RE: [Repeater-Builder] Possible interference on 146.160
I haven't noticed anyone else offer this idea, so I'll jump in here. I often see low level signals all through the 2M band near digital equipment. This is especially true of devices equipped with RS-232 interfaces. The baud rates are often generated by dividing down a higher frequency crystal oscillator signal (4.9152 MHz is a common one) to generate the clock signals at the desired baud rate. These baud clocks are often generated with a lot of energy and are prone to leak out of the equipment. Sure, the significant energy is limited to perhaps a hundred or so harmonics away from the fundamental, but it's interesting to note that in your case, harmonics of 300, 1200, 2400, 4800, 9600, 14400, and 28800 baud (all common baud rates) fall exactly on 146.16 MHz, and harmonics from others fall fairly close. Granted these are very high order harmonics (above 10K), however, with a sensitive receiver, I bet it's possible to be picking up that 10 thousandth or so harmonic of the original baud clock. With the proliferation of digital equipment that contains throw away serial ports and modems, it's not hard to see how you could have thousands of devices within close range, all hammering away at 146.16 MHz. Steve McCarter, KB4OID Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Website: http://www.kb4oid.org Fort Walton Beach, FL, 32547 -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of lpcoates Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 11:02 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Possible interference on 146.160 Hi Our radio club has a portable repeater on 146.760 (-). Each time we install it on a commercial building we find what appears to be interference on or very near the input frequncy of 146.160. This repeater was installed at two private homes for several weeks each and worked flawlessley. Tonight it began to act up after just a few minutes. Another repeater was tried at one of these commercial sites and it also appeared to be receiving interference on 146.160. Tonight I tried a simple test of tuning my hand held to 146.160 and found several hot spots in the room where I picked up something as well as picking up something radiating from the electrical conduit. Both of the commercial sites have elevator equipment, one quite old and one very modern. One site hosts several other radio systems from 400 MHz to 10 GHz and the other site has not other radio equipment. Both buildings are 12 story office buildings. My question is, have other people found that this frequency is especially prone to interference from nearby electrical and electronic equipment? I know that the output frequency of 146.760 can be a problem because it's very close to the 41nd harmonic of the colorburst crystal, but I haven't been able to find any mention of problems on the input frequency of 146.160. Thanks Bruce - VE5BNC Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] Re: FS : Motorola MSR 2000 VHF
Skip, Thanks for that ! Yes, it does have three slots for horizontal modules. They are filled with a PL module and the Intercom module. So I would say it's a full duplex unit. When it was in service it was used with Wireline control. Andrew --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, skipp025 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Might be a big time saver to mention if the base station MSR has the full duplex or half duplex backplane. Simply answered by looking at the module shelf. If there are three openings for horizontal placed modules just above the vertical modules... you have a duplex chassis, which may or may not be wired as said. Relatively easy to change a base to a repeater but it does require a bit of work. cheers, s. Andrew kc2eus@ wrote: 100W Cont Duty Currently on 15x Mhz and configured as a Base Station. Includes Manual on Microfiche :) Due to the weight this is pick up only in Upstate NY. Please direct questions or offers off-list to kc2eus@ Thanks Andrew KC2EUS / GM1YMI
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Possible interference on 146.160
Yep. - Original Message - From: Jay Urish To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 3:10 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Possible interference on 146.160 Do you mean for FiOS? If so, thats not a modem.. It's an OPTICAL NETWORK TERMINAL. Think fancy media converter. David Murman wrote: I have found that the FIBER OPTIC modems that Verizon is installing has many spurious signals in the two meter band. Trying to get Verizon to replace my FIBER OPTIC modem with on that does not cause interference to the two meter band. Just my 2c David wa4ecm - Original Message - *From:* skipp025 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Saturday, November 10, 2007 11:39 AM *Subject:* [Repeater-Builder] Re: Possible interference on 146.160 Hi Ken, ATV activity... both from Amateur Operations and of course the import Wireless Video TV Extenders. Dont' forget the wonderful RF-ID tags. We're starting to get bombed by spread spectrum devices that are very hard to find/locate. In the UHF Band we have the now Famous Pave Paws System... and just to join in the fun we also have the Eplers System. A Repeater Site within a short distance of two large Air Force Bases is a very rough go... s. Ken Arck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I DESPISE the proliferation of all these unlicensed wireless devices cropping up these days (I saw the downward spiral in wireless professionalism starting when the FCC started eliminating 1st, 2nd and 3rd Class RadioTelephone licenses and replacing them with the - IMHO - useless General RadioTelephone ticket). But I digress... After many years of operation with no problems, about 2 weeks ago we started experiencing an intermittent hash type interference on my 434.xxx link receiver at one of my sites. It didn't appear on any other receiver up there - not the 146.320 nor the 446.900 one. When it occurs, it sounds a lot like horizontal sync buzz and usually lasts a few hours or so. Of course the link is toned so the buzz is a problem only as it relates to capturing a valid link signal being received. I went up to the site and luckily it was happening while I was there. According to my handheld, it was fairly weak and was wide - from about 200 kHz below my receive link channel to above it by almost 500 kHz. This seems a bit narrow to be a video signal but I noticed towards the high end of the range, the buzz fades only to be replaced by a quiet carrier. Strange I plan on taking my SA up there next week to see if I can better identify the offending signal but I suspect it's one of those low power, Part 15 434 mHz POS Ken -- Jay Urish W5GM ARRL Life Member Denton County ARRL VEC N5ERS VP/Trustee Monitoring 444.850 PL-88.5
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Possible interference on 146.160
Not that bizarre - There used to be a piece of software for DOS back in the 286/386 days that would play sounds on your AM radio by running loops of instructions specifically designed to cause interference :-) _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of lpcoates Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 9:22 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Possible interference on 146.160 Thanks to everyone who replied. On a related note, I found something at home that probably answered my question. Lately I noticed that there was a weak carrier centered on 144.390. This was causing my APRS IGate to not transmit because it sensed that the channel was busy. It took a long time to find the source which turned out to be my APRS IGate computer. Further investigation showed that it only happened when certain combinations of programs were running. Any other combination of running programs created no interferenc anywhere in the 2m band. Further investigation with a spectrum analyzer confirmed this. I then tried using my frequency counter to get an exact frequency only to find that it generated another half dozen spikes throughout the 2m band. So I think the answer is that just about anything electronic is a potential source of my interference and sometimes the source is so bizarre that you would never suspect it. 73, Bruce
