CORRECTION Re: [Repeater-Builder] (anderson power poles revisited)

[MCH]

I have to correct something I said. I forgot that while the PPs are 
genderless as far as the connectors go, the KEYWAYS are not, so half of 
the 16 configurations will not mate.

As such, there are only 8 configurations that will mate.
See the attached pic.
Number 1 is the ARES/RACES standard, BTW.

Still, a lot more than two.

So, Nate, willing to meet me half way???

Joe M.

MCH wrote:
> Quote (quoting you - which you deleted from the quotes): "Also just to 
> be accurate, there aren't "many" ways they can be configured, only two"
> 
> Quoting me (condensed): "Not exaxtly." "That's at least 16 ways to 
> configure them." That is a FACT, not opinion. I described 16 unique ways 
> they could be configured. If you require pictures, let me know.
> 
> And you say *I* just want to argue. I presented a fact which 
> contradicted your statement. I'm sorry if you don't like the facts, but 
> PP connectors CAN be configured in many more than two ways. If there 
> were only two, they would not have tabs on all four sides - they would 
> only have tabs on the one side of the red and the opposite side of the 
> black (I didn't say right or left because it would change depending on 
> the front/rear view), as that's all the ARES/RACES standard would 
> require. I would expect someone familiar with them to have realized 
> this, but I guess my expectations were too high in this case.
> 
> Power Poles have many more users than just the ham world. I even cited 
> one specifically (although their standard happens to match the 
> ARES/RACES standard). There are many other standards that use Power 
> Poles, and even many other colors that are available than black and red.
> 
> If you want to argue about how many done the right way configs there 
> are, the answer is one. Either way, your statement that there are "only 
> two" ways is not correct.
> 
> As I said, I use different configs for non-12V applications for the very 
> reason to differentiate them from the 12V ARES/RACES standard.
> 
> As was very accurately stated by someone else: You can't fix stupid. The 
> answer is to check before you connect - period.
> 
> Oh, and yes, I will argue with anyone who chooses to believe their 
> opinion over proven facts, as they will always be wrong. But, again, you 
> can't fix stupid, and I know there are people who have their own version 
> of reality.
> 
> Joe M.
> 
> Nate Duehr wrote:
>> On May 9, 2009, at 5:12 PM, MCH wrote:
>>
>>> Not exaxtly. With two colors (black and red) there is the standard  
>>> way,
>>> reversed standard, 90 degrees to the right both ways (stacked), and 90
>>> degrees to the left both ways (again, stacked, only reverse stacked).
>>> There are also eight more ways using "cross-polarization" between the
>>> two. That's at least 16 ways to configure them. With more colors the
>>> number of combinations goes up exponentially.
>> You just want to argue, as usual.
>>
>> There are ONLY TWO which can actually be PLUGGED INTO someone else's  
>> connector done the correct way, which was the whole point of the  
>> discussion.
>>
>> Anyone managing to get the top-over, or "cross-polarized" ways plugged  
>> into another connector "done right", used enough force that they'd  
>> deform the connector or a hammer.  They're also too stupid to be  
>> allowed to breed.  Darwin's suvival of the fittest in real-life action  
>> -- when they hook them up backwards to someone else's expensive gear  
>> and the other guy beats them silly, I suppose.
>>
>> Any group of people who are supposed to be a "technical resource" for  
>> the Country, per our FCC charter -- had better know how to hook up a  
>> damn 12VDC power connector, or at least know when they DON'T know what  
>> they're doing, and ask.  Or God forbid, break out a VOM and test...
>>
>> --
>> Nate Duehr, WY0X
>> n...@natetech.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
>> Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.23/2106 - Release Date: 05/09/09 
>> 06:54:00
>>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
<>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] (anderson power poles revisited)

[MCH]

Quote (quoting you - which you deleted from the quotes): "Also just to 
be accurate, there aren't "many" ways they can be configured, only two"

Quoting me (condensed): "Not exaxtly." "That's at least 16 ways to 
configure them." That is a FACT, not opinion. I described 16 unique ways 
they could be configured. If you require pictures, let me know.

And you say *I* just want to argue. I presented a fact which 
contradicted your statement. I'm sorry if you don't like the facts, but 
PP connectors CAN be configured in many more than two ways. If there 
were only two, they would not have tabs on all four sides - they would 
only have tabs on the one side of the red and the opposite side of the 
black (I didn't say right or left because it would change depending on 
the front/rear view), as that's all the ARES/RACES standard would 
require. I would expect someone familiar with them to have realized 
this, but I guess my expectations were too high in this case.

Power Poles have many more users than just the ham world. I even cited 
one specifically (although their standard happens to match the 
ARES/RACES standard). There are many other standards that use Power 
Poles, and even many other colors that are available than black and red.

If you want to argue about how many done the right way configs there 
are, the answer is one. Either way, your statement that there are "only 
two" ways is not correct.

As I said, I use different configs for non-12V applications for the very 
reason to differentiate them from the 12V ARES/RACES standard.

As was very accurately stated by someone else: You can't fix stupid. The 
answer is to check before you connect - period.

Oh, and yes, I will argue with anyone who chooses to believe their 
opinion over proven facts, as they will always be wrong. But, again, you 
can't fix stupid, and I know there are people who have their own version 
of reality.

