[Repeater-Builder] Looking For: LB (6m) Micor Repeater PA (continuous duty)
Hi Folks, I'm getting pretty close to putting up the machine, and I am looking for a 'real' PA for it. High split low band Micor PA so I can move it to 6 meters. Continuous duty. Already have the rest of the Micor components (RX, cards, exciter, etc). Please respond off-line. thanks! tim W5FN
[Repeater-Builder] Maxrad lowband mobile antenna
Hi folks, I was given a couple of LB mobile antennas, and I have moved them up to 6 meters. (I drilled a hole in the plastic case, and shorted out 2 turns (soldered across them). It seemed to tune right up to 52 mhz. However, I noticed that the position on the back deck of my car really made a big difference in it's resonant frequency. I was using a MFJ259, and in one spot (not centered), I have a perfect 1:1 @ 50 ohms - a very pronounced 'dip'. When I move it around, the swr goes up, and the 'dip' is not as pronounced. The Bird confirms that the transmitter isn't as happy in other places on the back deck. The antenna is an effective quarter wave. Is this indicative of all LB mobile antennas, or just this type? I remember 'way back when', I used a full quarter wave on my car, and it tuned right up without any funnies. (big spring & all). Thanks, Tim
[Repeater-Builder] Icom CY-F121S Repeater 'Controller'
Anybody know anything about the 'controller' that is in this repeater? The schematic is in the 'manual', but no real info. The Fan runs all the time, although it has a controlling input from the micro on the controller. Just wondering if it has any kind of intelligence built into it. Thanks, Tim
[Repeater-Builder] AGM Batteries
Hi Folks, I got a couple of the large AGM batteries for a solar installation, and was wondering if there is any condition that will lead them to vent inside the enclosure? They are sealed, but probably have one-way valves. Can I put the solar controller in the same enclosure? Figured some of you folks have done solar stuff before. Thanks, Tim
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeater receiver testing
Hi Jeff, Thanks for the info. any idea about the complexity of the 'summing' device? Can I do with a resistor combo, then perhaps sub some from the actual generators' output? Tim --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff DePolo" wrote: > > > The holy grail for FM performance testing, which includes adjacent channel > rejection measurements, is EIA/TIA-603. I believe revision C is the latest. > Unfortunately, you'll have to pay to get a copy of that document unless you > can scrounge one up. > > To summarize how the test is done (and I'm doing this from memory, so > someone please verify/correct me). > > 1. You need a way to sum the output of the two sig gens together such that > they are properly isolated from each other, and done in such a way that the > amplitudes can be calculated accurately at the output of the summing device. > > 2. You start out by measuring the 12 dB SINAD of the receiver with only the > on-channel signal generator active (standard SINAD test, 3 kHz deviation, 1 > kHz tone, typically measured at the speaker terminals after > deemphasis/filtering/etc.). Simple enough. > > 3. Increase the RF level of the on-channel generator 3 dB higher than the > 12 dB SINAD sensitivity value you found in step 2. This will push the > measured SINAD up higher than 12 dB obviously, that's what's supposed to > happen. > > 4. While still generating the on-channel signal, now also generate a signal > on the adjacent channel, modulated by a 400 Hz tone at 3 kHz deviation. > > 5. Increase the level of the adjacent-channel signal until you degrade the > SINAD reading of the on-channel signal back down to 12 dB (remember, it was > something greater than 12 dB, because you had increased the RF level by +3 > dB before you started introducing adjacent-channel dinterference). > > 6. The difference (in dB) between the offending signal and the 12 dB SINAD > sensitivity measured in step 2 is the adjacent channel rejection ratio. > > So, for example, if the 12 dB SINAD sensitivity was measured at -117 dBm in > step 2 without any interference, and you were back down to 12 dB SINAD in > step 5 when you had the interfering signal cranked up to -30 dBm, the > adjacent channel selectivity would be 87 dB. > > --- Jeff WN3A > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tahrens301 > > Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 10:27 PM > > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Repeater receiver testing > > > > > > > > I have this lowband Micor receiver > > that I want to test for adjacent channel > > rejection. > > > > I have two calibrated signal generators > > and a calibrated spectrum analyzer if > > I need it. > > > > How can i measure the rejection of the > > off channel signal? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Tim > > > > > > > > > > >
[Repeater-Builder] Repeater Receiver Testing
I have this lowband Micor receiver that I would like to check the adjacent channel rejection. I have two calibrated signal generators, and a calibrated spectrum analyzer (if needed). Can I do the measurements with this equipment? If so, how? Resistor divider network between the two sig gens? Thanks, Tim
[Repeater-Builder] Repeater receiver testing
I have this lowband Micor receiver that I want to test for adjacent channel rejection. I have two calibrated signal generators and a calibrated spectrum analyzer if I need it. How can i measure the rejection of the off channel signal? Thanks, Tim
[Repeater-Builder] Repeater transmit levels at the receiver?
Hi folks, Still working on the hardline duplexer for 6 meters, and have some data I'd like to run by you guys. Running 80 watts out of a Micor tx into the TX bank of cavities. With test equipment, get about 100dB notch. (shows 50 watts into dummy load as well).. have about 1.5 - 2dB loss through them. Ok, now I hook the spectrum analyzer up to the receiver port, and I see about -55dBm. 50 watts = +47dBm, minus the 100dB notch = -53dBm that is pretty close to what I'm seeing at the rx antenna port. Question is: Should this good enough for a low band micor receiver? Thanks, Tim W5FN
[Repeater-Builder] Low Band Micor Mobile as Repeater TX?
Hi Folks, Well, I got the hardline duplexers completed for 6 meters, and after a shakey start, they now work at power. Looks like about 100dB notch & 1.5dB loss through each set of 3 'cans'. Using RG-142 as the inter-can connections, and RG-214 between the TX/RX & duplexer. All the 'business' ends of the hardline duplexer cans are totally shielded. Hooked the antenna port to a dummy load with sampling port (to inject the RX freq), and we got lots of desense. With a Bird inline with the TX input, it shows 80W going in, 0 reflected. 50 W coming out of the antenna port. The match looks good. Am using a micor repeater shelf for the RX, but using a converted micor mobile as the TX. It is located above the RX. All shields are in place, both TX & RX. I guess the basic question is whether using a Micor Mobile is a good choice. (it was chosen as it was available) I cranked down the power to 5 watts (using one of the caps on the PA). Granted, sometimes these guys get unstable doing it that way, but the desense seemed just as bad. Perhaps I just introduced a different desense cause by trying it. Anyhow, just curious about the viability of using the micor mobile as a TX in repeater service. I understand about heatsink/ heat issues, and plan to run it at reduced power (per motorola tuning sheet). Thanks, Tim W5FN
[Repeater-Builder] 6 Meter Heliax Duplexers
Hi Folks, Well, they are complete, but there seems to be a problem with the transmit side 'cavities'. The variable capacitor from the center of the SO-239 to the center conductor gets extremely hot. I'm running about 70 watts out of the PA, and the devices that I used are identical to what was shown in the construction article. Just wondering if anyone else has built these, and did you see heating as well. (the first piston trimmers I used arc'd right thru)! Thanks, Tim W5FN
[Repeater-Builder] Low Band Micor PA
Hi Folks, Anybody have a Micor Low Band PA - Repeater/Base station type? Not sure if they came in lower power versions, but looking for a continuous duty. Will swap a VHF continuous duty for it. Looks like I'm getting some cans for the 6 mtr repeater & will now be able to be at a single site, so want to put it all in a single box. Already have the RX, exciter, remote control chassis & PS. Thanks, Tim W5FN
[Repeater-Builder] Multiple receivers on the same antenna
Hi Folks, I'm starting to work on the 6 meter portion of the repeater system here, and have a question about the link receiver's antenna. The existing 2 meter repeater is a Quantar feeding the duplexers. On the 'Antenna' port of the duplexer I've put an in-line diplexer, with the 'UHF' port feeding a UHF Visar (used as the control receiver for the repeater). The antenna is a DB-224. No desense, all works well, including the UHF control receiver. Probably not as good as a separate UHF antenna, but then it's 'free'. Now, I want to hook up the 6 meter link receiver (UHF Maxtrac). The actual 6 meter receiver is about 8 miles away LOS, and the link transmitter is putting out about 1/4 watt. I could put a 'T' in the UHF side of the diplexer, and feed both of the UHF receivers simultaneously, but I know that there will be a reduction in signal. However, is this reduction really going to affect the link that much? For the 2m control receiver, I don't expect it to have as good of range as the 2 meter repeater itself - I just need to be able to shut things down remotely. - probably from a mobile unit. I was going to use a ground plane for the link transmitter, but could put in a small yagi to increase the link's erp. Is there a way to minimize the loss? (without a lot of extra stuff). Thanks, Tim W5FN
[Repeater-Builder] QCII Tone Intervals
Hi Folks, I thought I remembered the timing, but I've slept since then. In A-B signaling, the A tone was 1 second, the B tone was 3 seconds, but what was the A/B interval? (most around here use a 2 second B tone). What is the dead time between the tones? (if any) Thanks, Tim
[Repeater-Builder] DB-225
Hi Folks, I picked up 3 DB-225 elements yesterday, but can't find any information on them on RB. They are currently tuned for 47.1, and I'd like to take them to 53.15. Anybody have any info on them, or how I could phase 2 of them on the side of the tower? Thanks, Tim
[Repeater-Builder] IFR 1100S Service Manual/Assistance
Hi folks, Well, looks like the R2002B will be setting on the shelf for a while. (dead PS) In the mean time, I was able to get an IFR 1100S for a good price ;-). Anyhow, looks like it all works except for the o'scope. Was wondering if there is something 'simple' I should look for (fuse, etc), or if there is a downloadable service manual around. Thanks a bunch! Tim
[Repeater-Builder] Motorola R2002B Monitor - DOS
Well, it looks like the old R2002B took a drizzlin'. The mongo 6.2v Zener in the 5v overvoltage protect circuit is a dead short, leading me to believe there are more problems lurking in the power supply. Anybody have an 'extra' power supply, or know who works on these things? Thanks, Tim
[Repeater-Builder] Low Band Micor mobile not making power
Hi all, Working on a micor mobile to be used as a repeater (only using the exciter/control board/PA). Was going through it, and am only able to get about 75 watts out of it with the exciter on 53.7. The exciter is putting out 0.3 watts... a bit more than most exciters I've seen, but they were high band. The tags on the PA cover indicate over 100 watts were once measured. Made most of the capacitor mods to the exciter, but it tunes up easy. (slugs not in wierd places). Oh, not gonna run it at full power, but wanted to make sure it was up to snuff. Thanks, Tim W5FN
[Repeater-Builder] Maxon SP-5050C Low Band Hand Held Data?
Hi Folks, Came across a low band handheld... price was right! :-) Looks like it is programmable.. even has a EEPROM in 8pin minidip in a socket! Anybody know if it'll go 'up' to 6 meters? thanks, Tim W5FN
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor UHF Repeater Base 9.6 vdc current requirement?
Hey Skipp, I've just removed the AC supply from a SpectraTac receiver shelf. Has a Micor RX & a couple of cards. System draws less than 200ma. I used an LM317 (a couple of caps & R's)... soldered the tab directly to a piece of PCB material. Runs all day long with 12 input & doesn't even get warm. - Using it for a solar 6 mtr RX site. Tim W5FN
[Repeater-Builder] K1003A vs K1005 Channel Element Differences
Hi Folks, I'm working on a low band Micor, and only have some K1005A channel elements. (they are the 'vhf' elements... the 1003 are the 'low band'). I've looked at the schematic to the 1005 here on RB versus what I see in the 1005, and with the exception of a resistor, and possibly the positioning of the temperature compensating capacitors, they appear the same. (they do have different frequency ranges). Has anyone used a 1005 in place of the 1003 by just changing the crystal frequency range? Just wonderin'. Thanks, Tim
[Repeater-Builder] Re: DB-201 Measurements for 6 Meters?
Thanks for the info guys, I had planned on keeping it about 5 feet away from the tower for the TX antenna.. the RX antenna will be at the top of the mast, so it won't be an issue. (split site) Guess I'll do a bit of experimenting with the mounting. Tim
[Repeater-Builder] DB-201 Measurements for 6 Meters?
Hi Folks, I looked at the cutting 'chart' here on r-b, but it didn't make much sense. The antennas that I have are at 47.2MHz, and resonate exactly at that frequency. I removed the loop, and the measurements are from Tip of curve to the end of each piece is 54" and 58". The cutting chart says 58.875 & 83.250. I'm missing something! Ideas? Thanks, Tim
[Repeater-Builder] Micor Low Band Mobile TX/AMP Schematics
Hi folks, Anybody have a schematic for a Micor low band mobile? I need schematics for the Exciter, PA, and the control board that sits between the TX & RX. Thanks! Tim W5FN
[Repeater-Builder] fLow Band Micor Mobile Schematics?