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Possible interference on 146.160
I also had intermittent interference coming from two amateur repeaters. I maintain an ARMY MARS repeater and when repeater a and repeater B were on it produced a signal within 5 khz of the input to the ARMY MARS repeater. Both amateur repeaters were located on top of the same building. The MARS repeater was located some miles away. It took a little looking at a spectrum analyzer to find the two. Repeater A minus repeater B plus repeater A = interference to MARS repeater. David - Original Message - From: Nate Duehr To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 9:34 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Possible interference on 146.160 On Nov 10, 2007, at 4:52 AM, Ron Wright wrote: Bruce, I have a 146.04/64 repeater and for years have noticed weak signals roaming in the bottom part of 146. I had thought it was from cable, but have not been able to verify or locate. A local 146.67 repeater has the most server problem with a weak signal opening its receiver often (it is not toned). 73, ron, n9ee/r Noise is noise, I don't think there's any particular relationship between the part of the band being hit and the noise sources that are typical. I've been struggling to find a weak carrier on the input of our 147.225 (147.825 input) repeater for years... -- Nate Duehr, WY0X [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Repeater-Builder] need program midland 70-052A 10 meter
I have a midland 70-052A 10 meter, I need someone who help me to program my Radio in 10 meter frequencies. This radio has a module Z-273, If yoy have anu information please my email is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks Carlos Padro wp4mjp [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
[Repeater-Builder] Re: VHF Engineering Tx Help Needed
Hello Doug, I had a similar problem with a VHF Engineering Transmitter-PA. Incoming signals would key the repeater but there was no RF output. First you need to find out if the fault is in the TX or the PA. The output of the TX alone should be 1-1.5W. If that's ok, then you should focus on finding a problem in the PA. If I remember correctly the way I tested it was by connecting a power meter to the output of the TX to see if the output power was ok. I got 1-1.5W as expected so the next step was connect a 1W input signal taken from a handheld radio to the input of the PA. The output was almost zero. In my case the fault was with the final transistor (2N 6081). After replacing it the output was around 3-4W but after following the tuning procedure described in the manual it went up to 15W. You might want to do this first, just in case the low output is due to a misalignment problem. Now if the problem is with the TX module... I would check if the transistors are ok... You can get all the manuals from the Repeater builder website as pointed out by Eric. Hope this helps. 73, Andreas - 5B8AP --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Eric Lemmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Doug, The Repeater-Builder site has good info on VHF Engineering equipment. Here is the PA manual: www.repeater-builder.com/vhfe/vhfe-pa-144-220-450.pdf 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of dadavies3 Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 2:24 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] VHF Engineering Tx Help Needed I have an old VHF Engineering 144 MHz. repeater transmitter that has very low output. I would like to find someone that has experience with one of these that can help me trouble shoot it. Any help is appreciated. Doug VE7DRF
[Repeater-Builder] Info needed Motorola single ended 8560 RF deck
I have been given a Motorola RF deck and am trying to get some info for it, at least a schematic. The assembly is a TLD6392A-2 running a single 8560. The power supply (a real beast) has two different numbers stenciled on the back of the panel, TLN5049A and TPN1104A. I believe this is probably part of a Motrac base or repeater and has a 1967 date. I'm told this may have been part of a B93MPB or MPY station. Any assistance would be much appreciated and I would be more than happy to reimburse copy costs, etc. Thanks Allen, W9DZ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Tait 220 Repeaters
The not available response was from Tait North America in Markham Ontario Canada. Roger Mike Morris WA6ILQ wrote: At 09:36 AM 11/09/07, you wrote: Our group is looking for some good quality 220 repeaters. After contacting the Tait dealer in Canada, I was advised that the 220 repeaters were not available in Canada. Does anyone know of a Tait dealer in the US where I may make inquiries. Thanks in advance. Roger VA7RS Forget the dealer - contact Tait directly. From the Tait web page at www.repeater-builder.com Tait North America Inc. 158 Anderson Avenue, Unit 5 Markham, Ontario, L6E1A9, Canada 905-472-5300 Parent company: Tait Electronics Limited PO Box 1645, Christchurch, New Zealand No phone number for New Zealand, apparently. Yahoo! Groups Links -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.26/1120 - Release Date: 11/9/2007 9:26 AM
[Repeater-Builder] Re: VHF Engineering Tx Help Needed
Hello Doug, I had a similar problem with a VHF Engineering Transmitter-PA. Incoming signals would key the repeater but there was no RF output. First you need to find out if the fault is in the TX or the PA. The output of the TX alone should be 1-1.5W. If that's ok, then you should focus on finding a problem in the PA. If I remember correctly the way I tested it was by connecting a power meter to the output of the TX to see if the output power was ok. I got 1-1.5W as expected so the next step was connect a 1W input signal taken from a handheld radio to the input of the PA. The output was almost zero. In my case the fault was with the final transistor (2N 6081). After replacing it the output was around 3-4W but after following the tuning procedure described in the manual it went up to 15W. You might want to do this first, just in case the low output is due to a misalignment problem. Now if the problem is with the TX module... I would check if the transistors are ok... You can get all the manuals from the Repeater builder website as pointed out by Eric. Hope this helps. 73, Andreas - 5B8AP Doug, The Repeater-Builder site has good info on VHF Engineering equipment. Here is the PA manual: www.repeater-builder.com/vhfe/vhfe-pa-144-220-450.pdf 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of dadavies3 Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 2:24 PM To: mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] VHF Engineering Tx Help Needed I have an old VHF Engineering 144 MHz. repeater transmitter that has very low output. I would like to find someone that has experience with one of these that can help me trouble shoot it. Any help is appreciated. Doug VE7DRF No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.27/1121 - Release Date: 9/11/2007 7:29 ìì
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: MSR 2000 UHF band split low band?
