Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question

[Chuck Kelsey]

4 cans will do it. Preamp may or may not be of any use depending on noise 
floor. Your bigger problem is all the noise that a mobile encounters these 
days. Sometimes it's tough to hear the repeater through all the crap that's 
out there.

Chuck
WB2EDV



- Original Message - 
From: "NORM KNAPP" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 3:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question


> Oh drat! I thought I was getting away with something :-)
> I am about to start on a 6m mastr ii with 1 meg split. It is a 110 watt 
> cont duty station I am converting to a repeater. I don't think the exciter 
> is a pll, way too many cans on the board and small icom About how much 
> isolation will I need there? I don't know if I have a preamp for this one 
> or not... But if I do, I would try to run it.
> 73
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Wed Sep 08 23:08:38 2010
> Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question
>
>
>
>
> The PLL exciter is why you're having such good success running a 4-cavity
> duplexer. If you had a PM exciter, chances are you'd be experiencing
> desense. The PLL exciter produces about 22 dB less noise at 600 kHz 
> offset,
> reducing the noise supression requirement of the duplexer by a like 
> amount.
>
> See: http://www.repeater-builder.com/pdf/GE_Isolation_Curves.pdf
>
> The OP also mentioned he was using a preamp - that's not helping his
> situation either. Even with a good receiver he's probably on the edge of
> crunching it with only a 4-pack. Personally, I'd never run a preamp with
> nothing but a 4-cavity duplexer on 2m, but if it works for you, God 
> bless...
>
> A Q202G gives more isolation than a WP639 from what I've seen/measured, in
> part because the cavities are larger diameter (I think they're 7" versus
> 5"?).
>
> --- Jeff WN3A
>
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
>> 
>> [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
>>  ] On Behalf Of NORM KNAPP
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:38 PM
>> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
>> 
>> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question
>>
>>
>>
>> I got a set of 4 sinclair cans, like a Q202g on a GE mastr II
>> running 100 watts with pll exciter and GE preamp with no
>> desense. Antenna is roughly 300' away fed with LDF7-50A. Is
>> this a miracle or typical?
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
>> 
>> 
>> > 
>>  >
>> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
>> 
>> 
>> > 
>>  >
>> Sent: Wed Sep 08 20:10:44 2010
>> Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm not surprised- you're asking too much of a duplexer that
>> has four 5"
>> cans. According to my CommShop program, a duplexer with an 80
>> dB spec is
>> more suitable with transmitter power in the 10-15 watt range,
>> assuming a
>> solid-state PA and a receiver sensitivity around 0.35 uV at
>> 12 dB SINAD. On
>> a 100 watt repeater, I'd expect something like a WP-642,
>> which has six 8"
>> cans. BTDT, got the T-shirt and mug...
>>
>> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
>>
>>
>> -Original Message- 
>> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
>> 
>> 
>>  ] On Behalf Of RichardK
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 3:11 PM
>> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question
>>
>> Good evening, our club has a Wacom WP-639 four can duplexer
>> as part of our
>> repeater system. Input Fq is 147.915 and Output Fq is
>> 147.315. We have a
>> 600kHz (+) offset. Very simply, our main problem is when we run the
>> transmitter at full power 100 watts, there is a HUGE desense
>> on the receive
>> side of things. When we drop the transmitter power level to
>> around 20-50
>> watts, the receive side opens WAY up to a large area where
>> people can get
>> into the repeater. As we begin to bring up the transmitter
>> power, "white
>> noise" begins to appear and the receive

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions - Thanks for the answers

[Chuck Kelsey]

More likely he had the radio programmed wrong.

Chuck
WB2EDV


- Original Message - 
From: "MCH" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 11:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with 
more questions - Thanks for the answers


> His antenna could be in a null. It happens, as Murphy is a ham.
>
> Joe M.
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] 19D424089G1

[Chuck Kelsey]

Larry -

This is either an Exec II or a Mastr II - two different radios. The Exec II 
mobile is 'gray' and has a plastic, non-movable handle. The Mastr II mobile 
has a foldable handle. Which one do you have?

Chuck
WB2EDV


- Original Message - 
From: "Larry Wagoner" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 8:27 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] 19D424089G1


>
>
>
>>Anyone have one of the above they wish to part with? We have reason
>>to suspect the PA in our repeater.
>
> It has developed various intermittent behaviors (dropping carrier,
> distorted audio, varying output, etc.) ..
>
> I believe this to be the 60 watt PA for the GE Mastr II Exec II
> mobile radio conversion.
> If I have the wrong board number, please advise ...
>
>
>
> Larry Wagoner - N5WLW
> PRCARC Training Officer
> PIC - MS SECT ARRL
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] 19D424089G1

[Chuck Kelsey]

I believe you are talking about an Exec II.

Several places to check before replacing the PA.

A common problem is the jumper between the exciter and the PA. The RCA 
connectors sometimes go intermittent. Also, if the TR relay hasn't been 
jumpered, it could have gone intermittent.

Chuck
WB2EDV



- Original Message - 
From: "Larry Wagoner" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 8:27 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] 19D424089G1


>
>
>
>>Anyone have one of the above they wish to part with? We have reason
>>to suspect the PA in our repeater.
>
> It has developed various intermittent behaviors (dropping carrier,
> distorted audio, varying output, etc.) ..
>
> I believe this to be the 60 watt PA for the GE Mastr II Exec II
> mobile radio conversion.
> If I have the wrong board number, please advise ...
>
>
>
> Larry Wagoner - N5WLW
> PRCARC Training Officer
> PIC - MS SECT ARRL
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>






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02:35:00

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity

[Chuck Kelsey]

There are shield covers on the RX board that need to be pulled off and have 
the ground pins cleaned. I watched a Motorola service shop do that and the 
sensitivity came back. He turned to me and said "you'd have been forever 
figuring that one out." Don't ask me why, but I saw it work.

Chuck
WB2EDV



- Original Message - 
From: "Tim Sawyer" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 1:11 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity


>I have a Micor base that was manufactured in the ham band. Model is 
>C64RXB3196A-SP71. The receiver model number is TRE1241A-SP10 (420-450 Mhz). 
>It came with 4 channels all tuned up and on frequency in the ham band. But 
>the receiver is sensitivity is .72 mv for 20 db quieting on the best 
>channel and .9 on the worst. I went through the alignment procedure and 
>could not make any improvement. Obviously this is not meeting the .5 spec 
>and I was expecting more like .3 or so.
>
> So my questions is what should I do to troubleshoot this? Is there some 
> common Micor receiver failure parts or areas that I should be looking 
> into?
> --
> Tim
> :wq

Re: [Repeater-Builder] no power out of duplexer

[Chuck Kelsey]

Sounds like a bad cable/connector. Are there any adaptors or elbows? They 
could be suspect.

Chuck
WB2EDV



- Original Message - 
From: "W3ML" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 9:37 AM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] no power out of duplexer


> Hi,
>
> First, let me say that we are still new to the repeater business and 
> learning as we go. This the first time in 30 ham years that I have been 
> involved with a VHF repeater system.
>
> Our repeater was working okay at 80 watts out of GE Mastr II and 60 watts 
> out of Duplexer. When I turn the power up to 100 out of radio and 80 out 
> of duplexer it seemed to be working okay.
>
> But, now a few hours later there is no power coming out of duplexer at 
> all. Radio still shows power coming out.
>
> Nothing was touch on the duplexer.  Any ideas?
>
> 73
> John, W3ML
> 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor Pin "Gunk"

[Chuck Kelsey]

The station ID adds some real "class" to the video.

Chuck
WB2EDV


- Original Message - 
From: "w9srv" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 1:27 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Micor Pin "Gunk"


> Hi Guys!
>
> I am in the middle of rebuilding a receive site for one of the area 
> repeaters and have come across some interesting "Pin Gunk". I've been told 
> that Motorola techs years ago used to apply some kind of "goo" to help 
> with the connection on all the backplane pins, etc, but I don't know if 
> this is what that is. This receive site has been developing some 
> intermittant issues on several fronts, and maybe this explains them.
>
> The problem with this gunk is that is is non-conductive and a real bugger 
> to clean off. DeOxit seems to work the best. I made this quick video last 
> night showing this on the pins of the power control board. Here is the 
> link to the video:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmWumkQetdY
>
> Has anyone else ever come across this? Are there any other steps other 
> than cleaning it off to ensure it will not be another problem in the 
> future?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Tom
> W9SRV

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Antenna ID

[Chuck Kelsey]

These style antennas are typically poor performers FYI. I wouldn't use it for 
anything important. Cushcraft started the design with their "Ringo" series, 
then several others copied the design. They were inexpensive, which was the 
only good feature.

Chuck
WB2EDV



  - Original Message - 
  From: La Rue Communications 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 4:01 PM
  Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Antenna ID





  I figured this group would be in the know on how to ID an antenna without a 
sticker or any identification numbers engraved on it.

  I have an antenna that I found. It has no stickers of any kind, except for 
the "This will kill you if you touch a wire" sticker on it. Pictures attached 
are all I have. Its an N type connector and is roughly 4 feet in length. Is 
there any way to ID this with your traditional shop equipment?

  Thanks in advance!

  By the way, Kevin Custer, please email me! Thanks!

  John Hymes
  La Rue Communications
  10 S. Aurora Street
  Stockton, CA 95202
  http://tinyurl.com/2dtngmn



  


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02:34:00

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Circular polarization for VHF repeaters?

[Chuck Kelsey]

I would agree that lower gain antennas can make a big difference in some 
instances. Higher gain mean more nulls.

Chuck
WB2EDV


  - Original Message - 
  From: petedcur...@gmail.com 
  To: Repeater-Builder 
  Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 10:38 AM
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Circular polarization for VHF repeaters?




  It looks like the FCC rules give you extra power when opting for dual 
polarization.  Doesn't mean the circular antenna contributes to extra coverage, 
in fact it looks like the extra RF power allowed for the two polarities is 
giving you more coverage?  The web article for which I gave a link was from 
Europe and involved IBC Israel & BBC UK tests and their conclusion was similar 
on Vertical Polarization.  
  Many lack of coverage issues I've seen with extremely high sites is due to 
the use of high gain antennas with little or no down tilt.  I have seen issues 
like this resolved by simply using a lower gain, say going from 10db gain down 
to 7 dB gain and applying 4 - 6 degrees of down tilt.  Lowering the gain widens 
the beam and addition of down tilt puts the major part of the RF signal closer 
in and that improves coverage but it still puts a signal out to the RF horizon.


  Peter






  On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 1:47 AM, JOHN MACKEY  wrote:

  
FM broadcast is NOT changing to vertical polarity!

Most stations today are going on the air with either circular polarity or
cross polarity (consisting of signal in BOTH the vertical and horizontal
poles)

With FCC licensing today, a FM station licensed for 10KW can have 10 KW in 
the
vertical plane and 10 kW in the horizontal plane. So there would be no 
reason
to only have the power in one plane.

In the last 3 years, I have built 2 FM stations. Both used circular or cross
polarity.



-- Original Message --
Received: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 10:32:51 PM PDT
From: petedcur...@gmail.com
To: Repeater-Builder 
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Circular polarization for VHF repeaters?

> Hi,
> I remembered circular polarization was used for FM broadcast due to FM car
> radios, but when I looked it up I found out some interesting facts, see 
the
> link below,
> 
>

https://www.digitaltraders.com/index.php/index.php/components/com_kunena/template/default_ex/templates/ja_edenite/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=57&Itemid=134
> 
>

Interesting
> white paper on FM Broadcast and why they had historically had circular
> polarization and why they are now changing to vertical polarization.
> 
> Peter
> 
> On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 1:22 AM, burkleoj  wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > Gary,
> > I am in Southern Oregon and I understand exactly what you are
experiencing.
> > We have very similar problems down here with our club's repeater. I have
> > often talked about and even done some serious looking at remodeling a 
set
of
> > broadcast loops and harness for 2 Meters.
> >
> > I know there was a southern California repeater back in the 70's that
used
> > circular polarization with excellent results. They were able to provide
much
> > better coverage in their main service area, but did loose some long
distance
> > coverage outside their main coverage area.
> >
> > We have had the best success by using a lower gain antenna. We have been
> > using the Telewave broadband two loop antennas with 2 - 4 degrees of
> > downtilt, for both our 2 Meter and 440 MHz repeaters. I have found much
> > better close in (0-30 Miles) coverage, less muti-path, and they cost 
quite
a
> > bit less than a Super Stationmaster.
> >
> > Good Luck and keep us posted with what you find for results.
> >
> > Joe - WA7JAW
> >
> >
> > --- In

Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com,

> > "Gary - K7EK"  wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Greetings,
> > >
> > > I am in a particularly sticky situation with one of my two meter
> > repeaters in Lakewood, WA (Tacoma). I have generally great coverage,
however
> > there is a very annoying problem with multipath and raspy signals in a
large
> > portion of my coverage area. Since the Puget Sound area of Western
> > Washington is very hilly and mountainous, multipath is very damaging to
all
> > forms of VHF communication.
> >
> > 
> >
> 








  


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02:34:00

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexers

[Chuck Kelsey]

No problem. Most are in non-climate controlled environments.

Chuck
WB2EDV


  - Original Message - 
  From: ka9qjg 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 1:42 PM
  Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexers





  Wow this must of Really been a Dumb question  , No one  answered it

   

  Don KA9QJG 

   

  From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ka9qjg
  Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 9:07 PM
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexers

   



  Since We are on the Topic of Duplexers,  And some claim there is no such 
thing as a Dumb Question but  at the Risk of  Asking one  I will take a chance 
,   I have the Wacom 4 can on My 220 System, 

   

  The Question I have in a non controlled environment such as No Heat or Air 

   

Will the Duplexer have any problems inside with Condensation from Heating 
up in use and Cooling down 

   

  Thanks Don 

   

  KA9QJG 

   

Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Running a Mastr II Repeater QRP

[Chuck Kelsey]

Yes, a screwdriver is your friend.

Chuck
WB2EDV


- Original Message - 
From: 
To: 
Cc: 
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Running a Mastr II Repeater QRP


>
> Installed a MSTR II VHF repeater in a six foot cabinet on top of a 17 
> story building. The elevator got me to the 14th floor but it took 4 of us 
> to get it the other 3 flights. It is possible to haul without a hoist. 
> Next time I do something like this I'm going to remove the repeater and 
> power supply and carry the parts, not the whole repeater.

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Running a Mastr II Repeater QRP

[Chuck Kelsey]

I agree with Jeff 100%.

Chuck
WB2EDV


- Original Message - 
From: "Jeff DePolo" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 5:53 PM
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Running a Mastr II Repeater QRP


>> I don't know the current frequency, but suspect it's in the
>> 460/465 MHz range. Will it move down into the 440s without a
>> lot of grief?
>
> Yes.
>
>> Also, I don't need anywhere near 100 watts, and need to avoid
>> abusing the good nature and power bill of my landlord. (Also
>> hope to have battery backup.) Can the 100-watt UHF PA be
>> jumpered from an intermediate stage to the filter, bypassing
>> the final? I seem to recall these would run at something in
>> the 10-25-watt range with such a mod.
>
> The driver is 40 watts, just bypass the final board.
>
> But if you're really trying to safe your landlord's electric bill, the 
> ferro
> power supply is really what you should be eliminating.  That's a real 
> beast
> of a vampire.
>
>> Or, is this just gross overkill for a local repeater, and the
>> Mitrek-based idea more appropriate?
>
> I'd go with the M2, hands down.
>
> --- Jeff WN3A

Re: [Repeater-Builder] DB212-3

[Chuck Kelsey]

The radio I'm using in the mobile is a GE Orion with a noise blanker. However, 
a noise blanker is designed to help with impulse-type noise. Microprocessor 
hash and similar noise sources are continuous, so I doubt a blanker is very 
effective. The problem, in my mind, is the huge increase in this type of noise 
compared to 20 or 30 years ago.

