RE: [Repeater-Builder] Battery backup

[Eric Lemmon]

Danny,

If your batteries are flooded wet cells, as distinct from sealed (VRSLA or
AGM) types, you should take care to vent them to the outdoors.  Wet cell
batteries also require regular monitoring for electrolyte levels and
specific gravity.

If your power supply has any kind of "crowbar" device in its output
circuitry, it is a good idea to have a Schottky diode (not a regular silicon
diode) between the power supply and the battery, with the radio connected
directly at the battery.  This will prevent the power supply from placing a
dead short on the battery when a power line spike causes the crowbar to
fire.  Most Astron linear power supplies have such a circuit.  It's also a
good idea to have fuses in each power lead and in each jumper between
batteries.

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
 

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of wm5c
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 7:31 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Battery backup

Hi,

New member here. Thanks for allowing me to join.
Our club has acquired some large lead-acid 12v batteries we would like 
to use to back up our repeater in emergency situations. Does anyone 
know of a good (but simple and inexpensive [we are a very small group 
in a very small town]) circuit to accomplish this? Any input would be 
appreciated.

Danny WM5C
Heart Of Texas Ham Operators Group (HOTHOG)
Brady, TX

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Battery backup

[Joe Montierth]

The simplest way is just to get the IOTA supply and
float it across the battery. Thats it, nothing else
needed. Get an IOTA big enough to power whatever you
have, and still have some left over for charging. You
don't need (or want) diodes, resistors, or relays.

It shouldn't be that easy, but in this case it is. I
have some commercial sites that we run this way
without problems. We have some with big Astron
supplies, but we are changing them out to the IOTA.
The new supplies will pay for themselves in a couple
of years due to higher efficiency over the linear
Astrons.

The Astrons will also work well, with very minor mods.
You still don't need the diodes. We have used the
Astrons for over 12 years this way, the IOTAs for
about 2.5 .

Joe


--- Richard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I had a similar experience: I had a couple of deep
> cycle batteries in an
> outdoor steel enclosure that I would charge
> periodically by connecting a
> standard automotive charger. At times I would forget
> it was connected, so
> eventually the batteries were cooked. After some
> research on the web, I
> settled on an IOTA DLS-15 power supply with an IQ4
> smart charge controller.
> It is connected full time to the (new) batteries,
> and I only have to add
> water every couple of months. I have not noted any
> kind of noise generated
> by the charger. This setup works very well for me.
> 
> Richard, N7TGB
> 
> 
>   -Original Message-
>   From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf
> Of Dave Schmidt
>   Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 9:26 AM
>   To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
>   Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Battery backup
> 
> 
> 
>   I have to agree with Dave. Using the proper
> charger or power supply for
> keeping the batts up.  I have my batteries housed in
> a stainless steel
> enclosure that is anchored into concrete outside my
> ham shack. I learned the
> hard way about using the proper charger... I just
> tapped into my repeaters
> 25amp power supply to keep the batteries charged
> till I could make a
> charging circuit ... a, big mistake. That
> charging circuit  - oops, I
> forgot... about a month of operation,  I was working
> around the tower and
> smelled what smelled like battery acid. Sure enough,
> I cooked both flooded
> lead acid batteries and they were fuming acid vapor.
> Lucky the box is a
> comercial built ss box.
> 
>   Now, after that incident, I have been using a
> marine (boat) "smart
> charger" which automatically determines wether to
> charge or float. Since
> battery chargers are, ummm, quite noisy and not all
> that nice on batteries
> due to most of them only using a half wave recifier
> ( AC is not nice on
> batteries ). I added a 25A bridge rectifier and
> added extra filtering which
> is just a big Motorola mobile power filter block
> from the Micor dayz. It is
> also isolated using some BIG diodes - like Dave's,
> the threaded case type
> diodes which is bolted to a heatsink.
> 
>   The system is running well in this configuration.
> If using flooded type
> batteries, do a monthly check on acid levels !   I
> recomend AGM batteries
> ( Absorbed Glass Mat ) or if that is a little pricy,
> get marine deep cycle
> batteries - do not use automotive batteries unless
> you just absolutely half
> to.
> 
>   Dave / N9NLU
>   www.kmcg.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   On 1/9/07, ve7ltd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have had good luck using a pair of diodes to
> isolate a power supply
> from a charging circuit. I essentially have a
> Statpower 10amp battery
> charger (specifically designed for the flooded
> cells I am using). The
> batteries float on the charger voltage when the
> AC power is available.
> The battery positive lead then feeds through a
> diode and joins
> the "positive power bus" of my repeaters. Using
> a proper charger is the
> most important part so you dont boil off the
> electrolyte in your
> batteries.
> 
> The positive power bus is fed from a large GE
> power supply. The
> positive lead from the power supply feeds
> through a diode to feed the
> power bus.
> 
> The idea of using a diodes is to keep the higher
> voltage of the power
> supply from passing current into the batteries
> when AC is available,
> and vice versa when AC is off.
> 
> However, if you are using a high power PA or
> your repeater draws more
> than about 20 AMPs on TX, you have to be careful
> of your choices of
> diode. I use large feedthrough diodes, mounted
> on large heatsinks, but
> on lower current draw you could get away with
> using a smaller bridge
> rectifier mounted to an unpainted metal piece in
> your repeater cabinet
> with some heatsink compound.
> 
> Dave Cameron
> VE7LTD
> 
> --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "wm5c"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > New member here. Thanks for allowing me to
> join.
> > Ou

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Battery backup

[Mike Morris WA6ILQ]

At 07:31 PM 01/08/07, you wrote:
>Hi,
>
>New member here.  Thanks for allowing me to join.
>Our club has acquired some large lead-acid 12v batteries we would like
>to use to back up our repeater in emergency situations.  Does anyone
>know of a good (but simple and inexpensive [we are a very small group
>in a very small town]) circuit to accomplish this?  Any input would be
>appreciated.
>
>Danny WM5C
>Heart Of Texas Ham Operators Group (HOTHOG)
>Brady, TX
>www.hothog.org

Run the system off the battery, and use a top quality automatic
charger to keep the battery up, and make sure the charger is fail
safe.

