Re: [Re: [Repeater-Builder] Fuses on power cords]
The telling point it to measure the output power with none, then one, then two uses in line. I think you will be surprised at just how much power even .7 of a volt costs you. I remember seeing a Icom 22 go from 11w to 6w. This power loss is why many radios have a diode connected in reverse across the power leads - something designed to blow the fuse when the radio is hooked up backwards yet keeping full power out under normal conditions. Mike WA6ILQ At 01:05 AM 1/8/04 -0500, you wrote: Yes,0.7 volts per side,1.4 total. Some radios wont like it but most I have tried worked ok. 73,Lee - Original Message - From: JOHN MACKEY [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 1:02 AM Subject: Re: [Re: [Repeater-Builder] Fuses on power cords] That's a good idea that I have done also, but it is 1.4v drop, not .7v Lee Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The protection diodes should have blown the fuses,shouldnt have damaged the radios unless too big a fuse was used. An old trick I have used where the unknowing kept hooking things up reversed,was to use a diode bridge inline- then the polarity wouldnt matter. Worked well if you could live with the 0.7v drop,and its idiot proof ! Of course,fuse both leads... 73,Lee,N3APP Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Fuses on power cords
A competitor of ours wired a cement truck with a new Kenwood right to the battery with both leads (not fusing the negative lead). It lost the chassis ground, and the starter current went through the radio back to the battery. The radio was toast (literally). Joe M. I would agree that this is one of the main factors for fusing the ground. Remember you have a antenna that is grounded with a possibility of a ground difference. Use better than OEM fuse holders though, for I had a hum in my radio at full power that went away when I put real fuse holders on it. I think it is safe to say that no ground fuse is necessary in vehicles as long as it is the ONLY ground (not mounted to metal and no antenna connected) John - KI4AWK Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Fuses on power cords
I use the blade type fuse holders and solder them in. I experience much less voltage drop across them, resulting in more power out of the radio. Richard, N7TGB -Original Message- From: Rod Lane [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 10:07 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Fuses on power cords I think we all agree that there's nothing wrong with having the fuses there. With that said, and we want to install fuses in the grounds of existing radios without the fuses, is there a favorite fuse holder for in-line use? I've never seen a 3AG style in-line fuseholder like comes with most radios as a stand-alone purchasable item. It usually comes with a short (most times inadequate) length of wire out each end, already crimped to the buttons or clamps used for contact to the fuses. The only other kind of in-line fuseholders I've seen is the kind that use the new blade type automotive fuses. I picked up one that is designed to solderlessly connect to the wires in an insulation-displacement style, but it looked really weak. I wouldn't trust it with a couple of amps, let alone what a high power radio would need. 73 de N1FNE Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Fuses on power cords
My bet would be that the black wire fuse is there for positive ground vehicles, a vestige of times past. In that case, the black (negative) wire is hot, and you would need the fuse there. Bob U. AA6BT That is one reason, but the other is for the times you go directly to the battery with the negative lead. If the wire from the battery for the normal car's electrical system comes loose , the pathe for all the car's negative return is from the coax or frame of the radio to the black wire of the rig going to the battery. Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Fuses on power cords
The reason some manufacturers include fuses on the Negative lead is for those installers that run both Pos and Neg directly to the battery of a vehicle. This is not a smart move as normally you create a ground loop in the negative system of the vehicle and usually end up with Alternator Whine. It is always better to attach the negative lead at the closest grounding point to the mobile radio. The reason behind the extra fuse is in case the chassis ground of the vehicle fails and you try to start the engine, the 100's of amps of current drawn by the starter will blow the fuse rather than using the radio as a ground. Gregg R. Lengling, W9DHI, Retired Administrator http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org K2/100 S#3075 KX1 S# 57 Politics is the art of appearing candid and completely open, while concealing as much as possible. -States: The Bene Gesserit View -Original Message- From: Budd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 9:18 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Fuses on power cords I'm caught in the middle of a couple of feuding technical experts on a probably trivial issue. Some Mobile radio power cords are fused on only the positive line. Others are fused on both lines. One's logic is you only need one fuse. The other maintains their communications shop lost all the radios with only one fuse to a shorted power supply and none of the dual fused radios were effected. The one fuse expert says that is BS and the other is lying. What is the collective experience/knowledge on here for this topic? Thanks in advance for your thoughts 73 Budd Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Fuses on power cords