Chuck
WB2EDV
  - Original Message - 
  From: Oz-in-DFW 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 5:00 PM
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] DB212-3






  On 8/30/2010 2:08 PM, Chuck Kelsey wrote: 
  
 

Doug, what were the State Police using for mobile radios back when you were 
involved? I'm finding that the newer, wider front end, radios don't hear as 
well as the old 0.5-1 MHz wide receivers did. I can hit my 6-meter repeater 
full quieting, yet sometimes can hardly hear it due to mobile environment noise 
that you can't avoid driving past (computers, LAN equipment, etc., etc.)

Chuck
WB2EDV


  I'll bet 99-44/100% of this is the lack of an effective noise blanker.  I was 
running a LB SyntorX 9000 at the peak of the last cycle and it ran rings around 
everything else.  It ran FULL band 10 and 6.  Bench sensitivity of all the 
radios were pretty close, but the moto mobile noise blankers were a major (>> 
10 dB) advantage.   I'll bet those 'old' radios have good noise blankers. 

-- 
mailto:o...@ozindfw.net
Oz
POB 93167 
Southlake, TX 76092 (Near DFW Airport) 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Trip lite

[Chuck Kelsey]

Swap the 723 chip and go from there. You might not need anything more.

Chuck
WB2EDV



  - Original Message - 
  From: Ralph S. Turk 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 3:48 PM
  Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Trip lite





  Anybody out there in radio land have  schematics for
  Trip-lite power supplies.

  I have two PR 25A with different regulator boards.  One works
  the other doesn't.  

  Good ps  14vdc no load  13 vdc full load

  Bad ps15.8 vdc  did not try a load yet.

  Bad unit has an updated regulator board  so I can't compare apples to 
  apples.

  Ralph,  W7HSG





  


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02:35:00

Re: [Repeater-Builder] DB212-3

[Chuck Kelsey]

Doug, what were the State Police using for mobile radios back when you were 
involved? I'm finding that the newer, wider front end, radios don't hear as 
well as the old 0.5-1 MHz wide receivers did. I can hit my 6-meter repeater 
full quieting, yet sometimes can hardly hear it due to mobile environment noise 
that you can't avoid driving past (computers, LAN equipment, etc., etc.)

Chuck
WB2EDV
  - Original Message - 
  From: Doug Rehman 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 3:00 PM
  Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] DB212-3





  Unfortunately it’s been so many years since I handled one that I’m pretty 
foggy on the phasing harness. The manual on Repeater Builder 
http://www.repeater-builder.com/db/pdfs/db-212-assembly-and-mounting-instructions-(andrew).pdf
 shows the feeds from all three elements coming together, but doesn’t give a 
hint as to the length or impedance of each leg.

   

  If the original harness was retained, he should be able to reverse engineer 
it or shorten it if it’s still in good shape.

   

  I’ve got a DB212-1 sitting beside the house now to use on our clubhouse tower 
for a 6m PropNet beacon antenna. Too many projects…

   

  Doug

  K4AC

  (Running for ARRL Southeastern Division Director- please check out my website 
at www.k4ac.com)

   

Re: [Repeater-Builder] DB212-3

[Chuck Kelsey]

Given what you need to do, I'd probably use a single element. The mast needs 
to extend above and below the ends of the element, the further you can, the 
better. I'd probably use a 20' schedule 80 aluminum pipe and center the 
element on it.

Chuck
WB2EDV



- Original Message - 
From: "Tim" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 2:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] DB212-3


> I'm glad somebody brought this up.
>
> I've got 2 of the DB212 antennas, without any phasing harness.
>
> The tower that the repeater is going up on is 90', wide spaced triangular
> tower (about 20' at the bottom & 8' at the top).
>
> I'm just wondering if the work in building the harness, building the
> supports
> (the tower is not vertical, so I will have to 'make' a vertical support
> for them)
> is really worth the effort for an additional element.
>
> Seems I saw that with the 2 element configuration you only get about 2dB
> out of it.
>
> Doesn't seem like all the work is worth it.  The reduced coverage off
> the back of
> the tower is not a concern.
>
> Just thought I'd throw this up into the wind.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tim  W5FN
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>






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02:35:00

Re: [Repeater-Builder] DB212-3

[Chuck Kelsey]

Doug -

Do you know how the phasing harness was constructed for the three-element 
version? I don't, and that's why I suggested to Norm that he go with four - 
the phasing harness is easy.

Or, he could use two elements for transmit and one for receive. I don't know 
how much isolation he'll need, but he might just get away without a duplexer 
if there's enough tower.

Chuck
WB2EDV


- Original Message - 
From: "Doug Rehman" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 2:28 PM
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] DB212-3


> In a previous life I managed the communications for a state police agency. 
> We used 45 MHz for our main system and had forty some odd tower sites, 
> almost all running DB212-3 antennas.
>
> Two of the sites were on 1000+ towers and used a single DB-212 element due 
> to the large tower face and the great height. One was a repeater using a 
> receive antenna at 1450' and a transmit antenna at 1350'. The other was a 
> remote base station with the single loop at about 850'.
>
> As we were an investigative agency, almost all of the mobiles were using 
> AM/FM disguise antennas. (Yeah, I know, but we were stuck with the band 
> that the State Division of Communications had dictated...) Despite the 
> radiating dummy load antennas, we had excellent mobile coverage in 
> virtually all of the state.
>
> A consideration for DB212 antennas is that lining them up on one leg can 
> make them pretty directional.
>
> For towers that were very close to the coast, I would put all three 
> elements on a single leg, but skew them so that only one was pointed 
> directly off of the leg. This seemed to give me a somewhat cardioid 
> pattern, but with a little better pattern to the back than if all three 
> elements were in line.
>
> Another consideration is that they were designed to be used on Rohn 
> 45/55/65 sized tower. If you put them all on one leg, a larger tower face 
> doesn't matter much except that the rearward pattern will likely have a 
> larger null. Mounting them on all three legs of a larger face tower will 
> result in reduced gain and a pretty messed up pattern.
>
> I don't know if I'd worry a whole lot about adding a fourth element- the 
> three element antenna will deliver excellent results.
>
> Doug
> K4AC
> (Running for ARRL Southeastern Division Director- please check out my 
> website at www.k4ac.com)

Re: [Repeater-Builder] DB212-3

[Chuck Kelsey]

I'd suggest using four if you have the tower real estate.

Adjust each element individually on the tower up in the clear (not 
necessarily in the final location, but away from obstructions).

I don't know how the harness was designed for three elements, but making one 
for four is easy. Each pigtail from the element must be the same length. Two 
elements combine with a tee, then a 35-ohm 1/4 wave matching section is 
needed. Do this for both halves of the antenna. Then take two equal lengths 
of 50-ohm cable to a final tee, then another 35-ohm matching section. From 
there it's 50-ohms.

Chuck
WB2EDV


- Original Message - 
From: "NORM KNAPP" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 11:51 AM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] DB212-3


> Took down a set of DB212-3 dipoles in good shape with harness. I want to 
> use them on 6m for a repeater antenna. I also want to add one additional 
> dipole. I guess I will need to modify the harness and the dipoles as they 
> are marked for 35.960 mhz
> I will be mounting all four (or 3) on one leg of a tower that is 4 feet on 
> a face. Is it worth my while to go for the 4th dippole? The loops are 155 
> inches from tip to tip now. Looks like they need to be about 105 inches.
> Anyone with any tips, pointers or advise?
> Thanks
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Maxrad lowband mobile antenna

[Chuck Kelsey]

A discussion with a two-way dealer that I know indicated that the 
base-loaded low-band antennas can be a bit of a challenge to get them to 
"play nice" with the radio. The full-length whips seemed to be better, but 
no one wants one on their vehicle these days.

Back when I ran a Motrac and a full 1/4 wave antenna, it worked well. The 
same dealer states that with the wide frequency coverage of today's radios, 
the performance dropped as the front end lets in more noise than the old 
radios that would only tune about 1 MHz. I would agree. I can be full 
quieting into a repeater, yet have difficulty hearing it because of all the 
desense caused by noise. A noise blanker doesn't help much when it is a 
continuous noise source.

Report back with your findings.

Chuck
WB2EDV



- Original Message - 
From: "tahrens301" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 6:48 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Maxrad lowband mobile antenna


> Hi folks,
>
> I was given a couple of LB mobile antennas, and I have moved them up to 6 
> meters.  (I drilled a hole in the plastic case, and shorted out 2 turns 
> (soldered across them).  It seemed to tune right up to 52 mhz.
>
> However, I noticed that the position on the back deck of my car really 
> made a big difference in it's resonant frequency.
>
> I was using a MFJ259, and in one spot (not centered), I have a perfect
> 1:1 @ 50 ohms - a very pronounced 'dip'.  When I move it around, the swr 
> goes up, and the 'dip' is not as pronounced.  The Bird confirms that the 
> transmitter isn't as happy in other places on the back deck.
>
> The antenna is an effective quarter wave.
>
> Is this indicative of all LB mobile antennas, or just this type?
>
> I remember 'way back when', I used a full quarter wave on my car, and it 
> tuned right up without any funnies.  (big spring & all).
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tim

Re: [Repeater-Builder] dumb question: what is purpose of lock on Mitrek?

[Chuck Kelsey]

It simply locks the cover in place. You'll want a key anyway.

Chuck
WB2EDV




- Original Message - 
From: "KP3FT" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 12:09 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] dumb question: what is purpose of lock on 
Mitrek?


> Hi,
> I know it's a dumb question, but after scouring the internet for info, I 
> find everything about locks and replacement keys for Motorolas and other 
> radios, but I still don't know what locking the Mitrek actually does. 
> Does it kill all power to the radio, or disable certain functions?  I'm 
> asking because I just acquired a low-band Mitrek that I need to power up 
> and verify its working condition.  It doesn't have a control head, so I 
> need to use the front panel pins, but if the radio is locked, I may end up 
> getting nowhere and still not know if it's either the radio that is bad, 
> it is locked out, or I wired it wrong.  This is the first Mitrek I've had. 
> Thanks for any help.
> Jeff KP3FT
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>






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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3100 - Release Date: 08/29/10 
02:34:00

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Narrowband Range -was- Seeking emergency system design help

[Chuck Kelsey]

And there is the issue of PL tone. Keep dropping the modulation level and 
decoding becomes tougher, at least with boards like ComSpec.

Chuck
WB2EDV



- Original Message - 
From: "wb6dgn" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 11:43 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Narrowband Range -was- Seeking emergency 
system design help


OK.  But with that kind of "micro" modulation, you're going to be dealing 
with problems more difficult to solve than frequency stability, though I 
agree that would be one of them.
Tom

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, DCFluX  wrote:
>
> I was talking about 1kHz and 100 Hz deviation, not 2.5kHz.
>
> On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 8:30 PM, wb6dgn  wrote:
> > "As receiver bandwidth narrows, higher frequency stability is required. 
> > Handhelds with ovenized reference oscillators are not very practical."
> >
> > TCXOs are more than adequate to do the job. Typical frequency stability 
> > for a +-5.0kC system is 5ppm. TCXOs of 0.5ppm are common and not 
> > terribly expensive; more than 2.5 times more stable than conventional 
> > wisdom would claim necessary for 6.25kC bandwidth. If you use a good 
> > tight receiver with a reasonably quiet front end, there should be NO 
> > appreciable difference in range; the NB system could even be a bit 
> > better.
> > Tom
> >
> > --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, DCFluX  wrote:
> >>
> >> As receiver bandwidth narrows, higher frequency stability is required.
> >> Handhelds with ovenized reference oscillators are not very practical.
> >>
> >> On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 8:01 PM, Matthew Kaufman  wrote:
> >> > On 8/27/2010 7:33 PM, larynl2 wrote:
> >> >> This has always interested me, and I've never seen a good technical 
> >> >> reason for a loss of range with narrow deviation and receivers, 
> >> >> either. But one must exist. If it didn't, there'd be no 
> >> >> reason not to take analog deviation down to say, 1 kc., or 0.1 kc., 
> >> >> would there?
> >> >
> >> > There are several good references online. A good balance between 
> >> > theory
> >> > and understandability is at:
> >> >
> >> > http://urgentcomm.com/networks_and_systems/mag/narrowbanding-system-coverage-effect-201004/
> >> >
> >> > and
> >> >
> >> > http://www.adcommeng.com/Narrowbanding_for_Technicians.pdf
> >> >
> >> > Essentially as the modulation index goes down, the difference between
> >> > the modulated signal and noise becomes lower, and so more signal
> >> > strength (to better saturate the FM receiver's detector) is required 
> >> > to
> >> > compensate.
> >> >
> >> >> And I don't think that knowing a repeater's tail signal strength 
> >> >> doesn't change is an apples to apples comparison.
> >> > It is all about intelligibility of the modulated signal, not the
> >> > quieting of the unmodulated signal. In fact, for the unmodulated case
> >> > the narrower IF filters make narrowband *better*.
> >> >
> >> > Matthew Kaufman
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > 
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>








Yahoo! Groups Links









No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3098 - Release Date: 08/27/10 
14:34:00

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Seeking emergency system design help

[Chuck Kelsey]

A few years ago I spoke with someone from MA-Com about this and they 
indicated that most of the time users would experience a loss in coverage. I 
don't remember why they said "most of the time," but there must be variables 
somewhere.

Chuck
WB2EDV


- Original Message - 
From: Andrew Seybold
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 9:16 PM
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Seeking emergency system design help





Bill one of the losses if a County fire department system which has 6 
simulcast repeaters( 150 MHz) operating on wide-band with about 85% coverage 
of the County, and we put in three new channels (after almost 2 years of 
coordination and finding the correct channels), we put them up using the 
same sights and same output (50 watts erp) and using the same antennas—the 
new 3 channels under talk the existing wide-band systems by at least 30 
percent. We are in the process of adding 2 new sites to make up the 
difference.

I am  glad that you did not have a problem but this is just one of several 
which I have had a problem with, and I have become a believer in lost 
coverage, I have yet to see a system that has not lost coverage, I am glad 
that you have.

Andy

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Seeking emergency system design help

[Chuck Kelsey]

Well no.. they were talking about the UHF spectrum where 95% of 
the TV moved to. There's very little OTA on low band, a little more on high 
band.

Chuck
WB2EDV


  - Original Message - 
  From: Bill Smith 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 4:39 PM
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Seeking emergency system design help





  Yes... 54-88 MHz cellphones would be cool. Back to the big old rubber ducks. 
LOL.




--

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Seeking emergency system design help

[Chuck Kelsey]

You mean like making all the over-the-air TV stations buy new transmitters 
to go to DTV only to introduce a proposal to take over-the-air frequencies 
away to make them available to wireless (cellphone, etc.)

Chuck
WB2EDV


- Original Message - 
From: "MCH" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 3:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Seeking emergency system design help


> Interesting. A competing dealer is telling everyone they have to be
> using digital by 2013. Yes, of course it's a lie, but they no doubt make
> more on digital systems than they do analog.
>
> On the larger scope, I can't wait to hear the uproar when/if the FCC
> tells everyone who just purchased new SNFM equipment that they have to
> buy new equipment AGAIN.
>
> Joe M.
>
> 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Can a Master 3 narroband

[Chuck Kelsey]

I'm guessing it was permitted back then.