You don't need a failed charger boiling and cooking your expensive battery
bank. A good reference is Home Power Magazine at www.homepower.com
HPM is the bible of the off-the-power-grid community, and the web site has
a wealth of information.

Plus, they walk the walk as well as talk the talk - the entire magazine is
produced with home-made electrical power, and it's edited and published
by a ham. They simply do all the layout on computers, then zip up the
layout files and email them to the printing / mailing house.

They periodically package all the back issues for several years on a CD
(one PDF file per monthly magazine).  The CDs make searching for a
topic easy.  More information is on their web site.

Another source is the RV community.  Many of the tour-bus sized motor
homes have 12v battery banks that are charged by a dedicated alternator
off the main diesel engine, and some have a small generator that provides
AC power when parked.  Most have an automatic charger that can keep
the battery up when plugged into what they call "shore power" (the term
comes from the marine environment).
So check out the RV supplier web sites. But take anything you read at
a sales site with the proverbial grain of salt - google (and google groups)
the manufacturer and model and see if anybody is complaining about it.

Mike WA6ILQ

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Vhf Repeater

[Nate Bargmann]

* frank james73 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007 Jan 09 10:43 -0600]:
> Ok thanks wheres a good site that tells how to do all of this? 73's

http://www.repeater-builder.com/rbtip/

Google will reveal many more.

73, de Nate >>

-- 
 Wireless | Amateur Radio Station N0NB  |  Successfully Microsoft
  Amateur radio exams; ham radio; Linux info @  | free since January 1998.
 http://www.qsl.net/n0nb/   |  "Debian, the choice of
 My Kawasaki KZ-650 SR @| a GNU generation!"
http://www.networksplus.net/n0nb/   |   http://www.debian.org

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Radio Tone Control

[Tony Faiola]

Kent Chong wrote:
> Hello,
>  
> Would like to control ICOM, and Vertex radio remotelly by using the 
> tone, for example, change channel, PTT etc. Anybody know the remote 
> control tone standard? Where could I find the informtion?
>  
> Best Regards,
>  
> Chong Kwan Meng 

Hello Kent:

I'm not sure if you received any definitive answers concerning your query.

Many of the Motorola and GE base stations used tone or DC remote radio 
control consoles.  In some cases, the supplied stations already were 
equipped with the remote tone panel, and in others, they were purchased 
as a complete remote system.  Sometimes, DC telco leased line were 
utilized and sometimes audio telco lines, whatever was available at the 
time.

These remotes could handle one PTT or more (typically 2175 Hz) and 
multiple frequencies (F1-1950 Hz, F2-1850 Hz, etc), and Monitor (2050 
Hz).  Vega Signaling Products, Telex Communications, Inc. manufactured 
these products, and there are a number of others.

Without going on with more details, go to this website 
 and check out the many varieties of 
products mainly for signaling.  They had, and maybe still do, a fax back 
feature to download their manuals.  It was loaded with neat circuits of 
their signaling products, and could give you lots of ideas and information.

Some of the other radio manufacturers had some special requirements for 
their remote signaling (don't they all?), but we accomodated almost all 
of them.

Have fun.

Ciao, Tony, K3WX

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Vhf Repeater

[Mike Morris WA6ILQ]

At 05:11 AM 01/09/07, Nate Bargmann N0NB wrote:
>* IF YOUR NICE I MAY TELL YOU <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007 Jan 
>09 06:55 -0600]:
> > Hi all you know they say there is no dumb question unless you didnt
> > ask it and messed things up so here goes .I am wanting to make a cheap
> > repeater system for 2 meter and I really need some input on how to put
> > one together and also once its built is there a special licence to
> > operate it?Thanks 73'3
>
>If you're in the USA, no special license is required so long as you
>hold a Technician class or higher.  The first thing you need to do
>before investing time and money is to contact your local frequency
>coordinator and get a frequency pair coordinated.  Without proper
>coordination, the FCC will hold you fully accountable for resolving
>interference to a coordinated system.

Don't be surprised if many coordinators WON'T give you a frequency,
at least at first.
The two meter band is FULL in most areas - locally the waiting list
here is measured in decades.  Get a repeater directory and plot the
repeaters in a 100 mile diameter circle in your area, then borrow a
100w mobile, and drive to the highest ground in your area. Key up
with each of the 32 PL tones on every channel, even those that
aren't in the book (not every repeater is listed).  You may discover,
as the ones around here do, that every channel has at least one high
level or two or three low level systems.  So they chose to go to 52Mhz,
220MHz, 450MHz, 900mhz or 1200mhz.

Another reason for the coordinator to look skeptically at you is that
over the years they've been burned by too many well intentioned
folks that don't follow through.  This is why in many areas there are
what are called SNP channels - Shared Non Protected pairs that
the coordinator tells the potential system builders to build their
systems on.  Once the coordinator (or his agent) can kerchunk
your system for himself (and not from right in front of your house)
then he knows that you are for real, and issues you a real frequency.
Around here the coordinator even helps you sell off the "test pair"
channel elements to the next newbie.