Joe M.

Nate Duehr wrote:
> On May 9, 2009, at 5:12 PM, MCH wrote:
> 
>> Not exaxtly. With two colors (black and red) there is the standard  
>> way,
>> reversed standard, 90 degrees to the right both ways (stacked), and 90
>> degrees to the left both ways (again, stacked, only reverse stacked).
>> There are also eight more ways using "cross-polarization" between the
>> two. That's at least 16 ways to configure them. With more colors the
>> number of combinations goes up exponentially.
> 
> You just want to argue, as usual.
> 
> There are ONLY TWO which can actually be PLUGGED INTO someone else's  
> connector done the correct way, which was the whole point of the  
> discussion.
> 
> Anyone managing to get the top-over, or "cross-polarized" ways plugged  
> into another connector "done right", used enough force that they'd  
> deform the connector or a hammer.  They're also too stupid to be  
> allowed to breed.  Darwin's suvival of the fittest in real-life action  
> -- when they hook them up backwards to someone else's expensive gear  
> and the other guy beats them silly, I suppose.
> 
> Any group of people who are supposed to be a "technical resource" for  
> the Country, per our FCC charter -- had better know how to hook up a  
> damn 12VDC power connector, or at least know when they DON'T know what  
> they're doing, and ask.  Or God forbid, break out a VOM and test...
> 
> --
> Nate Duehr, WY0X
> n...@natetech.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.23/2106 - Release Date: 05/09/09 
> 06:54:00
> 

RE: [Repeater-Builder] (anderson power poles revisited)

[Daron Wilson]

>My experience in industrial wiring with  lugs,
>down to avionics connectors apparently doesn't matter.

Nope, this is a different kind of connector.

>You must buy the connectors and a specific
>crimp tool from only one manufacturer

This is fairly common on many products actually.

>There is no plug/socket, but a genderless configuration
>that allows you to plug any wire into any wire. You
>can even plug + into -, unless you rely on a visual
>inspection to align the connectors and match colors,
>or have a special panel mounted connector that
>physically blocks it.

Uh..if you can't inspect the connection and match the configuration to mate
them, prolly best to stand back and let someone else plug the device in.  If
the housing are matched and glued together, you can do it in the dark, it
won't go in backwards.

>You can even connect two radios to each other, or
>two batteries to each other, unless the cables
>are correctly marked and attention is paid when
>connecting. Adequate lighting, excellent color vision,
>and patient, clear thinking are always present in
>an emergency situation.

The danger of damage by hooking two radios together is...well none.  I
totally appreciate the genderless connection, I routinely connect my gell
cells packs to the power supply or my vehicle to charge, perfect use of this
genderless plug.

>You must glue a pair of connector housings together,
>or use a roll pin that may vibrate out and,
>appropriately, roll around, to seek its Murphy
>fulfillment.

Actually about 10% of mine are glued, rarely is it an issue, but it is
convenient to prevent accidental misconfiguration by the untrained.  Many
connectors require special techniques, it is hardly an issue to drop a bit
of glue in the mix during construction.

>To prevent a tug from parting mated connectors,
>you must use a cable tie or purchase clips or clamps.

Yes, generally this is an advantage for me, it makes reconfiguring and
changing quick and easy without having to pry the connector apart. 

>The "standard" has 15, 30, and 45 Amp rated contacts.

Yup, just like the 'standard' crimp lug terminals are available for
different wire gauges and molex pins come in different sizes for different
gauges, pretty hard to be universal for all wire sizes and current
abilities.

>It's still a whole lot better than those blasted
>cigarette lighter plugs! :)

Indeed.

Re: [Repeater-Builder] (anderson power poles revisited)

[Mike Naruta AA8K]

One more.  Let me play Devil's advocate.


My mistake was buying terminals from a fellow ham
who bought in quantity.  I also made a mistake
when I soldered some and used a crimp tool on
others.  My crimp tool did not expand the barrel,
and the terminal still pushed freely into the housing.
My experience in industrial wiring with  lugs,
down to avionics connectors apparently doesn't matter.


The advantages of the connectors are:


You must buy the connectors and a specific
crimp tool from only one manufacturer

You only need to buy one type of terminal, but
two different types of housing, red and black.

There is no plug/socket, but a genderless configuration
that allows you to plug any wire into any wire.  You
can even plug + into -, unless you rely on a visual
inspection to align the connectors and match colors,
or have a special panel mounted connector that
physically blocks it.

You can even connect two radios to each other, or
two batteries to each other, unless the cables
are correctly marked and attention is paid when
connecting.  Adequate lighting, excellent color vision,
and patient, clear thinking are always present in
an emergency situation.

You must glue a pair of connector housings together,
or use a roll pin that may vibrate out and,
appropriately, roll around, to seek its Murphy
fulfillment.

To prevent a tug from parting mated connectors,
you must use a cable tie or purchase clips or clamps.

The "standard" has 15, 30, and 45 Amp rated contacts.



It's still a whole lot better than those blasted
cigarette lighter plugs!   :)

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Spectra RX sensitivity questions

[Mark]

Thanks!

Unfortunately, I do not have board layout or schematic diagrams with which
to locate the parts you referenced - can you send me a scan or photo of a
board indicating where the diodes might be?  I also assume the RF amp/mixer
transistor is somewhere else, yes?

