[Repeater-Builder] Repeater Controllers for sale

[Derek]

CAT-250
Includes rack-mount enclosure and programming software
purchased about a year ago and replaced with a different controller for more 
functionality.
Still in perfect condition.
Retails for over $400 new.
$300 OBO.

CAT-300DX
Controller is mounted in metal box
Used, but still works well.
$150 OBO

TP-3200
Basic 'community repeater' controller, will do multiple PL/DPL
$100 OBO

contact off list at derek jmu at yahoo dot com.

Thanks.

*DEREK*
KD4ADL
http://www.nchears.org

[Repeater-Builder] OT: IFR MM-100E

[dallasreact112]

Does any one have the manual for an IFR MM-100E. It is the accessory option 
found in the lid of either an FM/AM 1000 or FM/AM 1100S communications monitor. 
It is a cheap and dirty SINAD/Voltmeter. All I need actually is the value of 
R50.

Thanks

Bernie Parker

K5BP

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Hello new member here w/question

[wd8chl]

John Poindexter wrote:
> The ham building it is very experienced as he owns multiple repeater
> systems now. The antenna he shows up was a 4 bay antenna.
> 
> We need coverage to the south, south-east and south-west from the
> location of the repeater. We are not to worried about the north as
> the county ends ten miles north. WE are just wanting to be able to
> cover the county for emergency use.
> 
> I have been a ham for 30 years, but am new to the repeater business.
>  This is why I am researching and checking into different sites on
> repeaters.  Ran across this one today and signed up.
> 
> Thanks again for the help.
> 
> 73 John, W3ML

Another thing that is nearly as important as the antenna, is the 
feedline. Stay away from the LMR series of cables, or any other cable 
that has a braid shield and a foil shield. Most people who have tried to 
use them in full duplex service have had problems with noise generated 
by the dissimilar metals rubbing against each other.
Not everyone has had the problem, but more then enough have that it's 
best to just not use it.
Find some 1/2" hardline, LDF4-50 or similar.

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Help Identifying Matrix in Mastr II

[Eric Lemmon]

Laryn,

The combination number EX76KKS66A is your basic E-case VHF mobile radio, and
the part number 19B233115G1 appears to be a box rather than a component.

Please advise the frequencies of the ICOMs, along with their positions in
the radio.  I suspect that you have an IMTS or MTS mobile telephone drawer,
but the frequencies will provide valuable information.

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY


-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Laryn Lohman
Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 8:05 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Help Identifying Matrix in Mastr II



Hi all, I recently acquired an E case Mastr II VHF mobile with two
receivers. Combination EX76KKS66A, KT74-A, ER64-A. It has a number of ICOMS
plugged into each receiver, plus several more in the transmitter. Underneath
an *extra high* (not flat) top cover is a ~4x6 in. box with several dozen
feedthru caps on the side with same number of wires going to a board deep in
the case. The number on the box is 19B233115G1. Inside the box are several
ICs and a pin matrix with wires plugged onto some of them. 

I've searched the RB site for any reference to the above numbers with only
the KT74 showing but no help.

Does anyone have further info on this radio and what the box does? A
scanning receiver(s) maybe? Thanks!

Laryn K8TVZ

[Repeater-Builder] Help Identifying Matrix in Mastr II

[Laryn Lohman]

Hi all, I recently acquired an E case Mastr II VHF mobile with two receivers.  
Combination EX76KKS66A, KT74-A, ER64-A.  It has a number of ICOMS plugged into 
each receiver, plus several more in the transmitter.  Underneath an *extra 
high* (not flat) top cover is a ~4x6 in. box with several dozen feedthru caps 
on the side with same number of wires going to a board deep in the case.  The 
number on the box is 19B233115G1.  Inside the box are several ICs and a pin 
matrix with wires plugged onto some of them.  

I've searched the RB site for any reference to the above numbers with  only the 
KT74 showing but no help.

Does anyone have further info on this radio and what the box does?  A scanning 
receiver(s) maybe?  Thanks!

Laryn K8TVZ

RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Dry Transfers for PCB Construction

[Eric Lemmon]

Mike,

Many electronics specialty stores sell Datak printed circuit dry transfer
design materials.  Contact Philmore-Datak here:


One method I have used is to create the artwork in AutoCAD or Visio, and
then use a laser printer to set the image onto a clear piece of acetate- the
product used to make overhead slides (before PowerPoint became the
standard).  Sandwich this acetate sheet onto the sensitized PCB, making
certain that the emulsion side is facing the PCB.  If not, reverse the image
before printing onto the acetate.

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
 

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Besemer (WM4B)
Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 5:20 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Dry Transfers for PCB Construction



20 or so years ago, I used to do quite a bit of PCB etching using dry
transfers that were available at Radio Shack.  None of the 'Shacks around
here carry them any more and I've not found anything on the 'net yet.  Is
anybody still etching their own boards using dry transfers, or am I just an
old dinosaur?  I'm not interested in any of the other methods. just looking
for some dry transfer materials.

