RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Need VHF MSR2000 Repeater help
Tom, Thanks for going into detail about the symptoms and your actions to date. This is instructive and very useful to all readers of this list. A few things came to light as I reviewed your findings and the information about what modules are in your stations. I see that both stations have 110 watt intermittent-duty PAs that are specified to operate over the 146-174 MHz range. However, the TFD6102A harmonic filter that is in both stations is specified for 150.8-174 MHz. Although you can retune this filter per Kevin's procedure on the RBTIP, try to find the TFD6101A filter if you want to operate on 2m; it specs at 132-150.8 MHz. The base station appears to have an oddball receiver. The GSB-B station should have a TRD6302A receiver, which is an unfiltered 10.7 MHz IF unit. Perhaps some tech put a TRD6182 fully-filtered unit in its place to correct a desense problem. You'd be surprised how many folks forget that this one filter can cause a low power output problem. In addition to having a lot of filtering components on the interconnect boards and in the duplex exciter, the repeater stations also have extra shielding plates. Even though some may pooh-pooh the idea, those plates should be installed with all screws in place for maximum shielding effectiveness. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of tomnevue Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 10:48 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Need VHF MSR2000 Repeater help Thanks for all the input. I have some information now and I hope I'll have the rest tomorrow. Repeater was at 155Mhz with a 700Khz split. It was fully operational at the time of removal, due to 800Mhz upgrade about 5 years ago. The Units were stored in an airconditioned/heated environment and were not touched my anyone until I received it. I confirmed that the repeater was fully operational before doing any Ham conversion. I did this by operating into a dummy load and using 2 HT's that were part of this system. The only thing done to the repeater for Ham conversion was retuning, moving the configuration jumpers needed and modifying the Squelch Gate card per Skipps article. All internal cabling is exactly as supplied by Motorola. The Sinclair Q202 (4 can) duplexer was aligned in a laboratory by someone who has experience doing this; notch slightly better than 90dB. This exciter has the added backplane filter plug assembly. The base unit was at approximately 155Mhz also. I moved jumpers as needed to look like the repeater. I got another SG card and made the same modification. The Rec / Trans cables are the same cables supplied by Motorola with TR switch removed and bulkhead connectors added. So, the Base looks just like the original repeater. The jumper cables from the repeater cabinet to the Duplexer is Milspec RG400 and no adapters are used. I tuned both units the same way (for the same frequency). For the exciter, I pre-adjusted the coils the amount estimated by the graphs from the starting freq (155 MHz). The final adjustment is 147.120/147.720MHz. I built a test meter and followed the step by step instructions to tune the RF circuits. I netted the crystal. I did not make any adjustment to the modulation at this point. I did make receiver / repeater audio level comparisons and the 2 are very close. I did not make any adjustments to the PA except to turn down the power to 50 watts. The 2M power out was approximately the same as it was at 155MHz. I tuned both receivers by presetting the coils the appropriate amount from the starting frequency of 155MHz. Then again I followed the tune up procedures in the manual. The signal source was a well shielded low power HT into a dummy load. The starting points for tuning both the receiver and transmitter were very close to the final settings. I am testing the 2 repeaters by swapping 1 set of receive/transmit elements. When the transmitter power is turned up above 4 watts into either a separate antenna or the duplexer or combinations of duplexer/separate antennas the receiver is badly desensed, the repeater randomly hangs and sometimes makes a loud growl sound when dropped. With the transmitter turned down to about 4 watts (into the Duplexer) or 50 watts into a dummy load (at the cabinet) the receiver sensitivity is about what I expected (receives weak signals). So, it's a fine operating 4 watt repeater. I tested the 2 units with a 3rd unmodified SG card and had the same problem. Tomorrow I'll put a different transmitter and receiver thru the duplexer and see if the receiver experiences desensing. Of course these will not be connected as a repeater. I guess after that I'll have to see if I can get help from someone with a spectrum analyzer or station monitor. Have I missed anything?? MODEL NUMBERS: Repeater - C73GSB3105AT, Transmitter ABZ89FC3
