Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination
That assumes that a coordination should last forever once granted. A lot of coordinators would have a big problem with that thinking. In some areas, a coordination does not expire, but in some, they DO. If it does, the person should have no expectation that it's still valid if it has an expiration date (just try that argument with your FCC license). That said, we don't know what happened with the old repeater. If he was sent a notice that his coordination expired, then the coordinator has all bases covered. I know in my area (where they do not expire) a certified letter is sent notifying the person that their coordination is no longer valid. That only happens after a long due process. Too often, someone just takes a repeater off the air and never tells anyone. My point is that we are assuming (in all sense of the word) what has happened in this case. It's between the trustees, the FRC, and the FCC. Joe M. JOHN MACKEY wrote: Hi Mike! I'm in partial agreement with you also, but there is something wrong with a coordination council that coordinates a repeater on a freq that they knew already had a repeater on it - even if it is expired. -- Original Message -- Received: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 05:54:47 PM PST From: Mike Mullarkey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination HI John, I agree with to a point but the FCC will first ask the coordinating group witch repeater is coordinated. That is exactly what Bin would do and has done so in Oregon and Washington. If there is another channel available take it. Mike _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JOHN MACKEY Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 5:25 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination Sorry Mike, I disagree. As you know,I spent about 10 years on the ORRC myself, several of those as the database manager. The other repeater was there first. The coordination council either (1) did not have an accurate database and/or (2) did not research it throughly. Even if the first repeater's coordination expired, the first repeater station was there first and still operating as originally coordinated. There is no legal requirement to coordinate repeaters, but the council did know about this individual. Camilo, I suggest find another frequency. -- Original Message -- Received: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 02:18:35 PM PST From: Mike Mullarkey [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:k7pfj%40comcast.net net The other guy that let his coordination expire is out of luck and needs to vacate the channel. Being a past chairman of the ORRC Oregon Region Relay Council. If the guy that has had the channel and not followed the buy laws of the FRC and filed update paperwork. Try to work with the other repeater operator and if he is not receptive to change. Assuming you have official paperwork in hand and a signed coordination. You can contact the NFCC and let them mediate for you or file official paperwork with the FCC and they will shut him down since he is not coordinated. Good Luck. Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination
MCH wrote: Coordination is not required, but when one repeater is coordinated, and the other is not, *the uncoordinated one must resolve the problem*. That's in Part 97. I'll pick on Joe here a minute The rules state that it is *primarily* the responsibility of the uncoordinated repeater (owner) to resolve the issue. This means that the problem is NOT solely the responsibility of the uncoordinated system, but SOME responsibility lies upon the coordinated system (owner) to help resolve the issue. Kevin Custer List Owner
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination
Daron - In a perfect world you would be correct. But unforunately amateur radio coordination is far from perfect. Regarding some of the systems that the ORRC believe are uncoordinated which I am affilated, that is because they do not recognize the 2 other coordinating bodies in Oregon. That is thier problem, not anyone elses. John your perception continues to be distorted by reality. Per the NFCC there appears to be one coordination body in Oregon (http://www.arrl.org/nfcc/coordinators.htm#38): Oregon Oregon http://www.orrc.org/ Region Relay Council, Inc. (ORRC) http://www.arrl.org/nfcc/coordinators.htm#buttons http://www.arrl.org/nfcc/NFCCbut.gif CERTIFIED Frequency Coordinations PO Box 4402 Portland, OR 97208-4402 Neither the ORRC or the NFCC recognizes any other coordinating body in Oregon. While this isn't our problem, the repeater owners who think these other unincorporated groups are coordinating them could very likely receive the FCC letter asking them as the uncoordinated repeater to resolve the interference issue. If the ORRC had been operating professionally and effectively, there would have no reason to start the other coordination bodies. I honestly can't speak to the operation of the organization back when you were on the board, but I do understand they had issues. As I'm sure you are aware, the group was started in 1976 or so, incorporated in 1985 and has remained the coordination body in Oregon and SW Washington since. The bylaws governing the organization can only be changed by a majority vote of the membership. If the governing body is NOT doing what the majority of the constituents want, then they have the tool to change the rules and they have many times. (WOW, sounds like politics) I'm in partial agreement with you also, but there is something wrong with a coordination council that coordinates a repeater on a freq that they knew already had a repeater on it - even if it is expired For the coordination system to work correctly, the coordinating body needs the ability to do their job. Nothing prohibits you from operating a repeater anywhere you want that is legal, think of this as 'camping'. However, when the property owner comes along and wants to build a house on his property, you may have to camp somewhere else. If we took the stance that we were just going to coordinate 'around' all the campers, it would be very difficult to have a functional system avoiding interference. Again, if you have any legal or enforcement precedence that indicates merely occupying a repeater frequency gives you preference over a coordinated station on the same frequency, please share that with us so we can all learn. Those of us building and operating amateur repeaters are pretty much aware of how this works, it is a very tough job especially on already full spectrum. So, toss out your old baggage, grab a mitt and get in the game. The next meeting date is on the website, come on in and be part of the solution, I'll even buy you lunch. 73 Daron N7HQR Chairman, ORRC, Inc. And.I approve this message. image003.jpg
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination
True, but what alternative is there to eliminate the interference other than a change to the uncoordinated system? (especially with a CSQ repeater that is causing harmful interference) In this case, the addition of CTCSS/CDCSS would resolve it to the satisfaction of the coordinated trustee, and that certainly is the least the uncoordinated repeater can do. Joe M. Kevin Custer wrote: MCH wrote: Coordination is not required, but when one repeater is coordinated, and the other is not, *the uncoordinated one must resolve the problem*. That's in Part 97. I'll pick on Joe here a minute The rules state that it is *primarily* the responsibility of the uncoordinated repeater (owner) to resolve the issue. This means that the problem is NOT solely the responsibility of the uncoordinated system, but SOME responsibility lies upon the coordinated system (owner) to help resolve the issue. Kevin Custer List Owner No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1763 - Release Date: 11/2/2008 7:08 PM
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination
Camilo So wrote: First of all I want to apologize to the Moderator for bringing up a of topic on this group, most of all thank you to every one that reply specially Joe M. (MCH) this is the same shortcut my XYL is working at (Miami Children Hospital). Again thanks to all. Since you followed my 'rules' about the OT post, I'll allow it to continue for now. Joe M. is one of the most knowledgeable folks on the subject, and we're glad he takes time from his busy schedule to help with these types of issues. Kevin Custer List Owner
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination
And how do you know that? How do you know that the repeater wasn't turned back on after the guy heard another repeater on 'his frequency'. How do you know it wasn't ever off the air? You don't. As I said, don't assume facts. Joe M. JOHN MACKEY wrote: Coordination is intended to avoid conflict. The coordination council coordinated another system where they knew a repeater had been operating without confirming it was no longer operational. -- Original Message -- Received: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 06:53:38 PM PST From: MCH [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination If he calls the FCC, he will find he is SOL. Coordination is not required, but when one repeater is coordinated, and the other is not, the uncoordinated one must resolve the problem. That's in Part 97. It doesn't matter who was there first. Part 97 makes no reference to seniority. FRC's rules may say something on the matter, but the written FCC rules would trump (actually preempt) and local rules. Joe M. JOHN MACKEY wrote: If the other guy is smart he'll call the FCC first, as he was on the channel first. Coordination is not required, and the coordiation group should have suspected he was still there if the coordination had expired. LOTS off coordinations expire but the repeaters stay on the air. As a past database manager and board member of the Oregon Region Relay Council I can tell you this happens often. -- Original Message -- Received: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 02:28:15 PM PST From: MCH [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination If he is uncooperative, and uncoordinated, just call the FCC. That's about all you can do. You might mention this option to him and that may make him more receptive to acceptable solutions. Joe M. Camilo So wrote: Hi sorry for out of topic question, because most of the friend I have ask no one can give an answer or advice that is why I am turning to this group for help and advice, regarding.The pair of repeater frequency that I applied for, First I went to the FRC (Florida Repeater Council) website, and look for frequency that is not listed, and I did monitor the frequency (444.425 MHZ) for traffic or qso it’s quiet,Then I applied for the freq. and it was approved by FRC, The problem is when I turn my Repeater on (with PL), I was bringing another repeater up on csq (carrier squelch). Then I send an email to the FRC reporting that there is a repeater on that freq, and they found out that the repeater freq belong to KA4DFX according to the coordinator that his permit expired two years ago, and they want the director of district 1 W4HN to contact KA4DFX to convince him to apply for a frequency coordination, but W4HN is blaming me, in his email he told me to listen before turning my repeater on because in HF if some one is having a QSO and you are calling cq,cq, I am interfering someone qso, but this repeater is quiet no qso no one knows there is a repeater, on that freq, its not listed on the new updated FRC website, to make this story short, I am not trying to step On somebody shoes, I just want to contact KA4DFX, to ask him a favor if it’s possible for him to put a PL on his repeater, and I don’t mind sharing the frequency with him. But looking at qrz he doesn’t have an address just (P.O. Box) and no email address. I know it’s not my job to contact him, if any one has any suggestion or advice please let me know, I am open for comments Thanks to all. 73 W4CSO Camilo No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1760 - Release Date: 11/1/2008 9:36 AM Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination
It is a fact the NFCC recognition/certification means zero in the eyes of the FCC. What matters is recognition by the local constituency. I'm curious and would enjoy the documentation you have that shows that statement to be factual. I can understand that if there is a legal conflict between two organizations claiming to be coordinators, the constituency served could make the decision which organization is valid based on a legitimate vote of qualified constituents. However, I can't imagine that if the FCC needs to address a coordination issue in Oregon, that the field guy is going to poll all the constituents in Oregon and make a tally to find the 'coordination body' for the area in question. Much more likely, he is going to look for a published organization doing coordination. There are two repeater owners in the county I reside in. If we both decide that we are our own coordination body and we begin assigning ourselves frequencies that conflict with coordinations issued by the incorporated, NFCC affiliated coordination body in existence 30+ years, I do not believe the FCC is going to recognize us as the coordinating body and back us up simply because we are the local constituency. That would thwart any coordination efforts, as each county, city, repeater group, etc. could act as their own coordination body each coordinating themselves. We see many new folks wanting to build repeaters, and applications for them in their garage. Hopefully they make it here to get the information and support they need. 73 N7HQR
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination
...another system owner wrote me a terse email because he could hear my new repeater on his channel on his base station, about 80 miles away. Which, of course, does not meet the definition of interference.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination
At 11/3/2008 07:20, you wrote: Daron - In a perfect world you would be correct. But unforunately amateur radio coordination is far from perfect. Regarding some of the systems that the ORRC believe are uncoordinated which I am affilated, that is because they do not recognize the 2 other coordinating bodies in Oregon. That is thier problem, not anyone elses. John your perception continues to be distorted by reality. Per the NFCC there appears to be one coordination body in Oregon (http://www.arrl.org/nfcc/coordinators.htm#38): It is a fact the NFCC recognition/certification means zero in the eyes of the FCC. What matters is recognition by the local constituency. Bob NO6B
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination
Daron- The NFCC does not create coordination councils. The constituents recognize their own coordination council. I'll give you a specific example in your own area/council, which happened many years before you were on the scene. In Oregon packet radio was originally coordinated by some group other than ORRC (I have long forgotten what their name was) and it was run by Doug McMurdo W7XI. Eventually, the packet radio community here in Oregon became unhappy with how the packet radio systems were coordinated. Eventually we (the ORRC board of directors - which I was serving on at the time) received a signed petition from packet node and link operators that included about 80% of the total packet systems in Oregon. After several meetings and votes by the general membership, the ORRC started coordinating packet radio systems even though it never had before. Doug McMurdo's group was put out of business very quickly as the ORRC was no longer avoiding packet radio freqs. This all happened in about 1991/1992. The same story in Oregon (above) could be told again, by substituting packet radio with 420-450 MHz and the man running it was Neil McKie WA6KLA rather than Doug McMurdo W7XI. It all played out pretty much the same way in about 1982-1984, and the ORRC started doing the coordinations in UHF. Daron - in both situations, the ORRC came to being because the constituents wanted the ORRC. The NFCC (and fore-runner MACC) had nothing to do with it. Starting about 10 years ago, many repeater and relay operators (constituents) in Oregon became unhappy with how the ORRC was handeling things and did not want the ORRC doing it anymore. Those constituents have since started two different groups to handle coordinations in various parts of Oregon. Again, the NFCC (and fore-runner MACC) had nothing to do with it. The purpose of NFCC is to establish recognition of Amateur Radio frequency coordination by the Federal Communications Commission, the American Radio Relay League, and all Amateur licensees. -- Original Message -- Received: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 08:50:17 AM PST From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination It is a fact the NFCC recognition/certification means zero in the eyes of the FCC. What matters is recognition by the local constituency. I'm curious and would enjoy the documentation you have that shows that statement to be factual. I can understand that if there is a legal conflict between two organizations claiming to be coordinators, the constituency served could make the decision which organization is valid based on a legitimate vote of qualified constituents. However, I can't imagine that if the FCC needs to address a coordination issue in Oregon, that the field guy is going to poll all the constituents in Oregon and make a tally to find the 'coordination body' for the area in question. Much more likely, he is going to look for a published organization doing coordination. There are two repeater owners in the county I reside in. If we both decide that we are our own coordination body and we begin assigning ourselves frequencies that conflict with coordinations issued by the incorporated, NFCC affiliated coordination body in existence 30+ years, I do not believe the FCC is going to recognize us as the coordinating body and back us up simply because we are the local constituency. That would thwart any coordination efforts, as each county, city, repeater group, etc. could act as their own coordination body each coordinating themselves. We see many new folks wanting to build repeaters, and applications for them in their garage. Hopefully they make it here to get the information and support they need. 73 N7HQR
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination
Try telling that to the Oregon Region Relay Council. In 1995 I had my repeater coordination revoked due to that exact reason. -- Original Message -- Received: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 08:59:54 AM PST From: Paul Plack [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination ...another system owner wrote me a terse email because he could hear my new repeater on his channel on his base station, about 80 miles away. Which, of course, does not meet the definition of interference.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination
Daron- The NFCC does not create coordination councils. The constituents recognize their own coordination council. John.I never made any reference to the NFCC creating anything, I simply pointed out the one recognized group for Oregon per the NFCC. The 'constituents' of Oregon did exactly that with the ORRC, and there are provisions in the bylaws for any other legitimate group to challenge and become the coordination group for a particular area. Neither of the groups you reference have exercised that challenge, mostly because it requires the proposed coordination body produce organizational bylaws, demonstrate organization, and solicit a legitimate vote of all the repeater owners in the intended area. I'll spare the group the rest of the examples you posted, I was involved in packet at the same time, chaired the Oregon Packet Radio Association and worked with and then past Doug W7XI. My VHF repeater was coordinated in 1985 or so, it is log number 24, I am familiar with much of the history and have been involved with it for 23 years. I find it unfortunate that dissatisfied constituents failed to get involved and make a change, assuming it was needed. If we all did that, we'd have 40 or more coordination groups in Oregon. It makes no sense. If there is one group, coordination is rather easy, because everyone involved is there at one time and any conflicts can quickly be addressed. If there were 10 groups, an application that might be on a high peak could mean coordinating that with 9 other groups. Time will tell. Again, I invite you to become part of the solution. 73 N7HQR
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination
Daron- There is no reason why other coordination groups need to jump thru the hoops (what you called provisions in the bylaws) of the ORRC to become coordinating bodies. Instead they can do exactly the same as the ORRC did and have their 'constituents' recognize the group they desire. If it was good enough for the ORRC, it should be good enough for other groups. It is sad that you have made the statement unfortunate that dissatisfied constituents failed to get involved and make a change, assuming it was needed. Let me give you a couple examples: 1. Personally, I was an ORRC board member for most years between 1989 and 2002 and served as an officer of the board for several of those years. 2. Dick Suber (K7DDI) spent many years on the ORRC board (probably over 20 yrs) Neither Dick or myself failed to get involved but we apparently did fail at making a change in ORRC. So we started to focus in a direction where we could make positive changes. The ORRC needs to change, and they have at least 2-3 board members who want to run it for their own personal gain rather than doing what is right. I hope the ORRC can change some day. -- Original Message -- Received: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 02:24:55 PM PST From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] John.I never made any reference to the NFCC creating anything, I simply pointed out the one recognized group for Oregon per the NFCC. The 'constituents' of Oregon did exactly that with the ORRC, and there are provisions in the bylaws for any other legitimate group to challenge and become the coordination group for a particular area. Neither of the groups you reference have exercised that challenge, mostly because it requires the proposed coordination body produce organizational bylaws, demonstrate organization, and solicit a legitimate vote of all the repeater owners in the intended area. I'll spare the group the rest of the examples you posted, I was involved in packet at the same time, chaired the Oregon Packet Radio Association and worked with and then past Doug W7XI. My VHF repeater was coordinated in 1985 or so, it is log number 24, I am familiar with much of the history and have been involved with it for 23 years. I find it unfortunate that dissatisfied constituents failed to get involved and make a change, assuming it was needed. If we all did that, we'd have 40 or more coordination groups in Oregon. It makes no sense. If there is one group, coordination is rather easy, because everyone involved is there at one time and any conflicts can quickly be addressed. If there were 10 groups, an application that might be on a high peak could mean coordinating that with 9 other groups. Time will tell. Again, I invite you to become part of the solution. 73 N7HQR
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination
There is no reason why other coordination groups need to jump thru the hoops (what you called provisions in the bylaws) of the ORRC to become coordinating bodies. Instead they can do exactly the same as the ORRC did and have their 'constituents' recognize the group they desire. If it was good enough for the ORRC, it should be good enough for other groups. Except, John, when the ORRC first organized there was no other recognized group.In this case, there is a corporation that has been doing the job for 20+ years. That founders put a clause in there to allow another 'organization' to demonstrate their ability, and demonstrate the support of the constituents, at which time the existing group would hand over the responsibility. That seems very reasonable to me. Let's take this off list, I doubt anyone else cares about who was a member and when. 73
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination
My intention was not to provide a resolution, but to point out the responsibility of said resolution does not fall solely on the un dude... So says the FCC rules. Kevin True, but what alternative. Kevin Custer wrote: MCH wrote: Coordination is not required, but when one repeater is coordinated, and the other is not, *the uncoordinated one must resolve the problem*. That's in Part 97. I'll pick on Joe here a minute The rules state that it is *primarily* the responsibility of the uncoordinated repeater (owner) to resolve the issue. This means that the problem is NOT solely the responsibility of the uncoordinated system, but SOME responsibility lies upon the coordinated system (owner) to help resolve the issue. Kevin Custer List Owner
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination
This thread has gone from helping out a builder with a coordination problem to a discussion of internal ORRC politics. The only question I would have is whether any of the OTHER coordinators are working with anyone other than ORRC. If not, the new groups are not considering the existing repeaters around them, either. Consider it rhetorical - the answer need not be posted. Joe M. JOHN MACKEY wrote: Daron- There is no reason why other coordination groups need to jump thru the hoops (what you called provisions in the bylaws) of the ORRC to become coordinating bodies. Instead they can do exactly the same as the ORRC did and have their 'constituents' recognize the group they desire. If it was good enough for the ORRC, it should be good enough for other groups. It is sad that you have made the statement unfortunate that dissatisfied constituents failed to get involved and make a change, assuming it was needed. Let me give you a couple examples: 1. Personally, I was an ORRC board member for most years between 1989 and 2002 and served as an officer of the board for several of those years. 2. Dick Suber (K7DDI) spent many years on the ORRC board (probably over 20 yrs) Neither Dick or myself failed to get involved but we apparently did fail at making a change in ORRC. So we started to focus in a direction where we could make positive changes. The ORRC needs to change, and they have at least 2-3 board members who want to run it for their own personal gain rather than doing what is right. I hope the ORRC can change some day. -- Original Message -- Received: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 02:24:55 PM PST From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] John.I never made any reference to the NFCC creating anything, I simply pointed out the one recognized group for Oregon per the NFCC. The 'constituents' of Oregon did exactly that with the ORRC, and there are provisions in the bylaws for any other legitimate group to challenge and become the coordination group for a particular area. Neither of the groups you reference have exercised that challenge, mostly because it requires the proposed coordination body produce organizational bylaws, demonstrate organization, and solicit a legitimate vote of all the repeater owners in the intended area. I'll spare the group the rest of the examples you posted, I was involved in packet at the same time, chaired the Oregon Packet Radio Association and worked with and then past Doug W7XI. My VHF repeater was coordinated in 1985 or so, it is log number 24, I am familiar with much of the history and have been involved with it for 23 years. I find it unfortunate that dissatisfied constituents failed to get involved and make a change, assuming it was needed. If we all did that, we'd have 40 or more coordination groups in Oregon. It makes no sense. If there is one group, coordination is rather easy, because everyone involved is there at one time and any conflicts can quickly be addressed. If there were 10 groups, an application that might be on a high peak could mean coordinating that with 9 other groups. Time will tell. Again, I invite you to become part of the solution. 73 N7HQR Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination
Hi sorry for out of topic question, because most of the friend I have ask no one can give an answer or advice that is why I am turning to this group for help and advice, regarding.The pair of repeater frequency that I applied for, First I went to the FRC (Florida Repeater Council) website, and look for frequency that is not listed, and I did monitor the frequency (444.425 MHZ) for traffic or qso it's quiet,Then I applied for the freq. and it was approved by FRC, The problem is when I turn my Repeater on (with PL), I was bringing another repeater up on csq (carrier squelch). Then I send an email to the FRC reporting that there is a repeater on that freq, and they found out that the repeater freq belong to KA4DFX according to the coordinator that his permit expired two years ago, and they want the director of district 1 W4HN to contact KA4DFX to convince him to apply for a frequency coordination, but W4HN is blaming me, in his email he told me to listen before turning my repeater on because in HF if some one is having a QSO and you are calling cq,cq, I am interfering someone qso, but this repeater is quiet no qso no one knows there is a repeater, on that freq, its not listed on the new updated FRC website, to make this story short, I am not trying to step On somebody shoes, I just want to contact KA4DFX, to ask him a favor if it's possible for him to put a PL on his repeater, and I don't mind sharing the frequency with him. But looking at qrz he doesn't have an address just (P.O. Box) and no email address. I know it's not my job to contact him, if any one has any suggestion or advice please let me know, I am open for comments Thanks to all. 73 W4CSO Camilo
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination
Camilo, The other guy that let his coordination expire is out of luck and needs to vacate the channel. Being a past chairman of the ORRC Oregon Region Relay Council. If the guy that has had the channel and not followed the buy laws of the FRC and filed update paperwork. Try to work with the other repeater operator and if he is not receptive to change. Assuming you have official paperwork in hand and a signed coordination. You can contact the NFCC and let them mediate for you or file official paperwork with the FCC and they will shut him down since he is not coordinated. Good Luck. Mike K7PFJ _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Camilo So Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 2:49 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination Hi sorry for out of topic question, because most of the friend I have ask no one can give an answer or advice that is why I am turning to this group for help and advice, regarding.The pair of repeater frequency that I applied for, First I went to the FRC (Florida Repeater Council) website, and look for frequency that is not listed, and I did monitor the frequency (444.425 MHZ) for traffic or qso it's quiet,Then I applied for the freq. and it was approved by FRC, The problem is when I turn my Repeater on (with PL), I was bringing another repeater up on csq (carrier squelch). Then I send an email to the FRC reporting that there is a repeater on that freq, and they found out that the repeater freq belong to KA4DFX according to the coordinator that his permit expired two years ago, and they want the director of district 1 W4HN to contact KA4DFX to convince him to apply for a frequency coordination, but W4HN is blaming me, in his email he told me to listen before turning my repeater on because in HF if some one is having a QSO and you are calling cq,cq, I am interfering someone qso, but this repeater is quiet no qso no one knows there is a repeater, on that freq, its not listed on the new updated FRC website, to make this story short, I am not trying to step On somebody shoes, I just want to contact KA4DFX, to ask him a favor if it's possible for him to put a PL on his repeater, and I don't mind sharing the frequency with him. But looking at qrz he doesn't have an address just (P.O. Box) and no email address. I know it's not my job to contact him, if any one has any suggestion or advice please let me know, I am open for comments Thanks to all. 73 W4CSO Camilo
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination
If he is uncooperative, and uncoordinated, just call the FCC. That's about all you can do. You might mention this option to him and that may make him more receptive to acceptable solutions. Joe M. Camilo So wrote: Hi sorry for out of topic question, because most of the friend I have ask no one can give an answer or advice that is why I am turning to this group for help and advice, regarding.The pair of repeater frequency that I applied for, First I went to the FRC (Florida Repeater Council) website, and look for frequency that is not listed, and I did monitor the frequency (444.425 MHZ) for traffic or qso it’s quiet,Then I applied for the freq. and it was approved by FRC, The problem is when I turn my Repeater on (with PL), I was bringing another repeater up on csq (carrier squelch). Then I send an email to the FRC reporting that there is a repeater on that freq, and they found out that the repeater freq belong to KA4DFX according to the coordinator that his permit expired two years ago, and they want the director of district 1 W4HN to contact KA4DFX to convince him to apply for a frequency coordination, but W4HN is blaming me, in his email he told me to listen before turning my repeater on because in HF if some one is having a QSO and you are calling cq,cq, I am interfering someone qso, but this repeater is quiet no qso no one knows there is a repeater, on that freq, its not listed on the new updated FRC website, to make this story short, I am not trying to step On somebody shoes, I just want to contact KA4DFX, to ask him a favor if it’s possible for him to put a PL on his repeater, and I don’t mind sharing the frequency with him. But looking at qrz he doesn’t have an address just (P.O. Box) and no email address. I know it’s not my job to contact him, if any one has any suggestion or advice please let me know, I am open for comments Thanks to all. 73 W4CSO Camilo No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1760 - Release Date: 11/1/2008 9:36 AM Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination
Hi Mike, My problem is I can not use my repeater because I have PL , His don't have a PL every time I key up I am bringing up two repeater, its like I was being jams, He have the advantage, when he key up he only bring his up, because I have PL. and the worse problem is I am given two mouth to turn my repeater on or lost the frequency that is assigned to me. If I try to call him on his repeater there is no answer, Yes I have the official paperwork, and its easy if you go to http://florida-repeaters.org/ under repeater listing select 440 MHZ, then under DATABASE CHANGES look for 444.425 MHZ. The approved date is 10/05/08. Camilo W4CSO - Original Message - From: Mike Mullarkey To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 5:18 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination Camilo, The other guy that let his coordination expire is out of luck and needs to vacate the channel. Being a past chairman of the ORRC Oregon Region Relay Council. If the guy that has had the channel and not followed the buy laws of the FRC and filed update paperwork. Try to work with the other repeater operator and if he is not receptive to change. Assuming you have official paperwork in hand and a signed coordination. You can contact the NFCC and let them mediate for you or file official paperwork with the FCC and they will shut him down since he is not coordinated. Good Luck. Mike K7PFJ -- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Camilo So Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 2:49 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination Hi sorry for out of topic question, because most of the friend I have ask no one can give an answer or advice that is why I am turning to this group for help and advice, regarding.The pair of repeater frequency that I applied for, First I went to the FRC (Florida Repeater Council) website, and look for frequency that is not listed, and I did monitor the frequency (444.425 MHZ) for traffic or qso it's quiet,Then I applied for the freq. and it was approved by FRC, The problem is when I turn my Repeater on (with PL), I was bringing another repeater up on csq (carrier squelch). Then I send an email to the FRC reporting that there is a repeater on that freq, and they found out that the repeater freq belong to KA4DFX according to the coordinator that his permit expired two years ago, and they want the director of district 1 W4HN to contact KA4DFX to convince him to apply for a frequency coordination, but W4HN is blaming me, in his email he told me to listen before turning my repeater on because in HF if some one is having a QSO and you are calling cq,cq, I am interfering someone qso, but this repeater is quiet no qso no one knows there is a repeater, on that freq, its not listed on the new updated FRC website, to make this story short, I am not trying to step On somebody shoes, I just want to contact KA4DFX, to ask him a favor if it's possible for him to put a PL on his repeater, and I don't mind sharing the frequency with him. But looking at qrz he doesn't have an address just (P.O. Box) and no email address. I know it's not my job to contact him, if any one has any suggestion or advice please let me know, I am open for comments Thanks to all. 73 W4CSO Camilo
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination
Camilo, I forgot to mention that the FRC is suppose to mediate these issues for you. It sounds like that they are running the good old boys network down there and in these days that doesn't always work. They have an interest to mediate this since they will be drug though the coals if you do in fact call the FCC. Give the other guy one chance to turn his equipment off and then if he still persists make the call. Mike K7PFJ _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Camilo So Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 2:49 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination Hi sorry for out of topic question, because most of the friend I have ask no one can give an answer or advice that is why I am turning to this group for help and advice, regarding.The pair of repeater frequency that I applied for, First I went to the FRC (Florida Repeater Council) website, and look for frequency that is not listed, and I did monitor the frequency (444.425 MHZ) for traffic or qso it's quiet,Then I applied for the freq. and it was approved by FRC, The problem is when I turn my Repeater on (with PL), I was bringing another repeater up on csq (carrier squelch). Then I send an email to the FRC reporting that there is a repeater on that freq, and they found out that the repeater freq belong to KA4DFX according to the coordinator that his permit expired two years ago, and they want the director of district 1 W4HN to contact KA4DFX to convince him to apply for a frequency coordination, but W4HN is blaming me, in his email he told me to listen before turning my repeater on because in HF if some one is having a QSO and you are calling cq,cq, I am interfering someone qso, but this repeater is quiet no qso no one knows there is a repeater, on that freq, its not listed on the new updated FRC website, to make this story short, I am not trying to step On somebody shoes, I just want to contact KA4DFX, to ask him a favor if it's possible for him to put a PL on his repeater, and I don't mind sharing the frequency with him. But looking at qrz he doesn't have an address just (P.O. Box) and no email address. I know it's not my job to contact him, if any one has any suggestion or advice please let me know, I am open for comments Thanks to all. 73 W4CSO Camilo
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination
The NFCC will not get involved with internal issues such as this. Joe M. Mike Mullarkey wrote: Camilo, The other guy that let his coordination expire is out of luck and needs to vacate the channel. Being a past chairman of the ORRC Oregon Region Relay Council. If the guy that has had the channel and not followed the buy laws of the FRC and filed update paperwork. Try to work with the other repeater operator and if he is not receptive to change. Assuming you have official paperwork in hand and a signed coordination. You can contact the NFCC and let them mediate for you or file official paperwork with the FCC and they will shut him down since he is not coordinated. Good Luck. Mike K7PFJ *From:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Camilo So *Sent:* Sunday, November 02, 2008 2:49 PM *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination Hi sorry for out of topic question, because most of the friend I have ask no one can give an answer or advice that is why I am turning to this group for help and advice, regarding.The pair of repeater frequency that I applied for, First I went to the FRC (Florida Repeater Council) website, and look for frequency that is not listed, and I did monitor the frequency (444.425 MHZ) for traffic or qso it’s quiet,Then I applied for the freq. and it was approved by FRC, The problem is when I turn my Repeater on (with PL), I was bringing another repeater up on csq (carrier squelch). Then I send an email to the FRC reporting that there is a repeater on that freq, and they found out that the repeater freq belong to KA4DFX according to the coordinator that his permit expired two years ago, and they want the director of district 1 W4HN to contact KA4DFX to convince him to apply for a frequency coordination, but W4HN is blaming me, in his email he told me to listen before turning my repeater on because in HF if some one is having a QSO and you are calling cq,cq, I am interfering someone qso, but this repeater is quiet no qso no one knows there is a repeater, on that freq, its not listed on the new updated FRC website, to make this story short, I am not trying to step On somebody shoes, I just want to contact KA4DFX, to ask him a favor if it’s possible for him to put a PL on his repeater, and I don’t mind sharing the frequency with him. But looking at qrz he doesn’t have an address just (P.O. Box) and no email address. I know it’s not my job to contact him, if any one has any suggestion or advice please let me know, I am open for comments Thanks to all. 73 W4CSO Camilo No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1763 - Release Date: 11/2/2008 7:08 PM Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination
Camilo, We really should not clog the list with this since this is a repeater builders list. If you want to contact me off the list I would be more than happy in assisting you with any recommendations I may help with. Mike _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Camilo So Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 3:37 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination Hi Mike, My problem is I can not use my repeater because I have PL , His don't have a PL every time I key up I am bringing up two repeater, its like I was being jams, He have the advantage, when he key up he only bring his up, because I have PL. and the worse problem is I am given two mouth to turn my repeater on or lost the frequency that is assigned to me. If I try to call him on his repeater there is no answer, Yes I have the official paperwork, and its easy if you go to http://florida- http://florida-repeaters.org/ repeaters.org/ under repeater listing select 440 MHZ, then under DATABASE CHANGES http://florida-repeaters.org/dbchange.htm look for 444.425 MHZ. The approved date is 10/05/08. Camilo W4CSO - Original Message - From: Mike Mullarkey mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 5:18 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination Camilo, The other guy that let his coordination expire is out of luck and needs to vacate the channel. Being a past chairman of the ORRC Oregon Region Relay Council. If the guy that has had the channel and not followed the buy laws of the FRC and filed update paperwork. Try to work with the other repeater operator and if he is not receptive to change. Assuming you have official paperwork in hand and a signed coordination. You can contact the NFCC and let them mediate for you or file official paperwork with the FCC and they will shut him down since he is not coordinated. Good Luck. Mike K7PFJ _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Camilo So Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 2:49 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination Hi sorry for out of topic question, because most of the friend I have ask no one can give an answer or advice that is why I am turning to this group for help and advice, regarding.The pair of repeater frequency that I applied for, First I went to the FRC (Florida Repeater Council) website, and look for frequency that is not listed, and I did monitor the frequency (444.425 MHZ) for traffic or qso it's quiet,Then I applied for the freq. and it was approved by FRC, The problem is when I turn my Repeater on (with PL), I was bringing another repeater up on csq (carrier squelch). Then I send an email to the FRC reporting that there is a repeater on that freq, and they found out that the repeater freq belong to KA4DFX according to the coordinator that his permit expired two years ago, and they want the director of district 1 W4HN to contact KA4DFX to convince him to apply for a frequency coordination, but W4HN is blaming me, in his email he told me to listen before turning my repeater on because in HF if some one is having a QSO and you are calling cq,cq, I am interfering someone qso, but this repeater is quiet no qso no one knows there is a repeater, on that freq, its not listed on the new updated FRC website, to make this story short, I am not trying to step On somebody shoes, I just want to contact KA4DFX, to ask him a favor if it's possible for him to put a PL on his repeater, and I don't mind sharing the frequency with him. But looking at qrz he doesn't have an address just (P.O. Box) and no email address. I know it's not my job to contact him, if any one has any suggestion or advice please let me know, I am open for comments Thanks to all. 73 W4CSO Camilo
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination
Thank you much Mike. Camilo - Original Message - From: Mike Mullarkey To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 5:41 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination Camilo, We really should not clog the list with this since this is a repeater builders list. If you want to contact me off the list I would be more than happy in assisting you with any recommendations I may help with. Mike -- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Camilo So Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 3:37 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination Hi Mike, My problem is I can not use my repeater because I have PL , His don't have a PL every time I key up I am bringing up two repeater, its like I was being jams, He have the advantage, when he key up he only bring his up, because I have PL. and the worse problem is I am given two mouth to turn my repeater on or lost the frequency that is assigned to me. If I try to call him on his repeater there is no answer, Yes I have the official paperwork, and its easy if you go to http://florida-repeaters.org/ under repeater listing select 440 MHZ, then under DATABASE CHANGES look for 444.425 MHZ. The approved date is 10/05/08. Camilo W4CSO - Original Message - From: Mike Mullarkey To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 5:18 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination Camilo, The other guy that let his coordination expire is out of luck and needs to vacate the channel. Being a past chairman of the ORRC Oregon Region Relay Council. If the guy that has had the channel and not followed the buy laws of the FRC and filed update paperwork. Try to work with the other repeater operator and if he is not receptive to change. Assuming you have official paperwork in hand and a signed coordination. You can contact the NFCC and let them mediate for you or file official paperwork with the FCC and they will shut him down since he is not coordinated. Good Luck. Mike K7PFJ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Camilo So Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 2:49 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination Hi sorry for out of topic question, because most of the friend I have ask no one can give an answer or advice that is why I am turning to this group for help and advice, regarding.The pair of repeater frequency that I applied for, First I went to the FRC (Florida Repeater Council) website, and look for frequency that is not listed, and I did monitor the frequency (444.425 MHZ) for traffic or qso it's quiet,Then I applied for the freq. and it was approved by FRC, The problem is when I turn my Repeater on (with PL), I was bringing another repeater up on csq (carrier squelch). Then I send an email to the FRC reporting that there is a repeater on that freq, and they found out that the repeater freq belong to KA4DFX according to the coordinator that his permit expired two years ago, and they want the director of district 1 W4HN to contact KA4DFX to convince him to apply for a frequency coordination, but W4HN is blaming me, in his email he told me to listen before turning my repeater on because in HF if some one is having a QSO and you are calling cq,cq, I am interfering someone qso, but this repeater is quiet no qso no one knows there is a repeater, on that freq, its not listed on the new updated FRC website, to make this story short, I am not trying to step On somebody shoes, I just want to contact KA4DFX, to ask him a favor if it's possible for him to put a PL on his repeater, and I don't mind sharing the frequency with him. But looking at qrz he doesn't have an address just (P.O. Box) and no email address. I know it's not my job to contact him, if any one has any suggestion or advice please let me know, I am open for comments Thanks to all. 73 W4CSO Camilo
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination
Have the coordinator get you a different channel. Don't mess with the sharing idea. -- Original Message -- Received: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 01:50:27 PM PST From: Camilo So [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination Hi sorry for out of topic question, because most of the friend I have ask no one can give an answer or advice that is why I am turning to this group for help and advice, regarding.The pair of repeater frequency that I applied for, First I went to the FRC (Florida Repeater Council) website, and look for frequency that is not listed, and I did monitor the frequency (444.425 MHZ) for traffic or qso it's quiet,Then I applied for the freq. and it was approved by FRC, The problem is when I turn my Repeater on (with PL), I was bringing another repeater up on csq (carrier squelch). Then I send an email to the FRC reporting that there is a repeater on that freq, and they found out that the repeater freq belong to KA4DFX according to the coordinator that his permit expired two years ago, and they want the director of district 1 W4HN to contact KA4DFX to convince him to apply for a frequency coordination, but W4HN is blaming me, in his email he told me to listen before turning my repeater on because in HF if some one is having a QSO and you are calling cq,cq, I am interfering someone qso, but this repeater is quiet no qso no one knows there is a repeater, on that freq, its not listed on the new updated FRC website, to make this story short, I am not trying to step On somebody shoes, I just want to contact KA4DFX, to ask him a favor if it's possible for him to put a PL on his repeater, and I don't mind sharing the frequency with him. But looking at qrz he doesn't have an address just (P.O. Box) and no email address. I know it's not my job to contact him, if any one has any suggestion or advice please let me know, I am open for comments Thanks to all. 73 W4CSO Camilo
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination
Sorry Mike, I disagree. As you know,I spent about 10 years on the ORRC myself, several of those as the database manager. The other repeater was there first. The coordination council either (1) did not have an accurate database and/or (2) did not research it throughly. Even if the first repeater's coordination expired, the first repeater station was there first and still operating as originally coordinated. There is no legal requirement to coordinate repeaters, but the council did know about this individual. Camilo, I suggest find another frequency. -- Original Message -- Received: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 02:18:35 PM PST From: Mike Mullarkey [EMAIL PROTECTED] The other guy that let his coordination expire is out of luck and needs to vacate the channel. Being a past chairman of the ORRC Oregon Region Relay Council. If the guy that has had the channel and not followed the buy laws of the FRC and filed update paperwork. Try to work with the other repeater operator and if he is not receptive to change. Assuming you have official paperwork in hand and a signed coordination. You can contact the NFCC and let them mediate for you or file official paperwork with the FCC and they will shut him down since he is not coordinated. Good Luck.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination
If the other guy is smart he'll call the FCC first, as he was on the channel first. Coordination is not required, and the coordiation group should have suspected he was still there if the coordination had expired. LOTS off coordinations expire but the repeaters stay on the air. First, this 'call the FCC first' approach is exactly what we don't want to be doing. If you have listened to folks at the FCC level, particularly Riley Hollingsworth, he has been preaching for us to be 'self policing'. We need to get along and share the spectrum. If we are constantly whining to the FCC about things that we should be able to resolve ourselves, they won't be too sympathetic when it comes time to complain about things we can't resolve. What you have described is certainly not an FCC issue, it is a coordination issue. Second, while coordination is not required, it is expected. Much like the band plans, you can operate anywhere you want within the law...but if you are operating FM in the SSB weak signal portion, you can expect to not make friends, not be respected and generally create havoc. How do you avoid that? By coordinating, respecting the 'boundaries' and sharing the resources we have. In our database, we have many entries marked as 'info' only. Mr. Mackey can probably elaborate on these, as I believe he may still be involved in several un-coordinated systems. As such, we make the effort not to coordinate other stations on the same frequencies even though some prefer to not participate in the coordination process. Frankly, we are being polite and trying to share the spectrum and not cause an issue for any operators. That being said, as spectrum becomes harder to find for new applicants, and specifically in the light of new digital (GMSK, P25, etc.) modes which deserve a chance to operate, at some point we will have little choice but to coordinate new applicants in the spaces that are left. Some of those spaces may be occupied by folks who operate a repeater, but choose not to participate in coordination. As such, they have little protection from other users. The letters I have seen from the FCC regarding interference between coordinated and non coordinated repeaters clearly favors the coordinated repeater, and the FCC seems to ask the non-coordinated station to resolve the interference or cease operation. I don't get a chance to read all the enforcement letters, but if you have seen some that say something to the effect that the first guy to put up something on a frequency whether it is coordinated or not gets protection, and any new comer, coordinated or not, must solve the interference or cease operation I'd really love to read it. We have coordinated people on frequencies only to get a report back from them that it seems to be occupied, often by a non-coordinated station. As long as I have been on the board, I believe we have marked that information in our database, and found a new pair for the applicant to try. It is not the coordination groups responsibility to 'suspect the system is still operating even if the coordination has expired'. Conversely, it is the coordination holders responsibility to update their information with the coordinating body. In Oregon, the bylaws of the ORRC were voted on by all members (any repeater owner is eligible to be a member and be coordinated) and require the organization to de-coordinate users after 3 years of failure to update the status of their repeaters systems. We simply can't do what needs to be done if we do not have the current data, and we can't get the current data if we don't get the users to tell us what they're doing. My name is Daron Wilson, I am the chairman of the Oregon Region Relay Council, Inc. and I approve this message. 73