73,

Mike

WM4B

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: A Home Brew 224 MHz Repeater Project. - Part 3 (The Exciter)

[no6b]

At 5/24/2009 21:57, you wrote:
> > >A Home Brew 224 MHz Repeater Project.
> > >Let's talk about the coax connector being an RCA jack on the
> > >exciter PC Board. Why bother with a box ­chassis mount connector
> > >added to the path
>
> > n...@... wrote:
> > Why?  To maintain proper shielding.
>
>No, to eliminate the extra loss of two additional jacks
>and plugs. Since the exciter output is down near the
>trailing amplifier's practical minimum drive level (value),
>it's nice to where possible reduce unwanted signal loss.

OK.  But if you really wanted to minimize the loss between the exciter & 
PA, you could use an N bulkhead (virtually lossless @ 220 MHz) so you could 
use some larger diameter coax between the box & PA, or even Superflex.

> > Again, passing a wire/shield/any conductor through a hole
> > in the box without bonding at that point will make
> > the conductor act like a coupling probe. Sure, it may
> > work but I claim so would doing away with the box
> > altogether, so you could simply bolt the exciter board
> > to a plate.  Of course the harmonics generated by the
> > exciter will radiate.
>
>I tried and measured at least three different construction
>techniques... all had the same results. The first was
>just holes in the box, no bonding to the metal box. Keep
>in mind the actual length of coax (inside the box) routed
>to the exciter RCA Jack you assume is an RF probe is
>really short.

OK, that's probably why you don't get much coupling to the outside of the 
coax.  At 440 (where I normally work) & higher frequencies, it's much 
harder to keep those distances short enough to avoid problems.

>I did a lot of "RF looking around" the exciter, at pc board
>level, near the board, in the box with the board running,
>box cover off and box cover on. Credit to the latest version
>of the Hamtronics T-301-6 Exciter for being well thought
>out in regards to RF shielding and having very minimal unwanted
>RF products both near-field (radiated) and out the coax port.

Is the synthesized output the fundamental signal, or is there 
multiplication after the oscillator?  If it's the former & they're using a 
clean oscillator, there may be little harmonic content generated on the board.

Bob NO6B

Re: [Repeater-Builder] SWR Help....

[Frank or Barbara Rossi]

Try replacing the antenna with a dummy load and recheck the swr.
If it is good, then you have an antenna problem.
I'm assuming you are checking the SWR after the duplexers ?
Actually a directional watt meter may give you a better idea how it is 
working.
N3FLR - Frank

On 5/24/2009 9:55 PM, agrimm0034 wrote:
> Installed a new 6.5 db gain antenna on the GMRS band 462.6 Transmit input is 
> 40 watts. LMR 400 ultra low loss cable is being used. Antenna is installed on 
> 3 legged style tower at 40 ft up. SWR reading is 2.5 - 1 ratio. Antenna calls 
> for a DC ground for lightning protection and the tower is not grounded. If I 
> ground the tower will it lower the swr on the antenna?
>
>
>
> --
>   

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Hello new member here w/question

[Eric Lemmon]

John,

Okay, we have established that an offset dipole antenna is appropriate.
Such antennas have nearly an ideal cardioid pattern.  My choice would be the
Andrew (Decibel Products) DB222 dual dipole antenna, set for offset pattern.
The Sinclair SRL-222 is another option.

When you have the opportunity, please provide more details about the radio
and the duplexer, such as make, model, size, etc.  What preamp is going to
be used?

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
 

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Poindexter
Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 5:40 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Hello new member here w/question



Well Eric those were some great questions you asked. Can I answer all of
them, probably not.

The radio is a Motorola, the cans will be 3 on receive side and 3 on
transmit side and a Pass/Reject band can before the pre-amp.
I believe the output power will be 70 watts.

The ham building it is very experienced as he owns multiple repeater systems
now. The antenna he shows up was a 4 bay antenna.

We need coverage to the south, south-east and south-west from the location
of the repeater. We are not to worried about the north as the county ends
ten miles north. WE are just wanting to be able to cover the county for
emergency use.

I have been a ham for 30 years, but am new to the repeater business. 
This is why I am researching and checking into different sites on repeaters.
Ran across this one today and signed up.

Thanks again for the help.

73
John, W3ML

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 , "Eric Lemmon" 
wrote:
>
> John,
> 
> Welcome to the group!
> 
> Please advise what make and model duplexer you have, and what is the
> arrangement of the seven cans? What make and model are the radios?
> 
> The antenna you select should be based more upon the repeater numbers
(power
> output, receive sensitivity, and desired coverage area) than by the
> available tower mounting space. For example, if your repeater location is
> off to one side of the desired coverage area, then an omnidirectional
> antenna is not the best choice. Given that you expect countywide coverage
> from a relatively small tower, your expectations may reflect some
> significant optimism. Indeed, it may be prudent to examine the desired
> coverage area closely to determine what antenna pattern will perform the
> best, and choose the antenna accordingly.
> 
> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 
> [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 ] On Behalf Of John Poindexter
> Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 3:32 PM
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Hello new member here w/question
> 
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> We are just getting into the repeater business for our club. We will run a
2
> meter repeater, with seven cans.
> 
> My questions is what would be a good antenna if we don't have the space to
> put a 4 bay antenna?
> 
> The tower that we are starting with is only 50 feet with a 10 mast.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> This repeater is just for covering our county (a small county at that), we
> are not worrying about other counties hitting it.
> 
> Thanks and 73
> John, W3ML
> Knox, IN
>

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Hello new member here w/question

[John Poindexter]

Well Eric those were some great questions you asked. Can I answer all of them, 
probably not.