>As for "cheap" equipment, as the equipment gets cheaper, your
>investment in time increases.  It's almost a linear relationship.  That
>said, I've had good results with a pair of Motorola Mitrek mobile
>radios.  There is not enough isolation within one radio at 2 meters to
>get by with only one.  Also, the modifications are fewer when two
>radios are used, plus you can make them to be a ready spare for the
>other function.

And some of the "off brands" like Aerotron go for "get it out of my
garage" prices.  For years one very good local machine used an
Aerotron 100w UHF transmitter and a Motorola Micor receiver
(the club jokingly called it a "Micor-tron").

The problem with off-brands is twofold: finding documentation,and
finding help.  The latter can really hurt - if you were to pop up here
and say something like "I have a high band Micor and can't get the
exciter to tune down from 155mhz to 146.82mhz" you'd have
several folks walking you through the process, and maybe one or
two offering extra boars in case yours was bad. And I remember
a couple of cases where one reader drove across half a state to
help another get a system on the air.  If you had a Repco, or a
Uniden, a Aerotron, or a Ritron, you'd find that you'd be very very
lonely...

>To be really cheap, you'll have to avoid the duplexer.  So, this pretty
>much dictates a "split site" repeater which adds the complexity of a
>link between the receive and transmit sites.  Also, a split machine
>will suffer from uneven coverage between RX and TX.

If you have a decent antenna structure at both ends the link can
be fleapowered.  I've seen a split site repeater with a  250 milliwatt
link on 420MHz, and it was a hop of over a mile. The key was
the (homebrew) 420MHz Yagi antennas on each end.

The particular repeater is a continuous duty GE Mastr II station
(originally on 46MHz, moved to 52Mhz) that the owner swapped
the receiver out with the one in a 420mhz UHF mobile.
The mobile sits at the other site with the low band receiver installed
and the transmitter PA deck disabled - the exciter is jumpered to the
antenna feedline.

>Duplexers aren't cheap even when bought used.

That's very true - they don't depreciate.  And you want to be careful
of the ones on eBay, as they might have been nailed by lightning,
or be damaged.  I saw one that had a bullet hole in it.

>Once purchased
>they need to be tuned onto the correct frequencies.  This is easily
>done with a tracking generator, but can also be accomplished with
>a signal generator and a spectrum analyzer.

And the equipment to do that is EXPENSIVE, but it only has to be
done once - and I've heard of it done in exchange for a tank of gas
and lunch.  Just treat that just-tuned duplexer as if it was a case of
thin shelled eggs. With some brands you get a huge percentage of
the performance with a 10 degree twis

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB413 Antenna Question

[Steve Rubeck]

Larry,
Very true, it is good gain, I just have to get up there and straighten things 
out.
Plus once I get the output power back up to where it belongs the DB408 should 
handle that just fine too. Thanks again for the input.

Steve


Laryn Lohman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  
 
 Hmmm... Can't help you with the DB420.
 
 I'd consider keeping the DB413.  It has 12dbd gain in front and still
 has 6dbd gain in the back, not shabby back there.  Perhaps you have an
 area where you would like to receive a little better with handhelds,
 just a thought.  By the way, it is  to receive on your
 best/highest antenna.  Repeater range is almost always limited by
 talkback.  *So what* if you can hear it but can't get into it
 
 Laryn K8TVZ
 
 
 
   

 __
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: WTB: GE EXEC II 66 Split receiver for mobile radio

[Bob Dengler]

At 1/9/2007 08:10 AM, you wrote:
>Mathew Quaife wrote:
> > Actually I have several 56 splits.  When I ordered the xtal, I
> > ordered for high side injection, and it does not want to tune up real
> > well.  Put a 147.78 LSI, and it tunes to better than -110 dBm.  So
> > this is the reason I want to try a 66 split and see if it will do any
> > better.
> >
> > Mathew
>
>How about taking the L.O./multiplier board(s) out of a 66 and swap 'em
>into the 56?
>
>--
>Jim Barbour
>WD8CHL

You'd also have to swap the helical assemblies, as the LO coils are different.

Bob NO6B

RE: [Repeater-Builder] MFJ_2040 Autopatch repeater controller

[Mike Morris WA6ILQ]

If anybody wants to PDF it then send me a file and it will appear
automagically on repeater-builder...

Mike

At 07:16 AM 01/09/07, you wrote:

Heh... Same thing I found; Google is your friend. 
Richard, N7TGB

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mike Pugh

Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 6:57 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] MFJ_2040 Autopatch repeater controller

<http://www.surplussales.com/Manuals/man_mfj.html>

Has it listed available for $10.. Mike

w2drh wrote:

>
>
> Hi ALL
> I have an MFJ-2040 Autopatch repeater controller. I deperately need the
> manual for it. Can anyone please help? Thank you!
> Dave

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Battery backup

[Mike Morris WA6ILQ]

One source of (almost) free diode pairs is any alternator shop.  The
common configuration of diodes in an alternator has three on a
plate, and two plates.  One plate is common anode, the other plate
is common cathode.

The common failure mode is that one diode opens or shorts and the
technician replaces the entire plate. This means that two perfectly
20 to 75 amp premounted diodes (depending on the alternator
current rating) goes in the trash.  Some shops press out the
good diodes and reuse them, many don't.

At one site I've seen an alternator diode plate with two diodes (it was
obvious that the bad diode was on the end that was hacksawed off)
mounted to an insulator block and that on a rack panel.

