Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Quantar and PL
Al Wolfe wrote: Eric, Thanks for your quick response. It's true that most of the ham grade portables have far too much tone deviation as delivered. The issue here is only with VX6's so far. Of the VX6's actually measured one was only 200 Hz deviation and all seemed low, that is, none were up to 500 Hz. Have not measured tone accuracy or distortion. Do those radios have a narrowband FM mode like the Kenwood F6? I bet they are running NB. I doubt if these radios have been modified as the owners aren't particularly technically inclined. One is blind. So the questions remain: Is the Quantar PL sensitivity adjustable? Is it a good thing to make it more sensitive? No-it's part and parcel in the microprocessor. How do I convince some users that there may be a problem with their radio? My radio worked before you guys messed with the repeater. Now it doesn't. So fix the repeater. is the attitude. I would hate to compromise an otherwise great repeater. Al, K9SI Don't touch the repeater. Tell them that it is correct and their radios are bad. If it worked on the old repeater, it means the old repeater wasn't right either, which leads back to why it was replaced. It was broke, and beyond economical repair. Yaesu has not been known for it's quality over the years. I've had several Yaesu's, and the only one that works well is the FT-101ZD HF rig. Oh, I had an FT-209RH that worked pretty well. All of the other VHF/UHF rigs have been flaky. -- Jim Barbour WD8CHL
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Quantar and PL
Jim wrote: Al Wolfe wrote: Eric, Thanks for your quick response. It's true that most of the ham grade portables have far too much tone deviation as delivered. The issue here is only with VX6's so far. Of the VX6's actually measured one was only 200 Hz deviation and all seemed low, that is, none were up to 500 Hz. Have not measured tone accuracy or distortion. Do those radios have a narrowband FM mode like the Kenwood F6? I bet they are running NB. You may have finally hit on something there, Jim. That seems pretty reasonable, considering the symptoms he's having. Nate WY0X
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Quantar and PL
Al, As far as I know the Quantar PL sensitivity is fixed. Do verify the programming of the repeater, but then verify the frequency and deviation of the user radios and fix the user radios; that's where the problem lies. Milt N3LTQ - Original Message - From: Al Wolfe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 9:09 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Quantar and PL Eric, Thanks for your quick response. It's true that most of the ham grade portables have far too much tone deviation as delivered. The issue here is only with VX6's so far. Of the VX6's actually measured one was only 200 Hz deviation and all seemed low, that is, none were up to 500 Hz. Have not measured tone accuracy or distortion. I doubt if these radios have been modified as the owners aren't particularly technically inclined. One is blind. So the questions remain: Is the Quantar PL sensitivity adjustable? Is it a good thing to make it more sensitive? How do I convince some users that there may be a problem with their radio? My radio worked before you guys messed with the repeater. Now it doesn't. So fix the repeater. is the attitude. I would hate to compromise an otherwise great repeater. Al, K9SI Re: Quantar and PL Posted by: Eric Lemmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wb6fly Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:53 pm ((PDT)) Al, Something doesn't sound right here... most Yaesu portables- including my own VX7- have far too much tone deviation as delivered. This is common with many Amateur-grade radios, and Alinco is the worst. The CTCSS deviation is usually not adjustable in the small portables, so the manufacturers apparently think that more is always better. I don't have experience with the VX6, but I would be surprised if the CTCSS deviation wasn't close to 900 Hz. Perhaps these users modified all of the radios to pad down the tone deviation, but I think that 500 Hz is ideal. I will check my Quantar service manuals at work for confirmation, but I suspect that the tone sensitivity is fixed. I wonder if there is another factor at work here, such as the purity of tone coming from the VX6 radios, and the tone accuracy. Does the Quantar work with other radio brands/models? Maybe it doesn't like raspy tones. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Al Wolfe Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 9:24 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Quantar and PL We recently replaced an aging UHF machine with a Quantar for a local ham repeater. Now it seems that some users are not able to key up the system. Turns out their radios (all VX6's) have fairly low tone deviation. Tests on the Quantar show that it needs at least 300 htz to key it. This seems reasonable to me but the users all say Well, my radio used to work with the old repeater. So fix the new one. Is there a way to increase the sensitivity to PL tones in a UHF Quantar? Is this desirable? Al, K9SI Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Quantar and PL
