[Repeater-Builder] Wanted: WWVB Antenna for Spectracom Netclock
Not sure if everyone here knows what I'm talking about, but I was given a SpectraCom Netclock/2 time frequency standard at work, and I need the WWVB Croquet Mallet antenna for it. This is an active antenna designed to work with the Spectracom Netclock/2 product. Those in commercial radio should know what this is. If anyone has one, please let me know via e-mail, surf_bo...@yahoo.com Thanks! Chris/KF6AJM
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
One of the biggest problems that is that the current DTV TRANSITION channelization can easily have a VHF analog broadcasting the DTV digital on a UHF channel. POST-TRANSITION the DTV digital could either end up back on the existing VHF channel or on the current UHF transition channel or a new VHF orUHF channel...BUT from the USER point of view the channel number will not change! Thus a channel 4 analog might be broadcasting digital on channel 45 pre-transition and end up on channel 20 post transition; but the channel you would enter on the TV will still be channel 4-1, 4-2, etc. Talk about confusion! It will take at least a generation to straighten this mess out IF over the air television survives. Milt N3LTQ - Original Message - From: JOHN MACKEY jmac...@usa.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 2:51 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work If the digital is on a very different frequency, then the frequency change is a reason why digital reception may be problematic. For example, if you are using a VHF antenna to try to receive a UHF digital signal, that will be problematic. -- Original Message -- Received: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 09:14:14 PM PST From: wd8chl wd8...@gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work That's the gripe. If I put up an antenna that works fine for analog, there is no excuse for it NOT to work with digital, except that digital must be crap. Rf is RF. Virtually everybody I have talked to has had nothing but problems with DTV. Invariably they get fewer channels, and stations that are good to excellent in analog can frequently be unwatchable in digital. To see a digital as reliably as an analog is the exception, not the rule. Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
Some parts of the world use a different format for their digital. The one in the US tends to be very unforgiving of multipath. Chuck - Original Message - So you suggest the physics in your part of the world differs from over here? as so far digital in my country has been successful with large distances also between set and tx . What is your explanation for such a thing
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
Just going to UHF is a lot of the problem. Propagation is different, especially in hilly areas like where I live. People near me have the correct equipment, but it just plain won't pull in the new DTV channels as well. Part of this can be attributed to any station that may not yet be at full power with their DTV signal. Chuck - Original Message - From: JOHN MACKEY jmac...@usa.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 2:51 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work If the digital is on a very different frequency, then the frequency change is a reason why digital reception may be problematic. For example, if you are using a VHF antenna to try to receive a UHF digital signal, that will be problematic.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
Also transmitter power on Digital seems to be 10db less or more. An engineer here indicates many HDTV transmitters are 1500w output...plus antenna system.. ERP is a lot less in most cases.. Said engineer indicated the industry may be going to push for 6kw nozzle power after all is up and running and they can sort out what is what... This is all from unofficial armchair conversations and may vary by locale Doug At 02:51 AM 2/23/2009, you wrote: If the digital is on a very different frequency, then the frequency change is a reason why digital reception may be problematic. For example, if you are using a VHF antenna to try to receive a UHF digital signal, that will be problematic. -- Original Message -- Received: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 09:14:14 PM PST From: wd8chl mailto:wd8chl%40gmail.comwd8...@gmail.com To: mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work That's the gripe. If I put up an antenna that works fine for analog, there is no excuse for it NOT to work with digital, except that digital must be crap. Rf is RF. Virtually everybody I have talked to has had nothing but problems with DTV. Invariably they get fewer channels, and stations that are good to excellent in analog can frequently be unwatchable in digital. To see a digital as reliably as an analog is the exception, not the rule.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
JOHN MACKEY wrote: If the digital is on a very different frequency, then the frequency change is a reason why digital reception may be problematic. For example, if you are using a VHF antenna to try to receive a UHF digital signal, that will be problematic. I should be able to use any normal TV antenna. If it works on analog Ch 7, for instance, it should work on digital ch 7. Period. If it doesn't, there is something inherently wrong with the medium. Again, RF is RF. The antenna doesn't care how it's modulated.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Rack mount enclosures
They are plastic but if the other components are in metal boxes it may work out ok. 73 de Morris KI4IUA -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater- buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Lemmon Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 11:27 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Cc: ge-mast...@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Rack mount enclosures Tim, Scratch and claw no longer. Marlin P. Jones has just what you want, for 20 bucks each. I just bought two of them. Go here: www.mpja.com/prodinfo.asp?number=17086+BX 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim Osborne Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 7:12 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Rack mount enclosures Hey gang I am tired of scratching and clawing for 1 Rack Unit 19 enclosures for controllers. Does anyone have a source for these at a reasonable price? Thanks Tim Yahoo! Groups Links Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1966 - Release Date: 02/22/09 17:21:00 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1966 - Release Date: 02/22/09 17:21:00 Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:repeater-builder-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:repeater-builder-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: repeater-builder-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
Only if they are on RF channel 7 after the switch. Some stations wanted to keep their identity, such as Channel 2, New York City. When they switch to HDTV they may call themselves Channel 2-1 but their RF frequency may be 33 or something else. Their Virtual Channel will be 2-1, but the RF channel will be 33-1. For example, your channel 5 WEWS analog will be going to RF channel 15. They will continue to use the Virtual Channel number 5-1 for identification. Look at: http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/ and plug in your Zip Code. Can the FCC make this just a little more confusing? 73, Joe, K1ike wd8chl wrote: I should be able to use any normal TV antenna. If it works on analog Ch 7, for instance, it should work on digital ch 7. Period. If it doesn't, there is something inherently wrong with the medium. Again, RF is RF. The antenna doesn't care how it's modulated.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