The radio is a Motorola, the cans will be 3 on receive side and 3 on transmit 
side and a Pass/Reject band can before the pre-amp.
I believe the output power will be 70 watts.

The ham building it is very experienced as he owns multiple repeater systems 
now. The antenna he shows up was a 4 bay antenna.

We need coverage to the south, south-east and south-west from the location of 
the repeater. We are not to worried about the north as the county ends ten 
miles north. WE are just wanting to be able to cover the county for emergency 
use.

I have been a ham for 30 years, but am new to the repeater business. 
This is why I am researching and checking into different sites on repeaters.  
Ran across this one today and signed up.

Thanks again for the help.

73
John, W3ML



--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Lemmon"  wrote:
>
> John,
> 
> Welcome to the group!
> 
> Please advise what make and model duplexer you have, and what is the
> arrangement of the seven cans?  What make and model are the radios?
> 
> The antenna you select should be based more upon the repeater numbers (power
> output, receive sensitivity, and desired coverage area) than by the
> available tower mounting space.  For example, if your repeater location is
> off to one side of the desired coverage area, then an omnidirectional
> antenna is not the best choice.  Given that you expect countywide coverage
> from a relatively small tower, your expectations may reflect some
> significant optimism.  Indeed, it may be prudent to examine the desired
> coverage area closely to determine what antenna pattern will perform the
> best, and choose the antenna accordingly.
> 
> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Poindexter
> Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 3:32 PM
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Hello new member here w/question
> 
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> We are just getting into the repeater business for our club. We will run a 2
> meter repeater, with seven cans.
> 
> My questions is what would be a good antenna if we don't have the space to
> put a 4 bay antenna?
> 
> The tower that we are starting with is only 50 feet with a 10 mast.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> This repeater is just for covering our county (a small county at that), we
> are not worrying about other counties hitting it.
> 
> Thanks and 73
> John, W3ML
> Knox, IN
>

[Repeater-Builder] OT: Dry Transfers for PCB Construction

[Mike Besemer (WM4B)]

20 or so years ago, I used to do quite a bit of PCB etching using dry
transfers that were available at Radio Shack.  None of the 'Shacks around
here carry them any more and I've not found anything on the 'net yet.  Is
anybody still etching their own boards using dry transfers, or am I just an
old dinosaur?  I'm not interested in any of the other methods. just looking
for some dry transfer materials.

73,

Mike
WM4B

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Hello new member here w/question

[Eric Lemmon]

John,

Welcome to the group!

Please advise what make and model duplexer you have, and what is the
arrangement of the seven cans?  What make and model are the radios?

The antenna you select should be based more upon the repeater numbers (power
output, receive sensitivity, and desired coverage area) than by the
available tower mounting space.  For example, if your repeater location is
off to one side of the desired coverage area, then an omnidirectional
antenna is not the best choice.  Given that you expect countywide coverage
from a relatively small tower, your expectations may reflect some
significant optimism.  Indeed, it may be prudent to examine the desired
coverage area closely to determine what antenna pattern will perform the
best, and choose the antenna accordingly.

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY


-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Poindexter
Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 3:32 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Hello new member here w/question



Hello,

We are just getting into the repeater business for our club. We will run a 2
meter repeater, with seven cans.

My questions is what would be a good antenna if we don't have the space to
put a 4 bay antenna?

The tower that we are starting with is only 50 feet with a 10 mast.

Any ideas?

This repeater is just for covering our county (a small county at that), we
are not worrying about other counties hitting it.

Thanks and 73
John, W3ML
Knox, IN

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Hello new member here w/question

[John Poindexter]

Thanks for the advice. I will research those two and see hoe much  they run.

73
John, W3ML



--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Kelsey"  wrote:
>
> I would agree.
> 
> Chuck
> WB2EDV
> 
> 
> 
>   - Original Message - 
>   From: James Adkins 
>   To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 7:49 PM
>   Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Hello new member here w/question
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   You just can't go wrong with an Andrew DB-222 for what you're talking about
> 
> 
>
>   On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 6:42 PM, Lee Pennington  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Diamond F-23 works well for me, however lightning loves them.
> 
> de Lee
> k4LJP
> 73
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 6:31 PM, John Poindexter  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   Hello,
> 
>   We are just getting into the repeater business for our club. We will 
> run a 2 meter repeater, with seven cans.
> 
>   My questions is what would be a good antenna if we don't have the space 
> to put a 4 bay antenna?
> 
>   The tower that we are starting with is only 50 feet with a 10 mast.
> 
>   Any ideas?
> 
>   This repeater is just for covering our county (a small county at that), 
> we are not worrying about other counties hitting it.
> 
>   Thanks and 73
>   John, W3ML
>   Knox, IN
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> "Smart pills are placebos, you can't fix stupid."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   -- 
>   James Adkins, KB0NHX
>   Vice-President -- Nixa Amateur Radio Club, Inc. (KC0LUN)
>   www.nixahams.net
> 
>   The Nixa Amateur Radio Club - "There is no charge for awesomeness!" (Well, 
> only $1.00 per month)
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Hello new member here w/question

[Chuck Kelsey]

I would agree.