Not sure if the manuals are still available from Mot... anybody have some .PDFs? thanks, Tim
[Repeater-Builder] Micor Mobile Physical Specifications (size & weight)
Hi Folks, I am needing the size and weight of a Micor mobile (for shipping purposes). (no accessories) Thanks, Tim W5FN
[Repeater-Builder] WTT High Band Micor Repeater exciter & final for Low Band
Hi Folks, I'm looking for a Low Band Micor Repeater exciter and Final that I can put on 6 meters. (I already have all the other stuff) I have a High Band version of same stuff to trade. Figured I'd ask here first. Thanks, Tim W5FN
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Battery system for portable repeater (non solar)
I spoke with the technical folks at Optima today, and got some interesting information. 1. For this application, they recommend the Yellow top battery. 2. This battery can be completely 'drained' (down to 0 volts), and be recharged. 300 times - they guarantee for 2 years 3. To recharge from a 0V state, they recommend paralleling another battery with it, and then using a battery charger to bring it up to 13.1 volts. They said that without the parallel battery 'faking' out the charger, the charger may not charge the dead battery properly. Just thought I would pass along this information. Was encouraged by #2. Thanks, Tim
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Battery system for portable repeater (non solar)
Thanks Michael, Videos look pretty informative. I'll see about one of the yellow top ones. Tim --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Ryan" wrote: > > There is a nice video on their website. - m > > http://www.optimabatteries.com/home.php > > > > > > > > From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of va...@... > Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 9:23 AM > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Battery system for portable repeater > (non solar) > > > > > > I think the yellow top optimas are for deep cycle apps. Check their website. > > > Va2ir > > Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry > > _ > > From: "tahrens301" > > Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 14:11:05 - > > To: > > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Battery system for portable repeater (non > solar) > > > > > > Are the optima type batteries meant for extended deep > discharges? > > Tim > > --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> , "KD8BIW" wrote: > > > > Something such as an Optima Yellow top battery would be okay in this use. > They are sealed, spillproof AGM batteries. Keep them at their "float" > voltage and you should not have a problem. Use these for battery back-up at > numerous repeaters and have not had a problem (yet...). Good luck and let us > know what you come up with, and how it works for you! > > > > Steve > > > > --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> , Tim Ahrens wrote: > > > > > > Hi Eric/all, > > > > > > It is on a totally different frequency, and licensed as a mobile - > > > within a 24km radius around the center of our district. > > > > > > All the fire repeaters in the county have the same output & > > > input frequencies, just have different input PLs. Kind of a > > > pain to go to direct with some older radios... e.g. X9000 > > > which when you push the 'dir' button, it uses the TX PL. > > > > > > Laryn - these were some pretty high dollar units, so I > > > wouldn't have expected them to fry the batteries. > > > > > > I'll look into the AGM bats - the rptr draws about 450 > > > mA in RX, and about 4A in TX. > > > > > > Getting a Pelican case for the repeater & cables, but > > > not sure how to make the battery transportable.. I > > > suppose if it's 'really' sealed, then I wouldn't have to > > > worry about leakage of the electrolyte - could use > > > a case for it & the charger. > > > > > > Any recommendations about appropriate & 'sure-fire' > > > chargers for one of these? I could put together something > > > for float charging, but there will also be a need for 'real' > > > charging as well. > > > > > > Thanks again, > > > > > > Tim > > > > > > > > > > > __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 4820 (20100130) __ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com >
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Battery system for portable repeater (non solar)
Are the optima type batteries meant for extended deep discharges? Tim --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "KD8BIW" wrote: > > Something such as an Optima Yellow top battery would be okay in this use. > They are sealed, spillproof AGM batteries. Keep them at their "float" > voltage and you should not have a problem. Use these for battery back-up at > numerous repeaters and have not had a problem (yet...). Good luck and let us > know what you come up with, and how it works for you! > > Steve > > --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Tim Ahrens wrote: > > > > Hi Eric/all, > > > > It is on a totally different frequency, and licensed as a mobile - > > within a 24km radius around the center of our district. > > > > All the fire repeaters in the county have the same output & > > input frequencies, just have different input PLs. Kind of a > > pain to go to direct with some older radios... e.g. X9000 > > which when you push the 'dir' button, it uses the TX PL. > > > > Laryn - these were some pretty high dollar units, so I > > wouldn't have expected them to fry the batteries. > > > > I'll look into the AGM bats - the rptr draws about 450 > > mA in RX, and about 4A in TX. > > > > Getting a Pelican case for the repeater & cables, but > > not sure how to make the battery transportable.. I > > suppose if it's 'really' sealed, then I wouldn't have to > > worry about leakage of the electrolyte - could use > > a case for it & the charger. > > > > Any recommendations about appropriate & 'sure-fire' > > chargers for one of these? I could put together something > > for float charging, but there will also be a need for 'real' > > charging as well. > > > > Thanks again, > > > > Tim > > >
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Battery system for portable repeater (non solar)
Hi Larry... Batteries that ended up with no electrolyte - it had all boiled off. We've had numerous 'battery maintenance' systems on our trucks over the years which have resulted in the batteries having a shortened life. All were touted as 'will not overcharge, etc'. (responding to a call trying & having to jump start the firetruck isn't considered good form) :-O Tim --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "larynl2" wrote: > > > > --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "tahrens301" wrote: > > > Just not sure about leaving a trickle charger going > > all the time. (bad previous experiences) > > We'll want to know... What were your "bad previous experiences" regarding > trickle charging? Then we can give you better answers. > > Laryn K8TVZ >
[Repeater-Builder] Battery system for portable repeater (non solar)
Now that the actual repeater is complete, I am looking for some suggestions about how to power it. The repeater and +12v power source will be stored in our rescue truck. The idea behind this is to be able to set it up on top of a hill so that we can have communications with personnel on the other side. (although we have a pretty good 'main' repeater, there are many areas of our district where we don't have handheld coverage). There won't be any charging while at the operating site - a fresh battery will be brought in as required, or it could possibly be powered by a vehicle. Ideally, I'd like to store the power source on the truck with a trickle charger to keep it ready to go, but I'm concerned about gas. Do the AGM style batteries outgas while charging? >From what I've read about backup power, the AGM is the most 'forgiving' for really deep cycling. Just not sure about leaving a trickle charger going all the time. (bad previous experiences) Thanks, Tim
[Repeater-Builder] Re: VHF Vari-Notch Duplexers - 2" x 2" x 4" ???
Hi Eric/Merrill, all The split is 4.5 MHz, (154.370/158.985), and we had been having some problems with the old repeater, so I pulled it out of service & started checking the system. When I got to the duplexers, I noticed that there was excessive loss in them, so I started a re-tune of them. That's how I got here! Hopefully tomorrow the TXRX guy will have found a manual for them. Kind of at a loss trying to figure it out. thanks, Tim --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Lemmon" wrote: > > Tim, > > My TX-RX catalog states that the "28" identifies the unit as "Vari-Notch > Circuit (Pseudo Band Pass)". The "41" identifies the range as 148-174 MHz. > I could not find the "05" in a model number with the other two numbers, but > I suspect that the small size of the modules indicates a spacing of perhaps > 3.0 or 4.5 MHz. What were the tuned frequencies when you received it? Did > it test okay on the original pair? > > 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY > > > -Original Message----- > From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tahrens301 > Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 6:21 PM > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: VHF Vari-Notch Duplexers - 2" x 2" x 4" ??? > > > > Hi Merrill, > > Yep, that's what the label says. > > Now, gotta figure out why they aren't > living up to specs. > > Tnx > > Tim > > --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> , Merrill wrote: > > > > Tx-Rx model 28-41-05 "Vari-Notch" pseudo-pass, notch > > duplexer. > > This is the appx two RU duplexer for wide split repeaters, > > Comprised of five of the two inch square cavities. > > Tx-Rx manual says 2.5 mhz spacing. > > Tag says Tx 1.5 dB insertion for 76 dB isolation, and Rx is 1.1 dB for > > 110dB(Tx is 76dB at Rx and Rx is 110 at Tx) > > Three cavities on Rx, two on Tx. > > > > > > > > On 1/28/2010 8:28 PM, tahrens301 wrote: > > > Hi Rob, > > > > > > Sorry, I forgot to put the model number in the original > > > posting! > > > > > > It's 28-41-05 > > > > > > It has 3 of the blocks in the TX line, and 2 in the > > > RX. It's in a 2 1/4" thick rack panel. > > > > > > I opened one up, and it looks like a helical resonator > > > with a silver slug that goes in and out, and the BNC > > > connectors have a loop that is 90 degrees to the larger > > > coil and has an air variable cap to ground. > > > > > > thanks! > > > > > > Tim > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> , "Rob Lee" wrote: > > > > > >> > > >> The duplexer that you have may not be a "Vari-Notch" unit. Your > description > > >> sounds like a "30 series" unit (Model number will start with a 30 e.g. > > >> 30-36-01A) > > >> > > >> The 30 series VHF duplexers are specially designed to work with > repeaters > > >> that exhibit problems when connected to high selectivity duplexers. > This > > >> design uses three standard notch type filters on the transmitter side > which > > >> provide excellent noise filtering while maintaining a relatively low > VSWR > > >> over a wide frequency range. This helps minimize transmitter > sensitivity to > > >> cable length between the duplexer and the transmitter and also reduces > the > > >> potential for transmitter spurs. > > >> > > >> The receiver portion of the duplexer incorporates three pseudo bandpass > > >> filters to give isolation to the transmit carrier and reduce > interference > > >> and intermodulation caused by other nearby transmitters. > > >> > > >> Because different types of cavity filters are used for the transmit and > > >> receive sides of the duplexer, it is important that the correct model > be > > >> used. Model numbers are different for units designed for either the > > >> transmitter higher or lower than the receiver frequency. > > >> > > >> I have tuning instructions if this sounds like the unit. > > >> > > >> Rob K7TGU > > >> > > >> > > >> - Original Message - > > >> From: "tahre
[Repeater-Builder] Re: VHF Vari-Notch Duplexers - 2" x 2" x 4" ???
Hi Merrill, Yep, that's what the label says. Now, gotta figure out why they aren't living up to specs. Tnx Tim --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Merrill wrote: > > Tx-Rx model 28-41-05 "Vari-Notch" pseudo-pass, notch > duplexer. > This is the appx two RU duplexer for wide split repeaters, > Comprised of five of the two inch square cavities. > Tx-Rx manual says 2.5 mhz spacing. > Tag says Tx 1.5 dB insertion for 76 dB isolation, and Rx is 1.1 dB for > 110dB(Tx is 76dB at Rx and Rx is 110 at Tx) > Three cavities on Rx, two on Tx. > > > > On 1/28/2010 8:28 PM, tahrens301 wrote: > > Hi Rob, > > > > Sorry, I forgot to put the model number in the original > > posting! > > > > It's 28-41-05 > > > > It has 3 of the blocks in the TX line, and 2 in the > > RX. It's in a 2 1/4" thick rack panel. > > > > I opened one up, and it looks like a helical resonator > > with a silver slug that goes in and out, and the BNC > > connectors have a loop that is 90 degrees to the larger > > coil and has an air variable cap to ground. > > > > thanks! > > > > Tim > > > > > > > > --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Rob Lee" wrote: > > > >> > >> The duplexer that you have may not be a "Vari-Notch" unit. Your description > >> sounds like a "30 series" unit (Model number will start with a 30 e.g. > >> 30-36-01A) > >> > >> The 30 series VHF duplexers are specially designed to work with repeaters > >> that exhibit problems when connected to high selectivity duplexers. This > >> design uses three standard notch type filters on the transmitter side which > >> provide excellent noise filtering while maintaining a relatively low VSWR > >> over a wide frequency range. This helps minimize transmitter sensitivity to > >> cable length between the duplexer and the transmitter and also reduces the > >> potential for transmitter spurs. > >> > >> The receiver portion of the duplexer incorporates three pseudo bandpass > >> filters to give isolation to the transmit carrier and reduce interference > >> and intermodulation caused by other nearby transmitters. > >> > >> Because different types of cavity filters are used for the transmit and > >> receive sides of the duplexer, it is important that the correct model be > >> used. Model numbers are different for units designed for either the > >> transmitter higher or lower than the receiver frequency. > >> > >> I have tuning instructions if this sounds like the unit. > >> > >> Rob K7TGU > >> > >> > >> - Original Message - > >> From: "tahrens301" > >> To: > >> Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 15:37 > >> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] VHF Vari-Notch Duplexers - 2" x 2" x 4" ??? > >> > >> > >> > >>> Well, I thought this thing was tuned up, > >>> but obviously something is wrong. > >>> > >>> These are a set of the 2x2x4" cavities... > >>> have a plunger in the front, and a variable > >>> cap adjustment on the back. Also, a pair of > >>> BNC connectors on the capacitor side. > >>> > >>> The plate says Duplexer Vari-Notch, > >>> 147-174 > >>> > >>> It also implies that the TX has a 1.5dB > >>> insertion loss, but darned if I can get > >>> only about 4.5. > >>> > >>> I've talked to the guys at TX/RX, and they > >>> are looking for a book on them, but nothing > >>> yet. > >>> > >>> Anybody have any tuning instructions/info on > >>> them? > >>> > >>> The plunger is marked 'pass low', and the cap > >>> is reject high. Pretty much self explanatory, > >>> and they tune ok, but the insertion loss is > >>> higher than it appears it should be. > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> Tim > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > >
[Repeater-Builder] Re: VHF Vari-Notch Duplexers - 2" x 2" x 4" ???