Joe wrote: Only if they are on RF channel 7 after the switch. Channel 7 is Channel 7. What it shows on the screen is meaningless. wd8chl wrote: I should be able to use any normal TV antenna. If it works on analog Ch 7, for instance, it should work on digital ch 7. Period. If it doesn't, there is something inherently wrong with the medium. Again, RF is RF. The antenna doesn't care how it's modulated.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
Dynamic multipath interference, in which the delay and magnitude of reflections are rapidly changing, is particularly problematic for digital reception. While this just produces moving and changing ghost images for analog TV, it can render a digital signal impossible to decode. The 8VSB-based standards in use in North American ATSC broadcasts are particularly vulnerable to problems from dynamic multipath; this has the potential to severely limit mobile or portable use of digital television receivers. Solving the problem might require that different standards be adopted for mobile use. Chuck - Original Message - From: wd8chl wd8...@gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 9:10 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work JOHN MACKEY wrote: If the digital is on a very different frequency, then the frequency change is a reason why digital reception may be problematic. For example, if you are using a VHF antenna to try to receive a UHF digital signal, that will be problematic. I should be able to use any normal TV antenna. If it works on analog Ch 7, for instance, it should work on digital ch 7. Period. If it doesn't, there is something inherently wrong with the medium. Again, RF is RF. The antenna doesn't care how it's modulated. Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
There's a ton more reading on the subject. Here's a starting point where you'll see the different standards for digital broadcast worldwide. Bottom line, if you have a STRONG digital signal, you'll be OK. Anything less, then all bets are off. That's not to say it won't work, it just becomes unpredictable. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_terrestrial_television Chuck - Original Message - From: Chuck Kelsey wb2...@roadrunner.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 10:37 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work Dynamic multipath interference, in which the delay and magnitude of reflections are rapidly changing, is particularly problematic for digital reception. While this just produces moving and changing ghost images for analog TV, it can render a digital signal impossible to decode. The 8VSB-based standards in use in North American ATSC broadcasts are particularly vulnerable to problems from dynamic multipath; this has the potential to severely limit mobile or portable use of digital television receivers. Solving the problem might require that different standards be adopted for mobile use. Chuck
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
At 21:19 2/22/2009, wd8chl wrote: Virtually everybody I have talked to has had nothing but problems with DTV. Invariably they get fewer channels, and stations that are good to excellent in analog can frequently be unwatchable in digital. To see a digital as reliably as an analog is the exception, not the rule. Now to be fair, it must be said I have very strong signals. But I get better results by far from digital than analog. With a new set I didn't really have time to put an antenna on, I got 15 stations with a paper clip. Never could have done that on analog -- Dave Gomberg, San Francisco NE5EE gomberg1 at wcf dot com All addresses, phones, etc. at http://www.wcf.com/ham/info.html -
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
At 07:46 2/23/2009, Chuck Kelsey wrote: if you have a STRONG digital signal, you'll be OK. Anything less, then all bets are off. That's not to say it won't work, it just becomes unpredictable. Which shows again something that has been true all along, as hams well know: Spend your $$$ on the antenna.For UHF you are much better off if you are line of sight to the transmitter. If not, consider cable or a dish. -- Dave Gomberg, San Francisco NE5EE gomberg1 at wcf dot com All addresses, phones, etc. at http://www.wcf.com/ham/info.html -
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
At 07:46 2/23/2009, Chuck Kelsey wrote: if you have a STRONG digital signal, you'll be OK. Anything less, then all bets are off. That's not to say it won't work, it just becomes unpredictable. Which shows again something that has been true all along, as hams well know: Spend your $$$ on the antenna.For UHF you are much better off if you are line of sight to the transmitter. If not, consider cable or a dish. -- Dave Gomberg, San Francisco NE5EE gomberg1 at wcf dot com All addresses, phones, etc. at http://www.wcf.com/ham/info.html -
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
From: Dave Gomberg da...@wcf.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com; Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 8:53:02 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work At 07:46 2/23/2009, Chuck Kelsey wrote: if you have a STRONG digital signal, you'll be OK. Anything less, then all bets are off. That's not to say it won't work, it just becomes unpredictable. Which shows again something that has been true all along, as hams well know: Spend your $$$ on the antenna.For UHF you are much better off if you are line of sight to the transmitter. If not, consider cable or a dish. -- Dave Gomberg, San Francisco NE5EE gomberg1 at wcf dot com All addresses, phones, etc. at http://www.wcf. com/ham/info. html - - - - - -
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
There's the rub. People had TV that they could watch, that now goes away, forcing them to pay for cable or dish. Chuck - Original Message - Which shows again something that has been true all along, as hams well know: Spend your $$$ on the antenna.For UHF you are much better off if you are line of sight to the transmitter. If not, consider cable or a dish.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
Huh? Maybe you're saying this, but out local CH 2 is DTV CH 25, but after the CH 25 signal is found, it is entered as CH 2 again even though the RF is on CH 25. I agree with CHL - two signals on CH 7 (or any channel) should have the same coverage from the same antenna either analog or digital. Joe M. wd8chl wrote: Joe wrote: Only if they are on RF channel 7 after the switch. Channel 7 is Channel 7. What it shows on the screen is meaningless. wd8chl wrote: I should be able to use any normal TV antenna. If it works on analog Ch 7, for instance, it should work on digital ch 7. Period. If it doesn't, there is something inherently wrong with the medium. Again, RF is RF. The antenna doesn't care how it's modulated. Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