Chuck
WB2EDV



  - Original Message - 
  From: James Adkins 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 7:49 PM
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Hello new member here w/question





  You just can't go wrong with an Andrew DB-222 for what you're talking about


   
  On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 6:42 PM, Lee Pennington  
wrote:




A Diamond F-23 works well for me, however lightning loves them.

de Lee
k4LJP
73



On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 6:31 PM, John Poindexter  wrote:




  Hello,

  We are just getting into the repeater business for our club. We will run 
a 2 meter repeater, with seven cans.

  My questions is what would be a good antenna if we don't have the space 
to put a 4 bay antenna?

  The tower that we are starting with is only 50 feet with a 10 mast.

  Any ideas?

  This repeater is just for covering our county (a small county at that), 
we are not worrying about other counties hitting it.

  Thanks and 73
  John, W3ML
  Knox, IN






-- 
"Smart pills are placebos, you can't fix stupid."







  -- 
  James Adkins, KB0NHX
  Vice-President -- Nixa Amateur Radio Club, Inc. (KC0LUN)
  www.nixahams.net

  The Nixa Amateur Radio Club - "There is no charge for awesomeness!" (Well, 
only $1.00 per month)



  

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Hello new member here w/question

[James Adkins]

You just can't go wrong with an Andrew DB-222 for what you're talking about



On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 6:42 PM, Lee Pennington
wrote:

>
>
> A Diamond F-23 works well for me, however lightning loves them.
>
> de Lee
> k4LJP
> 73
>
> On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 6:31 PM, John Poindexter  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> We are just getting into the repeater business for our club. We will run a
>> 2 meter repeater, with seven cans.
>>
>> My questions is what would be a good antenna if we don't have the space to
>> put a 4 bay antenna?
>>
>> The tower that we are starting with is only 50 feet with a 10 mast.
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>> This repeater is just for covering our county (a small county at that), we
>> are not worrying about other counties hitting it.
>>
>> Thanks and 73
>> John, W3ML
>> Knox, IN
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> "Smart pills are placebos, you can't fix stupid."
>
> 
>



-- 
James Adkins, KB0NHX
Vice-President -- Nixa Amateur Radio Club, Inc. (KC0LUN)
www.nixahams.net

The Nixa Amateur Radio Club - "There is no charge for awesomeness!" (Well,
only $1.00 per month)

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Hello new member here w/question

[Lee Pennington]

A Diamond F-23 works well for me, however lightning loves them.

de Lee
k4LJP
73

On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 6:31 PM, John Poindexter  wrote:

>
>
> Hello,
>
> We are just getting into the repeater business for our club. We will run a
> 2 meter repeater, with seven cans.
>
> My questions is what would be a good antenna if we don't have the space to
> put a 4 bay antenna?
>
> The tower that we are starting with is only 50 feet with a 10 mast.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> This repeater is just for covering our county (a small county at that), we
> are not worrying about other counties hitting it.
>
> Thanks and 73
> John, W3ML
> Knox, IN
>
>  
>



-- 
"Smart pills are placebos, you can't fix stupid."

[Repeater-Builder] Hello new member here w/question

[John Poindexter]

Hello,

We are just getting into the repeater business for our club.  We will run a 2 
meter repeater, with seven cans.

My questions is what would be a good antenna if we don't have the space to put 
a 4 bay antenna?

The tower that we are starting with is only 50 feet with a 10 mast.

Any ideas?

This repeater is just for covering our county (a small county at that), we are 
not worrying about other counties hitting it.

Thanks and 73
John, W3ML
Knox, IN

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: New Transmitting Antenna SWR Question

[Chuck Kelsey]

Several things here.

First - the antenna appears to be a low-end unit. I believe you indicated 
that it required a length adjustment to tune it to your frequency A good 
commercial-grade station antenna will not require you to do this. The best 
VSWR you have seen is 1.5:1. Most good antennas will typically do better 
than this.

Next - You indicate that changing the feedline length changes the VSWR. 
Usually this indicates that the antenna is not at 50-ohms and the change in 
length is making your coax act as if it were a matching section.

Then - you indicate that the VSWR meter is a low-end unit. It may not be 
accurate.

Finally, you need to get the LMR cable replaced with some Heliax. This issue 
has been beat to death here on Repeater Builder. Foil/braid coax is not 
recommended for duplex use. Sooner or later is will turn on you and you'll 
have noise and desense. This issue comes up here about every other week (or 
sooner). I'll assume you are new to this list.

Chuck
WB2EDV



- Original Message - 
From: "agrimm0034" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 11:24 AM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: New Transmitting Antenna SWR Question


> The antenna is mounted at the tip top. The meter im using im sure is not 
> top of the line accurate. It's a basic cheap radio shack model 144/440 
> band watt/swr meter. I can get a hold of a Bird 43 meter pretty easy to 
> check with if you think that would be better. Also im running 40 ft of lmr 
> 400 feedline
>
> 

Re: [possible spam] Re: [Repeater-Builder] Strang new noise in repeater

[NORM KNAPP]

Update to noise in repeater.
One of the other 2 repeaters on the tower has been keyed up a good bit off and 
on with no modulation, ie someone sitting on a mic or something, but no 
modulation heard.
While this other repeater is up and someone brings the noisy repeter up, the 
noise happens. I have yet to hear the noise without the second repeater 
transmitting. I am starting to see a pattern here and will investigate further.
Thanks for all the input and keep it coming.
N5NPO
Norm

- Original Message -
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Sun May 24 23:25:44 2009
Subject: [possible spam]  Re: [Repeater-Builder] Strang new noise in repeater



Does this repeater have a digital audio delay in it? It could be 
getting into ITSELF...

