[Repeater-Builder] Re: building a repeater out of 2 Kenwood TK-830G's

[skipp025]

> "briansoehl"  wrote:
> First of all Thanks Tony and Steve.  The radios are rated 
> at "35W adjustable to 5W" I plan to run them at about 20W, 
> and they aren't going to exceed about 30 to 40% duty cycle.  
> So the PAs should be fine.  

They'd easily be fine at 35 watts, especially at that duty 
cycle but by all means use what you feel comfortable with. 

> AS far as a duplexer, it's already installed and tuned in 
> the repeater I'm replacing.  
> 
> I guess what I'm looking for is any method of connecting the 
> receiver to the transmitter.  The detect signal output (RX 
> acc plug pin 4) is at 400mV/47Kohms, and the Mic input on the 
> transmitter is 5mV/3KHz dev. 600ohm (TX acc plug pin 5).  
> And also is there a way to get an active low out of the 
> receiver when the programmed freq and tone pair is decoded 
> (to use as PTT on the TX).  Hopefully a simple, durable and 
> effective method has been done already.  That way I don't 
> have to reinvent the wheel.

You'd do well to have an external controller but it's not 
required. You could email me direct and I'll provide you with 
some additional connection information. 

> Otherwise I may have to use an external repeater control 
> panel, like a Zetron.
> Brian

Doesn't have to bet that expensive and complicated... 
s. 

> --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, KT9AC  wrote:
> >
> > Brian,
> > I agree with Steve, but as a side note if you can run the mobiles at 
> > their lowest rated *power* and use an external PA and fans, it should be 
> > ok. Rated power for example means a 10-25W model run at 10W (since below 
> > that it might induce problems). I have two Motorola GM300 1-10W radios 
> > (M04 models) feeding an external PA and they run cool at 2W for an hour 
> > easily.
> > 
> > Depending also on where you plan to install you will most likely need an 
> > appropriate duplexer or bandpass filters.
> > 
> > Good luck!! Its great to build repeaters from an idea, as long as you 
> > use good engineering practices and don't be cheap on what counts.
> > 
> > Tony
> > 
> > Steve wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi
> > > I assume they are mobiles and as such you will have to watch
> > > the tx pa or it will cook, rx wise no problem.
> > > Dosn't matter if they were made for PS use they were, like
> > > most mobiles only intended for limited tx times..
> > >
> > > Steve
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "briansoehl"  > > >
> > > To:  > > >
> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 5:23 PM
> > > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] building a repeater out of 2 Kenwood TK-830G's
> > >
> > > > Has anyone built a repeater out of 2 TK-830G's? I have 2 and want to
> > > > build a repeater to replace one. These are "high spec" radios designed
> > > > for use in public safety and I feel they'd make a good repeater.
> > > >
> > > > Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > Brian
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >  - - --
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

[Repeater-Builder] Re: building a repeater out of 2 Kenwood TK-830G's

[skipp025]

> I absolutely would NOT run a x30 at 100W out continuous! Even 
> with air on it. 

Well, to each his own. I wasn't the first one to use mobile 
RF Decks in repeater operation.  

> The high power unit should not be run more then abt 30-40 W, 
> and the low power unit should not be run at more than 20-25 
> for repeater use...

I'll let you know if and when any of the units I use pretty much 
each day fail... so far so good after many years of regular daily 
high power operation. 

s. 

[Repeater-Builder] Re: building a repeater out of 2 Kenwood TK-830G's

[briansoehl]

First of all Thanks Tony and Steve.  The radios are rated at "35W adjustable to 
5W" I plan to run them at about 20W, and they aren't going to exceed about 30 
to 40% duty cycle.  So the PAs should be fine.  

AS far as a duplexer, it's already installed and tuned in the repeater I'm 
replacing.  