Mike WA6ILQ

At 09:25 AM 01/09/07, you wrote:
I have to agree with Dave. Using the proper charger or power supply 
for keeping the batts up.  I have my batteries housed in a stainless 
steel enclosure that is anchored into concrete outside my ham shack. 
I learned the hard way about using the proper charger... I just 
tapped into my repeaters 25amp power supply to keep the batteries 
charged till I could make a charging circuit ... a, big mistake. 
That charging circuit  - oops, I forgot... about a month of 
operation,  I was working around the tower and smelled what smelled 
like battery acid. Sure enough, I cooked both flooded lead acid 
batteries and they were fuming acid vapor. Lucky the box is a 
comercial built ss box.


Now, after that incident, I have been using a marine (boat) "smart 
charger" which automatically determines wether to charge or float. 
Since battery chargers are, ummm, quite noisy and not all that nice 
on batteries due to most of them only using a half wave recifier ( 
AC is not nice on batteries ). I added a 25A bridge rectifier and 
added extra filtering which is just a big Motorola mobile power 
filter block from the Micor dayz. It is also isolated using some BIG 
diodes - like Dave's, the threaded case type diodes which is bolted 
to a heatsink.


The system is running well in this configuration. If using flooded 
type batteries, do a monthly check on acid levels !   I recomend AGM 
batteries ( Absorbed Glass Mat ) or if that is a little pricy, get 
marine deep cycle batteries - do not use automotive batteries unless 
you just absolutely half to.


Dave / N9NLU
www.kmcg.org







On 1/9/07, ve7ltd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I have had good luck using a pair of diodes to isolate a power supply
from a charging circuit. I essentially have a Statpower 10amp battery
charger (specifically designed for the flooded cells I am using). The
batteries float on the charger voltage when the AC power is available.
The battery positive lead then feeds through a diode and joins
the "positive power bus" of my repeaters. Using a proper charger is the
most important part so you dont boil off the electrolyte in your
batteries.

The positive power bus is fed from a large GE power supply. The
positive lead from the power supply feeds through a diode to feed the
power bus.

The idea of using a diodes is to keep the higher voltage of the power
supply from passing current into the batteries when AC is available,
and vice versa when AC is off.

However, if you are using a high power PA or your repeater draws more
than about 20 AMPs on TX, you have to be careful of your choices of
diode. I use large feedthrough diodes, mounted on large heatsinks, but
on lower current draw you could get away with using a smaller bridge
rectifier mounted to an unpainted metal piece in your repeater cabinet
with some heatsink compound.

Dave Cameron
VE7LTD

--- In 
Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, 
"wm5c" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> New member here. Thanks for allowing me to join.
> Our club has acquired some large lead-acid 12v batteries we would
like
> to use to back up our repeater in emergency situations. Does anyone
> know of a good (but simple and inexpensive [we are a very small group
> in a very small town]) circuit to accomplish this? Any input would
be
> appreciated.
>
> Danny WM5C
> Heart Of Texas Ham Operators Group (HOTHOG)
> Brady, TX
> www.hothog.org
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] MFJ_2040 Autopatch repeater controller

[Mike Pugh]

very true.. Mike

Richard wrote:
> 
> 
> Heh... Same thing I found; Google is your friend. 
> Richard, N7TGB
>  
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mike Pugh
> Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 6:57 AM
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] MFJ_2040 Autopatch repeater controller
> 
>  >
> 
> Has it listed available for $10.. Mike
> 
> w2drh wrote:
> 
>  >
>  >
>  > Hi ALL
>  > I have an MFJ-2040 Autopatch repeater controller. I deperately
> need the
>  > manual for it. Can anyone please help? Thank you!
>  > Dave
> 
> 

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Battery backup

[Richard]

I had a similar experience: I had a couple of deep cycle batteries in an
outdoor steel enclosure that I would charge periodically by connecting a
standard automotive charger. At times I would forget it was connected, so
eventually the batteries were cooked. After some research on the web, I
settled on an IOTA DLS-15 power supply with an IQ4 smart charge controller.
It is connected full time to the (new) batteries, and I only have to add
water every couple of months. I have not noted any kind of noise generated
by the charger. This setup works very well for me.

Richard, N7TGB


  -Original Message-
  From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dave Schmidt
  Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 9:26 AM
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Battery backup



  I have to agree with Dave. Using the proper charger or power supply for
keeping the batts up.  I have my batteries housed in a stainless steel
enclosure that is anchored into concrete outside my ham shack. I learned the
hard way about using the proper charger... I just tapped into my repeaters
25amp power supply to keep the batteries charged till I could make a
charging circuit ... a, big mistake. That charging circuit  - oops, I
forgot... about a month of operation,  I was working around the tower and
smelled what smelled like battery acid. Sure enough, I cooked both flooded
lead acid batteries and they were fuming acid vapor. Lucky the box is a
comercial built ss box.

  Now, after that incident, I have been using a marine (boat) "smart
charger" which automatically determines wether to charge or float. Since
battery chargers are, ummm, quite noisy and not all that nice on batteries
due to most of them only using a half wave recifier ( AC is not nice on
batteries ). I added a 25A bridge rectifier and added extra filtering which
is just a big Motorola mobile power filter block from the Micor dayz. It is
also isolated using some BIG diodes - like Dave's, the threaded case type
diodes which is bolted to a heatsink.

  The system is running well in this configuration. If using flooded type
batteries, do a monthly check on acid levels !   I recomend AGM batteries
( Absorbed Glass Mat ) or if that is a little pricy, get marine deep cycle
batteries - do not use automotive batteries unless you just absolutely half
to.