Output to input PIM or other sources like that with a digital audio 
delay, will sound like that... a hollow "echo" chamber, often with any 
tones or low level noises really amplified... like stage PA system to 
mic "feedback" loops.

Nate WY0X

On May 24, 2009, at 4:00 PM, NORM KNAPP wrote:

> Well. The tunnel thing is a better desciption. There is kind of a 
> heterodyning effect to the sound. Like a drain pipe hollow sound. 
> Good desciption.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
>   
> mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> 
>  
> >
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
>    buil...@yahoogroups.com  >
> Sent: Sun May 24 16:39:07 2009
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Strang new noise in repeater
>
>
>
> You could do a frequency search and see if you could find a user on 
> the
> reverse pair. However, I've never heard it sound like a steam 
> whistle - the
> description of howling in a tunnel (or drain pipe) is what I've 
> heard when
> reverse pair repeaters lock up. And they can stay locked up until 
> one times
> out.
>
> Chuck
> WB2EDV
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "NORM KNAPP" mailto:nknapp%40twowayradio.net>  
>  > >
> To:    
>  > >
> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 5:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Strang new noise in repeater
>
>> Now that is more likely. They have a really weird splinter 
>> frequency and a
>> DPL code. That is still very possible. There has been a good bit of
>> ducting lately. Thanks, I will start listening to the repeater input.
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
>>   
>> > > > >   
>> > > > >
>> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
>>   
>> > > > >   
>> > > > >
>> Sent: Sun May 24 16:23:27 2009
>> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Strang new noise in repeater
>>
>>
>>
>> Norman, we had a similar situation many years ago with a Ham 
>> repeater that
>> would
>> lock up with a distant repeater using the reverse pair 
>> frequencies ! It
>> was
>> a sound like
>> a hollow tunnel howling and growling.happened during periods of
>> inversion.
>>
>> John VE3AMZ
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "NORM KNAPP" mailto:nknapp%40twowayradio.net> 
>>  > >
>>  >
>> To: >   
>> > >
>>  >
>> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 5:12 PM
>> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Strang new noise in repeater
>>
>>> Got a VHF repeater in my area. In the last several weeks it has 
>>> started
>>> making a noise like that of a steam whistle. It doesn't do it all 
>>> the
>>> time. It seems random. I have not been able to make any 
>>> connections yet
>>> with regular occurances. It doesn't do it until someone talks 
>>> through the
>>> repeater and the unkeys. The noise keeps the repeater up for a 
>>> couple of
>>> seconds to neary a minute. The repeater is a 100watt MTR2000. I 
>>> don't
>>> remember the duplexer type/model/brand. It doesn't seem to do it 
>>> during
>>> the day, it seems more prevelant in the evening and mornings.
>>> Any ideas?
>>> N5NPO
>>> Norman Knapp
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

--
Nate Duehr
n...@natetech.com  

[Repeater-Builder] Re: New Transmitting Antenna SWR Question

[agrimm0034]

The antenna is mounted at the tip top. The meter im using im sure is not top of 
the line accurate. It's a basic cheap radio shack model 144/440 band watt/swr 
meter. I can get a hold of a Bird 43 meter pretty easy to check with if you 
think that would be better. Also im running 40 ft of lmr 400 feedline

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Ralph Mowery  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> 
> --- On Sun, 5/24/09, agrimm0034  wrote:
> 
> > From: agrimm0034 
> > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: New Transmitting Antenna SWR Question
> > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Sunday, May 24, 2009, 11:36 AM
> > It came with some cutting charts to
> > cut the 3 inside elements inside of a plastic tube. I cut
> > those and checked the SWR with 10 ft piece of RG-58 25 watts
> > input and it read 1.5-1. Assumed everything was okay. Cable
> > was put on a dummy load and cable tested great with no
> > shortages and very low loss. 3-4 watts from 40 watt input.
> > After testing several times the more power that was put into
> > the feedline the higher the SWR was. The lower power I put
> > in the lower the SWR was. My tower that it is on is not
> > grounded and the antenna calls for DC ground for lightning
> > protection so I might need to ground the antenna. Anyone
> > think that will help SWR any?
> > 
> >
> 
> I have not been following the whole thread,but it seems that something is 
> wrong with your meter. I guess that you are using about 50 feet or more of 
> the lmr400.  It has a loss of over 2 db (almost 3 db) per 100 feet.  That is 
> a loss of 1 db for 50 feet which should give you around a 10 watt loss or 
> more with 40 watts input.  
> Many inexpensive meters (and some expensive ones) will show lower swr at 
> lower power.  This is a false reading due to the way the detecting diodes 
> work.  What kind of meter are you using ?  
> When you used the rg58 to test the antenna, it has too much loss at 450 mhz 
> to make a good swr measurment.  I think if it shows the swr to be 1.5 it will 
> really be over 2 at the antenna due to the loss in the coax.
> 
> Grounding a 40 foot will have no effect on the swr of an antenna mounted to 
> it.  Atleast if it is anywhere near the top.   It should be grounded for 
> lightning protection if possiable.
> 
> Is the antenna at the very top of the tower or is it side mounted ?  If side 
> mounted, this could have some effect on the swr.
>

[Repeater-Builder] Re: New Transmitting Antenna SWR Question

[agrimm0034]

The connectors where Amphenol Crimp on. I measured from the center conductor of 
the cable to the outer shield and it measured open lead acting as if there were 
no shorts in the cable. The wattmeter i was using was a cheap radio shack. 
144/440 band watt/swr meter.

