[Repeater-Builder] Icom Repeater Interface Information

[skipp025]

Icom Repeater Interface Information

I'm trying to help someone interface an older icom 224 MHz 
Repeater to an external controller. Can anyone provide the 
connection information. This is the early version without 
the rear panel din plug... although I do plan to connect a 
1.283 Mhz newer din plug icom repeater to one of the other 
controller ports.  So it's a connection fest with Icom Repeaters 
and I could use the information if you have it avaiable. 

thanks 
skipp 

skipp025 at yahoo.com 

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeater antennas.

[Ron Wright, Skywarn Coodinator]

Dan,

Sounds as if you are looking for 2m/440 dual band antenna.

One question is how high.  If low, less than say 150 ft then might 
consider Ham type antenna.  The G7-144 is good performer for 2 meters, 
but cannot take falling ice.  However, sounds as if some have had 
problems with Hustler although not much to be said for someone looking 
at a site for 12 years and ordering the antenna 3 days before install, 
hi.

If antenna is high then get, as some have suggested, commerical grade.  
In some installs the high price of labor to replace out weights the 
higher cost of a good antenna.

The longer dual band Diamond/Comet do perform well, but are cheaply 
made, but fit your price range.

The stuff on the ground is most often easy to replace.  The stuff in 
the air is often not especailly with good site.

73, ron, n9ee/r



--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Dan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I am looking for opinions on what antenna is good for repeater use 
that 
> are in the $200-250 dollar range. I am looking at the Antennx and the 
> Hustler 270R. Opinoins?
> Thanks  Dan/NØFPE
>

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Distance between RX and TX antenna

[Ron Wright, Skywarn Coodinator]

>From a Decibel Products publication they state for 450 MHz vertical 
spacing of 10 ft 48 db isolation, 20 ft 58 db and 35 ft 70 db.

Sorry no equation, just a chart.

If you can put cavity on transmitter for this is where you need most 
isolation from duplexer, but sounds as if you want on receiver to aid 
in filtering out out-of-bane junk.

73, ron, n9ee/r



--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "arsimgllama" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi All
> On my duplexer The High port seems to be faulty.
> I have an additional antenna so I was thinking to use the LOW port of 
> the duplexer with the existing antenna (because on the same tower a 
TV 
> station is having its TX antennas: output power 250W, Police 
repeaters, 
> Civil emergency repeaters and so) as receive and the other antenna 
> directly on the TX radio as TX antenna.
> The tower is 25 meter high. And on the top of it are the TV antennas 
> installed.
> Is there any formula to calculate the distance between the antennas 
> (vertical and Hor) for proper isolation?
> The antennas are Procom UHF CXL2XXX series
> Operating Freq is RX 443Mhz TX 453 MHz
>

[Repeater-Builder] Combining antennas.

[Fred Flowers]

Has anyone tried to combine DB224E & DB408 on the same mast?  We have one
free space on a nice tower with a good location.  The 2 meter antenna on the
tower needs replacing.  I would like to install a 440 repeater.  I have both
antennas & would like to find a way to get the max use of the location.

If anyone has done this, did you use two feed lines or a combiner to one
feed line?  I'd like to hear anyone's thoughts on this.

Fred N4GER

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Combining antennas.

[Gary Schafer]

I am not sure it included those particular antennas but at one time you
could order a combination VHF/UHF antenna from DB that included two antennas
on the same mast.

 

73

Gary  K4FMX

 

  _  

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Fred Flowers
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 12:27 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Combining antennas.

 



Has anyone tried to combine DB224E & DB408 on the same mast? We have one
free space on a nice tower with a good location. The 2 meter antenna on the
tower needs replacing. I would like to install a 440 repeater. I have both
antennas & would like to find a way to get the max use of the location.

If anyone has done this, did you use two feed lines or a combiner to one
feed line? I'd like to hear anyone's thoughts on this.

Fred N4GER

 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Combining antennas. Additional Question

[bbedoe]

 
In a message dated 2/11/2007 11:30:12 AM Central Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Has  anyone tried to combine DB224E & DB408 on the same mast?  We have  one
free space on a nice tower with a good location.  The 2 meter  antenna on the
tower needs replacing.  I would like to install a 440  repeater.  I have both
antennas & would like to find a way to get  the max use of the location.

If anyone has done this, did you use two  feed lines or a combiner to one
feed line?  I'd like to hear anyone's  thoughts on this.

Fred N4GER



Hi All!
 
In addition to Fred's question is there a problem with stacking these  
antennas one on top the other with the proper support cross arm members at the  
top 
and bottom?
 