Drop in a Com Spec Board in the repeater and solve your problem. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Al Wolfe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 9:09 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Quantar and PL Eric, Thanks for your quick response. It's true that most of the ham grade portables have far too much tone deviation as delivered. The issue here is only with VX6's so far. Of the VX6's actually measured one was only 200 Hz deviation and all seemed low, that is, none were up to 500 Hz. Have not measured tone accuracy or distortion. I doubt if these radios have been modified as the owners aren't particularly technically inclined. One is blind. So the questions remain: Is the Quantar PL sensitivity adjustable? Is it a good thing to make it more sensitive? How do I convince some users that there may be a problem with their radio? My radio worked before you guys messed with the repeater. Now it doesn't. So fix the repeater. is the attitude. I would hate to compromise an otherwise great repeater. Al, K9SI Re: Quantar and PL Posted by: Eric Lemmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wb6fly Date: Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:53 pm ((PDT)) Al, Something doesn't sound right here... most Yaesu portables- including my own VX7- have far too much tone deviation as delivered. This is common with many Amateur-grade radios, and Alinco is the worst. The CTCSS deviation is usually not adjustable in the small portables, so the manufacturers apparently think that more is always better. I don't have experience with the VX6, but I would be surprised if the CTCSS deviation wasn't close to 900 Hz. Perhaps these users modified all of the radios to pad down the tone deviation, but I think that 500 Hz is ideal. I will check my Quantar service manuals at work for confirmation, but I suspect that the tone sensitivity is fixed. I wonder if there is another factor at work here, such as the purity of tone coming from the VX6 radios, and the tone accuracy. Does the Quantar work with other radio brands/models? Maybe it doesn't like raspy tones. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Al Wolfe Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 9:24 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Quantar and PL We recently replaced an aging UHF machine with a Quantar for a local ham repeater. Now it seems that some users are not able to key up the system. Turns out their radios (all VX6's) have fairly low tone deviation. Tests on the Quantar show that it needs at least 300 htz to key it. This seems reasonable to me but the users all say Well, my radio used to work with the old repeater. So fix the new one. Is there a way to increase the sensitivity to PL tones in a UHF Quantar? Is this desirable? Al, K9SI Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Quantar and PL
On Sep 26, 2007, at 7:09 AM, Al Wolfe wrote: So the questions remain: Is the Quantar PL sensitivity adjustable? Is it a good thing to make it more sensitive? How do I convince some users that there may be a problem with their radio? Not trying to sound sarcastic here at all, just serious... Since the Quantar and the VX-6 are both current product from both Motorola and Yaesu, it would seem that a discussion with both regarding the problem would be in order. (I know we're all used to using stuff that was end of life years before we put it on the air, but... this stuff is being sold today, and both companies should offer support. Whether or not they'll try to CHARGE you for that support in today's stupid support climate, is another story.) It's a pain, but I would start with a call to Motorola, possibly following up (and being prepared ahead of time to send) with screen- shots from some test gear of what's coming out of the Yaesu to both companies. -- Nate Duehr, WY0X [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Quantar and PL