Chuck
WB2EDV



- Original Message - 
From: "MCH" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 3:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Can a Master 3 narroband


> How did they handle this back in the 60s/70s when I remember seeing
> "Adjusted for narrowband +/- 5 kHz" stickers on the radios? Were those
> factory stickers?
>
> Joe M.
>
> Eric Lemmon wrote:
>> Tom,
>>
>> The "narrowbanding kit" produced by Communications Specialists and others 
>> is
>> for the receiver section, and does not affect the transmitter section. 
>> The
>> emission mask specified by the FCC for mandatory narrow band operation 
>> must
>> be incorporated by the equipment manufacturer and then tested by an
>> FCC-approved agency.  This process has never been in the hands of the 
>> owner
>> or user, despite widespread popular belief to the contrary.  Simply 
>> reducing
>> the deviation to a lower setting does not magically make a transmitter
>> narrow band compliant; the limiting circuitry must be modified as well.
>> Moreover, the FCC Type Acceptance for both the MSR2000 and the Mitrek 
>> does
>> not include narrow band (11K2F3E) emissions.  Naturally, these 
>> requirements
>> apply only to commercial usage under Part 90 Rules.
>>
>> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
>> [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Manning
>> Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 10:57 AM
>> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Can a Master 3 narroband
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello Jim
>> I note your message about narrowbanding and the comment about the
>> MSR2000.  I have seen no info on doing so but it seems to me that the 
>> MSR200
>> could be narrowbanded.  The MSR is very similar to the  Mitrek and it can 
>> be
>> narrowbanded by using a kit by a company that slips my mind.  Therefore I
>> feel narrowbanding would be possible.  I will be attempting this in six
>> months or so.   73 de Tom Manning, AF4UG
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: Jim in Waco WB5OXQ 
>> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 10:07 AM
>> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Can a Master 3 narroband
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I have a uhf master 4 that has been used for years as a paging
>> exciter.  Now the pager business is in the tank I would like to make the
>> master 3 into aq repeater for commercial needs to replace a msr2000 
>> because
>> the msr cannot narroband.  If the ge can't either I dont want to waste 
>> time
>> and just buy a new repeater that can narroband.
>> wb5...@grandecom.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 9.0.783 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2746 - Release Date: 03/14/10 
>> 03:33:00
>>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>






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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3097 - Release Date: 08/27/10 
02:34:00

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Seeking emergency system design help

[Chuck Kelsey]

It was Rudy looking, not Chuck. Chuck indicated that it is not legal.

Chuck
WB2EDV



- Original Message - 
From: "n5qs" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 3:11 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Seeking emergency system design help


> Chuck
>
> Please abandon the idea of using D-Star equipment modified for non amateur 
> use.
> First this is ILLEGAL.
> 2nd there is no commercial equipment that I am aware of that is compatible 
> without modification.
>
> I would suggest using Kenwood Nextedge technology.
> This is very similar in performance to the D-Star and has a bandwidth of 
> 6.25 KHz on a simplex radio (Mototurbo can not operate at 6.25 KHz without 
> infrastructure)
> The FCC has already stated that the 6.25 KHz bandwidth is coming they just 
> don't give any date prediction and I would not design a NEW system that 
> did not comply directly with the ability to use this bandwidth.
>
> This is probably the most stable technology in todays market that can be 
> set up with off the shelf equipment.
> I am too far away to help but would be glad to advise any legal way that I 
> can.
>
> Roger
>
>
> --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Kelsey"  
> wrote:
>>
>> I doubt that the D-Star amateur equipment (or any amateur equipment) is
>> type-accepted for where you intend to use them.
>>
>> Chuck
>> WB2EDV
>>
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "rudy_n2wq" 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 1:08 PM
>> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Seeking emergency system design help
>>
>>
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > I am looking for some advice or even a systems integrator who can help 
>> > me
>> > design and implement an emergency communication system for my employer,
>> > using an off-the-shelf repeater and radios.
>> >
>> > My current thinking is to use D-Star radios and a D-star repeater,
>> > modified to work on non-amateur frequencies. Since the radios will be 
>> > in
>> > Manhattan, the idea is to place the repeater in our Newark, NJ office 
>> > and
>> > use directional antennas for the repeater. We are trying to prepare for
>> > the possibility of the entire building being damaged and thus the idea 
>> > to
>> > move the repeater across the river.
>> >
>> > 73, Rudy N2WQ
>>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>






No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3097 - Release Date: 08/27/10 
02:34:00

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Seeking emergency system design help

[Chuck Kelsey]

I doubt that the D-Star amateur equipment (or any amateur equipment) is 
type-accepted for where you intend to use them.

Chuck
WB2EDV


- Original Message - 
From: "rudy_n2wq" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 1:08 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Seeking emergency system design help


> Hello,
>
> I am looking for some advice or even a systems integrator who can help me 
> design and implement an emergency communication system for my employer, 
> using an off-the-shelf repeater and radios.
>
> My current thinking is to use D-Star radios and a D-star repeater, 
> modified to work on non-amateur frequencies. Since the radios will be in 
> Manhattan, the idea is to place the repeater in our Newark, NJ office and 
> use directional antennas for the repeater. We are trying to prepare for 
> the possibility of the entire building being damaged and thus the idea to 
> move the repeater across the river.
>
> 73, Rudy N2WQ

Re: [Repeater-Builder] made a rpt

[Chuck Kelsey]

Correct.


- Original Message - 
From: "Gordon Cooper" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] made a rpt


>   The gentleman's address is Brazil, you need Portugese, not Spanish.
>
> Gordon ZL1KL
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>






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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3087 - Release Date: 08/22/10 
02:35:00

Re: [Repeater-Builder] made a rpt

[Chuck Kelsey]

It is:

Hello everyone anyone have a simple scheme of a controller card that could 
handle two repeater VHF radio plus a link on uhf, 2 and GM300 maxtrac of 
motorola. thanks

Chuck
WB2EDV



- Original Message - 
From: "Rodrigo Lima" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 10:21 AM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] made a rpt


> ola a todos alguem teria um esquema simples de uma placa controladora de 
> repetidora que pudesse controlar dois radios de vhf e mais um link em uhf, 
> sendo 2 gm300 e um maxtrac da motorola .obrigado
>
>
> (moderators note:)
> Can someone post a translation so that the non-spanish peakers can help 
> this gentleman?
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>






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Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3087 - Release Date: 08/22/10 
02:35:00

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Adding capacitors to lower electric bill

[Chuck Kelsey]

Correct. That was the intended route should it happen again with said customer 
- terminate service. Period. After the electric incident, the water was already 
being estimated "in favor of the utility" because that account was showing as a 
stopped meter. Later discovered to be a tampered meter.

Chuck
WB2EDV


  - Original Message - 
  From: Bill Smith 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 1:24 PM
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Adding capacitors to lower electric bill





  The answer is simple. The electric company refuses to provide service to that 
location. Or, installs a tamperproof cover over the meter, relocates the meter 
up on the pole, or installs a new electronic meter. They can also go by 
historical use data for that property and sue the customer for it.




--

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Adding capacitors to lower electric bill

[Chuck Kelsey]

"Like a bad penny, this "urban legend" just keeps coming back." -- Eric 
Lemmon.

Yes, I agree. However, the post that I made (and started all of this again) 
didn't make claim as to whether the "capacitor trick" worked or didn't work. 
I feel that it has no impact, unless you are being billed for reactive 
demand, and most of us are not.

I was simply trying to seek out an individual whom I believe posted about 
this here, some time ago. He insisted that his electric bill at, I believe, 
three repeater sites as well as his house, dropped considerably when he 
added a fixed value capacitor across the line. Again, I had serious doubts 
at the time, but he was adamant about it. Anyway, my recent post was to 
follow up on this guy. What triggered it was the fact that I just ran into a 
ham who had purchased one of the commercially available "energy savers" and 
was questioning it's performance (he didn't think it worked). I asked him if 
the utility meter was electronic or whether it was one of the old spinning 
disk units, to which he said "electronic." I had posed the question about 
altering the PF to an electrical engineer that I know. He gave me all the 
engineering basis like I'd expected, but then added an interesting comment. 
He was uncertain if a spinning disk meter would remain accurate if the PF 
was forced way out of specification - he left that hint of doubt. He then 
said that he was certain that the newer, electronic meters would record 
accurately regardless of the PF.

Now, the guy that was adamant about "beating the system" had indicated that 
in every one of his "experiments" the meter was the older spinning disk 
unit. I suspect that the utility company eventually came out and replaced 
the meters. The guy said that it made a big enough difference that the 
utility had contacted him about the drop in usage.

So, maybe the guy was jerking me (us) around, or maybe the utility installed 
new meters and the "savings" went "poof," or maybe the guy is sitting in 
jail, not able to respond. And maybe it was on a different Yahoo group and 
I'm experiencing brain fade.

I certainly didn't intend to create all the hubbub. But I felt the need to 
jump back in and explain further.

Chuck
WB2EDV 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Adding capacitors to lower electric bill

[Chuck Kelsey]

Well, I tried a search and came up empty. Maybe it was another group. Oh well.

Chuck
WB2EDV




  - Original Message - 
  From: Chuck Kelsey 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 9:24 PM
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Adding capacitors to lower electric bill





  Guess I should have done a message archive search. I didn't mean to start all 
this.

  Chuck
  WB2EDV

- Original Message - 
From: Gary Schafer 
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 5:17 PM
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Adding capacitors to lower electric bill


The guy did ok on the first part explaining how power factor works but fell 
down when it comes to the "save money" part.

The utilities do not charge you extra or give you a break if you do or 
don't have any power factor correction. Unless you are an industrial customer.

 SNIP

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Adding capacitors to lower electric bill

[Chuck Kelsey]

Guess I should have done a message archive search. I didn't mean to start all 
this.

Chuck
WB2EDV

  - Original Message - 
  From: Gary Schafer 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 5:17 PM
  Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Adding capacitors to lower electric bill





  The guy did ok on the first part explaining how power factor works but fell 
down when it comes to the "save money" part.

  The utilities do not charge you extra or give you a break if you do or don't 
have any power factor correction. Unless you are an industrial customer.

   

  I have seen demonstrations at shows where the guy trying to sell consumers 
power factor correction devices had a motor and an ammeter showing current 
draw. He then switches in a capacitor and shows you how the current drops and 
shows you how volts times amps reduces the wattage used.  Only problem is the 
electric meter doesn't care what the power factor is! So the utility will bill 
you the same amount if you use power factor correction or not in your home.

   

  The other thing involved if you are going to do power factor correction is 
that it needs to be done on EACH motor or inductive device. If you just hang a 
capacitor across the main power line of the proper size when all motors are 
running it will correct that. But when a motor or other inductive device is 
shut down and the capacitor is still across the line, now it will have a 
capacitive load rather than an inductive load. Same problem; capacitive current 
that is out  of phase. 

  You can hook a large AC capacitor across your power line and measure the 
current thru it. It may look like you are drawing a lot of power thru it but 
the meter will not see it. Yes it cost the utility more to generate that extra 
current whether it be capacitive or inductive but you don't pay for it. If the 
utility was really worried about it they would give incentives for high power 
factor equipment or they would bill you like they do in industry. We are small 
potatoes to them.

   

  Trying to sell power factor correction to home owners and small business' is 
a scam. You save nothing on your bill!

  73

  Gary  K4FMX

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Adding capacitors to lower electric bill

[Chuck Kelsey]

Yes, I agree with this. The discussion originally centered around doing this 
at repeater sites. I'm just attempting to gather more info from the guy who 
said it "worked."

Chuck
WB2EDV


- Original Message - 
From: "ae6zm" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 12:17 AM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Adding capacitors to lower electric bill


>
>
>
>
>
> When in comes to matters of science, there will always be some who step 
> forward with anecdotal 'evidence' that they have experienced something 
> that contradicts accepted scientific knowledge. Using caps to reduce your 
> power bill is one of those myths. Your power meter is a true watt meter, 
> and is very carefully designed and tested to measure, react to and record 
> only true watts, and not react to reactive power. (pun!!) Yes, installing 
> corrective capacitors can reduce your power bill, but not because it 
> changes your meter reading; it doesn't. For industrial users, a poor PF 
> results in penalty charges from the utility, and improving the PF by 
> adding capacitive VAs ( or KVAs) can reduce the penalties, thereby 
> reducing your bill.
> This is not really a repeater topic, but power bills are a real part of 
> repeater use, so it is useful to understand the real 'science'.
>
> Wes
> AE6ZM & VE7ELE
> GROL/RADAR
> ARRL Technical Specialist
> Lincoln, CA
> CM98iv
>
>
> --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Bon & Hal"  wrote:
>>
>> Bill:
>>
>> Check this out.  Is It possible that  the device might actually reduce 
>> electrical usage?
>>
>> Hal
>>   - Original Message - 
>>   From: Paul Plack
>>   To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
>>   Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 9:27 PM
>>   Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Adding capacitors to lower electric 
>> bill
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>   One company supplying power factor correction capacitors promotes their 
>> use on inductive loads only, where it might be a legitimate claim:
>>
>>   http://www.greenenergycube.com/index.php?support-documentation
>>
>>   73,
>>
>>   Paul, AE4KR
>>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>






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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3084 - Release Date: 08/20/10 
14:35:00

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Intermod Calculation

[Chuck Kelsey]

I agree, if you don't hear anything else in the mix, and it pretty much 
happens for the full length of the page, it's likely a spur on the paging 
transmitter, at least that's what I'd be looking at.

Chuck
WB2EDV



- Original Message - 
From: "MCH" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 10:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Intermod Calculation


> Could be a spur. Can you hear any other audio with the page? (ever)
>
> Joe M.
>
> Tim Sawyer wrote:
>>
>>
>> It seems to pick up most of the page. Occasionally the beginning is
>> missing or it will get just the very end. It always seems to drop at the
>> same time as the page.
>>
>> --
>> Tim
>> :wq
>>
>> On Aug 20, 2010, at 4:38 PM, Chuck Kelsey wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Does the entire page happen, or does it abruptly stop part way through
>>> some
>>> of the time? Partial page would indicate to me that another
>>> transmitter is
>>> in the mix and dropping before the pager does.
>>>
>>> However, I had a situation where there were four paging sites
>>> scattered in
>>> the county on the same frequency and one of the transmitters was 
>>> spurious
>>> and getting into my receiver. In that case, I always heard the entire
>>> page,
>>> but only when that particular transmitter came up.
>>>
>>> Chuck
>>> WB2EDV
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Tim - WD6AWP" mailto:tisawyer%40gmail.com>>
>>> To: >> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com>>
>>> Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 7:27 PM
>>> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Intermod Calculation
>>>
>>> > It occurs whether or not the repeater transmitter is keyed.
>>> >
>>> > --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
>>> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com>, "Jeff DePolo" 
>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Before we get into the math, an important question that needs to be
>>> >> answered
>>> >> is whether or not this mix occurs when your repeater transmitter is
>>> >> unkeyed.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> --- Jeff WN3A
>>> >>
>>> >> > -Original Message-
>>> >> > From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
>>> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com>
>>> >> > [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
>>> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Tim Sawyer
>>> >> > Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 6:36 PM
>>> >> > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
>>> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com>
>>> >> > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Intermod Calculation
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > I have paging intermod from 157.740 Mhz. My receiver is on
>>> >> > 144.540 Mhz. I'm 100% sure there is another transmitter
>>> >> > involved in the mix because sometimes the pager is
>>> >> > transmitting and I have no interference.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > I have an intermod calculator program but it wants all the
>>> >> > known transmitters and the target receiver. But I need to
>>> >> > solve for an unknown transmitter. Is there a way to calculate
>>> >> > the other possible soruce(s)?
>>> >> > --
>>> >> > Tim
>>> >> > :wq
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > 
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>>> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3084 - Release Date: 08/20/10
>>> 14:35:00
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>






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14:35:00







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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Adding capacitors to lower electric bill

[Chuck Kelsey]

That's my take, but someone on here insisted otherwise based on testing he 
had done. I spoke with an electrical engineer who said the same thing, but 
then he wondered out loud if it could be possible if the power factor was 
shifted to an extreme with a spinning disk meter. He opined that an 
electronic meter wouldn't be "fooled." Of course shifting the PF to an 
extreme would be a basis for utility company action.