Brian, WD9HSY

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Combining antennas.

[va2dq]

Gary
me and some folks at my job that are radio-amateurs are using an fiberglass 
antennas for years,at least 6 years,,
http://www.rfparts.com/diamond/x500hna.html

we are operating 2 systems ,one uhf repeater 
and one vhf repeater  that can be linked with 8 repeaters on differents 
frequencies,,naturally ,(you need a QUALITY DUPLEXER ).
all controled by home made software and hardware controler too.
we shoose vertical 2 bands antenna because of space and cost,,we are 4 in my 
group.
we can tell you that you need good grounds system because fibeglass have 
tendency to accumulate static  and become a big condenser when the weather get 
wet ,,,at leats around here along the St-Laurence River.

We installed at at 6 feet from a tower and a good Heliax cable LDF5.
it suffer high winds and ice and never fail us .

You will always have the performance you pay that is what we learn ,,even if 
you have 250 watts tx with no good antenna you wont go far .


73/s Gary

Gervais,ve2ckn

  - Original Message - 
  From: Gary Schafer 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 12:38 PM
  Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Combining antennas.



  I am not sure it included those particular antennas but at one time you could 
order a combination VHF/UHF antenna from DB that included two antennas on the 
same mast.



  73

  Gary  K4FMX




--

  From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
Fred Flowers
  Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 12:27 PM
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Combining antennas.





  Has anyone tried to combine DB224E & DB408 on the same mast? We have one
  free space on a nice tower with a good location. The 2 meter antenna on the
  tower needs replacing. I would like to install a 440 repeater. I have both
  antennas & would like to find a way to get the max use of the location.

  If anyone has done this, did you use two feed lines or a combiner to one
  feed line? I'd like to hear anyone's thoughts on this.

  Fred N4GER



   

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Advanced Receiver Research Preamp 144-148

[wa5luy]

Thanks to all that replied about the part number of the GaSa transistor.
Wow!
I learned about Chip Angles Porsche 911 preamps, ARR's Cadillac repair 
service,golden screwdrivers, platinum screwdrivers, and all kinds of 
information on tuning up preamps with exotic test stuff we never heard 
of. 

You folks have to understand back here in the hills of western Arkansas 
we save our money for fishin lures, ammo, Red Man, white lightning and 
repairs to the 75 pick up. When we tune up the repeater it's with Bubba 
on his HT in the next valley.

We picked up this preamp at a garage sale for $ .25 and if no body 
knows the part number is we'll just use it for a trotline weight.

73,
wa5luy 

[Repeater-Builder] MSF-5000 external PA

[Bill Photinos]

Has anyone interfaced a PA other than a MSF5000 PA to a MSF5000 CXB?   
What is required?   Will a MSR2000 VHF PA work?  What are the 
connections needed? Where can teh connections be tapped?

Thanks,
   Bill -W4RVN

[Repeater-Builder] FS DB Products DB-4072-A Duplexers

[Shane Autrey KI4M]

I have up for sale a set of DB Products DB-4072A 450-470MHz duplexers
currently tuned to 444.550 TX and 449.550 RX. This is a 6 cavity rack
mounted duplexer that offers excellent isolation and is for use in
systems with 2.75-5 MHZ of separation. Tuning instructions are
available on repeater-builder web site. I bought these and they are
excess to my current needs. Working great when pulled. All RF
connections are via N Female bulk head connectors. I am looking to get
$140 shipped lower 48 states via ups ground. I can accept
paypal/cashiers check/money order. I have bought and sold on batlabs
if you need references. Thanks for interest. Will stand behind for 10
days to purchaser!

Shane KI4M

[Repeater-Builder] [For Sale] Radio Design Labs Voice Operated Switch

[Matt Hohman]

Got a good little project part here.
A radio design labs voice operated switch. It can take line level or  
mice level in. One potentiomator controls sensitivity and the other  
controls release delay 70 to 260ms. I picked this up for a very  
temporary radio <--> computer patch for about $95 about a month ago.  
Send me a personal message if your interested. Willing to part with  
it for around 50 shipped OBO.

Manufactures info:
http://www.rdlnet.com/product.php?page=155

73's
KE7AKX


Matt Hohman
Tech Ministries
New Heights Church
http://www.newheights.org
PH: 360.694.4985 x112
FX: 360.694.0219

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Advanced Receiver Research Preamp 144-148

[cruising7388]

 
In a message dated 2/11/2007 11:14:08 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

You  folks have to understand back here in the hills of western Arkansas 
we  save our money for fishin lures, ammo, Red Man, white lightning and  
repairs to the 75 pick up. When we tune up the repeater it's with Bubba  
on his HT in the next valley.