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Joe  wrote:
>
> agrimm0034 wrote:
> > Cable was put on a dummy load and cable tested great with no shortages and 
> > very low loss. 3-4 watts from 40 watt input. After testing several times 
> > the more power that was put into the feedline the higher the SWR was. The 
> > lower power I put in the lower the SWR was. 
> Sure sounds like a bad connector installation on the LMR cable.  Were 
> these crimp or compression connectors?  Also, what kind of a wattmeter 
> were you using?
> 
> 73, Joe, K1ike
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: New Transmitting Antenna SWR Question

[Joe]

agrimm0034 wrote:
> Cable was put on a dummy load and cable tested great with no shortages and 
> very low loss. 3-4 watts from 40 watt input. After testing several times the 
> more power that was put into the feedline the higher the SWR was. The lower 
> power I put in the lower the SWR was. 
Sure sounds like a bad connector installation on the LMR cable.  Were 
these crimp or compression connectors?  Also, what kind of a wattmeter 
were you using?

73, Joe, K1ike

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Sinclair dipole array premature failure (noisy)

[Chuck Kelsey]

OK, those weren't a problem according to Skip. The problem ones were those 
with two dipoles mounted at the same elevation on opposing sides of the 
mast.

Chuck
WB2EDV


- Original Message - 
From: "Nate Duehr" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 12:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Sinclair dipole array premature failure 
(noisy)


>
> On May 22, 2009, at 6:08 AM, Chuck Kelsey wrote:
>
>> Nate -
>>
>> Were these dual-dipole arrays - a total of 4 elements? Or were they
>> two
>> elements - one mounted over the top of the other?
>>
>> Chuck
>> WB2EDV
>
>
> 2-elements only, vertically mounted one above the other.
>
> http://www.sinclairtechnologies.com/catalog/product.aspx?id=1682
>
> --
> Nate Duehr, WY0X
> n...@natetech.com
>
>
> 

Re: [possible spam] Re: [Repeater-Builder] Strang new noise in repeater

[NORM KNAPP]

I don't belive so. It is a moto MTR2000. Nothing fancy. I didn't install the 
repeater origionally. I have taken it to the shop for repairs once, over a year 
ago. About the only constant is time of day. Mornings and evenings mostly.
There are at least 2 other VHF repeaters on that same tower. One of the other 
ones may be doing funny things as well. I have got to investigate further on 
that.


- Original Message -
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Sun May 24 23:25:44 2009
Subject: [possible spam]  Re: [Repeater-Builder] Strang new noise in repeater



Does this repeater have a digital audio delay in it? It could be 
getting into ITSELF...

Output to input PIM or other sources like that with a digital audio 
delay, will sound like that... a hollow "echo" chamber, often with any 
tones or low level noises really amplified... like stage PA system to 
mic "feedback" loops.

Nate WY0X

On May 24, 2009, at 4:00 PM, NORM KNAPP wrote:

> Well. The tunnel thing is a better desciption. There is kind of a 
> heterodyning effect to the sound. Like a drain pipe hollow sound. 
> Good desciption.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
>   
> mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> 
>  
> >
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
>    buil...@yahoogroups.com  >
> Sent: Sun May 24 16:39:07 2009
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Strang new noise in repeater
>
>
>
> You could do a frequency search and see if you could find a user on 
> the
> reverse pair. However, I've never heard it sound like a steam 
> whistle - the
> description of howling in a tunnel (or drain pipe) is what I've 
> heard when
> reverse pair repeaters lock up. And they can stay locked up until 
> one times
> out.
>
> Chuck
> WB2EDV
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "NORM KNAPP" mailto:nknapp%40twowayradio.net>  
>  > >
> To:    
>  > >
> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 5:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Strang new noise in repeater
>
>> Now that is more likely. They have a really weird splinter 
>> frequency and a
>> DPL code. That is still very possible. There has been a good bit of
>> ducting lately. Thanks, I will start listening to the repeater input.
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
>>   
>> > > > >   
>> > > > >
>> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
>>   
>> > > > >   
>> > > > >
>> Sent: Sun May 24 16:23:27 2009
>> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Strang new noise in repeater
>>
>>
>>
>> Norman, we had a similar situation many years ago with a Ham 
>> repeater that
>> would
>> lock up with a distant repeater using the reverse pair 
>> frequencies ! It
>> was
>> a sound like
>> a hollow tunnel howling and growling.happened during periods of
>> inversion.
>>
>> John VE3AMZ
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "NORM KNAPP" mailto:nknapp%40twowayradio.net> 
>>  > >
>>  >
>> To: >   
>> > >
>>  >
>> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 5:12 PM
>> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Strang new noise in repeater
>>
>>> Got a VHF repeater in my area. In the last several weeks it has 
>>> started
>>> making a noise like that of a steam whistle. It doesn't do it all 
>>> the
>>> time. It seems random. I have not been able to make any 
>>> connections yet
>>> with regular occurances. It doesn't do it until someone talks 
>>> through the
>>> repeater and the unkeys. The noise keeps the repeater up for a 
>>> couple of
>>> seconds to neary a minute. The repeater is a 100watt MTR2000. I 
>>> don't
>>> remember the duplexer type/model/brand. It doesn't seem to do it 
>>> during
>>> the day, it seems more prevelant in the evening and mornings.
>>> Any ideas?
>>> N5NPO
>>> Norman Knapp
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