Hi Rob, Sorry, I forgot to put the model number in the original posting! It's 28-41-05 It has 3 of the blocks in the TX line, and 2 in the RX. It's in a 2 1/4" thick rack panel. I opened one up, and it looks like a helical resonator with a silver slug that goes in and out, and the BNC connectors have a loop that is 90 degrees to the larger coil and has an air variable cap to ground. thanks! Tim --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Rob Lee" wrote: > > > The duplexer that you have may not be a "Vari-Notch" unit. Your description > sounds like a "30 series" unit (Model number will start with a 30 e.g. > 30-36-01A) > > The 30 series VHF duplexers are specially designed to work with repeaters > that exhibit problems when connected to high selectivity duplexers. This > design uses three standard notch type filters on the transmitter side which > provide excellent noise filtering while maintaining a relatively low VSWR > over a wide frequency range. This helps minimize transmitter sensitivity to > cable length between the duplexer and the transmitter and also reduces the > potential for transmitter spurs. > > The receiver portion of the duplexer incorporates three pseudo bandpass > filters to give isolation to the transmit carrier and reduce interference > and intermodulation caused by other nearby transmitters. > > Because different types of cavity filters are used for the transmit and > receive sides of the duplexer, it is important that the correct model be > used. Model numbers are different for units designed for either the > transmitter higher or lower than the receiver frequency. > > I have tuning instructions if this sounds like the unit. > > Rob K7TGU > > > - Original Message - > From: "tahrens301" > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 15:37 > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] VHF Vari-Notch Duplexers - 2" x 2" x 4" ??? > > > > Well, I thought this thing was tuned up, > > but obviously something is wrong. > > > > These are a set of the 2x2x4" cavities... > > have a plunger in the front, and a variable > > cap adjustment on the back. Also, a pair of > > BNC connectors on the capacitor side. > > > > The plate says Duplexer Vari-Notch, > > 147-174 > > > > It also implies that the TX has a 1.5dB > > insertion loss, but darned if I can get > > only about 4.5. > > > > I've talked to the guys at TX/RX, and they > > are looking for a book on them, but nothing > > yet. > > > > Anybody have any tuning instructions/info on > > them? > > > > The plunger is marked 'pass low', and the cap > > is reject high. Pretty much self explanatory, > > and they tune ok, but the insertion loss is > > higher than it appears it should be. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Tim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >
[Repeater-Builder] Re: VHF Vari-Notch Duplexers - 2" x 2" x 4" ???
Hi Merrill, Yep, that's what the label says. Now, gotta figure out why they aren't living up to specs. Tnx Tim --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Merrill wrote: > > Tx-Rx model 28-41-05 "Vari-Notch" pseudo-pass, notch > duplexer. > This is the appx two RU duplexer for wide split repeaters, > Comprised of five of the two inch square cavities. > Tx-Rx manual says 2.5 mhz spacing. > Tag says Tx 1.5 dB insertion for 76 dB isolation, and Rx is 1.1 dB for > 110dB(Tx is 76dB at Rx and Rx is 110 at Tx) > Three cavities on Rx, two on Tx. > > > > On 1/28/2010 8:28 PM, tahrens301 wrote: > > Hi Rob, > > > > Sorry, I forgot to put the model number in the original > > posting! > > > > It's 28-41-05 > > > > It has 3 of the blocks in the TX line, and 2 in the > > RX. It's in a 2 1/4" thick rack panel. > > > > I opened one up, and it looks like a helical resonator > > with a silver slug that goes in and out, and the BNC > > connectors have a loop that is 90 degrees to the larger > > coil and has an air variable cap to ground. > > > > thanks! > > > > Tim > > > > > > > > --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Rob Lee" wrote: > > > >> > >> The duplexer that you have may not be a "Vari-Notch" unit. Your description > >> sounds like a "30 series" unit (Model number will start with a 30 e.g. > >> 30-36-01A) > >> > >> The 30 series VHF duplexers are specially designed to work with repeaters > >> that exhibit problems when connected to high selectivity duplexers. This > >> design uses three standard notch type filters on the transmitter side which > >> provide excellent noise filtering while maintaining a relatively low VSWR > >> over a wide frequency range. This helps minimize transmitter sensitivity to > >> cable length between the duplexer and the transmitter and also reduces the > >> potential for transmitter spurs. > >> > >> The receiver portion of the duplexer incorporates three pseudo bandpass > >> filters to give isolation to the transmit carrier and reduce interference > >> and intermodulation caused by other nearby transmitters. > >> > >> Because different types of cavity filters are used for the transmit and > >> receive sides of the duplexer, it is important that the correct model be > >> used. Model numbers are different for units designed for either the > >> transmitter higher or lower than the receiver frequency. > >> > >> I have tuning instructions if this sounds like the unit. > >> > >> Rob K7TGU > >> > >> > >> - Original Message - > >> From: "tahrens301" > >> To: > >> Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 15:37 > >> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] VHF Vari-Notch Duplexers - 2" x 2" x 4" ??? > >> > >> > >> > >>> Well, I thought this thing was tuned up, > >>> but obviously something is wrong. > >>> > >>> These are a set of the 2x2x4" cavities... > >>> have a plunger in the front, and a variable > >>> cap adjustment on the back. Also, a pair of > >>> BNC connectors on the capacitor side. > >>> > >>> The plate says Duplexer Vari-Notch, > >>> 147-174 > >>> > >>> It also implies that the TX has a 1.5dB > >>> insertion loss, but darned if I can get > >>> only about 4.5. > >>> > >>> I've talked to the guys at TX/RX, and they > >>> are looking for a book on them, but nothing > >>> yet. > >>> > >>> Anybody have any tuning instructions/info on > >>> them? > >>> > >>> The plunger is marked 'pass low', and the cap > >>> is reject high. Pretty much self explanatory, > >>> and they tune ok, but the insertion loss is > >>> higher than it appears it should be. > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> Tim > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > >
[Repeater-Builder] Re: VHF Vari-Notch Duplexers - 2" x 2" x 4" ???
Hi Rob, Sorry, I forgot to put the model number in the original posting! It's 28-41-05 It has 3 of the blocks in the TX line, and 2 in the RX. It's in a 2 1/4" thick rack panel. I opened one up, and it looks like a helical resonator with a silver slug that goes in and out, and the BNC connectors have a loop that is 90 degrees to the larger coil and has an air variable cap to ground. thanks! Tim --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Rob Lee" wrote: > > > The duplexer that you have may not be a "Vari-Notch" unit. Your description > sounds like a "30 series" unit (Model number will start with a 30 e.g. > 30-36-01A) > > The 30 series VHF duplexers are specially designed to work with repeaters > that exhibit problems when connected to high selectivity duplexers. This > design uses three standard notch type filters on the transmitter side which > provide excellent noise filtering while maintaining a relatively low VSWR > over a wide frequency range. This helps minimize transmitter sensitivity to > cable length between the duplexer and the transmitter and also reduces the > potential for transmitter spurs. > > The receiver portion of the duplexer incorporates three pseudo bandpass > filters to give isolation to the transmit carrier and reduce interference > and intermodulation caused by other nearby transmitters. > > Because different types of cavity filters are used for the transmit and > receive sides of the duplexer, it is important that the correct model be > used. Model numbers are different for units designed for either the > transmitter higher or lower than the receiver frequency. > > I have tuning instructions if this sounds like the unit. > > Rob K7TGU > > > - Original Message - > From: "tahrens301" > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 15:37 > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] VHF Vari-Notch Duplexers - 2" x 2" x 4" ??? > > > > Well, I thought this thing was tuned up, > > but obviously something is wrong. > > > > These are a set of the 2x2x4" cavities... > > have a plunger in the front, and a variable > > cap adjustment on the back. Also, a pair of > > BNC connectors on the capacitor side. > > > > The plate says Duplexer Vari-Notch, > > 147-174 > > > > It also implies that the TX has a 1.5dB > > insertion loss, but darned if I can get > > only about 4.5. > > > > I've talked to the guys at TX/RX, and they > > are looking for a book on them, but nothing > > yet. > > > > Anybody have any tuning instructions/info on > > them? > > > > The plunger is marked 'pass low', and the cap > > is reject high. Pretty much self explanatory, > > and they tune ok, but the insertion loss is > > higher than it appears it should be. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Tim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >
[Repeater-Builder] Re: VHF Vari-Notch Duplexers - 2" x 2" x 4" ???
Hi DCf, I thought so too, but hooked up to/from coax between spect analy & freq gen, & didn't show any appreciable attenuation. Each cavity seems to have about 1.5dB loss each. Hmmm, maybe the 1.5dB on the mounting plate means each! :-) I found the same thing on some old dB products cans... the loops weren't even soldered at the connector end.. just a blob of solder! Tim --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, DCFluX wrote: > > Faulty cable harness or cable between test equipment? > > Also I just went through a set of duplexers that the solder joints on > the coupling loops were completely shot. > > On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 4:37 PM, tahrens301 wrote: > > Well, I thought this thing was tuned up, > > but obviously something is wrong. > > > > These are a set of the 2x2x4" cavities... > > have a plunger in the front, and a variable > > cap adjustment on the back. Also, a pair of > > BNC connectors on the capacitor side. > > > > The plate says Duplexer Vari-Notch, > > 147-174 > > > > It also implies that the TX has a 1.5dB > > insertion loss, but darned if I can get > > only about 4.5. > > > > I've talked to the guys at TX/RX, and they > > are looking for a book on them, but nothing > > yet. > > > > Anybody have any tuning instructions/info on > > them? > > > > The plunger is marked 'pass low', and the cap > > is reject high. Pretty much self explanatory, > > and they tune ok, but the insertion loss is > > higher than it appears it should be. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Tim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >
[Repeater-Builder] VHF Vari-Notch Duplexers - 2" x 2" x 4" ???
Well, I thought this thing was tuned up, but obviously something is wrong. These are a set of the 2x2x4" cavities... have a plunger in the front, and a variable cap adjustment on the back. Also, a pair of BNC connectors on the capacitor side. The plate says Duplexer Vari-Notch, 147-174 It also implies that the TX has a 1.5dB insertion loss, but darned if I can get only about 4.5. I've talked to the guys at TX/RX, and they are looking for a book on them, but nothing yet. Anybody have any tuning instructions/info on them? The plunger is marked 'pass low', and the cap is reject high. Pretty much self explanatory, and they tune ok, but the insertion loss is higher than it appears it should be. Thanks, Tim
[Repeater-Builder] Duplexer for TKR-720
Anybody have any experience with the duplexers in this repeater? (I have the repeater, and was wondering if it worth trying to find one, or go elsewhere). Will be running the repeater at 20w, with a 4.55mhz split. I've seen the '$99' specials on e-bay.. would they be a decent alternative to the OEM duplexer? (I know they aren't as good as a full-sized duplexer). This is for a portable repeater - inside a Pelican box for storage and transport, so trying to reduce the required space as much as possible. Thanks, Tim
[Repeater-Builder] 6 Meter Repeater spacing (no duplexers)
Hi Folks, I was just wondering if one of you who has the software to do so could look up how much horizontal separation it would take on 6 meters. I have two sites 8 miles apart, and vertically separated by about 30 meters. just wonderin' Thanks, Tim W5FN
[Repeater-Builder] Micor VHF 12W Amplifier??
Hi Folks, I've been looking into making a solar repeater (from the Micor repeaters that I already have on hand). Obviously the 100W or 60W amplifiers are out of the question, not only in power, but really in size. I noticed that there is some silkscreen on the transmitter interconnect board (in the big hole to the right of the exciter) that says 12WPA. Didn't know whether Mot actually had put a low power amplifier into the space or not. Anybody know? Thanks, Tim
[Repeater-Builder] XTL2500 Control Head Contrast
Hi Folks, I asked this question on Batlabs, but haven't gotten any response, so I figured I'd ask here. I have an XTL2500 Mobile unit, and the control head is angled so the viewing angle is really bad - the entire display looks somewhat dark - certainly darker than looking straight on. Anybody have a clue how to change the viewing angle on the control head? Just figured I'd ask before looking at the guts of the LCD driver & seeing how they bias it. Thanks, Tim
[Repeater-Builder] MSTR II Mobile @ < 100W
Hi Folks, I've acquired a MSTR II mobile that has already been placed in repeater service, with a large control box, etc attached via the main connector on the front of the radio. I'm planning on removing all of the external stuff (speaker, etc) to make it as self contained as possible. Found a wealth of info here on RB. Since I'm looking at using it as a solar pwr'd repeater, what is the best way to turn the power down (without making a bunch of spurs along with it)? The model# tag is no longer attached, but the final PCB has the number: PL19D416964G1REVF. It is VHF, and has 4 power transistors across the board. I've heard that running the amp at less than rated power isn't a good thing to do. thanks, Tim
[Repeater-Builder] Spectra Audio Popping after Capacitor replacement
Hi Folks, I've been working on these Spectras, and so far, the capacitors have done the trick. But on this last radio, the speaker pops whenever the audio path is open (unsquelched, signal, mode change, etc). Just curious if there's something I've missed. Thanks, Tim
[Repeater-Builder] Simulcasting of Repeaters
Hi Folks, I know it's been done a lot, but I have no experience in having two repeaters simulcasting. Here's the info: There is an existing repeater that has some coverage issues in a neighboring area. The folks in that area, while still wanting to be on the same output frequency, will put a 2nd repeater (with a different rx PL tone) up on a hill. What kinds of issues will we see (from a user's perspective)? The dispatcher will probably key up both repeaters at the same time for tone-out purposes. What kind of frequency tolerance is acceptable to make sure there isn't any hetrodyning? (especially with PL tones & tone-out tones). thanks, Tim
[Repeater-Builder] Power Connectors - spectras/GM/Maxtrac/...
