Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mocom - Motrac receiver on 6 Meters
At 08:08 PM 09/21/08, you wrote: Does the Motrac style preselector tune on the high end of 6 Meters, 53.7 MHz without capacitor changes? It seems that modifications to the preselector would be difficult, as it appears to be hand wired - assembled. Breaking a coil seems easy to do. 20 odd ago the California Highway Patrol surplused a huge pile of LLT Motrans (the first of the all-solid-state versions of the Motrac) and replaced them with Micors (which have been disposed of as well). Our local 6m enthusiasts group picked up two dozen of them to replace a pile of GGVs, GGTs, GADs and GKDs (the D meant dynamotor... on those radios the headlights dimmed and you could hear the idle speed drop when you keyed the PTT button). The CHP Motrans were 4F transmit, 2F receive, and dual PL decode and encode. They were easy to mod to 4F receive. The driver was a germanium TO3 and they had four more for a PA deck and they were matched quads. The final the transistors were fragile to SWR - when we did a new install and had to trim the antenna for best SWR we had to use a LHB, GGB, LHT or GGT as the RF source. I picked up 4 CHP Motrans myself - one for my station wagon, one for my moms car and one for my dads van plus a spare. I ended up shipping the spare radio, a cable and a head up to one of the hams in the engineering labs at Siliconix to see if they could get a VMOS PowerFet to play properly in a TO3 case at 54MHz but never heard back from them. I still wonder what happened to the LLT. The low band Motrac/Motran/Mocom 70 receivers came in 4 splits - 25-30, 30-26, 36-42, and 42-50 MHz. Naturally the 42-50 ones go to 6m easier than the others. Fortunately the CHP radios were all 42-50. Anyway we moved the Motran receivers from 42-43MHz up to 6m and stagger tuned them to span 4 channels which went as high as 53.20. Some receivers needed no tweaks, some needed 1/2 turn taken off one or two coils. All needed mods to the multiplier chain (look in the book and see what caps varied with the split, then look at what the difference is between 36-42 and 42-50 and reduce them by about 1/2 of that difference) The ones that were up above 53 were starting to run out of front end adjustment, but nobody was up to doing a major hack and slash on the front ends. The noise level on a non-extender radio was so high that the slightly decreased sensitivity at 53.2(something) didn't have much effect. Remember that a extender-equipped receiver is almost mandatory at 6m, and implementing an extender on a single-site 6m repeater is almost impossible. In your shoes if you REALLY have to make it play at 53.7 I'd tune the receiver up on a under-50MHz channel that you have an element for (even if it's commercial, or even 47.42MHz Red Cross) and write down a full set of meter readings and use them as a baseline. Then replace the element with a sig gen with the level cranked up to match the element output. In your sig gen frequency calculations don't forget to compensate for the fact that the element includes a tripler. Once you have the sig gen set up right make sure the performance of the receiver matches the baseline on every measurement. Once you have, in effect, a VFO'd receiver you can start cranking the frequency up in steps (maybe 1/4 to 1/2 MHz at a time) retuning the receiver each time and focusing on checking each stage of the multiplier chain and the front end against the baseline. When the first adjustment tops out (i..e the adjustment no longer has an effect) you will know what stage is coming up short. If you want to spend the time you can continue until the last adjustment tops out and you will have an idea of how much to take off each stage (lower top-out means more comes off). For ideas on how to do the front end mod look at www.repeater-builder.com on the Micor pages. There is at least one article on modifying the front end of a high band receiver. The concepts and some of the methods are transferrable to your needs. If my memory serves, I think you will find that the multipliers will top out first. Mike WA6ILQ
[Repeater-Builder] FS: GE 900 MHz net repeaters
Hi all, I have several GE Mastr ? 900 MHz repeaters. I think that they are 100 watt they have what looks like a local control shelf where the control cards normaly are. Also have an extra shelf on the top of the normal Mastr shelf. They come with the 28VDC power supply, cage, PA and that extra shelf. Traveling from New Orleans to Johnson City, TN so if your on the way save shipping. $250.00 each. 1st 4 sold get an extra waterloged repeater for parts. call email with questions kd4pbc at yahoo.com 73
[Repeater-Builder] MSR-2000 interconnects
Gentlemen: I purchased one of the five MSR-2000's that was on the auction site a week ago, and it will be arriving tomorrow... These were all sold without power supplies, so I would appreciate it if anyone can provide the interconnection diagram or other wiring info. I know I need 13.8 and 9.6 volt supplies - just need to know where to hook them up. I already have the alignment instructions from the RB Mitrek/MSR-2000 page. George, KA3HSW / WQGJ413
[Repeater-Builder] need some upgrade help
