output.  Got 16 watts out of the deal 
 discovering it was very stable and lowered the DC power drain a 
 lot. 

  Since this was a licensed link radio, the distance was 9.1 miles, 
 I figured the 16 watts would be way overkill.  

  My testing from the shop using a ground plane for an antenna, I 
 could bring up one of the systems with the service monitor. 

  Neil - WA6KLA 



skipp025 wrote:
> 
> There are at least three or four MSR 2000 PA
> units available.
> 
> Yes, the versions with the ceramic substrate
> are very touchy to repair, hacks are not able
> to fudge the proper job.  Walk away from
> any shop that doesn't appear to have first
> hand knowledge of methods used for repairing
> this type of pa stage.
> 
> It's nice to have the hot gas bonder (or
> similar) method for repairs, although I know
> a limited number of people who can do it with
> special soldering systems.
> 
> Any strong stress on the substrate will cause it
> to fail with hairline cracks.  If your PA suffers
> from hairline cracks, no fix except new substrates
> will (properly) solve the problem long term.
> 
> As a general rule...
> The mid split high band pa will fail when run
> continous at >65% power in the low range. You
> derate derate the mid split (range) PA when
> using it in the Amateur Band.
> 
> The problem is running the PA at reduced
> ratings.  As a rule of thumb, rf power amplifiers
> are best operated within 5% of their rated
> values.  Running class C rf power amplifiers
> at reduced values is not the best option.
> 
> >  "N9WYS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Chris,
> > You say your Motorola shop "soldered across
> > the trace"...  I guess I need to know HOW
> > they did this.  We have an MSR2000 UHF machine,
> > and our PA has failed twice in about 6 months also.
> 
> You need to put two fans in the factory MSR cab,
> sucking air from the bottom up and out. Turn the
> the UHF PA down to 65 watts output.
> 
> > The local tech tried to do the "I'll solder
> > across the trace" fix, and it also failed.  To have the
> > PA repaired properly, we sent it to the Motorola shop (Chicago
> > Communications).  They have a "hot air" solder system, which is
> > apparently needed for this type of repair.  I'm told
> > the failure was on a board that has a ceramic substrate,
> > and if not repaired PROPERLY, it will continue to fail,
> > as ours did.  Improper heating and/or pressure
> > during repair can >>crack the substrate<< and ruin the
> > circuit board.
> 
> A big time yep...  and the power amplifier modules are
> not cheap.
> 
> > I just got the PA back, and haven't even had a chance
> > to get it back on the air yet; nor do I know what
> > this repair has cost us.
> > Just something you might want to look into.
> > Mark - N9WYS
> 
> Set the power level down to 75 watts max output and
> put at least one fan in place to move the air around.
> 
> If you have high duty cycle operation, turn the PA
> down even more to 65 watts max output.
> 
> cheers
> skipp
> www.radiowrench.com
> 
> skipp025 at yahoo.com
> 
>





 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Weather Radios

[Rich Garcia]

I see a lot of people talking about having to tap off at the LED. I have 2
R/S WX receivers here one is SAME and one is not and both have outputs, I
have not messed with the output but I believe that it is a NO contact that
closes upon alert and opens when the receiver goes back to mute.  The only
thing I don't like about it is that most of these radios will mute 4-5
minutes after the alert message, that is a bit long for my taste but you
could use the output to fire another relay/timer that is set for lets say
2-3 minutes and that could command the repeater controller.

Rich

-Original Message-
From: Al Wolfe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 11:56 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Weather Radios


Why reinvent the wheel? SAME receivers have been out for several years.
I bought a new Midland for $25 at a hamfest about three years ago. It can be
programmed for several SAME code counties, different alerts, etc. It works
well at a broadcast station with 50,000 watts ERP on an FM as well as
co-located  ham repeaters on two and 440. Several megawatt (or so it seems!)
pagers system are about a mile away.
The voltage states on the LED indicators can be used for determining
alerts, tests, etc. Should be useful to control an input to a repeater.
FWIW, the EAS decoder/encoders used in broadcast facilities usually
start at over a grand, more like $3000, for a decent one.
Have no experience with the Rat Shack models, but it would seem that
trying to build your own SAME decoder is a lot of work when other options
exists, other than an academic exercise. And I can't think of a legitimate
reason to retransmit SAME codes on amateur frequencies.
I guess if you really need a bullet proof front end you could take the
IF signal out of commercial receiver and insert it into a cheap SAME
receiver's IF chain. Or you could take the discriminator audio from the
commercial receiver into the cheap SAME receiver's detector.
The stock whip antenna on the back of the little midland works just fine
here, but then, the WX station is only six miles away. I think I'd try a
yagi cut to 162 if the signal was weak.