--
Nate Duehr
n...@natetech.com  

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: New Transmitting Antenna SWR Question

[Ralph Mowery]

--- On Sun, 5/24/09, agrimm0034  wrote:

> From: agrimm0034 
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: New Transmitting Antenna SWR Question
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, May 24, 2009, 11:36 AM
> It came with some cutting charts to
> cut the 3 inside elements inside of a plastic tube. I cut
> those and checked the SWR with 10 ft piece of RG-58 25 watts
> input and it read 1.5-1. Assumed everything was okay. Cable
> was put on a dummy load and cable tested great with no
> shortages and very low loss. 3-4 watts from 40 watt input.
> After testing several times the more power that was put into
> the feedline the higher the SWR was. The lower power I put
> in the lower the SWR was. My tower that it is on is not
> grounded and the antenna calls for DC ground for lightning
> protection so I might need to ground the antenna. Anyone
> think that will help SWR any?
> 
>

I have not been following the whole thread,but it seems that something is wrong 
with your meter. I guess that you are using about 50 feet or more of the 
lmr400.  It has a loss of over 2 db (almost 3 db) per 100 feet.  That is a loss 
of 1 db for 50 feet which should give you around a 10 watt loss or more with 40 
watts input.  
Many inexpensive meters (and some expensive ones) will show lower swr at lower 
power.  This is a false reading due to the way the detecting diodes work.  What 
kind of meter are you using ?  
When you used the rg58 to test the antenna, it has too much loss at 450 mhz to 
make a good swr measurment.  I think if it shows the swr to be 1.5 it will 
really be over 2 at the antenna due to the loss in the coax.

Grounding a 40 foot will have no effect on the swr of an antenna mounted to it. 
 Atleast if it is anywhere near the top.   It should be grounded for lightning 
protection if possiable.

Is the antenna at the very top of the tower or is it side mounted ?  If side 
mounted, this could have some effect on the swr.




  

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: New Transmitting Antenna SWR Question

[Barry]

"After testing several times the more power that was put into the feedline the 
higher the SWR was higher"

usual reaction , you will reach a point where the vswr rises no more with 
aerial adjustments  ( capacitive inductance in the cable I guess)

"Anyone think that will help SWR any?"
 It may but that's not certain and not the right answer .






> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> From: agrimm0...@yahoo.com
> Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 15:36:58 +
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: New Transmitting Antenna SWR Question
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> It came with some cutting charts to cut the 3 inside elements inside of a 
> plastic tube. I cut those and checked the SWR with 10 ft piece of RG-58 25 
> watts input and it read 1.5-1. Assumed everything was okay. Cable was put on 
> a dummy load and cable tested great with no shortages and very low loss. 3-4 
> watts from 40 watt input. After testing several times the more power that was 
> put into the feedline the higher the SWR was. The lower power I put in the 
> lower the SWR was. My tower that it is on is not grounded and the antenna 
> calls for DC ground for lightning protection so I might need to ground the 
> antenna. Anyone think that will help SWR any?
>
>
>
> --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Wayne Leake wrote:
>
>>
>
>> I can't say for certain, but have you checked the antenna prior to
>
>> putting it on the tower?
>
>> I have a high gain antenna ion a twoer, need to get the heliax
>
>> connected to it, but i tested in on a post before I put it on the
>
>> twoer
>
>>
>
>> Also, LMR400 is not recommended for full duplex use. that type of
>
>> cable can cause noise problems under full duplex conditions.
>
>> I sometimes test cables as well, connecting them to a good dummy
>
>> load, and test several ways.
>
>> I have an analyzer, actually 2 of the, one only for the 70 centimeter
>
>> band, and also check with a Bird 43 watt meter looking at reflected as
>
>> well as forward power.
>
>>
>
>> matter of fact, I have some coax assembled by Cable Expertys taht
>
>> turns out some has fare more loss than another, both 100 feet About 65
>
>> watts from a GE Mastr II repeater on the 440 band shows about 4 watts
>
>> at the other end, and one less than 1 watt. Something not right there.
>
>> So it is possible the coax and/or connectors have a problem
>
>> By mounting my antenna low and using a known good jumper from my 440
>
>> analyzer. I determined the SWR was very low on the antenna. And
>
>> testing cables will show you where the problem might be.
>
>> Also, where are you inserting the meter? That can make a difference
>
>> I tested my loss in my duplexer by testing watts before it and watts
>
>> out. Found good for the rated insertion loss.
>
>> And little reflected power on the transmitter side of the duplexer.
>
>> the word is, test, test and test.
>
>> test each part of the antenna system to locate where the problem really is...
>
>>
>
>> Wayne WA2YNE
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 8:17 PM, agrimm0034 wrote:
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>> Currently just upgraded my home built GMRS Maxtrac repeater to a new 6.5db
>
>>> Gain Tran-Max antenna. Says SWR should be 1.5 - 1 or less and I have a
>
>>> reading of 2.5 - 1. I'm using LMR 400 ultra low loss cable at 40 ft putting
>
>>> in 40 watts of power. The antenna is mounted on 40 ft tower old 3 legged
>
>>> style. Nothing is around the antenna and check cable to make sure it wasn't
>
>>> shorted and everything seems to be fine. Any ideas on how to make the
>
>>> Standing Wave better?
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

_
Looking for a fresh way to share your photos? Check out the new Windows Live 
Messenger
http://windowslive.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=792335

[Repeater-Builder] SWR Help....