I guess what I'm looking for is any method of connecting the receiver to the 
transmitter.  The detect signal output (RX acc plug pin 4) is at 400mV/47Kohms, 
and the Mic input on the transmitter is 5mV/3KHz dev. 600ohm (TX acc plug pin 
5).  And also is there a way to get an active low out of the receiver when the 
programmed freq and tone pair is decoded (to use as PTT on the TX).  Hopefully 
a simple, durable and effective method has been done already.  That way I don't 
have to reinvent the wheel.

Otherwise I may have to use an external repeater control panel, like a Zetron.

Brian

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, KT9AC  wrote:
>
> Brian,
> I agree with Steve, but as a side note if you can run the mobiles at 
> their lowest rated *power* and use an external PA and fans, it should be 
> ok. Rated power for example means a 10-25W model run at 10W (since below 
> that it might induce problems). I have two Motorola GM300 1-10W radios 
> (M04 models) feeding an external PA and they run cool at 2W for an hour 
> easily.
> 
> Depending also on where you plan to install you will most likely need an 
> appropriate duplexer or bandpass filters.
> 
> Good luck!! Its great to build repeaters from an idea, as long as you 
> use good engineering practices and don't be cheap on what counts.
> 
> Tony
> 
> Steve wrote:
> >
> > Hi
> > I assume they are mobiles and as such you will have to watch
> > the tx pa or it will cook, rx wise no problem.
> > Dosn't matter if they were made for PS use they were, like
> > most mobiles only intended for limited tx times..
> >
> > Steve
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "briansoehl"  > >
> > To:  > >
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 5:23 PM
> > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] building a repeater out of 2 Kenwood TK-830G's
> >
> > > Has anyone built a repeater out of 2 TK-830G's? I have 2 and want to
> > > build a repeater to replace one. These are "high spec" radios designed
> > > for use in public safety and I feel they'd make a good repeater.
> > >
> > > Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> > >
> > > Brian
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  - - --
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: building a repeater out of 2 Kenwood TK-830G's

[wd8chl]

On 3/16/2010 4:38 PM, skipp025 wrote:
>
>> "briansoehl"  wrote:
>> Has anyone built a repeater out of 2 TK-830G's?  I have 2
>> and want to build a repeater to replace one.  These are
>> "high spec" radios designed for use in public safety and
>> I feel they'd make a good repeater.
>> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>> Brian
>
> The TK-830 is a very popular "big-knob" Public Safety Radio,
> the current replacement is a the TK-890.  They make killer
> repeater building blocks.
>
> Aside from what you'll read from other group members I would
> tell you there should be no problems running the radio full
> power all the time. If your repeater is a lock to talk box
> (IE using IRLP or Echo Link) with nearly constant duty cycle
> it would be advisable to use a modest blower (not a fan) to
> move air past the transmitter deck (rf package).


I absolutely would NOT run a x30 at 100W out continuous! Even with air 
on it.
The high power unit should not be run more then abt 30-40 W, and the low 
power unit should not be run at more than 20-25 for repeater use...

[Repeater-Builder] Re: building a repeater out of 2 Kenwood TK-830G's

[skipp025]

> "briansoehl"  wrote:
> Has anyone built a repeater out of 2 TK-830G's?  I have 2 
> and want to build a repeater to replace one.  These are 
> "high spec" radios designed for use in public safety and 
> I feel they'd make a good repeater.
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> Brian

The TK-830 is a very popular "big-knob" Public Safety Radio, 
the current replacement is a the TK-890.  They make killer 
repeater building blocks. 

Aside from what you'll read from other group members I would 
tell you there should be no problems running the radio full 
power all the time. If your repeater is a lock to talk box 
(IE using IRLP or Echo Link) with nearly constant duty cycle 
it would be advisable to use a modest blower (not a fan) to 
move air past the transmitter deck (rf package). 

I would be greatly surprised if you were able to kill a TK-830 
in anything but constant on (Tx) operation. The radio has self 
protection in the PA section.  I run a number of 630/690, 730/790 
and 830/890 RF Decks in full-power repeater operation and have 
never lost one even when they were very hot to the touch after 
a lot of constant key-down time. 