Thanks, Living in BC here, we see quite a few Low Band UHF repeaters. RCMP, Forestry, Highways, to name a few, used low band UHF as link frequencies, so when a hub repeater went up it was low band. These have come out of service now, because of narrow banding, and its just a matter if figuring out if they'll work in the ham band. Thanks, Jesse On 11/10/07, skipp025 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Jesse, Working from a memory polluted by a few bad choices back in the late 70's... There should be three most common range of the UHF MSR-2000. The low UHF Range was about 409 to 430 MHz, the formal band edges escape me. The mid UHF range operation is 450 to about 490 typical. The T-Band Range operation was about 483 to 512 MHz. There are a number of differences in the PA by band segment and by version number. The TLE- B versions were much better than the TLE- A versions. The harmonic filter was revised so it doesn't unsolder itself at the high current points and cause the PA to poop (fail). Both the ceramic substrates and the transistor modules change by band segment as does the harmonic filter. The 450-490 range PA is pretty good almost to 495 MHz in many examples the 483-512 PA is not happy about going very far below the normal band edge. I have seen and used examples that operated well above their specified range but few work well below their band edge without reduced power, getting really hot or some other issue. Most of the low range UHF MSR units were made for places like Canada and special aps. Those binder manuals have the part numbers for those PA's as-built. And to add to the mix... many of those PA's are the low power ~40 watt packages. Trying to find the 110 watt low range UHF PA is right up there with hens teeth. cheers, skipp Jesse Lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey all, Was there ever a MSR 2000 built that covered the low UHF split 410ish to 440ish? I know of the 450-470, 470-494, 494-512 splits, but is there another low band one? If so does anyone know the receiver part and PA part numbers for it? Thanks, Jesse
[Repeater-Builder] [Fwd: Tait reply to TB 7100 TM8000 radios in 200 MHz for Canada]
Here's the response from Tait Radio Roger ---BeginMessage--- Dear Roger Stacey, Sorry, at this time, the Tait TB7100 Base Repeaters and TM8000 mobiles in the 200 MHz range are not available in Canada or Industry Canada Approved. However, if the demand is there, we will look into it. If you have time, please give a call at 416-988-4989. Thanks, Daisy M. Del Vecchio (Fisher) Regional Sales Manager Tait Radio Communications 158 Anderson Avenue, Unit # 5 Markham, Ontario, L6E 1A9, Canada Direct Line: 416-988-4989 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Paul Middleton Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 11:54 AM To: Daisy Fisher Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: FW: TB 7100 -Original Message- From: Roger Stacey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 1:49 PM To: Info Subject: TB 7100 Dear Sir / Madam, We are a group of Amateur Radio folks who operate a linked analogue VHF/UHF repeater system on Vancouver Island BC. We currently have 16 repeaters on our system. Most of our linking is done on our 222-225 Mhz amateur band. We have recently upgraded our VHF and UHF equipment to commercial quality (Daniels MT3). Our challenge is finding quality equipment for the 220 Mhz band. Our future requirements would possibly include TB7100 analogue repeater on a f of 224.62TX and 223.02Rx and the same f reversed on simplex. 5Khz deviation. Would appreciate any help Tait would be able to suggest and a ball park price for the TB7100 repeater and the TM800 mobile radio. Thanks in advance Roger Stacey VA7RS www.islandtrunksystem.org This email, including any attachments, is only for the intended addressee. It is subject to copyright, confidential and may be the subject of legal or other privilege, none of which is waived or lost by reason of this transmission. If the receiver is not the intended addressee, please accept our apologies, notify us by return, delete all copies and perform no other act on the email. Unfortunately, we cannot warrant that the email has not been altered or corrupted during transmission. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.26/1120 - Release Date: 11/9/2007 9:26 AM ---End Message---
Re: [Repeater-Builder] [Fwd: Tait reply to TB 7100 TM8000 radios in 200 MHz for Canada]
Roger Stacey wrote: Here's the response from Tait Radio My bet is that the person who is responding to you is still thinking commercial applications. Probably doesn't even know what a ham is. If you haven't done so, I would call them, and try to explain to them that it is not going in the commercial bands, and therefore is not subject to the same type acceptance issues of commercial radio. Just my 2 cents worth. Mike KA4MKG
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem
I don't have my Dallas Semi book handy, but if I remember correctly the 10 years spec was 10 unpowered years - if the Smartwatch was in a device that was powered up the battery was not being drained. But you still had to factor in the shelf life of the internal coin cell. At 03:44 AM 11/10/07, you wrote: Eric, As Kevin said if your 96 has one of the Dallas Smartwatch the battery in some of them had a life of 10 years. It was basically the shelf life of the battery. Most of the Smartwatch's I've seen used a RAM as the memory rather than a EPROM. The battery maintained the memory when power was lost. The battery could power and maintain memory for the life of the battery which again was spec'd for 10 years although most often lasted 12-14 years. Kinda gets into the area of some rigs having their OS in battery backed RAM. The Smartwatch was made by Dallas Semiconductor. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Kevin Berlen, K9HX [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2007/11/10 Sat AM 02:42:39 CST To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem What version of software is in your controller? With rev 5 of thesoftware, a Dallas Smartwatch was added to the RC-96 to provide a real-time clock. As Irecall, the smartwatch occupied one of the eprom sockets, and the affected eprom wasplugged into a socket on top of the device. If yours has the smartwatch, it maybe the culprit. 73. Kevin, K9HX At 10:10 PM 11/9/2007, you wrote: One of the repeaters I maintainhas been working perfectly for almost a year since its last checkup. It is a 6m repeater that has a link toseveral other 6m repeaters, and is controlled by an ACC RC-96 controller. Itis powered from a very large commercial UPS that ensures no-breakpower. One evening, the controller went berserk, for no apparent reason. It started transmitting a string of Morse characters on both the primaryand secondary ports: dit dah dit ... dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dahdah dah ... for about two minutes. It would then be quiet on both ports forabout 30 seconds, and would then repeat. During the brief silent periods,the repeater would operate as a repeater, but the Morse string muted anyother audio, once it began. The controller would not respond to my DTMFcommands on either the primary or secondary ports. To make matters worse, the telephone line that gives me backup control to knock down the repeaterwas dead at the hilltop end! I had to make a hasty trip to the mountaintopsite to take the beast off the air. As a result of this experience, I am adding a dedicated UHF control linkto give me positive control of the repeater. Has anyone else had a similar problem with the RC-96 controller? Notethat there is no lithium or similar memory battery inside the box that mightgo bad. Oddball malfunctions like this can add more gray hairs than Iwant! Any ideas, case histories, or suggestions will be appreciated. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.26/1119 - Release Date:11/8/2007 5:55 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.27/1121 - Release Date: 11/9/2007 7:29 PM Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome. Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] Dallas Semiconductor Real-Time Clock (Was RC-96 Controller Problem)