Hi Folks, I'm looking for some power connectors for the above types of radios. I don't need much more than pigtails, as I am doing a special cabling project. I've looked at both Mouser & Digikey, but they don't seem to carry anything similar. I have seen 'generic' types before... somewhere! If anybody has some ideas, please let me know. I need about 20 of them. Thanks, Tim
[Repeater-Builder] Motorola Suitcase Repeater - Spectra
Hi Folks, I was perusing the 'for sale' list on QRZ.com the other day, and came across a suitcase repeater which had a spectra control head visible. I was wondering how they did it. Can a spectra be turned into a repeater? Did they use two separate Spectras & a single head? Inquiring minds want to know! thanks, Tim
[Repeater-Builder] Tone Reeds Needed (swap?)
Hi Folks, I need the following: 1 Vibrasender (TX) KLN6210A/TLN6824A 141.3 Hz 1 Vibrasponder (RX) TLN8381A 186.2 Hz I have bunches of the Sender reeds: 100.0, 123.0, 151.4, & 206.5. Thanks, Tim
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Mitrek/MSR200 preamp needed
Hi Joe, I'm looking for one as well, if your junk box is that deep! (VHF MSR2000) Thanks, Tim W5FN --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "burkleoj" wrote: > > Wayne, > I have had much better luck with Angle Linear preamps than the Mitrek/MSR2000 > units. > > Chip does offer a Amateur Discount also. > > If you absolutely have to have a factory preamp, I will look through my > MSR2000/Mitrek VHF units and see if I have one. > > Joe - WA7JAW > > --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne" wrote: > > > > I am in need of a HLD4051A or HLD4052A receiver preamp out of a Mitrek or > > MSR2000. This is the plug in preamp that goes in the helical resonator. > > This is for vhf 146.xx. If anyone has one or two let me know how much you > > want. > > > > Thanks > > Wayne > > >
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor Repeater Modifications
Hi Jim, I understand about the 2012 changeover, and all of our radios are capable. However, if I can put together a backup repeater that will be a viable alternative for less than $100 that will last us until that time, I consider it a good investment. If I don't do it, we'll get hit by lightning & our only repeater will get zapped. If I do make it, then the weather will be fine, & it will have been a 'waste'. Just like insurance! :-) Thanks, Tim --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, wd8chl wrote: > > tahrens301 wrote: > > Hi Folks, > > > > I picked up a bunch of Micor repeaters today, > > and as I figured, they have the TLD xxx4 > > receiver in them. (160-174mhz). > > > > I know that to put on 2 meters, new resonators > > & some other stuff is required, but is it > > necessary if I go down to 154? > > > > I'm working on this as a backup repeater for our > > FD. > > > > Also, DRAT, no channel elements! > > > > Did find one other interesting piece - an X9000 > > base station. Mighty big & will certainly hold > > down the desk. (yep, it really is an x9000 :-)) > > (previous thread). > > > > Thanks, > > > > Tim > > I wouldn't put anything into doing that for a Fire Dept. By the end of > 2012, they are REQUIRED to go narrowband on VHF and UHF (low band and > 800 are exempt). While there are kits to modify the receivers for Micors > and others, there is some serious question as to whether the > transmitters can be considered 'certified' or 'accepted' for narrowband > use. It's more then just turning down the deviation. There is adjacent > channel noise/splatter to consider. Not to mention frequency stability. >
[Repeater-Builder] Micor DVP Repeater to Non DVP Rptr Conversion
Hi Folks, Before I dig into the manuals (so thoughtfully provided by RB)!! for the DVP repeater, I thought I'd ask if anyone had already done the conversion & had some stuff written up. Otherwise, guess I'll be the first! Thanks, Tim
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor Repeater Modifications
Hi Kevin, I found a couple of channel elements - who said being a packrat was a bad thing?! Plugged one (154.385) into the -4 board, & couldn't get a peak with the screws all the way in! You are correctomundo. However, I did have a spectratac receiver & pulled the board out of it, & tuned right up (it was a -3 board). I also found a -2 board in one of my storage boxes along with a 147.93 element, so will see how it combines. Yes, I have a bunch of the -4 boards... 5 right now, but plenty more to come! If anybody needs one, drop me a note off line. Thanks for all the info... now, if I can figure out how to get the audio through the box, we'll be home free! (it has the secure cards on the left of the rack, & some strange wires on the back). Tim --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Custer wrote: > > tahrens301 wrote: > > Hi Folks, > > > > I picked up a bunch of Micor repeaters today, > > and as I figured, they have the TLD xxx4 > > receiver in them. (160-174mhz). > > > > I know that to put on 2 meters, new resonators > > & some other stuff is required, but is it > > necessary if I go down to 154? > > > > Yes, the capacitors will need changed for proper operation in the 150.8 > to 162 range. The helical resonators for the VHF MICOR were in 2 > splits, where the receiver boards were in 4 splits. The helical > resonators for the lower of the two splits (xxx1 and xxx2) covered from > 132 - 150.8 MHz. The helical resonators for the upper two splits (xxx3 > and xxx4) covered 150.8 to 174 MHz. > > The better thing to do would be to trade someone looking to do a 220 > conversion. The xxx4 is the better receiver to start with when doing a > 220 conversion. I'd bet with the recent 220 inquiries here there would > be someone willing to swap you xxx3's for your xxx4's! > > Kevin >
[Repeater-Builder] Re: HPN1000A Power Supply Schematic/Specs?
Thanks Eric!!! Tim --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Lemmon" wrote: > > Tim, > > The information is on page 47 of the manual here: > -68p81040e80a.pdf> > > 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY > > > -Original Message- > From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tahrens301 > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 9:55 AM > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] HPN1000A Power Supply Schematic/Specs? > > > > Hi All, > > That X9000 'consolette' didn't work with all the secure boxes & > stuff attached, but I removed the radio, control head & added a > standard cable, reprogrammed it, and it works. > > Anyway, the power supply that was inside is marked HPN 1000A. > > Anybody have a schematic or spec sheet on it? It looks pretty > substantial. I saw the info on the Mitrek Consolette page in RB, > but there weren't any specs on it. > > Thanks, > > Tim >
[Repeater-Builder] HPN1000A Power Supply Schematic/Specs?
Hi All, That X9000 'consolette' didn't work with all the secure boxes & stuff attached, but I removed the radio, control head & added a standard cable, reprogrammed it, and it works. Anyway, the power supply that was inside is marked HPN 1000A. Anybody have a schematic or spec sheet on it? It looks pretty substantial. I saw the info on the Mitrek Consolette page in RB, but there weren't any specs on it. Thanks, Tim
[Repeater-Builder] Micor Repeater Modifications
Hi Folks, I picked up a bunch of Micor repeaters today, and as I figured, they have the TLD xxx4 receiver in them. (160-174mhz). I know that to put on 2 meters, new resonators & some other stuff is required, but is it necessary if I go down to 154? I'm working on this as a backup repeater for our FD. Also, DRAT, no channel elements! Did find one other interesting piece - an X9000 base station. Mighty big & will certainly hold down the desk. (yep, it really is an x9000 :-)) (previous thread). Thanks, Tim
[Repeater-Builder] Re: MSR2000 Modules wanted
Hi Skipp, Thanks for the info. Since I'm planning on keeping the box as 'mot' as possible (less work?), I'll stick to the stock modules. Perhaps later I will add an Ider, but that can be added pretty easily later. It would be interesting to see what jumpers are necessary in the repeater configuration of this box. I have the printout of the original remote base configuration. Thanks, Tim --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "skipp025" wrote: > > > > > Re: MSR2000 Modules wanted > > I see where Juan replied with good news to your post. > Maybe you can pick up the Modules you need from him... > > You don't have to have and use an original MSR-2000 > Squelch Gate Module, but it's better if you do. Some > Repeater Controllers can take Discriminator Audio > direct from the Receiver and make their own internal > COS/COR Signal. > > Or... you can tap the separate R1-Audio Module squelch > circuit, which is pretty darn good unto itself as a > COR/COS logic source. > > Once again it's well worth mentioning the best option is > to use the original Squelch Gate Module with the corresponding > R1-Audio Module properly set up and aligned. The resultant > Dual Squelch Circuits action works very well and presents > itself as similar to the now famous Micor Squelch Gate Chip > operation. > > The standard duplex (repeater) CTCSS (PL) Module does > allow separate encode and decode. If you have a base > station PL Module, it's probably half duplex. Yes you > can convert a half duplex PL Module into a Repeater > Version using the major parts from a Mitrek Mobile > CTCSS board. > > Or you wire a Tone Panel to the back plane and it will > generate COR/COS to/for an external controller. Depending > on what brand & model the eternal Tone Panel can supply > COS/COR Logic in both CTCSS and/or Carrier Squelch ops. > But in most cases it will decode a valid CTCSS so you'll > get a COS/COR signal from the Panel (Tx Line/Output) with > a sub tone (CTCSS) present. > > Please use the Time Out Timer Module if you have one. Even > if you don't like the thought of one... you can set it to > 10 minutes and pretty much forget about it until something > bad happens and you pat yourself on the back for using it. > > cheers, > s. > > > "tahrens301" wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > > > I recently acquired an MSR2000 2 receiver remote base > > that I am going to convert to a basic kerchunk-able backup > > repeater. > > > > I know I'll need a squelch gate module, but unsure about > > the PL cards - the repeater must have separate TX & RX > > PLs. > > > > I've reviewed the docs on RB & got some good ideas, but > > need some hardware also. > > > > Thought I'd see if there were some junkbox cards laying around. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Tim W5FN > > >
[Repeater-Builder] MSR2000 Modules wanted
Hi All, I recently acquired an MSR2000 2 receiver remote base that I am going to convert to a basic kerchunk-able backup repeater. I know I'll need a squelch gate module, but unsure about the PL cards - the repeater must have separate TX & RX PLs. I've reviewed the docs on RB & got some good ideas, but need some hardware also. Thought I'd see if there were some junkbox cards laying around. Thanks, Tim W5FN
[Repeater-Builder] Re: TKR-820
Hi Paul, I have a TKR-720 (VHF), and was successful in reprogramming it for the ham frequencies. However, it is not for the 'faint of heart'. 1. There are two EEPROM devices which must be reprogrammed. One for the frequencies, and one for PL. 2. The EEPROM device for the frequencies is soldered to the front panel board. You must unsolder & put a socket in place of it (so you can plug in the re-programmed device). 3. You must make your own EEPROM programmer. It's not all that difficult - just a socket & a couple of easy to get parts. 4. I use a program called PonyProg, which does the actual reading/writing. Another program called XVI32 is used to change the binary file that you downloaded from the original EEPROM. (you shouldn't destroy the original part). 5. I had to re-tune the VCOs - easy procedure, and the schematics/manual for the 720/820 seem to be available in .pdf form around. Anyhow, I went through this procedure about 2 months ago... you can search through the archives for TKR-720, and probably find the thread which included the programmer schematics & 'how to' guide. Having said that, it'd be a lot easier to get something from Skipp!! Thanks, Tim W5FN --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "skipp025" wrote: > > Hi Paul, > > As others have also replied with similar information... you > need a different type of programming interface for the TKR-820 > and TKR-720 Repeaters, which is called a KPT-50 unit. The KPT-20 > might also work for the cause but it's really a very early > interface not normally seen on the use radio market. > > Regarding the KPT-50 unit: > Depending on where and how you can find one... they are > relatively expensive (at, near or above the $200 amount). You > can search out a process others have mentioned to remove the > signaling and frequency EEproms and program them yourself > if you have the proper hardware (and software). > > I'm a Kenwood Dealer and would program your repeater for free > if you are/were able to get it to our shop here in Northern > California (where the men are men and the sheep are nervous). > I have new and used KPT-50 programmers in stock, but again they > are not super cheap (please contact me off the list direct if > you want more information about buying a KPT-50). > > The TKR-820 might go into the Amateur Band with just a front > end realignment, but there are also cases where the VCO's > (there are two) need re-ranging (adjustment). VCO adjustments > would normally require the Kenwood Service Manual, which should > be on/in the Repeater Builder Web Page Archives. > > The KPT-50 Programmer operates "stand alone" or you can control > it with the DOS KPG-21d software, which makes life much, much > easier for the programmer person. > > A jumper on the Signaling Board enables the Repeater/Base to > use 8 independent combinations of CTCSS or DCS (the industry > names for "PL" and "DPL". > > You're always welcome to Email me direct if you need specific > help with your Kenwood (or any brand we service) Questions. > Of course I'll happily respond to your Group Posts here if > Howard can stand it... :-) > > cheers, > skipp > skipp025 at yahoo.com > www.radiowrench.com > > > > Paul Dumdie wrote: > > > > I have the opertunity to get a Kenwood TKR-820 repeater. I have the > > programing cable that works on a TKR-850 and all of the TK mobiles. > > Will this cable work with a TKR-820? What software works to put the > > repeater in the ham band? Can the repeater do multi PL or DPL? > > > > Thanks! > > > > Paul R. Dumdie Jr. "73" > > W9DWP/R IRLP-NODE-4455 > > 443.025/2A 145.270/1B/1Z/NAC-293 > > ARC-Radio-8 KCARES KCAPS > > HERD546 EX WB9QWZ > > WQGG738-462.725 AAR5CU/T > > www.riflesandradios.com > > www.theherd.com > > >
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Programming of X9000 with Handheld controller