You need to pull TOS/COS/TOR/COR from the Receiver and figure 
out how you want to interface the transmit audio back into the 
transmit radio (rear panel jack or the front panel mic connector). 
If you want more information regarding that task... Email me direct 
for some ideas if you need that information.  Unless you want to 
run lock to talk constant transmit, the 830 should work just 
fine. Even in high power, high duty cycle operation you'd be 
hard pressed to hurt an 830 RF Deck with a modest blower pushing 
air past the chassis. 

s. 

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Building a Repeater VHF or UHF

[skipp025]

All a question of how much cooling is provided. From 
memory I believe the 840 also has temp shutdown 
protection.  Even with the added fans, 100% duty cycle 
is probably not possible. But if the radios do protect 
themselves, you probably wouldn't notice the (hopefully 
short) times where the Tx-Radio PA was operating at 
reduced power while it cooled back down. 

The Astron is another kettle of fish, depending on 
the model. The duty cycle of the smaller Astrons is 
not so great even with a Fan. 

I wouldn't say your repeater works as good or worked 
as good as $2k commercial repeater. The tk-840 receiver 
front end can't really compete with a true repeater 
spec receiver at a busy site/location. 

Not a free lunch... you just ordered off the menu 
and paid less a'la carte. 

cheers,
skipp 


> > Bob wrote:
> > My first repeater was two kenwood tk-840s uhf 25 
> > watt mobile radios,

> > Program in my repeater pair and turn on the power 
> > and kelp two fans running one on the tx radio and 
> > the other on the astrom power supply,

> > Ran the for over a year without any problems with 
> > radios or software.Only had $250 in it all.
> >
> > Not bad for a low cost repeater that work as good 
> > as a $2000 or $5000 repeater hummm.Bobby/N2BR
> >







 
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[Repeater-Builder] Re: Building a Repeater with a midland 13-509 and a cobra 200

[n7any_1]

Paul,
Thank you very much for the very enlighting information, it gives me 
a place to start.  I plan on trying to get the hardware/software 
working here at my house. If I'm sucessful I will try to coordinate a 
frequency pair through the local club. If all that works I'll start 
looking for an elevated site, since I'm in western washington It 
shouldn't be to hard to find a place that is fairly quiet. Again 
thanks for the Information.