hey all, i would like to first say that this has nothing to do with building a repeater (sorry Kevin and the Mods here) but its a good large group that might be able to help me. i moved from southern california to southern oregon almost 2 years ago. well i am comming up on having to renew my license and i want to upgrade to a general. the thing is i cant seem to find anything online about VE sessions going on here in Grants Pass Oregon. anyone out there know anything? once again Kevin and the mods here, sorry but yall got a good large group here. i thought i would give it a try 73s Dave KF6WJA
[Repeater-Builder] schematics T856/05
hi .. 1- i am looking for the complete schematics of the VHF Tait T356/05 transmitter. i have scanned drawing but it is mising the Crystal oscilator part. 2- i want to implement CTCSS in the receiver T355/05 is there anyone who has ideas ??? howto/where from ... with kind regards Joost , PE1RMN http://pi3goe.web-log.nl
[Repeater-Builder] PA Question
I have an old MSR2000 that went bad and we have a low watt repeater that I was wondering if we could use it to drive the PA from the old MSR2000? Does anyone know what RF power level we need to drive the amp? Also, is it just RF hook ups and power, or do we need to hook up any of the other wires on the small db-9 type plug? We don't have any documentation on the PA or the repeater so don't know what power level was needed to driver the amp and I didn't want to overdrive it. Thanks. Randy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Does anyone else think of Power Factor like SWR?
The power factor case is semantically different than the SWR case in the following way: With SWR, energy is flowing in both directions at near the speed of light. If the reflected signal is the exact same frequency as the forward signal (as in the case where it is a reflection of a signal at a particular frequency, then there will be points along the line where the forward and reflects will be in phase and point along the line where they will be out of phase. SWR is a ratio of the max voltage to the min voltage. If there is no reflection, there is nothing to add or subtract, and so the max and min voltage will be the same. The ratio (SWR) is therefore 1:1. If all energy is reflected, the minimum will be zero, so that ratio of the max to the min will be infinite. Now if I simultaneously measure a power line at 10 different point in a mile, I would detect no significant difference in power factor between the points. This is because the voltage anywhere on the wire is the same (san some IR drop), and the current into one end in the same as the current flowing out the other end. Therefore, the angle between the voltage and current waveforms wil be the same all aong the run. ...Well, not exactly: 60 Hz has a period of 16.7ms. On quarter wavelength is roughly where transmission line effects become significant. One quarter of a period is at 60Hz is 4.17ms. If c=2.98x10^8 meters per second, it would travel 1241.7km in a quarter cycle. (Actually, it is slightly less due to the relative delectric constant of air being slightly higher than that of a vacuum.) If the distance between the source and the load is significantly less than this, no significant steady-state effects will be observable. (Transient effects such as spikes could be seen if a power line broke in a windstorm.) If I were to measure our power line at points much further apart (say thoudands of miles) we could indeed measure a difference because what happens is sufficiently delayed with respect the other points. Thus the adjective semantically. When we talk about power factor the tacit assumption is that the same voltage exists at all locatons of the wires and that the current in equals the current out (i.e. that we are talking about distances much much smaller than a quarter wavelength). When we talk about SWR (or more correctly VSWR) we tacitly assume we are talking about transmission lines of the order of or longer than a quarter wavelength. Jeff Condit
Re: [Repeater-Builder] need some upgrade help
At 08:47 PM 09/21/08, you wrote: hey all, i would like to first say that this has nothing to do with building a repeater (sorry Kevin and the Mods here) but its a good large group that might be able to help me. i moved from southern california to southern oregon almost 2 years ago. well i am comming up on having to renew my license and i want to upgrade to a general. the thing is i cant seem to find anything online about VE sessions going on here in Grants Pass Oregon. anyone out there know anything? once again Kevin and the mods here, sorry but yall got a good large group here. i thought i would give it a try 73s Dave KF6WJA From the web page at http://www.arrl.org/arrlvec/examsearch.phtml that lists almost 3 dozen upcoming license exams in Oregon... 21-Nov-2008 Sponsor: SOARC Time: 6:30 PM (Walk-ins allowed) Contact: WILLIAM A TYNER (541)476-2703 Email: GOODGRENDL @ AOL.COM VEC: ARRL/VEC Location: FRUITDALE GRANGE 1440 PARKDALE DR US 99 GRANTS PASS, OR 97526 And there may be more that are close to you but I don't know the geography well enough to know if, for example, Corvallis, Lincoln City, Lebanon or White City is within reasonable driving distance of Grants Pass. Good luck on your upgrade. Mike WA6ILQ (who lived in the Portland area for 4 months once doing a contract job at Intel...)