Mark - N9WYS
n9wys <(at)> ameritech <(dot)> net

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com  On Behalf Of motarolla_doctor

Yes there have been many 900 Spectras over the years that exhibit poor
receive sensitivity. Check the Rx/Tx antenna switch diodes. The receive
shunting diode may be shorted. This is caused by high reflected power.

The RF amp/mixer transistor goes soft and looses gain.


"Mark"  wrote:
>
> I have a Spectra converted for operation on the amateur portion of the 900
> MHz band.  This thing seems to be somewhat deaf - it barely opens
squelch..

RE: [Repeater-Builder] (anderson power poles revisited)

[Daron Wilson]

I've enjoyed the power pole debate, somewhat.  The simple answer is that no
one solution fits every installation the best.  

 

The power pole is a great 'solution' for many installations, and is probably
the hands down best for 'interoperability'.  I have migrated almost
everything to power poles, even the 'permanent' vehicle installations
because often I want to pull a radio out for some event or whatever, and it
is just damn easy.

 

Yes, you can put them together backwards from the published and accepted
standard, just as you can almost any other connector that you insert pins
and wires in (i.e. molex).  As the saying goes, you can't fix stupid.

 

Yes, they do not have the ability to stay connected under considerable pull
on the wire.  Thank God.  For the times I've fought and pulled on molex
plugs trying to dislodge them without messing up the little plastic tab or
pulling the wires out of the pins, I enjoy the simplicity of the power pole.

 

Yes, they can become separated and reassembled in a non standard way if care
is not taken, remember, you can't fix stupid.

 

Yes, they require care (selection of the proper size pin for the wire, use
of a professional crimping tool, and possibly soldering on high current
applications) but with proper installation they yield a good solution.

 

Yes, they are genderless, which is friggin awesome in the world of trying to
make up cables, extensions, adapters, splitters, etc. for portable/emcomm
use.  

 

Yes, there are ready made splitters, distributions busses, fused panels,
etc. available which are invaluable in the emcomm tool box to take to the
field.  I take every 12v cig lighter type cord I get (DVD player, phone
charger, spot light, etc.) and immediately snip it and insert power poles.
It works fine if needed for the accessory plug (cig adapter) but can quickly
be disconnected and put onto any power pole situation.

 

So, here is my summary:

 

1.  Assemble the housings in the standard RACES/ARES configuration,
adding a drop of your Krazy glue or similar prior to sliding them together.
The roll pin that is available causes the housing to spread and doesn't do
as good of a job.

2.  Crimp the PROPER sized connector for the wire used with the correct
crimping tool.  Careful soldering on high current applications may decrease
the micro resistance in the crimp, and will keep corrosion from increasing
the resistance.

3.  Push the pin in the housing until it clicks properly into place, tug
firmly to be sure the pin is latched in place and wire is secure.

4.  If you join a pair and are afraid it might come lose, either use the
clip to secure them together or wrap a skinny wire tie around them to make
sure they don't come lose.

5.  We once did a voltage drop test and even at 25 amps, it was very
negligible.  Seems to me the technician compared it with the molex
equivalent and used quality test gear to measure.  After that, he converted
over to them when he was sure they were of good quality.

 

We've converted two repeater sites over to rigrunner fused distribution
panels, and made fitted all the radios systems with power poles.  No
failures, no over heating, no weakness that we've seen yet.  And service is
easy, pull the equipment out of the rack, sit it on the workbench where we
have power pole distribution from the power supply and fire it up.

 

Simply..if you don't like them, they don't use them.  No one is forcing you,
stick with your molex plug or what have you and enjoy!  Our two portable
emergency repeaters are equipped with them as well.  Every power supply I
have on the shelf for loan or test has a pigtail on it with power poles, it
is just simple and fast.

 

Enjoy!

 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] (anderson power poles revisited)

[Nate Duehr]

On May 9, 2009, at 5:12 PM, MCH wrote:

> Not exaxtly. With two colors (black and red) there is the standard  
> way,
> reversed standard, 90 degrees to the right both ways (stacked), and 90
> degrees to the left both ways (again, stacked, only reverse stacked).
> There are also eight more ways using "cross-polarization" between the
> two. That's at least 16 ways to configure them. With more colors the
> number of combinations goes up exponentially.

You just want to argue, as usual.

There are ONLY TWO which can actually be PLUGGED INTO someone else's  
connector done the correct way, which was the whole point of the  
discussion.

Anyone managing to get the top-over, or "cross-polarized" ways plugged  
into another connector "done right", used enough force that they'd  
deform the connector or a hammer.  They're also too stupid to be  
allowed to breed.  Darwin's suvival of the fittest in real-life action  
-- when they hook them up backwards to someone else's expensive gear  
and the other guy beats them silly, I suppose.

Any group of people who are supposed to be a "technical resource" for  
the Country, per our FCC charter -- had better know how to hook up a  
damn 12VDC power connector, or at least know when they DON'T know what  
they're doing, and ask.  Or God forbid, break out a VOM and test...

--
Nate Duehr, WY0X
n...@natetech.com

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Spectra RX sensitivity questions

[motarolla_doctor]

Yes there have been many 900 Spectras over the years that exhibit poor receive 
sensitivity. Check the Rx/Tx antenna switch diodes. The receive shunting diode 
may be shorted. This is caused by high reflected power.