Hi Mike, It might be nice to re-program the module with my frequencies.. I looked through the info, & I'm not quite up to doing it manually... too many bits down the bucket to go back to those days! How bout we take this off line. I'm tahrens at swtexas dot com Thanks, Tim --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Dietrich" wrote: > > No Problem, > Glad you got it figured out. > > What you said about the HHCH for the dual radio 9000 was the one I was > talking about that had the grey box on it, I think it is called a "SIU" box. > I have one of them. > > If I remember right, the one you have is either a 32 or can go 64 channels > with moving a jumper. > > I have the suitcase programmer for those if you need it. > > 73, > Mike KB5FLX > > > - Original Message - > From: tahrens301 > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:28 PM > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Programming of X9000 with Handheld > controller > > > Hi Mike, > > BUSTED! > > Man, I gotta eat crow on this one... I've had X9000s > on the brain for a couple of months now, & by golly, > if that sticker was a snake, it would'a bit me. > > First clue.. I had never seen a control board like > the one that is in this radio... that shoulda' been > an indication that something wasn't right! > > I had never seen a Syntor X, & frankly, thought it was > in a different case. Guess that's why it didn't dawn > on me to even pay attention to the sticker. Tunnel > vision! > > I even got some extra light so I could read the model > number. Talk about the forest & the trees! > > The X9000 did have a provision for a HHCH... it was used > in a dual radio configuration - VHF & UHF radios.. I > even have the book. I guess that didn't help me out with > the main issue tho. > > Anyway, thanks to all who endured the questions with a > really dumb answer! > > Now I gotta go to Batlabs & respond to somebody else > that figured it out. > > Yum, this crow tastes like chicken!! > > Tim >
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Programming of X9000 with Handheld controller
Hi Mike, BUSTED! Man, I gotta eat crow on this one... I've had X9000s on the brain for a couple of months now, & by golly, if that sticker was a snake, it would'a bit me. First clue.. I had never seen a control board like the one that is in this radio... that shoulda' been an indication that something wasn't right! I had never seen a Syntor X, & frankly, thought it was in a different case. Guess that's why it didn't dawn on me to even pay attention to the sticker. Tunnel vision! I even got some extra light so I could read the model number. Talk about the forest & the trees! The X9000 did have a provision for a HHCH... it was used in a dual radio configuration - VHF & UHF radios.. I even have the book. I guess that didn't help me out with the main issue tho. Anyway, thanks to all who endured the questions with a really dumb answer! Now I gotta go to Batlabs & respond to somebody else that figured it out. Yum, this crow tastes like chicken!! Tim
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Programming of X9000 with Handheld controller
Hi Mike, There are actually two boxes between the radio & the HHCH. One is a little smaller than a siren box, and has cutouts for something that looks like perhaps a key hole, plus some other cutouts & places for LEDs to shine through, although inside the box is only two connectors with PCB jumpers between them. (HNN4015A) The second box looks like a RIB box case. (HLN1170A SP01). Inside there is a PCB with some traces & what looks to be places for perhaps an EPROM, but there is nothing populated but connectors & jumpers. I've looked at all of the documentation here & on Batlabs, but nothing talks about the programming of the radio. Thanks! Tim W5FN --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Dietrich" wrote: > > If it has a little grey box the size of the siren box, in the middle with a > key on the front and a bunch of db-9 and db-25 connectors on the back, you > have to have special software to talk to the radio and the grey box. > > Mike > > > - Original Message - > From: tahrens301 > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 1:22 PM > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Programming of X9000 with Handheld controller > > > Hi Folks, > > I put this out on Batlabs, but haven't heard anything, so I > thought I'd try here. > > I got a couple of VHF X9000s that have the hand held controller, > with Securenet stuff inside. > > I've programmed many 'normal' X9000s before, but can't seem > to get this guy to talk. (the computer isn't the issue, as > I have been using same old dos computer for a while). > > I just get the error message "Serial Bus Error, Busy Line locked". > > any clues? > > Thanks, > > Tim W5FN >
[Repeater-Builder] Programming of X9000 with Handheld controller
Hi Folks, I put this out on Batlabs, but haven't heard anything, so I thought I'd try here. I got a couple of VHF X9000s that have the hand held controller, with Securenet stuff inside. I've programmed many 'normal' X9000s before, but can't seem to get this guy to talk. (the computer isn't the issue, as I have been using same old dos computer for a while). I just get the error message "Serial Bus Error, Busy Line locked". any clues? Thanks, Tim W5FN
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Radio Mobile Software
Hi Tom, No problem!! Thanks for the info. That's exactly what happened to me. The earlier version didn't really play very well, but then I did find the version 10 - somebody in the UK had a pretty neat site explaining a lot of things. The new version seemed to be acting properly. But, after playing with things about 4 hours, I got to thinking that perhaps my time could be better spent doing things that I 'need' to do!! Let me know how it goes with you once you get back on the project. Thanks again, Tim W5FN --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "wb6dgn" wrote: > > Tim, > Apologies for the typo; I guess I'm just too used to typing my own name. > Tom DGN > > --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "wb6dgn" wrote: > > > > Tom, > > I, too, just downloaded this program and am on the LOW end of the learning > > curve too. I do remember that the first automatic download that I tried, > > downloaded an old version of the software, around v.7.6.5 or something like > > that, and it didn't work very well. I then stumbled across an automatic > > download for, I think, the newest version (something like 10.0.5) and it > > worked very well right off the bat, but, for me at least, the learning > > curve is still very steep. If you have that older version, email me and > > I'll try to retrace my steps to find out where I found the newer one. > > After I installed that, locating and installing the elevation data went > > fairly smoothly. I then tried a MapQuest grid overlay that also worked > > fairly well, but that's as far as I got before I got sidetracked on some > > other issues and I haven't had a chance to get back to it as yet. I also > > checked out the yahoo groups Radio Mobile site but it appears that they are > > all advanced users that were talking WAY over my head. Hope this helps > > somewhat. > > Tom DGN > > > > --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "tahrens301" wrote: > > > > > > Does anyone have any experience in using this > > > software? > > > > > > I've gotten the main program running, but getting > > > the proper elevation data seems to be a bit iffy. > > > > > > The 'automatic download from the internet' function > > > doesn't appear to work. > > > > > > thanks, > > > > > > Tim W5FN > > > > > >
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Radio Mobile Software
Thanks Phil - looks like that will help. Tim --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Phil Hebert" wrote: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Radio_Mobile_Deluxe/ > > is the group dedicated to the programming >
[Repeater-Builder] Radio Mobile Software
Does anyone have any experience in using this software? I've gotten the main program running, but getting the proper elevation data seems to be a bit iffy. The 'automatic download from the internet' function doesn't appear to work. thanks, Tim W5FN
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna SWR = Desense?
Hi Eric, Hmmm, don't think I said above the station, but if I implied it, no, it's horizontal. I can look out the window & see it! Nate - I only tried the 'ham quality' antenna because I knew it would be a better match than the DB224. It was easy to change, standing on a 6' ladder! Just wanted to see if a poor swr would induce the desense. There are no other communications systems within miles of my location, so who knows. Perhaps the metal building is the problem. A side question, dealing with separation. Obviously, when you are using a split site, vertical separation makes you a lot more $ than horizontal does. But, in this type of situation, where you are a single antenna with a duplexer, what real difference does vertical or horizontal separation from the station make? If I'm horizontal, & could turn the whole system on it's side (including the antenna system), then it would be vertical. The straws that I'm grasping are getting smaller!! Thanks to all! Tim W5FN
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna SWR = Desense?
The antenna is on the top of a small wooden storage building. A mast is placed up against the peak of the roof, and the 224 is on top of that. The metal building that the repeater is in is my garage. Very plain, no air condx, AC power runs around the pearlings about 4' off the ground. Gonna start looking at cables from the Quantar to the duplexer. There was an issue with the RX cable - it is a mini-uhf that connects into the RX casting. The crimp of the braid was not very well connected - I could rotate the entire cable around! Some solder fixed the mechanical aspects of that. Perhaps there was something else. more gray hair is being removed as we speak! haha Thanks, Tim W5FN --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "larynl2" wrote: > > > I still think it may be something in the vicinity of the antenna. What kind > of building is the antenna mounted on/above? > > You've stated that the repeater is in a metal pole building that's 100ft. > away from the antenna. It's been mentioned before in this thread, but that > could be a noise nightmare. You'll need to get your antenna much farther > away or higher to get away from that noise if that's it. > > If you have a small beam that you can hand-hold, that might be interesting to > point around and see of there's changes in desense. > > Laryn K8TVZ >
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna SWR = Desense?
Hi Doug, I put the connectors on the hardline myself, & was very careful in doing so. Also did an RF check with a dummy load on the end, and no loss/problems. I am going to concentrate on the actual connectors from the Quantar. thanks, Tim --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "n3dab" wrote: > > I've been following this thread on and off. I was wondering if you tried > replacing the 100' plus run of RG-214 with another cable. Or if you have > pulled the connectors on each end to see if they are properly installed. (I > have had connectors installed by the cable supplier that were bad. in one > case a direct short between the shield and center conductor because the cable > wasn't properly trimmed, and in another case the shield was deformed during > the installation and the distance between it and the center conductor was > close enought to short when RF was applied but still not show a short when > check with a VOM for continuity.) All it takes is for a couple of strands of > the shield braid to be in the wrong place when you key up. to cause all your > greif. Also, you might want to do the same with all the other cables > (inspect and/or substitute 1 at a time). > > Barring that I would suggest you change out every adapter/fitting and right > angle connector you have in the system, from rptr. to antenna, one at a time > to see if the problem lies there as well. The 100' horizotal distance and > 10' vertical distance are not where the problem is. You have got a faulty > component os sheilding problem. > > My 2 cents worth. > > Doug N3DAB > >
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna SWR = Desense?
Hi Daniel, I wanted to check things out on the ground before heading up to the tower. So far it's been a trainwreck! Maybe the distance is an issue. Thanks, Tim --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, daniel haines wrote: > > > Why don't you raise the antenna, and get the repeater out of the RF field? > > > > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > From: tahr...@... > Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 21:32:35 + > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna SWR = Desense? > > > > > > Hi Scott, > > The 100' of separation is from the repeater to where the > antenna is located. > > I have a Telewave 6 cavity BpBr duplexer on the system. > > Single feed to one antenna. > > Thanks, > > Tim W5FN > > --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Overstreet" wrote: > > > > Tim--- > > > > I forgot that you spoke of 100' antenna separation. This suggests no > > duplexer and two feedlines. The meat of my story is still good---a corroded > > transmit antenna is capable of making and radiating allot of receive > > frequency noise ---even with between antenna pattern attenuation, there > > might well be enough to desense your receiver. > > > > Scott > > > > - Original Message - > > From: Scott Overstreet > > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 1:24 PM > > Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna SWR = Desense? > > > > > > > > Tim > > > > Been there and done that! > > > > My guess is that you have corrosion in the antenna on top. The corrosion > > makes a good wide band rectifier of your transmit power and produces > > sufficient noise at your receive frequency to get back through your > > duplexer > > and into your receiver as desense. Actually, come to think about it, the > > end > > result of the situation is simular to bad LMR-400. > > > > Scott, N6NXI > > - Original Message - > > From: tahrens301 > > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 9:56 AM > > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna SWR = Desense? > > > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > And the winner is. Door # 2. > > > > Put the 2 meter vertical up on the stick at the end of > > the hard line, & the desense was worse! > > > > Perfect match at the feed line end. > > > > Took dummy load & put on far end of hard line & no desense. > > > > Guess it is the proximity to the antenna. Although about 100', > > guess the RF is getting back into the box. > > > > Gonna set the antenna party for Friday morning. The stuff > > is going up on the tower (unless somebody can see some flaw > > in my logic & can suggest test)! > > > > Thanks again to all! > > > > Tim W5FN > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.75/2340 - Release Date: > > 09/01/09 20:03:00 > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.76/2342 - Release Date: 09/02/09 > > 18:03:00 > > >
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna SWR = Desense?