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Need VHF MSR2000 Repeater help (ahhhh! LMR-400 again)
On 4/24/07, tomnevue <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > the repeater randomly hangs and sometimes makes a loud growl > > > sound when dropped. > > > > "doesn't know the words" > > WHEN ht STOPS SENDING, REPEATER SHOULD DROP BUT IT RANDOMLY HANGS > (ON), THEN DROPS, AND OCCASIONALLY GOES BACK INTO TRANSMIT WITHOUT > THE ht. SOMETIMES THIS DROP AND RESTART IS ACCOMPANIED BY A LOUD > GROWL SOUND IN THE AUDIO. I'M FIGURING THIS IS SOME KIND OF RF > LEAKAGE BACK INTO THE RECEIVER OR FOR SURE THE AUDIO PATH. THIS > CONDITION EXISTS WITH / WITHOUT A CONTROLLER AND ALSO WITH THE > UNMODIFIED SG CARD. Sounds an awful lot like a mix... Can you turn of CTCSS encode (transmitted) if you're using it for CTCSS "squelch" (receiver) and see if the repeater still does it? This will help you determine if the repeater is hearing itself or something else. Nate WY0X
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Need VHF MSR2000 Repeater help (ahhhh! LMR-400 again)
THANKS FOR THE REPLY. PLEASE SEE MY NOTES (CAPITALIZED). --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "skipp025" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > "tomnevue" wrote: > > Thanks for all the input. I have some information now > > and I hope I'll have the rest tomorrow. > > Great... "you've got questions..? We've got answers..." Where have > I heard that before? > > [major text edit (for sanity)] > > Repeater was at 155Mhz with a 700Khz split. I confirmed that the > > repeater was fully operational before doing any Ham conversion. > > excellente' > > > I did this by operating into a dummy load and using 2 HT's that > > were part of this system. > > Well... not the test I had in mind but what the heck. Onward... > > > The only thing done to the repeater for Ham conversion was > > retuning, moving the configuration jumpers needed and > > modifying the Squelch Gate card per Skipps article. All internal > > cabling is exactly as supplied by Motorola. > > He's a trouble maker... I know him well. > > > The Sinclair Q202 (4 can) duplexer was aligned in a laboratory by > > someone who has experience doing this; notch slightly better than > > 90dB. This exciter has the added backplane filter plug assembly. > > Per my previous post... I'd park the duplexer and service only the > repeater until you find the problems. You also mention going from > an original 700KHz repeater offset to an Amateur (2 meter band) 600KHz > offset. Are you using the same duplexer? SAME DUPLEXER. I'LL PARK IT AND KEEP WORKING ON THE REPEATER UNIT. > > > The base unit was at approximately 155Mhz also. I moved jumpers as > > needed to look like the repeater. I got another SG card and made the > > same modification. > > You should keep one Squelch Gate Module Stock until you get one > repeater station working as normal. Just keeps your sanity to have a > known original/standard for benchmark testing. YUP. THAT'S WHY IT'S UNTOUCHED. > > > The Rec / Trans cables are the same cables supplied by Motorola > > with TR switch removed and bulkhead connectors added. So, the Base > > looks just like the original repeater. > > No it is not..! There are a number of different tr relay cables used > and they don't full duplex well without some bit of caution. Is your > rx cable a small white only cable direct to the output jack and is > that jack cable connection sealed 100% with a rear mounted SO-239 > jack "coax hood"? I HAVE NOT TOUCHED THE CABLES ON THE ORIGINAL MOTO REPEATER UNIT. THE RX CABLE IS SMALL WHITE AND THE TX CABLE IS BROWN. BOTH GOING TO SO239 WITH RF SEALED BACK. THE CABLES ON THE MODIFIED BASE HAVE THE TR SWITCH REMOVED AND MOUNTED TO S0239 WITH RF SEALED BACK. THESE ARE SMALL WHITE, WITH THE TX CABLE BEING SLIGHTLY LARGER. > > The PA output cable should be Brown RG-393/400U or similar type > teflon coaxial cable. Unless you have the luxury of some semi small > rigid coax (hard line) you can use. If you're using the white relay > coax in the repeater tx line... part of your problem is leakage to > & from the small white coax. OK THIS COULD BE A FACTOR IN THE MODIFIED BASE BUT THE REPEATER AND MODIFIED BASE EXHIBIT THE SAME OPERATIONAL PROBLEM. > > > The jumper cables from the repeater cabinet to the Duplexer is > > Milspec RG400 and no adapters are used. > > Ahhh! TAKE THE LMR-400 COAX AND THROW IT AWAY! Replace it > with some RG-214 (mil spec type). NO NO NO NOT LMR-400. RG-400U MIL SPEC,DOUBLE SILVER BRAID, TEFLON DIELECTRIC, BROWN JACKET. 