The RF amp/mixer transistor goes soft and looses gain.


"Mark"  wrote:
>
> I have a Spectra converted for operation on the amateur portion of the 900
> MHz band.  This thing seems to be somewhat deaf - it barely opens squelch..

Re: [Repeater-Builder] (anderson power poles revisited)

[MCH]

Not exaxtly. With two colors (black and red) there is the standard way, 
reversed standard, 90 degrees to the right both ways (stacked), and 90 
degrees to the left both ways (again, stacked, only reverse stacked). 
There are also eight more ways using "cross-polarization" between the 
two. That's at least 16 ways to configure them. With more colors the 
number of combinations goes up exponentially.

BUT, there is only one standard way using the "ARRL standard" (which BTW 
also happens to be E. F. Johnson's standard long before the ARRL adopted 
it). Anyone connecting them wrong isn't looking before connecting. No 
matter what you say, anything can be wired wrong with not too much 
effort. Motorola plugs are polarized, but I've seen them connected up 
backwards, too. In fact, with polarized plugs there is more of a chance 
with cross-polarization when it comes to adapters because you're MORE 
likely to not pay attention to the polarity because they are promoted as 
being much more 'idiot proof'. You see, the exposed connection on a 
Motorola plug changes depending if it's on the source or load side of 
the plug while the Power Pole doesn't matter - it's the same on both sides.

The lack of polarity means you only need one type of plug (in two colors 
if you like) rather than two types of plugs. That is a distinct 
advantage when it comes to carrying spares.

When I wire something up using PPs for something other than 12V, I 
always make sure to avoid the 12V standard just for that reason - so it 
doesn't get confused and plugged into 12V.

Joe M.

Nate Duehr wrote:
> Also just to be accurate, there aren't "many" ways they can be  
> configured, only two.

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: (anderson power poles revisited)

[Martin A Flynn]

Mike,
After posting, I rigged up my  Fluke 199C  (200MHz) to the audio 
generator through the powerpole connector..  I beat the heck out of the 
connector to see if there would be any artifacts.  I saw nothing.  

If your HP scope is faster, I'll ship the pigtails to you for a sanity 
check.

Martin. 

Mike Morris WA6ILQ wrote:
>
> Where are you located? I have a portable HP storage scope.
>
> Mike WA6ILQ
>
> At 06:21 PM 05/08/09, you wrote:
> >I have the factory Anderson Power Products 1309G2 crimper and legit
> >APP parts. I just built a two pole loop connector & hung 4# from
> >the loop with no separation. It did separate with a 5# weight.
> >
> >Rebuilt the rig to feed a 2600HZ tone to the left channel of the
> >sound card though a pair of 15 amp connectors, the same source was
> >fed directly to the right.
> >
> >I recorded 60 seconds of audio while holding a jitterbug sander to
> >the connector. The audio looks exactly in both channels when
> >played back with audacity.
> >
> >Anyone have a decent storage scope to repeat the test with? I will
> >ship the power pole connector pigtails to your location if you want
> >to repeat & publish the results.
> >
> >Martin
> >
>

[Repeater-Builder] Spectra RX sensitivity questions

[Mark]

I have a Spectra converted for operation on the amateur portion of the 900
MHz band.  This thing seems to be somewhat deaf - it barely opens squelch
while the same signal on a GTX (either handheld or mobile) is much stronger,
and when squelch is open, the signal; is markedly "weaker".  Is there
something I can do in software (i.e., alignment) to improve the RX
sensitivity, or is this a filter issue, or what?  Mine is not the only one I
am aware of that exhibits this problem.

Thanks,
Mark - N9WYS 

RE: [Repeater-Builder] (Anderson Power Poles revisited)

[Eric Lemmon]

Actually, West Mountain Radio has already created a de facto standard that
just happens to agree with the practice used by many ARES and RACES groups.
If you buy any of the Rig Runner or other DC power management products, they
will be configured  to this standard polarization as shown here:


To avoid assembling the PowerPole connector shells wrong, I take the time to
super-glue the red and black halves in advance, so that my entire stock of
connectors is ready to crimp, insert, and go.  Whenever I get a new radio, I
cut off the original power connector and replace it with the standard
PowerPole.  A local ARES group has adopted this practice, so there is never
a delay in setting up an emergency station.

I have no financial interest in West Mountain Radio; I am simply a satisfied
customer.

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY


-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nate Duehr
Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 11:30 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] (anderson power poles revisited)


On May 9, 2009, at 6:40 AM, Chuck Kelsey wrote:

> To me it seems odd that a connector designed for DC power isn't 
> polarized.
> Yes, there is a loose standard out there, but the two halves can be
> configured several ways.

The standard's not very "loose"... if you buy just about any pre-made 
"power strips" or other devices, they'll all be the same. I have a 
couple "power strip" type things (one has a nice LED VOM and both a 
high and low-voltage cutoff, which is great) and if I configure 
everything so they'll plug into those, all is well.

Also just to be accurate, there aren't "many" ways they can be 
configured, only two.

> Again, I understand that certain uses may dictate
> different configurations, but it does open the door to some destroyed
> equipment when someone hastily plugs in someone else's equipment 
> that had
> the connector backwards.