Mike and others, The Dallas Semiconductor Nonvolatile Timekeeping RAM found in many popular controllers, including the Link RLC-1 Plus, is Part Number DS1643-150. The 11-page datasheet can be downloaded here: www.datasheetarchive.com/pdf/1235806.pdf Notice that the -150 indicates 150 ns access time. The replacement device offered by Dallas/Maxim has either 70 ns or 100 ns access time, and I have no idea if the newer device will work properly where a 150 ns device was used. On page 5 of the datasheet is a paragraph entitled Internal Battery Longevity which states that the device can operate for 10 years in the absence of VCC power. When powered as it would normally be in a typical application, the note states that the lifetime can be as long as 20 years. The battery is not accessible for replacement. I see that the guaranteed accuracy of the DS1643 clock is within +/- 1 minute per month, and there is no capability to tweak the crystal to get better accuracy. One of the Hams in my area is experimenting with a scheme to use a so-called atomic clock to jam-set the correct time once per day. With regular synchronism to WWVB, the time announcements will normally be no more than a second off. Once he gets this idea working, perhaps I can get him to write an article about it. I and many other time-and-frequency geeks think that time announcements should be correct. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Morris WA6ILQ Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 12:29 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem I don't have my Dallas Semi book handy, but if I remember correctly the 10 years spec was 10 unpowered years - if the Smartwatch was in a device that was powered up the battery was not being drained. But you still had to factor in the shelf life of the internal coin cell. At 03:44 AM 11/10/07, you wrote: Eric, As Kevin said if your 96 has one of the Dallas Smartwatch the battery in some of them had a life of 10 years. It was basically the shelf life of the battery. Most of the Smartwatch's I've seen used a RAM as the memory rather than a EPROM. The battery maintained the memory when power was lost. The battery could power and maintain memory for the life of the battery which again was spec'd for 10 years although most often lasted 12-14 years. Kinda gets into the area of some rigs having their OS in battery backed RAM. The Smartwatch was made by Dallas Semiconductor. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Kevin Berlen, K9HX [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:k9hx%40arrl.net Date: 2007/11/10 Sat AM 02:42:39 CST To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem What version of software is in your controller? With rev 5 of thesoftware, a Dallas Smartwatch was added to the RC-96 to provide a real-time clock. As Irecall, the smartwatch occupied one of the eprom sockets, and the affected eprom wasplugged into a socket on top of the device. If yours has the smartwatch, it maybe the culprit. 73. Kevin, K9HX At 10:10 PM 11/9/2007, you wrote: One of the repeaters I maintainhas been working perfectly for almost a year since its last checkup. It is a 6m repeater that has a link toseveral other 6m repeaters, and is controlled by an ACC RC-96 controller. Itis powered from a very large commercial UPS that ensures no-breakpower. One evening, the controller went berserk, for no apparent reason. It started transmitting a string of Morse characters on both the primaryand secondary ports: dit dah dit ... dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dahdah dah ... for about two minutes. It would then be quiet on both ports forabout 30 seconds, and would then repeat. During the brief silent periods,the repeater would operate as a repeater, but the Morse string muted anyother audio, once it began. The controller would not respond to my DTMFcommands on either the primary or secondary ports. To make matters worse, the telephone line that gives me backup control to knock down the repeaterwas dead at the hilltop end! I had to make a hasty trip to the mountaintopsite to take the beast off the air. As a result of this experience, I am adding a dedicated UHF control linkto give me positive control of the repeater. Has anyone else had a similar problem with the RC-96 controller? Notethat there is no lithium or similar memory battery inside the box that mightgo bad. Oddball malfunctions like this can add more gray hairs than Iwant! Any ideas, case histories, or suggestions will be appreciated. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.26/1119 - Release Date:11/8/2007 5:55 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version:
Re: [Repeater-Builder] [Fwd: Tait reply to TB 7100 TM8000 radios in 200 MHz for Canada] Contact Details. New Zealand Head Office
Hi, I don't have too much to do with any of the Tait offices outside NZ, but having only dealt with the head office here in Christchurch NZ I have received excellent help with the Tait repeater modules our repeater group uses. I include their phone number if you wish to contact them. The free number is (country code 64) 0800 662 453, or 03-358-3399. You can then go through to the Tech Help department. Hope this is of help. Kevin, ZL1KFM. Get Skype and call me for free. sparc_nz Description: Binary data
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Possible interference on 146.160
On Nov 11, 2007, at 8:34 AM, David Murman wrote: I also had intermittent interference coming from two amateur repeaters. I maintain an ARMY MARS repeater and when repeater a and repeater B were on it produced a signal within 5 khz of the input to the ARMY MARS repeater. Both amateur repeaters were located on top of the same building. The MARS repeater was located some miles away. It took a little looking at a spectrum analyzer to find the two. Repeater A minus repeater B plus repeater A = interference to MARS repeater. That math works out on any three repeaters with the same offset. Doesn't matter if they're Amateur, MARS, commercial... 5 MHz split on all three, means there's an opportunity to mix from two transmitters plus one input, to another input. What would be more interesting is what you did to mitigate it. Was the mix happening externally or in one of the systems? Someone forget to install an isolator? Little to no filtering on a high-level pre-amp on the MARS repeater? What was it? -- Nate Duehr, WY0X [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Possible interference on 146.160
The fix was repeater A to replace a notch filter they had on the repeater to notch out repeater B. David - Original Message - From: Nate Duehr To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 3:40 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Possible interference on 146.160 On Nov 11, 2007, at 8:34 AM, David Murman wrote: I also had intermittent interference coming from two amateur repeaters. I maintain an ARMY MARS repeater and when repeater a and repeater B were on it produced a signal within 5 khz of the input to the ARMY MARS repeater. Both amateur repeaters were located on top of the same building. The MARS repeater was located some miles away. It took a little looking at a spectrum analyzer to find the two. Repeater A minus repeater B plus repeater A = interference to MARS repeater. That math works out on any three repeaters with the same offset. Doesn't matter if they're Amateur, MARS, commercial... 5 MHz split on all three, means there's an opportunity to mix from two transmitters plus one input, to another input. What would be more interesting is what you did to mitigate it. Was the mix happening externally or in one of the systems? Someone forget to install an isolator? Little to no filtering on a high-level pre-amp on the MARS repeater? What was it? -- Nate Duehr, WY0X [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Dallas Semiconductor Real-Time Clock (Was RC-96 Controlle