4 FT FOR EACH JUMPER. > > One item to note... If you were testing all this with just the > repeater first (no duplexer per my post). You would not have to > worry about the LMR-400 hosing up the works until you later > confirmed the repeater is working normally. > > Once again... TAKE THE LMR-400 COAX AND THROW IT IN THE TRASH! > > > I pre-adjusted the coils the amount estimated by the graphs > > excellente' > > > I built a test meter and followed the step by step instructions > > to tune the RF circuits. > > I really don't what to mess up a good thing... but the metering > point values displayed by the original 50uA meter movement (test > box) will actually be slightly different from the same test point > when using a Multi Meter. Just something to know... BUILT THE METER BOX AS DESCRIBED IN THE MANUAL; 50uA METER MOVEMENT, MULTIPOSITION SWITCH, PLUG CONSTRUCTED FROM SOCKET (WITH BRASS PINS ADDED) SALVAGED FROM OLD MOTO MOBILE UNIT. > > > I netted the crystal. > > Smell like fish? just kidding... TOO SMALL TO GRAB WITH MY BARE HANDS; HAD TO NET. (hihi). > > > I did not make any adjustment to the modulation at this point. > > If the repeater has the original ctcss "pl" module/card in place > you need only confirm the transmit ctcss level is about 700KHz and > you can consider the tx channel element IDC value is pretty close > to where it should be for normal voice operation.
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Need VHF MSR2000 Repeater help
Sounds more and more like the duplexer is not tuned as well as you were led to believe. Use two 2m ham rigs, one as a rx and one as a tx, into the duplexer, and let us know the results. I've also seen cans that looked good on a tracking generator but then worked horribly once on the antenna at the site due to a bad jumper to the antenna feedline. Once I even had a bad N-UHF adapter that was causing horrible desense. That adapter now resides some 100m into the woods behind the site! If a bad connection after the duplexer changes the impedance far from 50 ohms, it may affect the operation of the duplexer. Eric KE2D --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "tomnevue" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Thanks for all the input. I have some information now and I hope I'll > have the rest tomorrow. > > Repeater was at 155Mhz with a 700Khz split. It was fully operational > at the time of removal, due to 800Mhz upgrade about 5 years ago. The > Units were stored in an airconditioned/heated environment and were > not touched my anyone until I received it. I confirmed that the > repeater was fully operational before doing any Ham conversion. I did > this by operating into a dummy load and using 2 HT's that were part > of this system. The only thing done to the repeater for Ham > conversion was retuning, moving the configuration jumpers needed and > modifying the Squelch Gate card per Skipps article. All internal > cabling is exactly as supplied by Motorola. The Sinclair Q202 (4 can) > duplexer was aligned in a laboratory by someone who has experience > doing this; notch slightly better than 90dB. This exciter has the > added backplane filter plug assembly. > > The base unit was at approximately 155Mhz also. I moved jumpers as > needed to look like the repeater. I got another SG card and made the > same modification. The Rec / Trans cables are the same cables > supplied by Motorola with TR switch removed and bulkhead connectors > added. So, the Base looks just like the original repeater. > > The jumper cables from the repeater cabinet to the Duplexer is > Milspec RG400 and no adapters are used. > > I tuned both units the same way (for the same frequency). For the > exciter, I pre-adjusted the coils the amount estimated by the graphs > from the starting freq (155 MHz). The final adjustment is > 147.120/147.720MHz. I built a test meter and followed the step by > step instructions to tune the RF circuits. I netted the crystal. I > did not make any adjustment to the modulation at this point. I did > make receiver / repeater audio level comparisons and the 2 are very > close. I did not make any adjustments to the PA except to turn down > the power to 50 watts. The 2M power out was approximately the same as > it was at 155MHz. > > I tuned both receivers by presetting the coils