Scott
N7ANY

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Paul Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> I haven't seen any replies to this yet so I'll take a stab 
> at explaining the basics.  (Hey guys, this sort of thing is 
> a FAQ, obviously... maybe we need a good basic "Repeater 
> Building 101" article for RBTIP?  If there is one, I 
> haven't found it.  I am aware of the "What's a Repeater" 
> article but that seems to be aimed more at repeater USERS 
> and is a bit too basic for the novice builder, IMHO.  Just 
> curious / asking)
> 
> Scott, I gather you are thinking of using both radios... one 
> as a receiver and one as a transmitter.  That will work, 
> but with those radios I think another option is to use just 
> one of them.  Take out the receiver and transmitter, mount 
> them in two separate metal boxes (for shielding).  
> Preferably all wires coming out of each box would by via 
> feedthrough capacitors to filter any stray RF (except the 
> coax of course).  I will leave it at that since I have not 
> built a repeater from those rigs myself.
> 
> You will probably want to add a tone decoder to the 
> receiver.  I know I'll open a can of worms with this, but I 
> pretty much subscribe to the belief that most, if not all 
> repeaters these days should use tone access... not just 
> carrier squelch.  There's just soo much RF out 
> there in and out of band.
> 
> You will need a repeater controller.  This could be very 
> basic, providing ID, timeout timer, and of course keying 
> the transmitter whenever the receiver goes active.  Or it 
> could have many other features like fancy courtesy beeps, 
> voice ID, DTMF control of repeater functions, etc. etc.  I 
> would suggest you check out the repeater controller 
> suppliers listed on this page to see what they have to 
> offer.  That may give you a better idea what you want...
> 
> http://www.repeater-builder.com/rbtip/supplyindex.html
> 
> The controller, at its most basic level, takes audio and 
> carrier / tone detect from the receiver and supplies audio 
> and PTT to the transmitter as needed.
> 
> If you want to run on a single antenna (repeater transmits 
> and receives on the same antenna) you will need a duplexer.  
> This is an expensive component.  Its function is to block 
> the transmitter carrier from entering the receiver and 
> either damaging it or overloading it so that it can't hear 
> what it is supposed to be hearing... and also to keep noise 
> generated by the transmitter (which spreads out around the 
> carrier and some of it will fall on the repeater receive 
> frequency) from degrading receive performance.
> 
> If you have enough space you can run on two antennas without 
> a duplexer.  Since I haven't built a 222 repeater this is a 
> guess, but I'll take a stab in the dark and say perhaps 50 
> feet of vertical separation between antennas or 200 feet 
> horizontal separation.  Perhaps someone with 222 experience 
> will offer to correct me on this.  Vertical separation is 
> more effective because most repeater / base station 
> antennas are designed to radiate best toward the horizon 
> and have nulls in the up / down directions.  Vertically 
> spaced antennas are mounted in each other's null, thus 
> increasing isolation between them... whereas horizontally 
> spaced antennas are in each other's maximum radiation lobe.  
> One difficulty with two antennas is trying to match receive 
> and transmit coverage... especially if one antenna is 
> mounted above the tower and one is side mounted.
> 
> Antennas can be chosen to suit your requirements (where do 
> you have to mount them and what coverage do you need?) but 
> there are a few things to watch out for.  It is desirable 
> to use an antenna that is rugged enough to survive 
> conditions at your repeater site.  Wind and ice factors 
> vary with location, tower height, height of hill / 
> mountain, etc.  Also be aware that some "ham grade" 
> antennas may be noisy in duplex service (single antenna 
> repeater).
> 
> All interconnecting cables on the repeater should be good 
> quality double shielded cable.  I like RG-214 but RG-400 is 
> suitable for short runs to interconnect receiver, 
> transmitter, duplexer, etc.  The feedline run to the 
> antenna(s) can be RG-214 if it is very short, otherwise 
> hardline.
> 
> It is important (especially for the single antenna repeater) 
> that all connections and hardware in and around the antenna 
> / tower be tight and not able to move... also free of rust.  
> Loose parts or rus

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Building a Repeater with a midland 13-509 and a cobra 200

[Bob Dengler]

At 8/23/2005 09:07 AM, you wrote:
>Some of us just bite our lip and stay quiet when talk
>about making a Midland 13-509 radio into a repeater.
>
>Most of us want to say you should try for a better
>receiver

Guess I'm not "most".

>  before the rock throwers tell you it will
>work fine at many a location.

This is a fluffy, cushy, cumulus cloud-like pillow with the words "go ahead 
& use the 13-509 RX" in elegant script writing on it.   :)

Unless you have many other radios at your site, the 509 will do fine as 
is.  If you are at a crowded site, just throw a pass cavity on the TX & RX 
(TX should have that no matter what it is or what band it's on in order to 
be a good neighbor).

>Yeah, a split 13-509 radio will work as a repeater...
>but you can easily do better. With the prices of
>surplus radio gear always going down... better doesn't
>have to be expensive.

But it would be more work & may require more expertise than Scott has 
available.  The 13-509 with pass cavity will be about the same cost-wise & 
much simpler.  OTOH, converting a Micor or G.E. to 220 would be far more 
educational, which is always a good thing for a prospective repeater owner.

Bob NO6B






 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Building a Repeater with a midland 13-509 and a cobra 200

[Paul Kelley]

Yeah, it may be a gamble depending on the site.  I have read 
the recent comments on that receiver and obviously it does 
work well at a number of sites.  Probably wouldn't hold up 
at some others...