[agrimm0034]

Installed a new 6.5 db gain antenna on the GMRS band 462.6 Transmit input is 40 
watts. LMR 400 ultra low loss cable is being used. Antenna is installed on 3 
legged style tower at 40 ft up. SWR reading is 2.5 - 1 ratio. Antenna calls for 
a DC ground for lightning protection and the tower is not grounded. If I ground 
the tower will it lower the swr on the antenna?

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Strang new noise in repeater

[Richard Fletcher]

Hi Norm,
 I have seen this a couple times. Once was on an old Motorola Motrac and once 
on a Mastr II.
 Both were on UHF and both were because of a receive audio load problem. The 
fix is making sure you have a speaker load on the receiver. Give that a try and 
let me know if that seems to do the trick.
 Another thing to check for is to see if there is any interference on the IF 
Frequency of the oscillator freq. On the GE its 11.2 MHZ down from the actual 
freq. Not sure what it is on that model Moto. 
 One more thing,
 One it’s keyed up, take a screw driver handle and tap lightly around the 
receiver section. It might just be a bad connection or cold solder joint. 
 Make sure the receiver antenna connection is good from the PCB all the way to 
the Duplexer as well. Moving the connection (Tighten or loosen the connections) 
 
Best Regards
Rick

--- On Sun, 5/24/09, NORM KNAPP  wrote:


From: NORM KNAPP 
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Strang new noise in repeater
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, May 24, 2009, 5:12 PM








Got a VHF repeater in my area. In the last several weeks it has started making 
a noise like that of a steam whistle. It doesn't do it all the time. It seems 
random. I have not been able to make any connections yet with regular 
occurances. It doesn't do it until someone talks through the repeater and the 
unkeys. The noise keeps the repeater up for a couple of seconds to neary a 
minute. The repeater is a 100watt MTR2000. I don't remember the duplexer 
type/model/brand. It doesn't seem to do it during the day, it seems more 
prevelant in the evening and mornings. 
Any ideas?
N5NPO
Norman Knapp
















  

[Repeater-Builder] Re: New Transmitting Antenna SWR Question

[agrimm0034]

It came with some cutting charts to cut the 3 inside elements inside of a 
plastic tube. I cut those and checked the SWR with 10 ft piece of RG-58 25 
watts input and it read 1.5-1. Assumed everything was okay. Cable was put on a 
dummy load and cable tested great with no shortages and very low loss. 3-4 
watts from 40 watt input. After testing several times the more power that was 
put into the feedline the higher the SWR was. The lower power I put in the 
lower the SWR was. My tower that it is on is not grounded and the antenna calls 
for DC ground for lightning protection so I might need to ground the antenna. 
Anyone think that will help SWR any?

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Wayne Leake  wrote:
>
>  I can't say for certain, but have you checked the antenna prior to
> putting it on the tower?
>   I have a high gain antenna ion a twoer, need to get the heliax
> connected to it, but i tested in on a post before I put it on the
> twoer
> 
>  Also, LMR400 is not recommended for full duplex use. that type of
> cable can cause noise problems under full duplex conditions.
>  I sometimes test cables as well, connecting them to a good dummy
> load, and test several ways.
>  I have an analyzer, actually 2 of the, one only for the 70 centimeter
> band, and also check with a Bird 43 watt meter looking at reflected as
> well as forward power.
> 
>  matter of fact, I have some coax assembled by Cable Expertys taht
> turns out some has fare more loss than another, both 100 feet About 65
> watts from a GE Mastr II repeater on the 440 band shows about 4 watts
> at the other end, and one less than 1 watt. Something not right there.
> So it is possible the coax and/or connectors have a problem
>  By mounting my antenna low and using a known good jumper from my 440
> analyzer. I determined the SWR was very low on the antenna. And
> testing cables will show you where the problem might be.
>  Also, where are you inserting the meter? That can make a difference
>  I tested my loss in my duplexer by testing watts before it and watts
> out. Found good for the rated insertion loss.
>  And little reflected power on the transmitter side of the duplexer.
>  the word is, test, test and test.
>  test each part of the antenna system to locate where the problem really is...
> 
>  Wayne WA2YNE
> 
> 
> On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 8:17 PM, agrimm0034  wrote:
> >
> >
> > Currently just upgraded my home built GMRS Maxtrac repeater to a new 6.5db
> > Gain Tran-Max antenna. Says SWR should be 1.5 - 1 or less and I have a
> > reading of 2.5 - 1. I'm using LMR 400 ultra low loss cable at 40 ft putting
> > in 40 watts of power. The antenna is mounted on 40 ft tower old 3 legged
> > style. Nothing is around the antenna and check cable to make sure it wasn't
> > shorted and everything seems to be fine. Any ideas on how to make the
> > Standing Wave better?
> >
> >
>