the appropriate amount > from the starting frequency of 155MHz. Then again I followed the tune > up procedures in the manual. The signal source was a well shielded > low power HT into a dummy load. > > The starting points for tuning both the receiver and transmitter were > very close to the final settings. > > I am testing the 2 repeaters by swapping 1 set of receive/transmit > elements. > > When the transmitter power is turned up above 4 watts into either a > separate antenna or the duplexer or combinations of duplexer/separate > antennas the receiver is badly desensed, the repeater randomly hangs > and sometimes makes a loud growl sound when dropped. With the > transmitter turned down to about 4 watts (into the Duplexer) or 50 > watts into a dummy load (at the cabinet) the receiver sensitivity is > about what I expected (receives weak signals). So, it's a fine > operating 4 watt repeater. > > I tested the 2 units with a 3rd unmodified SG card and had the same > problem. > > Tomorrow I'll put a different transmitter and receiver thru the > duplexer and see if the receiver experiences desensing. Of course > these will not be connected as a repeater. I guess after that I'll > have to see if I can get help from someone with a spectrum analyzer > or station monitor. > > Have I missed anything?? > > MODEL NUMBERS: > Repeater - C73GSB3105AT, Transmitter ABZ89FC3632, Receiver > ABZ89FR3633, Receive unit TRD6182APR, Exciter TLD9242C, PA TLD2532A > > Base - C73GSB3105B, Transmitter ABZ89FC3632, Receiver ABZ89FR3633, > Receive unit TRD6182A, Exciter TLD9232B, PA TLD2532A > > > Tom W2MN >
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Need VHF MSR2000 Repeater help (ahhhh! LMR-400 again)
As we heard on vintage Saturday Night Live shows... "Never Mind..." See what happens when you switch to decafe... If the coax you are using is RG-400 well then... probably not a major problem source. But never say never about pretty much anything. If the coax is LMR-400... then trash it and replace it with RG-214 mil spec coax. RG-214 mil spec is one of the better types of coax to use as repeater to duplexer jumpers... short of using "flexible hard line" (yeah, yeah oxy moron time). cheers, skipp *back to my face in the soup bowl & thanks Dwayne... > > The jumper cables from the repeater cabinet to the Duplexer is > > Milspec RG400 and no adapters are used. > > Ahhh! TAKE THE LMR-400 COAX AND THROW IT AWAY! Replace it > with some RG-214 (mil spec type). >
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Need VHF MSR2000 Repeater help (ahhhh! LMR-400 again)
At 08:37 AM 4/24/2007, you wrote: >Great... "you've got questions..? We've got answers..." Where have >I heard that before? <-I walked into a Radio Joke store during the height of that particular ad campaign and the sales clerk actually parroted the slogan to me. The conversation went like this: Clerk "Welcome to Radio Shack where you have questions and we have answers" Me "Great! How much extra for the right answers?" Clerk "U.. ummmerr" Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of the world famous RC210 Repeater Controller and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Coming soon - the most advanced repeater controller EVER. Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Need VHF MSR2000 Repeater help - More MSR-2000 PA war stories
More MSR-2000 PA war stories One other cute little MSR PA Section tidbit I didn't think to mention. Depending on which PA version and Model you have there... If the PA was ever operated into a reflective load without proper circulator - isolator type protection... then you can "assume" the PA Harmonic filter probably got hot. In some cases hot enough that parts at high current points desolder themselves quite easily. So... I make it a point to check every PA Harmonic Filter Section before placing a refurbished repeater back into service. Many times I've found the Harmonic Filter Caps and parts just kind of floating loose inside the shield/cover. ... and found the power output to be semi normal (the expected value). In the UHF 110 watt pa's there are two versions.. the early version was a real problem child, while the "B" version PA's with the second series harmonic filter networks were much more stable and sane. If owners/ops would read the manual and make sure the power controls (level, voltage and current limit) are properly set you can sometimes prevent harmonic filter damage. Back in days of old... when we set up new MSR Repeaters... the first thing we did was to reduce the output power by at least 1/3. life goes on... cheers, s.