I tend to forget about such things easily, as I am used to 
working with repeaters at incredibly quiet sites.  :)

Paul  N1BUG


On Tuesday 23 August 2005 12:07 pm, skipp025 wrote:
> Some of us just bite our lip and stay quiet when talk
> about making a Midland 13-509 radio into a repeater.
>
> Most of us want to say you should try for a better
> receiver before the rock throwers tell you it will
> work fine at many a location.
>
> Don't split the radio up... at least buy a receiver
> that will honestly hold up really well in many of
> the typical repeater mountain top applications.
>
> If you live in corn field Iowa with not much going
> on rf wise... then the 13-509 receiver is quite
> usable all things considered.
>
> Yeah, a split 13-509 radio will work as a repeater...
> but you can easily do better. With the prices of
> surplus radio gear always going down... better doesn't
> have to be expensive.
>
> cheers,
> skipp
> www.radiowrench.com/sonic





 
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[Repeater-Builder] Re: Building a Repeater with a midland 13-509 and a cobra 200

[skipp025]

Some of us just bite our lip and stay quiet when talk 
about making a Midland 13-509 radio into a repeater. 

Most of us want to say you should try for a better 
receiver before the rock throwers tell you it will 
work fine at many a location. 

Don't split the radio up... at least buy a receiver 
that will honestly hold up really well in many of 
the typical repeater mountain top applications.

If you live in corn field Iowa with not much going 
on rf wise... then the 13-509 receiver is quite 
usable all things considered. 

Yeah, a split 13-509 radio will work as a repeater... 
but you can easily do better. With the prices of 
surplus radio gear always going down... better doesn't 
have to be expensive. 

cheers,
skipp 
www.radiowrench.com/sonic 

> I haven't seen any replies to this yet so I'll take a stab 
> at explaining the basics.  (Hey guys, this sort of thing is 
> a FAQ, obviously... maybe we need a good basic "Repeater 
> Building 101" article for RBTIP?  If there is one, I 
> haven't found it.  I am aware of the "What's a Repeater" 
> article but that seems to be aimed more at repeater USERS 
> and is a bit too basic for the novice builder, IMHO.  Just 
> curious / asking)
> 






 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Building a repeater from Motorola VHF portable

[Mike Morris WA6ILQ]

At 08:26 AM 2/19/05, you wrote:

>Would a Motorola PAC RT work?

In a word, NO.

A PAC-RT is a unit designed to extend a mobile radio
to a handheld.  Picture a highway patrol officer that is
out writing a ticket - the handheld on his belt talks to
his patrol car and the PAC-RT there is hooked to his
regular mobile radio. Think of a simplex autopatch but
with an underdash or trunk mounted mobile radio in
place of the phone line.  It is a crossband* unit with
an output power of 1/10 watt ... some were 1/4 of a
watt, but not many.   There is no duplex ability at all.

* crossband: receiving and transmitting on a different band
The patrol car mobile and the officer's HT are on totally
different bands.  The PAC-RTs were built around an RF
package based on a low-end handheld, and models
were available in the 150mhz and 450 bands.

The basic idea of "extending" an existing mobile radio
into a mobile crossband repeater is still in wide use.
For example, here in California our highway patrol
mobiles run on hilltop repeaters with a 42-43mhz
output and a 39mhz input.  The officer's handhelds
are on high band.

Mike WA6ILQ 





 
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[Repeater-Builder] Re: Building a repeater from Motorola VHF portable

[Coy Hilton]

If my life was dependent on it and it was make shift or nothing I 
will go with make shift any day! 
I Have built emergency repeaters from HTs before. In an emergency 
You cant wait for the slow moving dog response of a chief, a city 
manager ect. to order you a repeater, and a manufacturer to build it 
and to get it shipped by turtle back express. You have to have 
something NOW! I was involved with public safety communications for 
over ten years. I've seen Police departments go totaly with out 
communications in a matter of minutes. It's a spooky situation to be 
in, not to mention how it feels for the Police Officer. In this day 
and time they can't be with out communications for more than a few 
seconds. Just think how much NEXTEL is going to pay to fix the 
situation that they're in with public safety communications. 
 