Guess you haven't talked to me. Mine's working great here. more channels on rabbit ears than ever. No, I'm not kidding. What this has got to do with REPEATERS I have no idea though. but I can make a guess or a suggestion that would put it back on-topic: Perhaps (just like in repeaters) buying the cheapest crappiest $40 hunk of junk receiver/converter box from god-knows-where-China, in a plastic non-shielded box, sitting on top of piles of home entertainment electronics, and feeding it with crappy feedline or shoddy connectors or old internal wiring that just isn't up to snuff, and the million other things that can affect reception of an RF signal -- isn't the way to go when attempting to receive DTV signals? The ironic thing is that my DTV receiver is in my DISH NETWORK box. Heh. I don't even really NEED it, but it's doing fine and adding a third source for the DVR from rabbit-ears. yup, plain old rabbit-ears, not amplified, not a good antenna for anything, let alone UHF. (The UHF portion is a circular loop. A spectacularly crap-tastic antenna performance-wise, as we all here know from our hobby.) I'm sure if I put an outside antenna on it with some gain, proper feedline, and a rotor to point it, it'd DX the Colorado Springs and Cheyenne WY transmitters, no problem at all. Rotor would just be for F/B ratio - might not even need it. point the thing at Cheyenne, and pick up COS off the back side. Consider the source when you're hearing that people are having trouble with DTV reception, and ask them if their converter box/receiver cost MORE than the free coupon. Free = you get what you pay for. just like everything else in RF - including repeaters. Someone else pointed out a couple of weeks ago that receiver sensitivity numbers and real-world tests are hard to come by on these things. There's manufacturer numbers, but who believes a manufacturer when they're talking about their own receivers? We're hams. we know how to make a receive antenna system work. but if the receiver is crud. Nate WY0X From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Barry Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 10:28 PM To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work Virtually everybody I have talked to has had nothing but problems with DTV. Invariably they get fewer channels, and stations that are good to excellent in analog can frequently be unwatchable in digital.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
If it does take that long, then we're a country full of idiots, who probably need to watch less TV and read more books anyway. :-) Nate WY0X -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Milt Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 5:02 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work It will take at least a generation to straighten this mess out IF over the air television survives. Milt N3LTQ
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
You realize that the channel displayed on the TV is a data element, and has nothing to do with the actual RF frequency the station is transmitting on in DTV, right? Example: Here in Denver, CBS is moving permanently off of Channel 4 VHF Low, to a Channel 30's range UHF frequency, and not going back down. A VHF antenna won't work (properly) for their signal anymore. During the transition, ABC and NBC are also transmitting on UHF, but will switch back to their VHF High frequencies on cut-over day. The entire time, those stations will still be channels 4, 7 and 9 on the DTV TV's... the TV scans and finds them on UHF, and they transmit that I'm channel 4, and the TV obliges and maps the USER channel 4 to the channel assignments for the lazy dude sitting on the couch with the remote control. But the DTV receiver is really receiving up in UHF spectrum. There's nothing wrong with the medium, but perhaps your understanding of how it works... Nate WY0X -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wd8chl Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 7:11 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work JOHN MACKEY wrote: If the digital is on a very different frequency, then the frequency change is a reason why digital reception may be problematic. For example, if you are using a VHF antenna to try to receive a UHF digital signal, that will be problematic. I should be able to use any normal TV antenna. If it works on analog Ch 7, for instance, it should work on digital ch 7. Period. If it doesn't, there is something inherently wrong with the medium. Again, RF is RF. The antenna doesn't care how it's modulated.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
Ebooks right? =] Chris Kb0wlf -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nate Duehr Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 1:54 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work If it does take that long, then we're a country full of idiots, who probably need to watch less TV and read more books anyway. :-) Nate WY0X -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Milt Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 5:02 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work It will take at least a generation to straighten this mess out IF over the air television survives. Milt N3LTQ Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.2/1964 - Release Date: 02/23/09 07:17:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
Your local analog channel 7, which has been using 174-180 MHz, sets up its digital transmitter on 33, but the screen still says 7-1. So what you're calling digital channel 7 is now 584-590 MHz. No change in antenna performance should be expected? How is that just a change in modulation type? I hope nobody goes to a lot of expense to optimize an antenna system for these interim channels. They'll be really disappointed If 7-1 goes back to the actual VHF channel 7 allocation after June 12th! 73, Paul, AE4KR - Original Message - From: wd8chl To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 7:10 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work I should be able to use any normal TV antenna. If it works on analog Ch 7, for instance, it should work on digital ch 7. Period. If it doesn't, there is something inherently wrong with the medium. Again, RF is RF. The antenna doesn't care how it's modulated.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
Or a converter. Not too much different than what's being done to Land Mobile, eh? Joe M. Chuck Kelsey wrote: There's the rub. People had TV that they could watch, that now goes away, forcing them to pay for cable or dish. Chuck - Original Message - Which shows again something that has been true all along, as hams well know: Spend your $$$ on the antenna.For UHF you are much better off if you are line of sight to the transmitter. If not, consider cable or a dish. Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
Nate Duehr wrote: You realize that the channel displayed on the TV is a data element, and has nothing to do with the actual RF frequency the station is transmitting on in DTV, right? Paul Plack wrote: Your local analog channel 7, which has been using 174-180 MHz, sets up its digital transmitter on 33, but the screen still says 7-1. So what you're calling digital channel 7 is now 584-590 MHz. No change in antenna performance should be expected? How is that just a change in modulation type? I hope nobody goes to a lot of expense to optimize an antenna system for these interim channels. They'll be really disappointed If 7-1 goes back to the actual VHF channel 7 allocation after June 12th! 73, Paul, AE4KR dammit! read it again! I said channel 7 is channel 7! You are taking a channel 7 and moving it! the only concern is the channel-i don't give a what the screen says! geez guys this isn't that hard! - Original Message - From: wd8chl To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 7:10 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work I should be able to use any normal TV antenna. If it works on analog Ch 7, for instance, it should work on digital ch 7. Period. If it doesn't, there is something inherently wrong with the medium. Again, RF is RF. The antenna doesn't care how it's modulated.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