Re: [Repeater-Builder] PA Question
At 06:54 PM 09/21/08, you wrote: I have an old MSR2000 that went bad and we have a low watt repeater that I was wondering if we could use it to drive the PA from the old MSR2000? Does anyone know what RF power level we need to drive the amp? Also, is it just RF hook ups and power, or do we need to hook up any of the other wires on the small db-9 type plug? We don't have any documentation on the PA or the repeater so don't know what power level was needed to driver the amp and I didn't want to overdrive it. Thanks. Randy [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'd fix the MSR. What went bad ?? Once you get past the card shelf it's a pretty simple radio.
[Repeater-Builder] Maxon SM4150M programming cable
I am requesting assistance in finding a source to purchase a programming cable for the MAXON SM4150 VHF Mobile radio. Is it going to be difficult to obtain software, or am I going to have to deal with Maxon. I am planning to use a pair, and whip up a Link to our local EOC on Vashon Island, Wa. This is my first attempt using Maxon radioshave always used Maxtrac radios, but the Maxons were a Steal! Appreciate any assistance. Tim Hardy W7TRH/AFA5TP Wa.
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Mocom - Motrac receiver on 6 Meters
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Mike Morris WA6ILQ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 08:08 PM 09/21/08, you wrote: The low band Motrac/Motran/Mocom 70 receivers came in 4 splits - 25-30, 30-26, 36-42, and 42-50 MHz. Naturally the 42-50 ones go to 6m easier than the others. Fortunately the CHP radios were all 42-50. I don't believe that's correct. I think they were 36-42. In any case, I remember changing a lot of caps, and that no one else in the group actually got theirs on the air (well, there was Charlie 'PZJ, who could get anything on the air, but he never actually used his radios). Jeff W6JK
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Mocom - Motrac receiver on 6 Meters
No, CHP radios were 42-50 MHz. I've had the CHP Motrac, CHP Motran, CHP Micor. -- Original Message -- Received: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 10:47:53 AM PDT From: Jeff Kincaid [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Mocom - Motrac receiver on 6 Meters --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Mike Morris WA6ILQ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 08:08 PM 09/21/08, you wrote: The low band Motrac/Motran/Mocom 70 receivers came in 4 splits - 25-30, 30-26, 36-42, and 42-50 MHz. Naturally the 42-50 ones go to 6m easier than the others. Fortunately the CHP radios were all 42-50. I don't believe that's correct. I think they were 36-42. In any case, I remember changing a lot of caps, and that no one else in the group actually got theirs on the air (well, there was Charlie 'PZJ, who could get anything on the air, but he never actually used his radios). Jeff W6JK
[Repeater-Builder] Nice Micor for sale:
I have a Motorola Micor UHF repeater in a 5' cabinet with doors available for sale. I didn't get the tower space I wanted, so my loss is your gain! This repeater is almost complete, power supply, exciter, PA, receiver, cans and has all cards you need, just add a controller, crystals, and someone who can tune cans, and your ham club can be on the air very inexpensively. I also have the manual, extra PL cards and tone reeds for 107.2 Model: C64RCB 3105AT SP327 FCC Xmit Data: CC4224C FCC Rcvr Data: RC0080 PA is stamped TLE1713A1 It has a set of Phelps Dodge cavities. I'd like $400 for it, or make an offer. Please contact me off list for photos and info. Pickup in 4 land!! [EMAIL PROTECTED] _
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Update on the MICOR Community Repeater project
n9wys wrote: Eric, For everyone: At one point, Eric referred me to an eBay auction, listing among other things a Master Decoder card of the same part number as the ones I have. Those cards were in an MSY chassis... which makes me wonder if there is a fundamental difference on the MSY-version versus the MICOR-version of this card. My examination of the card leads me to believe this is the case, I just need to verify this. While I'm not as sure on the Micor, I am ABSOLUTELY positive the MSY community repeaters split the PL tone out of the rx audio, buffered/gated/amplified, and re-transmitted the incoming PL tone from the mobile. It did NOT have a separate PL encoder.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Update on the MICOR Community Repeater project
Joe Burkleo wrote: Mark, Sorry to hear that you are still fighting this problem. I think we were on the right track when this kinda ended last month, in that what you need to find is a Motrac series community repeater manual that might show the TLN5803A Master Decoder. I have not been able to turn one up yet. I do have one question for you about the original configuration in these stations. Did they originally have a Diode Logic and a Multiple TPL Encoder card installed in them? I am sure you have answered this question already, but I really do not remember. I have never seen those cards in any Micor CR's I looked at, so I'm certain they are not necessary. I think the right path is that he has MSY Master decoder cards, and I know they are not directly compatible. But I think they can be modded...