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Need VHF MSR2000 Repeater help (ahhhh! LMR-400 again)
> "tomnevue" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Thanks for all the input. I have some information now > and I hope I'll have the rest tomorrow. Great... "you've got questions..? We've got answers..." Where have I heard that before? [major text edit (for sanity)] > Repeater was at 155Mhz with a 700Khz split. I confirmed that the > repeater was fully operational before doing any Ham conversion. excellente' > I did this by operating into a dummy load and using 2 HT's that > were part of this system. Well... not the test I had in mind but what the heck. Onward... > The only thing done to the repeater for Ham conversion was > retuning, moving the configuration jumpers needed and > modifying the Squelch Gate card per Skipps article. All internal > cabling is exactly as supplied by Motorola. He's a trouble maker... I know him well. > The Sinclair Q202 (4 can) duplexer was aligned in a laboratory by > someone who has experience doing this; notch slightly better than > 90dB. This exciter has the added backplane filter plug assembly. Per my previous post... I'd park the duplexer and service only the repeater until you find the problems. You also mention going from an original 700KHz repeater offset to an Amateur (2 meter band) 600KHz offset. Are you using the same duplexer? > The base unit was at approximately 155Mhz also. I moved jumpers as > needed to look like the repeater. I got another SG card and made the > same modification. You should keep one Squelch Gate Module Stock until you get one repeater station working as normal. Just keeps your sanity to have a known original/standard for benchmark testing. > The Rec / Trans cables are the same cables supplied by Motorola > with TR switch removed and bulkhead connectors added. So, the Base > looks just like the original repeater. No it is not..! There are a number of different tr relay cables used and they don't full duplex well without some bit of caution. Is your rx cable a small white only cable direct to the output jack and is that jack cable connection sealed 100% with a rear mounted SO-239 jack "coax hood"? The PA output cable should be Brown RG-393/400U or similar type teflon coaxial cable. Unless you have the luxury of some semi small rigid coax (hard line) you can use. If you're using the white relay coax in the repeater tx line... part of your problem is leakage to & from the small white coax. > The jumper cables from the repeater cabinet to the Duplexer is > Milspec RG400 and no adapters are used. Ahhh! TAKE THE LMR-400 COAX AND THROW IT AWAY! Replace it with some RG-214 (mil spec type). One item to note... If you were testing all this with just the repeater first (no duplexer per my post). You would not have to worry about the LMR-400 hosing up the works until you later confirmed the repeater is working normally. Once again... TAKE THE LMR-400 COAX AND THROW IT IN THE TRASH! > I pre-adjusted the coils the amount estimated by the graphs excellente' > I built a test meter and followed the step by step instructions > to tune the RF circuits. I really don't what to mess up a good thing... but the metering point values displayed by the original 50uA meter movement (test box) will actually be slightly different from the same test point when using a Multi Meter. Just something to know... > I netted the crystal. Smell like fish? just kidding... > I did not make any adjustment to the modulation at this point. If the repeater has the original ctcss "pl" module/card in place you need only confirm the transmit ctcss level is about 700KHz and you can consider the tx channel element IDC value is pretty close to where it should be for normal voice operation. > The starting points for tuning both the receiver and > transmitter were very close to the final settings. Should be... although some of the metering point dips and peaks are really, really small in value. You have to be watching the test point meter locations with a quality meter and a bright light to make sure you reach the right coil positions/locations. > When the transmitter power is turned up above 4 watts into either > a separate antenna or the duplexer or combinations of duplexer > separate antennas the receiver is badly desensed, You should have the pa output parked into a termination (load) for most all this early testing. > the repeater randomly hangs and sometimes makes a loud growl > sound when dropped. "doesn't know the words" > I tested the 2 units with a 3rd unmodified SG card and had > the same problem. Helps isolate the mod as being a source of the problem(s). > Have I missed anything?? Yeah... a bit. Trash the LMR-400 Cable. Per my first post... take the repeater pa output direct from the pa to your termination/load for testing. also get rid of (replace) the hacked and soldered tr/relay coax cables. Make 100% sure your cabinet side mounted SO-239 jacks have the pr