Reminds me of when the CB'ers in town ask me how many channels my ic-7000 has. Harsh =] Chris Kb0wlf -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wd8chl Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 2:48 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work Nate Duehr wrote: You realize that the channel displayed on the TV is a data element, and has nothing to do with the actual RF frequency the station is transmitting on in DTV, right? Paul Plack wrote: Your local analog channel 7, which has been using 174-180 MHz, sets up its digital transmitter on 33, but the screen still says 7-1. So what you're calling digital channel 7 is now 584-590 MHz. No change in antenna performance should be expected? How is that just a change in modulation type? I hope nobody goes to a lot of expense to optimize an antenna system for these interim channels. They'll be really disappointed If 7-1 goes back to the actual VHF channel 7 allocation after June 12th! 73, Paul, AE4KR dammit! read it again! I said channel 7 is channel 7! You are taking a channel 7 and moving it! the only concern is the channel-i don't give a what the screen says! geez guys this isn't that hard! - Original Message - From: wd8chl To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 7:10 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work I should be able to use any normal TV antenna. If it works on analog Ch 7, for instance, it should work on digital ch 7. Period. If it doesn't, there is something inherently wrong with the medium. Again, RF is RF. The antenna doesn't care how it's modulated. Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.2/1964 - Release Date: 02/23/09 07:17:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
Don't get me going on digital, public safety two-way. Another nightmare. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: MCH m...@nb.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 3:39 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work Not too much different than what's being done to Land Mobile, eh? Joe M.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
This is to be expected from a country that managed to vote George W bush into power twice really. You'd have thought you'd have discovered UHF TV a long time ago, like back in the 70s, like we did in the UK. We have pretty much complete coverage (even in hilly areas) with UHF transmitters (and lots of repeaters). Anyway, From the quick skim I've had here, Here's what I've read: The TV channel named Channel 7 is/was on VHF channel 7. It's also now on UHF channel (30?) So it's not long ON channel 7, altough it's CALLED Channel 7. Simple! wd8chl wrote: Nate Duehr wrote: You realize that the channel displayed on the TV is a data element, and has nothing to do with the actual RF frequency the station is transmitting on in DTV, right? Paul Plack wrote: Your local analog channel 7, which has been using 174-180 MHz, sets up its digital transmitter on 33, but the screen still says 7-1. So what you're calling digital channel 7 is now 584-590 MHz. No change in antenna performance should be expected? How is that just a change in modulation type? I hope nobody goes to a lot of expense to optimize an antenna system for these interim channels. They'll be really disappointed If 7-1 goes back to the actual VHF channel 7 allocation after June 12th! 73, Paul, AE4KR dammit! read it again! I said channel 7 is channel 7! You are taking a channel 7 and moving it! the only concern is the channel-i don't give a what the screen says! geez guys this isn't that hard! - Original Message - From: wd8chl To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 7:10 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work I should be able to use any normal TV antenna. If it works on analog Ch 7, for instance, it should work on digital ch 7. Period. If it doesn't, there is something inherently wrong with the medium. Again, RF is RF. The antenna doesn't care how it's modulated. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1966 - Release Date: 02/22/09 17:21:00
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
Gordon You know something pal? Your rants from god knows where attacking our country, and our presidents and voters are not appreciated. With all our problems, and we admit we have plenty, the US still remains the best place on this planet to live. So zip it with the political commentary. Stick to repeater building. As has already been mentioned, this thread is WAY off topic and needs to be taken off list to where ever it may belong. Sorry Kevin if I ranted . Glenn -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gordon 'Yeti' Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 4:40 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work This is to be expected from a country that managed to vote George W bush into power twice really. You'd have thought you'd have discovered UHF TV a long time ago, like back in the 70s, like we did in the UK. We have pretty much complete coverage (even in hilly areas) with UHF transmitters (and lots of repeaters). Anyway, From the quick skim I've had here, Here's what I've read: The TV channel named Channel 7 is/was on VHF channel 7. It's also now on UHF channel (30?) So it's not long ON channel 7, altough it's CALLED Channel 7. Simple!
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
It's more confusing than that. In the HDTV world there is RF channel 7 and Virtual channel 7. They may or (probably) may not be the same frequency. Joe wd8chl wrote: Channel 7 is Channel 7. What it shows on the screen is meaningless.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
DTV channel numbers are relatively meaningless, it's the frequency that counts. Chris N9LLO In a message dated 2/23/2009 5:08:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, wd8...@gmail.com writes: JOHN MACKEY wrote: If the digital is on a very different frequency, then the frequency change is a reason why digital reception may be problematic. For example, if you are using a VHF antenna to try to receive a UHF digital signal, that will be problematic. I should be able to use any normal TV antenna. If it works on analog Ch 7, for instance, it should work on digital ch 7. Period. If it doesn't, there is something inherently wrong with the medium. Again, RF is RF. The antenna doesn't care how it's modulated. **A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1218822736x1201267884/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID %3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62)
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
You've got to keep in mind the population densities here - all spread out. If we were talking about trying to blanket only 94,000 square miles of land, like the size of the UK, we probably wouldn't have any coverage difficulties either. That's about the size of the state of Michigan. Chuck - Original Message - From: Gordon 'Yeti' colttu...@omne.uk.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 4:39 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work We have pretty much complete coverage (even in hilly areas) with UHF transmitters (and lots of repeaters).