Hastiness isn't a sign of someone whom you'd want touching your rigs 
anyway? :-)

> I will probably pick up an Anderson crimper and continue to use the
> connectors. The ones I purchased came from Power Werx. They claim 
> that they
> are honest-to-goodness Anderson products, not imitations.

Definitely give it a try.

Just trying to "keep it real", since there's a lot of hocus-pocus out 
there about PowerPoles, much of it due to the afore-mentioned "haste" 
you mentioned.

(It's also why I *usually* stay out of PowerPole discussions in 
general anymore. More "heat" than "light" in most of the online 
discussions about them.)

--
Nate Duehr, WY0X
n...@natetech.com  

Re: [Repeater-Builder] (anderson power poles revisited)

[Nate Duehr]

On May 9, 2009, at 6:40 AM, Chuck Kelsey wrote:

> To me it seems odd that a connector designed for DC power isn't  
> polarized.
> Yes, there is a loose standard out there, but the two halves can be
> configured several ways.

The standard's not very "loose"... if you buy just about any pre-made  
"power strips" or other devices, they'll all be the same.  I have a  
couple "power strip" type things (one has a nice LED VOM and both a  
high and low-voltage cutoff, which is great) and if I configure  
everything so they'll plug into those, all is well.

Also just to be accurate, there aren't "many" ways they can be  
configured, only two.

> Again, I understand that certain uses may dictate
> different configurations, but it does open the door to some destroyed
> equipment when someone hastily plugs in someone else's equipment  
> that had
> the connector backwards.

Hastiness isn't a sign of someone whom you'd want touching your rigs  
anyway? :-)

> I will probably pick up an Anderson crimper and continue to use the
> connectors. The ones I purchased came from Power Werx. They claim  
> that they
> are honest-to-goodness Anderson products, not imitations.

Definitely give it a try.

Just trying to "keep it real", since there's a lot of hocus-pocus out  
there about PowerPoles, much of it due to the afore-mentioned "haste"  
you mentioned.

(It's also why I *usually* stay out of PowerPole discussions in  
general anymore.  More "heat" than "light" in most of the online  
discussions about them.)

--
Nate Duehr, WY0X
n...@natetech.com

Re: [Repeater-Builder] 450 Micor Repeator Amp

[Captainlance]

yes, no problems.Just keep the drive between 1.5 and 2 watts, with the power 
set adjusted for 80 watts or less at the antenna port...

Lance N2HBA
  - Original Message - 
  From: k0jxi 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 12:52 PM
  Subject: [Repeater-Builder] 450 Micor Repeator Amp





  I am sure this has been asked before but I could not find any comprehensive 
links.

  Will the Motorola 450 to 470 75 watt Micor Repeater Amp TLE1713A work safely 
in the ham band on TX of 444.900. Most of my experience is with GE and not 
Motorola.

  Appreciate any advice.

  Dale, K0JXI



  


--



  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
  Version: 8.5.325 / Virus Database: 270.12.23/2106 - Release Date: 05/09/09 
06:54:00

[Repeater-Builder] 450 Micor Repeator Amp

[k0jxi]

I am sure this has been asked before but I could not find any comprehensive 
links.

Will the Motorola 450 to 470 75 watt Micor Repeater Amp TLE1713A work safely in 
the ham band on TX of 444.900. Most of my experience is with GE and not 
Motorola.

Appreciate any advice.

Dale, K0JXI

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: (anderson power poles revisited)

[Mike Morris WA6ILQ]

Where are you located?  I have a portable HP storage scope.

Mike WA6ILQ

At 06:21 PM 05/08/09, you wrote:
>I have the factory Anderson Power Products 1309G2 crimper and legit 
>APP parts.  I just built a two pole loop connector & hung 4# from 
>the loop with no separation.  It did separate with a 5# weight.
>
>Rebuilt the rig to feed a 2600HZ tone to the left channel of the 
>sound card though a pair of 15 amp connectors, the same source was 
>fed directly to the right.
>
>I recorded 60 seconds of audio while holding a jitterbug sander to 
>the connector.   The audio looks exactly in both channels when 
>played back with audacity.
>
>Anyone have a decent storage scope to repeat the test with?  I will 
>ship the power pole connector pigtails to your location if you want 
>to repeat & publish the results.
>
>Martin
>
>
>--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Kelsey"  wrote:
> >
> > Whatever Power Werks sells.
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> >
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "MCH" 
> > To: 
> > Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 4:53 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] (anderson power poles revisited)
> >
> >
> > > Were the really Power Poles or some knockoff? Some of the 'cheap ones'
> > > are just that.
> > >
> > > I've seen trouble with all, but in every case it was due to not
> > > following the proper installation instructions or not using the correct
> > > tools. Most of the times it was due to the wrong crimp tool being used.
> > > The correct ones are not cheap, but they do work well. When installed
> > > correctly, I've never had a problem, and I've been using them for over
> > > 25 years (and many in service for that long as well).
> > >
> > > Joe M.
> > >
> > > Chuck Kelsey wrote:
> > >> I've had them unplug easily. Had another that if you wiggled 
> it, it would
> > >> make and break contact. I solder all mine, taking care not to 
> get solder
> > >> on
> > >> the contact itself.
> > >>
> > >> I went to them after having trouble with some heavy-duty Molex 
> connectors
> > >> ( one contact got hot and discolored the shell) and, no, I was not
> > >> exceeding
> > >> the current carrying capacity of the connector.
> > >>
> > >> As far as using the smaller PowerPoles as a "standard" to 
> insure multiple
> > >> operators radios being compatible with each other, I find a connector
> > >> that
> > >> can be configured multiple ways (like the PowerPole can) to be a poor
> > >> choice
> > >> for that purpose.
> > >>
> > >> Chuck
> > >> WB2EDV
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> - Original Message -
> > >> From: "MCH" 
> > >> To: 
> > >> Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 2:18 PM
> > >> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] (anderson power poles revisited)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> Can you (either of you) specify what exactly is coming apart on them?
> > >>>
> > >>> Joe M.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> 
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > 
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: A Home Brew 224 MHz Repeater Project. - (anderson power poles revisited)