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Need VHF MSR2000 Repeater help
Thanks for all the input. I have some information now and I hope I'll have the rest tomorrow. Repeater was at 155Mhz with a 700Khz split. It was fully operational at the time of removal, due to 800Mhz upgrade about 5 years ago. The Units were stored in an airconditioned/heated environment and were not touched my anyone until I received it. I confirmed that the repeater was fully operational before doing any Ham conversion. I did this by operating into a dummy load and using 2 HT's that were part of this system. The only thing done to the repeater for Ham conversion was retuning, moving the configuration jumpers needed and modifying the Squelch Gate card per Skipps article. All internal cabling is exactly as supplied by Motorola. The Sinclair Q202 (4 can) duplexer was aligned in a laboratory by someone who has experience doing this; notch slightly better than 90dB. This exciter has the added backplane filter plug assembly. The base unit was at approximately 155Mhz also. I moved jumpers as needed to look like the repeater. I got another SG card and made the same modification. The Rec / Trans cables are the same cables supplied by Motorola with TR switch removed and bulkhead connectors added. So, the Base looks just like the original repeater. The jumper cables from the repeater cabinet to the Duplexer is Milspec RG400 and no adapters are used. I tuned both units the same way (for the same frequency). For the exciter, I pre-adjusted the coils the amount estimated by the graphs from the starting freq (155 MHz). The final adjustment is 147.120/147.720MHz. I built a test meter and followed the step by step instructions to tune the RF circuits. I netted the crystal. I did not make any adjustment to the modulation at this point. I did make receiver / repeater audio level comparisons and the 2 are very close. I did not make any adjustments to the PA except to turn down the power to 50 watts. The 2M power out was approximately the same as it was at 155MHz. I tuned both receivers by presetting the coils the appropriate amount from the starting frequency of 155MHz. Then again I followed the tune up procedures in the manual. The signal source was a well shielded low power HT into a dummy load. The starting points for tuning both the receiver and transmitter were very close to the final settings. I am testing the 2 repeaters by swapping 1 set of receive/transmit elements. When the transmitter power is turned up above 4 watts into either a separate antenna or the duplexer or combinations of duplexer/separate antennas the receiver is badly desensed, the repeater randomly hangs and sometimes makes a loud growl sound when dropped. With the transmitter turned down to about 4 watts (into the Duplexer) or 50 watts into a dummy load (at the cabinet) the receiver sensitivity is about what I expected (receives weak signals). So, it's a fine operating 4 watt repeater. I tested the 2 units with a 3rd unmodified SG card and had the same problem. Tomorrow I'll put a different transmitter and receiver thru the duplexer and see if the receiver experiences desensing. Of course these will not be connected as a repeater. I guess after that I'll have to see if I can get help from someone with a spectrum analyzer or station monitor. Have I missed anything?? MODEL NUMBERS: Repeater - C73GSB3105AT, Transmitter ABZ89FC3632, Receiver ABZ89FR3633, Receive unit TRD6182APR, Exciter TLD9242C, PA TLD2532A Base - C73GSB3105B, Transmitter ABZ89FC3632, Receiver ABZ89FR3633, Receive unit TRD6182A, Exciter TLD9232B, PA TLD2532A Tom W2MN
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Need VHF MSR2000 Repeater help
- Original Message - From: "kk2ed" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 8:53 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Need VHF MSR2000 Repeater help I have a bunch of MSR2000s here. I know the Canadian version was offered as a 132-150 version, but the USA versions I have here are rated 146-174MHz. I know the Micors are band-split for VHF, but from what I read in the MSR manuals, I think there is only one 146-174 slpit MSR, no? I have a number of 146-174 MSRs that I brought down from 158-160 range down to 146.xxx for ham repeaters, and they all worked flawlessly. Both, original base units converted to repeaters, as well as original repeaters. Even at high RF sites. I've never had an issue with a base station (which lacks the additional i/o filter daughtherboard present