  Dave / N9NLU
  www.kmcg.org







  On 1/9/07, ve7ltd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I have had good luck using a pair of diodes to isolate a power supply
from a charging circuit. I essentially have a Statpower 10amp battery
charger (specifically designed for the flooded cells I am using). The
batteries float on the charger voltage when the AC power is available.
The battery positive lead then feeds through a diode and joins
the "positive power bus" of my repeaters. Using a proper charger is the
most important part so you dont boil off the electrolyte in your
batteries.

The positive power bus is fed from a large GE power supply. The
positive lead from the power supply feeds through a diode to feed the
power bus.

The idea of using a diodes is to keep the higher voltage of the power
supply from passing current into the batteries when AC is available,
and vice versa when AC is off.

However, if you are using a high power PA or your repeater draws more
than about 20 AMPs on TX, you have to be careful of your choices of
diode. I use large feedthrough diodes, mounted on large heatsinks, but
on lower current draw you could get away with using a smaller bridge
rectifier mounted to an unpainted metal piece in your repeater cabinet
with some heatsink compound.

Dave Cameron
VE7LTD

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "wm5c" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> New member here. Thanks for allowing me to join.
> Our club has acquired some large lead-acid 12v batteries we would
like
> to use to back up our repeater in emergency situations. Does anyone
> know of a good (but simple and inexpensive [we are a very small group
> in a very small town]) circuit to accomplish this? Any input would
be
> appreciated.
>
> Danny WM5C
> Heart Of Texas Ham Operators Group (HOTHOG)
> Brady, TX
> www.hothog.org
>






  

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Vhf Repeater

[Ralph Mowery]

--- IF YOUR NICE I MAY TELL YOU
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi all you know they say there is no dumb question
> unless you didnt
> ask it and messed things up so here goes .I am
> wanting to make a cheap
> repeater system for 2 meter and I really need some
> input on how to put
> one together and also once its built is there a
> special licence to
> operate it?Thanks 73'3
> 
> 
>

There is no special 2 meter repeater license if you do
not call a Technicial or higher ham license 'special'.


It is difficult to put together a cheep 2 meter
repeater as the cost of a duplexer is usually the
major cost.  You can use a GE Mastr ll mobile and a
power supply for the basic radio.  There are several
controllers that can be used for a low price.  After
that the duplexer,hardline,and antenna will be a very
large expense.

YOu may want to look at a 440 MHz repeater.  Comercial
duplexers can sometimes be found without too much
cost.
The radio and controler will be about the same as a
two meter repeater.



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[Repeater-Builder] ge mastr base stuff needed

[Ryan]

Hi group,
I am looking to buy the following items for a ge mastr vhf highband 
base factory preamp part # 19c320215g1 or 19c320215g2 for 147.690 mhz 
and if anyone has the premade n female bulk mount to bnc male cable 
assemblys and the bnc male to rca male commonly found in units that 
have the pizro crystal filter installed. would be great. just wondering 
what everyone has seen as sensvity in microvolts on a base unit. the 
unit i have now opens with pl at .092 mv this is good but is this 
normal. also the rx is the dull color unit.
my email is [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Thanks in advance,
Ryan n3ssl 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Battery backup

[Dave Schmidt]

I have to agree with Dave. Using the proper charger or power supply for
keeping the batts up.  I have my batteries housed in a stainless steel
enclosure that is anchored into concrete outside my ham shack. I learned the
hard way about using the proper charger... I just tapped into my repeaters
25amp power supply to keep the batteries charged till I could make a
charging circuit ... a, big mistake. That charging circuit  - oops, I
forgot... about a month of operation,  I was working around the tower and
smelled what smelled like battery acid. Sure enough, I cooked both flooded
lead acid batteries and they were fuming acid vapor. Lucky the box is a
comercial built ss box.

Now, after that incident, I have been using a marine (boat) "smart charger"
which automatically determines wether to charge or float. Since battery
chargers are, ummm, quite noisy and not all that nice on batteries due to
most of them only using a half wave recifier ( AC is not nice on batteries
). I added a 25A bridge rectifier and added extra filtering which is just a
big Motorola mobile power filter block from the Micor dayz. It is also
isolated using some BIG diodes - like Dave's, the threaded case type diodes
which is bolted to a heatsink.

The system is running well in this configuration. If using flooded type
batteries, do a monthly check on acid levels !   I recomend AGM batteries (
Absorbed Glass Mat ) or if that is a little pricy, get marine deep cycle
batteries - do not use automotive batteries unless you just absolutely half
to.

Dave / N9NLU
www.kmcg.org







On 1/9/07, ve7ltd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


  I have had good luck using a pair of diodes to isolate a power supply
from a charging circuit. I essentially have a Statpower 10amp battery
charger (specifically designed for the flooded cells I am using). The
batteries float on the charger voltage when the AC power is available.
The battery positive lead then feeds through a diode and joins
the "positive power bus" of my repeaters. Using a proper charger is the
most important part so you dont boil off the electrolyte in your
batteries.

The positive power bus is fed from a large GE power supply. The
positive lead from the power supply feeds through a diode to feed the
power bus.

The idea of using a diodes is to keep the higher voltage of the power
supply from passing current into the batteries when AC is available,
and vice versa when AC is off.

However, if you are using a high power PA or your repeater draws more
than about 20 AMPs on TX, you have to be careful of your choices of
diode. I use large feedthrough diodes, mounted on large heatsinks, but
on lower current draw you could get away with using a smaller bridge
rectifier mounted to an unpainted metal piece in your repeater cabinet
with some heatsink compound.