Chuck
WB2EDV


- Original Message - 
From: "Gary Schafer" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 9:06 PM
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Adding capacitors to lower electric bill


> You won't see any difference. The electric meter reads true power not VA.
>
> 73
> Gary  K4FMX
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-
>> buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Kelsey
>> Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 8:00 PM
>> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Adding capacitors to lower electric bill
>>
>> A while back, maybe a year or two ago, there was a discussion on here
>> where
>> a list member had success adding a capacitor to his electric service 
>> which
>> reduced his bill. It was debated for a while.
>>
>> Anyway, I am wondering if the utility company ever came and replaced the
>> spinning disk meters with electronic versions, and if so, what the 
>> outcome
>> was.
>>
>> Could the original poster respond either here or privately? I just today
>> had
>> a similar discussion with another ham who tried essentially the same 
>> thing
>> with no success - only his was a commercial model, so it cost him
>> considerably more.
>>
>> Chuck
>> WB2EDV
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>






No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3084 - Release Date: 08/20/10 
14:35:00

[Repeater-Builder] Adding capacitors to lower electric bill

[Chuck Kelsey]

A while back, maybe a year or two ago, there was a discussion on here where 
a list member had success adding a capacitor to his electric service which 
reduced his bill. It was debated for a while.

Anyway, I am wondering if the utility company ever came and replaced the 
spinning disk meters with electronic versions, and if so, what the outcome 
was.

Could the original poster respond either here or privately? I just today had 
a similar discussion with another ham who tried essentially the same thing 
with no success - only his was a commercial model, so it cost him 
considerably more.

Chuck
WB2EDV 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Intermod Calculation

[Chuck Kelsey]

Does the entire page happen, or does it abruptly stop part way through some 
of the time? Partial page would indicate to me that another transmitter is 
in the mix and dropping before the pager does.

However, I had a situation where there were four paging sites scattered in 
the county on the same frequency and one of the transmitters was spurious 
and getting into my receiver. In that case, I always heard the entire page, 
but only when that particular transmitter came up.

Chuck
WB2EDV


- Original Message - 
From: "Tim - WD6AWP" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 7:27 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Intermod Calculation


> It occurs whether or not the repeater transmitter is keyed.
>
> --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff DePolo"  wrote:
>>
>>
>> Before we get into the math, an important question that needs to be 
>> answered
>> is whether or not this mix occurs when your repeater transmitter is 
>> unkeyed.
>>
>>
>> --- Jeff WN3A
>>
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
>> > [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim Sawyer
>> > Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 6:36 PM
>> > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
>> > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Intermod Calculation
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I have paging intermod from 157.740 Mhz. My receiver is on
>> > 144.540 Mhz. I'm 100% sure there is another transmitter
>> > involved in the mix because sometimes the pager is
>> > transmitting and I have no interference.
>> >
>> > I have an intermod calculator program but it wants all the
>> > known transmitters and the target receiver. But I need to
>> > solve for an unknown transmitter. Is there a way to calculate
>> > the other possible soruce(s)?
>> > --
>> > Tim
>> > :wq
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>






No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3084 - Release Date: 08/20/10 
14:35:00

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Motorola style Rack "Clip Nuts"

[Chuck Kelsey]

I agree with Skip. I always considered Tinnerman nuts as a one-sided unit, 
often used a few years back in the automotive industry. They also called 
them speed nuts.

Chuck
WB2EDV


- Original Message - 
From: "skipp025" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 4:35 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Motorola style Rack "Clip Nuts"


>
>> Have a look (obviously the stainless one is on the right):
>
>> http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/clips.jpg
>
> I've not heard this model "U", "C", "Clip" Nut ever called
> a Tinnerman, but McMaster-Carr sells it as a Clip-Nut. As
> a general rule I believe Tinnerman Nuts are normally one
> sided.
>
> I call it a U-Style Clip-Nut and they are obviously available
> in many flavors.
>
> http://www.mcmaster.com/#clip-on-nuts/=8hn41l
>
> It's McMaster-Carr so hold on to your wallet... but they do have
> everything.  And they won't send out a Paper Catalog unless you
> have a previously verified connection with some higher authority.
> So use their fairly decent on-line catalog...  They also deserve
> credit for super fast shipping.
>
> cheers,
> s.
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>






No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3083 - Release Date: 08/20/10 
02:35:00

Re: [Repeater-Builder] antenna plan

[Chuck Kelsey]

Then I'd take a DB-224 antenna and point the elements toward your desired 
areas. If you split and mount another antenna elsewhere, you are going to 
create a highly unpredictable pattern with two different radiation centers, 
creating multipath possibilities. At least that's my take.

Chuck
WB2EDV




  - Original Message - 
  From: Paul Holm 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 9:04 AM
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] antenna plan





  Sorry.  VHF.


- Original Message - 
From: Chuck Kelsey 
I didn't answer because I didn't have a good one. I think what you were 
going to try has a high likelihood of not working well. You didn't saw what 
band, as I recall. I'd stick with a single antenna.

Chuck
WB2EDV




  


--



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  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
  Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3083 - Release Date: 08/20/10 
02:35:00

Re: [Repeater-Builder] antenna plan

[Chuck Kelsey]

I didn't answer because I didn't have a good one. I think what you were going 
to try has a high likelihood of not working well. You didn't saw what band, as 
I recall. I'd stick with a single antenna.

Chuck
WB2EDV
  - Original Message - 
  From: Paul Holm 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 10:25 PM
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] antenna plan





  Hopefully it is not uncool to be the first to respond to one's own post.  
I'll take the fact that there was no flood of flames, or naysayers, to indicate 
that my plan is worth attempting.

  So as a follow-up question, I would ask, could anyone offer recommendations 
for a yagi, corner reflector, or other directional antenna, suitable for duplex 
use, with a beamwidth of no less than 30deg and a gain of no less than say 7dB?


  73  Paul

- Original Message - 
From: Paul Holm 
I'm looking for input on an antenna plan.  

I'd like to change to an ellliptical pattern that favors the bigger town in 
the county which is roughly at 270 deg west and about 6 miles away.  

I'd like to take a yagi or corner reflector and mount it lower, at the 
railing or a short distance up the mast, and point it at the town I'd like to 
focus on






  


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  Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3082 - Release Date: 08/19/10 
14:35:00

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Polyphaser Question

[Chuck Kelsey]

And to not create (or leave) a path for current flow to destroy equipment.

Chuck
WB2EDV
  - Original Message - 
  From: Gary Schafer 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 8:39 PM
  Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Polyphaser Question





  Here is a little primer on lightning:

   [SNIP]

  The whole idea is to keep everything at the same voltage level when a strike 
occurs. 

   

  73

  Gary  K4FMX

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Polyphaser Question

[Chuck Kelsey]

Well, at least we can say you've lost some PolyPhasers in the process. 
Whether they've helped is anyone's guess.  Yes, I've got some equipment in 
different locations with what I feel "less than adequate" protection. My 
point was essentially making people aware that by simply putting a 
suppression device on a single I/O port, while others receive none, and a 
poor grounding system, isn't going to give a high level of protection. If 
one chooses to proceed knowing this, then that's a personal decision.

Chuck
WB2EDV



- Original Message - 
From: "Joe" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Polyphaser Question


> Better than a fraction of a percent protection.  I've lost a couple of
> polyphasors in the years, but never had lightning damage.  I'm a
> realist, everything isn't perfect all of the time.
>
> 73, Joe, K1ike
>
> 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Polyphaser Question

[Chuck Kelsey]

OK, yes, you have severely limited your chances of being protected. I'd 
hazard a guess that it would be a fraction of a percent better than having 
no protection at all. Your condom has a hole in it ;-)

Chuck
WB2EDV


- Original Message - 
From: "Joe" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Polyphaser Question


>I don't think that you have necessarily wasted your time, but you have
> severely limited your chances of decreasing lightning damage.  It's like
> replacing 3 tires on your car that has 4 bad tires, you've bettered your
> odds but it is not the best fix.
>
> I have a site that the owner would throw me off if I started installing
> single;e point grounding and all kinds of wiring.  I use a grounded
> Polyphasor in hopes that it will decrease my odds of lightning damage.
> Yes, the purist will say that this is wrong, but it's not my site and
> I'm a guest.  That's the deal and I accept it.
>
> It's a case of something is better than nothing.
>
> 73, Joe, K1ike
>
> On 8/17/2010 10:42 PM, Chuck Kelsey wrote:
>> Leave one unprotected path available and
>> you've wasted your time.
>>
>> Chuck
>> WB2EDV

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Polyphaser Question

[Chuck Kelsey]

Actually Eric brings up the more important aspect of lightning protection. 
Simply installing a PolyPhaser on your antenna line won't cut it. A 
single-point grounding panel where your transmission lines, power, 
telephone, etc. are all run through protective devices and then are tied in 
to a ground "system" is necessary. Leave one unprotected path available and 
you've wasted your time.

Chuck
WB2EDV


- Original Message - 
From: "Eric Lemmon" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 9:53 PM
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Polyphaser Question


> Mike,
>
> Perhaps the best course is to choose the unit with the highest Joule 
> rating
> that meets your power level and frequency ratings.  Do not buy a 
> DC-blocked
> unit if you don't need that feature, because the capacitor is usually the
> first component to fail.  Do not buy a used unit, because it was pulled 
> from
> service for a reason- probably because the gas tube has reached the end of
> life due to multiple firings.  Finally, be certain that you have a robust
> grounding connection from the PolyPhaser to Mother Earth; do not depend on
> the "green wire" conductor in the power cord to provide this connection.
>
> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
>
> 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Polyphaser Question

[Chuck Kelsey]

Wasn't there a capacitor too? Seems like there was in one I saw open.

Chuck
WB2EDV

  - Original Message - 
  From: David Jordan 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 4:44 PM
  Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Polyphaser Question





  I recently opened up a Polyphaser unit we used on one of our remote sites. it 
covered both 2m and 70cm.  We were experiencing poor receive at the site.  
Replaced the unit and receiver sensitivity is once again hot.  Anyone want pics 
of the insides respond direct and I'll ship you the photos.not much to see. a 
gas tube and what looks like a surface mount resistor in series with the gas 
tube.

   

  73,

  Dave

  Wa3gin

   

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Polyphaser Question

[Chuck Kelsey]

Usually, from any reports I've seen, they can exhibit higher than normal VSWR 
and/or loss if they've seen better days. So, yes, they could still pass RF and 
not be good.

Chuck
WB2EDV



  - Original Message - 
  From: Michael Ryan 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 3:02 PM
  Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Polyphaser Question





  Chuck, Thanks for that.wouldn't still pass RF if they are blown will they?  - 
m

   

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Polyphaser Question

[Chuck Kelsey]

If you are buying used, buyer beware. They could be shot.

Chuck
WB2EDV



  - Original Message - 
  From: Michael Ryan 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 11:12 AM
  Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Polyphaser Question





  Thanks a lot.I see them on QTH.com for sale once in a while. I just posted an 
ad looking for one. '73, Mike

   

  From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of petedcur...@gmail.com
  Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 11:03 AM
  To: Repeater-Builder
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Polyphaser Question

   



  Hi Michael,

   

  Probably  for 220MHZ  choose between VHF50HN-ME for high powered TX or 
multiple TX'sand  a   IS-B50LN-C0-MA is  for a single normal power TX.
These have the N connectors sexed as you want.Check the power rating of 
each device at your frequency.

   

  Peter

   

  On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 2:51 AM, Michael Ryan  
wrote:



   

   I notice when looking at the Polyphaser website, there are a wide range of 
products, even a wide variety of items that on the surface appear to be suited 
to my particular needs. I want to put a Polyphaser on my 220 repeater. There 
are DC blocked and unblocked. I don't suppose it matters in that area as there 
is no DC going up the coax.  There are freq ranges, 1.5-400  and 100 - 700 mhz, 
etc, etc..  Is it best to select a model that places my operating freq 
somewhere in the middle of the unit's operating range or does that matter as 
long as it IS WITHIN the range of the device someplace?  I need the protected 
end to be an N-female and the antenna end to be and N-Male.   Suggestions?  - 
Mike



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02:35:00

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: unsubscribe (reading yahoo group posts - a butter way - no popcorn)

[Chuck Kelsey]

I'm the opposite. I want all my email dumped in one inbox. I'm afraid if it 
gets sorted to different folders, something's bound to get missed. Just like 
the mailman puts all my snail mail in one mailbox. Works just fine. Same 
reason I prefer list servers to forums - I don't want to have to go and look 
somewhere.

Chuck
WB2EDV


- Original Message - 
From: "Nate Duehr" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 8:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: unsubscribe (reading yahoo group posts - 
a butter way - no popcorn)


>
> On Aug 14, 2010, at 12:57 PM, Scott Zimmerman wrote:
>
>> I am subscribed to all of my groups in 'single e-mail' form. I have
>> configured Thunderbird to sort those groups into individual folders. By
>> doing this, I can look at things in a digest mode. If I want to get rid
>> of a bunch at one clip, I can select all and hit delete.
>>
>> Just my 2c worth of ideas.
>>
>> Scott
>
> I agree with Scott, and take this one step further.  I use an IMAP server 
> (the real deal, not Microsoft's wacked-out IMAP in Exchange), and have the 
> *server* sort all the mail into folders before it ever even gets looked at 
> by my mail client software.
>
> 

[Repeater-Builder] Cable lengths

[Chuck Kelsey]

Here's an excerpt from a TX RX publication that ties in with this 
discussion"

"Adverse cable length between Duplexer and transmitter using varactor or 
broadband hybrid combining type
transmitter outputs. Even though the Duplexer VSWR is flat on frequency, the 
reflected impedance of the
Duplexer off resonance, transformed by changing cable lengths, can cause 
parasitics to be generated.

Change the length of cable between the transmitter and duplexer, traversing 
through a half wave in increments of between 1 and 2 inches until the 
desensitization ceases or is minimal. A ferrite isolator will also cure this 
condition when it is installed between the transmitter and duplexer. 
However, this is a much more expensive remedy."


Chuck
WB2EDV 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Coax length, etc.

[Chuck Kelsey]

FWIW,

TX/RX Systems talks about "adverse length" cable between the transmitter and 
the duplexer in their technical papers.

Chuck
WB2EDV



- Original Message - 
From: "Jeff DePolo" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 8:44 AM
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Coax length, etc.