We picked up this preamp at a garage  sale for $ .25 and if no body 
knows the part number is we'll just use it  for a trotline weight.






I'm mesmerized, indeed paralyzed, by the image of Arkansas hill billys  
eating rainbow trots.

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Advanced Receiver Research Preamp 144-148

[no6b]

At 2/9/2007 13:32, you wrote:

>Has anyone else looked at the input return loss on their ARR preamp?  I had
>one that, when put in place, was throwing off the tuning of a two-cavity
>bandpass filter I had ahead of it.  I swept it and found the return loss to
>only be about 5 dB.  I put an Angle Linear preamp in its place and all was
>well.  That was a few years ago.
>
>Then, last week, a friend brought over his 440 duplexer (Wacom 678) and
>asked me to tune it on the network analyzer as it had been victimized by the
>golden screwdriver.  He had an ARR preamp mounted to the duplexer bracket.
>Once the four cavities were properly tuned, I hooked the preamp back up and
>swept again, providing power to the preamp, terminating the preamp with a
>good 50 ohm terminator, and sweeping at -50 dBm instead of 0.  As I had
>found years ago, the duplexer was severely detuned via the additional of the
>ARR preamp.  A sweep of the preamp alone showed about 6 dB.  Yuck.
>
>I'm starting to wonder if ARR tunes these using a noise figure meter only,
>without regard to input return loss, gain, or anything else?  Bad news if
>you're terminating a cavity filter into one of these preamps.  All of the
>Angle Linears I've tried, on 2, 440, and 900, all had very good input return
>loss, in some cases > 20 dB.

Preamps are usually designed/tuned for lowest possible NF, even at the 
expense of some gain, & in this case, input match.  Another reason why it's 
best to tune everything as a system.

If you really want to isolate the preamp from the duplexer, you need to put 
an isolator ahead of it.

Bob NO6B

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Advanced Receiver Research Preamp 144-148

[Butch Kanvick]

I believe the word is TROUT. LOL.
Best of the luck to you tuning repeaters with Bubba, while you are fishing.
73's.

Butch, KE7FEL/r


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Advanced Receiver Research Preamp 
144-148
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 15:29:00 EST


In a message dated 2/11/2007 11:14:08 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

You  folks have to understand back here in the hills of western Arkansas
we  save our money for fishin lures, ammo, Red Man, white lightning and
repairs to the 75 pick up. When we tune up the repeater it's with Bubba
on his HT in the next valley.

We picked up this preamp at a garage  sale for $ .25 and if no body
knows the part number is we'll just use it  for a trotline weight.






I'm mesmerized, indeed paralyzed, by the image of Arkansas hill billys
eating rainbow trots.

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Advanced Receiver Research Preamp 144-148

[no6b]

At 2/9/2007 15:11, you wrote:
> > <---I swear by my last breath that I will *never* use anything other
> > than Chip's stuff - there is simply *nothing* on the planet that
> > comes close. I've been using his preamps and multicouplers for close
> > to 20 years now and have *never* been disappointed (nor have I ever
> > been disappointed with his service!).
>
>I agree 100%.  I've NEVER had any of Chip's preamps fail.  Ever.  Out of
>probably 50 or more in service, amateur and otherwise.  They just work.

There was one in a system being fed by a community RX system I maintain, & 
it "let loose" big time: around -20 dBm coming back out it's own input 
right near MY input.  The isolation of the RX splitter (~20 to 25 dB), 2 
isolators (60 dB) & a 10 dB pad wasn't enough to keep the self-oscillation 
out of my system.  Granted it was one of his older designs, but I don't 
know what brought this on as no other damage occurred anywhere in the 
system, including the tower-mounted preamp (also one of Chip's).

Bottom line: I agree that Chip Angle GaAsFETs are the best.  I even have 
one installed as a key element in a $300,000 submillimeter-wave test system 
at work.  Like anything else that's man-made, as I found out, they are not 
infallible.

Bob NO6b

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Advanced Receiver Research Preamp 144-148

[Ken Arck]

At 12:53 PM 2/11/2007, you wrote:


Bottom line: I agree that Chip Angle GaAsFETs are the best. I even have
one installed as a key element in a $300,000 submillimeter-wave test system
at work. Like anything else that's man-made, as I found out, they are not
infallible.