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
Each state is just like it's own country anyway - it's own laws, taxes, etc. Don't see why organising some radio transmitters seems like such a big deal - apart from that the US never made the jump to UHF, and buy the sounds of it, hasn't given itself proper preparation for Digital TV either. Don't see why someone who knows about radios should find it so difficult to understand that the channel number displayed isn't always the channel matching the frequency the transmission is actually on. Chuck Kelsey wrote: You've got to keep in mind the population densities here - all spread out. If we were talking about trying to blanket only 94,000 square miles of land, like the size of the UK, we probably wouldn't have any coverage difficulties either. That's about the size of the state of Michigan. Chuck - Original Message - From: Gordon 'Yeti' colttu...@omne.uk.net mailto:coltturbo%40omne.uk.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 4:39 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work We have pretty much complete coverage (even in hilly areas) with UHF transmitters (and lots of repeaters). No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1966 - Release Date: 02/22/09 17:21:00
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com From: n...@natetech.com Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 12:53:32 -0700 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work If it does take that long, then we're a country full of idiots, who probably need to watch less TV and read more books anyway. :-) Nate WY0X The scary thing is you are correct , I don't understand how hard some make it -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Milt Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 5:02 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work It will take at least a generation to straighten this mess out IF over the air television survives. Milt N3LTQ _ Get rid of those unwanted christmas presents! Get what you want at ebay. http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Frover%2Eebay%2Ecom%2Frover%2F1%2F705%2D10129%2D5668%2D323%2F4%3Fid%3D10_t=763807330_r=hotmailTAGLINES_m=EXT
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
All of this talk about DTV is irrelvent..because TV IS ONLY A FAD and IT WILL NEVER LAST ! Or at least that's what they said when it came about ...way back then. Just a little humor for the day . Ya'll have fun. Mike - Original Message - From: Barry To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 5:22 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work -- To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com From: n...@natetech.com Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 12:53:32 -0700 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work If it does take that long, then we're a country full of idiots, who probably need to watch less TV and read more books anyway. :-) Nate WY0X The scary thing is you are correct , I don't understand how hard some make it -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Milt Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 5:02 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work It will take at least a generation to straighten this mess out IF over the air television survives. Milt N3LTQ -- Get what you want at ebay. Get rid of those unwanted christmas presents!
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
How many more times do we have to read the same post? In a message dated 2/23/2009 3:43:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, wd8...@gmail.com writes: JOHN MACKEY wrote: If the digital is on a very different frequency, then the frequency change is a reason why digital reception may be problematic. For example, if you are using a VHF antenna to try to receive a UHF digital signal, that will be problematic. I should be able to use any normal TV antenna. If it works on analog Ch 7, for instance, it should work on digital ch 7. Period. If it doesn't, there is something inherently wrong with the medium. Again, RF is RF. The antenna doesn't care how it's modulated. **Get a jump start on your taxes. Find a tax professional in your neighborhood today. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=Tax+Return+Preparation+%26+Filingncid=emlcntusyelp0004)
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
Gordon 'Yeti' wrote: Each state is just like it's own country anyway - it's own laws, taxes, etc. Don't see why organising some radio transmitters seems like such a big deal What you are failing to recognize, is that coordination of adjacent states, channels, frequencies is a necessity otherwise, we'd have a hell of a mess. You don't see this in the UK, as it's about the same size as _one_ of our states, and you don't have any necessity of protecting against signals that go outside your Country with the exception of maybe the south-east. We have 48 contiguous states, and two others not physically joined coordinate with the federal government, so it isn't as easy as you might believe. Co-Channel has always been a big deal, and the problem has not gotten any better. In fact, it might have gotten worse. There aren't enough frequencies to ensure no interference to everyone. Kevin Custer List Owner
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
Digital Channel 7 may NOT be the same as Analog Channel 7. It is the frequency they are using that can be different. -- Original Message -- In a message dated 2/23/2009 5:08:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, wd8...@gmail.com writes: I should be able to use any normal TV antenna. If it works on analog Ch 7, for instance, it should work on digital ch 7. Period. If it doesn't, there is something inherently wrong with the medium. Again, RF is RF. The antenna doesn't care how it's modulated.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] MASTRII 100 watt PA question
Hello Eric, Thanks for the tip. Last night, the PA failed again. I went to the site and found that the problem is in the 10 watt PA stage, possibly the IC chip or the power control transistor. I brought it home and will look at it in more detail. The strange thing was that it came back to life yesterday, just like a bad connection would cause. 73, Joe, K1ike Eric Lemmon wrote: Joe, Use a magnifying glass to closely check every solder joint for cracks. Some such cracks appear due to temperature cycling over time. I have already had the same problem, where a PA was dead at the site but worked fine on the bench. It was around 40 degrees at the site, but around 70 at the bench. Sure enough, a tiny crack had opened on a PA power lead. Reflowing solder at that connection cured the problem. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
RE: [Repeater-Builder] MASTRII 100 watt PA question