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Update on the MICOR Community Repeater project
Yep - I see the same as you, Eric. That's why I continue to wonder about these cards. I originally bought 14 chassis altogether, and was provided with about 9 of the same Master Decoder card. In the beginning - the world was dark and without form... sorry I digress. In the beginning, I got the chassis and cards from a purveyor who had them stacked in the corner of his place. Can't vouch for where they came from, or if they were even assembled and working prior to that (some of them were already victims of parts scavengers) and to be honest, I can't remember if he did, either. So since the very start I've been operating on the assumption that these cards worked in the chassis I have -- probably an incorrect assumption, I'm beginning to believe. However, the bigger problem is NOBODY seems to be responding as to whether they have either the later version cards OR the schematic for the cards I have. Until I can confirm something (one way or another) I'm at an impasse. Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Eric Lemmon Mark, Now, I'm the one who is confused! I just looked at a UHF community repeater and noticed that it has a TRN6421APR backplane. However, it is equipped with a TRN6165A Master Decoder. I therefore wonder if the TLN5803A Master Decoder you have even belongs to that machine. I confirmed, as you did, that Pin 24 on the TRN6165A Master Decoder has no connection. Is it possible that the previous owner simply stuffed the chassis with leftover pull-outs? The TRN6421APR backplane PCB has the following module assignments, right to left: 1 - Timeout Timer 2 - Station Control 3 - Squelch Gate 4 - Single Tone Decoder 5 - Master Decoder 6 - Four-User Control 7 - Ditto 8 - Ditto 9 - Ditto 10 - Diode Logic 11 - Multi-TPL Encoder 12 - Multi DPL Encoder I have no manuals for a Community Repeater, so I do not have any means to follow the signal path via schematics. That said, it seems to me that a Multi-TPL Encoder in Slot 11 would generate the unique PL tone that the repeater would transmit. You did not state if such a module was installed in your station, so I wonder if that is why your station is not encoding the tone. As others have noted, it is always preferable to filter out and then regenerate a PL tone, rather than allow it to pass through a repeater. The reason for that is two-fold: Some cheap user radios have very poor tone purity, and may be difficult to decode, and some user radios have widely-varying tone deviation that range from not enough to double or triple the proper level. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of n9wys Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 9:04 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Update on the MICOR Community Repeater project Eric, --- (snip) --- At one point in the build, I *thought* I had this problem resolved... but apparently what was happening was the PL was bleeding through from the receive to the transmitter. That is why I was able to talk it off. After looking at the station operation with a service monitor, I am certain that it is NOT encoding PL for transmit. I have no PL at Pin 2 of the Master Decoder, which is what feeds the PL tone to the exciter/modulator. For everyone: At one point, Eric referred me to an eBay auction, listing among other things a Master Decoder card of the same part number as the ones I have. Those cards were in an MSY chassis... which makes me wonder if there is a fundamental difference on the MSY-version versus the MICOR-version of this card. My examination of the card leads me to believe this is the case, I just need to verify this. Eric, the part number stamped on the backplane is: TRN6421A, and the number on the Master Decoder card is: TLN5803A Thanks everyone! Mark - N9WYS / WQIV271
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Update on the MICOR Community Repeater project
Hi, Joe. No they were not equipped with either, that I can tell. At least I was not provided with any of those cards. And I called Motorola, the manuals are all NLA... OK on calling - I think I have your TX number somewhere in the message archives. Will be working until Friday - my next day off. What's a good time to try to call? (Remember the 2-hour time difference... wink ) Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Joe Burkleo Mark, Sorry to hear that you are still fighting this problem. I think we were on the right track when this kinda ended last month, in that what you need to find is a Motrac series community repeater manual that might show the TLN5803A Master Decoder. I have not been able to turn one up yet. I do have one question for you about the original configuration in these stations. Did they originally have a Diode Logic and a Multiple TPL Encoder card installed in them? I am sure you have answered this question already, but I really do not remember. If you still have my number, give me a call and we can talk on the phone. I have misplaced your phone number. 73, Joe - WA7JAW