>> Because the impedance is not matched between the transmitter
>> and duplexer, the 'apparent' loss of the duplexer is greater
>> than the manufacturers stated loss of the duplexer.  Changing
>> the cable length is not changing the loss of the duplexer,
>> it's changing the power that is accepted at the transmitter
>> port of the duplexer by matching the output impedance of the
>> transmitter to the input impedance of the transmitter port of
>> the duplexer.
>
> But if the duplexer is tuned to 50 ohms, and the cable is 50 ohms, varying
> the cable length isn't going to change the Z seen by the transmitter.  Or
> are you suggesting the duplexer is purposely de-tuned from 50 ohms?
>
>>   And also that by varying the cable length between the
>> transmitter and the duplexer that you can vary the reflected
>> power on that same line?
>>
>>
>> Yes.
>
> With all due respect, that's not possible, regardless of what the Z is of
> the duplexer.  The only time it could have an effect on the reflected 
> power
> would be if the transmitter/PA were spurious, and the amplitude/frequency 
> of
> the spurs changed with varying load Z, and I think we can both agree that 
> if
> that's the case, we have bigger fish to fry.
>
> Not to belabor the point, but whatever the VSWR is on a length of
> transmission line, that's the VSWR that's on the line *regardless of
> length*.  You can't change the VSWR by changing the length of the line. 
> As
> you vary the length, you go round n' round the Smith Chart in a constant
> VSWR circle, with the Z repeating cyclicly every half-wavelength, but 
> you've
> still got a complex Z that nets a 1:5:1 VSWR relative to 50 ohms at the 
> end
> of whatever length of line you choose (cable loss effects 
> notwithstanding).
> There are an infinite number of complex Z's that yield a 1.5:1 VSWR - cut
> the line to any random length and you'll hit one of them.
>
>> In a situation where the duplexer and transmitter have
>> differing impedances, and a cable optimized in length matches
>> these impedances, the mismatch at the duplexer is minimized,
>> therefore the power reflected by the duplexer is minimized.
>
> I think what you're really saying is that the mismatch at the *input to 
> the
> matching section* (i.e. the cable between the PA and the duplexer), NOT 
> the
> mismatch at the duplexer, is minimized.  The duplexer's input Z isn't
> changing; you can't change that unless you re-tune the cavities or change
> the load at the antenna port.  Whether or that the transmitter
> likes/dislikes the different Z it sees as you change cable lengths is, I
> guess, what's up for debate...
>
>> I have found that when you get a transmitter that is 'picky'
>> about the length of interconnecting cable, power being read
>> at the output port of the duplexer is low and you cannot
>> alter the tuning of the cavity closest to the transmitter to
>> make things right.  In other words, the place where lowest
>> VSWR and maximum power transfer occurs is at two completely
>> different places, and power transfer is not up where it
>> should be (transmitter makes 100 watts into a dummy load but
>> only shows 50 watts on the output port of the duplexer that
>> has a stated 1.5 dB loss (29 %)).
>
> That would imply that either duplexer is presenting a load Z substantially
> far removed from 50+j0, OR the transmitter doesn't like a 50 ohm load, or
> something inbetween, would it not?
>
>> As you get close to the
>> 'optimum' cable length, the lowest VSWR and maximum power
>> transfer occur near the same place when tuning the cavity
>> closest to the transmitter.
>
> But again, *you're NOT changing the VSWR*!  You can't change the VSWR by
> varying the length of the line!  I just want to make sure we're on the 
> same
> page - the VSWR on a transmission line doesn't vary with length (loss
> notwithstanding).
>
>> I usually pay more attention to what is coming out the
>> antenna port of the duplexer - first.  Then, when things are
>> right, comparing forward power going to the duplexer and
>> power going to a good dummy load will be very close the same,
>> since matching the impedance of the transmitter to the
>> impedance of the duplexer was accomplished by some means.
>
> Can you give me some real-world examples of what combinations of duplexers
> and transmitters you've run across that just didn't want to "play nice"
> without having to resort to changing cable lengths?  Like a highband Micor
> 110 watt H split paired with a Q2220E or whatever.  I'm just curious if 
> I've
> done any of the same combinations.
>
> I think you know me well enough by now Kevin that I'm not looking to pick 
> a
> fight, I'm just a hard-ass when it comes to

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Strange noise on our club repeater

[Chuck Kelsey]

Sounds like intermod involving your repeater's transmitter as part of the 
mix.

Chuck
WB2EDV


- Original Message - 
From: "Robert" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 7:32 AM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Strange noise on our club repeater


> We have a MSR2000 for our club repeater. Every so often on a weak signal 
> we get a noise that sounds like...well you know when you go to the dentist 
> and get your teeth cleaned. The little tube that they put in your mouth 
> and sucks all the spit out.  Wel... that is on the tail of some 
> signals, sometimes. (sorry for the gross analogy ;-) This only happens a 
> few times a day and not often on a stronger signal.  When the user unkeys, 
> it will have the "sucking sound" for a second or sometimes a few 
> seconds...then the squelch closes.  The user has unkeyed...but the 
> repeater stays keyed up with the noise.  We know that there are some 
> strong signals near by the input.  Also with the input at 144.61... 
> there is a DStar repeater with a input of 144.60 up the road by 30 miles 
> or so.  Also... we have pretty fair amount of APRS traffic in the area 
> (digi about 8 miles away).
>
> Ideas?
> Robert
> KD4YDC
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: OT: Licensing Exam Info

[Chuck Kelsey]

The other potential problem would be where the test centers are located. I 
went to the site, but didn't find site locations. Maybe you get to a 
location after you keep drilling down on a particular test, but I only went 
a few screens in.

Anyway, the VE's are all over the place. The test centers could involve 
considerable drive time - not a good thing when you are trying to encourage 
someone to get a license.

Chuck
WB2EDV



- Original Message - 
From: "lenaw12" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 11:54 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: OT: Licensing Exam Info


> Be careful what you wish for...a Ham license has "no value" so the VE's 
> can only charge their "actual expenses" for administering the test...here 
> in the east it is around $15...ProMetric probably wouldn't let you walk in 
> the door for $15.
>
> The FCC is no longer in the "exam business" so it doesn't want to spend 
> any money developing tests, keeping them current, administering them or 
> "certifying" the testers...Ham Radio is a "self policed" holder of 
> valuable spectrum...by administering their own exams, hams are showing the 
> responsibility exists to have the privilege of holding RF spectrum.
>
> I just went to the ProMetric site
> http://www.register.prometric.com/Index.asp
>
> and ran through some of the pricing, the Microsoft tests are $60 and the 
> SunSystems are $500
>
> I appreciate our VE's (and they flunked me on my last unstudied, dry run 
> at Extra)
>
> LW
>
> --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Nate Duehr  wrote:
>>
>> Side-comment: As a pilot and IT person, I've been taking tests for both 
>> at professional testing locations like ProMetric now for at least a 
>> decade.
>>
>> With the removal of the Code, I've always wondered why the FCC hasn't 
>> gone the way the FAA did, and dropped the need for the VE's altogether. 
>> Just send people to the various "testing centers" around the world, and 
>> be done with it.
>>
>> Even most of my other volunteer organizations have moved the majority of 
>> their testing online (to their own websites, but those are open-book 
>> tests... so no need to have a test proctor, like the professional testing 
>> facilities have, and video cameras recording you).
>>
>> --
>> Nate Duehr
>> n...@...
>>
>> facebook.com/denverpilot
>> twitter.com/denverpilot

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Another stolen repeater (California)

[Chuck Kelsey]

My bad. Not paying close enough attention.

Chuck
WB2EDV



- Original Message - 
From: "Eric Lemmon" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 8:31 PM
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Another stolen repeater (California)


> Chuck,
>
> Negative.  The contact info you just posted was regarding an Agilent model
> E4405B Spectrum Analyzer.  My posting was regarding "Another Stolen
> Repeater" with which David Nuechterlein has no connection.
>
> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Kelsey
> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 5:21 PM
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Another stolen repeater (California)
>
>
>
> The contact info was in the original post. It is:
>
> David Nuechterlein
> Q-TV , WDCQ TV 15 PBS , WUCX 90.1 NPR
> Delta College / Delta Broadcasting , Engineering Dept A045
> Frank N. Andersen Broadcast Building
> 1961 Delta Rd.
> University Center Michigan 48710
> 989 686 9341 Office
> 989 326 0051 Mobile Office
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Eric Lemmon" mailto:wb6fly%40verizon.net> >
> To:  <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> >
> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 8:13 PM
> Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Another stolen repeater (California)
>
>> Gee,
>>
>> It would be VERY helpful if the actual Telecom Service Number and the
>> actual
>> CDF Property Number were provided, up front, along with a TELEPHONE 
>> NUMBER
>> to report finding this unit!
>>
>> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>






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02:34:00

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Another stolen repeater (California)

[Chuck Kelsey]

The contact info was in the original post. It is:

David Nuechterlein
Q-TV , WDCQ TV 15 PBS , WUCX 90.1  NPR
Delta College / Delta Broadcasting ,  Engineering Dept A045
Frank N.  Andersen Broadcast Building
1961 Delta Rd.
University Center Michigan  48710
989 686 9341 Office
989 326 0051 Mobile Office



- Original Message - 
From: "Eric Lemmon" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 8:13 PM
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Another stolen repeater (California)


> Gee,
>
> It would be VERY helpful if the actual Telecom Service Number and the 
> actual
> CDF Property Number were provided, up front, along with a TELEPHONE NUMBER
> to report finding this unit!
>
> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
>

[Repeater-Builder] Stolen Equipment Alert

[Chuck Kelsey]

>From another list:


> Last Thursday , 8-5-2010  We had a Agilent model E4405B  Spectrum
> Analyzer boosted (Stolen) from our transmitter Facility (Chalet
> Building) here on Delta  College  Campus Near Bay City Michigan .No
> forcible entry and no other items taken other then a box of coax
> adaptors for the analyzer. This happen during the day between 9 am and
> 6 pm . The serial number is MY41440418. Our thoughts are that someone
> knew the entry code and knew what the Agilent was .
> 
> 
>  If for some chance you hear of a spectrum analyzer for sale please
> inquire on it or just contact me and let me know so I can forward it
> on to the police . The replacement cost is 31,000 dollars . I have
> contacted Agilent and notified them of the theft and I have a E-bay
> search out also ...I will check Craig's list as time allows . If you
> have any other sources that deal's with used equipment for sale .I
> would appreciate if you would forward this information on to them or
> keep your eyes open for it .
> 
> 
> I am hoping the insurance will cover this as I will sorely miss this
> wonderful Diagnostic tool .  Ours had
> a built in signal generator option and had a grey protection cover for
> the front .
> 
> 
>
> Thanks 
> 
 
> David Nuechterlein 
> 
> Q-TV , WDCQ TV 15 PBS , WUCX 90.1  NPR
> 
> Delta College / Delta Broadcasting ,  Engineering Dept A045
> 
> Frank N.  Andersen Broadcast Building
> 
> 1961 Delta Rd.
> 
> University Center Michigan  48710
> 
> 989 686 9341 Office
> 
> 989 326 0051 Mobile Office

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: TKR-750 Crunchy/Grungy Weak Signal Audio

[Chuck Kelsey]

I'd still start with changing the cable and getting all LMR-400 (or similar) 
out of the system - no jumpers, etc.

There are people who will tell you that they've gotten away using this type 
of cable, but the manufacturers admit it's not a low PIM cable. And I've 
seen it cause problems time and time again. If it's not the problem now, it 
likely will be later.

Chuck
WB2EDV



- Original Message - 
From: "Bob - AF6D" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:10 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: TKR-750 Crunchy/Grungy Weak Signal Audio


> No, they use hard line.
>
> Other suggestions is a repeater output 15KHz off of our input that is 
> pulling the receive over. I've got hard line just no time. We were buried 
> under snow for months and then when it cleared my daughter started chemo. 
> No time. But I'll have to make time.
>
> --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Kelsey"  
> wrote:
>>
>> Probably the LMR-400 cable is the cause. Well documented and discussed 
>> here
>> regularly. Are the other repeaters with the same problem also using the 
>> same
>> type cable?
>>
>> Chuck
>> WB2EDV

Re: [Repeater-Builder] TKR-750 Crunchy/Grungy Weak Signal Audio

[Chuck Kelsey]

Probably the LMR-400 cable is the cause. Well documented and discussed here 
regularly. Are the other repeaters with the same problem also using the same 
type cable?

Chuck
WB2EDV



- Original Message - 
From: "Bob - AF6D" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 4:46 AM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] TKR-750 Crunchy/Grungy Weak Signal Audio


> My 2 meter TKR has worked fine for about a year but has always had a 
> problem on our frequent weak signals. We're a mountain community and 
> CERT/RACES/ARES/Skywarn users are often on HT's. There are a couple of 
> towers in the neighborhood at 6,400 feet over southern California (it's 
> kewl living at a repeater site) and on my own gear I don't hear anything 
> on a weak signal beyond the norm. But on the TKR it just sounds dirty. 
> Grungy. Crunchy. There are commercial sites within one mile with high 
> power paging but we've detected no intermod. We did have a bout were 
> grungy audio was breaking PL and hanging until timeout. But that went 
> away. The Wacom 6 cavity WP-642 is tuned dead on and offers excellent 
> isolation and rejection (at a cost of 2-3dB loss on TX ).
>
> Another TKR user at a high elevation commercial site reports similar 
> experiences. Yet another TKR owner reported that his is excellent and yes 
> the audio is good. Just not for us on weak signals. He suggested perhaps 
> an RFI issue but from where?
>
> Our installation is modest and constrained only by my lack of time and 
> funds. My daughter is sick and I live in a hospital with her, so be gentle 
> HI HI. The very large guard dog watches the house.
>
> The antenna is a Hustler G5-144 tuned with a MFJ 259, dead on and above 
> the repeater through an insulated roof by about 30 feet. We have no 
> desense. It is fed with LMR-400 just because I haven't put hard line on 
> it. No preamps are installed. At 6,400 feet not much is needed. The 
> receiver is .18uV. The TKR hears very well compared to my FT-847 with an 
> antenna 20 feet lower.
>
> Why the grungy audio?
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>






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13:57:00

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Coax length

[Chuck Kelsey]

Keep in mind that duplexer manufacturers used to routinely use single 
shielded (RG-213) cables to make up harnesses. They worked. So Bob's testing 
doesn't surprise me.

Chuck
WB2EDV


- Original Message - 
From: 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 10:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Coax length


> At 8/4/2010 14:37, you wrote:
>
>> Doug Hutchison  wrote:
>> > Does the length of coax connecting cable between repeater and filters
>> > matter?
>> >
>> > Doug
>> >
>>As long as the filters are working correctly, the cable length  from the
>>duplexers to the radios tx and rx does not matter. Having said that,
>>remember that the shortest length of double shielded coax or HELIAX cable
>>that will reach without kinks or physcial loads (binds) on the connectors
>>should be used. This has nothing to do with impedeance matching, but
>>rather cross talk thru cable leakage.
>
> Double-shielded cables aren't going to leak enough to be a concern.  You 
> do
> want to keep the length short to minimize loss.
>
> BTW, I once measured the isolation between a pair of ordinary RG-58 cables
> on a VNA from 50 to 500 MHz.  Unless the cables were twisted together, I
> didn't see any coupling between them down to at least -90 dB.  When they
> were twisted together, I think there was ONE frequency around 500 MHz 
> where
> there was -65 dB coupling.
>
>>  On this same note (and knowing I'm going to stur up a hornets nest) I
>> strongly advise against using the LMR type cables for ANY full duplex
>> system. Any double sheilded cable which uses dissimular metals in the 2
>> (or more) shields will eventually cause rf noise .
>
> No argument here.
>
> Bob NO6B

[Repeater-Builder] ID on GE Board

[Chuck Kelsey]

Re-sending because I never saw my post come through. You may see it twice.

Chuck
WB2EDV


I believe it may be this:

http://www.repeater-builder.com/ge/lbi-library/lbi-4982c.pdf

Chuck
WB2EDV


  - Original Message - 
  From: Steve Denbow
  To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 12:04 AM
  Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Help ID'ing this board




  Hello Group!

  I have this board (the one on the RIGHT) in a high band MASTR II station 
operating as a 2M repeater.  The board on the LEFT is out of a sister 
station, which I have information on.  I can not find information on this 
board (RIGHT) doing a search of the LBI's on the RB site.  A Google search 
only comes up with a MASTR Exec II vehicular repeater, which none of the 
boards in it resemble this board.  It appears to have a preamp built into 
it, and is part of the receiver IF section, but that's about all I can 
figure out looking at it.  Any help would be appreciated!  Thanks in 
advance!

  Steve KD8BIW
  KD8BIW/R 224.580 PL 110.9
  Sponsors: KA8GKT, KD8FTR, KD8IYX
  http://www.kd8biw.com

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help ID'ing this board

[Chuck Kelsey]

I believe it may be this:

http://www.repeater-builder.com/ge/lbi-library/lbi-4982c.pdf

Chuck
WB2EDV


  - Original Message - 
  From: Steve Denbow 
  To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 12:04 AM
  Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Help ID'ing this board




  Hello Group!
   
  I have this board (the one on the RIGHT) in a high band MASTR II station 
operating as a 2M repeater.  The board on the LEFT is out of a sister station, 
which I have information on.  I can not find information on this board (RIGHT) 
doing a search of the LBI's on the RB site.  A Google search only comes up with 
a MASTR Exec II vehicular repeater, which none of the boards in it resemble 
this board.  It appears to have a preamp built into it, and is part of the 
receiver IF section, but that's about all I can figure out looking at it.  Any 
help would be appreciated!  Thanks in advance!