I had one once that the power control IC seemed to be doing strange things. When we looked at it REAL closely, we noticed that the plastic case around the IC was bulged and split at the top -- best estimate was that it was lightning damage. Very hard to see at the site, easy on the workbench under a 100 watt bulb. :-) Since there's no good source for those IC's, we knew it was gone, but it got thrown in the junk parts box, in-case we ever needed something else off of it, and we swapped out that stage with another one from a different PA that had other problems downstream of that section, and away it went... Nate -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joe Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 5:29 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] MASTRII 100 watt PA question Hello Eric, Thanks for the tip. Last night, the PA failed again. I went to the site and found that the problem is in the 10 watt PA stage, possibly the IC chip or the power control transistor. I brought it home and will look at it in more detail. The strange thing was that it came back to life yesterday, just like a bad connection would cause. 73, Joe, K1ike Eric Lemmon wrote: Joe, Use a magnifying glass to closely check every solder joint for cracks. Some such cracks appear due to temperature cycling over time. I have already had the same problem, where a PA was dead at the site but worked fine on the bench. It was around 40 degrees at the site, but around 70 at the bench. Sure enough, a tiny crack had opened on a PA power lead. Reflowing solder at that connection cured the problem. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] MASTRII 100 watt PA question
Be suspicious of the power control pot first. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Joe k1ike_m...@snet.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 7:29 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] MASTRII 100 watt PA question Hello Eric, Thanks for the tip. Last night, the PA failed again. I went to the site and found that the problem is in the 10 watt PA stage, possibly the IC chip or the power control transistor. I brought it home and will look at it in more detail. The strange thing was that it came back to life yesterday, just like a bad connection would cause. 73, Joe, K1ike Eric Lemmon wrote: Joe, Use a magnifying glass to closely check every solder joint for cracks. Some such cracks appear due to temperature cycling over time. I have already had the same problem, where a PA was dead at the site but worked fine on the bench. It was around 40 degrees at the site, but around 70 at the bench. Sure enough, a tiny crack had opened on a PA power lead. Reflowing solder at that connection cured the problem. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] Part Number for Micor Mobile Connector (Harness End)
Does anybody have the part number for a Micor mobile connector (with backshell) handy? Is there another good source for these, or should I go directly to Motorola? I'm just trying to put together a quick and dirty test harness. 73, Mike WM4B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
Answer: All of them :) In a message dated 2/23/2009 2:48:00 P.M. Central Standard Time, demo...@rollanet.org writes: Reminds me of when the CB'ers in town ask me how many channels my ic-7000 has. Harsh =] Chris Kb0wlf **Get a jump start on your taxes. Find a tax professional in your neighborhood today. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=Tax+Return+Preparation+%26+Filingncid=emlcntusyelp0004)
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
Also reminds me of when I was *DUMB STUPID* in my earlier years of CB (before I got my ham license), and I asked on air for a radio check! Heh heh, I became very smart after a reply came back to me: How much money can we send you? Don, KD9PT - Original Message - From: radio5...@aol.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 7:29 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work Answer: All of them :) In a message dated 2/23/2009 2:48:00 P.M. Central Standard Time, demo...@rollanet.org writes: Reminds me of when the CB'ers in town ask me how many channels my ic-7000 has. Harsh =] Chris Kb0wlf -- Get a jump start on your taxes. Find a tax professional in your neighborhood today.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
At 09:47 2/23/2009, Chuck Kelsey wrote: There's the rub. People had TV that they could watch, that now goes away, forcing them to pay for cable or dish. Or move into civilization. It's all your own choice Or live without TV, lots of folks are opting for that. And at the prices they are charging, I am getting ready to live without pop music, but for each his own. Chuck - Original Message - Which shows again something that has been true all along, as hams well know: Spend your $$$ on the antenna.For UHF you are much better off if you are line of sight to the transmitter. If not, consider cable or a dish. Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1968 - Release Date: 02/23/09 18:22:00 -- Dave Gomberg, San Francisco NE5EE gomberg1 at wcf dot com All addresses, phones, etc. at http://www.wcf.com/ham/info.html -
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
I always answer, Mine's right here. :-) Nate WY0X From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Kupferschmidt Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 6:36 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work Also reminds me of when I was *DUMB STUPID* in my earlier years of CB (before I got my ham license), and I asked on air for a radio check! Heh heh, I became very smart after a reply came back to me: How much money can we send you? Don, KD9PT - Original Message - From: radio5...@aol.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 7:29 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work Answer: All of them :) In a message dated 2/23/2009 2:48:00 P.M. Central Standard Time, demo...@rollanet.org writes: Reminds me of when the CB'ers in town ask me how many channels my ic-7000 has. Harsh =] Chris Kb0wlf _ Get a jump start on your taxes. Find http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=Tax+Return+Preparation+%26+Filingn cid=emlcntusyelp0004 a tax professional in your neighborhood today.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
There was a problem in Florida with this. Channel 6 analog moved to UHF DTV and kept channel 6-1. the new channel 6 DTV apparently put themselves up as 6-1 (supposed to be a UHF channel number). Confused a lot of receivers for a while. Gerald Pelnar McPherson, Ks - Original Message - From: Joe k1ike_m...@snet.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 8:42 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work Only if they are on RF channel 7 after the switch. Some stations wanted to keep their identity, such as Channel 2, New York City. When they switch to HDTV they may call themselves Channel 2-1 but their RF frequency may be 33 or something else. Their Virtual Channel will be 2-1, but the RF channel will be 33-1. For example, your channel 5 WEWS analog will be going to RF channel 15. They will continue to use the Virtual Channel number 5-1 for identification. Look at: http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/ and plug in your Zip Code. Can the FCC make this just a little more confusing? 73, Joe, K1ike wd8chl wrote: I should be able to use any normal TV antenna. If it works on analog Ch 7, for instance, it should work on digital ch 7. Period. If it doesn't, there is something inherently wrong with the medium. Again, RF is RF. The antenna doesn't care how it's modulated. Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Part Number for Micor Mobile Connector (Harness End)