Dave Cameron
VE7LTD

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com,
"wm5c" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> New member here. Thanks for allowing me to join.
> Our club has acquired some large lead-acid 12v batteries we would
like
> to use to back up our repeater in emergency situations. Does anyone
> know of a good (but simple and inexpensive [we are a very small group
> in a very small town]) circuit to accomplish this? Any input would
be
> appreciated.
>
> Danny WM5C
> Heart Of Texas Ham Operators Group (HOTHOG)
> Brady, TX
> www.hothog.org
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Battery backup

[w5zit]

A really simple circuit that I have used in a couple of repeaters uses 
three power diodes and a resistor. Select diodes that will carry the 
repeater load at about 50% of their rating.

Place one diode in series with the power supply to the repeater. This 
one keeps the voltage from backing up into the power supply when power 
is being supplied from the battery. Next, place a power diode in series 
 from the battery to the repeater. Then place a power diode in series 
with a 10 ohm power resistor (50 watts or so) from the power supply to 
the battery. This keeps the battery charged. The resistor limits the 
inrush current from the power supply in case the battery gets 
discharged. It also limits the maximum current the power supply has to 
deliver when bringing up a discharged battery.

Adjust the voltage from the power supply to float the battery at 13.5 
VDC, or as close to that value as possible. Do this after the batteries 
are charged and power is being supplied to the repeater from the power 
supply and not the battery. This will minimize electrolyte loss while 
providing a reasonable capacity from the batteries.

Hope this helps -

73 - Jim W5ZIT

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 9:31 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Battery backup

Hi,

New member here. Thanks for allowing me to join.
Our club has acquired some large lead-acid 12v batteries we would like
to use to back up our repeater in emergency situations. Does anyone
know of a good (but simple and inexpensive [we are a very small group
in a very small town]) circuit to accomplish this? Any input would be
appreciated.

Danny WM5C
Heart Of Texas Ham Operators Group (HOTHOG)
Brady, TX
www.hothog.org






Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and 
industry-leading spam and email virus protection.

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Battery backup

[ve7ltd]

I have had good luck using a pair of diodes to isolate a power supply 
from a charging circuit. I essentially have a Statpower 10amp battery 
charger (specifically designed for the flooded cells I am using). The 
batteries float on the charger voltage when the AC power is available. 
The battery positive lead then feeds through a diode and joins 
the "positive power bus" of my repeaters. Using a proper charger is the 
most important part so you dont boil off the electrolyte in your 
batteries.

The positive power bus is fed from a large GE power supply. The 
positive lead from the power supply feeds through a diode to feed the 
power bus.

The idea of using a diodes is to keep the higher voltage of the power 
supply from passing current into the batteries when AC is available, 
and vice versa when AC is off.

However, if you are using a high power PA or your repeater draws more 
than about 20 AMPs on TX, you have to be careful of your choices of 
diode. I use large feedthrough diodes, mounted on large heatsinks, but 
on lower current draw you could get away with using a smaller bridge 
rectifier mounted to an unpainted metal piece in your repeater cabinet 
with some heatsink compound.

Dave Cameron
VE7LTD



--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "wm5c" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> Hi,
> 
> New member here.  Thanks for allowing me to join.
> Our club has acquired some large lead-acid 12v batteries we would 
like 
> to use to back up our repeater in emergency situations.  Does anyone 
> know of a good (but simple and inexpensive [we are a very small group 
> in a very small town]) circuit to accomplish this?  Any input would 
be 
> appreciated.
> 
> Danny WM5C
> Heart Of Texas Ham Operators Group (HOTHOG)
> Brady, TX
> www.hothog.org
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Vhf Repeater

[frank james73]

Ok thanks wheres a good site that tells how to do all of this? 73's


>From: Nate Bargmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
>To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Vhf Repeater
>Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 07:11:22 -0600
>
>* IF YOUR NICE I MAY TELL YOU <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007 Jan 09 
>06:55 -0600]:
> > Hi all you know they say there is no dumb question unless you didnt
> > ask it and messed things up so here goes .I am wanting to make a cheap
> > repeater system for 2 meter and I really need some input on how to put
> > one together and also once its built is there a special licence to
> > operate it?Thanks 73'3
>
>If you're in the USA, no special license is required so long as you
>hold a Technician class or higher.  The first thing you need to do
>before investing time and money is to contact your local frequency
>coordinator and get a frequency pair coordinated.  Without proper
>coordination, the FCC will hold you fully accountable for resolving
>interference to a coordinated system.
>
>As for "cheap" equipment, as the equipment gets cheaper, your
>investment in time increases.  It's almost a linear relationship.  That
>said, I've had good results with a pair of Motorola Mitrek mobile
>radios.  There is not enough isolation within one radio at 2 meters to
>get by with only one.  Also, the modifications are fewer when two
>radios are used, plus you can make them to be a ready spare for the
>other function.
>
>To be really cheap, you'll have to avoid the duplexer.  So, this pretty
>much dictates a "split site" repeater which adds the complexity of a
>link between the receive and transmit sites.  Also, a split machine
>will suffer from uneven coverage between RX and TX.
>
>Duplexers aren't cheap even when bought used.  Once purchased they need
>to be tuned onto the correct frequencies.  This is easily done with a
>tracking generator, but can also be accomplished with a signal
>generator and a spectrum analyzer.
>
>Then there is feedline and antenna.  Nothing less than hardline will do
>and avoid fiberglass antennas like the plague.  Uless you like chasing
>noise problems...
>
>73, de Nate >>
>
>--
>  Wireless | Amateur Radio Station N0NB  |  Successfully Microsoft
>   Amateur radio exams; ham radio; Linux info @  | free since January 1998.
>  http://www.qsl.net/n0nb/   |  "Debian, the choice of
>  My Kawasaki KZ-650 SR @| a GNU generation!"
> http://www.networksplus.net/n0nb/   |   http://www.debian.org

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by Pandora. http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: WTB: GE EXEC II 66 Split receiver for mobile radio

[Jim B.]