A 70 or 100 ns device is faster than the 150 ns. This is the access time min required to read/write to it. So if writing say at 500 ns still the 70-100 ns devices will still work. The device will now also work with faster computers. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Eric Lemmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2007/11/11 Sun PM 03:27:08 CST To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Dallas Semiconductor Real-Time Clock (Was RC-96 Controller Problem) Mike and others, The Dallas Semiconductor Nonvolatile Timekeeping RAM found in many popular controllers, including the Link RLC-1 Plus, is Part Number DS1643-150. The 11-page datasheet can be downloaded here: www.datasheetarchive.com/pdf/1235806.pdf Notice that the -150 indicates 150 ns access time. The replacement device offered by Dallas/Maxim has either 70 ns or 100 ns access time, and I have no idea if the newer device will work properly where a 150 ns device was used. On page 5 of the datasheet is a paragraph entitled Internal Battery Longevity which states that the device can operate for 10 years in the absence of VCC power. When powered as it would normally be in a typical application, the note states that the lifetime can be as long as 20 years. The battery is not accessible for replacement. I see that the guaranteed accuracy of the DS1643 clock is within +/- 1 minute per month, and there is no capability to tweak the crystal to get better accuracy. One of the Hams in my area is experimenting with a scheme to use a so-called atomic clock to jam-set the correct time once per day. With regular synchronism to WWVB, the time announcements will normally be no more than a second off. Once he gets this idea working, perhaps I can get him to write an article about it. I and many other time-and-frequency geeks think that time announcements should be correct. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Morris WA6ILQ Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 12:29 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem I don't have my Dallas Semi book handy, but if I remember correctly the 10 years spec was 10 unpowered years - if the Smartwatch was in a device that was powered up the battery was not being drained. But you still had to factor in the shelf life of the internal coin cell. At 03:44 AM 11/10/07, you wrote: Eric, As Kevin said if your 96 has one of the Dallas Smartwatch the battery in some of them had a life of 10 years. It was basically the shelf life of the battery. Most of the Smartwatch's I've seen used a RAM as the memory rather than a EPROM. The battery maintained the memory when power was lost. The battery could power and maintain memory for the life of the battery which again was spec'd for 10 years although most often lasted 12-14 years. Kinda gets into the area of some rigs having their OS in battery backed RAM. The Smartwatch was made by Dallas Semiconductor. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Kevin Berlen, K9HX [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:k9hx%40arrl.net Date: 2007/11/10 Sat AM 02:42:39 CST To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem What version of software is in your controller? With rev 5 of thesoftware, a Dallas Smartwatch was added to the RC-96 to provide a real-time clock. As Irecall, the smartwatch occupied one of the eprom sockets, and the affected eprom wasplugged into a socket on top of the device. If yours has the smartwatch, it maybe the culprit. 73. Kevin, K9HX At 10:10 PM 11/9/2007, you wrote: One of the repeaters I maintainhas been working perfectly for almost a year since its last checkup. It is a 6m repeater that has a link toseveral other 6m repeaters, and is controlled by an ACC RC-96 controller. Itis powered from a very large commercial UPS that ensures no-breakpower. One evening, the controller went berserk, for no apparent reason. It started transmitting a string of Morse characters on both the primaryand secondary ports: dit dah dit ... dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dahdah dah ... for about two minutes. It would then be quiet on both ports forabout 30 seconds, and would then repeat. During the brief silent periods,the repeater would operate as a repeater, but the Morse string muted anyother audio, once it began. The controller would not respond to my DTMFcommands on either the primary or secondary ports. To make matters worse, the telephone line that gives me backup control to knock down the repeaterwas dead at the hilltop end! I had to make a hasty trip to the mountaintopsite to take the beast off the air. As a result of this experience, I am adding a dedicated UHF control linkto give me positive control of the repeater. Has anyone else had a similar problem with the RC-96 controller? Notethat there is no
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Possible interference on 146.160
On Nov 11, 2007, at 2:48 PM, David Murman wrote: The fix was repeater A to replace a notch filter they had on the repeater to notch out repeater B. That's interesting. On their receiver? Miles away from your machine? Pretty good mix to be strong enough to be seen miles away. Wonder what was doing it in their system? -- Nate Duehr, WY0X [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Dallas Semiconductor Real-Time Clock (Was RC-96 Controller Problem)
At 01:27 PM 11/11/2007, you wrote: One of the Hams in my area is experimenting with a scheme to use a so-called atomic clock to jam-set the correct time once per day. With regular synchronism to WWVB, the time announcements will normally be no more than a second off. Once he gets this idea working, perhaps I can get him to write an article about it. I and many other time-and-frequency geeks think that time announcements should be correct. If one runs an IRLP node, there is a really simple way to set the clock of your controller every X hours to insure accuracy. I have posted the scripts needed to do this (quite simple to implement) in the files section of our yahoogroups mailing list (I probably should post them to our website as well). Running NTP on your IRLP node insures great accuracy. Alternately, we will be adding support to our products to use NEMA data from a cheap GPS for clock accuracy in the near future as well. Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Dallas Semiconductor Real-Time Clock
Hi Eric, The Dallas Semiconductor Nonvolatile Timekeeping RAM found in many popular controllers, including the Link RLC-1 Plus, is Part Number DS1643-150. We have a lot of experience with the DS1643 and its bigger brother, the DS1644. The S-COM 5K uses the DS1643 (8K RAM), and the 6K and 7K use the DS1644 (32K RAM). A second source for the DS1643 is the STMicro M48T18-100PC1. For the DS1644, a second source is the STMicro M48T35Y-70PC1. Notice that the -150 indicates 150 ns access time. The replacement device offered by Dallas/Maxim has either 70 ns or 100 ns access time, and I have no idea if the newer device will work properly where a 150 ns device was used. As a rule, a faster memory is okay. Slower isn't. I see that the guaranteed accuracy of the DS1643 clock is within +/- 1 minute per month, and there is no capability to tweak the crystal to get better accuracy. That's right. We've been using these parts for many years and the reports from the field range from excellent to mediocre timekeeping. The controllers have clock tweak commands that add or subtract seconds and can be called from the scheduler program. If one knows how many seconds the clock is gaining or losing in a day, then automatically resetting the clock daily (or more often) makes for a pretty accurate clock. Dallas/Maxim now has a series of timekeeping ICs and temperature compensated crystal oscillators. We're using the DS32KHZ TCXO in the new 7330 with good results, so perhaps the temperature at the repeater site has a lot to do with the accuracy of the controller's clock and calendar. 73, Bob Bob Schmid, WA9FBO, Member S-COM, LLC PO Box 1546 LaPorte CO 80535-1546 970-416-6505 voice 970-419-3222 fax www.scomcontrollers.com ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
RE: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem
The shelf life is typically ten years. Richard http://www.n7tgb.net/ www.n7tgb.net _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Morris WA6ILQ Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 12:29 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem I don't have my Dallas Semi book handy, but if I remember correctly the 10 years spec was 10 unpowered years - if the Smartwatch was in a device that was powered up the battery was not being drained. But you still had to factor in the shelf life of the internal coin cell. At 03:44 AM 11/10/07, you wrote: Eric, As Kevin said if your 96 has one of the Dallas Smartwatch the battery in some of them had a life of 10 years. It was basically the shelf life of the battery. Most of the Smartwatch's I've seen used a RAM as the memory rather than a EPROM. The battery maintained the memory when power was lost. The battery could power and maintain memory for the life of the battery which again was spec'd for 10 years although most often lasted 12-14 years. Kinda gets into the area of some rigs having their OS in battery backed RAM. The Smartwatch was made by Dallas Semiconductor. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Kevin Berlen, K9HX [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:k9hx%40arrl.net Date: 2007/11/10 Sat AM 02:42:39 CST To: Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem What version of software is in your controller? With rev 5 of thesoftware, a Dallas Smartwatch was added to the RC-96 to provide a real-time clock. As Irecall, the smartwatch occupied one of the eprom sockets, and the affected eprom wasplugged into a socket on top of the device. If yours has the smartwatch, it maybe the culprit. 73. Kevin, K9HX At 10:10 PM 11/9/2007, you wrote: One of the repeaters I maintainhas been working perfectly for almost a year since its last checkup. It is a 6m repeater that has a link toseveral other 6m repeaters, and is controlled by an ACC RC-96 controller. Itis powered from a very large commercial UPS that ensures no-breakpower. One evening, the controller went berserk, for no apparent reason. It started transmitting a string of Morse characters on both the primaryand secondary ports: dit dah dit ... dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dahdah dah ... for about two minutes. It would then be quiet on both ports forabout 30 seconds, and would then repeat. During the brief silent periods,the repeater would operate as a repeater, but the Morse string muted anyother audio, once it began. The controller would not respond to my DTMFcommands on either the primary or secondary ports. To make matters worse, the telephone line that gives me backup control to knock down the repeaterwas dead at the hilltop end! I had to make a hasty trip to the mountaintopsite to take the beast off the air. As a result of this experience, I am adding a dedicated UHF control linkto give me positive control of the repeater. Has anyone else had a similar problem with the RC-96 controller? Notethat there is no lithium or similar memory battery inside the box that mightgo bad. Oddball malfunctions like this can add more gray hairs than Iwant! Any ideas, case histories, or suggestions will be appreciated. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.26/1119 - Release Date:11/8/2007 5:55 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.27/1121 - Release Date: 11/9/2007 7:29 PM Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome. Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Dallas Semiconductor Real-Time Clock
Bob, Thanks for the response. Since the CPU that queries the clock chip is part of the controller, I wasn't sure that the shorter access time of the newer chips would make a difference or not. Now, about time correction- I am looking at making this as simple as possible. I don't have an IRLP node at the site, so using any kind of network connection is not an option. Requiring a computer to be running at the controller location is not an option. I also don't want to play around with adding or subtracting seconds to get the clock close- that's too much human involvement. I don't want to be tasked with manually changing the time when Daylight Saving Time starts or stops. Since the WWVB time broadcasts automatically adjust for DST, any method of synchronizing a controller at a remote site to WWVB seems to be the best way to go. Here's one possible solution, offered by a friend of mine: Obtain a simple and relatively inexpensive atomic digital clock that has an alarm function. Tap into the alarm beeper circuitry so that a logic level is detected when the alarm goes off. Set the alarm so that it triggers at, say, 0400 hours local time every morning. Install a macro in the controller that, when triggered, will reset the controller's clock to 04:00:00. Voila! Every day, courtesy of the NIST, my controller is always on time. If the DS1643 clock chip is at one extreme of its accuracy tolerance, say two seconds per day, the error could be minimized by jam-setting 03:59:59 or 04:00:01, if needed, to keep the clock within one second of exact. Since the execution of a macro takes time, the jam-set time needs to be offset to compensate for the delay. Perhaps the next generation of repeater controllers will have WWVB or GPS time synchronization built in? (hint hint) 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 2:33 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Dallas Semiconductor Real-Time Clock Hi Eric, The Dallas Semiconductor Nonvolatile Timekeeping RAM found in many popular controllers, including the Link RLC-1 Plus, is Part Number DS1643-150. We have a lot of experience with the DS1643 and its bigger brother, the DS1644. The S-COM 5K uses the DS1643 (8K RAM), and the 6K and 7K use the DS1644 (32K RAM). A second source for the DS1643 is the STMicro M48T18-100PC1. For the DS1644, a second source is the STMicro M48T35Y-70PC1. Notice that the -150 indicates 150 ns access time. The replacement device offered by Dallas/Maxim has either 70 ns or 100 ns access time, and I have no idea if the newer device will work properly where a 150 ns device was used. As a rule, a faster memory is okay. Slower isn't. I see that the guaranteed accuracy of the DS1643 clock is within +/- 1 minute per month, and there is no capability to tweak the crystal to get better accuracy. That's right. We've been using these parts for many years and the reports from the field range from excellent to mediocre timekeeping. The controllers have clock tweak commands that add or subtract seconds and can be called from the scheduler program. If one knows how many seconds the clock is gaining or losing in a day, then automatically resetting the clock daily (or more often) makes for a pretty accurate clock. Dallas/Maxim now has a series of timekeeping ICs and temperature compensated crystal oscillators. We're using the DS32KHZ TCXO in the new 7330 with good results, so perhaps the temperature at the repeater site has a lot to do with the accuracy of the controller's clock and calendar. 73, Bob Bob Schmid, WA9FBO, Member S-COM, LLC PO Box 1546 LaPorte CO 80535-1546 970-416-6505 voice 970-419-3222 fax www.scomcontrollers.com
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem
The RC-96 should function with out the clock, just with out time anouncements. On 11/11/07, Richard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The shelf life is typically ten years. *Richard* *www.n7tgb.net* http://www.n7tgb.net/ -- *From:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Mike Morris WA6ILQ *Sent:* Sunday, November 11, 2007 12:29 PM *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem I don't have my Dallas Semi book handy, but if I remember correctly the 10 years spec was 10 unpowered years - if the Smartwatch was in a device that was powered up the battery was not being drained. But you still had to factor in the shelf life of the internal coin cell. At 03:44 AM 11/10/07, you wrote: Eric, As Kevin said if your 96 has one of the Dallas Smartwatch the battery in some of them had a life of 10 years. It was basically the shelf life of the battery. Most of the Smartwatch's I've seen used a RAM as the memory rather than a EPROM. The battery maintained the memory when power was lost. The battery could power and maintain memory for the life of the battery which again was spec'd for 10 years although most often lasted 12-14 years. Kinda gets into the area of some rigs having their OS in battery backed RAM. The Smartwatch was made by Dallas Semiconductor. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Kevin Berlen, K9HX [EMAIL PROTECTED] k9hx%40arrl.net Date: 2007/11/10 Sat AM 02:42:39 CST To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem What version of software is in your controller? With rev 5 of thesoftware, a Dallas Smartwatch was added to the RC-96 to provide a real-time clock. As Irecall, the smartwatch occupied one of the eprom sockets, and the affected eprom wasplugged into a socket on top of the device. If yours has the smartwatch, it maybe the culprit. 