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Advanced Receiver Research Preamp 144-148

[no6b]

At 2/10/2007 05:32, you wrote:
>Thanks to all that replied about the part number of the GaSa transistor.
>Wow!
>I learned about Chip Angles Porsche 911 preamps, ARR's Cadillac repair
>service,golden screwdrivers, platinum screwdrivers, and all kinds of
>information on tuning up preamps with exotic test stuff we never heard
>of.
>
>You folks have to understand back here in the hills of western Arkansas
>we save our money for fishin lures, ammo, Red Man, white lightning and
>repairs to the 75 pick up. When we tune up the repeater it's with Bubba
>on his HT in the next valley.
>
>We picked up this preamp at a garage sale for $ .25 and if no body
>knows the part number is we'll just use it for a trotline weight.

I understand: I picked up my last preamp (Janel?) at Yuma last year for 
$1.  Didn't even expect it to work, but it did & is now in service on my 
Running Springs system.  It's easily accessible so not a big deal if it 
breaks into oscillation, but it's been working great for the past 
year.  For my other site that I only get 4 to 6 hours (one service trip 
only) per year, it's Angle Linear or nothing.

Bob

[Repeater-Builder] Trotlines (Was: Advanced Receiver Research Preamp 144-148)

[Eric Lemmon]

My stepdad and I used to run trotlines along the Meramec River near Cuba,
Missouri, back in the 60's.  A trotline is a rope with baited hooks on short
leaders every few feet, that spans a river or stream.  We used them to catch
channel catfish.  Yum!

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
 

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Butch Kanvick
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 12:41 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Advanced Receiver Research Preamp
144-148

I believe the word is TROUT. LOL.
Best of the luck to you tuning repeaters with Bubba, while you are fishing.
73's.

Butch, KE7FEL/r

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
Reply-To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Advanced Receiver Research Preamp 
144-148
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 15:29:00 EST

In a message dated 2/11/2007 11:14:08 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   writes:

You folks have to understand back here in the hills of western Arkansas
we save our money for fishin lures, ammo, Red Man, white lightning and
repairs to the 75 pick up. When we tune up the repeater it's with Bubba
on his HT in the next valley.

We picked up this preamp at a garage sale for $ .25 and if no body
knows the part number is we'll just use it for a trotline weight.

I'm mesmerized, indeed paralyzed, by the image of Arkansas hill billys
eating rainbow trots.



 

[Repeater-Builder] WANTED: Motorola HLN6412A MCS2000 Acc. connector...

[Mike Lyon]

Howdy,

I need a few of the HLN6412A MCS2000 DB25 accessory connectors. OR,
the crimp pins that snap into it. I figured I would ask here before I
call motorola and order some.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thank You,
mike lyon

Re: [Repeater-Builder] WANTED: Motorola HLN6412A MCS2000 Acc. connector...

[Gary]

How many would you like Mike? They list for $22 but I have lots of them
and can cut that way down if you get several.
Gary

Mike Lyon wrote:

> Howdy,
>
> I need a few of the HLN6412A MCS2000 DB25 accessory connectors. OR,
> the crimp pins that snap into it. I figured I would ask here before I
> call motorola and order some.
>
> Any help would be appreciated.
>
> Thank You,
> mike lyon
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Trotlines (Was: Advanced Receiver Research Preamp 144-...

[cruising7388]

 
In a message dated 2/11/2007 2:08:30 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

A  trotline is a rope with baited hooks on short
leaders every few feet, that  spans a river or stream.


Live and learn!  I'm no longer mesmerized/paralyzed. 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] MSF-5000 external PA

[Andrew G.]

I don't know about an MSR2000 PA because of the design of that station. I would 
think that if you gave the MSF station itself the voltages it wants through the 
control cable and had an external PA to take the IPA power, it would work. 
   
  P.S. I'm also interested if anybody has done something like this.
   
  Andy KC2GOW

 
-
Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.
Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Advanced Receiver Research Preamp 144-148

[Jeff DePolo]

> If you really want to isolate the preamp from the duplexer, 
> you need to put 
> an isolator ahead of it.
> 
> Bob NO6B

>From a matching standpoint, yeah, but now the NF goes up due to the added
losses of the isolator.  You might come out ahead by modifying/retuning the
preamp's input network for a better input match even if means sacrificing a
few tenths of a dB of NF.

Ponder this Bob (and anyone else).  Assume the preamp input is connected
directly to the output port of the isolator.  For the sake of argument, say
that the preamp has a NF of 0.5 dB, and 6 dB input return loss.  The power
transfer from isolator output to preamp input would be 75% for 6 dB RL; the
other 25% of reflected power was lost/dissipated in the reject load.
Wouldn't it be mathematically correct to say that there was effectively 1.25
dB of additional loss ahead of the gain stage, and therefore the noise
figure would likewise then be 1.25 dB worse (i.e. 1.75 dB)?  Yes?  No?
Maybe?