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Eric Lemmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> Denny,
> 
> The R1225 is just the full-duplex transceiver that is in a GR1225 
or
> RKR1225 repeater cabinet.  It is exactly the same size as a 
Maxtrac or
> GM300 dash-mount mobile radio.  Since it has a built-in 
controller, all
> you need is a duplexer and the connecting cables and you have a 
tactical
> repeater.  I have done this, and it works very well.  There are 
many
> issues to consider when creating a full-duplex repeater from two 
simplex
> handheld radios, and I don't think you should pursue such a 
solution-
> especially since this is intended to be used where people's lives 
may be
> at risk.  A PAC-RT is not appropriate for this application.
> 
> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
> 
> Denny wrote:
> > 
> > Thanks for the input. It is 150MHz and we would have a 5Mhz 
split.
> > What is the best process for shielding the two radios? Are there
> > cases out there or some foil type products?  What would happen 
if we
> > just connected to the two radios together and separated the 
antennas?
> > 
> > I looked at the R1225 and it is a little big but may work if need
> > be. Would a Motorola PAC RT work?
> > 
> > Denny
> > 
> > --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Eric Lemmon 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> > > Denny,
> > >
> > > The HT1000 is an excellent radio by itself, but its plastic 
case
> > offers
> > > no shielding whatsoever.  It is possible to construct a 
compact low
> > > power repeater with the HT1000 (or any two commercial quality
> > portable
> > > radios) if each radio is enclosed in a tightly-shielded box, 
with
> > all
> > > audio and control leads brought out through coaxial filter
> > capacitor
> > > terminals.  The antenna lead would need to be brought out 
through a
> > > separate bulkhead connector.
> > >
> > > Once you have a completely shielded transmitter and a 
completely
> > > shielded receiver, connect them to a compact (mobile) duplexer 
with
> > > double-shielded cable such as RG-400/U.  You will need a
> > rudimentary
> > > controller to handle the simple repeater functions.  I am 
assuming
> > that
> > > the pair you intend to use in the 150 MHz VHF band has a 5 MHz
> > split; if
> > > it is less, a mobile duplexer won't work.
> > >
> > > It would be a lot easier to use a 10 watt Motorola R1225 
repeater
> > > transceiver, instead of two separate radios.
> > >
> > > 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >







 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Building a repeater from Motorola VHF portable

[Maire Company]

If you don't need a lot of power look at the Kenwood TKR-740we use a lot 
of the tkr840 and love them.

John


- Original Message - 
From: "Denny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 11:26 AM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Building a repeater from Motorola VHF 
portable


>
>
>
> Thanks for the input. It is 150MHz and we would have a 5Mhz split.
> What is the best process for shielding the two radios? Are there
> cases out there or some foil type products?  What would happen if we
> just connected to the two radios together and separated the antennas?
>
> I looked at the R1225 and it is a little big but may work if need
> be. Would a Motorola PAC RT work?
>
> Denny
>
> --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Eric Lemmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>> Denny,
>>
>> The HT1000 is an excellent radio by itself, but its plastic case
> offers
>> no shielding whatsoever.  It is possible to construct a compact low
>> power repeater with the HT1000 (or any two commercial quality
> portable
>> radios) if each radio is enclosed in a tightly-shielded box, with
> all
>> audio and control leads brought out through coaxial filter
> capacitor
>> terminals.  The antenna lead would need to be brought out through a
>> separate bulkhead connector.
>>
>> Once you have a completely shielded transmitter and a completely
>> shielded receiver, connect them to a compact (mobile) duplexer with
>> double-shielded cable such as RG-400/U.  You will need a
> rudimentary
>> controller to handle the simple repeater functions.  I am assuming
> that
>> the pair you intend to use in the 150 MHz VHF band has a 5 MHz
> split; if
>> it is less, a mobile duplexer won't work.
>>
>> It would be a lot easier to use a 10 watt Motorola R1225 repeater
>> transceiver, instead of two separate radios.
>>
>> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Building a repeater from Motorola VHF portable

[Eric Lemmon]

Denny,

The R1225 is just the full-duplex transceiver that is in a GR1225 or
RKR1225 repeater cabinet.  It is exactly the same size as a Maxtrac or
GM300 dash-mount mobile radio.  Since it has a built-in controller, all
you need is a duplexer and the connecting cables and you have a tactical
repeater.  I have done this, and it works very well.  There are many
issues to consider when creating a full-duplex repeater from two simplex
handheld radios, and I don't think you should pursue such a solution-
especially since this is intended to be used where people's lives may be
at risk.  A PAC-RT is not appropriate for this application.