73. Kevin, K9HX At 10:10 PM 11/9/2007, you wrote: One of the repeaters I maintainhas been working perfectly for almost a year since its last checkup. It is a 6m repeater that has a link toseveral other 6m repeaters, and is controlled by an ACC RC-96 controller. Itis powered from a very large commercial UPS that ensures no-breakpower. One evening, the controller went berserk, for no apparent reason. It started transmitting a string of Morse characters on both the primaryand secondary ports: dit dah dit ... dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dahdah dah ... for about two minutes. It would then be quiet on both ports forabout 30 seconds, and would then repeat. During the brief silent periods,the repeater would operate as a repeater, but the Morse string muted anyother audio, once it began. The controller would not respond to my DTMFcommands on either the primary or secondary ports. To make matters worse, the telephone line that gives me backup control to knock down the repeaterwas dead at the hilltop end! I had to make a hasty trip to the mountaintopsite to take the beast off the air. As a result of this experience, I am adding a dedicated UHF control linkto give me positive control of the repeater. Has anyone else had a similar problem with the RC-96 controller? Notethat there is no lithium or similar memory battery inside the box that mightgo bad. Oddball malfunctions like this can add more gray hairs than Iwant! Any ideas, case histories, or suggestions will be appreciated. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.26/1119 - Release Date:11/8/2007 5:55 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.27/1121 - Release Date: 11/9/2007 7:29 PM Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome. Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] Need 7K autopatch
Looking for a 7K autopatch board. Will buy or have lots of stuff to trade. Thanks. --- Jeff WN3A
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Possible interference on 146.160
Not really sure but when they changed the notch filter the spurious signal went away. It was a fairly strong carrier. David - Original Message - From: Nate Duehr To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 4:16 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Possible interference on 146.160 On Nov 11, 2007, at 2:48 PM, David Murman wrote: The fix was repeater A to replace a notch filter they had on the repeater to notch out repeater B. That's interesting. On their receiver? Miles away from your machine? Pretty good mix to be strong enough to be seen miles away. Wonder what was doing it in their system? -- Nate Duehr, WY0X [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Possible interference on 146.160
Nate Duehr wrote: On Nov 11, 2007, at 2:48 PM, David Murman wrote: The fix was repeater A to replace a notch filter they had on the repeater to notch out repeater B. That's interesting. On their receiver? Miles away from your machine? Pretty good mix to be strong enough to be seen miles away. Wonder what was doing it in their system? -- Nate Duehr, WY0X [EMAIL PROTECTED] Likely mixing in their transmitter due to no circulator. Ed Yoho WA6RQD
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Dallas Semiconductor Real-Time Clock (Was RC-96 Controller Problem)
Eric, I've been toying around with this idea for a couple of years - set the SCOM 7K clock to atomic standards. As you know, the 7K's are prone to drifting with their time of day clock. The idea is to have a stable WWV signal that listen to the top of the hour signal. I'm thinking that is a 1000 kHZ tone, but I could be wrong about that. If someone could build a circuit to decode the top of the hour signal from WWV, you could command the controller, through macros, to reset the clock. Shouldn't be all that difficult. The designers of the new SCOM controller recognized that problem earlier, and as I am told, have placed a new crystal / circuit in the time of day clock to address that problem in the 7330 line. With all of the 7K's out in the field, if a simple circuit could be made it would eliminate the drifting problem. Don, KD9PT - Original Message - From: Eric Lemmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 3:27 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Dallas Semiconductor Real-Time Clock (Was RC-96 Controller Problem) Mike and others, The Dallas Semiconductor Nonvolatile Timekeeping RAM found in many popular controllers, including the Link RLC-1 Plus, is Part Number DS1643-150. The 11-page datasheet can be downloaded here: www.datasheetarchive.com/pdf/1235806.pdf Notice that the -150 indicates 150 ns access time. The replacement device offered by Dallas/Maxim has either 70 ns or 100 ns access time, and I have no idea if the newer device will work properly where a 150 ns device was used. On page 5 of the datasheet is a paragraph entitled Internal Battery Longevity which states that the device can operate for 10 years in the absence of VCC power. When powered as it would normally be in a typical application, the note states that the lifetime can be as long as 20 years. The battery is not accessible for replacement. I see that the guaranteed accuracy of the DS1643 clock is within +/- 1 minute per month, and there is no capability to tweak the crystal to get better accuracy. One of the Hams in my area is experimenting with a scheme to use a so-called atomic clock to jam-set the correct time once per day. With regular synchronism to WWVB, the time announcements will normally be no more than a second off. Once he gets this idea working, perhaps I can get him to write an article about it. I and many other time-and-frequency geeks think that time announcements should be correct. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Morris WA6ILQ Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 12:29 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem I don't have my Dallas Semi book handy, but if I remember correctly the 10 years spec was 10 unpowered years - if the Smartwatch was in a device that was powered up the battery was not being drained. But you still had to factor in the shelf life of the internal coin cell. At 03:44 AM 11/10/07, you wrote: Eric, As Kevin said if your 96 has one of the Dallas Smartwatch the battery in some of them had a life of 10 years. It was basically the shelf life of the battery. Most of the Smartwatch's I've seen used a RAM as the memory rather than a EPROM. The battery maintained the memory when power was lost. The battery could power and maintain memory for the life of the battery which again was spec'd for 10 years although most often lasted 12-14 years. Kinda gets into the area of some rigs having their OS in battery backed RAM. The Smartwatch was made by Dallas Semiconductor. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Kevin Berlen, K9HX [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:k9hx%40arrl.net Date: 2007/11/10 Sat AM 02:42:39 CST To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem What version of software is in your controller? With rev 5 of thesoftware, a Dallas Smartwatch was added to the RC-96 to provide a real-time clock. As Irecall, the smartwatch occupied one of the eprom sockets, and the affected eprom wasplugged into a socket on top of the device. If yours has the smartwatch, it maybe the culprit. 73. Kevin, K9HX At 10:10 PM 11/9/2007, you wrote: One of the repeaters I maintainhas been working perfectly for almost a year since its last checkup. It is a 6m repeater that has a link toseveral other 6m repeaters, and is controlled by an ACC RC-96 controller. Itis powered from a very large commercial UPS that ensures no-breakpower. One evening, the controller went berserk, for no apparent reason. It started transmitting a string of Morse characters on both the primaryand secondary ports: dit dah dit ... dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dahdah dah ... for about two minutes. It would then be quiet on both ports forabout 30 seconds, and would then
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Dallas Semiconductor Real-Time Clock (Was RC-96 Controller Problem)
YES! YES! YES! Thank you Ken! -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ken Arck Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 3:16 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Dallas Semiconductor Real-Time Clock (Was RC-96 Controller Problem) Alternately, we will be adding support to our products to use NEMA data from a cheap GPS for clock accuracy in the near future as well.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Dallas Semiconductor Real-Time Clock (Was RC-96 Controller Problem)