in the repeater versions). Sounds like either a mistuned exciter which is generating a lot of white noise close to the rx freq, or a mistuned oscillator/multiplier in the receiver. I've seen this happen on Mitreks before. I'm guessing you removed the original audio and keying paths on the Squelch Gate card before adding the NHRC controllers? Eric KE2D --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Lemmon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Tom, > > The VHF MSR2000 stations generally come in one of three splits: 132-150.8, > 150.8-162, and 162-174 MHz. Some of the symptoms you describe result from > operating the exciter, harmonic filter, and PA outside of the band they were > made for. > > What modifications were done to move them from the commercial band to 2m? > What are the numbers stamped on the transmitter components? > > 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY > > > -Original Message- > From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of tomnevue > Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 3:25 PM > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Need VHF MSR2000 Repeater help > > I have 2 VHF MSR2000 Repeaters that I'm building up at the same > time. Both units have the same problem and I'm hoping someone with > MSR2000 experience can give me a suggestion on where to look next. > > I'm having a terrible time with receiver desensing, transmitter > hanging on and audio oscillations (intermittent/random growling). > I've been thru separate antennas, duplexer with better than 90dB > notch, separate antenna with duplexer + extra cavity. If I run the > duplexer antenna port into a dummy load, the problem is less but > still there. If I run the transmitter port directly into a dummy load > or if I turn the PA power down to about 4 watts (with > duplexer/antenna connected)the problem is gone. I've replaced the > repeater/duplexer jumpers with good double shielded coax and ground > strapped the repeater/duplexer cabinet together. I've made sure all > of the original repeater panels are in place. The problems exist with > the controller in place and also with a test connector replacing it. > > One of these was a full working repeater in public service use and > the other was a convertable base station. Both have the 110watt PA > that I am running at 50 watts. The controllers are NHRC-2 connected > to the Squelch Gate card using the procedure described by Skipp May. > The 12 inch interconnecting cables use shielded audio in/out cables > and COS/PTT wires are not shielded. The controllers are enclosed in > aluminum boxes. > > HELP !!! > > Tom W2MN > Yahoo! Groups Links -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.463 / Virus Database: 269.5.7/771 - Release Date: 4/21/2007 11:56 AM Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Need VHF MSR2000 Repeater help
I have a bunch of MSR2000s here. I know the Canadian version was offered as a 132-150 version, but the USA versions I have here are rated 146-174MHz. I know the Micors are band-split for VHF, but from what I read in the MSR manuals, I think there is only one 146-174 slpit MSR, no? I have a number of 146-174 MSRs that I brought down from 158-160 range down to 146.xxx for ham repeaters, and they all worked flawlessly. Both, original base units converted to repeaters, as well as original repeaters. Even at high RF sites. I've never had an issue with a base station (which lacks the additional i/o filter daughtherboard present in the repeater versions). Sounds like either a mistuned exciter which is generating a lot of white noise close to the rx freq, or a mistuned oscillator/multiplier in the receiver. I've seen this happen on Mitreks before. I'm guessing you removed the original audio and keying paths on the Squelch Gate card before adding the NHRC controllers? Eric KE2D --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Lemmon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Tom, > > The VHF MSR2000 stations generally come in one of three splits: 132-150.8, > 150.8-162, and 162-174 MHz. Some of the symptoms you describe result from > operating the exciter, harmonic filter, and PA outside of the band they were > made for. > > What modifications were done to move them from the commercial band to 2m? > What are the numbers stamped on the transmitter components? > > 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY > > > -Original Message- > From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of tomnevue > Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 3:25 PM > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Need VHF MSR2000 Repeater help > > I have 2 VHF MSR2000 Repeaters that I'm building up at the same > time. Both units