If the answer is a yes, couldn't the same argument be made when using a
preamp connected directly to an antenna+feedline as in a weak-signal
installation?  Yeah, I know, the reflected power wouldn't be dissipated the
same way as it would be in the isolator case above, but you would still have
VSWR on the feedline, imperfect power transfer from antenna to feedline, and
imperfect power transfer from feedline to preamp.  So, is it really right to
say a preamp has 0.4 dB of noise figure when it's input Z is so far out of
whack that you could never realize that kind of performance in a 50 ohm
world?  Or are we supposed to tune our antenna feedpoints to match our
preamps?  :-)

--- Jeff

[Repeater-Builder] Need circuit and software to program 74S387, 82S126 and 82S129 Bipolar Proms

[Jim Pruitt]

Please excuse the off topic posting if it is off topic.

I am trying to find a circuit to program 74S387 and 82S129 bipolar proms.  I
have run across several sites that talk about programming the 82S129 prom
for the Motorola Syntor and MCX100 vhf radios.  I have a basket case MCX100
that I need to burn a new prom but I also have a project where I need to
read a 74S387, save the file,  then duplicate the prom.  The only site where
I have found any hardware is on Paul Bennet,  N7OCS sites (
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/5857/progamr.htm  ) but it is
strictly for the 82S129.  Jameco has the 74S387 for about $2.50 each in lots
of 10 where the 82S126 and 82S129 are about $10 each.

I gather that Paul's software will only create the hex file for the Syntor
or MCX radios and not work as a general prom programming software but have
been unable to verify that.  Paul also stated that his programmer did not
work well with fast Windows computers and his software is Dos only.  I have
no issue with using DOS.

I ran across one circuit in a February 1981 issue of Radio Electronics
Magazine but it is for 32x8 proms and is strictly manual with no computer
interface ability.  Can that be expanded to work with 256x4 or 512x4 proms
like the 74S387?

I did quite a bit of Googling but have found nothing helpful.  I almost had
myself talking into buying either the Transtronics Pocket Programmer or the
Andromeda Labs Eprom+ until I realized that both in the $250 to $300 range
require a module for bipolar proms that cost another $150 and if I needed
other abilities (like 68HC or some Pic's or Eproms) then another module was
needed for that and they ranged from $60 to about $200 and that makes a
cheap programmer cost as much as or more than some of the "universal
programmers" that start at about $800 and go up.  In my Googling I ran
across quite a few hits from repeater-builders and similar forums where
commercial 2 way radio users needed to read and program new proms and needed
the same kind of information that I am requesting but I saw no replies that
looked useful (at least none useful to me).  For that reason I am asking
this list if anyone has information for programming proms.  I know that
several people and companies sell adapter boards that use an eprom in place
of the prom but that will not help me with my 74S387 project.  It will help
me with rejuvenating my Motorola MCX100 though.

I have a couple eprom programmers.  One is a Needhams PB10 but it uses an
ISA slot and none of my computers have ISA slots now.  The PB10 (and all
Needham programmers) do not support bipolar proms at all so I am trying to
find other hardware and software that does support bipolar proms and the
different timing requirements of the different proms.

Can anyone point me to a circuit for a bipolar prom programmer that I can
build?  Can anyone point me to software that will work with that programmer?

Thank you.

Jim Pruitt

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Vega Tone remote model C-514B

[Jack Stout]

Thanks to all who repliedI have secured a hard copy of the manual.

Jack
KR9Q

_
Don’t miss your chance to WIN 10 hours of private jet travel from Microsoft 
Office Live http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0540002499mrt/direct/01/





 
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[Repeater-Builder] Receiver Measurements

[Laryn Lohman]

This discussion about preamps and matching is interesting.  

So, what about the return loss of  receivers, you know, the
ones we all know and love like Mastr II, Micor, UHF, VHF.  Has anyone
done measurements on these receivers, and how those measurements might
change with adjustments in helical tuning?  

Laryn K8TVZ

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Advanced Receiver Research Preamp 144-148

[Joe]

At 03:29 PM 2/11/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>I'm mesmerized, indeed paralyzed, by the image of Arkansas hill billys 
>eating rainbow trots.