Budd, two fuses at the battery will pervert a car/truck fire if the ground wire comes in contact with hot wire of if the hot wire comes in contact with a ground. A diode will prevent frying the radio if the polarity gets switched. Al N8ARO I'm caught in the middle of a couple of feuding technical experts on a probably trivial issue. Some Mobile radio power cords are fused on only the positive line. Others are fused on both lines. One's logic is you only need one fuse. The other maintains their communications shop lost all the radios with only one fuse to a shorted power supply and none of the dual fused radios were effected. The one fuse expert says that is BS and the other is lying. What is the collective experience/knowledge on here for this topic? Thanks in advance for your thoughts 73 Budd Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Fuses on power cords
On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 12:56:37 -0500 Al Allum [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: .. two fuses at the battery will pervert a car/truck fire if ... Yup, **That** sounds about right. ;-)) Suppose that dual-fuse has some validity -- *IF* you're in the habit of running right to the DieHard (dash-mount radios, lots of vehicle plastic, etc) OTOH, consider that a Micor trunk-mount ground cable is maybe 6-feet ?? In a previous lifetime, an experience with an auto service place taught us to NOT attach directly to the battery -- Mr.Lame-Wrench often doesn't relate to replacing those add-ons properly, if at all.. (Hmm.. radio smells funny. Ooops ) R Scott Gilmore N8BQN Saginaw MI USA Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Give him the internet, and he'll leave you alone for weeks. Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Fuses on power cords
I'm caught in the middle of a couple of feuding technical experts on a probably trivial issue. Some Mobile radio power cords are fused on only the positive line. Others are fused on both lines. One's logic is you only need one fuse. The other maintains their communications shop lost all the radios with only one fuse to a shorted power supply and none of the dual fused radios were effected. The one fuse expert says that is BS and the other is lying. What is the collective experience/knowledge on here for this topic? Thanks in advance for your thoughts 73 Budd It all depends on the radio and how it is wired. Assumming a standard 12 volt negative ground car. If you go directly to the battery with both leads and you loose the normal car ground to the battery , then all the car's electrical requirements try to go through the radio's groundwire and can fry the rig if it is not fused in the negative lead. If you do not go directly to the battery with the radio's negative wire but hook it to the frame of the car then this will not hapen. Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Fuses on power cords
All depends on where you ground your radio. If your radio ground is the dashboard, and the ground braid from the engine block to the battery negative gets disconnected for some reason, (garage mechanics are good at this) your only vehicle accessory ground path can be the radio via the shield of the antenna coax. This can be known as *serious* smoke. If you choose the better method of grounding your radio, the black lead, you connect it to the negative lead of the battery preferably away from the battery. Other people will have their opinions, but these are mine ... and I have never had a problem with it. Do your installation properly, you won't have a problem. 73, Neil - WA6KLA Gregg Lengling wrote: The reason some manufacturers include fuses on the Negative lead is for those installers that run both Pos and Neg directly to the battery of a vehicle. This is not a smart move as normally you create a ground loop in the negative system of the vehicle and usually end up with Alternator Whine. It is always better to attach the negative lead at the closest grounding point to the mobile radio. The reason behind the extra fuse is in case the chassis ground of the vehicle fails and you try to start the engine, the 100's of amps of current drawn by the starter will blow the fuse rather than using the radio as a ground. Gregg R. Lengling, W9DHI, Retired Administrator http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org K2/100 S#3075 KX1 S# 57 Politics is the art of appearing candid and completely open, while concealing as much as possible. -States: The Bene Gesserit View -Original Message- From: Budd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 9:18 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Fuses on power cords I'm caught in the middle of a couple of feuding technical experts on a probably trivial issue. Some Mobile radio power cords are fused on only the positive line. Others are fused on both lines. One's logic is you only need one fuse. The other maintains their communications shop lost all the radios with only one fuse to a shorted power supply and none of the dual fused radios were effected. The one fuse expert says that is BS and the other is lying. What is the collective experience/knowledge on here for this topic? Thanks in advance for your thoughts 73 Budd Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Fuses on power cords