Mike, The radio-end connector is assembly 1V84307A89, which comprises three major components, as follows: 37-contact connector 9C84086B01 Front Housing 15D84044C01 or 15D84278A01 Rear Housing 15D84045C01 or 15D84279B01 Unfortunately, all five of the above parts are NLA from Motorola. Rather than risk the auction source, just call up one of the regular vendors- or even a local radio shop- and offer to buy just the radio end of a Micor cable with two feet or so of cable connected. I did that a few years ago and paid five bucks each, with free shipping. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Besemer (WM4B) Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 5:25 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Part Number for Micor Mobile Connector (Harness End) Does anybody have the part number for a Micor mobile connector (with backshell) handy? Is there another good source for these, or should I go directly to Motorola? I'm just trying to put together a quick and dirty test harness. 73, Mike WM4B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
On Mon, 23 Feb 2009, Don Kupferschmidt wrote: Also reminds me of when I was *DUMB STUPID* in my earlier years of CB (before I got my ham license), and I asked on air for a radio check! We still hear those today: Am I making it in? -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR Disinformation Analyst
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Part Number for Micor Mobile Connector (Harness End)
Thanks Eric! 73, Mike WM4B _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Lemmon Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 9:23 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Part Number for Micor Mobile Connector (Harness End) Mike, The radio-end connector is assembly 1V84307A89, which comprises three major components, as follows: 37-contact connector 9C84086B01 Front Housing 15D84044C01 or 15D84278A01 Rear Housing 15D84045C01 or 15D84279B01 Unfortunately, all five of the above parts are NLA from Motorola. Rather than risk the auction source, just call up one of the regular vendors- or even a local radio shop- and offer to buy just the radio end of a Micor cable with two feet or so of cable connected. I did that a few years ago and paid five bucks each, with free shipping. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Besemer (WM4B) Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 5:25 PM To: Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Part Number for Micor Mobile Connector (Harness End) Does anybody have the part number for a Micor mobile connector (with backshell) handy? Is there another good source for these, or should I go directly to Motorola? I'm just trying to put together a quick and dirty test harness. 73, Mike WM4B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
What channel are they actually on? Joe M. Gerald Pelnar wrote: There was a problem in Florida with this. Channel 6 analog moved to UHF DTV and kept channel 6-1. the new channel 6 DTV apparently put themselves up as 6-1 (supposed to be a UHF channel number). Confused a lot of receivers for a while. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Gerald Pelnar McPherson, Ks - Original Message - From: Joe k1ike_m...@snet.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 8:42 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work Only if they are on RF channel 7 after the switch. Some stations wanted to keep their identity, such as Channel 2, New York City. When they switch to HDTV they may call themselves Channel 2-1 but their RF frequency may be 33 or something else. Their Virtual Channel will be 2-1, but the RF channel will be 33-1. For example, your channel 5 WEWS analog will be going to RF channel 15. They will continue to use the Virtual Channel number 5-1 for identification. Look at: http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/ and plug in your Zip Code. Can the FCC make this just a little more confusing? 73, Joe, K1ike wd8chl wrote: I should be able to use any normal TV antenna. If it works on analog Ch 7, for instance, it should work on digital ch 7. Period. If it doesn't, there is something inherently wrong with the medium. Again, RF is RF. The antenna doesn't care how it's modulated. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
the new station is on 6 but supposed to ID with a UHF channel number. What channel are they actually on? Joe M. Gerald Pelnar wrote: There was a problem in Florida with this. Channel 6 analog moved to UHF DTV and kept channel 6-1. the new channel 6 DTV apparently put themselves up as 6-1 (supposed to be a UHF channel number). Confused a lot of receivers for a while.
[Repeater-Builder] CB operators, then and now
Way off topic. One comment then everyone please drop this thread?!?! In the '70's, you could ask for A Radio Check any time, on any channel, and someone would come back with their location, (10-20), signal strength, etc., . But that doesn't happen these days! I got back into radio for the first time in years... After listening through the cussing, etc., I asked for A simple radio check..Hey, first time I had this rig on the air at all...Can anyone tell me if I am getting out? I just about had to Cuss someone out to even respond, and all I got was, YeahI can hear you.Nothing about their 20, no idea if they were base or mobile, Nothing! A few weeks ago, I hooked that $35 CB radio into my 10 meter Inverted Vee antenna. That antenna was not even right for 10 meters, much less 11 meters (CB). I just was curious to see if it would even RX. It did. The first thing I heard on CB 19 was Road Rage?. 2 guys cussing at each other on the air saying stuff likeWell, follow me into this parking lot and we will have A fun time finding out who is right about that, etc, etc.. You had to have been there...I knew that cheap CB radio would not like it if I keyed the mic. I had NEVER checked SWR on that antenna...Like I really cared...The CB was about $35 NEW..and I can not stand what I hear on the CB bands anyway, so I am worried about the cost Again, you had to have been there. I keyed the CB Mic and broadcasted on CB (Legal so far as I know?)...I said this is (HAM Call Sign, Phonetically), Federally Licensed Radio OperatorThat is why I went to the HAM bands..You will NEVER hear HAMS picking A fight on those bands(HAM Call SignCLEAR!) CB Channel 19 was DEAD Quiet for over 5 minutes!! That was one you just had to be there to get it the way I mean it! Have you EVER heard CB 19 quiet for 5+ Minutes? Bruce in Texas KE5TPN On Mon, 23 Feb 2009, Don Kupferschmidt wrote: Also reminds me of when I was *DUMB STUPID* in my earlier years of CB (before I got my ham license), and I asked on air for a radio check! We still hear those today: Am I making it in? -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR Disinformation Analyst
[Repeater-Builder] Motorola Micor Power Supply - TLN5123B
I have a Micor power supply, that stopped working. I removed the power supply, currently no load on the bench. Back plane fuse - OK F3 - 13.8v fuse - OK,??? 0vac,? Voltage 4.7vdc before F3 F2 - 9.6v fuse - OK,? 0vac,? Voltage 2.2vdc before F2 F1 10 amp. opens if left powered on. I am able to measure the above voltages before F1 opens. With no AC power, I measured the resistance across TB1, (After temporally shorting to ground to remove any stored voltage, and opening F2, F3.), 15.3 ohms. There are not many components before F2, and F3. I guess the next components to check are CR1, CR2, CR3, CR4. Although, I have not seen many power supplies with C1 across one of the secondary, like Motorola P.S. It would be best to replace all four. Please send me your input, on?the likely faulty component(s) to check. Thanks for your emails. 73's,?? Jim??? Kh6jkg.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