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Update on the MICOR Community Repeater project
Thanks Gerald!! I think that'll get me headed in the right direction... Yes, if you can get a clean copy of the schematic (maybe have someone scan it and send it to me via e-mail??) that'll help **immensely**! 73 de Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Gerald Pelnar Mark, I have a manual for a 68P1056A35 MOTRAC C74MSY-3101AY and BY community repeater. It shows the BY uses a TLN1684A master decode. I didn't come forward before because I didn't see that number mentioned. part # TLN5803A is the kit number for the master decode board in a TLN1684A module. Pin 24 on the card should be exciter gnd for the xmit pl level pot. If I can get a decent copy, I'll send you what I have. Gerald Pelnar WD0FYF McPherson, Ks
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Update on the MICOR Community Repeater project
The Diode Logic Module and Multiple TPL Encoder cards would only have been used if someone wanted to RX one PL code and TX another, ie crosscoding, a rare beast indeed but Moto had the capability... Milt - Original Message - From: wd8chl [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Update on the MICOR Community Repeater project Joe Burkleo wrote: Mark, Sorry to hear that you are still fighting this problem. I think we were on the right track when this kinda ended last month, in that what you need to find is a Motrac series community repeater manual that might show the TLN5803A Master Decoder. I have not been able to turn one up yet. I do have one question for you about the original configuration in these stations. Did they originally have a Diode Logic and a Multiple TPL Encoder card installed in them? I am sure you have answered this question already, but I really do not remember. I have never seen those cards in any Micor CR's I looked at, so I'm certain they are not necessary. I think the right path is that he has MSY Master decoder cards, and I know they are not directly compatible. But I think they can be modded... Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] schematics T856/05
Hello Joost Try the Tait web page of obsolete equipment. http://www.taitworld.com/technical/index.cfm/4,0,76,46,html Regards Don vk2zcz - Original Message - From: pe1rmn To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 8:43 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] schematics T856/05 hi .. 1- i am looking for the complete schematics of the VHF Tait T356/05 transmitter. i have scanned drawing but it is mising the Crystal oscilator part. 2- i want to implement CTCSS in the receiver T355/05 is there anyone who has ideas ??? howto/where from ... with kind regards Joost , PE1RMN http://pi3goe.web-log.nl
[Repeater-Builder] Mike Morris
Mike Morris, WA6ILQ please check your email. I sent a reply to your direct message from yesterday but haven't heard back from you. Gary N6LRV
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Update on the MICOR Community Repeater project
Mark, That sounds good. I should be available pretty much when ever you have time. After 8 AM until 11 PM Pacific time should be OK. I do not remember if you listed what the part number of the 4 user modules that you have is. If they are not of the same vintage or series as the Master Decoder Card that could be a possible source of a problem. I do not remember much about Motrac Community Repeaters, only worked on a couple of them and that was a long time ago. I may be way off base here, but I would think that all the cards should be of the same vintage or series. If the Master Decoder Card is from the MSY series station, I would expect that the rest of the cards in the chassis would be MSY vintage also. Mark, have you tried finding a TRN6165A Master Decoder Module to try in your repeater? 73, Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, n9wys [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Joe. No they were not equipped with either, that I can tell. At least I was not provided with any of those cards. And I called Motorola, the manuals are all NLA... OK on calling - I think I have your TX number somewhere in the message archives. Will be working until Friday - my next day off. What's a good time to try to call? (Remember the 2-hour time difference... wink ) Mark - N9WYS
[Repeater-Builder] Re. Maxon 4150 Help
I want to say a big Thank You to all that replied to my request for info. regarding programming cable and software for the Maxon 4150M! I now have enough information to get started. It is always fun to learn programming on a New radio to me! Once I get into the programming, I may have more questions for the group. You folks are sure a wealth of knowledge, and I truly thank you for sharing your talents and experience!!! Best Regards, Tim W7TRH/AFA5TP Vashon Is. Wa.