My bet would be that the black wire fuse is there for positive ground vehicles, a vestige of times past. In that case, the black (negative) wire is hot, and you would need the fuse there. Bob U. AA6BT At 07:20 PM 1/7/04, Ralph Mowery wrote: I'm caught in the middle of a couple of feuding technical experts on a probably trivial issue. Some Mobile radio power cords are fused on only the positive line. Others are fused on both lines. One's logic is you only need one fuse. The other maintains their communications shop lost all the radios with only one fuse to a shorted power supply and none of the dual fused radios were effected. The one fuse expert says that is BS and the other is lying. What is the collective experience/knowledge on here for this topic? Thanks in advance for your thoughts 73 Budd It all depends on the radio and how it is wired. Assumming a standard 12 volt negative ground car. If you go directly to the battery with both leads and you loose the normal car ground to the battery , then all the car's electrical requirements try to go through the radio's groundwire and can fry the rig if it is not fused in the negative lead. If you do not go directly to the battery with the radio's negative wire but hook it to the frame of the car then this will not hapen. Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Fuses on power cords
Nope. Kenwood is a big promoter of fusing the negative lead. The reasons have already been mentioned on the list. Most, if not all of their radios, do not support traditional positive ground. I say traditional because there are now positive to negative ground converters for use to install negative ground radios in positive ground vehicles. A competitor of ours wired a cement truck with a new Kenwood right to the battery with both leads (not fusing the negative lead). It lost the chassis ground, and the starter current went through the radio back to the battery. The radio was toast (literally). The customer went right back to us (they were talked into this trial of our competitor's service). I think the trial was a perfect demonstration, but I am biased. ;- Joe M. Bob Underwood wrote: My bet would be that the black wire fuse is there for positive ground vehicles, a vestige of times past. In that case, the black (negative) wire is hot, and you would need the fuse there. Bob U. AA6BT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Fuses on power cords
Hi budd, Another thought, when I was in Tucson, My brother in law was helping me jump start my Jeep one day, and before I could get my radios turned off, he attached the jumpers backwards. A fuse in the negative lead, might have saved the three radios he smoked that day! Bill WB0KSW - Original Message - From: Budd [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 7:18 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Fuses on power cords I'm caught in the middle of a couple of feuding technical experts on a probably trivial issue. Some Mobile radio power cords are fused on only the positive line. Others are fused on both lines. One's logic is you only need one fuse. The other maintains their communications shop lost all the radios with only one fuse to a shorted power supply and none of the dual fused radios were effected. The one fuse expert says that is BS and the other is lying. What is the collective experience/knowledge on here for this topic? Thanks in advance for your thoughts 73 Budd Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Fuses on power cords
The protection diodes should have blown the fuses,shouldnt have damaged the radios unless too big a fuse was used. An old trick I have used where the unknowing kept hooking things up reversed,was to use a diode bridge inline- then the polarity wouldnt matter. Worked well if you could live with the 0.7v drop,and its idiot proof ! Of course,fuse both leads... 73,Lee,N3APP - Original Message - From: bill Croghan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 12:01 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Fuses on power cords Hi budd, Another thought, when I was in Tucson, My brother in law was helping me jump start my Jeep one day, and before I could get my radios turned off, he attached the jumpers backwards. A fuse in the negative lead, might have saved the three radios he smoked that day! Bill WB0KSW - Original Message - From: Budd [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 7:18 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Fuses on power cords I'm caught in the middle of a couple of feuding technical experts on a probably trivial issue. Some Mobile radio power cords are fused on only the positive line. Others are fused on both lines. One's logic is you only need one fuse. The other maintains their communications shop lost all the radios with only one fuse to a shorted power supply and none of the dual fused radios were effected. The one fuse expert says that is BS and the other is lying. What is the collective experience/knowledge on here for this topic? Thanks in advance for your thoughts 73 Budd Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Re: [Repeater-Builder] Fuses on power cords]
Yes,0.7 volts per side,1.4 total. Some radios wont like it but most I have tried worked ok. 73,Lee - Original Message - From: JOHN MACKEY [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 1:02 AM Subject: Re: [Re: [Repeater-Builder] Fuses on power cords] That's a good idea that I have done also, but it is 1.4v drop, not .7v Lee Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The protection diodes should have blown the fuses,shouldnt have damaged the radios unless too big a fuse was used. An old trick I have used where the unknowing kept hooking things up reversed,was to use a diode bridge inline- then the polarity wouldnt matter. Worked well if you could live with the 0.7v drop,and its idiot proof ! Of course,fuse both leads... 73,Lee,N3APP Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