Hi Scott, The 100' of separation is from the repeater to where the antenna is located. I have a Telewave 6 cavity BpBr duplexer on the system. Single feed to one antenna. Thanks, Tim W5FN --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Overstreet" wrote: > > Tim--- > > I forgot that you spoke of 100' antenna separation. This suggests no > duplexer and two feedlines. The meat of my story is still good---a corroded > transmit antenna is capable of making and radiating allot of receive > frequency noise ---even with between antenna pattern attenuation, there > might well be enough to desense your receiver. > > Scott > > - Original Message - > From: Scott Overstreet > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 1:24 PM > Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna SWR = Desense? > > > > Tim > > Been there and done that! > > My guess is that you have corrosion in the antenna on top. The corrosion > makes a good wide band rectifier of your transmit power and produces > sufficient noise at your receive frequency to get back through your duplexer > and into your receiver as desense. Actually, come to think about it, the end > result of the situation is simular to bad LMR-400. > > Scott, N6NXI > - Original Message - > From: tahrens301 > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 9:56 AM > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna SWR = Desense? > > > > Hi All, > > And the winner is. Door # 2. > > Put the 2 meter vertical up on the stick at the end of > the hard line, & the desense was worse! > > Perfect match at the feed line end. > > Took dummy load & put on far end of hard line & no desense. > > Guess it is the proximity to the antenna. Although about 100', > guess the RF is getting back into the box. > > Gonna set the antenna party for Friday morning. The stuff > is going up on the tower (unless somebody can see some flaw > in my logic & can suggest test)! > > Thanks again to all! > > Tim W5FN > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.75/2340 - Release Date: > 09/01/09 20:03:00 > > > > > > -- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.76/2342 - Release Date: 09/02/09 > 18:03:00 >
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna SWR = Desense?
Thanks to all... I guess it could be corrosion at the antenna, but the one that is on it now is pretty simple, & not much opportunity for corrosion. I am going to put up the 2nd DB-224 tomorrow & see what difference it makes... I don't really think it'll change much, but it will let me play with the matching unit I built & see if it works! Don - I can put the iso-tee in line, & feed the atten port into the spectrum analyzer. It should show me if the xmtr is having problems. However, the current antenna is a perfect match - no reflected power at all, so I think the xmtr 'should' be happy. The 100' may be the real problem, although everything has very well made cables, quality RG-214, N connectors, etc. Thanks, Tim W5FN --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "purvissid" wrote: > > You mentioned 100 ft hoz separation, I don't think that is enough, but don't > have a chart handy where I am now. Sid. > > > > > --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "tahrens301" wrote: > > > > Hi Jim & All, > > > > Thanks for the info & responses. > > > > I took down the 224 & found that the N connector on the > > end wasn't quite up to snuff. I am going to put a > > ham antenna on it - think it's a ringo2 or some such thing, > > just to see how an antenna with good swr will work in the > > desense arena. > > > > Then I'll put up a different 224 & see how it goes. > > > > I did see the posting about how to lower the frequency > > of a 224. Not sure I want to go that route, but might > > in the end! > > > > I built a small matching unit that I'll try out... basically > > a tuner that will go between the duplexer & feedline. > > > > One of the guys talked about using a smith chart & putting > > some stubs at the feed line which would change the matching. > > > > gee, lots of things to experiment with. That's the of > > it no? :-o > > > > Thanks again, & I'll post my progress. > > > > Tim W5FN > > > > > > --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Jim Brown wrote: > > > > > > One of the local repeater operators used an antenna at the top of a 100 > > > ft tower that got bent over during last winter storms. He put up a > > > temporary antenna at the tower base and is experiencing some really bad > > > desense with the low antenna. > > > > > > He is using a GE Mastr II base station repeater and had reasonable > > > operation with little desense on the antenna 100 ft above the equipment. > > > The antenna only 15 ft or so above the equipment now and has the bad > > > desense problem. It would appear that the antenna is flooding the > > > equipment with more RF than the shielding can handle. > > > > > > BTW, take a look at some of the previous posts on modifying a DB-224 by > > > adding a 2 inch extension to each end of each dipole to bring it down > > > into the ham band. The SWR does not go completely to 1:1, but does hit a > > > minimum in the middle of the 2 meter ham band. No change to the harness > > > was required to move the antenna frequency. > > > > > > 73 - Jim W5ZIT > > > > > > --- On Tue, 9/1/09, tahrens301 wrote: > > > > > > From: tahrens301 > > > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Antenna SWR = Desense? > > > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 2:03 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi folks, > > > > > > > > > > > > Just a bit of an update... got the 6 cavity Telewave > > > > > > duplexer tweaked up - looks like it pretty much hit > > > > > > the specs in the data sheet. > > > > > > > > > > > > With a dummy load at the 'antenna' port, I used an > > > > > > "iso-tee" to inject a signal at both the receiver > > > > > > input, and between the antenna port & the dummy > > > > > > load. With a weak signal, both places showed me that > > > > > > there was no desense. Very weak signal would hold in > > > > > > the repeater. > > > > > > > > > > > > However, putting the system on the antenna (a 150-160 mhz > > > > > > DB-224 100' horizontally & 10' vertically separated) > > > > > > through a metal building fed with 7/8 heliax, there > > > > > > seems to be no end to the desense! > > > > > > > > > > > > The wattmeter shows 30 watts forward & 3 watts reflected > > > > > > at the antenna port, if my math serves, it's less than 2:1. > > > > > > > > > > > > Can the less than 1:1 match be the culprit? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > Tim W5FN > > > > > > __ > > > > > >
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna SWR = Desense?
Hi All, And the winner is. Door # 2. Put the 2 meter vertical up on the stick at the end of the hard line, & the desense was worse! Perfect match at the feed line end. Took dummy load & put on far end of hard line & no desense. Guess it is the proximity to the antenna. Although about 100', guess the RF is getting back into the box. Gonna set the antenna party for Friday morning. The stuff is going up on the tower (unless somebody can see some flaw in my logic & can suggest test)! Thanks again to all! Tim W5FN
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna SWR = Desense?
Hi Jim & All, Thanks for the info & responses. I took down the 224 & found that the N connector on the end wasn't quite up to snuff. I am going to put a ham antenna on it - think it's a ringo2 or some such thing, just to see how an antenna with good swr will work in the desense arena. Then I'll put up a different 224 & see how it goes. I did see the posting about how to lower the frequency of a 224. Not sure I want to go that route, but might in the end! I built a small matching unit that I'll try out... basically a tuner that will go between the duplexer & feedline. One of the guys talked about using a smith chart & putting some stubs at the feed line which would change the matching. gee, lots of things to experiment with. That's the of it no? :-o Thanks again, & I'll post my progress. Tim W5FN --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Jim Brown wrote: > > One of the local repeater operators used an antenna at the top of a 100 ft > tower that got bent over during last winter storms. He put up a temporary > antenna at the tower base and is experiencing some really bad desense with > the low antenna. > > He is using a GE Mastr II base station repeater and had reasonable operation > with little desense on the antenna 100 ft above the equipment. The antenna > only 15 ft or so above the equipment now and has the bad desense problem. It > would appear that the antenna is flooding the equipment with more RF than the > shielding can handle. > > BTW, take a look at some of the previous posts on modifying a DB-224 by > adding a 2 inch extension to each end of each dipole to bring it down into > the ham band. The SWR does not go completely to 1:1, but does hit a minimum > in the middle of the 2 meter ham band. No change to the harness was required > to move the antenna frequency. > > 73 - Jim W5ZIT > > --- On Tue, 9/1/09, tahrens301 wrote: > > From: tahrens301 > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Antenna SWR = Desense? > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 2:03 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi folks, > > > > Just a bit of an update... got the 6 cavity Telewave > > duplexer tweaked up - looks like it pretty much hit > > the specs in the data sheet. > > > > With a dummy load at the 'antenna' port, I used an > > "iso-tee" to inject a signal at both the receiver > > input, and between the antenna port & the dummy > > load. With a weak signal, both places showed me that > > there was no desense. Very weak signal would hold in > > the repeater. > > > > However, putting the system on the antenna (a 150-160 mhz > > DB-224 100' horizontally & 10' vertically separated) > > through a metal building fed with 7/8 heliax, there > > seems to be no end to the desense! > > > > The wattmeter shows 30 watts forward & 3 watts reflected > > at the antenna port, if my math serves, it's less than 2:1. > > > > Can the less than 1:1 match be the culprit? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Tim W5FN > > __ >
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna SWR = Desense?
Hi Jeff, I'll try a different antenna... perhaps that's it. Horizontal isolation possibly not enough, but 'only' running 30 watts out, & the repeater is a quantar, & all leads are RG214, so didn't figure that would be it... I've seen a lot of installations with antennas pretty close to the system. Might try a matching network to tune out swr, just to see if that's it. Metal building - no HVAC or stacks, etc. Just an empty (mostly) concrete slab with a metal building on it. Milt - Seems I did put the meter at the antenna & pretty much saw the same thing. It's about what I expected, as the 224 is not the ham version - it's the 150-160 meg version. thanks, Tim W5FN --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Milt" wrote: > > While you are out at the antenna, stick the wattmeter in line and check the > foward/reflected there with the antenna and the dummy load. My guess is > that you will quickly find your problem. > > I would check the connection to the DB-224 coax as well as the connections > to each element. Also check the center connection. > > 30 foward and 3 reflected is a whole lot higher than I would accept; at > least 10% of your RF out is being reflected. > > Milt > N3LTQ > > > > - Original Message - > From: "tahrens301" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 4:02 PM > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna SWR = Desense? > > > > Hi Joe, > > > > The repeater/duplexer is in my workshop (a large metal building). > > > > The heliax goes out the window to a smaller portable building > > about 100' away (horizontally spaced). The antenna is on > > that building about 10' off the ground. > > > > > > > > Don - took the dummyload & analyzer to the end of the hard line, > > fed it into the iso-tee there. No desense is noted. Something's > > not right when the antenna gets hooked up. Maybe I should put > > up the ringo for a test. at least it's probably a bit better > > of a match. > > > > > > > > --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Joe wrote: > >> > >> You state "DB-224 100' horizontally & 10' vertically separated". I > >> don't understand what you mean by that. > >> > >> Joe > >> > >> > >> tahrens301 wrote: > >> > However, putting the system on the antenna (a 150-160 mhz > >> > DB-224 100' horizontally & 10' vertically separated) > >> > through a metal building fed with 7/8 heliax, there > >> > seems to be no end to the desense! > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.73/2338 - Release Date: 08/31/09 > 17:52:00 >
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna SWR = Desense?
Hi Joe, The repeater/duplexer is in my workshop (a large metal building). The heliax goes out the window to a smaller portable building about 100' away (horizontally spaced). The antenna is on that building about 10' off the ground. Don - took the dummyload & analyzer to the end of the hard line, fed it into the iso-tee there. No desense is noted. Something's not right when the antenna gets hooked up. Maybe I should put up the ringo for a test. at least it's probably a bit better of a match. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Joe wrote: > > You state "DB-224 100' horizontally & 10' vertically separated". I > don't understand what you mean by that. > > Joe > > > tahrens301 wrote: > > However, putting the system on the antenna (a 150-160 mhz > > DB-224 100' horizontally & 10' vertically separated) > > through a metal building fed with 7/8 heliax, there > > seems to be no end to the desense! > > > > >
[Repeater-Builder] Antenna SWR = Desense?