I doubt you would get far with Motorola since the problem is that Yaesu is not using good engineering practice by not filtering the TX audio to remove CTCSS components. I would start with Yaesu asking them why not. Joe M. Nate Duehr wrote: On Sep 26, 2007, at 7:09 AM, Al Wolfe wrote: So the questions remain: Is the Quantar PL sensitivity adjustable? Is it a good thing to make it more sensitive? How do I convince some users that there may be a problem with their radio? Not trying to sound sarcastic here at all, just serious... Since the Quantar and the VX-6 are both current product from both Motorola and Yaesu, it would seem that a discussion with both regarding the problem would be in order. (I know we're all used to using stuff that was end of life years before we put it on the air, but... this stuff is being sold today, and both companies should offer support. Whether or not they'll try to CHARGE you for that support in today's stupid support climate, is another story.) It's a pain, but I would start with a call to Motorola, possibly following up (and being prepared ahead of time to send) with screen- shots from some test gear of what's coming out of the Yaesu to both companies. -- Nate Duehr, WY0X [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Quantar and PL
I agree with Joe and Nate. The Quantar shares audio and data between modules on a digital SPI bus, and there is no provision for adjusting the CTCSS sensitivity. Hello? This is Motorola's flagship station, and a high-tier one at that. Pardon my sarcasm, but we should not lower the bar to accommodate Amateur-grade equipment! Is the group a bunch of licensed Hams who believe that the Yaesu VX6 is a top-quality rig? Okay, okay, the sarcasm switch is now off. When the statement was made that the CTCSS deviation from the VX6 portables seemed to be very low, I hafta wonder if the bandwidth setting of the service monitor was not set to include the 5-300 Hz bandwidth, rather than just the voice 300-3000 Hz bandwidth. Hey, I've made this mistake myself, so I know it is possible. When my R2600D service monitor is set for 300-3000 Hz bandwidth (its default), CTCSS deviation looks very anemic. As well it should! I think the Yaesu VX6 radios are sending trashy CTCSS tones, and the Quantar is properly ignoring them. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MCH Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 11:26 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Quantar and PL I doubt you would get far with Motorola since the problem is that Yaesu is not using good engineering practice by not filtering the TX audio to remove CTCSS components. I would start with Yaesu asking them why not. Joe M. Nate Duehr wrote: On Sep 26, 2007, at 7:09 AM, Al Wolfe wrote: So the questions remain: Is the Quantar PL sensitivity adjustable? Is it a good thing to make it more sensitive? How do I convince some users that there may be a problem with their radio? Not trying to sound sarcastic here at all, just serious... Since the Quantar and the VX-6 are both current product from both Motorola and Yaesu, it would seem that a discussion with both regarding the problem would be in order. (I know we're all used to using stuff that was end of life years before we put it on the air, but... this stuff is being sold today, and both companies should offer support. Whether or not they'll try to CHARGE you for that support in today's stupid support climate, is another story.) It's a pain, but I would start with a call to Motorola, possibly following up (and being prepared ahead of time to send) with screen- shots from some test gear of what's coming out of the Yaesu to both companies. -- Nate Duehr, WY0X [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:nate%40natetech.com
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Quantar and PL
Tony L. wrote: I own a VX6 and regularly use a local Quantar repeater without any problems. To the best of my knowledge, the Quantar is stock. I also know of at least two people using VX-6's through a digital-capable (set in dual-mode analog and P25, they're of course using analog!) Quantar. Two Quantars in fact. Not my Quantar's though. Something odd is going on there. That's why I recommended contacting both Yaesu *and* Moto... something's fishy. And there's always other things to consider like... are the received signals being phase-shifted by something (lots of reflections/multipath) and it's confusing the Reverse Burst squelch-closure mechanism in the Quantar? I forget now, wasn't there some mention of voting and/or Astro modems or something? Maybe I'm mixing this conversation up with another about P25 I was having... I haven't ever set up one, but I bet that the RB feature can be turned off to find out if it's involved in the problem you're hearing. And if there's other stuff on the repeaters, make sure the repeaters are working properly all by their little selves without all that stuff attached and doing things. Anyway, that's more ideas that came to mind. No Quantar's here for me... just another @#^%^#$ unhappy MASTR II VHF PA to go deal with... (sigh). (Wish we could figure out what kills them. The thing is driving directly into a dual-stage isolator, it's definitely seeing a 50 ohm load and no reflected power...) I'm sure my GE friends would be appalled that I'd love to have a Quantar up there to try out... LOL! Nate WY0X
