Re: [Repeater-Builder] Caution on Bomar Crystals
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I stand corrected. I just confirmed this by calling Bomar. They do have a $60.00 minumum, but that includes the shipping so 2 channel elements in most cases will meet the minimum. Steve WA6ZFT Their Land Mobile pricing can be seen here: http://www.bomarcrystal.com/home3.html They make crystals for $10 each. Unless it has recently been changed, BOMAR charges a $50 minimum, which isn't stated on their website, and if asked about can be forgone. YMMV, Kevin Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Caution on Bomar Crystals
At 5/11/2005 03:19 PM, you wrote: Expensive: Mototola Mitrek recrystal and tempco at ICM: $50.00/element. Bomar is $35.00. West is appx. $32.00. There was a debate regarding West Crystal's alleged temperature compensation a week or two ago on here. Check the archives - I forget the conclusion, if any. Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Caution on Bomar Crystals
Expensive: Mototola Mitrek recrystal and tempco at ICM: $50.00/element. Bomar is $35.00. West is appx. $32.00. There was a debate regarding West Crystal's alleged "temperature compensation" a week or two ago on here. Check the archives - I forget the conclusion, if any. Bob NO6B The figures above that Steve-WA6ZFT gave are incorrect. Bomar charges $25 to re-crystal and TC "your" element, not $35 YMMV, but in a direct conversation with a person claiming to be an engineer at West, I wasn't convinced that they actually TC the crystal in the element/ICOM. Only after a VERY lengthy discussion and proving that I knew the difference between TC'ing and "netting" did he admit to only changing the parallel capacitor to achieve "on frequency" with the trimmer centered. His thought was this measure was "compensating" the element. After that, I was uncertain that West Crystal actually knew what proper ICOM or Channel Element TC'ing really was. I was also not convinced that they check the modulation linearity or characteristics when redoing a FM TX element, something that I know ICM and Bomar does. Does West Crystal do this, I don't know, and I'm not going to call yet again to find out. I was very discouraged from talking to them the first time, as I think they were trying to buffalo me into thinking I was getting something I'm convinced they weren't giving. In crystals and crystal companies, you get what you pay for Again, YMMV, and likely will. Kevin Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Caution on Bomar Crystals
Interesting. When I sent a pair of GE ECs in to Bomar recently, they quoted me $35 a piece. When I got the invoice, they charged me $25 for one, and $35 for the other. - Original Message - Expensive: Mototola Mitrek recrystal and tempco at ICM: $50.00/element. Bomar is $35.00. West is appx. $32.00. The figures above that Steve-WA6ZFT gave are incorrect. Bomar charges $25 to re-crystal and TC "your" element, not $35Kevin Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Caution on Bomar Crystals
Paul Holm wrote: Interesting. When I sent a pair of GE ECs in to Bomar recently, they quoted me $35 a piece. When I got the invoice, they charged me $25 for one, and $35 for the other. Was one a FM TX ICOM? Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Caution on Bomar Crystals
I don't think so. RX EC PL19A129393G7TX EC PL19A129393G17 - Original Message - From: Kevin Custer Interesting. When I sent a pair of GE ECs in to Bomar recently, they quoted me $35 a piece. When I got the invoice, they charged me $25 for one, and $35 for the other.Was one a FM TX ICOM? Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Caution on Bomar Crystals
I stand corrected. I just confirmed this by calling Bomar. Some TCXO's will be more, but most are $25.00 including the crystal. They do have a $60.00 minumum, but that includes the shipping so 2 channel elements in most cases will meet the minimum. Steve WA6ZFT From: Kevin Custer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2005/05/12 Thu PM 02:30:17 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Caution on Bomar Crystals Expensive: Mototola Mitrek recrystal and tempco at ICM: $50.00/element. Bomar is $35.00. West is appx. $32.00. There was a debate regarding West Crystal's alleged temperature compensation a week or two ago on here. Check the archives - I forget the conclusion, if any. Bob NO6B The figures above that Steve-WA6ZFT gave are incorrect. Bomar charges $25 to re-crystal and TC your element, not $35 YMMV, but in a direct conversation with a person claiming to be an engineer at West, I wasn't convinced that they actually TC the crystal in the element/ICOM. Only after a VERY lengthy discussion and proving that I knew the difference between TC'ing and netting did he admit to only changing the parallel capacitor to achieve on frequency with the trimmer centered. His thought was this measure was compensating the element. After that, I was uncertain that West Crystal actually knew what proper ICOM or Channel Element TC'ing really was. I was also not convinced that they check the modulation linearity or characteristics when redoing a FM TX element, something that I know ICM and Bomar does. Does West Crystal do this, I don't know, and I'm not going to call yet again to find out. I was very discouraged from talking to them the first time, as I think they were trying to buffalo me into thinking I was getting something I'm convinced they weren't giving. In crystals and crystal companies, you get what you pay for Again, YMMV, and likely will. Kevin Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Caution on Bomar Crystals
This brings up an interesting memory, I worked at a nationwide paging company and was moved back into repair manager after the new manager guy was fired. (He got caughtlistening in on a private conversation with a Telco buttset between a tech and the President of the company)I started the shop and then they hired anew guy to release me for more important assignment. After a couple months the reliability of the repaired pagers wentfrom 2to 3 %to a whopping 97%dead when they were returned to the field! The guy was a real winner! After I got settled back in my old office about 35 miles closer to my house I started talking to the techs and following what this new guy had them doing. Under his instruction they were to monitor the analog audio out of the pager with an oscilloscope and "tune" the 1st oscillator until the scope triggered! I asked how and where do they know where to set the trigger to get the frequency correct? They all said they did not know, it's just way the shop manager said it had to be done! I found the pagers were way off frequency.What I did is come up with a RF sniffer and the calculations of each model of pager's injection frequency so they could read the injection frequency out on the service monitor. I personally don't like the injection method of setting the frequency but it was the most simple way for the techs we had at the time. This one change took the failure rate from 97% to 2 to 3% in two weeks, a complete reversal! My job was done. Paul -Original Message-From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Kevin CusterSent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 1:30 PMTo: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Caution on Bomar Crystals Expensive: Mototola Mitrek recrystal and tempco at ICM: $50.00/element. Bomar is $35.00. West is appx. $32.00. There was a debate regarding West Crystal's alleged "temperature compensation" a week or two ago on here. Check the archives - I forget the conclusion, if any. Bob NO6BThe figures above that Steve-WA6ZFT gave are incorrect. Bomar charges $25 to re-crystal and TC "your" element, not $35YMMV, but in a direct conversation with a person claiming to be an engineer at West, I wasn't convinced that they actually TC the crystal in the element/ICOM. Only after a VERY lengthy discussion and proving that I knew the difference between TC'ing and "netting" did he admit to only changing the parallel capacitor to achieve "on frequency" with the trimmer centered. His thought was this measure was "compensating" the element. After that, I was uncertain that West Crystal actually knew what proper ICOM or Channel Element TC'ing really was.I was also not convinced that they check the modulation linearity or characteristics when redoing a FM TX element, something that I know ICM and Bomar does. Does West Crystal do this, I don't know, and I'm not going to call yet again to find out. I was very discouraged from talking to them the first time, as I think they were trying to buffalo me into thinking I was getting something I'm convinced they weren't giving.In crystals and crystal companies, you get what you pay forAgain, YMMV, and likely will.Kevin Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Caution on Bomar Crystals
I've used several companies over the past 20+ years, and I've really only ever found one that I consider garbage. Some people like Jan, however. ;- Bomar was the supplier to GE for several years. That's where they bought all their crystals for the MPI (as well as several other models, I'm sure). I've never tried West, although I think I will be placing an order with them soon. Good, inexpensive crystals are hard to come by, but I can't say in my experience the Ferrari of crystals (that would be ICM) perform ANY better than the Chevys out there. Just stay away from the Yugo mentioned above. I have repeaters that have been on the air decades, and some have gone at least one decade without needing a frequency tweak. I'm sure at least some of those are using Bomar crystals. Others are using Sentry, Savoy, ICM, and Bomar (and soon West). I likely forgot someone, too. But none are using that 'Yugo' manufacturer. I've received more bad crystals from there than good ones! As always, YMMV. Joe M. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Caution on Bomar Crystals
Steve, Guess I did not see that post about how I can't afford to put a repeater on the air! Funny, I have three on my 500 foot tower now and none of the repeaters have international crystals in them, guess they are non-existent, huh! Like I said, I am working on 3 900 MHz, a 10 meter, a 6 meter and a 220 MHz repeater for the tower. Only two of the 900 MHz are for my tower though, the other is going to a friends in Duncanville, Texas. I have had very good luck with all of the crystals I bought from Standard and other companies up until I bought some from MH-Electronics on a recommendation from a friend. I will not go back there but I have no problem with other companies like Bomar. The difference in the price is sizable when you consider the number of crystals I am buying. The real expense comes when I buy the controllers so guess what I am saying is this guy really does not know what he's talking about. Paul WB5IDM -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Steve Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 10:40 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Caution on Bomar Crystals Why is it a common theme for some in this group make a statement such as this?: If you cannot afford International, you cannot afford to put a repeater on the air. What a fine piece if discouragement this is for the people just learning to put a repeater together. Ham radio is all about experimenting to see what you can get away with. It is not a commercial endeavour where crystals have to meet 2.5ppm! If the crystals don't perform to your expectations from one vendor, try someone else. Steve WA6ZFT Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Caution on Bomar Crystals
Yep. The other reason not to buy expensive crystals is if you are trying to find a clear channel for your repeater to operate on. In southern California, the 70cm coordinating body is pretty close to ineffectual. If you have to change frequencies 2-3 times to resolve interference issues it can get mighty expensive if you use the best supplier. As for controllers, I use app_rpt since I'm one of the developers. See www.zapatatelephony.org/app_rpt.html Steve WA6ZFT On Wednesday 11 May 2005 06:11, Paul Finch wrote: Steve, Guess I did not see that post about how I can't afford to put a repeater on the air! Funny, I have three on my 500 foot tower now and none of the repeaters have international crystals in them, guess they are non-existent, huh! Like I said, I am working on 3 900 MHz, a 10 meter, a 6 meter and a 220 MHz repeater for the tower. Only two of the 900 MHz are for my tower though, the other is going to a friends in Duncanville, Texas. I have had very good luck with all of the crystals I bought from Standard and other companies up until I bought some from MH-Electronics on a recommendation from a friend. I will not go back there but I have no problem with other companies like Bomar. The difference in the price is sizable when you consider the number of crystals I am buying. The real expense comes when I buy the controllers so guess what I am saying is this guy really does not know what he's talking about. Paul WB5IDM -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Steve Rodgers Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 10:40 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Caution on Bomar Crystals Why is it a common theme for some in this group make a statement such as this?: If you cannot afford International, you cannot afford to put a repeater on the air. What a fine piece if discouragement this is for the people just learning to put a repeater together. Ham radio is all about experimenting to see what you can get away with. It is not a commercial endeavour where crystals have to meet 2.5ppm! If the crystals don't perform to your expectations from one vendor, try someone else. Steve WA6ZFT Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Caution on Bomar Crystals
At 5/10/2005 08:40 PM, you wrote: Why is it a common theme for some in this group make a statement such as this?: If you cannot afford International, you cannot afford to put a repeater on the air. What a fine piece if discouragement this is for the people just learning to put a repeater together. Ham radio is all about experimenting to see what you can get away with. It is not a commercial endeavour where crystals have to meet 2.5ppm! If the crystals don't perform to your expectations from one vendor, try someone else. Steve WA6ZFT Very well put, Steve. In addition, I will add that my limited experience with ICM has ranged anywhere from about the same as Standard West Crystal (latter is what I currently use) to poor. This is why I don't regard ICM as being a perfect source. Why should I pay more for a product of comparable quality? Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Caution on Bomar Crystals
When I use ICM I am usually charged $20 each rock for a 2-3 week cutting time. But if this is what evryone else charges I don't know where the Expensive label comes from. I used to use a company that charged $6 each, but there junk drifted about once a month. On 5/11/05, Bob Dengler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 5/10/2005 08:40 PM, you wrote: Why is it a common theme for some in this group make a statement such as this?: If you cannot afford International, you cannot afford to put a repeater on the air. What a fine piece if discouragement this is for the people just learning to put a repeater together. Ham radio is all about experimenting to see what you can get away with. It is not a commercial endeavour where crystals have to meet 2.5ppm! If the crystals don't perform to your expectations from one vendor, try someone else. Steve WA6ZFT Very well put, Steve. In addition, I will add that my limited experience with ICM has ranged anywhere from about the same as Standard West Crystal (latter is what I currently use) to poor. This is why I don't regard ICM as being a perfect source. Why should I pay more for a product of comparable quality? Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Caution on Bomar Crystals
Expensive: Mototola Mitrek recrystal and tempco at ICM: $50.00/element. Bomar is $35.00. West is appx. $32.00. Heck, the radios that use these elements arent worth more than $20.00 on the used market! Steve WA6ZFT From: DCFluX [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2005/05/11 Wed PM 05:23:34 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Caution on Bomar Crystals When I use ICM I am usually charged $20 each rock for a 2-3 week cutting time. But if this is what evryone else charges I don't know where the Expensive label comes from. I used to use a company that charged $6 each, but there junk drifted about once a month. On 5/11/05, Bob Dengler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 5/10/2005 08:40 PM, you wrote: Why is it a common theme for some in this group make a statement such as this?: If you cannot afford International, you cannot afford to put a repeater on the air. What a fine piece if discouragement this is for the people just learning to put a repeater together. Ham radio is all about experimenting to see what you can get away with. It is not a commercial endeavour where crystals have to meet 2.5ppm! If the crystals don't perform to your expectations from one vendor, try someone else. Steve WA6ZFT Very well put, Steve. In addition, I will add that my limited experience with ICM has ranged anywhere from about the same as Standard West Crystal (latter is what I currently use) to poor. This is why I don't regard ICM as being a perfect source. Why should I pay more for a product of comparable quality? Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Caution on Bomar Crystals
FYI on orders to Bomar Crystal. Just had a flustrating phone conversation with Bomar. Ordered 3 crystals at $10 each. Came in at $20 each plus $10 shipping. Asked why. Was told it was billed wrong. Offered to credit me $2.50 each as they made them on a 2 week basis (RUSH) and there is a $50 minimum. They were not sure who took order. They said they ALWAYS let everyone know about the minimum. I ordered them as a trial first order on a non critical job. Would not budge or change back to what I ordered. Would not allow me to discuss with anyone else on this standard delivery phone order. They did allow me to send them back for full credit. They suggested that I be careful in ordering next time. I think I learned my lesson on this first order. This is a disappointment. Mark Boden - N4TZV Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Caution on Bomar Crystals
I understand your frustration Mark. However each time I've done a phone order from Bomar they have told me the total for the order while on the phone. They started the $50 minimum order several years ago but I don't see any mention of this on their web page. I've had a few problems with Bomar in the past but I also have had some problems with every other xtal manufacture I've dealt with. I once ordered 5 crystals for a microwave oscillator from ICM. I sent them the original crystal from the oscillator as they suggested. I clearly stated this crystal was for them to measure the operating characteristics for cutting the crystals I wanted. What I got was five new crystals on the same frequency as the reference that was stamped with the ordered frequency. They made it good but this error delayed my project several months. Dex Mark Boden wrote: FYI on orders to Bomar Crystal. Just had a flustrating phone conversation with Bomar. Ordered 3 crystals at $10 each. Came in at $20 each plus $10 shipping. Asked why. Was told it was billed wrong. Offered to credit me $2.50 each as they made them on a 2 week basis (RUSH) and there is a $50 minimum. They were not sure who took order. They said they ALWAYS let everyone know about the minimum. I ordered them as a trial first order on a non critical job. Would not budge or change back to what I ordered. Would not allow me to discuss with anyone else on this standard delivery phone order. They did allow me to send them back for full credit. They suggested that I be careful in ordering next time. I think I learned my lesson on this first order. This is a disappointment. Mark Boden - N4TZV Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Caution on Bomar Crystals
we have ordered lots crystals from Bomar and they always work and with out problems. Just need to understand the price. Good is not always cheep. John - Original Message - From: Mark Boden [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 2:52 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Caution on Bomar Crystals FYI on orders to Bomar Crystal. Just had a flustrating phone conversation with Bomar. Ordered 3 crystals at $10 each. Came in at $20 each plus $10 shipping. Asked why. Was told it was billed wrong. Offered to credit me $2.50 each as they made them on a 2 week basis (RUSH) and there is a $50 minimum. They were not sure who took order. They said they ALWAYS let everyone know about the minimum. I ordered them as a trial first order on a non critical job. Would not budge or change back to what I ordered. Would not allow me to discuss with anyone else on this standard delivery phone order. They did allow me to send them back for full credit. They suggested that I be careful in ordering next time. I think I learned my lesson on this first order. This is a disappointment. Mark Boden - N4TZV Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Caution on Bomar Crystals
-Good is not always cheep. Very, very true. That is why I always use ICM. I have a 100% satisfaction rating on every order I have ever placed with them. Recently, they even offered us a great quantity discount on some Minitor II crystals for our 2-meter repeater freq. In qty of 50 or more $3 each. You cannot beat their product or service. 73, Kevin, K9HX Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Caution on Bomar Crystals
Mark, I am about to order crystals for 6 repeaters, was thinking about Bomar or Standard, can't afford International for obvious reasons. Glad you posted this, I will be very careful! Paul -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mark Boden Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 1:53 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Caution on Bomar Crystals FYI on orders to Bomar Crystal. Just had a flustrating phone conversation with Bomar. Ordered 3 crystals at $10 each. Came in at $20 each plus $10 shipping. Asked why. Was told it was billed wrong. Offered to credit me $2.50 each as they made them on a 2 week basis (RUSH) and there is a $50 minimum. They were not sure who took order. They said they ALWAYS let everyone know about the minimum. I ordered them as a trial first order on a non critical job. Would not budge or change back to what I ordered. Would not allow me to discuss with anyone else on this standard delivery phone order. They did allow me to send them back for full credit. They suggested that I be careful in ordering next time. I think I learned my lesson on this first order. This is a disappointment. Mark Boden - N4TZV Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Caution on Bomar Crystals
If you cannot afford International, you cannot afford to put a repeater on the air. Repeaters can get to be costly. Being a good neighbor is very cheap insurance. Poor crystals = being a possibly bad neighbor (causing interference or being off frequency). Good quality every thing in a repeater is cheaper in the long run. The repeater stays on the air longer, it works better, fewer trips to the site, less unknown problems , etc. Cheap at the beginning equates to poor performance until you get the quality up. I have attempted to use off breed crystals (Bomar, Standard, Jan and others). These sometimes work ok for something that is not critical and does not have the potential to generate interference over a large area. I always go back to International when I want reliability. YMMV, this is the opinion of one person that has been in the electronics field for only 45 years. I still have a lot to learn. 73 Glenn WB4UIV At 10:55 PM 05/10/05, you wrote: Mark, I am about to order crystals for 6 repeaters, was thinking about Bomar or Standard, can't afford International for obvious reasons. Glad you posted this, I will be very careful! Paul -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mark Boden Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 1:53 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Caution on Bomar Crystals FYI on orders to Bomar Crystal. Just had a flustrating phone conversation with Bomar. Ordered 3 crystals at $10 each. Came in at $20 each plus $10 shipping. Asked why. Was told it was billed wrong. Offered to credit me $2.50 each as they made them on a 2 week basis (RUSH) and there is a $50 minimum. They were not sure who took order. They said they ALWAYS let everyone know about the minimum. I ordered them as a trial first order on a non critical job. Would not budge or change back to what I ordered. Would not allow me to discuss with anyone else on this standard delivery phone order. They did allow me to send them back for full credit. They suggested that I be careful in ordering next time. I think I learned my lesson on this first order. This is a disappointment. Mark Boden - N4TZV Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Caution on Bomar Crystals
Why is it a common theme for some in this group make a statement such as this?: If you cannot afford International, you cannot afford to put a repeater on the air. What a fine piece if discouragement this is for the people just learning to put a repeater together. Ham radio is all about experimenting to see what you can get away with. It is not a commercial endeavour where crystals have to meet 2.5ppm! If the crystals don't perform to your expectations from one vendor, try someone else. Steve WA6ZFT Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Caution on Bomar Crystals
Probably because it's true. There are things you can skimp on in a repeater and get lesser performance, and there are things which if messed up cause all sorts of problems, for both the repeater users and others. A crystal is definitely one of the latter. Getting cheaper coax means degraded performance, but it isn't going to affect others. Sadly, you can't really experiment much on the lower repeater bands. Mess up a repeater on 6, 2, 222 or 440 frequency wise and you're likely to find out. This happened to a system in west Michigan once. We were driving around and I tried getting into the local repeater and found I couldn't. I heard someone on but sounding off freq, so I started hunting around and found that the input had drifted more than 10KHz high. Once there I was able to get in, but not sounding great. Talking with the owner on a 440 system, he'd gotten new crystals, not from ICM because he thought he couldn't afford it. This was during the 15 to 20KHz changeover for repeaters. I'm sure he learned something from that experience, and I did as well. What I'd been taught from the repeater folks I'd been hanging around proved right in reality. Running a repeater is a certain amount of pain. I'm willing to see what I can get away with too, but there are things that I won't try to skimp on and this is one of them. --STeve Andre' wb8wsf On Tuesday 10 May 2005 23:40, Steve Rodgers wrote: Why is it a common theme for some in this group make a statement such as this?: If you cannot afford International, you cannot afford to put a repeater on the air. What a fine piece if discouragement this is for the people just learning to put a repeater together. Ham radio is all about experimenting to see what you can get away with. It is not a commercial endeavour where crystals have to meet 2.5ppm! If the crystals don't perform to your expectations from one vendor, try someone else. Steve WA6ZFT Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Caution on Bomar Crystals
In my opinion, and I have participated in this for quite a number of years, if you like visiting your snow bound repeater site in the dead of winter because the transmitter crystal drifted off frequency, fine. Go ahead and buy the cheaper crystal. If you don't like visiting your snowed in repeater site, buy the best crystal. Neil McKie - WA6KLA Steve Rodgers wrote: Why is it a common theme for some in this group make a statement such as this?: If you cannot afford International, you cannot afford to put a repeater on the air. What a fine piece if discouragement this is for the people just learning to put a repeater together. Ham radio is all about experimenting to see what you can get away with. It is not a commercial endeavour where crystals have to meet 2.5ppm! If the crystals don't perform to your expectations from one vendor, try someone else. Steve WA6ZFT Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