Hi folks, Just a bit of an update... got the 6 cavity Telewave duplexer tweaked up - looks like it pretty much hit the specs in the data sheet. With a dummy load at the 'antenna' port, I used an "iso-tee" to inject a signal at both the receiver input, and between the antenna port & the dummy load. With a weak signal, both places showed me that there was no desense. Very weak signal would hold in the repeater. However, putting the system on the antenna (a 150-160 mhz DB-224 100' horizontally & 10' vertically separated) through a metal building fed with 7/8 heliax, there seems to be no end to the desense! The wattmeter shows 30 watts forward & 3 watts reflected at the antenna port, if my math serves, it's less than 2:1. Can the less than 1:1 match be the culprit? Thanks, Tim W5FN
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Low Power VHF Repeater - Solar
Hi Mark, I haven't looked into the licensing issues yet - I believe that there is some kind of Agro/ranch license, but not sure. GMRS might be an alternative. Was starting with the hardware to give them some idea about how it will hit their bottom line. Tim --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" wrote: > > Tim, > > Is this a business band thing they are looking at, or can a GMRS repeater be > a solution? > > Mark - N9WYS > > -Original Message- > From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tahrens301 > Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:42 AM > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Low Power VHF Repeater - Solar > > A friend of mine who is the foreman for a large > ranch asked me about providing radio coverage. > > As there are a couple of hills (2000' AGL) around the > ranch, coverage in some places would be spotty, so a > repeater on one of the hills would be the best solution. > > However, there is no power available, so a solar/wind > power solution would be necessary. (we get a lot of sun > here!) > > I've done a couple of solar projects, but this needs to > be pretty much commercial quality, so I was wondering > if there is a commercial repeater available that would > be a good candidate for solar power. > > I figure the RF power out could be 5 watts or less and > still give good coverage throughout the ranch. > > Thanks, > > Tim > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.67/2326 - Release Date: 08/25/09 > 18:07:00 >
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Low Power VHF Repeater - Solar
Mac - the guys often go out on the 4 legged mobile units, & trying to plug in for +12v is a bit tough! :-0 Thanks Stan, yeah, that's why I was looking for a commercial unit that would be battery friendly. Will probably take some additional mods, but that's ok. Will continue to look. Thanks, Tim --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "tahrens301" wrote: > > Hi Mac, > > Thanks for the reply. > > I thought about low band, but they want to use a number > of handhelds, & I've never been much impressed about > the antenna selections on low band handhelds. > > That has been a couple of years tho, perhaps things have > changed some. > > Tim > > > --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Mac McCullough" wrote: > > > > go with Lo band, way good coverage, lo band maratracs are in abundant > > supply, 50.00 or less, no repeater to mess with .. lo band would work > > well. ymmv mac/mc w5mc > > - Original Message - > > From: tahrens301 > > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:42 AM > > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Low Power VHF Repeater - Solar > > > > > > A friend of mine who is the foreman for a large > > ranch asked me about providing radio coverage. > > > > As there are a couple of hills (2000' AGL) around the > > ranch, coverage in some places would be spotty, so a > > repeater on one of the hills would be the best solution. > > > > However, there is no power available, so a solar/wind > > power solution would be necessary. (we get a lot of sun > > here!) > > > > I've done a couple of solar projects, but this needs to > > be pretty much commercial quality, so I was wondering > > if there is a commercial repeater available that would > > be a good candidate for solar power. > > > > I figure the RF power out could be 5 watts or less and > > still give good coverage throughout the ranch. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Tim > > >
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Low Power VHF Repeater - Solar
Hi Mac, Thanks for the reply. I thought about low band, but they want to use a number of handhelds, & I've never been much impressed about the antenna selections on low band handhelds. That has been a couple of years tho, perhaps things have changed some. Tim --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Mac McCullough" wrote: > > go with Lo band, way good coverage, lo band maratracs are in abundant > supply, 50.00 or less, no repeater to mess with .. lo band would work well. > ymmv mac/mc w5mc > - Original Message - > From: tahrens301 > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:42 AM > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Low Power VHF Repeater - Solar > > > A friend of mine who is the foreman for a large > ranch asked me about providing radio coverage. > > As there are a couple of hills (2000' AGL) around the > ranch, coverage in some places would be spotty, so a > repeater on one of the hills would be the best solution. > > However, there is no power available, so a solar/wind > power solution would be necessary. (we get a lot of sun > here!) > > I've done a couple of solar projects, but this needs to > be pretty much commercial quality, so I was wondering > if there is a commercial repeater available that would > be a good candidate for solar power. > > I figure the RF power out could be 5 watts or less and > still give good coverage throughout the ranch. > > Thanks, > > Tim >
[Repeater-Builder] Low Power VHF Repeater - Solar
A friend of mine who is the foreman for a large ranch asked me about providing radio coverage. As there are a couple of hills (2000' AGL) around the ranch, coverage in some places would be spotty, so a repeater on one of the hills would be the best solution. However, there is no power available, so a solar/wind power solution would be necessary. (we get a lot of sun here!) I've done a couple of solar projects, but this needs to be pretty much commercial quality, so I was wondering if there is a commercial repeater available that would be a good candidate for solar power. I figure the RF power out could be 5 watts or less and still give good coverage throughout the ranch. Thanks, Tim
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Molded coil source
If you aren't looking for a lot of them, coilcraft has always been pretty good about doing samples. All done on their web site. Tim W5FN --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "cruizzer77" wrote: > > Does anyone know a source for shielded molded coils in 10mm size? > > Mouser don't have them any more and Coilcraft only sell directly and are so > damn ham unfriendly that I don't want to buy from them if there's any other > possibility. > > Is there a retailer anywhere who sells them? > > Regards > Martin >
[Repeater-Builder] Re: DB-4050WB Duplexer
Hi Richard, Thanks for the info. This is a new installation, and I do have some reflected power. That will be taken care of very soon. Fortunately, all the repeater components are still here at the house. Running the 'real' heliax to the DB-224 on a pole, so it's pretty close to what it'll be like on the hill. Thanks again, Tim W5FN --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Richard Fletcher wrote: > > Hi Tim, > > The most common cause for "desense" is connections and not actually the > duplexer. Especially if there was no "desense" prior. First I would check the > link from the duplexer to the hard-line (If this fits into your site > configuration) put a meter right there where the hard-line comes into the > building. If you get any reflected power, then your desense problem is most > likely at the antenna or from the meter and up the cable. If you think there > is a power reduction there, well that jumper to the hard-line is bad. If that > looks good, then check all the connections on the station (before you start > turning the screws). Believe me, I have had to re-tune many a duplexer that > someone turned the screws on because of "desense" that was a cabling issue > and not the duplexer. > God luck on the adventure.. > > BR > -Richard > > > > > > From: tahrens301 > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:43:30 PM > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] DB-4050WB Duplexer > > > Hi Folks, > > I was checking e-bay for duplexers last night, and came across a > DB-4050 that the user said was a pass/reject duplexer. > > It looks almost identical to one that has been giving me some desense > issues, but had a marking of SP-1894. > > The cabling looks a bit different, but functionally equivalent. > > Has anybody used one of these, and is it really a pass/reject, or just > a group of notch cavities? I've seen the specs on the data page here, > but it only gives the specs & doesn't call it anything specifically. > > I don't plan on bidding on it, as I have a 6 cavity BpBr Wacom coming > from a friend, but after all of the pain I've had with the DB prod > box, was just curious. > > Thanks! > > Tim W5FN >
[Repeater-Builder] Re: HP 8924C question
Hey Joe, Is that you from Mot? Tim Ahrens W5FN (excuse off topic) --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Joe Ciarcia wrote: > > Anyone have a HP 8924C that is being used as a service monitor > for land mobile/ repeater applications? Will it send an analog CTCSS > tone along with a 1 KHZ audio tone? > Thanks, Joe >
[Repeater-Builder] DB-4050WB Duplexer
Hi Folks, I was checking e-bay for duplexers last night, and came across a DB-4050 that the user said was a pass/reject duplexer. It looks almost identical to one that has been giving me some desense issues, but had a marking of SP-1894. The cabling looks a bit different, but functionally equivalent. Has anybody used one of these, and is it really a pass/reject, or just a group of notch cavities? I've seen the specs on the data page here, but it only gives the specs & doesn't call it anything specifically. I don't plan on bidding on it, as I have a 6 cavity BpBr Wacom coming from a friend, but after all of the pain I've had with the DB prod box, was just curious. Thanks! Tim W5FN
[Repeater-Builder] Re: DB-224 Matching
Hi Jim, thanks for the words on corrosion, and Laryn... aah, the voice of experience! No holes will be drilled!! Thanks to all. I believe that will be the easiest way to make it work. Tim W5FN --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "larynl2" wrote: > > Perhaps > > drilling a hole through the original element for > > connection might be better. > > > Uh, I wouldn't drill holes in elements. I did drill small holes in each of > four elements years ago and within a year all four elements had cracked right > where I drilled. > > Laryn K8TVZ >
[Repeater-Builder] Re: mdc1200 decoding help
Here is the original response & the link. Good luck!! Tim agrimm0034 wrote: > Hi. I'm looking to build a MDC1200 decoder for my repeater to monitor the > activity. Anyone else tried to construct one or can help me out? Thanks > > You may be interested to know about a C library I wrote. See http://www.matthew.at/mdc/ Requires the ability to capture audio samples and feed them to the library. It is also not that difficult to port this to run on a PIC microcontroller using a single bit for audio input. Matthew Kaufman --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "agrimm0034" wrote: > > If you could dig up that email, that would be great. You can either repost on > here or email that directly to me. Thanks > > > --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "tahrens301" wrote: > > > > One of the guys here had written some C code that > > runs on a PC that you could use.. think you plug > > the RX audio into the sound card. If you want, > > I can dig up the e-mail. I think I saved it. > > > > A hardware solution would be to get one of the Motorola > > desktop MDC units. They have a LED display on it. > > Don't know the model #, but could probably find on > > e-bay. > > > > Tim > > > > > > --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "agrimm0034" wrote: > > > > > > I posted a similiar topic a while back but I can't remember what exactly > > > some advise was gave. I need to find a mdc1200 decoder to either build or > > > relativly cheap such as on ebay. I have a repeater that uses several > > > Motorola radio's using MDC to ID there self. I've searched and found a > > > couple made by Control Signal and found out there outrageous. Is there > > > any off brand's or ebay searches I could do to help me out??? Thanks > > > > > >
[Repeater-Builder] Re: mdc1200 decoding help
One of the guys here had written some C code that runs on a PC that you could use.. think you plug the RX audio into the sound card. If you want, I can dig up the e-mail. I think I saved it. A hardware solution would be to get one of the Motorola desktop MDC units. They have a LED display on it. Don't know the model #, but could probably find on e-bay. Tim --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "agrimm0034" wrote: > > I posted a similiar topic a while back but I can't remember what exactly some > advise was gave. I need to find a mdc1200 decoder to either build or > relativly cheap such as on ebay. I have a repeater that uses several Motorola > radio's using MDC to ID there self. I've searched and found a couple made by > Control Signal and found out there outrageous. Is there any off brand's or > ebay searches I could do to help me out??? Thanks >
[Repeater-Builder] Re: DB-224 Matching
Hi Jim, That's what I was looking for! Do you have any oxidation/connection issues where the tubing is wrapped around & screwed together? Perhaps drilling a hole through the original element for connection might be better. Just wondering. Thanks for the tip!! Tim W5FN --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Jim Brown wrote: > > I have modified several of the 155 mHz center frequency DB-224 antennas to > the ham band. I found that it takes a 2 inch extension to each end of each > dipole to move them down. My mod was done empirically by taking a single > dipole and hooking it to an analyzer and finding the original center > frequency to be ~ 155 mHz. With the 2 inch extension added to each end, the > center frequency moved down to 146 mHz. I did not have to modify the harness. > > I make the extension out of a scrapped TV antenna with rolled tubing > elements. I flatten the tubing so that it can be wrapped around the dipole > at the center point of each end and put a single screw through the wrapped > flat portion of the TV tubing to clamp it to the dipole. When all assembled, > I measure the distance to the end of the tubing from the 224 dipole and cut > the extension to 2 inches. This moves the center frequency of the completed > DB-224 mod down to 146 mHz from 155 mHz. > > 73 - Jim W5ZIT > > --- On Wed, 8/19/09, tahrens301 wrote: > > From: tahrens301 > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] DB-224 Matching > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, August 19, 2009, 8:40 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > In my quest to get rid of desense with > > the Quantar, someone mentioned that having > > the 'wrong' antenna could make the desense > > worse. > > > > I've got a DB-224 - not the 'ham' version, > > but the 150-160 MHz version, and there is > > a bit of a mismatch. > > > > Has anyone ever had any desense that they > > could attribute to less than perfect matching? > > (I'm not talking about a gross problem, like > > one of the elements broken, etc) > > > > Has anyone built a 'tuner' for that version > > of the 224, so that the transmitter/ duplexer > > pair would see a better SWR? > > > > If this thing ever gets up, it's gonna be > > perfect! :-) > > > > Thanks, > > > > Tim W5FN >
[Repeater-Builder] Re: DB-224 Matching
Hi Jim, I have used a directional coupler to get a received signal into the system, but have too many adapters on it to make it work right! The repeater is a Motorola Quantar, so there shouldn't be any problem in the split size. I can have one antenna on the tower, but not two, so I gotta make it work! Thanks, Tim W5FN --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, James Lee wrote: > > Have you checked the repeater for desense without the antenna installed? As > in most commercial repeaters they are usually designed for larger spacing > than 600 kHz. Check it without the antenna and all open ports terminated with > a 50 ohm termination. Then add the antenna and look at the difference. I have > had problems where I had to split the transmit and receive to two different > antennas and split the duplexers accordingly. > > I also chased this down once to a cheap right angle connector, the > manufacturer used a spring to make the turn and it made a neat detector!..Jim >
[Repeater-Builder] Re: DB-224 Matching
Hi Norm, It's 147.10/70, so at least it's up high in the band. I thought about adding some metal to the loops, but figured I'd ask around here to see if it's been done before. Thanks, Tim --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "NORM KNAPP" wrote: > > What frequency pair in 2m do you have? Have you thought about putting ss > bollts through the bottoms and tops of the loops to bring the db-224a down in > frequency? > 73 de N5NPO > Norm > > - Original Message - > From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed Aug 19 08:40:31 2009 > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] DB-224 Matching > > > > In my quest to get rid of desense with > the Quantar, someone mentioned that having > the 'wrong' antenna could make the desense > worse. > > I've got a DB-224 - not the 'ham' version, > but the 150-160 MHz version, and there is > a bit of a mismatch. > > Has anyone ever had any desense that they > could attribute to less than perfect matching? > (I'm not talking about a gross problem, like > one of the elements broken, etc) > > Has anyone built a 'tuner' for that version > of the 224, so that the transmitter/duplexer > pair would see a better SWR? > > If this thing ever gets up, it's gonna be > perfect! :-) > > Thanks, > > Tim W5FN >
[Repeater-Builder] DB-224 Matching
In my quest to get rid of desense with the Quantar, someone mentioned that having the 'wrong' antenna could make the desense worse. I've got a DB-224 - not the 'ham' version, but the 150-160 MHz version, and there is a bit of a mismatch. Has anyone ever had any desense that they could attribute to less than perfect matching? (I'm not talking about a gross problem, like one of the elements broken, etc) Has anyone built a 'tuner' for that version of the 224, so that the transmitter/duplexer pair would see a better SWR? If this thing ever gets up, it's gonna be perfect! :-) Thanks, Tim W5FN
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Notch Cavities + 600KHz Repeater = Work?