Al, K9SI






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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Weather Radios

[mch]

I have one with an output, but it seems when I checked into it, it was
not suitable for the type of operation we want. I think it was some kind
of data output. This applies to the Radio Shack model, at least.

Besides, a contact closure won't distinguish
between watches and warnings. the LEDs will.

Joe M.

Rich Garcia wrote:
> 
> I see a lot of people talking about having to tap off at the LED. I have 2
> R/S WX receivers here one is SAME and one is not and both have outputs, I
> have not messed with the output but I believe that it is a NO contact that
> closes upon alert and opens when the receiver goes back to mute.  The only
> thing I don't like about it is that most of these radios will mute 4-5
> minutes after the alert message, that is a bit long for my taste but you
> could use the output to fire another relay/timer that is set for lets say
> 2-3 minutes and that could command the repeater controller.
> 
> Rich
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Al Wolfe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 11:56 AM
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Weather Radios
> 
> Why reinvent the wheel? SAME receivers have been out for several years.
> I bought a new Midland for $25 at a hamfest about three years ago. It can be
> programmed for several SAME code counties, different alerts, etc. It works
> well at a broadcast station with 50,000 watts ERP on an FM as well as
> co-located  ham repeaters on two and 440. Several megawatt (or so it seems!)
> pagers system are about a mile away.
> The voltage states on the LED indicators can be used for determining
> alerts, tests, etc. Should be useful to control an input to a repeater.
> FWIW, the EAS decoder/encoders used in broadcast facilities usually
> start at over a grand, more like $3000, for a decent one.
> Have no experience with the Rat Shack models, but it would seem that
> trying to build your own SAME decoder is a lot of work when other options
> exists, other than an academic exercise. And I can't think of a legitimate
> reason to retransmit SAME codes on amateur frequencies.
> I guess if you really need a bullet proof front end you could take the
> IF signal out of commercial receiver and insert it into a cheap SAME
> receiver's IF chain. Or you could take the discriminator audio from the
> commercial receiver into the cheap SAME receiver's detector.
> The stock whip antenna on the back of the little midland works just fine
> here, but then, the WX station is only six miles away. I think I'd try a
> yagi cut to 162 if the signal was weak.
> 
> Al, K9SI
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>




 
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[Repeater-Builder] FS: Service monitors

[Ted Bleiman K9MDM - MDM Radio]

Cushman CE-5 10-520 mhz no gaps with scope and
loband, vhf and uhf plugins..completely rebuilt
and cal'd by Feitek.$750.00

Motorola (systron-donner) S1327A (might be a 'B')
with scope and all plugins in high impact transit
case. completely rebuilt and cal'd by
Feitek$850.00

Cushman CE-31 .1-1000 ghz with pl generator
and manual. recal'd by Cardinal 3 months...was
our bench instrument. relatively light weight
about 35 lbs less bat. 12v operation $1200.00

Pix available for all of these to serious
parties. they are in exc condx. and THEY ALL
COVER 440-450 MHZ. 708-681-0300
delivery available within 400 miles of Chicago
for gas and lunch. safer than UPS.



=
Ted Bleiman K9MDM
MDM Radio Ltd - 
1629-B N. 31 st Ave 
Melrose Park, IL 60160 
708.681.0300 fax 708.681.9800 
web http://www.mdmradio.com - all new check it out!!!
See our website for "DAYTON RAINOUT SPECIALS"








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[Repeater-Builder] Century II Radios & Help.

[w9mwq]

Anyone familiar with the GE Century II radios that can help with a 
PL problem that I am having.  I want to use this radio to replace 
the sad Regency that is in use on the repeater now, and you all know 
the troubles I have had with that one.  Anyways, I got the receiver 
tuned, sensitivity of .18 Uv.  All that came up well.  The problem 
that I am having is with getting the receiver to open with PL.  
There is a board in the bottom of the unit, with dip switches on 
it.  Does not matter which way I put them, it will open with a PL of 
251.4, and if I move the dips all one way, it will open at 221 and 
does all sorts of strange stuff.  

Mathew






 
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[Repeater-Builder] Re: Weather Radios

[hwingate]

You could put an opto-isolator in SERIES with the LEDS, then use the
isolated transistoe output to trigger your controller.
Henry