Don, The on-the-hour tone is an 800 ms burst of 1500 Hz. I have built a PLL 1500 Hz tone detector into a Hamtronics WWV receiver, and it works fine- giving me a relay contact closure exactly on the hour. Unfortunately, that would only allow me to jam-set the minutes and seconds to zero, and would not correct an hour error- such as when DST starts and stops. I considered dispensing with the voice time announcement completely, and just broadcast an hourly beep. The problem is that transmitters don't come up instantly, and most or all of the beep will be missed. My solution to that problem is to use the on-the-hour pulse to reset a simple countdown timer that closes a PTT relay at the end of a 59 minute 57 second delay. The countdown timer will key the transmitter shortly before the hour, ensuring that it is ready to pass the 1500 Hz beep exactly on the hour. As soon as the beep detector relay relaxes, PTT goes away, and the repeater will issue its identity message and return to idle mode. I'm still tinkering with this idea. The downside is that WWV reception varies with the time of day and propagation factors, and a decent antenna is required. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Don Kupferschmidt Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 5:43 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Dallas Semiconductor Real-Time Clock (Was RC-96 Controller Problem) Eric, I've been toying around with this idea for a couple of years - set the SCOM 7K clock to atomic standards. As you know, the 7K's are prone to drifting with their time of day clock. The idea is to have a stable WWV signal that listen to the top of the hour signal. I'm thinking that is a 1000 kHZ tone, but I could be wrong about that. If someone could build a circuit to decode the top of the hour signal from WWV, you could command the controller, through macros, to reset the clock. Shouldn't be all that difficult. The designers of the new SCOM controller recognized that problem earlier, and as I am told, have placed a new crystal / circuit in the time of day clock to address that problem in the 7330 line. With all of the 7K's out in the field, if a simple circuit could be made it would eliminate the drifting problem. Don, KD9PT - Original Message - From: Eric Lemmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:wb6fly%40verizon.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 3:27 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Dallas Semiconductor Real-Time Clock (Was RC-96 Controller Problem) Mike and others, The Dallas Semiconductor Nonvolatile Timekeeping RAM found in many popular controllers, including the Link RLC-1 Plus, is Part Number DS1643-150. The 11-page datasheet can be downloaded here: www.datasheetarchive.com/pdf/1235806.pdf Notice that the -150 indicates 150 ns access time. The replacement device offered by Dallas/Maxim has either 70 ns or 100 ns access time, and I have no idea if the newer device will work properly where a 150 ns device was used. On page 5 of the datasheet is a paragraph entitled Internal Battery Longevity which states that the device can operate for 10 years in the absence of VCC power. When powered as it would normally be in a typical application, the note states that the lifetime can be as long as 20 years. The battery is not accessible for replacement. I see that the guaranteed accuracy of the DS1643 clock is within +/- 1 minute per month, and there is no capability to tweak the crystal to get better accuracy. One of the Hams in my area is experimenting with a scheme to use a so-called atomic clock to jam-set the correct time once per day. With regular synchronism to WWVB, the time announcements will normally be no more than a second off. Once he gets this idea working, perhaps I can get him to write an article about it. I and many other time-and-frequency geeks think that time announcements should be correct. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Dallas Semiconductor Real-Time Clock (Was RC-96 Controller Problem)
Shades of the late 1960s PARC serial time code generator. At the top of the hour you would hear a real wooden cuckoo clock... The clock had a mic cartridge from a Motrac base mic positioned next to the clock's voice box. There was a microswitch on the hour cam for PTT, therefore the time code was only on the hour. A Paragon time clock opened the PTT lead from 10:30pm to 5:30AM (the last ID of the day was 10pm, the first was 6AM) The transmitter was a 1/4w Moto exciter fed to a small beam with only a couple of element. The signal was just barely full quieting, but a 10w mobile anywhere in the coverage area could capture it. Initially it was cute, and the regular users got to the point where they could predict the keyup You'd hear a conversation going on and someone on the repeater would say oh - and now a word from our sponsor unkey squelch tail keyupcuckoo cuckoo cuckoo 20 wpm Morse IDunkey squelch tail and the conversation would continue... ...but after a while it got annoying and evaporated. Mike WA6ILQ At 06:14 PM 11/11/07, you wrote: Don, The on-the-hour tone is an 800 ms burst of 1500 Hz. I have built a PLL 1500 Hz tone detector into a Hamtronics WWV receiver, and it works fine- giving me a relay contact closure exactly on the hour. Unfortunately, that would only allow me to jam-set the minutes and seconds to zero, and would not correct an hour error- such as when DST starts and stops. I considered dispensing with the voice time announcement completely, and just broadcast an hourly beep. The problem is that transmitters don't come up instantly, and most or all of the beep will be missed. My solution to that problem is to use the on-the-hour pulse to reset a simple countdown timer that closes a PTT relay at the end of a 59 minute 57 second delay. The countdown timer will key the transmitter shortly before the hour, ensuring that it is ready to pass the 1500 Hz beep exactly on the hour. As soon as the beep detector relay relaxes, PTT goes away, and the repeater will issue its identity message and return to idle mode. I'm still tinkering with this idea. The downside is that WWV reception varies with the time of day and propagation factors, and a decent antenna is required. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Don Kupferschmidt Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 5:43 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Dallas Semiconductor Real-Time Clock (Was RC-96 Controller Problem) Eric, I've been toying around with this idea for a couple of years - set the SCOM 7K clock to atomic standards. As you know, the 7K's are prone to drifting with their time of day clock. The idea is to have a stable WWV signal that listen to the top of the hour signal. I'm thinking that is a 1000 kHZ tone, but I could be wrong about that. If someone could build a circuit to decode the top of the hour signal from WWV, you could command the controller, through macros, to reset the clock. Shouldn't be all that difficult. The designers of the new SCOM controller recognized that problem earlier, and as I am told, have placed a new crystal / circuit in the time of day clock to address that problem in the 7330 line. With all of the 7K's out in the field, if a simple circuit could be made it would eliminate the drifting problem. Don, KD9PT - Original Message - From: Eric Lemmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:wb6fly%40verizon.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 3:27 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Dallas Semiconductor Real-Time Clock (Was RC-96 Controller Problem) Mike and others, The Dallas Semiconductor Nonvolatile Timekeeping RAM found in many popular controllers, including the Link RLC-1 Plus, is Part Number DS1643-150. The 11-page datasheet can be downloaded here: www.datasheetarchive.com/pdf/1235806.pdf Notice that the -150 indicates 150 ns access time. The replacement device offered by Dallas/Maxim has either 70 ns or 100 ns access time, and I have no idea if the newer device will work properly where a 150 ns device was used. On page 5 of the datasheet is a paragraph entitled Internal Battery Longevity which states that the device can operate for 10 years in the absence of VCC power. When powered as it would normally be in a typical application, the note states that the lifetime can be as long as 20 years. The battery is not accessible for replacement. I see that the guaranteed accuracy of the DS1643 clock is within +/- 1 minute per month, and there is no capability to tweak the crystal to get better accuracy. One of the Hams in my area is experimenting with a scheme to use a so-called atomic clock to jam-set the correct time once per day. With regular synchronism to WWVB, the time announcements will normally be no more than a second off. Once he