have the same problem and I'm hoping someone with > MSR2000 experience can give me a suggestion on where to look next. > > I'm having a terrible time with receiver desensing, transmitter > hanging on and audio oscillations (intermittent/random growling). > I've been thru separate antennas, duplexer with better than 90dB > notch, separate antenna with duplexer + extra cavity. If I run the > duplexer antenna port into a dummy load, the problem is less but > still there. If I run the transmitter port directly into a dummy load > or if I turn the PA power down to about 4 watts (with > duplexer/antenna connected)the problem is gone. I've replaced the > repeater/duplexer jumpers with good double shielded coax and ground > strapped the repeater/duplexer cabinet together. I've made sure all > of the original repeater panels are in place. The problems exist with > the controller in place and also with a test connector replacing it. > > One of these was a full working repeater in public service use and > the other was a convertable base station. Both have the 110watt PA > that I am running at 50 watts. The controllers are NHRC-2 connected > to the Squelch Gate card using the procedure described by Skipp May. > The 12 inch interconnecting cables use shielded audio in/out cables > and COS/PTT wires are not shielded. The controllers are enclosed in > aluminum boxes. > > HELP !!! > > Tom W2MN >
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Need VHF MSR2000 Repeater help
Right at the start of my conversion information I mention you should begin with the repeater working well at the original frequency. I probably should include the advice to do the frequency conversion first before you do my or anyone's modification. Just so you know you are not fighting multiple gremlins. Per the post by Eric... it's probably a good idea that you supply the Model number(s). The printed model numbers direct off the Receiver and Transmitter Modules as well as the RF Amplifier. The cabinet model number is pretty much a must have to know the entire package. Another thought... when you moved the rf units down to the ham band... did you realign them from their last positions or did you start the realignment after placing the coils at the manual chart position (yeah it does make a difference)? If you did my mod with the DB-9 type jack option... you could easily make a matching plug to restore the unit to near stock operation while you figure out what's going on. Sometimes you find receivers and transmitter strips without the duplex filter networks on/near the tx/rx module end connectors. But I've run both the duplex and base station (only) tx/rx modules as repeaters with nary a squawk. Also... with your PA output reduced... cable direct from the PA output jack (not the cabinet jack) direct to a termination (load) while you're testing. Do you have the problem when going direct from the pa output to a termination (not using the cabinet internal duplex cables)? During conversion mods... people often tie wrap cables in a bunch to make a clean install. Combined tx/rx coax cables are often a potential source of trouble. What kind of coax did you use to make the in cabinet rf cables? skipp > "tomnevue" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I have 2 VHF MSR2000 Repeaters that I'm building up at the same > time. Both units have the same problem and I'm hoping someone with > MSR2000 experience can give me a suggestion on where to look next. > > I'm having a terrible time with receiver desensing, transmitter > hanging on and audio oscillations (intermittent/random growling). > I've been thru separate antennas, duplexer with better than 90dB > notch, separate antenna with duplexer + extra cavity. If I run the > duplexer antenna port into a dummy load, the problem is less but > still there. If I run the transmitter port directly into a dummy load > or if I turn the PA power down to about 4 watts (with > duplexer/antenna connected)the problem is gone. I've replaced the > repeater/duplexer jumpers with good double shielded coax and ground > strapped the repeater/duplexer cabinet together. I've made sure all > of the original repeater panels are in place. The problems exist with > the controller in place and also with a test connector replacing it. > > One of these was a full working repeater in public service use and > the other was a convertable base station. Both have the 110watt PA > that I am running at 50 watts. The controllers are NHRC-2 connected > to the Squelch Gate card using the procedure described by Skipp May. > The 12 inch interconnecting cables use shielded audio in/out cables > and COS/PTT wires are not shielded. The controllers are enclosed in > aluminum boxes. > > HELP !!! > Tom W2MN >