[Mike Morris WA6ILQ]

I had the same problem with the ones I bought from
an eBay seller.

Once I went to the real Anderson power poles that
the problems went away.  The chinese made ones
slide together, the real Andersons snap together.

I had a friend of mine buy me a small stash of the
real ones from K7WWG (http://www.dcpwr.com)
at a convention up in Oregon a while back.

And there is a simple way to keep both the chinese
ones and the Andersons from coming apart - look
at this drawing by W6HK (the one that has been
copied by a lot of folks):

That page is worth bookmarking - it has a good
drawing and all the part numbers.

I use super glue instead of the roll pin to secure the
red and black bodies together. In fact, I have been
known to glue up a half dozen plug body sets long
before I use them - it saves a step later on, and by
doing them all at the same time they are correct.

Using the glue leaves the roll pin hole open.  I cut
a piece of coathanger wire, then after bending into
a shallow U-shape, I file the ends round.  When
the legs are bent just a little more than parallel the
wire serves as a clip to snap together two pairs
of powerpoles.

Or just use a piece of solid hookup wire as a
twist-tie to hold the pairs together.

As a final comment, I use the 15a or 30 a contacts
(which ever is appropriate) on the cord that connects
to the load (15a contacts on 16 ga wire or 30a
contacts and 12ga wire).   The extension cords and
the battery taps get 10ga wire and the 45a contacts.

Mike WA6ILQ


At 10:19 AM 05/08/09, you wrote:

>Hi Martin,
>
>I normally would crimp and solder the wire into the small
>power pole connectors at fixed station (not moving and
>vibrating) locations.
>
>The intermittent was the contact(s).  The contact pressure
>wasn't consistent and the finger "tong" would bend with
>simple force.
>
>After the second extra long service call drive to find
>the intermittent power connection (wiggle to restore power),
>I jerked them all out and never looked back.
>
>Don't have the problems with the larger power pole
>connectors... just the smaller ones that tend to be popular
>with the Amateur Radio (Ham) crowd.
>
>cheers
>skipp
>
> > "rahwayflynn"  wrote:
> > Re your problem with the Power Pole Connectors:  Was the
> > contact itself intermittent or the wire / contact crimp?
> >
> > I have yet to have a prblem with them in DC service, however
> > for signal and data, I generally use Amp CPC series.
> >
> > Martin
>
>
> > > "skipp025"  wrote:
> > >
> > > I stopped using small Anderson Power Pole connectors
> > > because of all the grief they caused me on the commercial
> > > radio side of my life. A lot of people like and use them but
> > > I don't trust or use them anymore after a few 10 hour days
> > > sourced back to intermittent small power-pole connectors.

[Repeater-Builder] Two questions

[w4sef]

Hi all,

I am new at the GE Mastr II gameIs there a point on the receiver board 
where I can tap off to get an S meter reading? I would like to be able to 
monitor the signal incoming. Also, be able to see if there is any rise in meter 
reading with no signal coming in to check for desense with the transmit on and 
off. I had a Micor and knew where to tap the second limiter for a meter reading 
on signals but can not find the right place on the Mastr II.

Also, I am using the Pion Controller board. I love the controller but I can NOT 
get it to transmit the CTCSS tone. I have tried every setting I can think of 
using the computer to program it but no luck. It will DECODE fine but will NOT 
send the tone! Any ideas?

Thanks
Steve W4SEF

[Repeater-Builder] Re: A Home Brew 224 MHz Repeater Project. - (anderson power poles revisited)

[skipp025]

re: Anderson Power Poles Revisited

Hi John, 

I didn't have a problem with the mated connectors pulling 
apart although without the "locking hardware" I suppose that 
could be another problem. 

My issue is with the tongue contact pressure of two mated 
connectors. The metal quality is not good enough to ensure 
the tongue contacts retain enough force to reliably stay 
in touch with each other in high current applications. 

I have tried all the standard methods... ie solder, crimp 
and a combination of both. 

Not an obvious problem with the larger Power-Pole type 
connectors but in my case certainly a problem I needed to 
deal with. So I removed them from the paths and that gremlin 
portion of my live went poof (gone). 

I have the same miss trust of Molex Connectors in high 
current applications. 