Mathew Quaife wrote:
> Actually I have several 56 splits.  When I ordered the xtal, I
> ordered for high side injection, and it does not want to tune up real
> well.  Put a 147.78 LSI, and it tunes to better than -110 dBm.  So
> this is the reason I want to try a 66 split and see if it will do any
> better.
> 
> Mathew

How about taking the L.O./multiplier board(s) out of a 66 and swap 'em 
into the 56?

-- 
Jim Barbour
WD8CHL

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Battery backup

[Phil]

what equipment are you using now?
   
  astron makes a automatic switch (it automagicly switches from AC to DC with 
loss of AC)
  there are a couple other makers, I'm sure.
   
  you'll also have to consider battery charger(s) too.

wm5c <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  Hi,

New member here. Thanks for allowing me to join.
Our club has acquired some large lead-acid 12v batteries we would like 
to use to back up our repeater in emergency situations. Does anyone 
know of a good (but simple and inexpensive [we are a very small group 
in a very small town]) circuit to accomplish this? Any input would be 
appreciated.

Danny WM5C
Heart Of Texas Ham Operators Group (HOTHOG)
Brady, TX
www.hothog.org



 

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Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] MFJ_2040 Autopatch repeater controller

[Richard]

Heh... Same thing I found; Google is your friend. 
Richard, N7TGB

  -Original Message-
  From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mike Pugh
  Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 6:57 AM
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] MFJ_2040 Autopatch repeater controller


  

  Has it listed available for $10.. Mike

  w2drh wrote:

  >
  >
  > Hi ALL
  > I have an MFJ-2040 Autopatch repeater controller. I deperately need the
  > manual for it. Can anyone please help? Thank you!
  > Dave


  

Re: [Repeater-Builder] MFJ_2040 Autopatch repeater controller

[Mike Pugh]

Has it listed available for $10.. Mike

w2drh wrote:

> 
> 
> Hi ALL
> I have an MFJ-2040 Autopatch repeater controller. I deperately need the
> manual for it. Can anyone please help? Thank you!
> Dave

[Repeater-Builder] MFJ_2040 Autopatch repeater controller

[w2drh]

Hi ALL
I have an MFJ-2040 Autopatch repeater controller. I deperately need the 
manual for it. Can anyone please help? Thank you!
Dave

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Vhf Repeater

[Nate Bargmann]

* IF YOUR NICE I MAY TELL YOU <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007 Jan 09 06:55 -0600]:
> Hi all you know they say there is no dumb question unless you didnt
> ask it and messed things up so here goes .I am wanting to make a cheap
> repeater system for 2 meter and I really need some input on how to put
> one together and also once its built is there a special licence to
> operate it?Thanks 73'3

If you're in the USA, no special license is required so long as you
hold a Technician class or higher.  The first thing you need to do
before investing time and money is to contact your local frequency
coordinator and get a frequency pair coordinated.  Without proper
coordination, the FCC will hold you fully accountable for resolving
interference to a coordinated system.

As for "cheap" equipment, as the equipment gets cheaper, your
investment in time increases.  It's almost a linear relationship.  That
said, I've had good results with a pair of Motorola Mitrek mobile
radios.  There is not enough isolation within one radio at 2 meters to
get by with only one.  Also, the modifications are fewer when two
radios are used, plus you can make them to be a ready spare for the
other function.

To be really cheap, you'll have to avoid the duplexer.  So, this pretty
much dictates a "split site" repeater which adds the complexity of a
link between the receive and transmit sites.  Also, a split machine
will suffer from uneven coverage between RX and TX.

Duplexers aren't cheap even when bought used.  Once purchased they need
to be tuned onto the correct frequencies.  This is easily done with a
tracking generator, but can also be accomplished with a signal
generator and a spectrum analyzer.

Then there is feedline and antenna.  Nothing less than hardline will do
and avoid fiberglass antennas like the plague.  Uless you like chasing
noise problems...

73, de Nate >>

-- 
 Wireless | Amateur Radio Station N0NB  |  Successfully Microsoft
  Amateur radio exams; ham radio; Linux info @  | free since January 1998.
 http://www.qsl.net/n0nb/   |  "Debian, the choice of
 My Kawasaki KZ-650 SR @| a GNU generation!"
http://www.networksplus.net/n0nb/   |   http://www.debian.org

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: identifying origin of signal in large link systems

[Chris Peterson]

Ron,

Yes, as a matter of fact, we are using half-duplex transceivers for each 
link, and some links go through multiple "hops" which makes your 24 
input tail beep generater method unusable.

We do infact put a tail beep on each transceiver (only when the received 
signal is coming in on the repeater's main receiver).  So, our ideal 
solution would be a tail beep generater which would sit in between a 
full-featured controller of our choice, and it's main receiver.

Of course, if there were a controller that allowed us to generate a tail 
beep on a half-duplex (remote base) style link, that would be even 
better...  I've proposed this to several controller manufacturers, 
though, but thus far noone has chosen to implement this feature that I 
know of...