  Steve KD8BIW
  KD8BIW/R 224.580 PL 110.9
  Sponsors: KA8GKT, KD8FTR, KD8IYX
  http://www.kd8biw.com
   






  


--



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10:22:00

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Dissasembly of msr 2000 continuous duty amp. How?

[Chuck Kelsey]

Motorola didn't do anyone any favors with that design. Same thing on the Micor 
PA.

Chuck
WB2EDV


  - Original Message - 
  From: Kevin Custer 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 8:29 PM
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Dissasembly of msr 2000 continuous duty amp. 
How?




  radi...@aol.com wrote: 
OK Kevin,
I had already tried the desoldering with a really good Pace unit, but the 
heat did not transfer well. I will get a buddy to help and use my  Weller guns. 
I have a big 250 watt one here somewhere.
Marty


  Let us know how you make out - or, if you need more help...

  Kevin

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Narrowbanding

[Chuck Kelsey]

How wide is it?

Chuck
WB2EDV


- Original Message - 
From: "wd8chl" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 10:58 AM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Narrowbanding


 > ...or that think the US DTV standard fits in a 6 MHz 
> channel...NOT!

Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Dispatcher injured by lightning strike

[Chuck Kelsey]

Often times it's a well-meaning individual that simply doesn't understand 
(like me - LOL) and there are plenty of inspectors out there that don't know 
either. The corporate reasons for doing things wrong speak for themselves. 
Life is full of mis-information.

Chuck
WB2EDV


- Original Message - 
From: "Doug Hutchison" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 3:26 PM
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Dispatcher injured by lightning strike


> Yup...thats just what I mean...experts.bah humbug!!
>
> D
>
> 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Dispatcher injured by lightning strike

[Chuck Kelsey]

And I only see it getting worse as everyone 'has' to cut corners/costs.

Chuck
WB2EDV



- Original Message - 
From: "Doug Hutchison" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 12:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Dispatcher injured by lightning strike


> What concerns me more than anythingso many experts yet this sort of
> thing still happens...(in many fields)!!!
>
> Hindsight is great!!
>
> D
>
>
> On 01/08/2010 17:24:18, Chuck Kelsey (wb2...@roadrunner.com) wrote:
> > Care to hazard a guess on the percentage of facilities (radio/tv,
> two-way)
> >
> > that
> > aren't done right?
> >
> > A few years ago this happened near here - a radio personality wearing
> > headphones taken to the hospital following a lightning strike to the
> tower
> > outside the radio station.
> >
> > Chuck
> > WB2EDV
> >
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Eric Lemmon" 
> > To: 
> > Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 11:42 AM
> > Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Dispatcher injured by lightning
> strike
> >
> >
> > > Whenever I read a report like this, I have mixed emotions. I am
> surprised
> > > that the injury occurred, which is impossible if the facility was
> properly
> > > designed and islanded in accordance with numerous standards, including
> > > NFPA
> > > 70, NFPA 780, and the Motorola R56 Manual. I am also angry that an
> > > official
> > > issued the statement that "...the communications system, including its
> > > 400-foot radio tower, are grounded in accordance with industry safety
> > > standards." That official, and the idiots who designed the
> communications
> > > center, should be fired and/or brought up on criminal charges.
> > >
> > > The key to a safe installation
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>






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02:34:00

Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Dispatcher injured by lightning strike

[Chuck Kelsey]

Care to hazard a guess on the percentage of facilities (radio/tv, two-way) 
that aren't done right?

A few years ago this happened near here - a radio personality wearing 
headphones taken to the hospital following a lightning strike to the tower 
outside the radio station.

Chuck
WB2EDV


- Original Message - 
From: "Eric Lemmon" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 11:42 AM
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Dispatcher injured by lightning strike


> Whenever I read a report like this, I have mixed emotions.  I am surprised
> that the injury occurred, which is impossible if the facility was properly
> designed and islanded in accordance with numerous standards, including 
> NFPA
> 70, NFPA 780, and the Motorola R56 Manual.  I am also angry that an 
> official
> issued the statement that "...the communications system, including its
> 400-foot radio tower, are grounded in accordance with industry safety
> standards."  That official, and the idiots who designed the communications
> center, should be fired and/or brought up on criminal charges.
>
> The key to a safe installation at a location with an on-site tower is to
> ensure that all utilities pass through a "window" where a common ground
> reference exists.  Ideally, the tower should be right next to the 
> facility,
> so that the same ground reference is used for both.  The power transformer
> that feeds the control room should be in that room, not hundreds of feet
> away, and the secondary neutral of that transformer should be bonded to 
> the
> same ground that is used by the telephones, radio system, cable TV,
> satellite system, and raised-floor supports.  If executed properly, the
> design of the control room creates a Faraday Cage within which all 
> occupants
> are safe from injury due to GPR (Ground Potential Rise) from a nearby
> lightning strike.  Likewise, all the electronics within the control room 
> are
> protected against surge damage.
>
> It is obvious from the news report that the dispatcher was injured because
> her headset was at a different potential from her body.  The GPR resulting
> from lightning striking the tower led to thousands of volts difference
> between the radio control system (the headset) and the floor and counter 
> in
> the control room- and the chair she was sitting in.  It is also obvious 
> that
> this difference in potential could not exist if the tower and the adjacent
> control room were grounded in accordance with industry safety standards.
> Some common sense and credible engineering skills are essential elements 
> in
> a proper control room design.
>
> Many moons ago (late 60's), I was Chief Engineer at radio station WLRW, a 
> 50
> kW FM station at Champaign-Urbana, Illinois.  During my watch, the station
> control room was relocated to a building next door.  It was my job to
> supervise the cabling installation within the building and to the
> transmitter at the base of the tower, which was just over 100 feet away.
> All of the remote circuits and network feeds came through a grounding 
> window
> that was common with the power and the tower grounding system.  I remember
> arguing with the Illinois Power foreman about how we needed a separate
> transformer to power the station, and it had to be installed right at the
> side of the control room and not in a vault several hundred feet away. 
> The
> value of designing the entire installation to comply with established
> industry standards and sound engineering practices was proven many times,
> when the tower was struck by lightning during a storm, and no damage or
> injury occurred.  Although the station was on automation most of the day, 
> we
> had live talent from late afternoon to early morning, and at least one
> lightning strike occurred while on-air talent was at the board and wearing
> headphones.  The lights blinked, but the board operator felt nothing and 
> the
> show went on.
>
> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY

[Repeater-Builder] Narrowbanding

[Chuck Kelsey]

Florida Repeater Coordinator proposes narrowbanding:

http://www.florida-repeaters.org/FRC%202meter%20narrowband%20policy%20released%207-18-10.pdf
 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeater receiver testing

[Chuck Kelsey]

Yep, Mac's crash all the time. They get virus' too.

Chuck
WB2EDV


- Original Message - 
From: 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 9:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeater receiver testing


At 7/27/2010 10:29 AM, you wrote:
>
>
>Get a Mac. Much more efficient and crash free..

At the last coordinators' meeting I attended there was one laptop crash...

Yup, it was a Mac  ;)

Bob NO6B

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Invar Rods

[Chuck Kelsey]

To expand on my comment, the invar rod is there to minimize the temperature 
lengthening and shortening the center "probe." The original design with the 
invar to the bottom of the piston, keeps the overall length the same and 
allows temperature expansion to occur at the finger stock - thus not 
changing the overall length.

If you rotate the piston, then the piston itself can expand and contract, 
and change the overall length. Not as much as if no invar was used, but it 
will be worse than if it were kept attached were it was designed.

Chuck
WB2EDV



- Original Message - 
From: "Chuck Kelsey" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 8:55 AM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Invar Rods


> Not a good idea. They are attached to the "bottom" to keep the expansion
> minimized. Turning them around will defeat the purpose of having the invar
> in the first place.
>
> Chuck
> WB2EDV
>
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "IM Ashford" 
> To: 
> Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 8:54 AM
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Invar Rods
>
>
>> Just a thought,
>>
>> Why dont you turn the pistons around to give you a longer reach?
>>
>> Ian
>> G8PWE
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Burt Lang" 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 4:08 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Invar Rods
>>
>>
>>> What diameter are the rods?  The older Sinclair VHF Hi cans used 5/16in
>>> diameter whereas the newer cans used 1/4 in daiameter.
>>>
>>> burkleoj wrote:
>>> > Glenn, I need 6 of them for a Sinclair duplexer that I have.
>>> >
>>> > Someone cut the rods off when it was originally on a commercial
>>> > frequency. The rods in my duplexer are so short that it will not tune
>>> > below 147 MHz before they disappear inside the top of the cavity.
>>>
>>> Very common when the frequencies are in the high 160s
>>>
>>> >
>>> > I can get some dimensions for you to see if the ones you have may
>>> > work.
>>> >
>>> > Thanks, Joe - WA7JAW
>>>
>>> You can buy invar rod material from some metal suppliers but you won't
>>> like the price. It normally comes in 12ft lengths but the dealers will
>>> cut it in half in order to ship UPS. The last time I bought some (around
>>> 1990) the price was $30/lb.  The dealer was Diezel (or Diesel) Metals on
>>> Long Island somewhere.  I still have some left from that order.
>>>
>>> FYI Invar is an allow consisting of exactly 35.16% nickel with the
>>> remainder iron.  It is magnetic and will corrode in a damp environment
>>> leaving a green "rust" on the surface.
>>>
>>> Burt  VE2BMQ
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.839 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3013 - Release Date: 07/18/10
> 02:35:00
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>






No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.839 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3013 - Release Date: 07/18/10 
02:35:00

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Invar Rods

[Chuck Kelsey]

Not a good idea. They are attached to the "bottom" to keep the expansion 
minimized. Turning them around will defeat the purpose of having the invar 
in the first place.

Chuck
WB2EDV



- Original Message - 
From: "IM Ashford" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 8:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Invar Rods


> Just a thought,
>
> Why dont you turn the pistons around to give you a longer reach?
>
> Ian
> G8PWE
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Burt Lang" 
> To: 
> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 4:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Invar Rods
>
>
>> What diameter are the rods?  The older Sinclair VHF Hi cans used 5/16in
>> diameter whereas the newer cans used 1/4 in daiameter.
>>
>> burkleoj wrote:
>> > Glenn, I need 6 of them for a Sinclair duplexer that I have.
>> >
>> > Someone cut the rods off when it was originally on a commercial
>> > frequency. The rods in my duplexer are so short that it will not tune
>> > below 147 MHz before they disappear inside the top of the cavity.
>>
>> Very common when the frequencies are in the high 160s
>>
>> >
>> > I can get some dimensions for you to see if the ones you have may
>> > work.
>> >
>> > Thanks, Joe - WA7JAW
>>
>> You can buy invar rod material from some metal suppliers but you won't
>> like the price. It normally comes in 12ft lengths but the dealers will
>> cut it in half in order to ship UPS. The last time I bought some (around
>> 1990) the price was $30/lb.  The dealer was Diezel (or Diesel) Metals on
>> Long Island somewhere.  I still have some left from that order.
>>
>> FYI Invar is an allow consisting of exactly 35.16% nickel with the
>> remainder iron.  It is magnetic and will corrode in a damp environment
>> leaving a green "rust" on the surface.
>>
>> Burt  VE2BMQ
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>






No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.839 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3013 - Release Date: 07/18/10 
02:35:00

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Controller recommendations

[Chuck Kelsey]

It's going to be different for every controller.

Chuck
WB2EDV


> --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Barry  wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Maybe the steps in making it 12  ?
>>   
>> _
>> 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] carrier operated relay

[Chuck Kelsey]

This one's on the Repeater Builder site:

http://www.repeater-builder.com/projects/hangtimer.html

Chuck
WB2EDV



- Original Message - 
From: 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 8:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] carrier operated relay


>> Can anybody help me to make a makeshift repeater,
>> I need a schematic diagram for carrier operated relay
>> or "COR" for two radio transceivers to be converted
>> into a repeater.
> 
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] MASTR II LOW BAND TUNING

[Chuck Kelsey]

I'd still suggest that he try them since he already has them. If they don't 
work out, so be it. They can easily be swept to confirm the results, too.

Chuck
WB2EDV



- Original Message - 
From: "Joe" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] MASTR II LOW BAND TUNING


>I was just quoting the sales flyer.  I agree that the bandpass curve has
> the typical "knee" shaped bandpass curve instead of the bell shaped
> curve for what I would call a bandpass duplexer.  The only real
> application that I can see for these duplexers would be a mobile
> installation that is operating in the full-duplex mode.  It's
> interesting that they picked 52 and 53MHz on the plot, maybe they were
> targeting the ham market?
>
> 73, Joe, K1ike
>
> On 7/5/2010 8:02 PM, Eric Lemmon wrote:
>> I see what the sales flyer says, but the response plots show no real
>> bandpass action.
>>
>
>
> 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] MASTR II LOW BAND TUNING

[Chuck Kelsey]

You might make if from a hilltop. The Limestone 6-meter machine that's linked 
in is down temporarily for some lightning repairs. That one is closer to you 
and you'd probably get into it if it were up.

Chuck



  - Original Message - 
  From: James Cicirello 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 5:36 PM
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] MASTR II LOW BAND TUNING




  Good thoughts Chuck. 
  I never thought about the two patterns. 
  I have to check and make sure I have your Freq. programmed into my mobile.

  73 JIM  KA2AJH  



  On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 5:32 PM, Chuck Kelsey  wrote:

  

I'd certainly try single site since you've got the reject filters. It's 
certainly easier to manage than split site. With split site, in the hills we 
have around here, you are going to get two different coverage areas - one for 
TX and another for RX. If it were flatter, it wouldn't make a big difference, 
at least in my opinion. You'll want to back the power down and put fans on it 
since it's a mobile. I also prefer to tune the antenna to favor the TX.

Chuck
WB2EDV
  - Original Message - 
  From: James Cicirello 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 5:19 PM
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] MASTR II LOW BAND TUNING


  Hi Again Eric,

  When you get a chance will you look at these duplexers and give me your 
opinion?
  http://www.radiodata.com/fiplex/products/PDFs/DHV05.pdf

  The duplexer I got with the repeater is the Model DHV-0544.( THE 533 has 
been discontinued)
   The way I am reading their specs it is 90 dB at 1 MHz,  
  Anyone else wish to comment, Chuck you have some 6 meter machines too.
  I just got these from the owner today and am looking for advice, 
opinions, etc.
  This is a new product that he spent a lot of bucks on, so I am looking 
for opinions, anybody that may have experience with these duplexers, to include 
a split site Vs these duplexers.

  Thanks all

  73 JIM   KA2AJH  Wellsville, N.Y. 


  On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Eric Lemmon  wrote:

  
Jim,

A low-band repeater with a flat-pack duplexer having 90 dB of isolation?
That's amazing! My low-band repeater uses four 12" diameter cans that 
each
stand about five feet tall.

Your MC74AAU33A radio is an M-series 100 watt mobile radio, covered by 
PC-61
here:



The transmitter tuning information is covered in LBI-4898, available at 
the
link I gave you earlier. It is not a full-page version, but it will 
have to
do until we can borrow a paper copy to scan. If any readers of this list
have a clean and complete original LBI-4898 that we can borrow for 
full-page
scanning, please contact me directly at mycall at verizon dot net.



73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY


-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James Cicirello
Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 9:54 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] MASTR II LOW BAND TUNING

Hi Eric,
First thanks you for pointing me to the manuals and Don for the NHRC 
Tuning
site. 
Eric the combination numbers are MC74AAU33A. They came from a trucking
company and I think they are on 47.XXX. I am taking over the Wellsville
53.090 Repeater as the original owner is re-locating. He has a custom 
built
repeater MASTR II from Repeater Builder going thru a rack mount flat 
pack
duplexer with about 90 Db of isolation, but there is also 2 Db of 
receiver
loss thru the cans. I have two sites 6 miles apart and I want to try 
split
sites using the above mentioned GE as the TX and use the HOT RX on the
custom Repeater for the RX. I am in hopes that all I have to do is tune 
the
TX and hook it to the link radio.