I've never been fishin for trots, but I've gotten the trots from bad 
fishJoe

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Advanced Receiver Research Preamp 144-148

[no6b]

At 2/11/2007 16:02, you wrote:

> > If you really want to isolate the preamp from the duplexer,
> > you need to put
> > an isolator ahead of it.
> >
> > Bob NO6B
>
> From a matching standpoint, yeah, but now the NF goes up due to the added
>losses of the isolator.  You might come out ahead by modifying/retuning the
>preamp's input network for a better input match even if means sacrificing a
>few tenths of a dB of NF.
>
>Ponder this Bob (and anyone else).  Assume the preamp input is connected
>directly to the output port of the isolator.  For the sake of argument, say
>that the preamp has a NF of 0.5 dB, and 6 dB input return loss.  The power
>transfer from isolator output to preamp input would be 75% for 6 dB RL; the
>other 25% of reflected power was lost/dissipated in the reject load.
>Wouldn't it be mathematically correct to say that there was effectively 1.25
>dB of additional loss ahead of the gain stage, and therefore the noise
>figure would likewise then be 1.25 dB worse (i.e. 1.75 dB)?  Yes?  No?
>Maybe?

No.  The reason is that the noise figure is specified for a 50 ohm input 
feed to the preamp, IOW the noise source used to test the preamp is 50 
ohms, so any power lost due to mismatch at the preamp input is already 
taken into account in the measurement.

Bob NO6B

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Advanced Receiver Research Preamp 144-148

[Ralph Mowery]

--- wa5luy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Thanks to all that replied about the part number of
> the GaSa transistor.
> Wow!
> I learned about Chip Angles Porsche 911 preamps,
> ARR's Cadillac repair 
> service,golden screwdrivers, platinum screwdrivers,
> and all kinds of 
> information on tuning up preamps with exotic test
> stuff we never heard 
> of. 
> 
> You folks have to understand back here in the hills
> of western Arkansas 
> we save our money for fishin lures, ammo, Red Man,
> white lightning and 
> repairs to the 75 pick up. When we tune up the
> repeater it's with Bubba 
> on his HT in the next valley.
> 
> We picked up this preamp at a garage sale for $ .25
> and if no body 
> knows the part number is we'll just use it for a
> trotline weight.
> 
> 73,
> wa5luy 
> 

Guess you get everything but the MGF1302 part number
for the gasafet device that is used in the preamp.




 

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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Receiver Measurements

[no6b]

At 2/11/2007 16:25, you wrote:

>This discussion about preamps and matching is interesting.
>
>So, what about the return loss of  receivers, you know, the
>ones we all know and love like Mastr II, Micor, UHF, VHF.  Has anyone
>done measurements on these receivers, and how those measurements might
>change with adjustments in helical tuning?
>
>Laryn K8TVZ

W.r.t. receivers with relatively high intrinsic noise figures, tuning for 
best match should yield the lowest noise figure since the high NF is 
usually due to lossy filtering ahead of the 1st active device.

Bob NO6B

[Repeater-Builder] Re:Motorola repeaters

[Luke]

Well I after reading all the feedback on which unit to use I think I 
will go with the Micor but now I need som help on doing this or at 
least the specs and diagrams for this, I have yet to find a service 
manual on thes model or anything so please give me all the help you 
all can on this and I will gladly use it to the fullest. Thanks 
again, Luke.

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Doug Dickinson 

<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I vote for doing either - whatever works for you!
> 
> The Micos is a fine radio - no doubt. It is also a
> very old radio. The only way to get parts is to scrap
> an old micor. Just about the same for the SRA series
> syntor. Both have mechanical frontends and can do a
> great job, but the syntors DO require two radios to
> make a repeater. This is not all bat though - you can
> swap the RX and TX radios and get a station back on
> the air on no time with no real radio modification.
> The Micor's require surgery and don't reert easily
> back to mobiles if needed. One good thing - the cables
> and control head for up to a 12 channel micor also
> work directlywith an SRA series syntor. 
> 
> A syntor 9000 is another animal.
>

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re:Motorola repeaters

[Mike Perryman K5JMP]

You should be able to find most anything you need on this website..
http://www.repeater-builder.com/rbtip/
Look in the motorola section for tons of info...

73
Mike
K5JMP
www.k5jmp.us


-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Luke
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 9:24 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re:Motorola repeaters


Well I after reading all the feedback on which unit to use I think I 
will go with the Micor but now I need som help on doing this or at 
least the specs and diagrams for this, I have yet to find a service 
manual on thes model or anything so please give me all the help you 
all can on this and I will gladly use it to the fullest. Thanks 
again, Luke.