See you at Dayton? 

cheers, 
skipp 

> "John J. Riddell"  wrote:
>
> Skipp, I had some (small connectors) that were made by 
> TYCO and they seemed to have a much better spring in 
> them and it took a lot more force to pull them apart.
> I suspect that soldering them may cause some of the 
> problem, so I now have the "proper' crimp tool.
> When you solder them the solder tends to "wick" back 
> in the wire making the connection much stiffer.
> John VE3AMZ

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: A Home Brew 224 MHz Repeater Project. - (anderson power poles revisited)

[John J. Riddell]

Skipp, I had some (small connectors) that were made by TYCO and they seemed 
to have a much
better spring in them and it took a lot more force to pull them apart.
I suspect that soldering them may cause some of the problem, so I now have 
the
"proper' crimp tool.
When you solder them the solder tends to "wick" back in the wire making the
connection much stiffer.


John VE3AMZ



- Original Message - 
From: "skipp025" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 1:19 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: A Home Brew 224 MHz Repeater Project. - 
(anderson power poles revisited)


>
> Hi Martin,
>
> I normally would crimp and solder the wire into the small
> power pole connectors at fixed station (not moving and
> vibrating) locations.
>
> The intermittent was the contact(s).  The contact pressure
> wasn't consistent and the finger "tong" would bend with
> simple force.
>
> After the second extra long service call drive to find
> the intermittent power connection (wiggle to restore power),
> I jerked them all out and never looked back.
>
> Don't have the problems with the larger power pole
> connectors... just the smaller ones that tend to be popular
> with the Amateur Radio (Ham) crowd.
>
> cheers
> skipp
>
>> "rahwayflynn"  wrote:
>> Re your problem with the Power Pole Connectors:  Was the
>> contact itself intermittent or the wire / contact crimp?
>>
>> I have yet to have a prblem with them in DC service, however
>> for signal and data, I generally use Amp CPC series.
>>
>> Martin
>
>
>> > "skipp025"  wrote:
>> >
>> > I stopped using small Anderson Power Pole connectors
>> > because of all the grief they caused me on the commercial
>> > radio side of my life. A lot of people like and use them but
>> > I don't trust or use them anymore after a few 10 hour days
>> > sourced back to intermittent small power-pole connectors.
>> >
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] (anderson power poles revisited)

[Chuck Kelsey]

I went to the Anderson site and found the installation instructions. They do 
recommend crimping the connection, but then do go on to discuss soldering. 
So, I will agree that crimping, with the proper tool, would be the best 
choice for reliable operation and is what the manufacturer recommends. 
However, if installation is really that critical, the connector is probably 
not the right choice for the average person.

I also see that Anderson makes a "retention clip" to secure the mated 
connectors together. To me this indicates that there have been issues with 
connectors coming loose. I'm not surprised, but the connector is what it is. 
Everyone knows that there is no locking mechanism, aside from this accessory 
clip, so maybe it is the wrong connector for many applications.
>From the Power Werx site: "Secure your Powerpole connections in the field, 
shack or mobile installations. These Retention Clips are easy to use and 
should always be on hand if the chance of Powerpole separation may exist."

To me it seems odd that a connector designed for DC power isn't polarized. 
Yes, there is a loose standard out there, but the two halves can be 
configured several ways. Again, I understand that certain uses may dictate 
different configurations, but it does open the door to some destroyed 
equipment when someone hastily plugs in someone else's equipment that had 
the connector backwards.

I will probably pick up an Anderson crimper and continue to use the 
connectors. The ones I purchased came from Power Werx. They claim that they 
are honest-to-goodness Anderson products, not imitations.

Chuck
WB2EDV



- Original Message - 
From: "Nate Duehr" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 3:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] (anderson power poles revisited)


> See if you can find someone with the proper crimp tool and look
> carefully at the HEIGHT of the resulting connection.  I, like others
> here -- but I was trying to stay out of it, since PowerPole
> discussions always lead a little bit to the "religious debate" side of
> things, vs. the technical -- haven't had ANY problems with PowerPoles,
> but I make sure the seller is selling the real-deal by brand name, and
> not knock-offs, and I use the big/proper crimp tool to make the
> connections.
>
> When you solder them, the most common failure/problem I've seen is
> that the connection stays as "tall" as the wire gauge, and if you can
> get a good look at a properly crimped one, they're "shorter".  When
> the inner connector pieces are too tall, there's no "play" for the
> connector to "lock/click" into the internal spring, and there's no way
> for the spring to "push" on the connector, holding it together at the
> "hump".  My opinion, anyway...
>
> I've used Powerpoles in my VHF+ "rover"/mobile station exclusively,
> and I've only ever had ONE disconnect during bouncy dirt roads in a
> Jeep.  The PowerPole "bar" is mounted horizontally so that the
> connectors are ALWAYS hanging sideways, and the wire pulls on them,
> and they stay in fine for the weekend of driving...
>
> PowerPoles fall into the same category as anything RF or DC that
> Amphenol makes, I think.  Lots of knock-offs, but only with the
> original Anderson product, and the correct tools, do they seem to
> always work fine for my purposes.
>
> Ask your vendor if they're using the real-deal, and not a knock-off,
> and get a look at a connection made with the big/real crimp tool.
> (Not even the little pliers that some vendors sell really do it right.)
>
> --
> Nate Duehr, WY0X
> n...@natetech.com

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Identify a coax and possible connector vendor

[Jim Brown]

I have successfully used standard 50 Ohm type N connectors on 75 Ohm CATV 
coax.  I purchased some brass tubing from a hobby shop that fit the ID of the 
center pin of the 50 Ohm connector and sweat soldered a short piece to the 
copper clad center conductor on the coax.  With this modification the normal 50 
Ohm connectors fit the 75 Ohm cable and work just fine.