73 JIM KA2AJH 

On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 8:39 PM, Eric Lemmon mailto:wb6...@verizon.net> > wrote:



Jim,

Perhaps you are not aware that Repeater-Builder has a huge index of
General
Electric manuals. Just look at any "Description & Maintenance"
manual for a
low-band radio to get the tuning instructions. Since you did not
specify
exactly which low-band radio you have, any of these LBIs will
probably get
you going:
http://www.repeater-builder.com/ge/lbi-library/lbi-4896.pdf> > 

http://www.repeater-builder.com/ge/lbi-library/lbi-4898g.pdf> > 

http://www.repeater-builder.com/ge/lbi-library/lbi-30104b.pdf> > 

http://www.repeater-builder.com/ge/lbi-library/lbi-30293a.pdf> > 


Pl

Re: [Repeater-Builder] MASTR II LOW BAND TUNING

[Chuck Kelsey]

I'd certainly try single site since you've got the reject filters. It's 
certainly easier to manage than split site. With split site, in the hills we 
have around here, you are going to get two different coverage areas - one for 
TX and another for RX. If it were flatter, it wouldn't make a big difference, 
at least in my opinion. You'll want to back the power down and put fans on it 
since it's a mobile. I also prefer to tune the antenna to favor the TX.

Chuck
WB2EDV
  - Original Message - 
  From: James Cicirello 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 5:19 PM
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] MASTR II LOW BAND TUNING




  Hi Again Eric,

  When you get a chance will you look at these duplexers and give me your 
opinion?
  http://www.radiodata.com/fiplex/products/PDFs/DHV05.pdf

  The duplexer I got with the repeater is the Model DHV-0544.( THE 533 has been 
discontinued)
   The way I am reading their specs it is 90 dB at 1 MHz,  
  Anyone else wish to comment, Chuck you have some 6 meter machines too.
  I just got these from the owner today and am looking for advice, opinions, 
etc.
  This is a new product that he spent a lot of bucks on, so I am looking for 
opinions, anybody that may have experience with these duplexers, to include a 
split site Vs these duplexers.

  Thanks all

  73 JIM   KA2AJH  Wellsville, N.Y. 


  On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Eric Lemmon  wrote:

  
Jim,

A low-band repeater with a flat-pack duplexer having 90 dB of isolation?
That's amazing! My low-band repeater uses four 12" diameter cans that each
stand about five feet tall.

Your MC74AAU33A radio is an M-series 100 watt mobile radio, covered by PC-61
here:


The transmitter tuning information is covered in LBI-4898, available at the
link I gave you earlier. It is not a full-page version, but it will have to
do until we can borrow a paper copy to scan. If any readers of this list
have a clean and complete original LBI-4898 that we can borrow for full-page
scanning, please contact me directly at mycall at verizon dot net.



73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY


-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James Cicirello
Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 9:54 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] MASTR II LOW BAND TUNING

Hi Eric,
First thanks you for pointing me to the manuals and Don for the NHRC Tuning
site. 
Eric the combination numbers are MC74AAU33A. They came from a trucking
company and I think they are on 47.XXX. I am taking over the Wellsville
53.090 Repeater as the original owner is re-locating. He has a custom built
repeater MASTR II from Repeater Builder going thru a rack mount flat pack
duplexer with about 90 Db of isolation, but there is also 2 Db of receiver
loss thru the cans. I have two sites 6 miles apart and I want to try split
sites using the above mentioned GE as the TX and use the HOT RX on the
custom Repeater for the RX. I am in hopes that all I have to do is tune the
TX and hook it to the link radio.

73 JIM KA2AJH 

On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 8:39 PM, Eric Lemmon mailto:wb6...@verizon.net> > wrote:



Jim,

Perhaps you are not aware that Repeater-Builder has a huge index of
General
Electric manuals. Just look at any "Description & Maintenance"
manual for a
low-band radio to get the tuning instructions. Since you did not
specify
exactly which low-band radio you have, any of these LBIs will
probably get
you going:
http://www.repeater-builder.com/ge/lbi-library/lbi-4896.pdf> >

http://www.repeater-builder.com/ge/lbi-library/lbi-4898g.pdf> >

http://www.repeater-builder.com/ge/lbi-library/lbi-30104b.pdf> >

http://www.repeater-builder.com/ge/lbi-library/lbi-30293a.pdf> >


Please be aware that even a high-split (33 range) radio may need
modification to perform well in the Amateur 6m band. What is the
Combination Number of the radio you want to tune?

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com

 
[mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com

 ] On Behalf Of James
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 3:46 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com

 
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] MASTR II LOW BAND TUNING

Hi Guys,
Is there a link to tuning a low band mastr II? I have googled and
find all
kinds of VHF High and UHF but not Mastr II Low. I want to tune to
six
meters.

Thanks JIM KA2AJH




-- 
KA2AJH
Jim Cicirello
181 Stevens Street
Wellsville, N.Y. 14895
(585)593-4655





  -- 
  KA2AJH
  Jim Cicirello
  181 Stevens Street
  Wel

Re: [Repeater-Builder] MASTR II LOW BAND TUNING

[Chuck Kelsey]

Jim -

My experience with 6-FM is that you are going to have a much harder time 
hearing the repeater than getting in to it. The noise encountered in a mobile 
environment desenses your receiver. There are exceptions to this, but as a 
general rule it's true. So, some loss on RX isn't necessarily going to be a 
killer. My 6 meter repeater typically far outhears that the user receiver can 
pick up. You can be full quieting running a 50 or less watt mobile and have 
difficulty hearing the repeater's 100 watt transmitter. Again, not always, but 
quite often.

Chuck
WB2EDV



  - Original Message - 
  From: James Cicirello 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 12:54 PM
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] MASTR II LOW BAND TUNING




  Hi Eric,
  First thanks you for pointing me to the manuals and Don for the NHRC Tuning 
site. 
  Eric the combination numbers are MC74AAU33A. They came from a trucking 
company and I think they are on 47.XXX. I am taking over the Wellsville 53.090 
Repeater as the original owner is re-locating. He has a custom built repeater 
MASTR II from Repeater Builder going thru a rack mount flat pack duplexer with 
about 90 Db of isolation, but there is also 2 Db of receiver loss thru the 
cans. I have two sites 6 miles apart and  I want to try split sites using the 
above mentioned GE as the TX and use the HOT RX on the custom Repeater for the 
RX. I am in hopes that all I have to do is tune the TX and hook it to the link 
radio.

  73 JIM  KA2AJH  


  On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 8:39 PM, Eric Lemmon  wrote:

  
Jim,

Perhaps you are not aware that Repeater-Builder has a huge index of General
Electric manuals. Just look at any "Description & Maintenance" manual for a
low-band radio to get the tuning instructions. Since you did not specify
exactly which low-band radio you have, any of these LBIs will probably get
you going:





Please be aware that even a high-split (33 range) radio may need
modification to perform well in the Amateur 6m band. What is the
Combination Number of the radio you want to tune?

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY



-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 3:46 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] MASTR II LOW BAND TUNING

Hi Guys,
Is there a link to tuning a low band mastr II? I have googled and find all
kinds of VHF High and UHF but not Mastr II Low. I want to tune to six
meters.

Thanks JIM KA2AJH





  -- 
  KA2AJH
  Jim Cicirello
  181 Stevens Street
  Wellsville, N.Y. 14895
  (585)593-4655



  


--



  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
  Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2983 - Release Date: 07/05/10 
02:36:00

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Inline coax connector style impedance matcher

[Chuck Kelsey]

It's called a Z-matcher. No place like Digi-Key will have. Telewave, EMR, 
Decibel, Sinclair, Comprod, TX/RX I believe all make/made them.

Chuck
WB2EDV



- Original Message - 
From: "kq7dx" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 5:49 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Inline coax connector style impedance matcher


> Dear Group,
>
> Somewhere I saw or heard of a inline coaxial impedance matcher. It looks 
> like a barrel connector but it actually has an adjustment on it for 
> adjusting or trimming SWR between devices. It is placed inline with the 
> coax ,between a driver and amp or between duplexer cavites etc, and 
> adjusted for 50 ohms in instances where the coax length is not optimum. I 
> thought Digikey made them but cant find it.
> If anyone knows about these and where to get them let me know..
>
> 73
>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>






No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2980 - Release Date: 07/03/10 
14:35:00

Re: [Repeater-Builder] DB-212 questions

[Chuck Kelsey]

Keep the transmitter happy is my opinion.

Chuck
WB2EDV


- Original Message - 
From: "N8FWD" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 9:00 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] DB-212 questions


>I have a set of DB-212 that each one is set for six meters.I want to build 
>the harness next for the two and wanted to know should I set the SWR for 
>the tx side or the rx side or should it be set for in between the two? 
>Thanks Mike N8FWD
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>






No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2976 - Release Date: 07/01/10 
14:35:00

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: OT:Printing google or Bing maps from the web

[Chuck Kelsey]

Correct. That's what I posted earlier. Works great and is easy.

Chuck
WB2EDV


  - Original Message - 
  From: La Rue Communications 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 11:19 AM
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: OT:Printing google or Bing maps from the 
web





  Y'all don't even need to hold down shift or ctrl, or alt. Just hit print 
screen, open paint up and paste (ctrl V). Save it as JPG / IMG / whatever 
format you need it. Edit photo / crop as necessary and print. :-)

  Cheers!

  John Hymes
  La Rue Communications
  10 S. Aurora Street
  Stockton, CA 95202
  http://tinyurl.com/2dtngmn

Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT:Printing google or Bing maps from the web

[Chuck Kelsey]

Sorry, hit paste.


  - Original Message - 
  From: Chuck Kelsey 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 9:45 PM
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT:Printing google or Bing maps from the web





  Will a screen capture work? If so hit PRINT SCREEN, open Paint then hit copy 
and go from there.

  Chuck
  WB2EDV


- Original Message - 
From: Don Kupferschmidt 
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 9:42 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] OT:Printing google or Bing maps from the web


All,

I'm trying to print a map which was brought up on either google or bing 
maps on the internet and then export it to a bmp or jpg file which then I can 
print to an ink jet printer.

I've tried and tried to figure this out, but cannot to find a solution.

Has anyone been successful in doing this?  Or do I need more software?  O/S 
is x/p Pro.

TIA,

Don, KD9PT




  


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14:35:00

Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT:Printing google or Bing maps from the web

[Chuck Kelsey]

Will a screen capture work? If so hit PRINT SCREEN, open Paint then hit copy 
and go from there.

Chuck
WB2EDV


  - Original Message - 
  From: Don Kupferschmidt 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 9:42 PM
  Subject: [Repeater-Builder] OT:Printing google or Bing maps from the web





  All,

  I'm trying to print a map which was brought up on either google or bing maps 
on the internet and then export it to a bmp or jpg file which then I can print 
to an ink jet printer.

  I've tried and tried to figure this out, but cannot to find a solution.

  Has anyone been successful in doing this?  Or do I need more software?  O/S 
is x/p Pro.

  TIA,

  Don, KD9PT

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Recording of mysterious noise

[Chuck Kelsey]

To me it sounds like either a system with intermod involving the repeater's 
transmitter getting into it's receiver, or similar to two repeater systems 
with one being on the reverse pair. I lean toward the first possibility. And 
if I were to guess, I'd say this is on UHF. If you shut off the TX while 
this is happening, does the noise disappear on the local RX?

Chuck
WB2EDV


- Original Message - 
From: "gm7svk" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 4:15 AM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Recording of mysterious noise


> Hello,
>
> Loaded sample to files section.
> Has anyone encountered this sort of noise on a system or have a suggestion 
> as to what might be generating it? Proving difficult to determine source.
>
> Thank you,
> Doug - GM7SVK
>
>
> 

[Repeater-Builder] OT - Firefox bookmarks

[Chuck Kelsey]

Is anyone here real good with Firefox and bookmarks. I want to replicate the 
IE method of autohiding the bookmark sidebar. Otherwise Firefox get left 
behind and I go back to IE. I've tried staying with Firefox for three or 
four months and this is driving me crazy.

Contact me direct.

Chuck
WB2EDV

wb2edv (at) roadrunner (dot) com 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna Experience Needed!

[Chuck Kelsey]

You bet.

My main repeater site is one that I purchased. The only one that can throw 
me off is my wife. LOL.

Chuck
WB2EDV


- Original Message - 
From: Larry Horlick
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 10:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna Experience Needed!





Understood Chuck. Depends on the circumstances. I know of a couple of ham 
groups that have traded antenna
space for tower space. The tower owner gave them free space provided he 
could multi-couple to that antenna. The
new systems at the site would be responsible for filtering. It was a win-win 
and the ham guys paid nothing for a
PRIME location. If you own the tower and never plan to expand then it's not 
an issue. My only reason for bring it
up was to encourage everyone to consider all the options and ensure that 
they will not regret the model chosen.
As I am sure you are aware,  attaching a  big antenna to a high tower is 
tons of work and not something that any
of us would want to repeat unless necessary.

lh 







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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna Experience Needed!

[Chuck Kelsey]

Larry is correct.

My own personal hope and desire is that there will NOT be other users. Call me 
greedy, I suppose, but the less RF at the site, the better.

However, the guy that posted the original question certainly needs to consider 
the possibilities. (Sorry, don't remember his name - short memory.)

Chuck
WB2EDV



  - Original Message - 
  From: Larry Horlick 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 10:00 AM
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna Experience Needed!





  Do you expect to EVER allow other, non-ham users, to multi-couple to this 
antenna? Plan carefully.
  If you anticipate to share, then the bandwidth become very important. For 
example,  a Sinclair 210C Series
  antenna has a 36 mHz, 1.5:1 VSWR bandwidth, essentially covering the whole 
VHF high band. A Sinclair
  222/224 Series has a 10 mHz 1.5:1 VSWR bandwidth. A Sinclair 229 has a 6 mHz, 
1.5:1 VSWR bandwidth.
  UHF follows a similar set of numbers. If you expect to never allow other 
users on the antenna, then my comments
  are irrelevant.

  lh


  On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 9:36 AM, Chuck Kelsey  wrote:

  

I'm assuming you mean the section of the particular band that a particular 
model will cover. 'Most' folded dipole arrays and collinear fiberglass 
manufacturers have models that cover the entire ham band in question, and then 
some.

Chuck
WB2EDV


  - Original Message - 
  From: Larry Horlick 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 9:17 AM
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna Experience Needed!


  Keep in mind the bandwidth of the antenna.

  lh


  On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Sid  wrote:

  

My choice would be the DB-224 type. Sid WA4VBC

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Kelsey"  
wrote:
>
> My vote would be for folded dipole arrays. Sinclair, Comprod, 
Telewave and 
> Andrew make good ones. I have seen far too many failures with 
fiberglass 
> collinear antennas - lighting and particularly internal failure 
causing 
> untold noise generation to the repeater itself as well as to every 
radio 
> service nearby. I've never seen a fiberglass one that stood a direct 
hit but 
> have seen folded dipoles that did. I'd say at least a 3:1 failure 
rate, 
> maybe higher. That said, any can fail.
> 
> Chuck
> WB2EDV
> 
> 
> 
> >>
> >> We will be mounting 2 meter, 220, and a 440 repeater antennas.
> >>
> >> 1:
> >> What do you recommend between a choice of either RFS or Telewave 
> >> Superstation Master Type or DB224E Dipole type for top mounting?
> >>
> >>
>







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02:36:00









  


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02:36:00

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna Experience Needed!

[Chuck Kelsey]

I'm assuming you mean the section of the particular band that a particular 
model will cover. 'Most' folded dipole arrays and collinear fiberglass 
manufacturers have models that cover the entire ham band in question, and then 
some.

Chuck
WB2EDV


  - Original Message - 
  From: Larry Horlick 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 9:17 AM
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna Experience Needed!