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Doug Dickinson 

<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I vote for doing either - whatever works for you!
> 
> The Micos is a fine radio - no doubt. It is also a
> very old radio. The only way to get parts is to scrap
> an old micor. Just about the same for the SRA series
> syntor. Both have mechanical frontends and can do a
> great job, but the syntors DO require two radios to
> make a repeater. This is not all bat though - you can
> swap the RX and TX radios and get a station back on
> the air on no time with no real radio modification.
> The Micor's require surgery and don't reert easily
> back to mobiles if needed. One good thing - the cables
> and control head for up to a 12 channel micor also
> work directlywith an SRA series syntor. 
> 
> A syntor 9000 is another animal.
>






 
Yahoo! Groups Links

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Advanced Receiver Research Preamp 144-148

[Fred Flowers]

Well that ya'll are not as smart as you think you are.  It IS trotline & one
doesn't catch Trout with it.  One catches catfish on a trotline.
Fred N4GER

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Butch Kanvick
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 2:41 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Advanced Receiver Research Preamp
144-148

I believe the word is TROUT. LOL.
Best of the luck to you tuning repeaters with Bubba, while you are fishing.
73's.

Butch, KE7FEL/r


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Advanced Receiver Research Preamp 
144-148
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 15:29:00 EST


In a message dated 2/11/2007 11:14:08 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

You  folks have to understand back here in the hills of western Arkansas
we  save our money for fishin lures, ammo, Red Man, white lightning and
repairs to the 75 pick up. When we tune up the repeater it's with Bubba
on his HT in the next valley.

We picked up this preamp at a garage  sale for $ .25 and if no body
knows the part number is we'll just use it  for a trotline weight.






I'm mesmerized, indeed paralyzed, by the image of Arkansas hill billys
eating rainbow trots.






 
Yahoo! Groups Links

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Advanced Receiver Research Preamp 144-148

[Gary Schafer]

 

 

  _  

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 10:23 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Advanced Receiver Research Preamp 144-148

 

At 2/11/2007 16:02, you wrote:

> > If you really want to isolate the preamp from the duplexer,
> > you need to put
> > an isolator ahead of it.
> >
> > Bob NO6B
>
> From a matching standpoint, yeah, but now the NF goes up due to the added
>losses of the isolator. You might come out ahead by modifying/retuning the
>preamp's input network for a better input match even if means sacrificing a
>few tenths of a dB of NF.
>
>Ponder this Bob (and anyone else). Assume the preamp input is connected
>directly to the output port of the isolator. For the sake of argument, say
>that the preamp has a NF of 0.5 dB, and 6 dB input return loss. The power
>transfer from isolator output to preamp input would be 75% for 6 dB RL; the
>other 25% of reflected power was lost/dissipated in the reject load.
>Wouldn't it be mathematically correct to say that there was effectively
1.25
>dB of additional loss ahead of the gain stage, and therefore the noise
>figure would likewise then be 1.25 dB worse (i.e. 1.75 dB)? Yes? No?
>Maybe?

No. The reason is that the noise figure is specified for a 50 ohm input 
feed to the preamp, IOW the noise source used to test the preamp is 50 
ohms, so any power lost due to mismatch at the preamp input is already 
taken into account in the measurement.

Bob NO6B

True that the noise figure is specified for a 50 ohm input but that is for a
non reactive 50 ohm input. Once you hook it to a cavity or antenna etc. you
no longer have a pure 50 ohm input so the noise figure may not be the same.

 

73

Gary  K4FMX

 

__ 

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Advanced Receiver Research Preamp 144-148

[Gary Schafer]

 

 

  _  

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 10:23 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Advanced Receiver Research Preamp 144-148

 

At 2/11/2007 16:02, you wrote:

> > If you really want to isolate the preamp from the duplexer,
> > you need to put
> > an isolator ahead of it.
> >
> > Bob NO6B
>
> From a matching standpoint, yeah, but now the NF goes up due to the added
>losses of the isolator. You might come out ahead by modifying/retuning the
>preamp's input network for a better input match even if means sacrificing a
>few tenths of a dB of NF.
>
>Ponder this Bob (and anyone else). Assume the preamp input is connected
>directly to the output port of the isolator. For the sake of argument, say
>that the preamp has a NF of 0.5 dB, and 6 dB input return loss. The power
>transfer from isolator output to preamp input would be 75% for 6 dB RL; the
>other 25% of reflected power was lost/dissipated in the reject load.
>Wouldn't it be mathematically correct to say that there was effectively
1.25
>dB of additional loss ahead of the gain stage, and therefore the noise
>figure would likewise then be 1.25 dB worse (i.e. 1.75 dB)? Yes? No?
>Maybe?