Thanks,
Chris, KG0BP





Ron Wright, Skywarn Coodinator wrote:
>
> Chris,
>
> In the Cincinnati, OH, area is the 145.19 with many linked repeaters
> and remote receive sites. Last I heard over 30 linked sites.
>
> We used a CW character as a tail beep for each. Such as a C for
> Connersville. I built a CW tail beep unit that had 24 inputs each
> with its own CW character. This worked fine until we got more than
> 24 links. We then changed the tone from 1000 Hz to 500 Hz and used
> the CW character/tail beep and the tone to ID the linked unit. This
> worked well for there was a voter at the main tx site so was easy to
> set up.
>
> If you do not have this one site to do all then a few controllers
> allow programming a CW character for the tail beep. One can then set
> the tail beep to a character associated with the linked repeater.
>
> But all depends on how you are linking. If linking with transceivers
> from the distant repeaters one would have to put a tail beep on each
> link tx to ID itself.
>
> 73, ron, n9ee/r
>
> --- In Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com 
> , Chris Peterson <[EMAIL 
> PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'm involved in a large linked system (about 15 repeaters at
> present).
> > One of the goals of the system is that, regardless of the repeater,
> the
> > user should hear a different courtesy tone for each site in the
> system.
> >
> > I'm just curious, are there any large link systems that do this,
> and if
> > so, what method do you use to propagate the site IDs?
> >
> > We have a method today, which works, but is not really supported by
> any
> > of the controller manufacturers. So, we've come up with some kind
> of
> > buggy custom macros for the SCOM 7K, whwhich don't transfer well to
> > other controllers. This means we're constantly looking for used
> 7Ks on
> > ebay to add more repeaters to the system.
> >
> > We've added one RC210, and would like to add more, but it has its
> own
> > problems.
> >
> > I'll be happy to describe what we're doing, and some ideas we've
> had for
> > improvement, in a separate email, but for now, I'm curious to know
> what
> > other systems are doing.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Chris, KG0BP
> >
>
>  

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Radio Tone Control

[Sean Fitzharris]

CPI Communications has several Tone Remote products as well, but as
mentioned the multi-channel control equipment is mainly for Motorola and
Kenwood.   That said if your radio can support BCD control you might be in
luck.

http://www.cpicomm.com

-Sean

> Some info can be found on the Midian site in pdf at the following link
>
> http://www.midians.com/pdf/tone_signaling.pdf
>
> Telex has some info on their site as well, but most common commercial
> gear only interfaces to certain radios for multiple channel control
> otherwise you are limited to one two or four channel remotes.
>
> Vince
>
> Kent Chong wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> Would like to control ICOM, and Vertex radio remotelly by using the
>> tone, for example, change channel, PTT etc. Anybody know the remote
>> control tone standard? Where could I find the informtion?
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Chong Kwan Meng
>>
>> Send instant messages to your online friends
>> http://asia.messenger.yahoo.com
>

[Repeater-Builder] Vhf Repeater

[IF YOUR NICE I MAY TELL YOU]

Hi all you know they say there is no dumb question unless you didnt
ask it and messed things up so here goes .I am wanting to make a cheap
repeater system for 2 meter and I really need some input on how to put
one together and also once its built is there a special licence to
operate it?Thanks 73'3

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Radio Tone Control

[Sean Fitzharris]

CPI Communications has several Tone Remote products as well, but as
mentioned the multi-channel control equipment is mainly for Motorola and
Kenwood.   That said if you radio can support BCD control you might be in
luck.

http://www.cpicomm.com

-Sean

> Some info can be found on the Midian site in pdf at the following link
>
> http://www.midians.com/pdf/tone_signaling.pdf
>
> Telex has some info on their site as well, but most common commercial
> gear only interfaces to certain radios for multiple channel control
> otherwise you are limited to one two or four channel remotes.
>
> Vince
>
> Kent Chong wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> Would like to control ICOM, and Vertex radio remotelly by using the
>> tone, for example, change channel, PTT etc. Anybody know the remote
>> control tone standard? Where could I find the informtion?
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Chong Kwan Meng
>>
>> Send instant messages to your online friends
>> http://asia.messenger.yahoo.com
>

[Repeater-Builder] Battery backup

[wm5c]

Hi,

New member here.  Thanks for allowing me to join.
Our club has acquired some large lead-acid 12v batteries we would like 
to use to back up our repeater in emergency situations.  Does anyone 
know of a good (but simple and inexpensive [we are a very small group 
in a very small town]) circuit to accomplish this?  Any input would be 
appreciated.

Danny WM5C
Heart Of Texas Ham Operators Group (HOTHOG)
Brady, TX
www.hothog.org

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Looking for a PL Reed

[Jim, K8COP]

Still looking for a reed.


Jim, K8COP

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Radio Tone Control

[Gareth Bennett]

Vertex Standard VX-2200 and 4200 series radios can be channel changed via BCD 
addressible  pins from the rear sub DB15.
We utilise a UHF link radio (VX-2200 or 4200) to send 5 Tone commands that 
can be addressed via a configurable BCD output that can change the frequency 
and of course pass through the appropriate audio.

Let me know if this is the down the track that you are interested in, and I can 
supply you more info.
_

Gareth Bennett

This e-mail is confidential, if you received this message in error, or you
are not the intended recipient,
please return it to the sender and destroy any copies.
Thank you.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Vincent Caruso 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 6:47 PM
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Radio Tone Control


  Some info can be found on the Midian site in pdf at the following link

  http://www.midians.com/pdf/tone_signaling.pdf

  Telex has some info on their site as well, but most common commercial 
  gear only interfaces to certain radios for multiple channel control 
  otherwise you are limited to one two or four channel remotes.

  Vince

  Kent Chong wrote:
  > Hello,
  >  
  > Would like to control ICOM, and Vertex radio remotelly by using the 
  > tone, for example, change channel, PTT etc. Anybody know the remote 
  > control tone standard? Where could I find the informtion?
  >  
  > Best Regards,
  >  
  > Chong Kwan Meng 
  > 
  > Send instant messages to your online friends 
  > http://asia.messenger.yahoo.com