  Keep in mind the bandwidth of the antenna.

  lh


  On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Sid  wrote:

  

My choice would be the DB-224 type. Sid WA4VBC

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Kelsey"  wrote:
>
> My vote would be for folded dipole arrays. Sinclair, Comprod, Telewave 
and 
> Andrew make good ones. I have seen far too many failures with fiberglass 
> collinear antennas - lighting and particularly internal failure causing 
> untold noise generation to the repeater itself as well as to every radio 
> service nearby. I've never seen a fiberglass one that stood a direct hit 
but 
> have seen folded dipoles that did. I'd say at least a 3:1 failure rate, 
> maybe higher. That said, any can fail.
> 
> Chuck
> WB2EDV
> 
> 
> 
> >>
> >> We will be mounting 2 meter, 220, and a 440 repeater antennas.
> >>
> >> 1:
> >> What do you recommend between a choice of either RFS or Telewave 
> >> Superstation Master Type or DB224E Dipole type for top mounting?
> >>
> >>
>







  


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  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
  Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2957 - Release Date: 06/23/10 
02:36:00

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna Experience Needed!

[Chuck Kelsey]

My vote would be for folded dipole arrays. Sinclair, Comprod, Telewave and 
Andrew make good ones. I have seen far too many failures with fiberglass 
collinear antennas - lighting and particularly internal failure causing 
untold noise generation to the repeater itself as well as to every radio 
service nearby. I've never seen a fiberglass one that stood a direct hit but 
have seen folded dipoles that did. I'd say at least a 3:1 failure rate, 
maybe higher. That said, any can fail.

Chuck
WB2EDV



>>
>> We will be mounting 2 meter, 220, and a 440 repeater antennas.
>>
>> 1:
>> What do you recommend between a choice of either RFS or Telewave 
>> Superstation Master Type or DB224E Dipole type for top mounting?
>>
>> 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] An antenna question

[Chuck Kelsey]

Decibel made one similar - DB806D.

Chuck
WB2EDV



  - Original Message - 
  From: Com/Rad Inc 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 1:00 PM
  Subject: [Repeater-Builder] An antenna question





  Jun 22 - 2010

  hello Group

  This question os directed to all of the antenna historians

  I am trying to determine a make/model number  of a  base antenna meeting the 
following description

  806-865 ( approx range )
  Dual antenna
  Base mounted N female connectors
  Fiberglass radome
  3-4" diameter - same dims base to tip ( not tapered ) 
  Total length = 10' approx
  Metal mounting sleeve approx 28" in length 

  Thanks in advance 

  Ed Folta 
  Com/Rad Inc






  


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02:36:00

Re: [Repeater-Builder] What have I got?

[Chuck Kelsey]

I'm pretty sure the guy wanted to identify the Motorola equipment he had, 
not what power level was required.

Chuck
WB2EDV


- Original Message - 
From: 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] What have I got?


> At 6/19/2010 08:44, you wrote:
>
>
>>Not really an expert on that unit! General rule of thumb: when you have an
>>existing exciter, the power amp (final) input is usually around 1/4
>>W  (250mW) or higher. Most GE junk is 1/2 watt in. you cant go wrong with
>>trying 250mw.
>
> The G.E. exciters I've measured show around 200 mW out.  I once put a UHF
> exciter tuned to 450 MHz on an HP437 power meter & got 183 mW.  This seems
> to be more than enough to drive their RFPAs.
>
> Bob NO6B
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>






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02:35:00

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Hard-Line Filter "pager filter" construction web page.

[Chuck Kelsey]

Just like the filters for the 6-meter heliax duplexers, except for the band.

Chuck
WB2EDV



- Original Message - 
From: "skipp025" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 12:07 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Hard-Line Filter "pager filter" construction web 
page.


> re: Hard-Line Filter "pager filter" construction web page.
>
> This is pretty neat'o
>
> http://www.vk5zd.com/PagerFilter/Filter.aspx
>
>
> enjoy,
> s.
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>






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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2934 - Release Date: 06/13/10 
02:35:00

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: MOVs for power supply primary

[Chuck Kelsey]

Boy wouldn't you think that these devices would loose their UL rating?

Chuck
WB2EDV


- Original Message - 
From: "Eric Lemmon" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 8:03 PM
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: MOVs for power supply primary


>
> The gray plastic, half-moon-shaped power strip
> made by APC is known to be a fire hazard, and my employer (Boeing) banned
> them after the second fire incident.  In each incident, the MOV
> spontaneously overheated and melted the plastic case, which then caught
> fire.  Fortunately, the damage was limited to the wooden shelf it was
> sitting on in one case, and some scorched carpet in the other.  As a 
> result
> of these two incidents, the CPSC recommended that any power strip be made 
> of
> metal rather than plastic, and further, that the plug strip containing a
> surge suppression device always be placed upon a non-combustible surface. 
> A
> word to the wise...
>
> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] MOVs for power supply primary

[Chuck Kelsey]

Thanks Eric.

Chuck


- Original Message - 
From: "Eric Lemmon" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 10:07 PM
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] MOVs for power supply primary


> Chuck,
>
> Square D makes a line of heavy-duty, commercial-grade surge protectors for
> both 120/240 VAC residential and 208Y/120 VAC commercial systems:
> 
> These are very good products, but- like any really good stuff- are
> definitely not cheap.  I guess that one's definition of "cheap" changes
> after suffering a $5,000 loss due to a lightning strike!
>
> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: OT:QRZ.com

[Chuck Kelsey]

I think you need to login in only to see detail. I noticed the change a few 
weeks back.

Chuck
WB2EDV


- Original Message - 
From: "larynl2" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 9:24 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: OT:QRZ.com


> Just tried it... no login or password required for me.
>
> Laryn K8TVZ
>
> --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Don Kupferschmidt" 
>  wrote:
>>
>> Hi all.
>>
>> Has anyone used QRZ.com recently to look at a call sign and was 
>> challenged for a login and a password?
>>
>> I tried to look up a callsign for verification of an address, but was 
>> unable to go any further until I emailed their admin for a current login 
>> and password.  Once I got it, I was able to use their site.
>>
>> Anyone know why this is happening?
>>
>> Don, KD9PT

Re: [Repeater-Builder] MOVs for power supply primary

[Chuck Kelsey]

OK, I'm familiar with those single-point grounding panel protection devices.

How about a service panel protector for home use?

And a service panel protector for a small (200A) 3-phase panel?

I ask, rather than simply Google for it, because Google could come up with 
some units that are not good.

Chuck
WB2EDV



- Original Message - 
From: "Jeff DePolo" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 1:13 PM
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] MOVs for power supply primary


>
> Hmmm.  That's a tougher one.  Mostly I use the Polyphasers (PLDO-120US-15A
> or -20A) at sites that don't have facility-wide protection.  The TrippLite
> Isobar Ultra series is another (ISOBAR8ULTRA et al).  The Isobars also 
> have
> a $50,000 equipment warranty (can't say I've ever had to use it, don't 
> know
> how much red tape there is to go through).  I like the Polyphasers because
> it's designed to mount to a ground panel/bus bar, so I mount it to the bus
> bar that has all of my other arrestors (coax, telco, etc.) on it to 
> provide
> a common-point ground.  The Isobar doesn't have provisions for direct
> grounding - it relies only on the equipment grounding conductor in the AC
> cord, but the TrippLite has arguably better EMI/RFI filtering than the
> Polyphaser.
>
> --- Jeff WN3A
>
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
>> [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Kelsey
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 4:48 PM
>> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] MOVs for power supply primary
>>
>>
>>
>> OK, I should have been more specific. What would be a
>> reasonable unit for a
>> repeater site that may have only a couple thousand dollars worth of
>> equipment inside?
>>
>> Chuck
>> WB2EDV
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Jeff DePolo" mailto:jd0%40broadsci.com> >
>> To: > <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> >
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 4:22 PM
>> Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] MOVs for power supply primary
>>
>> >
>> > Probably the ones I've had the most luck with are the
>> Islatrol series from
>> > Control Concepts. I think they have been bought out by
>> Emerson or Liebert
>> > or one of the other companies that have power divisions.
>> Anyway, they
>> > call
>> > these "active tracking filters". They not only are TVSS's
>> but also filter
>> > noise, low-amplitude spikes, etc. Right now I'm typing from
>> a mountaintop
>> > site (broadcast) that we re-built a few years ago. We put
>> in an Islator
>> > I-2100 (120/240V single-phase). The old equipment shelter
>> which had been
>> > here since 1990 had the same model unit. In the 15+ years we've been
>> > managing and maintaining the site, we've had zero
>> surge-related failures,
>> > and this site sticks out like a sore thumb as far as
>> lightning goes. In
>> > the
>> > last few years I've used the same series of arrestors for
>> new site builds
>> > at
>> > a dozen sites or so and have had no power-related problems.
>> >
>> > Others that make comparable-quality products include
>> Joslyn, Transtector,
>> > and Innovative Technologies.
>> >
>> > There is one big difference (to me anyway) between TVSS's,
>> that being
>> > whether they are the series or parallel type. Series type takes the
>> > utility
>> > service (or transfer switch output if there's a generator
>> too) as its
>> > input,
>> > and provides a protected output to feed the panel(s).
>> Parallel type is
>> > typically connected to a breaker in the panel, which puts
>> it in parallel
>> > with all of the loads. I much prefer series. Parallel type
>> can be less
>> > effective because a) there will always be some inductance
>> and resistance
>> > in
>> > the wiring between the panel and the protector, b) if the
>> TVSS conducts,
>> > there's a good chance it will trip the breaker in the
>> panel, resulting in
>> > no
>> > protection until the breaker is reset, and c) they are much
>> less effective
>> > as a noise filter. The upside to parallel type is they can
>> easily be
>> > added
>> > at any time just by popping breakers in the panel and feeding the
>> > arrestor.
>> > Series, on the other hand, are in-line 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] MOVs for power supply primary

[Chuck Kelsey]

OK, I should have been more specific. What would be a reasonable unit for a 
repeater site that may have only a couple thousand dollars worth of 
equipment inside?

Chuck
WB2EDV

- Original Message - 
From: "Jeff DePolo" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 4:22 PM
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] MOVs for power supply primary


>
> Probably the ones I've had the most luck with are the Islatrol series from
> Control Concepts.  I think they have been bought out by Emerson or Liebert
> or one of the other companies that have power divisions.  Anyway, they 
> call
> these "active tracking filters".  They not only are TVSS's but also filter
> noise, low-amplitude spikes, etc.  Right now I'm typing from a mountaintop
> site (broadcast) that we re-built a few years ago.  We put in an Islator
> I-2100 (120/240V single-phase).  The old equipment shelter which had been
> here since 1990 had the same model unit.  In the 15+ years we've been
> managing and maintaining the site, we've had zero surge-related failures,
> and this site sticks out like a sore thumb as far as lightning goes.  In 
> the
> last few years I've used the same series of arrestors for new site builds 
> at
> a dozen sites or so and have had no power-related problems.
>
> Others that make comparable-quality products include Joslyn, Transtector,
> and Innovative Technologies.
>
> There is one big difference (to me anyway) between TVSS's, that being
> whether they are the series or parallel type.  Series type takes the 
> utility
> service (or transfer switch output if there's a generator too) as its 
> input,
> and provides a protected output to feed the panel(s).  Parallel type is
> typically connected to a breaker in the panel, which puts it in parallel
> with all of the loads.  I much prefer series.  Parallel type can be less
> effective because a) there will always be some inductance and resistance 
> in
> the wiring between the panel and the protector, b) if the TVSS conducts,
> there's a good chance it will trip the breaker in the panel, resulting in 
> no
> protection until the breaker is reset, and c) they are much less effective
> as a noise filter.  The upside to parallel type is they can easily be 
> added
> at any time just by popping breakers in the panel and feeding the 
> arrestor.
> Series, on the other hand, are in-line with the service conductors, so if
> you want to add one (or repair one), you have to take the service down.
> Series tends to also be more expensive, especially for three-phase and
> unlike parallel type, the price goes up as the current rating goes up for
> obvious reasons.
>
> A good 200A single-phase arrestor of the ilk I'm talking about starts at
> about $1000 and goes up quite a ways from there.  I think these 
> single-phase
> I-2100's were in the $2000 range.  I recently spec'ed a 120/208 3-phase
> Transtector (parallel type) for another site where I'm much less concerned
> about power-wise, and that was about $1800.  No cheap, but where you're
> protecting equipment in the 6 and 7 figure range, it's a no-brainer.  If
> you're repeater is a Micor mobile and an Astron, it might be hard to
> justify... :-)
>
> --- Jeff

Re: [Repeater-Builder] MOVs for power supply primary

[Chuck Kelsey]

And, boy were there stars!

Chuck
WB2EDV



- Original Message -   

> It was
> nice to be able to see the stars again,
> without all the light pollution.
> 
> 







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Re: [Repeater-Builder] MOVs for power supply primary

[Chuck Kelsey]

Jeff -

Could you suggest some makes and models and maybe explain why they are 
superior to others?

Chuck
WB2EDV


- Original Message - >
> Good surge arrestors/TVSS's are expensive, and like most things in life, 
> you
> get what you pay for.  If your site has a good surge arrestor at the 
> service
> entrance, you really shouldn't need anything extra.
>
> --- Jeff WN3A

Re: [Repeater-Builder] transmission is intermittent and voice cuts out with my mc-micro repeater

[Chuck Kelsey]

Could be a lot of things.

If you are running a PL tone, the level may be too low and your voice is 
causing "talk off."

Could be you are falsing the controller's touch tone decoder and it's 
programmed to not pass audio when it hears a tone.

Could be deviation is too high somewhere and you are going out of the 
passband of the receiver.

Might be a bad mic or mic cord on your radio.

etc., etc.

Chuck
WB2EDV




- Original Message - 
From: "mimomeg" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 10:55 AM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] transmission is intermittent and voice cuts out 
with my mc-micro repeater


> Seem to have period where my transmission (voice) cuts out for a few 
> seconds every so often, and the person at the other end can't hear me. On 
> the receiving end,Does anyone have any idea?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>






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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2921 - Release Date: 06/06/10 
02:25:00

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Low Band Micor PA

[Chuck Kelsey]

The Low Pass Filter will likely need to be re-worked or you stand a good 
chance of burning it up - depending on your 6-meter TX frequency.

Chuck
WB2EDV



- Original Message - 
From: "Eric Lemmon" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 10:27 PM
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Low Band Micor PA


> Tim,
>
> The more-or-less standard Micor low-band continuous-duty PA is rated at 
> 100
> watts, and came in four models:
>
> TLB1411 25-30 MHz
> TLB1412 30-36 MHz
> TLB1413 36-42 MHz
> TLB1414 42-50 MHz
>
> There are significant differences between these models, and they cannot be
> used very far out of their respective band limits.  Which PA are you
> seeking?
>
> What is the complete model number of the VHF PA you have to trade?
>
> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tahrens301
> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 6:46 AM
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Low Band Micor PA
>
>
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> Anybody have a Micor Low Band PA - Repeater/Base
> station type? Not sure if they came in lower
> power versions, but looking for a continuous
> duty.
>
> Will swap a VHF continuous duty for it.
>
> Looks like I'm getting some cans for the 6 mtr
> repeater & will now be able to be at a single site,
> so want to put it all in a single box. Already have
> the RX, exciter, remote control chassis & PS.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tim W5FN

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Advice on 40 year old radio tower

[Chuck Kelsey]

You are both wrong. It is "there."




- Original Message - 
From: "Doug Hutchison" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Advice on 40 year old radio tower


> Their??? English therethey're ...get the right one!
> 
> What happened to English I wonder???
> 
> 
> 
> 8On 03/06/2010 20:47:07, dgrapach (dgrap...@gmail.com) wrote:
> > I checked the drain hole on that brace and their is another one at the
> > other end on the bottom, anyhow, you ARE RIGHT IT HAS 40 YEARS OF
> >
> >