No. The reason is that the noise figure is specified for a 50 ohm input 
feed to the preamp, IOW the noise source used to test the preamp is 50 
ohms, so any power lost due to mismatch at the preamp input is already 
taken into account in the measurement.

Bob NO6B

 

True that the noise figure is specified for a 50 ohm input but that is for a
non reactive 50 ohm input. Once you hook it to a cavity or antenna etc. you
no longer have a pure 50 ohm input so the noise figure may not be the same.

 

73

Gary  K4FMX

 

 

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Advanced Receiver Research Preamp 144-148

[Mike Perryman K5JMP]

Fred is right...  it's a trot-line.  A  trout-line is a bunch of pompous
fairys lined-up in hip waders..  LOL!!
Wish I was out running lines instead of readying for an ice storm...

73
Mike
K5JMP
The self-proclaimed redneck from hell
www.k5jmp.us


-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Fred Flowers
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 11:08 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Advanced Receiver Research Preamp
144-148


Well that ya'll are not as smart as you think you are.  It IS trotline & one
doesn't catch Trout with it.  One catches catfish on a trotline.
Fred N4GER

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Butch Kanvick
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 2:41 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Advanced Receiver Research Preamp
144-148

I believe the word is TROUT. LOL.
Best of the luck to you tuning repeaters with Bubba, while you are fishing.
73's.

Butch, KE7FEL/r


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Advanced Receiver Research Preamp
144-148
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 15:29:00 EST


In a message dated 2/11/2007 11:14:08 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

You  folks have to understand back here in the hills of western Arkansas
we  save our money for fishin lures, ammo, Red Man, white lightning and
repairs to the 75 pick up. When we tune up the repeater it's with Bubba
on his HT in the next valley.

We picked up this preamp at a garage  sale for $ .25 and if no body
knows the part number is we'll just use it  for a trotline weight.






I'm mesmerized, indeed paralyzed, by the image of Arkansas hill billys
eating rainbow trots.







Yahoo! Groups Links









Yahoo! Groups Links

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Advanced Receiver Research Preamp 144-148

[Fred Flowers]

Yeah, if I'd proof read my emails, my point would be clearer.  I left out
"shows".

Fred

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Perryman K5JMP
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 10:45 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Advanced Receiver Research Preamp
144-148

Fred is right...  it's a trot-line.  A  trout-line is a bunch of pompous
fairys lined-up in hip waders..  LOL!!
Wish I was out running lines instead of readying for an ice storm...

73
Mike
K5JMP
The self-proclaimed redneck from hell
www.k5jmp.us


-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Fred Flowers
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 11:08 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Advanced Receiver Research Preamp
144-148


Well that ya'll are not as smart as you think you are.  It IS trotline & one
doesn't catch Trout with it.  One catches catfish on a trotline.
Fred N4GER

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Butch Kanvick
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 2:41 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Advanced Receiver Research Preamp
144-148

I believe the word is TROUT. LOL.
Best of the luck to you tuning repeaters with Bubba, while you are fishing.
73's.

Butch, KE7FEL/r


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Advanced Receiver Research Preamp
144-148
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 15:29:00 EST


In a message dated 2/11/2007 11:14:08 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

You  folks have to understand back here in the hills of western Arkansas
we  save our money for fishin lures, ammo, Red Man, white lightning and
repairs to the 75 pick up. When we tune up the repeater it's with Bubba
on his HT in the next valley.

We picked up this preamp at a garage  sale for $ .25 and if no body
knows the part number is we'll just use it  for a trotline weight.






I'm mesmerized, indeed paralyzed, by the image of Arkansas hill billys
eating rainbow trots.







Yahoo! Groups Links









Yahoo! Groups Links









 
Yahoo! Groups Links

[Repeater-Builder] Icom Repeater Repair fun... (parts hunting)

[skipp025]

Well... 

I've got an Icom IC-RP2210 (220MHz) Repeater here with a dead 
receiver.  The PLL is crap and it's not the first time I've heard 
about this problem. Even more no-fun is the NEC PLL and Prescaler 
chips are no longer available. 

Anyone ever find a replacement parts source for the pll uPD2834c 
and pre-scaler uPB571c chips? 

and/or... 
Anyone got a dead Icom Repeater Receiver they want to sell as a 
parts unit? 

What is everyone else doing with these repeaters if we can't get 
the parts to fix them? 

What are the next six lotto numbers for the CA. Lottery? (never mind
this one). 

your turn, 
skipp