73 - Jim  W5ZIT 

--- On Fri, 5/8/09, N3QAM  wrote:
From: N3QAM 
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Identify a coax and possible connector 
vendor
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, May 8, 2009, 9:45 AM
















  
  


There  is a whole write up on the net 
somewhere on how to use the 75 ohm hardline connectors and covert them to a 
n conector or pl-259 with pics  . If you need any let me know as i am a 
line tech for a cable company . Unfotunetly it will be hard for me to core the 
cable for you to install the connectors unless you are close by. If you get to 
that point , i would suggest going to the local office of your cable company ( 
not a payment center but one that the line techs and construction department 
works out of) and ask them if they can core them for you. The connetors 
installs 
differently than say a PL-259 would and are either a 2 piece or a 3 
piece.
 
The coring tool actually cores out the dialetric 
and leaves the center conductor exposed with the shield. i do not have any here 
at the house to take pictures of it  , nor be at work for the next month ( 
due to a back surgery).
 
But feel free to contact me if you have any further 
questions.
 
Keith
N3QAM

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  pontotochs 
  To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com 
  
  Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 10:35 AM
  Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Identify 
  a coax and possible connector vendor
  

  
  Thanks to N3QAM and Ben. You guys nailed it with the P3 500 from 
  China.

I also appreciate Ben's tip on how to use a 
  PL259.

Regards,
Rick, N5RB

--- In Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com, 
  "N3QAM"  wrote:
>
> like 500 p3 or 
  variant
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: N3QAM 
  
> To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com 
  
> Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 8:18 PM
> Subject: Re: 
  [Repeater-Builder] Identify a coax and possible connector vendor
> 
  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sounds like some 75 ohm 
  cable self support
> - Original Message - 
> From: 
  pontotochs 
> To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com 
  
> Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 8:16 PM
> Subject: 
  [Repeater-Builder] Identify a coax and possible connector vendor
> 
  
> 
> Hi,
> One of the ham repeater owners in the area has 
  acquired a coax that I can't identify. No markings on the jacket. It has a 
  nominal jacket diameter of 0.58 inches (it looks to be the 'standard' black 
  PE), it has a solid aluminum shield (0.51" OD), about 0.028" thick. The 
  dielectric looks to be the PE foam. The center conductor is copper over 
  aluminum with a 0.11" OD (about #10 gauge). It looks to be 50 ohm based on a 
  rough calculation.
> 
> The interesting thing about this cable is 
  that it has a messenger wire molded to the outside of the jacket. It is about 
  # 10 gauge steel. It is not wrapped around the coax, just to one side, about 
  0.2 inches away. When I say molded, I mean that messenger wire and coax have 
  the same black insulator jacket with a rib of the same material between 
  them.
> 
> I am looking for a source of connectors for this cable, 
  so any help identifying it would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks for 
  your help in advance,
> Rick, N5RB
>



 

  




 

















  

Re: [Repeater-Builder] (anderson power poles revisited)

[Nate Duehr]

On May 8, 2009, at 8:17 PM, Chuck Kelsey wrote:

> Like I said, mine were the smaller red and black ones. I believe 35  
> amp. I
> have never crimped them, just soldered. I believe they are  
> advertised as
> being able to just solder if so desired. Maybe that's the problem.
>
> Chuck
> WB2EDV

Chuck,

See if you can find someone with the proper crimp tool and look  
carefully at the HEIGHT of the resulting connection.  I, like others  
here -- but I was trying to stay out of it, since PowerPole  
discussions always lead a little bit to the "religious debate" side of  
things, vs. the technical -- haven't had ANY problems with PowerPoles,  
but I make sure the seller is selling the real-deal by brand name, and  
not knock-offs, and I use the big/proper crimp tool to make the  
connections.

When you solder them, the most common failure/problem I've seen is  
that the connection stays as "tall" as the wire gauge, and if you can  
get a good look at a properly crimped one, they're "shorter".  When  
the inner connector pieces are too tall, there's no "play" for the  
connector to "lock/click" into the internal spring, and there's no way  
for the spring to "push" on the connector, holding it together at the  
"hump".  My opinion, anyway...

I've used Powerpoles in my VHF+ "rover"/mobile station exclusively,  
and I've only ever had ONE disconnect during bouncy dirt roads in a  
Jeep.  The PowerPole "bar" is mounted horizontally so that the  
connectors are ALWAYS hanging sideways, and the wire pulls on them,  
and they stay in fine for the weekend of driving...

PowerPoles fall into the same category as anything RF or DC that  
Amphenol makes, I think.  Lots of knock-offs, but only with the  
original Anderson product, and the correct tools, do they seem to  
always work fine for my purposes.

Ask your vendor if they're using the real-deal, and not a knock-off,  
and get a look at a connection made with the big/real crimp tool.   
(Not even the little pliers that some vendors sell really do it right.)

--
Nate Duehr, WY0X
n...@natetech.com