- Hi DCflux, Tried the bandpass + notches & didn't change much. On changing to the BpBr, any idea how much capacitance is needed? I have a fistfull of those Johanson caps. Also, a buddy of mine has a Sinclair Q202G that I'm thinking about also. Will pick it up tomorrow & see if it is any better. Thanks, Tim W5FN > If that doesn't work you might try converting them to BpBr. This would > be done by adding a very high quality piston trimmer such as a > johansen cap to the coupling loop, in series with the grounded end. Or > a BNC jack going to a piece of coax that can be trimmed to form a > gimmic capacitor. > > I like to salvage the capacitor from surplus Mastr 2 ICOMs that are > EC. But those have to be soldered in and I'm not sure what material DB > cans use on the rotatable whosis. > > The inner cavity jumpers should be 1/4 wavelength electrically, so you > have to calculate velocity factor of your cables. >
[Repeater-Builder] Re: 2M Vertical Dipoles
Hi Joe, Guess we are all telling our age. I had WR1AIK in 1975/76. Remember it took a note to my congressman to get the license assigned - seemed to take forever! I was in the AF in Northern Maine at the time. cu Tim W5FN --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Joe wrote: > > Jim Brown wrote: > > > > This plot was submitted to the FCC to get repeater license WR5ADU and > > WR5ADV back in the '70s when antenna patterns for a repeater had to be > > submitted. > > > Wow Jim, your an old geezer! Me too. I remember plotting the antenna > pattern for a ground plane back in the early 70's for a repeater > application. Silly, but it had to be done to meet the requirements. We > got the call WR1ABR. > > 73, Joe, K1ike >
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Notch Cavities + 600KHz Repeater = Work?
Hi Bob, I was pretty curious about it as well, especially in the 'early days' of this project. Nobody seemed to know much about the stubs. If you are looking at the spec. analyzer & trk gen, you see the notch. The left side goes down deep, then comes up on the right side of the notch. But, without the stubs, the right side doesn't come up as fast as the left side went down, hence more insertion loss. With the stubs, they got pulled right up. As far as your earlier question, the notches come up to the 0dB point well before the other frequency. They seem to be pretty tight. I guess I'm still looking for an answer to the original question. Do the notch cavities work @600khz spacing? I've always had the BpBr duplexers for ham stuff, & I guess I've gotten a bit spoiled working with 4 & 5mHz splits! Thanks, Tim W5FN --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, n...@... wrote: > > At 8/10/2009 10:21, you wrote: > >Hi Dcflu7x, > > > >It's a DB products SP-1894. Can't get any info on it from > >anywhere. > > > >Each of the 8 cans have the approx dimensions of 5" x 21". > >A single screw-type shaft in the center, and one SO-239 > >sticking out of the top of the can. No variable caps, or > >anything else on the cans. Each can has an RG-9 jumper > >between each 'T'. The male portion of the 'T' screws down > >into the can. > > > >The 4 cans on the 147.7 side are strictly 4 cans in series. > >The 4 cans on the 147.1 side also have an additional 'T' > >between cans, and from that dangles a short stub. > > This sounds like a modified DB-4050. I don't understand why one side of > the duplexer would have additional Ts. > > The specs on the DB-4050 are: notches -95 dB, passes -2.2 dB. Sounds close > to what you're getting. > > > >The stubs actually pull up the high side of the notch. Without > >them, the cans exhibit high loss at 600khz above the notch. > >With them, the total loss is about 2 - 2.5dB. > > Bob NO6B >
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Notch Cavities + 600KHz Repeater = Work?
Hi Ralph, No, they were 10" as came from the factory for 166 mhz, so it didn't look like they were cut for anything in particular. DCflux - I started to do what you suggested... sounded like something else to try. Took the link out of the last can & the loop wasn't soldered to the PL259 connection. Only a solder blob on the end of the pin. I could push on the link & it would freely move on the pin. NOT GOOD! Think I'll pull them all out & have a look - I found one like this earlier in the other side. Guess it was built on a Monday! haha Thanks, Tim
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Notch Cavities + 600KHz Repeater = Work?
Hi Dcflu7x, It's a DB products SP-1894. Can't get any info on it from anywhere. Each of the 8 cans have the approx dimensions of 5" x 21". A single screw-type shaft in the center, and one SO-239 sticking out of the top of the can. No variable caps, or anything else on the cans. Each can has an RG-9 jumper between each 'T'. The male portion of the 'T' screws down into the can. The 4 cans on the 147.7 side are strictly 4 cans in series. The 4 cans on the 147.1 side also have an additional 'T' between cans, and from that dangles a short stub. The stubs actually pull up the high side of the notch. Without them, the cans exhibit high loss at 600khz above the notch. With them, the total loss is about 2 - 2.5dB. The duplexer was originally in the 166 range, then pulled down to the 154 range, which was what they were set for when I got them. Tuning: First I used the spectrum analyzer with tracking generator to move each notch on top of each other at the desired frequency. Next, I used my service monitor to generate a +10dBm signal which I fed through each set of 4 cans. On the opposite side, I hooked up the spectrum analyzer & tuned out the signal. It told me it was between -92 & -95 dB on each set of cans. I also put a 50 ohm load on the port that I was not testing. I think they are tweaked as good as they can be. Thanks, Tim W5FN --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, DCFluX wrote: > > Can you tell us more about the model of your duplexer? > > When you say notch is it: > > A. Flat pack mobile style notch only duplexer with a 3MHz minimum split. > B. Wacom BpBr cavites such as WP-639. > C. Motorola style notch only small cans. > > Also if you have a VHF circulator you can replace the tee between the > 2 sides of the duplexer and antenna for an additional 20dB of > isolation. > > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 9:07 AM, tahrens301 wrote: > > Was just curious as to if folks have > > gotten Notch cavities to work ok with a 600khz > > split. Have 4 in Rx leg & 4 in TX leg. According > > to the analyzer, each bank has a >90dB notch. > > Double shielded cable throughout (RG-9). > > > > Just about pulled all my hair out over the last > > couple of weeks, and still have desense issues. > > Even tried another repeater, just to see if it > > was still there, & yep it is. (was actually a > > bit worse than the Quantar, but it uses cheesy > > cables for RX (TKR-720)). > > > > Did find something interesting inside the Quantar > > tho, the RX cable that screws into the RX filter > > housing had a problem. They use a crimped Mini-UHF, > > and the section that got crimped actually rotated > > freely around the piece that has the center conductor > > in it. Nice rotatable cable, but don't think that > > it was intended to do that! Soldered the two together. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Tim W5FN > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >
[Repeater-Builder] Notch Cavities + 600KHz Repeater = Work?
Was just curious as to if folks have gotten Notch cavities to work ok with a 600khz split. Have 4 in Rx leg & 4 in TX leg. According to the analyzer, each bank has a >90dB notch. Double shielded cable throughout (RG-9). Just about pulled all my hair out over the last couple of weeks, and still have desense issues. Even tried another repeater, just to see if it was still there, & yep it is. (was actually a bit worse than the Quantar, but it uses cheesy cables for RX (TKR-720)). Did find something interesting inside the Quantar tho, the RX cable that screws into the RX filter housing had a problem. They use a crimped Mini-UHF, and the section that got crimped actually rotated freely around the piece that has the center conductor in it. Nice rotatable cable, but don't think that it was intended to do that! Soldered the two together. Thanks, Tim W5FN
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Desense with Notch-type duplexers - Questions
Hmmm, Well, I did the signal injection into the receiver's port, as opposed to at the dummy load, and indeed, I do have desense when using the dummy load. I guess that points back to the cans & how well they are performing (or not)!
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Desense with Notch-type duplexers - Questions
I checked it into a dummy load (with one of those celwave signal insertion boxes), and didn't see any signs of desense. A friend of mine who used to work for Mot said that he had a desense problem with a VHF Quantar - Mot sent out some kind of memo that said you had to use some special kind of duplexer. But figured I'd ask around here. Thanks, Tim --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, DCFluX wrote: > > Yeah, I understand VHF quantars or supseptable to something called > 'quantar howl' which is digitally delayed desense. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRfvh0UTFHw > > The hypnotoad also has the ability to make the same sound > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiVYjRbZMe0 > > > I've never owned one so I cant put too many conclusions together about > what causes it. > > I saw the back of one at a ham fest and noticed the wire ties and > thought that was the dumbest thing I've seen Motorola do. > > My next guess could be that the switch mode power supply runs at > 600kHz. anyone got any schematics? > > Also check if you have desense into a dummy load, could be another > 600kHz noise source close to your antenna. > > On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 2:11 PM, tahrens301 wrote: > > Hi Dcflux, > > > > Yeah, I did that 1st. Actually, they now come out of the > > front of the box & are as far apart as I can get them. > > > > Tim > > > > > > --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, DCFluX wrote: > >> > >> Cut the wire tied together TX and RX cables on the back of the quantar > >> and seperate them as far as possible. > >> > >> On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 1:43 PM, tahrens301 wrote: > >> > Hi Folks, > >> > > >> > Guess it's a good thing the antenna party didn't happen yet. > >> > > >> > Put the DB-224 up on a pole here attached to a portable building. > >> > > >> > Ran the 7/8" heliax from the antenna into my garage - about 100'. > >> > > >> > With a signal source from my monitor, the repeater would chop in > >> > and out. Ugh-desense. > >> > > >> > I am using an old DBproducts 8 cavity notch-type duplexer. 4 on the > >> > receive, & 4 on the transmit. The transmit side also has stubs. > >> > (see old thread). > >> > > >> > First, I used my spectrum analyzer & sweep gen, and got what I > >> > thought were pretty good notches in the right places (depending > >> > if I was working on the xmit or rx side. According to the > >> > analyzer, the notch was about 70dB below the high point. However, > >> > I think that it was seeing the floor of the analyzer, not the real > >> > notch. > >> > > >> > Then, I hooked up a signal generator on one side, and a receiver > >> > on the other side, and tweaked a bit more for the least signal. > >> > > >> > All looked pretty good with definite notches, but it's obvious > >> > there's desense. > >> > > >> > All cables are double shielded. > >> > > >> > The system is 147.10/70, running about 60 watts out of the > >> > Quantar. Even running with battery-backup (20 watts), there's > >> > still some desense. > >> > > >> > Could it be that these cans are just not enough, or am I doing > >> > something wrong. > >> > > >> > Thanks! > >> > > >> > Tim > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Desense with Notch-type duplexers - Questions
Hi Dcflux, Yeah, I did that 1st. Actually, they now come out of the front of the box & are as far apart as I can get them. Tim --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, DCFluX wrote: > > Cut the wire tied together TX and RX cables on the back of the quantar > and seperate them as far as possible. > > On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 1:43 PM, tahrens301 wrote: > > Hi Folks, > > > > Guess it's a good thing the antenna party didn't happen yet. > > > > Put the DB-224 up on a pole here attached to a portable building. > > > > Ran the 7/8" heliax from the antenna into my garage - about 100'. > > > > With a signal source from my monitor, the repeater would chop in > > and out. Ugh-desense. > > > > I am using an old DBproducts 8 cavity notch-type duplexer. 4 on the > > receive, & 4 on the transmit. The transmit side also has stubs. > > (see old thread). > > > > First, I used my spectrum analyzer & sweep gen, and got what I > > thought were pretty good notches in the right places (depending > > if I was working on the xmit or rx side. According to the > > analyzer, the notch was about 70dB below the high point. However, > > I think that it was seeing the floor of the analyzer, not the real > > notch. > > > > Then, I hooked up a signal generator on one side, and a receiver > > on the other side, and tweaked a bit more for the least signal. > > > > All looked pretty good with definite notches, but it's obvious > > there's desense. > > > > All cables are double shielded. > > > > The system is 147.10/70, running about 60 watts out of the > > Quantar. Even running with battery-backup (20 watts), there's > > still some desense. > > > > Could it be that these cans are just not enough, or am I doing > > something wrong. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Tim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >