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination
HI John, Assuming that there area is like Denver and Portland that may be hard. If there is other channels available take one and if you have a repeater that used crystals make the FRC buck up and pay for the elements. Mike _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JOHN MACKEY Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 5:16 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination Have the coordinator get you a different channel. Don't mess with the sharing idea. -- Original Message -- Received: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 01:50:27 PM PST From: Camilo So [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:socamilo%40bellsouth.net net To: Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination Hi sorry for out of topic question, because most of the friend I have ask no one can give an answer or advice that is why I am turning to this group for help and advice, regarding.The pair of repeater frequency that I applied for, First I went to the FRC (Florida Repeater Council) website, and look for frequency that is not listed, and I did monitor the frequency (444.425 MHZ) for traffic or qso it's quiet,Then I applied for the freq. and it was approved by FRC, The problem is when I turn my Repeater on (with PL), I was bringing another repeater up on csq (carrier squelch). Then I send an email to the FRC reporting that there is a repeater on that freq, and they found out that the repeater freq belong to KA4DFX according to the coordinator that his permit expired two years ago, and they want the director of district 1 W4HN to contact KA4DFX to convince him to apply for a frequency coordination, but W4HN is blaming me, in his email he told me to listen before turning my repeater on because in HF if some one is having a QSO and you are calling cq,cq, I am interfering someone qso, but this repeater is quiet no qso no one knows there is a repeater, on that freq, its not listed on the new updated FRC website, to make this story short, I am not trying to step On somebody shoes, I just want to contact KA4DFX, to ask him a favor if it's possible for him to put a PL on his repeater, and I don't mind sharing the frequency with him. But looking at qrz he doesn't have an address just (P.O. Box) and no email address. I know it's not my job to contact him, if any one has any suggestion or advice please let me know, I am open for comments Thanks to all. 73 W4CSO Camilo
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination
HI John, I agree with to a point but the FCC will first ask the coordinating group witch repeater is coordinated. That is exactly what Bin would do and has done so in Oregon and Washington. If there is another channel available take it. Mike _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JOHN MACKEY Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 5:25 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination Sorry Mike, I disagree. As you know,I spent about 10 years on the ORRC myself, several of those as the database manager. The other repeater was there first. The coordination council either (1) did not have an accurate database and/or (2) did not research it throughly. Even if the first repeater's coordination expired, the first repeater station was there first and still operating as originally coordinated. There is no legal requirement to coordinate repeaters, but the council did know about this individual. Camilo, I suggest find another frequency. -- Original Message -- Received: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 02:18:35 PM PST From: Mike Mullarkey [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:k7pfj%40comcast.net net The other guy that let his coordination expire is out of luck and needs to vacate the channel. Being a past chairman of the ORRC Oregon Region Relay Council. If the guy that has had the channel and not followed the buy laws of the FRC and filed update paperwork. Try to work with the other repeater operator and if he is not receptive to change. Assuming you have official paperwork in hand and a signed coordination. You can contact the NFCC and let them mediate for you or file official paperwork with the FCC and they will shut him down since he is not coordinated. Good Luck.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination
If he calls the FCC, he will find he is SOL. Coordination is not required, but when one repeater is coordinated, and the other is not, the uncoordinated one must resolve the problem. That's in Part 97. It doesn't matter who was there first. Part 97 makes no reference to seniority. FRC's rules may say something on the matter, but the written FCC rules would trump (actually preempt) and local rules. Joe M. JOHN MACKEY wrote: If the other guy is smart he'll call the FCC first, as he was on the channel first. Coordination is not required, and the coordiation group should have suspected he was still there if the coordination had expired. LOTS off coordinations expire but the repeaters stay on the air. As a past database manager and board member of the Oregon Region Relay Council I can tell you this happens often. -- Original Message -- Received: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 02:28:15 PM PST From: MCH [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination If he is uncooperative, and uncoordinated, just call the FCC. That's about all you can do. You might mention this option to him and that may make him more receptive to acceptable solutions. Joe M. Camilo So wrote: Hi sorry for out of topic question, because most of the friend I have ask no one can give an answer or advice that is why I am turning to this group for help and advice, regarding.The pair of repeater frequency that I applied for, First I went to the FRC (Florida Repeater Council) website, and look for frequency that is not listed, and I did monitor the frequency (444.425 MHZ) for traffic or qso it’s quiet,Then I applied for the freq. and it was approved by FRC, The problem is when I turn my Repeater on (with PL), I was bringing another repeater up on csq (carrier squelch). Then I send an email to the FRC reporting that there is a repeater on that freq, and they found out that the repeater freq belong to KA4DFX according to the coordinator that his permit expired two years ago, and they want the director of district 1 W4HN to contact KA4DFX to convince him to apply for a frequency coordination, but W4HN is blaming me, in his email he told me to listen before turning my repeater on because in HF if some one is having a QSO and you are calling cq,cq, I am interfering someone qso, but this repeater is quiet no qso no one knows there is a repeater, on that freq, its not listed on the new updated FRC website, to make this story short, I am not trying to step On somebody shoes, I just want to contact KA4DFX, to ask him a favor if it’s possible for him to put a PL on his repeater, and I don’t mind sharing the frequency with him. But looking at qrz he doesn’t have an address just (P.O. Box) and no email address. I know it’s not my job to contact him, if any one has any suggestion or advice please let me know, I am open for comments Thanks to all. 73 W4CSO Camilo No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1760 - Release Date: 11/1/2008 9:36 AM Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination
And I will emphasize my previous point that you should call them ONLY after all other resolutions have been tried. But, if there is no acceptable alternative, you have the high road on the complaint. Joe M. Daron Wilson wrote: If the other guy is smart he'll call the FCC first, as he was on the channel first. Coordination is not required, and the coordiation group should have suspected he was still there if the coordination had expired. LOTS off coordinations expire but the repeaters stay on the air. First, this 'call the FCC first' approach is exactly what we don't want to be doing. If you have listened to folks at the FCC level, particularly Riley Hollingsworth, he has been preaching for us to be 'self policing'. We need to get along and share the spectrum.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination
First of all I want to apologize to the Moderator for bringing up a of topic on this group, most of all thank you to every one that reply specially Joe M. (MCH) this is the same shortcut my XYL is working at (Miami Children Hospital). Again thanks to all. 73 W4CSO Camilo - Original Message - From: MCH To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 9:54 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination And I will emphasize my previous point that you should call them ONLY after all other resolutions have been tried. But, if there is no acceptable alternative, you have the high road on the complaint. Joe M. Daron Wilson wrote: If the other guy is smart he'll call the FCC first, as he was on the channel first. Coordination is not required, and the coordiation group should have suspected he was still there if the coordination had expired. LOTS off coordinations expire but the repeaters stay on the air. First, this 'call the FCC first' approach is exactly what we don't want to be doing. If you have listened to folks at the FCC level, particularly Riley Hollingsworth, he has been preaching for us to be 'self policing'. We need to get along and share the spectrum.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination
Hi Mike! I'm in partial agreement with you also, but there is something wrong with a coordination council that coordinates a repeater on a freq that they knew already had a repeater on it - even if it is expired. -- Original Message -- Received: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 05:54:47 PM PST From: Mike Mullarkey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination HI John, I agree with to a point but the FCC will first ask the coordinating group witch repeater is coordinated. That is exactly what Bin would do and has done so in Oregon and Washington. If there is another channel available take it. Mike _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JOHN MACKEY Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 5:25 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination Sorry Mike, I disagree. As you know,I spent about 10 years on the ORRC myself, several of those as the database manager. The other repeater was there first. The coordination council either (1) did not have an accurate database and/or (2) did not research it throughly. Even if the first repeater's coordination expired, the first repeater station was there first and still operating as originally coordinated. There is no legal requirement to coordinate repeaters, but the council did know about this individual. Camilo, I suggest find another frequency. -- Original Message -- Received: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 02:18:35 PM PST From: Mike Mullarkey [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:k7pfj%40comcast.net net The other guy that let his coordination expire is out of luck and needs to vacate the channel. Being a past chairman of the ORRC Oregon Region Relay Council. If the guy that has had the channel and not followed the buy laws of the FRC and filed update paperwork. Try to work with the other repeater operator and if he is not receptive to change. Assuming you have official paperwork in hand and a signed coordination. You can contact the NFCC and let them mediate for you or file official paperwork with the FCC and they will shut him down since he is not coordinated. Good Luck.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination
Coordination is intended to avoid conflict. The coordination council coordinated another system where they knew a repeater had been operating without confirming it was no longer operational. -- Original Message -- Received: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 06:53:38 PM PST From: MCH [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination If he calls the FCC, he will find he is SOL. Coordination is not required, but when one repeater is coordinated, and the other is not, the uncoordinated one must resolve the problem. That's in Part 97. It doesn't matter who was there first. Part 97 makes no reference to seniority. FRC's rules may say something on the matter, but the written FCC rules would trump (actually preempt) and local rules. Joe M. JOHN MACKEY wrote: If the other guy is smart he'll call the FCC first, as he was on the channel first. Coordination is not required, and the coordiation group should have suspected he was still there if the coordination had expired. LOTS off coordinations expire but the repeaters stay on the air. As a past database manager and board member of the Oregon Region Relay Council I can tell you this happens often. -- Original Message -- Received: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 02:28:15 PM PST From: MCH [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination If he is uncooperative, and uncoordinated, just call the FCC. That's about all you can do. You might mention this option to him and that may make him more receptive to acceptable solutions. Joe M. Camilo So wrote: Hi sorry for out of topic question, because most of the friend I have ask no one can give an answer or advice that is why I am turning to this group for help and advice, regarding.The pair of repeater frequency that I applied for, First I went to the FRC (Florida Repeater Council) website, and look for frequency that is not listed, and I did monitor the frequency (444.425 MHZ) for traffic or qso it’s quiet,Then I applied for the freq. and it was approved by FRC, The problem is when I turn my Repeater on (with PL), I was bringing another repeater up on csq (carrier squelch). Then I send an email to the FRC reporting that there is a repeater on that freq, and they found out that the repeater freq belong to KA4DFX according to the coordinator that his permit expired two years ago, and they want the director of district 1 W4HN to contact KA4DFX to convince him to apply for a frequency coordination, but W4HN is blaming me, in his email he told me to listen before turning my repeater on because in HF if some one is having a QSO and you are calling cq,cq, I am interfering someone qso, but this repeater is quiet no qso no one knows there is a repeater, on that freq, its not listed on the new updated FRC website, to make this story short, I am not trying to step On somebody shoes, I just want to contact KA4DFX, to ask him a favor if it’s possible for him to put a PL on his repeater, and I don’t mind sharing the frequency with him. But looking at qrz he doesn’t have an address just (P.O. Box) and no email address. I know it’s not my job to contact him, if any one has any suggestion or advice please let me know, I am open for comments Thanks to all. 73 W4CSO Camilo No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1760 - Release Date: 11/1/2008 9:36 AM Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Repeater coordination
Daron - In a perfect world you would be correct. But unforunately amateur radio coordination is far from perfect. Regarding some of the systems that the ORRC believe are uncoordinated which I am affilated, that is because they do not recognize the 2 other coordinating bodies in Oregon. That is thier problem, not anyone elses. If the ORRC had been operating professionally and effectively, there would have no reason to start the other coordination bodies. -- Original Message -- Received: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 05:11:29 PM PST From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] First, this 'call the FCC first' approach is exactly what we don't want to be doing. If you have listened to folks at the FCC level, particularly Riley Hollingsworth, he has been preaching for us to be 'self policing'. We need to get along and share the spectrum. If we are constantly whining to the FCC about things that we should be able to resolve ourselves, they won't be too sympathetic when it comes time to complain about things we can't resolve. What you have described is certainly not an FCC issue, it is a coordination issue. Second, while coordination is not required, it is expected. Much like the band plans, you can operate anywhere you want within the law...but if you are operating FM in the SSB weak signal portion, you can expect to not make friends, not be respected and generally create havoc. How do you avoid that? By coordinating, respecting the 'boundaries' and sharing the resources we have. In our database, we have many entries marked as 'info' only. Mr. Mackey can probably elaborate on these, as I believe he may still be involved in several un-coordinated systems. As such, we make the effort not to coordinate other stations on the same frequencies even though some prefer to not participate in the coordination process. Frankly, we are being polite and trying to share the spectrum and not cause an issue for any operators. That being said, as spectrum becomes harder to find for new applicants, and specifically in the light of new digital (GMSK, P25, etc.) modes which deserve a chance to operate, at some point we will have little choice but to coordinate new applicants in the spaces that are left. Some of those spaces may be occupied by folks who operate a repeater, but choose not to participate in coordination. As such, they have little protection from other users. The letters I have seen from the FCC regarding interference between coordinated and non coordinated repeaters clearly favors the coordinated repeater, and the FCC seems to ask the non-coordinated station to resolve the interference or cease operation. I don't get a chance to read all the enforcement letters, but if you have seen some that say something to the effect that the first guy to put up something on a frequency whether it is coordinated or not gets protection, and any new comer, coordinated or not, must solve the interference or cease operation I'd really love to read it. We have coordinated people on frequencies only to get a report back from them that it seems to be occupied, often by a non-coordinated station. As long as I have been on the board, I believe we have marked that information in our database, and found a new pair for the applicant to try. It is not the coordination groups responsibility to 'suspect the system is still operating even if the coordination has expired'. Conversely, it is the coordination holders responsibility to update their information with the coordinating body. In Oregon, the bylaws of the ORRC were voted on by all members (any repeater owner is eligible to be a member and be coordinated) and require the organization to de-coordinate users after 3 years of failure to update the status of their repeaters systems. We simply can't do what needs to be done if we do not have the current data, and we can't get the current data if we don't get the users to tell us what they're doing. My name is Daron Wilson, I am the chairman of the Oregon Region Relay Council, Inc. and I approve this message. 73