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY

Denny wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the input. It is 150MHz and we would have a 5Mhz split.
> What is the best process for shielding the two radios? Are there
> cases out there or some foil type products?  What would happen if we
> just connected to the two radios together and separated the antennas?
> 
> I looked at the R1225 and it is a little big but may work if need
> be. Would a Motorola PAC RT work?
> 
> Denny
> 
> --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Eric Lemmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > Denny,
> >
> > The HT1000 is an excellent radio by itself, but its plastic case
> offers
> > no shielding whatsoever.  It is possible to construct a compact low
> > power repeater with the HT1000 (or any two commercial quality
> portable
> > radios) if each radio is enclosed in a tightly-shielded box, with
> all
> > audio and control leads brought out through coaxial filter
> capacitor
> > terminals.  The antenna lead would need to be brought out through a
> > separate bulkhead connector.
> >
> > Once you have a completely shielded transmitter and a completely
> > shielded receiver, connect them to a compact (mobile) duplexer with
> > double-shielded cable such as RG-400/U.  You will need a
> rudimentary
> > controller to handle the simple repeater functions.  I am assuming
> that
> > the pair you intend to use in the 150 MHz VHF band has a 5 MHz
> split; if
> > it is less, a mobile duplexer won't work.
> >
> > It would be a lot easier to use a 10 watt Motorola R1225 repeater
> > transceiver, instead of two separate radios.
> >
> > 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
> >
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>





 
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[Repeater-Builder] Re: Building a repeater from Motorola VHF portable

[Denny]

Thanks for the input. It is 150MHz and we would have a 5Mhz split. 
What is the best process for shielding the two radios? Are there 
cases out there or some foil type products?  What would happen if we 
just connected to the two radios together and separated the antennas?

I looked at the R1225 and it is a little big but may work if need 
be. Would a Motorola PAC RT work? 

Denny

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Eric Lemmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> Denny,
> 
> The HT1000 is an excellent radio by itself, but its plastic case 
offers
> no shielding whatsoever.  It is possible to construct a compact low
> power repeater with the HT1000 (or any two commercial quality 
portable
> radios) if each radio is enclosed in a tightly-shielded box, with 
all
> audio and control leads brought out through coaxial filter 
capacitor
> terminals.  The antenna lead would need to be brought out through a
> separate bulkhead connector.
> 
> Once you have a completely shielded transmitter and a completely
> shielded receiver, connect them to a compact (mobile) duplexer with
> double-shielded cable such as RG-400/U.  You will need a 
rudimentary
> controller to handle the simple repeater functions.  I am assuming 
that
> the pair you intend to use in the 150 MHz VHF band has a 5 MHz 
split; if
> it is less, a mobile duplexer won't work.
> 
> It would be a lot easier to use a 10 watt Motorola R1225 repeater
> transceiver, instead of two separate radios.
> 
> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
> 











 
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[Repeater-Builder] Re: Building a repeater from Motorola VHF portable

[Laryn Lohman]

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Denny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  I am with a law enforcement agency and we have recently 
> killed our tactical repeater 


Was it attacking?  Was it self defense?











Laryn K8TVZ







 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: building a repeater

[Ken Arck]

At 02:24 PM 6/2/2004 -0400, you wrote:

>when I remove it to tune it do I need to supply power to it?
>or will that become evident when I get it out.

<---It's a passive device. In other words, it doesn't require any power.
Other than RF in :-)

Ken
--
President and CTO - Arcom Communications
Makers of state-of-the-art repeater controllers and accessories.
http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html
AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000
http://www.irlp.net




 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: building a repeater

[David]

when I remove it to tune it do I need to supply power to it?
or will that become evident when I get it out.

- Original Message - 
From: "Ken Arck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 2:07 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: building a repeater


> David.
>
> If you don't mind I'm taking this back to the mail list, as there may be
> others who can benefit from the info, ok?
>
> The first bandpass filter is located behind the exciter board. If you
> carefully remove the board, you'll see a piece of white teflon coax
leaving
> the board and plugging into a 3 stage filter assembly. The output of this
> filter then goes through another piece of teflon coax to the tripler
stage.
> In other words, forget about the tripler at this point.
>
> Since the filter in question simply unplugs from everything, I just pulled
> it completely out of the chassis and tuned it on the bench, using a
> tracking generator and, of course, 3 db pads on the input/output. It is
> almost impossible to tune it with it mounting in the chassis anyway.
>
> Since (as I remember) you don't have a tracking generator, you can use a
> low power radio and a wattmeter if you want. Just tune for maximum
> throughput and don't worry about using pads.
>
> Once retuned, drop it back in and you should be set.
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> At 01:55 PM 6/2/2004 -0400, you wrote:
> >>>>
>  followed the directions on the repeater builder webpage regarding  tuning
> the SECOND bandpass assembly and the circulator but still couldn't  get
> *any* power out of the PA. What I found I needed to also do was retune
the
> FIRST bandpass filter assembly - the one between the exciter and  the
> tripler stages. Once I did that, there was no problem at all in the  xmtr
> making power.
>
> okay in layman's terms please I have the exciter  tuned up I have the
> receiver tuned up but as you said no power. micor is going  from 468 to
> 443.400 so where in the cabinet is the next stage to  tune? is it behind
> the metal plate in the middle between  the exciter and the power control
as
> I have that section open but I see no  adjustments in there. I believe
what
> I am looking at is the low level tripler  amp. but I see no way to tune
it.
>
> --

> President and CTO - Arcom Communications
> Makers of state-of-the-art repeater controllers and accessories.
> http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html
> AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000
> http://www.irlp.net
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>





 
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[Repeater-Builder] Re: building a repeater

[Ken Arck]

David. 

If you don't mind I'm taking this back to the mail list, as there may be
others who can benefit from the info, ok?

The first bandpass filter is located behind the exciter board. If you
carefully remove the board, you'll see a piece of white teflon coax leaving
the board and plugging into a 3 stage filter assembly. The output of this
filter then goes through another piece of teflon coax to the tripler stage.
In other words, forget about the tripler at this point.

Since the filter in question simply unplugs from everything, I just pulled
it completely out of the chassis and tuned it on the bench, using a
tracking generator and, of course, 3 db pads on the input/output. It is
almost impossible to tune it with it mounting in the chassis anyway.

Since (as I remember) you don't have a tracking generator, you can use a
low power radio and a wattmeter if you want. Just tune for maximum
throughput and don't worry about using pads. 

Once retuned, drop it back in and you should be set.

Ken



At 01:55 PM 6/2/2004 -0400, you wrote: 

 followed the directions on the repeater builder webpage regarding  tuning
the SECOND bandpass assembly and the circulator but still couldn't  get
*any* power out of the PA. What I found I needed to also do was retune  the
FIRST bandpass filter assembly - the one between the exciter and  the
tripler stages. Once I did that, there was no problem at all in the  xmtr
making power.  

okay in layman's terms please I have the exciter  tuned up I have the
receiver tuned up but as you said no power. micor is going  from 468 to
443.400 so where in the cabinet is the next stage to  tune? is it behind
the metal plate in the middle between  the exciter and the power control as
I have that section open but I see no  adjustments in there. I believe what
I am looking at is the low level tripler  amp. but I see no way to tune it.  

--
President and CTO - Arcom Communications
Makers of state-of-the-art repeater controllers and accessories.
http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html
AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000
http://www.irlp.net




 
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