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, mch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have one with an output, but it seems when I checked into it, it was
> not suitable for the type of operation we want. I think it was some kind
> of data output. This applies to the Radio Shack model, at least.
> 
> Besides, a contact closure won't distinguish
> between watches and warnings. the LEDs will.
> 
> Joe M.
> 
> Rich Garcia wrote:
> > 
> > I see a lot of people talking about having to tap off at the LED.
I have 2
> > R/S WX receivers here one is SAME and one is not and both have
outputs, I
> > have not messed with the output but I believe that it is a NO
contact that
> > closes upon alert and opens when the receiver goes back to mute. 
The only
> > thing I don't like about it is that most of these radios will mute 4-5
> > minutes after the alert message, that is a bit long for my taste
but you
> > could use the output to fire another relay/timer that is set for
lets say
> > 2-3 minutes and that could command the repeater controller.
> > 
> > Rich
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Al Wolfe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 11:56 AM
> > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Weather Radios
> > 
> > Why reinvent the wheel? SAME receivers have been out for
several years.
> > I bought a new Midland for $25 at a hamfest about three years ago.
It can be
> > programmed for several SAME code counties, different alerts, etc.
It works
> > well at a broadcast station with 50,000 watts ERP on an FM as well as
> > co-located  ham repeaters on two and 440. Several megawatt (or so
it seems!)
> > pagers system are about a mile away.
> > The voltage states on the LED indicators can be used for
determining
> > alerts, tests, etc. Should be useful to control an input to a
repeater.
> > FWIW, the EAS decoder/encoders used in broadcast facilities
usually
> > start at over a grand, more like $3000, for a decent one.
> > Have no experience with the Rat Shack models, but it would
seem that
> > trying to build your own SAME decoder is a lot of work when other
options
> > exists, other than an academic exercise. And I can't think of a
legitimate
> > reason to retransmit SAME codes on amateur frequencies.
> > I guess if you really need a bullet proof front end you could
take the
> > IF signal out of commercial receiver and insert it into a cheap SAME
> > receiver's IF chain. Or you could take the discriminator audio
from the
> > commercial receiver into the cheap SAME receiver's detector.
> > The stock whip antenna on the back of the little midland works
just fine
> > here, but then, the WX station is only six miles away. I think I'd
try a
> > yagi cut to 162 if the signal was weak.
> > 
> > Al, K9SI
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: MSR-2000 parts/repair needed

[Chris Peterson]

Hi all,

I'm sorry if my explanation of this problem is incomplete.

The RC-850 was connected through a modification to the squelch gate card.  I
didn't do the mod, but I believe it was done using instructions for
modifying a Micor station on repeater-builder.com.

As for how it got on that frequency, I don't know.  The repeater was
purchased, on that frequency, from a ham club in Iowa, I believe.

I don't know what resources the Motorola shop has.  The director of
emergency management has been doing all of the communication with them so
what I get is from him.  From the sound of things, though, they're not to
helpful.

I have someone I trust work on my own machines, but it isn't politically
correct for him to work on the MSR.

The director of emergency management insists on a Motorola shop doing the
work, and there is only one in town.  He is willing to send it out of town
if it would be cheaper, or more effective.

Anyone know of anyone in southeast MN or southwest WI that would fit the
bill?

Thank you all for the responses thus far.  I'll try to get answers to your
questions and see if we can figure this out.

Thanks and 73,
Chris Peterson, KG0BP



- Original Message -
From: "skipp025" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 10:45 AM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: MSR-2000 parts/repair needed


> > "Chris Peterson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > All,
> > Our local EOC has an MSR-2000 repeater, converted
> > to 146.745- Mhz.
>
> How was it converted?
>
> > It has always had a flaky PA.  The local Motorola
> > shop says there is a crack in the board that broke
> > a trace.  This has failed about every 6 months and
> > the Motorola shop has simply soldered across the
> > trace and temperarily solved the problem.
>
> "temporarily solved the problem" ..?
>
> > Now, though, we're having a different problem.
> > When it gets hot, the repeater TX drops out
> > completely, sometimes for a couple minutes.
> > This, to me, sounds like an exciter problem,
> > or possibly a bad connection between the
> > exciter and PA,
>
> I would not make that assumption. You can use
> the metering points to help find the problem.
>
> > but the Motorola shop has tried to blame
> > the RC-850 that is connected to the repeater.
>
> Consider a different repair shop for your next
> job.
>
> > We've disconnected the RC-850 and still have
> > the problem using the internal controller,
>
> See my comment just above.
>
> > so we believe we've mostly ruled out the
> > modification as being the problem.
>
> What was the modification?
>
> > I'm looking for replacement PAs, exciters, or
> > any other MSR-2000 parts.
>
> Contact me off the group, I can probably help
> you solve your problem.
>
> > I'd also be interested to know if any other
> > Motorola parts will directly
> > drop in.  I.E. Mitrek parts?
>
> Some, not all.  Depending on what band and
> model you have, some Micor and Consolette
> units have some similar parts.
>
> > It's storm season now, so we'd like to get
> > the repeater functioning properly
> > as soon as possible.
> > Thanks and 73,
> > Chris Peterson, KG0BP
>
> cheers
>
> skipp
> www.radiowrench.com
>
> also skipp025 @ yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>





 
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