Is this the reason for the move to UHF? Back when I lived in the city I never really saw much/any 'ghosting' on UHF stations, but horrible ghosting on some VHF (all the transmitters were within a couple miles of each other, so it wasn't an issue of transmitter/receiver site). Seems like if the signal is significantly more Fresnel sensitive, UHF would be a logical choice. I still don't understand the 'upgrade' for terrestrial HD. What should have happened was a push to satellite. There's plenty of spectrum and space in the Clark belt, and its easier to get a solid signal waving around a 18 Directv dish than it is to try to 'dx' in some HDTV in most circumstances (most RVers and truckers I know can peak-aim a single feed directv/dishnet dish in under 2 minutes) JS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater- buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Kelsey Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 9:38 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work Dynamic multipath interference, in which the delay and magnitude of reflections are rapidly changing, is particularly problematic for digital reception. While this just produces moving and changing ghost images for analog TV, it can render a digital signal impossible to decode. The 8VSB-based standards in use in North American ATSC broadcasts are particularly vulnerable to problems from dynamic multipath; this has the potential to severely limit mobile or portable use of digital television receivers. Solving the problem might require that different standards be adopted for mobile use. Chuck - Original Message - From: wd8chl wd8...@gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 9:10 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work JOHN MACKEY wrote: If the digital is on a very different frequency, then the frequency change is a reason why digital reception may be problematic. For example, if you are using a VHF antenna to try to receive a UHF digital signal, that will be problematic. I should be able to use any normal TV antenna. If it works on analog Ch 7, for instance, it should work on digital ch 7. Period. If it doesn't, there is something inherently wrong with the medium. Again, RF is RF. The antenna doesn't care how it's modulated. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola Micor Power Supply - TLN5123B
Jim, It took me a while to figure out what you have. TLN5123B is not the model of the power supply; it is the part number of the Chassis and Hardware Kit in a TPN1110B Power Supply. If your power supply blows the 10 ampere fuse F1 with no load connected to TB1 and both F2 and F3 pulled, you have greatly narrowed the possibilities. The most likely candidates, in order, are shorted CR1 or CR2, then shorted CR3 or CR4, and finally a shorted C1. If capacitor C1 is either open or shorted, the ferroresonant transformer cannot regulate properly. Note that more than 600 VAC appears across C1 during normal operation, and you must replace this capacitor with a similar unit designed for this application. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kh6...@netscape.net Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 8:36 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola Micor Power Supply - TLN5123B I have a Micor power supply, that stopped working. I removed the power supply, currently no load on the bench. Back plane fuse - OK F3 - 13.8v fuse - OK,0vac, Voltage 4.7vdc before F3 F2 - 9.6v fuse - OK, 0vac, Voltage 2.2vdc before F2 F1 10 amp. opens if left powered on. I am able to measure the above voltages before F1 opens. With no AC power, I measured the resistance across TB1, (After temporally shorting to ground to remove any stored voltage, and opening F2, F3.), 15.3 ohms. There are not many components before F2, and F3. I guess the next components to check are CR1, CR2, CR3, CR4. Although, I have not seen many power supplies with C1 across one of the secondary, like Motorola P.S. It would be best to replace all four. Please send me your input, on the likely faulty component(s) to check. Thanks for your emails. 73's, JimKh6jkg.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
I agree I have no idea what this has to do with repeaters, but with a good received you can receive a lot more. My parents live in this town called Middle-of-Nowhere, Michigan. Analog TV is horrible, few channels and all snow. DTV, using the digital receiver in the TV they get no less than 12 usable signals. Using a converter box seems to be an issue here, and since everyone seems to expect a $40 converter box to act like a $300 received, this seems to be the cause of the difference of opinion. On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 1:50 PM, Nate Duehr n...@natetech.com wrote: Guess you haven't talked to me. Mine's working great here… more channels on rabbit ears than ever. No, I'm not kidding. What this has got to do with REPEATERS I have no idea though… but I can make a guess or a suggestion that would put it back on-topic: Perhaps (just like in repeaters) buying the cheapest crappiest $40 hunk of junk receiver/converter box from god-knows-where-China, in a plastic non-shielded box, sitting on top of piles of home entertainment electronics, and feeding it with crappy feedline or shoddy connectors or old internal wiring that just isn't up to snuff, and the million other things that can affect reception of an RF signal -- isn't the way to go when attempting to receive DTV signals? The ironic thing is that my DTV receiver is in my DISH NETWORK box. Heh. I don't even really NEED it, but it's doing fine and adding a third source for the DVR from rabbit-ears… yup, plain old rabbit-ears, not amplified, not a good antenna for anything, let alone UHF. (The UHF portion is a circular loop. A spectacularly crap-tastic antenna performance-wise, as we all here know from our hobby.) I'm sure if I put an outside antenna on it with some gain, proper feedline, and a rotor to point it, it'd DX the Colorado Springs and Cheyenne WY transmitters, no problem at all. Rotor would just be for F/B ratio – might not even need it… point the thing at Cheyenne, and pick up COS off the back side… Consider the source when you're hearing that people are having trouble with DTV reception, and ask them if their converter box/receiver cost MORE than the free coupon. Free = you get what you pay for… just like everything else in RF – including repeaters. Someone else pointed out a couple of weeks ago that receiver sensitivity numbers and real-world tests are hard to come by on these things. There's manufacturer numbers, but who believes a manufacturer when they're talking about their own receivers? We're hams… we know how to make a receive antenna system work… but if the receiver is crud… Nate WY0X *From:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto: repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Barry *Sent:* Sunday, February 22, 2009 10:28 PM *To:* repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* RE: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work Virtually everybody I have talked to has had nothing but problems with DTV. Invariably they get fewer channels, and stations that are good to excellent in analog can frequently be unwatchable in digital.
